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osirisboy
Aug 3, 2018, 2:35 PM
Yvr has 2017 listed at 313,000 tons. Why the discrepancy?

thenoflyzone
Aug 3, 2018, 2:42 PM
Yvr has 2017 listed at 313,000 tons. Why the discrepancy?

Airport authority personnel count themselves as passenger and cargo every time they fly around. Helps boost the numbers....;)
And since most of them are full of shit, it weighs heavy ! Hence the big discrepancy !

On a more serious note, I think StatsCan doesn't have all the info from all airlines. YVRAA does.
Similar discrepancy happens with the passenger numbers. Airport authorities usually have higher numbers than StatsCan.

nname
Aug 3, 2018, 8:12 PM
Flair's winter domestic schedule out of YVR

Daily YVR-YYC-YWG
Daily YVR-YEG-YYZ

No more service to YLW
No more direct flight to YWG

Johnny Aussie
Aug 3, 2018, 10:01 PM
Flair's winter domestic schedule out of YVR

Daily YVR-YYC-YWG
Daily YVR-YEG-YYZ

No more service to YLW
No more direct flight to YWG

Yeah YLW cut from YVR and YYC.
YYJ, YHZ and YHM cut as destinations altogether.
Drastic reduction in YEG too.
As for YWG still direct just the two weekly non stops are gone for winter.

Domestic winter flying in Canada just too weak to warrant all those flights. Now to see what they have up their sleeves for sun flights this winter.

Hot Rod
Aug 5, 2018, 6:09 AM
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/279648/air-new-zealand-adds-boeing-787-service-to-vancouver-in-nw18/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=the-hub&utm_campaign=the-hub-AME&utm_content=the-hub-20180720

Johnny Aussie
Aug 6, 2018, 9:55 AM
AC replacing YVR-HKG with a 789 from 4 Nov - 9 March

Significant capacity decrease from 450 seats to 298.

Perhaps just a wee too big a plane for that time of year especially with CX increasing and now HX on the route.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/279921/air-canada-w18-vancouver-hong-kong-aircraft-changes/

Gordon
Aug 6, 2018, 3:19 PM
ccording to yVr.ca aC wil be back to a 773 for the summer 2019

once the East apron remote stands are available are e likely to see some of the red-eye Asian departures switch to daytime departures?

Alexcaban
Aug 6, 2018, 4:45 PM
AC replacing YVR-HKG with a 789 from 4 Nov - 9 March

Significant capacity decrease from 450 seats to 298.

Perhaps just a wee too big a plane for that time of year especially with CX increasing and now HX on the route.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/279921/air-canada-w18-vancouver-hong-kong-aircraft-changes/

Well the frame needs to be going somewhere else?
Any ideas, YVR-SYD?

whatnext
Aug 6, 2018, 6:44 PM
Instead of spending money on a forest of speed bumps, YVR should be spending some money on irrigation for their landscaping. Half the trees and shrubs on Grant McConachie look to be in distress from this dry spell.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 6, 2018, 10:25 PM
ccording to yVr.ca aC wil be back to a 773 for the summer 2019

once the East apron remote stands are available are e likely to see some of the red-eye Asian departures switch to daytime departures?

Definitely a route that can support the big bird in the summer but the seasonality is real.

A lot of those red eyes are timed that way for onward connections in MNL, TPE, PEK, PVG, HKG etc. not because of gate space.

Well the frame needs to be going somewhere else?
Any ideas, YVR-SYD?

Yes it does. I think with 3 Australian routes now the 77L is a perfect fit for SYD, 789 for MEL and 788 to BNE. There aren’t very many routes that can support the 77W out of YVR in the winter. Unless they move it to YYZ. Can’t really see any routes out of anywhere else in Canada that can support the 450 seater in winter. YUL has CDG already and YVR will have LHR and PEK. Maybe more trans cons?

nname
Aug 7, 2018, 10:05 AM
Seems like in this week's schedule update, AC had loaded the summer schedule for YVR-YZF. The route is now year-round with 1x daily in the summer and 2x daily in winter.

This is the only route change AC made in the past 2 weeks for S19:

+++AC 8834 YZF - YVR

CareerShow
Aug 7, 2018, 3:49 PM
PEK reverts back to a 789 in the winter...so it appears we are down to one 77w in the winter time...I would be curious to see the load factor stats on all these long haul routes, they are hopefully good as the yields, based on the prices, must be low

Johnny Aussie
Aug 7, 2018, 7:44 PM
PEK reverts back to a 789 in the winter...so it appears we are down to one 77w in the winter time...I would be curious to see the load factor stats on all these long haul routes, they are hopefully good as the yields, based on the prices, must be low

Not sure about that. YVR-PEK still showing daily 77W year-round.

zahav
Aug 8, 2018, 7:16 AM
I chose a random week in Nov and PEK is a 789 (at least on OAG).

This is obviously a reaction to Hong Kong Airlines and Cathay's increase. YVR-HKG is a big market but still has its limits. If reducing to a 789 means we get more from the other HK carriers then its worth it. Reminds me of when AC changed MEX to a mainline 319. Was a daily seat reduction from 136 down to 120. But we kept a daily MEX and also got tons more carriers on the route, so was a good compromise. Many cities get routes cut or reduced fairly often (YYC for example is vulnerable to a lot of these cuts if demand slacks at all)

Johnny Aussie
Aug 8, 2018, 8:41 AM
I chose a random week in Nov and PEK is a 789 (at least on OAG).

This is obviously a reaction to Hong Kong Airlines and Cathay's increase. YVR-HKG is a big market but still has its limits. If reducing to a 789 means we get more from the other HK carriers then its worth it. Reminds me of when AC changed MEX to a mainline 319. Was a daily seat reduction from 136 down to 120. But we kept a daily MEX and also got tons more carriers on the route, so was a good compromise. Many cities get routes cut or reduced fairly often (YYC for example is vulnerable to a lot of these cuts if demand slacks at all)

You are right YVR-PEK is a 789 from 27 Oct - 30 Nov only.

Wouldn’t get tooo excited about that. November is probably the weakest month for air travel.

zahav
Aug 9, 2018, 7:30 AM
True, and it isn't concerning to me, and shouldn't be to anyone. I actually am glad AC is sacrificing by downgrading to a 789 if it's due to competition. The alternative would be them killing the competition and we lose HK Airlines and CX scales down, which I wouldn't want.

I feel like AC should add YQB or YHZ next year. I don't want to sound whiny, but AC added YUL-YYJ, YYZ-YKA, YYZ-YCD etc but yet we don't have a flight to YQB or YHZ on AC, which has a far bigger population than any of the cities AC added east-west service to. And I know there are way more factors at play other than population etc etc but it's just kind of annoying that AC launched these western non stops (essentially undermining the YVR connecting hub, even operating from YXX!) yet forces us to always connect in YYZ or YUL for eastern routes. Would be very curious to see the demand between YYZ and YKA and if its more than YVR-YHZ, somehow I doubt it. I know its just business, but somehow it still feels odd that AC is OK with limiting domestic connections in YVR and instead going non stop to majorly secondary markets here, but we don't have YHM, YQB, YHZ, or anything

nname
Aug 9, 2018, 8:50 AM
True, and it isn't concerning to me, and shouldn't be to anyone. I actually am glad AC is sacrificing by downgrading to a 789 if it's due to competition. The alternative would be them killing the competition and we lose HK Airlines and CX scales down, which I wouldn't want.

I feel like AC should add YQB or YHZ next year. I don't want to sound whiny, but AC added YUL-YYJ, YYZ-YKA, YYZ-YCD etc but yet we don't have a flight to YQB or YHZ on AC, which has a far bigger population than any of the cities AC added east-west service to. And I know there are way more factors at play other than population etc etc but it's just kind of annoying that AC launched these western non stops (essentially undermining the YVR connecting hub, even operating from YXX!) yet forces us to always connect in YYZ or YUL for eastern routes. Would be very curious to see the demand between YYZ and YKA and if its more than YVR-YHZ, somehow I doubt it. I know its just business, but somehow it still feels odd that AC is OK with limiting domestic connections in YVR and instead going non stop to majorly secondary markets here, but we don't have YHM, YQB, YHZ, or anything

Well, I guess it's the same as WS launching routes from YYC to secondary city in BC, but there's not a route from YVR to any secondary cities in AB.

Would Terrace to Calgary really that much higher demand than.. say Vancouver to Lethbridge?

YVR currently have the same amount of destination in mainland China as Canadian cities outside of BC, whether you count direct (13) or year-round non-stop (9). For a comparison, Calgary have 10 year-round destinations in BC alone.

zahav
Aug 10, 2018, 8:20 AM
Well, I guess it's the same as WS launching routes from YYC to secondary city in BC, but there's not a route from YVR to any secondary cities in AB.

Would Terrace to Calgary really that much higher demand than.. say Vancouver to Lethbridge?

YVR currently have the same amount of destination in mainland China as Canadian cities outside of BC, whether you count direct (13) or year-round non-stop (9). For a comparison, Calgary have 10 year-round destinations in BC alone.

Yes exactly, you are right on my point. I am not complaining since I like the fact so many secondary or lower BC cities and towns have great connections, it speaks a lot about the vitality and appeal of these small destinations. The fact that Kamloops, Kelowna, Abbotsford, Vancouver, Nanaimo, and Victoria all have flights to Toronto is pretty good for our province. But it doesn't help YVR, it undermines it. The fact that all of BC's secondary cities can connect direct to the rest of the AC network without YVR is not a bonus for the airport. AC will do anything humanly possible to feed its YYZ hub but doesn't seem to care whatsoever about feeding its YVR hub in the same way. So far it hasn't seemed to hurt YVR. In fact our domestic traffic growth has been quite astonishing this year especially, without any obvious reasons. 7.2% YTD growth, compared to 3.8% for YUL and 5.6% for YYC. We were actually 2nd to YYC for total domestic traffic for many years, up until very recently. Our overall airport traffic has always been higher due to transborder+international included, but domestic only they were higher. But the last 2 years we've pulled ahead and now YTD we are noticably higher. Makes you wonder how much higher those numbers would be if all of those BC cities had to connect in YVR

thenoflyzone
Aug 10, 2018, 12:19 PM
ue, and it isn't concerning to me, and shouldn't be to anyone. I actually am glad AC is sacrificing by downgrading to a 789 if it's due to competition. The alternative would be them killing the competition and we lose HK Airlines and CX scales down, which I wouldn't want.

I feel like AC should add YQB or YHZ next year. I don't want to sound whiny, but AC added YUL-YYJ, YYZ-YKA, YYZ-YCD etc but yet we don't have a flight to YQB or YHZ on AC,

With the arrival of more Max 8's, a seasonal AC YVR-YHZ should happen. Not sure about YQB. Let's see if WestJet's new YYC-YQB sticks around.

I find it weird that statscan has up to date O&D data between Canadian and US cities, but none for domestic city pairs.

Gordon
Aug 10, 2018, 9:17 PM
How many remote stands are connected to Gate D59 and Gate E85?

Lancaster
Aug 11, 2018, 3:01 AM
Yes exactly, you are right on my point. I am not complaining since I like the fact so many secondary or lower BC cities and towns have great connections, it speaks a lot about the vitality and appeal of these small destinations. The fact that Kamloops, Kelowna, Abbotsford, Vancouver, Nanaimo, and Victoria all have flights to Toronto is pretty good for our province. But it doesn't help YVR, it undermines it. The fact that all of BC's secondary cities can connect direct to the rest of the AC network without YVR is not a bonus for the airport. AC will do anything humanly possible to feed its YYZ hub but doesn't seem to care whatsoever about feeding its YVR hub in the same way. So far it hasn't seemed to hurt YVR. In fact our domestic traffic growth has been quite astonishing this year especially, without any obvious reasons. 7.2% YTD growth, compared to 3.8% for YUL and 5.6% for YYC. We were actually 2nd to YYC for total domestic traffic for many years, up until very recently. Our overall airport traffic has always been higher due to transborder+international included, but domestic only they were higher. But the last 2 years we've pulled ahead and now YTD we are noticably higher. Makes you wonder how much higher those numbers would be if all of those BC cities had to connect in YVR

Agreed that it can feel like AC is focused solely on developing YUL and YYZ before they even remember YVR exists (unless it's serving a destination that can't be effectively reached by the East coast hubs). But make no mistake, YVR is basically the end of the line in Canada. It would be some serious backtracking for passengers in the interior of BC to fly West before going to YYZ or YUL. It would basically be handing all eastbound travel to WS to connect out of YYC. This at least keeps them competitive as they throttle down operations at YYC.

Undercutting YVR this year by offering direct service between YYZ-YYJ/YCD and YUL-YYJ is baffling. That would be like YVR having direct YQB, YXU, YGK, YYG, YHZ, etc. Though I'm most intrigued by the strategy of adding Asia flights out of YUL. It undercuts YVR, and especially the YYZ hub. I don't understand the logic.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 11, 2018, 3:28 AM
Agreed that it can feel like AC is focused solely on developing YUL and YYZ before they even remember YVR exists (unless it's serving a destination that can't be effectively reached by the East coast hubs). But make no mistake, YVR is basically the end of the line in Canada. It would be some serious backtracking for passengers in the interior of BC to fly West before going to YYZ or YUL. It would basically be handing all eastbound travel to WS to connect out of YYC. This at least keeps them competitive as they throttle down operations at YYC.

Undercutting YVR this year by offering direct service between YYZ-YYJ/YCD and YUL-YYJ is baffling. That would be like YVR having direct YQB, YXU, YGK, YYG, YHZ, etc. Though I'm most intrigued by the strategy of adding Asia flights out of YUL. It undercuts YVR, and especially the YYZ hub. I don't understand the logic.

Logic? It’s called market size and simple geography. The market between YYZ (and points east) and YCD/YYJ/YKA is clearly larger than YVR-YKF/YQB etc. Any flights from YVR to secondary cities in Central and Eastern Canada will almost entirely rely on O&D with very minimal transfer traffic on either end.
Geography hasn’t changed for decades... same discussions held in the 1980s. Nothing has changed... YVR is and always will be the end of the line. YVR does have a great location for Asian traffic but those Eastern cities you mention are easily reached through YYZ. Again, just basic geography at play.
YUL-Asia means that market is large enough now to sustain nonstop flights to the three largest Asian markets being NRT, PEK and PVG. There are probably very few Asian markets left that would be a viable route from YUL. Maybe HKG?

Are you forgetting Air Canada flies nonstop from YVR to LHR, DUB, FRA, CDG and ZRH? Aren’t these flights “under cutting” YYZ and YUL?

Does anybody honestly think that AC has “neglected” YVR in the last three years? It’s been nothing but one route addition after another.

As for secondary cities in BC being connected through YYC - there’s that evil geography wheeling its hand again. The traffic flows are mainly within Canada. All these cities are obviously connected to YVR as well for the strong O&D plus some decent connectivity. But what traffic flows would YVR be able to garner with links to YQL, YXH, YMM and YQU. Basically O&D and maybe some Asian and US traffic. Otherwise those pax would be back tracking. Interestingly enough YYC will only be connected to YQL, YXH, YMM and YQU after AC pulls out of YQF so that’s only 4 secondary cities in Alberta connected with air service to YYC other than some small towns with charter like services.

So despite all the disadvantages YVR has as a domestic hub.... not bad
Global reach huh?

whatnext
Aug 11, 2018, 6:59 AM
Slightly off topic but check out this video of the Horizon Q400 stolen from SeaTac tonight (turn sound down if at work!)
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10212530577644892&id=1396687468&_rdr

Lancaster
Aug 11, 2018, 7:00 AM
Logic? It’s called market size and simple geography. The market between YYZ (and points east) and YCD/YYJ/YKA is clearly larger than YVR-YKF/YQB etc. Any flights from YVR to secondary cities in Central and Eastern Canada will almost entirely rely on O&D with very minimal transfer traffic on either end.
Geography hasn’t changed for decades... same discussions held in the 1980s. Nothing has changed... YVR is and always will be the end of the line. YVR does have a great location for Asian traffic but those Eastern cities you mention are easily reached through YYZ. Again, just basic geography at play.
YUL-Asia means that market is large enough now to sustain nonstop flights to the three largest Asian markets being NRT, PEK and PVG. There are probably very few Asian markets left that would be a viable route from YUL. Maybe HKG?

Are you forgetting Air Canada flies nonstop from YVR to LHR, DUB, FRA, CDG and ZRH? Aren’t these flights “under cutting” YYZ and YUL?

Does anybody honestly think that AC has “neglected” YVR in the last three years? It’s been nothing but one route addition after another.

As for secondary cities in BC being connected through YYC - there’s that evil geography wheeling its hand again. The traffic flows are mainly within Canada. All these cities are obviously connected to YVR as well for the strong O&D plus some decent connectivity. But what traffic flows would YVR be able to garner with links to YQL, YXH, YMM and YQU. Basically O&D and maybe some Asian and US traffic. Otherwise those pax would be back tracking. Interestingly enough YYC will only be connected to YQL, YXH, YMM and YQU after AC pulls out of YQF so that’s only 4 secondary cities in Alberta connected with air service to YYC other than some small towns with charter like services.

So despite all the disadvantages YVR has as a domestic hub.... not bad
Global reach huh?

I conveyed some bad tone evidently.

I can see why people would see a consolidation of Rouge to the East hubs, more added routes in total out of YUL/YYZ, and taking on eastern BC routes as them slighting YVR. I commented that the eastern BC destinations are all about geography, and that should not be a surprise. I have no angst against it.

I am surprised that AC would operate the YCD/YYJ routes from YUL/YYZ, just as I would be baffled if AC operated a YVR-YQB route. I don't think AC should operate a YVR-YQB route, because geography! You made a great point, I am surprised they have added LHR/CDG/FRA/ZRH frequencies because YYZ/YUL is there. Much like I am surprised that YUL operates flights to the major Asian hubs when YYZ and YVR have similar offerings.

I just don't understand having two major hubs that are 500 kms apart. That was my comment on "not understanding the logic" Would you not want to consolidate? I am not asking to make a statement, I'm asking cause I don't know.

Please don't get me wrong, I think AC's development in the last few years is excellent for plenty of reasons. I genuinely don't care which airports gets what service and when. I just don't understand how the system works some times. But I'm happy to learn! :)

casper
Aug 11, 2018, 6:11 PM
I conveyed some bad tone evidently.

I can see why people would see a consolidation of Rouge to the East hubs, more added routes in total out of YUL/YYZ, and taking on eastern BC routes as them slighting YVR. I commented that the eastern BC destinations are all about geography, and that should not be a surprise. I have no angst against it.

I am surprised that AC would operate the YCD/YYJ routes from YUL/YYZ, just as I would be baffled if AC operated a YVR-YQB route. I don't think AC should operate a YVR-YQB route, because geography! You made a great point, I am surprised they have added LHR/CDG/FRA/ZRH frequencies because YYZ/YUL is there. Much like I am surprised that YUL operates flights to the major Asian hubs when YYZ and YVR have similar offerings.

I just don't understand having two major hubs that are 500 kms apart. That was my comment on "not understanding the logic" Would you not want to consolidate? I am not asking to make a statement, I'm asking cause I don't know.

Please don't get me wrong, I think AC's development in the last few years is excellent for plenty of reasons. I genuinely don't care which airports gets what service and when. I just don't understand how the system works some times. But I'm happy to learn! :)

I spend a lot of time in YYJ and YVR. Frequently flying out of both airports. The reason there has been a YYJ-YYZ flight for years is there is a lot of traffic between these two cities. A good percentage of the flight is not connecting. The flight to Montreal is fantastic it removes the need to connect somewhere to get to Montreal. It also connects to a number of the European flights from montreal that are heading to destinations not served from Toronto.

The YYJ-YVR is doing well. It is increasing a Q400. It is not unusually for most flights to go out full and to have hourly if not better service.

thenoflyzone
Aug 11, 2018, 8:12 PM
Much like I am surprised that YUL operates flights to the major Asian hubs when YYZ and YVR have similar offerings.

I just don't understand having two major hubs that are 500 kms apart.

Me too. They should just de-hub YUL and leave a market of 4 million people to find another hub carrier. WS is keen on serving Quebec. Maybe they would take over most routes..

:koko:

btw, UA operates hubs at IAD and EWR, less than 400 km apart. Same for LH, with FRA and MUC. DL operates two hub airports in NYC. LGA and JFK. Maybe they should just dehub LGA?

Point is, each hub serves a purpose. When the O&D is there at both locations, distance between hubs takes a backseat. Airlines are in the business of making money. They go where the money is. And in Canada, most of the money is in YYZ, YUL, YVR and YYC. Do you really expect AC to avoid the Montreal market simply because it is 500 km from YYZ?

Gordon
Aug 11, 2018, 10:19 PM
New York can handle multiple hub airports because of it's large population base.

Laguardia is principally a domestc airport & JFK is the largest Int'l airport in Metro new york.

When the East Apron remote stands are complete will it not be more efficient to use them instead of de-planing at D48 & 49 & moving the plane to another gate.

mezzanine
Aug 11, 2018, 10:19 PM
Point is, each hub serves a purpose. When the O&D is there at both locations, distance between hubs takes a backseat. Airlines are in the business of making money. They go where the money is. And in Canada, most of the money is in YYZ, YUL, YVR and YYC. Do you really expect AC to avoid the Montreal market simply because it is 500 km from YYZ?

I partly agree, but it s not all O+D - much of the new AC growth is them trying to grow their 6th freedom service to the USA. 2 AC hubs by the eastern seaboard of the USA would make sense to me. I do appreciate growth at YVR, but I also think there is potential for even more at YVR (regular IAD, BOS, ZRH, FRA AC service, MIA, service to smaller centres of the PNW, even SLC)

With the next world/USA downturn, it would be interesting to see what routes shake out.

thenoflyzone
Aug 12, 2018, 12:14 AM
I partly agree, but it s not all O+D - much of the new AC growth is them trying to grow their 6th freedom service to the USA. 2 AC hubs by the eastern seaboard of the USA would make sense to me. I do appreciate growth at YVR, but I also think there is potential for even more at YVR (regular IAD, BOS, ZRH, FRA AC service, MIA, service to smaller centres of the PNW, even SLC)

With the next world/USA downturn, it would be interesting to see what routes shake out.

YYZ traffic is 70% O&D.
YUL traffic is 80% O&D
YVR is in the 80s too I believe.

AC in 2016 accounted for less than 1% of all International traffic to/from the US. Yes, even a 1% increase represents billions of dollars in revenue for AC, but don't kid yourself, without the O&D, a lot of routes AC has wont survive.

thenoflyzone
Aug 12, 2018, 12:15 AM
I partly agree, but it s not all O+D - much of the new AC growth is them trying to grow their 6th freedom service to the USA. 2 AC hubs by the eastern seaboard of the USA would make sense to me. I do appreciate growth at YVR, but I also think there is potential for even more at YVR (regular IAD, BOS, ZRH, FRA AC service, MIA, service to smaller centres of the PNW, even SLC)

With the next world/USA downturn, it would be interesting to see what routes shake out.

YYZ traffic is 70% O&D.
YUL traffic is 80% O&D
YVR is in the 80s too I believe.

AC in 2016 accounted for less than 1% of all International traffic to/from the US. Yes, even a 1% increase represents billions of dollars in revenue for AC, but don't kid yourself, without the O&D, a lot of routes AC has wont survive. Not every airport/airline has the cost structure to mimick DXB or ATL.

mezzanine
Aug 12, 2018, 7:41 AM
YYZ traffic is 70% O&D.
YUL traffic is 80% O&D
YVR is in the 80s too I believe.


% of what traffic? all aggregate traffic? if so, that doesn't say much. I suspect many low-margin carribean AC routes from eastern canada are predominately O+D with no 6th freedom traffic.


AC in 2016 accounted for less than 1% of all International traffic to/from the US. Yes, even a 1% increase represents billions of dollars in revenue for AC, but don't kid yourself, without the O&D, a lot of routes AC has wont survive. Not every airport/airline has the cost structure to mimick DXB or ATL.

I agree O+D is important, but it's not the only factor. c'mon, for the past 5 years, AC has telegraphed to its investors that much of its growth and investment is focused on 6th freedom flights from the USA.

Airlines go a long way to make their route planning opaque, but it's public record (http://www.cacairports.ca/sites/default/files/CAC_CTA_Review_Submission.pdf) that 90% of the pax on the YYZ-CPH flight is connecting, at least in 2015.

Connecting passengers can fill from 25% to 50% (or more) of flights and consequently increase the number of flight frequencies to major international markets and stimulate services to new destinations that Canada would not be able to otherwise support due to its smaller market base. The success of certain nonstop international routes is entirely dependent on connecting traffic – for example, 90% of the traffic between Toronto Pearson and Copenhagen is connecting.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 13, 2018, 9:25 PM
Westjet’s winter schedules really a blah for YVR.

An extra daily flight to YCD? That’s about it on the upside.

YUL being dropped for the winter and MEX is getting chopped (from YYC too). I just couldn’t see all those additional flights being successful. That leaves AM, AC and 4O which is probably more balanced.

Everything else is status quo really.

Their schedule release is all about pumping up YYC. Really solidifying YYC as their largest hub.

LeftCoaster
Aug 13, 2018, 11:47 PM
Definitely strengthening my original thought that YVR will not see the bulk of the western based 787s.

Westjet is betting on YYC going forward, it's a bit of a gamble given the economy there and the likely slow recovery in jobs/employment income.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 14, 2018, 12:34 AM
Definitely strengthening my original thought that YVR will not see the bulk of the western based 787s.

Westjet is betting on YYC going forward, it's a bit of a gamble given the economy there and the likely slow recovery in jobs/employment income.

Yes a very bold and aggressive move at their main hub. Certainly a warning shot to Flair and a direct attack against AC at YYC. Their hub at YYC is definitely approaching critical mass. They are going to heavily rely on connecting traffic to fill all these planes!

excel
Aug 14, 2018, 5:08 PM
The timing is perfect as I am moving to Calgary this October ;)

trofirhen
Aug 14, 2018, 5:43 PM
Yes a very bold and aggressive move at their main hub. Certainly a warning shot to Flair and a direct attack against AC at YYC. Their hub at YYC is definitely approaching critical mass. They are going to heavily rely on connecting traffic to fill all these planes!

It's great to see the WS YYC hub (and by extension Western Canada) gaining more "clout" in air travel. Will any of the increase at YYC "spill over" a little to YVR?
Westjet talked about 787 flights to Asia and to South America. Would this be done through YYC, or will YVR get a slice of the action, too?

LeftCoaster
Aug 14, 2018, 6:33 PM
It's great to see the WS YYC hub (and by extension Western Canada) gaining more "clout" in air travel. Will any of the increase at YYC "spill over" a little to YVR?
Westjet talked about 787 flights to Asia and to South America. Would this be done through YYC, or will YVR get a slice of the action, too?

Westjet's YYC hub's growth comes almost entirely to the detriment of YVR.

CloudInspector
Aug 14, 2018, 7:01 PM
It's great to see the WS YYC hub (and by extension Western Canada) gaining more "clout" in air travel. Will any of the increase at YYC "spill over" a little to YVR?
Westjet talked about 787 flights to Asia and to South America. Would this be done through YYC, or will YVR get a slice of the action, too?

While Calgary makes an ideal domestic transfer hub, I don’t believe YYC has the market size to support multiple daily flights to Asia and South America.

Firebrand
Aug 14, 2018, 7:24 PM
Why is WestJet so obsessed of having YYC as the main hub for Asia-Pacific flights and not YVR?

LeftCoaster
Aug 14, 2018, 7:37 PM
They aren't. They have made literally 0 commitment to where the 787s will be based or where they will be flying.

I think most Asia service they do will be from YVR, but I just don't think they'll do much Asia service.

CloudInspector
Aug 14, 2018, 7:59 PM
They aren't. They have made literally 0 commitment to where the 787s will be based or where they will be flying.

I think most Asia service they do will be from YVR, but I just don't think they'll do much Asia service.

I think the first tail will be based in YYC (no surprise really), but Gregg’s Vancouver Board of Trade presentation was a good indication of their desire to grow YVR, which they’ve done quite a bit of in the past few years. The “potential route map” looked like Canada 3000 and Canadi>n merged!

Firebrand
Aug 14, 2018, 8:02 PM
I think the first tail will be based in YYC (no surprise really)

Is it because YYC has a larger capacity for 787s, lower costs, or is it just to please Albertans?

CloudInspector
Aug 14, 2018, 8:14 PM
Is it because YYC has a larger capacity for 787s, lower costs, or is it just to please Albertans?

Haha, I suspect it’s because everything from the headquarters to the senior pilots to the maintenance are based there. WestJet has been actively promoting their “three hubs” of YVR, YYC and YYZ.

Firebrand
Aug 14, 2018, 8:40 PM
Haha, I suspect it’s because everything from the headquarters to the senior pilots to the maintenance are based there. WestJet has been actively promoting their “three hubs” of YVR, YYC and YYZ.

My dad doesn’t get why YEG isn’t a big enough market for international flights (the US doesn’t count) because he lives in Edmonton and wants transferless flights. He sometimes whines about flying to YYC first, then fly elsewhere. (:shrug:) I’m guessing he wants YEG to be WestJet’s “fourth” hub.

Cage
Aug 14, 2018, 9:48 PM
Why is WestJet so obsessed of having YYC as the main hub for Asia-Pacific flights and not YVR?

Primary reason is competition. There is tonnes of options at YVR, plus AC has all ready filled the holes in their network.

Secondly, AC has quietly signaled their willingness to pull down YYC services rather than fight to the death for market share. At YYZ, YUL, and YVR they would rather lose money than give up the route.

Thirdly, Asia is not like the rest of the world for open and free route rights. There is still a premium on the novel route application. Consequently WS might have better luck getting YYC-PEK than YVR-PEK.

Cage
Aug 14, 2018, 9:49 PM
My dad doesn’t get why YEG isn’t a big enough market for international flights (the US doesn’t count) because he lives in Edmonton and wants transferless flights. He sometimes whines about flying to YYC first, then fly elsewhere. (:shrug:) I’m guessing he wants YEG to be WestJet’s “fourth” hub.

YEG big problem is yield. The local traffic demands nonstop services but will not pay a premium for the extra service.

TheGreatestX
Aug 14, 2018, 10:16 PM
My dad doesn’t get why YEG isn’t a big enough market for international flights (the US doesn’t count) because he lives in Edmonton and wants transferless flights. He sometimes whines about flying to YYC first, then fly elsewhere. (:shrug:) I’m guessing he wants YEG to be WestJet’s “fourth” hub.

While YEG isn't a hub for WestJet, it is by far their 4th largest market and they continue to grow it (through mainline, Encore and Swoop). Every press release includes additions to YYC, YYZ, YVR and YEG. In fact in the latest round, they added more to YEG than to YVR.

casper
Aug 15, 2018, 1:16 AM
While YEG isn't a hub for WestJet, it is by far their 4th largest market and they continue to grow it (through mainline, Encore and Swoop). Every press release includes additions to YYC, YYZ, YVR and YEG. In fact in the latest round, they added more to YEG than to YVR.

swoop operates independently of WS from a passenger perspective. they are basically giving up on Edmonton being a major transfer huber

Chikinlittle
Aug 15, 2018, 3:07 AM
They aren't. They have made literally 0 commitment to where the 787s will be based or where they will be flying.

I think most Asia service they do will be from YVR, but I just don't think they'll do much Asia service.

I agree. In an ideal world, I'm sure WS would prefer to keep everything as central as possible in YYC, especially being the 'home town' carrier.

I feel like we've seen them try to keep as much in YYC as possible, but we end up seeing them hubbing out of YVR a lot more than I believe their ideal plans would see them.

CloudInspector
Aug 15, 2018, 5:01 AM
Primary reason is competition. There is tonnes of options at YVR, plus AC has all ready filled the holes in their network.

Secondly, AC has quietly signaled their willingness to pull down YYC services rather than fight to the death for market share. At YYZ, YUL, and YVR they would rather lose money than give up the route.

Thirdly, Asia is not like the rest of the world for open and free route rights. There is still a premium on the novel route application. Consequently WS might have better luck getting YYC-PEK than YVR-PEK.

All very good points. However, the YVR to Asia market is much, much larger and geographically speaking, it’s a natural connecting point for WS, similar to their Hawaiian operations.

I honestly think we’ll see service from both cities to Asia.

Gordon
Aug 15, 2018, 5:32 AM
as far as WS to China, how much space is available in the china Canada Bi-lateral?

It would b nice to see West Jet try a South - east asia Asian route from YVR.

There is a good picture of YVR C & D piers including D62 on vancouver.ctvnews.ca

Johnny Aussie
Aug 15, 2018, 6:54 AM
While YEG isn't a hub for WestJet, it is by far their 4th largest market and they continue to grow it (through mainline, Encore and Swoop). Every press release includes additions to YYC, YYZ, YVR and YEG. In fact in the latest round, they added more to YEG than to YVR.

The growth at YEG is on Encore and Swoop. Westjet has been slowly winding back mainline in favour of Encore and Swoop. Even though Westjet as a group (mainline, Encore and Swoop combined) is increasing YEG by maybe 10 flights per week this winter that is all Encore and Swoop, much less mainline flying again.

casper
Aug 16, 2018, 6:21 AM
as far as WS to China, how much space is available in the china Canada Bi-lateral?

It would b nice to see West Jet try a South - east asia Asian route from YVR.

There is a good picture of YVR C & D piers including D62 on vancouver.ctvnews.ca

Usually those agreements are reciprocal. On the Canadian side there should be lots given how few flights Air Canada operates relative to the number of operated by the Chinese airlines. I though the limiting factor was AC could not secure airport slots at the times they wanted.

Gordon
Aug 16, 2018, 12:28 PM
According to the departing flights page KE to ICN is Departing from gate W5 Where is this gate?

Denscity
Aug 16, 2018, 2:24 PM
Hey Gordon I think you need to get a job on the tarmac at YVR you have so many questions about the operations but most questions get unanswered.

Firebrand
Aug 17, 2018, 12:52 AM
Which is the fastest growing route that terminates/leaves YVR?

Johnny Aussie
Aug 17, 2018, 2:58 AM
Which is the fastest growing route that terminates/leaves YVR?

Even with Westjet’s short lived stint I’d say YVR-MEX would be the fastest growing route in terms of capacity addition in the last couple of years.

Klazu
Aug 17, 2018, 5:05 AM
The timing is perfect as I am moving to Calgary this October ;)

I hope you are taking a shovel with you. ;)

Just joking. Have a good time in Calgary!

Gordon
Aug 17, 2018, 4:45 PM
Remote Stand Operations

acording to YVR.ca The East apron remote Stands will include 3 wide body spots, using gates D56 & D57. The will also be 10 spots for transboarder flights. I wonder if once these Trand border remote stands are in operation we will see traffic graom gates 91-96 transferred to these gates?

Is there much chance that West Jet might try South east Asian routes out of yVR as opposed to China & japan?

CloudInspector
Aug 17, 2018, 6:34 PM
I hope you are taking a shovel with you. ;)

Just joking. Have a good time in Calgary!

A shovel and sunscreen, and you’ll use both on the same day :yes:

excel
Aug 17, 2018, 11:01 PM
A shovel and sunscreen, and you’ll use both on the same day :yes:

Yup this isn't my first rodeo there. I lived in Calgary for 8 months about 3 years ago. That was enough for me but lo and behold I just end up back there. Actually Cochrane this time...

casper
Aug 19, 2018, 5:57 AM
Remote Stand Operations

acording to YVR.ca The East apron remote Stands will include 3 wide body spots, using gates D56 & D57. The will also be 10 spots for transboarder flights. I wonder if once these Trand border remote stands are in operation we will see traffic graom gates 91-96 transferred to these gates?

Is there much chance that West Jet might try South east Asian routes out of yVR as opposed to China & japan?

For WestJet, my guess is Europe in summer. What they probably want to fly to a major hub in Asia (e.g., Narita), connect with a partner and fill the business section with business travelers. They don't have a great record of doing that so far.

What WestJet does do well at is VFR. India is a VFR route. I don't think it would be their first choice, but it may actually work better for them than what is their first choice.

YVR Bruce
Aug 19, 2018, 4:51 PM
In past years, both YVR and LHR have put out press comments saying the Sunday closest to Aug 19th (each year) would statistically have the highest passenger counts.

So today would be the day! But I'm thinking some fully flexible-paid seats might be empty on BA/LH etc due to the smoke... And the cancelled regional flights. Holidays in the province not quite so good at the moment.

Gordon
Aug 21, 2018, 10:36 PM
Pier D:

Is there room for for 2 hold rooms between Gates D55 & D58. It looks like the new remote stands may be in use because the 15:00 CAP to HKG departed from gate D57.

thenoflyzone
Aug 21, 2018, 11:08 PM
For WestJet, my guess is Europe in summer. What they probably want to fly to a major hub in Asia (e.g., Narita), connect with a partner and fill the business section with business travelers. They don't have a great record of doing that so far.

What WestJet does do well at is VFR. India is a VFR route. I don't think it would be their first choice, but it may actually work better for them than what is their first choice.

Short haul VFR is one thing. Long haul VFR is something else entirely.

If WS were to launch YVR-DEL, they would need to secure Russian overflight rights. Those are hard to come by, and cost a lot of money (100$ per passenger is the latest I've heard).

So, a near 12,000 km VFR leg (accounting for the detour around the Himalayas), that passes over Russia, and that already has direct competition. Not the best way to use 2 of your 10 dreamliners on order.

One of the main reasons why TK wants access to YVR is to steal some slices of the YVR-India pie. EK and EY do the same out of YYZ, and now that they have more access to Canada, yields on non stop Canada-India flights will take a hit.

Gordon
Aug 23, 2018, 7:57 PM
Could YVR support daily flights to SIN and BKK

Does any one know how the D pier construction is progressing?,

SpongeG
Aug 24, 2018, 6:11 AM
WestJet cutting flights in a bid to reverse first loss in 13 years
By Ross Marowits The Canadian Press

The Alberta-based airline is cutting back on flights between Vancouver and Edmonton and Calgary, between Calgary and Denver, between Edmonton and Phoenix along with between Winnipeg and Palm Springs, Calif.

Service will be trimmed between Vancouver and Fort St. John, Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Cabo San Lucas and Palm Springs.

The airline is also cancelling all service to Mexico City, that will affect both Calgary and Vancouver. However, travel is still possible through its codeshare partner Aeromexico.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4404161/westjet-cutting-back-flights-reducing-capacity/

I've flown a few times on the YVR - Ft St John (YXJ) a few imes and its alway around 50 - 75% capacity, I don't think its ever been full like the same flight with AC.

trofirhen
Aug 24, 2018, 7:26 AM
Westjet seems to have been going pretty strong over the past five or so years, considering how relatively recent an arrival they are on the Canadian aviation market scene.
I hope that this is not an bad omen, just at a time when they are planning to go big-time international with a fleet of 787s on order.

Also, what about flights to places like San Jose del Cabo, among others? Will these destinations now remain unserved or might other airlines (Interjet Aeromexico) fill the gap?

And will SWOOP be a success (in the opinion of the more informed SSP members) or, like many low cost European carriers, will the seats be cheaper, but require passengers to compensate by paying for everything, but everything else, often at not-such-bargain prices? I think everyone here hopes that SWOOP will mean travelling at cheap prices .... but will it?

Thank you for your time and consideration. Feedback welcome - and requested.:)

SpongeG
Aug 24, 2018, 6:12 PM
you already pay for everything on Westjet. Oh, you get a free sip of a drink on some flights.

They make you pay for food on long-haul flights though, that's ridiculous. I personally avoid Westjet, I really don't care that the flight attendant can sing a song or be sassy with the safety demo.

s211
Aug 24, 2018, 6:15 PM
you already pay for everything on Westjet. Oh, you get a free sip of a drink on some flights.

They make you pay for food on long-haul flights though, that's ridiculous. I personally avoid Westjet, I really don't care that the flight attendant can sing a song or be sassy with the safety demo.

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one.

whatnext
Aug 24, 2018, 7:10 PM
Air Canada looks like it's removed 767 domestic flights from this summer's bookings. Up until a couple weeks ago, the 767 was scheduled on quite a few domestic legs (YVR-YYZ mainly), but has since been removed entirely and replaced by 321 aircraft. I know scheds aren't final yet, but seems like a notable thing, considering all the flights are the same, just the equipment is now 321 for each previous 767. But OAG and flight schedules still have the 767 listed (ex. AC182, 102, 184, and 166 are on OAG as 767, but on AC's booking site, each of these four flights is now 321.

I wondering if they are planning to move a bunch to Rouge?

What a shame. One of my favourite planes, twin-aisle comfort and the 2-3-2 arrangement was just about perfect for Y.

LeftCoaster
Aug 24, 2018, 8:52 PM
YVR taking the brunt of WestJet's capacity cuts. Looks like they are trying to route YVR passengers through YYC. Can't imagine that is going to be a great model with AC providing direct options at similar prices from YVR.

Going to be a very interesting few years for WS upcoming as their cost advantage over AC continues to erode and their widebodies arrive.

GlassCity
Aug 24, 2018, 9:00 PM
YVR taking the brunt of WestJet's capacity cuts. Looks like they are trying to route YVR passengers through YYC. Can't imagine that is going to be a great model with AC providing direct options at similar prices from YVR.

Going to be a very interesting few years for WS upcoming as their cost advantage over AC continues to erode and their widebodies arrive.

Does this mean Vancouverites can slowly start complaining about the hub and spoke system on the Canadian thread too!?!

Johnny Aussie
Aug 24, 2018, 9:59 PM
Has anyone actually looked at what these “massive capacity cuts are”

YUL is becoming seasonal. MEX being cut but it didn’t exist last winter so no effect YOY. The other routes are being trimmed not cut.

From what I can see (quick look) for example SJD being cut from 6 to 5 and PSP 16 to 15 flights per week.
YXJ cut from 2 to 1 daily but they’re increasing YCD to 2 daily so there goes that flight transferred.
Unless they haven’t loaded all the cuts yet!

YUL will have only three routes this winter YYC, YYZ (almost all Encore) and YHZ (Encore). WestJet will have just two daily mainline flights from YUL this winter... 1 to YYC and 1 to YYZ....now that’s a slash and burn in my opinion.

AC focussing on YYZ YUL YVR while reducing YYC. WS focussing on YYC. That’s what they need to do to fight.

Canada overall still a very small market.

Gordon
Aug 24, 2018, 10:25 PM
Is West jet over reacting to its first loss in 13 years?
I'm not surprised about the capacity reduction for YvR PSP seeing as AC is now daily this winter.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 24, 2018, 10:33 PM
Is West jet over reacting to its first loss in 13 years?
I'm not surprised about the capacity reduction for YvR PSP seeing as AC is now daily this winter.

They’re reacting to the loss but also future defensive planning against Flair and Air Canada’s strategy. Beef up at their largest hub will give them the greatest chance to curb further losses... or will it? It’s a risk and gamble but maybe their best option. As AC (slowly) retreats from YYC they see an opportunity. YVR still has a huge O&D advantage over YYC but YVR will and always will be disadvantaged geographically when it comes to domestic and the USA.

CloudInspector
Aug 24, 2018, 11:01 PM
They’re reacting to the loss but also future defensive planning against Flair and Air Canada’s strategy. Beef up at their largest hub will give them the greatest chance to curb further losses... or will it? It’s a risk and gamble but maybe their best option. As AC (slowly) retreats from YYC they see an opportunity. YVR still has a huge O&D advantage over YYC but YVR will and always will be disadvantaged geographically when it comes to domestic and the USA.

I agree 100%. The cuts aren’t huge and according to friends there, they actually increased the size of the YVR pilot base in the last bid.

YYC will always have the geographic advantage as a Canadian transfer hub, similar to how YVR has both the O&D and geographic advantages for Asia/Pacific flying. Not a lot of people would be willing to backtrack 400 miles to Calgary to catch a flight to Asia with the multitude of options available in YVR.

LeftCoaster
Aug 24, 2018, 11:39 PM
Given the strength of growth at YVR right now, cutting service seems to me to carry a lot more weight than it would otherwise. Losing in a winning market signals structural issues, and retreating to a smaller airport rather than fighting seems to be throwing in the towel.

But I don't know the complexities of their operations or finances on a whole or at any of their hubs, so that's just my view as an outsider.

Also, weren't there more domestic cuts? YVR-YEG, YVR-YYC and YVR-YYZ?

TheGreatestX
Aug 25, 2018, 12:07 AM
This article has a pretty good breakdown of most of the changes:

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/westjet-reducing-flight-services-across-canada-2018

Johnny Aussie
Aug 25, 2018, 2:42 AM
Yes that breakdown by the Daily Hive sums it up well.

As I said most of the routes being trimmed are minor. Most by one weekly frequency.

Have a look before becoming hysterical! :haha:

dharper
Aug 25, 2018, 3:14 AM
I have never flown Westjet before, mainly because their flights never fit my travel schedule.
If I am on a short holiday in LA or Las Vegas I want a direct flight. I can see stopping in Calgary if you are flying east from Vancouver, but if I am flying to LA or Las Vegas I am never going to make a stop in Calgary first. And it appears many of their flights from YVR to LA and Vegas already take this route.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 25, 2018, 4:04 AM
I have never flown Westjet before, mainly because their flights never fit my travel schedule.
If I am on a short holiday in LA or Las Vegas I want a direct flight. I can see stopping in Calgary if you are flying east from Vancouver, but if I am flying to LA or Las Vegas I am never going to make a stop in Calgary first. And it appears many of their flights from YVR to LA and Vegas already take this route.

I’ve flown WestJet once only. Vancouver to Saskatchatoon. Always fly Star Alliance but for some reason this was the only flight that would work.

WestJet has more flights to LAX from YVR than YYC. To LAS there are two daily. In those cases probably no need to connect. However, their revenue management team can be very clever showing connecting flights cheaper so therefore some passengers will choose connecting over nonstop. This applies to almost airlines and not just Westjet though.

thenoflyzone
Aug 25, 2018, 4:59 AM
The biggest loser in the WS cuts isn't YVR, or YUL. It's YYZ. But nice try Johnny.

More importantly, this shows severe flaws in WS's overall strategies. They announced YUL-BOS/YQB just last year, and they will be gone more or less a year after they started. Let's not even start about YYC/YVR-MEX. What will happen when they get the Dreamliners? A lot of tough times ahead for WS before the picture gets prettier.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 25, 2018, 6:23 AM
The biggest loser in the WS cuts isn't YVR, or YUL. It's YYZ. But nice try Johnny.

More importantly, this shows severe flaws in WS's overall strategies. They announced YUL-BOS/YQB just last year, and they will be gone more or less a year after they started. Let's not even start about YYC/YVR-MEX. What will happen when they get the Dreamliners? A lot of tough times ahead for WS before the picture gets prettier.

Sorry but YUL has lost every destination except for 3.
This winter there will basically be a shuttle service to YYZ (13 daily Encore flights and 1 mainline) to feed the hub there. A single daily flight to YYC and 2 daily Encore Q400s to YHZ.
Gone are all USA and Caribbean flights, YVR, YWG, YEG and YQB.
YVR, YEG and YWG will no doubt come back next summer.
In terms of destinations and % of frequencies lost YUL has actually lost the most.
MEX wasn’t flying last winter so no comparison YOY. Too much capacity from YVR with AC, AM and 4O on that route. As for YYC-MEX who knows.
Just shows how powerful AC is in Montreal and YUL’s lower domestic and transborder O&D.

casper
Aug 25, 2018, 6:29 AM
I have never flown Westjet before, mainly because their flights never fit my travel schedule.
If I am on a short holiday in LA or Las Vegas I want a direct flight. I can see stopping in Calgary if you are flying east from Vancouver, but if I am flying to LA or Las Vegas I am never going to make a stop in Calgary first. And it appears many of their flights from YVR to LA and Vegas already take this route.

WestJet is the largest foreign airline in Las Vegas. They have no shortage of non-stop flights from YVR to Vegas. They even have flights to Vegas from smaller centers in BC such as Victoria.

thenoflyzone
Aug 25, 2018, 1:57 PM
Sorry but YUL has lost every destination except for 3.
This winter there will basically be a shuttle service to YYZ (13 daily Encore flights and 1 mainline) to feed the hub there. A single daily flight to YYC and 2 daily Encore Q400s to YHZ.
Gone are all USA and Caribbean flights, YVR, YWG, YEG and YQB.
YVR, YEG and YWG will no doubt come back next summer.
In terms of destinations and % of frequencies lost YUL has actually lost the most.
MEX wasn’t flying last winter so no comparison YOY. Too much capacity from YVR with AC, AM and 4O on that route. As for YYC-MEX who knows.
Just shows how powerful AC is in Montreal and YUL’s lower domestic and transborder O&D.

I was talking specifically about this latest round of cuts. YUL-YYZ has been mostly Q400s for years now, especially in winter.

Alexcaban
Aug 25, 2018, 2:14 PM
WS left YUL-FLL because they were getting killed with 5 daily AC rouge 763 on the route. Plain and simple

teriyaki
Aug 25, 2018, 6:32 PM
If I saw it coreectly. Think I saw a CX 777 flight on the bus gate. That's a big boy to load and unload with the busses vs the 787s they've been handling so far.

Gordon
Aug 25, 2018, 7:28 PM
Yes th last week or so the 15:00 CAP to HKG has been the flight uinf gate D57. was the plane on one of the west pads or on of the new East Apron Remote Stands?

Johnny Aussie
Aug 25, 2018, 9:38 PM
WS left YUL-FLL because they were getting killed with 5 daily AC rouge 763 on the route. Plain and simple

Yup. AC too strong in YUL and pushing WS out. AC has pushed WS out of about 10 routes.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 26, 2018, 5:26 AM
After all the chat and speculation I thought I would actually sit down and calc the Westjet schedules for the upcoming winter.

As expected the media releases were quite exaggerated to what’s actually happening... be careful what you read I suppose.

Overall Westjet will be at:

Total
2018/2019: 506 weekly flights (or 72.3 daily)
2017/2018: 521 weekly flights (or 74.4 daily)

Mainline
2018/2019: 344 weekly flights (or 49.1 daily)
2017/2018: 356 weekly flights (or 50.9 daily)

Encore
2018/2019: 162 weekly flights (or 23.1 daily)
2017/2018: 165 weekly flights (or 23.6 daily)

The mainline loss is mainly attributable to the loss of YUL (6pw) and reduced YYC (5pw) flights. And the once weekly reductions of PSP and PVR. I am not sure about the reports of YYZ being reduced as I show 52 weekly both years. Also I don’t see a change in CUN or SJD compared to last year unless they had the one extra weekly for only a short period. LAX is actually up to 21 weekly from 20. The YEG reduction was just the loss of 4 weekly Encore. And the addition to YCD more than offsets the loss to YXJ. So there’s the reductions in a nutshell.

So overall YVR lost 2.1 daily flights... still over 72 daily and close to 50 of that is mainline. Also still ahead of 2016/2017 when they had 69 (49 mainline to 20 Encore)... so not quite the dramatic slash and burn as some suspected.

In comparison YEG mainline has been slashed from about 33 daily to about 28. As I was saying WS continues to wind back mainline there in favour of Swoop and Encore. A trend that began with the 2015/16 schedule.

Hourglass
Aug 27, 2018, 6:19 AM
After all the chat and speculation I thought I would actually sit down and calc the Westjet schedules for the upcoming winter.

As expected the media releases were quite exaggerated to what’s actually happening... be careful what you read I suppose.

Overall Westjet will be at:

Total
2018/2019: 506 weekly flights (or 72.3 daily)
2017/2018: 521 weekly flights (or 74.4 daily)

Mainline
2018/2019: 344 weekly flights (or 49.1 daily)
2017/2018: 356 weekly flights (or 50.9 daily)

Encore
2018/2019: 162 weekly flights (or 23.1 daily)
2017/2018: 165 weekly flights (or 23.6 daily)

The mainline loss is mainly attributable to the loss of YUL (6pw) and reduced YYC (5pw) flights. And the once weekly reductions of PSP and PVR. I am not sure about the reports of YYZ being reduced as I show 52 weekly both years. Also I don’t see a change in CUN or SJD compared to last year unless they had the one extra weekly for only a short period. LAX is actually up to 21 weekly from 20. The YEG reduction was just the loss of 4 weekly Encore. And the addition to YCD more than offsets the loss to YXJ. So there’s the reductions in a nutshell.

So overall YVR lost 2.1 daily flights... still over 72 daily and close to 50 of that is mainline. Also still ahead of 2016/2017 when they had 69 (49 mainline to 20 Encore)... so not quite the dramatic slash and burn as some suspected.

In comparison YEG mainline has been slashed from about 33 daily to about 28. As I was saying WS continues to wind back mainline there in favour of Swoop and Encore. A trend that began with the 2015/16 schedule.

Nice analysis. Thanks for taking the time to do that. Any idea how it stacks up against Westjet's other hubs in YYC and YYZ?

Johnny Aussie
Aug 27, 2018, 9:20 AM
Nice analysis. Thanks for taking the time to do that. Any idea how it stacks up against Westjet's other hubs in YYC and YYZ?

YYC tweeted after the winter schedule announcement that Westjet will have 142 daily flights this winter from YYC. The breakdown between mainline, Encore and Westjet Link I don't know. Westjet Link has 11 daily flights.

Hourglass
Aug 27, 2018, 10:11 AM
YYC tweeted after the winter schedule announcement that Westjet will have 142 daily flights this winter from YYC. The breakdown between mainline, Encore and Westjet Link I don't know. Westjet Link has 11 daily flights.

Cheers Johnny. So Westjet daily flights at YYC about double YVR. Will be interesting to see how they utilize their new 789s.

Denscity
Aug 27, 2018, 5:16 PM
Imagine if YVR was home to an airline.

trofirhen
Aug 27, 2018, 5:29 PM
Imagine if YVR was home to an airline.

It was once; Canadian Pacific Airlines.

zahav
Aug 27, 2018, 7:36 PM
It looks like for several weeks in December/early January Aeromexico service increases up to 19 weekly. Just for the holiday period before it goes back to 15 weekly.

But I wouldn't be surprised if they increase again, especially now with WS giving up the route. I wonder if they will give YYC another shot now that WS is gone?

Johnny Aussie
Aug 27, 2018, 8:14 PM
Imagine if YVR was home to an airline.

Imagine if YYZ was too!
Well... they have Sunwing but YVR has Pacific Coastal!

It looks like for several weeks in December/early January Aeromexico service increases up to 19 weekly. Just for the holiday period before it goes back to 15 weekly.

But I wouldn't be surprised if they increase again, especially now with WS giving up the route. I wonder if they will give YYC another shot now that WS is gone?

I think that was too much capacity. Good that they can increase over the peak xmas period to 19 per week though.

Now if Air Canada could add just one more daily transborder flight this winter and they’d be at 40 daily from YVR. As it stands 39!

Denscity
Aug 27, 2018, 8:41 PM
I consider AC a Toronto airline even if many suits are in Montreal.

LeftCoaster
Aug 27, 2018, 10:58 PM
After all the chat and speculation I thought I would actually sit down and calc the Westjet schedules for the upcoming winter.

As expected the media releases were quite exaggerated to what’s actually happening... be careful what you read I suppose.

Overall Westjet will be at:

Total
2018/2019: 506 weekly flights (or 72.3 daily)
2017/2018: 521 weekly flights (or 74.4 daily)

Mainline
2018/2019: 344 weekly flights (or 49.1 daily)
2017/2018: 356 weekly flights (or 50.9 daily)

Encore
2018/2019: 162 weekly flights (or 23.1 daily)
2017/2018: 165 weekly flights (or 23.6 daily)

The mainline loss is mainly attributable to the loss of YUL (6pw) and reduced YYC (5pw) flights. And the once weekly reductions of PSP and PVR. I am not sure about the reports of YYZ being reduced as I show 52 weekly both years. Also I don’t see a change in CUN or SJD compared to last year unless they had the one extra weekly for only a short period. LAX is actually up to 21 weekly from 20. The YEG reduction was just the loss of 4 weekly Encore. And the addition to YCD more than offsets the loss to YXJ. So there’s the reductions in a nutshell.

So overall YVR lost 2.1 daily flights... still over 72 daily and close to 50 of that is mainline. Also still ahead of 2016/2017 when they had 69 (49 mainline to 20 Encore)... so not quite the dramatic slash and burn as some suspected.

In comparison YEG mainline has been slashed from about 33 daily to about 28. As I was saying WS continues to wind back mainline there in favour of Swoop and Encore. A trend that began with the 2015/16 schedule.

Great analysis, thanks for putting that together.

Not as bad as was being reported, but still not great that WS is going down when YVR is going up.