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Johnny Aussie
Mar 1, 2019, 11:33 PM
This is probably the only airport thread where a long haul route is announced and it brings out the negative nellies.

Time to dig up an Aussie saying

Aw diddums.... she’ll be right!

:haha::haha:

Go out and enjoy the day!

Johnny Aussie
Mar 2, 2019, 12:31 AM
Air Canada Investor Day 2019 presentation

https://www.aircanada.com/content/dam/aircanada/portal/documents/PDF/en/investor/Compiled-Investor-Day-Feb2019.pdf

YVR highlights:

P92 - AC’s YVR hub is the second largest NA-Asia operation second to UA at SFO
and ahead of AC at YYZ
P96 - future growth at the three main hubs. YVR highlighted for strong Asian network and seasonal routes extending year-round - so many lines connecting YVR compared to just a few years ago
PP98-99 - possible new routes identified: YVR-YHZ, YVR-IAD and YVR-MCO
P101 - “counter-seasonal” routes highlighting the new YVR-AKL route

thenoflyzone
Mar 2, 2019, 1:15 AM
PP98-99 - possible new routes identified: YVR-YHZ, YVR-IAD and YVR-MCO


trofirhen and zahav wont be happy. All three of those are already served by other carriers.

Must be the goverment's fault.

Johnny Aussie
Mar 2, 2019, 11:23 PM
The Investor Day presentation does open up the possibilities...

Looking at the Transborder O&D figures (again) every single YVR route > 30,000 passengers increased between 2014-2016 and in some cases substantially. In fact you have to go all the way down to BUF-YVR to find a route that decreased between 2014 and 2016.

The exact opposite happened for YYC and YEG routes. Except for YYC-SEA, YYC-BOS and YYC-PDX... every other single route > 30,000 pax decreased.

Since 2016, YVR Transborder ops have increased almost another 1,000,000. Obviously some of that would be connecting traffic but some of that would be O&D market growth.

With the economics of the A220 ("unparalleled operating economics") certainly some new routes will pop up. Another game changer plane for NA ops. Just like the Dreamliner has been for long-haul ops for AC at YVR.
Based on the numbers I would say AC will start YVR to IAD, MCO, IAH and MIA/FLL (either one) would most likely get the nod. Some of these have been identified as possible routes in the Investor Day 2019 presentation already. I could also see some current routes such as ORD and DFW switched to mainline 220s. Once you start going further down the list things still get a bit more iffy. No we won't be seeing nonstop flights to Kansas City, Pittsburgh, Omaha or Austin (yet).

This is based on market numbers and not just a whine for more routes based on some sort of inferiority complex.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/170816/dq170816b-cansim-eng.htm

trofirhen
Mar 3, 2019, 12:07 AM
This is probably the only airport thread where a long haul route is announced and it brings out the negative nellies..........


I'm not a negative nellie. I know YVR is booming. ... I just want more...

trofirhen and zahav wont be happy. All three of those are already served by other carriers.
Must be the goverment's fault.

It isn't YVR's fault that TK (for example) can't land here. So whose fault is it? All I want - like ZAHAV - is some new airlines: "fresh blood" and new destinations.

zahav
Mar 3, 2019, 9:08 PM
I know I sound negative and maybe I am a bit, that's why I owned up to it and said I sound like a spoiled brat. I too am thrilled that the airport has done so well, new routes and beefed up service is always always welcome. But as I said, I'm jealous that all of our additions are existing routes, and nothing new. Compared to YYZ and YUL especially, and my worry is there's less opportunities for new destinations at this point. I'm sure we will get increases, but I feel like they will be same old.

As for the new AC routes from the Investors Day, I would actually be really happy with the new domestic and transborder additions, it isn't the same for some reason as new international long haul. Right now IAD is once weekly seasonal so I'm sure if AC came in, it would be much more substantial, and welcomed. Same with possible year-round BOS. Orlando is alright but ya not earth shattering at all, I believe they might be the US destination with the most unique routes to Canadian cities (up there with Vegas) so it's not exciting.

The YHZ additional would be excellent, it is such a glaring piece missing from AC's YVR network at present. I feel like it would greatly stimulate more connections between East and West coasts, as there is lots of ties and commonalities actually, but the distance and lack of direct service hinders more cross-inrteraction (almost all of my friends are from NS so I see a lot of the cross-country dynamics and know a proper non-stop flight on AC would do wonders. The existing WS red-eye in summer isn't my cup of tea, but I know some people like red eyes.

We just really really need at least 1 SA destination (Lima?) and another Asian destination (I'd even be happy with MNL even though it still proves my opinion on taking on existing routes lol)

Gordon
Mar 5, 2019, 4:40 AM
I wonder if any of the the new D pier gates will be trip;e headed briges for the A 380( 3rd bridge attaches up to the upper deck.)

Hourglass
Mar 5, 2019, 5:28 AM
I wonder if any of the the new D pier gates will be trip;e headed briges for the A 380( 3rd bridge attaches up to the upper deck.)

I'm guessing probably not, since Airbus is halting production of the A380. So few airlines use it on their Vancouver routes it doesn't seem like it would be worth the investment.

Johnny Aussie
Mar 5, 2019, 5:57 AM
I'm guessing probably not, since Airbus is halting production of the A380. So few airlines use it on their Vancouver routes it doesn't seem like it would be worth the investment.

Only BA uses it to YVR and only for 6 months of the year. With other airlines very unlikely to fly them here, A380 days are numbered. In the short term maybe one is under construction but definitely not required.

Gordon
Mar 5, 2019, 3:24 PM
I think YVR should convert all D Pier gates that are used for international flights to dual headed bridges( gatse 53 54 66 & 67)

casper
Mar 6, 2019, 7:53 PM
I think YVR should convert all D Pier gates that are used for international flights to dual headed bridges( gatse 53 54 66 & 67)

They do have a few international flights that go out on single aisle aircraft. Mostly Mexico and Iceland.

Gordon
Mar 6, 2019, 8:54 PM
They can still move one of the bridges out of the way for single aisle planes

SpongeG
Mar 6, 2019, 10:20 PM
New RELAY Opens in Pier C
March 6, 2019 · Liam Graham

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/blog/2019/storefront-relay.jpg?h=450&w=600&la=en&hash=3142FE6C13CAFD66E37379C4974CB0FBF430E8CA

RELAY is one of the most popular travel store chains in the world, with more than 1,100 locations around the globe. Wherever you venture, you’re sure to have seen their iconic red signs where you can find the perfect accessories and souvenirs for your trip.

A brand new RELAY recently opened in our Domestic Terminal Building near Gate C31 for all your travel convenience needs. RELAY offers essentials like chargers, snacks and drinks along with a wide selection of souvenirs.

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/blog/2019/storefront-relay-2.jpg?h=450&w=600&la=en&hash=C733783F10BEB0F5913FB58CEA22EB509B35B5FB

...

http://www.yvr.ca/en/blog/2019/new-relay-opens?fbclid=IwAR2yXtarWtsPsrv7WkhpkUBY3gOmKPJNal-pkPvuzf5cUvLhLYviKdcIjy8

thenoflyzone
Mar 6, 2019, 11:06 PM
Largest unserved Canadian routes to some of the main Asian hubs:

rolling 12 months O&D numbers

PEK-YOW 25,850 (13th largest unserved route from PEK)
YUL-HKG 34,782 (10th largest unserved market from HKG)
YYC-HKG 41,814 (5th largest unserved market from HKG)
SIN-YVR 39,790 (5th largest unserved market from SIN)
SIN-YYZ 40,841 (4th largest unserve market from SIN)
ICN-YYC 34,950 (12th largest unserved market from ICN)
BKK-YVR 59,820 (14th largest unserved market from BKK)
DEL-YYC 55,154 (9th largest unserved market from DEL)
DEL-YEG 42,050 (14th largest unserved market from DEL)

https://www.anna.aero/2019/03/06/100-routes-asias-top-10-airports-non-stop-service/

Of note, YYZ-SIN is slightly larger. Also BKK-North America is massively underserved. BKK-LAX/SFO/JFK/ORD are all larger than BKK-YVR, with no non-stop.

nname
Mar 6, 2019, 11:49 PM
Largest unserved Canadian routes to some of the main Asian hubs:

rolling 12 months O&D numbers

PEK-YOW 25,850 (13th largest unserved route from PEK)
YUL-HKG 34,782 (10th largest unserved market from HKG)
YYC-HKG 41,814 (5th largest unserved market from HKG)
SIN-YVR 39,790 (5th largest unserved market from SIN)
SIN-YYZ 40,841 (4th largest unserve market from SIN)
ICN-YYC 34,950 (12th largest unserved market from ICN)
BKK-YVR 59,820 (14th largest unserved market from BKK)
DEL-YYC 55,154 (9th largest unserved market from DEL)
DEL-YEG 42,050 (14th largest unserved market from DEL)

https://www.anna.aero/2019/03/06/100-routes-asias-top-10-airports-non-stop-service/

Of note, YYZ-SIN is slightly larger. Also BKK-North America is massively underserved. BKK-LAX/SFO/JFK/ORD are all larger than BKK-YVR, with no non-stop.

Obviously there's no way AC could run non-stop YYZ-SIN... but if they do YYZ-YVR-SIN similar to SYD, does that means it will serve the O&D market of 80,000? :D
That sure is enough demand to fill a plane at 3 or 4 flights per week. But whether they can compete with Asian carriers and still have high enough yield is another story...

nname
Mar 7, 2019, 12:16 AM
They do have a few international flights that go out on single aisle aircraft. Mostly Mexico and Iceland.

Speaking of Mexico.... AM further increase summer service YVR-MEX to 17x weekly June to Aug (from 16x weekly). Additional flights on Thursday.

Interjet still keep 4x weekly so far, but that may change. 4O had recently increase YUL-MEX to daily, and YYZ-MEX will also be daily starting August.

mezzanine
Mar 7, 2019, 1:36 AM
Obviously there's no way AC could run non-stop YYZ-SIN... but if they do YYZ-YVR-SIN similar to SYD, does that means it will serve the O&D market of 80,000? :D
That sure is enough demand to fill a plane at 3 or 4 flights per week. But whether they can compete with Asian carriers and still have high enough yield is another story...

I hope AC develops its east coast USA/ SE Asia/Oceania bank further. It's a niche that would lend itself to further synergy. the EWR flight could be banked with other US east coast destinations (year-round BOS, new IAD, even MIA would dovetail with it, and DCA eventually if a slot opens up and AC makes its bones in IAD. It would bank with AC flights to MEL, SYD, AUK, DEL with destinations like SIN. Even MNL if AC wants it seems more viable. BKK, KUL and CGK are also huge - I wonder how much premium market/yield there is. SGN likely won't grow as much for now due to visa requirements for Americans/Canadians.

Canadian74
Mar 7, 2019, 3:25 AM
DEL-YYC 55,154 (9th largest unserved market from DEL)
DEL-YEG 42,050 (14th largest unserved market from DEL)


Almost 100k between the 2..... i wonder if there's a market for seasonal 3 weekly 787 YYC-DEL. AC won't do it, they'll want you to fly YYC-YVR-DEL.
J class might be difficult anyways

How large was YVR-DEL when it was launched?

trofirhen
Mar 7, 2019, 6:59 AM
DEL-YYC 55,154 (9th largest unserved market from DEL)
DEL-YEG 42,050 (14th largest unserved market from DEL)

Repeating the statistics from above, with these numbers, would not a YYC-YEG-DEL be feasible? That way people would be able to stay on the same plane without changing at YVR.
.........plus, the numbers seem to be there.

nname
Mar 7, 2019, 10:47 AM
Seems like Hong Kong Airlines is further reducing operation. Starting Sept 9th, service for YVR-HKG will be reduced to 3x weekly on days 136 for YVR departures.

Pretty much all of their long-hual routes will see significant cut, most likely due to their fleet reduction (https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/hong-kong-airlines-looks-to-consolidate-fleet-456297/)

thebus
Mar 7, 2019, 6:21 PM
Repeating the statistics from above, with these numbers, would not a YYC-YEG-DEL be feasible? That way people would be able to stay on the same plane without changing at YVR.
.........plus, the numbers seem to be there.

I imagine YVR-DEL draws quite a few passengers from both YEG and YYC so in the end it might impact YVR-DEL more than AC would like. Good chance that many Europe bound passengers from YEG and YYC are headed to India too, thus would erode some of those connections away and potentially impact the viability of those flights.

casper
Mar 8, 2019, 12:39 AM
Obviously there's no way AC could run non-stop YYZ-SIN... but if they do YYZ-YVR-SIN similar to SYD, does that means it will serve the O&D market of 80,000? :D
That sure is enough demand to fill a plane at 3 or 4 flights per week. But whether they can compete with Asian carriers and still have high enough yield is another story...

When AC last served SIN, I believe it was YVR-LHR-DEL-SIN may have started in Toronto. I don't think those case will be coming back.

zahav
Mar 9, 2019, 10:57 PM
I didn't realize YVR-HKG ever went 787?

Air Canada in this week’s schedule update revised planned operational aircraft for Vancouver – Hong Kong route, effective 27OCT19. For winter 2019/20 season, the Star Alliance carrier will continue to serve this route with 450-seater Boeing 777-300ER, instead of Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner.

Following schedule effective 03NOV19 – 23FEB20.

AC007 YVR1210 – 1750+1HKG 77W D
AC008 HKG2000 – 1535YVR 77W D

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/283294/air-canada-w19-vancouver-hong-kong-aircraft-changes-as-of-07mar19/

xd_1771
Mar 10, 2019, 4:47 AM
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/JAL-bets-new-budget-airline-can-go-distance-to-US-and-Europe


For long-haul flights, Zipair will "first consider North America, and later Europe," Shingo Nishida, the unit's president, told a news conference. He did not give specific destinations, but said Zipair will aim to debut long-haul service as early as 2021.
The article title says US but I feel like Vancouver is an extremely strong consideration for this new ZIPAIR from Tokyo, Japan...

officedweller
Mar 13, 2019, 10:12 AM
MacArthur Glen Outlets Expansion

Have they announced a big anchor tenant?
Looks like one really big 2-level anchor unit there.

By City of Rain Feb 17, 2019:


https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7923/40166014553_f2906cb92e_b.jpgIMG_5518 (https://flic.kr/p/24ckjLi) by Hung Lam (https://www.flickr.com/photos/147784253@N06/), on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7921/40166013183_f7c6846c5a_b.jpgIMG_5521 (https://flic.kr/p/24ckjmF) by Hung Lam (https://www.flickr.com/photos/147784253@N06/), on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7818/32188930657_26718ecf52_b.jpgIMG_5525 (https://flic.kr/p/R3qFD4) by Hung Lam (https://www.flickr.com/photos/147784253@N06/), on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7832/32188929587_0ecd19131a_b.jpgIMG_5529 (https://flic.kr/p/R3qFjB) by Hung Lam (https://www.flickr.com/photos/147784253@N06/), on Flickr

whatnext
Mar 13, 2019, 7:18 PM
MacArthur Glen Outlets Expansion

Have they announced a big anchor tenant?
Looks like one really big 2-level anchor unit there.

By City of Rain Feb 17, 2019:

I had asked this upthread: doesn anyone know of that larger building is meant to be one store, more like an "anchor" than the others?

SpongeG
Mar 13, 2019, 9:03 PM
they are not giving any clues, how soon does it open because there are no job openings posted yet.

officedweller
Mar 13, 2019, 10:33 PM
The weird thing is that I don't know of any Nordstrom Racks or Saks Off 5ths being 2 storeys in an outlet / strip mall setting.

There also seems to be a high ceiling'd building in the middle of the new expansion, too.
I see beams for a floor, but the 2nd storey ceiling height looks low.

Johnny Aussie
Mar 15, 2019, 1:35 AM
United Summer 2018 changes

UA will have:

17 daily flights M-F of which only one will be Express (one of the two LAX)
19 flights on Saturdays with an additional flight to SFO (Express) and the once weekly IAD
18 flights on Sundays with an additional mainline flight to ORD

Last summer UA flew 16 daily (13 mainline and 3 Express)

The main changes are the additional daily IAH and 2 Expresss flights moved to mainline (one DEN and one LAX)

SpongeG
Mar 15, 2019, 4:15 AM
The weird thing is that I don't know of any Nordstrom Racks or Saks Off 5ths being 2 storeys in an outlet / strip mall setting.

There also seems to be a high ceiling'd building in the middle of the new expansion, too.
I see beams for a floor, but the 2nd storey ceiling height looks low.

The first phase has one building that is two storeys, one part is for Ralph Lauren, the rest is offices and public washrooms. Maybe the same thing for there?

Gordon
Mar 15, 2019, 5:28 PM
Are there any updates on the Pier d expansion & The East apron remote stands construction?

CloudInspector
Mar 15, 2019, 6:37 PM
Are there any updates on the Pier d expansion & The East apron remote stands construction?

Taxiing by the D pier yesterday it looks like the framing for the extension is well under way. Not sure about the east apron but there is construction between taxiways Juliet and Victor. I’m guessing more de-icing bays? Also remodelling is happening on the old section of the B pier.

Any idea what’s happening with the pile of dirt just east of the encore gates? I’m assuming it’ll be a more permanent home for encore but I heard something about a hangar?

LeftCoaster
Mar 16, 2019, 12:37 AM
The Investor Day presentation does open up the possibilities...

With the economics of the A220 ("unparalleled operating economics") certainly some new routes will pop up. Another game changer plane for NA ops. Just like the Dreamliner has been for long-haul ops for AC at YVR.
Based on the numbers I would say AC will start YVR to IAD, MCO, IAH and MIA/FLL (either one) would most likely get the nod. Some of these have been identified as possible routes in the Investor Day 2019 presentation already. I could also see some current routes such as ORD and DFW switched to mainline 220s. Once you start going further down the list things still get a bit more iffy. No we won't be seeing nonstop flights to Kansas City, Pittsburgh, Omaha or Austin (yet).

This is based on market numbers and not just a whine for more routes based on some sort of inferiority complex.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/170816/dq170816b-cansim-eng.htm

Still quite surprised Austin is not much higher on ACs radar. WS making a go of it from YYC with lower O&D and much less business ties.

I am really excited for the A220, more so than any narrow body. I think it is really going to transform transborder at YVR.

Obviously there's no way AC could run non-stop YYZ-SIN... but if they do YYZ-YVR-SIN similar to SYD, does that means it will serve the O&D market of 80,000? :D
That sure is enough demand to fill a plane at 3 or 4 flights per week. But whether they can compete with Asian carriers and still have high enough yield is another story...

Only problem with SIN is that it's not a seasonal route so it doesn't totally fit ACs plan of seeking out long haul routes in the winter. If you do SIN you need to do it 12 months a year or it's not happening.

I didn't realize YVR-HKG ever went 787?

Air Canada in this week’s schedule update revised planned operational aircraft for Vancouver – Hong Kong route, effective 27OCT19. For winter 2019/20 season, the Star Alliance carrier will continue to serve this route with 450-seater Boeing 777-300ER, instead of Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner.

Following schedule effective 03NOV19 – 23FEB20.

AC007 YVR1210 – 1750+1HKG 77W D
AC008 HKG2000 – 1535YVR 77W D

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/283294/air-canada-w19-vancouver-hong-kong-aircraft-changes-as-of-07mar19/

Kinda shows that the HK Airlines drawdowns are not a symptom of performance and more their own internal issues. If I were AC/Cathay I'd sense the blood in the water and really ram up the seats on NA-HKG.

United Summer 2018 changes

UA will have:

17 daily flights M-F of which only one will be Express (one of the two LAX)
19 flights on Saturdays with an additional flight to SFO (Express) and the once weekly IAD
18 flights on Sundays with an additional mainline flight to ORD

Last summer UA flew 16 daily (13 mainline and 3 Express)

The main changes are the additional daily IAH and 2 Expresss flights moved to mainline (one DEN and one LAX)

Awesome! More and bigger flights. Expecting some decent growth numbers out of transborder this year to soak up some of the weakness in intl.

I've heard some initial numbers from the port regarding cruise ship schedules that this should be a big growth year for them, supporting the increase in transborder.

Johnny Aussie
Mar 16, 2019, 12:56 AM
Kinda shows that the HK Airlines drawdowns are not a symptom of performance and more their own internal issues. If I were AC/Cathay I'd sense the blood in the water and really ram up the seats on NA-HKG.

They've all but pulled out of Oceania... Gold Coast and Cairns already cancelled.... AKL is gone soon too.

officedweller
Mar 16, 2019, 1:52 AM
The first phase has one building that is two storeys, one part is for Ralph Lauren, the rest is offices and public washrooms. Maybe the same thing for there?

Upstairs offices makes sense - there seems to be a lower ceiling height.

My guess for the big white 2 storey building is Nordstrom Rack
- purely based on the space on the facade for signage (2 line logo).
(although Saks Off 5th has similar logo proportions, but HBC is closing stores)

s211
Mar 16, 2019, 3:40 AM
Upstairs offices makes sense - there seems to be a lower ceiling height.

My guess for the big white 2 storey building is Nordstrom Rack
- purely based on the space on the facade for signage (2 line logo).
(although Saks Off 5th has similar logo proportions, but HBC is closing stores)

The Rack would probably make a killing there.

(The new Rack in Edmonton might as well be a Saks off Fifth. It's 99% junk.)

trofirhen
Mar 16, 2019, 8:39 AM
I am worndering what effect the grounding, by Trump, and as I understand by Air Canada, of all 737- max jets will have on flights, and on passenger capacity not only at YVR but elsewhere.
How long will the grounding last (anyone have an idea?) ... what per centage is already carried by 737-max (any airline), and what model of aircraft can be used to pinch-hit?

Hourglass
Mar 16, 2019, 1:42 PM
I am worndering what effect the grounding, by Trump, and as I understand by Air Canada, of all 737- max jets will have on flights, and on passenger capacity not only at YVR but elsewhere.
How long will the grounding last (anyone have an idea?) ... what per centage is already carried by 737-max (any airline), and what model of aircraft can be used to pinch-hit?

Two crashes of the same model within 6 months, suspected similar causes, and hundreds of fatalities? The MAX will be grounded for weeks, if not months. You can find active discussions (informed and otherwise) on airliners.net here:

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1417831&hilit=Air+canada

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1417545

Migrant_Coconut
Mar 16, 2019, 7:44 PM
(facepalm) (https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-international-airport-richmond-noise-runway-yvr)

Richmond urging YVR Airport to use runway close to Vancouver more often

The City of Richmond is formally asking the federal government to allow Vancouver International Airport to use its North Runway more often in a bid to reduce aeronautical noise in Richmond’s residential neighbourhoods.

Minutes from a Richmond city council meeting, held on March 4, indicate that councillors requested a letter be written to Marc Garneau, the federal Minister of Transport, asking that “the North Runway… be better utilized for aircraft departures to lessen the impact of aircraft noise on the people of Richmond.”

Noise issues are increasingly a concern for Richmond’s municipal government, which has focused much of its residential densification plans in northwest Richmond, just east of the airport, where its suburban city centre is located — around Canada Line stations.

Built in 1996 as a part of YVR’s modernization expansion project, the North Runway — close to Vancouver — is used mainly for arrivals and normally closed from 10 pm to 7 am. These restrictions are imposed by NAV Canada.

The original South Runway, located south of the main terminal, which has flight paths directly over Richmond, is the longest and used for both arrivals and departures 24/7.

“Discussion took place on aircraft noise concerns on the north and south runways and whether the City of Vancouver has implemented noise mitigation requirements for developments on Vancouver’s south side across from YVR’s north runway,” reads the minutes.

As a result of the discussions, the City of Richmond will also send a letter to the City of Vancouver “suggesting that noise attenuation measures in new construction be implemented to mitigate airport noise.”

Representatives with the Vancouver Airport Authority informed Richmond city council during the meeting that YVR is not in favour of a nighttime curfew on airport operations due to its geographical seat on the west coast of North America, and there is potential to expand evening flight operations.

YVR is experiencing significant year-over-year passenger growth, with 25.94 million passengers recorded in 2018 — up from 17.6 million in 2012. By 2022, the airport is expecting to reach as many as 31 million passengers.

Some major international airports busier than YVR practice nighttime curfews to address noise issues. Strict curfew regulations at Sydney Airport prevent aircraft from taking off and landing between 11 pm and 6 am, but this practice is increasingly being questioned as it is making it difficult for the airport to tackle its congestion problems.

London’s Heathrow Airport also restricts nighttime aircraft movements to just 5,800 take-offs and landings per year between 11:30 am and 6 am.

According to YVR, a total of 920 aeronautical noise concerns from 250 individuals in Metro Vancouver were reported throughout 2018, representing a 29% decrease in the number of concerns over the same period in 2017. Nearly half (457 out of 920) of the total number of reports were made by just three people in Richmond regarding jet departures and run-ups during the overnight hours.

In the meeting, YVR officials also expressed that they would like to see 24/7 public transit service to the airport. Currently, the Canada Line’s first train from Waterfront Station to YVR Airport Station is at 4:48 am and the last train is at 1:05 am. For trips departing from YVR Airport Station, the first train is at 5:07 am and the last train at 12:56 am.

fredinno
Mar 16, 2019, 8:34 PM
(facepalm) (https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-international-airport-richmond-noise-runway-yvr)

The solution spears to be simple, and it's not moving the airplanes. ;)

Either way, do these people think that moving the planes to the North Runway is going to solve anything? People living in Marpole are going to complain, then.

If Richmond didn't want to deal with Airplane noise, Richmond City Centre shouldn't have been designated so close to the airport, and the warehouses should have been kept. What do they think's going to happen when Richmond dumps people right next to an airplane runway?

Migrant_Coconut
Mar 16, 2019, 8:47 PM
The solution spears to be simple, and it's not moving the airplanes. ;)

Either way, do these people think that moving the planes to the North Runway is going to solve anything? People living in Marpole are going to complain, then.

If Richmond didn't want to deal with Airplane noise, Richmond City Centre shouldn't have been designated so close to the airport, and the warehouses should have been kept. What do they think's going to happen when Richmond dumps people right next to an airplane runway?

If you have the time to write over a hundred letters a year, you generally don't have the intelligence and/or empathy to care about people on the other side of the river.

libtard
Mar 16, 2019, 10:46 PM
The solution spears to be simple, and it's not moving the airplanes. ;)

Either way, do these people think that moving the planes to the North Runway is going to solve anything? People living in Marpole are going to complain, then.

If Richmond didn't want to deal with Airplane noise, Richmond City Centre shouldn't have been designated so close to the airport, and the warehouses should have been kept. What do they think's going to happen when Richmond dumps people right next to an airplane runway?

Airplanes using the North runway aren’t flying over marpole residents heads. It’s still south of the river. Seems like a win/win for everyone. Having a curfew on the north runway makes no sense

casper
Mar 17, 2019, 6:30 AM
I am worndering what effect the grounding, by Trump, and as I understand by Air Canada, of all 737- max jets will have on flights, and on passenger capacity not only at YVR but elsewhere.
How long will the grounding last (anyone have an idea?) ... what per centage is already carried by 737-max (any airline), and what model of aircraft can be used to pinch-hit?

Most of the world banned the max aircraft. Canada and the US were the last to hold out. Canada grounded the aircraft and then a few hours later the US followed.

Both WestJet and AC have significant fleets of MAX. They are just going to move aircraft around and cancel flights.

Boeing is working on some software changes to remove the bug that caused the first crash (and potentially the second one was the same software bug). We are probably a few weeks away from the software upgrade being ready and installed.

fredinno
Mar 17, 2019, 5:12 PM
Airplanes using the North runway aren’t flying over marpole residents heads. It’s still south of the river. Seems like a win/win for everyone. Having a curfew on the north runway makes no sense

So was the South Runway until they started dumping people into Richmond T. Centre.

This is Richmond's, and the resident's fault, not YVRs.

Not to mention the North Runway's flight path actually goes above Bridgeport Stn, not the river, where in a couple years, there's going to be exactly the same problem from residents.

The North Runway is also shorter than the South Runway, so less versatile.

libtard
Mar 17, 2019, 5:58 PM
So was the South Runway until they started dumping people into Richmond T. Centre.

This is Richmond's, and the resident's fault, not YVRs.

Not to mention the North Runway's flight path actually goes above Bridgeport Stn, not the river, where in a couple years, there's going to be exactly the same problem from residents.

The North Runway is also shorter than the South Runway, so less versatile.

Using the North runway will have less impact on less people though. Like I said it’s a win/win. Marpole residents won’t notice it and less people in Richmond will hear the planes.

whatnext
Mar 17, 2019, 7:02 PM
The solution spears to be simple, and it's not moving the airplanes. ;)

Either way, do these people think that moving the planes to the North Runway is going to solve anything? People living in Marpole are going to complain, then.

If Richmond didn't want to deal with Airplane noise, Richmond City Centre shouldn't have been designated so close to the airport, and the warehouses should have been kept. What do they think's going to happen when Richmond dumps people right next to an airplane runway?

Richmond has been an example of disastrous planning for years. They knowingly keep approving development under the flightpath.

s211
Mar 17, 2019, 9:07 PM
Richmond has been an example of disastrous planning for years. They knowingly keep approving development under the flightpath.

Hmmmm... kind of like how they approved multi-residential right next to the Steveston/Hwy 99 interchange, and then the Hwy 99 upgrade was proposed. I got lots of good laughs at Richmond staff's hissy-fits freaking out at the Province, but it was really dumb-@ass planning on the city's part to put a project like that right next to a major highway interchange.

thenoflyzone
Mar 17, 2019, 10:25 PM
According to someone on airliners.net, AC301/302 YUL-YVR-YUL will be flown by a TS A332 as of next week.

fredinno
Mar 18, 2019, 6:27 PM
Using the North runway will have less impact on less people though. Like I said it’s a win/win. Marpole residents won’t notice it and less people in Richmond will hear the planes.

Until the Duck Island redevelopment is complete, then THOSE people will be complaining about living under the flightpath.

nname
Mar 19, 2019, 8:59 PM
So much of getting rid of Rouge...

With the grounding of 737 MAX, Rouge 767 will be back to Vancouver

YVR-HNL
March: 1x daily 77W
April: 1x daily 788
May: 1x daily Rouge 767
June: 1x daily Rouge 767

YVR-OGG
March: 1x daily 789
April: 1x daily Rouge 767
May: 1x daily Rouge 767
June: 1x daily Rouge 767

For the month of May, there will be also 1x daily YVR-YYZ with Rouge 767.

libtard
Mar 20, 2019, 12:26 AM
Richmond has been an example of disastrous planning for years. They knowingly keep approving development under the flightpath.

The fact that even under a flight path developers continue to invest in the area shows that’s quite brilliant planning. You don’t think the densification along No. 3 road is good?

fredinno
Mar 20, 2019, 7:03 PM
The fact that even under a flight path developers continue to invest in the area shows that’s quite brilliant planning. You don’t think the densification along No. 3 road is good?

I would think removing industrial lands (like the South Fraserlands) is disastrous planning, but that doesn't stop people from investing heavily in the area.

Or the Surrey LRT. Developers started snatching up property in Newton in anticipation, until it got kiboshed.

Just because an area is being invested heavily in, it's not necessarily good planning. It means there's demand for new property. (plus, the property tax is a LVT, meaning that investors have every incentive to build, or even overbuild, to mitigate tax $$$.)

The densification on No.3 Rd isn't exactly bad- it's not like the Canada Line extends south of it- just Richmond shouldn't be complaining when people complain- it's their fault.

Rogie
Mar 26, 2019, 2:57 PM
Harbour Air is looking to go all-electric.

A Beaver will be converted and tested starting later this year, with the aim to certify by 2022 and the goal to eventually convert the whole fleet to electric.

https://westernaviationnews.com/2019/03/26/harbour-air-magnix-electric-aviation/

SpongeG
Mar 26, 2019, 8:29 PM
March 24, 2019 5:27 pm
Place your bets: Vancouver airport holds bracket to find best-looking plane

By Sean Boynton Online Journalist Global News

Beauty contests may be fading in popularity, but what about when planes are involved?

Vancouver International Airport is putting that to the test by holding a contest on its Instagram page to find out which airplane flying in and out of YVR has the best look of the bunch.

Dubbed “Last Livery Standing,” the bracket features 32 planes that service Metro Vancouver, broken into four “conferences”: domestic, international/U.S., Asia-Pacific and a “special” category that includes limited-edition planes like WestJet’s Mickey Mouse jet.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2SMcWSUkAA_Z3w.jpg
from twitter (https://twitter.com/yvrairport/status/1109165939667304448/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1109165939667304448&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fglobalnews.ca%2Fnews%2F5091017%2Fyvr-best-looking-plane-contest%2F)

...

https://globalnews.ca/news/5091017/yvr-best-looking-plane-contest/

zahav
Mar 27, 2019, 7:30 AM
January stats posted, and mediocre results with some surprises:

Domestic: +3.5%
Transborder: +2.4%
International: +6.3% (Asia Pac +9.8%, Europe -1.2%, Misc. -0.3%)

Surprsied by the strength in Asia Pac, surprised by the decline in Europe and Misc., which had been posting huge % gains all last year. What happened in January, was there any major geopolitical issue that could've explained the drop?

thenoflyzone
Mar 27, 2019, 2:45 PM
January stats posted, and mediocre results with some surprises:

Domestic: +3.5%
Transborder: +2.4%
International: +6.3% (Asia Pac +9.8%, Europe -1.2%, Misc. -0.3%)

Surprsied by the strength in Asia Pac, surprised by the decline in Europe and Misc., which had been posting huge % gains all last year. What happened in January, was there any major geopolitical issue that could've explained the drop?

It's still an overall 4.0% increase. Dec 2018 was even weaker. (+2.8%)

Intl charters seem to have taken a hit in January.

trofirhen
Mar 27, 2019, 4:38 PM
January stats posted, and mediocre results with some surprises:

Domestic: +3.5%
Transborder: +2.4%
International: +6.3% (Asia Pac +9.8%, Europe -1.2%, Misc. -0.3%)

Surprsied by the strength in Asia Pac, surprised by the decline in Europe and Misc., which had been posting huge % gains all last year. What happened in January, was there any major geopolitical issue that could've explained the drop?

That slight January 2019 dip in European traffic just might have been caused by the Yellow Vest uprisings all over the streets, and powerful anti-immigrant movements in Germany and elsewhere. In Paris, the police have been using teargas and rubber bullets.
In Germany, many mainsream citizens are takin' it to the streets. It's very tense here right now; maybe that's it.
Europe is in a real shake-up right now with a mangled BREXIT deal hanging over it, member nations rumbling about leaving the EU, a major shift to the political right (related to the migrant issue) ... and a feeling of uncertainty and malaise. Not the best conditions for attracting tourists.

LeftCoaster
Mar 27, 2019, 6:45 PM
Surprsied by the strength in Asia Pac, surprised by the decline in Europe and Misc., which had been posting huge % gains all last year. What happened in January, was there any major geopolitical issue that could've explained the drop?

Well there are almost no carriers flying Vancouver --> Europe in January, so any little change is a big % difference.

Non daily service from KLM and AF, daily Lufthansa to Frankfurt and daily AC/BA to London.

The actual drop was 273 people. That's less than one flight. Could have even been a cancellation and people were routed through other Canadian airports so the PAX were recorded as domestic not International.

I'm pretty pleased with 4% growth. I think this year is going to be abysmal for YVR, given the amount of cuts coming to international flying this summer. Only good years from domestic and transborder will keep things positive.

With most of the S19 changes wrapped up I'll post my summer frequency/seats tracker.

https://i.imgur.com/mU7kkTt.png?1

As you can see seats in 2019 are actually 2.6% lower than 2018, so I'm expecting flat to negative growth this summer internationally. AsiaPac in particular looks brutal with cuts all over.

Rogie
Mar 27, 2019, 7:07 PM
YVR was awarded the Skytrax award for Best Airport in North America for the 10th straight year, beating out Denver and Atlanta. Toronto was 7th, Montreal 10th.

https://wp.me/p2cMjz-tU

SpongeG
Mar 27, 2019, 8:20 PM
Is there a direct flight from Vancouver to Singapore?

A friend is going to Singapore next week and he said his flight is direct but I didn't know we had direct flights there.

Johnny Aussie
Mar 28, 2019, 12:16 AM
Well there are almost no carriers flying Vancouver --> Europe in January, so any little change is a big % difference.

Non daily service from KLM and AF, daily Lufthansa to Frankfurt and daily AC/BA to London.

The actual drop was 273 people. That's less than one flight. Could have even been a cancellation and people were routed through other Canadian airports so the PAX were recorded as domestic not International.

I'm pretty pleased with 4% growth. I think this year is going to be abysmal for YVR, given the amount of cuts coming to international flying this summer. Only good years from domestic and transborder will keep things positive.

With most of the S19 changes wrapped up I'll post my summer frequency/seats tracker.

https://i.imgur.com/mU7kkTt.png?1

As you can see seats in 2019 are actually 2.6% lower than 2018, so I'm expecting flat to negative growth this summer internationally. AsiaPac in particular looks brutal with cuts all over.

Thanks again for your awesome chart! I’ll audit it later :)

I guess YVR couldn’t continue with that unprecedented growth over the last three years. Comparing the chart to 10 years ago though you sure get a good idea how far YVR has managed to grow. Definitely a year of slower growth in 2019. 4% isn’t anything to sneeze at though.

Rogie
Mar 28, 2019, 1:09 AM
Thanks again for your awesome chart! I’ll audit it later :)

I guess YVR couldn’t continue with that unprecedented growth over the last three years. Comparing the chart to 10 years ago though you sure get a good idea how far YVR has managed to grow. Definitely a year of slower growth in 2019. 4% isn’t anything to sneeze at though.

You're right. 4% may give them a little breathing room to catch up with all the construction projects going on.

Johnny Aussie
Mar 28, 2019, 9:07 AM
You're right. 4% may give them a little breathing room to catch up with all the construction projects going on.

4% growth is a stable strong growth rate. In Australia the slow down in growth is even more pronounced.... 4% growth would be phenomenal.

Johnny Aussie
Mar 28, 2019, 11:06 AM
Not really relevant to YVR anymore but WOW Air is done.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-03-28/wow-air-cancels-all-flights-as-it-seeks-to-seal-financing-deal

https://wowair.com/travel-alert/

Hourglass
Mar 28, 2019, 4:03 PM
What’s behind the decrease in seats to/from Asia? 7.3% is a pretty significant drop!

memememe76
Mar 28, 2019, 5:34 PM
China?

Canadian74
Mar 28, 2019, 7:59 PM
Is there a direct flight from Vancouver to Singapore?

A friend is going to Singapore next week and he said his flight is direct but I didn't know we had direct flights there.

No, there isn't. There is no nonstop, and there is no direct either (same plane with stop)

There will definitely be a stop and change of plane somewhere

nname
Mar 28, 2019, 8:27 PM
What’s behind the decrease in seats to/from Asia? 7.3% is a pretty significant drop!

AC use smaller plane for PEK and PVG due to overcapacity
PR no longer route YYZ and JFK traffic through YVR
Rouge removal from AC meaning seat reduction for KIX and NGO (plus DUB)

SpongeG
Mar 28, 2019, 8:31 PM
No, there isn't. There is no nonstop, and there is no direct either (same plane with stop)

There will definitely be a stop and change of plane somewhere

yeah thats what I thought, I asked where he was stopping over and he said it was straight to singapore. :shrug:

nname
Mar 28, 2019, 8:31 PM
Well there are almost no carriers flying Vancouver --> Europe in January, so any little change is a big % difference.

Non daily service from KLM and AF, daily Lufthansa to Frankfurt and daily AC/BA to London.

The actual drop was 273 people. That's less than one flight. Could have even been a cancellation and people were routed through other Canadian airports so the PAX were recorded as domestic not International.

As you can see seats in 2019 are actually 2.6% lower than 2018, so I'm expecting flat to negative growth this summer internationally. AsiaPac in particular looks brutal with cuts all over.

It may also have to do with more direct service to Delhi? Maybe that 273 people choose to fly direct rather than transit through Europe :D

It will be interesting to see March and April number though..
would DEL-CPH-YVR count as Asia-Pacific or Europe?
would DEL-YVR-YYZ gives extra boost to Asia-Pacific and Domestic numbers?
MAX grounding would hurt numbers, but some will also provide a boost, like some of the YYC-OGG flights become one stop YYC-YVR-OGG
some misc international number might shift to domestic, for instance, CUN-YVR became CUN-YWG-YVR

As for the chart...
CA currently stands at 11x weekly next summer.
BR had always been using a mix of HD and non-HD for Vancouver route.
AM now scheduled to run 17x weekly to MEX.

Johnny Aussie
Mar 28, 2019, 9:31 PM
Middle East / North Africa 7 flights per week?

LeftCoaster
Mar 28, 2019, 10:29 PM
AC use smaller plane for PEK and PVG due to overcapacity
PR no longer route YYZ and JFK traffic through YVR
Rouge removal from AC meaning seat reduction for KIX and NGO (plus DUB)

Plus reduced frequency on AC to Taipei and CZ to Guangzhou.

Qantas also cut their summer service, which is weird since I just started getting flooded with instagram ads to fly Qantas from Canada to Australia...

It may also have to do with more direct service to Delhi? Maybe that 273 people choose to fly direct rather than transit through Europe :D

It will be interesting to see March and April number though..
would DEL-CPH-YVR count as Asia-Pacific or Europe?
would DEL-YVR-YYZ gives extra boost to Asia-Pacific and Domestic numbers?
MAX grounding would hurt numbers, but some will also provide a boost, like some of the YYC-OGG flights become one stop YYC-YVR-OGG
some misc international number might shift to domestic, for instance, CUN-YVR became CUN-YWG-YVR

As for the chart...
CA currently stands at 11x weekly next summer.
BR had always been using a mix of HD and non-HD for Vancouver route.
AM now scheduled to run 17x weekly to MEX.

Ya March April will be interesting times for all of Canada's airports.

Where are you seeing EVA's HD vs non? I only see 777W on their website.

Also was CA 11 last summer too? I'm guessing this isn't an increase.

Middle East / North Africa 7 flights per week?

Haha that's just me being lazy. I created that category when I was putting together YUL and never bothered to find a better name for it beyond Africa/Middle East/Central+South Asia.

Those 7 flights are Delhi.

Hourglass
Mar 28, 2019, 10:46 PM
AC use smaller plane for PEK and PVG due to overcapacity
PR no longer route YYZ and JFK traffic through YVR
Rouge removal from AC meaning seat reduction for KIX and NGO (plus DUB)

Tks nname. I’m guessing AC’s decision to reroute the return YYZ-DEL via YVR might mitigate the numbers a bit? In any case, I think there’s a risk YVR’s numbers will get hit by continuing tensions with China.

@LeftCoaster tks for putting this epic spreadsheet together. Really shows how impressive YVR’s international ops are.

trofirhen
Mar 28, 2019, 11:22 PM
delete

LeftCoaster
Mar 29, 2019, 12:07 AM
Comparing the chart to 10 years ago though you sure get a good idea how far YVR has managed to grow. Definitely a year of slower growth in 2019. 4% isn’t anything to sneeze at though.

Worth pointing out that every ounce of growth coming this year is above record breaking years, so even low growth is a new record.

Jan 2019 - first January in YVR history to break 2 million.

Just 5 years ago we were at 1.5 million in Jan, so that's pretty incredible.

nname
Mar 29, 2019, 1:06 AM
Where are you seeing EVA's HD vs non? I only see 777W on their website.

By actually taking the flight or looking at the history after it's flown. They both appears the same on schedule I think.

They have 3 versions of 77W:

A. C38W64Y221
B. C39W56Y238
C. C39W56Y258

Here is the assignment for the past year.. bolded month means most common variant.

A.
Apr
May 19,26
Jun
Jul 2-31
Aug 2,3,5-15,18-20,22-31
Sep 1-6,8-18,20-25,26-30
Oct 1,2,4-9,11-16,18-22,24-31
Nov 1,8,10,12,15,17,19,22,26,29
Dec 1,3,22,24
Jan 16,18
Feb 16,20,21
Mar 13

B.
Apr
May
Jun
Jul
Aug 4,16,21
Sep 19,26
Oct 3,17
Nov 3,5,16,24
Dec 10
Jan 26
Feb 23
Mar

C.
Apr 1-30
May 1-18,20-25,27-31
Jun 1-30
Jul 1
Aug 1,17
Sep 7
Oct 10,23
Nov 2,4,6,7,9,11,13,14,18,20,21,23,25,27,28,30
Dec 2,4-9,11-21,23,25-31
Jan 1-15,17,19-25,27-31
Feb 1-15,17-19,22,24-29
Mar 1-12,14-28

As you can see, it's inconsistent, but last winter generally have the HD, summer non-HD, and coin-flip in November.

Source (https://www.flightera.net/flight/BR9)

Johnny Aussie
Mar 29, 2019, 1:25 AM
Haha that's just me being lazy. I created that category when I was putting together YUL and never bothered to find a better name for it beyond Africa/Middle East/Central+South Asia.

Those 7 flights are Delhi.

I would say in YVR's case, lump that in with Asia Pacific - that's where YVR records DEL.

Worth pointing out that every ounce of growth coming this year is above record breaking years, so even low growth is a new record.

Jan 2019 - first January in YVR history to break 2 million.

Just 5 years ago we were at 1.5 million in Jan, so that's pretty incredible.

I did notice that too... first time cracking 2 million. Feb will probably remain the last sub 2 million month.

thenoflyzone
Mar 29, 2019, 1:18 PM
Not really relevant to YVR anymore but WOW Air is done.


Interjet is next.

It may also have to do with more direct service to Delhi? Maybe that 273 people choose to fly direct rather than transit through Europe :D

It will be interesting to see March and April number though..
would DEL-CPH-YVR count as Asia-Pacific or Europe?
would DEL-YVR-YYZ gives extra boost to Asia-Pacific and Domestic numbers?
.

As CPH is a fuel stop, and no pax embark/disembark, DEL-CPH-YVR will count as Asia-Pac.

Also, the domestic leg on DEL-YVR-YYZ isn't for sale, so there should be no boost to domestic numbers from that flight.

Only those passengers disembarking in YVR will count as Asia-Pac and/or domestic/US (if they are connecting). And that number should be minimal, as the flight times aren't optimal.

twoNeurons
Apr 1, 2019, 7:57 AM
yeah thats what I thought, I asked where he was stopping over and he said it was straight to singapore. :shrug:

Sure he's flying out of YVR? SQ has a direct flight from SEA now.

nname
Apr 1, 2019, 5:19 PM
Also, the domestic leg on DEL-YVR-YYZ isn't for sale, so there should be no boost to domestic numbers from that flight.

Only those passengers disembarking in YVR will count as Asia-Pac and/or domestic/US (if they are connecting). And that number should be minimal, as the flight times aren't optimal.

AC now open AC43 DEL-YVR for reservation, but not AC1043

So for some odd reason, if you trying to fly DEL-YYZ, AC will try to route you through AC45, or if the flight not available, AC43 then connect to another early morning flight to YYZ, rather than putting you on AC1043...

Maybe if the airspace closure last long enough, AC45 will become the flight people take when they want to go YYZ, while AC43 will become mainly for YVR? :cool:

Johnny Aussie
Apr 1, 2019, 9:46 PM
Sure he's flying out of YVR? SQ has a direct flight from SEA now.

SQ isn’t starting until September.

Speaking of SEA I just looked at their pax stats for Jan and Feb.
They have gotten off to a very slow start for intl. Jan was up only 0.4% (up 1,600 pax) and Feb down 1.4% (down 5,200 pax).
YVR was up 4.5% and over 46,000 intl pax in January.

SEA also has KIX on DL starting and JL and CX have just started in addition to SQ in September.

So yeah, as predicted, SEA will definitely catch and overtake YVR this year in intl pax stats! :haha::haha: Those additional 8 million pax needed to overtake YVR will arrive in SEA before the end of this year for sure!

LeftCoaster
Apr 2, 2019, 9:42 PM
Wow that is some poor uptake of new capacity. I wonder how long some of these new flights will last. I want SEA to succeed for the good of the region but I also want SQ to regret their decision to go there over YVR.

Will be interesting to see how YVR fares in Feb once we get those numbers... which will be in like June the way YVR has been releasing stats these days.

LeftCoaster
Apr 2, 2019, 11:27 PM
Having recently flown out of Abbotsford on a flight to Mexico and Luton to Spain I got to thinking about the simplicity of LCC carrier terminals. Abbotsford has seen incredible growth the last few years in ULCC and LCC carriers and most of the growth has likely come at the expense of YVR. I wonder if YVR would ever entertain a LCC carrier terminal, a smaller Luton or Stanstead, to compliment their main terminal and stop airports like YXX leaching their passengers.

The terminal and operation would not need to be difficult, a simple warehouse like terminal similar to Luton (https://c8.alamy.com/comp/EGN0FC/luton-airport-checkin-check-in-desks-empty-queues-EGN0FC.jpg) could be built cheaply and quickly, and a thin tarmac with walk on boarding like at Abbotsford. No pre-clearing to the US is needed and a simple customs/immigration station in arrivals could keep costs down. Shuttle service from Templeton station and the main terminals could help keep things connected at a low cost.

There is plenty of land flanking the airport, you likely wouldn't need more than a 300m x 500m area for a sizable operation. YXX serves nearly a million passengers on a size of roughly 125m x 250m.

Is this something anyone thinks YVR would ever do? It could help chase a growth segment without ruffling too many feathers at the main terminal, especially if Rouge and Flair were given good rates at the LCC terminal.

mezzanine
Apr 3, 2019, 3:33 AM
Having recently flown out of Abbotsford on a flight to Mexico and Luton to Spain I got to thinking about the simplicity of LCC carrier terminals. Abbotsford has seen incredible growth the last few years in ULCC and LCC carriers and most of the growth has likely come at the expense of YVR. I wonder if YVR would ever entertain a LCC carrier terminal, a smaller Luton or Stanstead, to compliment their main terminal and stop airports like YXX leaching their passengers.

The terminal and operation would not need to be difficult, a simple warehouse like terminal similar to Luton (https://c8.alamy.com/comp/EGN0FC/luton-airport-checkin-check-in-desks-empty-queues-EGN0FC.jpg) could be built cheaply and quickly, and a thin tarmac with walk on boarding like at Abbotsford. No pre-clearing to the US is needed and a simple customs/immigration station in arrivals could keep costs down. Shuttle service from Templeton station and the main terminals could help keep things connected at a low cost.

There is plenty of land flanking the airport, you likely wouldn't need more than a 300m x 500m area for a sizable operation. YXX serves nearly a million passengers on a size of roughly 125m x 250m.

Is this something anyone thinks YVR would ever do? It could help chase a growth segment without ruffling too many feathers at the main terminal, especially if Rouge and Flair were given good rates at the LCC terminal.

If YVR ever needs to build the remote satellite terminal and its a PITA to use, IMO it will become the defacto LCC budget terminal.

Otherwise i don't think YVR needs to focus on building a LCC terminal now and YXX plays that role well. TBH with earthquake risk and probable sea level rise, I like having a robust second terminal in the lower mainland.

thenoflyzone
Apr 3, 2019, 11:06 AM
Wow that is some poor uptake of new capacity. I wonder how long some of these new flights will last. I want SEA to succeed for the good of the region but I also want SQ to regret their decision to go there over YVR.

Will be interesting to see how YVR fares in Feb once we get those numbers... which will be in like June the way YVR has been releasing stats these days.

What uptake?

JL started March 31. CX started April 1. SQ hasn't even started yet and DL SEA-KIX resumed April 1.

That doofus is talking as if Jan and Feb 2019 had any meaningful service adds over the same months in 2018. They didn't. Usual hot air.....

BTW, Feb numbers are up.

Johnny Aussie
Apr 3, 2019, 4:53 PM
Feb stats have been released by YVR.

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2019/02-february/february-2019-traffic-update.pdf?la=en

Definitely a slower month as well. All sectors up though.

Overall up 2.5% to 1,875,049
Domestic up 2.1% to 880,457
International up 2.8% to 994,952

International breakdown
Transborder up 2.8%
Asia Pacific up 3.8%
Europe up 1.0%
Misc intl up 0.8%

YTD overall up 3.5% to 3.9Million
YTD Domestic up 3.3% to 1.822 million
YTD Intl up 3.7% to 2.08 million

YTD intl has already added about 75,000 more pax.

Decent numbers but definitely slower.

Math lesson.... teacher to class: airport B Adds 4 long haul international flights in a year. How many annual seats will this add to an airport’s passenger numbers?

Johnny puts his hands up and says: well... assuming each flight is daily (in reality this may not be the case), each flight operates all year-round (may not be the case), and each flight has 280 seats (a bit too high).... 817,600? :haha::haha:

Well done Johnny! :haha::haha:

“So yeah, as predicted, SEA will definitely catch and overtake YVR this year in intl pax stats! :haha::haha: Those additional 8 million pax needed to overtake YVR will arrive in SEA before the end of this year for sure!”

trofirhen
Apr 3, 2019, 7:24 PM
Wow that is some poor uptake of new capacity. I wonder how long some of these new flights will last. I want SEA to succeed for the good of the region but I also want SQ to regret their decision to go there over YVR.

Yes, yes, and yes. Wouldn't it be great if SQ found that their yields on the Seattle run weren't as high as expected, so they switched to YVR? A long shot, but it makes me drool. :drooling::whistle:

Vin
Apr 3, 2019, 7:59 PM
Does SQ fly their A380 over to Seatac? I remember they used to fly their "Big Tops" 747 here to YVR.

Vin
Apr 3, 2019, 8:01 PM
Having recently flown out of Abbotsford on a flight to Mexico and Luton to Spain I got to thinking about the simplicity of LCC carrier terminals. Abbotsford has seen incredible growth the last few years in ULCC and LCC carriers and most of the growth has likely come at the expense of YVR. I wonder if YVR would ever entertain a LCC carrier terminal, a smaller Luton or Stanstead, to compliment their main terminal and stop airports like YXX leaching their passengers.

The terminal and operation would not need to be difficult, a simple warehouse like terminal similar to Luton (https://c8.alamy.com/comp/EGN0FC/luton-airport-checkin-check-in-desks-empty-queues-EGN0FC.jpg) could be built cheaply and quickly, and a thin tarmac with walk on boarding like at Abbotsford. No pre-clearing to the US is needed and a simple customs/immigration station in arrivals could keep costs down. Shuttle service from Templeton station and the main terminals could help keep things connected at a low cost.

There is plenty of land flanking the airport, you likely wouldn't need more than a 300m x 500m area for a sizable operation. YXX serves nearly a million passengers on a size of roughly 125m x 250m.

Is this something anyone thinks YVR would ever do? It could help chase a growth segment without ruffling too many feathers at the main terminal, especially if Rouge and Flair were given good rates at the LCC terminal.

The South Terminal could be expanded to include a low cost terminal for the budget airlines. The area is under-utilized at the moment. In other parts of the world, many cities have "low cost terminals" that have all the regular terminal facilities, including aero-bridges, etc.

YVR's South Terminal:
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.1828083,-123.1721405,1463m/data=!3m1!1e3

Rogie
Apr 3, 2019, 8:40 PM
The South Terminal could be expanded to include a low cost terminal for the budget airlines. The area is under-utilized at the moment. In other parts of the world, many cities have "low cost terminals" that have all the regular terminal facilities, including aero-bridges, etc.

YVR's South Terminal:
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.1828083,-123.1721405,1463m/data=!3m1!1e3

True there is room, and that would be a decent solution, I think if YVR were to do anything for budget airlines, it would involve busing out of the main terminal.

They have discovered the "magic" of remote stand operations (i.e. busing from the terminal to the plane), and are indicating they're here to stay. Of 18 new gates being built and put into operation right now (including the D-pier expansion), 14 are for RSO.

thenoflyzone
Apr 3, 2019, 9:54 PM
Math lesson.... teacher to class: airport B Adds 4 long haul international flights in a year. How many annual seats will this add to an airport’s passenger numbers?

Johnny puts his hands up and says: well... assuming each flight is daily (in reality this may not be the case), each flight operates all year-round (may not be the case), and each flight has 280 seats (a bit too high).... 817,600? :haha::haha:

Well done Johnny! :haha::haha:

“So yeah, as predicted, SEA will definitely catch and overtake YVR this year in intl pax stats! :haha::haha: Those additional 8 million pax needed to overtake YVR will arrive in SEA before the end of this year for sure!”

What are you babbling on about? No one said that SEA will catch and overtake YVR in 2019. You need to find your medication and use it.....

Hourglass
Apr 3, 2019, 10:56 PM
What are you babbling on about? No one said that SEA will catch and overtake YVR in 2019. You need to find your medication and use it.....

Haha you need to turn on your irony detector...

True there is room, and that would be a decent solution, I think if YVR were to do anything for budget airlines, it would involve busing out of the main terminal.

They have discovered the "magic" of remote stand operations (i.e. busing from the terminal to the plane), and are indicating they're here to stay. Of 18 new gates being built and put into operation right now (including the D-pier expansion), 14 are for RSO.

I actually think a budget terminal the way you describe it is not a great passenger experience. Singapore had a budget terminal and demolished it only a few years later to make way for Terminal 4 (which btw is a crazy cool testbed for new tech). Kuala Lumpur tore down its budget terminal to build KLIA2 (which is horrible). And Luton in London is extremely unpleasant in terms of passenger experience.

nname
Apr 3, 2019, 11:20 PM
They have discovered the "magic" of remote stand operations (i.e. busing from the terminal to the plane), and are indicating they're here to stay. Of 18 new gates being built and put into operation right now (including the D-pier expansion), 14 are for RSO.

I feel like they already have something planned a while ago.

When they renumber the gate, I always wondered why they jump from gate 54, 55 straight to 58. And now they magically find some space below the departure level to build the remote gates, and the gate numbers just happened to perfectly fit in the existing numbering scheme.

Maybe 56, 57 already count as two of the 4 remote gates... and the other two might be 68, 69. The bridge gates would be 59, 60, 61, 62, and/or 63.

(Note: the plan is to have 10 parking positions accessible by 4 dedicated gates for RSO)

Rogie
Apr 3, 2019, 11:37 PM
I feel like they already have something planned a while ago.

(Note: the plan is to have 10 parking positions accessible by 4 dedicated gates for RSO)

Yes, there are four RSO gates off D-pier, and another 10 being added off E-pier.

Rogie
Apr 3, 2019, 11:40 PM
Haha you need to turn on your irony detector...



I actually think a budget terminal the way you describe it is not a great passenger experience. Singapore had a budget terminal and demolished it only a few years later to make way for Terminal 4 (which btw is a crazy cool testbed for new tech). Kuala Lumpur tore down its budget terminal to build KLIA2 (which is horrible). And Luton in London is extremely unpleasant in terms of passenger experience.

I totally agree (especially having been disappointed by Luton myself), but they say passengers and airlines are reacting favourably to the setup.

Gotta go see SIN Terminal 4... and the whole airport for that matter.

nname
Apr 3, 2019, 11:46 PM
Yes, there are four RSO gates off D-pier, and another 10 being added off E-pier.

Where do you see that?

What I've seen is, they are moving the plane parking from the de-icing pads to the 10 parking locations in East Apron specifically built for the remote stand operation.

I don't see a plan to add RSO gate to the E-pier other than the existing E85 gate.

If anything, they would be added to the F-pier since it would be much closer to the parking area than the E-pier.

Gordon
Apr 4, 2019, 2:29 AM
Were they not re configuring the the jet Set Parking lot to create more room for RSO operations?

Rogie
Apr 4, 2019, 4:36 AM
Were they not re configuring the the jet Set Parking lot to create more room for RSO operations?

That's exactly it, where they're taking out McDonald Road.

https://goo.gl/maps/U9Rn5PFXDpp

mezzanine
Apr 4, 2019, 5:37 AM
I actually think a budget terminal the way you describe it is not a great passenger experience. Singapore had a budget terminal and demolished it only a few years later to make way for Terminal 4 (which btw is a crazy cool testbed for new tech). Kuala Lumpur tore down its budget terminal to build KLIA2 (which is horrible). And Luton in London is extremely unpleasant in terms of passenger experience.

It's different demographic and customer expectation with LCCs - IMO people who fly LCCs would have more flexibility for customer experience if the price is right, are transparent with fees and expectation and are efficient once you get to their terminal.

Building a separate LCC at YVR terminal costs a lot of money, but may be important if LCC become more ubiquitous. Otherwise 1 influential LCC may get an advantage by incorporating with regular YVR ops. I'm thinking of thai smile having an advantage at BKK, while all other LCCs are disadvantaged by being pushed to DMK, perhaps similar to AC Rouge if they expanded its presence at YVR. they aren't quite LCCs, but YVR has further options that way.

One of my favourite airlines is AirAsia - it's everywhere in SE asia and in some cases it is really the only way to get from point a to b. But fares are really inexpensive and they are very transparent with extra costs. They've never cancelled a flight or been massively delayed on me - I've never had a bad flight with them, but my expectations are low.

I don't find KLIA2 bad other than it is a hassle to get from KLIA1 (intl carriers) to KLIA2. In that way, SIN's terminal 4 makes a intl carrier to a LCC transfer a lot easier.

Hourglass
Apr 4, 2019, 8:52 AM
It's different demographic and customer expectation with LCCs - IMO people who fly LCCs would have more flexibility for customer experience if the price is right, are transparent with fees and expectation and are efficient once you get to their terminal.

Building a separate LCC at YVR terminal costs a lot of money, but may be important if LCC become more ubiquitous. Otherwise 1 influential LCC may get an advantage by incorporating with regular YVR ops. I'm thinking of thai smile having an advantage at BKK, while all other LCCs are disadvantaged by being pushed to DMK, perhaps similar to AC Rouge if they expanded its presence at YVR. they aren't quite LCCs, but YVR has further options that way.

One of my favourite airlines is AirAsia - it's everywhere in SE asia and in some cases it is really the only way to get from point a to b. But fares are really inexpensive and they are very transparent with extra costs. They've never cancelled a flight or been massively delayed on me - I've never had a bad flight with them, but my expectations are low.

I don't find KLIA2 bad other than it is a hassle to get from KLIA1 (intl carriers) to KLIA2. In that way, SIN's terminal 4 makes a intl carrier to a LCC transfer a lot easier.

Haha I think you’re definitely more forgiving than me in terms of airport experience.

KLIA2 is a massive terminal where you can end up walking miles to get to your gate yet somehow manages to feel really cramped. I’ve met some senior AirAsia people, and they are not happy with the facility at all. They’re actually quite public about it (https://www.thestar.com.my/business/business-news/2019/01/08/airasia-to-stop-charging-klia2-fee/).

For YVR, I’d say a blended terminal such as SIN T4 where automation saves much of the cost would be much preferable to Don Mueang, Luton or Stansted.