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mezzanine
Jan 31, 2018, 6:04 AM
Anyway it seems so many people could choose direct to Vancouver or direct out of Vancouver options but they end up travelling via another Canadian city, usually with Air Canada. Is that pretty normal?

crankyflyer has a good explainer (http://crankyflier.com/2012/01/03/why-does-a-connecting-flight-cost-more-than-a-nonstop-ask-cranky/):

The first thing to keep in mind with something like this is that airlines don’t price based on costs. They price based on demand. When schedules are set at least a couple months in advance, predictions about revenues have been made and the hope is that the flight will be profitable, but airlines never know for sure. Once the schedule is set in stone, costs aren’t going to change, so it’s up to the revenue management team to simply maximize the amount of revenue that gets onboard that airplane.

One thing that we know without question is that a lot of people will pay more to fly nonstop, so even if a connecting itinerary may cost an airline more to fly, the airline doesn’t care about that. It only cares about getting as much revenue as it can on each flight, and that might mean pricing connecting itineraries less than nonstop.

...

There is a segment of the population that will be willing to make a connection if it means cheaper flights. Those people might be considering flying a different airline like airline B or C or not traveling at all with the current nonstop fares being charged by airline A. So how can airline A find a way to keep those passengers without diluting the existing fares? It can route them over a connection. That means those who want to pay more for the nonstop will still pay more, but airline A can fill up empty seats with that connecting traffic from the truly price-sensitive traveler.

thenoflyzone
Jan 31, 2018, 2:20 PM
And you are basing your findings on.......

What basis do you have to say Boeing has no interest in the E-jet?


Your so called "blue chip" company is in desperate need of engineers. Pure and simple.

Without them, Boeing is simply a bean-counting and financial engineering company.

https://leehamnews.com/2018/01/08/boeings-special-needs-next-decade-may-solved-embraer/

CareerShow
Jan 31, 2018, 6:41 PM
Your so called "blue chip" company is in desperate need of engineers. Pure and simple.

Without them, Boeing is simply a bean-counting and financial engineering company.

https://leehamnews.com/2018/01/08/boeings-special-needs-next-decade-may-solved-embraer/

Don't know what the need for engineers has with Boeing not being a blue chip company. Any company expanding will require highly skilled labourers in order to continue growth.

Of course with purchasing an aerospace company like Embraer, the third largest in the world, you will receive engineers, which is an added benefit of purchasing the company.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 31, 2018, 9:44 PM
Let’s try and keep this page about YVR?

Another new fact of the day.

So how big is YVR-Europe becoming in relation to Western Canada? Not long ago YVR and YYC weren’t that far apart actually.
Summer 2018 market share to Europe - % and weekly seats:

YVR 67.2% 30,730
YYC 25.7% 11,749
YEG 6.1% 2,777
YWG 0.6% 262
YXY 0.5% 243

thenoflyzone
Jan 31, 2018, 10:06 PM
Let’s try and keep this page about YVR?



Technically, Seattle isn't that far from YVR. :cheers:

zahav
Feb 1, 2018, 7:51 AM
Speaking of close to YVR, honorable mention goes to BC's other regional airports. I'd say they are proportionally the biggest winners of Westjet and Air Canada's expansion. New flights to YYJ, YCD, YQQ, YKA, and YLW from across Canada (notably to YYZ and YUL this year, but also new pairings from YYC and YEG), and the articles are pretty glowing in their announcements, referring to what great destinations the Okanagan and Vancouver Island are, they emphasize that way more than any benefit from eastbound traffic. Translation, they know how massive tourism is to these places and that it far outweighs any connecting eastward benefit. Good for these cities in growing this way, we have a good group of smaller-mid size cities that are punching above their weight.

Ok now back to YVR lol

Johnny Aussie
Feb 1, 2018, 8:37 AM
Speaking of close to YVR, honorable mention goes to BC's other regional airports. I'd say they are proportionally the biggest winners of Westjet and Air Canada's expansion. New flights to YYJ, YCD, YQQ, YKA, and YLW from across Canada (notably to YYZ and YUL this year, but also new pairings from YYC and YEG), and the articles are pretty glowing in their announcements, referring to what great destinations the Okanagan and Vancouver Island are, they emphasize that way more than any benefit from eastbound traffic. Translation, they know how massive tourism is to these places and that it far outweighs any connecting eastward benefit. Good for these cities in growing this way, we have a good group of smaller-mid size cities that are punching above their weight.

Ok now back to YVR lol

AC is also increasing flights to YLW and YQQ next summer too. Plus the new YVR to YCD and YQQ routes on WS. All good for YVR and BC too.

LeftCoaster
Feb 2, 2018, 10:13 PM
Official December stats just came out this morning, growth is down a bit from Nov, and about bang on annual total for the year:

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2017/december/december-2/dec2017trafficupdate.pdf?la=en

Domestic up 5.0%
International up 11.9%

---------

Total pax count up 8.5% and over 156,455 compared to December 2016.

---------

Int'l breakdown by sector:

Transborder up 7.0%
Asia Pacific up 16.0%
Europe up 3.3% (scheduled up 6.2% but charter took a beating)
Misc Int'l up 31.0%

Closing out the year strong, but not quite as scorching as November's growth. Gotta be happy with breaking 2 million December PAX for the first time ever though.

Final year comes out at 8.5% growth, with 5.4% domestic growth domestic slowing down strong growth growth in international (13.2%) and transborder (9.7%).

Asia pacific continued to be the cornerstone of growth at a whopping 15.5% on the year. That's well over half a million more passengers than 2016 which shattered the record in 2015. Just amazing growth.

Total passengers for 2017: 24,166,122

:cheers:

LeftCoaster
Feb 2, 2018, 10:36 PM
Oh and in other good news cargo hit an all time high of 313,437 tonnes, smashing the previous record by 11.5%.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 2, 2018, 11:20 PM
Official December stats just came out this morning, growth is down a bit from Nov, and about bang on annual total for the year:

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2017/december/december-2/dec2017trafficupdate.pdf?la=en

Domestic up 5.0%
International up 11.9%

---------

Total pax count up 8.5% and over 156,455 compared to December 2016.

---------

Int'l breakdown by sector:

Transborder up 7.0%
Asia Pacific up 16.0%
Europe up 3.3% (scheduled up 6.2% but charter took a beating)
Misc Int'l up 31.0%

Closing out the year strong, but not quite as scorching as November's growth. Gotta be happy with breaking 2 million December PAX for the first time ever though.

Final year comes out at 8.5% growth, with 5.4% domestic growth domestic slowing down strong growth growth in international (13.2%) and transborder (9.7%).

Asia pacific continued to be the cornerstone of growth at a whopping 15.5% on the year. That's well over half a million more passengers than 2016 which shattered the record in 2015. Just amazing growth.

Total passengers for 2017: 24,166,122

:cheers:

Was wondering when they were going to finally release that.

Where to even start.... overall every stat is up. Europe charters were a blip in December because the once weekly LGW is being discontinued for the winter.

Looking at the annual figures just blows my mind.

Annual domestic exceeded YYC for the first time in.... no idea when but it’s been years. Over 300,000 more. Last year YYC squeaked ahead by about 18,000.

The gap in total international with YUL grew to over 1.18 million. Last year the gap was under 1,000,000. And the total pax gap with YUL has grown to over 6,000,000.

So YVR #2 for overall, domestic and international. Total growth in pax numbers will easily be #2 with an overall increase over 1.88M. YYZ will easily win the total pax increase.

For those interested, SEA has also released 2017 stats.... only up a surprisingly low 2.6% to just over 46.93 million.
YVR is now over 50% of SEA.
You can break down total international by looking at a few of their detailed stats reports.

Breakdown of total international 5,129,844 at SEA:
Canada 1,487,539
Mexico 345,464
Asia 1,979,733
Europe 1,317,108

Another fascinating observation is Delta was down to both Europe and Asia based on YOY comparatives. Not sure what that means but their hub doesn't seem to growing internationally.

SpongeG
Feb 3, 2018, 4:31 AM
thanks for the answers all.

My mom is going to perth in july via hong kong, i might tag along, fingers crossed.

thenoflyzone
Feb 4, 2018, 8:56 PM
CZ seems to be having trouble filling it's planes from MEX to CAN. They don't have local traffic rights from MEX to YVR, which doesn't help.

According to someone on a.net, they average 39 passengers on each flight.

Hardly surprising, as O&D from MEX to CAN is 3 PDEW.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1385509

Reply 19.

For example, China Southern's CAN-YVR-MEX is a disaster in terms of profitability! Since the route started in early 2017, CZ has only flown 8,877 passengers from Mexico City to Guangzhou on the 226 flights performed in 2017. That is a paltry 39 passengers that fly from MEX to YVR to continue on to CAN! Obviously, this is a poor performer, but China Southern doesn't seem worried just yet.

Haven't checked his math, but the 226 flights he speaks of is probably to/from MEX. So that's an average of 39 passengers to/from MEX, and not just from MEX to CAN.

Either way, yet another politically driven route, much like CA's YUL-HAV.

teriyaki
Feb 4, 2018, 9:20 PM
Wow, meaning some flights are going out more full and some even emptier than the average! Imagine having a 787 almost entirely to yourself. :D

trofirhen
Feb 5, 2018, 12:33 AM
SEA 5m and something foreign (incl transborder pax) : YVR 12m (+/-) foreign pax (incl transborder too of course) ......
Am I right? Somebody tell me please. Or have I got it all wrong?

Johnny Aussie
Feb 5, 2018, 1:17 AM
Total international for YVR and SEA for 2017 (rounded to nearest ‘000):

YVR 12,430,000
SEA 5,130,000

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2017/december/december-2/dec2017trafficupdate.pdf?la=en

https://www.portseattle.org/About/Publications/Statistics/Airport-Statistics/Pages/default.aspx

Hot Rod
Feb 5, 2018, 7:12 AM
almost 2.5 times SEA.

Hot Rod
Feb 5, 2018, 7:12 AM
not sure if this were posted, but:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/276822/canada-china-capacity-on-the-rise-as-hainan-adds-vancouver/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=the-hub&utm_campaign=the-hub-AME&utm_content=the-hub-20180126

Hot Rod
Feb 5, 2018, 8:02 AM
https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/274977/vancouver-international-airport-wins-world-routes-2017-marketing-awards/

... Vancouver is North America’s fastest-growing international airport :tup:

zahav
Feb 5, 2018, 8:08 AM
I always wondered how that CZ leg to MEX was doing, I assumed there wasn't a ton of demand between the two. I'm sure the YVR-CAN leg fills the plane up nicely though, so loads on the YVR-CAN route would still be good, just the MEX sector is junk.

AC looks like it's still tweaking some schedules. YVR-SFO has a weird Jazz flight added just 1/2 hour before the mainline one? I wonder if they are actually doing that, or if one is going to disappear?

Another change as part of the AC summer sched (that was a long time coming) is YQR is finally changing to CR-900, it was DH4. Thankfully, I head the DH4 wasn't great for that length of a trip. Seat-wise it's a wash (3 more pax a day lol), but just nice to see. Some of the Seattle flights are also changing to CR-900 from the DH4. As are some YYJ flights.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 5, 2018, 8:36 AM
https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/274977/vancouver-international-airport-wins-world-routes-2017-marketing-awards/

... Vancouver is North America’s fastest-growing international airport :tup:

With international growth of 11.5% in 2017 not surprised.

AC looks like it's still tweaking some schedules. YVR-SFO has a weird Jazz flight added just 1/2 hour before the mainline one? I wonder if they are actually doing that, or if one is going to disappear?

Another change as part of the AC summer sched (that was a long time coming) is YQR is finally changing to CR-900, it was DH4. Thankfully, I head the DH4 wasn't great for that length of a trip. Seat-wise it's a wash (3 more pax a day lol), but just nice to see. Some of the Seattle flights are also changing to CR-900 from the DH4. As are some YYJ flights.

Remember I mentioned AC was basing more CRAs and DH4s in YVR. This summer AC will fly 19 daily transborder CRAs as part of AC's extensive transborder network. YYJ and YLW become all DH4 operations as well.

And yes, one of the 4 daily SFO flights will be on a CRA. It will rotate through with the new daily YEG-SFO and the two daily YYC-SFO flights.

SpongeG
Feb 5, 2018, 11:27 AM
so I flew down from the north today, yxj. I get to the airport, the 6:10 flight was delayed until 6:40. Not the end of the world. We get to board the flight and than we were alittle slow as they were waiting on 3 people to show up. So we finally get to leave. A few minutes into the flight we hear a huge bang kind of noise coming from the back door, my ears popped really hard to the point they kinda hurt, people are turning around and some are looking really freaked out and people are saying is that the door whats going on? and nothing, a few minutes later the flight attendant comes running down the aisle from the front of the plane. And then walks back to the front, people are all confused AF about the noise and the flight attendant running. Anyway a few minutes later the pilot comes on and says there is a pressure problem and we need to turn back and land and he will fill us in. So we land and he had to get off the plane to try figure out what was going on with the plane via the phone to the crew in Vancouver. Long story short, he said it was some kind of snow or ice on the door that did the noise but it affected the pressure system and I assume they didn't want to risk it so we had to fly at 10,000 feet instead of the normal 25,000 feet and we had to sit on the plane for nearly an hour and they had to get a route that would get us to vancouver flying so low and still get us over the rockies etc. I have no idea where we flew but it was 2 hours instead of the normal 90 minutes and they had to fuel up the plane etc. And while on the ground after nearly an hour the flight attendant finally says oh if you want to get off the plane and fly tomorrow cause you missed your flight in Vancouver let me know otherwise they will give you a hotel room etc. when you get to YVR. Only one person left. Then she comes on again and says please stop going to the bathroom or we will never leave cause I guess we coud have departed earlier but people were going to the bathroom non stop. And she was like please stop using the bathroom I want to leave, she literally said that. Anyway 3 hours later then expected. But not nice hearing a loud bang when taking off.

thenoflyzone
Feb 5, 2018, 2:37 PM
not sure if this were posted, but:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/276822/canada-china-capacity-on-the-rise-as-hainan-adds-vancouver/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=the-hub&utm_campaign=the-hub-AME&utm_content=the-hub-20180126

Hainan is launching a whole lot of routes for an airline who's parent company has financial issues.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-07/warning-signs-keep-sprouting-up-over-hna-s-mounting-debt-costs

They are launching PEK-TIJ-MEX, SZX-TSN-YVR, SZX-MAD and SZX-BRU this year.

thenoflyzone
Feb 5, 2018, 7:33 PM
1) JFK
2) YYZ
3) LAX
4) MIA
5) SFO
6) EWR
7) YVR or ORD
8) ORD or YVR

I think ORD will be ahead of YVR, based on their tally til November.

Full year 2017 international figures for North American airports, except otherwise noted.

Standings extrapolated based on potential full year figures.

1. JFK 29.9 million (til Nov '17)
2. YYZ 25.04 million (til Oct '17)
3. LAX 24.8 million
4. MIA 21.5 million
5. CUN 15.79 million
6. MEX 15.75 million
7. PTY 15.6 million
8. SFO 13.4 million
9. EWR 11.8 million (til Nov '17)
10. ORD 11.5 million (til Nov '17)
11.YVR 12.4 million
12. ATL 12.03 million
13. YUL 11.2 million
14. IAH 10.3 million
15. DFW 8.5 million
16. FLL 7.18 million
17. BOS 7.16 million

Edit: Corrected IAH, Added MEX, CUN, PTY, as well as FLL.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 5, 2018, 7:54 PM
I think ORD will be ahead of YVR, based on their tally til November. And i think YUL made it in the top 10 as well.

Full year international figures, except otherwise noted.

That is just phenomenal seeing YVR even at #8 ahead of ATL. Especially considering all those metro areas are over 6 million (except YUL just over 4 million). Plus all of those US cities have fortress hubs for the US majors. Even if international growth slows at YVR there is a strong likelihood it will overtake ORD in 2018. Equally impressive though is YYZ's total just behind JFK and just that much larger than LAX!

nname
Feb 5, 2018, 8:06 PM
Hainan is launching a whole lot of routes for an airline who's parent company has financial issues.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-07/warning-signs-keep-sprouting-up-over-hna-s-mounting-debt-costs

They are launching PEK-TIJ-MEX, SZX-TSN-YVR, SZX-MAD and SZX-BRU this year.

Note that SZX subsidize heavily on new international route, and probably so does TSN. By starting these routes they can use the subsidy to pay off some of the short-term debt....

zahav
Feb 5, 2018, 8:50 PM
There is definitely a big increase of CRAs. How are they to fly on? Seems like the 2-2 configuration would be nice.

United has updated again their SFO aircraft. The last update had all 319s and now it's 738s ,739s, and 320s. So whatever small loss from AC switching to a CRA is more than made up by the larger capacity from United. I'm sure we'll see more tweaks, UA loves switching it's aircraft on routes frequently

nname
Feb 5, 2018, 9:17 PM
not sure if this were posted, but:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/276822/canada-china-capacity-on-the-rise-as-hainan-adds-vancouver/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=the-hub&utm_campaign=the-hub-AME&utm_content=the-hub-20180126

I was thinking... the summer schedule of MEL and DEL combined to have a daily flight leaving YVR just before or after midnight, and come back by 8am two days later. That's 2.5 additional planes this summer for the two routes compared to the last. Since the original winter-seasonal route was probably run with idle planes off summer routes... does that means we will get new winter routes or some seasonal routes get extended year-round later this year from these 2.5 additional planes (AC did mentioned routes to South East Asia are good candidates for winter routes), or they will just sit idle over the winter?

thenoflyzone
Feb 5, 2018, 10:43 PM
That is just phenomenal seeing YVR even at #8 ahead of ATL. Especially considering all those metro areas are over 6 million (except YUL just over 4 million). Plus all of those US cities have fortress hubs for the US majors. Even if international growth slows at YVR there is a strong likelihood it will overtake ORD in 2018. Equally impressive though is YYZ's total just behind JFK and just that much larger than LAX!

Technically, if we are talking "North america", we need to include MEX and CUN to the list, both of which had 15.7 million international passengers. (CUN edging out MEX by a few thousand.)

So technically, YVR is #10, YUL #12.

Will edit the list up top.

LeftCoaster
Feb 5, 2018, 10:46 PM
Technically, if we are talking "North america", we need to include MEX and CUN to the list, both of which had 15.7 million international passengers. (CUN edging out MEX by a few thousand.)

So technically, YVR is #10, YUL #12.

Don't forget about Panama.

PTY is entirely international and saw 14,741,937 PAX in 2016.

That would make YVR #11 and YUL #13.

thenoflyzone
Feb 5, 2018, 11:22 PM
Don't forget about Panama.

PTY is entirely international and saw 14,741,937 PAX in 2016.

That would make YVR #11 and YUL #13.

Updated, thanks. PTY handled 15.6 million pax in 2017. Not all of that is international, however, as Copa does have 1 domestic flight, PTY to David, in the west side of Panama. Wont affect the numbers much, but still worth mentioning I suppose.

http://logistics.gatech.pa/en/assets/airports/tocumen

thenoflyzone
Feb 5, 2018, 11:56 PM
Especially considering all those metro areas are over 6 million (except YUL just over 4 million).

Now that the true top North american airports are on that list, it just goes to show that local population has no bearing with regards to international passenger numbers, or any numbers for that matter.

MEX has a population of over 20 million, and yet lags in the standings. PTY has a population of 1.5 million, CUN is less than 1 million (the whole state of Quintana Roo is 1.5 million), and yet both are among the busiest in North America, each for obviously different reasons. One is a well placed north/south transfer hub across the Americas (30% O&D, 70% transfer traffic), and the other is a tourist resort (100% O&D).

What PTY and CUN do have in common though, is location. They are well placed to attract the kind of passenger numbers that they have.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 6, 2018, 12:22 AM
Now that the true top North american airports are on that list, it just goes to show that local population has no bearing with regards to international passenger numbers, or any numbers for that matter.

PTY has a population of 1.5 million, CUN is less than 1 million (the whole state of Quintana Roo is 1.5 million), and yet both are among the busiest in North America, each for obviously different reasons. One is a well placed north/south transfer hub across the Americas (30% O&D, 70% transfer traffic), and the other is a tourist resort (100% O&D).

Population does play a huge role but of course there are exceptions. To say population has no bearing is incorrect. LAX and the NYC region probably 2 of the largest O&D markets in the world. Right off the bat they would be leaps and bounds ahead of cities like ATL and IAH. Factor in those fortress hub connections and voila....

We can debate the list and the how’s and why’s but regardless... on that list of North American cities very impressive showing for YVR wedged in between ORD and ATL. Even at #11. Next year YVR will hit the top 10 most likely as it sneaks past ORD... See what happens in 12 months. 10 years ago I would never have imagined in a million years YVR’s international network or numbers would be this high.

YVR’s O&D will be growing with all those Chinese connections too!

Denscity
Feb 6, 2018, 1:10 AM
Panama is in Central America so I wouldn't count it. MEX and CUN yes.

trofirhen
Feb 6, 2018, 2:15 AM
.........../pls excuse edit/
We can debate the list and the how’s and why’s but regardless... on that list of North American cities very impressive showing for YVR .... Next year YVR will hit the top 10 most likely as it sneaks past ORD... See what happens in 12 months.
10 years ago I would never have imagined in a million years YVR’s international network or numbers would be this high.

YVR’s O&D will be growing with all those Chinese connections too!

For a relatively small city, YVR does indeed "punch well above its weight" as several people have posted. This will only get even moreso when South American flights begin.
Craig Richmond is intent on SA flights, and wants visa restrictions lifted, and nonstops allowed from YVR. Westjet may one day fill a role there.

That, plus BKK and SIN, and a Middle Eastern gateway, Teheran or Istanbul, and boy oh boy.... YVR... The Little Airport That Could !!

zahav
Feb 6, 2018, 7:40 AM
Just a question for anyone who might know? How does aircraft purchases/fleet planning work for Jazz? Technically it is an entirely independent company and only has a capacity purchase agreement with AC, right? So when AC keeps shuffling their schedule (ie. adding a ton of CR9 flying to YVR), is Jazz responsible for finding the aircraft and juggling it? You never hear about Jazz buying planes yet all of these new Jazz flights come up, do they just buy/sell without any news? Seems like there is a good gauge on AC's widebody utilization (ie. forumers on here know how flights rotate from different cities and how aircraft are accounted for). Seems like Jazz just adds all the time, and seems to have endless DH4s and CRAs at their disposal

casper
Feb 6, 2018, 5:31 PM
Just a question for anyone who might know? How does aircraft purchases/fleet planning work for Jazz? Technically it is an entirely independent company and only has a capacity purchase agreement with AC, right? So when AC keeps shuffling their schedule (ie. adding a ton of CR9 flying to YVR), is Jazz responsible for finding the aircraft and juggling it? You never hear about Jazz buying planes yet all of these new Jazz flights come up, do they just buy/sell without any news? Seems like there is a good gauge on AC's widebody utilization (ie. forumers on here know how flights rotate from different cities and how aircraft are accounted for). Seems like Jazz just adds all the time, and seems to have endless DH4s and CRAs at their disposal

Generally speaking with these regional airlines sometimes the mainline airline (e.g., AC) buys the aircraft and leases them to the operator (e.g., Jazz) other times it is the operator that owns them.

Jazz's parent company is Chorus Aviation, here is the last press release on their most recent purchase:
http://chorusaviation.ca/2017-12-08-Chorus-Aviation-completes-transaction-for-two-additional-Embraer-190-aircraft-on-lease-to-Aeromexico-Connect

LeftCoaster
Feb 6, 2018, 11:59 PM
Panama is in Central America so I wouldn't count it. MEX and CUN yes.

Central America isn't a continent, it's a region in the continent of North America, so unfortunately it most definitely counts.

Denscity
Feb 7, 2018, 12:30 AM
Central America isn't a continent, it's a region in the continent of North America, so unfortunately it most definitely counts.

Interesting. I was always taught NA was made up of three countries. Funny it took this long for a correction haha.

LeftCoaster
Feb 7, 2018, 12:50 AM
Common misconception.

At least you thought NA was three countries, most only think of two!

teriyaki
Feb 7, 2018, 1:26 AM
Then how come NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) only encompasses 3 countries :P. Food for thought

casper
Feb 7, 2018, 3:12 AM
Then how come NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) only encompasses 3 countries :P. Food for thought

The same reason Switzerland is not part of the European Union or the UK is leaving. One is a geographic use of the word and the other is a political use.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 7, 2018, 3:33 AM
Why is it “unfortunate” Central America geographically is included as part of North America. All because it added three cities to the list?

:haha::haha::haha: ;)

Whether YVR is 7th, 8th, 10th or 11th bloody impressive stats which are only going to grow.

Denscity
Feb 7, 2018, 5:20 AM
Why is it “unfortunate” Central America geographically is included as part of North America. All because it added three cities to the list?

:haha::haha::haha: ;)

Whether YVR is 7th, 8th, 10th or 11th bloody impressive stats which are only going to grow.

Totally

Johnny Aussie
Feb 7, 2018, 7:20 PM
Looks like KE is keeping its daily YVR-ICN flight a 789 year round.

Say good bye to YVR’s only 748i route.

Perhaps just a bit too big for the route. That’s 100 seats less per day but a big drop in premium seats. Again showing YVR’s premium market still likely struggles a bit.

Also with all the other increases to Asia lately that was a lot of capacity to be absorbing in quite a short period.

SYD and HNL also losing their 748s. SFO and ATL picking them up.

Gordon
Feb 7, 2018, 7:50 PM
Would the 747 800i be a good fit for YVR - HKG or YVR PEK?

Any construction updates on the new D pier gate?

trofirhen
Feb 7, 2018, 9:05 PM
There's a lot of publicity about the Pier D extension, and it will serve as a great introduction for pax flying to Vancouver for the first time, no dispute.
*
But what about Pier E? It's sort of the counterpart of Pier D, and is mostly for Transborder departures, unless I am wrong. However, I thought that transborder increases
were to go from an extension (Pier F ??) Will Pier E be extended as the main, and only USA departure pier? How does it fit into the scheme of things, please.
Thank you.

Chikinlittle
Feb 7, 2018, 10:25 PM
Interesting. I was always taught NA was made up of three countries. Funny it took this long for a correction haha.

There is no legal definition or entity of North America, so debate away.

What's important for this conversation is to understand that while PTY may exist on this list, almost entirely all traffic will be international since there is nearly no possible domestic traffic to speak of, contrary to that of Canada or USA specifically. So by the nature of that, is warrants at least an asterisk (*) to disclaim the difference in nature of those two geographical circumstances.

trofirhen
Feb 7, 2018, 10:49 PM
There is no legal definition or entity of North America, so debate away.

What's important for this conversation is to understand that while PTY may exist on this list, almost entirely all traffic will be international since there is nearly no possible domestic traffic to speak of, contrary to that of Canada or USA specifically. So by the nature of that, is warrants at least an asterisk (*) to disclaim the difference in nature of those two geographical circumstances.

I believe the official division between North and South America is the Darien Gap separating Colombia and Panama.
In any event, I think most geographers call Panama, Costa Rica, etc part of North America, even though that part of the continent seems rather an "appendage."
Anyway, this is off-thread .... unless flights to Panama City or Bogotà come up.

LeftCoaster
Feb 7, 2018, 11:32 PM
Why is it “unfortunate” Central America geographically is included as part of North America. All because it added three cities to the list?

:haha::haha::haha: ;)


Ya that's it. Not really a big deal as the importance of YVR has nothing to do with PTY.

LeftCoaster
Feb 7, 2018, 11:40 PM
Looks like KE is keeping its daily YVR-ICN flight a 789 year round.

Say good bye to YVR’s only 748i route.

Perhaps just a bit too big for the route. That’s 100 seats less per day but a big drop in premium seats. Again showing YVR’s premium market still likely struggles a bit.

Also with all the other increases to Asia lately that was a lot of capacity to be absorbing in quite a short period.

SYD and HNL also losing their 748s. SFO and ATL picking them up.

Total bummer.

Looks like SYD, YVR, and HNL lost their 748s and SFO, ATL, and FCO gained one. Makes me happier that SYD lost theirs too though, as that must be a high yielding market.



Only possible silver lining here is it may open the door for Asiana who just today announced a renewed focus on long haul operations:
In response to increasing demand for low-cost carriers, Asiana Airlines will pursue a new business strategy centered on long-range flights, the company said.
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20180206000634

Would gladly trade:

1xAC789 and 1x KE748i

for

1xAC789, 1xKE789 and 1xOZ772

:tup:

trofirhen
Feb 8, 2018, 2:14 AM
I wish ASIANA would fly to YVR, especially being *A

Johnny Aussie
Feb 8, 2018, 6:31 AM
Total bummer.

Looks like SYD, YVR, and HNL lost their 748s and SFO, ATL, and FCO gained one. Makes me happier that SYD lost theirs too though, as that must be a high yielding market.



Only possible silver lining here is it may open the door for Asiana who just today announced a renewed focus on long haul operations:

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20180206000634

Would gladly trade:

1xAC789 and 1x KE748i

for

1xAC789, 1xKE789 and 1xOZ772

:tup:

I was trying to find an old article where the CEO of Asiana had highlighted a very short list of most likely / potential new destinations and YVR was mentioned second. That was about 5 years ago before the SFO crash though. They were reportedly looking around for ground handlers, catering etc.

That new article, in the Korea Herald above, mentioned something about introducing A380s in April along with A350s. Pretty sure their A380s have been fully deployed and like most airlines aren't getting any more. Anyway, I'm sure they are still looking at YVR and YVR would be on their radar but who knows. Again, as mentioned in a recent post of mine, it's equipment like the 787s and 350s that have opened up many opportunities for more YVR routes and new airlines.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 8, 2018, 7:41 AM
Not a huge deal but... AC YVR-MEX is being moved back to mainline next summer. More comfy ride for the 5 1/2 hour flight.

teriyaki
Feb 8, 2018, 7:47 AM
Asiana has some antique cabins on some of their 777-200s. They have plenty of a350s on order though. Would love to see another new tail in YVR.

nname
Feb 8, 2018, 7:58 AM
YVR-CAN will be up-gauge to a 77W in the summer.

CareerShow
Feb 8, 2018, 5:41 PM
Not a huge deal but... AC YVR-MEX is being moved back to mainline next summer. More comfy ride for the 5 1/2 hour flight.

Thank goodness. I would speculate a lot of traffic on this Mexico route is actually premium........and the Rouge product just wasn't up to snuff.

jmt18325
Feb 8, 2018, 8:14 PM
Not a huge deal but... AC YVR-MEX is being moved back to mainline next summer. More comfy ride for the 5 1/2 hour flight.

Not thread relevant, but what about YYZ?

Johnny Aussie
Feb 8, 2018, 8:18 PM
Thank goodness. I would speculate a lot of traffic on this Mexico route is actually premium........and the Rouge product just wasn't up to snuff.

Plus with (soon to be) four carriers in the route AC needs to be more competitive. This is one of the YVR routes that has seen a huge increase in capacity in the last 12 months.

hollywoodcory
Feb 8, 2018, 11:36 PM
Not thread relevant, but what about YYZ?

YYZ-MEX is still being operated by Rouge this summer. On the 767 too from what I see.

twoNeurons
Feb 8, 2018, 11:47 PM
I'll be testing out ICN-YVR on AC this summer.

787 Inbound YVR-NRT (JL)
787 Outbound KIX-ICN-YVR (AC)

It'll be nice to compare the two... I don't have high expectations of service for the outbound trip... but it was a better option than KIX-YVR direct on rouge.

LeftCoaster
Feb 8, 2018, 11:48 PM
I was trying to find an old article where the CEO of Asiana had highlighted a very short list of most likely / potential new destinations and YVR was mentioned second. That was about 5 years ago before the SFO crash though. They were reportedly looking around for ground handlers, catering etc.

That new article, in the Korea Herald above, mentioned something about introducing A380s in April along with A350s. Pretty sure their A380s have been fully deployed and like most airlines aren't getting any more. Anyway, I'm sure they are still looking at YVR and YVR would be on their radar but who knows. Again, as mentioned in a recent post of mine, it's equipment like the 787s and 350s that have opened up many opportunities for more YVR routes and new airlines.

Haha ya the article had several errors, but it seems to be legit as there were several other articles all corroborating. No idea why I chose that one to link. :shrug:

Does seem like a great time for Asiana to launch though, maybe summer 19?

Not a huge deal but... AC YVR-MEX is being moved back to mainline next summer. More comfy ride for the 5 1/2 hour flight.

Right move to remain competitive, but it looks like its a straight 319 rouge to 319 mainline swap so a decrease in overall seats.

YVR-CAN will be up-gauge to a 77W in the summer.

That's huge! I assume this will be only for the daily terminator service and the 787 will continue to run the 3xPW CAN-YVR-MEX?

YYZ-MEX is still being operated by Rouge this summer. On the 767 too from what I see.

Using a 767 during the summer for Mexico City? That's a terrible utilization of a rouge 767 during the peak demand for that frame.

excel
Feb 9, 2018, 12:17 AM
The Government of Brazil’s recent decision to relax the visa application process for Canadian travellers is expected to lead to new direct flight routes between major Brazilian destinations and some of Canada’s largest cities.

A source in the aviation industry who wished to remain anonymous told Daily Hive at least one Canadian airline is expected to launch a new service between Vancouver International Airport (YVR) and Rio de Janeiro or possibly Sao Paulo. The individual described such a service as “imminent”.

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-to-brazil-flights-expected-future

thenoflyzone
Feb 9, 2018, 12:33 AM
Thank goodness. I would speculate a lot of traffic on this Mexico route is actually premium........and the Rouge product just wasn't up to snuff.

That's one possibility.

Several other possible reasons for the change:

1. AC might need that Rouge A319 frame elsewhere. (remember, they are maxed out at Rouge with 50 aircraft, and they are launching routes like YUL-YYJ, YYZ-YKA and YYZ-YCD this summer). However, YVR-MEX goes mainline on May 1, and those routes will begin around June 21/22.

2. The AC A319 has 16 less seats than the Rouge A319, so could be a sign the competition is affecting loads.




Using a 767 during the summer for Mexico City? That's a terrible utilization of a rouge 767 during the peak demand for that frame.

AC1980/1981

YYZ0840-1220MEX1345-1915YYZ

They can still operate a run to Europe leaving YYZ late evening with that frame (ex. to BUD or BCN). It's far from terrible. Quite the contrary, actually.

They do something similar with YYZ-LAS-YYZ.

CareerShow
Feb 9, 2018, 1:00 AM
I'll be testing out ICN-YVR on AC this summer.

787 Inbound YVR-NRT (JL)
787 Outbound KIX-ICN-YVR (AC)

It'll be nice to compare the two... I don't have high expectations of service for the outbound trip... but it was a better option than KIX-YVR direct on rouge.

JAL should be great. Best economy class product long haul along with ANA, Cathay, Singapore, and EVA in my opinion. 2-4-2 seating and 70 less seats than AC on the 788.

LeftCoaster
Feb 9, 2018, 1:48 AM
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-to-brazil-flights-expected-future

Hmm it's Dailyhive so i'll take it with a grain of salt, but they certainly have piqued my interest!

Fingers crossed.



They can still operate a run to Europe leaving YYZ late evening with that frame (ex. to BUD or BCN). It's far from terrible. Quite the contrary, actually.

They do something similar with YYZ-LAS-YYZ.

If they can't double turn a 767 to Europe then ya that makes a lot of sense, good point.

trofirhen
Feb 9, 2018, 2:00 AM
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-to-brazil-flights-expected-future

Brazil. (and elsewhere in South America). Oh how I wish ..... if YVR gets that, I'll feel like a kid on Christmas morning.
It would be great for YVR itself, ... and what a connecting hub YVR would be!!

Johnny Aussie
Feb 9, 2018, 5:47 AM
Imminent huh?

Will wait and see!

But look what happened with MEX as soon as the Mexican visa was relaxed.

LIM, GRU and PTY may all be on the horizon.

5 years ago the Vancouver based consulting firm, InterVistas (a former client of mine!), published a report commissioned by the Alberta government. It turns out the YVR-Brazil market is surprisingly large... that was five years ago.

I’m sure it’s just a matter of time before YVR is directly linked again to South America.

Excellent to see this thread is garnering a lot of attention again.

I still believe the AC move to change MEX to mainline is a factor of requiring more premium seats. Lower overall capacity but more premium seating.

With all the buzz about... YVR may attract even more new services in 2018 above and beyond already announced.

Klazu
Feb 9, 2018, 3:10 PM
Does YVR have any lounge that people flying First on Delta can use? It was unclear based on their website. :???:

casper
Feb 9, 2018, 3:31 PM
Does YVR have any lounge that people flying First on Delta can use? It was unclear based on their website. :???:

I think the only lounges in the trans boarder area is the Air Canada maple leaf lounge and the Plaza Premium lounge. Maple leaf is out and Plaza Premium is a pay lounge. I get in through an Amex Platinum card, not certain how much it costs otherwise.

The International gate area has a Skyteam lounge, but not accessible from the transboarder area.

Klazu
Feb 9, 2018, 5:46 PM
That's what I figured. Oh well, perhaps in Seattle then.

trofirhen
Feb 10, 2018, 2:31 AM
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-to-brazil-flights-expected-future

No, I'm not talking among airlines, for example Westjet vs Avianca Brazil. ...
I'm talking about SEA. Would they try the same thing, and have as much success with it as vancouver would / could? IMO it's important that YVR
remain international top dog in this city pair. Any ideas or replies welcome.:)

Johnny Aussie
Feb 11, 2018, 4:58 AM
This has never happened before but I was checking to see if UA was adding its third daily flight to DEN this summer... it was literally being loaded as I was checking... I had checked second weekend of July, the third flight was there. Then I checked the first week of July and it wasn't there. Checked the second and third week's again.. third flight was there. Checked the first week again and *POOF* Like magic it was there.

So UA will now be at 17 daily this summer - 14 mainline. Up 1 daily from last summer with the second daily LAX being added. 18 flights on Saturdays (15 mainline). That would have to be the largest mainline operation of an US carrier at any Canadian airport.

SpongeG
Feb 11, 2018, 7:54 PM
I saw a Flair air plane at YVR yesterday, How long ago did they start flying into YVR instead of Abbotsford? or in addition to.

excel
Feb 11, 2018, 8:24 PM
I saw a Flair air plane at YVR yesterday, How long ago did they start flying into YVR instead of Abbotsford? or in addition to.

They have been flying into YVR since December 15 with flights to YLW, YEG and YYZ (1 stop).

thenoflyzone
Feb 12, 2018, 11:11 PM
Interesting discusssions about a potential YVR-GRU over on airliners. Dont know if it's one of you guys that started it.....

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1386117&p=20168443#p20168443

SpongeG
Feb 12, 2018, 11:14 PM
They have been flying into YVR since December 15 with flights to YLW, YEG and YYZ (1 stop).

oh ok, I hadn't seen one before but i guess I've only used the airport twice since mid december.

mezzanine
Feb 13, 2018, 12:06 AM
WRT YVR-GRU/south america, if it does come to pass and AC really can't make the numbers work, it would be interesting to see what plans CA has, especially if a new JV (https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/air-china-and-air-canada-expand-strategic-cooperation-strengthening-canada-china-network-in-advance-of-full-joint-venture-663727253.html) is coming soon between AC and CA.

Regardless of GRU, any new JV between air canada and air china i suspect will bring a lot of change for YVR.

libtard
Feb 13, 2018, 12:51 AM
What is the plan for Templeton road and the large fields on it?

Johnny Aussie
Feb 13, 2018, 5:49 AM
WRT YVR-GRU/south america, if it does come to pass and AC really can't make the numbers work, it would be interesting to see what plans CA has, especially if a new JV (https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/air-china-and-air-canada-expand-strategic-cooperation-strengthening-canada-china-network-in-advance-of-full-joint-venture-663727253.html) is coming soon between AC and CA.

Regardless of GRU, any new JV between air canada and air china i suspect will bring a lot of change for YVR.

YVR-PEK on CA is increasing to 11 weekly for the entire summer schedule this year.
EDIT: Actually YVR-PEK is going 11 weekly from beginning of April right through mid October.
I think with the YEG CA cargo route postponed/cancelled there may be a couple more weekly frequencies come available. However, they may be holding those in case they wish to restart the cargo route. Or maybe start a YVR one :haha:

trofirhen
Feb 13, 2018, 8:57 AM
WRT YVR-GRU/south america, if it does come to pass and AC really can't make the numbers work, it would be interesting to see what plans CA has, especially if a new JV (https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/air-china-and-air-canada-expand-strategic-cooperation-strengthening-canada-china-network-in-advance-of-full-joint-venture-663727253.html) is coming soon between AC and CA.

Regardless of GRU, any new JV between air canada and air china i suspect will bring a lot of change for YVR.

What kind of changes do you have in mind, please? Could you give one or two hypothetical examples?:)

thenoflyzone
Feb 13, 2018, 2:55 PM
YVR-PEK on CA is increasing to 11 weekly for the entire summer schedule this year.
EDIT: Actually YVR-PEK is going 11 weekly from beginning of April right through mid October.


It's been interesting to see CA shuffle it's schedule on YVR-PEK in the last few years.

In S16, it was 11x weekly B77W, double daily A332 from July to September.

In S17, it was down to 9-10x weekly all summer (april to October), albeit all on B77W (mix of 2 class and 3 class).

This year, S18, they are resuming 11x weekly, all on 2 class high density B77W.

I think with the YEG CA cargo route postponed/cancelled there may be a couple more weekly frequencies come available. However, they may be holding those in case they wish to restart the cargo route. Or maybe start a YVR one :haha:

YUL has gained a frequency every summer since the start of CA's operations.

S15 3x weekly
S16 4x weekly
S17 5x weekly
S18 6x weekly

Part of those frequency increases are either from YVR or YEG, as both have lost CA frequencies in the last 2 years. Don't think there are any more left. But then again, don't have access to capacity numbers on the Canada-China bilateral, so can't know for sure.

http://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text-texte.aspx?id=105042

WRT YVR-GRU/south america, if it does come to pass and AC really can't make the numbers work, it would be interesting to see what plans CA has, especially if a new JV (https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/air-china-and-air-canada-expand-strategic-cooperation-strengthening-canada-china-network-in-advance-of-full-joint-venture-663727253.html) is coming soon between AC and CA.

Regardless of GRU, any new JV between air canada and air china i suspect will bring a lot of change for YVR.

CA already operates PEK-MAD-GRU. Dont think a JV with AC will persuade them all of a sudden to drop MAD-GRU and start YVR-GRU. A joint venture means sharing profits/costs on flights between the two countries who's airlines are forming the JV. It doesn't usually include 5th freedom flights. Besides, China doesn't have any more fifth freedom rights left out of Canada. In the current agreement, they can only name 2 beyond points (check link above), and HAV and MEX are it. One of the two will need to get dropped, or the agreement amended for CA to start PEK-YVR-GRU.

mezzanine
Feb 13, 2018, 5:16 PM
CA already operates PEK-MAD-GRU. Dont think a JV with AC will persuade them all of a sudden to drop MAD-GRU and start YVR-GRU. A joint venture means sharing profits/costs on flights between the two countries who's airlines are forming the JV. It does't usually include 5th freedom flights. Besides, China doesn't have any more fifth freedom rights left out of Canada. In the current agreement, they can only name 2 beyond points (check link above), and HAV and MEX are it. One of the two will need to get dropped, or the agreement amended for CA to start PEK-YVR-GRU.

i dunno, a new JV makes a whole lot of reshuffling between CA and AC possible.

MAD-GRU on CA has been operating since ~ 2006, but more for political reasons on CA's part. it's a route with ~ 4 other airlines (https://www.google.ca/search?q=mad+gru&oq=mad+gru&aqs=chrome..69i57j0j69i60l2j0l2.1846j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) flying it and i suspect yields have been consistently poor (https://loyaltylobby.com/2017/12/15/airfare-of-the-day-air-china-business-class-sao-paulo-brazil-gru-to-madrid-spain-mad-from-2166-round-trip/). I would wonder if CA would consider moving GRU to YVR to serve a nascent market if agreements allow and there is cooperation from AC on feed, revenue sharing etc.

nname
Feb 13, 2018, 7:47 PM
i dunno, a new JV makes a whole lot of reshuffling between CA and AC possible.

MAD-GRU on CA has been operating since ~ 2006, but more for political reasons on CA's part. it's a route with ~ 4 other airlines (https://www.google.ca/search?q=mad+gru&oq=mad+gru&aqs=chrome..69i57j0j69i60l2j0l2.1846j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) flying it and i suspect yields have been consistently poor (https://loyaltylobby.com/2017/12/15/airfare-of-the-day-air-china-business-class-sao-paulo-brazil-gru-to-madrid-spain-mad-from-2166-round-trip/). I would wonder if CA would consider moving GRU to YVR to serve a nascent market if agreements allow and there is cooperation from AC on feed, revenue sharing etc.

The funny thing is, CZ had public state that they also intend to start CAN-MAD/BCN-GRU/GIG. They don't care with poor yield, they just want a SA route so they fly to all continents!


In the current agreement, they can only name 2 beyond points (check link above), and HAV and MEX are it. One of the two will need to get dropped, or the agreement amended for CA to start PEK-YVR-GRU.

I wonder if CAN-YVR-MEX on CZ is even counted as fifth freedom since they cannot sell ticket for YVR-MEX sector....

mezzanine
Feb 13, 2018, 10:08 PM
I wonder if CAN-YVR-MEX on CZ is even counted as fifth freedom since they cannot sell ticket for YVR-MEX sector....

Yeah, I saw that on thenoflyzone's link. nothing in the agreement that would prevent a fifth freedom, other than reservations on transport Canada's side and their refusal.

Passenger-combination and/or all-cargo services may be operated in either or both directions by an airline(s) designated by the Government of Canada on the following route:

Points in
Canada = Any point or points
Intermediate Points = Two (2) points to be named by Canada
Points in China = Ten (10) points to be named by Canada
Points Beyond = Two (2) points to be named by Canada


I suspect the work is cut out for the negotiators on both CA and AC's sides even with the existing agreement, but with a lot of new things possible if they are working for a JV.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 13, 2018, 10:28 PM
Not a big change but YVR-MEL being bumped up to 4 weekly again over the winter. The press release re the year round service did mention three weekly year round and it was showing only three weekly in December last week.

Woo hooo

As for CZ YVR-MEX unless they are carrying cargo (?) this would not be a fifth freedom route. Just a tech stop.

thenoflyzone
Feb 14, 2018, 3:34 AM
Dont know if this was mentioned, but YVR-BOS will operate for 8 more weeks this coming summer.

On the schedules from 18 May til 23 September. Last year was from 23 June til 4 September.

Still a daily A319.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 14, 2018, 5:10 AM
Dont know if this was mentioned, but YVR-BOS will operate for 8 more weeks this coming summer.

On the schedules from 18 May til 23 September. Last year was from 23 June til 4 September.

Still a daily A319.

Yes that was mentioned a few weeks ago... along with YZF starting earlier too (mid Sept) - that may go year round.

IAD, IAH and MIA also on the short term cards.

Lancaster
Feb 14, 2018, 5:12 AM
Dont know if this was mentioned, but YVR-BOS will operate for 8 more weeks this coming summer.

On the schedules from 18 May til 23 September. Last year was from 23 June til 4 September.

Still a daily A319.

Have to think that this will be one of the first US routes from YVR that will get a CS300 once they start rolling in. Seems like there's a good opportunity to get onward connections to SYD/BNE/MEL in the winter months.

trofirhen
Feb 14, 2018, 10:27 PM
Yes that was mentioned a few weeks ago... along with YZF starting earlier too (mid Sept) - that may go year round.

IAD, IAH and MIA also on the short term cards.

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but I though IAH was already year-round. I know IAD is seaasonal, and MIA is yet to come, but looking at the route map on yvr.ca, Houston appears year-round:???:

zahav
Feb 15, 2018, 8:29 AM
Also, the Air Canada flight will now be departing at 845 instead of 1430. So doesn't seem like they are targetting international connections anymore?

The AC flight returning to mainline is good I think, yes a better product but also if competition is intense, streamling to mainline and slightly fewer seats is a great compromise. Calgary is losing Aeromexico altogether, less than a year after they started I believe? And yes Westjet is adding daily service there (same as YVR) but to lose Aeromexico altogether is not good for that airport. They are already really struggling at growing international. So if our situation is same aircraft with slightly fewer seats to compensate for all the extra capacity other airlines are adding, it's not a bad thing ;)

I'm curious to hear what comes of that Turkish Airlines negotiation in May. All the buzz is they will be adding 3 weekly IST flights

twoNeurons
Feb 15, 2018, 7:52 PM
Also, the Air Canada flight will now be departing at 845 instead of 1430. So doesn't seem like they are targetting international connections anymore?

The AC flight returning to mainline is good I think, yes a better product but also if competition is intense, streamling to mainline and slightly fewer seats is a great compromise. Calgary is losing Aeromexico altogether, less than a year after they started I believe? And yes Westjet is adding daily service there (same as YVR) but to lose Aeromexico altogether is not good for that airport. They are already really struggling at growing international. So if our situation is same aircraft with slightly fewer seats to compensate for all the extra capacity other airlines are adding, it's not a bad thing ;)

I'm curious to hear what comes of that Turkish Airlines negotiation in May. All the buzz is they will be adding 3 weekly IST flights

Morning flights to Mexico are definitely better for connecting to other destinations like Cancun or Puerto Vallarta and more popular with vacationers, I would think. I'm guess that makes the RT flight around 6PM... instead of 7am. That will be popular with most people who go to Mexico city.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 15, 2018, 9:24 PM
Also, the Air Canada flight will now be departing at 845 instead of 1430. So doesn't seem like they are targetting international connections anymore?

The AC flight returning to mainline is good I think, yes a better product but also if competition is intense, streamling to mainline and slightly fewer seats is a great compromise. Calgary is losing Aeromexico altogether, less than a year after they started I believe? And yes Westjet is adding daily service there (same as YVR) but to lose Aeromexico altogether is not good for that airport. They are already really struggling at growing international. So if our situation is same aircraft with slightly fewer seats to compensate for all the extra capacity other airlines are adding, it's not a bad thing ;)

I'm curious to hear what comes of that Turkish Airlines negotiation in May. All the buzz is they will be adding 3 weekly IST flights

YVR-MEX is a growing O&D market so relying less on the Canadian end. Definitely easy connections from BC and AB on the AC flight though. The WS flight departs at 0700 so no feed on the Canadian end. AM departs at 0640 and 2320 daily while 4O departs at 2130 the days it operates. That's still a lot of seats added in a very short period of time... will have to see how this all gets absorbed with decent yields.

Yes YYC has struggled with non-sun-destination international flights. Recently their international growth has been entirely to sun destinations with support from other Western Canadian cities for feed. And this has been almost entirely due to Westjet growth and the test of rouge 763s on some routes. MAN, CDG, GLA are routes lost recently and downgauges on 2 of the 3 AC long-haul routes coming this summer. Very stagnant on remaining existing long-haul routes in terms of frequencies and capacity as well. The one really telling event (non event in YYC's case) is the recent announcement of Hainan adding two weekly flights to TSN and SZX from YVR. They could have added 2 weekly flights on YYC-PEK but obviously they feel YVR-TSN-SZX is better. YYC-Asia very stagnant as Hainan is just sticking with the three weekly 332... no upguages.... and AC rolling back NRT to a 763 and originating in YYZ.

Oh yeah... and the Turkish thing... well apparently they have the rights now... whether they act on it or not is another thing.

thenoflyzone
Feb 16, 2018, 10:56 PM
Oh yeah... and the Turkish thing... well apparently they have the rights now... whether they act on it or not is another thing.

No official source yet that they have additional rights.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/policy/air-bluesky-menu-2989.htm

Page updated late January.

hollywoodcory
Feb 16, 2018, 11:34 PM
YVR-MEX is a growing O&D market so relying less on the Canadian end. Definitely easy connections from BC and AB on the AC flight though. The WS flight departs at 0700 so no feed on the Canadian end. AM departs at 0640 and 2320 daily while 4O departs at 2130 the days it operates. That's still a lot of seats added in a very short period of time... will have to see how this all gets absorbed with decent yields.

Yes YYC has struggled with non-sun-destination international flights. Recently their international growth has been entirely to sun destinations with support from other Western Canadian cities for feed. And this has been almost entirely due to Westjet growth and the test of rouge 763s on some routes. MAN, CDG, GLA are routes lost recently and downgauges on 2 of the 3 AC long-haul routes coming this summer. Very stagnant on remaining existing long-haul routes in terms of frequencies and capacity as well. The one really telling event (non event in YYC's case) is the recent announcement of Hainan adding two weekly flights to TSN and SZX from YVR. They could have added 2 weekly flights on YYC-PEK but obviously they feel YVR-TSN-SZX is better. YYC-Asia very stagnant as Hainan is just sticking with the three weekly 332... no upguages.... and AC rolling back NRT to a 763 and originating in YYZ.

Oh yeah... and the Turkish thing... well apparently they have the rights now... whether they act on it or not is another thing.

Technically speaking, HU is adding seats to YYC. There's 9 more Y class seats on the 332 then the 788. :haha:

Johnny Aussie
Feb 17, 2018, 12:05 AM
Technically speaking, HU is adding seats to YYC. There's 9 more Y class seats on the 332 then the 788. :haha:

My point is since the commencement of that route, it has been stagnant at 3 weekly on 332s. The Dreamliner was rumoured to be going on that route. Slightly smaller but better equipment.

nname
Feb 17, 2018, 8:07 AM
Singapore Airlines had been granted license to operate charter service between Canada and Singapore...

https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2018-22

hmm.. wonder where would they run the charter to...

thenoflyzone
Feb 17, 2018, 3:10 PM
Technically speaking, HU is adding seats to YYC. There's 9 more Y class seats on the 332 then the 788. :haha:

HU needs their B788s to launch SZX-MAD and PEK-TIJ-MEX.

PEK-YYC is far shorter than both those routes, which is the main reason why it is reverting back to the A332.

Same reason why SZX-TSN-YVR is launched with the A332. The route doesn't need the economics of the dreamliner.

osirisboy
Feb 17, 2018, 4:46 PM
Singapore Airlines had been granted license to operate charter service between Canada and Singapore...

https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2018-22

hmm.. wonder where would they run the charter to...

So I'm not familiar with what charter means. Is that a one time thing or what's the frequency in this?

teriyaki
Feb 17, 2018, 5:47 PM
Found this gem, maybe someone more well versed in legal can make more sense of what charter means.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-88-58/index.html

trofirhen
Feb 17, 2018, 11:59 PM
Found this gem, maybe someone more well versed in legal can make more sense of what charter means.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-88-58/index.html

Sheesh, a charter service. I wish we could get it back as a scheduled destination. They have planes that'll do it nonstop now.;)