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Metro-One
Jan 7, 2010, 1:59 AM
So starting on March 28th Air Canada is going to have direct flights from Calgary to Tokyo.

While this is good for Calgary, why can they have a direct flight to Tokyo when Vancouver no longer has a direct flight to Osaka (a route I miss very much, because I used it at least twice a year).

It seems that Toronto's strangle hold over European and other such destinations will not allow Vancouver to open up to such areas, but Vancouver is not given the same strangle hold over Asian/Pacific destinations.

I hate Canadian air travel politics.

What I am wondering though, is this a seasonal ticket that happens every year or is this a new thing?

Yume-sama
Jan 7, 2010, 4:05 AM
It's not so much a new direct flight, as it is making an existing Toronto flight make a stop in Calgary on the way, 3x per week.

twoNeurons
Jan 7, 2010, 5:00 AM
It's not so much a new direct flight, as it is making an existing Toronto flight make a stop in Calgary on the way, 3x per week.

Which is similar to the flight #1/2 Toronto - Narita... via Vancouver.

trofirhen
Jan 9, 2010, 9:58 PM
This may or may not provide though-provoking reading for some of you.
Some may agree with the principle, others not. It would be interesting to see one or two opinions posted.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2010/01/07/don-martin-ottawa-defends-canada-s-protectionist-skies.aspx

usog
Jan 11, 2010, 3:11 AM
So JAL is finally about to asplode, I wonder if they'll keep NRT-YVR or let ANA or otherwise have it.

trofirhen
Jan 11, 2010, 7:10 AM
Someone will get it. It may not be that important who it is just now.

Yume-sama
Jan 11, 2010, 7:26 AM
It won't be ANA. So, if JAL does go (though the government has just given it a boat load of money, and it is supposed to be sold off to AA or Delta), just expect to see Air Canada double their price :P

twoNeurons
Jan 11, 2010, 5:11 PM
It won't be ANA. So, if JAL does go (though the government has just given it a boat load of money, and it is supposed to be sold off to AA or Delta), just expect to see Air Canada double their price :P

Agreed. ANA and AC are both in the Star Alliance. The only way we'll see ANA in Vancouver is if they ever decide to fly on their own metal from Osaka (ANA is headquartered in Osaka). I don't hold much hope for AC to reinstate its YVR-KIX service for a while. They may wait until they have 787s.

It could be a route that ANA would like, however.

if AC raises its prices, it will make flying from SEA all the more attractive.

Yume-sama
Jan 11, 2010, 5:56 PM
Yeah, but with the thought of even going to America being so nauseating, I'm sure the majority of people wouldn't.

Waders
Jan 12, 2010, 7:11 AM
Yeah, but with the thought of even going to America being so nauseating, I'm sure the majority of people wouldn't.

Even flying to Canada from other countries is now getting more screening because of new potential threat. :( Source: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20100111/airport_security_100111/20100111?hub=TopStoriesV2

Yume-sama
Jan 15, 2010, 3:12 AM
Just weeks after decreasing its weekly service from Vancouver - Mexico City to 5, from 7, JAL has announced that starting next week... it will once again be daily service.

The frequency of existing code share one-way flights from Tokyo (Narita) to Vancouver operated by JAL, and from Vancouver to Mexico City operated by MX, will also increase from 5 to 7 flights a week starting January 18, 2010
http://press.jal.co.jp/en/release/201001/001421.html

Rusty Gull
Jan 15, 2010, 5:07 AM
JAL is not going under. It may become the world's first "zombie airline", but it will not go under.

GeeCee
Jan 15, 2010, 5:14 AM
Air Canada acts pretty zombie-like at times..

trofirhen
Jan 15, 2010, 5:34 AM
Air Canada?? Zombie like?! That's for sure! It's needs artificial blood to keep it alive. Please refer to the link, and you'll get a taste of what I mean.
:slob:
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2010/01/07/don-martin-ottawa-defends-canada-s-protectionist-skies.aspx

Yume-sama
Jan 15, 2010, 5:41 AM
It would be funny if Emirates took their A380 to Buffalo, instead of Toronto. However, now that they HAVE threatened Toronto, I bet the government does something to give them what they want :P

It would be upsetting to see them going to Seattle instead of Vancouver, as the article hinted.

Hot Rod
Jan 16, 2010, 7:35 PM
A380 can't land in Seattle. Good news for YVR!

Yume-sama
Jan 16, 2010, 7:36 PM
So they'll send a 777ER instead :P?

Hot Rod
Jan 16, 2010, 7:38 PM
Y?

I don't see Seattle as big of an international pull.

Yume-sama
Jan 16, 2010, 7:40 PM
Well, I don't particularly think ridership from Calgary and Vancouver would be extraordinarily high, either. But for some reason they want in.

Most certainly not enough for an A380, anyways.

MalcolmTucker
Jan 16, 2010, 7:47 PM
Well, I don't particularly think ridership from Calgary and Vancouver would be extraordinarily high, either. But for some reason they want in.

Most certainly not enough for an A380, anyways.

India.

As for A380 they have said one reason they use the A380 on the Toronto route is the low frequencies allowed.

Yume-sama
Jan 16, 2010, 7:51 PM
Well, that is true. It would be invaluable for Vancouver to have a connection to India and other Countries in the region.

trofirhen
Jan 16, 2010, 11:42 PM
Checking the Wikipedia entry for YVR (which is frequently updated) there used to be an announcement that two Indian airlines, Air India (naturally) and Jet Airways, were going to fly directly from Vancouver -straight over the North Pole - to Delhi and one other city, I forget which.

Jet Airways was going to do the Vancouver-India run, then continue on to Brussels, where it has a hub. This would have been an enhancement for the city, but now it all seems cancelled. Too bad, because Vancouver has the East Indian population to support such a route.

And for people who shrug off Seattle, I would suggest being more circumspect. That city is ramping up its overseas destination possibilities, and being so close to Vancouver, does pose direct competition.

They got Paris year-round, now they're wooing Emirates and SQL, and are talking about flights to Brisbane, the northerly jumping off point to Australia's major cities. We have competition on our hands, IMHO, and should be aware of such.

trofirhen
Jan 16, 2010, 11:46 PM
Y?

I don't see Seattle as big of an international pull.

Hot Rod, you've told me how much you admire Vancouver, and I really appreciate that. However, I think that Seattle is a "pull" mostly because of its strong and versatile economic base; Microsoft to name but one.

It may not have the pretty "tourist appeal" that Vancouver has, but it's one million people bigger, an important business centre, and has a LOT of money -far more than we.

SpongeG
Jan 17, 2010, 12:33 AM
richemst man in the world lives in seattle or one of them anyway not too mention the other bazillionaires there

trofirhen
Jan 17, 2010, 5:33 AM
richemst man in the world lives in seattle or one of them anyway not too mention the other bazillionaires there

precisely

vansky
Jan 17, 2010, 8:05 AM
is anyone still interested in the airport's architectural side or future expansion, what is the plan for the so called 10 or so gates expansion on the east end of the building? is that a dream or a scheduled plan?

vansky
Jan 17, 2010, 8:09 AM
precisely

van's all about image, which is unparallel in this country(aside from the two cities in the east), look at all the nice cars, everyone's rich...

Yume-sama
Jan 17, 2010, 8:10 AM
van's all about image, which is unparallel in this country(aside from the two cities in the east), look at all the nice cars, everyone's rich...

Except the huge majority of people who don't drive a nice car :(

SpongeG
Jan 17, 2010, 8:24 AM
i heard vancouver is a big centre for wealth management

Yume-sama
Jan 17, 2010, 8:26 AM
i heard vancouver is a big centre for wealth management

There are a lot of private banking firms in Vancouver. And they throw great parties for their clients :P

red-paladin
Jan 17, 2010, 8:53 AM
The Oneworld airline alliance has their HQ in the marine building I believe.

vansky
Jan 17, 2010, 9:16 AM
ya i know a friend who wash dishes, and drives a mercedez...i asked him why he would buy such an expensive car, he told me it's so dat he can feel like a better human being....then i asked him what do u think about transit, he said losers...then i asked him i take transit, do u consider me a loser, he said i think you are joking....

i am not joking...

i am a loser...

i have a friend who is 50 and carries lv and whatever else arond alt he time, i asked her why...she said these make me feel i'm worth it...

i told her you worth less than the lv and watever...

she said i was unblievable....

yes, believe it

trofirhen
Jan 17, 2010, 10:01 AM
is anyone still interested in the airport's architectural side or future expansion, what is the plan for the so called 10 or so gates expansion on the east end of the building? is that a dream or a scheduled plan?

Talking to a contact in the marketing department of YVR, he told me that there were plans to expand Pier A for Westjet, and a still-secret plan for Pier B. Apparently Pier B will sort of be demolished (which is why they did nothing to it when they revamped the airport)

What will replace it is under debate, and cannot be revealed to the public, but I'm guessing a thing along the lines of Pier C, probably not quite as big.

trofirhen
Jan 17, 2010, 10:05 AM
The Oneworld airline alliance has their HQ in the marine building I believe.

Their HQ? I could believe an office, but their GLOBAL HQ ???

It's possible (anything is; Air Canada may be a 5-star airline one day) ........ but I'd double check that, if I may suggest it.

(wouldn't it be great if it were true)? :koko: :rolleyes: :shrug:

Locked In
Jan 17, 2010, 10:09 AM
The oneworld Management Company has its headoffice in beautiful Vancouver, Canada, ideally located to support its member airlines across the world. A small team covers positions in the areas Commercial, Airports and Customer Experience, Membership and IT/E-Commerce. Vancouver staff is usually on local contracts. Additionally, some commercial positions exist in the market and on secondment basis.

Source: Oneworld Alliance (http://www.oneworld.com/ow/news-and-information/employment-opportunities)

trofirhen
Jan 17, 2010, 10:44 AM
:previous: :previous: :previous: :previous: :previous: :previous: :previous: :previous:
well dog-gone ! ! ! !

GeeCee
Jan 17, 2010, 2:59 PM
yes, believe it

Living outside your means and surrounding yourself with name brand stuff may make you seem 'cool' to your friends, but morally and financially bankrupt. I tihnk you need to find better friends.. ;)

Yume-sama
Jan 17, 2010, 6:58 PM
Living outside your means and surrounding yourself with name brand stuff may make you seem 'cool' to your friends, but morally and financially bankrupt. I tihnk you need to find better friends.. ;)

Morally, I'm not so sure. Is Louis Vuitton killing albino kids in Africa or something?

vansky
Jan 17, 2010, 10:35 PM
that being discussed, how's the idea to have these international brand stores being expanded all over downtown vancouver...if you have 4-5 stars hotels, you would likely need 4-5 stars shopping experience...since these appeal massively to tourists

currently the city isn't seen as a "shopping" destination

teriyaki
Jan 17, 2010, 11:07 PM
that being discussed, how's the idea to have these international brand stores being expanded all over downtown vancouver...if you have 4-5 stars hotels, you would likely need 4-5 stars shopping experience...since these appeal massively to tourists

currently the city isn't seen as a "shopping" destination

We do need more of a downtown upscale presence. Alberni and Burrard has some stores, but they do not resemble any of the shopping districts that are famous around the world, not by far.

vansky
Jan 17, 2010, 11:28 PM
it's all about the culture, vancouver never developed a sense of fashion, but at the same time, who would wear high fashion in their cars, or going to a grocery store in the suburbs...it's all about street life, and urban atomosphere

trofirhen
Jan 18, 2010, 12:57 AM
Chic shopping districts known around the world are found in "world class" cities, and one of the elements of a "world class" city, despite how much slick architecture or fancy features you pour into it is, as someone somewhere on this site pointed out: history.

World class cities are usally fairly big (a little bigger than Vancouver is now, and on up) and they've been around long enough to become mature, seasoned cities with a sense of history and importance, despite what ever that's modern and sleek they may have.

Vancouver is just emerging from being a "metropolis in the woods." It has a history as a seaport and mill town, and not too much else, other than the people eand events known only to Vancouverites.

And although a lot of people have moved here with money in their pockets, it does not have a corporate base or an economy of scale, like Montreal, Toronto, or Seattle.

Vancouver as we all know is a lovely city with many innovative features, and a lot of green space, which is great.

But to quote a Peruvian proverb: "You can dress a monkey in satin, but the monkey remains nevertheless a monkey."

mr.x
Jan 18, 2010, 5:46 AM
Rick checks out the inner workings at YVR as they prepare to welcome the world.
GUnxLPNRXS8

vansky
Jan 18, 2010, 5:52 AM
Chic shopping districts known around the world are found in "world class" cities, and one of the elements of a "world class" city, despite how much slick architecture or fancy features you pour into it is, as someone somewhere on this site pointed out: history.

World class cities are usally fairly big (a little bigger than Vancouver is now, and on up) and they've been around long enough to become mature, seasoned cities with a sense of history and importance, despite what ever that's modern and sleek they may have.

Vancouver is just emerging from being a "metropolis in the woods." It has a history as a seaport and mill town, and not too much else, other than the people eand events known only to Vancouverites.

And although a lot of people have moved here with money in their pockets, it does not have a corporate base or an economy of scale, like Montreal, Toronto, or Seattle.

Vancouver as we all know is a lovely city with many innovative features, and a lot of green space, which is great.

But to quote a Peruvian proverb: "You can dress a monkey in satin, but the monkey remains nevertheless a monkey."

i think it's still in the woods.

Waders
Jan 18, 2010, 6:58 AM
Rick checks out the inner workings at YVR as they prepare to welcome the world.
GUnxLPNRXS8

lol. That video is fun to watch.:haha:

SpongeG
Jan 18, 2010, 11:05 AM
if you can afford to live here your mortage is probably a huge chunk of your monthly expenses, and than by the time all your bills are paid who can afford a $1000 ralph lauren track suit?

I remember when living here was cheaper - there were a lot of brands that we have lost since the huge real estate price jump - it just goes to show that we aren't a city with a large disposable income to keep most shops afloat on our own - we do need tourism and visitors to keep the shops going and if you have the shopping money why would you choose to shop in vancouver over san francisco, london or new york? or toronto or la or etc etc

Zassk
Jan 18, 2010, 5:30 PM
If anything, I see more brand names nowadays... I think the wealth has more than kept pace...

SpongeG
Jan 18, 2010, 9:54 PM
we lost versus, istante, romeo gigli, polo ralph lauren, Sonia Rykiel, Valentino, Celine plus a few more - all those brands had stores here prior to 1995

trofirhen
Jan 19, 2010, 4:36 AM
we lost versus, istante, romeo gigli, polo ralph lauren, Sonia Rykiel, Valentino, Celine plus a few more - all those brands had stores here prior to 1995

Bet your bottom dollar you'll find at least some of them in Seattle

Rusty Gull
Jan 19, 2010, 6:30 AM
we lost versus, istante, romeo gigli, polo ralph lauren, Sonia Rykiel, Valentino, Celine plus a few more - all those brands had stores here prior to 1995

More importantly, we also lost Hooter's. :grrr:

Zassk
Jan 19, 2010, 7:10 AM
I thought you meant brand name merchandise, not stores. My bad.

Gordon
Jan 19, 2010, 5:27 PM
JAL has applied for bankruptcy protecttion. It looks like Delta & it's alliance partners are the front runners to takeover the airline. If Delta wins that may mean Seattle gets the Tokyo route instead of Vanvouver. Although the Tokyo Vancouver route is a profitable route.

Yume-sama
Jan 19, 2010, 6:32 PM
Delta Airlines (and United) already operates Seattle - Tokyo, and will start Seattle - Osaka soon, there would be no incentive for them to add an additional flight by a technically "competing" airline.

flight_from_kamakura
Jan 25, 2010, 11:28 PM
noticed a while back that alaska canceled direct service to sfo out of yvr. used to be 3x daily with 4x some days, but i guess it makes sense to them to route folks through cheaper portland and seatac connections (in terms of leases), it's a point of general knowledge that sfo and yvr fall on the expensive side of the equation.

but it's still hella annoying, and alaska has definitely lost my business once i use up my miles. when alaska dropped out, it got me onto the ac/united direct (to my own amazement, as air canada has been on my "no fly" list since they wiped out 50k miles in the 2009 rollover).

trofirhen
Jan 26, 2010, 1:40 AM
:previous: :previous:
Westjet may move in to take up the "slack" if there is any market space left. They're in Expansion mode. Also, does Delta no longer fly SFO -YVR nonstop?

I am familiar with the History of Delta buying Western (and of course that route) 20+ years ago (rode 'em both. *Family in SF and LA), and I thought they might have "tenure" .Apparently it went to largely Alaska, & now they're pulling back.

My question: does Delta still fly that route and if not, when did they pull out? I'd really like know the carrier history of that route, and LA and SAN D routes better, too.
Thanks :)

Hot Rod
Jan 29, 2010, 5:10 AM
tro, for your information - none of those stores are in Seattle (well, Lauren might be now), and if they were they'd be empty (except for you Canadians coming down, perhaps).

You all think Vancouver is a 'show' city, but Seattle is even more so - because you all think it is so big and glamourous. But in reality, it's not. Not anywhere close to New York, Chicago, LA, SF, Miami, Dallas; not in the same ballpark.

Most of the high end stores, Seattle JUST got in the last 2-4 years. In fact, we FINALLY have a true high end department store, Nieman Marcus, but it is in Bellevue and is ONLY due to Microsoft's desire to create an edge city market for recruiting purposes. I once worked at corporate Microsoft, so I am well aware of the expansion plans we had for Lincoln Square and the Bravern development (both downtown Bellevue). The Seattle space was through acquisitions.

And yes, Seattle does have a high-tech economy with several hq's. But Boeing is based in Chicago and has been scaling back since (and soon will probably pull out altogether). Microsoft is not the place it used to be and realize they hired WAY TOO MANY people to support an industry dominated by SF bay companies.

You all have mentioned that we have many rich people here, but so do you. And the 'rich' people here are actually stock rich. That wealth RARELY flows liquid into the "seattle economy" because we don't have state income tax to coax it out. And we're just now getting stores worthy of not going down to Portland (or up to Vancouver) to shop.

Trof - you seemed surprised that Oneworld's HQ is in Vancouver; I think you and many others would be very surprised how big Van actually is in the world stage. It is Canada's 3rd largest city and market, that alone places it a significant advantage against Seattle and the much more competitive US market. Vancouver is a world player and would be even moreso if your government would let the city achieve it's destiny as the Singapore/Hong Kong of North America - but instead, your government insists on having everything in Toronto - THAT holds Vancouver back, whether it's international flights to Europe or Asia (outside the rim), corporate hq locations, or media/fashion. Vancouver is much more dominent on international trade and this will become very evident once Boeing does shift all commercial production out. Did you all ever realize, that Microsoft almost moved it's world headquarters to Vancouver? :)

Those office towers many of you admire so much in downtown Seattle are 30% empty (I read recently in the Seattle times) as they've overbuilt due to speculation and EVERY bank that once was headquartered here are gone. So, if it weren't for high tech and internet innovation (and sheer will of Microsoft), Seattle would have long been a ghost town - look at how Seattle lost the Sonics for example. (govt and corporate Seattle couldnt' get it together, ending up losing to an up and coming darkhorse city in Oklahoma City whose corporate/govt entities are hell bent on showcasing their town and have the cash to do it).

I know Vancouver lost the Grizz to an even worse city of Memphis, but that was the NBA's fault almost exclusively in that they really needed to seed Vancouver and make the hockey town into a basketball city; whereas the Sonics leaving was the EXCLUSIVE fault of Washington/Seattle govt and corporate/wealth you all think so much of. Now, how could 'such a prominent city' with a longstanding NBA presence - lose it's NBA team? Since we are so rich, whatever whatever.

Seattle does have one advantage over Vancouver, and that is taxation (or the lack thereof). But it's starting to catch up with us, as our state government is $2.5billion shortfall THIS YEAR ALONE (city of Seattle and King County also have huge deficits, I just forget how much) and our infrastructure is crumbling as I type. The next few years will NOT be good times for Seattle, and I for one will be relocating to a much larger much more prominent city - that is Chicago.

But I wanted to make those points, that Seattle isn't quite as well off as you all think we are. We have some advantages but we also have severe penis envy over Vancouver too. There's some things you guys dont even realize you have or advantages you have moreso than just having a subway while we dont.

I think some people need to travel a bit more, and AWAY from Toronto or Seattle - to really sense the impact Vancouver has. You can get to a lot more places worldwide right in your own front yard than you can coming down here (and would have even more if your government would let Vancouver prosper naturally, like it naturally would). Seattle's rich people mostly fly corporate jets and RARELY fly international (and when they do, they go to an international gateway city such as Vancouver or LA or SF/Chicago/NY like everybody else).

Vancouver reminds me of that fine girl who has many things hidden away but doesn't show off much - she just surprises you and continues to amaze you with the things she continually wears day to day. People worldwide love this pretty girl and want to go to bed with her and her less pretty older cousin SF. Vancouver may be quite shallow and not have much personality but damn, she sure is charming and very beautiful - so I and many men worldwide want to buy her things and amaze in her beauty (and give her gifts that her peer cities envy).

I see Seattle as the not so pretty sister of Vancouver who has a better education and somewhat better job than Vancouver, but somehow still gets left out to while her spoiled sister 100 miles north gets all of the attention from the best guys.

Just for kicks, I see Toronto as that blowhard bully trying to look the part of big city but really can't compete with the big boys show up. He wouldn't have what he has if it wasn't for his fairy god mother Ottawa who thinks the world of him and therefore thinks Toronto should have everything. Ottawa doesn't need to worry about that pretty girl on the west coast, because she is so quiet - yet Toronto is always whining when guys prefer Vancouver, so Ottawa makes up for it.

a bit of humor at the end - but it really is my take on the aformentioned cities.

NetMapel
Jan 29, 2010, 5:18 AM
:previous: If that's not the biggest confidence booster to us Vancouverites, I don't know what is. I am totally blushing now :P

mr.x
Jan 29, 2010, 5:23 AM
tro, for your information - none of those stores are in Seattle (well, Lauren might be now), and if they were they'd be empty (except for you Canadians coming down, perhaps).

[...]

Wow. You made my day.:tup: :cheers:

That post needs to be printed and framed at the Vancouver Art Gallery and paired alongside with Emily Carr. It's absolutely beautiful.

nova9
Jan 29, 2010, 6:18 AM
hot_rod, your cheque's in the mail. haha.

vansky
Jan 29, 2010, 7:09 AM
ya, vancouver got everything, except height and economic power

it is just a town with a high profile of service sector, and some view...

with a lot of amentities for a population this small...

becoming hk or singapore, first the govenrment needs to give the city a free economy and more political freedom...sth like protecting toronto and air canada is garbage to vancouver...

Yume-sama
Jan 29, 2010, 7:11 AM
There is a reason why Vancouver is ranked so highly in every World study, no matter how silly.

Must be the charm of its residents, right? :D

RIGHT? :P

vansky
Jan 29, 2010, 7:15 AM
There is a reason why Vancouver is ranked so highly in every World study, no matter how silly.

Must be the charm of its residents, right? :D

RIGHT? :P

no, cuz the ranking got some bias...the voters, the judges all got some connections iwth the city...

there was a mastercard study, one of the guys was from ubc...how can he put down his town..

then u go check out some other ones, such as foreign policy and gawc, there's no scene of the city...if the city was for real, how can two big studies ignore it...

Yume-sama
Jan 29, 2010, 7:18 AM
I don't know, the rest of the population doesn't seem to have a problem doing that. ;)

vansky
Jan 29, 2010, 7:23 AM
by surprise, one japanese study of global cities ranked it considerably higher than the other ones...i read that one, and they put livability really high as one of the aspects...and the city obviously took advantage...

anyways, among residents of 2 million, this place is probably the most world class

red-paladin
Jan 29, 2010, 9:11 AM
I think it's true that our future looks good, but it might be bad times for Seattle economically.

cabotp
Jan 29, 2010, 9:34 AM
It always seems like the grass is greener on the other side. And in some cases it might be. But sometimes we don't realize how green our grass may actually be, as we are always looking to the other side and not our side.

No pun intended in that :haha:

WarrenC12
Jan 29, 2010, 2:21 PM
I don't think people here under appreciate Vancouver. One of the biggest problems is the giant ego of this city... which probably comes from so many of these "studies". :rolleyes:

trofirhen
Jan 29, 2010, 3:16 PM
I think it's true that our future looks good, but it might be bad times for Seattle economically.

How so? In which sectors, and for what reasons? :cool:

s211
Jan 29, 2010, 4:52 PM
Most of the high end stores, Seattle JUST got in the last 2-4 years. In fact, we FINALLY have a true high end department store, Nieman Marcus, but it is in Bellevue and is ONLY due to Microsoft's desire to create an edge city market for recruiting purposes.

WHAT.
THE.
HELL.
ARE.
YOU.
TALKING.
ABOUT.

Nieman Marcus has been in Bellevue and Downtown Seattle for DECADES.

And your conspiracy theory that NM is in Bellevue is because of Microsoft cracking the whip? Come on.

Hot Rod
Jan 29, 2010, 6:15 PM
s211, you're being facetious right? NM just opened in DT Bellevue only a few months ago right before Christmas iirc. ...

well, the rest of what I said it's true.

Your federal government (and to some extent, your local city NIMBY govt) is what is holding Vancouver back from it's true potential, regardless of what guage you want to use.

I think it is time for the people of vancouver to speak up and vote those idiots out who continue to stroke Toronto at the expense of Vancouver.

Even still, Vancouver is quite a wonderful city that competes very well with cities many times bigger in "govt stated metro population"

(why do they ax off the Valley and lower Van Is from Vancouver's metro? In America, metro Vancouver would be over 3.0M and have all of those areas - for USA metro reference, see none other than the Seattle/Tacoma/Bremerton/Everett/Olympia Combined Statistical Area, aka metro Seattle 'by the media').

red-paladin
Jan 29, 2010, 6:22 PM
How so? In which sectors, and for what reasons? :cool:

I think Hot Rod nailed most of the issues.

Also, from friends that live there, it seems like it is much harder to get a new job compared to here. Also, from what I understand, the housing sector was hit a lot harder. I could be wrong though. As for the future, I think we all agree that if Microsoft ever did go into decline, or even cease to grow like it used to, that it would affect the local economy significantly. Vancouver doesn't have too many companies that we NEED to succeed for the city to succeed.

Again, sorry if I'm exaggerating.

Hot Rod
Jan 29, 2010, 6:24 PM
Im not saying the city doesn't have an ego, but I think some of it is deserved considering what Vancouver has to put up with - yet the city still thrives and is envy'd by many.

And YES - red, it is definitely not an employment utopia here, and never was unless you had CS skills. Remember, the wealth of the Eastside is tied to stock from Microsoft, Costco, and several other "seattle area hq'd" tech companies. it's not the same as wealth that Chicago and New York or SF have. ... And definitely we are getting hit hard by the recession, mostly because our market was heavily inflated and burst. But it is also because the state does not get its fair share of the 'supposed wealth' and will not until they implement state income tax (at least for earners above a certain income level.....)

Nevertheless, it is great to have two wonderful cities only 100 miles apart. ^^

OK - sorry everyone for changing the thread away from YVR discussions: :)

nova9
Jan 29, 2010, 7:03 PM
ya, vancouver got everything, except height and economic power

it is just a town with a high profile of service sector, and some view...

with a lot of amentities for a population this small...

becoming hk or singapore, first the govenrment needs to give the city a free economy and more political freedom...sth like protecting toronto and air canada is garbage to vancouver...

political freedom? in Hong Kong or Singapore? you kidding me? hahaha.

vansky
Jan 29, 2010, 8:08 PM
political freedom? in Hong Kong or Singapore? you kidding me? hahaha.

hk is self governed, and singapore is its own country.

nova9
Jan 29, 2010, 9:34 PM
hk is self governed, and singapore is its own country.

I'm from HK, not really self-governed, we (well, people there) only get to elect 50% of the legislature, the other half is appointed by the Chinese government. And as for Singapore, the people tolerate a very involved level of government - how else could you end up with those strict littering and drug/alcohol laws?

My point is, without starting any political debate, is that I don't think it's the PERSONAL FREEDOM that allowed HK and Singapore to become what they are. I think it was the economic policies and it had to do with allowing the people whose responsibility it was to do their job with little interference.

Plus, both are/were city states that did only had to focus onto one viewpoint or goal rather than having to kowtow to say Toronto or take other cities into consideration.

red-paladin
Jan 29, 2010, 11:14 PM
As a polisci major (and yes I work in tech support :( ) I can tell you that Singapore appears to be a democracy but is classified as an authoritarian state that has demonstrably manipulated electoral results to keep the governing party in power. However, it was said that it was the only authoritarian state in the entire world that had 'legitimate' government as it has almost no corruption as is run a meritocracy. Basically the entire state is run like it's a company. Anyway the point is it is not a liberal democracy with 'freedoms' in the Canadian sense. It's more like living in your parents house when you are 14. It might be just and benevolent but you might get kicked in the ass for stepping out of line.

Not that this has anything to do with the airport.

NewfBC
Jan 30, 2010, 12:10 AM
WHAT.
THE.
HELL.
ARE.
YOU.
TALKING.
ABOUT.

Nieman Marcus has been in Bellevue and Downtown Seattle for DECADES.

And your conspiracy theory that NM is in Bellevue is because of Microsoft cracking the whip? Come on.

Um are you thinking about Nordstrom?

Nieman Marcus only has one location in WA state, in Bellevue.

Ron.

Yume-sama
Jan 30, 2010, 12:11 AM
Why are we so upset about Nieman Marcus (in SEATTLE) in the YVR Airport thread? Bit of an over reaction, s211 :haha:

seaJ
Jan 30, 2010, 4:32 AM
tro, for your information - none of those stores are in Seattle (well, Lauren might be now), and if they were they'd be empty (except for you Canadians coming down, perhaps).

You all think Vancouver is a 'show' city, but Seattle is even more so - because you all think it is so big and glamourous. But in reality, it's not. Not anywhere close to New York, Chicago, LA, SF, Miami, Dallas; not in the same ballpark.

Most of the high end stores, Seattle JUST got in the last 2-4 years. In fact, we FINALLY have a true high end department store, Nieman Marcus, but it is in Bellevue and is ONLY due to Microsoft's desire to create an edge city market for recruiting purposes. I once worked at corporate Microsoft, so I am well aware of the expansion plans we had for Lincoln Square and the Bravern development (both downtown Bellevue). The Seattle space was through acquisitions.

And yes, Seattle does have a high-tech economy with several hq's. But Boeing is based in Chicago and has been scaling back since (and soon will probably pull out altogether). Microsoft is not the place it used to be and realize they hired WAY TOO MANY people to support an industry dominated by SF bay companies.

You all have mentioned that we have many rich people here, but so do you. And the 'rich' people here are actually stock rich. That wealth RARELY flows liquid into the "seattle economy" because we don't have state income tax to coax it out. And we're just now getting stores worthy of not going down to Portland (or up to Vancouver) to shop.

Trof - you seemed surprised that Oneworld's HQ is in Vancouver; I think you and many others would be very surprised how big Van actually is in the world stage. It is Canada's 3rd largest city and market, that alone places it a significant advantage against Seattle and the much more competitive US market. Vancouver is a world player and would be even moreso if your government would let the city achieve it's destiny as the Singapore/Hong Kong of North America - but instead, your government insists on having everything in Toronto - THAT holds Vancouver back, whether it's international flights to Europe or Asia (outside the rim), corporate hq locations, or media/fashion. Vancouver is much more dominent on international trade and this will become very evident once Boeing does shift all commercial production out. Did you all ever realize, that Microsoft almost moved it's world headquarters to Vancouver? :)

Those office towers many of you admire so much in downtown Seattle are 30% empty (I read recently in the Seattle times) as they've overbuilt due to speculation and EVERY bank that once was headquartered here are gone. So, if it weren't for high tech and internet innovation (and sheer will of Microsoft), Seattle would have long been a ghost town - look at how Seattle lost the Sonics for example. (govt and corporate Seattle couldnt' get it together, ending up losing to an up and coming darkhorse city in Oklahoma City whose corporate/govt entities are hell bent on showcasing their town and have the cash to do it).

I know Vancouver lost the Grizz to an even worse city of Memphis, but that was the NBA's fault almost exclusively in that they really needed to seed Vancouver and make the hockey town into a basketball city; whereas the Sonics leaving was the EXCLUSIVE fault of Washington/Seattle govt and corporate/wealth you all think so much of. Now, how could 'such a prominent city' with a longstanding NBA presence - lose it's NBA team? Since we are so rich, whatever whatever.

Seattle does have one advantage over Vancouver, and that is taxation (or the lack thereof). But it's starting to catch up with us, as our state government is $2.5billion shortfall THIS YEAR ALONE (city of Seattle and King County also have huge deficits, I just forget how much) and our infrastructure is crumbling as I type. The next few years will NOT be good times for Seattle, and I for one will be relocating to a much larger much more prominent city - that is Chicago.

But I wanted to make those points, that Seattle isn't quite as well off as you all think we are. We have some advantages but we also have severe penis envy over Vancouver too. There's some things you guys dont even realize you have or advantages you have moreso than just having a subway while we dont.

I think some people need to travel a bit more, and AWAY from Toronto or Seattle - to really sense the impact Vancouver has. You can get to a lot more places worldwide right in your own front yard than you can coming down here (and would have even more if your government would let Vancouver prosper naturally, like it naturally would). Seattle's rich people mostly fly corporate jets and RARELY fly international (and when they do, they go to an international gateway city such as Vancouver or LA or SF/Chicago/NY like everybody else).

Vancouver reminds me of that fine girl who has many things hidden away but doesn't show off much - she just surprises you and continues to amaze you with the things she continually wears day to day. People worldwide love this pretty girl and want to go to bed with her and her less pretty older cousin SF. Vancouver may be quite shallow and not have much personality but damn, she sure is charming and very beautiful - so I and many men worldwide want to buy her things and amaze in her beauty (and give her gifts that her peer cities envy).

I see Seattle as the not so pretty sister of Vancouver who has a better education and somewhat better job than Vancouver, but somehow still gets left out to while her spoiled sister 100 miles north gets all of the attention from the best guys.

Just for kicks, I see Toronto as that blowhard bully trying to look the part of big city but really can't compete with the big boys show up. He wouldn't have what he has if it wasn't for his fairy god mother Ottawa who thinks the world of him and therefore thinks Toronto should have everything. Ottawa doesn't need to worry about that pretty girl on the west coast, because she is so quiet - yet Toronto is always whining when guys prefer Vancouver, so Ottawa makes up for it.

a bit of humor at the end - but it really is my take on the aformentioned cities.
Hot Rod, you seem to have a hard on for Vancouver that doesn't allow you to see things very subjectively. No one, let me repeat, no one in Seattle thinks they are anywhere near the importance of a city like New York or Los Angeles. You seem to think it's Seattleites who have a larger image of their city on the world stage than Vancouver does which I simply find not true at all. Vancouver IMO is the city reaching for glamour and attention through marketing and big showy splashes WAY more than Seattle. You have to think about how each city views itself with respect to it's country. Seattle does not think of itself as some warm paradise with palm trees, movie stars and high end shopping. In fact, it's thought of as a cold, grey and far away place with respect to the rest of the U.S.--I'm endeared by that and think that's what makes Seattle a great place. It is truly a city supplanted in the northwest and derives it character from what makes the PNW different than the rest of the world.
Vancouver is the ONLY large city on Canada's west coast and it's third largest city at that. Seattle has to compete for the resources (both human and monetary) with Portland, San Francisco, L.A. and San Diego. Even with those other cities to compete with Seattle had the ingenuity to forge an economy AND might I add an arts scene that is the envy of cities even larger. This includes Vancouver. You seem to give short shrift to what it takes for a city to give rise to ideas and innovation which allows for large companies to become what they are in the first place, and then from there move on to change the world. Now, Microsoft may not be as relevent as it once was and Boeing not as powerful, but the community of Seattle that could foster such innovation is not a thing of the past.
No one ever mentions (trofirhen exluded) about the defecit of culture between the two cities. Vancouver has built a great city with respect to infrastructure, parks, public trans on its downtown peninsula and it deserves accolades for that. But cities are more than just a collection of buildings and good urban planning decisions. It's the arts community that animates and gives a voice to the talents of it's citizens. Seattle is a powerhouse for a city its size with respect to the arts. While not a home to a major world renowned museum, Seattle has a great opera, symphony, and ballet. A huge and well respected theater scene, a music scene that has been strong since way before grunge and continues to be relevent. I could go on.
I actually think Seattle is in a better position than Vancouver. Seattle can build and become more dense. It can try to correct it's bad planning decisions in the future and I think it's headed in the right direction. The question is- Can Vancouver build a strong vibrant economy from homegrown innovation? Can Vancouver foster an arts community that truly makes the city world class? After all, what makes a city like NYC so great- is it the skyscrapers or the subway? That's part of it for sure-but to me, it's Broadway, it's Julliard, it's the Lincoln Center. It's the galleries of SOHO and the music of The Ramones and Frank Sinatra. Etc. etc. Vancouver is not totally void of the arts obviously but I wouldn't say it has much more than a city like San Diego for instance. Sorry to hijack a thread about the YVR airport here everyone but I needed to respond to this.

vansky
Jan 30, 2010, 5:31 AM
3 million will give u a world class place, 2030, it will come, just wait another 20 yrs...yvr's gona be like a spider by then, and downtown will sink with all the over weight skyscrapers, richmond will be close to floods due to the mid-rises, and nobody will survive an earth quake or big flood here, since sth's been predicted before 2075...

deasine
Jan 30, 2010, 5:46 AM
It's about time this thread gets back on track now.

GeeCee
Jan 30, 2010, 8:19 AM
Anyone have any pictures of the Olympic posters, etc that have been put up?

SpongeG
Jan 30, 2010, 8:25 AM
there was a story tonight on global about salt lake city years after the olympics- it basically said they had and continue to have a huge jump in tourists especially skiers

so there could be some good news for us

Prometheus
Jan 30, 2010, 10:55 AM
political freedom? in Hong Kong or Singapore? you kidding me? hahaha.

They seem to have economic freedom.

Hong Kong and Singapore are ranked #1 and #2 on the 2010 Index of Economic Freedom respectively: http://www.heritage.org/Index/

nova9
Jan 30, 2010, 8:37 PM
:previous: :previous: :previous:

Exactly.

SpongeG
Jan 31, 2010, 1:23 AM
an area set up for the games - apparently this is where olympic people involved - athletes, media etc will be transported when they arrive at YVR...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2783/4315999035_a8eebc5a3d_b.jpg
flickr susan gittins (http://www.flickr.com/photos/susangittins/)

s211
Jan 31, 2010, 8:37 PM
Um are you thinking about Nordstrom?

Nieman Marcus only has one location in WA state, in Bellevue.

Ron.

I stand corrected. Rather corrected. :)

whatnext
Feb 1, 2010, 4:28 AM
Yuck, what's with the big concrete blocks they've put around the entrances to the terminal? Are they to protect us against Olympic terrorists or runaway valets.:haha:

trofirhen
Feb 1, 2010, 7:25 AM
Hot Rod, you seem to have a hard on for Vancouver that doesn't allow you to see things very subjectively. No one, let me repeat, no one in Seattle thinks they are anywhere near the importance of a city like New York or Los Angeles. You seem to think it's Seattleites who have a larger image of their city on the world stage than Vancouver does which I simply find not true at all. Vancouver IMO is the city reaching for glamour and attention through marketing and big showy splashes WAY more than Seattle. You have to think about how each city views itself with respect to it's country. Seattle does not think of itself as some warm paradise with palm trees, movie stars and high end shopping. In fact, it's thought of as a cold, grey and far away place with respect to the rest of the U.S.--I'm endeared by that and think that's what makes Seattle a great place. It is truly a city supplanted in the northwest and derives it character from what makes the PNW different than the rest of the world.
Vancouver is the ONLY large city on Canada's west coast and it's third largest city at that. Seattle has to compete for the resources (both human and monetary) with Portland, San Francisco, L.A. and San Diego. Even with those other cities to compete with Seattle had the ingenuity to forge an economy AND might I add an arts scene that is the envy of cities even larger. This includes Vancouver. You seem to give short shrift to what it takes for a city to give rise to ideas and innovation which allows for large companies to become what they are in the first place, and then from there move on to change the world. Now, Microsoft may not be as relevent as it once was and Boeing not as powerful, but the community of Seattle that could foster such innovation is not a thing of the past.
No one ever mentions (trofirhen exluded) about the defecit of culture between the two cities. Vancouver has built a great city with respect to infrastructure, parks, public trans on its downtown peninsula and it deserves accolades for that. But cities are more than just a collection of buildings and good urban planning decisions. It's the arts community that animates and gives a voice to the talents of it's citizens. Seattle is a powerhouse for a city its size with respect to the arts. While not a home to a major world renowned museum, Seattle has a great opera, symphony, and ballet. A huge and well respected theater scene, a music scene that has been strong since way before grunge and continues to be relevent. I could go on.
I actually think Seattle is in a better position than Vancouver. Seattle can build and become more dense. It can try to correct it's bad planning decisions in the future and I think it's headed in the right direction. The question is- Can Vancouver build a strong vibrant economy from homegrown innovation? Can Vancouver foster an arts community that truly makes the city world class? After all, what makes a city like NYC so great- is it the skyscrapers or the subway? That's part of it for sure-but to me, it's Broadway, it's Julliard, it's the Lincoln Center. It's the galleries of SOHO and the music of The Ramones and Frank Sinatra. Etc. etc. Vancouver is not totally void of the arts obviously but I wouldn't say it has much more than a city like San Diego for instance. Sorry to hijack a thread about the YVR airport here everyone but I needed to respond to this.

Hot Rod, you and I have communicated in the past, and I like Vancouver almost as much as you do. But to be really frank with you, the points SeaJ raises are largely right-on. Seattle is not competing with NYC or Chicago.

It's competing with SF, LA, Portland and San Diego.

And, it DOES have a number of excellent things going for it.... like a real economy of scale, among others, like that fantastic arts scene, the centrepiece of which is probably the Seattle Opera, which has been running for decades, full-time, year round. Nothing in Vancouver comes close to that.
SeaJ put it all very succinctly in the post.

Seattle has a different ambience than Vancouver; some prefer it, some don't. But please don't write Seattle off. If cities were arm wrestlers, I'm sorry, but Seattle would win every time.

vansky
Feb 1, 2010, 7:42 AM
i'm pretty much convinced that vancouver is the clean and look category winner, look at the airport...

if it can keep it up through the next 10 yrs of development, surely gona be a heavenly looking place

NetMapel
Feb 1, 2010, 8:10 AM
I don't know where the notion that Vancouver region don't have an art scene comes from:

World Renown Art Schools/Departments:
- Emily Carr University of Art + Design (http://www.ecuad.ca/)
- Vancouver Film School (http://www.vfs.com)
- University of British Columbia (http://www.ubc.ca)
- Capilano University (http://www.capilanou.ca/)

Operas:
- The Opera Project (http://www.theoperaproject.org/)
- Vancouver Opera (http://www.vanopera.bc.ca/)
- Opera Appassionata (http://www.operaappassionata.org/)
- Pacific Opera Victoria (http://www.pov.bc.ca/) (Yes it's based in Victoria, but it's easy travel)

Plays:
- Too many to name. Check out Vancouver Plays for some schedules (http://www.vancouverplays.com/index.shtml)
- Vancouver International Fringe Festival (http://www.vancouverfringe.com/) - BC's biggest theatre festival consisting of over 400 performances and more than 65 different groups over 11 days.

Local Art Groups:
- The Artery (http://www.artery.ca/)
- Visual Effects Society (http://www.visualeffectssociety.com/section/vancouver)
- SIGGRAPH Vancouver (http://www.siggraph.ca) (Did you know that we're hosting the official SIGGRAPH convention in 2011 ? The first time this even is hosted outside of the US.
- Game Developers Conference Canada (http://www.gdc-canada.com/) (Also hosting the 2010 convention this summer)
- Alliance For Arts and Culture (http://www.allianceforarts.com/)

Gallaries/Museums:
- Vancouver Art Gallery (http://www.vanartgallery.bc.ca/)
- Museum of Vancouver (http://www.museumofvancouver.ca/)
- Vancouver Maritime Museum (http://www.vancouvermaritimemuseum.com/)
- Royal British Columbia Museum (http://rbcm1.rbcm.gov.bc.ca/) (Yes it's based in Victoria, but it's easy travel)
- Vancouver Contemporary Art Gallery (http://www.contemporaryartgallery.ca/)

International VFX/game studios in Vancouver:
- Digital Domain Vancouver
- Pixar Canada
- MPC Vancouver
- CIS Vancouver
- Zoic Studio
- Sony Imageworks
- Stargate Studio
- EA Canada
- Rockstar Vancouver
- Radical Entertainment
- Relic Entertainment
- Ubisoft Canada branch
- Disney Interactive branch

Other misc. facts:
- Vancouver is also home of the second largest Chinatown in North America with a long heritage.
- Vancouver is the 3rd largest filming production location in North America, behind only LA and NYC.
- District 9's visual effects was made by local visual effects house, Image Engine.
- Old school 3D TV animation series such as Reboots and Beast Wars were made by local animation house, Mainframe (now known as Rainmaker)

In conclusion, to say that Vancouver got no art scene is ridiculous. I am currently a student pursuing in this industry and have done much research on this. No, I am not comparing Vancouver to Seattle's art scene, but Vancouver does have a respectable amount of art scene. Nobody here compared Vancouver to NYC and such except for yourself.

Millennium2002
Feb 1, 2010, 8:38 AM
people, move the topic elsewhere, as Deasine had asked earlier.

I support the discussion but it's not in the right thread... the topic of airports and airlines is not entirely related to cities competing for attention... maybe a substantial fraction is, but still... create your own thread to talk about these issues.

SpongeG
Feb 1, 2010, 11:49 AM
arrivals start this week should be interesting how the airport is

my friend is working in security at the village he said its so bnoring cause nothing to do - people will start to arrive this week he said so he is hoping for something more interesting

trofirhen
Feb 1, 2010, 5:47 PM
people, move the topic elsewhere, as Deasine had asked earlier.

I support the discussion but it's not in the right thread... the topic of airports and airlines is not entirely related to cities competing for attention... maybe a substantial fraction is, but still... create your own thread to talk about these issues.

Sorry, yes, you're right Allan.

Visitors from cities with utilitarian-style airports are in for a "wowee" first impression when they see the fish tanks, trees, pond, waterfall, stream .....

I hope this gives the airport more profile (it will, of course, but I mean lots of it) and that the impression left by the airport, the city, and the environs will attract more visitors and more airlines

whatnext
Feb 3, 2010, 12:48 AM
Nudiescopes are now in place at YVR:

Passengers heading to the US from Vancouver's International Airport should be prepared to be scanned in full-body scanners.

The airport has installed two machines and they're now fully operational.[/I]http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/22874--naked-body-scanners-in-place-at-yvr

Spork
Feb 3, 2010, 7:13 AM
Nudiescopes are now in place at YVR:

Passengers heading to the US from Vancouver's International Airport should be prepared to be scanned in full-body scanners.

The airport has installed two machines and they're now fully operational.[/I]http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/22874--naked-body-scanners-in-place-at-yvr

I'm really not looking forward to news reports on the anal bomber after some extremist organization figures out that these things don't scan your entire skeletal structure.

trofirhen
Feb 3, 2010, 9:47 PM
I'm really not looking forward to news reports on the anal bomber after some extremist organization figures out that these things don't scan your entire skeletal structure.

OMG ! ! Now they'll have to invent a scanner that does . . . .
:yuck:

Yume-sama
Feb 3, 2010, 9:57 PM
OMG ! ! Now they'll have to invent a scanner that does . . . .
:yuck:

There already is one. It's in prisons, all you do is sit on it :P
http://www.bodyorificesecurityscanner.com/us/

They were talking about putting these in airports, along with the body scanners, back when all this first happened.

trofirhen
Feb 3, 2010, 10:26 PM
There already is one. It's in prisons, all you do is sit on it :P
http://www.bodyorificesecurityscanner.com/us/

They were talking about putting these in airports, along with the body scanners, back when all this first happened.

Interesting. Oh well, it's less "intrusive" than I had originally imagined.
Thank you for putting my mind at ease. I had visions of ....... (you know)

tuffyy
Feb 9, 2010, 8:47 AM
You guys will be seeing AeroFlot on the 11th and 20th with a Airbus A330-200 from Moscow for special olympic charters.