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POCO
May 5, 2017, 8:10 AM
Re: MEL - There's some first half December fares for under $1400 CAD. Not bad.

Re: MCO - the AC flights are daytime flights, leave YVR in the morning. This is far more attractive (depending on perspective and preference I guess) than the WJ red-eye to MCO.

I agree on MCO. I was looking into taking the family there this winter but I had no interest in taking a toddler to the airport when they should be sleeping. If this stays around next year I'd happily take it.

thenoflyzone
May 5, 2017, 8:50 PM
March stats posted. Growth picked up pretty significantly from February's breather figures... Domestic up 3.5%, Transborder up 8.7%, Asia Pac up 16.3%, Misc up 25.9%. Europe down again, but by far less than previous months, down 2.5%

These high growth figures are amazing, for years YVR wasn't posting anywhere close to these numbers (Misc and Asia Pacific especially, but even transborder with 8.7% is really high actually, for years the Bellingham factor and other things made transborder the weakest part of the airport). But not anymore. And this growth was without any real new routes starting that month. Once all the new summer routes come online grwoth should continue well

Forgot the important ones. Overall 7.4% increase in March. YTD 7.0% increase. Impressive indeed.

March numbers

YYZ - still waiting

YVR +7.4%, YTD +7.0%

YUL +8.1%, YTD +6.0%.

YYC +1.2%, YTD +1.07%

YEG +3.3%, YTD +0.1%

YOW +0.6%, YTD -0.5%

Klazu
May 5, 2017, 9:10 PM
Is Europe being down a continent-wide phenomenon? There have been articles of for example France experiencing huge losses in numbers of tourists due to ongoing civil unrest and constant attacks. I would imagine the same trend for many other Western European countries as well (I wouldn't go there right now myself), but is that the reason here or is there some YVR specific reason for the flat numbers?

thenoflyzone
May 6, 2017, 3:37 PM
YVR-MEL will be the longest AC flight, correct? It seems longer than YYZ-HKG or YYZ-BOM


YVR-MEL is 13,183 km. 16 hr 00 min long. Longest flight for AC by distance and block time. Will be the 11th longest flight in the world once it starts.

By comparison

DEL-YYZ is 14 h 20 min
BOM-YYZ is 15 hr 10 min
HKG-YYZ is 15 hr 35 min (current longest, #29 in the world)

Canadian74
May 6, 2017, 4:56 PM
YVR-MEL is 13,183 km. 16 hr 00 min long. Longest flight for AC by distance and block time. Will be the 11th longest flight in the world once it starts.

By comparison

DEL-YYZ is 14 h 20 min
BOM-YYZ is 15 hr 10 min
HKG-YYZ is 15 hr 35 min (current longest, #29 in the world)

Yikes, wonder how pleasant (or unpleasant) it will be with 30" pitch on AC 789s

mezzanine
May 6, 2017, 10:05 PM
Is Europe being down a continent-wide phenomenon? There have been articles of for example France experiencing huge losses in numbers of tourists due to ongoing civil unrest and constant attacks. I would imagine the same trend for many other Western European countries as well (I wouldn't go there right now myself), but is that the reason here or is there some YVR specific reason for the flat numbers?

I suspect a major factor is the AC YVR-DEL direct flight that took a lot of European transfer traffic from LH/BA. It ended in early april so maybe we will see a bump.

I also think chinese airlines are also taking a larger share of indo-canadian VFR that used to go thru Europe.

Cage
May 7, 2017, 1:06 AM
I suspect a major factor is the AC YVR-DEL direct flight that took a lot of European transfer traffic from LH/BA. It ended in early april so maybe we will see a bump.

I also think chinese airlines are also taking a larger share of indo-canadian VFR that used to go thru Europe.

In their Q1-2017 financials, AC categorizes all The DEL traffic as TransAtlantic.

Does YVR use their own categorization criteria?

casper
May 7, 2017, 2:20 PM
In their Q1-2017 financials, AC categorizes all The DEL traffic as TransAtlantic.

Does YVR use their own categorization criteria?

Hope they do. Last thing they should do is have the same route in different categories because the operator is different.

SpongeG
May 7, 2017, 7:35 PM
I wonder if they patrol the customer parking lot for cars who park too long? can't employees just park in there?

Designer mall employee fuming over staff parking fees

McArthurGlen mall employee says minimum wage retail workers shouldn't have to pay for parking


Starting May 1, however, the airport authority will enforce parking fees — $4 for each four hours or portion of an hour — on the lot staff had been using.

The airport also reminded mall employees they must buy a parking pass for a YVR-owned employee lot at $69.88 per month if they want to drive to work.

Hum says the parking policy is a significant burden.

"Retail doesn't pay a lot. It's usually minimum or near minimum. I work part-time. $70 is a lot of money. It buys a lot of groceries in my household."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/designer-mall-employee-fuming-over-staff-parking-fees-1.4093166

Cage
May 7, 2017, 8:06 PM
(1) I wonder if they patrol the customer parking lot for cars who park too long? (2) can't employees just park in there?

(1) it appears that YVR is indeed patrolling the lots. They have a good understanding of the overnight parking situation.

(2) it is easy to spot the employee cars as they either start earlier than opening or stay later than closing time. Finally, the same car is in a similar spot 3-5 times per week.

Does McArthurglen have free parking for the first 3-4 hours? That is another way that employee parking is regulated, make the free period less than the minimum shift.

SpongeG
May 7, 2017, 8:18 PM
i've used transit more than i've driven there. And when I have driven 1/2 of the parking seems to be empty. I've never stayed very long, usually a quick in and out so i never really noticed if there are limits.

osirisboy
May 7, 2017, 8:55 PM
That's just like every other mall. Example Metrotown you can only park for 2 hours, Oakridge is 2-3 hours I think also. I guess they can run out on break and lunch and move their vehicle to a new spot lol

casper
May 9, 2017, 5:19 AM
(1) it appears that YVR is indeed patrolling the lots. They have a good understanding of the overnight parking situation.

(2) it is easy to spot the employee cars as they either start earlier than opening or stay later than closing time. Finally, the same car is in a similar spot 3-5 times per week.

Does McArthurglen have free parking for the first 3-4 hours? That is another way that employee parking is regulated, make the free period less than the minimum shift.

What they need to do is get rid of the regressive transit charge for using sky train leaving sea island. Just move Sea Island into Zone 3 and be remove the special charge.

flipper316
May 9, 2017, 6:34 AM
What they need to do is get rid of the regressive transit charge for using sky train leaving sea island. Just move Sea Island into Zone 3 and be remove the special charge.
Why? There's ways around it. If you have a compass card with a monthly pass or Upass or Translink employee pass you don't pay the 5$ addfare. If you have a compass card with stored value and you need to get to Sea Island for a few hours or half a day or a day you can buy your return single use ticket out a compass vending machine at station outside of sea island. Use you compass card with stored value on the way to sea island and once you're done with you business on sea island for the day use that return single use ticket you bought earlier in the day to leave sea island.

Johnny Aussie
May 9, 2017, 8:49 AM
Just saw this tweet from airlineroute.net

"Icelandair intends to convert Vancouver service to year-round operation from winter 2017/18 season."

Looks like twice weekly - flights departing Fridays and Sundays. Inbound flights operate Thursdays and Saturdays.

casper
May 9, 2017, 12:44 PM
Why? There's ways around it. If you have a compass card with a monthly pass or Upass or Translink employee pass you don't pay the 5$ addfare. If you have a compass card with stored value and you need to get to Sea Island for a few hours or half a day or a day you can buy your return single use ticket out a compass vending machine at station outside of sea island. Use you compass card with stored value on the way to sea island and once you're done with you business on sea island for the day use that return single use ticket you bought earlier in the day to leave sea island.

That is exactly the reason to get rid of it. That is way to complicated, So basically if you know how to use the compass card in just the right way you avoid paying it, but if you don't you get dinged.

It is regressive, and it amounts to a marketing tool to discourage the use of transit to the shopping centre or airport.

SpongeG
May 9, 2017, 11:58 PM
one question, if i had a preloaded compass card would i still get dinged the surcharge at the airport? I currently just buy a 1 use single ticket when i need to get home, wondering if its worth getting a compass card.

Orcair
May 10, 2017, 1:31 AM
one question, if i had a preloaded compass card would i still get dinged the surcharge at the airport? I currently just buy a 1 use single ticket when i need to get home, wondering if its worth getting a compass card.

Yea, $5 Add-Fare would apply if you used stored value. It isn't charged if you have an already activated day-pass or month pass, iirc.

casper
May 10, 2017, 2:11 AM
Yea, $5 Add-Fare would apply if you used stored value. It isn't charged if you have an already activated day-pass or month pass, iirc.

So does that mean if you have multiple people traveling. The solution is to send one person a head with all the compass cards to Bridgeport. Have him check in each of the other members of the group, so it is registered in zone 2, Then return back to YVR so everyone else can then enter for a Zone 1 fare.

Nah, just change the same it is simpler.

twoNeurons
May 10, 2017, 9:23 PM
Why? There's ways around it. If you have a compass card with a monthly pass or Upass or Translink employee pass you don't pay the 5$ addfare. If you have a compass card with stored value and you need to get to Sea Island for a few hours or half a day or a day you can buy your return single use ticket out a compass vending machine at station outside of sea island. Use you compass card with stored value on the way to sea island and once you're done with you business on sea island for the day use that return single use ticket you bought earlier in the day to leave sea island.

:O Thanks for the tip. I had never thought of that.

I regularly park at the mall and take the train in when I don't know exactly when a flight is coming in, then I'll go over to the mall for a bit afterwards to keep it a legit visit.

twoNeurons
May 10, 2017, 9:26 PM
So does that mean if you have multiple people traveling. The solution is to send one person a head with all the compass cards to Bridgeport. Have him check in each of the other members of the group, so it is registered in zone 2, Then return back to YVR so everyone else can then enter for a Zone 1 fare.

Nah, just change the same it is simpler.

Or... buy all the single fare tickets on your outbound journey from any TVM in the system. On the way home, you just use the single-fare ticket you had before. Requires a little more planning, but it should work.

flipper316
May 11, 2017, 5:18 AM
Just remember that the single use tickets expire at the end of the day if you bought them out of the Compass Vending Machines even if you don't validate them.

ACT7
May 12, 2017, 1:40 AM
Does anyone else find it odd that YVR's domestic security priority lane shuts down at 4:30 PM? Not sure how this airport consistently finishes first every year in airport rankings. There are still times you need that silly sticker on your boarding pass just to go through the priority lane even with AC status and/or flying in J. For an airport that touts itself as a major international hub, shutting down the priority lane is a weird move. I'm yet to see that in any other Canadian airport - even as small as YWG.

SpongeG
May 12, 2017, 3:14 AM
ok thanks for the info

Cage
May 12, 2017, 9:06 PM
This will be a very interesting presentation.... and a prelude of things to come for WestJet.

As a YYC flyer, I'm worried that Calgary might get out maneuvered again on the international front.

https://www.boardoftrade.com/events/individual-events/1019-6163

A runway for growth: WestJet’s plans to connect B.C. with the world

WestJet is gearing up for an exciting new chapter of growth that has the potential to elevate the company to a truly global airline.

Earlier this month, the company announced its ambitious plans to purchase up to 20 new Boeing Dreamliner aircraft, which would allow WestJet to spread its wings and connect Canadians to long-haul destinations in Asia, South America, and Europe.

Join us on June 1 as WestJet's President & CEO, Gregg Saretsky, discusses how a truly global WestJet will generate economic opportunity across British Columbia, increase global market access, accelerate inbound tourism and create jobs for British Columbians.

Don’t miss this opportunity to hear from one of Canada’s top CEOs about growth, global expansion, and one of Western Canada’s leading business success stories.

LeftCoaster
May 12, 2017, 10:10 PM
I wouldn't worry too much, probably just pandering given his audience.

My guess is Westjet will continue to send flights from multiple Canadian cities like they did with the 767s.

Cage
May 12, 2017, 10:15 PM
Does anyone else find it odd that YVR's domestic security priority lane shuts down at 4:30 PM? Not sure how this airport consistently finishes first every year in airport rankings. There are still times you need that silly sticker on your boarding pass just to go through the priority lane even with AC status and/or flying in J. For an airport that touts itself as a major international hub, shutting down the priority lane is a weird move. I'm yet to see that in any other Canadian airport - even as small as YWG.

Yes the shuttering of Priority and Nexus lanes at 4:30pm is a unique feature of YVR. Most other places are open until 6-7pm.

CATSA contracts out pre-board security to different agencies. The following have contracts.
The following companies will continue to provide screening services:

(1) G4S Secure Solutions (Canada) Ltd. in the Pacific Region (B.C., Y.T.); contract value: $510 M;
(2) GardaWorld in the Prairies Region (Alta., Sask., Man., N.W.T); contract value: $586 M;
(3) GardaWorld in the Central Region (Ont.): contract value: $838 M;
(5) Securitas Transport Aviation Security Limited in the East Region (N.L., P.E.I., N.S., N.B., Que., Nvt.); contract value: $632 M.
http://www.catsa.gc.ca/oct18-2016

Contracts were awarded in October 2016 for a period of 5 years.

Note that GardaWorld Prairies and GardaWorld Ontario appear to be different divisions.

Each security contractor has the ability to be slightly different so long as they abide by the SOP manual.

In YVR they close the Nexus/Priority lines at 4:30pm. YVR also conducts training in the Nexus/Priority lanes after 4:30pm. They also close the lanes to complete more "random" security screenings. Basically the airport has to get through so many random security screenings per day or month, but the airport can modify the times when pax are more likely to receive a random screening. So at 5pm every second pax is "randomly" selected for additional screening. Whereas at 7am every 20th person is randomly selected.

At YYC, they are not allowed to have more than one Nexus lane open at one time in each checkpoint (and Nexus front of the line privileges at the International terminal). Additionally, the priority lane must be merged with the general lane at unfavourable rate (e.g. 3 regular to 1 priority). YYC cannot conduct training at the Nexus lane, but is permitted to put the slowest and least knowledgeable agents on the Nexus Lane. The unwritten/unspoken goal is to have pax cross the Nexus lane at the same time regardless of line.

At YYZ, they must open multiple Nexus Lanes at YYZ T1 at the peak times. Beyond the gatekeeper there are no agents assigned to the divest station at the Nexus lanes, Only one agent on the hand wand and another agent on explosives detection and content search. Only Nexus pax at the Nexus lanes.

AC strict attitude is the reason for YYZ being so different than others. AC regularly sends out the top brass to advocate with GardaWorld and CATSA.

I have on good authority that CATSA (HQ) wants to abolish Nexus Lanes with the introduction of CATSA Plus. The exception will be YYZ T1 where the GTAA has made Nexus their hill to die on.

The primary problem with the Nexus lanes for CATSA and the screening contractors: the lanes house the most experienced travelers. These travelers know the rules and complain a lot when something goes sideways. A security agent forgets a rule and the Nexus card holder will be asking for a supervisor immediately. Also there will be follow up with CATSA HQ through the complaint line. Regular travelers are unaware of the rules and easily pacified by the agent. Finally regular pax are not inclined to sweat the small complaints.

The Nexus travelers get through the lanes the quickest because the divest process is so routine. Laptop, liquids, and jacket are off and all bins filled in 20 seconds. Same thing takes 30-60 seconds for a regular traveler and they will miss something, requiring re-screening. The Nexus traveler efficiency contributes to the line being much shorter than the regular line.

Finally and probably the biggest Nexus/Priority concern, regular travelers hate the perceived special treatment and will complain about the long lines because they could not access the priority services.

casper
May 13, 2017, 3:16 AM
Yes the shuttering of Priority and Nexus lanes at 4:30pm is a unique feature of YVR. Most other places are open until 6-7pm.

CATSA contracts out pre-board security to different agencies. The following have contracts.

http://www.catsa.gc.ca/oct18-2016

Contracts were awarded in October 2016 for a period of 5 years.

Note that GardaWorld Prairies and GardaWorld Ontario appear to be different divisions.

Each security contractor has the ability to be slightly different so long as they abide by the SOP manual.

In YVR they close the Nexus/Priority lines at 4:30pm. YVR also conducts training in the Nexus/Priority lanes after 4:30pm. They also close the lanes to complete more "random" security screenings. Basically the airport has to get through so many random security screenings per day or month, but the airport can modify the times when pax are more likely to receive a random screening. So at 5pm every second pax is "randomly" selected for additional screening. Whereas at 7am every 20th person is randomly selected.

At YYC, they are not allowed to have more than one Nexus lane open at one time in each checkpoint (and Nexus front of the line privileges at the International terminal). Additionally, the priority lane must be merged with the general lane at unfavourable rate (e.g. 3 regular to 1 priority). YYC cannot conduct training at the Nexus lane, but is permitted to put the slowest and least knowledgeable agents on the Nexus Lane. The unwritten/unspoken goal is to have pax cross the Nexus lane at the same time regardless of line.

At YYZ, they must open multiple Nexus Lanes at YYZ T1 at the peak times. Beyond the gatekeeper there are no agents assigned to the divest station at the Nexus lanes, Only one agent on the hand wand and another agent on explosives detection and content search. Only Nexus pax at the Nexus lanes.

AC strict attitude is the reason for YYZ being so different than others. AC regularly sends out the top brass to advocate with GardaWorld and CATSA.

I have on good authority that CATSA (HQ) wants to abolish Nexus Lanes with the introduction of CATSA Plus. The exception will be YYZ T1 where the GTAA has made Nexus their hill to die on.

The primary problem with the Nexus lanes for CATSA and the screening contractors: the lanes house the most experienced travelers. These travelers know the rules and complain a lot when something goes sideways. A security agent forgets a rule and the Nexus card holder will be asking for a supervisor immediately. Also there will be follow up with CATSA HQ through the complaint line. Regular travelers are unaware of the rules and easily pacified by the agent. Finally regular pax are not inclined to sweat the small complaints.

The Nexus travelers get through the lanes the quickest because the divest process is so routine. Laptop, liquids, and jacket are off and all bins filled in 20 seconds. Same thing takes 30-60 seconds for a regular traveler and they will miss something, requiring re-screening. The Nexus traveler efficiency contributes to the line being much shorter than the regular line.

Finally and probably the biggest Nexus/Priority concern, regular travelers hate the perceived special treatment and will complain about the long lines because they could not access the priority services.

Two observations......

WestJet senior management needs training. Whatever AC senior management is doing in YYZ needs to be duplicated by WestJet senior management in YYC.

AC needs to train their senior people in Vancouver to the same as Toronto. The line I find silly at YVR is the International to Domestic connections lane. One more than one occasion I have used this lane and it is move slowly resulting in very tight connections. The YVR staff look at people with tight connections and send them downstairs to the regular security checkpoint except tell them to head to the priority or NEXUS lane and tell the agent they were send down from upstairs due to a tight connection.

nname
May 15, 2017, 11:45 PM
As mentioned before (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=7785993&postcount=11457), Xiamen Air is reducing YVR-XMN to 2x weekly during off-season Oct23 - Dec12.

-------

According to a Chinese press, seems like China Eastern is still interested to start some form of direct service to YVR from their XIY hub later this year...



YvR seems to have added a new Trans border gate E88 . There does not seem to be any room after E87

E85 was added and the last 3 gates are all shifted back by one... There's no jet bridge for E85 though... remote stand??

Lancaster
May 16, 2017, 3:12 AM
As mentioned before (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=7785993&postcount=11457), Xiamen Air is reducing YVR-XMN to 2x weekly during off-season Oct23 - Dec12.

-------

According to a Chinese press, seems like China Eastern is still interested to start some form of direct service to YVR from their XIY hub later this year...





E85 was added and the last 3 gates are all shifted back by one... There's no jet bridge for E85 though... remote stand??

Craig Richmond said in the annual meeting last week that they'd be bussing moving forward. Guess that means 85 is a bus gate?

teriyaki
May 16, 2017, 3:15 AM
As mentioned before (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=7785993&postcount=11457), Xiamen Air is reducing YVR-XMN to 2x weekly during off-season Oct23 - Dec12.

-------

E85 was added and the last 3 gates are all shifted back by one... There's no jet bridge for E85 though... remote stand??

I will probably be in the minority, but I would love to have a set of bus-only remote stands. :notacrook:

Maybe Westjet Lite could look into it to reduce costs with YVR :P

Jebby
May 16, 2017, 3:41 AM
I will probably be in the minority, but I would love to have a set of bus-only remote stands. :notacrook:

Maybe Westjet Lite could look into it to reduce costs with YVR :P

I don't see how it would reduce cost at an airport that has spare gate capacity.

casper
May 16, 2017, 3:41 AM
I will probably be in the minority, but I would love to have a set of bus-only remote stands. :notacrook:

Maybe Westjet Lite could look into it to reduce costs with YVR :P

another certain hard stands are going to save money for anyone at YVR. There are a lot of empty gates most of the day. It is a short period each day when it is hard to find a gate.

Gordon
May 16, 2017, 4:36 PM
The busiest time is the Asian Departure block If that was stretched in to the early evening that would spread the traffic out.

If all gates were more fully utilized throughout the day how much more capacity wold that give us?

casper
May 17, 2017, 12:20 AM
The busiest time is the Asian Departure block If that was stretched in to the early evening that would spread the traffic out.

If all gates were more fully utilized throughout the day how much more capacity wold that give us?

It provides a lot of capacility. Flow out of YVR yesterday evening. The place is half deserted in the afternoon and into the evening. There are a lot of empty gates. This even taking into account that this is the time period when most of the European flights depart.

As AC replaces older Dash flighing with Q400 and rplaces older CRJ with CRJ900 more passangers are being handled with the same number of aircraft and gates. The same holds for widebody aircraft, the 767 flying is replaced with 787 and the 777 have shifting from 9 across to 10 across layouts.

nname
May 17, 2017, 6:56 PM
The busiest time is the Asian Departure block If that was stretched in to the early evening that would spread the traffic out.

Well.. the problem is... imagine a departure to Hong Kong at 6:30pm...

YVR 1830 - 2300+1 HKG
HKG 0100 - 2000-1 YVR

... these are really bad time for connections at either ends, even worse as the time shift later and later into the evening (1am arrival and 3am departure to/from HKG!? Midnight arrival at YVR!!??) Approx 4-5pm is probably the latest departure time to still have a decent connection at both sides both directions, and this is pretty much the end of the Asian block.

The only other option is probably the late night block for longer routes (Australia, HKG, TPE, XMN, and beyond), but not everyone like those...

SpongeG
May 18, 2017, 5:18 AM
An article some here might find interesting

Alaska Air to begin service at second Seattle-area airport in 2018

Alaska Air's plan to fly Boeing Co (BA.N) 737 and Embraer (EMBR3.SA) 175 jets from Paine Field in Everett, Washington, starting in the fall of 2018 marks the first commercial service from the airfield, located 31 miles north of Seattle.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-alaska-air-group-seattle-idUSKCN18D2OL

nname
May 19, 2017, 9:23 AM
Some interesting stats for the performance of China Eastern's KMG-NKG-YVR after the first ~70 days of operation

$ (million RMB)
Operating Revenue 26.0
Operating Cost 65.8
---------------------------------
Net profit/loss -39.8
Subsidy 38.3
---------------------------------
Profit/loss w/ Subsidy -1.5

With the amount of subsidy, this is actually the best performing secondary route from NKG :shrug:

PEK-NKG-SYD over the same period is at -5.2M, CTU-NKG-LAX is at -6.3M

ACT7
May 19, 2017, 5:16 PM
Some interesting stats for the performance of China Eastern's KMG-NKG-YVR after the first ~70 days of operation

$ (million RMB)
Operating Revenue 26.0
Operating Cost 65.8
---------------------------------
Net profit/loss -39.8
Subsidy 38.3
---------------------------------
Profit/loss w/ Subsidy -1.5

With the amount of subsidy, this is actually the best performing secondary route from NKG :shrug:

PEK-NKG-SYD over the same period is at -5.2M, CTU-NKG-LAX is at -6.3M
Silly question maybe, but are all routes that heavily subsidized initially?

whatnext
May 19, 2017, 7:31 PM
delete

POCO
May 20, 2017, 4:37 AM
Silly question maybe, but are all routes that heavily subsidized initially?

I think I read that they subsidize routes of secondary cities for a set period of about two years. I'm sure people will correct me.

trofirhen
May 20, 2017, 9:03 AM
This will be a very interesting presentation.... and a prelude of things to come for WestJet.

As a YYC flyer, I'm worried that Calgary might get out maneuvered again on the international front.

https://www.boardoftrade.com/events/individual-events/1019-6163

:2cents: Yes, it is essential that somebody (preferably more than one SSPer, attend this, and try getting as much info as possible, to relate). This is the start of another burst of "big-time."

nname
May 20, 2017, 10:22 AM
I think I read that they subsidize routes of secondary cities for a set period of about two years. I'm sure people will correct me.

PEK-NKG-SYD had been subsidized since 2012, and as of now, the government is still covering 70% of the loss.

----------------

Another China Eastern news... 7 of the 11 weekly YVR-PVG will be up-gauged to 77W Aug01 to Sep17 (MU581/582)

mezzanine
May 20, 2017, 1:48 PM
Direct AC flights to DEN from YVR started May 18. twice a day in the summer, then year-round once a day.

https://www.flydenver.com/sites/default/files/Vancouver_Carousel.jpg
https://www.flydenver.com/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAIk2WRVoAQoLdD.jpg

https://twitter.com/yvrairport

LeftCoaster
May 24, 2017, 12:24 AM
Some interesting stats for the performance of China Eastern's KMG-NKG-YVR after the first ~70 days of operation

$ (million RMB)
Operating Revenue 26.0
Operating Cost 65.8
---------------------------------
Net profit/loss -39.8
Subsidy 38.3
---------------------------------
Profit/loss w/ Subsidy -1.5

With the amount of subsidy, this is actually the best performing secondary route from NKG :shrug:


I flew the route this morning, so I helped!

Anecdotal load factor was about 70-80% with dirt cheap fares.

Very pleasant experience with China Eastern though. I'd heard bad things but they were great in my eyes.

Klazu
May 24, 2017, 5:17 AM
Not sure if I like the new declaration machines at YVR. It's nice not having to fill out any paper form anymore, but they could make the interface a much more user friendly and appealling to say the least. I guess it made the experience slightly faster, but the lining up was a bit confusing.

I flew Air Canada Express from SJC. What a nice and roomy airport and a convenient connection to Silicon Valley vs. SFO. The plane was also full with lots of people connecting elsewhere. I even saw people connecting to YYZ, which doesn't seem that convenient.

POCO
May 24, 2017, 9:01 AM
I was looking at flights from YVR to HKG today. Hong Kong Airlines has some pretty cheap flights (sub $400 one way) in July and out into October there are $600 round trip flights. This is a couple hundred dollars below AC. When you look at business class it's like $2000 cheaper. I'm not sure how business class compares between AC and HX but I really like HX in economy.

I recently had a few HX flights between HKG-PVG and PEK-HKG and I was very impressed. Got a full meal for both relatively short flights, they seemed to have a couple extra inches of seat pitch vs AC's 777s(seat guru says it's the same pitch but it honestly felt like more in HX, maybe it's just a factor of the 777HD feeling a bit more cramped). The A332 I flew on was 8 across in economy which was nice. The inflight entertainment seemed on par with AC. The flight attendants were all young, pretty and efficient but rather cold. If I were flying directly back to YVR from HKG I'd be taking HX. IF (and I mean IF) HX puts the A359 on the HKG-YVR run and maintains fares that low with more economy room, I think AC may have issues on this route. At the very least they will have to lower prices.

Klazu
May 25, 2017, 12:45 AM
Yeah, HX is great for all the reasons you mentioned. Great indeed if they force AC to reduce prices as their sardine can product is not appealing, nor have their prices been.

Waders
May 25, 2017, 2:17 AM
Yeah, HX is great for all the reasons you mentioned. Great indeed if they force AC to reduce prices as their sardine can product is not appealing, nor have their prices been.
Air Canada did lower the price in sales due to the increased competition.
During the recent Mother's Day sales, you could get a round-trip flight from YVR to HKG for CAD$650.

whatnext
May 25, 2017, 4:52 AM
Some interesting stats for the performance of China Eastern's KMG-NKG-YVR after the first ~70 days of operation

$ (million RMB)
Operating Revenue 26.0
Operating Cost 65.8
---------------------------------
Net profit/loss -39.8
Subsidy 38.3
---------------------------------
Profit/loss w/ Subsidy -1.5

With the amount of subsidy, this is actually the best performing secondary route from NKG :shrug:

PEK-NKG-SYD over the same period is at -5.2M, CTU-NKG-LAX is at -6.3M

LOL, that's laughable, why even bother to throw "profit" in there? This is just another symptom of China's troubling credit bubble (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/24/business/china-downgrade-explained.html?action=click&contentCollection=Business%20Day&module=RelatedCoverage&region=EndOfArticle&pgtype=article). Build the airports, subsidize the routes.

Johnny Aussie
May 26, 2017, 8:35 AM
Saw this posted yesterday.....

Summary of June additions:

1 June: AC to FRA and NGO
8 June: AC to TPE and LGW
23 June: AC to BOS
30 June: HX to HKG

Technically, all the AC routes are resumtpions. Nevertheless quite a decent number of new international routes in just one month.

http://www.yvr.ca/en/blog/2017/craigs-corner-inaugural-season

osirisboy
May 26, 2017, 4:49 PM
Saw this posted yesterday.....

Summary of June additions:

1 June: AC to FRA and NGO
8 June: AC to TPE and LGW
23 June: AC to BOS
30 June: HX to HKG

Technically, all the AC routes are resumtpions. Nevertheless quite a decent number of new international routes in just one month.

http://www.yvr.ca/en/blog/2017/craigs-corner-inaugural-season

Resumptions? Craig says that Nagoya is a brand new destination

lubicon
May 26, 2017, 6:59 PM
Nagoya was served by Canadian Airlines IIRC so technically not a new route for Air Canada. But it is new for Rouge.

nname
May 26, 2017, 7:04 PM
Resumptions? Craig says that Nagoya is a brand new destination

Well, CP/AC flew to Nagoya Airport (now Nagoya Airfield or Nagoya-Komaki Airport) before, but not Nagoya-Centrair Airport, which only opened after AC cancelled the flight.

So technically, its a "new" destination :D

Cage
May 28, 2017, 2:24 AM
Well, CP/AC flew to Nagoya Airport (now Nagoya Airfield or Nagoya-Komaki Airport) before, but not Nagoya-Centrair Airport, which only opened after AC cancelled the flight.

So technically, its a "new" destination :D

I knew about NGO, but I never knew AC flew yvr-FRA before. When did this happen?

Johnny Aussie
May 28, 2017, 5:31 AM
I knew about NGO, but I never knew AC flew yvr-FRA before. When did this happen?

YVR-FRA is also a former CP route as was AC YVR-FRA many many years ago.....

madog222
May 30, 2017, 3:27 AM
Any ideas what AC7169 is doing? Just saw it fly over in a high bank turn quite low with a fighter jet type plane flying in formation. Promotional photoshoot?
The 787-9 is in the new livery which looks great from the ground.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA7169

teriyaki
May 30, 2017, 3:36 AM
Any ideas what AC7169 is doing? Just saw it fly over in a high bank turn quite low with a fighter jet type plane flying in formation. Promotional photoshoot?
The 787-9 is in the new livery which looks great from the ground.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA7169

You probably got it right. Let's see the evidence:

-New livery
-non-standard AC flight number
-flying an odd route not point to point
-Tailed by small plane

jmt18325
May 30, 2017, 3:39 AM
It's probably the same photo shoot plane that did the Rouge 767 shoot around Victoria. It was mistaken for a fighter jet then as well.

jmt18325
May 30, 2017, 3:41 AM
.

jmt18325
May 30, 2017, 4:43 AM
https://twitter.com/AirCanada/status/869354536045096961

https://twitter.com/AirCanada/status/869410219960520704

SpongeG
May 30, 2017, 4:54 AM
I saw that tonight, I was on the sfpr, I wondered what was going on.

Gordon
May 30, 2017, 7:57 PM
There seems to be a new D pier Gate D59 . I didn't realize anything had been added at the end of the west chevron.

nname
May 30, 2017, 8:49 PM
There seems to be a new D pier Gate D59 . I didn't realize anything had been added at the end of the west chevron.

There's also new gate D60

casper
May 31, 2017, 4:23 AM
There's also new gate D60

Is that the gate where they would do the bus to hard stands from?

vanlaw
Jun 1, 2017, 1:45 AM
Given this thread has been fairly quiet lately... Saw an interesting series of events around 5 tonight. I was sitting at my desk downtown and saw a commercial aircraft coming over burrard inlet, directly over downtown. Rarely see that. Went to FR24, and it was LH476 coming in from MUC. It looks as though the landing/takeoff direction changed as it was about to loop around and approach from the west so it had to change course so it would approach from the east (sorry... Don't know the technical terms for the runways).

At the same time I was watching that on FR24, LH493 to FRA was taking off towards the east, and presumably for the same reason (takeoff landing direction change) did a big bank to the south, looped then headed straight north.

Anyway, was interesting to see two unusual things at the same time, both LH.
http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb382/eastvan1/YVR/Screenshot_20170531-171338_zpsolxpkksg.png (http://s1203.photobucket.com/user/eastvan1/media/YVR/Screenshot_20170531-171338_zpsolxpkksg.png.html)

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb382/eastvan1/YVR/Screenshot_20170531-171119_zpsvyjbz6sw.png (http://s1203.photobucket.com/user/eastvan1/media/YVR/Screenshot_20170531-171119_zpsvyjbz6sw.png.html)

Gordon
Jun 1, 2017, 5:00 PM
According to Wikipedia gates D59 & E85 are bus gates to remote stands

I didn't realize YVR was busy enough to require remote stands

YVR Bruce
Jun 1, 2017, 5:15 PM
At the YVR AGM a couple of weeks ago, the CEO said the 2017 Summer peak would be 2 (jetway) gates short.

I trust YVR has made provision for the closest possible access to the immigration hall, allowing the shortest possible walk. E85 would be ok if that is isolated from the US preclearance area. D59 looks like a max walk - ok only for people like me who enjoy seeing what is tied up at the dock..

FRA does this to the point where it is preferable to have a remote gate, as the bus connection is at the heart of the terminal (e.g. on landing you get dropped close to the passport counter). So for those who don't delight in a working bus tour of the ramp, at least they get that perk.

officedweller
Jun 2, 2017, 12:21 AM
Any ideas what AC7169 is doing? Just saw it fly over in a high bank turn quite low with a fighter jet type plane flying in formation. Promotional photoshoot?
The 787-9 is in the new livery which looks great from the ground.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA7169

Yeah, I saw them Monday night, too.

Found this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBCHvSoXoAAQ1s_.jpg
PHOTO FLIGHT Air Canada's newest Boeing 787-9 heading out from Vancouver for a photo/video shoot with Wolfe Air Learjet #AC7169 📷@AirCanada pic.twitter.com/XYxUrwQLIH
https://twitter.com/hashtag/AC7169?src=hash

Johnny Aussie
Jun 2, 2017, 4:02 AM
http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2017/april/traffic-update_april-2017.pdf?la=en

Domestic up 10.3%
International up 15.2%

---------

Total pax count up over 209,000 compared to April 2016.

---------

Int'l breakdown by sector:

Transborder up 13.9%
Asia Pacific up 18.2%
Europe up 4.5%
Misc Int'l up 27.2%

osirisboy
Jun 2, 2017, 4:20 AM
I apologize if this has been asked before but what would fall under "miscellaneous" and is transborder just the US?

Good to see Europe stop its loses

Gordon
Jun 2, 2017, 4:03 PM
accordng to Airliners.net YVR is using De-icing stands as hardstand locations.

I suspect for D59 & D60

Cage
Jun 2, 2017, 4:30 PM
Here is the Business in Vancouver article on yesterday's Saretsky speech to VBoT:https://www.biv.com/article/2017/6/westjet-seeks-government-permission-fly-china/

Some quotes from Biv

WestJet has filed for government approval to fly to China, CEO Gregg Saretsky told the Greater Vancouver Board of Trade (GVBOT) June 1.
.....
Executives had gone on record telling Business in Vancouver that flights between Vancouver and China would be a “natural” were the airline to buy those planes.

Curiously, Saretsky would not specify which Canadian cities his airline would first launch China-bound flights if it gained all necessary approvals.

“We’re going to keep that close to our vests,” he said. “Obviously, it is competitive and we wouldn’t want anybody else to do anything to maneuver their own capacity around to make our entry more difficult than it would otherwise be,” he said.

He would not speculate on how long the approval process could be but he said that it is possible that it could take until 2019.

Note: 2019 is when Beijing Daxing Airport is expected to open. It is widely expected there will be no new frequencies on the bilateral until 2019.

Saretsky showed a map of the world to the GVBOT audience with potential future routes stemming out of cities, such as Vancouver, to Sydney, Australia; Auckland, New Zealand; and New Delhi, India.

Saretsky would not reveal what non-Chinese long-haul routes he would prioritize but said the key would be for the route to make money.

Cage
Jun 2, 2017, 5:13 PM
According to Wikipedia gates D59 & E85 are bus gates to remote stands

I didn't realize YVR was busy enough to require remote stands

E85 is reasonably close to both USCBP and CBSA that its okay for a bus gate.

D59 however is the worst possible location. I agree with the poster upthread, what make FRA bus gates the preferable option is that they are close to customs and arrival facilities.

Ideally YVR should have created a bus terminal where the ULD container yard is beside gate 53. that would be a n awesome location. Extra points if they make arrival corridor into CBSA so that pax don't have to climb mount Olympus just to see the totem poles.

trofirhen
Jun 2, 2017, 5:15 PM
I wish Westjet would take the plunge and do Vancouver >< São Paulo.
Several years back, Johnny mentioned how surprised and pleased he was at the level of O&D traffic between Vancouver and Brazil.

nname
Jun 2, 2017, 6:51 PM
According to Wikipedia gates D59 & E85 are bus gates to remote stands

I didn't realize YVR was busy enough to require remote stands

So, AC's flight to FRA starts today (departs 12:25pm). Remote stand in action?

12:25 D59 CZ378 Guangzhou
13:20 D59 MU582 Shanghai

Seems like AC's new flight to NGO and resumption of KIX tomorrow, and the launch of TPE next week would push more planes into remote stand

casper
Jun 2, 2017, 8:20 PM
So, AC's flight to FRA starts today (departs 12:25pm). Remote stand in action?

12:25 D59 CZ378 Guangzhou
13:20 D59 MU582 Shanghai

Seems like AC's new flight to NGO and resumption of KIX tomorrow, and the launch of TPE next week would push more planes into remote stand

Must make for some interesting negotiat ions to see who goes to the remote stand. Would have thought would be the smallest aircraft.

Gordon
Jun 2, 2017, 9:04 PM
WE may even see Gate E85 remote stand go into use.

Vagabond
Jun 3, 2017, 2:26 AM
Here is the Business in Vancouver article on yesterday's Saretsky speech to VBoT:https://www.biv.com/article/2017/6/westjet-seeks-government-permission-fly-china/

Some quotes from Biv


Saretsky showed a map of the world to the GVBOT audience with potential future routes stemming out of cities, such as Vancouver, to Sydney, Australia; Auckland, New Zealand; and New Delhi, India.

Saretsky would not reveal what non-Chinese long-haul routes he would prioritize but said the key would be for the route to make money.

Personally, I'd love to see WS add DEL out of YVR, even at the expense of the current AC flight. Add in a codeshare agreement with one of India's better budget carriers (ideally Indigo, but even Spicejet) and you could connect to a substantial amount of transfer traffic on both ends.

On another (somewhat related) note, I had my first opportunity to fly with one of the ME3 a couple of weeks ago (Etihad from ORD-AUH-BOM). It's definitely a quality airline, even in Economy, and their massive upcoming new terminal (http://www.adac.ae/english/mtp/) in AUH looks very impressive (at least from the outside). The transfer experience at the current digs in AUH is more than adequate, although not nearly as nice as YVR. I know we're not likely to see EY at YVR anytime soon, but they would be a welcome addition if/when the bilateral is renegotiated and they decide to strike out beyond YYZ. They also seem to differ from Emirates in the model of flying mega-jets to every possible airport, as EY only currently serve 6 routes with their A380s and have just 2 more on order (according to their inflight magazine).

mezzanine
Jun 3, 2017, 2:55 AM
AC to nagoya and FRA from YVR today :cheers:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBQG2BHV0AAJtT7.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBQlQeTV0AA1-kM.jpg

https://twitter.com/yvrairport

mezzanine
Jun 3, 2017, 3:03 AM
skimming the audio from the WS BoT talk today:

-YYC's call-to-gate has been disbanded
-no partnering with an intl alliance so far. all airlines are potential partners except * alliance ones.
-lots of talking up of a potential south america to asia on WS's part, with reference to this slide. lots of caveats about no firm canadian hub yet though.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBQ0QRcUAAA1pga.jpg

https://twitter.com/BoardofTrade

trofirhen
Jun 3, 2017, 5:34 AM
Look at that "Potential WestJet route map" Any way of posting it here for a clearer view of it?
If not where could I find it? Tried Google, but couldn't.

LeftCoaster
Jun 5, 2017, 9:24 PM
http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2017/april/traffic-update_april-2017.pdf?la=en

Domestic up 10.3%
International up 15.2%

---------

Total pax count up over 209,000 compared to April 2016.

---------

Int'l breakdown by sector:

Transborder up 13.9%
Asia Pacific up 18.2%
Europe up 4.5%
Misc Int'l up 27.2%

Not a single comment on this, bizarre. This is just nuts growth!

Europe the only sign of weakness, and at 4.5% most airports would consider this good growth not weakness. Transborder is a real shocker, as is domestic.

WE may even see Gate E85 remote stand go into use.

I was at YVR yesterday and saw China Eastern using the de-icing pads to load up. Truly a weird site to see at YVR. China southern was out there too although it may have just been resting.

LeftCoaster
Jun 5, 2017, 9:25 PM
A spotter I follow on Instagram let slip that Qantas is looking to fly YVR-SYD daily starting next year on the 787. Not sure how reliable this is but he does work at the airport so it could be something.

nname
Jun 5, 2017, 11:38 PM
I was at YVR yesterday and saw China Eastern using the de-icing pads to load up. Truly a weird site to see at YVR. China southern was out there too although it may have just been resting.

Seems like MU582 (YVR-PVG) and CZ378 (MEX-YVR-CAN) are always the two flights that uses remote gate. Unlike other international flights, these flights never shown an assigned gate until late in the morning (until other flights had been finalized, I guess?) And if there is no spare bridge available, one will both will be assigned to gate D59. The early afternoon LGW departure from Air Transat also have no gate assignment initially on some days... I wonder if that's the third flight that would use the remote gate, especially when it goes (almost) daily starting next week...

Surprisingly the gate assignment is mostly the same as 2016 (http://www.skyscraperpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7571867&postcount=9912), except that gate 75 is now solely used for US departures, and AC's new flights are kicking CZ and TS out of their original gates... FI's move to earlier afternoon also seems to have a higher priority in gate assignment too (thus kick MU out)

All gates in D and E wing are being used except for... E91 and E93... Are these unavailable? I wonder if they could've move some CRJs there and free up gat 75 and 76 for international use... Otherwise looking at this, I'm sure we'll see gate D60 and E85 in action later in the summer...

Gordon
Jun 6, 2017, 2:11 AM
Ac Uses E93 from time to time. It does seem that gates 90 -92 are only being used by the regional jets.

During the main Asian departure block they should focus all rJ traffic tthe East apron transboarder hold room gates 90 -92 feeing up the swing gates for smaller wide bodies. E93 is a graoud load position

Does any one know were the remote stand connected to gate E 85 is?

Alpine
Jun 7, 2017, 12:50 AM
Looks like the geopolitical rift between Qatar and the other GCC countries will push the chances of a future YVR-DOH route further into "never going to happen" fantasyland. Look how YYZ-IST traffic (and all global traffic to/from IST as a matter of fact) plummeted after the coup attempt against Erdogan.

Why is it that the world's fastest growing airports (DXB, AUH, DOH, IST) are located in countries that have either gotten into diplomatic spats with Canada (UAE) or are on the wrong end of a geopolitical fistfight (Qatar, Turkey)? The Middle East will be the world's next big economic hub, I'm excited to see what Expo 2020 in Dubai will reveal. Plus being 4 hours' flight time from a third of the world's population (and 8 hours from two-thirds) could be one of those X-factors that increases Vancouver's international business potential to the next level.

YVR-MENASA is already really hard to justify, they're long, low-yield routes (not much demand for business travellers or O&D) that can only really be operated by a handful of aircraft (77W, 789, 359/3510, 388). Obviously neither AC nor its *A partners want to see the ME3 double daily bring 77Ws (350+ seats!) and completely consume TATL traffic to/from Vancouver like how the ME3 wiped out QF's TCON market share in Australia. The recent unrest in Turkey and Qatar will make a YVR-MENASA route even less likely.

Furthermore, the ME3 renegotiating bilaterals with AC/Transport Canada are predicated on the ME3 demanding unlimited slots anywhere in Canada--i.e., unlimited YYZ-DXB/YYZ-AUH/YYZ-DOH. AC56/57 recently upgauged to a 77W from a 789, I don't think AC would be growing its YYZ-MENASA market nearly as much if EK got 3x daily 388s + 5x weekly 77Ws to DXB. Similarly, AC/Transport Canada limiting ME3 service to YVR has allowed AC and its *A partners to really build out YVR's destination network. It was a miracle we got YVR-DEL at all; a few years ago we didn't even have nonstop flights to Paris or San Diego, and had AC's ancient 763s/CA and MU equally ancient 332s flying YVR-PEK and YVR-PVG.

Unless AC is willing to start a YVR-AUH rouge flight, or QR/EY has some extra 789s/359s to spare for a YVR-DOH or YVR-AUH flight, there will be no--the economics don't work in favour no matter which way you look at it. I wish the ME3 were willing to accept limited slots to YYZ in exchange for slots yo YVR, YVR-DXB on an Emirates A380 would be paradise compared to the cramped-ass high-density AC 77W on the YVR-YYZ-DXB route, or flying on BA/LH's dinosaur 744s (seriously, why isn't BA A380 service to YVR year round?! And why hasn't LH brought the 388 or even a 74H to YVR?). The upside like I said before is that the lack of ME3 presence has allowed YVR to flourish into a huge AC/*A hub. Now if only there were nonstop YVR-SIN and YVR-SDJ (Sendai)...I'd even fly Rouge for that.

I want to talk numbers for a minute. A large chunk of EK's 2x daily 77W service to SEA is to shuttle PNW travellers going to India. That's ~5000 seats/weekly, year-round. AC72/73 is supposed to sop up some of that demand, right?Maybe not. AC's flight is 3x weekly; the 789s have 298 seats. That's about 900 seats/weekly; Sea-Tac has more than 5 and a half times the service to MENASA that YVR has, not even mentioning that AC72/73 is limited to late October-early April (which like I said is the peak of O&D demand; the hot weather of the pre-monsoon period in May/June damps down India traffic and the monsoon is the low point of the travel season) I don't have numbers to back it up, but is it possible that EK227/228 and EK229/230 are siphoning YVR-India traffic, even with the weak loonie (making it cheaper to fly out of Canada) and the operation of AC72/73? The only other explanation I can think of is that the double daily 77W SEA-DXB are also used to shuttle maintenance parts from Boeing factories in Western Washington to EK's DXB-based 77W base.

By the way, I was at the airport last Thursday, and around midday I happened to come across KLM's check in desk. In line were a fair few Indians for the KL682 flight to Amsterdam that left later in the afternoon. Obviously not as many as there might have been a few months prior, since it's the blisteringly hot pre-monsoon period in north India, but it looks like KLM/AF are competing hard with the mainland Chinese carriers for low-season YVR-India traffic. Recently KLM has emerged with the cheapest off-season fares to Delhi, undercutting Lufthansa and the *A partners (AC854/AI116 via LHR or AC116/AC56 via YYZ). Well, not as cheap as the Chinese carriers but would you really want to subject yourself to transiting in Shanghai or Guangzhou just to save money? Especially considering the onward flights from China to India are consistently, horrendously late. I'd rather fly KLM and get the free stopover in Amsterdam.

It's amazing how CX's iron grip on the YVR-India route is now in tatters; DEL used to be the most popular onward destination for YVR-HKG pax, and HKG was also the most popular connecting hub for YVR-India pax; then LHR emerged as a competitor, followed by FRA, and then the Chinese carriers undercut the European carriers, giving them a huge chunk of the market (many pax to India fly in families so small differences in ticket prices add up--YVR-India pax are very price-sensitive). Now AC and LH seem to be positioning themselves as the pricier "anti-China Southern" (i.e. you pay more so you don't have to transit in the zoo that is Guangzhou), with KLM/AF striking a balance between cost and service (pity KL682/683 is only 5x weekly).

trofirhen
Jun 7, 2017, 1:41 AM
The only possibility that crosses my mind for YVR ><MENASA is Teheran. It's been talked about by Air Canada, too, and Iran just re-elected a moderate leader, which takes
off some of the political heat - barring any terrorist acts. Incidentally, DBX is almost EXACTLY 180° Longitude from YVR; that's halfway around the world. So to go on from there to India is like looping backward around the globe.
That renders the Gulf States to be the geographical limit in that regard, but of course many people want to try EK or QT, and if they have seat sales the extra flying time would be worth it.

nname
Jun 7, 2017, 2:03 AM
EK SEA-DXB had been cut to 1x daily starting... 5 days ago

Gordon
Jun 7, 2017, 3:05 AM
I Don't mind not having Emirates @ YVR . I would think India & South Eat Asia Through our various Asian destinations would be much better.

Can the D]\E swing gates hadle larger wide bodies or Just 767's & a 330's
\Gates 90-96 only see around 9 flights During the Asian departure block, There seems to more than enough room to push more transboarder flights to that part of the terminal

Hot Rod
Jun 7, 2017, 6:13 AM
I was going to mention that ME3 has cut flights to USA, including SEA.

Likely, the twin flights were necessary not so much demand but moreso for weight restriction due to Boeing's Spare Division (which is near SEA facility).

Remember that ME3 competes at SEA with DL who has been trying tooth and nail to establish SEA as a APAC gateway with questionable success - and DL @ SEA has been YVRs competition when it comes to SEA Int'l (and again, even that's debatable if there's been any affect on YVR, particularly when you see huge gains YoY in Tx border and Canada domestic and huge APAC growth at YVR).

teriyaki
Jun 7, 2017, 7:09 AM
With the dollar the way it is now, I would presume that cross border flying is significantly reduced vs years of past. Bellingham I still see grabbing some marketshare for the leisuire travellers but I really don't see someone making the trek to Sea-Tac anymore. The cost of the airfare would have to be hugely different for anything to even begin to make sense and thats before factoring in the time and convenience factors. Sea-tac is a complete non-issue for YVR competition at this point in time.

SpongeG
Jun 7, 2017, 7:30 AM
Alaska will start flying out of the airport at everett and that's a lot closer than sea tac, its just passed the outlet mall really

excel
Jun 7, 2017, 7:46 AM
Paine Field is south of Everett and takes about an hour longer to get to compared to Bellingham.

connect2source
Jun 7, 2017, 12:27 PM
Only 16 flights / day planned for Paine Field so far. Allegiant has just expressed interest in flying out of Paine as well as Alaska.

trofirhen
Jun 7, 2017, 1:27 PM
Sounds like TAP Air Portugal is looking at going to Toronto and possibly Montreal. That would make a great airline into Vancouver. They offer some interesting connections into North Africa and southern Europe from Lisbon. However its probably unlikely.

Even more unlikely would be to attract them to Vancouver as a stop over between Lisbon and Macao. The operate the Lisbon to Macca flight for a very short time many many years ago, however it flew the other direction over Russia.

Agreed that TAP Air Portugal might make a great airline into Vancouver, but I doubt they'll ever be granted landing rights here, so you might as well forget it.
Sorry. I think we're stuck with what we have as Trans-Atlantic for another decade:(

I agree it is very unlikely we are even on their radar screen. They would be a great addition.

I read recently that the largest unserved destination to Europe from YVR to Europe is BCN. That might be (in fact I'm sure would be) a great summer seasonal route (too bad Norwegian, outside the EU, can't do that one, as they are establishing a Barcelona hub.)
* Also, I read that the largest unserved Transborder US destination is ... MIA, with BOS coming in at second place in unserved destinations. Would at least Miami be right for the picking?

Prometheus
Jun 7, 2017, 2:48 PM
For any of you number-crunching airport nerds, what do you think the probability of YVR breaking 24 million in 2017 is?

mezzanine
Jun 7, 2017, 3:04 PM
my non-expert's view on YVR and MENASA/ME3 has changed over the past 1-2 years. IMO not having the ME3 at YVR has really paid off in route development for YVR as a hub, esp with AC and the chinese/taiwanese carriers.

india used to be the key factor for the ME3 at YVR with its price and connections to secondary cities, but i'm not sure it is anymore with AC new (seasonal) service, to DEL and price competition from the chinese/taiwanese carriers.

no hard data, but i'm unsure how the new laptop ban for the ME3 is affecting the high end.

i'm not sure how strong O+D traffic is to africa and the ME, and most destinations are a non-onerous 1 stop flight from europe. aside from price, i am unsure what the ME3 can bring and if you have not structured yourself as a LCC i am unsure how sustainable a business plan that is (https://www.ft.com/content/757df8b0-4760-11e7-8d27-59b4dd6296b8).

Canadian74
Jun 7, 2017, 4:04 PM
AC's DEL service is extremely limited, seasonal and only 3 weekly.

Emirates also flies to way more destinations in India from DXB than AC ever could from Canada. (yes there is Star partner AI but I don't know how well the connections work with them. AI's domestic market share has plummeted. many would just prefer to connect in dxb and fly in a nice Emirates A380 or 777 all the way).

mezzanine
Jun 7, 2017, 7:36 PM
I suspect O+D traffic/commercially viable traffic from YVR to india is seasonal, price sensitive and weighted towards north inida/Punjab/delhi. I can see how moving AC's DEL service to year round would be a big hurdle. from YVR I can see jet airways via KLM/AMS providing 1 stop service to secondary indian cities.

any benefit of ME3 service from YVR to secondary cities in india catering to smaller O+D markets I think would be outweighed by the pressure it would put on TATL flights and YVR-hub building, especially the A++ JV.


random google flight searching is illuminating - SEA-DEL flights in summer are comparable in price with YVR-DEL flights but with many choices hubbing in YVR via CZ/ MU. emirates flights aren't coming near to prices offered by Chinese carriers to DEL.