PDA

View Full Version : YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion


Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 [125] 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143

Johnny Aussie
Jan 19, 2018, 1:59 AM
I read a few pages back that frequencies are being reduced. But I suppose that was talking about how it was rouged ( which is better than it was before... which was... non-existent )

Oh that. Yes, KIX being wound back from 7 to 6 weekly next summer. For minor adjustments like that airlines don’t normally issue press releases.
NGO also being wound back by one weekly.
These were to facilitate the increase in DUB from 3 to 5 weekly.
Imagine that!? AC adding flights to Europe at Asia’s expense!
AC’s international expansion next summer out of YVR is mainly to Europe:
LHR second daily
CDG new 4 weekly
ZRH new 3 weekly
DUB increasing from 3 to 5 weekly on rouge
Daily 788 to FRA stays the same

YVR is just so poorly served to Europe... nonstop service to only 11 cities... I thought it was all about China.

And then of course adding the year round MEL service too.

Asia pretty much a wash with PVG going to a daily 77W covers the loss of the two weekly rouge to KIX/NGO.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 19, 2018, 6:04 AM
Vancouver set to reap the benefits of a record convention year.

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/vancouver-gears-up-for-its-busiest-convention-year-ever

Great article by the Vancouver Sun indicates Vancouver’s ever growing global
awareness.

No doubt it’s events like these that will continue to boost YVR’s numbers both domestically and internationally.

A telling quote from that article:

“Vancouver’s global reputation as a place to do business, to gather, to be inspired and to hold major events and conferences is moving from strength to strength,” said Ty Speer, president and CEO, Tourism Vancouver. “Not only has Vancouver demonstrated that we have the experience, the world-leading venues and infrastructure to execute these large, complex and high-profile events, our city has a diverse business environment and spectacular natural setting which provide a compelling backdrop to any event.”

trofirhen
Jan 19, 2018, 6:27 AM
Oh that. Yes, KIX being wound back from 7 to 6 weekly next summer. For minor adjustments like that airlines don’t normally issue press releases.
NGO also being wound back by one weekly.
These were to facilitate the increase in DUB from 3 to 5 weekly.
Imagine that!? AC adding flights to Europe at Asia’s expense!
AC’s international expansion next summer out of YVR is mainly to Europe:
LHR second daily
CDG new 4 weekly
ZRH new 3 weekly
DUB increasing from 3 to 5 weekly on rouge
Daily 788 to FRA stays the same

YVR is just so poorly served to Europe... nonstop service to only 11 cities... I thought it was all about China.

And then of course adding the year round MEL service too.

Asia pretty much a wash with PVG going to a daily 77W covers the loss of the two weekly rouge to KIX/NGO.

Excuse me, Johnny but what are the 11 (eleven) cities?
I'm not trying to be contrary, but with The "Big Four" (LHR, AMS, FRA, CDG), plus ZRH, DUB, MUC, KEF, I count eight (8) cities.
Am I mistaken- are you counting frequencies? If not, please tell me what the 11 cities are? Thank you very much.:)

Johnny Aussie
Jan 19, 2018, 6:37 AM
The 11 are:

KEF, DUB, GLA, MAN, LHR, LGW, AMS, CDG, FRA, MUC, ZRH

trofirhen
Jan 19, 2018, 6:52 AM
The 11 are:

KEF, DUB, GLA, MAN, LHR, LGW, AMS, CDG, FRA, MUC, ZRH

:tup:Thanks, Johnny !!

LeftCoaster
Jan 19, 2018, 11:04 PM
Oh that. Yes, KIX being wound back from 7 to 6 weekly next summer. For minor adjustments like that airlines don’t normally issue press releases.
NGO also being wound back by one weekly.
These were to facilitate the increase in DUB from 3 to 5 weekly.
Imagine that!? AC adding flights to Europe at Asia’s expense!
AC’s international expansion next summer out of YVR is mainly to Europe:


Anecdotally I've found fares to europe nearly double the cost per mile to that of Asia so I'm not too surprised AC is shifting it's attention that way, at least for the time being.

I expect the Asian carriers to try and pick up AC's slack on the TPAC routes as they have lower cost structures to deal with that low fare/high load environment.

I really do think AC will launch a S. American route sometime soon. The fares traveling south are quite high year round. YVR-LIM on Rouge seems like a good bet.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 20, 2018, 10:59 PM
As it stands now getting oh so close to 100 daily departures...

96 daily of which about 55 are on mainline aircraft (including rouge for “size” comparisons)

Hourglass
Jan 21, 2018, 4:28 AM
As it stands now getting oh so close to 100 daily departures...

96 daily of which about 55 are on mainline aircraft (including rouge for “size” comparisons)

Out of curiosity, how does this compare with the rest of the big 4 Canadian airports? I’d guess YYZ is in a league of its own, with YUL and YVR probably quite close?

Johnny Aussie
Jan 21, 2018, 5:39 AM
Out of curiosity, how does this compare with the rest of the big 4 Canadian airports? I’d guess YYZ is in a league of its own, with YUL and YVR probably quite close?

I follow Western Canada only (mainly) but I would imagine AC at YYZ alone would be a larger transborder operation than all of YVR transborder. YUL has a very significant transborder operation as well, but leans more to regional aircraft (ie its sees only 1-2 mainline flights a day on US carriers moreso on AC of course though).

YYC has been fairly stagnant on the transborder front and has been hovering around 50 departures daily of which about 25 are mainline aircraft. The increases at Westjet have basically offset the wind back of AC and US based carriers as of late. YYC has definitely been able to garner more of the prairie market share as other cities in the region have seen declines in transborder offerings.

YEG has been on a gradual decline. They will be at about 12 departures per day of which 4 are mainline.

YVR Transborder O&D has just grown incredibly between 2013 and 2016.

In 2013 YVR was ahead of YYC by about 500,000 pax and ahead of YUL by only about 340,000.... in 2016 that's grown to about 1.6 million over YYC and just shy of 1 million over YUL.

In 2013 YVR was only 44.9% of YYZ's total... in 2016 that was 51.4% so YYZ is not even 2x YVR's total Transborder market despite being such a bigger city and more importantly a much larger business centre.

Hourglass
Jan 21, 2018, 11:49 AM
I follow Western Canada only (mainly) but I would imagine AC at YYZ alone would be a larger transborder operation than all of YVR transborder. YUL has a very significant transborder operation as well, but leans more to regional aircraft (ie its sees only 1-2 mainline flights a day on US carriers moreso on AC of course though).

YYC has been fairly stagnant on the transborder front and has been hovering around 50 departures daily of which about 25 are mainline aircraft. The increases at Westjet have basically offset the wind back of AC and US based carriers as of late. YYC has definitely been able to garner more of the prairie market share as other cities in the region have seen declines in transborder offerings.

YEG has been on a gradual decline. They will be at about 12 departures per day of which 4 are mainline.

YVR Transborder O&D has just grown incredibly between 2013 and 2016.

In 2013 YVR was ahead of YYC by about 500,000 pax and ahead of YUL by only about 340,000.... in 2016 that's grown to about 1.6 million over YYC and just shy of 1 million over YUL.

In 2013 YVR was only 44.9% of YYZ's total... in 2016 that was 51.4% so YYZ is not even 2x YVR's total Transborder market despite being such a bigger city and more importantly a much larger business centre.

Thanks Johnny! Yes, YVR’s growth over the past few years has been remarkable. That expansion is definitely needed!

trofirhen
Jan 21, 2018, 7:49 PM
Can anyone tell me how many takeoffs per hour at YVR. I arbitrarily divided 96^ by 18h (assuming the curfew etc etc) and got 5.3 which makes - according to my rough estimates-
one transborder flight every 11.3 minutes. If domestic and international are included, what is the average takeoff frequency at YVR, please? Are the intervals between takeoffs constant, more or less, or do they vary at certain times of day? Thank you, anyone, who is willing to answer this question.:)

thenoflyzone
Jan 21, 2018, 8:18 PM
Can anyone tell me how many takeoffs per hour at YVR. I arbitrarily divided 96^ by 18h (assuming the curfew etc etc) and got 5.3 which makes - according to my rough estimates-
one transborder flight every 11.3 minutes. If domestic and international are included, what is the average takeoff frequency at YVR, please? Are the intervals between takeoffs constant, more or less, or do they vary at certain times of day? Thank you, anyone, who is willing to answer this question.:)

Go to flightradar24.com, click on the YVR airport icon, a window will open from the left side of your screen. Click on "departures" and count the number of departures/hour.

My guess. 35-40 departures during peak hours, 10-15 during non peak.

I thought it was all about China.

.....and the U.S ;)

trofirhen
Jan 21, 2018, 9:09 PM
Go to flightradar24.com, click on the YVR airport icon, a window will open from the left side of your screen. Click on "departures" and count the number of departures/hour.

My guess. 35-40 departures during peak hours, 10-15 during non peak.



.....and the U.S ;)

I did that, and saw the frequencies; works out to often two or three minutes +/- Sometimes, for a given reason, flight times are listed at the same time on three different destinations.
Airports A,B and C to destinations X,Y and Z. Then I had a look at Atlanta ... wow !! they're often lined up nose-to-tail, it would seem.

nname
Jan 22, 2018, 8:13 PM
Seems like the preliminary schedule is out according to a post in a Chinese forum... Arrival on Friday near noon... that gonna be fun :D

Maybe YVR still need remote stand in the summer...

Shenzhen - Tianjin - Vancouver

Eff. May 25, 2018

HU7959 SZX 0725 - 1025 TSN 1325 - 0930 YVR 330 15
HU7960 YVR 1130 - 1415+1 TSN 1645+1 - 1945+1 SZX 330 15

Johnny Aussie
Jan 22, 2018, 9:07 PM
Seems like the preliminary schedule is out according to a post in a Chinese forum... Arrival on Friday near noon... that gonna be fun :D

Maybe YVR still need remote stand in the summer...

Shenzhen - Tianjin - Vancouver

Eff. May 25, 2018

HU7959 SZX 0725 - 1025 TSN 1325 - 0930 YVR 330 15
HU7960 YVR 1130 - 1415+1 TSN 1645+1 - 1945+1 SZX 330 15

I was wondering when the start date and schedule was going to be announced.
On Fridays YVR will have Hainan, Hong Kong Airlines and Beijing Capital on the ground at the same time... similar liveries.

Hainan will be YVR’s 24th foreign overseas carrier, 7th Mainland Chinese carrier and 11th Chinese carrier (incl HK and ROC).

And with that goes the last two remaining allotments for mainland Chinese carriers to Canada.

That’s all folks! For now at least.

YVR's press release ---> http://www.yvr.ca/en/media/news-releases/2018/yvr-to-welcome-hainan-airlines-in-spring-2018

nname
Jan 22, 2018, 11:37 PM
YVR's press release ---> http://www.yvr.ca/en/media/news-releases/2018/yvr-to-welcome-hainan-airlines-in-spring-2018

Interesting... I did not see it on Hainan's PR or website, but only a forum post and a third party news website posted 11 hours ago. I thought that was leaked news :D

LeftCoaster
Jan 23, 2018, 1:08 AM
Happy to see that one finally firmed up, was years of rumours in the making.

Also, looks like they will be running it with A330-300s according to the YVR release, a 32% capacity increase over the 330-200 they were rumoured to be starting with.

Good news all around!

zahav
Jan 23, 2018, 7:54 AM
I posted about this in the Canada Airport thread. We all know how much the rest of Canada likes to celebrate YVR's gains (heavily sarcastic for those who don't visit that thread!):

I know some of you (thenoflyzone) will love this news haha, Hainan Airlines announced today new service to Shenzhen via Tianjin from YVR. 13 cities served direct from YVR to mainland China: Beijing, Chengdu, Guangzhou, Hangzhou, Kunming, Nanjing, Qindao, Shanghai, Shenyang, Shenzhen, Tianjin, Xiamen, and Zhengzhou. Total of 7 mainland carriers (Air China, Beijing Capital, China Eastern, China Southern, Hainan, Sichuan, and Xiamen) plus Air Canada. If you add in Hong Kong and Taipei (controversially "Greater China") then total destinations is 15 and carriers up to 11 total (Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, EVA Air, and Hong Kong Airlines).

Reading that cities list is really crazy. Hard to believe they are all served from YVR. I started working at the airport in 2003 and quickly developed a big interest in anything airport/airline related. I think back to those days (which was a low point for YVR post 9/11 and very anemic growth) and then to now, and just how many more carriers and destinations we have. Now that the allocations are filled, thinking about what other cities we might see if there were open skies (not that I want that, just out of curiosity). Looking at Sydney as a "western" city with major ties, they have the following cities we don't have: Changsha, Haikou (begins 31 January 2018), Xi'an, and Fuzhou. LAX has Chongqing and Jinan. You can bet some of these would come to YVR if the cap was lifted. This whole thing has been a major geography lesson for me, I had no idea the amount of "secondary" cities of major size there were.

Now let's hope for a South American link and that announcement from Turkish. Chinese, Middle Eastern, and Latin American new routes altogether would be nice a well rounded. I think the SA isn't imment, but Turkish is definitely on the horizon unless circumstances change

Johnny Aussie
Jan 23, 2018, 9:03 AM
Reading that cities list is really crazy. Hard to believe they are all served from YVR. I started working at the airport in 2003 and quickly developed a big interest in anything airport/airline related. I think back to those days (which was a low point for YVR post 9/11 and very anemic growth) and then to now, and just how many more carriers and destinations we have. Now that the allocations are filled, thinking about what other cities we might see if there were open skies (not that I want that, just out of curiosity). Looking at Sydney as a "western" city with major ties, they have the following cities we don't have: Changsha, Haikou (begins 31 January 2018), Xi'an, and Fuzhou. LAX has Chongqing and Jinan. You can bet some of these would come to YVR if the cap was lifted. This whole thing has been a major geography lesson for me, I had no idea the amount of "secondary" cities of major size there were.

Now let's hope for a South American link and that announcement from Turkish. Chinese, Middle Eastern, and Latin American new routes altogether would be nice a well rounded. I think the SA isn't imment, but Turkish is definitely on the horizon unless circumstances change

MEL is also another "western" city with huge Chinese ties. MEL is served by 9 mainland Chinese carriers: all the mainland Chinese carriers serving YVR does PLUS Shanghai Airlines (operates one of the daily MEL-PVG flights on behalf of MU) and Tianjin Airlines. MEL also has Changsha, Xi'an and Chongqing. However MEL doesn't have Tianjin, Kunming or Nanjing. Although I hear Kunming, Nanjing and possibly Wuhan aren't far away. Zengzhou is the only secondary Chinese destination served by an Aussie airline, Jetstar.

So I'd have to say outside of Asia, Vancouver, Sydney and Melbourne are by far the most connected to China.

osirisboy
Jan 23, 2018, 4:21 PM
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/embargoed-yvr-accelerates-expansion-on-soaring-passenger-count-that-hit-24-1-million-in-2017

Article mentions 29 million passengers for 2020 also I like how Craig richmond acknowledges how it's "it's just weird" that there are no connections to South America. Hopefully we see some growth there

nname
Jan 23, 2018, 5:20 PM
So, it went from "we do not need remote stand this summer" earlier this year to "expanded remote stand operation with two locations and four regular flights." Last year there was only two flights. I wonder what's changed since then...

s211
Jan 23, 2018, 5:32 PM
So I'd have to say outside of Asia, Vancouver, Sydney and Melbourne are by far the most connected to China.

And who has some of the most over-priced housing markets on the planet?

Thread derailed! :runaway:

(No need to respond. I just had to get that out of my system.)

Johnny Aussie
Jan 23, 2018, 7:26 PM
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/embargoed-yvr-accelerates-expansion-on-soaring-passenger-count-that-hit-24-1-million-in-2017

Article mentions 29 million passengers for 2020 also I like how Craig richmond acknowledges how it's "it's just weird" that there are no connections to South America. Hopefully we see some growth there

Although YVR hasn’t posted the full year 2017 stats on its website yet the article does state full year increase was 8.4% to 24.1 million, up 1.9 million total passengers. Sounds like his drive now is to get South American destinations. He specifically mentions Lima, Santiago and Buenos Aires (ala ye olde CP Air run).

thenoflyzone
Jan 23, 2018, 7:57 PM
It's not really weird why YVR doesn't have South American service. Same reason why SEA or DEN don't have any. O&D isn't strong enough, stage lengths are enormous (especially to GRU), and connections alone won't make the flight profitable. Airframe usage goes down significantly on a North America-South America run, which also doesn't help YVR's case.

Not saying YVR will never get any new flights to SA, but there are obstacles to overcome.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 23, 2018, 8:50 PM
It's not really weird why YVR doesn't have South American service. Same reason why SEA or DEN don't have any. O&D isn't strong enough, stage lengths are enormous (especially to GRU), and connections alone won't make the flight profitable. Airframe usage goes down significantly on a North America-South America run, which also doesn't help YVR's case.

Not saying YVR will never get any new flights to SA, but there are obstacles to overcome.

South America O&D is actually getting very strong. Possibly strong enough to warrant direct flights.... probably on the cusp of viability.
YVR’s best bet may be a fifth freedom link with an Asian carrier like CZ to MEX.

YVR-MEX has just exploded in the last two years... a good indication of strong markets to Latin America but the targets of LIM and SCL probably aren’t quite there yet.

Gordon
Jan 23, 2018, 8:57 PM
How about direct flights to South East Asia.

I'm surprised there will be more need for remote stand use this year seeing that there will be 1 extra gate (D59) & more use of D75.

nname
Jan 23, 2018, 9:42 PM
How about direct flights to South East Asia.

I'm surprised there will be more need for remote stand use this year seeing that there will be 1 extra gate (D59) & more use of D75.

SEA might be a bit hard as the TPAC tickets are very very cheap right now...

And not only there will be remote stand, they will need TWO this year. Last year they only need one (D59) and have two for backup (D60, E85). This year they need D60, D61, D62?

Still, that doesn't add up because AMS moved away from busiest time, and PR to YYZ no longer stops here... that compensate the increase from AC and HU...


South America O&D is actually getting very strong. Possibly strong enough to warrant direct flights.... probably on the cusp of viability.
YVR’s best bet may be a fifth freedom link with an Asian carrier like CZ to MEX.

YVR-MEX has just exploded in the last two years... a good indication of strong markets to Latin America but the targets of LIM and SCL probably aren’t quite there yet.

Not South America yet, but I still think we'll see COPA to PTY once they got their new 737MAX. YVR is outside of the range of their current fleet right now...

excel
Jan 23, 2018, 11:05 PM
It's not really weird why YVR doesn't have South American service. Same reason why SEA or DEN don't have any. O&D isn't strong enough, stage lengths are enormous (especially to GRU), and connections alone won't make the flight profitable. Airframe usage goes down significantly on a North America-South America run, which also doesn't help YVR's case.

Not saying YVR will never get any new flights to SA, but there are obstacles to overcome.

I beg to differ. Between my classes at school and the customers at my job it is absolutely overwhelmed with Brazilians. They are coming up in ridiculous numbers with work/student/visit visas. BCIT is currently going down and recruiting students at at high schools. The majority of the Brazilians are from Sao Paulo so I'm sure the O/D for that route exists. The Colombians are also starting to come up in large numbers.

casper
Jan 23, 2018, 11:33 PM
I beg to differ. Between my classes at school and the customers at my job it is absolutely overwhelmed with Brazilians. They are coming up in ridiculous numbers with work/student/visit visas. BCIT is currently going down and recruiting students at at high schools. The majority of the Brazilians are from Sao Paulo so I'm sure the O/D for that route exists. The Colombians are also starting to come up in large numbers.

I wonder how much of the extra traffic is the "Trump" effect and how much of it would naturally have occurred.

Given the tight links between Japan and Brazil it would be interesting to see what develops especially as we add more and more flight to secondary destinations in Japan.

thenoflyzone
Jan 23, 2018, 11:48 PM
Sounds like his drive now is to get South American destinations. He specifically mentions Lima, Santiago and Buenos Aires (ala ye olde CP Air run).

What I do find "weird" is the fact that he didn't mention Sao Paulo, which is probably the largest SA market from YVR.

trofirhen
Jan 23, 2018, 11:54 PM
It's not really weird why YVR doesn't have South American service. Same reason why SEA or DEN don't have any. O&D isn't strong enough, stage lengths are enormous (especially to GRU), and connections alone won't make the flight profitable. Airframe usage goes down significantly on a North America-South America run, which also doesn't help YVR's case.

Not saying YVR will never get any new flights to SA, but there are obstacles to overcome.

Several years back on this very thread, don't ask me to find it please; Johnny (if I'm correct) stated that he was both pleased and surprised at
how many O/D pax there were between YVR and Brasil. Apparently very large Japanese community in São Paulo. Only 44 miles further than via YYZ, from Tokyo. Could this work?

SpongeG
Jan 24, 2018, 12:11 AM
There are lots of Brazilians here, I befriended one, he didn't like that he has to fly to Toronto first, apparently many feel the same way. He said one of the reasons why they come to Canada is some famous Brazilian's daughter came here and had made a TV show or something about her time here and it really took off after that. He's been here at least 6 or 7 years now. Going from ESL school to university.

Youtube is full of vlogs from Brazilians on long extended stays in Canada. English schools are a thriving business in the city. Saudis are another large group, estimated to be in the 5000 range for students coming to Vancouver. I made a friend with one and he was saying after 911 Canada became the first choice for overseas studying. They get free money to go study abroad from the government.

trofirhen
Jan 24, 2018, 12:43 AM
There are lots of Brazilians here, I befriended one, he didn't like that he has to fly to Toronto first, apparently many feel the same way. He said one of the reasons why they come to Canada is some famous Brazilian's daughter came here and had made a TV show or something about her time here and it really took off after that. He's been here at least 6 or 7 years now. Going from ESL school to university.

Youtube is full of vlogs from Brazilians on long extended stays in Canada. English schools are a thriving business in the city. Saudis are another large group, estimated to be in the 5000 range for students coming to Vancouver. I made a friend with one and he was saying after 911 Canada became the first choice for overseas studying. They get free money to go study abroad from the government.

This seems to add reason for a YVR-GRU flight. (It would connect with Asian, particularly Japanese, flight pax, I'm sure) For Saudi pax, IST would seem a good M.E.-YVR connexion point.

nname
Jan 24, 2018, 5:35 AM
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/embargoed-yvr-accelerates-expansion-on-soaring-passenger-count-that-hit-24-1-million-in-2017

Article mentions 29 million passengers for 2020 also I like how Craig richmond acknowledges how it's "it's just weird" that there are no connections to South America. Hopefully we see some growth there

I watched the BOT presentation posted on twitter, and there's a talk about the creation of "East Apron Remote Stands" at the existing Jet Set parking lot that can hold up to 10 planes. I guess remote stands will be here to stay permanently.

mezzanine
Jan 24, 2018, 6:02 AM
Yeah, skimmed the BoT presentation.

-the "east apron remote stands" will be built where the jet set parking is currently. A novel thing here is the use of electric buses. On the diagram below it will be built on the lot east of pier f:

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/images/construction/terminal-expansion-map.jpg?h=728&w=999&la=en&hash=FC0BFC40BF10CDCFE81510141C65591CE82032FD
source (http://www.yvr.ca/en/passengers/construction/terminal-expansions)

-speaking of pier f, it showed some brief conceptuals of the new pier. work will get underway soon.
-full steam ahead for pier d, as with the new parking an utilities building.
-craig richmond really talked up flight banking and used AC's australia bank as an example in his presentation. IMO I suspect AC is making a lot of hay with east coast transfer traffic to australia; to that end i hope that IAD can be a future add. i hope even adding SIN to the oceania bank may become feasible.
-YVR is also gunning for a south american flight. if growth to MEX is any indicator as craig richmond points out, this would be a natural next step.
-not sure why they pulled the conceptuals for the new parking and central utilities from YVR;s site, but here is a re-post from a few pages back:

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/images/construction/newparkade.jpg?h=381&w=700&la=en&hash=8D9E8959A2EAF4D2EF98025D92E95086A2A8DE43
new parking expansion is to the left of the red elevated walkway. The central utlities is the teal building further left.

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/images/construction/cub-rendering.png?la=en&hash=4ACB2D21AFA53C56253F08219AEC7FE39369D64C

mezzanine
Jan 24, 2018, 6:23 AM
It's not really weird why YVR doesn't have South American service. Same reason why SEA or DEN don't have any. O&D isn't strong enough, stage lengths are enormous (especially to GRU), and connections alone won't make the flight profitable. Airframe usage goes down significantly on a North America-South America run, which also doesn't help YVR's case.

Not saying YVR will never get any new flights to SA, but there are obstacles to overcome.

I dunno, chinese airlines have subsidies that make it more immune to economics (https://centreforaviation.com/insights/analysis/chinas-airlines-growing-presence-in-latin-america-china-eastern-considers-mexico-city-347990), but there are not enough 5th freedoms from canada for Chinese airlines. YVR is playing a balancing game with lobbying for more fifth freedom rights for chinese airlines and keeping AC happy for now. At least until WS gets its 787s.

I dunno if CA has considered moving its 5th freedom flight to havana from montreal to europe and using the freed-up 5th freedom leg to serve south america from YVR.

Of course AC can step up, maybe to LIM/SCE but we will see.


Chinese airlines are turning their focus to Latin America at the direction of their government, which wants a global presence from its airlines. Air China serves São Paulo and Havana (which it considers part of Latin America), and in Apr-2017 China Southern launched Mexico City as a tag from Vancouver.
....
Growing examples of Chinese airline service to Latin America reflect a number of themes in Chinese aviation: profit is hardly the sole metric to evaluate value from an airline; there is a core central role of the government in airline planning; and there is a growing confidence of Chinese airlines to fly nearly anywhere.
...
With limited opportunities to fly nonstop from China to Latin America, intermediate stopover points will be used for most Chinese airline services. This creates an opportunity for airports and countries to secure more flights. The pitch is more difficult, since the commercial plan is more complex and the airport needs its government to line up stopover and, ideally, fifth freedom rights.

Beyond traffic rights have often been an afterthought in China's air services negotiations. Although some foreign airlines may begrudgingly accept that their governments will grant broad third and fourth freedom traffic rights to China, fifth freedom rights are more contentious.

For example, Canadian airports (Vancouver especially) would like Chinese airlines to use Canada as a stopover en route to Latin America, but airports have to balance this prospective offer with the wishes of Air Canada. Canadian airports are tied to Air Canada for their lifeblood, and upsetting Air Canada could mean that they lose services.

Canada provides another example of complexity, in that beyond rights are limited. China has not succeeded in securing more third and fourth freedom traffic rights, so asking for more fifth freedom rights could result in them needing to reduce third/fourth freedom requests, or be prepared to offer more to the other party in exchange. Besides the matter of stopover rights, there is the matter of whether through transit is possible (complex in Canada, and not possible in the US).

....
Air China has China's oldest service to Latin America and the country's only service to lower South America. Air China opened Beijing-Madrid-São Paulo service in 2006. Air China flies the route twice weekly with the 787-9. Air China is the only remaining Asian airline in South America – after Korean Air and Singapore Airlines exited Brazil.

Air China also flies to Havana. Although Cuba is technically part of North America, China considers Cuba part of Latin America from a strategic and cultural perspective.

In Sep-2015 Air China started Beijing-Montreal service and in Dec-2015 it continued the flight to Havana. Air China did not launch the Havana tag at the same time as Montreal because it was apparently trying to persuade Beijing that the Havana tag should not be offered (or at least without a significant subsidy). The argument was run that it would be extremely unprofitable, and require large asset utilisation.

Beijing, however, wanted a Cuba service for geopolitical reasons. As an indicator of the route's viability, Air China launched Havana three times weekly but then cut services to a mere once weekly flight, despite offering Beijing-Montreal four times a week.

Although Air China is one of the country's three state owned airlines it is the only "flag carrier", and consequently has to fly more geopolitically important routes than do China Eastern or China Southern.

thenoflyzone
Jan 24, 2018, 1:53 PM
I dunno if CA has considered moving its 5th freedom flight to havana from montreal to europe and using the freed-up 5th freedom leg to serve south america from YVR.

The SA route with the highest yield would be PEK-YVR-GRU, and since CA already serves GRU via MAD, they are probably not interested in the former.

PEK-MAD-GRU is also much shorter than PEK-YVR-GRU, and the local 5th freedom on MAD-GRU much larger, albeit with competition on the route.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=pek-gru%2C+pek-mad-gru%2C+pek-yvr-gru&MS=wls&DU=mi

thenoflyzone
Jan 24, 2018, 2:13 PM
South America O&D is actually getting very strong. Possibly strong enough to warrant direct flights.... probably on the cusp of viability.
YVR’s best bet may be a fifth freedom link with an Asian carrier like CZ to MEX.

YVR-MEX has just exploded in the last two years... a good indication of strong markets to Latin America but the targets of LIM and SCL probably aren’t quite there yet.

As per Mezzanine's link, CZ doesn't have 5th freedom rights on YVR-MEX.

And YVR-MEX "exploding" has less to do with YVR and more to do with the Canada-Mexico visa restrictions being eased. YUL-MEX and YYZ-MEX have seen similar increases.

AM is simply playing "catch up" to where they were supposed to be in terms of frequency if the visa requirement never happened. The "Trump" effect is not negligible either.

And more importantly, none of this has anything to do with South America. Unlike Mexico, most South Americans need visas to enter Canada, except for Chile and French Guiana. Brazilians require an eTA.

As I said, I think eventually YVR might see South American service. GRU has higher chances compared to LIM, SCL or EZE. If it will happen, I think AC has as many chances as an Asian carrier of being the operator.

I say that because AC will want to leverage it's TPAC hub at YVR with more feed, and SA is a gap in YVR's network that AC will want to tap into, when the yields are right. Also because 5th freedom flights are rare these days. YUL has one for political reasons only, nothing more.

Gordon
Jan 24, 2018, 3:47 PM
Any idea when these remote stand will be in use?

They will take place of the current international remote stands i assume.

mezzanine
Jan 24, 2018, 4:22 PM
As per Mezzanine's link, CZ doesn't have 5th freedom rights on YVR-MEX.

And YVR-MEX "exploding" has less to do with YVR and more to do with the Canada-Mexico visa restrictions being eased. YUL-MEX and YYZ-MEX have seen similar increases.

AM is simply playing "catch up" to where they were supposed to be in terms of frequency if the visa requirement never happened. The "Trump" effect is not negligible either.

And more importantly, none of this has anything to do with South America. Unlike Mexico, most South Americans need visas to enter Canada, except for Chile and French Guiana. Brazilians require an eTA.

As I said, I think eventually YVR might see South American service. GRU has higher chances compared to LIM, SCL or EZE. If it will happen, I think AC has as many chances as an Asian carrier of being the operator.

I say that because AC will want to leverage it's TPAC hub at YVR with more feed, and SA is a gap in YVR's network that AC will want to tap into, when the yields are right. Also because 5th freedom flights are rare these days. YUL has one for political reasons only, nothing more.

Doesnt YVR has more non stop flights than YUL to MEX? in all fairness, growth in YVR MEX has been more robust than expected if that is correct.

CA's flight to GRU has matured but i still wonder about revenue and if potential revenues would increased if thru YVR, even with the greater length. The west coast of SA i hope would have more viability for AC. CA service to LIM /SCE via YVR would be a negative for potential AC service from YVR, IMO.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 24, 2018, 7:36 PM
Yes when WS starts MEX. YVR-MEX will have as many flights as YYZ-MEX.

AC doesn’t fly YUL-MEX daily either.

Remote stands have become a way of life here in MEL too. At least YVR is actually looking forward and not sideways as MEL really copes with its recent growth. The 4 contact gates doesn’t seem enough though does it? MEL is bursting at the seams without any definitive expansion plans despite talking about it over and over.

nname
Jan 24, 2018, 9:46 PM
Remote stands have become a way of life here in MEL too. At least YVR is actually looking forward and not sideways as MEL really copes with its recent growth. The 4 contact gates doesn’t seem enough though does it? MEL is bursting at the seams without any definitive expansion plans despite talking about it over and over.

I think it should be fine as long as there are enough contact gates for night time departure and for winter season. It's probably quite wasteful to build all those gates and jet bridges that are only going to be used a couple of times a week at busiest time during the 3 summer months....

thenoflyzone
Jan 25, 2018, 12:12 AM
Doesnt YVR has more non stop flights than YUL to MEX?

marginally, yes.

AM is 2x daily to each of YUL, YYZ, YVR as of summer 2017. They are daily to YYC. (AM, after abandoning Canada (YUL/YYZ) altogether in January 2010 due to visa requirements, re-launched YUL as its exclusive Canadian gateway from late 2010 to 2015. They relaunched YYZ and started YVR in 2015)

4O lauched YUL mid-July 2017 (3x weekly CUN/MEX), followed closely by YYZ (4x weekly CUN/MEX) at the end of July, and then in October launched YVR (4x weekly CUN/MEX).

AC is 2x daily on YYZ-MEX, daily on YVR-MEX, and resumed summer seasonal 4x weekly on YUL-MEX in 2015 (now year round).

WS will start 3x weekly YVR-MEX and 4x weekly YYC-MEX in march 2018.

So all 4 Canadian airports have seen tremendous MEX increases in the last few years, due to 1 thing mainly, lifting of visa restrictions.

Yes when WS starts MEX. YVR-MEX will have as many flights as YYZ-MEX.


AC is 2x daily (B763/A319) on YYZ-MEX and only daily A319 on YVR-MEX. Even with WS starting 3x weekly YVR-MEX, YYZ-MEX is still larger both by pax count and frequency.

mezzanine
Jan 25, 2018, 1:38 AM
marginally, yes.
....

So all 4 Canadian airports have seen tremendous MEX increases in the last few years, due to 1 thing mainly, lifting of visa restrictions.
...
AC is 2x daily (B763/A319) on YYZ-MEX and only daily A319 on YVR-MEX. Even with WS starting 3x weekly YVR-MEX, YYZ-MEX is still larger both by pax count and frequency.

lol, it's like pulling teeth! ;)

Johnny Aussie
Jan 25, 2018, 3:57 AM
lol, it's like pulling teeth! ;)

WS bumps both YVR and YYC to Daily 29 April year-Round. They start out in March with 3 weekly each.

YVR will then match YYZ for the number of weekly flights to MEX.

YVR 32
YYZ 32
YUL 21
YYC 14

AM is struggling with YYC though so not sure if that will last, especially when WS kicks off soon.

LeftCoaster
Jan 25, 2018, 11:50 PM
So, it went from "we do not need remote stand this summer" earlier this year to "expanded remote stand operation with two locations and four regular flights." Last year there was only two flights. I wonder what's changed since then...

I wonder if this means more flights to be announced? Unless there are some time shifts coming up it seems to indicate that there will be more demand at peak periods than previously expected.

Could be non-international flight announcements putting some swing gates out of availability as well.

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/images/construction/terminal-expansion-map.jpg?h=728&w=999&la=en&hash=FC0BFC40BF10CDCFE81510141C65591CE82032FD
source (http://www.yvr.ca/en/passengers/construction/terminal-expansions)

-full steam ahead for pier d, as with the new parking an utilities building.

So what I don't quite understand is are they still doing the half buildout of Pier D or are they doing the whole thing at once now?

If they are still looking to phase it that really leaves me scratching my head.

Lancaster
Jan 26, 2018, 3:57 AM
So what I don't quite understand is are they still doing the half buildout of Pier D or are they doing the whole thing at once now?

If they are still looking to phase it that really leaves me scratching my head.

That drawing looks like there's a hammerhead at the end of Pier D. Would they not need to move the taxiway there then to make more gates fit?

trofirhen
Jan 26, 2018, 6:41 AM
What about Pier E? Willl that be extended too?
If so, will it be for Transborder departures, or is Transborder going into eastward Pier F East Concourse?

Jebby
Jan 26, 2018, 5:35 PM
KtwD8bhOhms



EDIT: NEVERMIND THIS WAS POSTED JANUARY 2017

For some reason I read the upload date as 2018...Sorry..

Johnny Aussie
Jan 26, 2018, 8:16 PM
A comparison was made between YVR and BNE a couple of years ago. Questioning why a city of similar size had a much busier airport than YVR. Both are relatively similarly located geographically in relation to their respective countries. I’m always the first to jump on comparisons based on city size alone.... but to put that to rest...

BNE had 22.2M pax in 2015 and 23.2M in 2017 up just over 1M
YVR had 20.3M pax in 2015 and 24.1M in 2017 up over 3.8M

Sheba
Jan 26, 2018, 11:38 PM
Bombardier wins unanimous vote at USITC (https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstories/bombardier-wins-unanimous-vote-at-usitc/ar-AAvdx0q)


WASHINGTON - The U.S. International Trade Commission has ruled in favour of Montreal's Bombardier Inc. in a trade dispute with Chicago-based Boeing Co.

Commissioners voted unanimously that Boeing did not suffer harm from prospective imports of C Series commercial jets.

The ruling means the anti-dumping and countervailing duties totalling 292.21 per cent that were imposed by the U.S. Department of Commerce won't be applied.

Bombardier called the decision "a victory for innovation, competition, and the rule of law."

The Montreal-based company also says it is a victory for U.S. airlines and the American travelling public.

Bombardier says it will now move to finalize its partnership with Airbus SE.

Chicago-based Boeing says it is disappointed by the decision and will review the commission's detailed opinions when they are released in the coming days.

It says it will continue to document any harm to Boeing from illegal subsidies and dumping pricing.

Boeing launched the trade case last April, arguing that governments in Canada and Britain subsidized the plane's development and allowed Bombardier to sell it at unfairly low prices.

Bombardier stock shot up 16 per cent to $3.56 immediately after the ruling.

SpongeG
Jan 26, 2018, 11:57 PM
saw this on facebook, you could fly whitehorse to new york direct!

https://scontent.fyxd1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26907165_1780597865579576_155653868903369639_n.jpg?oh=44f30efb4c22baa48be98a21c390675d&oe=5AE86BAB

thenoflyzone
Jan 27, 2018, 2:37 AM
Bombardier wins unanimous vote at USITC (https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstories/bombardier-wins-unanimous-vote-at-usitc/ar-AAvdx0q)

Thank God all this bullshit is over. Boeing must be kicking itself in the nuts right now !

BTW, of the four commissioners at USITC who voted, 3 were nominated by President Barack Obama and 1 by George W. Bush.

https://www.usitc.gov/press_room/bios.htm

Common sense prevails, and Trump wasn't involved, cause he has none !

CareerShow
Jan 27, 2018, 2:55 AM
Thank God all this bullshit is over. Boeing must be kicking itself in the nuts right now !

BTW, of the four commissioners at USITC who voted, 3 were nominated by President Barack Obama and 1 by George W. Bush.

https://www.usitc.gov/press_room/bios.htm

Common sense prevails, and Trump wasn't involved, cause he has none !

Doubt this will have any material effect on Boeing, it was worth a shot and they gambled and lost. The company's financial performance has been superb the last year, up over 100%, which implies the market doesn't seem to think this bodes overly horribly for the company's future financial outlook.

thenoflyzone
Jan 27, 2018, 3:04 AM
Doubt this will have any material effect on Boeing, it was worth a shot and they gambled and lost. The company's financial performance has been superb the last year, up over 100%, which implies the market doesn't seem to think this bodes overly horribly for the company's future financial outlook.

Whatever the case, their plan backfired, and that has repercussions, big or small. Canada already scraped the F-18 deal, worth over $6 billion. They pissed off the UK. They pissed off Delta, and that might have repercussions for future orders as well.

In essence, their complaint helped forge the deal between BBD and Airbus, solidifying Airbus's footprint in North America in the process.

Also, Boeing wouldn't have launched their outreach campaign to Canada (https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/boeing-launches-outreach-campaign-in-canada-650264503.html)if they didn't feel this was negatively impacting their image abroad.

Lancaster
Jan 27, 2018, 3:22 AM
Whatever the case, their plan backfired, and that has repercussions, big or small. Canada already scraped the F-18 deal, worth over $6 billion. They pissed off the UK. They pissed off Delta, and that might have repercussions for future orders as well.

In essence, their complaint helped forge the deal between BBD and Airbus, solidifying Airbus's footprint in North America in the process.

Also, Boeing wouldn't have launched their outreach campaign to Canada (https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/boeing-launches-outreach-campaign-in-canada-650264503.html)if they didn't feel this was negatively impacting their image abroad.

Pretty confident this hurt Bombardier more than it did Boeing. Airbus was already solidified in the US long before all of this. It basically paralyzed the CSeries program and loomed large over it for the entire duration of the dispute. Either way mission accomplished for Boeing.

CareerShow
Jan 27, 2018, 10:02 AM
Whatever the case, their plan backfired, and that has repercussions, big or small. Canada already scraped the F-18 deal, worth over $6 billion. They pissed off the UK. They pissed off Delta, and that might have repercussions for future orders as well.

In essence, their complaint helped forge the deal between BBD and Airbus, solidifying Airbus's footprint in North America in the process.

Also, Boeing wouldn't have launched their outreach campaign to Canada (https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/boeing-launches-outreach-campaign-in-canada-650264503.html)if they didn't feel this was negatively impacting their image abroad.

The Canadian government pulling the deal is rediculius since Canada will now be buying borderline unusable planes for billions which will just have to be replaced in the near future anyways. I doubt this will really deter delta from ordering in the future. With regards to the c series and Airbus, I don't recall one current order which has involved a mix of aircrafts. And Boeing is in talks to acquire embraer which would give the company an even greater step up over Airbus as they would fully be involved in the regional jet industry, not to mention the consolidation of the business jet industry

thenoflyzone
Jan 27, 2018, 12:48 PM
The Canadian government pulling the deal is rediculius since Canada will now be buying borderline unusable planes for billions which will just have to be replaced in the near future anyways. I doubt this will really deter delta from ordering in the future. With regards to the c series and Airbus, I don't recall one current order which has involved a mix of aircrafts. And Boeing is in talks to acquire embraer which would give the company an even greater step up over Airbus as they would fully be involved in the regional jet industry, not to mention the consolidation of the business jet industry

The Australian F-18s is another matter.

Boeing buying Embraer is nothing more than a retaliation towards BBD/Airbus. It's not a strong move if you ask me, as it is by no means a home run scenario for them, unlike the Airbus/BBD linkup, which benefits both players immensely.

The E175-E2 sales are suffering due to ongoing US scope clauses. So those planes aren't selling in Embraer's most important market, the US, which is why they have delayed service entry of that type until 2021.

Airlines who own the E190, seen as eventual buyers of the E190-E2, are dumping their planes in favor of the CSeries. (Air Canada is an example, Jetblue might be another, as they have delayed their decision of getting rid of the E190s, probably waiting for the USITC ruling). Delta was supposed to get the used AC E190s, and decided to go with the CSeries as well. AA will dump 20 E190s by 2019. Clearly, Embraer has issues of it's own to deal with.

As for mixed orders, the tie-up just happened. With the duties/tarrifs looming, no North American carrier was going to order the CSeries. Now that the duties/tarrifs are a thing of the past, i fully expect airlines like JetBlue to seriously consider the CSeries as replacement for their 100 seat planes. Mixed aircraft orders are extremely likely for an airline like them.

So again, I don't think Boeing really wants Embraer, but was rather forced into that corner by Airbus/BBD. Either way, they are definitely worse off now than before their complaint was filed.

I doubt this will really deter delta from ordering in the future.

They already dealt Boeing a heavy blow with a 100 Airbus plane order last month. Ed Bastian is a tough guy and was vocal about his spat with Boeing. Orders like this in the future would not surprise me, especially if Ed will stick around at DL for the long haul. I definitely see them topping up their A350 order before going the way of the dreamliner.

http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2017/12/delta-air-lines-places-order-for-100-a321neo-acf-aircraft.html

Pretty confident this hurt Bombardier more than it did Boeing. Airbus was already solidified in the US long before all of this. It basically paralyzed the CSeries program and loomed large over it for the entire duration of the dispute. Either way mission accomplished for Boeing.

Boeing simply delayed American carriers ordering the CSeries. Nothing more. JetBlue delayed their E190 replacement. They didn't go ahead and order Boeing. So its not like they shut the CSeries program down. If anything, they helped the program get a new lifeline. Yes, mission accomplished indeed....

As i said, Boeing is definitely worse off now than before their complaint was filed. Yes, this whole scenario wasn't pleasant for BBD, but now that it's over, they have a chance to flourish when CSeries sales pick up (and they will). Boeing's future in the 100-150 seat segment looks unclear, for all the reasons mentioned above, plus the fact that their own Max 7 isn't selling well at all, with only 63 orders.

Airbus, on the other hand, took care of their A319neo sale problems, by means of acquiring the CSeries.

Boeing is scratching itself in the head right now, thinking about where they went wrong. They left billions on the table (Canada F-18s, Delta order, most likely future orders as well). Dumb move.

They should have partnered up with BBD, or built their own 100-150 seat plane. Now, that market seems firmly in the hands of Airbus/BBD.

trofirhen
Jan 27, 2018, 10:38 PM
Craig Richmond gave an interesting speech about the blasting increase in pax numbers, naturally, a discussion of remote stands and other growth issues.
He seemed particulary interested, if not rather pre-occupied, with getting South America routes. He cited the necessity to liminate visas as was done with Mexico, and to renogotiate bilaterls allowing SA-YVR nonstops (à la YYZ:rolleyes:) so South American flights are definitely part of the overall YVR game plan, it seems.
If AC defintelely does not want to start SA services to YVR (&vice versa) and if only a rouge to Lima as with YUL, may be offered, is it not possible that this is to protect YYZ yields?
If the feds (and let's face it, AC and that agreement between AC and the GTAA is still their baby) want to protect YYZ-AC revenues to SA, it'll show up in the next round of renegotaitions.

trofirhen
Jan 27, 2018, 10:44 PM
A comparison was made between YVR and BNE a couple of years ago. Questioning why a city of similar size had a much busier airport than YVR. Both are relatively similarly located geographically in relation to their respective countries. I’m always the first to jump on comparisons based on city size alone.... but to put that to rest...

BNE had 22.2M pax in 2015 and 23.2M in 2017 up just over 1M
YVR had 20.3M pax in 2015 and 24.1M in 2017 up over 3.8M

YVR has indeed had more spectacular increases than BNE. Yet I don't think BNE is quite as "world-connected" as Vancouver.
I still cannot understand the very (in comparison) high levels there. Is more inter-city travel done by plane than by bus or train in Australia?
Could I ask for an insight? Thank you.:)

Johnny Aussie
Jan 27, 2018, 11:40 PM
As more North American airports post their full year 2017 stats it looks like YVR will move up the ladder for total intl pax as YVR passes through 12.4M international pax.

Having already passed IAH, YVR will finish at either 7th or 8th place as it leaps over ATL and will be oh so close to passing ORD in fact YVR may just pip ORD. Imagine YVR having more international passengers than ORD!?

1) JFK
2) YYZ
3) LAX
4) MIA
5) SFO
6) EWR
7) YVR or ORD
8) ORD or YVR

moosejaw
Jan 28, 2018, 3:16 AM
As more North American airports post their full year 2017 stats it looks like YVR will move up the ladder for total intl pax as YVR passes through 12.4M international pax.


Does 12.4M include US transborder?

Johnny Aussie
Jan 28, 2018, 4:10 AM
Does 12.4M include US transborder?

Of course it does. Total international... US cities only record total international.... plus they have two borders for transborder :P a lot of those southern US cities would have WAY more traffic to Mexico than Canada as well (eg DFW, IAH, ATL, LAX, MIA etc)

CareerShow
Jan 28, 2018, 4:29 AM
The Australian F-18s is another matter.

Boeing buying Embraer is nothing more than a retaliation towards BBD/Airbus. It's not a strong move if you ask me, as it is by no means a home run scenario for them, unlike the Airbus/BBD linkup, which benefits both players immensely.

The E175-E2 sales are suffering due to ongoing US scope clauses. So those planes aren't selling in Embraer's most important market, the US, which is why they have delayed service entry of that type until 2021.

Airlines who own the E190, seen as eventual buyers of the E190-E2, are dumping their planes in favor of the CSeries. (Air Canada is an example, Jetblue might be another, as they have delayed their decision of getting rid of the E190s, probably waiting for the USITC ruling). Delta was supposed to get the used AC E190s, and decided to go with the CSeries as well. AA will dump 20 E190s by 2019. Clearly, Embraer has issues of it's own to deal with.

As for mixed orders, the tie-up just happened. With the duties/tarrifs looming, no North American carrier was going to order the CSeries. Now that the duties/tarrifs are a thing of the past, i fully expect airlines like JetBlue to seriously consider the CSeries as replacement for their 100 seat planes. Mixed aircraft orders are extremely likely for an airline like them.

So again, I don't think Boeing really wants Embraer, but was rather forced into that corner by Airbus/BBD. Either way, they are definitely worse off now than before their complaint was filed.



They already dealt Boeing a heavy blow with a 100 Airbus plane order last month. Ed Bastian is a tough guy and was vocal about his spat with Boeing. Orders like this in the future would not surprise me, especially if Ed will stick around at DL for the long haul. I definitely see them topping up their A350 order before going the way of the dreamliner.

http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2017/12/delta-air-lines-places-order-for-100-a321neo-acf-aircraft.html



Boeing simply delayed American carriers ordering the CSeries. Nothing more. JetBlue delayed their E190 replacement. They didn't go ahead and order Boeing. So its not like they shut the CSeries program down. If anything, they helped the program get a new lifeline. Yes, mission accomplished indeed....

As i said, Boeing is definitely worse off now than before their complaint was filed. Yes, this whole scenario wasn't pleasant for BBD, but now that it's over, they have a chance to flourish when CSeries sales pick up (and they will). Boeing's future in the 100-150 seat segment looks unclear, for all the reasons mentioned above, plus the fact that their own Max 7 isn't selling well at all, with only 63 orders.

Airbus, on the other hand, took care of their A319neo sale problems, by means of acquiring the CSeries.

Boeing is scratching itself in the head right now, thinking about where they went wrong. They left billions on the table (Canada F-18s, Delta order, most likely future orders as well). Dumb move.

They should have partnered up with BBD, or built their own 100-150 seat plane. Now, that market seems firmly in the hands of Airbus/BBD.


One of the main metrics I am basing my findings on is the stock market, in which boeing was up over 100% last year as a blue chip company, which was enough to be one of the top performing stocks in the US. This is taking into account all of the information you have provided, and the market takes into account the future financials of these news stories. Fact of the matter is, a large part of this stock growth is the possible merger between Embraer and Boeing. And just like how Airbus has / will help the C-series, Boeing would most likely have the exact same effect on the E-jet series. This isn't taking into account as well the other divisions of Embraer which Boeing would gain unlike Airbus who just own 50% of the C-series program.

thenoflyzone
Jan 28, 2018, 2:54 PM
does 12.4m include us transborder?

lol

thenoflyzone
Jan 28, 2018, 4:05 PM
One of the main metrics I am basing my findings on is the stock market, in which boeing was up over 100% last year as a blue chip company, which was enough to be one of the top performing stocks in the US. This is taking into account all of the information you have provided, and the market takes into account the future financials of these news stories. Fact of the matter is, a large part of this stock growth is the possible merger between Embraer and Boeing. And just like how Airbus has / will help the C-series, Boeing would most likely have the exact same effect on the E-jet series. This isn't taking into account as well the other divisions of Embraer which Boeing would gain unlike Airbus who just own 50% of the C-series program.

So you're basing your findings on speculation? Because that's what the stock market is. Nothing more.

Let's stay clear of speculative information shall we....

Unlike the Airbus/BBD tie-up, primarily about the CSeries, Boeing doesn't give two hoots about the E-Jets. The main reason why they would want to purchase Embraer is to get their hands on the engineering talent down there, that could help them build the 797.

Boeing learned a hard lesson with the 787. Having suppliers do the engineering work cost them dearly. Delays ensued, and when things didn't work out, they were forced to buy out the partner plants in South Carolina. All of this was a financial nightmare. Boeing will probably never recover all of its 787 investment.

To avoid a repeat of that debacle, Boeing is unlikely to be interested in having Embraer engineers help develop a new Boeing plane. They’d have to be Boeing engineers.

That is the only reason why Boeing is interested in Embraer.

excel
Jan 28, 2018, 10:34 PM
YVR makes it on to another top airport list.

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-beautiful-airports-in-the-world-2018-1

CareerShow
Jan 28, 2018, 11:49 PM
So you're basing your findings on speculation? Because that's what the stock market is. Nothing more.

Let's stay clear of speculative information shall we....

Unlike the Airbus/BBD tie-up, primarily about the CSeries, Boeing doesn't give two hoots about the E-Jets. The main reason why they would want to purchase Embraer is to get their hands on the engineering talent down there, that could help them build the 797.

Boeing learned a hard lesson with the 787. Having suppliers do the engineering work cost them dearly. Delays ensued, and when things didn't work out, they were forced to buy out the partner plants in South Carolina. All of this was a financial nightmare. Boeing will probably never recover all of its 787 investment.

To avoid a repeat of that debacle, Boeing is unlikely to be interested in having Embraer engineers help develop a new Boeing plane. They’d have to be Boeing engineers.

That is the only reason why Boeing is interested in Embraer.

And you are basing your findings on.......

Your comment relating to the stock market demonstrates your lack of knowledge in the area, as many companies are not valued on "speculation", but actual analysis of earnings and future cash flows. Boeing is certainly not a company that is wildly fuelled by speculation as they are a "blue chip" company, which typically means a slow growth, stable company, that can provide adequate, safe returns for investors.

Speculative investing are industries such as Crypto Currencies and Marijuana. You really think RBC, CIBC, Johnson & Johnson, Berkshire Hathaway, CN, Walmart etc. are all "fuelled" by speculation? These companies have tangible and reliable metrics of information which are quantifiable, thus the valuation of these firms. Boeing falls into this category of company without question.

What basis do you have to say Boeing has no interest in the E-jet? The aircraft serves a niche market Boeing currently does not compete in, thus increased sales, increased cash flow, and happy investors. The consolidation in the private and military jet space will help Boeing with regards to market presence, and pricing power as they will control more of the market, as well as adding additional technical expertise to the already incredible talent at the company.

787 numbers have been decent, and many of the "expense costs" can be written off as they are R&D etc. with special tax and accounting treatments. This move would be, assuming a good price, a great deal for the longterm future of Boeing.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 29, 2018, 12:02 AM
YVR makes it on to another top airport list.

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-beautiful-airports-in-the-world-2018-1

As it should. Still a beautiful airport to come home to!

Johnny Aussie
Jan 29, 2018, 3:26 AM
As soon as DL cut its YVR-LAX UA was quick to add a second daily this summer.

YVR-LAX back to 13 daily and UA back to 16 daily (17 on Saturdays)

Johnny Aussie
Jan 29, 2018, 4:28 AM
Full details to be released tomorrow but looks like WS will commence a shuttle type service on YVR-YYC every hour on the hour from 0600 to 2000 and 2200 so 16 daily flights.
Also YOW going to twice daily, YLW to 7 daily, YXJ to twice daily. Plus the new daily MEX.

More flights to YYZ and YEG as well.

Reductions on YXY (cut), YXU (cut) and YHM.

Overall WS ops will be over 560 flights per week or about 80 per day of which about 58 will be mainline.

casper
Jan 29, 2018, 5:17 AM
Full details to be released tomorrow but looks like WS will commence a shuttle type service on YVR-YYC every hour on the hour from 0600 to 2000 and 2200 so 16 daily flights.
Also YOW going to twice daily, YLW to 7 daily, YXJ to twice daily. Plus the new daily MEX.

More flights to YYZ and YEG as well.

Reductions on YXY (cut), YXU (cut) and YHM.

Overall WS ops will be over 560 flights per week or about 80 per day of which about 58 will be mainline.

Interesting. The Shuttle Service between Toronto and Montreal is called Simplicity. Similar to AC RapidAir.

https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/book-trip/business-travel/simplicity

I know AC a year or two back adopted a free standby for earlier flights on the YYC-YVR route. A RapidAir light type offering. I wonder if WestJet is doing the same or going all the way with a Simplicity branded service.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 29, 2018, 6:47 PM
Here is Westjet’s press release about the upcoming summer schedules.

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1319

Westjet is adding 60 flights per week and will operate over 80 flights per day.

I had highlighted most of the increases in my last post.

Gordon
Jan 30, 2018, 12:32 AM
Good increases from West Jet

I wonder if we will ever see YVR MIA again

YVR intends to use up to 3 East Apron Remote Stands this summer.(yvr customer service)

nname
Jan 30, 2018, 12:47 AM
Good increases from West Jet

I wonder if we will ever see YVR MIA again

YVR intends to use up to 3 East Apron Remote Stands this summer.(yvr customer service)

So it went from "we don't need any remote stand this year" late last year, to "two remote stand for four flights" mid-Jan, to "up to 3 remote stands" now... What's changed... :???:

The terminal map is updated on YVR website... Gates 56, 57, 62 added; gate 60 dropped; gate 59, 85 from last year remains.

Gates 55-59 seems rather crowded...

LeftCoaster
Jan 30, 2018, 1:14 AM
As more North American airports post their full year 2017 stats it looks like YVR will move up the ladder for total intl pax as YVR passes through 12.4M international pax.

Having already passed IAH, YVR will finish at either 7th or 8th place as it leaps over ATL and will be oh so close to passing ORD in fact YVR may just pip ORD. Imagine YVR having more international passengers than ORD!?

1) JFK
2) YYZ
3) LAX
4) MIA
5) SFO
6) EWR
7) YVR or ORD
8) ORD or YVR

I'm waiting on the final numbers and I'll update the chart I had before for top 12 (had to make it a full dozen to include YUL). With their growth I may just be able to do a top 10 now.

As soon as DL cut its YVR-LAX UA was quick to add a second daily this summer.

YVR-LAX back to 13 daily and UA back to 16 daily (17 on Saturdays)

14 Daily if you count Orange County :tup:

Here is Westjet’s press release about the upcoming summer schedules.

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1319

Westjet is adding 60 flights per week and will operate over 80 flights per day.

I had highlighted most of the increases in my last post.

This is great, YYC with a ton of adds and YVR with nearly as many! Not a single boost to transborder though, which is strange considering how strong it has been.

If they really want to start flying 787s out of YVR they better build up a little more feed for those planes to be full!

nname
Jan 30, 2018, 1:30 AM
14 Daily if you count Orange County :tup:

I wonder if AC will ever consider flying to ONT or LGB. It's more convenient than LAX for alot of the folks in that area... after all, ONT just got their first TPAC flight this year :D


This is great, YYC with a ton of adds and YVR with nearly as many! Not a single boost to transborder though, which is strange considering how strong it has been.

If they really want to start flying 787s out of YVR they better build up a little more feed for those planes to be full!

I'm not sure if WS even want to run their 787 to Asia now consider how many options YVR have and how cheap the fare is right now. Run them out of YYC they'll miss out millions of potential customers unless they can offer extremely low fare that worth the detour...

Johnny Aussie
Jan 30, 2018, 2:29 AM
I'm waiting on the final numbers and I'll update the chart I had before for top 12 (had to make it a full dozen to include YUL). With their growth I may just be able to do a top 10 now.

This is great, YYC with a ton of adds and YVR with nearly as many! Not a single boost to transborder though, which is strange considering how strong it has been.

If they really want to start flying 787s out of YVR they better build up a little more feed for those planes to be full!

Looking forward to your table(s).

Very little transborder additions from anywhere this round. Focus is really on domestic increases this summer.

787s won’t be flying until 2019 anyway so.....

Lancaster
Jan 30, 2018, 6:50 AM
I'm not sure if WS even want to run their 787 to Asia now consider how many options YVR have and how cheap the fare is right now. Run them out of YYC they'll miss out millions of potential customers unless they can offer extremely low fare that worth the detour...

It would take quite the discount for me to want to go YVR-YYC-Asia considering how cheap the flights are at YVR at the moment. And if they did, why not just shore up the O&D demand and place the flights at YVR?

nname
Jan 30, 2018, 5:29 PM
Surprised no one posted this yet:

Air Canada's 787 Dreamliner non-stop Vancouver-Delhi Flights Become Year-Round Beginning June 2018 (https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2018-01-30-Air-Canadas-787-Dreamliner-non-stop-Vancouver-Delhi-Flights-Become-Year-Round-Beginning-June-2018)

Eff 08JUN
AC44 YVR 0130 - 0400+1 DEL 787 x146
AC45 DEL 0610 - 0730 YVR 787 x257

trofirhen
Jan 30, 2018, 7:14 PM
Surprised no one posted this yet:

Air Canada's 787 Dreamliner non-stop Vancouver-Delhi Flights Become Year-Round Beginning June 2018 (https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2018-01-30-Air-Canadas-787-Dreamliner-non-stop-Vancouver-Delhi-Flights-Become-Year-Round-Beginning-June-2018)

Eff 08JUN
AC44 YVR 0130 - 0400+1 DEL 787 x146
AC45 DEL 0610 - 0730 YVR 787 x257

Wow, this is a quantum step forward! I'm surprised- and pleased - that it went to year-round so quickly!! It's also apparently the shortest way to India from the PNW!! Should be a hit:)

Johnny Aussie
Jan 30, 2018, 7:24 PM
Surprised no one posted this yet:

Air Canada's 787 Dreamliner non-stop Vancouver-Delhi Flights Become Year-Round Beginning June 2018 (https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2018-01-30-Air-Canadas-787-Dreamliner-non-stop-Vancouver-Delhi-Flights-Become-Year-Round-Beginning-June-2018)

Eff 08JUN
AC44 YVR 0130 - 0400+1 DEL 787 x146
AC45 DEL 0610 - 0730 YVR 787 x257

We were too busy counting all the new Westjet flights. In fact I don’t think Westjet took into account the new Comox or Nanaimo flights in their calcs as they were added in December. So the additions compared to last summer are more like 74 weekly flights. YVR will be about 72% mainline compared to about 64% at YYC and 58% at YEG.

Now for DEL....

That’s fantastic news and I’m a bit surprised going year round so early.

AC Intl is going to be busy this summer with the additional daily LHR, new year round MEL and new seasonal CDG and ZRH. AC mainline will be flying to 14 long haul destinations from YVR next summer up from 10 last summer.

Canadian74
Jan 30, 2018, 7:44 PM
Surprised no one posted this yet:

Air Canada's 787 Dreamliner non-stop Vancouver-Delhi Flights Become Year-Round Beginning June 2018 (https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2018-01-30-Air-Canadas-787-Dreamliner-non-stop-Vancouver-Delhi-Flights-Become-Year-Round-Beginning-June-2018)

Eff 08JUN
AC44 YVR 0130 - 0400+1 DEL 787 x146
AC45 DEL 0610 - 0730 YVR 787 x257


It was actually mentioned late August last year, I think this is just AC confirming with a press release. Good to see it will be 4 weekly

https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status/903303425164795904

SpongeG
Jan 30, 2018, 8:43 PM
UPDATED: WESTJET DOUBLING SERVICE BETWEEN FORT ST. JOHN AND VANCOUVER

UPDATE: WestJet spokesperson Lauren Stewart has clarified that WestJet will be increasing the frequency of flights between Fort St. John and Vancouver immediately. Stewart said that service will be increased to two flights per day on weekdays and once daily on Saturdays and Sundays. A previous version of this article stated that the increase in service frequency would come into effect this summer.

FORT ST. JOHN, B.C. — This morning WestJet announced that it will be doubling the number of flights between the North Peace Airport and Vancouver International Airport immediately.

...

https://www.energeticcity.ca/2018/01/westjet-doubling-service-fort-st-john-vancouver/

excel
Jan 30, 2018, 8:59 PM
UPDATED: WESTJET DOUBLING SERVICE BETWEEN FORT ST. JOHN AND VANCOUVER


Compliments of Site C dam approval.

SpongeG
Jan 30, 2018, 9:15 PM
i fly it once a month but use air canada. westjet options are bad, and when i have had to use it the plane is never full, i always get a row to myself. perhaps this will help them.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 30, 2018, 9:43 PM
Who doesn’t love a bit of “facts for the day”

Even with AC flying fewer domestic widebody flights this summer... with all the other additions, YVR will have approx 55 widebody flights per day this summer.

Those are big airport numbers! :haha::haha:

SpongeG
Jan 30, 2018, 10:26 PM
I watch travel vlogs usually on people visiting vancouver or people from vancouver going elsewhere. Quite a few of them seem to choose weird flight options or perhaps they have no other choice?

One was a woman from Vancouver going to London England, she flew Vancouver - Calgary - London, Why? i think it was with Air Canada, did she just choose the option based on departure time not realizing its not a direct flight? its easy to do when you book online and don't really pay attenton.

Anyway it seems so many people could choose direct to Vancouver or direct out of Vancouver options but they end up travelling via another Canadian city, usually with Air Canada. Is that pretty normal?

excel
Jan 30, 2018, 10:43 PM
^ A lot of the time connecting flights are cheaper than direct or the direct flight is sold out.

nname
Jan 30, 2018, 11:29 PM
... or they just want more miles for the same price :D

casper
Jan 31, 2018, 12:17 AM
I watch travel vlogs usually on people visiting vancouver or people from vancouver going elsewhere. Quite a few of them seem to choose weird flight options or perhaps they have no other choice?

One was a woman from Vancouver going to London England, she flew Vancouver - Calgary - London, Why? i think it was with Air Canada, did she just choose the option based on departure time not realizing its not a direct flight? its easy to do when you book online and don't really pay attenton.

Anyway it seems so many people could choose direct to Vancouver or direct out of Vancouver options but they end up travelling via another Canadian city, usually with Air Canada. Is that pretty normal?

Some times it is cheaper. Sometimes the person is trying to trade in miles and the number of seats available for redemption on any given flight is limited. Sometimes they work for an airline and have access to employee passes. Other times it is schedule.

I recently did a trip to Dallas last month, connected in Calgary since the non-stops were sold out of arrived at the wrong time of day.

LeftCoaster
Jan 31, 2018, 12:33 AM
Surprised no one posted this yet:

Air Canada's 787 Dreamliner non-stop Vancouver-Delhi Flights Become Year-Round Beginning June 2018 (https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2018-01-30-Air-Canadas-787-Dreamliner-non-stop-Vancouver-Delhi-Flights-Become-Year-Round-Beginning-June-2018)

Eff 08JUN
AC44 YVR 0130 - 0400+1 DEL 787 x146
AC45 DEL 0610 - 0730 YVR 787 x257

:fireworks::fireworks:

Great news!

Now we just hope they chip away at frequencies until it's daily year round, but this was the big win.

Also, according to some random name on A.net, during Benjamin Smith's press conference he dropped a hint about another Pacific destination that would be announced during the Olympics. Not sure AC has the frames available for that though?

LeftCoaster
Jan 31, 2018, 12:48 AM
Who doesn’t love a bit of “facts for the day”

Even with AC flying fewer domestic widebody flights this summer... with all the other additions, YVR will have approx 55 widebody flights per day this summer.

Those are big airport numbers! :haha::haha:

Hmm I must be missing a few, i get to 53.

I get:
- 43 proper international (incl CZ Mex)
- 2.6 transborder (AC Newark, PR JFK, CX JFK)
- 7 Domestic (5 AC YYZ, 2 AC YUL)

What am I missing?

YVR Bruce
Jan 31, 2018, 1:15 AM
Hmm I must be missing a few, i get to 53.


What am I missing?

Where did you count Rouge transborder, like B763 to LAS?

Johnny Aussie
Jan 31, 2018, 1:48 AM
Where did you count Rouge transborder, like B763 to LAS?

And Hawaii!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=suvRlu5TxpA

deasine
Jan 31, 2018, 1:58 AM
... or they just want more miles for the same price :D

...or they need more segments for next year's altitude status :rolleyes:

SpongeG
Jan 31, 2018, 4:56 AM
they are launching a Mexico City service

60 new weekly flights from YVR added to WestJet schedule

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/westjet-yvr-added-service-january-2018

With the increased number of flights in this announcement, the company will now fly out of YVR over 80 times a day.

WestJet’s increased service from Vancouver includes:

Vancouver-Edmonton from 50 to 59 times weekly (nine times each business day).
Vancouver-Calgary from 88 to 112 times weekly (16 times daily).
Vancouver-Kelowna from 40 to 49 times weekly (seven times daily).
Vancouver-Ottawa from seven to 14 times weekly (twice daily).
Vancouver-Regina from six to seven times weekly (daily).
Vancouver-Fort St. John from six to 12 times weekly.
Vancouver-Victoria from 33 to 35 times weekly (five times daily).
Vancouver-Cancun, from two to three times weekly.
Vancouver-Cabo San Lucas from one to two times weekly.
In addition to the increase in service – as announced last year – the company will also be launching three-times weekly service between Vancouver and Mexico City on March 15, with the route moving to daily service on April 29.

SpongeG
Jan 31, 2018, 4:57 AM
I guess that makes sense for why they have to bounce around. I hate travelling that way.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 31, 2018, 5:00 AM
they are launching a Mexico City service

60 new weekly flights from YVR added to WestJet schedule

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/westjet-yvr-added-service-january-2018

That was reported ages ago :haha:

The press release also didn't account for the new flights to YCD or YQQ either... added in December but compared to last summer those are new routes.

mezzanine
Jan 31, 2018, 5:48 AM
It was actually mentioned late August last year, I think this is just AC confirming with a press release. Good to see it will be 4 weekly

https://twitter.com/Airlineroute/status/903303425164795904

I remember that - the tweet left no time frame though and seemed more 'aspirational'. I'm surprised about the timing of this too.

and one thing i've learned following this thread is that it's not how full the plane is (https://biv.com/article/2018/01/air-canada-fly-non-stop-vancouver-delhi-flights-year-round), but how much revenue it generates...

Smith told BIV at the time that the success of the route would largely depend on whether the 30 business-class pods were filled. The planes also have 21 premium economy seats and 247 economy-class seats.


big win for YVR, first MEL to year round, now DEL..