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excel
Jan 4, 2017, 4:02 AM
Just noticed the YVR flight departure/arrival page now list flights operating out of south terminal. Seems like it only have info for Pacific Coastal and WestJet flights operating in and out of gate G1 and G3 so far... (how many gates are there??)


Zero gates. Just a ramp with designated parking spots for Pacific Coastal, Orca Airways, Island Express, KD Air and a couple parking spots for chartered jet flights usually Air North or Flair Air. I haven't seen WS use it much but I am sure they run chartered flights out of there from time to time. There is a security checkpoint and waiting room for secured destinations. Non secured destinations such as Bella Coola, Bella Bella, Masset, Port Hardy, Trail etc... can board without security clearance whatsoever at the south side of the terminal. Often this includes the chartered jet flights that fly to unsecured airports, hence the reason for using the south terminal as it saves costs and time. (Yes, this means anyone can bring a gun or bomb undetected on to these flights :uhh:)

nname
Jan 4, 2017, 4:17 AM
I guess the gate 'G1' means the secured area, and 'G3' means the non-secured one. Here is a list of 'gate assignment' for tomorrow:

G1: Campbell River (8P), Comox (8P), Cranbrook (8P), Victoria (8P), Williams Lake (8P)
G3: Anahim Lake (8P), Bella Bella (8P), Masset (8P), Port Hardy (8P), Powell River (8P), Tofino (OR), Trail (8P)
no gate: Firebag (WS)

excel
Jan 4, 2017, 6:07 AM
Yup that's exactly it. Funny because I have never heard of the South Terminal being referred to as G gates and I used to work there.

nname
Jan 4, 2017, 6:26 AM
Maybe its something new...

Existing A, B, C, D, E piers, with the proposed east concourse being 'F', so the next letter would be 'G'...

trofirhen
Jan 4, 2017, 9:28 AM
Yup that's exactly it. Funny because I have never heard of the South Terminal being referred to as G gates and I used to work there.

Maybe its something new...

Existing A, B, C, D, E piers, with the proposed east concourse being 'F', so the next letter would be 'G'...

Why not call the South Terminal the 'satellite' terminal, or such?

SpongeG
Jan 4, 2017, 9:31 AM
In comparison to what it use to be with CP Air:
https://youtu.be/x72sOlbmD7k

The Reno Machine :) Come to think of it, it may be same model of aircraft still serving that route.

i remember flying CP air as a kid, i used to love it, i would always keep the little salt & pepper shakers you got with the meal. ahh the days of airline food.

i used to really like the livery of CP Air too, i had a little model plane, i think the pilot would give it to kids when they visited the cockpit, i know i got some british airway wings when i visited the pilot on a BA flight, I still have them somewhere... also got some stuff from SA airlines. I remember they used to give out toys too and there were cool stuff but got less exciting. I had this cool gyro toy thing from one of the airlines and some of those bendy poseable things and then they started to just give stickers or plastic crap, sort of how cracker jack used to give great stuff then just stickers...

one of the gyro toy things was like this
https://www.xump.com/Images/Products/MagneticGyroFlyWheel-300A.jpg

or these i got a few of these
https://img1.etsystatic.com/060/0/8853259/il_570xN.743315135_7wkb.jpg

the one i had was like this - the wheels collapsed and everything :)
http://yesterdaysairlines.weebly.com/uploads/4/2/5/5/42559615/5266414_orig.jpg

I am glad i got to experience the golden age of flying

SpongeG
Jan 4, 2017, 9:32 AM
is capital airlines new to YVR? i keep getting this banner today on here

https://tpc.googlesyndication.com/simgad/963170150401328317

whatnext
Jan 4, 2017, 8:08 PM
YVR-MIA is a perfect route for the 737 MAX 8. I would expect AC to start that route sometime in 2018, if it is indeed the largest unserved Canada-U.S. market.

Mind you, the A319 can currently do YVR-MIA non stop, even with the winter headwinds on the way back. So AC doesnt seem to think it is worth it just yet.

They did use the A319 on that route. I flew it in 2002 and it was long and weight restricted. Trying it now with a Rouge A319 would be cruel and unusual punishment.

LeftCoaster
Jan 4, 2017, 9:01 PM
is capital airlines new to YVR? i keep getting this banner today on here

https://tpc.googlesyndication.com/simgad/963170150401328317

Yes, the route just started Dec 30th.

LeftCoaster
Jan 4, 2017, 9:02 PM
YVR-MIA is a perfect route for the 737 MAX 8. I would expect AC to start that route sometime in 2018, if it is indeed the largest unserved Canada-U.S. market.

Yep, just the tricky bit that AC doesn't have their Max' yet.

When I calculated it a year back there was enough O&D alone to support a daily 737, not even factoring in connecting PAX.

moosejaw
Jan 4, 2017, 9:14 PM
YVR-MIA is a perfect route for the 737 MAX 8. I would expect AC to start that route sometime in 2018, if it is indeed the largest unserved Canada-U.S. market.

Mind you, the A319 can currently do YVR-MIA non stop, even with the winter headwinds on the way back. So AC doesnt seem to think it is worth it just yet.

SOrry to bust dreams.....But i think that YVR will be out of the loop

Cathay Pacific already flies to Miami via Air Cargo (Frankfurt actually) as does China Airlines. They both have maintenance bases here. China Airlines has already test flown a extended range Boeing 787 from Taiwan to Miami (8600 nm). Cathay is having a extended range A350 made for the trip. Don't get your hopes up bc MIA knows they have an untapped market in Asia. And connecting in Vancouver is not in any of those plans.

In one to two years you will be seeing MIA to Asia direct. Its a 16.5 hour flight to Asia.

I dont think there is a market full time from MIA to YVR. They are both very different cities in terms of business and pleasure.

LeftCoaster
Jan 4, 2017, 9:17 PM
SOrry to bust dreams.....But i think that YVR will be out of the loop

Cathay Pacific already flies to Miami via Air Cargo (Frankfurt actually) as does China Airlines. They both have maintenance bases here. China Airlines has already test flown a extended range Boeing 787 from Taiwan to Miami (8600 nm). Cathay is having a extended range A350 made for the trip. Don't get your hopes up bc MIA knows they have an untapped market in Asia. And connecting in Vancouver is not in any of those plans.

In one to two years you will be seeing MIA to Asia direct. Its a 16.5 hour flight to Asia.

I dont think there is a market full time from MIA to YVR. They are both very different cities in terms of business and pleasure.

Hmm, strange then that CX is considering it and looking to revise the bilateral. You must know something they don't.

Also, interesting that there isn't a market between YVR and MIA when the O&D information from statscan says the complete opposite....

Gordon
Jan 4, 2017, 9:38 PM
Maybe Summer seasonal Cruise traffic?

excel
Jan 4, 2017, 9:43 PM
Maybe Summer seasonal Cruise traffic?

You could say the same for the reverse direction in the winter.

nname
Jan 4, 2017, 10:14 PM
Cathay is having a extended range A350 made for the trip. Don't get your hopes up bc MIA knows they have an untapped market in Asia. And connecting in Vancouver is not in any of those plans.

I thought they did not order any A350ULR? A regular A350 running the route would have to take payload restriction. The would need A350ULR, B772LR, or B777-8X to run the route... and CX did not order any of them.

moosejaw
Jan 5, 2017, 12:38 AM
I thought they did not order any A350ULR? A regular A350 running the route would have to take payload restriction. The would need A350ULR, B772LR, or B777-8X to run the route... and CX did not order any of them.

My source:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article85540087.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-04/tesla-flips-the-switch-on-the-gigafactory

The last seasonal cruise traffic wasn't enough for a daily AA767 twenty years ago
But that was a bigge less efficient jet.

I really dont see that many people from here wanting to go on an Alaskan cruise in the summer. Maybe people wanting to go to Whistler/Blackcomb but again most go to Colorado. Maybe BCers going on a carribean cruise could justify it?

Westjet has direct flights from YYC to FLL so maybe YVR would work? I dont know.

Did someone post the O&D stats for MIA to YVR. How exactly are they calculated. Many people here don't even know where Vancouver is. They think its by Montreal.

Geography is not a strong point down here.
Nonetheless with all the valid arguments a direct Asia to Florida flight...... and Miami being the gateway to South America, you wont really need a Vancouver stopover.

nname
Jan 5, 2017, 1:23 AM
Nonetheless with all the valid arguments a direct Asia to Florida flight...... and Miami being the gateway to South America, you wont really need a Vancouver stopover.

Well, I still don't see a direct non-stop MIA-HKG flight. MIA-PEK or MIA-NRT maybe, but HKG is just too far and costly to serve non-stop. If CX start MIA-HKG tomorrow (and have the plane to do so), it will be by far the longest non-stop route, and would likely take 18.5 to 19.5hr on the return leg, not 16.5hr. Giving their current financial situation, if they really want to serve MIA, I just don't see they would do it non-stop.

Klazu
Jan 5, 2017, 2:22 AM
It's pretty incredible that so many airlines are already flying or considering to fly routes making a stopover in Vancouver. That's a true testament to YVR emerging as a global hub for not just one airline or alliance, but a bunch of them!

Having just flown back from Europe on KLM via AMS I have to admire how amazing a global hubs is. In Amsterdam there is no one or two clear slots when all flights to Asia or North America would be arrive and depart, but there are flights to all continents throughout the day. Looking at the list of departing flights is a mix of very cool destinations all over the world (they only miss Oceania).

It is also cool how many Delta wide-bodies one can see on AMS at any time, considering that it's Air France that is KLM's partner and Delta is just part of the same alliance. All in all AMS is a very nice airport and much better than FRA or LHR in my opinion.

And lastly on a completely different topic; why are so many airlines all of the sudden discovering MEX? Sure, it's a huge megacity, but how come it is suddenly justifying so many daily flights by several airlines? I am not aware of any sudden business or tourist boom in Mexico City, so is the surge just because the city may have previously been underserved?

moosejaw
Jan 5, 2017, 2:47 AM
Well, I still don't see a direct non-stop MIA-HKG flight. MIA-PEK or MIA-NRT maybe

Valid points, I dont disagree with your statements however its being considered. China Airlines has already made the Taipei trip already. and the infrastructure is already in place. and i never said 16.5 hours to HK, i said Asia (taipei)

Earlier this month, Asia’s largest international airline by passengers, Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd., announced it was considering a proposal from Airbus Group SE for a larger version of the newest A350 wide-body model that could potentially allow for a nonstop, direct flight between Miami and Hong Kong.

YVR Bruce
Jan 5, 2017, 2:48 AM
It's pretty incredible that so many airlines are already flying or considering to fly routes making a stopover in Vancouver. That's a true testament to YVR emerging as a global hub for not just one airline or alliance, but a bunch of them!


I believe some credit goes to the fed gov. Across the CDN political spectrum. They kept out those who would leach-down the market (1st SQ was told no to more than 3(?) x week, then the ME3) and instead allowed useful participants. Including CX to JFK etc, but also AC to TPE etc.

Re the growth in MEX traffic, hopefully someone with knowledge of available tools can explore whether there is a shift in MEX-origin traffic from the US toward Canada - even at the fringes. With all the recent Mexico bashing I would not be surprised if some discretionary traffic moves to YVR/YYC/YYZ/YUL. This as a separate effect from the new Visa exemption, but compounding it.

nname
Jan 5, 2017, 5:09 AM
China Airlines has already made the Taipei trip already.

That flight, in particular, is the presidential charter with very limited amount of passengers, operated tailwind direction only (return was via Central/South America then LAX).

A 777-300ER will not make the flight under normal operating condition.

trofirhen
Jan 5, 2017, 6:07 AM
From what I understand here, YVR - MIA is a coveted and remunerative potential route that keeps getting blocked or stalled for on reason or other.

OK, but what about YVR - Atlanta? For VYR pax, it's the ovious connecting point to the US southeast, but in paricular the large Florida market; Miami, FLL, Orlando, Tampa...
not to mention all the Carib destinaions out of ATL, like Nassau, Barbados, Aruba, and so on. ATL isn't the busiest airport in the world for nothing, and everyone know that.
I cannot understand why YVR gets token service from DL, which doesn't go guns for it.
Air Canada wants people to go through YYZ, which is a 'long way around' but why not a US airline? But is this not a potentially major route, with all kinds of connection potential?
As a contrasting example; YVR has several flights a day to ORD, but yet has two nonstop per day to MPS. Not knocking MPS, but if we have that, why isn't ATL getting more attention?
Can someone explain this to me, please? It almost seems irrational. Is it that important for Air Canada that YVR pax go through YYZ, or would this route pay for itself? Anyone?

mezzanine
Jan 5, 2017, 6:37 AM
Valid points, I dont disagree with your statements however its being considered. China Airlines has already made the Taipei trip already. and the infrastructure is already in place. and i never said 16.5 hours to HK, i said Asia (taipei)

MIA-TPE direct would be more tenuous than you would think as it will not get any significant transfer traffic from the PRC. cross-strait traffic is heavily regulated - the PRC currently puts significant limits on fifth freedom flights by taiwanese carriers because... china.

Hourglass
Jan 5, 2017, 10:36 AM
From what I understand here, YVR - MIA is a coveted and remunerative potential route that keeps getting blocked or stalled for on reason or other.

OK, but what about YVR - Atlanta? For VYR pax, it's the ovious connecting point to the US southeast, but in paricular the large Florida market; Miami, FLL, Orlando, Tampa...
not to mention all the Carib destinaions out of ATL, like Nassau, Barbados, Aruba, and so on. ATL isn't the busiest airport in the world for nothing, and everyone know that.
I cannot understand why YVR gets token service from DL, which doesn't go guns for it.
Air Canada wants people to go through YYZ, which is a 'long way around' but why not a US airline? But is this not a potentially major route, with all kinds of connection potential?
As a contrasting example; YVR has several flights a day to ORD, but yet has two nonstop per day to MPS. Not knocking MPS, but if we have that, why isn't ATL getting more attention?
Can someone explain this to me, please? It almost seems irrational. Is it that important for Air Canada that YVR pax go through YYZ, or would this route pay for itself? Anyone?

A couple of reasons I can think of.
1/ the majority of YVR's international traffic is Asia or Europe bound, or US West / East Coast. Connecting via ATL is a pretty significant backtrack esp going east, much more than YYZ.
2/ ATL may be the world's busiest airport, but that's driven largely by DL. ORD is a hub for both UA and AA
3/ If you look at traffic patterns for transfer traffic, ATL is mainly a transfer hub for USA north-south traffic. ORD is more a hub for east-west traffic (see here: http://www.anna.aero/2016/05/25/transfer-traffic-at-top-four-us-airports-analysed/). I don't think the north-south traffic is there for YVR

Atlanta aside, I could see a YVR-MIA tag working for CX. The cargo opportunity is what would make this route work (in the same way that cargo is a big driver for the YVR-JFK tag).

moosejaw
Jan 5, 2017, 1:45 PM
Agreed ^^^^^^
DL pretty much owns the ATL terminals just like AA has a major presence at DFW and the North Terminal at MIA.

I think if there was a justification for YVR to ATL then it would be Delta operating it. And even at one flight a day, I think it would be expensive for any other carrier other than Delta to operate such a flight. At the other terminals (I even think its just one terminal outside the international terminal) the airlines use, its a dogfight for a berth.

An Atlanta connection would be ideal but i think tough to justify. Delta already uses Seattle as an Asian connection.

Gordon
Jan 5, 2017, 1:54 PM
Woould West Jet consider YVR ATL?

moosejaw
Jan 5, 2017, 4:01 PM
Woould West Jet consider YVR ATL?

i would think but Westjet would have to pay a premium to land a spot there. The only room there would be at Concourse D if it were transborder flights which is already crowded. They could fly into Concourse F which is Air Canada but they share that with other intl airlines.

Westjet does not serve ATL at all which leads me to believe that its foray into the SE is leisure based. All other destinations in the SE if Westjet wer to fly into I would assume are business based.

Atlanta is a great city and i enjoy it more than Miami as it has more culture, museums, heritage, inepensive, but that traffic....forget it.

trofirhen
Jan 5, 2017, 5:59 PM
................
Atlanta is a great city and i enjoy it more than Miami as it has more culture, museums, heritage, inepensive, but that traffic....forget it.

Off topic, but I thought Atlanta had an extensive subway system, MARTA or something? Is it not effective in reducing traffic, or maybe Atlanta just has too much low-density sprawl.

deasine
Jan 5, 2017, 7:08 PM
CX MIA-HKG-MIA has been on the radar for a while. But keep in mind the focus of CX is not necessarily YVR-MIA but rather HKG-MIA, as does the HKG-YVR-JFK route, the focus is JFK and not necessarily YVR (in fact often over 75% of the capacity from JFK is destined for HKG). If this route is successful, this may also be a good way to further increase CX frequency past the 3 weekly addition.

moosejaw
Jan 5, 2017, 8:49 PM
Off topic, but I thought Atlanta had an extensive subway system, MARTA or something? Is it not effective in reducing traffic, or maybe Atlanta just has too much low-density sprawl.

Its nothing like vancouver and its ridership levels are no where as near it either.
Its unfortunate as it serves the airport, downtown, and buckhead.
A significant part of Atlantas downtown commuting is located in NW where there is no rapid transit. As other cities in the southeast, most commute by car.

SFUVancouver
Jan 5, 2017, 8:52 PM
Its nothing like vancouver and its ridership levels are no where as near it either.
Its unfortunate as it serves the airport, downtown, and buckhead.
A significant part of Atlantas downtown commuting is located in NW where there is no rapid transit. As other cities in the southeast, most commute by car.

MARTA serves Midtown, too, which is booming. My colleagues in ATL work and live there and are car-free much of the time. Uber is their friend.

teriyaki
Jan 6, 2017, 4:46 AM
I believe some credit goes to the fed gov. Across the CDN political spectrum. They kept out those who would leach-down the market (1st SQ was told no to more than 3(?) x week, then the ME3) and instead allowed useful participants. Including CX to JFK etc, but also AC to TPE etc.

Re the growth in MEX traffic, hopefully someone with knowledge of available tools can explore whether there is a shift in MEX-origin traffic from the US toward Canada - even at the fringes. With all the recent Mexico bashing I would not be surprised if some discretionary traffic moves to YVR/YYC/YYZ/YUL. This as a separate effect from the new Visa exemption, but compounding it.

Agreed. The government didn't get bullied around and stood their ground when they saw that it wasn't a sounds business decision. There is a fine balance between protectionism and making sound decisions and IMO they did a pretty good balance.

Klazu
Jan 6, 2017, 5:17 AM
Atlanta has both an extensive freeway network and a nice heavy rail subway through its town centres.

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/atlantan_metro3.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/atlanta_downtown_connector2.jpg

nname
Jan 6, 2017, 5:38 AM
Atlanta has both an extensive freeway network and a nice heavy rail subway through its town centres.

The line actually run mostly at-grade or elevated. It's a nice and fully grade-separated system, but the service is horrible though... I remember I walked into a station just outside of downtown just after PM peak, and the screen shows the next train will come in 28 minutes...

Oh, and it got the same fare gate and smart card system as here, more than 10 years ahead of us.

POCO
Jan 6, 2017, 7:15 AM
I just saw on airliners.net that Air India announced flights to YVR on twitter.

Edit heres a link to the tweet: https://twitter.com/airindiain/status/817245985445289984

teriyaki
Jan 6, 2017, 7:20 AM
I just saw on airliners.net that Air India announced flights to YVR on twitter.

Edit heres a link to the tweet: https://twitter.com/airindiain/status/817245985445289984

Image is vague. Also the text at the bottom "EX HKG/LHR/PVG". Does it make sense to anyone?

Speedbird1
Jan 6, 2017, 7:23 AM
I just saw on airliners.net that Air India announced flights to YVR on twitter.

Edit heres a link to the tweet: https://twitter.com/airindiain/status/817245985445289984

Can't tell if that's just an advertisement for YVR as a codeshare destination or not.. it says ex. HKG/LHR/PVG. Nothing about new nonstops or service or whatnot.

OP of the anet post has just deleted his post as well.

POCO
Jan 6, 2017, 7:37 AM
Those are all origin cities for air india code shares on air canada, but so is Tokyo...

Possibly just advertising that you can fly to yvr on "AI" aka an AC codeshare.

mezzanine
Jan 6, 2017, 7:51 AM
Ben schlappig has a post on the possible HKG-YVR-MIA flight on his blog (http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/01/05/cathay-pacific-miami-flight/). He circle-mapped it and YVR's geography seems favorable. We'll see if Cathay crunches the numbers and rolls the dice (and deals with the bilateral issues)


http://onemileatatime.img.boardingarea.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/HKG-MIA-CX.gif

zahav
Jan 6, 2017, 8:19 AM
November stats posted. We already know YVR reached 22 million for the year, but good to still see the actuals for Noivember. Amazing growth again at 11% overall, and now 9.6% YTD. The big gainers were transborder (+10.6%), Asia Pacific (+20.9%), and Misc. (+33.7%!!!). Domestic rolling along well (+7.8%). Europe had a bit of a pause (+1.4% only). Significant again is that for every sector other than Europe, the November growth outpaced the YTD growth. Can't for December and see exactly how the year ended. Not only record setting traffic, but % growth as well!

http://www.yvr.ca/en/about-yvr/facts-and-stats

moosejaw
Jan 6, 2017, 3:20 PM
Ben schlappig has a post on the possible HKG-YVR-MIA flight on his blog (http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/01/05/cathay-pacific-miami-flight/). He circle-mapped it and YVR's geography seems favorable. We'll see if Cathay crunches the numbers and rolls the dice (and deals with the bilateral issues)


http://onemileatatime.img.boardingarea.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/HKG-MIA-CX.gif

It seems easier than getting a specific plane and CX has a maintainence base at MIA for its cargo division. That makes sense.

Speedbird1
Jan 6, 2017, 8:04 PM
When the CX MIA rumours came out a year or two ago, the suggestion at that time had been that the JFK tag could be cut and replaced with MIA. The one saving grace of the JFK tag has been cargo, but if the bilateral can't be amended I wonder if it will be enough to keep it.

twoNeurons
Jan 6, 2017, 10:41 PM
Personally, I'd like to see YVR become a bigger OneWorld focus city.

Direct flights to Miami, Charlotte, Phoenix, and Madrid by a OneWorld airline would be great! The closest OneWorld hub to us now is LAX! And I believe WestJet is more likely to join SkyTeam if it joins ANY alliance in the future.

I'd also like see AA metal to YVR-Hawaii... purely so I have an option to use Avios on that route. :)

trofirhen
Jan 7, 2017, 1:24 AM
Personally, I'd like to see YVR become a bigger OneWorld focus city.

Direct flights to Miami, Charlotte, Phoenix, and Madrid by a OneWorld airline would be great! The closest OneWorld hub to us now is LAX! And I believe WestJet is more likely to join SkyTeam if it joins ANY alliance in the future.

I'd also like see AA metal to YVR-Hawaii... purely so I have an option to use Avios on that route. :)

Ironic that before being taken over by Air Canada, CP Air was OneWorld. I believe that the hq for OneWorld was, very briefly, in Vancouver!
That was a loss, but in the long haul, perhaps AC, could provide more global coverage, but it seems only rather recent that they've made any real effort in improving YVR as a hub.

Speedbird1
Jan 7, 2017, 2:20 AM
Ironic that before being taken over by Air Canada, CP Air was OneWorld. I believe that the hq for OneWorld was, very briefly, in Vancouver!
That was a loss, but in the long haul, perhaps AC, could provide more global coverage, but it seems only rather recent that they've made any real effort in improving YVR as a hub.

Not briefly, but rather for most of it's existence. Opened in Vancouver in 2000 and moved to NYC in 2011.

Hot Rod
Jan 7, 2017, 4:11 AM
I was just about to mention that Speedbird that Vancouver was THE original Oneworld home office. ...

Hot Rod
Jan 7, 2017, 4:18 AM
I do agree it would be nice to have more Oneworld but I think we have to do this one step at a time. It's nice to get love from A/C and Star and the continued expansion of SkyTeam despite any major presence (and a developing hub of theirs 200 km away). SeaTac wish it had as much SkyTeam intercontinental connections as YVR.

Let these develop and the market get defined (as a true connection hub) and I bet we'll see Oneworld and more independents jump into the action.

I do agree from a YVR prospective it would be lovely for WestJet to get in-bed with Oneworld rather than Sky. I also can't understand why Oneworld didn't go after one of the China3 - Sky got East and Southern whereas Air China is a long standing Star member. ... Not sure why Oneworld prefers the smallest presence.

teriyaki
Jan 7, 2017, 4:39 AM
I do agree it would be nice to have more Oneworld but I think we have to do this one step at a time. It's nice to get love from A/C and Star and the continued expansion of SkyTeam despite any major presence (and a developing hub of theirs 200 km away). SeaTac wish it had as much SkyTeam intercontinental connections as YVR.

Let these develop and the market get defined (as a true connection hub) and I bet we'll see Oneworld and more independents jump into the action.

I do agree from a YVR prospective it would be lovely for WestJet to get in-bed with Oneworld rather than Sky. I also can't understand why Oneworld didn't go after one of the China3 - Sky got East and Southern whereas Air China is a long standing Star member. ... Not sure why Oneworld prefers the smallest presence.

Likely to do with CX wanting to take all the China feed:P

Chikinlittle
Jan 7, 2017, 10:14 PM
Ben schlappig has a post on the possible HKG-YVR-MIA flight on his blog (http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/01/05/cathay-pacific-miami-flight/). He circle-mapped it and YVR's geography seems favorable. We'll see if Cathay crunches the numbers and rolls the dice (and deals with the bilateral issues)


http://onemileatatime.img.boardingarea.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/HKG-MIA-CX.gif

Actually, looks like YWG or YZF would be more favourable :haha:

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/509/31360701583_6ceff591e3_b.jpg

Gordon
Jan 7, 2017, 11:21 PM
would ywf be able to handle A 777?

YZF Yellwoknife

jmt18325
Jan 8, 2017, 5:23 AM
You heard it here first people: HKG - MIA via YWG. Lol

POCO
Jan 8, 2017, 10:28 AM
You heard it here first people: HKG - MIA via YWG. Lol

I imagine the domestic/international connections would be easier than YYC...

casper
Jan 8, 2017, 8:57 PM
You heard it here first people: HKG - MIA via YWG. Lol

That is silly. Why would they pass on Saskatoon to go to Winnipeg. Domestic to International connection are so much easier in YXE. Plus the airport has a fire place to warm up at after the walk down the bridge. :)

Sure YVR has an oversized fish tank.

mezzanine
Jan 9, 2017, 5:24 AM
Shout out to new service from Capital airlines, starting 2 days ago, to qingdao and Hangzhou.

China’s Capital Airlines is readying to make its first-ever departure from Vancouver International Airport (YVR) at 4:30 p.m. on January 6.

The airline plans to fly three times per week out of Vancouver - on Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays. The flights arrive at Qingdao, China, at 7:40 p.m. the following day and then continue on to Hangzhou, arriving at 11:25 p.m.

Flights will depart Hangzhou at 2:15 p.m. on Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays. They make a stop at Qingdao, where the non-stop flight to Vancouver will leave at 6:05 p.m. Flights then arrive at YVR at 1:15 p.m.


https://www.biv.com/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/d0/0e/d00e3f5e-9f4c-402a-9465-70f0e23ee728/capital_airlines2.png__0x500_q95_autocrop_crop-smart_subsampling-2_upscale.png

https://www.biv.com/article/2017/1/chinas-capital-airlines-today-launches-first-vanco/

nname
Jan 9, 2017, 11:11 AM
WS YVR-LGW will become daily, for the month of September only.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/270779/westjet-s17-london-gatwick-service-changes/

LeftCoaster
Jan 10, 2017, 1:09 AM
Hmm, strange month to bump flights. I understand it's likely related to when their limited 767 fleet is available but still kinda weird.

On another note, according to my big sheet of seats, Europe including London is only seeing an increase in seats of 3.0% for summer 17 vs summer 16. This is mainly due to the new Frankfurt and LGW on AC but the loss of LHR on AC and downgauge of Munich on LH.

Will be interesting to see if 3% increase in capacity is what we end up with, after such strong growth in 2016. There still might be a rouge flight or something in the works for 17 but it's getting a bit late to add anything too significant for summer 17 I would imagine.

twoNeurons
Jan 10, 2017, 6:13 PM
Likely to do with CX wanting to take all the China feed:P

Yeah... probably had to do with branding as well. OneWorld likes to bill itself as a premium alliance. Look at the roster.

BA, JAL, AA, Cathay Pacific, Qantas, Qatar...

"The alliance's stated objective is to be the first-choice airline alliance for the world's frequent international travelers."

They're all about big hubs and huge companies connecting hubs all over the world.

Although there are some up-and-coming nouveau-riche coming out of Mainland China, and there are definitely frequent travelers coming out of Beijing and Shanghai and Guangzhou, it seems that they're happy to funnel most of them through Hong Kong.

To be, OneWorld is the A380, *A is the 787, and SkyTeam is a combo of older 747s and A330s. :D

LeftCoaster
Jan 10, 2017, 9:42 PM
I always thought of *A as the premium alliance, with Lufthansa, Singapore, ANA, Asiana, Eva and what looks like eventually Ethiad.

SpongeG
Jan 10, 2017, 11:26 PM
some surprises to me in these

These Are the Best- and Worst-Performing Airlines in the World

The Worst 10 International Airlines of 2016

10. Hainan Airlines – 30.3 percent
9. Korean Air – 31.74 percent
8. Air China – 32.73 percent
7. Hong Kong Airlines – 33.42 percent
6. China Eastern Airlines – 35.8 percent
5. Asiana Airlines – 37.46 percent
4. Philippine Airlines – 38.33 percent
3. Air India – 38.71 percent
2. Icelandair – 41.05 percent
1. El Al – 56 percent

The Best 10 International Airlines of 2016

10. Qantas – 15.7 percent
9. TAM Linhas Aéreas – 14.93 percent
8. Delta Air Lines – 14.83 percent
7. Singapore Airlines – 14.55 percent
6. ANA – 14.46 percent
5. Austrian – 14.26 percent
4. Qatar Airways – 13.66 percent
3. JAL – 12.2 percent
2. Iberia – 11.82 percent
1. KLM – 11.47 percent

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-09/the-best-and-worst-airlines-in-the-world

Gordon
Jan 11, 2017, 4:36 AM
Are we likely to see any 748s at YVr this year?

It would be nice to see more competition within B.C. from West jet Encore. Cmpetition may bring prices down a bit.

teriyaki
Jan 11, 2017, 6:20 AM
Are we likely to see any 748s at YVr this year?

It would be nice to see more competition within B.C. from West jet Encore. Cmpetition may bring prices down a bit.

CX and KE regularly bring in their 748F freighters to YVR. The 748i was brought in by KE for a very short seasonal run this past summer, heres to hoping it makes a return.

zahav
Jan 11, 2017, 8:14 AM
Just the Korean Air 747-800 so far, probably will be the only one unless Lufthansa does a last minute change.

POCO
Jan 11, 2017, 4:56 PM
Just the Korean Air 747-800 so far, probably will be the only one unless Lufthansa does a last minute change.

Google flights is showing Lufthansa flying their 747 this summer.

I'm gonna try to fly the KE 748 this summer to HKG. I had wanted to take CXs a350 but not for those prices :p

sacrifice333
Jan 11, 2017, 5:33 PM
^BASED ON LIKELIHOOD OF DELAY!

Nothing to do with levels of service, guest satisfaction, airline safety record, or any other relevant measure, just ranked by delay likelihood.

LeftCoaster
Jan 11, 2017, 10:21 PM
Since we've seen a bunch of summer updates now loaded into the schedules I'll post the latest and greatest updates to my seat charts:

http://i.imgur.com/WvOR4Rq.png

Still unsure as to what Air China's final schedule will look like, as I think they now have unused frequencies which I doubt they will waste and YUL has already seen their update for the season.

Still awaiting the CZ update to the Guangzhou equipment which I fully anticipate will revert to 777-300, at least the bulk of the frequencies.

Also still no idea what's happening with AC's unused LHR slot which I also doubt will go to waste. Not many places AC can use it since its timing favours western departures and Alberta is a bit of a tough go right now. Maybe they can lease it for the year and reassess in 2018? Hainan and Tianjin remain in the chart but zeroed out, not sure what is going on with these routes and how they will fit into the current bilateral cap.

Fingers crossed for a few more positive updates in the coming months. :tup:

CX and KE regularly bring in their 748F freighters to YVR. The 748i was brought in by KE for a very short seasonal run this past summer, heres to hoping it makes a return.

22nd of June to 30th of September isn't a very short run IMO, that's over a quarter of the year. Fairly certain they are planning on bringing it back for summer 17'.

Hot Rod
Jan 12, 2017, 12:32 AM
Interesting Takeaways:

Biggest City-Pair: Vancouver-London 11,578; Vancouver-Hong Kong 10,332 (2nd)

Smallest City-Pair: Vancouver-Shenyang 237

Densest Route (single airline): Cathay Pacific YVR-HKG 17, Aeromexico YVR-MEX 14 (2nd)

Biggest Route (single airline): Cathay Pacific YVR-HKG 5,145

Biggest Airline: Air Canada 30,700

Smallest Airline: Beijing Capital Airlines 666

Biggest International-based Airline: Cathay Pacific 5, 145

Biggest Mainland China-based Airline: China Eastern 3,696

Biggest Asian-based Airline: Cathay Pacific 5,145; China Airlines 3,924 (2nd); Philippine Airlines 3,700 (3rd)

Biggest European-based Airline: Lufthansa 4,270; British Airways 3,283 (2nd)


Biggest/Smallest Airplane: A380 biggest, A319 smallest

Biggest/Smallest Airplane Asia: 747-800i biggest, 767-300 smallest

Biggest/Smallest Airplane Europe: A380 biggest, 757-200 smallest

Hot Rod
Jan 12, 2017, 12:48 AM
Hopefully we'll see the following additions:

Vancouver-Chongqing
Vancouver-Bangkok
Vancouver-Singapore (SQ return and/or Air Canada)
Vancouver-Melbourne
Vancouver-Auckland* (on Air Canada)
Vancouver-Honolulu* (on Hawaiian Airlines)
Vancouver-Taipei* (on Air Canada)
Vancouver-Kaohsiung
Vancouver-Osaka* (on ANA)
Vancouver-Seoul* (on Asiana)
Vancouver-Hanoi
Vancouver-Manila* (on Air Canada)
Vancouver-Jakarta
Vancouver-Mumbai
Vancouver-Moscow
Vancouver-Istanbul
Vancouver-Doha
Vancouver-Tel Aviv
Vancouver-Dubai-Johannesburg
Vancouver-Guadalajara
Vancouver-Monterrey
Vancouver-Sao Paulo
Vancouver-Bogota
Vancouver-Lima
Vancouver-Rio-Santiago
Vancouver-Rome
Vancouver-Berlin
Vancouver-Barcelona
Vancouver-Lisbon
Vancouver-Zurich


* existing route already served (add'l airline noted)

mezzanine
Jan 12, 2017, 1:19 AM
Since we've seen a bunch of summer updates now loaded into the schedules I'll post the latest and greatest updates to my seat charts:


^ how would you tally fifth freedom flights? YVR has PR and CX to JFK.

mezzanine
Jan 12, 2017, 1:24 AM
OK if we are getting the 2017 crystal ball out, I’ll keep my predictions short:

-AC will enhance their US network. 2016 saw a lot of united flights matched by a complementing AC to help with YVR transfer traffic. Not sexy or new, but helps grow the hub. Dunno if there are any united-only cities from YVR left, but I expect a matching AC flight with perhaps more frequency to other us cities. My hopes? new service to BOS and IAD. ABQ will likely not happen, but SLC likely will.

-Fifth freedoms - YVR – JFK has thrived despite time, economic downturns and the rise of 787s and A350s. I expect a few new novel announcements with maybe CX to MIA and (forgot what PRC carrier) to MEX. My longshot? YVR – MNL – PER on AC.

-AC to MEL and SIN, and whatever is still left on the investor’s day map. (?CAN)

_______

-YVR expansion plans - no surprise - expansion to the Intl terminal. I also suspect they will move on the N/S taxiway this year.

LeftCoaster
Jan 12, 2017, 1:36 AM
^ how would you tally fifth freedom flights? YVR has PR and CX to JFK.

I've got a separate page on transborder, they contain the 5th freedom flights that aren't int'l:

http://i.imgur.com/atKtLFF.png

OK if we are getting the 2017 crystal ball out, I’ll keep my predictions short:

-AC will enhance their US network. 2016 saw a lot of united flights matched by a complementing AC to help with YVR transfer traffic. Not sexy or new, but helps grow the hub. Dunno if there are any united-only cities from YVR left, but I expect a matching AC flight with perhaps more frequency to other us cities. My hopes? new service to BOS and IAD. ABQ will likely not happen, but SLC likely will.

-Fifth freedoms - YVR – JFK has thrived despite time, economic downturns and the rise of 787s and A350s. I expect a few new novel announcements with maybe CX to MIA and (forgot what PRC carrier) to MEX. My longshot? YVR – MNL – PER on AC.

-AC to MEL and SIN, and whatever is still left on the investor’s day map. (?CAN)

_______

-YVR expansion plans - no surprise - expansion to the Intl terminal. I also suspect they will move on the N/S taxiway this year.

I like a lot of this. Not sure about the N/S taxiway but that would be a great project to see get going, some of my landings in YVR can get a bit silly with the taxi distance.

Hope to see AC enhance transborder, maybe even take the plunge and announce a new destination rather than already served places. I'll take whatever they give us though.

AC to MEL or SIN seems likely, though not sure about both. I'm guessing MEL with a smaller chance of SIN and and an even smaller chance of both.

excel
Jan 12, 2017, 2:11 AM
Hopefully we'll see the following additions:

Vancouver-Taipei* (on Air Canada)

* existing route already served (add'l airline noted)

This is already planned. Year round, daily 787-9 starting June 8.

excel
Jan 12, 2017, 2:13 AM
Thanks for the charts LeftCoaster, they really are informative. Air Canada's route map out of YVR is pretty impressive.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 12, 2017, 8:59 PM
G'day all... back in Melbourne after a wonderful time in snowy Vancouver!

Rouge is now bumping NGO up to 4 weekly earlier... so now 4 weekly from mid June right through the summer scheds.

Also... KIX will now run DAILY from 1 July through end of September.

Keep those increases coming.....

Back to the sweltering heat!

excel
Jan 12, 2017, 9:08 PM
Nice that's great news.

LeftCoaster
Jan 12, 2017, 10:36 PM
Exciting, thanks Johnny.

Lose a frequency with Dublin but gain it right back with KIX. I guess we know where that DUB frequency went now.

I wonder with KIX showing so much strength if it warrants going year round, maybe 3x PW in the winter, or if it is just purely seasonal.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 12, 2017, 10:41 PM
Exciting, thanks Johnny.

Lose a frequency with Dublin but gain it right back with KIX. I guess we know where that DUB frequency went now.

I wonder with KIX showing so much strength if it warrants going year round, maybe 3x PW in the winter, or if it is just purely seasonal.

Technically YVR didn't lose a frequency to DUB as it is the same frequency as last summer.. I think the additional frequency that was temporarily added was just a scheduling change... in pure AC fashion... giveth then taketh away.

Like most overseas routes, Japan is still a very seasonal market... one day maybe that will change!

LeftCoaster
Jan 12, 2017, 10:45 PM
Hmm I thought the 4th was officially being sold?
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/269515/air-canada-rouge-increases-vancouver-dublin-seasonal-flights-in-s17/?highlight=Vancouver%20Dublin

Or was airlineroute just reporting the schedule change as though it were?

Johnny Aussie
Jan 12, 2017, 11:43 PM
Hmm I thought the 4th was officially being sold?
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/269515/air-canada-rouge-increases-vancouver-dublin-seasonal-flights-in-s17/?highlight=Vancouver%20Dublin

Or was airlineroute just reporting the schedule change as though it were?

Don't know. The DUB route shuffled through YYZ last year, this year it's YVR based and rotating with NGO, so NGO is 4 weekly DUB is 3 weekly.

NGO was only going to be 4 weekly starting in August and through Sept only... now it's moved forward to early July.

So again, YVR didn't lose a frequency to DUB for YOY comparisons.

As for KIX... this was just added this week so not sure where they got that from.

AC still seems to be shuffling things around... summer scheds for international flying should be solidified soon.

nname
Jan 12, 2017, 11:48 PM
The 4th weekly that was "lost" from DUB was on Monday, it probably goes to the 4th weekly on NGO, which also run on Monday

The new weekly gained for KIX is on Wednesday. Currently the plane used for KIX flies to PVR on Wednesday, and that flight still exist as of now.

So to run that extra flight, AC would either have a new plane, or we'll end up losing PVR on AC soon...

LeftCoaster
Jan 12, 2017, 11:49 PM
So again, YVR didn't lose a frequency to DUB for YOY comparisons.


Oh of course, I had just already updated my 2017 chart, so it was a reduction in my expectation of summer 17', but of course DUB still even from last year.

Rouge is still showing a huge capacity increase of 189% vs summer 16'. :tup:

trofirhen
Jan 14, 2017, 12:05 AM
Just got back early today from NZ. Auckland airport, built 1966 and about the scale of the original YVR 1968 terminal, nevertheless has 17m pax/year at last count and big-time plans.
Busy, noisy arrivals level but pleasant departure level.
They foresee making the airport into a major hub with an ambitious 40m pax.
They even talk about connecting South America and Asia, so could be a real competito to yvr for that market. A good one to watch.
https://www.aucklandairport.co.nz/downloads/aial-masterplan.pdf
if anyone is interested.
Surprising parallels to YVRmaster plan, this one written in 2013.

§ Shanghai was exactly the way it gets written up: vaultlike building with a deadness to it, pierced by intermittent announcements; enormously understaffed with long long lineups.
The jaunt into the city centre made it all worthwhile, though. Surprised at not only Cartier and Tiffany, etc, but Van Cleef, Salvatore Ferragamo, etc, and a big APPLE store.;)

WhyVeeAre
Jan 14, 2017, 2:32 AM
Long time reader, first time poster. Why does it seem like Delta has a big presence here when they have a hub in Seattle? Wouldn't it seem logical just to funnel passengers to Seattle frequently?

On another note, with the challenges of the new terminal in Calgary, could WestJet be eyeing more flights in/out of Vancouver and beefing up their presence?

moosejaw
Jan 14, 2017, 7:11 AM
Just got back early today from NZ. Auckland airport, built 1966 and about the scale of the original YVR 1968 terminal, nevertheless has 17m pax/year at last count and big-time plans.
Busy, noisy arrivals level but pleasant departure level.
They foresee making the airport into a major hub with an ambitious 40m pax.


The Christchurch airport is a real stunner in my opinion
Real clean layout. I think it's the 2nd busiest airport in NZ.

Auckland has two terminals btw. Intl and Domestic. I did see Lan Chile there in Auckland while I was there

trofirhen
Jan 14, 2017, 4:28 PM
The Christchurch airport is a real stunner in my opinion
Real clean layout. I think it's the 2nd busiest airport in NZ.

Auckland has two terminals btw. Intl and Domestic. I did see Lan Chile there in Auckland while I was there
Never made it to Christchurch, which is too bad, as my grandmother was from there.
I did use the Auckland domestic terminal, though, when I flew up from Blenheim to Auckland, going home.
* Checked out connecting distances from several major Asian cities to South America via AKL, then via YVR.
AKL beats YVR for SCL, EZE, maybe GRU in some cases.
Vancouver is closer to CHA and everything north. Interesting to see what AKL has in plan. Big time.

excel
Jan 14, 2017, 8:05 PM
Long time reader, first time poster. Why does it seem like Delta has a big presence here when they have a hub in Seattle? Wouldn't it seem logical just to funnel passengers to Seattle frequently?

On another note, with the challenges of the new terminal in Calgary, could WestJet be eyeing more flights in/out of Vancouver and beefing up their presence?

Welcome to the forum!

Delta's codeshare market in YVR is strong:
Aeromexico
Air France
China Airlines
China Southern
China Eastern
KLM
WestJet

None of these airlines fly to SEA so YVR is key for connections.

YYC's new terminal will likely have minimal effect on the routes WestJet chooses to fly.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 14, 2017, 11:42 PM
The 4th weekly that was "lost" from DUB was on Monday, it probably goes to the 4th weekly on NGO, which also run on Monday

The new weekly gained for KIX is on Wednesday. Currently the plane used for KIX flies to PVR on Wednesday, and that flight still exist as of now.

So to run that extra flight, AC would either have a new plane, or we'll end up losing PVR on AC soon...

Yeah... the big rouge mystery continues... I am pretty sure there is still one piece of metal unaccounted for... perfect to launch two thrice weekly flights. :shrug:

Yes, PVR is still in there on Wednesdays... a very odd day to fly there obviously was just using up what otherwise would have been an idle plane...

Johnny Aussie
Jan 14, 2017, 11:47 PM
Long time reader, first time poster. Why does it seem like Delta has a big presence here when they have a hub in Seattle? Wouldn't it seem logical just to funnel passengers to Seattle frequently?

Each of Delta's hubs has a specific market so by having flights to each of them offers many options. SEA's DL hub is still relatively very small compared to ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC etc....

YVR-JFK and YVR-LAX are also targeting larger O&D markets. But both have significant DL operations for hubbing purposes too.

YVR-MSP, YVR-SLC, YVR-DTW and YVR-ATL are far more connection oriented and each one has a niche market area that is covered.... with some overlap of course. SEA is used for its decent western US network and its limited European and Asian network.

So funnelling EVERYTHING through SEA would not be the best way to market themselves in YVR... you are right though DL definitely has a decent presence in YVR again.

trofirhen
Jan 15, 2017, 5:07 AM
Welcome to the forum!

Delta's codeshare market in YVR is strong:
Aeromexico
Air France
China Airlines
China Southern
China Eastern
KLM
WestJet

None of these airlines fly to SEA so YVR is key for connections.

YYC's new terminal will likely have minimal effect on the routes WestJet chooses to fly.
Yay! That's the sort of stuff I like. Thanx.
On another note, I wonder how many routes are planned for the future.
An old question, but I think valid:
what are some possible new destinations for YVR?
I think only Johnny could, answer that, and he'd just say:
[sit back and see for yourself.] ;);)
Cool that YVR is holding its own well against Seattle too, it seems.

WhyVeeAre
Jan 16, 2017, 12:15 AM
Welcome to the forum!

Delta's codeshare market in YVR is strong:
Aeromexico
Air France
China Airlines
China Southern
China Eastern
KLM
WestJet

None of these airlines fly to SEA so YVR is key for connections.

YYC's new terminal will likely have minimal effect on the routes WestJet chooses to fly.

Thanks for the welcome! That's something I definitely overlooked. Thank you!

Each of Delta's hubs has a specific market so by having flights to each of them offers many options. SEA's DL hub is still relatively very small compared to ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC etc....SEA is used for its decent western US network and its limited European and Asian network.

So funnelling EVERYTHING through SEA would not be the best way to market themselves in YVR... you are right though DL definitely has a decent presence in YVR again.

It's interesting that YVR has such a strong SkyTeam footing given that SEA (however small) is a hub for DL, and (even though they aren't a full member) YYC is a WS hub. It'll be interesting to watch how things progress over the coming years as Air Canada inevitably boosts the Star Alliance strength here.

excel
Jan 16, 2017, 1:41 AM
Thanks for the welcome! That's something I definitely overlooked. Thank you!

It's interesting that YVR has such a strong SkyTeam footing given that SEA (however small) is a hub for DL, and (even though they aren't a full member) YYC is a WS hub. It'll be interesting to watch how things progress over the coming years as Air Canada inevitably boosts the Star Alliance strength here.

Keep in mind that SEA has a huge amount of domestic traffic and doesn't have that much available capacity remaining for foreign airlines. Therefore it is more expensive than YVR to get a slot. For comparison sake there is a total of 15 foreign airlines that operate out of SEA. YVR almost has double the amount at 28 yet SEA still doubles us in passenger totals.

thenoflyzone
Jan 16, 2017, 9:55 PM
Never made it to Christchurch, which is too bad, as my grandmother was from there.
I did use the Auckland domestic terminal, though, when I flew up from Blenheim to Auckland, going home.
* Checked out connecting distances from several major Asian cities to South America via AKL, then via YVR.
AKL beats YVR for SCL, EZE, maybe GRU in some cases.
Vancouver is closer to CHA and everything north. Interesting to see what AKL has in plan. Big time.

If AKL is counting on South America - East Asia to make it to 40 million passengers, i hope they have a plan B !

North America and even Europe are better placed to capture 90%+ of that market. AKL is only at play from one Pacific rim country in South America (and maybe Argentina, since NZ already flies there), and only to a select number of destinations in Asia.

I do like their master plan though. A proper parallel runway, and in between, a proper (single) terminal building, a concept that has eluded Australia and NZ thus far, making it easier for connections from domestic to international and vice versa.

Now, as soon as they start driving on the right side of the road, we'll call it progress !

Hot Rod
Jan 16, 2017, 10:35 PM
^ Lots more domestic connecting pax in SEA vs. YVR. USA domestic market is also XX % larger than Canadian domestic market - so total pax # isn't an accurate comparison.

CASE IN POINT -> SEA also has the same total pax as YYZ (Toronto Pearson), but I'd argue that YYZ is a much larger, better served WW market than SEA by far. Like Vancouver (which is also much better connected than SEA), YYZ just happens to have less domestic connecting pax and routes/frequencies. ...

thenoflyzone
Jan 16, 2017, 10:44 PM
Both YVR and SEA benefit from the fact that they are ideally placed to capture a good chunk of North America- East Asia traffic. On that aspect, they are the same.

SEA is disadvantaged in the fact that it competes with LAX as the main west coast hub for DL. (MSP's Asian flights don't help either)

AC doesn't have that problem, and has clearly shown that it is focusing on YVR as it's main west coast hub, relegating YYC to a domestic focus city operation. If DL were to have a single west coast hub, SEA would see much more Asian flights than it currently does.

As for foreign airlines, it's simple really. It can be summed up with one word. Demographics.

YVR is Canada's third largest city. An important tourism/business center with a huge East Asian/South Asian population (40% of total, almost 1 million people).
SEA is only the 15th largest US city with a relatively small Asian population base (14%) and probably less tourism traffic than YVR. All the corporate biggies they have won't change that fact, and won't necessarily help attract foreign airlines.

What else is there to say really...

mezzanine
Jan 17, 2017, 12:46 AM
SEA is several steps behind YVR with terminal improvements and really will be hamstrung (definitely with timely and smooth intl transfers) until they are finally built in ? 2-4 yrs time.

Speaking of terminals, Craig Richmond will be giving his talk in 2 days about YVR expansion plans.

Interesting to note that DL recently announced several new domestic routes to add to potential TPAC transfers, not unlike AC and YVR.

Hot Rod
Jan 17, 2017, 2:45 AM
It's not just DL at SEA (vs. LAX) but Alaska which is SeaTac's biggest airline by far and largest source of connecting pax and always has been; SEA competes with YVR, SFO, and (to a much lesser extent) PDX. If SEA didn't have Alaska Airlines then the total numbers would be far lesser - I recon to between 25-30MM pax per year considering the market.

YVR is Canada's 3rd city and the west's largest, and main pacific gateway and has large immigrant communities and strong business ties to Asia (than SEA). This is why YVR has always been a larger "Intercontinental" airport despite having quite low connecting pax. YVR has always had the lead here, by far.

No doubt that SEA is a larger domestic hub with two domestic hub ops (one relative fortress hub) where YVR (despite being a major hub for Air Canada) is and likely will not be.

This could change if Westjet increases its presence to hub status (ala near Alaska Airlines at SEA); one would expect a surge in pax as they would be double counted (arriving then departing). Could also change with twov and/or more international to international connections; (which lately seem to be just same plane direct flights, which I imagine pax continuing on do not get double counted). ..

casper
Jan 17, 2017, 3:11 AM
It's not just DL at SEA (vs. LAX) but Alaska which is SeaTac's biggest airline by far and largest source of connecting pax and always has been; SEA competes with YVR, SFO, and (to a much lesser extent) PDX. If SEA didn't have Alaska Airlines then the total numbers would be far lesser - I recon to 30MM pax per year.

YVR is Canada's 3rd city and the west's largest, and main pacific gateway and has large immigrant communities and strong business ties to Asia (than SEA). This is why YVR has always been a larger "Intercontinental" airport despite having quite low connecting pax. YVR has always had the lead here, by far.

No doubt that SEA is a larger domestic hub with two domestic hub ops (one relative fortress hub) where YVR (despite being a major hub for Air Canada) is and likely will not be.

This could change if Westjet increases its presence to hub status (ala near Alaska Airlines at SEA); one would expect a surge in pax as they would be double counted (arriving then departing). Could also change with twov and/or more international to international connections; (which lately seem to be just same plane direct flights, which I imagine pax continuing on do not get double counted). ..

Seattle also serves as a main transit point for traffic in and out of the state of Alaska. Having another country (Canada) separating Alaska from the rest of the US drives quite a bit of air travel.

For domestic traffic Vancouver is not a great hub. With exception of Vancouver Island and some of the smaller communities in BC there is not a strong motivation for Vancouver to be a major domestic hub.

YVR Bruce
Jan 17, 2017, 3:20 AM
This could change ........ one would expect a surge in pax as they would be double counted (arriving then departing). Could also change with two and/or more international to international connections; (which lately seem to be just same plane direct flights, which I imagine pax continuing on do not get double counted). ..

I thought the established ACI counting regime allowed each O/D passenger to be counted as one, but transferring PX counted as one - for both legs (in & out).

thenoflyzone
Jan 17, 2017, 3:33 AM
ICAO counting method means a connecting passenger counts for 2.

nname
Jan 17, 2017, 5:35 AM
Seattle also serves as a main transit point for traffic in and out of the state of Alaska. Having another country (Canada) separating Alaska from the rest of the US drives quite a bit of air travel.

For domestic traffic Vancouver is not a great hub. With exception of Vancouver Island and some of the smaller communities in BC there is not a strong motivation for Vancouver to be a major domestic hub.

"not great" sounds like an understatement to me... I'd say Vancouver is a horrible hub for domestic travel outside of BC and major cities. Geography might be a reason, but for the size and traffic, YVR should have 5-7 more.

Calculating domestic destinations outside of home province (I've counted NB, PE, NS as one "province" so the geographical size is more similar, and count NU west of Hudson Bay as YZF's home), YVR is ahead of airports like Whitehorse, Saskatoon, and Regina, but behind Winnipeg and Halifax.

YYC 24 Abbotsford, Brandon, Comox, Fort St.John, Halifax, Hamilton, Kamloops, Kelowna, Kitchener, London, Nanaimo, Penticton, Montreal, Ottawa, Regina, Saskatoon, St. John's, Thunder Bay, Toronto, Vancouver, Victoria, Windsor, Winnipeg, Yellowknife
YYZ 21 Abbotsford, Calgary, Charlottetown, Deer Lake, Edmonton, Fort McMurray, Fredericton, Gander, Halifax, Kelowna, Moncton, Mont-Tremblant, Montreal, Quebec City, Regina, Saint John, Saskatoon, St. John's, Vancouver, Victoria, Winnipeg
YUL 18 Calgary, Charlottetown, Edmonton, Fredericton, Halifax, Hamilton, Iqaluit, Moncton, Ottawa, Saint John, St John's, Thunder Bay, Toronto(YYZ/YTZ), Vancouver, Wabush, Windsor, Winnipeg
YOW 17 Calgary, Charlottetown, Edmonton, Fredericton, Halifax, Iqaluit, Moncton, Montreal, Quebec City, Rankin Inlet, Regina, Saskatoon, St. John's, Vancouver, Whitehorse, Winnipeg, Yellowknife
YEG 16 Abbotsford, Comox, Halifax, Hamilton, Kelowna, Moncton, Montreal, Ottawa, Regina, Saskatoon, Toronto, Vancouver, Victoria, Whitehorse, Winnipeg, Yellowknife
YWG 13 Abbotsford, Calgary, Edmonton, Hamilton, Halifax, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Regina, Saskatoon, Thunder Bay, Toronto, Vancouver
YHZ 12 Calgary, Deer Lake, Edmonton, Gander, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, St. John's, Stephenville, Toronto(YYZ/YTZ), Winnipeg
YVR 11 Calgary, Edmonton, Fort McMurray, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Regina, Saskatoon, Toronto, Whitehorse, Winnipeg
YXY 7 Calgary, Edmonton, Inuvik, Kelowna, Ottawa, Vancouver, Yellowknife
YTZ 6 Halifax, Moncton, Montreal, Mont Tremblant, Quebec City, Saint John's
YQR 6 Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, Toronto, Vancouver, Winnipeg
YXE 6 Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, Toronto, Vancouver, Winnipeg
YYT 6 Calgary, Fredericton, Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
YZF 5 Calgary, Edmonton, Iqaluit, Ottawa, Whitehorse

Note: I might miss a few cities for airports other than YVR, and this is assuming that YVR-YHZ is not coming back since it had not being announced yet. Also, airports serving both YYZ and YTZ counts as 2 destinations.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 17, 2017, 5:47 PM
Per airlineroute.net tweet.

KE bringing the 748i in earlier this summer.

Now commencing 2 May. 4 weekly until 31 May and then
daily 1 June until 28 October.