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nname
Oct 17, 2018, 10:17 AM
If I were a betting man, I'd say there's not much else - long haul wise- left to come.

And so I modify my script to get all flight time and arrange them for aircraft utilization on all widebody mainline routes (including domestic and transcon), and this is what I got:

450 seater 777-300ER
Current schedule needs 8, but AC only have 7... Can't managed to squeeze them down to 7 though, but one of them barely doing any work other than YVR-YYZ-YVR

400 seater 777-300ER
Current schedule needs 10, and AC have 12... quite a bit of spare time at YYZ to swap thing around, but not enough for any long-haul. One of the plane would probably replace a 450-seater route, what about the other one??

Mainline 763
Current schedule only need 4... so 2 will get retired?

A330
Current schedule need 9, AC only have 8 with 4 on order. One plane is free on day 13, while another is indeed only doing YUL-YVR-YUL.

777-200LR
Current schedule need 6, and AC indeed have 6. Almost 3/4 day of spare time at YYZ

787-8
Current schedule need 8, and AC indeed have 8. About half of day of spare time at both YVR and YYZ each.

787-9
Current schedule need 29, and AC will have 29 after all order arrives, but then:

The widebody from EWR connects nicely to the DEL flight at YVR
AC 44 789 (247) D YVR - DEL 01:30 - 04:00 14 ...2
AC 45 789 (247) D DEL - YVR 06:10 - 07:30 13.8
AC 548 789 (247) D YVR - EWR 08:45 - 16:50 5.1
AC 549 789 (247) D EWR - YVR 18:20 - 21:10 5.8

The long hual from YUL does require 4 planes, but one of them will be sitting at YUL almost all day
AC 5 789 (247) D YUL - NRT 14:05 - 15:50 12.8 ...2
AC 6 789 (247) D NRT - YUL 17:30 - 16:30 12
AC 874 789 (247) D YUL - FRA 19:15 - 08:20 7.1
AC 875 789 (247) D FRA - YUL 10:00 - 11:40 7.7

AC 11 789 (247) D YUL - PVG 13:30 - 15:25 13.9 ...2 (!)
AC 12 789 (247) D PVG - YUL 16:50 - 18:15 13.4

The trans-con YUL-YVR flight, now a 789, does not fit within the time at YUL, but does fit nicely for YVR when it connects to the MEL flight
AC 37 789 (247) 1357 YVR - MEL 22:50 - 08:00 16.2 ...2 (!)
AC 38 789 (247) 2357 MEL - YVR 09:40 - 07:35 14.9
AC 314 789 (247) D YVR - YUL 09:10 - 16:48 4.6
AC 309 789 (247) D YUL - YVR 18:35 - 20:48 5.2

There is currently only one 789 run scheduled between YVR and YYZ, but it also does not fit within that schedule. It does connect nicely with the 3 night time ULH from YYZ though. So I put it this way
AC 46 789 (247) 1357 YYZ - BOM 21:15 - 21:30 14.8 ...2
AC 47 789 (247) 1246 BOM - YYZ 23:30 - 05:15 15.3
AC 56 789 (247) 246 YYZ - DXB 23:00 - 19:50 12.8
AC 57 789 (247) 357 DXB - YYZ 23:30 - 05:10 13.7
AC 183 789 (247) D YYZ - YVR 07:30 - 09:13 4.7
AC 112 789 (247) D YVR - YYZ 11:00 - 18:21 4.4

AC 42 789 (247) D YYZ - DEL 22:15 - 21:35 13.8 ...2
AC 43 789 (247) D DEL - YYZ 00:10 - 05:05 14.4
AC 791 789 (247) D YYZ - LAX 08:00 - 10:11 5.2
AC 792 789 (247) D LAX - YYZ 11:45 - 19:19 4.6

AC 90 789 (247) D YYZ - GRU 23:15 - 10:05 9.8 ...2
AC 91 789 (247) D GRU - YYZ 20:00 - 05:00 10
AC 737 789 (247) D YYZ - SFO 08:00 - 10:35 5.6
AC 738 789 (247) D SFO - YYZ 12:05 - 20:05 5

One plane with a whole lot (23hr!) of spare time at YVR also does not fit nicely with any of these
AC 854 789 (247) D YVR - LHR 17:50 - 11:05 9.3 ...3 (!)
AC 851 789 (247) D LHR - YYC 13:05 - 14:55 8.8
AC 850 789 (247) D YYC - LHR 18:25 - 10:00 8.6
AC 897 789 (247) D LHR - YVR 16:15 - 17:40 9.4
(note, LHR is the only 789 route from YYC, and AC does not run 789 to LHR from YYZ and YUL, so that's the only way to arrange this)

So that's it, unless some plane are going out of service, AC would have a minimum of a 77W, a 333 at YUL for day 13, and a 789 at YVR for day 246 to create new route and/or add frequency. Unless, they are going to make the plane spending lots of time on the ground?

On a side note, I think AC saved a plane by reducing the time sitting at LHR?

Johnny Aussie
Oct 17, 2018, 8:00 PM
I think Agamemnon has just solved part of the mystery. That schedule rotation with YUL is spot on. Looks like a 4/3 split with YUL on DUB.

So does YUL-DUB get rouged or does YVR - DUB and YUL - DUB get upgauged mainline.

Since the 7M8 is not an option on YVR-DUB perhaps it goes mainline 333.

That would mean YVR long haul goes 100% mainline and au revoir rouge! That would be a great outcome for service levels and solidify YVR as the second largest AC longhaul mainline hub.

And nnname... I admire your perseverance in solving the remaining long haul mysteries. Can I hire you? Love your initiative!

nname
Oct 17, 2018, 8:06 PM
I think Agamemnon has just solved part of the mystery. That schedule rotation with YUL is spot on. Looks like a 4/3 split with YUL on DUB.

So does YUL-DUB get rouged or does YVR - DUB and YUL - DUB get upgauged mainline.

Since the 7M8 is not an option on YVR-DUB perhaps it goes mainline 333.

That would mean YVR long haul goes 100% mainline and au revoir rouge! That would be a great outcome for service levels and solidify YVR as the second largest AC longhaul mainline hub.

And nnname... I admire your perseverance in solving the remaining long haul mysteries. Can I hire you? Love your initiative!

AC just move ALG to mainline, so that free up 5x weekly Rouge, but also leave a 333 with 2x weekly left at YUL.

So for Rouge fleet, including the 4x weekly assigned to DUB, there's currently 9x weekly that can be go into another route, so moving YUL-DUB to Rouge more of a possibility now.

thenoflyzone
Oct 17, 2018, 8:08 PM
I think Agamemnon has just solved part of the mystery. That schedule rotation with YUL is spot on. Looks like a 4/3 split with YUL on DUB.

So does YUL-DUB get rouged or does YVR - DUB and YUL - DUB get upgauged mainline.

Since the 7M8 is not an option on YVR-DUB perhaps it goes mainline 333.

That would mean YVR long haul goes 100% mainline and au revoir rouge! That would be a great outcome for service levels and solidify YVR as the second largest AC longhaul mainline hub.

And nnname... I admire your perseverance in solving the remaining long haul mysteries. Can I hire you? Love your initiative!

YUL-DUB going Rouge or A333 is a massive increase in seats compared to the 7M8. With the impending YYC-DUB, that's a lot of capacity dumped on Canada-Ireland all of a sudden.

AC just move ALG to mainline, so that free up 5x weekly Rouge, but also leave a 333 with 2x weekly left at YUL.

So for Rouge fleet, including the 4x weekly assigned to DUB, there's currently 9x weekly that can be go into another route, so moving YUL-DUB to Rouge more of a possibility now.

Weird. YUL-ALG is showing double daily on the days it operates. One by Rouge, one by mainline A333. Must be an error. The flights dont even leave at the same time.

Assuming it's an error, does it free up Rouge? Dont forget, several Rouge routes are getting increases next summer.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/280959/air-canada-rouge-s19-long-haul-changes-as-of-10oct18/?highlight=rouge

Montreal – Bucharest 25JUN19 – 28AUG19 Increase from 2 to 3 weekly
Montreal – Lima eff 01MAY19 Northern summer service operates 3 weekly, compared to 2 in NS18
Toronto – Berlin Tegel 23JUN19 – 16SEP19 Increase from 4 to 6 weekly
Toronto – Bogota eff 01MAY19 Increase from 5 weekly in NS18 to 7 weekly
Toronto – Bucharest 24JUN19 – 03SEP19 Increase from 2 to 3 weekly
Toronto – Manchester 22JUN19 – 17SEP19 Increase from 5 to 7 weekly
Toronto – Warsaw eff 02JUN19 Seasonal service operated by rouge, replacing Mainline 767

Like I said, were going to see a lot of adjustments in the next weeks. It's already started.

nname
Oct 17, 2018, 8:16 PM
Does it free up Rouge though? Dont forget, several Rouge routes are getting increases next summer.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/280959/air-canada-rouge-s19-long-haul-changes-as-of-10oct18/?highlight=rouge

Yes it does. Before the change, the Rouge fleet usage was a break-even.

YVR lost 7x weekly Hawaii flights, 3x weekly of NGO, 6x weekly KIX, and 1x weekly DUB
= total -17x weekly

YYZ gained 7x weekly for conversion of WAW, and 7x weekly other increases
= total +14 weekly

YUL gain 3x weekly from frequency increase
= total +3 weekly


AC haven't removed the Rouge ALG flights yet, the change was made last night (which took me some time to figure out because the first run of my script shows fleet requirement of 8 A333s, and the second run shows 9. I thought I broke something...)

thenoflyzone
Oct 17, 2018, 8:27 PM
I thought I broke something...)

lol.

Interesting that North African routes are going mainline so quickly. First CMN, now ALG.

No complaints on my end. Seems to solidify the A333 base at YUL.

osirisboy
Oct 17, 2018, 8:45 PM
Why does Montreal always come up in this thread?

Johnny Aussie
Oct 17, 2018, 9:20 PM
It makes somebody feel good about themselves.

I mentioned YUL too! :P

My comments though were in relation to YVR-DUB and Agamemnon nailed it.

thenoflyzone
Oct 17, 2018, 9:44 PM
Why does Montreal always come up in this thread?

Have you not be been reading ?

canlynx
Oct 17, 2018, 9:49 PM
Why does Montreal always come up in this thread?

We have a resident YUL fan around here. Just to remind us how inferior YVR is in every way.

osirisboy
Oct 17, 2018, 9:58 PM
Have you not be been reading ?

What?! Yeah. That's why I asked! Lol

nname
Oct 17, 2018, 10:08 PM
I guess I'm guilty for mentioning YUL though, but it was about the possibility of DUB to remain Rouge.

Also, noticed the crazy price to MEX during Christmas break... $1800+ round-trip? I wonder why WS couldn't last for another 2 months to cash in on that??

During the three busiest week, Interjet is adding service to both MEX and CUN routes, so the service will run 7-8x weekly to both destinations (not daily though, as some days will have 2 flights and some day with none).

thenoflyzone
Oct 17, 2018, 10:17 PM
I guess I'm guilty for mentioning YUL though.

When you and Johhny do it, no issues. I utter the word "YUL", in response no less, and the pitchforks come out.

:koko:

case in point, comments like this.....

We have a resident YUL fan around here. Just to remind us how inferior YVR is in every way.

Where did I say YVR is inferior? Please enlighten us....


What?! Yeah. That's why I asked! Lol

Might want to read again. The brain always captures more when you read a second time around...
The reason why YUL is even mentioned is entirely due to YVR-DUB. I never brought up YUL-ALG, just responded.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 17, 2018, 10:42 PM
Nice try.

Not referring to just the last few posts... obviously.

Probably due to no active YUL thread? Hi jack other threads? :D

LeftCoaster
Oct 17, 2018, 11:06 PM
YUL-DUB going Rouge or A333 is a massive increase in seats compared to the 7M8. With the impending YYC-DUB, that's a lot of capacity dumped on Canada-Ireland all of a sudden.

Well if it is 3x YUL-DUB on an A333 Vs 4x on a 737MAX its not that big a boost. 795 seats Vs 676 seats.

LeftCoaster
Oct 17, 2018, 11:06 PM
Where did I say YVR is inferior? Please enlighten us....


Well there was this incredibly insecure response to a simple picture of the YVR intl pier at sunset...

That's it? 8 heavies?

Hardly impressed.....

As i type this, I'm counting 30 heavies on the ground at YUL. All gates full. 13 aircraft on remote stands. 1 at AC base. 1 at de-ice.

Or this jem about how Quebecers are too sophisticated to need to fly to Saskatoon or Comox...

Both YVR and BOS are primarily domestic-centric airports. That's not the case at YUL. Quebecers dont need a non stop to Saskatoon or Comox. We rather have Vienna, Bucharest, Venice, Prague etc.


I personally enjoy your presence here as you're quite well informed, but no sense in denying your allegiances and your not as subtle as you think they are jabs at YVR (and the rest of Canada for that matter).

Johnny Aussie
Oct 17, 2018, 11:35 PM
YTD YVR still the second busiest airport for international passengers though. And the gap between 2 and 3 has actually grown a bit.

Definition of international is - plane takes off from one country and lands in another. Simple.

thenoflyzone
Oct 18, 2018, 12:25 AM
Well there was this incredibly insecure response to a simple picture of the YVR intl pier at sunset...



Or this jem about how Quebecers are too sophisticated to need to fly to Saskatoon or Comox...




I personally enjoy your presence here as you're quite well informed, but no sense in denying your allegiances and your not as subtle as you think they are jabs at YVR (and the rest of Canada for that matter).

Ok granted, my comment about that pic was unwarranted, I'll give you that.

But my comment about Saskatoon and Comox is bang on. And so was my comment about YVR and BOS being mostly domestic airports. (in the case of YVR, until recently)

YVR has been handling more intl pax than domestic only for the last 2 years. YUL has been mostly international for over 12, 13 years now, maybe more.

That was the point I was trying to make, precisely because Quebecers rather fly to the US, Caribbean or Europe rather than Comox. And I wasn't saying that in a context of superiority or inferiority. I was simply answering why ADM used YVR and BOS as an example in their press release. Intl traffic vs total traffic at YUL is still much higher than both those airports, and will most likely remain that way due to demographic and cultural travel patterns.

Well if it is 3x YUL-DUB on an A333 Vs 4x on a 737MAX its not that big a boost. 795 seats Vs 676 seats.

Will be interesting to see what happens. I personally feel the Max8 was well suited for YUL-DUB. The A333 might be overkill, even if it is only 3x weekly.

osirisboy
Oct 18, 2018, 12:44 AM
Might want to read again. The brain always captures more when you read a second time around...
The reason why YUL is even mentioned is entirely due to YVR-DUB. I never brought up YUL-ALG, just responded.

Just making a general observation. That's all. You don't need to keep telling me to re read posts

Alexcaban
Oct 18, 2018, 2:42 AM
YVR-DUB is staying Rouge guys, I don't see it changing to a 333.

Planes need down time too, especially the 767 and will be needed for flex.

YUL-DUB will actually be moving up to 5x weekly 7M8 and its already loaded in the system so I doubt any rotation will happen.

Nobody knows when those extra 333 are coming in however I know they will be arriving from Singapore Airlines and will need time to be refurbished into the AC brand. However looking at YUL-ALG, they are not selling J and the seat map looks exactly like SQ layout.

agamemnon
Oct 18, 2018, 4:14 AM
Nice catch, Alexcaban.

Though, interestingly, the five times weekly YUL-DUB currently shows up as operating on X57, whereas DUB-YUL is operating on X13. So something is still not quite resolved with YUL-DUB-YUL; and of course, if a plane is not being rotated into YVR at DUB, then the YVR-DUB and DUB-YVR operating days make no sense (1357 in both directions).

Ah well, all will soon become clear.

nname
Oct 18, 2018, 4:23 AM
Still showing up as 3x weekly in the timetable.

Note that if there is any discrepancy between the timetable vs. booking vs. google flights, then the timetable always have the most updated information.

Some times it may take weeks or even up to a month for the booking to sync up with timetable.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 18, 2018, 8:09 AM
Meanwhile YVR - Mexico just saw another boost.

YVR - MEX on AM still showing 19 weekly for the two week Xmas period.

YVR - MEX on 4O has been bumped to six weekly for the peak Xmas period.

YVR - CUN on 4O has been bumped to six weekly for three weeks around Xmas.

Decent increases on the two routes.

WestJet to MEX was just a blip.

nname
Oct 18, 2018, 8:29 AM
YVR - MEX on 4O has been bumped to six weekly for the peak Xmas period.

YVR - CUN on 4O has been bumped to six weekly for three weeks around Xmas.

More than that... look closely, some days have 2 flights ;)

Plus a few flights are already sold out...

I'd say it's more like 7 or 8 weekly.

But seriously, what's going on at MEX? Pretty much everyday between mid-Dec to early-Jan is like this... Interjet price their round-trip at around $1000 and seems to be selling out fast.

https://i.imgur.com/LRTuw9J.png

Funny how Westjet couldn't get the route the work and pull out before they can milk anything out of this...

Johnny Aussie
Oct 18, 2018, 10:12 AM
More than that... look closely, some days have 2 flights ;)

Plus a few flights are already sold out...

I'd say it's more like 7 or 8 weekly.

You're right I didn't look close enough.... some days Interjet will operate 4 flights out of YVR. Between AM and 4O on some days they will operate 7 flights.

canlynx
Oct 18, 2018, 1:30 PM
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/281079/hong-kong-airlines-1q19-vancouver-service-reductions/

Bit of a drop in capacity to Hong Kong this winter for a few weeks. Not a huge surprise to see, especially in the low season of the year, when you consider the huge expansion of this route over the past couple years. CX adding an extra 3 weekly, and Hong Kong Airlines starting up daily flights.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 18, 2018, 8:57 PM
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/281079/hong-kong-airlines-1q19-vancouver-service-reductions/

Bit of a drop in capacity to Hong Kong this winter for a few weeks. Not a huge surprise to see, especially in the low season of the year, when you consider the huge expansion of this route over the past couple years. CX adding an extra 3 weekly, and Hong Kong Airlines starting up daily flights.

Prudent move for the traditionally slowest time of year. The upgauge to the A359 is a good improvement over the peak Xmas period.

LeftCoaster
Oct 18, 2018, 9:46 PM
YVR-DUB is staying Rouge guys, I don't see it changing to a 333.

Planes need down time too, especially the 767 and will be needed for flex.


But how does the 767 get to YVR? They aren't going to run a one-off Rouge flight on to YVR domestically so it would need to cycle through somewhere. AC doesn't fly rouge to DUB from anywhere else so it would need to come to YVR from a rouge destination that flies to YVR. Only one I can think of is LAS.

Would the route go YYZ-LAS-YVR-DUB-YVR-LAS-YYZ?

That seems ridiculous.

LeftCoaster
Oct 18, 2018, 9:47 PM
Prudent move for the traditionally slowest time of year. The upgauge to the A359 is a good improvement over the peak Xmas period.

And not even that much of a cut. 7x 332 is not much more than 5x 359.

Also, looks like Icelandair is boosting YVR to 6x per week for at least part of the winter 19' sched:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/281064/icelandair-w19-vancouver-preliminary-listing-as-of-14oct18/

Given how low Nov is for passengers if they can make that work I'd imagine they'd run it at least through the busy December period.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 18, 2018, 10:00 PM
And not even that much of a cut. 7x 332 is not much more than 5x 359.

Also, looks like Icelandair is boosting YVR to 6x per week for at least part of the winter 19' sched:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/281064/icelandair-w19-vancouver-preliminary-listing-as-of-14oct18/

Given how low Nov is for passengers if they can make that work I'd imagine they'd run it at least through the busy December period.

Yeah interesting isn’t it.

Just read that WOW is dumping 5 US routes too. Including JFK, DFW.

Perhaps the Iceland bubble is bursting.

Probably difficult for such a small country to have two major long haul carriers.

Icelandair’s confidence in YVR is promising and encouraging.

The fact they’ve cut YEG (with minimal competition) and boosted YVR speaks volumes as to YVR’s market strength.

nname
Oct 18, 2018, 10:00 PM
But how does the 767 get to YVR? They aren't going to run a one-off Rouge flight on to YVR domestically so it would need to cycle through somewhere. AC doesn't fly rouge to DUB from anywhere else so it would need to come to YVR from a rouge destination that flies to YVR. Only one I can think of is LAS.

Would the route go YYZ-LAS-YVR-DUB-YVR-LAS-YYZ?

That seems ridiculous.

Like I said before... teleport :cool:

Looking deeper in the schedule, doesn't seems like there is a way for AC to rotate the 333s around between YUL and YYZ bases. Right now, the 333s are schedule for YYZ-YUL-GVA, YYZ-DUB, and YUL to a lot of other airports. How does AC move the planes around? Deadheading? Switch plane mid-route to GVA?

I'm thinking, maybe they are planning to rotate the planes at DUB, and in doing so, switch YUL and YVR both to 333? The schedule from YYZ doesn't match though as it's off by 2 hours.

But then what will they do with all those Rouge 767s they freed up...

Sorry for bringing up YUL again... but what AC will do to YVR-DUB is now is pretty much dependent on what they'll do in YUL...

whatnext
Oct 18, 2018, 10:08 PM
Yep. Lufthansa is flying the 346 to Munich.

Good to know, I'm going next summer and it would be great to go on this rare a/c.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 18, 2018, 10:49 PM
Like I said before... teleport :cool:

Looking deeper in the schedule, doesn't seems like there is a way for AC to rotate the 333s around between YUL and YYZ bases. Right now, the 333s are schedule for YYZ-YUL-GVA, YYZ-DUB, and YUL to a lot of other airports. How does AC move the planes around? Deadheading? Switch plane mid-route to GVA?

I'm thinking, maybe they are planning to rotate the planes at DUB, and in doing so, switch YUL and YVR both to 333? The schedule from YYZ doesn't match though as it's off by 2 hours.

But then what will they do with all those Rouge 767s they freed up...

Sorry for bringing up YUL again... but what AC will do to YVR-DUB is now is pretty much dependent on what they'll do in YUL...

The schedule as it stands now is the a/c would rotate through DUB yes. That’s the only logical conclusion based on the way the schedules are posted now. Of course subject to change.
Best result for YVR would be mainline 333. No more rouge!

Bringing up YUL in this case is relevant as the routes are intertwined to make this work. It’s not like you’re trying to brag or anything :haha: :haha:

CareerShow
Oct 19, 2018, 1:15 PM
Would be great to see rouge gone from long haul flying or of YVR! The seat pitch and width is not compatible with long-haul flying. Interesting how quickly YVR turned from a leisure base for air Canada to a more premium one.

On another note, recently flew from YVR to yyz on an air canada 77HD...the seats are exceptionally crammed in economy, and very uncomfortable for the 4 hour flight. I can only imagine how this aircraft would be for the long flight to Hong Kong.....add in the fact boarding is a disaster due to the 450 seat capacity, the limited bin capacity, and you have on of the most unpleasent flying exoierences out there. This is not including the fact there are only 6 lavatories for bassically 400 economy passengers.

To demonstrate the density, BA’s a380 contains 469 seats compared to the 450 on the ac HD 777, inspite of the 2-4-2 business class on BA, which takes up little room.....and JALs seat capacity on the 777 300 er is something like 250!

teriyaki
Oct 19, 2018, 2:36 PM
Some insight into the incoming A330s at Air Canada. Interesting that they're ex SQ birds and still retain their interior.

https://onemileatatime.com/air-canada-acquiring-singapore-airlines-a330s/

thenoflyzone
Oct 19, 2018, 3:25 PM
But seriously, what's going on at MEX? Pretty much everyday between mid-Dec to early-Jan is like this... Interjet price their round-trip at around $1000 and seems to be selling out fast.

https://i.imgur.com/LRTuw9J.png

Funny how Westjet couldn't get the route the work and pull out before they can milk anything out of this...

What do canadians do in December and January? Go down south.

You''re assuming the route is 100% O&D. It isnt. People use MEX to connect to CUN, SJD etc, especially in December and January.

canlynx
Oct 19, 2018, 4:41 PM
Some insight into the incoming A330s at Air Canada. Interesting that they're ex SQ birds and still retain their interior.

https://onemileatatime.com/air-canada-acquiring-singapore-airlines-a330s/

Maybe this is the missing piece for what’s happening with YVR-DUB. It would be flown on these A333’s, and the business section sold like premium economy, similar to how Rouge is.

connect2source
Oct 19, 2018, 5:12 PM
Some insight into the incoming A330s at Air Canada. Interesting that they're ex SQ birds and still retain their interior.

https://onemileatatime.com/air-canada-acquiring-singapore-airlines-a330s/

Interesting that TAP had them for such a short period, hence no change to TAP interiors. These SQ A330's feature their regional business class product, not their longhaul product which is 1-2-1 not 2-2-2. If AC is selling these seats as Y+ should be a comfy ride!

Johnny Aussie
Oct 19, 2018, 9:06 PM
This YVR-DUB puzzle is fun!

If the ex SQ 333s are the missing piece...

I’ve been on every type of SQ equipment except their new 787-10 and their regional J sold as Prem Y would be a very nice Prem Y product!

Back YVR-MEX again.... it’s not just YVR originating pax. The growing Latin community is filling these planes too.

casper
Oct 20, 2018, 10:17 PM
This YVR-DUB puzzle is fun!

If the ex SQ 333s are the missing piece...

I’ve been on every type of SQ equipment except their new 787-10 and their regional J sold as Prem Y would be a very nice Prem Y product!

Back YVR-MEX again.... it’s not just YVR originating pax. The growing Latin community is filling these planes too.

The ex SQ birds are coming from TAP Air Portugal (who got them from SQ). There was a post elsewhere that said two are coming before the start of the summer but will operate with the TAP configuration until they can be reworded to the AC configuration. On those birds TAP has angled business class seats, apparently AC is selling them as premium economy until they get reconfigured.

That may be a suitable aircraft from the DUB flight. Especially if AC has no interest in selling the seats as a true Business Class.

whatnext
Oct 21, 2018, 5:30 PM
Some insight into the incoming A330s at Air Canada. Interesting that they're ex SQ birds and still retain their interior.

https://onemileatatime.com/air-canada-acquiring-singapore-airlines-a330s/

I missed the backstory to this, why is AC mainline deciding the A330 is the only Airbus they will keep in the fleet?

casper
Oct 21, 2018, 5:52 PM
I missed the backstory to this, why is AC mainline deciding the A330 is the only Airbus they will keep in the fleet?

The A330 are an optimal aircraft for Canada to Europe. They don't have the range to do Asia or the Pacific. My understanding is the operating cost is comparable to the Dreamliner, they already own a few and can get some used one at a good price. The A330 are based in Montreal, while the Dreamliner is based on Toronto and Vancouver.

They are not going to be the only Airbus in the AC fleet. AC purchased the C-series (which are now called the A220).

AC also purchased some new A321 in the last three years. So I would expect those to stay for some time.

mezzanine
Oct 22, 2018, 1:34 PM
WTF?

WOW air, Iceland's only ultra-low cost airline, is expanding its Canadian services by opening a new route in Vancouver. Starting June 2019, there will be six weekly flights out of Vancouver International Airport (YVR) with one-way fares to Reykjavik starting for as low as $129.


On A321 neos. Connections available to Tel Aviv and Delhi. Nice to see some downward price pressure on TATL fares but we’ll see how long this lasts..


https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/wow-air-chooses-vancouver-as-its-next-canadian-destination-698187401.html

This may change ACs YVR-DUB plans as WOW is pushing this heavily to Irish markets. Would AC move away from rouge on this route? Or reduce/exit entirely



WOW air's Director of Communications Svanhvít Fridriksdóttir said: “We know Canada, and in particular Vancouver, is hugely popular among Irish emigrants.

"We are delighted to be able to offer them a more affordable way to travel, whether that’s coming home to visit friends and family or allowing loved ones to cross the Atlantic and visit relatives in their new homes.”



https://www.dublinlive.ie/lifestyle/travel/wow-air-dublin-vancouver-cheap-15311840

connect2source
Oct 22, 2018, 1:50 PM
Great new!! Just flew WOW STN ( London Stansted ) - KEF! Hope the fares are low because it's a bare-bones experience, even their buy-on-board had run out of most food items. No in-flight entertainment of any kind not even streaming or wifi.

This will certainly lower fares to Iceland, time to head back for a longer visit.

thenoflyzone
Oct 22, 2018, 2:07 PM
The A330 are an optimal aircraft for Canada to Europe. They don't have the range to do Asia or the Pacific. My understanding is the operating cost is comparable to the Dreamliner, they already own a few and can get some used one at a good price. The A330 are based in Montreal, while the Dreamliner is based on Toronto and Vancouver.

They are not going to be the only Airbus in the AC fleet. AC purchased the C-series (which are now called the A220).

AC also purchased some new A321 in the last three years. So I would expect those to stay for some time.

The Air Canada A333s - 230t MTOW - have a still air range of about 5000 nm. That's theoretically enough for YVR-ICN/NRT, but not much else, TPAC wise.

The A333 pilot base is only in YUL, but that doesn't mean the plane can't fly from YYZ or YVR.

The 787 has 3 bases. YYZ, YVR and YUL.

The A333 operating cost is comparable to the 787 only when you factor in acquisiton costs. It might even have an edge on the 787 from YYZ/YUL to Europe, due to the shorter stage lengths involved. That's the main reason why the plane is based in YUL.

thenoflyzone
Oct 22, 2018, 2:09 PM
Great new!!.



Rouge came....."BOOOOOOO...go away..."

WOW air comes, YAAAAYYY....

You guys are a weird bunch......

But back on topic: WOW Air adding YVR was a no brainer really, especially if they want good feed for their new flight to DEL.

Hopefully they'll still be around come summer 2019. More competition is always good for the consumer.

YVR-DUB is staying Rouge guys, I don't see it changing to a 333.


At this point, With ALG already loaded with one of the new A333s, it's very likely YVR-DUB stays Rouge. There will be a decent slack in the schedule to allow for maintenance of this bird. That's the main reason why YVR got de-rouged. To address reliability issues with the B767, mostly due to running them on a too tight schedule last year.

mezzanine
Oct 22, 2018, 2:44 PM
WOW Air adding YVR was a no brainer really, especially if they want good feed for their new flight to DEL.


I dunno, WOW is summer seasonal so far to YVR, which is the slow season for VFR.

casper
Oct 22, 2018, 5:08 PM
The Air Canada A333s - 230t MTOW - have a still air range of about 5000 nm. That's theoretically enough for YVR-ICN/NRT, but not much else, TPAC wise.

The A333 pilot base is only in YUL, but that doesn't mean the plane can't fly from YYZ or YVR.

The 787 has 3 bases. YYZ, YVR and YUL.

The A333 operating cost is comparable to the 787 only when you factor in acquisiton costs. It might even have an edge on the 787 from YYZ/YUL to Europe, due to the shorter stage lengths involved. That's the main reason why the plane is based in YUL.

AC has operated the A333 on the YVR-NRT in the past. I have flow that route on that aircraft.

canlynx
Oct 22, 2018, 5:32 PM
Rouge came....."BOOOOOOO...go away..."

WOW air comes, YAAAAYYY....

You guys are a weird bunch......


I think the thinking is more so that AC mainline > AC rouge, but having rouge/LCC > nothing.

thenoflyzone
Oct 22, 2018, 5:54 PM
I dunno, WOW is summer seasonal so far to YVR, which is the slow season for VFR.

Fully expect this route to be year round. No airline has their schedules out past October 2019.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 22, 2018, 6:38 PM
Wow! :P

Didn’t see that coming. They’ve been retreating their North American ops.

Good to see their confidence in YVR too.

This will be YVR’s 25th overseas carrier.

And YVR-Europe will increase to 109 flights per week next summer.

Schedule will be Daily except Saturdays
WW245 Arrives at 1815
WW246 Departs at 1930

Klazu
Oct 22, 2018, 6:54 PM
The A330 are an optimal aircraft for Canada to Europe. They don't have the range to do Asia or the Pacific.

I am on mobile, but isn't China Eastern flying A330 to Shanghai?

canlynx
Oct 22, 2018, 7:11 PM
I am on mobile, but isn't China Eastern flying A330 to Shanghai?

They’re flying A332’s, and new ones at that. Most of which have been delivered in the past 5 years, likely with a higher MTOW.

Versus AC’s A333’s, which have less range to begin with, and they were delivered around the turn of the century, when airbus wasn’t offering such high take off weights.

nname
Oct 22, 2018, 7:14 PM
Rouge came....."BOOOOOOO...go away..."

WOW air comes, YAAAAYYY....

You guys are a weird bunch......

But back on topic: WOW Air adding YVR was a no brainer really, especially if they want good feed for their new flight to DEL.

WOW air pull YVR further ahead of YUL in term of foreign carrier count, while Rouge doesn't add to the count :cool:

thenoflyzone
Oct 22, 2018, 8:41 PM
WOW air pull YVR further ahead of YUL in term of foreign carrier count, while Rouge doesn't add to the count :cool:

Lol. Pulling ahead even further?

In 2019, YUL will be the closest it's been to YVR in terms of foreign airline count. You're mixing up who's catching up to who.

YUL new carriers in the next 8 months:

Aer Lingus
Norwegian
Austrian
TAP (though no official announcement yet)

YVR new carriers:

WOW
Turkish (no official announcement yet)

Sadly, WOW doesn't even contribute to those 17 new destinations by 2020 either....

Edit: Added TK to YVR

Johnny Aussie
Oct 22, 2018, 8:57 PM
Regardless. A city the size of YVR in North America to be served by 25 long haul carriers is unprecedented.

A testament to YVR’s market strength.

Despite all the competition WOW chose to fly to YVR. They could have chosen to fly to YYC, YEG or maybe even YWG. Singling out Ireland in their presser is timely. Westjet no doubt relying on YVR’s significant O&D to help their new flight.

As for AC to DUB... their schedules still indicate a rotation with YUL as both YVR and YUL scheds as they currently stand require that as the plane is clearly turning in DUB to support both flights. Neither flight works as a turnaround back to the originating base. The mystery continues... all will be revealed soon.

thenoflyzone
Oct 22, 2018, 11:29 PM
WTF?


This may change ACs YVR-DUB plans as WOW is pushing this heavily to Irish markets. Would AC move away from rouge on this route? Or reduce/exit entirely



AC is not one to run away from competition, nor have they at YYZ and YUL, where WOW has been present for a few years now. Shouldn't be any different in YVR.


As for AC to DUB... their schedules still indicate a rotation with YUL as both YVR and YUL scheds as they currently stand require that as the plane is clearly turning in DUB to support both flights. Neither flights works as a turnaround back to the originating base. The mystery continues... all will be revealed soon.

Indeed. Both YVR and YUL flights arrive in DUB at exactly the same time, 08h30 LCL, and leave DUB at 10h15 LCL. So there is indication there that the plan is for YVR-DUB-YUL-DUB-YVR.

Seems it could stay Rouge 767.

Boooooooooooo.....I mean yaaaaayyyyy.....Or was it boooooooooo..

thenoflyzone
Oct 22, 2018, 11:58 PM
I am on mobile, but isn't China Eastern flying A330 to Shanghai?

As was mentioned, I was specifically talking about the A330-300 (A333).

The A332 has significantly more range than the A333, since the former has center fuel tanks, and the latter, until recently, didn't.

With the 242t A330-300s, Airbus activated the center fuel tank feature as well on the larger sibling, giving it a range of 6,350nm ( over 1,350 nm more, or 3 hours more range than AC's A333s.)

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airbus-to-raise-a330-take-off-weight-and-fuel-capacity-379583/

It's amazing what Airbus has done with the A333.

TS has a 23 year old A333 with a 215t MTOW. (max ~ 8000 km range)
AC's A333s, slightly younger, but still relatively old, are at 230t, (max range 9260 km)
Latest version coming out of Toulouse is 242t with a range of 11,750 km.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 23, 2018, 12:26 AM
AC mainline preferred to AC rouge.

Luckily most YVR rouge routes have converted to mainline. Much better service for the traveller.

There were so few options left where rouge would work for YVR. Asia - no opportunities other than secondary Japanese cities but that experiment doesn’t appear desirable or viable. The one viable option moved to mainline - good choice!

Europe... yeah sure maybe GLA and MAN... maybe a crack at BCN and FCO. Marginal opportunities.
Rouge options at YVR very limited at best. Reopening a rouge base at YVR for a very limited list of destinations not an overall good strategy.gone

Unfortunate NGO’s gone but as I said more of a reflection on NGO’s inability to be any sort of TransPac player versus YVR.

And MCO? The sky is falling!! Every other rouge destination in North America / Hawaii gone/going mainline except LAS. Great result!

nname
Oct 23, 2018, 12:59 AM
AC mainline preferred to AC rouge.

Luckily most YVR rouge routes have converted to mainline. Much better service for the traveller.

There were so few options left where rouge would work for YVR. Asia - no opportunities other than secondary Japanese cities but that experiment doesn’t appear desirable or viable. The one viable option moved to mainline - good choice!

Europe... yeah sure maybe GLA and MAN... maybe a crack at BCN and FCO. Marginal opportunities.
Rouge options at YVR very limited at best. Reopening a rouge base at YVR for a very limited list of destinations not an overall good strategy.gone

Unfortunate NGO’s gone but as I said more of a reflection on NGO’s inability to be any sort of TransPac player versus YVR.

And MCO? The sky is falling!! Every other rouge destination in North America / Hawaii gone/going mainline except LAS. Great result!

Well, Rouge to GLA, MAN, BCN, and even BOG, LIM are still technically possible as AC already operates them from YYZ and/or YUL. Otherwise we wouldn't have this discussion for Mainline 333 vs Rouge 763 for DUB here...

No chance for Asia though, as it's just too far away from a Rouge base.

Klazu
Oct 23, 2018, 1:00 AM
I just booked trip to LAS onboard Air Canada Rouge. My first time onboard them, but it cannot be that bad for a 2-hour trip? I was even considering Allegiant Air from Bellingham, but I just couldn't get myself to justify the hassle for maybe saving a few bucks.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 23, 2018, 1:13 AM
I just booked trip to LAS onboard Air Canada Rouge. My first time onboard them, but it cannot be that bad for a 2-hour trip? I was even considering Allegiant Air from Bellingham, but I just couldn't get myself to justify the hassle for maybe saving a few bucks.

Short haul I wouldn’t really care. Flights under three hours I’m not too fussed.

Long haul - no thanks.

nname
Oct 23, 2018, 7:24 AM
YYZ-BOM (4x weekly) was removed from the schedule as of... a couple of hours ago. Does this solve the MEL puzzle?
Although I don't know how would AC rotate plane between YVR-MEL and YYZ-DXB though...

SpongeG
Oct 23, 2018, 7:55 AM
I looked up some flights on WOW, just to iceland is cheap with the WOW basic fare, but that fare gets you nothing, just a ticket and a personal item.
There were 3 upgrade options. The highest fare was $419 one way to iceland included, 2 checked bags, 1 personal item and 1 carry on ad meal. the second option WOW plus was $355 and WOW comfy is $2 more for $357. About the same for the return flight.

It's not set up yet to find flights to other places yet so its not possible to calculate a trip.

SpongeG
Oct 23, 2018, 7:58 AM
I just booked trip to LAS onboard Air Canada Rouge. My first time onboard them, but it cannot be that bad for a 2-hour trip? I was even considering Allegiant Air from Bellingham, but I just couldn't get myself to justify the hassle for maybe saving a few bucks.

I flew Allegiant once to California. If you don't pay for the extras its a pain. Lucky we did, such as priority boarding cause it meant we got a place for our carry on. People in general boarding were getting on and having no room for their bags, people had to put their stuff rows away from their seats. They even put luggage in a cupboard. I wouldn't fly them again to save a few bucks.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 23, 2018, 9:34 AM
YYZ-BOM (4x weekly) was removed from the schedule as of... a couple of hours ago. Does this solve the MEL puzzle?
Although I don't know how would AC rotate plane between YVR-MEL and YYZ-DXB though...

Do you have notifications on for schedule changes?

The mystery continues to the complete summer 2019 AC schedule.... all is revealing soon.

thenoflyzone
Oct 23, 2018, 11:49 AM
I looked up some flights on WOW, just to iceland is cheap with the WOW basic fare, but that fare gets you nothing, just a ticket and a personal item.
There were 3 upgrade options. The highest fare was $419 one way to iceland included, 2 checked bags, 1 personal item and 1 carry on ad meal. the second option WOW plus was $355 and WOW comfy is $2 more for $357. About the same for the return flight.

It's not set up yet to find flights to other places yet so its not possible to calculate a trip.

I personally wouldn't book them at this point. All signs point to a Primera 2.0

thenoflyzone
Oct 23, 2018, 11:54 AM
Wow! :P

Didn’t see that coming.


really?

I didn't see BA starting Charleston. This, I saw coming. (financial troubles aside)

The minute they launched DEL, YVR was a given. I've probably even said so on this forum last year.....

Let's not kid ourselves, WOW needs to fill their DEL flight. YVR will help them do that. In all the news articles about the launch, the first airport WOW mentions after KEF is DEL.

Wow Air says Reykjavik will also serve as a stopover for Canadian passengers en route to and from New Delhi, Tel Aviv and various European cities.

AC going daily year round to DEL is proof that the market is mature enough for summer service as well.

nname
Oct 23, 2018, 5:02 PM
Do you have notifications on for schedule changes?

The mystery continues to the complete summer 2019 AC schedule.... all is revealing soon.

AC is pretty predictable for the publish time for the schedule updates.

Generally starts 12am Eastern time on Tuesday and Wednesday, and usually finished before 4am :D

thenoflyzone
Oct 24, 2018, 1:00 AM
SQ might be launching SEA next year, apparently.

Now that is a surprise. I would have thought YVR would get service before SEA.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/sia-likely-to-fly-non-stop-to-seattle-from-next-year?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&xtor=CS1-10&fbclid=IwAR3X-opbMum4p3G3V13lOjwJ1qM2gwFsK8i1lbnVvQTkuu9_H9icPJ0hrg0#Echobox=1540337727

trofirhen
Oct 24, 2018, 1:20 AM
SQ might be launching SEA next year, apparently.

Now that is a surprise. I would have thought YVR would get service before SEA.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/sia-likely-to-fly-non-stop-to-seattle-from-next-year?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&xtor=CS1-10&fbclid=IwAR3X-opbMum4p3G3V13lOjwJ1qM2gwFsK8i1lbnVvQTkuu9_H9icPJ0hrg0#Echobox=1540337727

Wow Seattle sure beat us out big-time on that one. I wonder if AC will start YVR-SIN? Everybody says they don't have the metal for it, and / or the market isn't there.

twoNeurons
Oct 24, 2018, 5:04 AM
SQ might be launching SEA next year, apparently.

Now that is a surprise. I would have thought YVR would get service before SEA.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/sia-likely-to-fly-non-stop-to-seattle-from-next-year?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&xtor=CS1-10&fbclid=IwAR3X-opbMum4p3G3V13lOjwJ1qM2gwFsK8i1lbnVvQTkuu9_H9icPJ0hrg0#Echobox=1540337727

Seattle has quite a few high value software engineers travelling between Asia and [enter one of many large Seattle software companies here].

Klazu
Oct 24, 2018, 5:09 AM
I flew Allegiant once to California. [...] I wouldn't fly them again to save a few bucks.

Hehe, that's the conclusion I landed in after thinking more about it. I can be cheap, but not that cheap to fly Allegiant from Bellingham and then stay in a 5-start hotel. :haha:

Is WOW's KEF-DEL perhaps the world's northernmost polar route? It must fly pretty much over the north pole!

Johnny Aussie
Oct 24, 2018, 8:08 AM
AC is pretty predictable for the publish time for the schedule updates.

Generally starts 12am Eastern time on Tuesday and Wednesday, and usually finished before 4am :D

Thanks for that. I don’t watch this as closely as you do but it makes sense.

It seems like one problem gets solved then another kink in the chain happens.

I’m surprised that AC is dropping YYZ-BOM to seasonal but it does appear this has happened.

I guess we will have to wait just a little longer to see what happens with that DUB route and the downtime with the MEL route!

nname
Oct 24, 2018, 8:43 AM
Thanks for that. I don’t watch this as closely as you do but it makes sense.

I only need to press a button each night, and my script will do everything else :cool:

I hate how AC is now only making one change every time they update the schedule though.. It's been a week and they still haven't clean up the double ALG flight :hell:

thenoflyzone
Oct 24, 2018, 1:57 PM
Is WOW's KEF-DEL perhaps the world's northernmost polar route? It must fly pretty much over the north pole!

Not at all.

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=kef-del,+kef-nop-del&MS=wls&MR=540&MX=720x360&PM=*

Great circle route passes over Scandinavia and Russia, nowhere near the north pole.

As WW doesn't have Russian overflight rights, the route will need to avoid Russian airspace, hence the second route on the map, which represents more or less the actual routing of the flight. It represents a 10% increase in total distance flown. Not a big deal, but again, very far from the north pole.

Based on a great circle route, of all the cross polar flights out of Canada, YUL-PEK passes the closest to the north pole. Granted, airlines dont fly GC routes, but nonetheless....

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=yul-pvg%2C+yul-pek%2C+yvr-del%2C+90n+0w%2C+yyz-del%2C+yyz-bom%2C+yul-nrt%2C+yyz-pek%2C+yyz-pvg%2Cyyz-icn%2C+yyz-mnl%2C+yyz-tpe%2C+yyz-hkg%2C+yvr-hkg&MS=wls&DU=mi

vanlaw
Oct 24, 2018, 3:03 PM
Hehe, that's the conclusion I landed in after thinking more about it. I can be cheap, but not that cheap to fly Allegiant from Bellingham and then stay in a 5-start hotel. :haha:

Is WOW's KEF-DEL perhaps the world's northernmost polar route? It must fly pretty much over the north pole!

I recall reading somewhere a few years back that EK's DXB-SEA route comes closest to the north pole.

nname
Oct 24, 2018, 6:56 PM
I recall reading somewhere a few years back that EK's DXB-SEA route comes closest to the north pole.

Doesn't really matter. Plane aren't allow to fly north of 89N anyways, so they all have to go around it...

thenoflyzone
Oct 24, 2018, 8:58 PM
Doesn't really matter. Plane aren't allow to fly north of 89N anyways, so they all have to go around it...

89N is 69 miles from the north pole. Close enough wouldn't you say.........:)

SpongeG
Oct 26, 2018, 5:32 AM
Seattleites: Save big bucks by flying overseas out of Vancouver, B.C.
Originally published October 18, 2018

If you’re traveling internationally, you may find a cheaper ticket out of Vancouver, B.C., than Seattle. Here’s how to maximize your return on investment — and where to kill time while you wait for your flight.

By Carol Pucci
Special to The Seattle Times

“Where are you going?” the Canadian immigration officer asked me as we stepped off the Amtrak train at Vancouver, B.C.’s, Pacific Central Station.

When I told him we were headed to the airport, he flashed a knowing smile. “How much are you saving?”

Obviously we weren’t the first to figure out we could take advantage of lower international airfares by flying out of Vancouver instead of Seattle.

“About $250 per ticket,” I said, telling him of our plans to fly to Lima, Peru, via Mexico City on Aeromexico.

It was the third time in the past few years that my husband and I have made the trip 140 miles north to Vancouver by train or bus to snag lower fares on overseas flights.

The savings this time was not as much as the $600 per ticket we netted a few years ago by flying Delta from Vancouver to Rome via Amsterdam and back from Berlin, but it was enough to justify the train fare ($75 for two) and four-hour ride.

Why are international fares often lower out of Vancouver?

“Differences in supply and demand for individual cities” are likely one reason, says Scott Mackenzie, editor of Seattle’s Travel Codex, a website that offers advice on airline pricing and award travel. “There may be more demand to fly in/out of Seattle due to Seattle’s comparatively larger economy and (presumably) wealthy businesses and residents who can afford to pay more for travel.”

He notes also that Vancouver has a larger international airport with more airlines competing for the same routes, and relatively relaxed customs procedures which make international connections easier. “If some passengers are already flying from Europe to Asia and stopping in Canada, then there is lots of supply for Americans (and Canadians) to take advantage of for at least half the journey,” he says.

...

https://www.seattletimes.com/life/travel/the-smart-northwest-travelers-cheat-code-fly-out-of-vancouver-b-c/

Johnny Aussie
Oct 26, 2018, 9:14 PM
Maybe that will stop the flood of people crossing the border to fly out of SEA or BLI. :haha: :P

Be nice if the opposite happened for a change.

casper
Oct 26, 2018, 10:20 PM
Maybe that will stop the flood of people crossing the border to fly out of SEA or BLI. :haha: :P

Be nice if the opposite happened for a change.

For quite some time it is has been the case it is cheaper to fly domestically in the US out of Seattle and cheaper to fly domestically in Canada or international out of Vancouver.

Always amazed how the long-term parking lot at YVR has a lot of cars with Washington state plates. Even some California plates. My guess would be at least 1 in 5.

LeftCoaster
Oct 26, 2018, 10:40 PM
SQ might be launching SEA next year, apparently.

Now that is a surprise. I would have thought YVR would get service before SEA.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/sia-likely-to-fly-non-stop-to-seattle-from-next-year?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&xtor=CS1-10&fbclid=IwAR3X-opbMum4p3G3V13lOjwJ1qM2gwFsK8i1lbnVvQTkuu9_H9icPJ0hrg0#Echobox=1540337727

It just says SEA will be the next US destination. It doesn't say anything about YVR or Canada.

Hell, it doesn't even say they won't launch YVR before SEA.

I could see them launching both, with SEA serving US connecting PAX and YVR serving Canadian PAX.

Like I pointed out a few months ago they have A LOT of widebody seats to fill with their big orders.

WestCoastEcho
Oct 27, 2018, 12:46 AM
It just says SEA will be the next US destination. It doesn't say anything about YVR or Canada.

Hell, it doesn't even say they won't launch YVR before SEA.

I could see them launching both, with SEA serving US connecting PAX and YVR serving Canadian PAX.

Like I pointed out a few months ago they have A LOT of widebody seats to fill with their big orders.

I don't think Singapore Airlines will have that big of capacity glut; for one, they tend to retire aircraft fairly young. Something about that being advantageous for them in terms of taxes and resale value.

Galaxy
Oct 27, 2018, 2:01 AM
http://www.traveller.com.au/first-two-retired-a380-superjumbos-to-be-broken-up-for-parts-h110ps

They also return their planes back to companies they lease their planes from early I am guessing so that the owners of the planes can still resell and get a decent resale value on the used market.

trofirhen
Oct 27, 2018, 2:33 AM
It just says SEA will be the next US destination. It doesn't say anything about YVR or Canada.

Hell, it doesn't even say they won't launch YVR before SEA.

I could see them launching both, with SEA serving US connecting PAX and YVR serving Canadian PAX.

Like I pointed out a few months ago they have A LOT of widebody seats to fill with their big orders.

I don't think Singapore Airlines will have that big of capacity glut; for one, they tend to retire aircraft fairly young. Something about that being advantageous for them in terms of taxes and resale value.

I think this is one major destination where has SEA has YVR beat, big time (for a while, anyway), ... the other being DXB.

zahav
Oct 27, 2018, 7:22 AM
I don't see them launching both SEA and YVR, that is too close too soon. I feel like SEA isn't a good route for SQ though, the tech travel alone doesn't justify it. I feel like NYC, SFO, and LAX make sense totally, but neither YVR or SEA really do to that degree. YVR makes more sense than SEA tbh, I feel like there's some reason they aren't starting YVR that is pushing them to choose SEA

thenoflyzone
Oct 27, 2018, 11:49 AM
SEA-SIN O&D last year was around 26,000
YVR-SIN O&D is around 30-35,000

Not much between the two. SEA has more premium demand, so the more I think about, the more it makes sense, especially since SQ and Alaska Airlines launched a codeshare agreement and frequent flyer partnership last year. (which I didn't know about until a few days ago)

https://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/es/media-centre/press-release/article/?q=en_UK/2017/July-September/ne1517-170831

I don't see them launching both SEA and YVR, that is too close too soon.

I agree. They wont launch both, at least not in the short term. Whoever gets SIN first will have SQ to themselves for quite a while.

Although they haven't said it in as many words, seems like SIN-SEA is a real possibility.

I feel like SEA isn't a good route for SQ though, the tech travel alone doesn't justify it.

That's why they have a new codehare agreement with Alaska.

I feel like NYC, SFO, and LAX make sense totally, but neither YVR or SEA really do to that degree. YVR makes more sense than SEA tbh, I feel like there's some reason they aren't starting YVR that is pushing them to choose SEA

Both routes aren't automatic winners. SQ hasn't confirmed SEA, just rumors for now.

One thing is for sure, not much separates SEA and YVR ref. SIN service. However, with the recent codeshare with Alaska and more premium demand south of the border, SEA has the edge.

mezzanine
Oct 27, 2018, 8:33 PM
SEA-SIN O&D last year was around 26,000
YVR-SIN O&D is around 30-35,000


One thing is for sure, not much separates SEA and YVR ref. SIN service. However, with the recent codeshare with Alaska and more premium demand south of the border, SEA has the edge.

IMO, whatever happens in SEA will be independent of what happens at YVR, and YVR still >>SEA.

-it's probably safe to assume that arriving and transferring anywhere in the USA is 10x more shitter than in Canada. Canada also allows TWOV for thai and Indonesian nationals, who may use SIN to travel to NA.

-AK's code share really would work out of any west coast airport. SQ traffic could transfer to AK flights from SFO, LAX or even YVR and still get benefits.

-the difference between O+D from SEA and YVR by your numbers isn't nothing

- JL and CX will also start TPAC service next year from SEA. not sure how much more new TPAC traffic can be absorbed sustainably.


I suspect that AC may be SQ's frienemy at YVR and may be wanting to start service first before SQ, similar to what UA did at SFO.



I suppose we will see what happens..

Johnny Aussie
Oct 29, 2018, 2:38 AM
Of the 18 long haul carriers that will be flying out of SEA after JAL and CX commence... 12 also fly out of YVR.

6 fly out of SEA and not YVR. Those being: Aer Lingus, Asiana, Emirates, Norwegian, Thomas Cook, Virgin Atlantic.

Meanwhile YVR has 13 long haul carriers that don’t fly to SEA.

So any airline that flies to SEA or YVR certainly doesn’t mean it can’t or won’t fly from both. This is far from a done deal so let’s see what excitement unfolds over the next little while.

nname
Oct 30, 2018, 6:03 AM
The answer to the mystery was finally revealed....


AC 818 333 (255) 246 YUL - DUB 21:15 - 08:30
AC 819 333 (255) 246 DUB - YUL 10:15 - 12:05

AC 862 333 (255) 1357 YVR - DUB 15:20 - 08:30
AC 863 333 (255) 1357 DUB - YVR 10:15 - 11:40

Johnny Aussie
Oct 30, 2018, 6:07 AM
The answer to the mystery was finally revealed....


AC 818 333 (255) 246 YUL - DUB 21:15 - 08:30
AC 819 333 (255) 246 DUB - YUL 10:15 - 12:05

AC 862 333 (255) 1357 YVR - DUB 15:20 - 08:30
AC 863 333 (255) 1357 DUB - YVR 10:15 - 11:40


Well done!

Based on what you told us last week I even checked this morning and it still showed rouge (:yuck:)

We definitely knew it had to rotate through DUB.

This was the most logical answer to the question.

YVR is officially de-rouged and another mainline AC long haul destination for YVR.

nname
Oct 30, 2018, 6:10 AM
It was just loaded about 15min ago... still very fresh :D

Today they started more than 1hr late, so didn't get to the 800s until about 2am eastern time (usually it's 1am)

Now AC is loading the UA codeshares... still about 1hr till the update for AC express

========================

Another thing I've noticed... Summer 2019 schedule supposed to end at October 26th? As of tonight, AC timetable is now loaded until October 30th, so we get to see the first 4 day of whatever is being modified for the W19 schedule?

For YVR-KIX, the timetable currently shows

5x weekly all the way to the end of the summer schedule (Oct 26), and then

YVR-KIX Oct 29, 30
KIX-YVR Oct 30

Possibility of KIX becoming year-round?

YVR-FRA (AC840) is also loaded daily until Oct 30 (so far)

Last DUB flight is Oct 14
Last CDG flight is Oct 13
Last ZRH flight is Oct 12

Johnny Aussie
Oct 30, 2018, 9:40 AM
Another thing I've noticed... Summer 2019 schedule supposed to end at October 26th? As of tonight, AC timetable is now loaded untilFor YVR-KIX, the timetable currently shows

5x weekly all the way to the end of the summer schedule (Oct 26), and then

YVR-KIX Oct 29, 30
KIX-YVR Oct 30

Possibility of KIX becoming year-round?

YVR-FRA (AC840) is also loaded daily until Oct 30 (so far)

Last DUB flight is Oct 14
Last CDG flight is Oct 13
Last ZRH flight is Oct 12

This list got me thinking...

AC has added 8 mainline long haul routes out of YVR in the last 2 years:

MEL, DEL, TPE, KIX, FRA, CDG, ZRH and DUB.

Now a total of 16.

LeftCoaster
Oct 30, 2018, 5:55 PM
SEA-SIN O&D last year was around 26,000
YVR-SIN O&D is around 30-35,000

Not much between the two. SEA has more premium demand, so the more I think about, the more it makes sense, especially since SQ and Alaska Airlines launched a codeshare agreement and frequent flyer partnership last year. (which I didn't know about until a few days ago)

https://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/es/media-centre/press-release/article/?q=en_UK/2017/July-September/ne1517-170831

Why do you say SEA has more premium demand to SIN?

The amount of HNW individuals in Vancouver with ties to Singapore is not insignificant. Seattle has tech industry ties to Singapore but few finance ties which Vancouver would have more of. Add in the fact that YVR-SIN would be the de-facto Canadian route while SIN-SEA would need to compete with SQs numerous existing US routes, I think the YVR-SIN route would be pretty attractive in comparison.

Given the US/Canada divide I also don't see YVR and SEA negating each-other since they are both chasing PAX from different countries.

thenoflyzone
Oct 31, 2018, 12:30 AM
Well if it is 3x YUL-DUB on an A333 Vs 4x on a 737MAX its not that big a boost. 795 seats Vs 676 seats.

It's actually 876 vs 676. AC's A333s seat 292.

Why do you say SEA has more premium demand to SIN?



Not just to SIN. I meant in general.

SEA, and the US in general, is higher yielding than Canada, and that includes YYZ, YVR or YUL.

You dont see UA or AA carry 450 passengers on their 77Ws. There's a reason for that. Just like you dont see AC carry 60 business class seats (UA) or 8 First and 52 business seats (AA) on their 77Ws.

Alexcaban
Oct 31, 2018, 2:35 AM
It's going to be the SQ A333's deployed to the route so it will be a 30/255 = 285

mezzanine
Oct 31, 2018, 4:29 AM
Not just to SIN. I meant in general.

SEA, and the US in general, is higher yielding than Canada, and that includes YYZ, YVR or YUL.

You dont see UA or AA carry 450 passengers on their 77Ws. There's a reason for that. Just like you dont see AC carry 60 business class seats (UA) or 8 First and 52 business seats (AA) on their 77Ws.

I dunno. IMO it's not so easy to generalize about viability and the O+D market. Delta couldn't make a go of it and had to cancel its SEA-HKG flight this year. CX only announced service to SEA once delta cancelled their route.

Seattle is only starting to catch up to YVR with TPAC flights. SEA not YVR has OZ AFAIK, but even ignoring canadian and mainland carriers, seattle lacks service from NZ, PR and CI. Even qantas serves YVR seasonally and not SEA.

Even the SIN market is finicky. UA had to cancel its SIN-LAX flights as it saw it less viable than SFO double daily.

Like I said time will tell. I suspect if there is a planned flight to the PNW, i suspect a lot of jawing between AC, SQ and the YVR and SEA airport authorities.

LeftCoaster
Nov 1, 2018, 12:28 AM
Not just to SIN. I meant in general.

SEA, and the US in general, is higher yielding than Canada, and that includes YYZ, YVR or YUL.

You dont see UA or AA carry 450 passengers on their 77Ws. There's a reason for that. Just like you dont see AC carry 60 business class seats (UA) or 8 First and 52 business seats (AA) on their 77Ws.

I'm sure you're right on the whole, but YVR to China, and I would also lump Singapore in that bucket, is probably higher yielding than SEA. The Chinese diaspora in Vancouver has a very wealthy sub-section to it and the Singapore-Vancouver connection is very much that sub section. If you have a house in Singapore and in Vancouver, 99% chance you're flying paid J.

nname
Nov 1, 2018, 1:03 AM
If you have a house in Singapore and in Vancouver, 99% chance you're flying paid J.

There is actually not many very wealthy people who don't care about how much they spend. The vast majority of them will find the cheapest Y. That's why AC have no problem filling those 450 seats slave ships, and the Chinese airlines are also starting to phase out F class.

Most people with one or two house are not really that wealthy. They just see real estate as a form of investment, with much better return than, say.. stock or bond market, or just putting money in the bank. So many would rather put money in real estate than the bank, or even things like RRSP. Of course, for those who got dozens of houses, then it's a different story...