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Hot Rod
Mar 18, 2018, 8:34 PM
^ I think DEL is the main hub airport for India (like PEK for China), so it's far easier to fly into there and connect to the whole country opposed to BOM.

Hopefully Vancouver will legitimately get BOM someday (wouldn't Air India YVR-BOM be nice) if they meant Toronto. Interesting that Vancouver is more worldwide known as "Canada" than Toronto. hehe!

trofirhen
Mar 18, 2018, 9:16 PM
^ I think DEL is the main hub airport for India (like PEK for China), so it's far easier to fly into there and connect to the whole country opposed to BOM.

Hopefully Vancouver will legitimately get BOM someday (wouldn't Air India YVR-BOM be nice) if they meant Toronto. Interesting that Vancouver is more worldwide known as "Canada" than Toronto. hehe!

You are right, Hot Rod. I checked the numbers, and DEL pax (2016-2017) were 57,703,000 whith BOM at 45,145,000. BOM-YVR, if ever it existed, would probably have more business pax.
Also, I think that many Indo Canadians have roots in Central and Northern India, closer to Delhi than Bombay (Mumbai). So yes, YVR-DEL seems to make more sense for now.

Vagabond
Mar 19, 2018, 4:11 AM
You are right, Hot Rod. I checked the numbers, and DEL pax (2016-2017) were 57,703,000 whith BOM at 45,145,000. BOM-YVR, if ever it existed, would probably have more business pax.
Also, I think that many Indo Canadians have roots in Central and Northern India, closer to Delhi than Bombay (Mumbai). So yes, YVR-DEL seems to make more sense for now.

It's not a huge shock that India's aviation authorities get Canadian cities confused, as our own media reciprocates. As part of the Globe and Mail's coverage of Trudeau's recent trip, their editorial board published a piece which listed India's capital as Mumbai (and not New Delhi)! Needless to say, the connections between Canada and India are not nearly as well-established as our political elites like to pretend.

Johnny Aussie
Mar 19, 2018, 10:03 PM
YVR flew out of the starting gates...

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2018/01-january/january-2018-traffic-update.pdf?la=en

Overall up 8.2%
Domestic up 7.0%
International up 9.3%

Intl breakdown
Transborder up 11.0%
Asia Pacific up 6.0% (impressive with Chinese New Year in Feb this year)
Europe up 4.0%
Latin America up 17.6%

Cargo up 6.9%

Total International just 4,000 shy of 1,000,000 in the month!

zahav
Mar 19, 2018, 10:16 PM
YVR flew out of the starting gates...

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2018/01-january/january-2018-traffic-update.pdf?la=en

Overall up 8.2%
Domestic up 7.0%
International up 9.3%

Intl breakdown
Transborder up 11.0%
Asia Pacific up 6.0% (impressive with Chinese New Year in Feb this year)
Europe up 4.0%
Latin America up 17.6%

Cargo up 6.9%

Total International just 4,000 shy of 1,000,000 in the month!

I had actually Facebook messaged YVR this morning and asked about the stats not being posted yet, and this is what I got back:

1:26PM
The January traffic stats should be going up by the end of the day today!

I have a feeling someone forgot to post them haha!

Those are fantastic results. Maybe I misunderstood you, but I'm seeing total international at 1,036,626?

Post this over on the Canada thread too, since YUL and YYC were already up. We are ahead by a significant margin, they were 5.5% and 5.4% respectively.

osirisboy
Mar 19, 2018, 10:37 PM
The date printed on the January update was march 2nd! Nice to finally see it posted

Johnny meant scheduled international. So excluding charter. Which puts it just under a million

Johnny Aussie
Mar 20, 2018, 12:12 AM
The date printed on the January update was march 2nd! Nice to finally see it posted

Johnny meant scheduled international. So excluding charter. Which puts it just under a million

Yes, but I should have said scheduled... but yeah total international flew past 1,000,000.

Here's the numbers growth instead of % growth.

Overall up 146,743 to 1,937,800
Domestic up 58,592 to 901,200
International up 88,151 to 1,036,600

That's really quite impressive growth in % and total aggregate numbers.

osirisboy
Mar 20, 2018, 12:27 AM
Where does Australia fit in? Asia pacific or misc?

Johnny Aussie
Mar 20, 2018, 12:42 AM
Where does Australia fit in? Asia pacific or misc?

Good question and yes it's in the Asia Pacific numbers with NZ as well.

Misc intl is Mexico and the Caribbean.

nname
Mar 20, 2018, 9:17 PM
According to Airlineroute twitter, AC will convert 4 of the 5 daily YVR-SEA service from Dash-8 to CRJ-900.

casper
Mar 20, 2018, 11:00 PM
According to Airlineroute twitter, AC will convert 4 of the 5 daily YVR-SEA service from Dash-8 to CRJ-900.

I wonder if that is operational (aircraft availability) or if it is a more strategic decision to add a business class cabin or have a similar product to Delta on the route?

zahav
Mar 21, 2018, 3:01 AM
According to Airlineroute twitter, AC will convert 4 of the 5 daily YVR-SEA service from Dash-8 to CRJ-900.

This was already reflected in their schedule update last month. The first daily flight is DH4 and then all others CR-900. They are shifting more YVR flights to CR-900 in general, same happened for YQR and YXE which used to have some DH4, now all CR-900.

Johnny Aussie
Mar 21, 2018, 6:34 PM
ORD finally published its 2017 figures and their total international came in at 12,465,516. Just edged out YVR at 12,429,867. The gap in 2017 was almost 600,000 so that’s shrunk to under 36,000.

So YVR remains #8 for international traffic between the US and Canada airports and #11 for North America.

If YVR and ORD growth trends continue on similar paths YVR will easily overtake ORD in 2018. Already has in Jan 2018.

SFUVancouver
Mar 21, 2018, 6:53 PM
Oh wow, that's a nail-biter. Thanks for the info.

EastVanMark
Mar 21, 2018, 8:54 PM
ORD finally published its 2017 figures and their total international came in at 12,465,516. Just edged out YVR at 12,429,867. The gap in 2017 was almost 600,000 so that’s shrunk to under 36,000.

So YVR remains #8 for international traffic between the US and Canada airports and #11 for North America.

If YVR and ORD growth trends continue on similar paths YVR will easily overtake ORD in 2018. Already has in Jan 2018.

Very impressive numbers.:tup:

zahav
Mar 22, 2018, 7:44 AM
Skytrax Best Airports Awards were announced today, with YVR Best Airport in North America, I think this was 9 years in a row. Only North American airport in the top 20 on the worldwide list. And Fairmont Vancouver Airport named 4th best airport hotel in the world, again the only North American one on the top 10 list. I konw they were really gunning for this award again, apparently no other airport has won in any category that many years in a row.

http://www.worldairportawards.com

thenoflyzone
Mar 22, 2018, 5:45 PM
Updated my list.

Top North American airports in 2017 based on International passengers.

1. JFK 32.4 million
2. YYZ 29.6 million
3. LAX 24.8 million
4. MIA 21.5 million
5. CUN 15.79 million
6. MEX 15.75 million
7. PTY 15.6 million
8. SFO 13.4 million
9. EWR 12.9 million
10. ORD 12.46 million
11.YVR 12.43 million
12. ATL 12.03 million
13. YUL 11.2 million
14. IAH 10.3 million
15. DFW 8.5 million
16. FLL 7.18 million
17. BOS 7.16 million

trofirhen
Mar 22, 2018, 6:50 PM
Updated my list.

1. JFK 32.4 million
2. YYZ 25.04 million (til Oct '17)
3. LAX 24.8 million
4. MIA 21.5 million
5. CUN 15.79 million
6. MEX 15.75 million
7. PTY 15.6 million
8. SFO 13.4 million
9. EWR 12.9 million
10. ORD 12.46 million
11.YVR 12.43 million
12. ATL 12.03 million
13. YUL 11.2 million
14. IAH 10.3 million
15. DFW 8.5 million
16. FLL 7.18 million
17. BOS 7.16 million
deleted

trofirhen
Mar 22, 2018, 9:41 PM
deleted

nname
Mar 22, 2018, 10:03 PM
Skytrax Best Airports Awards were announced today, with YVR Best Airport in North America, I think this was 9 years in a row. Only North American airport in the top 20 on the worldwide list. And Fairmont Vancouver Airport named 4th best airport hotel in the world, again the only North American one on the top 10 list. I konw they were really gunning for this award again, apparently no other airport has won in any category that many years in a row.

http://www.worldairportawards.com

Just simply show how bad North American airports are in general. Unless something dramatic happens, I don't see YVR lose the top title next year or the year after that. After all, they are still 15 ranks higher than the next-highest North America airport...

=============

Other YVR News:
- CZ will swap the equipment for the YVR-CAN route from 77W to "78W" (their brand new 787-9) effective July 1.
- The temporary gate(?) D62 was opened since late last week. Although it haven't been used for the past couple of days.

connect2source
Mar 23, 2018, 7:45 PM
Just booking a Europe trip in May and noticed LH 477 YVR-MUC will be operated by an A350-900! Very excited to fly on this, guess Lufthansa is only the second carrier after CX to fly the A359 into YVR, should be a great ride, heard the A350 is far more comfy than most Dream)liners.

Johnny Aussie
Mar 23, 2018, 10:23 PM
Just booking a Europe trip in May and noticed LH 477 YVR-MUC will be operated by an A350-900! Very excited to fly on this, guess Lufthansa is only the second carrier after CX to fly the A359 into YVR, should be a great ride, heard the A350 is far more comfy than most Dream)liners.

Third! CI has been flying them to TPE for a few months now.

LeftCoaster
Mar 23, 2018, 11:37 PM
- CZ will swap the equipment for the YVR-CAN route from 77W to "78W" (their brand new 787-9) effective July 1.

Surprisingly the CZ 789 Vs their 77W is only a net difference of 9 seats so still a huge capacity upgrade over summer 17' despite the downguage.

A few other changes to YVR:

- Delta is sending a 737-900 from SEA this summer, kinda ridiculous to have such a large aircraft running such a short route. I'd prefer to see upped frequencies but oh well, I guess things are getting really jammed at SEA.

- AC is changing it YVR-MCO from 763 to a 319, so a big cut in capacity with no increase in frequencies. Either this route was getting killed or there are some frequency adds to come. The real news story here is yet another 767 Rouge lost to YVR. I really hope we can hold on to a few or DUB and NGO might be in trouble.

Johnny Aussie
Mar 23, 2018, 11:58 PM
Surprisingly the CZ 789 Vs their 77W is only a net difference of 9 seats so still a huge capacity upgrade over summer 17' despite the downguage.

A few other changes to YVR:

- Delta is sending a 737-900 from SEA this summer, kinda ridiculous to have such a large aircraft running such a short route. I'd prefer to see upped frequencies but oh well, I guess things are getting really jammed at SEA.

- AC is changing it YVR-MCO from 763 to a 319, so a big cut in capacity with no increase in frequencies. Either this route was getting killed or there are some frequency adds to come. The real news story here is yet another 767 Rouge lost to YVR. I really hope we can hold on to a few or DUB and NGO might be in trouble.

The CZ 789 config is way less premium heavy than their 77W. No F and a smaller J. Probably a better fit for the YVR market.

DL is maintaining 7 daily to SEA including the 739. When they first added the 739 they had dropped to 5 daily... subsequently back to 7 now. It will take longer to embark and disembark than the actual flight time!

I think the rouge 763 for winter flying was too big for Western Canada. Maybe other than Hawaii.
Don’t forget airlines shuffle aircraft based on seasons. Every year AC was flipping their E90s east and west. It was hard to keep up.
Definitely the rouge 763s are gone next winter. Tbh I’d choose mainline product over rouge anyday so good riddance! So far there hasn’t been any negative capacity except MCO. Overall there is a large increase in the number of seats this upcoming winter for leisure flights out of YVR.

It’s very possible AC may still base a rouge 763 or two at YVR in summer 2019. Otherwise DUB would most likely have to move to mainline. As for NGO? Perhaps that goes mainline as well... maybe one of the last remaining mainline 763 routes, maybe one of the new 330 routes or it gets cut altogether!?

casper
Mar 24, 2018, 12:42 AM
- Delta is sending a 737-900 from SEA this summer, kinda ridiculous to have such a large aircraft running such a short route. I'd prefer to see upped frequencies but oh well, I guess things are getting really jammed at SEA.


I was on the late night Alaska 737 into YVR from SEA about 6 weeks ago. Under 1/3 full. Not certain if that was a weird night with such a small load or if it is typical. They had to do the announcement that for weight and balance and due to the light loads you had to take your assigned seats. There were a few passengers connecting on to the midnight departures to Asia.

I think these 737 on this route are to position aircraft.

CareerShow
Mar 24, 2018, 2:50 AM
Surprisingly the CZ 789 Vs their 77W is only a net difference of 9 seats so still a huge capacity upgrade over summer 17' despite the downguage.

A few other changes to YVR:

- Delta is sending a 737-900 from SEA this summer, kinda ridiculous to have such a large aircraft running such a short route. I'd prefer to see upped frequencies but oh well, I guess things are getting really jammed at SEA.

- AC is changing it YVR-MCO from 763 to a 319, so a big cut in capacity with no increase in frequencies. Either this route was getting killed or there are some frequency adds to come. The real news story here is yet another 767 Rouge lost to YVR. I really hope we can hold on to a few or DUB and NGO might be in trouble.

The less Rouge the better for passengers. Its nice to see AC deemed mainline a better fit for YVR. Don't forget that just a few years back even SFO and LAX had been "rouged" until the backlash. This will make for a far better passenger experience on the mainline aircraft.

I could see NGO being dropped, as it seems the route hasn't been doing all that well. KIX is supposedly mainline for the S19 season, and I could see Dublin being mainlined in S19 as well, rotating thru YUL or YYZ with a a333, or a 788 perhaps. All in all, the loss of a route compared to the number of mainlined routes, both shorthaul and longhaul is worth it i believe.

nname
Mar 24, 2018, 4:37 AM
The less Rouge the better for passengers. Its nice to see AC deemed mainline a better fit for YVR. Don't forget that just a few years back even SFO and LAX had been "rouged" until the backlash. This will make for a far better passenger experience on the mainline aircraft.

Probably not the backlash, but they got what they wanted for the route with Rouge, which is taking the market leader away from AS. In fact, it did so well that it squeeze AS out of the market completely. Since the Rouge fleet is limited, there is no need to "waste" those frames on the market that's already firmly theirs.

With or without Rouge base, I can see KIX and DUB become mainline eventually. AC now seems to mostly deploy Rouge to seasonal routes with 3 or 4 weekly flights or less. KIX and DUB should be mature enough to warrant mainline service. Again, with limited frames of 25, there's no point of wasting those on established routes when they can send them out to explore new destinations.

With Rouge out of the market completely, I don't see AC will open any South American route out of YVR anytime soon... The best bet for YVR-South America is with Rouge IMO...

trofirhen
Mar 24, 2018, 2:39 PM
With Rouge out of the market completely, I don't see AC will open any South American route out of YVR anytime soon... The best bet for YVR-South America is with Rouge IMO...
If Air Canada won't, are there any South American Airlines that would? Avianca ... etc ... ?

thenoflyzone
Mar 24, 2018, 3:54 PM
If Air Canada won't, are there any South American Airlines that would? Avianca ... etc ... ?

Highly unlikely. BOG-YVR is out of reach for AV's narrowbodies, meaning they would need to send a widebody to make the route work. I don't see that happening. (remember, BOG airport is at 8,300ft, which severely restricts aircraft performance/range on departure)

Dont see Avianca Brazil on GRU-YVR either. Although it's the route that would make the most sense to South America, there are plenty of other North american cities they would launch ahead of YVR, as they only operate to MIA and JFK in North America.

Most likely the next AV destination in Canada will be BOG-YUL with an A319neo/A320neo. (Avianca Costa Rica -formerly LACSA- already operates SAL-YYZ)

trofirhen
Mar 24, 2018, 4:24 PM
Highly unlikely. BOG-YVR is out of reach for AV's narrowbodies, meaning they would need to send a widebody to make the route work. I don't see that happening. (remember, BOG airport is at 8,300ft, which severely restricts aircraft performance/range on departure)

Dont see Avianca Brazil on GRU-YVR either. Although it's the route that would make the most sense to South America, there are plenty of other North american cities they would launch ahead of YVR, as they only operate to MIA and JFK in North America.

Most likely the next AV destination in Canada will be BOG-YUL with an A319neo/A320neo. (Avianca Costa Rica -formerly LACSA- already operates SAL-YYZ)
A shame, esp given how much Craig Richmond wants YVR as a transfer hub between Asia and the Americas; both North and South

thenoflyzone
Mar 25, 2018, 3:00 AM
A shame, esp given how much Craig Richmond wants YVR as a transfer hub between Asia and the Americas; both North and South

Just because Craig wants something doesn't mean it will happen. It has to make financial sense, even after the incentives have come and gone. Right now, YVR-South America doesn't make financial sense. That might change one day......

Anyways, excluding to Japan, South America-Asia is faster via Europe and the middle east than YVR. So Craig is not only late to the ball game, but he's also cheering for the wrong team, so to speak....

"focus on your strengths, not your weaknesses"

libtard
Mar 25, 2018, 3:23 AM
Just because Craig wants something doesn't mean it will happen. It has to make financial sense, even after the incentives have come and gone. Right now, YVR-South America doesn't make financial sense. That might change one day......

Anyways, excluding to Japan, South America-Asia is faster via Europe and the middle east than YVR. So Craig is not only late to the ball game, but he's also cheering for the wrong team, so to speak....

"focus on your strengths, not your weaknesses"

Flights from UK and Spain especially are so cheap and direct to a city like Bogota compared to the gong show of travelling there from YVR

Johnny Aussie
Mar 25, 2018, 3:48 AM
Sorry if this has been mentioned before.

But why aren't there more flights from Vancouver to Latin America.

I know there are flights to MEX (by MEX I mean Mexico City Airport and not the country) and I know there are flights to sun destinations like CUN (Cancun) and Jamaica and Cuba and stuff. But why aren't there more direct flights to places like Peru or Brazil. I know two guys who work in the mining industry in Vancouver and have to travel regularly to Chile and Peru. Surely, there must be a market for direct flights. Especially as a transit stop between Asia and South America.

I'm pretty sure the CEO of YVR (Craig what's his name) has mentioned this being a goal. I've scrolled and scrolled but couldn't see this topic discussed. So again I apologise if it has been and I'm just too dumb to notice.

osirisboy
Mar 25, 2018, 4:17 AM
Sorry if this has been mentioned before.

But why aren't there more flights from Vancouver to Latin America.

I know there are flights to MEX (by MEX I mean Mexico City Airport and not the country) and I know there are flights to sun destinations like CUN (Cancun) and Jamaica and Cuba and stuff. But why aren't there more direct flights to places like Peru or Brazil. I know two guys who work in the mining industry in Vancouver and have to travel regularly to Chile and Peru. Surely, there must be a market for direct flights. Especially as a transit stop between Asia and South America.

I'm pretty sure the CEO of YVR (Craig what's his name) has mentioned this being a goal. I've scrolled and scrolled but couldn't see this topic discussed. So again I apologise if it has been and I'm just too dumb to notice.

Connecting Asia with South America via Vancouver I believe is richmonds goal. So I would assume eventually cities in South America will be connected

trofirhen
Mar 25, 2018, 9:33 AM
Just because Craig wants something doesn't mean it will happen. It has to make financial sense, even after the incentives have come and gone. Right now, YVR-South America doesn't make financial sense. That might change one day......

Anyways, excluding to Japan, South America-Asia is faster via Europe and the middle east than YVR. So Craig is not only late to the ball game, but he's also cheering for the wrong team, so to speak....

"focus on your strengths, not your weaknesses"

Checking the air miles calculator, I think you are partly right , and partly not. From much of China, South America is closer via Europe and Dubai, esp GRU and GIG ...eastern South America.
But from Northeast Asia, esp Japan, it is closer via Vancouver to Lima (CHA) and SCL. So there may be "strengths" in connections from Japan and Korea.
YVR may fit well as a connection hub to Lima and Santiago. From Japan, at least, this seems the case.

thenoflyzone
Mar 25, 2018, 12:44 PM
But why aren't there more direct flights to places like Peru or Brazil. I know two guys who work in the mining industry in Vancouver and have to travel regularly to Chile and Peru. Surely, there must be a market for direct flights. Especially as a transit stop between Asia and South America.



Three fold.

1. Lack of O&D (although people keep saying it's increasing. That's good, as it is the first step in the right direction to launch flights)
2. YVR isn't well located to act as a connector hub for other North American destinations. And as mentioned, not well located for Brazil-Asia (ex. Japan) as well.
3. Aircraft utilization is atrocious on North America-South America flights, especially if you are going after connections to other continents. Aircraft routinely sit in South America for over 10, 12 hours, so that they are timed well on the return flights. AC's YYZ-GRU spends 10 hours in GRU. (same thing happens in JNB on the European carriers. North-South flights simply dont connect well with east-west flights)

I wrote about this on airliners last month I believe. I actually counted the ground time at GRU for a potential YVR-GRU-YVR flight by AC, timed to connect with the Asian arrivals and departures out of YVR. The plane would need to spend 18 hours on the ground at GRU to accommodate this. This is why you don't see many west coast-Brazil flights, even in the US.

Basically, you can throw all the money you want to AC, still doesn't look good when they can launch other routes with higher O&D and much better aircraft utilization. The only way you can do quick turn arounds is if you're not targeting connecting traffic per se, but rather O&D. This will need to increase for YVR to attract a Canadian carrier to South America or a South American carrier to YVR.

WS did specifically show YVR-SCL and YVR-LIM in their potential route map for the 787s. Who knows, maybe they will be the ones to launch South American ops out of YVR. I'm not holding my breathe, though. After all, they did have NAN and RAR on there as well....:uhh:

Edit: Found my post on airliners.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1386117&hilit=thenoflyzone&start=50

Scroll down to reply 67.

excel
Mar 25, 2018, 8:05 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Johnny was just trying to stir the pot on an already exhausted topic.

thenoflyzone
Mar 25, 2018, 9:30 PM
But from Northeast Asia, esp Japan, it is closer via Vancouver to Lima (CHA) and SCL. So there may be "strengths" in connections from Japan and Korea.
YVR may fit well as a connection hub to Lima and Santiago. From Japan, at least, this seems the case.

Problem is, the O&D to LIM/SCL is far weaker than to Brazil.

Also, LAX is even better than YVR when it comes to SCL or LIM to Asia. And from Brazil to Japan, YYZ sits right on top of the great circle route. So YVR loses out, be it from western South America or eastern.

O&D, O&D, O&D.......

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Johnny was just trying to stir the pot on an already exhausted topic.


It's ok. Now trofirhen doesn't have to scroll back too much to find the relevant info.

trofirhen
Mar 26, 2018, 12:39 AM
It's ok. Now trofirhen doesn't have to scroll back too much to find the relevant info.

Bang Bang!! You got me!! :handguns: Oh well .... I tried. Now I give up. The campaign is lost. So be it. Bury me on Boot Hill.

thenoflyzone
Mar 27, 2018, 9:52 PM
10. ORD 12.46 million
11.YVR 12.43 million


Looks like ORD is not going down without a fight.

Norwegian launched year round LGW-ORD a few days ago.
AA begins seasonal ORD-VCE in May
LO begins year round BUD-ORD in May.
ET is launching year round ADD-ORD in June.
NZ announced year round AKL-ORD starting November 30 (a bit late to help 2018 numbers, but still worth mentioning)

With the last two routes in that list, ORD will go from serving 4 continents to all 6 inhabited continents.

Denscity
Mar 28, 2018, 12:52 AM
Looks like ORD is not going down without a fight.

Norwegian launched year round LGW-ORD a few days ago.
AA begins seasonal ORD-VCE in May
LO begins year round BUD-ORD in May.
ET is launching year round ADD-ORD in June.
NZ announced year round AKL-ORD starting November 30 (a bit late to help 2018 numbers, but still worth mentioning)

With the last two routes in that list, ORD will go from serving 4 continents to all 6 inhabited continents.

What no Chicago - Antarctica flight?? :P

POCO
Mar 28, 2018, 2:09 AM
What no Chicago - Antarctica flight?? :P

Who wants to fly to that frozen hellscape?

Klazu
Mar 28, 2018, 2:50 AM
Just booking a Europe trip in May and noticed LH 477 YVR-MUC will be operated by an A350-900!

I was also looking at this connection few weeks ago when booking my trip to Finland. It was exactly the same price as BA, but I decided to go with the A380 instead due to the much better connection times through LHR. Lufthansa connections on the way back to Vancouver require leaving very early from most European cities, making them a lot less desirable than BA.

It would have been cool to try both on the same go, but them being on different alliances didn't really make it possible. Too bad that Finnair flies their A350's only to Asia.


Bang Bang!! You got me!! :handguns: Oh well .... I tried. Now I give up. The campaign is lost. So be it. Bury me on Boot Hill.

Hey, at least until next month! :rolleyes:

Klazu
Mar 28, 2018, 2:53 AM
Just simply show how bad North American airports are in general. Unless something dramatic happens, I don't see YVR lose the top title next year or the year after that. After all, they are still 15 ranks higher than the next-highest North America airport...

I think there is actually a genuine risk of starting to fall places on this list just due to the fact that passenger numbers are growing so rapidly and their expansions a moving forward very slowly. YVR has already become noticeably more crowded in the last 5 years, making it less pleasant to fly from.

Johnny Aussie
Mar 28, 2018, 3:08 AM
As for YVR vs ORD for int’l traffic

YVR got off to a smoking start in January.

YVR’s 2018 growth has plenty of capacity increases coming up this summer as well plus new winter 2018/2019 upgrades to come. YVR’s 2018 numbers will also be boosted by all the 2017 additions that haven’t had a full year realised either.

Regardless the fact that YVR is so close to the US’s third largest metro area and with all their international flights really shows how impressive YVR’s numbers are.

trofirhen
Mar 28, 2018, 4:14 AM
As for YVR vs ORD for int’l traffic

YVR got off to a smoking start in January.

YVR’s 2018 growth has plenty of capacity increases coming up this summer as well plus new winter 2018/2019 upgrades to come. YVR’s 2018 numbers will also be boosted by all the 2017 additions that haven’t had a full year realised either.

Regardless the fact that YVR is so close to the US’s third largest metro area and with all their international flights really shows how impressive YVR’s numbers are.

Not only what you say is true about YVR being, in relative terms, close to Chicago, but the fact that Vancouver is about one fifth the size of the Chicago Metro population.

moosejaw
Mar 28, 2018, 4:14 PM
Not only what you say is true about YVR being, in relative terms, close to Chicago, but the fact that Vancouver is about one fifth the size of the Chicago Metro population.

Althought populations do have some revelance to the statistics, its more of YVRs geodistance to Asia in which it gains an advantage

Denscity
Mar 28, 2018, 5:02 PM
^^^ Yes and the eastern North American cities are relatively close to so many European cities.

LeftCoaster
Mar 29, 2018, 1:22 AM
Who wants to fly to that frozen hellscape?

Hey man Chicago's a nice place! :haha:

^^^ Yes and the eastern North American cities are relatively close to so many European cities.

And much closer to South America and the middle east. Geographically YVR is much more isolated and disadvantaged than somewhere like Chicago.

Still I expect YVR to pass ORD in the next year or two, especially given the growth is not just intl but transborder and there's tons of that coming for YVR too.

Vagabond
Mar 29, 2018, 2:33 AM
This could be equally applicable to CXH as YVR, but Harbour Air has applied to fly international (https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2018-60).

twoNeurons
Mar 29, 2018, 8:02 PM
I'm happy to see ORD get more connections. Flying on UA using Aeroplan points means no fuel surcharges and ORD and EWR are two major connection points you have to use to find flights on UA.

thenoflyzone
Mar 29, 2018, 9:21 PM
Still I expect YVR to pass ORD in the next year or two, especially given the growth is not just intl but transborder and there's tons of that coming for YVR too.

YVR will most likely pass ORD this year. But what could end up happening is ORD regaining top spot, if AC slows down expansion in the coming years. More foreign airlines are interested in adding service to ORD, including QF.

I'm happy to see ORD get more connections. Flying on UA using Aeroplan points means no fuel surcharges and ORD and EWR are two major connection points you have to use to find flights on UA.

Indeed. Both ORD and EWR benefit from huge O&D and mega-hub status. No surprise NZ launched ORD. Wouldn't surprise me to see them in EWR next. And as mentioned, QF is interested in ORD as well.

Hot Rod
Mar 30, 2018, 3:33 AM
Actually, when YVR passes ORD this year it will be short lived as ORD has been embarking on a massive rebuild which so far has included:

redesign of the runways into 5 parallels E-W and retaining 2 crosswinds.

Now, the city and hub airlines have agreed to a terminal reconfiguration which will de-hub the International Terminal 5 and redesign existing all terminals to allow for full alliance config: Star Alliance/United hub in One, OneWorld/American in Two, and SkyTeam/Delta and others in the expanded T5. All new config terminals will have Customs and Immigration; allowing ORD to be the ONLY international airport in North America with separate hub terminals based on alliance.

The above will allow for much better connections from the US majors to the foreign flags, ala Beijing Capital Airport and the effect should be similar - a HUGE rise in passenger numbers at ORD. This is all 5-10 years away but even with the runway design ORD can increase capacity enough to likely re-take the lead from YVR after a year or two.

Anyway, I think the message is it's very impressive of YVRs pax numbers particularly when compared to a world city such as Chicago and the very impressive business connections that city has. To even be mentioned let alone take the lead (even if for a year or two) is very impressive.

Johnny Aussie
Mar 30, 2018, 4:34 AM
Let's not beat this topic to death or over analyse what may or may happen.

You are correct HotRod the message is, and for whatever the reasons, YVR's international traffic to be so huge especially compared to other large North American cities is downright impressive... at this point YVR and ORD have less than 100,000 international pax separating their totals. Would never have thought that would happen even 5 years ago. And to be served by no fewer than 24 overseas long-haul carriers is crazy insane for YVR. :tup:

thenoflyzone
Mar 30, 2018, 1:34 PM
I really hope we can hold on to a few or DUB and NGO might be in trouble.

Rouge 767s will completely exit YVR. Expect to see changes to DUB, NGO and KIX next year. Either mainline or the chopper.

Quoting longhauler from airliners.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1389793

I think the 767 at Rouge will remain for quite a while. It is a very capable airframe and very versatile. The company is acknowledging reliability issues encountered at Rouge. But those issues were the result of tight scheduling and nothing to do with the aircraft itself. The Rouge 767 operation is moving to entirely in YYZ and YUL and scheduling will be looser ... to mitigate those issues.



It’s very possible AC may still base a rouge 763 or two at YVR in summer 2019.

Doesn't seem to be the case.

Otherwise DUB would most likely have to move to mainline. As for NGO? Perhaps that goes mainline as well... maybe one of the last remaining mainline 763 routes, maybe one of the new 330 routes or it gets cut altogether!?

I wouldn't be surprised to see AC shuttle more A330's between YUL/YYZ and YVR, and use them for NGO, KIX and DUB. That would explain the 4 additional A333s coming online next year. YVR-KIX/NGO/DUB are all well withing range of the A333s.

We'll find out soon enough what their plan is for summer 2019, as they start loading the schedules in a few months.



I could see NGO being dropped, as it seems the route hasn't been doing all that well. KIX is supposedly mainline for the S19 season, and I could see Dublin being mainlined in S19 as well, rotating thru YUL or YYZ with a a333, or a 788 perhaps. All in all, the loss of a route compared to the number of mainlined routes, both shorthaul and longhaul is worth it i believe.

I think you're on to something....;)

trofirhen
Mar 30, 2018, 10:04 PM
New Zealand is a beautiful country with an amazingly mild climate, dream scenery - and towns!! - and a fine quality of life and attracts both tourists, and people wanting to settle there.

There seems to be market at YVR. Although most routngs LHR to AKL, are usually through DXB, HK, SIN, beween Emirates, Air NZ itself, Singapore Airlines, China Southern, and more.
However, in fact, London to Auckland is closer via Vancouver that the "Indian Ocean route. "
Here I've used DXB as the transfer point. Seemed pretty standard.

LHR - YVR - AKL 18937 km

LHR - DXB - AKL 19705 km

Amsterdam is slighter closer via YVR also, but..... what just a few degrees of longitude makes!! From Frankfurt, it's:
via DXB - 19050 km, Through - YVR: 19422 km. Whew!!
_________________
OK, thank you. My point is/ does there exist a such a market from NZ to London and Western Europe due to the shorter distance, or perhaps not.

Air New Zealand is getting ambitious. It's going into major US makets, and alreadyhas LAX as a focus city.
However, given that Boeing 777LR and 789s can do 15,000 km up, and given that if there's a market coming up at ORD (Dallas dropped), YYZ could be on the radar. There must be enough O&D to make the route as profitable as seems (6,times a week). YVR, it seems, cannot rest on its laurels as a a NZ top dog jumping-off point any more.

and as a footnote:
*!! And LHR - HON is only 11847 km nonstop. Over the pole. Doable. Via YVR it's 18937 km. So that must surely rule out YVR as a transfer from Europe to Hawaii, as I believe somone had suggested not too long back. Hey they do that if there's enough intrest!!! LHR over the pole, I mean!! Is there such a service already?:rolleyes::???:
And from many other points in Western Europe.
(Thank you for your time and consideration;)

trofirhen
Mar 30, 2018, 10:06 PM
YVR will most likely pass ORD this year. But what could end up happening is ORD regaining top spot, if AC slows down expansion in the coming years. More foreign airlines are interested in adding service to ORD, including QF.



Indeed. Both ORD and EWR benefit from huge O&D and mega-hub status. No surprise NZ launched ORD. Wouldn't surprise me to see them in EWR next. And as mentioned, QF is interested in ORD as well.

What about YYZ? 7m big market. Possible? Would compete with Vancouver.

Johnny Aussie
Mar 31, 2018, 4:04 AM
Well we waited forever for YYZ to publish their 2017 figures and then just a few days later they published Jan 2018.

Here's a snapshot of how YVR compared to the other big 4 for Jan 2018 compared to Jan 2017:

YYZ TTL up 4.3% - Dom up 2.7% - Int up 5.0% (TB 3.0% Other Int 6.5%)
YVR TTL up 8.2% - Dom up 7.0% - Int up 9.3% (TB 11.0% Other Int 7.9%)
YUL TTL up 5.5% - Dom up 4.2% - Int up 6.3% (TB 4.6% Other Int 7.2%)
YYC TTL up 5.4% - Dom up 3.7% - Int up 8.8% (TB 7.2% Other Int 11.2%)

In aggregate TTL pax numbers YYZ was up 150,671 followed closely by YVR at 146,743.

YVR's growth rates were the highest for all categories except Other International which was highest at YYC, YVR was second.

Although YYC had the highest % increase in Other International, its aggregate increase was only 18,742 compared to YVR's 40,258 increase.

Feb figures should be out soon and with Chinese New Year occurring in Feb compared to last year YVR's Asia Pacific numbers should be very strong.

casper
Mar 31, 2018, 9:40 AM
New Zealand is a beautiful country with an amazingly mild climate, dream scenery - and towns!! - and a fine quality of life and attracts both tourists, and people wanting to settle there.

There seems to be market at YVR. Although most routngs LHR to AKL, are usually through DXB, HK, SIN, beween Emirates, Air NZ itself, Singapore Airlines, China Southern, and more.
However, in fact, London to Auckland is closer via Vancouver that the "Indian Ocean route. "
Here I've used DXB as the transfer point. Seemed pretty standard.

LHR - YVR - AKL 18937 km

LHR - DXB - AKL 19705 km

Amsterdam is slighter closer via YVR also, but..... what just a few degrees of longitude makes!! From Frankfurt, it's:
via DXB - 19050 km, Through - YVR: 19422 km. Whew!!
_________________
OK, thank you. My point is/ does there exist a such a market from NZ to London and Western Europe due to the shorter distance, or perhaps not.

Air New Zealand is getting ambitious. It's going into major US makets, and alreadyhas LAX as a focus city.
However, given that Boeing 777LR and 789s can do 15,000 km up, and given that if there's a market coming up at ORD (Dallas dropped), YYZ could be on the radar. There must be enough O&D to make the route as profitable as seems (6,times a week). YVR, it seems, cannot rest on its laurels as a a NZ top dog jumping-off point any more.

and as a footnote:
*!! And LHR - HON is only 11847 km nonstop. Over the pole. Doable. Via YVR it's 18937 km. So that must surely rule out YVR as a transfer from Europe to Hawaii, as I believe somone had suggested not too long back. Hey they do that if there's enough intrest!!! LHR over the pole, I mean!! Is there such a service already?:rolleyes::???:
And from many other points in Western Europe.
(Thank you for your time and consideration;)

Air New Zealand does fly to LHR with a stop at LAX. I believe they are allowed to sell the LAX-LHR segment. I don't know how many local LAX passengers they pickup. Given LAX is not a hub for any other Star Alliance member (aka United), it is probably a non-issue. If they did the same thing via YVR they would probably be rocking the boat a bit to much with their local partner (aka Air Canada).

Johnny Aussie
Apr 1, 2018, 1:26 AM
Air New Zealand does fly to LHR with a stop at LAX. I believe they are allowed to sell the LAX-LHR segment. I don't know how many local LAX passengers they pickup. Given LAX is not a hub for any other Star Alliance member (aka United), it is probably a non-issue. If they did the same thing via YVR they would probably be rocking the boat a bit to much with their local partner (aka Air Canada).

United sees LAX as a hub actually and they have quite the significant route system there.

However, NZ at YVR is mainly catering to passenger flows between NZ/Australia and Canada. Every day plenty of pax from MEL, BNE and SYD are transferring on the NZ flights to YVR among other places like PER, ADL, OOL etc... AC then carries pax onwards from YVR to YYJ, YLW, YEG and YYC etc. Of course with an increasing number of nonstop Australia - YVR flights coming online, NZ is at risk of significant bleed to these direct flights. However, NZ has been constantly increasing frequencies on AKL-YVR, so I'll assume that route is doing OK at least... plenty of pie to go around.

Last time I looked BA flies LHR-HNL 5 x a day? That's a huge market. It's all easily found on the internet.

trofirhen
Apr 1, 2018, 3:11 AM
United sees LAX as a hub actually and they have quite the significant route system there.

However, NZ at YVR is mainly catering to passenger flows between NZ/Australia and Canada. Every day plenty of pax from MEL, BNE and SYD are transferring on the NZ flights to YVR among other places like PER, ADL, OOL etc... AC then carries pax onwards from YVR to YYJ, YLW, YEG and YYC etc. Of course with an increasing number of nonstop Australia - YVR flights coming online, NZ is at risk of significant bleed to these direct flights. However, NZ has been constantly increasing frequencies on AKL-YVR, so I'll assume that route is doing OK at least... plenty of pie to go around.

Last time I looked BA flies LHR-HNL 5 x a day? That's a huge market. It's all easily found on the internet.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I checked travel sites on the internet, and it seems ALL flights LHR - HNL have a stop, bet it LAX, YVR, SFO, etc..... Is there no nonstop?
It's over the pole; a long flight, yes, but within range of 777LR and 789s easily, and much shorter. If there are no nonstops, does this not fly in the face of mileage;
or are there other reasons?

SpongeG
Apr 1, 2018, 9:19 AM
WLohqCRYn1o

POCO
Apr 1, 2018, 1:56 PM
Yea i was pretty certain that there were no direct lhr-hnl flights. I recall some discusion on a.net and it seemed to come down to hnl being too far, not having the premium demand and there being tons of other much cheaper vacations options with shorter flights. With this an expensive non-stop would have a hard time competing with the numerous one stop options for the relatively small amount of low yield traffic.

trofirhen
Apr 1, 2018, 6:25 PM
Yea i was pretty certain that there were no direct lhr-hnl flights. I recall some discusion on a.net and it seemed to come down to hnl being too far, not having the premium demand and there being tons of other much cheaper vacations options with shorter flights. With this an expensive non-stop would have a hard time competing with the numerous one stop options for the relatively small amount of low yield traffic.

Aah, now I get it. Thank you for that explanation. Incidentally, the distances from LHR to HNL with an intermediate stop:

via LAX 12894 km

via YVR 11995 km

casper
Apr 1, 2018, 6:52 PM
Aah, now I get it. Thank you for that explanation. Incidentally, the distances from LHR to HNL with an intermediate stop:

via LAX 12894 km

via YVR 11995 km

Just tried doing a search on Expedia to see what that trip would like with current airline schedules. For the random date I picked in May, Air Canada via Vancouver was the best option at 17 1/2 hours. Followed by Virgin Atlantic connecting to Delta in LAX at 19 1/2 hours. United was a few minutes longer via SFO. Everything else was a 3 stop flight.

Johnny Aussie
Apr 1, 2018, 7:57 PM
Just tried doing a search on Expedia to see what that trip would like with current airline schedules. For the random date I picked in May, Air Canada via Vancouver was the best option at 17 1/2 hours. Followed by Virgin Atlantic connecting to Delta in LAX at 19 1/2 hours. United was a few minutes longer via SFO. Everything else was a 3 stop flight.

Yeah!! YVR can become the hub for the massive Europe - Hawaii market!

casper
Apr 1, 2018, 10:42 PM
Yeah!! YVR can become the hub for the massive Europe - Hawaii market!

I am certain all those Londoners who want to escape the rain for sun and sand when presented with the option of 3 hour flight to FAO or a 17 1/2 hour flight to HNL are going to go with that option especially once they find out they get to spend an hour in Vancouver. Only costs 3-4 more than the Algarve. :)

deasine
Apr 2, 2018, 12:15 AM
...Not to mention all those British Airways flights to the Caribbean...

Johnny Aussie
Apr 2, 2018, 1:33 AM
...Not to mention all those British Airways flights to the Caribbean...

And Florida, and Greece, and Mexico, and South America, and North Africa, and California, and.....

So I guess YVR’s aspirations to become THE hub for Europe to Hawaii are dashed once again! Let’s see what possible scenario is next... I know! How about YVR as THE transfer hub from South America to Asia? I still think YVR up for a direct flight to Cedar Rapids. I’d think a couple of E75 flights per day on United Express.

trofirhen
Apr 2, 2018, 2:40 AM
And Florida, and Greece, and Mexico, and South America, and North Africa, and California, and.....

So I guess YVR’s aspirations to become THE hub for Europe to Hawaii are dashed once again! Let’s see what possible scenario is next... I know! How about YVR as THE transfer hub from South America to Asia? I still think YVR up for a direct flight to Cedar Rapids. I’d think a couple of E75 flights per day on United Express.

Johnny, I appreciate the humor in your post, especially about Cedar Rapids!! (and don't forget Billings, Montana, Rapid City SD, and Duluth MN).....
But South America being written off IS a downer. Unrealistic in most senses, I know, but it WAS something Craig Richmond wanted, and I'd love to see, even just GRU and nothing else.

POCO
Apr 2, 2018, 5:02 AM
Well maybe someone will fly A321NEO LRs from YVR to South America :P They can apparently fly 11+ hours lol.

casper
Apr 2, 2018, 7:34 AM
Johnny, I appreciate the humor in your post, especially about Cedar Rapids!! (and don't forget Billings, Montana, Rapid City SD, and Duluth MN).....
But South America being written off IS a downer. Unrealistic in most senses, I know, but it WAS something Craig Richmond wanted, and I'd love to see, even just GRU and nothing else.

Actually I would not be surprised to see of the small US cities getting picked up over time. Spokane comes to mind as a good target. Perhaps a B1900 or Dash-100 type destination.

Secondary Eastern US cities that do not have flights to Europe was part of the AC strategy for building out YYZ. For YVR, it would be Western US Cities without Asia service.

It is going to harder for YVR. Western US Cities are not as close, they have lower population and Asia is a less popular region from the US that Europe. I think the best bet is California.

twoNeurons
Apr 2, 2018, 5:00 PM
Actually I would not be surprised to see of the small US cities getting picked up over time. Spokane comes to mind as a good target. Perhaps a B1900 or Dash-100 type destination.

Secondary Eastern US cities that do not have flights to Europe was part of the AC strategy for building out YYZ. For YVR, it would be Western US Cities without Asia service.

It is going to harder for YVR. Western US Cities are not as close, they have lower population and Asia is a less popular region from the US that Europe. I think the best bet is California.

Spokane has a really big Alaska presence, though. It'd be a tougher market to penetrate given Alaska has numerous code-share arrangements with other airlines across alliances. That being said, Alaska doesn't partner with Delta any longer, so maybe there's room to siphon some Spokane-Asia traffic from AK to smaller Asian cities. Alaska already partners with Cathay, Hainan, JAL, and Korean Airlines... so other than flying to Taiwan or Japan ( JAL doesn't fly SEA-NRT I believe ) people living in AK-spokes have decent options.

And for anything else, Spokane also has DL to Seattle anyhow. What advantage does going through YVR give them?

whatnext
Apr 2, 2018, 5:14 PM
Actually I would not be surprised to see of the small US cities getting picked up over time. Spokane comes to mind as a good target. Perhaps a B1900 or Dash-100 type destination.

Secondary Eastern US cities that do not have flights to Europe was part of the AC strategy for building out YYZ. For YVR, it would be Western US Cities without Asia service.

It is going to harder for YVR. Western US Cities are not as close, they have lower population and Asia is a less popular region from the US that Europe. I think the best bet is California.

AC Jazz used to serve Spokane. Given they dropped it, the demand must not have been there.

trofirhen
Apr 2, 2018, 5:23 PM
Actually I would not be surprised to see of the small US cities getting picked up over time. Spokane comes to mind as a good target. Perhaps a B1900 or Dash-100 type destination.

Secondary Eastern US cities that do not have flights to Europe was part of the AC strategy for building out YYZ. For YVR, it would be Western US Cities without Asia service.

It is going to harder for YVR. Western US Cities are not as close, they have lower population and Asia is a less popular region from the US that Europe. I think the best bet is California.

Yes, but doesn't YVR already have most of California already served? I mean with Sacramento coming back onstream, SFO, San Jose, LAX, SAN, and Orange county already covered ....
Or do you mean that what we already have from California is our major intake from the USA? Or are there any new destinations there to be had?

Lancaster
Apr 2, 2018, 6:08 PM
Secondary Eastern US cities that do not have flights to Europe was part of the AC strategy for building out YYZ. For YVR, it would be Western US Cities without Asia service.

It is going to harder for YVR. Western US Cities are not as close, they have lower population and Asia is a less popular region from the US that Europe. I think the best bet is California.

As was mentioned - AC alone services most of the major gateways into California. LAX, SFO, SJC, SAN, SMF, all covered. Maybe OAK, SNA, and ONT in the not-so-immediate future, but hard time believing BUR, LGB and PSP (year-round) are out there. Not with MSP, SLC, AUS, ABQ, SAT, ELP, TUS, EGE, OKC, etc. all still possible places for service.

twoNeurons
Apr 2, 2018, 6:38 PM
As was mentioned - AC alone services most of the major gateways into California. LAX, SFO, SJC, SAN, SMF, all covered. Maybe OAK, SNA, and ONT in the not-so-immediate future, but hard time believing BUR, LGB and PSP (year-round) are out there. Not with MSP, SLC, AUS, ABQ, SAT, ELP, TUS, EGE, OKC, etc. all still possible places for service.

OR how about CLT (Charlotte), MSY ( New Orleans ) and STL ( ST. Louis ) or BNA (Nashville). These are all US hubs that I don't think are served from YVR at all. Charlotte is a particularly large hub that isn't served by YVR.

Curious why you mentioned OKC instead of MCI ( Kansas City ) though.

Lancaster
Apr 2, 2018, 6:56 PM
OR how about CLT (Charlotte), MSY ( New Orleans ) and STL ( ST. Louis ) or BNA (Nashville). These are all US hubs that I don't think are served from YVR at all. Charlotte is a particularly large hub that isn't served by YVR.

Curious why you mentioned OKC instead of MCI ( Kansas City ) though.

Just mentioning cities in the western states. MCI would definitely be a great addition too. Tons of options out there besides California!

casper
Apr 2, 2018, 7:52 PM
OR how about CLT (Charlotte), MSY ( New Orleans ) and STL ( ST. Louis ) or BNA (Nashville). These are all US hubs that I don't think are served from YVR at all. Charlotte is a particularly large hub that isn't served by YVR.

Curious why you mentioned OKC instead of MCI ( Kansas City ) though.

If AC is adding capacity it is either Toronto (or Montreal) or Vancouver. Some of those more eastern and mid-west cities may have faster connections on AC through YYZ than YVR.

The hub airports all have a dominate carrier that AC has to compete with. The larger outstations don't.

From Lancaster list I would toss in LAT. Reno is also a weird one, it is a weird one.

Reecemartin
Apr 2, 2018, 9:25 PM
Any progress reports on the new parking garage?

LeftCoaster
Apr 2, 2018, 9:43 PM
Actually, when YVR passes ORD this year it will be short lived as ORD has been embarking on a massive rebuild which so far has included:

YVR is also just embarking on a very large expansion. This expansion will be well timed to the delivery of WestJet's 789s and a likely expansion of the Canada/Chinese bilateral allowing for a continuation of growth. I'm not so sure ORD will just waltz in and take the crown back so easily.

LeftCoaster
Apr 2, 2018, 9:52 PM
Rouge 767s will completely exit YVR. Expect to see changes to DUB, NGO and KIX next year. Either mainline or the chopper.

Quoting longhauler from airliners.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1389793


I do hope they rethink that plan. While Rouge is not an ideal product it has been great to grow routes that otherwise would not exist. The benefit of moving routes like Dublin and Osaka to mainline pale in comparison to the benefits of opening up and maturing new routes with Rouge. I seriously question whether Osaka would be a mainline route in 2019 were it not a Rouge route to begin with.

Fingers crossed a 767 or two remain in YVR, or at least rotate through to open up routes like LIM, CTS, BER or BCN.

SFUVancouver
Apr 2, 2018, 10:04 PM
YVR is also just embarking on a very large expansion. This expansion will be well timed to the delivery of WestJet's 789s and a likely expansion of the Canada/Chinese bilateral allowing for a continuation of growth. I'm not so sure ORD will just waltz in and take the crown back so easily.

Westjet and Air Canada are also in the midst of narrow body fleet renewal & expansion programs that densify cabins, so the available seat numbers will go up for existing routes even as new ones are added.

Excited to see what the coming years hold.

Jebby
Apr 2, 2018, 10:34 PM
Hadn't seen this posted yet:

WestJet launches direct flights from YVR to Mexico City

....

WestJet will begin with three flights per week from Vancouver to Mexico City, but by April 29 will move to a daily service. The airline is also providing new direct flights from Calgary to Mexico City.


http://www.richmond-news.com/news/westjet-launches-direct-flights-from-yvr-to-mexico-city-1.23202809

LeftCoaster
Apr 2, 2018, 10:47 PM
Yep, was posted back in January.

5 carriers on YVR-MEX, pretty nuts after just AC for years.

trofirhen
Apr 3, 2018, 1:51 AM
I do hope they rethink that plan. While Rouge is not an ideal product it has been great to grow routes that otherwise would not exist. The benefit of moving routes like Dublin and Osaka to mainline pale in comparison to the benefits of opening up and maturing new routes with Rouge. I seriously question whether Osaka would be a mainline route in 2019 were it not a Rouge route to begin with.

Fingers crossed a 767 or two remain in YVR, or at least rotate through to open up routes like LIM, CTS, BER or BCN.

Pleased to see one South American destination in your list, even if its seasonal. As far as Barcelona (BCN) Norwegian has a hub there.
I'd love to see Norwegian do a summer seasonal from YVR, if only for those snazzy red 789s ! .... Neh! Ottawa would block that.

excel
Apr 3, 2018, 1:56 AM
Hadn't seen this posted yet:

Are you going to come visit us?

Alpine
Apr 3, 2018, 2:05 AM
According to airliners.net, YVR-IST by TK will be announced anytime now :???:

Some additional info I gleaned from the A.net thread: Turkish is starting SEA-IST sometime in 2019. It'll be 3x weekly 787-9. In addition, Transport Canada/AC are offering TK 3x weekly slots to Vancouver. If all goes to plan, TK will start 3x weekly IST-YVR service using 777-300ER as early as spring 2019.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1385167&p=20248287&hilit=yvr+turkish#p20248287

Apparently user CPA62 was told by the Turkish Airlines general sales agent (in Toronto, perhaps?) about the spring 2019 start date.

Great news on the WS to MEX front; not even a couple of years ago I don't think there were any Vancouver-Mexico flights outside of the sun and sand tourist/charter flights that run November-April. The more flight connections to our NAFTA allies, the better I say.

I do hope they rethink that plan. While Rouge is not an ideal product it has been great to grow routes that otherwise would not exist. The benefit of moving routes like Dublin and Osaka to mainline pale in comparison to the benefits of opening up and maturing new routes with Rouge. I seriously question whether Osaka would be a mainline route in 2019 were it not a Rouge route to begin with.

Fingers crossed a 767 or two remain in YVR, or at least rotate through to open up routes like LIM, CTS, BER or BCN.

I wonder if the dominance of the Shinkansen has something to do with it. Out of the 30.1 million trips between the Tokyo and Nagoya areas in 2015-16, only about 600,000 or so were by plane; Shinkansen has a 92.9% market share in that corridor (calculated from this spreadsheet of Japanese government data (http://www.mlit.go.jp/k-toukei/search/excel/17/17201600x00202.xls) and some fiddling in Excel). Maybe direct flights to NGO just can't compete with mainline flights to NRT/HND and taking a Shinkansen to Nagoya. The same thing happened to HND-SDJ flights after the Tohoku Shinkansen started in 1982. And now, with the Hokkaido Shinkansen crossing the Seikan Tunnel and reaching Hakodate, the HND-AOJ (JAL used to fly 6x roundtrips daily between Haneda and Aomori) and HND-HKD markets have vanished; why fly when you can take the train directly? Currently, Haneda-New Chitose (Sapporo) is the busiest airline route in the world; wait until the Hokkaido Shinkansen reaches Sapporo in 2031 and you might see the Haneda-Sapporo route shrink dramatically.

casper
Apr 3, 2018, 3:45 AM
Great news on the WS to MEX front; not even a couple of years ago I don't think there were any Vancouver-Mexico flights outside of the sun and sand tourist/charter flights that run November-April. The more flight connections to our NAFTA allies, the better I say.


Historically it was operated as a tag-on by Japan Airlines. At times it would have been a 747, the originated in Tokyo, stopped in Vancouver and continued to Mexico City a few days of the week. I believe that came to an end when JAL run into financial problems and downsized quite a bit.

trofirhen
Apr 3, 2018, 4:57 AM
Some additional info I gleaned from the A.net thread: Turkish is starting SEA-IST sometime in 2019. It'll be 3x weekly 787-9. In addition, Transport Canada/AC are offering TK 3x weekly slots to Vancouver. If all goes to plan, TK will start 3x weekly IST-YVR service using 777-300ER as early as spring 2019.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1385167&p=20248287&hilit=yvr+turkish#p20248287

Apparently user CPA62 was told by the Turkish Airlines general sales agent (in Toronto, perhaps?) about the spring 2019 start date. /please excuse editing


Really? Interesting (about the different metal, too), but ........
I looked that up on airliners.net, and it seems TK is being urealistically pushy, demanding YVR-IST 5x a week (which they'll never get), if not they'll start SEA-IST 3x a week.
And turn down YVR or get locked out.
Why be so dumb? Take the money and run. As I understand, they are offered 3x / week at both YVR and SEA. So why not get your foot in tjhe door at YVR while you can, TK?
Or did I read it wrong? Please correct me if I did. Thank you.

thenoflyzone
Apr 3, 2018, 1:15 PM
As far as Barcelona (BCN) Norwegian has a hub there.
I'd love to see Norwegian do a summer seasonal from YVR, if only for those snazzy red 789s ! .... Neh! Ottawa would block that.

Canada and the European Union have an open skies type agreement. If Norwegian so wished, they could launch triple daily BCN-YVR.



5 carriers on YVR-MEX, pretty nuts after just AC for years.

...only 4 have local traffic rights on YVR-MEX.



Fingers crossed a 767 or two remain in YVR, or at least rotate through to open up routes like LIM, CTS, BER or BCN.

Doesn't look likely.

trofirhen
Apr 3, 2018, 4:44 PM
Canada and the European Union have an open skies type agreement. If Norwegian so wished, they could launch triple daily BCN-YVR.


Please excuse a slight correction on this.
As Norway (and Norwegian itself) are in the Schengen zone, they are not members of the EU (although they have an office in Ireland) they are not free to start up service freely
as is France or Germany etc. There's a "snag," if you will, that complicates this process.

And of course, Turkey is not in the EU at all, so an ameneded Canada-Turkey would have to be made, and Ottawa would never give them 5x / week to YVR, which they want.
Sad to think of YVR losing out on the IST run to Seattle.
That will give SEA two ME destinations, whereas YVR has none - yet.

Lancaster
Apr 3, 2018, 5:41 PM
Please excuse a slight correction on this.
As Norway (and Norwegian itself) are in the Schengen zone, they are not members of the EU (although they have an office in Ireland) they are not free to start up service freely as is France or Germany etc. There's a "snag," if you will, that complicates this process.

Wait, what? I am 100% percent sure that Norwegian is a company registered and operating in the EU.

Sad to think of YVR losing out on the IST run to Seattle.
That will give SEA two ME destinations, whereas YVR has none - yet.

Call me crazy but I am okay with this. YVR benefits from being insulated from ME carriers. If TK were already here it is probably unlikely AC DEL would have been as successful as it has been.

jollyburger
Apr 3, 2018, 6:13 PM
Wait, what? I am 100% percent sure that Norwegian is a company registered and operating in the EU.

It's not an office.

Norwegian Air International is an Ireland based subsidiary.

deasine
Apr 3, 2018, 6:33 PM
Wait, what? I am 100% percent sure that Norwegian is a company registered and operating in the EU.

It's a bit complicated but there is some misinformation in previous posts.

Norway is not a member of the European Union, but is part of the Schengen, European Single Market (through EFTA), and Single European Skies. Various memberships require Norway to also pass relevant laws within Norway that support European policies. However, laws only apply to mainland Norway and not its territories (e.g. Svalbard).

So, any bilaterals with the European Union extend to Norway and Iceland, and thus regulations and obligations apply to companies registered in those areas, but it needs to be ratified first. Norwegian, and any of its current subsidiaries (with the exception of Norwegian Argentina) have the legal right to fly between Canada and any of the European Union cities.

Norwegian International is a vehicle for Norwegian to take advantage of lower cost base and looser business regulations in Ireland. It's similar to SAS Ireland, which ironically doesn't have any Irish presence as its operating bases at Heathrow and Malaga.

Norwegian has previously applied for various licenses and applications with Transport Canada in the past.

Call me crazy but I am okay with this. YVR benefits from being insulated from ME carriers. If TK were already here it is probably unlikely AC DEL would have been as successful as it has been.

Not too sure about this one: AC has definitely benefited from insulation but not necessarily YVR itself. The airport authority likely has more to gain from more carriers (and charges), and the market would have more to gain from increased competition driving down ticket prices. Plus, the market would have significantly increased options for one-stop connectivity throughout the Middle East/Central Asia.

trofirhen
Apr 3, 2018, 6:34 PM
It's not an office.

Norwegian Air International is an Ireland based subsidiary.

Does that mean they are free to operate to Canada, or is there a restriction?
A YVR - BCN summer run would, it seems, be profitable, as this is apparently the most underserved European route from YVR.

jollyburger
Apr 3, 2018, 6:54 PM
Does that mean they are free to operate to Canada, or is there a restriction?
A YVR - BCN summer run would, it seems, be profitable, as this is apparently the most underserved European route from YVR.

"Norwegian Air International is a Dublin-based unit of Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA, which gives it the ability to take advantage of the Canada-EU open-skies treaty.

The Canadian Transportation Agency said in a ruling last week that there is "a high probability" Norwegian will be issued a licence in time for its proposed startup date of July 23."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/norwegian-air-sets-sights-on-canadian-market/article38271813/

trofirhen
Apr 3, 2018, 7:51 PM
"Norwegian Air International is a Dublin-based unit of Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA, which gives it the ability to take advantage of the Canada-EU open-skies treaty.

The Canadian Transportation Agency said in a ruling last week that there is "a high probability" Norwegian will be issued a licence in time for its proposed startup date of July 23."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/norwegian-air-sets-sights-on-canadian-market/article38271813/

Thank you. A positive step forward, but does that mean Norwegian coming to YVR? Ususally these things tend to concern YYZ a whole lot more - perhaps understandably so.

LeftCoaster
Apr 3, 2018, 10:43 PM
...only 4 have local traffic rights on YVR-MEX.


Either way a pretty huge jump.

I'm sure CZ would be selling tickets on the YVR-MEX leg if the Canadian govt would allow them to as well.

Thank you. A positive step forward, but does that mean Norwegian coming to YVR? Ususally these things tend to concern YYZ a whole lot more - perhaps understandably so.

As far as I remember these were for 737MAX flights to eastern Canada, particularly the maritimes. Could be expanded to flights to YVR im sure, but not really what the intent is so far.

thenoflyzone
Apr 3, 2018, 11:28 PM
Thank you. A positive step forward, but does that mean Norwegian coming to YVR? Ususally these things tend to concern YYZ a whole lot more - perhaps understandably so.

YHM will apparently be first to get Norwegian (D8) service.

The company has said they are studying the possibility of launching YUL/YQB-FDF/PTP service as well, as BWI-FDF/PTP didn't do too good, and was already canceled. PVD-FDF/PTP struggled as well.

I wouldn't hold my breath re. Norwegian. They are burning cash faster than that wildfire burnt through Fort Mac.....

Not sustainable. Low cost long haul still hasn't proven itself.

https://centreforaviation.com/insights/analysis/norwegian-air-rapid-expansion--strategic-innovation-hasnt-led-to-profits-yet-it-needs-to-soon-400804