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Hot Rod
Nov 19, 2016, 5:54 AM
this might have some interest for YVR particularly with regard to potential for long-term Qantas operation:-

US denies American-Qantas alliance expansion (http://news.airwise.com/story/us-to-block-american-qantas-alliance-expansion).

mezzanine
Nov 19, 2016, 6:12 AM
this might have some interest for YVR particularly with regard to potential for long-term Qantas operation:-

US denies American-Qantas alliance expansion (http://news.airwise.com/story/us-to-block-american-qantas-alliance-expansion).

or for a potential for YVR-MEL on AC :cheers:

With this increase in capacity, I'm really cheesed that AC and the Trudeau government are not willing to re-negotiate bilaterals with the UAE or Turkey and that Vancouver still doesn't have a direct flight to a Gulf destination or Istanbul, which is a few hours' flight time to most of the world's population. This is even considering:
The return of nonstop YVR-DEL
The state fuel subsidies that the ME3 get
The lack of O/D (or even business travel) traffic between Vancouver and the UAE--in aviation terms, Vancouver is the northern hemisphere's New Zealand; far away from everywhere else. At least SEA-DXB is justified because the flights ship cargo parts for a Boeing fleet based at Dubai International Airport.
How the ME3 massacred QF's longhaul market share
The political unrest in Turkey making a YVR-IST flight more of a can of worms
The AC/AS codeshare for YVR-SEA-DXB routings

I dunno. Look what YVR has versus SEA, from LeftCoast`s charts:


YVR:
http://i.imgur.com/olgrtjk.png

SEA:
http://i.imgur.com/Dcwn0Md.png

IMO Emirates is hoovering any current possibility for more direct transcontinental flights from SEA, especially with their 2 flights per day. If they were at YVR, it would hamper AC`s recent ability to build a hub at YVR which IMO is better for us and the local economy.

I`d be open to flights to IST on TK with cooperation with AC, but I see no will to move on it with the current situation in Turkey.

Gordon
Nov 19, 2016, 6:49 PM
I think YvR is better off with out Emirates because it has allowed AC to build its hub and the airport to attract a wide variety of carriers and move towards becoming a connecting hub.

CareerShow
Nov 19, 2016, 8:08 PM
Effective 29 October 2017 China airlines is beginning 5 weekly a359 XWB service. Nice to see another airline add the a350 to YVR.

excel
Nov 19, 2016, 9:32 PM
^Awesome.

sacrifice333
Nov 19, 2016, 10:32 PM
Effective 29 October 2017 China airlines is beginning 5 weekly a359 XWB service. Nice to see another airline add the a350 to YVR.

Awesome! Apologies... I missed the other A350 airline/route though???

POCO
Nov 19, 2016, 10:41 PM
Awesome! Apologies... I missed the other A350 airline/route though???

I think CX starts flying one around March.

twoNeurons
Nov 20, 2016, 5:04 AM
I just found out that AC56/57 (YYZ-DXB) has been upgauged from a 789 to a 77W through the end of February 2017.

With this increase in capacity, I'm really cheesed that AC and the Trudeau government are not willing to re-negotiate bilaterals with the UAE or Turkey and that Vancouver still doesn't have a direct flight to a Gulf destination or Istanbul, which is a few hours' flight time to most of the world's population. This is even considering:

I believe Emirates was offered slots into Vancouver, but they wanted unrestricted Canada slots... which translated means they wanted daily service out of YYZ.

If the bilaterals were renegotiated, you can bet that YVR would NOT be getting much Emirates love.

trofirhen
Nov 20, 2016, 2:41 PM
I believe Emirates was offered slots into Vancouver, but they wanted unrestricted Canada slots... which translated means they wanted daily service out of YYZ.

If the bilaterals were renegotiated, you can bet that YVR would NOT be getting much Emirates love.
Would QR, say 3x per week from YVR would be doable. Probably not, but with with EK great white sharks, and IST nixed due to political turmoil, I though moderate Qatar service might be OK.
As things stand, we'll be left with "The Big 4," LHR, AMS, FRA, and CDG. That's OK, but developing our European ME system a bit would be even better, IMO

casper
Nov 20, 2016, 5:02 PM
Would QR, say 3x per week from YVR would be doable. Probably not, but with with EK great white sharks, and IST nixed due to political turmoil, I though moderate Qatar service might be OK.
As things stand, we'll be left with "The Big 4," LHR, AMS, FRA, and CDG. That's OK, but developing our European ME system a bit would be even better, IMO

Sounds like TAP Air Portugal is looking at going to Toronto and possibly Montreal. That would make a great airline into Vancouver. They offer some interesting connections into North Africa and southern Europe from Lisbon. However its probably unlikely.

Even more unlikely would be to attract them to Vancouver as a stop over between Lisbon and Macao. The operate the Lisbon to Macca flight for a very short time many many years ago, however it flew the other direction over Russia.

trofirhen
Nov 20, 2016, 5:22 PM
Sounds like TAP Air Portugal is looking at going to Toronto and possibly Montreal. That would make a great airline into Vancouver. They offer some interesting connections into North Africa and southern Europe from Lisbon. However its probably unlikely.

Even more unlikely would be to attract them to Vancouver as a stop over between Lisbon and Macao. The operate the Lisbon to Macca flight for a very short time many many years ago, however it flew the other direction over Russia.
Agreed that TAP Air Portugal might make a great airline into Vancouver, but I doubt they'll ever be granted landing rights here, so you might as well forget it.
Sorry. I think we're stuck with what we have as Trans-Atlantic for another decade:(

casper
Nov 20, 2016, 5:30 PM
Agreed that TAP Air Portugal might make a great airline into Vancouver, but I doubt they'll ever be granted landing rights here, so you might as well forget it.
Sorry. I think we're stuck with what we have as Trans-Atlantic for another decade:(

I agree it is very unlikely we are even on their radar screen. They would be a great addition.

jlousa
Nov 20, 2016, 10:32 PM
As much as it would be nice for me to have TAP here, it isn't any agreement keeping them out, it's simply supply and demand. There is not the demand to warrant it unfortunately.

Cage
Nov 21, 2016, 3:04 AM
Would QR, say 3x per week from YVR would be doable. Probably not, but with with EK great white sharks, and IST nixed due to political turmoil, I though moderate Qatar service might be OK.
As things stand, we'll be left with "The Big 4," LHR, AMS, FRA, and CDG. That's OK, but developing our European ME system a bit would be even better, IMO

MAD might be a good candidate for addition to the list if euro hubs.

trofirhen
Nov 21, 2016, 4:08 AM
MAD might be a good candidate for addition to the list if euro hubs.
I've sometimes wondered about Madrid, too. But as jlousa said, there just wouldn't be the market. Vancouver is only 2.5million metro, and we're lucky to have what we have in Europe.
Still, given that we have so many Asian destinations, plus BNE, SYD, AKL, and others like SIN coming down the pipe, I am sure MAD would be feasible. But AC would never do it.
It would have to be up to IBERIA, and I wonder if they think YVR would provide enough J class. Maybe the route development people at YVR could negotiate it. They got us Air France.

casper
Nov 21, 2016, 7:06 AM
I've sometimes wondered about Madrid, too. But as jlousa said, there just wouldn't be the market. Vancouver is only 2.5million metro, and we're lucky to have what we have in Europe.
Still, given that we have so many Asian destinations, plus BNE, SYD, AKL, and others like SIN coming down the pipe, I am sure MAD would be feasible. But AC would never do it.
It would have to be up to IBERIA, and I wonder if they think YVR would provide enough J class. Maybe the route development people at YVR could negotiate it. They got us Air France.

IBERIA and BA are basically one company. While Air France and KLM are one company. If BA is sending the A380 and they think they could carry more traffic to-from Vancouver they have two choices either add another flight (using a rare slot at Heathrow) or talk nicely to their sister company in MAD.

trofirhen
Nov 21, 2016, 7:09 AM
IBERIA and BA are basically one company. While Air France and KLM are one company. If BA is sending the A380 and they think they could carry more traffic to-from Vancouver they have two choices either add another flight (using a rare slot at Heathrow) or talk nicely to their sister company in MAD.
That ... would be cool! Especially if they went Madrid year-round, even on an A332

flipv
Nov 21, 2016, 1:32 PM
That ... would be cool! Especially if they went Madrid year-round, even on an A332

Highly, highly unlikely. If BA needed more YVR capacity and had no appropriate LHR slot, they'd likely engage EI. Not IB which is a significant backtrack to MAD in terms of distance flown in total.

IB had YYZ/YUL plans as of two years ago. That has been shelved. YYZ-MAD is now daily year-round on AC 789/8 and that handles the demand well. Not that long ago this route was seasonal on an AC 763.

trofirhen
Nov 21, 2016, 3:56 PM
Highly, highly unlikely. If BA needed more YVR capacity and had no appropriate LHR slot, they'd likely engage EI. Not IB which is a significant backtrack to MAD in terms of distance flown in total.

IB had YYZ/YUL plans as of two years ago. That has been shelved. YYZ-MAD is now daily year-round on AC 789/8 and that handles the demand well. Not that long ago this route was seasonal on an AC 763.
I see. pfffffffffffft. Another dream turned to dust. I think Vancouver (not counting summer seasonal) will have to make do with the "Big 4" for a long time to come, when going Transatlantic.

Canadian74
Nov 21, 2016, 5:32 PM
I believe Emirates was offered slots into Vancouver, but they wanted unrestricted Canada slots... which translated means they wanted daily service out of YYZ.

If the bilaterals were renegotiated, you can bet that YVR would NOT be getting much Emirates love.

They were only offered 1 or 2 weekly additional flights (not sure if YVR or YYZ), which is not very viable, especially since it has to be divided between Emirates and Etihad. There might have been a seat cap also

Imagine 1 weekly YVR-DXB :haha:

twoNeurons
Nov 21, 2016, 6:58 PM
They were only offered 1 or 2 weekly additional flights (not sure if YVR or YYZ), which is not very viable, especially since it has to be divided between Emirates and Etihad. There might have been a seat cap also

Imagine 1 weekly YVR-DXB :haha:

Looks like UAE was offered up to 7 more slots into Canada... on condition that none of those were in Toronto. UAE wanted 7-day service to Toronto, Canada offered everything but YYZ.

At least according to this source:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/u-a-e-wanted-only-toronto-air-access-sources-1.939367#ixzz14l7LFfMU

If I recall at the time, the UAE was taking space out in newspapers saying UAE was prevented from flying to YVR before this news came out and the negotiations failed. I don't know what the UAE's position on this is, but I wonder why YYZ was so important to them? Is there something other than Toronto's larger population? I can't see it being proximity to US markets to funnel traffic through Toronto as I don't think they do much interlining.

Canadian74
Nov 21, 2016, 7:57 PM
Is there something other than Toronto's larger population?

A lot of connecting traffic to India and surrounding countries. Naturally they'd want to increase YYZ to daily or double daily before considering other cities
Emirates should have tried a codeshare agreement with AC like Etihad, maybe they would have had more success. AC can increase service upto 6 weekly and in addition to EK there could be 9 weekly YYZ-DXB

d_jeffrey
Nov 21, 2016, 8:01 PM
Looks like UAE was offered up to 7 more slots into Canada... on condition that none of those were in Toronto. UAE wanted 7-day service to Toronto, Canada offered everything but YYZ.

At least according to this source:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/u-a-e-wanted-only-toronto-air-access-sources-1.939367#ixzz14l7LFfMU

If I recall at the time, the UAE was taking space out in newspapers saying UAE was prevented from flying to YVR before this news came out and the negotiations failed. I don't know what the UAE's position on this is, but I wonder why YYZ was so important to them? Is there something other than Toronto's larger population? I can't see it being proximity to US markets to funnel traffic through Toronto as I don't think they do much interlining.

The article is from 2010...

Gordon
Nov 21, 2016, 10:13 PM
How does Seattle's european traffic com pare to YVr's?

Any news on YVR expansion plans?

trofirhen
Nov 21, 2016, 10:59 PM
How does Seattle's european traffic com pare to YVr's?*
Any news on YVR expansion plans?
For a city comparison of #of airlines and stats, go back a page to post #10502 by mezzanine.
*LEFTCOASTER posted an exhaustive comparison of the two cities some time back, but I couldn't find it.
Maybe he could direct you there. It's interesting.

mezzanine
Nov 22, 2016, 1:46 AM
Nice little analysis on AC's growth from YVR. (http://www.anna.aero/2016/11/21/air-canada-strongest-position-vancouver-ten-years-mainline-operation-grows-18-12-months/) We'll see what we get in 2017-18 with the fulfillment of the 787 orders and Rouge reaching its plane limit.

Vancouver Airport is Air Canada’s second largest operation after Toronto Pearson, with the British Columbia airport accommodating a little over 11% of the airline’s seat capacity in 2016. The Star Alliance member has heavily expanded from the airport in recent times, with its capacity growth this year being the highest recorded during the past decade. Taking just Air Canada’s mainline operation on its own, its seat capacity from Vancouver has risen by 18% during the past 12 months, while in the previous nine years the average yearly growth rate was -0.9%.

http://www.anna.aero/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/graph107-16.png

And here is their route map for s17, for now. No DEL as it is still offically seasonal.

http://www.anna.aero/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/acs17yvrmap.png

trofirhen
Nov 22, 2016, 3:17 AM
I noticed that, reading further into the link, that BOSTON is YVR's most requested unserved route into the USA.
All YVR-BOS pax currently have to change planes, but according to this, a nonstop route is "already very sustainable."

excel
Nov 22, 2016, 4:50 AM
Anyone know how the YVR-DEL route is doing so far?

Gordon
Nov 22, 2016, 3:11 PM
It looks like YVR will go with the center expansion plan, what is expected to happen with Gates E90-96.. it would be nice that area become more permanent.

thenoflyzone
Nov 22, 2016, 8:36 PM
Agreed that TAP Air Portugal might make a great airline into Vancouver, but I doubt they'll ever be granted landing rights here, so you might as well forget it.
Sorry. I think we're stuck with what we have as Trans-Atlantic for another decade:(


Careful the words you use.

Canada and the E.U have an open skies agreement. Any airline from Portugal can fly from LIS (or any other city in Portugal) to any city in Canada, as many times as they want.

There are no landing rights issues for TAP to serve YVR. They have simply identified YYZ and YUL as future destinations due to higher demand.

Portugal is not to be confused with Turkey and the U.A.E, which do have bilateral restrictions on their services to Canada.



Even more unlikely would be to attract them to Vancouver as a stop over between Lisbon and Macao. The operate the Lisbon to Macca flight for a very short time many many years ago, however it flew the other direction over Russia.

The Canada-E.U bilateral permits this, subject to approval from Macao, which might be a problem, since i don't believe Canada has a bilateral air agreement with Macao.

nname
Nov 22, 2016, 9:44 PM
TransAsia Airways (GE) in Taiwan had ceased operation yesterday. The airlines had ordered 4 A330neo and had identified YVR as one of their first long-haul route.

trofirhen
Nov 22, 2016, 10:20 PM
Careful the words you use.

Canada and the E.U have an open skies agreement. Any airline from Portugal can fly from LIS (or any other city in Portugal) to any city in Canada, as many times as they want.

There are no landing rights issues for TAP to serve YVR. They have simply identified YYZ and YUL as future destinations due to higher demand.

Portugal is not to be confused with Turkey and the U.A.E, which do have bilateral restrictions on their services to Canada.

The Canada-E.U bilateral permits this, subject to approval from China, of course.
:)Yes, of course; excuse me. As jlousa said, there simply isn't the market here; it's not a question landing righs or bilaterals, as you point out.
That being said, I have little optimism (not counting summer flights) that we'll get anything more year-round in Europe than what we have now, for a number of years.:(:(

s211
Nov 22, 2016, 11:25 PM
Sorry for the OT, but can anybody in the know share when Air Canada might reveal its Black Friday deals?

deasine
Nov 23, 2016, 11:08 AM
Sorry for the OT, but can anybody in the know share when Air Canada might reveal its Black Friday deals?

Just as an FYI legacy airline "Black Friday deals" are still simply based on market supply and demand. What airlines do if they participate is simply open "cheaper" fare buckets and create a promotion around it (and then say there's an X-discount compared to a more "expensive" fare bucket for the same product), but this can and will be done irrespective of the occasion.

One can make an educative guess on potential deals by looking at the loads of the flight.

casper
Nov 23, 2016, 11:54 AM
Sorry for the OT, but can anybody in the know share when Air Canada might reveal its Black Friday deals?

The Black Friday sales are up on Air Canada.

Both Air Canada and WestJet have been running North America promotions for the past few months. One one ends a few days later they have another one. Around 15% and you have to enter a Promo code to get the discount. The discount only applies if you enter the Promo code when searching.

The current one on Air Canada is: "NOVEMBER2016"

The have other codes posted on their web site for international routes they may be promoting.

Something it amazing how companies play games where they give discounts to people who want discounts and charge more to those who don't care or don't ask. Promo codes are how the two Canadian airlines look to be doing it just now.

s211
Nov 23, 2016, 4:26 PM
The Black Friday sales are up on Air Canada.

Both Air Canada and WestJet have been running North America promotions for the past few months. One one ends a few days later they have another one. Around 15% and you have to enter a Promo code to get the discount. The discount only applies if you enter the Promo code when searching.

The current one on Air Canada is: "NOVEMBER2016"

The have other codes posted on their web site for international routes they may be promoting.

Something it amazing how companies play games where they give discounts to people who want discounts and charge more to those who don't care or don't ask. Promo codes are how the two Canadian airlines look to be doing it just now.

Thanks for the info about the promo code. I couldn't find mention of it on the website. Very narrow window of dates available for the sale, but something's better than nothing. :)

trofirhen
Nov 23, 2016, 6:01 PM
Nice little analysis on AC's growth from YVR. (http://www.anna.aero/2016/11/21/air-canada-strongest-position-vancouver-ten-years-mainline-operation-grows-18-12-months/) We'll see what we get in 2017-18 with the fulfillment of the 787 orders and Rouge reaching its plane limit.


And here is their route map for s17, for now. No DEL as it is still offically seasonal.

http://www.anna.aero/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/acs17yvrmap.png
I wonder what this map would look like if all other airlines serving YVR (except seasonals), were added to the map - presumably in another color for all.
WS, LH, BA, QF, BR, PR, AA, MU, UA, DL, NZ, etc etc..... interesting to see. Be even better in 3 or 4 years! I wish someone would, or could, do that.

LeftCoaster
Nov 23, 2016, 6:12 PM
I wonder what this map would look like if all other airlines serving YVR (except seasonals), were added to the map - presumably in another color for all.
WS, LH, BA, QF, BR, PR, AA, MU, UA, DL, NZ, etc etc..... interesting to see. Be even better in 3 or 4 years! I wish someone would, or could, do that.

It's really not too tough:

http://i.imgur.com/4kr59wy.gif

or of course you could always just go to YVR's website:
http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/air-services/destinations-brochure_2016_05.pdf?la=en

Johnny Aussie
Nov 23, 2016, 7:18 PM
It's really not too tough:

http://i.imgur.com/4kr59wy.gif

or of course you could always just go to YVR's website:
http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/air-services/destinations-brochure_2016_05.pdf?la=en

Nice work Lefty!

Unfortunately though FCO is gone gone gone!

China is starting to look like one big mess on that map... impressive reach nonetheless.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 23, 2016, 7:20 PM
It's really not too tough:

or of course you could always just go to YVR's website:

Nice work Lefty!

Unfortunately though FCO is gone gone gone!

China is starting to look like one big mess on that map... impressive reach nonetheless.

Looks like the YVR website map will need some updating!

LeftCoaster
Nov 23, 2016, 7:27 PM
Ahh good catch, forgot to remove that one.

Exciting about Interjet, hope they look to add a different airport than just MEX, but would be a great to tail to see at YVR and YYZ either way.

LeftCoaster
Nov 23, 2016, 7:38 PM
According to Airliners.net, Vietnam Airlines had applied for service to LAX, SFO, SEA, DFW, and IAD - either direct or via TPE, KIX, or NGO - and seek beyond right to YVR, YYZ, and YUL.

Hmm... SGN-LAX-YVR or SGN-SFO-YVR coming? (I can't see any other combination works for YVR)

Beyond rights to YVR make little sense, it's a complete backtrack from any destination in the US.

What would make complete sense would be a routing like SGN-YVR-DAL. it's literally 26 NM further than flying direct.

On the other hand SGN-LAX-YVR is nearly 2,000 nautical miles further than flying SGN-YVR direct so I don't see how it would be at all competitive given the amount of one stop service from YVR one could take to SGN that is much more direct.

LeftCoaster
Nov 23, 2016, 7:42 PM
Highly, highly unlikely. If BA needed more YVR capacity and had no appropriate LHR slot, they'd likely engage EI. Not IB which is a significant backtrack to MAD in terms of distance flown in total.

Agreed, and with EI looking to possibly order A320LRs that could free up some longer range aircraft currently serving YYZ or BOS to put on a YVR route.

I doubt YVR will see any Spanish/Portuguese service in the near future. Only slight chance would be a seasonal BCN on Norwegian, but that's just a shot in the dark.

LeftCoaster
Nov 23, 2016, 7:47 PM
How does Seattle's european traffic com pare to YVr's?

Not sure of annual but summer peak it's about half.

YVR weekly seats: 30,850
SEA weekly seats: 17,650

Gordon
Nov 23, 2016, 7:50 PM
Thanks for the info.

trofirhen
Nov 23, 2016, 9:04 PM
Not sure of annual but summer peak it's about half.

YVR weekly seats: 30,850
SEA weekly seats: 17,650
Is Seattle's lower Europax #s due to EK siphoning part of it off (for transfer purposes) or not?

sacrifice333
Nov 24, 2016, 12:50 AM
Is Seattle's lower Europax #s due to EK siphoning part of it off (for transfer purposes) or not?

Not the expert, but most US Carriers operate with multiple hubs with most of their European departures exiting the US closer to the East Coast.

LeftCoaster
Nov 24, 2016, 1:13 AM
Well that's no different than Canada with the bulk if Europe flying occurring from YYZ & YUL.

trofirhen
Nov 24, 2016, 7:41 PM
Well that's no different than Canada with the bulk if Europe flying occurring from YYZ & YUL.
So true!! Do you think that -- even if only by two, (maybe more), cities-- YVR European year-round destination roster will increase any within the next 5 to 10 years?
The stats seem to warrant it, even with the normal summer travel peak. Euro- pax have leaped forward boomingly in the last two years, it seems.

LeftCoaster
Nov 24, 2016, 10:21 PM
10 years? Damn the weather guy can barely even get a three day forecast right.

Who knows?

As far as I can tell we're already looking at a 14% increase in capacity to Europe/London for summer 2017 so I don't really know how much more one could expect.

connect2source
Nov 25, 2016, 12:35 AM
A UA A319 and a WS 737-800 clipped wings at YVR today, both planes were empty of passengers at the time. The UA plane was being towed into gate 77 when the incident happened.

The UA flight was headed to SFO and the WS to PSP.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/planes-clip-wings-on-vancouver-airport-tarmac-leaving-both-unable-to-fly-1.3865810

Johnny Aussie
Nov 25, 2016, 2:31 AM
10 years? Damn the weather guy can barely even get a three day forecast right.

Who knows?

As far as I can tell we're already looking at a 14% increase in capacity to Europe/London for summer 2017 so I don't really know how much more one could expect.

We are lucky to get an accurate 3 hour forecast here in MEL forget three days.

Lefty the voice of reason strikes again!

Looking at Europe 2017 again... at least 10 more weekly frequencies on AC (FRA and LGW). FCO capacity on TS has been shifted to MAN... and all three weekly CDG flights will now be nonstop... it does look like Condor is back to five weekly to FRA... it was a case of add then pull. Monday - Friday schedule now.
Capacity is being added where the markets are.

London (LHR and LGW) will be even a bigger bloodbath now with 5 carriers in the market and 37 weekly flights... FRA will be a distant number two with 3 carriers and 19 weekly flights.

The only decreases in capacity (other than the dropping of FCO) appears to be on LH's MUC daily flight going back to a daily 333 (from a mix of 346/333) Perhaps the added AC FRA comes into play here.. And KLM's daily flight reverting back to a 333 from a 772... Not a huge drop by any means... who knows... who knows!

EDIT: STOP THE PRESSES...

After I posted the above I thought I would have a look at AC schedules next summer and the second daily LHR is GONE!

So back to one daily HD 77W....

LHR/LGW still 5 carriers but now 30 weekly....

Last summer the second flight was a 788 so it's really a transfer of the capacity to FRA... I think Cage pondered that possibility a few weeks back after FRA was announced.

trofirhen
Nov 25, 2016, 7:17 AM
I wonder if BA to London will use the Airbus 380 next summer.
Also, to clarify, is that 30 flights a week to Heathrow and Gatwick, or just Heathrow? Seems as if it would be both, from the way Johnny stated it it.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 25, 2016, 8:26 AM
Also, to clarify, is that 30 flights a week to Heathrow and Gatwick, or just Heathrow? Seems as if it would be both, from the way Johnny stated it it.

Oops. Yup I meant LHR and LGW. Fixed.

nname
Nov 25, 2016, 9:32 AM
So AC would be giving up that slot for LHR next summer?

teriyaki
Nov 25, 2016, 5:23 PM
I wonder if BA to London will use the Airbus 380 next summer.
Also, to clarify, is that 30 flights a week to Heathrow and Gatwick, or just Heathrow? Seems as if it would be both, from the way Johnny stated it it.

BA already has the A380 for scheduled operations loaded into the calendar for S17 YVR route. Albeit, it should be starting later in the year compared to this year.

LeftCoaster
Nov 25, 2016, 6:57 PM
EDIT: STOP THE PRESSES...

After I posted the above I thought I would have a look at AC schedules next summer and the second daily LHR is GONE!

So back to one daily HD 77W....

LHR/LGW still 5 carriers but now 30 weekly....

Last summer the second flight was a 788 so it's really a transfer of the capacity to FRA... I think Cage pondered that possibility a few weeks back after FRA was announced.

Something seems off about that.

First of all that represents nearly an 8% drop in LON flying to last year. I get there has been capacity added to Frankfurt but that seems too large of a drop to a longstanding market like London.

Secondly, and more importantly, what does that mean for ACs LHR slot? Those things are worth more than the airplanes flying them so I doubt that AC would just lose it, and from what I understood the timing only works for western airports. Doubtful it's going to YYC given their current situation, so that leaves me to believe there is still some scheduling to go.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 25, 2016, 9:08 PM
:Phttps://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/2016-a-198

Colourful tail anyone ;)

Planned start date is 30 June 2017. Daily flights.

Another daily flight to an exisiting destination... even though it's a new airline... yawn! :P

SpongeG
Nov 25, 2016, 9:17 PM
Not the expert, but most US Carriers operate with multiple hubs with most of their European departures exiting the US closer to the East Coast.

Yea I don't think they have many direct flights

i flew seattle to london with Delta and we had to fly to Atlanta first.

I've looked at some other flights for options before and there was a seattle Madrid flight but it stopped in chicago where you switched to an IBERIA airplane even though it said it was an IBERIA flight from seattle but it was a partner airline for that first portion

whatnext
Nov 25, 2016, 9:21 PM
I noticed that, reading further into the link, that BOSTON is YVR's most requested unserved route into the USA.
All YVR-BOS pax currently have to change planes, but according to this, a nonstop route is "already very sustainable."

CP used to fly YVR-BOS.

nname
Nov 25, 2016, 10:28 PM
:Phttps://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/2016-a-198

Colourful tail anyone ;)

Planned start date is 30 June 2017. Daily flights.

Another daily flight to an exisiting destination... even though it's a new airline... yawn! :P

Now the second airlines from HNA group is going to fly to Vancouver... wonder if Hainan or Tianjin will come eventually...

So with this and the reduction of London, does Hong Kong now the top international destination from YVR by seats?

SpongeG
Nov 25, 2016, 11:04 PM
one of the new big screens in the domestic C gate - i don't know how long they have been in there but they really add a lot of animation to the area

this one is just running an Audi commercial

https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5648/30432748333_1722899301_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/NneMPt)received_10157677768865004 (https://flic.kr/p/NneMPt) by snub_you (https://www.flickr.com/photos/spongeg/), on Flickr

LeftCoaster
Nov 25, 2016, 11:07 PM
:Phttps://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/2016-a-198

Colourful tail anyone ;)

Planned start date is 30 June 2017. Daily flights.

Another daily flight to an exisiting destination... even though it's a new airline... yawn! :P

Amazing news!

It's honestly astounding how airlines keep announcing new routes to Vancouver that are daily! No edging in with 3 day service, just taking the plunge on a new daily. :cheers:

I'm assuming this will be another A350-900 route for YVR, Does that make 2 or 3 now with no other service in Canada?

So with this and the reduction of London, does Hong Kong now the top international destination from YVR by seats?

Nearly, London just barely edges it out:

http://i.imgur.com/h6j85ll.png

That said with the seasonal reductions London sees that I don't think Hong Kong sees, it might be smaller on an annual basis.

Also still not convinced AC is just ditching its slot at LHR, it just makes no sense, unless they plan on selling it.

LeftCoaster
Nov 25, 2016, 11:25 PM
http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1287667819_A350-900_Hong_Kong_Airlines.jpg
http://www.airbus.com/galleries/photo-gallery/dg/idp/49060-a350-900-hong-kong-airlines/?return_id=3170

:cheers:

connect2source
Nov 25, 2016, 11:34 PM
Nearly, London just barely edges it out:

http://i.imgur.com/h6j85ll.png

That said with the seasonal reductions London sees that I don't think Hong Kong sees, it might be smaller on an annual basis.

Also still not convinced AC is just ditching its slot at LHR, it just makes no sense, unless they plan on selling it.

Where is Frankfurt on that list, I assume it would beat out AMS?

CareerShow
Nov 25, 2016, 11:39 PM
Is Cathay's 3rd daily 3 weekly flight on the a350 year round? If so 31 weekly flights year round seems like a lot of capacity on this route. Also does anyone know why Cathay continues their YVR JFK route? Is it successful passenger wise or is it related to the cargo on the route? I remember reading somewhere as well that the HKG - YVR - JFK flights are operated by a 4 class 77w while the HKG - YVR flights are no first and just business.

LeftCoaster
Nov 25, 2016, 11:47 PM
Where is Frankfurt on that list, I assume it would beat out AMS?

Right you are, looks like it got neglected entirely. Here's the list with Frankfurt added. It drops Mexico City & Sydney off the list.

http://i.imgur.com/5RRV3v4.png

teriyaki
Nov 25, 2016, 11:55 PM
Is Cathay's 3rd daily 3 weekly flight on the a350 year round? If so 31 weekly flights year round seems like a lot of capacity on this route. Also does anyone know why Cathay continues their YVR JFK route? Is it successful passenger wise or is it related to the cargo on the route? I remember reading somewhere as well that the HKG - YVR - JFK flights are operated by a 4 class 77w while the HKG - YVR flights are no first and just business.

Anecdotal evidence, but from the 4 times i've been on the YVR-JFK route on CX in the last 2 years, its never been a light load. 2 of these trips have been in Business and those times have been 100% load factor in J class. These were all taken at different times of the year. In-fact, trying to book an award flight on this route usually requires booking a few months in advance. I'm sure it does reasonably well. I hope it never goes away, its easily the best intra-continent flight we have here in North America.

Very interesting to see Hong Kong Airlines gunning for the YVR market as well. It will be very interesting to see how the market plays out next year. Tonnes of one-stop options via places like TPE/NRT/HND/PVG/PEK if journeying to HKG. The pricing strategy will be important for Hong Kong airlines to compete. The top-end is dominated of course by CX with their superior product all around. The bottom-end sees a huge variety of carrier fighting for connecting passengers, with mostly China Eastern winning in terms of pure price point. If they price similarly to MU/CA, and offer direct service. I think they'll have a successful operation.

Klazu
Nov 25, 2016, 11:59 PM
Hong Kong Airlines is a great addition and our 3rd A350 connection! Wow, they are really adding up quickly. :)

Hopefully We will see them offering their famous ridiculously cheap business class seats on this route as well!

trofirhen
Nov 26, 2016, 12:03 AM
CP used to fly YVR-BOS.
If that route pays, I hope someone (like AC, cough, cough) picks it up again. It seems like a route where there would be a fair % of J class.

SpongeG
Nov 26, 2016, 12:08 AM
i saw this plane on wednesday at YVR, never got to take a pic of it myself - also saw it in calgary on sunday, special livery for Air Canada

from flickr
https://c2.staticflickr.com/7/6003/5865239721_4defeb4f63_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/9WhTqM)Air Canada (Trans Canada Airlines) | Airbus A319-114 | C-FZUH (https://flic.kr/p/9WhTqM) by Patrick Lundgren (https://www.flickr.com/photos/leftdef11bcferries/), on Flickr

connect2source
Nov 26, 2016, 12:16 AM
i saw this plane on wednesday at YVR, never got to take a pic of it myself - also saw it in calgary on sunday, special livery for Air Canada

from flickr
https://c2.staticflickr.com/7/6003/5865239721_4defeb4f63_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/9WhTqM)Air Canada (Trans Canada Airlines) | Airbus A319-114 | C-FZUH (https://flic.kr/p/9WhTqM) by Patrick Lundgren (https://www.flickr.com/photos/leftdef11bcferries/), on Flickr

Wow nice catch!! That TCA retro A319 has been around for a while, I rode on it YYC - YVR in 2001. Love the look of it!!

Johnny Aussie
Nov 26, 2016, 1:30 AM
Hong Kong Airlines is a great addition and our 3rd A350 connection! Wow, they are really adding up quickly. :)

Hopefully We will see them offering their famous ridiculously cheap business class seats on this route as well!

Yes another great addition. Will see what the timing is when the official announcement is made.

This one was hard to keep a secret as scrolling back a few had figured it out :)

As for Hainan... still no indication what they will be doing with their remaining frequencies.

There are still some other things in the works but this was the most concrete one so far.

As for what AC will do with its LHR slot?! Who knows!!

Looks like CZ will be announcing MEX soon as well for an April 2017 start (a bit delayed) 3 weekly 788 flights. CZ has loaded 787s back in the system for the daily YVR-CAN flight but they usually revert back to a 77W... there has been a pattern developing now that they have flown here long enough.

Also waiting to see when Interjet announces there flights....

POCO
Nov 26, 2016, 2:42 AM
:Phttps://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/2016-a-198

Colourful tail anyone ;)

Planned start date is 30 June 2017. Daily flights.

Another daily flight to an exisiting destination... even though it's a new airline... yawn! :P

Awesome! As someone planning to take that trip next year (outbound in February back in August) I happily welcome more competition on that route. Although I may pay a small premium to fly CX's A350...

Edit: didn't know that Hong Kong Airlines had A350's on the way. I'll be really interested to see the pricing seeing as AC and CX basically price match each other and they get quite high especially in the summer.

mezzanine
Nov 26, 2016, 3:00 AM
This is odd - on flyertalk reports of a partnership agreement between CX and AC for ticketing direct to thailand and vietnam (https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/354-a-2016) and philippines and malaysia. (https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/353-a-2016) all this a day before the hong kong airlines announcement.

-i wonder if this is just interlining or a fuller codeshare. Would star gold benefits carry over to the CX connections booked with AC?
-AC to BKK and other points in SE asia via CX? would there be anymore route development on AC's part to SE asia?

CX has been in financial trouble over the past several months - I wonder how this would work out for them...

Gordon
Nov 26, 2016, 3:13 AM
Are aC & CX not in competing alliances?

trofirhen
Nov 26, 2016, 3:46 AM
Yes another great addition. Will see what the timing is when the official announcement is made.

................
Also waiting to see when Interjet announces there flights....
Are you referring to YVR-MTY and GDL? Geez, that'd be a fantastic addition !!

Speedbird1
Nov 26, 2016, 5:25 AM
This is odd - on flyertalk reports of a partnership agreement between CX and AC for ticketing direct to thailand and vietnam (https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/354-a-2016) and philippines and malaysia. (https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/353-a-2016) all this a day before the hong kong airlines announcement.

-i wonder if this is just interlining or a fuller codeshare. Would star gold benefits carry over to the CX connections booked with AC?
-AC to BKK and other points in SE asia via CX? would there be anymore route development on AC's part to SE asia?

CX has been in financial trouble over the past several months - I wonder how this would work out for them...

They've been doing this for a while for flights to India.. In the past AC connecting to CX was usually one of the cheapest options available to DEL (as well as to BOM and maybe others) on the Air Canada website. Not sure if that's still the case.

Also, happy to see HX pan out!.. although I'm much more excited about having an additional option to get to MEX with CZ. One potential issue with HX is that it appears that HX is currently scheduled to receive just 1 A359 (B-LGA) sometime around May or June. AerCap may have some unclaimed aircraft available still, but this may be HX requesting more than what they plan to operate.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 26, 2016, 8:10 AM
One potential issue with HX is that it appears that HX is currently scheduled to receive just 1 A359 (B-LGA) sometime around May or June. AerCap may have some unclaimed aircraft available still, but this may be HX requesting more than what they plan to operate.

Apparently they have something in the works / figured out.

zahav
Nov 26, 2016, 9:08 AM
I wonder if AC is considering making YVR-DEL year round. I know it's a very new route and relatively untested for a non-stop, but I wonder if that's where they might assign at least part of the 787 capacity from LHR? Note, AC is also dropping it's 2nd daily Paris flight, also a 787. So there is probably some new routes (or extensions of existing seasonal routes like DEL) in the process. Unless they just plan on sticking these aircraft on something boring like YYZ-YVR haha...

On another topic, has it been discussed if YVR ever considered building a 2nd airport hotel? I'm thinking somewhere like the economy lot just west of the parkade. Keep the economy lot on ground floor and maybe add a 2nd floor, and then hotel on top? I think the Fairmont is amazing, but it's $$ and higher end. I'm thinking a more mid-market hotel with reasonable rates. It would really have a big market I'd think. It could be connected to the parkade, and even a new overheard walkway directly across to the US terminal (not necessary if there's a good connectrion to the parkade direct through to the terminal entrance/skytrain). Even YYC now has two on-site airport hotels. The airspace above the Economy lot just seems like it could get good use from something like this

nname
Nov 26, 2016, 11:06 AM
Looks like CZ will be announcing MEX soon as well for an April 2017 start (a bit delayed) 3 weekly 788 flights. CZ has loaded 787s back in the system for the daily YVR-CAN flight but they usually revert back to a 77W... there has been a pattern developing now that they have flown here long enough.

Also waiting to see when Interjet announces there flights....

3x weekly MEX and daily YVR...? where does that extra weekly come from? CA? HU?

thenoflyzone
Nov 26, 2016, 9:28 PM
Read on airliners that Rouge will be starting summer seasonal YVR-CDG in S17. Don't know how accurate the source is.

trofirhen
Nov 27, 2016, 4:27 AM
Read on airliners that Rouge will be starting summer seasonal YVR-CDG in S17. Don't know how accurate the source is.
So AC is timourously getting into the YVR - CDG scene. I'd rather see Westjet into Orly. (smaller, more accessible, and a bit less vast and sterile)

Johnny Aussie
Nov 27, 2016, 8:28 PM
Read on airliners that Rouge will be starting summer seasonal YVR-CDG in S17. Don't know how accurate the source is.

Just read that. Sounds speculative and no source of the speculation. I've read a lot about MAN too. Anyway still time for route finalisation for next summer but normally new services are announced prior to the end of the year for summer services.

nname
Nov 28, 2016, 12:19 AM
MU just announced that they have plan to start XIY-YVR in 2017. Didn't mention whether its one-stop or non-stop, and not sure where the extra frequency come from either...

excel
Nov 28, 2016, 12:30 AM
Couple pictures of our beautiful airport among my arrival from PHX yesterday.

https://s16.postimg.org/mw12cqomt/15240207_660715494985_1938076622_n.jpg

https://s16.postimg.org/rvyikou9h/15240320_660715489995_1595614127_n.jpg

https://s16.postimg.org/o5yvrsiet/15208051_660715475025_1673019204_n.jpg

https://s16.postimg.org/hi2a56ywl/15218729_660715485005_536323649_n.jpg

https://s16.postimg.org/h6ktsfigl/15226608_660715480015_135357533_n.jpg

https://s16.postimg.org/7jhbipph1/15218619_660715470035_1581037396_n.jpg

nname
Nov 28, 2016, 8:05 AM
Hong Kong Airlines schedule eff. June 30th:

HX080 HKG1230 – 1010YVR 332 D
HX081 YVR1210 – 1650+1HKG 332 D

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/270109/hong-kong-airlines-files-vancouver-schedule-in-s17/

The A330 have the range for this??

nname
Nov 28, 2016, 8:07 AM
Time change for Capital Airlines eff Dec 30th

Hangzhou – Qingdao – Vancouver
Departure time will move 3-4 hours earlier than previously planned schedule

JD471 HGH1115 – 1305TAO1505 – 1010YVR 330 357
JD472 YVR1210 – 1555+1TAO1755+1 – 1940+1HGH 330 357

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/270098/capital-airlines-revises-madrid-vancouver-schedule-from-dec-2016/

Notice the arrival and departure time at YVR...

Johnny Aussie
Nov 28, 2016, 11:21 AM
Hong Kong Airlines schedule eff. June 30th:

HX080 HKG1230 – 1010YVR 332 D
HX081 YVR1210 – 1650+1HKG 332 D

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/270109/hong-kong-airlines-files-vancouver-schedule-in-s17/

The A330 have the range for this??

Yes, it does. DL flies their SEA-HKG route with an A332 as well.

They really wanted to get on this route ASAP and they don't want to wait u til the A350 arrives and is certified.

nname
Nov 28, 2016, 4:43 PM
Their plan also have London, New York for 2017, LAX, SFO for 2018, CDG, MEL, SYD for 2019, and MXP, CHC, ORD for 2020... A350 for YVR may have to wait for a while since they pretty much have to use it for New York and maybe LAX/SFO...

Gordon
Nov 28, 2016, 9:00 PM
Theses 2 departures will certainly make the asian departure block extremely busy

nname
Nov 28, 2016, 10:44 PM
Theses 2 departures will certainly make the asian departure block extremely busy

Those, and then add in FRA, TPE, NGO next summer... all depart at about the same time

I don't really think it fits anymore unless they're making 76, 77, 78 international :shrug:

LeftCoaster
Nov 29, 2016, 12:16 AM
MU just announced that they have plan to start XIY-YVR in 2017. Didn't mention whether its one-stop or non-stop, and not sure where the extra frequency come from either...

Assume it was in Mandarin? I haven't seen anything in the English media.

Seems like something the would be planning on in the event of new slots being available. Highly doubt they'd want to drop more PVG flying given they've already reduced from 14x to 11x with the Nanjing service.

LeftCoaster
Nov 29, 2016, 12:18 AM
Their plan also have London, New York for 2017, LAX, SFO for 2018, CDG, MEL, SYD for 2019, and MXP, CHC, ORD for 2020... A350 for YVR may have to wait for a while since they pretty much have to use it for New York and maybe LAX/SFO...

I think the 332 will be weight restricted from HKG though, so they may put the 359 on it anyway.

nname
Nov 29, 2016, 12:45 AM
Assume it was in Mandarin? I haven't seen anything in the English media.

Seems like something the would be planning on in the event of new slots being available. Highly doubt they'd want to drop more PVG flying given they've already reduced from 14x to 11x with the Nanjing service.

XIY-PVG-YVR maybe?

Yes, it's in quite a few of Chinese media now... This is coming from the speeches from the CEO of the Northwest branch of China Eastern during an event :D

Gordon
Nov 29, 2016, 1:37 AM
We may see all the swing gates inc C\D 48 & 49 be used or international flights during that block.

casper
Nov 29, 2016, 12:43 PM
We may see all the swing gates inc C\D 48 & 49 be used or international flights during that block.

Sounds like they need to move quickly on getting shovels in the ground with the expansion of the international terminal.

zahav
Nov 29, 2016, 4:27 PM
I posted this but didn't get any replies (it was the dreaded last post of a page so probably didn't get seen). Any thoughts?

I wonder if AC is considering making YVR-DEL year round. I know it's a very new route and relatively untested for a non-stop, but I wonder if that's where they might assign at least part of the 787 capacity from LHR? Note, AC is also dropping it's 2nd daily Paris flight, also a 787. So there is probably some new routes (or extensions of existing seasonal routes like DEL) in the process. Unless they just plan on sticking these aircraft on something boring like YYZ-YVR haha...

On another topic, has it been discussed if YVR ever considered building a 2nd airport hotel? I'm thinking somewhere like the economy lot just west of the parkade. Keep the economy lot on ground floor and maybe add a 2nd floor, and then hotel on top? I think the Fairmont is amazing, but it's $$ and higher end. I'm thinking a more mid-market hotel with reasonable rates. It would really have a big market I'd think. It could be connected to the parkade, and even a new overheard walkway directly across to the US terminal (not necessary if there's a good connectrion to the parkade direct through to the terminal entrance/skytrain). Even YYC now has two on-site airport hotels. The airspace above the Economy lot just seems like it could get good use from something like this

trofirhen
Nov 29, 2016, 4:55 PM
I posted this but didn't get any replies (it was the dreaded last post of a page so probably didn't get seen). Any thoughts?

I wonder if AC is considering making YVR-DEL year round. I know it's a very new route and relatively untested for a non-stop, but I wonder if that's where they might assign at least part of the 787 capacity from LHR? Note, AC is also dropping it's 2nd daily Paris flight, also a 787. So there is probably some new routes (or extensions of existing seasonal routes like DEL) in the process. Unless they just plan on sticking these aircraft on something boring like YYZ-YVR haha...

On another topic, has it been discussed if YVR ever considered building a 2nd airport hotel? I'm thinking somewhere like the economy lot just west of the parkade. Keep the economy lot on ground floor and maybe add a 2nd floor, and then hotel on top? I think the Fairmont is amazing, but it's $$ and higher end. I'm thinking a more mid-market hotel with reasonable rates. It would really have a big market I'd think. It could be connected to the parkade, and even a new overheard walkway directly across to the US terminal (not necessary if there's a good connectrion to the parkade direct through to the terminal entrance/skytrain). Even YYC now has two on-site airport hotels. The airspace above the Economy lot just seems like it could get good use from something like this
Regarding AC YVR-DEL, I often wondered .... wouldn't it be a blast if, considering it's the shortest route from Western North America, and given the large Indian population in Vancouver ...
... Wouldn't it be a surprising blast if it didn't, unexpectedly, "get big" on them, and become a real 'in demand' route. Vancouver has the population base for it, if there's a big enough J class.
...........................
ACCOR Hotels of France has numerous chains of hotels, ranging from pricey SOFITEL, down to budget IBIS, and everything in between. They might be interested. Another hotel seems needed.

s211
Nov 29, 2016, 4:56 PM
I'm curious who just bought the YVR Fairmont hotel. The sale was announced just recently.