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nname
Aug 1, 2017, 9:56 PM
24? I say bring on 25 million. :cheers:

Get to construction on the darn International Terminal expansion and US Terminal!!

They still haven't used gate D60 and E85 yet, and D48 doesn't really get that much use either :D

D59 is being used every day since mid-June, and there seems to be about 5 international / us arrival using D49, though...

Hot Rod
Aug 2, 2017, 2:33 AM
24.4m, 25m not too much difference.

I think it can be done, more busy in the slow winter alone could. Also, didn't we beat 22m last year? (Didn't we come in at 23m?).

With the additions and expansions, I'm sticking with 25m.

thenoflyzone
Aug 2, 2017, 12:42 PM
24.4m, 25m not too much difference.

I think it can be done, more busy in the slow winter alone could. Also, didn't we beat 22m last year? (Didn't we come in at 23m?).

With the additions and expansions, I'm sticking with 25m.

2016 saw 22.3 million passengers.

I think growth at YYZ, YUL and YVR will slow down in the next few years. Air Canada's international expansion phase is almost complete with the majority of the dreamliners delivered. Chinese carrriers can no longer expand service in Canada, and that will impact YVR the most.

Total widebody fleet at both AC and Rouge will only increase by 3 (from 95 to 98) between 2017 and 2018. The 10 B767s still at mainline today will dwindle down to 5 in 2018, and will disappear entirely in the early years of the next decade.

Next comes the delivery of the MAX, the retirement of the older A320's and the delivery of the CSeries in 2019 to replace the E190s and A319s. AC has 51 aircraft with the leases that expire in the next 3 years. They could keep those leases for an expansion, just like then can get rid of them with the delivery of new metal, keeping overall expansion to a minimum. It is not yet clear what AC will do.

Either way, I think overall Y.O.Y increases of nearly 10% for the Canadian big 3 is over after this year.

casper
Aug 2, 2017, 1:15 PM
2016 saw 22.3 million passengers.

I think growth at YYZ, YUL and YVR will slow down in the next few years. Air Canada's international expansion phase is almost complete with the majority of the dreamliners delivered. Chinese carrriers can no longer expand service in Canada, and that will impact YVR the most.

Total widebody fleet at both AC and Rouge will only increase by 3 (from 95 to 98) between 2017 and 2018. The 10 B767s still at mainline today will dwindle down to 5 in 2018, and will disappear entirely in the early years of the next decade.

Next comes the delivery of the MAX, the retirement of the older A320's and the delivery of the CSeries in 2019 to replace the E190s and A319s.

The other factor that has added quite a bit to the numbers has been Air Canada switching the 777 fleet from 9 across to 10 across. Without adding a single aircraft that has been a fair increase in the number of seats available on any given route. I don't think they can find a way of stuffing more people in the same aircraft they way they have done over the past two years.

Hopfully AC exercises some of the option they have on more 787.

Gordon
Aug 2, 2017, 2:24 PM
The 2 D\E swing gates are rarely being used for international flights & gates E90-92 are getting lot of use including some main line flights So E 85 has not been needed as of yet .

I wonder why Alaska always ground loads when regular gates are available throughout most of the year?

LeftCoaster
Aug 2, 2017, 9:39 PM
24.4m, 25m not too much difference.

I think it can be done, more busy in the slow winter alone could. Also, didn't we beat 22m last year? (Didn't we come in at 23m?).

With the additions and expansions, I'm sticking with 25m.

25 million would require growth of over 12% this year. Given that half way through the year we have seen growth of 8.4% to date that would mean the rest of the year would need to see growth of over 15.5% every month. That's not going to happen.

I think growth at YYZ, YUL and YVR will slow down in the next few years. Air Canada's international expansion phase is almost complete with the majority of the dreamliners delivered. Chinese carrriers can no longer expand service in Canada, and that will impact YVR the most.

I think AC will end up exercising their options for more dreamliners. Their growth seems to have been well received and with oil showing no signs of a meaningful increase they should be able to continue their growth playing at the lower end of the margins.

Growth will slow in the next year or two as there is a gap in deliveries but I think it will pick back up again.

Also, the Chinese bilateral will be renegotiated, its just a question of when. We may see a scenario where ACs growth slows, Chinese growth picks up, then AC growth picks up after that resulting in a very short slowdown period.


Next comes the delivery of the MAX, the retirement of the older A320's and the delivery of the CSeries in 2019 to replace the E190s and A319s. AC has 51 aircraft with the leases that expire in the next 3 years. They could keep those leases for an expansion, just like then can get rid of them with the delivery of new metal, keeping overall expansion to a minimum. It is not yet clear what AC will do.

The new Boeing and Cseries' are replacing generally slightly smaller aircraft on average so we should still see some growth here as frames are being increased even if leases are not renewed. Cseries should really be a hit in YVR too, good for a lot of the transcons that are just a little too long and thin for a 320.

LeftCoaster
Aug 3, 2017, 12:09 AM
http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2017/june/june-2017_traffic_update.pdf?la=en

Relatively poor numbers for YVR this month. Looks like a lot of added capacity is not being absorbed.

Asia seats for example are up around 17-20% but pax are only up 11.8%. Loads seem to be down.

Europe/London on the other hand is up 4% in seats and 4% in PAX so loads seem stable which is good.

Highlights:

Overall up 9.1% to 1,996,395

Domestic up 4.3% to 1,027,813
Ttl Int'l up 10.7% to 1,121,227

International breakdown:
Transborder up 11.8%
Asia Pacific up 11.8%
Europe up 4.8%
Misc Int'l up 19.4%

This drops 2017 year to date growth to 8.4%

osirisboy
Aug 3, 2017, 2:54 AM
June is actually 2,149,040. Not 1,996,395, I think that's mays number

CareerShow
Aug 3, 2017, 5:12 AM
Anyone have any idea if AC and United are ending codeshare on YVR to Denver?

nname
Aug 3, 2017, 6:26 AM
Air New Zealand expands Vancouver service to 8x weekly during winter (for 2 weeks) and up to daily next summer. New flight on Saturday:

NZ020 AKL1645 – 0850YVR 772 6
NZ021 YVR2100 – 0800+2AKL 772 6


http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/274113/air-new-zealand-expands-vancouver-service-from-jan-2018/

Lancaster
Aug 3, 2017, 6:07 PM
http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2017/june/june-2017_traffic_update.pdf?la=en

Relatively poor numbers for YVR this month. Looks like a lot of added capacity is not being absorbed.

LOL I mean didn't YVR add Phoenix, Denver (double daily), Nagoya, Frankfurt, Taipei, LGW, Boston, and Hong Kong all inside eight weeks? That's a boat load of new services with barely any time to absorb. I'd be concerned if the trend continues over the next 3-6 months as those new routes start to mature.

Still good to see double digit growth in some sectors!

thenoflyzone
Aug 3, 2017, 7:34 PM
China Eastern reduces PVG-YVR from 11x to 9x weekly this winter for about 7 weeks. They are also reducing ORD, HNL and JFK. Sign of over capacity in winter from China to North America.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/274122/china-eastern-w17-north-america-service-changes/

LeftCoaster
Aug 3, 2017, 7:41 PM
I think those are typical seasonal reductions?

Will be interesting if they keep a 777 on it at all during the winter. MU 77W summer service started 2 days ago and it's a sharp look.

LeftCoaster
Aug 3, 2017, 7:43 PM
Air New Zealand expands Vancouver service to 8x weekly during winter (for 2 weeks) and up to daily next summer. New flight on Saturday:

NZ020 AKL1645 – 0850YVR 772 6
NZ021 YVR2100 – 0800+2AKL 772 6


http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/274113/air-new-zealand-expands-vancouver-service-from-jan-2018/

Word on A.net is that this route is going 787-9 daily year round soon. Would be a nice boost.

I still wish NZ would move their AKL-LAX-LHR to AKL-YVR-LHR. Would be a much better visa wise for most kiwis and help them grow their YVR ops.

Canadian74
Aug 3, 2017, 8:32 PM
Their 789 has less seats than the 772, but if it means the route will be daily year round then that's a fair deal

Johnny Aussie
Aug 3, 2017, 9:43 PM
I think those are typical seasonal reductions?

Will be interesting if they keep a 777 on it at all during the winter. MU 77W summer service started 2 days ago and it's a sharp look.

Overall service reduces to 12 weekly from 14 per week for that short period as YVR-NKG-KMG remains 3 weekly year-round

LeftCoaster
Aug 4, 2017, 5:31 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BXWZkehhDMj/?hl=en&taken-by=yvrairport

YVR's twitter saying that the total NZ increases will be about 20% given that a frequency is being added to nearly every period. Pretty solid!

Overall service reduces to 12 weekly from 14 per week for that short period as YVR-NKG-KMG remains 3 weekly year-round

And that's the same reduction as last winter correct?

Hot Rod
Aug 7, 2017, 8:26 AM
My bad all, I thought we hit 23m in 2016 and that the 8+%
growth that we've been seeing so far would surely bring us to 25m.


Anyway, 24m+ is still very nice. :tup:

25 million would require growth of over 12% this year. Given that half way through the year we have seen growth of 8.4% to date that would mean the rest of the year would need to see growth of over 15.5% every month. That's not going to happen.



I think AC will end up exercising their options for more dreamliners. Their growth seems to have been well received and with oil showing no signs of a meaningful increase they should be able to continue their growth playing at the lower end of the margins.

Growth will slow in the next year or two as there is a gap in deliveries but I think it will pick back up again.

Also, the Chinese bilateral will be renegotiated, its just a question of when. We may see a scenario where ACs growth slows, Chinese growth picks up, then AC growth picks up after that resulting in a very short slowdown period.



The new Boeing and Cseries' are replacing generally slightly smaller aircraft on average so we should still see some growth here as frames are being increased even if leases are not renewed. Cseries should really be a hit in YVR too, good for a lot of the transcons that are just a little too long and thin for a 320.

stiffdeadman
Aug 11, 2017, 3:14 AM
Perhaps something that may have a minor affect on YVR, if it's even marketed up here. United has announced that they will be joining Alaska in offering flights out of Paine Field. They will offer a total of 6 flights per day from Everett to Denver and San Francisco. No break down was given how the 6 will be divided. So with Alaska's 9 flights, that's already a total of 15 per day. With 2 gates the terminal is almost at capacity before opening.

This could be an option for people like myself who live very close to the border and have Nexus. Takes me an hour and 10 minutes to get to Everett. Approx an hour to get to YVR depending on how jammed the tunnel is. And no doubt the flights in Everett will be cheaper, as everything is more expensive in Canada. Not to mention parking is guaranteed to be cheaper and just the overall time saved departing from a small airport could be very enticing.

mezzanine
Aug 11, 2017, 4:51 AM
^i dunno if PAE would make a significant impact on YVR, even with the united flights. the past ~ 6 years show the ups and downs of BLI chasing price-sensitive canadian travellers. Some routes within the USA from SEA/BLI will always be cheaper versus YVR, especially on american LCCs but YVR is surprisingly competitive against some US destinations. (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=87953&page=584).

IMO it will put pressure on YVR if the CAD is really good but will otherwise make minimal difference, esp if PAE continues to have gate/infrastructure constraints.

http://i.imgur.com/7tYM0Zc.png


from twoNeurons (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=87953&page=584)

trofirhen
Aug 11, 2017, 5:22 PM
Can one assume that all these prices on both sides of the border have been converted and standardized into either $CAD or $US ?

Lancaster
Aug 14, 2017, 4:32 AM
Perhaps something that may have a minor affect on YVR, if it's even marketed up here. United has announced that they will be joining Alaska in offering flights out of Paine Field. They will offer a total of 6 flights per day from Everett to Denver and San Francisco. No break down was given how the 6 will be divided. So with Alaska's 9 flights, that's already a total of 15 per day. With 2 gates the terminal is almost at capacity before opening.

I wouldn't sweat it too much. It looks like United is probably (other than AC) the largest US-bound carrier at YVR. And they're both Star Alliance and recent news suggests they're looking to work together more on cross-border travel. (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-27/air-canada-hopes-to-resuscitate-cross-border-venture-with-united)

Johnny Aussie
Aug 17, 2017, 11:41 PM
YVR has shown enormous growth from 2013 - 2016. Almost 1,000,000 more passengers in 2016 compared to 2013.
YYZ also approx 1,000,000 more during the same period. YYC and YEG both showed significant declines.

YVR almost 4,000,000 in 2016!

http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a26?lang=eng&id=4010039

Just need to manipulate the tables to get full data.

Details by route:

http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a26?lang=eng&retrLang=eng&id=4010059&&pattern=&stByVal=1&p1=1&p2=38&tabMode=dataTable&csid=

Some very significant growth in some markets....

Look at BOS, ORD, LAX, NYC, MCO, PSP, SAN, SFO, SAN and IAD to name a few...

There were only 4 YVR-USA markets that showed declines between 2015 and 2016 but even they were insignificant.

LeftCoaster
Aug 18, 2017, 8:10 PM
I guess it's time to dust off the ol route calculator I used a year or so back.

These were my old extrapolated estimates based off 2016 transborder growth rates:
http://i.imgur.com/4lqsKAH.png?1

I'm guessing it's still going to be pretty accurate, with a few tweeks here and there.

ACT7
Aug 19, 2017, 3:56 AM
YVR has shown enormous growth from 2013 - 2016. Almost 1,000,000 more passengers in 2016 compared to 2013.
YYZ also approx 1,000,000 more during the same period. YYC and YEG both showed significant declines.

YVR almost 4,000,000 in 2016!

http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a26?lang=eng&id=4010039

Just need to manipulate the tables to get full data.

Details by route:

http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a26?lang=eng&retrLang=eng&id=4010059&&pattern=&stByVal=1&p1=1&p2=38&tabMode=dataTable&csid=

Some very significant growth in some markets....

Look at BOS, ORD, LAX, NYC, MCO, PSP, SAN, SFO, SAN and IAD to name a few...

There were only 4 YVR-USA markets that showed declines between 2015 and 2016 but even they were insignificant.
Hasn't transborder traffic at YYZ increased by about 2.2 million between 2013 and 2016?

https://www.torontopearson.com/uploadedFiles/GTAA/Content/About_GTAA/Statistics/June%202017%20Passenger%20Summary.pdf

Or are you talking O&D only?

Johnny Aussie
Aug 19, 2017, 7:33 AM
Hasn't transborder traffic at YYZ increased by about 2.2 million between 2013 and 2016?

https://www.torontopearson.com/uploadedFiles/GTAA/Content/About_GTAA/Statistics/June%202017%20Passenger%20Summary.pdf

Or are you talking O&D only?

The source I presented is O&D only.

Comparing 2016 to 2013:

YYZ grew by 1,024,947 up 15.4%
YVR grew by 958,857 up 32.2%
YUL grew by 344,939 up 13.1%
YYC decreased by 130,906 down 5.3%
YEG decreased by 246,708 down 18.0%

TTL 2016 O&D journeys (inbound and outbound)

YYZ 7,662,569
YVR 3,939,852
YUL 2,986,810
YYC 2,351,496
YEG 1,125,763

YVR is now almost 1,000,000 ahead of YUL and 1.6M ahead of YYC.
In 2013 YVR was only about 340,000 ahead of YUL and 500,000 ahead of YYC.

With 2017 growth YTD I would expect the gaps to widen even further.

YYZ will continue to be in a league of its own.

Canadian74
Aug 20, 2017, 5:29 PM
Is the big announcement of a new airline at YVR still coming?

trofirhen
Aug 20, 2017, 6:21 PM
Is the big announcement of a new airline at YVR still coming?

That's what I'm waiting for..... that and the new "game changing, ground breaking" destination.... waiting like a hungry, salivating wolf. Hope it's not a letdown!

Johnny Aussie
Aug 21, 2017, 4:46 AM
Didn't notice this the first time I looked but can anybody shed some light on this.

June 2017 Transborder stats indicate a significant amount of charter passengers - especially compared to June 2016?

What gives? Who is flying charters from YVR to the U.S.?

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2017/june/june-2017_traffic_update.pdf?la=en

casper
Aug 21, 2017, 5:52 AM
Didn't notice this the first time I looked but can anybody shed some light on this.

June 2017 Transborder stats indicate a significant amount of charter passengers - especially compared to June 2016?

What gives? Who is flying charters from YVR to the U.S.?

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2017/june/june-2017_traffic_update.pdf?la=en

Air North has a charter service to Reno. Not certain how common it is or if it happens in June.

At the Victoria Airport I have seen Miami Air running charter flights into the US for cruise ship. Passengers. It is very rare but does happen. Does the same happen out of Vancouver?

Johnny Aussie
Aug 21, 2017, 6:23 AM
Air North has a charter service to Reno. Not certain how common it is or if it happens in June.

At the Victoria Airport I have seen Miami Air running charter flights into the US for cruise ship. Passengers. It is very rare but does happen. Does the same happen out of Vancouver?

Wasn't aware of Air North and I think Miami Air frequents YVR. But the charter figure is about 9% of the total which would mean a lot of charters!

Gordon
Aug 21, 2017, 2:25 PM
That's interesting because Victoria is not an Embarkation port it is just a port of call or U.S. based ships sailing to Alaska.

LeftCoaster
Aug 21, 2017, 11:32 PM
Like I thought not a ton has changed, my estimates were pretty close for the major markets.

http://i.imgur.com/H1EcVwl.png

Given this data it seems to me that daily service (at least during peak periods) to Washington DC, Orlando, Sacramento, Miami and Boston could work today if the right equipment is available.

Outside shots of Austin/San Antonio and some sort of combined Ohio service (not even close to one market I know) have decedent demand.

One thing I noticed was WJ started a YYC-Nashville service, yet YVR-Nashville is over 35% larger from an O&D standpoint. Benefits to having an airline head office in your town I suppose.

Alpine
Aug 22, 2017, 12:36 AM
This may or may not be of interest to YVR skywatchers...

Air Canada is sticking with a 787-9 on its 3x weekly Toronto-Dubai route for the peak season. Last year it was a 777-300ER in peak season. Reflecting decreased demand for Canada-MENASA traffic?

On another subject, where can I get YVR seat/pax data for routes? I'd like to visualize which of YVR's destinations are the busiest, which have the most seats/week, etc. Like YVR-SFO has xxx seats, YVR-YYC has xxx seats/x departures, etc.

Canadian74
Aug 22, 2017, 2:14 AM
This may or may not be of interest to YVR skywatchers...

Air Canada is sticking with a 787-9 on its 3x weekly Toronto-Dubai route for the peak season. Last year it was a 777-300ER in peak season. Reflecting decreased demand for Canada-MENASA traffic?



Could be a lack of equipment as well, with AC opening routes left and right

casper
Aug 22, 2017, 2:23 AM
That's interesting because Victoria is not an Embarkation port it is just a port of call or U.S. based ships sailing to Alaska.

I know it is was weird. I have only run into it twice. Victoria is like most outstations in Canada, security it is really busy during the morning peak and is dead the rest of the day. Twice now I have shown up and the lineups have been full of people boarding a charter flight to the US associated with a cruise. No pattern that I can detect. It may be from one of the smaller ships. The large mass-market ones do not use Victoria as a home port. That said the port authority wants to built out the infrastructure for Victoria to become a home port.

casper
Aug 22, 2017, 2:25 AM
Like I thought not a ton has changed, my estimates were pretty close for the major markets.

http://i.imgur.com/H1EcVwl.png

Given this data it seems to me that daily service (at least during peak periods) to Washington DC, Orlando, Sacramento, Miami and Boston could work today if the right equipment is available.

Outside shots of Austin/San Antonio and some sort of combined Ohio service (not even close to one market I know) have decedent demand.

One thing I noticed was WJ started a YYC-Nashville service, yet YVR-Nashville is over 35% larger from an O&D standpoint. Benefits to having an airline head office in your town I suppose.

When the US authorities were opening up some extra slots at Regan airport in Washington DC, Air Canada applied for slots to operate a non-stop to Vancouver. It was not awarded the slots.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 22, 2017, 2:32 AM
Given this data it seems to me that daily service (at least during peak periods) to Washington DC, Orlando, Sacramento, Miami and Boston could work today if the right equipment is available.

Outside shots of Austin/San Antonio and some sort of combined Ohio service (not even close to one market I know) have decedent demand.

One thing I noticed was WJ started a YYC-Nashville service, yet YVR-Nashville is over 35% larger from an O&D standpoint. Benefits to having an airline head office in your town I suppose.

BOS is being operated daily summer seasonal.
I don't think Dash 8 -100s would be flying down to SMF.
AUS/SAT and any of the Ohio services wouldn't be viable.
MIA/FLL > BOS but you are showing fewer flights per week to MIA/FLL? These routes would be flown with similar equipment.

YYC-BNA has nothing to do with Westjet's head office being there it's has to do with YYC being a much better located hub for that route.

AC's strategy is focussing on YYZ, YVR and YUL only at the moment. Westjet more on YYZ, YYC and to a lesser extent YVR. For the first time just a few weeks ago I've seen Westjet use the term "hub" to describe its operations in YYC, YYZ and YVR.

Perhaps next summer we may see daily IAD, MIA and SMF again. Outside of those.... unlikely too much more.

YVR Bruce
Aug 22, 2017, 4:29 AM
Using population, and depreciating by distance from YVR (e.g. by 2:1) perhaps the largest unserved centre would be GEG Spokane.

GEG is closer than Cranbrook and has 3.3m PX/yr - that's roughly the same as YYJ + YLW together, in line with the combined size of those cities. Greater Spokane has a population of 650k. SEA is the only closer hub

Statscan data Johnny linked us to shows only 6990 px in 2016 for YVR-GEG, however that omits any Asia/Aust/Europe load that might be drawn our way. And other connecting GEG - W Canada traffic.

Anyone going beyond SEA from GEG has a 40 min turbo connector anyway, so why not AC Express via YVR? The GEG-SEA route has AS @ 14 x Q400 while DL has 8 x 70 seat ERJ/CRA-types each per day. Only 3% of that fills a DH3

How about GEG-YVR in time for the noon rush, then return to GEG for an afternoon YYC link (Europe and E Canada connections) then back for overnight in GEG? Perhaps 30-50/ day transferring onto longhauls, plus some new local business...

Also - more CDN traffic is likely to occur with Toronto Hydro 1's recent purchase of Avista - one of Spokane's largest employers

nname
Aug 22, 2017, 6:03 AM
Perhaps next summer we may see daily IAD, MIA and SMF again. Outside of those.... unlikely too much more.

Well, since we got SNA and SJC by WS and AC, maybe we'll see ONT and OAK some day... or maybe even LGB...

Cage
Aug 22, 2017, 7:06 AM
One thing I noticed was WJ started a YYC-Nashville service, yet YVR-Nashville is over 35% larger from an O&D standpoint. Benefits to having an airline head office in your town I suppose.

YYC-BNA is being supported by a lot of outbound tourist traffic that is going from Alberta to Nashville to see the grand ole opry and other country music destinations. WestJet Vacations is making a bank on the run and it will likely go 3-5x per week next year.

With all the BNA euphoria, I will take a wait and see approach to determine if BNA is a long term n/s summer seasonal route. There is a chance for YYC-BNA to over-saturate the market once everyone had the fill of BNA. A good indication of long term success will be if I start hearing about repeat business.

LeftCoaster
Aug 22, 2017, 9:28 PM
BOS is being operated daily summer seasonal.
I don't think Dash 8 -100s would be flying down to SMF.
AUS/SAT and any of the Ohio services wouldn't be viable.
MIA/FLL > BOS but you are showing fewer flights per week to MIA/FLL? These routes would be flown with similar equipment.

Is SMF too far for the Dash? I was going by ACs stated range, but I have no idea what the practical range of those things are.

Agreed on Ohio, just thought it was interesting.

I do think there's a market for West Texas service though. AC sends a daily E175 from Toronto to San Antonio with the exact same O&D as YVR has to Austin. Given the O&D growth between AUS-YVR the last 2 years of 9%+ each year it seems a market that could be ripe to exploit if AC want's to build it's YVR hub.

WRT MIA I was playing around with aircraft types so that MIA is a CS300 whereas BOS is an A319. I think the both could support daily service on either frame, so long as AC could find the metal that wasn't being deployed more profitably elsewhere.

Using population, and depreciating by distance from YVR (e.g. by 2:1) perhaps the largest unserved centre would be GEG Spokane.

GEG is closer than Cranbrook and has 3.3m PX/yr - that's roughly the same as YYJ + YLW together, in line with the combined size of those cities. Greater Spokane has a population of 650k. SEA is the only closer hub

Statscan data Johnny linked us to shows only 6990 px in 2016 for YVR-GEG, however that omits any Asia/Aust/Europe load that might be drawn our way. And other connecting GEG - W Canada traffic.

Anyone going beyond SEA from GEG has a 40 min turbo connector anyway, so why not AC Express via YVR? The GEG-SEA route has AS @ 14 x Q400 while DL has 8 x 70 seat ERJ/CRA-types each per day. Only 3% of that fills a DH3

How about GEG-YVR in time for the noon rush, then return to GEG for an afternoon YYC link (Europe and E Canada connections) then back for overnight in GEG? Perhaps 30-50/ day transferring onto longhauls, plus some new local business...

Also - more CDN traffic is likely to occur with Toronto Hydro 1's recent purchase of Avista - one of Spokane's largest employers

If you look at the numbers Spokane just isn't there. The O&D doesn't even support one frequency a day on ACs smallest aircraft. I don't know why there is so little demand, but the numbers don't lie.

YYC-BNA is being supported by a lot of outbound tourist traffic that is going from Alberta to Nashville to see the grand ole opry and other country music destinations. WestJet Vacations is making a bank on the run and it will likely go 3-5x per week next year.

With all the BNA euphoria, I will take a wait and see approach to determine if BNA is a long term n/s summer seasonal route. There is a chance for YYC-BNA to over-saturate the market once everyone had the fill of BNA. A good indication of long term success will be if I start hearing about repeat business.

I'm not too surprised YYC-BNA is doing well, just pointing out what i found surprising, that YVR had a higher demand for BNA than YYC. Country music ain't exactly a big draw out here so I wonder what is pushing it.

whatnext
Aug 22, 2017, 11:02 PM
Is SMF too far for the Dash? I was going by ACs stated range, but I have no idea what the practical range of those things are.

Agreed on Ohio, just thought it was interesting.

I do think there's a market for West Texas service though. AC sends a daily E175 from Toronto to San Antonio with the exact same O&D as YVR has to Austin. Given the O&D growth between AUS-YVR the last 2 years of 9%+ each year it seems a market that could be ripe to exploit if AC want's to build it's YVR hub.

WRT MIA I was playing around with aircraft types so that MIA is a CS300 whereas BOS is an A319. I think the both could support daily service on either frame, so long as AC could find the metal that wasn't being deployed more profitably elsewhere.

If you look at the numbers Spokane just isn't there. The O&D doesn't even support one frequency a day on ACs smallest aircraft. I don't know why there is so little demand, but the numbers don't lie.

I'm not too surprised YYC-BNA is doing well, just pointing out what i found surprising, that YVR had a higher demand for BNA than YYC. Country music ain't exactly a big draw out here so I wonder what is pushing it.

Air BC used to serve Spokane out of YVR but AC cancelled the service sometime in the early 2000s I believe, along with Sacramento.

AC also used to fly YVR-MIA with an A319 which was close to 6 hours and often weight restricted.

trofirhen
Aug 22, 2017, 11:29 PM
I wonder if there is enough traffic to warrant AC restarting YVR-SMF (Sacramento).
Probably not, especially as it was tried, but terminated, and with SJC (San Jose) up and running.
For anyone interested, AA used to go YVR - SJC twice a day, years back, en route to LAX & Burbank.
Also, Frontier Airlines used to serve GEG (Spokane) on a flight to Denver that was a 'milk run' than terminated in Shreveport, Louisiana, of all places!

Gordon
Aug 23, 2017, 4:19 AM
Does ay one have any inf as to how th new AC YVR DEN & yvr DFW services are doing?

SpongeG
Aug 23, 2017, 5:15 AM
sounds like the airport closures in hong kong and china might be felt at yvr. Many flights cancelled in asia.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/severe-typhoon-hato-wreaks-havoc-in-hong-kong--flights-cancelled--trading-delayed-9147168

Klazu
Aug 24, 2017, 3:14 AM
This year I have had the pleasure of contributing some unusual travel itenaries to YVR's stats. First there was the YVR-MSP-KEF-JAV-SFJ-GOH-KEF-MSP-YVR trip to Iceland and Greenland this past June which was incredible.

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=YVR-MSP-KEF-JAV-SFJ-GOH-KEF-MSP-YVR&MS=wls&PM=&MX=540x540

In December I am taking another holiday which was really putting UA's multi-city booking feature to a test with 16 flights criss-crossing Western Pacific tropical islands. Yep, it's one single booking itenary. :haha:

YVR-SFO-HNL-GUM-ROP-SPN-GUM-ROR-GUM-TKK-PNI-KSA-KWA-MAJ-HNL-SFO-YVR

I will be traveling onboard United's famous "Island Hopper" service from Palau through Guam (with a detour in Saipan), Federal States of Micronesia, Marshall Islands and finally Honolulu. There will be lots of short layovers on small islands and atolls that we will also spend some time on.

Should be interesting and the snorkeling looks nothing short of amazing. :yes:

Anyone else done The Hopper?

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=YVR-SFO-HNL-GUM-ROP-SPN-GUM-ROR-GUM-TKK-PNI-KSA-KWA-MAJ-HNL-SFO-YVR&MS=wls&MR=900&MX=720x360&PM=

Hourglass
Aug 24, 2017, 9:25 AM
I will be traveling onboard United's famous "Island Hopper" service from Palau through Guam (with a detour in Saipan), Federal States of Micronesia, Marshall Islands and finally Honolulu. There will be lots of short layovers on small islands and atolls that we will also spend some time on.

Should be interesting and the snorkeling looks nothing short of amazing. :yes:

Anyone else done The Hopper?
[/IMG]

Yes, I did it a couple of times before the Continental - United merger when I was doing business with IT&E in Guam.

I remember one time on the Guam-Saipan leg, we could hear air whistling loudly from one of the forward doors as we were landing. Not helped when the cabin crew went to look at the door and talked about a problem with the door not being shut properly (although they didn't look overly perturbed).

I'm sure you'll be fine! ;)

Klazu
Aug 24, 2017, 2:04 PM
Yikes. :D What was the plane Continental was operating on the route? Nowadays United operates a new 737-800 on the long Island Hopper route and ATR42 to Saipan. The latter is actually a very short leg.

SFUVancouver
Aug 25, 2017, 12:05 AM
That sounds like an amazing set of trips, Klazu! I would love to see some of your Iceland photography.

Hot Rod
Aug 25, 2017, 1:25 AM
http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/274154/north-american-aviation-industry-by-numbers-the-latest-trends-and-data/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=the-hub&utm_campaign=the-hub-AME&utm_content=the-hub-20170818

Top North American airline routes

Vancouver International (YVR) - Toronto Lester B Pearson (YYZ) had the most available capacity in July 2017, up 8.6 percent on June, following increases by Air Canada, Sunwing Airlines and Westjet.

Klazu
Aug 25, 2017, 2:55 AM
That sounds like an amazing set of trips, Klazu! I would love to see some of your Iceland photography.

Thanks, but oh boy, they are "coming" (along with so many other travel photos)... :rolleyes:

If you are curious, one round trip cost $3700 CAD. Not that bad when you remember that it is still 16 flights during peak travel season.

I love exploring airline route maps on their inflight magazines and I was always curious about this very unique route found on United's map. Now I get to fly the whole stretch, excluding only Yap island, which is only served on certain days of the week. Oh well, can't get it all. :rolleyes:

http://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/United-Intra-Asia-Route-Map-01.png

Of course the point of the trip is not (just) the flying the route and we will also be spending 2-4 days each in Koror, Guam, Saipan, Pohnpei and Majuro. World War II history, pristine white sand beaches and colorful coral reefs are the real reason for going. :)

JD_7Ej6ZFNs

Alpine
Aug 29, 2017, 3:08 AM
Following YVR's service expansion can be a frustrating experience at times.


Still no year-round service to Boston, Atlanta or Dulles

Still no daily KLM or AF service (limited to 5x weekly, even in peak season; plus KLM sends its dinosaur A330-300s in the off season)

Still no year-round AC flight to FRA

Still no year-round flight to India

Still no flights to Singapore, or Bangkok, or KL, or Dubai, or Doha, or Abu Dhabi, or Istanbul

Virgin Atlantic still can't get bilateral rights to fly YVR-LHR



I can understand some of the barriers, like AC's aircraft shortage owing to their rolling out so many routes so quickly; as well as the current political instability in Qatar and Turkey, etc. Furthermore, there have been some pleasant surprises as of late: like AC expanding YVR-DEN, YVR-PHX and YVR-DFW to year-round; triple-daily YVR-SJC flights (alas, on Jazz--if it was a mainline flight, I'd be over the moon); plus expanding the seasonal YVR-DEL route to 5x weekly (if only for part of the season). All the same, I'm getting a tad impatient. I'd rather see a daily year-round YVR-DXB (AC and EK could split service just like AC56/EK242, with each carrier having 3x weekly departures), or YVR-SIN service than a gazillion new routes to PR China. If you're flying to BOM, ISB, MLE, CMB, ALG, it's still cheaper to drive/train to Seattle and fly EK, than it is to fly out of YVR through one of the European hubs. Cheaper by several hundred dollars, as a matter of fact.

By the way, AC and Transport Canada (not to mention the US3!) complain about the state subsidies that the ME3 carriers get, but don't seem to mind state-subsidized Chinese airlines starting services from Hangzhou/Nanjing/Kunming/Shenyang/Zhengzhou/etc. to YVR. What hypocrisy!

mezzanine
Aug 29, 2017, 4:28 AM
By the way, AC and Transport Canada (not to mention the US3!) complain about the state subsidies that the ME3 carriers get, but don't seem to mind state-subsidized Chinese airlines starting services from Hangzhou/Nanjing/Kunming/Shenyang/Zhengzhou/etc. to YVR. What hypocrisy!

maybe someone with more inside knowledge may comment further, but china does have a lot of O+D traffic with YVR, versus much less with the ME3 that really will rely on a lot of transfer traffic elsewhere. I suspect that depression of europe pax numbers last winter is due to VFR traffic going to chinese carriers, but a lot of people still want go to china from YVR.

-------

Anywhoo, lots at play for YVR in the near future. I`m looking at thai airways`s much telegraphed return to north american markets, the new intl MLL at YVR, the new skyteam lounge, deliveries of AC's final dreamliners and further maturation of AC`s routes. Of course, construction finally to begin on YVR's expansion plans as well.

in the mid-term future, AC`s C-series deliveries will open up new markets from YVR as with WS`s dreamliners and ULCC changing things up.

Things I`m hoping for:


transborder new routes to IAD and SLC
further maturation of these new routes. AC`s DEL, MEL, BOS and FRA to be made year round?
AC's investors day route somewhere to SE asia/SIN?

Canadian74
Aug 29, 2017, 4:30 AM
Following YVR's service expansion can be a frustrating experience at times.


Still no year-round service to Boston, Atlanta or Dulles

Still no daily KLM or AF service (limited to 5x weekly, even in peak season; plus KLM sends its dinosaur A330-300s in the off season)

Still no year-round AC flight to FRA

Still no year-round flight to India

Still no flights to Singapore, or Bangkok, or KL, or Dubai, or Doha, or Abu Dhabi, or Istanbul

Virgin Atlantic still can't get bilateral rights to fly YVR-LHR



I can understand some of the barriers, like AC's aircraft shortage owing to their rolling out so many routes so quickly; as well as the current political instability in Qatar and Turkey, etc. Furthermore, there have been some pleasant surprises as of late: like AC expanding YVR-DEN, YVR-PHX and YVR-DFW to year-round; triple-daily YVR-SJC flights (alas, on Jazz--if it was a mainline flight, I'd be over the moon); plus expanding the seasonal YVR-DEL route to 5x weekly (if only for part of the season). All the same, I'm getting a tad impatient. I'd rather see a daily year-round YVR-DXB (AC and EK could split service just like AC56/EK242, with each carrier having 3x weekly departures), or YVR-SIN service than a gazillion new routes to PR China. If you're flying to BOM, ISB, MLE, CMB, ALG, it's still cheaper to drive/train to Seattle and fly EK, than it is to fly out of YVR through one of the European hubs. Cheaper by several hundred dollars, as a matter of fact.

By the way, AC and Transport Canada (not to mention the US3!) complain about the state subsidies that the ME3 carriers get, but don't seem to mind state-subsidized Chinese airlines starting services from Hangzhou/Nanjing/Kunming/Shenyang/Zhengzhou/etc. to YVR. What hypocrisy!


Virgin can't get bilateral rights??? What? They operated the route not too long ago and quit.

Emirates can't start YVR, they are maxed out with their frequencies. I believe Air Canada as well is maxed out, each airline can only operate 3 weekly. And you make it sound like they are partners, they are not. Even if the bilateral was expanded, you will see additional YYZ flights before YVR.

I can see DEL and FRA being upgraded to year round in the future

nname
Aug 29, 2017, 5:51 AM
Virgin Atlantic still can't get bilateral rights to fly YVR-LHR

That's more to do with DL wanting to funnel SkyTeam traffic to their hub at SEA rather than diverting them to YVR. I remember them starting LHR-SEA not long after cancelling LHR-YVR.

By the way, AC and Transport Canada (not to mention the US3!) complain about the state subsidies that the ME3 carriers get, but don't seem to mind state-subsidized Chinese airlines starting services from Hangzhou/Nanjing/Kunming/Shenyang/Zhengzhou/etc. to YVR. What hypocrisy!

The limit is not set by subsidy, but by the O&D demand between the two countries. Don't you think Canada-China have at least 12x as much demand as Canada-UAE? If there is that much O&D demand, I'm sure EK won't have issue to have the right to run multiple dailies to every single Canadian airport even if every route is 100% subsidized.

There are just waaaayyy more O&D demand for route like Zhengzhou-YVR than YVR-Dubai...

CareerShow
Aug 29, 2017, 8:42 AM
Following YVR's service expansion can be a frustrating experience at times.


Still no year-round service to Boston, Atlanta or Dulles

Still no daily KLM or AF service (limited to 5x weekly, even in peak season; plus KLM sends its dinosaur A330-300s in the off season)

Still no year-round AC flight to FRA

Still no year-round flight to India

Still no flights to Singapore, or Bangkok, or KL, or Dubai, or Doha, or Abu Dhabi, or Istanbul

Virgin Atlantic still can't get bilateral rights to fly YVR-LHR



I can understand some of the barriers, like AC's aircraft shortage owing to their rolling out so many routes so quickly; as well as the current political instability in Qatar and Turkey, etc. Furthermore, there have been some pleasant surprises as of late: like AC expanding YVR-DEN, YVR-PHX and YVR-DFW to year-round; triple-daily YVR-SJC flights (alas, on Jazz--if it was a mainline flight, I'd be over the moon); plus expanding the seasonal YVR-DEL route to 5x weekly (if only for part of the season). All the same, I'm getting a tad impatient. I'd rather see a daily year-round YVR-DXB (AC and EK could split service just like AC56/EK242, with each carrier having 3x weekly departures), or YVR-SIN service than a gazillion new routes to PR China. If you're flying to BOM, ISB, MLE, CMB, ALG, it's still cheaper to drive/train to Seattle and fly EK, than it is to fly out of YVR through one of the European hubs. Cheaper by several hundred dollars, as a matter of fact.

By the way, AC and Transport Canada (not to mention the US3!) complain about the state subsidies that the ME3 carriers get, but don't seem to mind state-subsidized Chinese airlines starting services from Hangzhou/Nanjing/Kunming/Shenyang/Zhengzhou/etc. to YVR. What hypocrisy!

Klm is year round in the summer....

Johnny Aussie
Aug 29, 2017, 10:15 AM
That's more to do with DL wanting to funnel SkyTeam traffic to their hub at SEA rather than diverting them to YVR. I remember them starting LHR-SEA not long after cancelling LHR-YVR.

And the day after Delta cancelled SEA-LHR.

Klm is year round in the summer....

I know you meant daily in the summer.

AF/KLM western Canada ops gets reduced in the winter.
YVR down to 7pw (4 KL & 3 AF), YYC down to 5pw KL and YEG down to 2pw KL.

Canadian74
Aug 29, 2017, 3:56 PM
The limit is not set by subsidy, but by the O&D demand between the two countries. Don't you think Canada-China have at least 12x as much demand as Canada-UAE? If there is that much O&D demand, I'm sure EK won't have issue to have the right to run multiple dailies to every single Canadian airport even if every route is 100% subsidized.

There are just waaaayyy more O&D demand for route like Zhengzhou-YVR than YVR-Dubai...

The limit is not set by just o/d. Don't be so naive. There are other countries which have much more liberal air bilaterals with canada, but there is little or no service between the countries

nname
Aug 29, 2017, 8:59 PM
The limit is not set by just o/d. Don't be so naive. There are other countries which have much more liberal air bilaterals with canada, but there is little or no service between the countries

And I was just comparing the ones with frequency restriction, especially China vs UAE as it was previously mentioned.

If the demand is there, then more frequency was made available through negotiation (which was seen for India, Australia, Thailand, etc). If the current allowance is more than enough to serve the demand, then getting extra frequency would be harder (China, UAE, Turkey, etc).

casper
Aug 30, 2017, 4:39 AM
The limit is not set by just o/d. Don't be so naive. There are other countries which have much more liberal air bilaterals with canada, but there is little or no service between the countries

Many but not all of these agreements are negotiated on a country by country basis leaving it up to the airline to pick he city pairs. The EU has open skiles with Canada. China (including HK) is a massive market that easily support 1 to 2 dozen flights a day between the two countries.

thenoflyzone
Aug 30, 2017, 12:44 PM
By the way, AC and Transport Canada (not to mention the US3!) complain about the state subsidies that the ME3 carriers get, but don't seem to mind state-subsidized Chinese airlines starting services from Hangzhou/Nanjing/Kunming/Shenyang/Zhengzhou/etc. to YVR. What hypocrisy!

It will be interesting to see if Canada will bend over and grant Chinese carriers more rights into Canada. I don't think so. As you said, some of those secondary Chinese carriers are launching YVR service just because they can, and not because the market pair necessarily warrants it.

There does seem to be overcapacity in the market during the winter. A few weeks ago, China Eastern reduced frequency on PVG-YVR for the month of November, and now China Southern is reducing CAN-YVR terminator to 5x weekly (http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/274513/china-southern-w17-vancouver-service-changes/) for the entire winter season.

Last winter was 7x weekly B77W service. This winter, along with the 3x weekly CAN-YVR-MEX flight, it's a total of 8x weekly B788. Overall a decrease in seats/week.

If the yields were high, i would argue it doesn't matter. But the yields across the Pacific are trash, as can be evidenced by flights as low as 450$ return tax-in to East Asia. And so the reduced frequencies on some routes are inevitable.

whatnext
Aug 30, 2017, 4:19 PM
It will be interesting to see if Canada will bend over and grant Chinese carriers more rights into Canada. I don't think so. As you said, some of those secondary Chinese carriers are launching YVR service just because they can, and not because the market pair necessarily warrants it.

There does seem to be overcapacity in the market during the winter. A few weeks ago, China Eastern reduced frequency on PVG-YVR for the month of November, and now China Southern is reducing CAN-YVR terminator to 5x weekly (http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/274513/china-southern-w17-vancouver-service-changes/) for the entire winter season.

Last winter was 7x weekly B77W service. This winter, along with the 3x weekly CAN-YVR-MEX flight, it's a total of 8x weekly B788. Overall a decrease in seats/week.

If the yields were high, i would argue it doesn't matter. But the yields across the Pacific are trash, as can be evidenced by flights as low as 450$ return tax-in to East Asia. And so the reduced frequencies on some routes are inevitable.

Not likely the Feds would refuse, Justin can't bend far enough over for China. Of course, its just product dumping on the Chinese carriers part.

LeftCoaster
Aug 30, 2017, 9:16 PM
If the Chinese government wants to take a hit and make my travel cheaper I don't have much of a problem with it. ACs exposure to that part of the world is pretty limited so the downside to the Canadian consumer is pretty low IMO.

LeftCoaster
Aug 30, 2017, 9:43 PM
Last winter was 7x weekly B77W service. This winter, along with the 3x weekly CAN-YVR-MEX flight, it's a total of 8x weekly B788. Overall a decrease in seats/week.

Here's the details of this change. Important to note CZ seems to change their schedules at YVR a lot so i would not be surprised to see a bit more capacity added to this before all is said and done especially now that MEX is contributing to the feed.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/274513/china-southern-w17-vancouver-service-changes/

Also announced at the routes online blog today is Korean is introducing their 787-9 on the YVR route sooner, meaning a bump in seats through the winter. 777-200 is being replaced Jan 1 rather than Mar 25.

Just shy of a 9% boost in capacity.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/274514/korean-air-w17-international-changes-as-of-30aug17/

hollywoodcory
Aug 31, 2017, 2:30 PM
And the day after Delta cancelled SEA-LHR.



I know you meant daily in the summer.

AF/KLM western Canada ops gets reduced in the winter.
YVR down to 7pw (4 KL & 3 AF), YYC down to 5pw KL and YEG down to 2pw KL.

I think KLM does 6x weekly to YYC in the winter. Looking at the schedule for this winter it looks like its everyday except for Thursday, all operated by the 789.

ACT7
Aug 31, 2017, 4:19 PM
Major AC route announcements being presented today from YVR. Not sure if it's all YVR-related or just major announcements in general.

whatnext
Aug 31, 2017, 4:48 PM
If the Chinese government wants to take a hit and make my travel cheaper I don't have much of a problem with it. ACs exposure to that part of the world is pretty limited so the downside to the Canadian consumer is pretty low IMO.

Product dumping is never a good thing. In this case it may not harm AC but it likely harms CX which offers a superior product in every way to the mainland carriers.

Gordon
Aug 31, 2017, 5:14 PM
I would suspect that the announcement will have something to do with YVR.

I wonder what is taking YVRAA so long o announce the next phase of terminal expansion?

Chikinlittle
Aug 31, 2017, 5:17 PM
Major AC route announcements being presented today from YVR. Not sure if it's all YVR-related or just major announcements in general.

YVR-CDG
YVR-ZRH.

Boom.

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/air-canada-to-launch-new-international-boeing-787-dreamliner-routes-from-vancouver-642379083.html

Canadian74
Aug 31, 2017, 5:35 PM
YVR-CDG
YVR-ZRH.

Boom.



also MEL and DEL are now year round and LHR is double daily in summer

Wow, big additions. AC really solidifying YVR

LeftCoaster
Aug 31, 2017, 6:03 PM
Just huge. The growth at YVR, particularly that of Air Canada is just staggering.

Paris I'm not too surprised by, but Zurich mainline came out of nowhere! Will be able to codeshare with Swiss and really fill the plane too. Great news all around!

Still haven't seen anything about Delhi going year round though. Where'd you see that Canadian74?

Gordon
Aug 31, 2017, 6:19 PM
These new additions are great &will make the airport even busier during the peak times . The gate shortage will be even worse.

LeftCoaster
Aug 31, 2017, 6:40 PM
I wonder how much growth will impel YVR to complete the entire D pier hammerhead in one go. I can't believe they are only planning on doing half the expansion at once. I understand sensible growth and not overextending, but their current plan barely even supports the announced growth for next year, let alone 5 years from now when it's complete.

LeftCoaster
Aug 31, 2017, 6:48 PM
And I finally get closure on what happened to YVR's last LHR slot:
But we still don't know what AC is going to do with it's extra LHR slot do we?

Seems like an incredible waste to not use it. Can they lease it to another airliner?

mezzanine
Aug 31, 2017, 7:00 PM
Wow, my feeds are lighting up. what a whack of new routes! Glad they expanded the MLL intl lounge!


ZRH really surprised me. glad to see real *A service versus edelweiss. I really thought CDG would be rouge'd as well.
MEL for a few weeks in winter always seemed weird. I'm glad AC is seeing expected demand.
LHR back to double daily in the summer! glad to see it back. It looks like a lot of the Dreamliner deliveries are being accounted for..
YUL got a whole bunch of AC Asian love recently. Now it's YVR's turn to get a lot of AC European love. :cheers:


https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2017-08-31-Air-Canada-To-Launch-New-International-Boeing-787-Dreamliner-Routes-from-Vancouver


"We continue to strategically broaden our international network from our Vancouver hub with the addition of two new, non-stop international services to Europe in 2018, more year-round flights to Australia, and additional flights to Delhi and London Heathrow. With the launch of flights to Paris and Zurich, Air Canada will fly non-stop from YVR to five European destinations next summer, offering excellent options for travellers from BC and the North American west coast to Europe, and as well as for European visitors and beyond to western Canada and the Pacific Northwest," said Benjamin Smith, President, Passenger Airlines at Air Canada.

"Following our upcoming launch of seasonal service to Melbourne this winter, we are delighted to serve Australia's second largest city year-round starting in June. Melbourne is our third Australian destination, and our flights provide convenience to both business and leisure travellers between North America and Australia with competitive elapsed travel times and seamless connections offered by the in-transit preclearance facilities at our YVR hub. All new flights from YVR to Paris, Zurich and Melbourne will be operated with our state-of-the-art Boeing 787 Dreamliners. The operating economics of the Dreamliners together with the Vancouver Airport Authority's efforts to maintain airport operating costs among the lowest in Canada have enabled us to expand our network here to connect our already extensive B.C., Western Canada and U.S. routes to even more international destinations, and position YVR as a preferred option to travel through," concluded Mr. Smith.

Canadian74
Aug 31, 2017, 7:37 PM
Still haven't seen anything about Delhi going year round though. Where'd you see that Canadian74?

airlineroute twitter

https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status/903303425164795904

trofirhen
Aug 31, 2017, 7:39 PM
The next giant step - although unlikely I will admit - is when Paris, Zurich & Delhi become year-round. Then there are other dreams to dream ... GDL, MTY, perhaps IST .......

mezzanine
Aug 31, 2017, 7:46 PM
More questions answered by this BIV article (https://www.biv.com/article/2017/8/air-canada-adds-flights-vancouver-three-continents/). DEL looks like a re-announcement, it is still seasonal, for now. interestingly, no further Australia flights, and no plans to fly to NZ.


But also raises more questions. LIM on the radar? BKK/SIN still on the table, in the medium-term?




“In Switzerland, the value of the Swiss currency is very beneficial and we see a lot of growth in Switzerland’s inbound traffic into Canada,” Air Canada vice-president for network planning, Mark Galardo told Business in Vancouver after a ceremony at YVR.

.....

Air Canada will also increase the frequency of its current non-stop flights to Delhi to five flights per week, up from the current three flights per week.

The route, which launched last year, will remain seasonal during the winter.

“Obviously our start was successful. Now we’re taking another major leap by almost doubling the frequency and we’ll see how that goes. Our goal is to get to daily, year-round service. With time we’ll get there.”

.....

Air Canada, which is the largest carrier out of YVR, had already announced plans to launch its first non-stop flights between YVR and Melbourne on December 1 for a three-month trial run.

Flights between YVR and Melbourne will still end in February, as planned, but the airline will relaunch the daily non-stop flights in June 2018 on a permanent, year-round basis.

Other Air Canada non-stop flights to Australia include the decades-old non-stop, daily, year-round service between Vancouver and Sydney as well as the non-stop, daily, year-round flights to Brisbane, which launched last year.

Galardo said the airline is not considering any more routes to Australia and will not fly non-stop to New Zealand.

....

Air Canada’s other announcement about added flights from YVR was that it will fly twice daily to London’s Heathrow Airport in summer 2018. It currently flies daily non-stop flights year-round to that airport.

...

No airline currently flies non-stop between YVR and South America but Galardo said that Air Canada has considered non-stop flights to Lima.

“We will consider it as the hub continues to grow,” he said.

“We build critical mass in terms of international destinations and reach. Right now the market [for flights between YVR and Lima] is a bit thin but as we continue to build up the hub and offer more connections to the Asia Pacific, it becomes a possibility. I wouldn’t say it will be something in the short term.”

......


Air Canada CEO Calin Rovinescu told the Greater Vancouver Board of Trade earlier this year that he would love to launch added flights and routes into China but that it is difficult to get assigned slots at Chinese airports.

No current Air Canada flights link YVR to southeast Asia but Galardo said non-stop flights to Bangkok and Singapore are being considered because the airline’s fuel-efficient 787-900 Dreamliner aircraft make such destinations feasible.

“We’re considering them,” he said of routes to Bangkok and Singapore.

“We like routes that are counter seasonal, which peak in the winter, so definitely, for us, it’s something we’re considering but there’s no commitment at this time.”

whatnext
Aug 31, 2017, 8:16 PM
Wow, my feeds are lighting up. what a whack of new routes! Glad they expanded the MLL intl lounge!


ZRH really surprised me. glad to see real *A service versus edelweiss. I really thought CDG would be rouge'd as well.
MEL for a few weeks in winter always seemed weird. I'm glad AC is seeing expected demand.
LHR back to double daily in the summer! glad to see it back. It looks like a lot of the Dreamliner deliveries are being accounted for..
YUL got a whole bunch of AC Asian love recently. Now it's YVR's turn to get a lot of AC European love. :cheers:


https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2017-08-31-Air-Canada-To-Launch-New-International-Boeing-787-Dreamliner-Routes-from-Vancouver

Much nicer to connect to European cities through Zurich, than LHR or CDG.

mezzanine
Aug 31, 2017, 8:57 PM
Wow. still amazed about the expansions today. my next near-medium term predictions:

another round of NA expansions - if AC needs 'to build the hub' further before they add more intl destinations. it means more US feed. IMO Australia service is a unique feature to YVR and I see more draw from IAD, year-round BOS and SLC service. Even MIA may be feasible.

I suspect TG will aim to start YVR BKK and AC has its eyes on YVR SIN.

excel
Aug 31, 2017, 9:12 PM
This is amazing news. So happy about Zurich

Lancaster
Sep 1, 2017, 12:23 AM
Excellent announcements today considering how poor yields are in the asian market. Happy to see AC not shifting focus away from YVR.

I can't wait to see what the CSeries does for YVR.

trofirhen
Sep 1, 2017, 12:50 AM
All these new flight announcements are like having Christmas in summer.
Further to which, we still have that "game-changing, groundbreaking" route which is supposed to be announced - by Johnny, one would hope - before year's end.
YVR is certainly becoming a hub in its own right, and no longer largely a feeder spoke for YYZ, which is so refreshing - and empowering.

Johnny Aussie
Sep 1, 2017, 1:19 AM
I think KLM does 6x weekly to YYC in the winter. Looking at the schedule for this winter it looks like its everyday except for Thursday, all operated by the 789.

No. This winter drops to 5pw in Jan and Feb.

YVR-CDG
YVR-ZRH.

Boom.

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/air-canada-to-launch-new-international-boeing-787-dreamliner-routes-from-vancouver-642379083.html

also MEL and DEL are now year round and LHR is double daily in summer

Wow, big additions. AC really solidifying YVR

Yes all good news. Amazing the flip flop on LHR too. YVR is the only airport in Western Canada getting attention these last few years.

Thrilled about MEL-YVR going Year-round. MEL is going nuts!

thenoflyzone
Sep 1, 2017, 1:27 AM
Amazing stuff by AC.

CDG was to be expected. And with ZRH, they are targeting mostly the inbound Swiss traveller. Basically directly competing against Edelweiss.

With the resumption of a second daily YVR-LHR, I wouldn't be surprised if AC decides to pull YVR-LGW, and make YYZ-LGW daily again, to better compete against the upcoming BA LGW-YYZ.

sunsetmountainland
Sep 1, 2017, 2:07 AM
Amazing stuff by AC.

CDG was to be expected. And with ZRH, they are targeting mostly the inbound Swiss traveller. Basically directly competing against Edelweiss.

With the resumption of a second daily YVR-LHR, I wouldn't be surprised if AC decides to pull YVR-LGW, and make YYZ-LGW daily again, to better compete against the upcoming BA LGW-YYZ.

Do you have info about the AC pulling YVR-LGW?

thenoflyzone
Sep 1, 2017, 2:11 AM
Do you have info about the AC pulling YVR-LGW?

No. This is purely a speculation on my behalf.

trofirhen
Sep 1, 2017, 2:38 AM
Do you have info about the AC pulling YVR-LGW?

No. This is purely a speculation on my behalf.

I wish Norwegian would, or could, do LGW as they do out of Seattle. They won't, given the rules and regulations, and WJ already flies that route, but I'd love to see Norwegian at YVR.

Cage
Sep 1, 2017, 6:25 AM
Do you have info about the AC pulling YVR-LGW?

None of today's announcements appear to have been loaded into RES3 or the various GDS systems. Additionally YVR-LGW is still showing in RES3, FWIW.

Massive increase in flying over the past 2 years. WS longhaul Dreamliners are going to find that all the low hanging fruit has been picked by AC mainline and Rouge.

Alexcaban
Sep 1, 2017, 8:15 AM
Do you have info about the AC pulling YVR-LGW?

AC will indeed be pulling the plug on YVR-LGW, this will be reflected in the schedule in the upcoming weeks.

Johnny Aussie
Sep 1, 2017, 9:09 AM
None of today's announcements appear to have been loaded into RES3 or the various GDS systems. Additionally YVR-LGW is still showing in RES3, FWIW.

Massive increase in flying over the past 2 years. WS longhaul Dreamliners are going to find that all the low hanging fruit has been picked by AC mainline and Rouge.

No kidding. Assuming YVR-LGW does get the axe that's still going to be 31 weekly flights YVR-Europe on AC and rouge.... hard to believe not so long ago YVR-Europe on AC consisted of a single daily flight to LHR only.

Looks like Edelweiss is increasing YVR-ZRH to 4 weekly next summer as well. Not sure if that had been reported yet.

s211
Sep 1, 2017, 2:26 PM
MEL is going nuts!

In what fashion? Media mentions?

LeftCoaster
Sep 1, 2017, 7:56 PM
No he means MEL the airport is growing like crazy. This is no where near the only new route to melbourne right now.

No kidding. Assuming YVR-LGW does get the axe that's still going to be 31 weekly flights YVR-Europe on AC and rouge.... hard to believe not so long ago YVR-Europe on AC consisted of a single daily flight to LHR only.

Looks like Edelweiss is increasing YVR-ZRH to 4 weekly next summer as well. Not sure if that had been reported yet.

I was looking at my ol charts and saw that total Europe growth from Summer 16 to Summer '18 is 18.5% so in line with the growth in PAX we've been seeing. Still a massive number though! And ya the Edelweiss bump was mentioned here a little while back I think, at least I have it in my chart.

And speak of... with yesterday's announcement we crossed over a really cool threshold I've been waiting a long time to see, 100,000 international seats per week as I measure it! (100,008 to be precise).

https://i.imgur.com/KkUtflt.png

Also worth noting that with the AC announcement we're already showing 15% growth in seats to Europe/London for next summer. Let the good times roll!

LeftCoaster
Sep 1, 2017, 9:28 PM
Well not to be too much of a downer here with all the good news of late but July numbers are out and growth continues to slow:

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2017/july/asd/july2017_traffic_update.pdf?la=en

Domestic up 5.5%
International up 8.7%

---------

Total pax count up 7.1% and over 163,000 compared to July 2016.

---------

Int'l breakdown by sector:

Transborder up 9.8%
Asia Pacific up 9.1%
Europe up 2.6%
Misc Int'l up 29.0%

I don't mean to have too high standards, as +7.00% growth is still fantastic, but given the growth in seats we continue to see capacity go unabsorbed. This is not great and will probably slow growth down going forward. Asia for instance is up ~20% in seats but only 9.1% in PAX so loads must be suffering. Hopefully Airlines were anticipating a 2-3 year buuld up of services, but still not a great result.

Also, Europe growth is low but the increased seats were only 3.0% so growth of 2.6% is nearly all of the capacity absorbed. Looking even deeper scheduled Europe PAX growth was up 3.4% so loads look like they've increased.

trofirhen
Sep 2, 2017, 5:25 PM
Thrilled about MEL-YVR going Year-round. MEL is going nuts!

This explosive growth at MEL seems concomitant with the fact that Melbourne is growing so fast, poised to regain its position as Australia's largest city within 20 years, maybe less.
It really seems that city size has an enormous bearing on airports stats. In Canada, the exception of Montreal being number 3 and Vancouver at number 2 is surely due to the huge YVR - Asia traffic, which is rather an exceptional situation. Correct me if I'm wrong.

thenoflyzone
Sep 2, 2017, 5:32 PM
In Canada, the exception of Montreal being number 3 and Vancouver at number 2 is surely due to the huge YVR - Asia traffic, which is rather an exceptional situation. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Not quite.

July stats:

YVR July International (no US) - 659,658 +7.8%

YUL July International (no US) - 819,082 +14.5%

Lack of domestic travel at YUL is the main reason.

YVR July Domestic - 1,154,635 +5.5%

YUL July Domestic 701,599 +9.7%

trofirhen
Sep 2, 2017, 5:55 PM
^So that's it !!! I could never understand it, what with Montreal being so much bigger than Vancouver. Know I know. Mystery solved. ;)

Canadian74
Sep 2, 2017, 7:53 PM
YVR July International (no US) - 659,658 +7.8%

YUL July International (no US) - 819,082 +14.5%

US should be included with International when comparing, that's just dumb

trofirhen
Sep 2, 2017, 8:18 PM
US should be included with International when comparing, that's just dumb

I think that's how they do it in the USA with pax stats; i.e; there's no "transborder," just domestic and international. Interestingly, the Number One International destination from Seattle is (drum roll) ... Vancouver. The number one "international" destination from Vancouver is Los Angeles. I guess that makes sense, but that YVR is SEA-TAC's most frequented foreign destination blows me away a little bit.