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nname
May 4, 2018, 1:37 AM
March Passenger Stat

Domestic: 987,586 (+6.9%)
International: 1,102,168 (+11.5%)

----------

Transborder: 533,801 (+6.0%)
Asia Pacific: 364,150 (+17.4%)
Europe: 88,646 (+1.7%)
Misc: 115,571 (+32.3%)

----------

Total: 2,089,754 (+9.3%)



http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2018/03-march/march-2018-trafficupdatewebsite.pdf?la=en

zahav
May 4, 2018, 7:55 AM
Really good stats again, 9.3% year over year is awesome so far! The first 3 months we are 9.5% growth. Really amazing in the international (non-US) growth, it's on a major tear! Here's an interesting one to show how "Misc. Other" (ie. Latin America) has become massive. Last March, Eurpe was 87,181 and Misc. was 87,334 so a vitrual tie. This March, Europe was 88,646 and Misc. is 115,571! That gap has widened hugely

Johnny Aussie
May 4, 2018, 9:38 AM
Yeah those are fantastic numbers for March.

Impressive but 2018 YTD is already > 500,000 over 2017.

Overall YTD up 505,900
Domestic YTD up 178,950
International YTD up 326,950

hollywoodcory
May 4, 2018, 5:38 PM
new service of LH's new A350 from the seasonal from MUC. IIRC this is the first LH A350 to anywhere in north america...


LH was already serving MUC-DEN with the A350 since March.

trofirhen
May 4, 2018, 6:08 PM
Really good stats again, 9.3% year over year is awesome so far! The first 3 months we are 9.5% growth. Really amazing in the international (non-US) growth, it's on a major tear! Here's an interesting one to show how "Misc. Other" (ie. Latin America) has become massive. Last March, Eurpe was 87,181 and Misc. was 87,334 so a vitrual tie. This March, Europe was 88,646 and Misc. is 115,571! That gap has widened hugely

I was noticing how "Misc.Other" is meant, as you sate, as Latin America (for the moment meaning Mexico).
I had thought that "Misc;" meant all charter and non-scheduled flights, wherever they might be to / from.
Would it be an idea to add the category of "Latin America" seperately, and leave "Misc." for other, non-specific routes? This might add clarity to the figures, I thought.
Thank you for time and consideration.

osirisboy
May 4, 2018, 6:32 PM
I was noticing how "Misc.Other" is meant, as you sate, as Latin America (for the moment meaning Mexico).
I had thought that "Misc;" meant all charter and non-scheduled flights, wherever they might be to / from.
Would it be an idea to add the category of "Latin America" seperately, and leave "Misc." for other, non-specific routes? This might add clarity to the figures, I thought.
Thank you for time and consideration.

Then email the airport. No one here names the categories lol

zahav
May 4, 2018, 7:56 PM
Misc. isn't just Mexico, it is Mexico, Cuba, and all the Carribean destinations. I know Latin America is not the right word to encompass all of the Caribbean since there are english speaking places there too (ie Jamaica, which we have sun flights to), so they just use Misc. to mean anything other than Asia, Australia, and Europe. Technically if we had flights to Africa these would be in there too. But yes, if the airport feels the need to break out Mexico then they would, you can email and ask them. We just all know Mexico is the destination with the most scheduled flights and the most charter-type flights, we don't have massive travel to Dominician or the other Caribbean islands the way they do from out East. So we all casually say Misc. means Mexico, but it's noit actually true

nname
May 4, 2018, 9:44 PM
Misc. isn't just Mexico, it is Mexico, Cuba, and all the Carribean destinations. I know Latin America is not the right word to encompass all of the Caribbean since there are english speaking places there too (ie Jamaica, which we have sun flights to), so they just use Misc. to mean anything other than Asia, Australia, and Europe. Technically if we had flights to Africa these would be in there too. But yes, if the airport feels the need to break out Mexico then they would, you can email and ask them. We just all know Mexico is the destination with the most scheduled flights and the most charter-type flights, we don't have massive travel to Dominician or the other Caribbean islands the way they do from out East. So we all casually say Misc. means Mexico, but it's noit actually true

"Central America"

And they could add South America category once there is any.. or they can just change to "Central and South America"... and I don't think we'll ever need to worry about Africa.

LeftCoaster
May 4, 2018, 9:48 PM
I believe the consensus is that Central America includes neither Mexico nor the Caribbean.

Geographically the Caribbean really should be since it's on the same tectonic plate, but Mexico definitely isn't.

Hot Rod
May 4, 2018, 10:13 PM
https://airlinerwatch.com/china-southern-to-receive-its-first-dreamliner/

On May 2, Boeing published the departure images of the first 787-9 destined for China Southern Airlines. .... ...

.... will be deployed from its base in Guangzhou-Baiyun to Wuhan and San Francisco airports in June, then to Vancouver from July 1st.

nname
May 4, 2018, 10:25 PM
I believe the consensus is that Central America includes neither Mexico nor the Caribbean.

Geographically the Caribbean really should be since it's on the same tectonic plate, but Mexico definitely isn't.

"Middle America" then

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_America_(Americas)

LeftCoaster
May 4, 2018, 11:42 PM
Middle America? I guess, though I personally think of the midwest when I hear that.

There isn't a great term for anything below the US but above South America.

osirisboy
May 5, 2018, 12:19 AM
The stupidest category name is transborder. Why not just say USA. Are there any other countries that would fall under transborder?

thenoflyzone
May 5, 2018, 1:01 AM
March Passenger Stat


International: 1,102,168 (+11.5%)



international at YUL was +12.3% in march. Just sayin'

I give YVR a solid B+ in that category though.....:cheers:

As for the "Misc" category, that's freaking racist......If I was a Mexican, i'd be offended. Especially considering misc has more passengers than Europe. Time for YVR to give "misc" the credit it deserves.....

lol...middle america...lol....well it's better than Misc.

nname
May 5, 2018, 1:22 AM
the stupidest category name is transborder. Why not just say usa. Are there any other countries that would fall under transborder?

YVR-FSP maybe? :d:d:d

I wonder how YUL counted that one...

Johnny Aussie
May 5, 2018, 8:20 AM
AA’s inaugural flight to ORD (AA 2213) is in the air.

Quite a few new routes coming online in May and June.

MEL, DEL commence year round flights on AC. Seasonal CDG and ZRH start in a few weeks. Year round SMF also kicks off in 2 weeks.

Flair’s additional routes kick off to YYC, YXS and YWG in mid June.

There are plenty of other frequency additions.

And YVR’s 24th foreign overseas carrier Hainan commences in 3 weeks to TSN and SZX.

thenoflyzone
May 5, 2018, 12:04 PM
The stupidest category name is transborder. Why not just say USA. Are there any other countries that would fall under transborder?

StatsCan uses the term transborder. That's probably why Canadian airports go the extra mile to use it as well.

YVR-FSP maybe? :d:d:d

I wonder how YUL counted that one...

Technically, there is no land border to cross, and as FSP is part of France, it's counted as international. Now if Quebec were to separate, that would definately make the use of the word "transborder" more problematic .....:naughty:

As it stands right now, it's pretty obvious what transborder means.

Johnny Aussie
May 5, 2018, 11:24 PM
Most airports around the world breakup their stats as:

Overall
Domestic
International

Canada goes one step further:

Overall
Domestic
Transborder
International (other than USA)

YVR is the only airport in Canada that breaks down their stats more specifically.

I don’t think we need to get too hung up on this.

zahav
May 7, 2018, 8:00 AM
international at YUL was +12.3% in march. Just sayin'

I give YVR a solid B+ in that category though.....:cheers:

As for the "Misc" category, that's freaking racist......If I was a Mexican, i'd be offended. Especially considering misc has more passengers than Europe. Time for YVR to give "misc" the credit it deserves.....

lol...middle america...lol....well it's better than Misc.

YVR's purely international growth was higher than YUL's, it was 17.3% vs. 11.8% for YUL. The 11.5% combined transborder and international together is lower though yes :)

osirisboy
May 7, 2018, 3:43 PM
YVR's purely international growth was higher than YUL's, it was 17.3% vs. 11.8% for YUL. The 11.5% combined transborder and international together is lower though yes :)

So in other words Vancouver had a lower international growth rate than Montreal

LeftCoaster
May 7, 2018, 10:47 PM
Not the way Canadian airports strangely measure intl but yes by and other country's calculations YVR had 11.5% Intl+Transborder growth whereas YUL had 12.3%.

YVRs transbroder was relatively low in march at 6.0% whereas YUL had a huge month at 13.0%

trofirhen
May 8, 2018, 3:02 AM
Not the way Canadian airports strangely measure intl but yes by and other country's calculations YVR had 11.5% Intl+Transborder growth whereas YUL had 12.3%.

YVRs transbroder was relatively low in march at 6.0% whereas YUL had a huge month at 13.0%

As a much larger city that Vancouver, I could not understand why they (YUL) were at rank 3, just ahead of Calgary. Maybe Montreal is finally doing some catching up.

thenoflyzone
May 8, 2018, 12:25 PM
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/278509/air-canada-w18-long-haul-changes-as-of-07may18/

Vancouver – Delhi eff 28OCT18 winter 2018/19 sees 6 weekly for entire season with 787-9, compared to 4 weekly in W17 (7 weekly in selected periods)
Vancouver – London Heathrow 07NOV18 – 30JAN19 400-seater 777-300ER replaces 450-seater

LeftCoaster
May 8, 2018, 6:10 PM
^ Saw that on airlineroute this morning too, great news. hope to see it go daily year round soon. Maybe even Air India will jump into the mix :yes:

As a much larger city that Vancouver, I could not understand why they (YUL) were at rank 3, just ahead of Calgary. Maybe Montreal is finally doing some catching up.

Montreal is actually growing slower on a total basis this year, so the gap is widening.

The two airports have had similar growth over the last several years, with YVR slightly edging out YUL in total growth since 2010 (YVR @ 44%, YUL @ 40%).

Where YUL has made significant gain is in replacing YYC as 3rd busiest airport in Canada, a title they had briefly lost.

Hourglass
May 9, 2018, 6:07 AM
As a much larger city that Vancouver, I could not understand why they (YUL) were at rank 3, just ahead of Calgary. Maybe Montreal is finally doing some catching up.

I'd say historical factors such as running international flights from Mirabel airport and domestic from Dorval set Montreal's passenger growth back.

Geography also plays a part. There are very few large cities within close driving distance of Vancouver -- really only Seattle and Portland. Calgary is a 10+ hour drive. Anywhere else? Flying is basically your main option.

In contrast, from Montreal, Ottawa is 2 hours away by car. It's possible to drive from Montreal to Toronto or Boston in about 5 hours. Train service to Toronto is about the same time and is pretty price competitive. People have more travel options available than just flying.

I'm sure there are many other factors but these are the ones that come to mind.

Lancaster
May 9, 2018, 12:27 PM
I'd say historical factors such as running international flights from Mirabel airport and domestic from Dorval set Montreal's passenger growth back.

Geography also plays a part. There are very few large cities within close driving distance of Vancouver -- really only Seattle and Portland. Calgary is a 10+ hour drive. Anywhere else? Flying is basically your main option.

In contrast, from Montreal, Ottawa is 2 hours away by car. It's possible to drive from Montreal to Toronto or Boston in about 5 hours. Train service to Toronto is about the same time and is pretty price competitive. People have more travel options available than just flying.

I'm sure there are many other factors but these are the ones that come to mind.

The most obvious one that sticks out to me is that up until recently your only real options were Asia-YVR-Wherever and Europe/South America/Asia-YYZ-Wherever for connections. Toronto was the east coast hub, Vancouver was the west coast. Now it appears AC is positioning YUL as Asia/Europe-YUL-East Coast. YVR is Asia/some Europe/Oceania-YVR-West Coast. YYZ is Everywhere-YYZ-Everywhere.

trofirhen
May 9, 2018, 12:50 PM
The most obvious one that sticks out to me is that up until recently your only real options were Asia-YVR-Wherever and Europe/South America/Asia-YYZ-Wherever for connections. Toronto was the east coast hub, Vancouver was the west coast. Now it appears AC is positioning YUL as Asia/Europe-YUL-East Coast. YVR is Asia/some Europe/Oceania-YVR-West Coast. YYZ is Everywhere-YYZ-Everywhere.

Yes, I think your breakdown is pretty accurate. It's sometimes difficult to keep in mind that a country so spread out georgraphically poses aviation problems and challenges.
YVR has a few year-round destinations in Europe, and lots in Asia / Oceania. YUL has a few year-round destiantions in Asia, and lots in Europe. YYZ has everything but that's rather normal.
As the biggest, wealthiest, and most influential city in the country it's only normal that YYZ would have, as you say "Everywhere-Everywhere."
It would be nice if YVR had a couple more in Europe, maybe even one or two in South America, and if YUL had one or two more in Asia. but given Canada's configuration, 'as things are' seems quite normal. Hopefully, if current trends continue, YVR and YUL will get destinations in regions traditionally not in their "catch basin." We'll have to wait and see, but I'm optimistic.

Hot Rod
May 12, 2018, 3:17 AM
a slight modification to:

YUL: Europe/some Asia-YUL-East Coast.
YVR: Asia/Oceania/some Europe-YVR-West Coast.
YYZ: Asia/Europe/S America-YYZ-both coasts

key modifications. YUL does not have full service to Asia, nor does YYZ (albeit more than YUL) but YVR does have full Asia/Oceania. Also, don't kid yourself - YYZ does not have everywhere, as I just mentioned YVR has more Asia and Oceania than YYZ, but it does connect to almost everywhere (hence, both coasts).

What will be intersting is to see how AC does S America and Africa. I could see YYZ getting both (if it doesn't already have), with YUL getting some Africa and maybe some S America and YVR getting some S America.

The good news is even with the supposed expansion I made out of YUL and YYZ, there's still plenty Asian/Oceania destinations (even hubs) that AC does not fly:

Bangkok, Manila, Jakarta, Singapore, Auckland, Taipei (although I think YVR-TPE exists, or will shortly), Hanoi/Saigon, Kuala Lumpur, Mombai, Dubai, Istambul to name a few. I know many of these cities are served by foreign flags to Vancouver but not on AC.

There's also the plethora cities in China: Chongqing, Chengdu, Tianjin, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Xian, Shenyang along with 2ndary cities Busan, Kaohsiung, Cebu, Perth, Kolkata.

not saying all of these are likely on AC but they are possible.

trofirhen
May 12, 2018, 4:55 PM
a slight modification to:

YUL: Europe/some Asia-YUL-East Coast.
YVR: Asia/Oceania/some Europe-YVR-West Coast.
YYZ: Asia/Europe/S America-YYZ-both coasts

key modifications. YUL does not have full service to Asia, nor does YYZ (albeit more than YUL) but YVR does have full Asia/Oceania. Also, don't kid yourself - YYZ does not have everywhere, as I just mentioned YVR has more Asia and Oceania than YYZ, but it does connect to almost everywhere (hence, both coasts).

What will be intersting is to see how AC does S America and Africa. I could see YYZ getting both (if it doesn't already have), with YUL getting some Africa and maybe some S America and YVR getting some S America.

The good news is even with the supposed expansion I made out of YUL and YYZ, there's still plenty Asian/Oceania destinations (even hubs) that AC does not fly:

Bangkok, Manila, Jakarta, Singapore, Auckland, Taipei (although I think YVR-TPE exists, or will shortly), Hanoi/Saigon, Kuala Lumpur, Mombai, Dubai, Istambul to name a few. I know many of these cities are served by foreign flags to Vancouver but not on AC.

There's also the plethora cities in China: Chongqing, Chengdu, Tianjin, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Xian, Shenyang along with 2ndary cities Busan, Kaohsiung, Cebu, Perth, Kolkata.

not saying all of these are likely on AC but they are possible.

You've raised and clarified some very valid points, Hot Rod.
However, in your list at the bottom, there are some cities that are not top priority, such as KolkataHanoi/Saigon, and several others.
However, my impression is that right now there are 2 o 3 overseas airports Vancouver is hoping to get. One is Istanbul. Another is Singapore (shorter by YVR that LAX by several thousand km) and something into South America, be it Santiago, Lima, or GRU.
Funnily enough, DXB is not especially useful for YVR traffic, especially now that we have AC Delhi 5x per week round the year. DXB is 180° Longitude, straight over the pole from YVR,
so any connecions out of there are backtracking (as into Europe) or going around the world once, then some more, as With India.
With the lifting of certain Brazilian visa restrictions, a flight to São Paulo is more likely. From HK, and SE Asia to GRU it's faster through DBX, but for Nothesat Asia it's a different story.
Tokyo -YYZ GU cut right over YYZ making it the shortes route. Yet ...... because the globe is "smaller (not as "fat") in the north, the Tokyo -GRU via YVR is only 44 miles//77 km longer!!
A Tokyo São Paulo flight via YVR is quiteIn North America, I'd like to see GDL & MTY in Mexico added.
Regarding AC sarting up service on any of the routes I mentioned; I'd rather doubt it at at present or near future. There might be a few foreign tails added, but not AC, not at first.

mezzanine
May 12, 2018, 11:07 PM
new LH livery at YVR.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdB0bZ8U8AAuPlI.jpg

twitter (https://twitter.com/towerden/status/995423540412170240)

Hourglass
May 13, 2018, 2:58 AM
Sweet pic. Not a fan of the new LH design. The Air New Zealand livery on the other hand...

thenoflyzone
May 13, 2018, 12:32 PM
a slight modification to:

YUL: Europe/some Asia-YUL-East Coast.
YVR: Asia/Oceania/some Europe-YVR-West Coast.
YYZ: Asia/Europe/S America-YYZ-both coasts

key modifications. YUL does not have full service to Asia, nor does YYZ (albeit more than YUL) but YVR does have full Asia/Oceania. Also, don't kid yourself - YYZ does not have everywhere, as I just mentioned YVR has more Asia and Oceania than YYZ, but it does connect to almost everywhere (hence, both coasts).

What will be intersting is to see how AC does S America and Africa. I could see YYZ getting both (if it doesn't already have), with YUL getting some Africa and maybe some S America and YVR getting some S America.

The good news is even with the supposed expansion I made out of YUL and YYZ, there's still plenty Asian/Oceania destinations (even hubs) that AC does not fly:

Bangkok, Manila, Jakarta, Singapore, Auckland, Taipei (although I think YVR-TPE exists, or will shortly), Hanoi/Saigon, Kuala Lumpur, Mombai, Dubai, Istambul to name a few. I know many of these cities are served by foreign flags to Vancouver but not on AC.

There's also the plethora cities in China: Chongqing, Chengdu, Tianjin, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Xian, Shenyang along with 2ndary cities Busan, Kaohsiung, Cebu, Perth, Kolkata.

not saying all of these are likely on AC but they are possible.

Define full service. Silly notion really.

YYZ definitely covers East Asia pretty well, considering it's an east coast city.

Put it this way. YYZ has better service to East Asia than YVR has to Europe. As i said earlier, the "misc" category had more passengers than "europe" out of YVR in March.

As for Canada - S. America, YYZ is already king in that department. Same way YUL- (North) Africa is though to beat.

As for that list of dozen of cities at the end: Need i remind you TPAC flights are lower yielding that TATL flights. Price of oil is going up. You do the math. AC isn't going to fly 10,000 km+ flights over the Pacific to Vietnam, Thailand, or any secondary city in China, with low yielding passengers just for kicks, certainly not now.

Dont use the Chinese airlines expanding in YVR as example of what AC should do across the Pacific. The Chinese carriers are mostly government owned and get huge subsidies to prop up routes. That's not the case at AC.

new LH livery at YVR.


It sucks. :yuck:

Hot Rod
May 13, 2018, 8:17 PM
Define full service. Silly notion really.

YYZ definitely covers East Asia pretty well, considering it's an east coast city.

Put it this way. YYZ has better service to East Asia than YVR has to Europe. As i said earlier, the "misc" category had more passengers than "europe" out of YVR in March.

As for Canada - S. America, YYZ is already king in that department. Same way YUL- (North) Africa is though to beat.

As for that list of dozen of cities at the end: Need i remind you TPAC flights are lower yielding that TATL flights. Price of oil is going up. You do the math. AC isn't going to fly 10,000 km+ flights over the Pacific to Vietnam, Thailand, or any secondary city in China, with low yielding passengers just for kicks, certainly not now.

Dont use the Chinese airlines expanding in YVR as example of what AC should do across the Pacific. The Chinese carriers are mostly government owned and get huge subsidies to prop up routes. That's not the case at AC.



It sucks. :yuck:

and that's not the case in Europe or Africa with carriers flying into YYZ or YUL? Yet is used to make business case for AC to those destinations. ....

Look - dont whet your shorts, I was responding to lancaster's post where he wrote: "AC is positioning YUL as Asia/Europe-YUL-East Coast. YVR is Asia/some Europe/Oceania-YVR-West Coast. YYZ is Everywhere-YYZ-Everywhere." Let me clarify. ...

If you read my post, you would see I was responding to the correlation he was making with YUL having 'Asia/Europe' then YVR having 'Asia/Some Europe. There is an inconsistency in that statement because YUL does not have the same Asia as YVR yet was written the same; yet YVR clearly doesn't have the same Europe as YUL but he used Some Europe for YVR. Consistency would dictate he should have used Europe/some Asia to describe YUL in the same manner that he correctly described Asia/some Europe for YVR.

Hence, I would rewrite the statement - correctly- as YUL: Europe/some Asia-YUL-East Coast and YVR: Asia/Oceania/some Europe-YVR-West Coast.

As for the term Full Service, I was meaning that to describe a full slate of destinations for said continent. YUL has full Europe (Canadian standard offering) yet YVR has full Asia. Semantics, yes but my revision better reflects reality which is YVR is the King of Asia/Oceania and that isn't changing.

I also thought he gave Toronto a pass on the Everywhere to Everywhere statement. YYZ does not offer the same Asia as YVR on AIR CANADA so this statement is also not true. I would write it as Europe/S America/most Asia - YYZ - Both Coasts as this is the more clear representation comparing the big 3. To use your own notion, YVR covers Europe pretty well for a West Coast city - particularly if you consider foreign flag carriers in the same way that you MUST be considering YUL having E Asia coverage.....

Truth is: You're trying to make YUL into this super connecting hub downplaying YVR any chance - you might very well get away with it on the Canada Airport forum which is dominated by YUL cheerleaders such as yourself but expect a dose of reality especially if/when you post on the YVR page.

Hot Rod
May 13, 2018, 8:20 PM
Trof;

great points, as usual. But I did want to respond to a few that i threw out as goals for YVR. Most of them that aren't connecting or * or Skyteam hubs are future. That is true for DBX, I am certainly not recommending we go after that airport given the immature nature of flights we have. However, once things mature I do think all major world cities should work to have connections and that goes for DBX and YVR too. Much later, but still a goal in the future.

Klazu
May 13, 2018, 10:59 PM
Count me in the haters of the new Lufthansa livery. The old one had unique colors, was instantly recognizable and was elegant. The new one is so meh. Bad change just for the sake of change.

The new Air Canada livery on the other hand grown on me.

thenoflyzone
May 13, 2018, 11:41 PM
Truth is: You're trying to make YUL into this super connecting hub downplaying YVR any chance - you might very well get away with it on the Canada Airport forum which is dominated by YUL cheerleaders such as yourself but expect a dose of reality especially if/when you post on the YVR page.

Out of everything I wrote, that's what you got? Wow. What a vivid sense of imagination you have. You need to step away from the tail pipe of your hot rod for a second, and smell some fresh air.....

trofirhen
May 14, 2018, 12:05 AM
Count me in the haters of the new Lufthansa livery. The old one had unique colors, was instantly recognizable and was elegant. The new one is so meh. Bad change just for the sake of change.

The new Air Canada livery on the other hand grown on me.
I always linked the dark blue with gold lettering with the former Lufthasa planes, too.:( Alors que the new Air Canada color scheme, IMO, is crisp and businesslike, white with black trim.:)
Out of everything I wrote, that's what you got? Wow. What a vivid sense of imagination you have. You need to step away from the tail pipe of your hot rod for a second, and smell some fresh air.....
:2cents:If I may: I think that what Hot Rod's reference, at least in part, is:: the imbalance between what YUL gets for Asia and Europe, and what YVR does NOT get in Europe.

Lancaster
May 14, 2018, 2:53 AM
and that's not the case in Europe or Africa with carriers flying into YYZ or YUL? Yet is used to make business case for AC to those destinations. ....

Look - dont whet your shorts, I was responding to lancaster's post where he wrote: "AC is positioning YUL as Asia/Europe-YUL-East Coast. YVR is Asia/some Europe/Oceania-YVR-West Coast. YYZ is Everywhere-YYZ-Everywhere." Let me clarify. ...

If you read my post, you would see I was responding to the correlation he was making with YUL having 'Asia/Europe' then YVR having 'Asia/Some Europe. There is an inconsistency in that statement because YUL does not have the same Asia as YVR yet was written the same; yet YVR clearly doesn't have the same Europe as YUL but he used Some Europe for YVR. Consistency would dictate he should have used Europe/some Asia to describe YUL in the same manner that he correctly described Asia/some Europe for YVR.

Hence, I would rewrite the statement - correctly- as YUL: Europe/some Asia-YUL-East Coast and YVR: Asia/Oceania/some Europe-YVR-West Coast.

As for the term Full Service, I was meaning that to describe a full slate of destinations for said continent. YUL has full Europe (Canadian standard offering) yet YVR has full Asia. Semantics, yes but my revision better reflects reality which is YVR is the King of Asia/Oceania and that isn't changing.

I also thought he gave Toronto a pass on the Everywhere to Everywhere statement. YYZ does not offer the same Asia as YVR on AIR CANADA so this statement is also not true. I would write it as Europe/S America/most Asia - YYZ - Both Coasts as this is the more clear representation comparing the big 3. To use your own notion, YVR covers Europe pretty well for a West Coast city - particularly if you consider foreign flag carriers in the same way that you MUST be considering YUL having E Asia coverage.....

I intentionally left "some" out of the statement on YUL with regards to Asia. If you look at the asian destinations that mainline AC offers from YVR...
HKG (YYZ)
PEK (YYZ, YUL on CA (accounting for expected JV))
PVG (YYZ, YUL)
NRT (YYZ, YUL)
ICN (YYZ)
TPE

And then look at european destinations that mainline AC offers from YUL...
BRU
FRA (YYZ, YVR)
GVA (YYZ)
LYS
CDG (YYZ, YVR)
FCO (YYZ)
DUB (YYZ)
KEF

YUL has more fingers in YVR's 'Asia' cookie jar than YVR has in YUL's 'Europe'. And in both cases, YYZ is all over each airports "strengths". Whatever. I could not care less if YUL gets just as many asian services as YVR so long as the journey time for the passenger is the shortest. It makes zero sense for a passenger to fly NRT-YVR-BOS if a NRT-YUL-BOS ticket is available. If AC can do it profitably then it's only better for Canadians. However, I only get upset if AC strategized connecting passengers NRT-YUL-SFO instead of NRT-YVR-SFO.


Truth is: You're trying to make YUL into this super connecting hub downplaying YVR any chance - you might very well get away with it on the Canada Airport forum which is dominated by YUL cheerleaders such as yourself but expect a dose of reality especially if/when you post on the YVR page.

That was a totally unnecessary drive-by.

trofirhen
May 14, 2018, 9:19 AM
I think size has a lot to do with it. YYZ metro: nearly 7 million, YUL metro 4+ million, YVR metro 2.5 million.
When the O&D numbers grow in Vancouver, then hopefully we'll get some more year-round 'Europe Cookies.'
(I have to admit though, YUL seems to get a better overall destination roster than YVR, even if adjusting for city market size).

thenoflyzone
May 18, 2018, 3:40 PM
There's also the plethora cities in China: Chongqing, Chengdu, Tianjin, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Xian, Shenyang along with 2ndary cities Busan, Kaohsiung, Cebu, Perth, Kolkata.

not saying all of these are likely on AC but they are possible.

AC seems content with codeshares to NKG, SZX, XMN and CGO. That should tell you all you need to know about AC and it's intentions as far as secondary Chinese destinations go.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/278677/air-canada-expands-air-china-codeshares-from-may-2018/

Air Canada earlier this month expanded codeshare partnership with Air China, which sees AC-coded flight numbers being placed on additional domestic China routes operated by the latter. Following new codeshare routes went into effect on (or earlier) 07MAY18.

Air Canada operated by Air China
Beijing – Nanjing
Beijing – Shenzhen
Beijing – Xiamen
Beijing – Zhengzhou

Ouside of CAN, i don't see AC launching any other destination in China. Even CAN is a long shot, as the only Star carrier from Europe or North America that flies there is TK. And if AC does launch it, it will probably be YYZ-CAN, and not YVR.

AC wants more slots at Beijing and Shanghai. That's all they want.

SIN and AKL are logically next in line, as far as Asia/Oceania destinations go for AC out of YVR.

LeftCoaster
May 18, 2018, 8:51 PM
Ouside of CAN, i don't see AC launching any other destination in China. Even CAN is a long shot, as the only Star carrier from Europe or North America that flies there is TK. And if AC does launch it, it will probably be YYZ-CAN, and not YVR.

AC wants more slots at Beijing and Shanghai. That's all they want.

SIN and AKL are logically next in line, as far as Asia/Oceania destinations go for AC out of YVR.

I'd agree with all of this, especially with the last dreamliners coming in there aren't a ton of new frames to open up new routes.

Changes I see for YVR are Melbourne going daily, new service to Singapore, and potentially a route to AKL, though I could see them just allowing their *A partner to handle it.

Also, highly doubt AC would go to CAN out of YYZ. If anything it would be YVR but I don't see either happening.

Lancaster
May 19, 2018, 1:01 AM
I'd agree with all of this, especially with the last dreamliners coming in there aren't a ton of new frames to open up new routes.

Changes I see for YVR are Melbourne going daily, new service to Singapore, and potentially a route to AKL, though I could see them just allowing their *A partner to handle it.

Also, highly doubt AC would go to CAN out of YYZ. If anything it would be YVR but I don't see either happening.

So what happens for AC now? Do they stop expanding over the next five years and let WS catch up? Can't believe that they would just be content to stop increasing market share.

zahav
May 19, 2018, 4:14 AM
I intentionally left "some" out of the statement on YUL with regards to Asia. If you look at the asian destinations that mainline AC offers from YVR...
HKG (YYZ)
PEK (YYZ, YUL on CA (accounting for expected JV))
PVG (YYZ, YUL)
NRT (YYZ, YUL)
ICN (YYZ)
TPE

And then look at european destinations that mainline AC offers from YUL...
BRU
FRA (YYZ, YVR)
GVA (YYZ)
LYS
CDG (YYZ, YVR)
FCO (YYZ)
DUB (YYZ)
KEF

YUL has more fingers in YVR's 'Asia' cookie jar than YVR has in YUL's 'Europe'. And in both cases, YYZ is all over each airports "strengths". Whatever. I could not care less if YUL gets just as many asian services as YVR so long as the journey time for the passenger is the shortest. It makes zero sense for a passenger to fly NRT-YVR-BOS if a NRT-YUL-BOS ticket is available. If AC can do it profitably then it's only better for Canadians. However, I only get upset if AC strategized connecting passengers NRT-YUL-SFO instead of NRT-YVR-SFO.




That was a totally unnecessary drive-by.

If we are talking strictly AC, then yes YUL having 1/2 of the Asian destinations of YVR is a higher proportion than YVR has of Europe for sure. But if you take all airline services to both continents from both airports, then it changes fairly dramatically. The only European services YUL has that YVR doesn't is Swiss (and YVR has Swiss-owned Edelweiss), and seasonal Azores Airlines and Corsair (and Transat's various small frequency seasonal services). YVR has Icelandair, KLM, Air France, Lufthansa, British Airways same as YUL. But for Asia, YVR has ANA, JAL, Korean Air, Beijing Capital, Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, China Eastern, China Southern, EVA, Hainan, Hong Kong Airlines, Philippine Airlines, Sichuan, and Xiamen (and tons of individual destinations amongst those). And really Asia Pacific is the correct category, so you add in AC to MEL, BNE, SYD, and *Alliance to AKL and YUL only has 3/10, and you can add Air New Zealand and Qantas to the other airlines list.

And please let's be honest, noflyzone goes out of his way to diminsh anything about YVR at every chance, it's just the way it is, doesn't matter, but it is what it is. Claiming it isn't the case is being really oblivious.... YUL is doing well and so is YVR, they have their own strengths, can't it just be discussed without so much hostility lol

trofirhen
May 20, 2018, 1:21 AM
If we are talking strictly AC, then yes YUL having 1/2 of the Asian destinations of YVR is a higher proportion than YVR has of Europe for sure. But if you take all airline services to both continents from both airports, then it changes fairly dramatically. The only European services YUL has that YVR doesn't is Swiss (and YVR has Swiss-owned Edelweiss), and seasonal Azores Airlines and Corsair (and Transat's various small frequency seasonal services). YVR has Icelandair, KLM, Air France, Lufthansa, British Airways same as YUL. But for Asia, YVR has ANA, JAL, Korean Air, Beijing Capital, Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, China Eastern, China Southern, EVA, Hainan, Hong Kong Airlines, Philippine Airlines, Sichuan, and Xiamen (and tons of individual destinations amongst those). And really Asia Pacific is the correct category, so you add in AC to MEL, BNE, SYD, and *Alliance to AKL and YUL only has 3/10, and you can add Air New Zealand and Qantas to the other airlines list.

And please let's be honest, noflyzone goes out of his way to diminsh anything about YVR at every chance // edited//... (oh really?) ..........
I think you've made a good case for the number of airlines that do fly into Vancouver, Zahav. As you point out, there's quite an extensive list, a great many of them Chinese, but most major countries in Asia represented, usually - or more often than not - represented by their own airlines and not Air Canada - although AC opening up Australia, with Air NZ, YVR is sovereign of the south seas.

You stated -
YVR has Icelandair, KLM, Air France, Lufthansa, British Airways same as YUL.
That is true ...... but only if you're talking about Europe itself. Like YVR, YUL has its own batch of foreign airlines: Air Algérie,Royal Air Maroc, Qatar Airways, and Turkish.
Istanbul is a route I hope to see up and running hopefully some time in 2019. They'll get it if the feds don't block things. TK will also start Seattle runs about the same time, apparently.

mezzanine
May 20, 2018, 7:51 PM
I'd agree with all of this, especially with the last dreamliners coming in there aren't a ton of new frames to open up new routes.

Changes I see for YVR are Melbourne going daily, new service to Singapore, and potentially a route to AKL, though I could see them just allowing their *A partner to handle it.

Also, highly doubt AC would go to CAN out of YYZ. If anything it would be YVR but I don't see either happening.

I suspect there will be a change-up with asia/china service with the imminent AC/CA JV. I suppose we will see soon.

thenoflyzone
May 21, 2018, 2:49 PM
CAAC will ease "one route, one airline" policy for Chinese carriers, starting Oct 1, 2018. Still a lot of restrictions in place for Category II intl long haul routes, which Canada is part of.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-aviation/china-to-ease-one-route-one-airline-policy-for-chinese-carriers-idUSKCN1IF0SR

Based on the details being discussed over on airliners, the new policy is still heavily skewed in CA's favor.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1394075

Unless the Canada-China bilateral is renegotiated, which I don't see happening, especially if the Conservatives return to power next year, Chinese carriers will still be maxed out and won't be able to take advantage of this new ruling.

nname
May 22, 2018, 11:09 AM
Osaka Summer 2019 Operation:

AC39 YVR 1320 - 1545+1 KIX 788 247
AC40 KIX 1715 - 1015 YVR 788 135

Effective May 12; can't see schedule past May 21 yet...

I guess that doesn't leave room for the NGO flight...

twoNeurons
May 22, 2018, 4:37 PM
Osaka Summer 2019 Operation:

AC39 YVR 1320 - 1545+1 KIX 788 247
AC40 KIX 1715 - 1015 YVR 788 135

Effective May 12; can't see schedule past May 21 yet...

I guess that doesn't leave room for the NGO flight...

788?!... YVR-KIX is being mainlined?

thenoflyzone
May 22, 2018, 9:30 PM
788?!... YVR-KIX is being mainlined?

All the RV 767s are moving out east. Mostly to address operational reliability issues. Those 767s are getting old, and basing them at 3 hubs across the country was proving to be too difficult and came with some challenges.

Basing them solely at YYZ/YUL will help offset some of those issues.

twoNeurons
May 23, 2018, 6:40 AM
All the RV 767s are moving out east. Mostly to address operational reliability issues. Those 767s are getting old, and basing them at 3 hubs across the country was proving to be too difficult and came with some challenges.

Basing them solely at YYZ/YUL will help offset some of those issues.

In that case, I'm just glad they're keeping the YVR-KIX run and upgauging it... though it sounds like it's at the sacrifice of YVR-NGO.

I'm assuming this flight won't be marketed as an AC Rouge flight.

zahav
May 23, 2018, 7:09 AM
It definitely won't have anything to do with Rouge, it's just a straight-up mainline flight now. The schedule and days could change, but it is going mainline as has been rumoured for a while. Now just NGO and DUB left for Rouge, I wonder if they would consider a mainline 330 on DUB?

trofirhen
May 23, 2018, 9:50 AM
It definitely won't have anything to do with Rouge, it's just a straight-up mainline flight now. The schedule and days could change, but it is going mainline as has been rumoured for a while. Now just NGO and DUB left for Rouge, I wonder if they would consider a mainline 330 on DUB?

Do you think that DUB would still be seasonal, or (just maybe) go to year-round? I ask this in part because, as I understand, AER LINGUS is going to start year-round to SEA:)
Or is this just a change of aircraft?

connect2source
May 23, 2018, 12:01 PM
Had the pleasure of riding LH's brand new A350 service to Munich May 3rd, the second day of the service, here are some pics from the tailcam and wheelcam leaving YVR and approaching MUC. Just a heads-up, the business class product is still the mediocre 2-2-2 layout but the service was fantastic. The A350 is a dream the fly, super-quiet, large windows, much improved humidity and noticeably wider than the 787.


http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag130/Dean_Ellison/IMG_4546_zps6rh7q9oo.jpg

http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag130/Dean_Ellison/IMG_4549_zpsxsllx4a3.jpg

http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag130/Dean_Ellison/IMG_4548_zpsgbi7mobk.jpg

http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag130/Dean_Ellison/IMG_4564_zpsb2sjxk3s.jpg

thenoflyzone
May 23, 2018, 12:13 PM
Do you think that DUB would still be seasonal, or (just maybe) go to year-round? I ask this in part because, as I understand, AER LINGUS is going to start year-round to SEA:)
Or is this just a change of aircraft?

EI is year round because the two cities have business ties.

Microsoft and Amazon, two companies based in Seattle, have significant operations in Ireland.

trofirhen
May 23, 2018, 12:39 PM
EI is year round because the two cities have business ties.

Microsoft and Amazon, two companies based in Seattle, have significant operations in Ireland.

I think you've answered my question. Thanks.

officedweller
May 23, 2018, 8:51 PM
City of Richmond set to approve permit for YVR jet-fuel pipeline

https://assets.vancouverisawesome.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/22132905/richmond-fuel.jpg
The 13-kilometre pipeline project is expected to cost more than $150 million | VAFFC
https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/2018/05/22/city-richmond-jet-fuel-pipeline/

LeftCoaster
May 23, 2018, 10:38 PM
So what happens for AC now? Do they stop expanding over the next five years and let WS catch up? Can't believe that they would just be content to stop increasing market share.

Sounds like it. They just announced they will not be exercising their options on the remaining 10 dreamliners they had options for. Too bad, this will definitely hurt YVR the most, as YUL still has some A333s inbound which could easily rotate through YYZ too but not YVR.

Osaka Summer 2019 Operation:

AC39 YVR 1320 - 1545+1 KIX 788 247
AC40 KIX 1715 - 1015 YVR 788 135

Effective May 12; can't see schedule past May 21 yet...

I guess that doesn't leave room for the NGO flight...

Hmm, only 3x PW? That's a big capacity cut. Hope it increases past May.

EI is year round because the two cities have business ties.

Microsoft and Amazon, two companies based in Seattle, have significant operations in Ireland.

I'd imagine DUB gets mainlined out of YVR and likely goes year round soon. There are an astounding number of new Irish immigrants in Vancouver and the tech scenes between the two cities are flourishing.

casper
May 23, 2018, 11:03 PM
Sounds like it. They just announced they will not be exercising their options on the remaining 10 dreamliners they had options for. Too bad, this will definitely hurt YVR the most, as YUL still has some A333s inbound which could easily rotate through YYZ too but not YVR.



Hmm, only 3x PW? That's a big capacity cut. Hope it increases past May.



I'd imagine DUB gets mainlined out of YVR and likely goes year round soon. There are an astounding number of new Irish immigrants in Vancouver and the tech scenes between the two cities are flourishing.

they still have some 787 coming they have 4 A330 and they have added a number of narrow body 737 max doing routes that use to be done by wide body aircraft

it is all positive for Vancouver if you add more 330 and overwater flying for 737 out of Toronto and Montreal that frees up 787 for YVR flying. even shifting hHawaii to 737 is a positive as it allows Ac to open new routes with the displaced aircraft

Cage
May 23, 2018, 11:25 PM
So what happens for AC now? Do they stop expanding over the next five years and let WS catch up? Can't believe that they would just be content to stop increasing market share.

The market for used 333 is quite strong and not expected to tighten over the next while.

The max8 TransAt operation could grow to the point where AC mainline opens daily services to all of EDi, GLA, MAN, BHX etc. frees up additional widebody capacity.

There are possibilities for a 10-20 airplane fleet of 321neo or max10 aircraft.

AC might decide to wait for the 797 or similar offering from Airbus. At some point airplane manufacturers will realize there is a market for 190-250 seat small J cabin widebody aircraft. The current participants 332 and 788 are not well suited for the market as they require a large premium cabin(s) to get the seat count down to 220-250.

nname
May 24, 2018, 1:26 AM
From the schedule, seems like AC will increase YVR-YZF to 2x daily starting Oct 27...

Late night departures added from both YVR and YZF.

And also, YVR-SJC and YVR-SAN are both 3x daily through most of the winter. I remembered they were 2x daily each last winter?

LO 044
May 24, 2018, 1:45 PM
The market for used 333 is quite strong and not expected to tighten over the next while.

The max8 TransAt operation could grow to the point where AC mainline opens daily services to all of EDi, GLA, MAN, BHX etc. frees up additional widebody capacity.

There are possibilities for a 10-20 airplane fleet of 321neo or max10 aircraft.

AC might decide to wait for the 797 or similar offering from Airbus. At some point airplane manufacturers will realize there is a market for 190-250 seat small J cabin widebody aircraft. The current participants 332 and 788 are not well suited for the market as they require a large premium cabin(s) to get the seat count down to 220-250.
I know this is a little further off of the YVR discussion board but i am curious how the ex-Rouge flights are/will be doing this summer and how that translates into next year. An example is YYZ-WAW. This flight among others have been switched to mainline service. Looking at some bookings during the summer, the loads look poor. I know that looking at bookings through AC.com doesn't tell the whole story but with the retirement of the mainline 767's in 2019 what happens? Will these flights be dropped? Sure the 330 will not take over a YYZ-WAW flight. Or am i missing something in that mainline AC will retire the 767's but Rouge will actually take over these birds?

casper
May 25, 2018, 7:51 AM
I know this is a little further off of the YVR discussion board but i am curious how the ex-Rouge flights are/will be doing this summer and how that translates into next year. An example is YYZ-WAW. This flight among others have been switched to mainline service. Looking at some bookings during the summer, the loads look poor. I know that looking at bookings through AC.com doesn't tell the whole story but with the retirement of the mainline 767's in 2019 what happens? Will these flights be dropped? Sure the 330 will not take over a YYZ-WAW flight. Or am i missing something in that mainline AC will retire the 767's but Rouge will actually take over these birds?

AC is also putting the 737max on YVR to Hawaii and likely some other European routes that might have been 767 on mainline or rouge. That should free up rouge 767 to operate YYZ-WAW if Rouge is a more appropriate offering on that route.

Someone more familiar with AC operations can potentially answer the question is there a more profitable route out there that the 767 on YYZ-WAW could be deployed onto? That I don't know.

Johnny Aussie
May 25, 2018, 9:29 AM
YVR’s next foreign carrier is on its way from TSN.

HU7959 has about 6h15m to go.

Almost forgot about this one...
:haha:

LeftCoaster
May 25, 2018, 8:58 PM
Here's the water cannon arrival of Hainan from YVR's instagram:

https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/4897077e12cd932dcf9ffe76ba8335a3/5B92E616/t51.2885-15/e35/33059586_426818197781548_2722321675759648768_n.jpg?se=7&ig_cache_key=MTc4NzE5MjU3NDkyNDMzODgwOQ%3D%3D.2

https://www.instagram.com/yvrairport/?hl=en

Johnny Aussie
May 25, 2018, 11:35 PM
Nice one.

AC’s new year round MEL flights also start next weekend. Melbourne has the largest tram network in the world. Why mention that? I’ve seen two of the larger trams completely painted and decked out advertising the new service. Touting YVR as “your new gateway to North America. I’ll try and take a pic if I see another one.

Still lots of exciting things going on.

I think it’s time to discuss South America again.

LeftCoaster
May 28, 2018, 9:19 PM
I think it’s time to discuss South America again.

It's been ages.

excel
May 28, 2018, 11:09 PM
Melbourne has the largest tram network in the world.

I learned this fun fact in the game Mini Metro.

trofirhen
May 29, 2018, 12:09 AM
I think it’s time to discuss South America again.

It's been ages.

If a South America route goes through, YVR will be a 5-continent airport. ("Big League," if you will ...)

Johnny Aussie
May 29, 2018, 2:44 AM
I learned this fun fact in the game Mini Metro.

Excellent! Did you do well in it?

Metro Melbourne is about to hit 5 million and we need help fixing our PT system... can't cope with our unprecedented growth. They need to stop promoting us as the most liveable city in the world! :D:P:haha:

As for AC mainline to KIX.... way too early to conclude there's a reduction in capacity.... May is still shoulder season... expect to see more frequencies for peak summer (late June to early September).

AC mainline long-haul will grow to 15 destinations from YVR. That's more than double what it was just four years ago.

LeftCoaster
May 30, 2018, 9:56 PM
AC mainline long-haul will grow to 15 destinations from YVR. That's more than double what it was just four years ago.

Sure sure sure, but we want MORE!

Hope you're right about KIX, considering NGO is almost certainly getting the axe hopefully service to KIX doesn't take a big hit, or hit at all.

trofirhen
May 31, 2018, 12:21 AM
SQL has announced it will start SIN-EWR nonstop flights - the longest in the world - at 9535 miles / 15345 km in the near future, using the A350 ULH. (With no economy class, however).
As such, this would make YYZ-SYD flights possible (as well as YYZ-SIN flights). By extension, could this this possible mean YVR losing its Canadian monopoly on Australia routes to YYZ?
I doubt this would be doable, as the EWR-SIN route has no economy class, and YYZ-Australia would presumably need an economy class (B789) to make it viable. YYZ is not NYC.:cool:
Nevertheless, I just hope that there are areas of the world where YVR would maintain soveregnty in the Canadian market. I'd hate to see YYZ infiltrate YVR's own "space."
Unlikely: yes, I think. Possible? I'll let the professionals answer that one. But hey, YYZ just got Manila nonstop, so could it ultimately eat further into YVR TransPacific territory?

Gordon
May 31, 2018, 3:26 AM
Next week Ac's Vyr CDG & Zhg flights start, i wond er if YVR will need it;s new Remote Stands?

Johnny Aussie
May 31, 2018, 6:12 AM
Next week Ac's Vyr CDG & Zhg flights start, i wond er if YVR will need it;s new Remote Stands?

Next week is a big week for AC INTL ops at YVR. MEL, DEL, CDG and ZRH all kick off in the next 10 days.

nname
May 31, 2018, 6:17 AM
Next week Ac's Vyr CDG & Zhg flights start, i wond er if YVR will need it;s new Remote Stands?

Not for Thursday at least. There is still two gates sitting empty tomorrow at noon time (73 and 93). And they can probably squeeze out a gate or two if they try hard enough...

osirisboy
May 31, 2018, 6:23 AM
This might be a stupid question but didn't ac always fly to Paris?

zahav
May 31, 2018, 7:44 AM
This might be a stupid question but didn't ac always fly to Paris?

No they haven't for at least 15 years, I'm not sure when it was Canadian Airlines, but not since at least the merger.

I have a feeling DUB will go mainline with a 330 or something, and maybe rotate with YUL. I don't think they will want to let that route go, but we shall see!

thenoflyzone
May 31, 2018, 1:19 PM
No they haven't for at least 15 years, I'm not sure when it was Canadian Airlines, but not since at least the merger.

That's not true.

AC operated direct service YVR-CDG (through YUL) with a B763 in summer 2009.

AC884 YVR0850-1634YUL1810-0705+1CDG B763 D
AC885 CDG1130-1315YUL1430-1659YVR B763 D

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=22103&item=138089

nname
May 31, 2018, 9:37 PM
Effective tomorrow, Central Mountain Air will relocate to South Terminal from the B-concourse.

Since CMA codeshare with AC... I guess some of the AC itineraries will now require a terminal change at YVR? :shrug:

LeftCoaster
May 31, 2018, 10:07 PM
That's not true.

AC operated direct service YVR-CDG (through YUL) with a B763 in summer 2009.

AC884 YVR0850-1634YUL1810-0705+1CDG B763 D
AC885 CDG1130-1315YUL1430-1659YVR B763 D

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=22103&item=138089

I know the weird airline lingo definition, but that's hardly direct.... It's 800 miles out of the way.

LeftCoaster
May 31, 2018, 10:11 PM
Was taking a look at Singapore Airlines upcoming fleet additions, and to put it simply they are massive.

They are replacing:

22 A330-300s
9 B777-200s
9 B777-200ERs
5 B777 300s
27 B777 300ERs


With:


60 A350 900s
7 A350 900ULRs
20 B77X 9s
49 B787-10s


That's 72 airplanes being replaced by 136 airplanes which are larger on average.

I calculated the seats and they are going from 19,800 seats to 39,820 seats!

With that big of a capacity boost I have a very VERY difficult time believing that we wont see Singapore Airlines begin service to YVR in the next few years.

Only thing that makes it anything but assured is the layout of their A350-900 which is quite premium heavy. That said with the wealth in Singapore and the wealthy asian demographic in Vancouver I think they could make it work.

Gordon
May 31, 2018, 10:14 PM
Any reason for the terminal change for CMA, I yvr starting work on end of pier B?

Tomorrow gates D62 D75& D76 are in use at the same time.

thenoflyzone
Jun 1, 2018, 12:25 AM
I know the weird airline lingo definition, but that's hardly direct.... It's 800 miles out of the way.

its a 16% increase in total distance flown. Not the end of the world. And there is nothing weird about the lingo.

casper
Jun 1, 2018, 4:02 AM
No they haven't for at least 15 years, I'm not sure when it was Canadian Airlines, but not since at least the merger.

I have a feeling DUB will go mainline with a 330 or something, and maybe rotate with YUL. I don't think they will want to let that route go, but we shall see!

In the past Canadian Airlines and Air France were close partners. That was before the existence of alliances. I don't know if they ever went to Paris.

When One World came along, Canadian moved to being a strong partner with its OneWorld alliance partners.

LeftCoaster
Jun 1, 2018, 6:47 PM
And there is nothing weird about the lingo.

If I got into a taxi and the cabby said "I'll take you directly home", then stopped at his pals house 10 minutes out of the way for a cup of tea, then took me home, I would say he did not fulfill his promise.

The airline industry is the only group on earth that stops somewhere not necessarily on the way and still calls it direct.

It is most certainly weird.

lubicon
Jun 1, 2018, 7:16 PM
I know the weird airline lingo definition, but that's hardly direct.... It's 800 miles out of the way.

That is the very definition of direct. Non stop is another thing altogether.

deasine
Jun 1, 2018, 9:36 PM
I know the weird airline lingo definition, but that's hardly direct.... It's 800 miles out of the way.

It is direct, just not non-stop.

I assume though that the "same-plane" benefits to customers won't really be realized in the inbound direction as I assume they will be operating it as a domestic flight requiring customers to disembark, clear, and re-embark again. It doesn't seem like AC will be operating this as an "international" leg.

LeftCoaster
Jun 1, 2018, 9:36 PM
For gods sake I'm aware of the industry definition of a direct flight, I'm commenting on how weird the airline definition of 'direct' is, when that flight is anything but direct.

If someone told me draw a direct line between two dots I sure wouldn't do this:

https://i.imgur.com/w9LaikH.png

The only person on earth who would describe this as a direct line is an airline executive.

deasine
Jun 1, 2018, 9:40 PM
Apologies for whatever reason I didn't read the last post of the thread.

nname
Jun 2, 2018, 1:10 AM
Hope you're right about KIX, considering NGO is almost certainly getting the axe hopefully service to KIX doesn't take a big hit, or hit at all.

I checked the seat map for the first 2 flights of the season to NGO... They are... pretty bad right now. I guess most people haven't pick their seat yet? But... there are much more empty seat than taken seat in Y, and PY have a load of 1 or 2...

The third flight was much better though.

osirisboy
Jun 2, 2018, 2:06 AM
If I got into a taxi and the cabby said "I'll take you directly home", then stopped at his pals house 10 minutes out of the way for a cup of tea, then took me home, I would say he did not fulfill his promise.

The airline industry is the only group on earth that stops somewhere not necessarily on the way and still calls it direct.

It is most certainly weird.

I actually never knew this. That's misleading advertising and makes no sense

casper
Jun 2, 2018, 2:30 AM
I actually never knew this. That's misleading advertising and makes no sense

The passenger railway I believe uses similar terminology. Not certain about bus lines.

When aviation first started, you could not fly cross country non-stop. However you had direct service. Here an early Air Canada schedule. Toronto to Vancouver involved 6 stops.
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/tc40/tc40-2.jpg
(Link from this collection http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/ac.htm).

These direct flights as well as the longer milk-runs are rare these days. In the 90s I regularly would fly Vancouver-Ottawa (with a stop in Winnipeg) on an Air Canada DC-9. That aircraft can't cover that distance non-stop and the timing of the non-stop flight never work for me.

WestJet use to have a milk run until about 5 years ago that I would use from London Ontario-Winnipeg-Saskatoon-Calgary-Vancouver-Prince George. The next morning it would turn about and do the reverse. I was regularly flying between London and Saskatoon. Best option by the way and faster than any other run.

Foreign airlines sometimes also do these. I flew the Chicago-Regina-Saskatoon flight a few times. Operated by a United connector, they did not carry local passengers between Regina and Saskatoon. For that reason you cleared Canadian customers in Saskatoon. Again a much better option than having to deal with a connecting flight.

Alexcaban
Jun 2, 2018, 4:16 AM
I checked the seat map for the first 2 flights of the season to NGO... They are... pretty bad right now. I guess most people haven't pick their seat yet? But... there are much more empty seat than taken seat in Y, and PY have a load of 1 or 2...

The third flight was much better though.

I can confirm, June 2nd flight has less then 100 people booked, but its still early in the season.

However I really don't see NGO sticking around after this summer.

Johnny Aussie
Jun 2, 2018, 6:37 AM
Meanwhile....

AC37 is in the air on its way here!

YVR-MEL is now connected year-round :tup:

Looks like it might touch down at Tullamarine just before 0800 our time tomorrow... don’t think I can be stuffed heading out this time.

Great news... now if we can get YVR and SIN connected all three of my homes will be connected with nonstop (direct :haha:) flights :P

And it looks like their inaugural ceremony at YVR had a cake trying to replicate our laneways in Melbourne? I think that's what that is supposed to be.

YYCguys
Jun 2, 2018, 4:03 PM
Great news... now if we can get YVR and SIN connected all three of my homes will be connected with nonstop (direct :haha:) flights :P

THREE homes?!?! My goodness, lucky and fortunate you! I can barely make ends meet to keep one home, let alone three!

(Sorry, off topic...but I am duely impressed with JA!)

Johnny Aussie
Jun 3, 2018, 6:47 PM
And here is Melbourne Airport’s Facebook post and video about the new YVR-MEL year-round flights. Both airports longest nonstop route.

Nice to always see how the other end of a new route sees it. :D

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2174149525945330&id=213235072036795&__tn__=%2As%2As-R

SpongeG
Jun 3, 2018, 8:52 PM
i'm flying that route in july

trofirhen
Jun 4, 2018, 12:05 AM
i'm flying that route in july

Great!! Given Melbourne's top ranking, in transit, parks, architecture, lighting, name it ... /// could I ask you take some pictures if you are able? If yes, an opportunity to learn.

Johnny Aussie
Jun 4, 2018, 12:41 AM
i'm flying that route in july

Excellent! Coming for work or holiday?

Hope you enjoy your trip either way. I’ve been here over 14 years and it keeps growing on me. Miss Canada a lot but I think I’m here for good... who knows really :shrug:

SpongeG
Jun 4, 2018, 12:46 AM
going to Perth to see family and meet family I've never met, Will spend 2 days in Melbourne fly to Perth, spend time there, fly to Sydney spend time there and then fly back Sydney - Vancouver. I had to match the booking the travel agent made for my mom, It was only a few weeks later I decided to go too. Not my choice of route but it will be good.

Johnny Aussie
Jun 4, 2018, 1:01 AM
going to Perth to see family and meet family I've never met, Will spend 2 days in Melbourne fly to Perth, spend time there, fly to Sydney spend time there and then fly back Sydney - Vancouver. I had to match the booking the travel agent made for my mom, It was only a few weeks later I decided to go too. Not my choice of route but it will be good.

Fantastic. You’ll rack up quite a few miles! Good to support the direct flight at least one direction :tup:

Let me know if you have any questions... happy to help :)