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Johnny Aussie
Apr 4, 2018, 6:49 AM
Hainan already upgauging their upcoming new YVR-TSN-SZX route to a 789 from a 788 from 28 Oct.

Launch in May will be a 788 until then.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/277957/hainan-airlines-w18-shenzhen-long-haul-aircraft-changes/

Some people certainly seem to be sad a lot on this forum. Smile, get outside and do something active it'll make you feel better!

thenoflyzone
Apr 4, 2018, 1:53 PM
Hainan already upgauging their upcoming new YVR-TSN-SZX route to a 789 from a 788 from 28 Oct.

Launch in May will be a 788 until then.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/277957/hainan-airlines-w18-shenzhen-long-haul-aircraft-changes/

Makes sense. The 788 is the most premium heavy config aircraft in their fleet. They use them to LHR, JFK, BRU, MEX, etc

The B789 is better suited for Canada-China.

twoNeurons
Apr 4, 2018, 3:28 PM
I wonder if the dominance of the Shinkansen has something to do with it. Out of the 30.1 million trips between the Tokyo and Nagoya areas in 2015-16, only about 600,000 or so were by plane; Shinkansen has a 92.9% market share in that corridor (calculated from this spreadsheet of Japanese government data (http://www.mlit.go.jp/k-toukei/search/excel/17/17201600x00202.xls) and some fiddling in Excel).

Well, that's partly because people just don't fly when they can take the train and be downtown-downtown in 90 minutes. That being said, Shinkansen is not connected to either airport... so transferring is still annoying.

Maybe direct flights to NGO just can't compete with mainline flights to NRT/HND and taking a Shinkansen to Nagoya. The same thing happened to HND-SDJ flights after the Tohoku Shinkansen started in 1982.

Yes... but again, Sendai is really close to Tokyo... and it doesn't make sense (even with Japan's crazy efficient bus-like airline service, it's still less convenient). Also, Japanese people are culturally accustomed to paying extra for convenience and it's hard to argue that.

However, in both these cases... flying and then transferring to Shinkansen is really inconvenient.... particularly if you're flying on AC or JL... which only fly YVR-NRT (AC had a YVR-HND flight, but didn't stick it out and now ANA has that flight). Particularly keeping in mind that flights into HND are mostly evening flights... which means by the time you actually get to your destination after transferring to local train, then bullet train, then local train again is probably unreasonably late.


And now, with the Hokkaido Shinkansen crossing the Seikan Tunnel and reaching Hakodate, the HND-AOJ (JAL used to fly 6x roundtrips daily between Haneda and Aomori) and HND-HKD markets have vanished; why fly when you can take the train directly? Currently, Haneda-New Chitose (Sapporo) is the busiest airline route in the world; wait until the Hokkaido Shinkansen reaches Sapporo in 2031 and you might see the Haneda-Sapporo route shrink dramatically.

I don't think you'll see HND-CTS shrink that much, to be honest. The Hokkaido Shinkansen will still be 4–5 hours, which is much longer than the Tokaido line, which is 2h 30m and TYO–OSA still flights leaving every hour (mostly HND-ITM, with 3x HND-KIX). In addition, two LCCs operate another 6–7 flights between the less convenient airports KIX and NRT.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Tokyosapporotrainchart.png

I think the REAL disruptor will be the Chuo Maglev Line which is slated to open in 2027 between Shinagawa and Nagoya. That will decrease the Nagoya–Tokyo trip to 40 minutes.
https://www.gov-online.go.jp/eng/publicity/book/hlj/html/201704/img/img_03_52.png

I think this has some PRETTY serious implications for NGO, to be honest. It will be almost faster to take the train to Shinagawa in Tokyo (40 minutes ) than to take the train to NGO Airport ( 35 minutes away ).

So, if you're in Nagoya, you could legitimately choose to fly out of HND or NGO. HND essentially becomes another airport option for Nagoyans. Conversely, NGO would be closer to West Tokyo than Narita. The FASTEST train between Shinagawa(Tokyo) and NRT is currently 80 minutes. You could probably get to NGO in 75 minutes.

Johnny Aussie
Apr 4, 2018, 7:35 PM
Makes sense. The 788 is the most premium heavy config aircraft in their fleet. They use them to LHR, JFK, BRU, MEX, etc

The B789 is better suited for Canada-China.

Hainan’s 4 long haul types range from 30 - 36 J class only. They are not a premium heavy airline to begin with. The change from 788 to 789 is a big jump in overall seats not a significant change in J at all. Plus the YVR route gets their newest product instead of the older A330s. That’s a very positive sign.

thenoflyzone
Apr 4, 2018, 7:58 PM
Hainan’s 4 long haul types range from 30 - 36 J class only. They are not a premium heavy airline to begin with. The change from 788 to 789 is a big jump in overall seats not a significant change in J at all. Plus the YVR route gets their newest product instead of the older A330s. That’s a very positive sign.

Sure, but that doesn't mean HU can't play around with it's fleet to send the right aircraft to the right destination.

A B788 with 36J/177Y is a pretty lean aircraft across the Pacific, and not well suited for a lot of destinations.

Johnny Aussie
Apr 4, 2018, 9:22 PM
Sure, but that doesn't mean HU can't play around with it's fleet to send the right aircraft to the right destination.

A B788 with 36J/177Y is a pretty lean aircraft across the Pacific, and not well suited for a lot of destinations.

I think we can all agree that, outside YYZ, Canada is not a large premium market. YVR’s isn’t actually that bad for a small population base but would be way down the list on a global scale.

I’m just saying in this particular case I doubt their decision was based on J seats. The 333 has the exact same number of seats but only 4 more J. The big positive is YVR is getting one of the planes from their newest fleet. YVR seems to be doing better lately attracting newer fleet types. YVR used to get the bottom of the barrel stuff! :slob:

nname
Apr 5, 2018, 8:54 PM
This could be equally applicable to CXH as YVR, but Harbour Air has applied to fly international (https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2018-60).

Harbour Air and Kenmore Air will operate CXH-LKE-KEH starting Apr 26.

http://vancouversun.com/business/local-business/harbour-airs-promised-vancouver-to-seattle-nerd-bird-set-to-take-flight

casper
Apr 8, 2018, 10:40 AM
Harbour Air and Kenmore Air will operate CXH-LKE-KEH starting Apr 26.

http://vancouversun.com/business/local-business/harbour-airs-promised-vancouver-to-seattle-nerd-bird-set-to-take-flight

What is interesting is just how many customers/immigration points the region will have. Downtown Vancouver will now three locations where customs clearance happen (Canada Place, Pacific Central Station and now this terminal). Add on to that all the cargo terminals (but with far fewer people on those ships).

nname
Apr 8, 2018, 6:23 PM
Effective Oct 28, PR will start direct MNL-JFK. MNL-YVR terminator will become daily while MNL-YVR-JFK will be cancelled.

So CX will once again be the only operator for YVR-JFK.

Johnny Aussie
Apr 8, 2018, 7:56 PM
Effective Oct 28, PR will start direct MNL-JFK. MNL-YVR terminator will become daily while MNL-YVR-JFK will be cancelled.

So CX will once again be the only operator for YVR-JFK.

Was expecting that earlier actually... August was the original estimate.

Don't forget DL runs its seasonal summer daily YVR-JFK as well.

The daily PR 77W will sit on the ground in YVR from 1440 until 0045.

If you saw that on airlineroute.net you should cite the source.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/278011/philippine-airlines-plans-nonstop-new-york-jfk-service-from-oct-2018/

excel
Apr 8, 2018, 8:06 PM
Was expecting that earlier actually... August was the original estimate.

Don't forget DL runs its seasonal summer daily YVR-JFK as well.

The daily PR 77W will sit on the ground in YVR from 1440 until 0045.

If you saw that on airlineroute.net you should cite the source.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/278011/philippine-airlines-plans-nonstop-new-york-jfk-service-from-oct-2018/

What aircraft does DL operate to JFK?

nname
Apr 9, 2018, 12:13 AM
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/278011/philippine-airlines-plans-nonstop-new-york-jfk-service-from-oct-2018/

Oh, didn't see it was posted when I was typing that post...

Johnny Aussie
Apr 9, 2018, 1:29 AM
what aircraft does dl operate to jfk?

737-900er

thenoflyzone
Apr 9, 2018, 2:02 AM
Now that PR will start non stop MNL-JFK, makes no sense to operate YVR-JFK (like CX does).

They were not drawing enough O&D to make the route stick around.

No alliance, inferior J class product compared to AC and CX, no lie-flat seats on certain frames, etc. They were probably losing tons of money on the route. It's no surprise it will be discontinued.



The daily PR 77W will sit on the ground in YVR from 1440 until 0045.


They are apparently interested in launching ORD and IAH, via YVR. Whether they would make money on these routes, now that's a different story entirely.

Johnny Aussie
Apr 9, 2018, 2:29 AM
They are interested in launching ORD and IAH, via YVR. Timings would work with a bit of tweaking. Whether they would make money on these routes, now that's a different story entirely.

They've definitely built in enough fat in the schedule to allow a new destination from YVR. IAH, ORD, LAS (again), SAN all being thrown around as possibilities.

IAH and ORD would be a tough turnaround with the current schedule even with just one hour turns at YVR X2 and ORD/IAH. LAS and SAN easy.

SpongeG
Apr 9, 2018, 6:45 AM
we need a cheat sheet so some of these posts make sense to those who don't understand airplane geek speak

what is CX and PR? or ORD or IAH etc.

osirisboy
Apr 9, 2018, 7:31 AM
we need a cheat sheet so some of these posts make sense to those who don't understand airplane geek speak

what is CX and PR? or ORD or IAH etc.

Oh god I know it's ridiculous! It makes no sense. Especially airport codes that don't at all resemble the city name. I don't know what the fascination is in memorizing airport codes. Maybe they're pretending they are pilots lol

Johnny Aussie
Apr 9, 2018, 9:03 AM
I always wondered where YYZ is?

Yayzoo City?

thenoflyzone
Apr 9, 2018, 11:59 AM
we need a cheat sheet so some of these posts make sense to those who don't understand airplane geek speak

what is CX and PR? or ORD or IAH etc.

"What" is easy. "Why" is another matter entirely.

CX is Cathay Pacific. They couldn't use CP as that belonged to Canadian Pacific Airlines back in 1942, 4 years before Cathay Pacific was founded.
PR is Philippine Airlines. They couldn't use PA as that belonged to Pan Am. PA now belongs to AirBlue, a Pakistani low cost carrier. AirBlue couldn't use AB as that belonged to the now defunct Air Berlin.
ORD is the code for Chicago O'Hare, because it was originally known as "ORcharD field".
IAH is pretty obvious. "International Airport Houston".

I always wondered where YYZ is?

Yayzoo City?

Since Toronto has more than 1 airport, they had to be creative for the code assignement. They couldn't have just used YTO for Pearson, as that code is an area designation for all of Toronto.

As far as Toronto is concerned, YTZ is probably the only one that makes some sense. YKZ and YYZ, not so much.

YVR also makes sense. "Yes Very Rainy"...;)

thenoflyzone
Apr 9, 2018, 12:00 PM
Oh god I know it's ridiculous! It makes no sense. Especially airport codes that don't at all resemble the city name. I don't know what the fascination is in memorizing airport codes. Maybe they're pretending they are pilots lol

It's no fascination. Some of us are payed to know these airport codes ;)

Once you know it, it's easier to just write the code instead of the full name, especially on aviation forums and such, where a good chunk of others know it as well.

If you dont know, a simple internet search will give you the answer. After a few months, if aviation truly interests you, you will start to memorize automatically some of these codes, especially places like ORD, or major airlines such as BA, AF, KL or CX.

SFUVancouver
Apr 9, 2018, 4:02 PM
we need a cheat sheet so some of these posts make sense to those who don't understand airplane geek speak

what is CX and PR? or ORD or IAH etc.

Rule of thumb, a two letter/letter and number code is an airline's International Air Transport Association (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Air_Transport_Association) (IATA) code.

Air Canada IATA code = AC
Cathay Pacific IATA code = CX
JetBlue IATA code = B6

This is usually used at the start of an airline's flight number (AC074, CX888, etc.) and it is why a flight that "codeshares" with other airlines can have multiple flight numbers for the same physical airline.

To complicate things further, if it's a three letter code it may be either an airline's International Civil Aviation Organization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Civil_Aviation_Organization) (ICAO) code or and an airport's IATA code.

Air Canada ICAO code = ACA
Cathay Pacific ICAO code = CPA
JetBlue ICAO code = JBU

Vancouver Int'l Airport IATA code = YVR

A four letter code is an airport's ICAO code.

Vancouver Int'l Airport ICAO code = CYVR

Wikipedia list of airline codes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airline_codes)
Wikipedia list of airport codes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airports_by_IATA_code:_A)

mezzanine
Apr 9, 2018, 4:30 PM
we need a cheat sheet so some of these posts make sense to those who don't understand airplane geek speak

what is CX and PR? or ORD or IAH etc.

And remember, whatever you do, don't use a "u" in qantas....;)

SpongeG
Apr 9, 2018, 5:29 PM
Thx SFUVancouver

Was at the airport last night, outside the international departures area, towards the domestic side they have some construction work going on with tarps and stuff set up, anyone know what they are doing?

twoNeurons
Apr 9, 2018, 11:33 PM
we need a cheat sheet so some of these posts make sense to those who don't understand airplane geek speak

what is CX and PR? or ORD or IAH etc.
One of the reasons people use airport codes is that it reduces ambiguity when talking about airports.

Toronto's a good example. Airlines like Flair advertise Vancouver - Toronto flights but in reality, they're YXX ( Abbotsford ) to YHM ( Hamilton ).

Allegiant markets their flights ( even on their website ) as Vancouver/Bellingham to Las Vegas... BLI-LAS is more clear.

If I'm flying to Tokyo, Vancouver-Tokyo could be either NRT or HND.

NRT was originally called New Tokyo International Airport (now called Tokyo Narita Airport )
HND is called Tokyo International Airport.

Most people just call them Haneda and Narita.

NRT is served by AC (Air Canada) and JL ( JAL ) from YVR (Vancouver)
HND is served by NH (All Nippon Airlines) from YVR.

I know the airport codes are confusing at times, but many large cities have multiple airports with similar names ( due to marketing most of the time ) and airport codes generally don't change, while airport names DO.

Interestingly, none of the main airports serving New York(JFK,EWR,LGA) contain "New York" in their names (JFK used to be called New York International Airport, though)

London has LCY, LHR, LGW, LTN, STN... or London City, Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton, Stansted ( ordered by distance from London )... but LHR, LGW, STN, LTN, LCY when ordered by passenger volume. The closest airport is often not the biggest.

nname
Apr 10, 2018, 1:02 AM
Toronto's a good example. Airlines like Flair advertise Vancouver - Toronto flights but in reality, they're YXX ( Abbotsford ) to YHM ( Hamilton ).

Well, they actually fly from YVR and to YYZ. It's just there's an intermediate stop YEG.

Speaking of which, when did Flair increase YVR-YEG service to 9x weekly? I remember it used to be 5x weekly....

Johnny Aussie
Apr 10, 2018, 5:59 AM
CA changing the night flight (CA997/998) from a 77W to a 333 from 1 July to 9 Sep.

However total service goes to 14 weekly on the YVR-PEK route for the period 7 August to 4 Sept when CA997/998 goes daily. Now we know where the CA cargo allotments from YEG went. Even if only for 4 weeks, this would not have been allowed under the current cap. So a daily 77W and a daily 333. The article says this is identical to August 2017 but I disagree. Summer 2017 was only 10 weekly. It was 14 weekly summer 2016.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/278036/air-china-3q18-long-haul-aircraft-changes/

Legend:

CA - Air China
PEK - Beijing Capital Airport
YVR - Vancouver Internationall Airport
YEG - Edmonton International Airport
77W - Boeing 777-300ER
333 - Airbus Industries A330-300

twoNeurons
Apr 10, 2018, 7:31 AM
CA changing the night flight (CA997/998) from a 77W to a 333 from 1 July to 9 Sep.

However total service goes to 14 weekly on the YVR-PEK route for the period 7 August to 4 Sept when CA997/998 goes daily. Now we know where the CA cargo allotments from YEG went. Even if only for 4 weeks, this would not have been allowed under the current cap. So a daily 77W and a daily 333. The article says this is identical to August 2017 but I disagree. Summer 2017 was only 10 weekly. It was 14 weekly summer 2016.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/278036/air-china-3q18-long-haul-aircraft-changes/

Legend:

CA - Air China
PEK - Beijing Capital Airport
YVR - Vancouver Internationall Airport
YEG - Edmonton International Airport
77W - Boeing 777-300ER
333 - Airbus Industries A330-300

While we're at it:
788 - Boeing 787-8
789 - Boeing 787-9 (usually more cramped as they're pretty much all 9 across in Y)
etc.

Airline cabins (not necessarily your actual ticket class... but when referenced in the forums):
Y – Economy
W – Premium economy
J – Business
F – First

Some of the harder to guess airport codes:
ORD - Chicago
IAD - Washington DC
EWR - Newark, NJ ( New York )
IAH - Houston
PVG - Shanghai
CAN - Guangzhou
CDG - Paris
BOM - Mumbai
ICN - Seoul

SpongeG
Apr 10, 2018, 10:39 AM
Landing at YVR on sunday eve

57oN2xFRtdA

Johnny Aussie
Apr 10, 2018, 8:23 PM
Westjet is bringing back seasonal YVR - YXU (London, Ontario) for the peak summer. 3 weekly eastbound and 4 weekly westbound.
Flights will operate from 29 June to 7 Sept.

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1333

thenoflyzone
Apr 11, 2018, 12:03 AM
CA changing the night flight (CA997/998) from a 77W to a 333 from 1 July to 9 Sep.

However total service goes to 14 weekly on the YVR-PEK route for the period 7 August to 4 Sept when CA997/998 goes daily. Now we know where the CA cargo allotments from YEG went. Even if only for 4 weeks, this would not have been allowed under the current cap. So a daily 77W and a daily 333.

CA hasn't operated cargo flights to YEG for over a year now. Plus those flights were only 2x weekly. In that time frame, PEK-YUL went from 4x weekly to 6x weekly.

This is most likely additional frequency that was granted to CA on temporary basis, which is allowed as per the bilateral. Canada would not object, as this would benefit AC as much as CA, considering the JV is supposed to be wrapped up soon.

Capacity to be provided on the agreed services in excess of the entitlements set out in this Agreement may from time to time be agreed between both Contracting Parties or their aeronautical authorities, subject to the approval (expressly or tacitly) of the aeronautical authorities of both Contracting Parties.

http://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text-texte.aspx?id=105042

nname
Apr 11, 2018, 12:10 AM
3 weekly eastbound and 4 weekly westbound.

How? I guess WestJet will teleport their plane to YXU weekly for the extra westbound service?

Well, in the paragraph above it says 3x weekly... I guess they haven't noticed the error yet :rolleyes:

nname
Apr 11, 2018, 7:04 AM
Seems like YVR-DEL will be 6x weekly through the entire winter season 2018-19. It will run on x7.

Johnny Aussie
Apr 11, 2018, 7:41 AM
CA hasn't operated cargo flights to YEG for over a year now. Plus those flights were only 2x weekly. In that time frame, PEK-YUL went from 4x weekly to 6x weekly.

This is most likely additional frequency that was granted to CA on temporary basis, which is allowed as per the bilateral. Canada would not object, as this would benefit AC as much as CA, considering the JV is supposed to be wrapped up soon.

They were probably "keeping" the cargo frequencies for future use but maybe they've abandoned that route permanently. During the periods when YVR is less than 14 weekly, the allotment cap is not an issue. The CA allotment is 19 per week max. So during the period when YVR is 14 weekly combined with the 6 weekly YUL flights, this exceeds the allotment by 1. Usually when permission is required Transport Canada issues an order/decision publicly stating that 1) Air China has requested the additional short term capacity, 2) Air Canada has agreed to this increase and 3) Transport Canada issues the license for the temporary capacity increase. So going forward the CA allotment cap won't be an issue as long as total weekly frequencies don't exceed 19.

Seems like YVR-DEL will be 6x weekly through the entire winter season 2018-19. It will run on x7.

That's pretty amazing... assuming this route is exceeding expectations.

LeftCoaster
Apr 11, 2018, 10:03 PM
we need a cheat sheet so some of these posts make sense to those who don't understand airplane geek speak


It actually comes pretty quick. I only really got interested in this stuff a few years ago (because of this very thread) and in a couple years of casually reading the thread I can understand most of the codes (though I always have to think of CZ vs CX)

CA changing the night flight (CA997/998) from a 77W to a 333 from 1 July to 9 Sep.

However total service goes to 14 weekly on the YVR-PEK route for the period 7 August to 4 Sept when CA997/998 goes daily. Now we know where the CA cargo allotments from YEG went. Even if only for 4 weeks, this would not have been allowed under the current cap. So a daily 77W and a daily 333. The article says this is identical to August 2017 but I disagree. Summer 2017 was only 10 weekly. It was 14 weekly summer 2016.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/278036/air-china-3q18-long-haul-aircraft-changes/

This is actually a huge capacity boost! As far as I can tell peak week to peak week it is a 40% increase over CA's 2017 summer service.

Seems like YVR-DEL will be 6x weekly through the entire winter season 2018-19. It will run on x7.

Great news. From what I remember last winter it was 7xPW for a week or two but 3xPW to 5xPW other than that so 6xPW all winter is another continued improvement.


Also, anyone else agitated by how slow YVR is getting out their monthly stats in 2018? They used to have them out 3 or 4 days into the month following, now it seems mid month.

Don't they know I have no patience?!?

osirisboy
Apr 11, 2018, 11:21 PM
email them to post it online. They always have them done on the 2nd of the month

SpongeG
Apr 12, 2018, 8:31 AM
a video about the upgraded lighting at YVR

7XeCR6RGOXw

Johnny Aussie
Apr 13, 2018, 11:23 AM
Looking at flairair.ca it looks like Flair is launching some new routes from YVR this summer:

YYC (nonstop)
YXS (nonstop)
YXE (direct)
YWG (nonstop)

These are in addition to existing routes to YEG (nonstop), YLW (nonstop) and YYZ (direct).

nname
Apr 13, 2018, 6:47 PM
Looking at flairair.ca it looks like Flair is launching some new routes from YVR this summer:

YYC (nonstop)
YXS (nonstop)
YXE (direct)
YWG (nonstop)

These are in addition to existing routes to YEG (nonstop), YLW (nonstop) and YYZ (direct).

Seems like they must be doing well?

July schedule:

6x weekly YLW (all non-stop)
9x weekly YYC (7x non-stop, 2x stop at YLW)
21x weekly YEG (19x non-stop, 2x stop at YXS)
2x weekly YXE (all stop at YXS+YEG) <- the 2-stop is not bookable though?
2x weekly YXS (all non-stop)
8x weekly YWG (2x non-stop, 6x stop at YYC)
8x weekly YYZ (all stop at YEG)

So in summer, there will be 36x weekly out of YVR, compared to 9x weekly last summer and 13x weekly this spring.

The routing should be:

4x YLW-YVR-YEG-YYZ
4x YVR-YEG-YYZ
2x YVR-YLW-YYC
6x YVR-YYC-YWG
2x YVR-YXS-YEG-YXE
1x YVR-YYC
2x YVR-YWG
11x YVR-YEG

LeftCoaster
Apr 13, 2018, 9:44 PM
Pretty strong growth. Still don't know if this thing will last but good to see they are flying out of YVR and not YXX.

If ULCC flying does eventually find a niche in Canada I wonder if YVR would ever look to create a dedicated ULCC terminal, perhaps over by the existing south terminal to allow for a lower cost terminal operation.

nname
Apr 13, 2018, 10:29 PM
Pretty strong growth. Still don't know if this thing will last but good to see they are flying out of YVR and not YXX.

If ULCC flying does eventually find a niche in Canada I wonder if YVR would ever look to create a dedicated ULCC terminal, perhaps over by the existing south terminal to allow for a lower cost terminal operation.

They still flying out of YXX though. In fact, they also increase the flying there by a little this summer. However, the majority of the increase seems to be at YEG, YVR, and YYZ.

In fact, YVR is now Flair's second biggest city behind YEG (104 weekly flights) and ahead of YYZ (28) and YXX (24).

Johnny Aussie
Apr 14, 2018, 12:13 AM
Not sure if the schedule is finalised though.

For example on Mondays Wednesdays and Fridays from YEG to YVR there are 3-4 nonstop flights... one departs at 10:30 and another at 11:10. On those days the 10:30 flight is showing as “Sold Out” each day.

nname
Apr 14, 2018, 12:21 AM
Hmm... it wasn't like that when I checked it last time...

Seems to me that.. basically they're blocking out the old routes:

4x YLW-YVR-YEG-YYZ
1x YVR-YEG

I guess they're not going to run 3x daily YEG-YYZ, YEG-YVR, and YEG-YXX after all:D

Johnny Aussie
Apr 14, 2018, 10:35 AM
Hmm... it wasn't like that when I checked it last time...

Seems to me that.. basically they're blocking out the old routes:

4x YLW-YVR-YEG-YYZ
1x YVR-YEG

I guess they're not going to run 3x daily YEG-YYZ, YEG-YVR, and YEG-YXX after all:D

Yeah... looks like their weekly frequencies by city are:

YEG 69, YVR 26, YWG 22, YYZ 21, YYC 15, YXX 14, YLW 11, YHM 8, YHZ 7, YYJ 7, YXE 4, YXS 4

So still very small operations at any of their stations.. even their largest operation at YEG is only 10 flights per day.

YYCguys
Apr 14, 2018, 3:01 PM
Surprised to see Flair Air using some of the Tier One airports (eg: yvr yyz etc) whereas I thought that lower cost airports like yhm and yxx would be used exclusively instead of in conjunction with yvr and yyz.

trofirhen
Apr 14, 2018, 6:06 PM
As an ULCC Flair charges such low fares, that I wonder ho<w they make a profit, or at least remain solvent. Are the considerably higher prices of other carriers necessary to pay all
the bills, and try to add to their profit? If Flair charges such low fares, does this represent something within the range" of normal, and are major carriers icing their cakes, or what?:???:

Johnny Aussie
Apr 14, 2018, 7:19 PM
Surprised to see Flair Air using some of the Tier One airports (eg: yvr yyz etc) whereas I thought that lower cost airports like yhm and yxx would be used exclusively instead of in conjunction with yvr and yyz.

In this latest schedule change they’ve actually reduced flying from both YXX and YHM and increased from YVR and YYZ. They’ve pretty much added back most of the cities they had dropped while under the NewLeaf banner. :shrug:

trofirhen
Apr 15, 2018, 12:33 AM
Pardon the break in the conversation arc, but with the possibility of YVR - GRU, due to visa free Brazilan travel or such, one often laments that YYZ is so much better placed,
and so much shorter. However, due to the curvature of the earth, in fact, the difference is less than one might think.

Haneda - YYZ - GRU is 50 miles; 77/km miles shorter than via YVR.
(YVR obiously 50 miles, 77km longer) Not a lot, but if I'm wrong please correct me.
Would an airline, any airline, possibly go for that? Is the difference still too large, or is it feasible? Any opinions welcome.;)

Cage
Apr 15, 2018, 12:53 AM
As an ULCC Flair charges such low fares, that I wonder ho<w they make a profit, or at least remain solvent. Are the considerably higher prices of other carriers necessary to pay all
the bills, and try to add to their profit? If Flair charges such low fares, does this represent something within the range" of normal, and are major carriers icing their cakes, or what?:???:

Flair and other ULCC charge for absolutely everything. Carryon is $30 or $90 at the gate, checked bag is $25 ahead of time or $80 at the airport, There is a fee if you have get a boarding card. Seat selection is always a charge, even during check in. The most restrictive fares have a a use it or lose it provisions (no changes, no refunds, no travel credit for not flying) unless you pay ahead for a travel insurance product.

I looked up travelling on July 4th in the morning. The difference between Flair and Air Canada was $30 once included all the upcharges on both airlines.

trofirhen
Apr 15, 2018, 1:25 AM
Flair and other ULCC charge for absolutely everything. Carryon is $30 or $90 at the gate, checked bag is $25 ahead of time or $80 at the airport, There is a fee if you have get a boarding card. Seat selection is always a charge, even during check in. The most restrictive fares have a a use it or lose it provisions (no changes, no refunds, no travel credit for not flying) unless you pay ahead for a travel insurance product.

I looked up travelling on July 4th in the morning. The difference between Flair and Air Canada was $30 once included all the upcharges on both airlines.

Ahaaa !! Thanks for the explanation. Sounds a little like some European "low-costs." Anyway, they sure seem to have you by the jugular.

Johnny Aussie
Apr 16, 2018, 11:19 AM
Flair has now updated their schedules as the old schedules that were showing as “sold out” have now been removed.

Even airlineroute.net got caught out and had included these in his tally.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/278137/flair-airlines-plans-domestic-canada-expansion-from-june-2018/

The expansions at the bottom, are therefore incorrect.

osirisboy
Apr 16, 2018, 4:08 PM
Flair? I think you mean F8

lubicon
Apr 16, 2018, 6:51 PM
Flair and other ULCC charge for absolutely everything. Carryon is $30 or $90 at the gate, checked bag is $25 ahead of time or $80 at the airport.

If this is accurate (I'm not questioning you Cage BTW) then its a reversal of what the other airlines are doing and carry on will actually cost more than checked bags. Great to see in my opinion as it may help cure the plague of carry on luggage and all the problems that comes with carry on that infects the other carriers.

Two thoughts come to mind:
1. they feel people prefer carry on to checking their bags so there is an opportunity to profit from this.
2. they are trying to discourage carry on as it slows boarding and disembarking times thus increasing turn around times for the aircraft.

SpongeG
Apr 16, 2018, 9:52 PM
I flew Allegient once out of Bellingham, we paid for early boarding, I think carry on was free, anyway by the time the people who didn't pay for early boarding there was almost no overhead bin available, people had to get some of their bags stuffed into that little closet they have on the plane or put the bags at the opposite end of the plane.

And I fly AC mostly and you always see people trying to stuff their huge carryons into the small bins, often they will make an announcement that the flight is full and they will put your carry on in the cargo which many people take advantage of which is nice.

CareerShow
Apr 17, 2018, 9:20 PM
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-air-canada-to-offer-lie-flat-seats-on-some-north-american-routes/

I do enjoy news articles regarding aviation in general, the level of ignorance is always fairly substantial. Little do most people know, there has been daily lie flat flights from YYZ to SFO and LAX for years, and between 5-10 widebody flights a day between YVR and YYZ for years.

twoNeurons
Apr 17, 2018, 10:27 PM
If this is accurate (I'm not questioning you Cage BTW) then its a reversal of what the other airlines are doing and carry on will actually cost more than checked bags. Great to see in my opinion as it may help cure the plague of carry on luggage and all the problems that comes with carry on that infects the other carriers.

Two thoughts come to mind:
1. they feel people prefer carry on to checking their bags so there is an opportunity to profit from this.
2. they are trying to discourage carry on as it slows boarding and disembarking times thus increasing turn around times for the aircraft.

It's mostly the 2nd reason. ULCCs run on razor-thin margins and rely on quick turn-around times. One of the way they do this is ensuring people board quickly and efficiently. They make money if they're in the air. Same principle of cruise ships. Also, ensuring people board early means they're a captive audience for longer. As you need to check in early for a flight ( or pay a fee ) you're faced with buying expensive airport food ( in most airports, though YVR is an exception ) or buying reasonably priced (but marked up) food while you're on the plane.

Every hour on the ground is also another hour they're paying airports/staff/crew.

Lancaster
Apr 18, 2018, 4:39 AM
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-air-canada-to-offer-lie-flat-seats-on-some-north-american-routes/

I do enjoy news articles regarding aviation in general, the level of ignorance is always fairly substantial. Little do most people know, there has been daily lie flat flights from YYZ to SFO and LAX for years, and between 5-10 widebody flights a day between YVR and YYZ for years.

Reading the press release (https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2018-04-17-Air-Canada-Elevates-Premium-Travel-Experience-for-International-and-North-American-Customers) it looks like this is more to do with offering an "overnight" premium service.

I openly wonder if AC will ever entertain putting lie-flat seats on narrow body aircraft. Something like B6 (JetBlue) has with Mint.

Acey
Apr 18, 2018, 4:54 AM
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-air-canada-to-offer-lie-flat-seats-on-some-north-american-routes/

I do enjoy news articles regarding aviation in general, the level of ignorance is always fairly substantial. Little do most people know, there has been daily lie flat flights from YYZ to SFO and LAX for years, and between 5-10 widebody flights a day between YVR and YYZ for years.

"The airline has offered such seats before on Los Angeles and San Francisco flights, but not consistently" seems to sufficiently address your concern.

casper
Apr 18, 2018, 6:14 AM
If this is accurate (I'm not questioning you Cage BTW) then its a reversal of what the other airlines are doing and carry on will actually cost more than checked bags. Great to see in my opinion as it may help cure the plague of carry on luggage and all the problems that comes with carry on that infects the other carriers.

Two thoughts come to mind:
1. they feel people prefer carry on to checking their bags so there is an opportunity to profit from this.
2. they are trying to discourage carry on as it slows boarding and disembarking times thus increasing turn around times for the aircraft.

The other factor is they are using older aircraft that were built before the modern generation of carry on suitcases were invented. They simply do not have the space.

AC and WS are getting newer aircraft that support for in cabin baggage.

CareerShow
Apr 18, 2018, 7:17 AM
"The airline has offered such seats before on Los Angeles and San Francisco flights, but not consistently" seems to sufficiently address your concern.

Was more with regard to the YYZ flights.......but yes, this article was actually decently well informed.

zahav
Apr 18, 2018, 11:14 PM
I messaged YVR today (as I did last month), and they messaged me back and just posted the February stats after I asked :p Definitely worth the wait, amazing results, better than expected I think!

Overall up 11%. Domestic up 6.9%, Transborder up 11%, Asia Pacific up 18.6%, Europe up 4.6% (oddly, scheduled up 11.3% and charter down to 0, must be the way they used to record Transat!), and Misc. up 30.1%. Overall international up 14.8% incl. transborder, and up 18.6% international only. Highest overall traffic growth of the Canadian airports reporting February so far, in all categories nonetheless! That expansion can't come soon enough! With the healthy domestic growth, and Flair expanding a lot this summer, they should consider the old B pier upgrade. WS uses all of the new AB gates from the last expansion, and they still spillover into the old section (the new hourly YYC flights won't help this situation). YVR should be planning on that reno in tandem with international expansion, the old B pier is the last part of the airport that is still original, and is pretty awful. For the few odd jet flights that used it (and of course good old CMA) it was OK, but i feel like it will be used more and more now with Flair.

Even the 'recently' (2009) expanded C Pier is probably reaching capacity soon. AC runs 777 and 787s on some of those Toronto legs, and the holdrooms are packed!

PS, I wonder when noflyzone will chime in and downplay the traffic results and make excuses as to why the numbers are artificially high :)

http://www.yvr.ca/en/about-yvr/facts-and-stats

nname
Apr 19, 2018, 12:02 AM
YVR should be planning on that reno in tandem with international expansion, the old B pier is the last part of the airport that is still original, and is pretty awful. For the few odd jet flights that used it (and of course good old CMA) it was OK, but i feel like it will be used more and more now with Flair.

I think B27 now is almost exclusively used by Flair except one early morning WS flight at 6am.

The new schedule is also structured in such way that the airline will only need 1 gate at the airport at any time, but they will need the gate for the entire day except for the 6am departure slot (since no RON at YVR - they all have to come from either YEG or YYC via YLW in the morning and return at night)

I guess they will also avoid filling fuel at YVR as it is cheaper to do so in AB? :D


A couple of days ago when I was bored I was trying to figure out their plane rotation:

Daily YYZ-YEG-YVR-YEG-YYZ
Daily YEG-YYZ-YHZ-YYZ-YEG
Daily YHM-YWG-YEG-YYJ-YEG-YWG-YHM
Daily YEG-YXX-YEG-YLW-YEG-YXX-YEG
x6 YEG-YVR-YYC-YWG-YYC-YVR-YEG
1 YEG-YVR-YWG-YVR-YYC
37 YYC-YLW-YVR-YXS-YEG-YXE-YEG
46 YEG-YXE-YEG-YXS-YVR-YLW-YYC
5 YYC-YVR-YWG-YVR-YEG

thenoflyzone
Apr 19, 2018, 12:08 AM
PS, I wonder when noflyzone will chime in and downplay the traffic results and make excuses as to why the numbers are artificially high :)

http://www.yvr.ca/en/about-yvr/facts-and-stats

My official response will be issued tomorrow at 9 am EST. ;)

Johnny Aussie
Apr 19, 2018, 7:44 AM
Looking at YVR's Feb figures... definitely boosted by Chinese New Year but definitely higher across the board than I expected too.

Domestic was up 55,900
Ttl Int'l was up 124,800
Overall was up 180,700

Those are some impressive gains!

thenoflyzone
Apr 19, 2018, 1:59 PM
PS, I wonder when noflyzone will chime in and downplay the traffic results and make excuses as to why the numbers are artificially high :)


News Releases

MONTREAL, April 19, 2018 /Thenoflyzone Inc.

Meh....

Source: Thenoflyzone

Certain information set forth in this presentation contains “forward-looking information”, including “future oriented financial information” and “financial outlook”, under applicable securities laws (collectively referred to herein as forward-looking statements). Except for statements of historical fact, information contained herein constitutes forward-looking statements and includes, but is not limited to, the (i) projected financial performance of the Company; (ii) completion of, and the use of proceeds from, the sale of the shares being offered hereunder; (iii) the expected development of the Company’s business, projects and joint ventures; (iv) execution of the Company’s vision and growth strategy, including with respect to future M&A activity and global growth; (v) sources and availability of third-party financing for the Company’s projects; (vi) completion of the Company’s projects that are currently underway, in development or otherwise under consideration; (vi) renewal of the Company’s current customer, supplier and other material agreements; and (vii) future liquidity, working capital, and capital requirements. Forward-looking statements are provided to allow potential investors the opportunity to understand management’s beliefs and opinions in respect of the future so that they may use such beliefs and opinions as one factor in evaluating an investment.

These statements are not guarantees of future performance and undue reliance should not be placed on them. Such forward-looking statements necessarily involve known and unknown risks and uncertainties, which may cause actual performance and financial results in future periods to differ materially from any projections of future performance or result expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements.

Although forward-looking statements contained in this presentation are based upon what management of the Company believes are reasonable assumptions, there can be no assurance that forward-looking statements will prove to be accurate, as actual results and future events could differ materially from those anticipated in such statements. The Company undertakes no obligation to update forward-looking statements if circumstances or management’s estimates or opinions should change except as required by applicable securities laws. The reader is cautioned not to place undue reliance on forward-looking statements.

zahav
Apr 19, 2018, 5:33 PM
:)

casper
Apr 19, 2018, 8:31 PM
News Releases

MONTREAL, April 19, 2018 /Thenoflyzone Inc.

Meh....

Source: Thenoflyzone

Certain information set forth in this presentation contains “forward-looking information”, including “future oriented financial information” and “financial outlook”, under applicable securities laws (collectively referred to herein as forward-looking statements). Except for statements of historical fact, information contained herein constitutes forward-looking statements and includes, but is not limited to, the (i) projected financial performance of the Company; (ii) completion of, and the use of proceeds from, the sale of the shares being offered hereunder; (iii) the expected development of the Company’s business, projects and joint ventures; (iv) execution of the Company’s vision and growth strategy, including with respect to future M&A activity and global growth; (v) sources and availability of third-party financing for the Company’s projects; (vi) completion of the Company’s projects that are currently underway, in development or otherwise under consideration; (vi) renewal of the Company’s current customer, supplier and other material agreements; and (vii) future liquidity, working capital, and capital requirements. Forward-looking statements are provided to allow potential investors the opportunity to understand management’s beliefs and opinions in respect of the future so that they may use such beliefs and opinions as one factor in evaluating an investment.

These statements are not guarantees of future performance and undue reliance should not be placed on them. Such forward-looking statements necessarily involve known and unknown risks and uncertainties, which may cause actual performance and financial results in future periods to differ materially from any projections of future performance or result expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements.

Although forward-looking statements contained in this presentation are based upon what management of the Company believes are reasonable assumptions, there can be no assurance that forward-looking statements will prove to be accurate, as actual results and future events could differ materially from those anticipated in such statements. The Company undertakes no obligation to update forward-looking statements if circumstances or management’s estimates or opinions should change except as required by applicable securities laws. The reader is cautioned not to place undue reliance on forward-looking statements.

Based on recent reaction from the Montreal investment comunity it is safe to say that the expected growth in Vancouver will not have a Material impact on Montreal airports. Slight increase in transfer passangers from Montreal is expected.

SpongeG
Apr 19, 2018, 10:13 PM
does WS = westjet? what is the S for?

teriyaki
Apr 19, 2018, 10:41 PM
does WS = westjet? what is the S for?

Don't think it necessarily stands for anything. They likely wanted WJ, but was probably already taken at the time of applying for it.

Airline codes don't necessarily match with their names.

Example, both Canadian Airlines (Formerly Canadian Pacific) and Cathay Pacific Airlines have the abbreviation CP. CP went to Canadian Airlines and Cathay uses CX. Plenty of other odd ones out there.

casper
Apr 20, 2018, 6:33 AM
does WS = westjet? what is the S for?

It is a bit of a first come first serve thing. The IATA (basically the UN) in Montreal hands out these codes to airlines and makes certain they are unique since they show up in airline tickets and other place. Similar to domain names.

Air Labrador has WJ. They were founded in the 1940s so they beat out WestJet.

LeftCoaster
Apr 20, 2018, 6:58 PM
Thanks for emailing Zahav. I really wish they would just post the data and not make us ask, but this month was worth waiting for!

Here it is in the traditional format that I think Johnny crafted:

Domestic up 6.9%
International up 14.8%

---------

Total pax count up 11.0% and over 180,724 compared to February 2017.

---------

Int'l breakdown by sector:

Transborder up 11.0%
Asia Pacific up 18.6%
Europe up 4.6%
Misc Int'l up 30.1%

This growth just continues to defy expectations.

18.6% growth in Asia pacific is astounding, since it's already YVR's largest intl subset. Just to put it into perspective:

Raw asiapac growth was 51,324... That's the equivalent of 124 completely full new 747s in one month!

I doubt numbers like this will continue through the year, especially considering the FEb Chinese New Year effect, but the first two months of traffic at YVR already have the total growth near 10% which would propel the airport straight through the milestone of 25 million and into 26.5 million. :runaway:

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2018/02-february/traffic-update-february-2018.pdf?la=en

SpongeG
Apr 20, 2018, 9:57 PM
thanks for the info.

The westjet smaller regional flights still use a tent basically for walking to the terminal. Is that going to be upgraded during this next phase of the expansion or is that still a long way off?

connect2source
Apr 21, 2018, 8:15 PM
Air Canada is rebranding International Business Class as Signature Service. All but North American Business Class will be rebranded, every aircraft, 787's 777's A330's and 767's with pods or classic pods will be Signature Service, they've added concierge and BMW valet service as well.

I like a stand-alone brand over simply Business Class, much stronger IMO.

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/cabin-features/signature-service.html?icid=ac|achome|signature|caen|180417|bnr

casper
Apr 21, 2018, 9:21 PM
Air Canada is rebranding International Business Class as Signature Service. All but North American Business Class will be rebranded, every aircraft, 787's 777's A330's and 767's with pods or classic pods will be Signature Service, they've added concierge and BMW valet service as well.

I like a stand-alone brand over simply Business Class, much stronger IMO.

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/cabin-features/signature-service.html?icid=ac|achome|signature|caen|180417|bnr

What is interesting is yyz has a special dedicated signiture lounge with table service. Very up scale and complimentary to the Maple leaf lounge. Wondering if and when we see something similar in Vancouver.

deasine
Apr 22, 2018, 12:29 AM
Air Canada is rebranding International Business Class as Signature Service. All but North American Business Class will be rebranded, every aircraft, 787's 777's A330's and 767's with pods or classic pods will be Signature Service, they've added concierge and BMW valet service as well.

I like a stand-alone brand over simply Business Class, much stronger IMO.

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/onboard/cabin-features/signature-service.html?icid=ac|achome|signature|caen|180417|bnr

I think Air Canada is simply reacting to the trends of the industry. It's more common now especially amongst North American Airlines to brand cabins (e.g. Delta One, United Polaris, Virgin Upper Class, British Airways ClubWorld/ClubEurope).

Personally, I think airlines need to be quite careful with this: it can add distinguishing amongst your competitors, but it can also create confusion. BA's Club World is an example (for those of you who aren't aware, it's BA's Business Class for international flights) whereas Virgin Upper Class is a bit clearer.

I think Air Canada's attempt is unusual. Without reading the information, as a consumer, I wouldn't know if they are using this as an adjective or a service, and if it is a service, then how does this distinguish between Concierge and Signature. AC isn't being consistent either as Business Class and Signature Class is often used interchangeably (try booking a ticket). I think there's a bit of work needed to make this a real value add to the industry.

YYCguys
Apr 22, 2018, 12:18 PM
thanks for the info.

The westjet smaller regional flights still use a tent basically for walking to the terminal. Is that going to be upgraded during this next phase of the expansion or is that still a long way off?

That is a pretty pathetic set up, isn’t it? I, too, hope for an upgrade to that part of the terminal. I like YEG’s set up for AC Express and Westjet Encore. It’s a permanent structure and is definitely nicer than YYC’s or YVR’s set up.

s211
Apr 22, 2018, 4:27 PM
I think Air Canada is simply reacting to the trends of the industry. It's more common now especially amongst North American Airlines to brand cabins (e.g. Delta One, United Polaris, Virgin Upper Class, British Airways ClubWorld/ClubEurope).

Personally, I think airlines need to be quite careful with this: it can add distinguishing amongst your competitors, but it can also create confusion. BA's Club World is an example (for those of you who aren't aware, it's BA's Business Class for international flights) whereas Virgin Upper Class is a bit clearer.

I think Air Canada's attempt is unusual. Without reading the information, as a consumer, I wouldn't know if they are using this as an adjective or a service, and if it is a service, then how does this distinguish between Concierge and Signature. AC isn't being consistent either as Business Class and Signature Class is often used interchangeably (try booking a ticket). I think there's a bit of work needed to make this a real value add to the industry.

Count me in with the confused. Did 789 business class a few months ago to Newark. Simple, easy to comprehend. Now I can't tell if there's more than one version of business class.

casper
Apr 22, 2018, 7:47 PM
Count me in with the confused. Did 789 business class a few months ago to Newark. Simple, easy to comprehend. Now I can't tell if there's more than one version of business class.

There is.

The 789, A330, 767 (non-rouge), 788 and 777 all have seats that open out into a bed. In the old day this was called "Executive First" by AC.

All the narrow body aircraft and Rouge 767 have a recliner seat that is wider, more comfortable and has more leg room than economy but it is not a pod that becomes a bed. In the old days that was called "Executive" class by AC.

twoNeurons
Apr 24, 2018, 4:50 PM
does WS = westjet? what is the S for?

WeStjet.

Actually, the IATA code WS is not unique to WestJet, so it also has the unique three-letter abbrevation WJA ( means WestJet Airlines ). It shares WS with:

+------+------------------------+---------------+---------------+
| ICAO | Airline | Callsign | Country |
+------+------------------------+---------------+---------------+
| WJA | WestJet | WESTJET | Canada |
| WAA | Westair Aviation | WESTAIR WINGS | Namibia |
| WSC | Westair Cargo Airlines | WESTCAR | Côte d'Ivoire |
| PCM | Westair Industries | PAC VALLEY | United States |
| BLK | Westcoast Energy | BLUE FLAME | Canada |
+------+------------------------+---------------+---------------+

Air Canada is ACA (IATA = AC)
Cathay Pacific is CPA (IATA = CX)
Singapore Airlines is SIA (IATA = SQ)

There's more choice with the newer three letter ICAO codes and every one is unique. Including numerals, it allows for about 44,000 unique airlines as some letters and combinations are reserved for specific uses.

Johnny Aussie
Apr 24, 2018, 11:33 PM
http://www.yvr.ca/en/passengers/construction

http://www.yvr.ca/en/blog/2018/change-is-in-the-air-at-yvr-may-construction-update

Good to see YVR doing something about the nation leading growth and preparing for the future.... here in MEL we are also seeing record growth (international grew 12% in Feb and 16.5% in March) but all they do is talk about planned expansions versus actually doing anything.

Kudos to YVR.

LeftCoaster
Apr 24, 2018, 11:46 PM
Good they are building, but I still can't comprehend for the life of me why they are building the international pier expansion in 2 phases given the intl' growth we are seeing.

Seems like they will be maxed out the second the expansion is complete and they will miss out on a multitude of savings by doing the project all at once.

Johnny Aussie
Apr 24, 2018, 11:59 PM
Good they are building, but I still can't comprehend for the life of me why they are building the international pier expansion in 2 phases given the intl' growth we are seeing.

Seems like they will be maxed out the second the expansion is complete and they will miss out on a multitude of savings by doing the project all at once.

I watched Craig’s board of trade speech and they were quite clear that using buses is going to be a norm as it is becoming increasingly like that at airports around the world.

So that’s the reason they’re not spending more on that part of the terminal expansion.

nname
Apr 25, 2018, 12:15 AM
I watched Craig’s board of trade speech and they were quite clear that using buses is going to be a norm as it is becoming increasingly like that at airports around the world.

So that’s the reason they’re not spending more on that part of the terminal expansion.

I don't even think they will need as much bus operation this year compared to last year, due to the new temporary gate D62, the reduced gate use for PR due to the removal of MNL-YVR-YYZ service, as well as moving service like AMS into late afternoon.

Even less for next year (so far), as MNL-YVR-JFK will be cancelled and all MNL service will be at night time.

LeftCoaster
Apr 25, 2018, 12:26 AM
Well Philippines do have their unused 5th freedom flight allowances so I'd imagine those cancelled JFK frequencies are going to go into a new flight, so probably net neutral for next year. Not to mention that there will likely be new routes announced for next year (fingers crossed!).

zahav
Apr 25, 2018, 7:48 AM
I noticed China Southern has switched aircraft again for the summer. Was 777, 787, and now A330. Checking Wikpiedia, their A330 fleet has a zillion configurations and capacities. It will not have first class, so that means it will have between 258-286 passengers. It also doesn't say whether it's 330-200 or -300 lol, so I'm not sure! Anyone know a way to find out?

Regardless which configuration, it is a capacity increase over the 788!

Cage
Apr 26, 2018, 4:21 PM
I think Air Canada's attempt is unusual. Without reading the information, as a consumer, I wouldn't know if they are using this as an adjective or a service, and if it is a service, then how does this distinguish between Concierge and Signature. AC isn't being consistent either as Business Class and Signature Class is often used interchangeably (try booking a ticket). I think there's a bit of work needed to make this a real value add to the industry.

Signature is the premium brand name for Air Canada:
- Signature Service is all the ground based stuff: exclusive checkin, concierge personnel, fancy car for tight connections,
- Signature Class is the onboard product and services available on wide body aircraft. This includes the seat, the meal, etc.
- Signature Lounge is a combination link between the aircraft and the ground services. Pax get a made to order meal and much wider selection of beverages than what can be loaded onto the airplane. Once airborne, the pax get as much sleep as possible by skipping the onboard meal service. The pax can get a light breakfast close to arrival or they can get a meal in the arrival lounge if flying into LHR.

Tip of the hat to AC team coordinating the rebrand to Signature. They did all the tough work under the old brand of International Business Class. This in contrast to UA who released Polaris far too soon before the kinks were worked out.

The YVR connection to this thread. Full rollout of the Signature brand (e.g. lounge, car ride, all the bells and whistles) works very well on the TransPac services and lengthy TransAt flights.

deasine
Apr 26, 2018, 6:13 PM
Signature is the premium brand name for Air Canada:
- Signature Service is all the ground based stuff: exclusive checkin, concierge personnel, fancy car for tight connections,
- Signature Class is the onboard product and services available on wide body aircraft. This includes the seat, the meal, etc.
- Signature Lounge is a combination link between the aircraft and the ground services. Pax get a made to order meal and much wider selection of beverages than what can be loaded onto the airplane. Once airborne, the pax get as much sleep as possible by skipping the onboard meal service. The pax can get a light breakfast close to arrival or they can get a meal in the arrival lounge if flying into LHR.

Tip of the hat to AC team coordinating the rebrand to Signature. They did all the tough work under the old brand of International Business Class. This in contrast to UA who released Polaris far too soon before the kinks were worked out

Technically the Signature Service refers to the entire end-to-end experience and not just for ground services (according to the website). And there's still quite a bit of the website that doesn't necessarily refer to the Signature Class Cabin but simply Business Class.

Again I don't have an issue with branding, but it needs to be done carefully and consistently. I'd also argue the name itself should immediately give away what it is and I'm not sure just "Signature" would be immediately apparent to the general consumer.

Way better than "Delta One" or "United Polaris" - I'm not sure why anyone would sign those names off in the first place.

The YVR connection to this thread. Full rollout of the Signature brand (e.g. lounge, car ride, all the bells and whistles) works very well on the TransPac services and lengthy TransAt flights.

Unless it's under way right now, which may be the case, there is no Signature Suite at YVR. Only in YYZ, which really should be the launch given the evening/night TATL flights to Europe to maximize sleep.

BA excelled at this in JFK with their supper service so that customers can maximize their sleep when they land in the morning in LHR in time for work.

CloudInspector
Apr 27, 2018, 2:05 PM
Icelandair is boosting YVR to 4 weekly next winter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/airlineroute/status/989863264476696578?s=12

LeftCoaster
Apr 27, 2018, 8:51 PM
Great news, went from 0 service last winter, to 2x per week this winter to 4x per week next winter.

Would love to see Iceland air daily at some point, I'm sure the demand is there if they had the additional frames.

LeftCoaster
Apr 27, 2018, 9:05 PM
I noticed China Southern has switched aircraft again for the summer. Was 777, 787, and now A330. Checking Wikpiedia, their A330 fleet has a zillion configurations and capacities. It will not have first class, so that means it will have between 258-286 passengers. It also doesn't say whether it's 330-200 or -300 lol, so I'm not sure! Anyone know a way to find out?

Regardless which configuration, it is a capacity increase over the 788!

I think that's just a result of their system not having their new plane (the 787-9) uploaded into it. They announced the 789 as running the route now and if you check their website there is still no info on it so they're likely using an A330 as a proxy until they've updated the website.

Johnny Aussie
Apr 27, 2018, 11:12 PM
Icelandair is boosting YVR to 4 weekly next winter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/airlineroute/status/989863264476696578?s=12

Yeah that’s a really positive sign. Knowing how seasonal YVR is to Europe FI is obviously happy enough with the route to double the capacity during the winter.

YVR-Europe will be up to 32 flights a week next winter to LHR, FRA, AMS, CDG and KEF. Still a huge reduction from summer flying but a step in the right direction.

teriyaki
Apr 28, 2018, 5:05 AM
Yeah that’s a really positive sign. Knowing how seasonal YVR is to Europe FI is obviously happy enough with the route to double the capacity during the winter.

YVR-Europe will be up to 32 flights a week next winter to LHR, FRA, AMS, CDG and KEF. Still a huge reduction from summer flying but a step in the right direction.

FI has a decent O&D likely during the winter months as its actually a great time to visit Iceland. Versus more typical European destinations that are miles better in the spring/summer vs winter. Good for them for bumping up the capacity, just wish the timing of the flights were better.

SpongeG
Apr 30, 2018, 8:16 AM
April 29, not sure what they are doing been this way a couple months now

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/906/41753835812_b4f47c29b8_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26BDjGU)2018-04-29_11-20-59 (https://flic.kr/p/26BDjGU) by snub_you (https://www.flickr.com/photos/spongeg/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/958/41753831722_27c03155c7_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/26BDiuo)2018-04-29_11-20-46 (https://flic.kr/p/26BDiuo) by snub_you (https://www.flickr.com/photos/spongeg/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/975/39988030050_97c112b96d_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/23VB7aY)2018-04-29_11-20-30 (https://flic.kr/p/23VB7aY) by snub_you (https://www.flickr.com/photos/spongeg/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/969/39988026740_f735a252ec_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/23VB6bU)2018-04-29_11-20-14 (https://flic.kr/p/23VB6bU) by snub_you (https://www.flickr.com/photos/spongeg/), on Flickr

connect2source
Apr 30, 2018, 11:55 AM
Mostly new bollards along the curb-side to replace the large concrete blocks there previously. You can clearly see them in the third photo just past the hoarding.

connect2source
Apr 30, 2018, 11:57 AM
Attention Spotters!! Lufthansa begins their A350 service to MUC tomorrow, May 1st, first one arrives at YVR at 4:35pm. it's Lufthansa's first A350 to visit YVR. I'm on that flight departing YVR Tuesday, in their new( ish ) Business Class product as well. I'll take some pics.

libtard
Apr 30, 2018, 1:50 PM
Mostly new bollards along the curb-side to replace the large concrete blocks there previously. You can clearly see them in the third photo just past the hoarding.

The concrete blocks were so cheap and temporary looking. Was wondering when YVR was going to use something that looked more refined

Speaking of these concrete blocks, is it one company that supplies them? I literally see them all over the lower mainland used for many different applications.

casper
Apr 30, 2018, 6:31 PM
The concrete blocks were so cheap and temporary looking. Was wondering when YVR was going to use something that looked more refined

Speaking of these concrete blocks, is it one company that supplies them? I literally see them all over the lower mainland used for many different applications.

While they are at it they might as well take out the phone booth. Perhaps replace the bank of 5 with 1. Can't see them getting much use these days.

SpongeG
Apr 30, 2018, 6:41 PM
ok makes sense.

There was an Iceland Air plane sitting on the ground next to Terminal B last night next to the westjet domestic area. I tried to get a pic but didn't get any clear view of it.

deasine
May 1, 2018, 3:39 AM
Don't quote me, but I believe it's part of the construction project for the new parkade, which will include an overhead connection to the parkade and Canada Line station, removing the need for international passengers to have to cross an active roadway (causing congestion, which is a real problem as of late...).

mezzanine
May 3, 2018, 5:06 AM
new service of LH's new A350 from the seasonal from MUC. IIRC this is the first LH A350 to anywhere in north america...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcKkP1rUwAAxI5t.jpg

twitter (https://twitter.com/yvrairport?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)

and this doesnt seem to raise an eye anymore, the summer return of BA's A380:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcKsewOUQAAznvr.jpg

twitter (https://twitter.com/yvrairport?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)

trofirhen
May 3, 2018, 2:33 PM
The Airbus 380 is indeed impressive, but I think the 350 is more beautiful. (IMO the most beautiful passenger jet ever was the VC-10. Wish they'd make an updated version of that one:rolleyes:)
Also, might Munich ever become year-round from YVR? (... one can always hope....)