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Johnny Aussie
Aug 28, 2018, 10:00 AM
It will be interesting to see how long it takes or some of these cuts to be restored, because i would think that west Jet needs fairly decent service levels to Canada's second largest city?

It wuld be mie to see Delta's jFK & Atlanta flights as well as AA ' ORD flight change from Red Eye to mid day flights?

AA on ORD is changing to a daylight flight for the winter scheds.

deasine
Aug 28, 2018, 5:19 PM
It's important to remember that private companies do not like competition, and aviation is no exception. Air carriers tend not to share hubs whenever possible: when competing home carriers share hubs, one tends to perform poorly. Examples:

US: The Big 4 do not share primary hubs with one another - LAX, New York, and Chicago are exceptions but these aren't the main hubs, do not necessarily have one dominant carrier (highly fragmented in marketshare), and have supporting O&D traffic demand
China: The Big 4 all have different primary hubs - Beijing is the only shared but again it's the largest city and government regulations have protected significant competition between carriers
Europe: same story applies - even in the UK where Virgin Atlantic is a comparatively large competitor with British Airways, Virgin Atlantic also has a lot of activity outside of London (whereas BA is really London-focused)


I'm less familiar with the Australian market (Johnny_Aussie please chip in!), but I believe while Qantas and Virgin do share hubs of all the large Australian cities, Virgin's primary hub is in Brisbane whereas Qantas is in Sydney. And even then Virgin hasn't been making any money.

With the recent JV from Delta, it would make sense for Westjet to cut competitive US routes. I would expect Westjet to further enhance its partnerships with other carriers so that it develops a "virtual international network." For instance, an enhanced partnership with Korean Air would enable KE to retain its flights to Vancouver and Toronto, but also allow Westjet to operate from Calgary. This might not necessarily benefit Vancouver per say, but the private market will eventually remove inefficiencies and right-size itself.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 28, 2018, 6:58 PM
It's important to remember that private companies do not like competition, and aviation is no exception. Air carriers tend not to share hubs whenever possible: when competing home carriers share hubs, one tends to perform poorly. Examples:

US: The Big 4 do not share primary hubs with one another - LAX, New York, and Chicago are exceptions but these aren't the main hubs, do not necessarily have one dominant carrier (highly fragmented in marketshare), and have supporting O&D traffic demand
China: The Big 4 all have different primary hubs - Beijing is the only shared but again it's the largest city and government regulations have protected significant competition between carriers
Europe: same story applies - even in the UK where Virgin Atlantic is a comparatively large competitor with British Airways, Virgin Atlantic also has a lot of activity outside of London (whereas BA is really London-focused)


I'm less familiar with the Australian market (Johnny_Aussie please chip in!), but I believe while Qantas and Virgin do share hubs of all the large Australian cities, Virgin's primary hub is in Brisbane whereas Qantas is in Sydney. And even then Virgin hasn't been making any money.

With the recent JV from Delta, it would make sense for Westjet to cut competitive US routes. I would expect Westjet to further enhance its partnerships with other carriers so that it develops a "virtual international network." For instance, an enhanced partnership with Korean Air would enable KE to retain its flights to Vancouver and Toronto, but also allow Westjet to operate from Calgary. This might not necessarily benefit Vancouver per say, but the private market will eventually remove inefficiencies and right-size itself.

The Australian market is a bit different. Qantas and Virgin operate significant hubs at SYD, MEL and BNE. QF has its largest international hub at SYD and lesser operations at MEL and BNE. Domestically though the flights are spread out more evenly between MEL and SYD.
VA isn't as big an international player and only has a handful of long haul routes. VA is based in BNE but it's operations there are not its primary hub, it's one of three hubs. VA does not have a dominant hub.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 28, 2018, 7:04 PM
This winter Air Canada will not be operating any A320s or A319s on the YVR-YYZ/YUL/YOW routes:

YYZ 2 daily 77Ws 1 daily 77L 1 daily 789 7 daily 321s
YUL 1 daily 333 1 daily 788 3 daily 7M8s
YOW 2 daily 321s

So the smallest aircraft transcon will be the 7M8 this winter

canlynx
Aug 29, 2018, 6:19 AM
Air New Zealand’s planned 8-9 weekly increase is cancelled. 777-200ER continues operating instead of 787-9.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/280280/air-new-zealand-nw18-long-haul-changes-as-of-29aug18/

LeftCoaster
Aug 29, 2018, 8:50 PM
But with one 777-300xPW, so still an increase to last winter, just not as large as was planned.

I wonder why they pulled the expansion back, the 787-9 is the perfect plane for the route it seems.

LeftCoaster
Aug 29, 2018, 8:51 PM
It’s just their strategy. As I’ve stated:

1) They are really bunkering down in YYC
2) The AC hubs at YVR, YYZ and YUL are probably inhibiting growth for WS
3) They’ve literally abandoned YUL with such limited services there now
4) They’ve reduced YYZ flying
5) They are slowly drawing down mainline at YEG

YYC is their only glimmer of hope I suppose hence their aggressive expansion there. I’ll bet we see AC further draw down YYC.

YVR is still by far Westjet’s 3rd largest base.

Yep, I'm not disagreeing with any of this, just saying it' not a good thing for YVR or WS. The little airline that could do no wrong is now having a real tough go of it.

SpongeG
Aug 29, 2018, 9:48 PM
Change is in the Air at YVR: September Construction Update
August 28, 2018 · The YVR Blog team

There are several key projects currently taking place that will enhance the airport experience. This includes our biggest sustainability projects to date, new parking options, terminal expansions and much more.

Some projects you may see on Sea Island this month include:

Construction is underway to prepare for Phase II of the McArthurGlen Designer Outlet Vancouver Airport. This phase is scheduled to open in Spring 2019 and will deliver 84,000 square feet of additional retail space. BC Hydro is completing utilities work in and around Grant McConachie Way and Templeton Street. Paving on Miller Road as well as bike lane repairs on Grant McConachie Way have been postponed until September. Once schedules are finalized, more information will be provided.

Various work is continuing in the old Value Lot (adjacent to the Parkade) to prepare for the construction of a new six-storey parking lot and Central Utilities Building. This work includes fence and hoarding installation, grubbing and some traffic control measures around the exit toll plaza.

As part of the above project, preparatory work is also taking place around the old Value Lot in phases. Progressive lane closures are required westbound and eastbound on Grant McConachie Way. Impacts to the public will be minimal and drivers are asked to follow directional signage.

Scheduled maintenance work will be taking place on level 3 of the Parkade. This work will occur in phases during daytime hours and is expected to be complete by early October.

Work is wrapping up on the curbside enhancement project, which is occurring on the sidewalk along the Departures level. There are construction zones set up along the departures level which impact sidewalk and curb access.

...

http://www.yvr.ca/en/blog/2018/change-is-in-the-air-at-yvr-september-construction-update

Johnny Aussie
Aug 30, 2018, 10:45 PM
As all the airlines seem to have finalised their winter schedules the following is an overview for YVR.

Total daily flights will rise to 87 compared to only 76 last winter.

The increase of 11 daily flights is mainly attributable to AC with 8 additional daily frequencies to 39 total daily flights

Other changes:

AA - NEW daily to ORD
AS - SEA back to 5 daily from 4 (2 will be mainline 2 E75s and 1 DH4)
DL - almost identical to 2017/2018 - additional daily SEA offsets the loss of LAX
UA - almost identical to 2017/2018 (note: as always UA increases their winter scheds the week of 14 Feb)
WS - almost indetical to 2017/2018 - increase in LAX by 1 weekly offset by the decrease in PSP 1 weekly

Total transborder daily departures in order of frequency:

AC 39
WS 15
UA 11
DL 9
AA 7
AS 7
TTL 88 (50 mainline 38 regional)

2017/2018 was 76 daily (44 mainline 32 regional)

LeftCoaster
Aug 30, 2018, 11:04 PM
Great analysis Johnny, thanks.

I assume seats will be close to the same as 2017/2018 as the higher AC frequencies are mainly a product of swapping out Rouge 767 flying for mainline 737-MAX?

Johnny Aussie
Aug 30, 2018, 11:36 PM
Great analysis Johnny, thanks.

I assume seats will be close to the same as 2017/2018 as the higher AC frequencies are mainly a product of swapping out Rouge 767 flying for mainline 737-MAX?

On the "rouge" affected routes it's pretty much a wash:

Increases / decreases by one way seats per week

OGG + 392
HNL + 392
PHX - 106
PSP + 176
MCO - 564
KOA + 112
LAS - 458

Overall loss is 56 seats per week

Now throw in the other increases: LIH (+3), SMF (+7), DEN (+7), SAN (+7), SJC (+1) and LAX (+7) + more seats to SFO as 4 daily 319s replaced by 3 daily 320s + 1 daily CR9..... the overall seat count will be higher.

LeftCoaster
Aug 31, 2018, 12:02 AM
Ahh well that's a pleasant surprise.

Thanks for the number crunching!

Johnny Aussie
Aug 31, 2018, 10:55 PM
Moving along to the winter non-US sun flights.

This winter (as of today) there will be 95 weekly flights to Mexico, the Caribbean and Central America.

Weekly frequency breakdown by carrier:

Westjet 22
Air Canada 21
Sunwing 16
Aeromexico 15 (up to 19 during peak Xmas period)
Air Transat 13
Interjet 8 (winter increase not showing yet)

Sunwing has been stagnant the last few years.
Air Transat frequencies up but capacity wise is about the same. They are now an all A321 operation this winter. From YVR they will now only fly direct to CUN, PVR and HUX.
Air Canada will have higher frequencies and capacity this winter. Some routes transferred from rouge to mainline. Services to MEX, CUN, PVR, SJD and ZIH.
Westjet - meh

Just FYI is anyone thinks this isn’t very many....

YVR to Hawaii this winter leaps to 77 flights per week... yes that’s right 11 daily flights! Capacity will be up even with the transfer from rouge to mainline on AC. AC to LIH a new route. I’m sure some will still focus on AC pulling MCO. :haha:

officedweller
Sep 1, 2018, 12:41 AM
...
Various work is continuing in the old Value Lot (adjacent to the Parkade) to prepare for the construction of a new six-storey parking lot and [B]Central Utilities Building. This work includes fence and hoarding installation, grubbing and some traffic control measures around the exit toll plaza.

http://www.yvr.ca/en/blog/2018/change-is-in-the-air-at-yvr-september-construction-update


http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/images/construction/newparkade.jpg?h=381&w=700&la=en&hash=8D9E8959A2EAF4D2EF98025D92E95086A2A8DE43
new parking expansion is to the left of the red elevated walkway. The central utlities is the teal building further left.

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/images/construction/cub-rendering.png?la=en&hash=4ACB2D21AFA53C56253F08219AEC7FE39369D64C


Central Utilities Building

Looks more utilitarian now...

...
The central utilities building is scheduled to be operational in 2022. It will feature a GeoExchange system, one of the largest in Canada, which will consolidate the airport’s heating, cooling and backup electrical system and contribute to the airport’s target of a 33-per-cent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions.

The system is closed-loop and located under the central utilities building and parkade. Fluid is circulated through a well system deep in the ground.

No water is pumped into or out of the loop, but rather the loop acts as a heat exchanger between the ground and the heat pumps. Hundreds of wells of up to 500 feet will be sunk into the ground to take advantage of the ground’s heating and cooling properties.
...

https://canada.constructconnect.com/joc/news/infrastructure/2018/08/massive-vancouver-airport-expansion-already-flight

https://canada.constructconnect.com/app/uploads/2018/08/FRONT-Rendeering-of-Central-Utilities-Building-mainweb-1024x576.jpg
Contractors recently broke ground on a new $550-million central utilities building, which is just one of many projects underway at the Vancouver International Airport.
https://canada.constructconnect.com/joc/news/infrastructure/2018/08/massive-vancouver-airport-expansion-already-flight

https://canada.constructconnect.com/app/uploads/2018/06/PAGE-TWO-YVR-central-utility-building-CMYK-e1529526125700-1024x576.jpg
https://canada.constructconnect.com/joc/news/infrastructure/2018/06/yvr-breaks-ground-massive-capital-construction-projects

6-storey parkade and ground transportation facility

https://canada.constructconnect.com/app/uploads/2018/08/PAGE-THREE-Rendering-of-New-Parkade-web.jpg
https://canada.constructconnect.com/joc/news/infrastructure/2018/08/massive-vancouver-airport-expansion-already-flight

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfrek1qVMAAhkDG.jpg
https://twitter.com/yvrairport

Pier D Expansion

https://canada.constructconnect.com/app/uploads/2018/08/FRONT-Rendering-of-Pier-D-Expansion-web.jpg

https://canada.constructconnect.com/joc/news/infrastructure/2018/08/massive-vancouver-airport-expansion-already-flight

thenoflyzone
Sep 1, 2018, 2:06 AM
Just FYI is anyone thinks this isn’t very many....

Considering YYC has more weekly flights to those destinations, yes. Then again, Latin America/Caribbean isn't YVR's strong suit. Nor is it YYC's for that matter.

osirisboy
Sep 1, 2018, 2:21 AM
In the first image, to the south There is massive grey block, what does that represent? And it shows a long link to the parkade

Johnny Aussie
Sep 1, 2018, 2:37 AM
Considering YYC has more weekly flights to those destinations, yes. Then again, Latin America/Caribbean isn't YVR's strong suit. Nor is it YYC's for that matter.

Yeah those 73 weekly flights on WS from YYC would not exist if it weren’t for their growing hub there. The high number only exists due to the supporting network.

Having said that YVR wouldn’t have 77 weekly flights to Hawaii if YVR wasn’t located where it is.

DDP
Sep 2, 2018, 4:11 PM
Yup. AC too strong in YUL and pushing WS out. AC has pushed WS out of about 10 routes.

Plus Transat to Florida is a big too out of Montreal.

zahav
Sep 4, 2018, 10:54 PM
YVR has never been a major international sun destination airport, mainly owing to the winters not being as harsh so less people make those trips (endless rain doesn't count, it may be depressing but it's not -40 and unable to leave your house). Every major airport (including Calgary as mentioned) always had a bigger sun destination footprint, more variety of destinations and flights. And those markets are strictly leisure, so it's no surprise that the destinations and frequencies are fairly stable. Hawaii is also basically a sun destination but falls into the transborder category, just like Florida for the East Coast.

I personally don't mind having a limited sun destination roster, we have good year round flights to Asia, Australia, Europe, I don't think there's anyone really missing that Punta Cana non-stop flight :p

LeftCoaster
Sep 4, 2018, 11:56 PM
In the first image, to the south There is massive grey block, what does that represent? And it shows a long link to the parkade

That looks like a future terminal location, expanded A/B pier. No idea why they've shown it here since it's not indicated on their 2037 plans.

YVR has never been a major international sun destination airport, mainly owing to the winters not being as harsh so less people make those trips (endless rain doesn't count, it may be depressing but it's not -40 and unable to leave your house). Every major airport (including Calgary as mentioned) always had a bigger sun destination footprint, more variety of destinations and flights. And those markets are strictly leisure, so it's no surprise that the destinations and frequencies are fairly stable. Hawaii is also basically a sun destination but falls into the transborder category, just like Florida for the East Coast.

I personally don't mind having a limited sun destination roster, we have good year round flights to Asia, Australia, Europe, I don't think there's anyone really missing that Punta Cana non-stop flight :p

I agree. While it'd be nice for YVR to be everything to everyone, sun flying is definitely not our strength and probably never will be like it is in the prairies and Eastern Canada.

LeftCoaster
Sep 5, 2018, 12:12 AM
In other news Cathay will be deploying their reconfigured 77HDs to Vancouver starting Oct 28th:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/280343/cathay-pacific-w18-high-density-boeing-777-operations-as-of-31aug18/

Should be about an 8% capacity bump over the non HD. They are only going HD on the three class flight, not yet on the four class that carries on to JFK, we'll see if that's to come.

Also United cancelled their SFO-YYJ (Victoria) service. Unfortunate for Victoria but could result in a bit of a bump on YVR-SFO services as they get routed through YVR.

Alpine
Sep 5, 2018, 12:45 AM
Does Transport Canada release PDEW data for non-U.S., non-charter/leisure/freight international routes (from Canadian destinations) to the public, like the FAA does?

Is there any public data at all (or even data behind an academic paywall) for actual/potential passenger demand regarding these kinds of routes? From a broader perspective, are there any traffic statistics for which connecting carriers/hubs people travellers use to get to a non-direct destination? e.g. YVR-SIN:

__ pax via TPE (CI), __ pax via TPE (AC/BR)
__ pax via ICN (KE), __ pax via ICN (AC/SQ)
__ pax via NRT (JL)
__ pax via SFO (UA)
__ pax via CAN (CZ)

By the way, I've found it can be $100-200 cheaper to connect in SFO/LAX than in Taiwan, Beijing, Narita, etc. depending on the date. But are the savings worth having to go through U.S. customs?

Edit: I was aimlessly browsing Google Flights today and I found YVR-BLR fares from BA for $1,000 CAD. Bengaluru is a city that I've always wanted to visit (the tech hub of India), and I'm surprised flying through Seattle on AS/EK costs an additional $700; aren't subcontinent destinations like Bengaluru EK's bread and butter?

The downside is that the dates are at the tail end of the monsoon, and require an overnight stay in London. You can check out the itinerary here: https://goo.gl/flights/L8pwN

Another thing that just popped into my head: Considering Vancouver's large Jewish and Persian communities, could a 3x weekly YVR-TLV or YVR-IKA nonstop be sustained? The 789 could do both.

Johnny Aussie
Sep 5, 2018, 6:14 AM
duplicate

Johnny Aussie
Sep 5, 2018, 6:15 AM
YVR has never been a major international sun destination airport, mainly owing to the winters not being as harsh so less people make those trips (endless rain doesn't count, it may be depressing but it's not -40 and unable to leave your house). Every major airport (including Calgary as mentioned) always had a bigger sun destination footprint, more variety of destinations and flights. And those markets are strictly leisure, so it's no surprise that the destinations and frequencies are fairly stable. Hawaii is also basically a sun destination but falls into the transborder category, just like Florida for the East Coast.

I personally don't mind having a limited sun destination roster, we have good year round flights to Asia, Australia, Europe, I don't think there's anyone really missing that Punta Cana non-stop flight :p

YVR will have 95 flights per week to Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean this winter. That’s still a significant amount and an increase over last winter.
YYC will have 104 of which 73 of those will be on Westjet.
YYC would have way fewer flights on WS if it wasn’t for their hub.
To compare also, YEG will have only 39 non-US sun flights per week this winter.

Throw in all the sun destinations to the US (including Hawaii) and YVR is miles ahead of both YYC and YEG so I’m not sure your reference point saying YVR is poorly served.

Again just for comparison YVR to Hawaii will have 77 weekly compared to only 13 from YYC and only 2 from YEG.

Conclusion:

YVR is very well connected for passengers seeking the sun.

And you can still get to PUJ nonstop on Sunwing ;)

Don’t get me started on comparing long haul routes :D

If you really want to seek the sun from YVR in the winter how about a nice trip dowununder!

28 weekly flights to SYD, AKL, BNE or MEL on your choice of 3 carriers :haha:

zahav
Sep 5, 2018, 6:58 AM
YVR will have 95 flights per week to Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean this winter. That’s still a significant amount and an increase over last winter.
YYC will have 104 of which 73 of those will be on Westjet.
YYC would have way fewer flights on WS if it wasn’t for their hub. To compare also, YEG will have only 39 flights.

Throw in all the sun destinations to the US (including Hawaii) and YVR is miles ahead of both YYC and YEG so I’m not sure your reference point saying YVR is poorly served.

Again just for comparison YVR to Hawaii will have 77 weekly compared to only 13 from YYC and only 2 from YEG.

Conclusion:

YVR is very well connected for passengers seeking the sun.

And you can still get to PUJ nonstop on Sunwing ;)

Don’t get me started on comparing long haul routes :D

If you really want to seek the sun from YVR in the winter how about a nice trip dowununder!

28 weekly flights to SYD, AKL, BNE or MEL on your choice of 3 carriers :haha:

I wasn't trying to downplay YVR (I'm a big YVR booster LOL) I was trying to show how YVR relies proportionally less on international sun vacations for its international numbers than many other airports, which is a positive IMO. Firstly if you were counting MEX in your numbers then you shouldn't, it isn't a sun vacation destination like PVR or CUN. I put MEX in the same category as major international world cities and capitals, not with the beach flights.

And with the US and Australia flights, I agree those are great sun destinations, but again they aren't in the category I was mentioning. I'm thrilled we have service to 3 Aussie destinations plus NZ non-stop, that was my point, I'm glad we can have unique services like that and year-round heavy service to major international cities than have more one-off weeklies to different sun spots in the Caribbean

Johnny Aussie
Sep 5, 2018, 7:54 AM
I wasn't trying to downplay YVR (I'm a big YVR booster LOL) I was trying to show how YVR relies proportionally less on international sun vacations for its international numbers than many other airports, which is a positive IMO. Firstly if you were counting MEX in your numbers then you shouldn't, it isn't a sun vacation destination like PVR or CUN. I put MEX in the same category as major international world cities and capitals, not with the beach flights.

And with the US and Australia flights, I agree those are great sun destinations, but again they aren't in the category I was mentioning. I'm thrilled we have service to 3 Aussie destinations plus NZ non-stop, that was my point, I'm glad we can have unique services like that and year-round heavy service to major international cities than have more one-off weeklies to different sun spots in the Caribbean

Yup hard to compare sun flying when each market is unique. Vancouver still very heavily Hawaii focussed (just look at those O&D figures!) and to include / exclude LAX? From places like YEG and YYC definitely but from YVR a bit trickier due to business ties. In any event YVR very well connected with a tremendous number of sun destinations to choose from. AM and 4O use MEX as a hub with a plethora of other Mexican and Central American beach destinations. :tup: PHX, DFW and IAH also the same with a large number of beach destinations. PHX definitely a sun destination in its own right but not so much for DFW or IAH. PHX, PSP, MCO and LAS considered “sun destinations” but not with beaches.

thenoflyzone
Sep 5, 2018, 1:22 PM
Does Transport Canada release PDEW data for non-U.S., non-charter/leisure/freight international routes (from Canadian destinations) to the public, like the FAA does?

No. Only transborder. Don't know why, but it is what it is.

Considering Vancouver's large Jewish and Persian communities, could a 3x weekly YVR-TLV or YVR-IKA nonstop be sustained? The 789 could do both.

Large Jewish population? Might want to do some research before saying that. Canada's Jewish population is heavily centered around Toronto and Montreal.

As for IKA, airlines like BA, AF, KL and A3 are canceling their recently launched services to IKA. That should tell you all you need to know about a potential YVR-IKA. Trump's renewed efforts to restore sanctions against Iran is negatively impacting all foreign airlines that fly there.

BTW, Toronto's Iranian community is twice as large as Vancouver's, so even if AC was interested in starting IKA, it would be from YYZ, not YVR.

Johnny Aussie
Sep 6, 2018, 2:00 AM
So how many overseas flights will YVR have this winter?

YVR will have 221-223 flights per week (depending on the month)
YYC will have 27 (24 of those to Europe).
YEG will have 2-3 (depending on the month)

thenoflyzone
Sep 6, 2018, 12:11 PM
So how many overseas flights will YVR have this winter?

YVR will have 221-223 flights per week (depending on the month)
YYC will have 27 (24 of those to Europe).
YEG will have 2-3 (depending on the month)

Comparing YVR to YYC/YEG is pointless. Apples and oranges.

You need to compare it to YYZ/YUL. Much more interesting. :tup:

Johnny Aussie
Sep 6, 2018, 5:18 PM
Comparing YVR to YYC/YEG is pointless. Apples and oranges.

You need to compare it to YYZ/YUL. Much more interesting. :tup:

Maybe for you.

My interest is in Western Canada.

YYC’s international network is primarily sun flying.
YEG’s international network limited.
YVR’s international network much more global (Asia-Pacific focussed though - understandable).

There was a time not long ago YYC-Europe was a bit larger than YVR in the winter and a lot closer in the summer.

Pointless? Comparing to YYZ would be pointless... YYZ is in a league of its own.

As for the rest... not really interested.

thenoflyzone
Sep 6, 2018, 9:02 PM
There was a time not long ago YYC-Europe was a bit larger than YVR in the winter and a lot closer in the summer.

Pointless? Comparing to YYZ would be pointless... YYZ is in a league of its own.

As for the rest... not really interested.

YYC-Europe larger than YVR-Europe in winter? When? Maybe when LH served YYC, but that was short lived, and for a reason. Even back then, YVR-Europe was probably still larger in terms of seats/week.

And YYZ/YVR are closer in terms of weekly overseas flights than YVR/YYC or YVR/YEG. So your comparison above is the definition of pointless.

That's like someone comparing overseas flights at YUL-YOW-YQB. Pointless.

moosejaw
Sep 6, 2018, 9:17 PM
Maybe for you.

My interest is in Western Canada.

YYC’s international network is primarily sun flying.
YEG’s international network limited.
YVR’s international network much more global (Asia-Pacific focussed though - understandable).

There was a time not long ago YYC-Europe was a bit larger than YVR in the winter and a lot closer in the summer.

Pointless? Comparing to YYZ would be pointless... YYZ is in a league of its own.

As for the rest... not really interested.

excellent counterpoint

Johnny Aussie
Sep 6, 2018, 10:12 PM
excellent counterpoint

Thanks :haha:

Like I said my interest is in Western Canada. Totally different markets to Central and Eastern Canada. As a Canadian all of Canada interests me but for the purposes of this forum I’m not really interested in points east of Manitoba.

Being the YVR forum, he has his opinions (clearly) and I have mine.

YYC to Europe had 30 flights per week 2 winters ago... YVR had only 28. Frequencies more / seats less but YYC still had more flights. Once BA comes back (if it does) we will see if that changes next winter.
As it stands this winter to Europe YVR will have 30-32 flights per week (depending on the month) and YYC will have 24.

osirisboy
Sep 6, 2018, 11:18 PM
July stats should be ready. Who's the person that has emailed them and got them to release them? Lol

Johnny Aussie
Sep 7, 2018, 1:08 AM
Speaking of Europe.... :D

FI increasing YVR-KEF to 6 weekly next summer.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/280431/icelandair-s19-network-expansions-as-of-06sep18/

FI697 KEF1715 – 1800YVR 75W x6
FI698 YVR1900 – 0905+1KEF 75W x6

Much better utilisation rather than sitting overnight.

LeftCoaster
Sep 7, 2018, 8:46 PM
Great news, I wonder if WOW has any interest? The two carriers usually mirror services.

deasine
Sep 7, 2018, 8:56 PM
Great news, I wonder if WOW has any interest? The two carriers usually mirror services.

WOW's fleet unfortunately won't allow a West Coast service with its sector length.

LeftCoaster
Sep 7, 2018, 9:01 PM
Well that can't be true, they already serve LAX and SFO.

They fly the A320NEO and A321NEO both of which should easily have the legs. They also have A330s, 3 in service and 4 on order.

Johnny Aussie
Sep 7, 2018, 10:47 PM
Well that can't be true, they already serve LAX and SFO.

They fly the A320NEO and A321NEO both of which should easily have the legs. They also have A330s, 3 in service and 4 on order.

Not sure about the range of their A321neo if it could make it? Westbound may be tough?

They fly the A330s to SFO and LAX which would be way too big for YVR I think.

The Icelandair schedule change is part of a pretty big overhaul of their hub banking at KEF. Be curious to see if they keep it 6 weekly year round.

The seasonality between Western Canada and Europe is so pronounced.

YVR will have 30-32 flights per week this winter but with Icelandair’s announced increase to 6 weekly next summer there will be 104 weekly flights to Europe from YVR.... schedules far from finalised but that’s where it stands now.
YYC goes from 24 this winter to 42 next summer (again, as it stands now)

trofirhen
Sep 7, 2018, 10:48 PM
Well that can't be true, they already serve LAX and SFO.

They fly the A320NEO and A321NEO both of which should easily have the legs. They also have A330s, 3 in service and 4 on order.

Would Vancouver be big enough to provide the market for Icelandair and WOW Air? It would be great if it could, as I understand WOW Air is very reasonably priced.

thenoflyzone
Sep 8, 2018, 11:34 PM
Great news, I wonder if WOW has any interest? The two carriers usually mirror services.

That didnt work out too well for CLE.

Besides, WOW would need to leave its plane in YVR for 20 hours for optimal connections back in KEF (as they only have 1 connecting bank), and unlike FI, WW's fleet is all leased. So not an ideal way of utilizing an aircraft.

WW tried MIA that way and failed. Now they want to give MCO a try. Dont see how that will fare any better. They are starting DEL (with no Russian overflight rights, since they didnt want to pay the fees that go with it, at least according to the Russians), canceled TLV and are cutting CLE (apparently only seasonally, but nothing loaded for S19 yet)

Not a sign of healthy decisions. Which explains why they lost money in 2017, and their customer service is one of the worst in the industry, apparently.

But yes, they do have cheap seats. That's about it.

deasine
Sep 9, 2018, 8:48 PM
Well that can't be true, they already serve LAX and SFO.

They fly the A320NEO and A321NEO both of which should easily have the legs. They also have A330s, 3 in service and 4 on order.

You're right, I'm mixing up they aren't a single-fleet LCC but I'm not sure NEOs range can sufficiently reach YVR on full weight. I think their A330s would be too much to enter into YVR but perhaps its entrance could be scaled accordingly, just as Icelandair has been doing.

CloudInspector
Sep 9, 2018, 11:22 PM
I might be in the minority, but I’d personally rather have Icelandair here and doing well than an LCC like Wow. Maybe in a few years if and when the market matures.

Johnny Aussie
Sep 10, 2018, 12:37 AM
I might be in the minority, but I’d personally rather have Icelandair here and doing well than an LCC like Wow. Maybe in a few years if and when the market matures.

Sounds like Icelandair is doing well here. Unfortunately though if they are doing really well and another airline sees an opportunity.....

zahav
Sep 10, 2018, 8:48 AM
I emailed YVR on Friday abt the stats, and they said the person who posts them is away and they would check on Monday (today)

Johnny Aussie
Sep 10, 2018, 6:48 PM
http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2018/07-july/traffic-update-july-2018-website.pdf?la=en

Another stellar month across the board solid growth in all categories

Total up 7.4% up 180,000
Domestic up 7.1% 82,000
International up 7.6% up 98,000

Transborder up 3.8%
Asia Pacific up 7.3%
Europe up 13.7%
Misc Int’l up 37.5%

YTD hit 15,000,000 up 8.8% and up over 1.2 million

Excellent cargo stats too up 8.0% YTD up 10.8%

nname
Sep 10, 2018, 7:47 PM
August and September stats will be interesting though, with multiple Typhoons and Hurricanes impacting and resulting various flight cancellations. Even though this happens every year, but this year seems to have a much bigger and longer-lasting impacts, especially in Hawaii and Osaka.

AFAIK, 2 flights to/from TPE were canceled on early August, and a few more to/from HNL/OGG canceled later in the month.

In September at least a dozen flights to/from KIX were canceled, and the airport doesn't seem to be opening anytime soon. Hurricane Olivia will hit Hawaii later this week and that might result in more flight cancellations, and then there may be another Typhoon aiming for Taiwan later this month...

Johnny Aussie
Sep 10, 2018, 8:10 PM
Yes it definitely seems worse this year. Very scary storms.
Tragic in some areas.

trofirhen
Sep 10, 2018, 8:33 PM
http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2018/07-july/traffic-update-july-2018-website.pdf?la=en

Another stellar month across the board solid growth in all categories

Total up 7.4% up 180,000
Domestic up 7.1% 82,000
International up 7.6% up 98,000

Transborder up 3.8%
Asia Pacific up 7.3%
Europe up 13.7%
Misc Int’l up 37.5%

YTD hit 15,000,000 up 8.8% and up over 1.2 million

Excellent cargo stats too up 8.0% YTD up 10.8%

Sheesh!! Although no one can say, I can't help wondering what the total 2018 pax count will be at at YVR! :rolleyes:

LeftCoaster
Sep 10, 2018, 8:52 PM
Not sure about the range of their A321neo if it could make it? Westbound may be tough?

I would think it has the legs, even westbound in the winter.

YYZ-BER and YYZ-FRA are both decently longer and being run by the 737MAX which I believe has a lower theoretical max range than the 320/321NEO. Vancouver to Iceland seems to have more E/W than Toronto-Europe, but it's still majority N/S and is 500 miles shorter than YYZ-BER.

That didnt work out too well for CLE.

Besides, WOW would need to leave its plane in YVR for 20 hours for optimal connections back in KEF (as they only have 1 connecting bank), and unlike FI, WW's fleet is all leased. So not an ideal way of utilizing an aircraft.

I think even you can agree the YVR market is not Cleveland...

I'm no expert regarding the WOW banks at REK, but AFAIK they have two banks already so they should be able to do the same turn Icelandair has just proposed.

August and September stats will be interesting though, with multiple Typhoons and Hurricanes impacting and resulting various flight cancellations. Even though this happens every year, but this year seems to have a much bigger and longer-lasting impacts, especially in Hawaii and Osaka.

AFAIK, 2 flights to/from TPE were canceled on early August, and a few more to/from HNL/OGG canceled later in the month.

In September at least a dozen flights to/from KIX were canceled, and the airport doesn't seem to be opening anytime soon. Hurricane Olivia will hit Hawaii later this week and that might result in more flight cancellations, and then there may be another Typhoon aiming for Taiwan later this month...

Bunch of smaller flights got cancelled because of the smoke in early August too. Could definitely all have an effect.

Johnny Aussie
Sep 10, 2018, 9:20 PM
Definitely these disastrous events will have an impact on numbers.

SE Australia early forecasts are for a bad fire season here too.

Looking at YYC compared to YVR growth in July.... YYC’s growth rate was much higher but it was entirely due to Domestic growth. In fact domestic at YYC > YVR again in July. YYC’s transborder growth was anemic and international actually was negative. YEG international also backpedalled significantly in July due to a low base anyway. YEG’s transborder increase also due to a very low base... chuck in an extra flight or two and looks like it’s skyrocketing.

Really emphasises YYC and YEG more domestic.

YVR’s non-transborder international growth was 11.2% In July. Well ahead of any other Canadian airport. Highest in growth % and aggregate of those reporting so far.

nname
Sep 10, 2018, 10:49 PM
YYC’s growth rate was much higher but it was entirely due to Domestic growth.

Maybe that's in part due to the new domestic services WS added so people skip over YVR and do YQQ-YYC-YYZ or YCD-YYC-YYZ. That adds 2 to the domestic number, isn't it? :D

Johnny Aussie
Sep 10, 2018, 11:31 PM
Maybe that's in part due to the new domestic services WS added so people skip over YVR and do YQQ-YYC-YYZ or YCD-YYC-YYZ. That adds 2 to the domestic number, isn't it? :D

That’s what I was alluding to.... YYC increasingly domestic oriented.

YVR’s domestic increase of 7.1% Impressive considering all these flights
overflying YVR. :D :haha:

LeftCoaster
Sep 10, 2018, 11:40 PM
Ya I was surprised at the impressive numbers in domestic, when I saw that I thought woah going to be a 10% growth month. Would have been close if not for the relatively low transborder numbrs.

Europe looks great though, soaking up most, if not all, of the extra capacity added by AC and others. As I calculate it YVR-Europe added about 12.8% more seats for peak summer 2018, so 13.7% is a fantastic result. Given that fares were generally pretty high all summer too, I'd imagine the yields were pretty decent as well.

Asia looked like a great result too. I only show a 4.8% increase in seat capacity between summer 2017 and summer 2018 so that must be a huge boost in loads if PAX were up 7.3%. Hope those loads are high because TPac fares are stupid low.

I wonder what happened to Transborder though, the increase in seats was in the 6-7% range as far as I can tell but only 3.8% growth, so there must have been some quiet planes.

thenoflyzone
Sep 11, 2018, 12:07 AM
I would think it has the legs, even westbound in the winter.

YYZ-BER and YYZ-FRA are both decently longer and being run by the 737MAX which I believe has a lower theoretical max range than the 320/321NEO. Vancouver to Iceland seems to have more E/W than Toronto-Europe, but it's still majority N/S and is 500 miles shorter than YYZ-BER.



I think even you can agree the YVR market is not Cleveland...

I'm no expert regarding the WOW banks at REK, but AFAIK they have two banks already so they should be able to do the same turn Icelandair has just proposed.


The A321neo definately has the legs for KEF-YVR, yes.

And you are correct, YVR isn't CLE, just illustrating that FI and WW launching the same route can backfire.

And yes, after some more in depth research, WOW does indeed have a second, although limited, departure bank to Europe. One that leaves KEF around noon. LAX and SFO connect onto this departure bank, and both cities are served with quick turnarounds. So seems as though a quick turnaround at YVR is possible, if they so wish. Which begs the question, why the long layover in MIA and MCO? They are both the same distance from KEF as YVR, hence my initial thought of a long layover.

thenoflyzone
Sep 11, 2018, 12:53 AM
In September at least a dozen flights to/from KIX were canceled, and the airport doesn't seem to be opening anytime soon. Hurricane Olivia will hit Hawaii later this week and that might result in more flight cancellations, and then there may be another Typhoon aiming for Taiwan later this month...

KIX is open, but with limited number of flights out of T2 only. Also only one runway operational for now.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/recovery-continues-at-osakas-kansai-international-a-451776/

nname
Sep 11, 2018, 12:57 AM
KIX is open, but with limited number of flights.

Well, I meant, opening for long-haul flights. Right now there's only domestic flights and a few narrow-body international flights to China, Taiwan, and Korea. It will certainly going to take some time before AC and run their Rouge 767 in/out of KIX again.

Gordon
Sep 11, 2018, 2:24 AM
Those are great pax numbers, if Aug thru Dec remain strong we could be between 25 & 26 million passengers.

It will be interesting to see if yve can get anything like this growth next year. Seeing that there have been no major route announcements confirmne for next year yet.

Johnny Aussie
Sep 11, 2018, 7:19 AM
Europe looks great though, soaking up most, if not all, of the extra capacity added by AC and others. As I calculate it YVR-Europe added about 12.8% more seats for peak summer 2018, so 13.7% is a fantastic result. Given that fares were generally pretty high all summer too, I'd imagine the yields were pretty decent as well.

Asia looked like a great result too. I only show a 4.8% increase in seat capacity between summer 2017 and summer 2018 so that must be a huge boost in loads if PAX were up 7.3%. Hope those loads are high because TPac fares are stupid low.

I wonder what happened to Transborder though, the increase in seats was in the 6-7% range as far as I can tell but only 3.8% growth, so there must have been some quiet planes.

I’m sure YVR to Europe and Asia Pacific would be having increased load factors.
I’m pretty sure YVR also had the highest LF for transborder last year so even if capacity outstripped demand they should still be relatively high. Not sure about “quiet planes” but perhaps some routes maybe slipped from high 80s / low
90s to high 80s / mid-low 80s. It’s all relative isn’t it.

nname
Sep 11, 2018, 7:22 AM
Seems like YVR-NGO had been removed from AC's system in this week's schedule update.

Johnny Aussie
Sep 11, 2018, 10:03 AM
Seems like YVR-NGO had been removed from AC's system in this week's schedule update.

Boooo. Guess we will have to see what happens with Dublin.

Meanwhile.... today JAL marked its 50th anniversary of YVR service....

https://mobile.twitter.com/yvrairport/status/1039348188996497408

https://mobile.twitter.com/yvrairport/status/1039341920755937280

thenoflyzone
Sep 11, 2018, 12:09 PM
It will be interesting to see if yve can get anything like this growth next year. Seeing that there have been no major route announcements confirmne for next year yet.

The answer is pretty obvious, what with no route announcements so far and only cancelations.

PR canceling JFK
WS canceling MEX
AC canceling MCO, NGO (and maybe DUB)

Last year this time, AC had already announced ZRH and CDG. The annoucement was end of August, in fact.

Seems YVR has plateau'd. Like I said, 14 new destinations by 2020 is unrealistic.

Still, other airlines are increasing frequency on some routes, so growth will continue, just not at the level of the last few years.

thenoflyzone
Sep 11, 2018, 12:20 PM
YYC increasingly domestic oriented.



YYC was always domestic oriented. It's never been anything else.

Gordon
Sep 11, 2018, 2:37 PM
Just did a quick check AC does have the NGO flight operating in June , not sure the frequency.

nname
Sep 11, 2018, 4:26 PM
The answer is pretty obvious, what with no route announcements so far and only cancelations.

PR canceling JFK
WS canceling MEX
AC canceling MCO, NGO (and maybe DUB)

Last year this time, AC had already announced ZRH and CDG. The annoucement was end of August, in fact.

Seems YVR has plateau'd. Like I said, 14 new destinations by 2020 is unrealistic.

Still, other airlines are increasing frequency on some routes, so growth will continue, just not at the level of the last few years.

That's a grand total of 1 destination lost there. And neither AC nor WS had announced any new summer destination so far. They might be waiting for each other.

YVR-DUB should be fine, as the route had been put on sale. YVR-NGO had been full-fare only for the past couple of months.

thenoflyzone
Sep 11, 2018, 7:48 PM
That's a grand total of 1 destination lost there. And neither AC nor WS had announced any new summer destination so far. They might be waiting for each other.

YVR-DUB should be fine, as the route had been put on sale. YVR-NGO had been full-fare only for the past couple of months.

Since when has AC waited on WS for anything?

Lancaster
Sep 12, 2018, 4:14 AM
Since when has AC waited on WS for anything?

Since when has WestJet taken delivery of 787s?

No doubt there will be some form of competitive response to whatever move WestJet makes.

zahav
Sep 12, 2018, 6:33 AM
I'm not sure how much traffic is impacted by those things, I'd have thought many of those people would be rebooked pretty quick. We'll see how the numbers look and then let the guessing games begin :)

PS, does anyone think Trump has caused decreased tourism to the US? Ie. do you think many people have actually postponed travel there because of the political/social climate? I'd be so curious to see any empirical data related to this. Also have always been curious what % of transborder traffic is American coming here or Canadians going there. Any guesses what % is each?

thenoflyzone
Sep 12, 2018, 1:58 PM
Since when has WestJet taken delivery of 787s?



As of today, never ! ;)

And if you really think AC is waiting on WS to launch new international destinations out of YVR, you are sadly mistaken.

Bet you WestJet's first 787 destination from YVR is already served by AC !

YYCguys
Sep 12, 2018, 2:00 PM
Since when has WestJet taken delivery of 787s?

First three deliveries expected early next year! :tup:

trofirhen
Sep 12, 2018, 2:56 PM
I can't help wondering if Westjets new fleet of 787s will make YYC a larger overseas hub, competing strongly with YVR. Is the market there for that?
Or, conversely, would they base most of their Asia flights out of YVR anyway? (There was a diagram once, showing routes to SCL and Lima, but that's a long shot, I know)
Feedback welcome.:)

roger1818
Sep 12, 2018, 3:27 PM
I can't help wondering if Westjets new fleet of 787s will make YYC a larger overseas hub, competing strongly with YVR. Is the market there for that?

That is my thought as well, especially if they pick destinations that AC doesn't fly to from YYZ. From eastern Canada, flying via YYC is shorter than via YVR (though not as short as via YYZ). They would sacrifice the BC market (which is already well served by AC and others), but gain the rest of Canada.

Or, conversely, would they base most of their Asia flights out of YVR anyway? (There was a diagram once, showing routes to SCL and Lima, but that's a long shot, I know)
Feedback welcome.:)

To be honest, I doubt it. I don't know if there is enough demand for currently un-served destinations to make any viable (otherwise someone else would offer it as a routing). Besides, WS doesn't have enough direct flights to YVR to make connections work well.

casper
Sep 12, 2018, 3:36 PM
That is my thought as well, especially if they pick destinations that AC doesn't fly to from YYZ. From eastern Canada, flying via YYC is shorter than via YVR (though not as short as via YYZ). They would sacrifice the BC market (which is already well served by AC and others), but gain the rest of Canada.



To be honest, I doubt it. I don't know if there is enough demand for currently un-served destinations to make any viable (otherwise someone else would offer it as a routing). Besides, WS doesn't have enough direct flights to YVR to make connections work well.

WS needs to show the 787 are a success from the start. They are not going to go to Asia in the first year. It will likely be displacing the 767 going to London and maybe a partner destination in a place like Paris.

whatnext
Sep 12, 2018, 4:02 PM
I'm not sure how much traffic is impacted by those things, I'd have thought many of those people would be rebooked pretty quick. We'll see how the numbers look and then let the guessing games begin :)

PS, does anyone think Trump has caused decreased tourism to the US? Ie. do you think many people have actually postponed travel there because of the political/social climate? I'd be so curious to see any empirical data related to this. Also have always been curious what % of transborder traffic is American coming here or Canadians going there. Any guesses what % is each?

International tourism to the USA has fallen under Trump. Sadly Canada is one of the few foreign countries bucking that trend, sending more visitors to the USA than in previous years.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/fewer-tourists-are-visiting-the-us-under-trump-canadians-didnt-get-the-memo

DDP
Sep 12, 2018, 4:51 PM
Speaking of Europe.... :D

FI increasing YVR-KEF to 6 weekly next summer.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/280431/icelandair-s19-network-expansions-as-of-06sep18/

FI697 KEF1715 – 1800YVR 75W x6
FI698 YVR1900 – 0905+1KEF 75W x6

Much better utilisation rather than sitting overnight.

They are rebanking KEF next sumer, they had planes sitting over night all over North America, that is coming to an end as they grow.

DDP
Sep 12, 2018, 4:54 PM
International tourism to the USA has fallen under Trump. Sadly Canada is one of the few foreign countries bucking that trend, sending more visitors to the USA than in previous years.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/fewer-tourists-are-visiting-the-us-under-trump-canadians-didnt-get-the-memo

How much of that is Trump, how much of that is dollar related?

Also, there is a prof that said this?

“I refused to enter apartheid South Africa, too,” Jen Marchbank, a professor at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia told the Toronto Star. “I see little difference between the U.S. today and apartheid South Africa in terms of ethics and morals.”

What the holly hell.

memememe76
Sep 12, 2018, 7:09 PM
Canadians have fewer choices when it comes to affordable and short trips. And unlike Europeans, Canadians don't normally get extended holidays (My holidays tend to be one week long).

Myself, I still go to the US to visit family, friend's wedding, etc. But on those "I just feeling like going there" type of trips, I am visiting more European and Asian cities. I love going to those places, but they aren't exactly cheap. It's not like a trip to Vegas. I have also spent more time visiting Canada. Went to Regina for the first time last. I am going to Tofino for the first time this year. Hoping to visit Winnipeg next year. But for a fun sun-filled Xmas holiday, where can you go in Canada?

For anyone outside NA, traveling to the US (and Canada, for that matter) is a big deal. Any little thing that could dissuade a person from traveling there will make a different.

Johnny Aussie
Sep 12, 2018, 9:11 PM
Minor change but more jet equipment.

AS back to 5 daily to SEA (same as last winter)

2 mainline (1 daily 739 1 daily 738)
But 2 of the 3 Horizon flights will be on E75s. —> New equipment on this route
The remaining Horizon flight will be on a DH4.

PDX remains unchanged at 1 daily DH4.

Gordon
Sep 13, 2018, 2:14 AM
It looks like those AS changes are only Seasonal, They seem to be back to all q400s & 1 739 next summer.

I wonder why Alaska never uses bridges gates for their Q400s like AC does?

YYCguys
Sep 13, 2018, 2:23 AM
I wonder why Alaska never uses bridges gates for their Q400s like AC does?

Cost or availability perhaps?

zahav
Sep 13, 2018, 7:00 AM
Forgot to mention regarding the YVR, YUL, YYC figures. YVR is still ahead of YYC for YTD for all categories (domestic, transborder, international (non-transborder), international (incl. transborder) and overall). In both % and absolute numbers, YVR is growing more than YYC for domestic and YTD is about 235,000 ahead. Granted this gap could very well narrow before year's end, but 7 months in those are the facts, so we have actually gained relatively more domestic pax than YYC. Obviously their downtown had a lot to do with it, but their downturn didn't mean we would grow, but we still did

s211
Sep 13, 2018, 5:01 PM
How much of that is Trump, how much of that is dollar related?

Also, there is a prof that said this?

“I refused to enter apartheid South Africa, too,” Jen Marchbank, a professor at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia told the Toronto Star. “I see little difference between the U.S. today and apartheid South Africa in terms of ethics and morals.”

What the holly hell.

The answer is in the snippet you posted. I'm zero % a Trump fan, but when people make quotes like that, they do their constituency a disfavour.

LeftCoaster
Sep 13, 2018, 11:57 PM
The answer is pretty obvious, what with no route announcements so far and only cancelations.

PR canceling JFK
WS canceling MEX
AC canceling MCO, NGO (and maybe DUB)

Last year this time, AC had already announced ZRH and CDG. The annoucement was end of August, in fact.

Seems YVR has plateau'd. Like I said, 14 new destinations by 2020 is unrealistic.

Still, other airlines are increasing frequency on some routes, so growth will continue, just not at the level of the last few years.

Well was there some AC announcement YVR missed out on? As far as I can tell they are just late in announcing any Summer 19 plans.

Plenty of growth to come, but you can keep crossing your fingers for the downfall of YVR, you've been predicting it for years now.

LeftCoaster
Sep 14, 2018, 12:01 AM
London Stanstead singling out Vancouver, among others, as routes they are targeting for future service. Might make sense for a future LCC, but Vancouver to London is already pretty damn well served and Brexit is not going to do wonders for demand...

https://mediacentre.stanstedairport.com/london-stansted-sets-sights-on-long-haul-growth/

nname
Sep 14, 2018, 2:06 AM
Well was there some AC announcement YVR missed out on? As far as I can tell they are just late in announcing any Summer 19 plans.

Plenty of growth to come, but you can keep crossing your fingers for the downfall of YVR, you've been predicting it for years now.

There had been no new route announcement for S19 so far. Network-wise, just the change of KIX from Rouge to mainline; cancellation of NGO plus one other route I forgot; some mainline flights becomes express in YYZ; some seasonal flight becomes year-round; some year-route routes becomes seasonal; consolidation of some domestic express routes in the East; and swapping express flight numbers as always...

Overall the big ones are the addition of daily summer flight of YEG-LAS and YVR-YZF, plus the loss of NGO. All other changes are 1x/2x weekly sun destination flights. The YYZ-BOS change I'm too unfamiliar with the route to come to a conclusion.

Of course, I didn't check any upgauge or downgauge... or frequency and mainline/rouge/express changes that doesn't result in addition or loss of flight numbers...

Johnny Aussie
Sep 14, 2018, 3:05 AM
It looks like those AS changes are only Seasonal, They seem to be back to all q400s & 1 739 next summer.

I wonder why Alaska never uses bridges gates for their Q400s like AC does?

Alaska would be far from finalising next summer’s schedules anyway. On a flight that’s less than one hour I don’t think it would even matter really and capacity wise practically the same.

Also as far as AC is concerned... domestic and transborder don’t usually get finalised until early in the new year. If there are changes now that’s probably due to a shift in phasing out embraers.

I think though the rapid growth YVR has been experiencing in the last two - three years will slow down based on what’s coming online. YTD YVR has snuck ahead of ORD for int’l. If that’s remains? Who knows.

The bright side is YVR has escaped any major loss of service compared to YYC and YEG for long haul.

NGO - North America has always been a struggle. The only remaining route to North America will be DTW on DL (still strong with auto connections). So it’s probably more of a reflection on NGO’s end rather than YVR’s. It was certainly one of the few routes from YVR that made sense for Rouge. But realisticly there were very few other rouge-able routes to Asia. The practicality of rouge in the west is not as strong as in the east. Let them enjoy the discomfort :)

thenoflyzone
Sep 14, 2018, 12:16 PM
London Stanstead singling out Vancouver, among others, as routes they are targeting for future service. Might make sense for a future LCC, but Vancouver to London is already pretty damn well served and Brexit is not going to do wonders for demand...

https://mediacentre.stanstedairport.com/london-stansted-sets-sights-on-long-haul-growth/

Full list.

HKG, LAX, SFO, NRT, YUL, ORD, MIA, CAN, SIN, DEL, PEK, BKK, BOM, JNB, ICN, PVG, KWI, MNL, YVR, CMB

Wishful thinking for the most part.

Norwegian is staying put in LGW, so dont see them starting anything out of STN. It will be hard attracting Asian or North American carriers away from LHR or LGW as well.

Primera could bite and launch YUL, but their aircraft dont have the range for anything else in North America. That's why it's the only destination in that list that might come online.

STN is a busy airport. It handled nearly 26 million passengers last year. People keep complaining about how busy the terminal building is, and the lack of space. Seems to me Manchester Airports Group (MAG), the operator of STN, needs to spend money on expanding the terminal before subsidizing routes left, right and center.

The practicality of rouge in the west is not as strong as in the east. Let them enjoy the discomfort :)

Would hardly call the launching of new routes and destinations "discomforting".

officedweller
Sep 14, 2018, 11:00 PM
MacArthur Glen Outlet Expansion

By City of Rain Aug 19th:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1872/44157497241_2ea97fda02_b.jpg20180819_135608 ('https://flic.kr/p/2ah3Hvk') by Hung Lam ('https://www.flickr.com/photos/147784253@N06/'), on Flickr


https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1835/43252022525_8087a9cdd0_b.jpg20180819_135613 ('https://flic.kr/p/28U2Vqi') by Hung Lam ('https://www.flickr.com/photos/147784253@N06/'), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1900/43252011685_3731f17703_b.jpg20180819_140012 ('https://flic.kr/p/28U2Scp') by Hung Lam ('https://www.flickr.com/photos/147784253@N06/'), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1872/29219998937_ac990c9994_b.jpg20180819_140021 ('https://flic.kr/p/Lw58F8') by Hung Lam ('https://www.flickr.com/photos/147784253@N06/'), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1882/43252018825_9435afb2ca_b.jpg20180819_135616 ('https://flic.kr/p/28U2Ujv') by Hung Lam ('https://www.flickr.com/photos/147784253@N06/'), on Flickr

scryer
Sep 14, 2018, 11:05 PM
I hope that they continue with the faux heritage village look that they got going on there. I'm glad to see the outlet mall expand so quickly since it was constructed (like 2014ish iirc).

Gordon
Sep 14, 2018, 11:13 PM
That's going to be a sizeable expansion, how much more traffic is that gong to add to Sea Island?

Is there any info about the progress on the terminal expansion projects, I can't get any info from YVR?

CloudInspector
Sep 15, 2018, 9:17 PM
Singapore wants a non-stop flight to YVR:

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-to-singapore-airlines-flight-demand

A good route for SQ? AC? Very off chance, WS?

teriyaki
Sep 15, 2018, 10:59 PM
I hope that they continue with the faux heritage village look that they got going on there. I'm glad to see the outlet mall expand so quickly since it was constructed (like 2014ish iirc).

Definitely want to see it themed. However, part of me wants them to differentiate the theme. Kind of like a theme park even, you've now stepped into future-land :P

trofirhen
Sep 15, 2018, 11:52 PM
Singapore wants a non-stop flight to YVR:

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-to-singapore-airlines-flight-demand

A good route for SQ? AC? Very off chance, WS?

Well yippee-i-o, that IS good news, Big Time!! It would largely help round out YVR's Pacific basin coverage , and is one of the "Big Three" route additions I'd personally like for YVR.

(The other two are São Paulo and Istanbul, but they seem "iffy" at best.... although Johnny mentioned a couple of years back at his surprise at the level of O&D traffic between Vancouver & Brazil, plus TK knocking on the door trying to get 3x/week YVR - IST)

thenoflyzone
Sep 16, 2018, 1:01 AM
Singapore wants a non-stop flight to YVR:

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-to-singapore-airlines-flight-demand

A good route for SQ? AC? Very off chance, WS?

Nothing new here. Same info from 3 months ago.

https://www.anna.aero/2018/07/04/singapore-vancouver-is-skyscanner-unserved-route-of-the-week-with-130000-searches/

30,000 isn't that great of an O&D number for such a long route in my opinion. It's only 41 PDEW. Still, a non stop will stimulate the market, so the route could materialize in 2019 or 2020. Fuel prices going up isn't helping the matter.

osirisboy
Sep 16, 2018, 1:40 AM
Singapore wants a non-stop flight to YVR:

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-to-singapore-airlines-flight-demand

A good route for SQ? AC? Very off chance, WS?

That's great. Not really surprised by it though. Also good to see yvr and Brazil is imminent

SpongeG
Sep 16, 2018, 6:47 AM
took this, this afternoon, parked out there

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1843/29772370207_c8cfd0d089_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/MmTbpH)2018-09-16_12-43-58 (https://flic.kr/p/MmTbpH) by snub_you (https://www.flickr.com/photos/spongeg/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1891/42899508910_d915cc0879_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/28mTcpm)2018-09-16_12-43-30 (https://flic.kr/p/28mTcpm) by snub_you (https://www.flickr.com/photos/spongeg/), on Flickr

There was also what I think was a Hong Kong airlines plane parked over by the Pier B, westjet area

trofirhen
Sep 16, 2018, 10:57 AM
That's great. Not really surprised by it though. Also good to see yvr and Brazil is imminent

Yes. A route to Brazil would be a MAJOR breakthrough to Vancouver.

teriyaki
Sep 16, 2018, 1:34 PM
took this, this afternoon, parked out there


There was also what I think was a Hong Kong airlines plane parked over by the Pier B, westjet area

Prudent operational planning to have their aircraft at the outport station (YVR) instead of home (HKG) where there's a level 10 super typhoon wreaking havoc on everything thats not bolted down.

Denscity
Sep 16, 2018, 3:02 PM
It's crazy there isn't a YUL thread. Is it's following too lame to have one or do they just want to pump themselves up in front of the rest of the country in the national thread?

thenoflyzone
Sep 16, 2018, 3:13 PM
It's crazy there isn't a YUL thread. Is it's following too lame to have one or do they just want to pump themselves up in front of the rest of the country in the national thread?

The YUL and YYZ pages are pretty dormant, hence the posts on the Canadian airports page. YHM has a pretty active page, and yet people still post in the national page. As do people from this thread mind you. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Pretty straighforward criteria to post in the national page methinks.

1. Are you posting about a Canadian airport? If yes.
2. Go ahead