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MalcolmTucker
Aug 3, 2010, 7:08 PM
^ We're negotiating a set of trade agreements with India, one of which is a new Air Service Agreement. Right now, that traffic is going through Europe, and it can't go direct. These things don't change over night, they are complicated diplomatic commercial agreements. Should we give up on direct flights for the sake of expediency?

Would you rather have multiple direct flights to multiple destinations in India in the next decade? Or multiple flights through the gulf hubs today? I know which I would choose.

trofirhen
Aug 3, 2010, 7:16 PM
^ We're negotiating a set of trade agreements with India, one of which is a new Air Service Agreement. Right now, that traffic is going through Europe, and it can't go direct. These things don't change over night, they are complicated diplomatic commercial agreements. Should we give up on direct flights for the sake of expediency?

Would you rather have multiple direct flights to multiple destinations in India in the next decade? Or multiple flights through the gulf hubs today? I know which I would choose.
:previous:
Of course I'd choose the multiple flights direct to India, but just how long is all this going to take? The "new" Jet AIRWAYS and KINGFISHER services to Vancouver >< Delhi and Mumbai were announced in 2008. They're still blathering about it.

And I'll bet your bottom dollar that it's John Baird and the Canadian team who are holding things up, not India.

*****

By the way, have you ever considered that a Gulf hub is PERFECT for ongoing flights to Africa: Nairobi, Lagos, Jo'burg, Cape Town? Or does that not matter?

vanlaw
Aug 3, 2010, 7:55 PM
Mexicana officially filed for bankruptcy protection a few hours ago....

vanlaw
Aug 3, 2010, 8:06 PM
I didnt realize Alaska did a Bellinham-Vegas - has that been going on for a while? I always just look at Allegiant.......

Bellingham airport to offer daily flights to Honolulu

Alaska Airlines hopes to lure travellers from B.C.

Alaska Airlines announced Monday it hopes to lure Metro Vancouver travellers by offering low-fare, non-stop daily flights from Bellingham International Airport (BIA) to Honolulu.

The flights, set to begin Jan. 7, will be the first time scheduled flights will be offered from Bellingham to Hawaii. They will be aimed primarily at travellers in northwest Washington and the growing number of B.C. residents making the short trek to Bellingham to take advantage of lower fares.

Travellers will fly on Boeing 737-800 aircraft, which accommodate 157 passengers.

"A heavy amount of the focus, we suspect, will be from the Lower Mainland," Joe Sprague, Alaska Airlines' vice-president of marketing, said in an interview. "That has been the trend for Bellingham. And Hawaii is a very popular destination for residents of Western Canada."

Sprague said ticket prices, which will be rolled out Thursday, will be competitive.

"I can tell you the fares will be very, very attractive. It will be among the lowest fares you can find to get from the West Coast to Hawaii. We'll have some terrific prices."

Sprague said Alaska Airlines will also offer all-inclusives, including flights, accommodation, transfers and tours.

He noted that Alaska Airlines now offers flights to Las Vegas from Bellingham, attracting a large percentage of B.C. travellers. "It's in excess of 50 per cent and growing."

He expects the same will hold true for their Hawaii flights.

Sprague said Alaska Airlines will target B.C. travellers with a "fun promotion" in Metro Vancouver locations on Thursday. "We'll have our sales and marketing teams in various locations."

Monday's announcement comes as Bellingham International Airport reconstructs its runway and taxiway as part of a $29-million project that will allow the airport to handle planes as large as a 757.

The expansion is anticipated to increase the number of both U.S. and Canadian flyers heading to destinations throughout the U.S.

The project -- the largest construction project in the 90-year history of the Port of Bellingham -- will include rehabilitation of the runway and reconstruction and widening of the parallel taxiway. It is expected to be completed later this year.

Another $28 million is being spent over the next five years rehabilitating the commercial terminal.

Art Choat, director of aviation for the Bellingham airport, said Monday the Alaska Airlines announcement is "a big deal" for the airport and that the expanded terminal bodes well for the new service.

"This gives us more urgency for our terminal renovation," Choat said. "Our current terminal is 29,000 square feet. It will go to 90,000 square feet and will support half a million passengers a year. It will give us the ability to better handle the volumes using BIA."

Choat said the airport has seen strong growth over the last few years and that it's expected to have about 375,000 outbound passengers this year. He said the new Alaska Airlines service will provide a cost-effective alternative for B.C. residents.


Read more:
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Bellingham+airport+offer+daily+flights+Honolulu/3352708/story.html#ixzz0vZizRUXO

Yume-sama
Aug 4, 2010, 4:44 PM
Mexicana officially filed for bankruptcy protection a few hours ago....

Damn, and AC was foolish enough to give them back the 4 A319's they seized :P

SpongeG
Aug 4, 2010, 9:43 PM
I didnt realize Alaska did a Bellinham-Vegas - has that been going on for a while? I always just look at Allegiant.......

not for too long maybe a year or two at the most - they are shutting down in september for a couple weeks to extend the runway or something for the hawaii flights

I just wish i had taken advantage of that other airline that is now gone that flew to or could connect to places out east and midwest etc.

vanlaw
Aug 4, 2010, 10:47 PM
not for too long maybe a year or two at the most - they are shutting down in september for a couple weeks to extend the runway or something for the hawaii flights

I just wish i had taken advantage of that other airline that is now gone that flew to or could connect to places out east and midwest etc.

Southwest woud be a great additon, but i doubt there is enough demand to justify them coming to bellingham

trofirhen
Aug 4, 2010, 11:23 PM
Seems too bad that Southwest and Westjet never ended up joining forces in code-share. Would have strenghthened YVR's position and given us a whole new range of flights to the USA. (correct me if I'm wrong)

trofirhen
Aug 5, 2010, 12:15 AM
http://www.yvr.ca/en/airmailarticles/10-07-28/Global_Connections_Community_Benefits_The_Numbers_Behind_Routes_2010.aspx

Gordon
Aug 6, 2010, 3:00 PM
Prime Minsiter Harper Shauffled his cabinet & B.C.'s Chuck Strahl is the new Transportation Minister. This appointment hopefully will help YVR et soe new routes.

whatnext
Aug 6, 2010, 3:23 PM
:previous:
Of course I'd choose the multiple flights direct to India, but just how long is all this going to take? The "new" Jet AIRWAYS and KINGFISHER services to Vancouver >< Delhi and Mumbai were announced in 2008. They're still blathering about it.

And I'll bet your bottom dollar that it's John Baird and the Canadian team who are holding things up, not India.

*****

By the way, have you ever considered that a Gulf hub is PERFECT for ongoing flights to Africa: Nairobi, Lagos, Jo'burg, Cape Town? Or does that not matter?

Kingfisher Airlines cancelled their A340 order two years ago due to the recession. Those were the aircraft they planned to use for routes like YVR. I'm pretty sure Air Canada had nothing to do with that.

trofirhen
Aug 6, 2010, 3:32 PM
Prime Minsiter Harper Shauffled his cabinet & B.C.'s Chuck Strahl is the new Transportation Minister. This appointment hopefully will help YVR et soe new routes.
:previous:
Hey! Great news, having a Transport Minister from BC. So, John Baird is out. :D Maybe that WILL make a difference. Thanks for posting that
Kingfisher Airlines cancelled their A340 order two years ago due to the recession. Those were the aircraft they planned to use for routes like YVR. I'm pretty sure Air Canada had nothing to do with that.
:previous:
Thanks for that piece of information; good to clarify. (Besides, my friend, HOW could AIR CANADA's influence and needs possibly do ANYTHING detrimental to Vancouver?:jester: )

craneSpotter
Aug 6, 2010, 3:56 PM
Mexicana officially filed for bankruptcy protection a few hours ago....

Mexicana has also suspended all sales/reservations too (they can't sell through travel agents anyway - due to some sort of missed payment). They only are selling tix for their domestic flights which are operated by their two regional operators.

Mexicana continues to operate their already scheduled flights, including ones to Canada, simply to honour already sold tix. For the time being anyway...

So, right now they do not have service (for new customers) to YVR, YYC, YYZ or YUL.

MexicanaClick and MexicanaLink continue to operate, market and sell tickets for all of their flights.
Reservation and issuing of tickets for flights operated by Mexicana Airlines (CMA) have been suspended indefinitely. However, Mexicana Airlines (CMA) will continue flying in the interest of protecting passengers who already have tickets and flight itineraries.

trofirhen
Aug 6, 2010, 4:02 PM
Mexicana has also suspended all sales/reservations too (they can't sell through travel agents anyway - due to some sort of missed payment). They only are selling tix for their domestic flights which are operated by their two regional operators.

Mexicana continues to operate their scheduled flights, including ones to Canada, to honour already sold tix. For the time being anyway...

About how much longer will their service last? Maybe into September or October? After that, it seems only JAL will have the Vancouver - Mexico City route. Aeromexico flies there out of Seattle, but I don't know what financial shape they are in.

vanlaw
Aug 6, 2010, 5:29 PM
:previous:
Hey! Great news, having a Transport Minister from BC. So, John Baird is out. :D Maybe that WILL make a difference. Thanks for posting that

:previous:
Thanks for that piece of information; good to clarify. (Besides, my friend, HOW could AIR CANADA's influence and needs possibly do ANYTHING detrimental to Vancouver?:jester: )

Keep dreaming. It is clear with the Harper gov't that it doesnt matter where he, or any cabinet ministers come from. Wont help at all. Even many Albertans are pissed that Harper hasnt "helped" the West they way the expetced given he is from Alberta.

djh
Aug 6, 2010, 7:41 PM
Keep dreaming. It is clear with the Harper gov't that it doesnt matter where he, or any cabinet ministers come from. Wont help at all. Even many Albertans are pissed that Harper hasnt "helped" the West they way the expetced given he is from Alberta.

Actually, I think it's pretty good policy that a government doesn't condone a minister favouring projects from their home area. If that were the case, we'd rarely get any decent projects, services or funding UNLESS a BC'er was in cabinet. We can't have it both ways.

whatnext
Aug 17, 2010, 7:06 PM
Good news, Air Canada has announced it will begin daily flights to Tokyo-Haneda in January, in addition to its daily flights to Narita! So Air Canada will have double daily to Tokyo. Maybe they'll even lure Yume's business.;)
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/August2010/17/c3201.html

Gordon
Aug 17, 2010, 8:59 PM
That's good news , I wonder why they chose Haneda as opposed to Narita?

That will become a 787 route once they start taking delivery of the planes as the 767's are to be retired.

whatnext
Aug 17, 2010, 9:10 PM
That's good news , I wonder why they chose Haneda as opposed to Narita?

That will become a 787 route once they start taking delivery of the planes as the 767's are to be retired.

Air Canada already flys from YVR to Narita. Haneda, which is older and closer to central Tokyo, was only recently re-opened to international flights. Given that proximity, its seen by many as the more desirable airport.

Previously the Narita-Haneda relationship was similar to what was abortively attempted in Montreal with Mirabel and Dorval.

twoNeurons
Aug 17, 2010, 9:18 PM
Great News!

They chose Haneda because it's a much more desirable airport to fly into. It's practically right inside the city on Tokyo bay (about the same distance as YVR but for a city 10x the size ) and it has far more connections to places in Japan.

In addition, they're expanding and Air Canada wants a piece of the action. If they don't get in now, there probably won't be an opportunity later. It's a smart move for them.

Narita is, at ~80km from Tokyo, further than YXX (Abbotsford) is from Vancouver. It would be like YVR running out of room and deciding to built an international airport out on Sumas flats.

Then, after building the airport, planning on building a bullet train line to it so that it's not too inconvenient, only to have residents in Abbotsford and Langley protest the line and ultimately have it scrapped. After decades of fighting for this line and fighting for land at the airport ( take a look at Narita Airport... there are farms and stuff in the middle of taxiways... because of Japan's strong property laws ), they decide to just expand Haneda. No doubt, the successes of Osaka and Nagoya in building on reclaimed ground was the reason they decided Haneda expansion was now feasible.

I don't like flying into Narita as I'm transferring to Haneda usually, so this is great news for me.

EDIT: My elation turned to deflation. I forgot that these new landing slots are from 11PM - 7AM. Air Canada lands at 11PM, but the next flight to Osaka is at 6:25am. I guess, though, that's the best choice for AC, as it would have to leave at 2am from Vancouver to get there by 6am.

trofirhen
Aug 17, 2010, 10:17 PM
Wonderful news about reinstating flights to Haneida.
Now, what about Paris? Surely there's a market. If there's one in Seattle (and there is) there is surely one here.
Charles de Gaulle Airport or Orly Airport? I'll settle for either. :D

Johnny Aussie
Aug 17, 2010, 10:41 PM
I was surprised that the new Haneda flights aren't just a transfer from Narita.

AC double daily to Tokyo from YVR, I wonder how long that will last!

My question is, where are they pulling this 763 from?

trofirhen
Aug 17, 2010, 11:28 PM
I know I'm hung up on Paris, and everyone else knows it, too ...... but why this recurrent obsession with Japan, Japan, Japan ???? Great place, but the whole Vancouver - Japan route dominates this thread. It's inexplicable to me.

nova9
Aug 17, 2010, 11:34 PM
I know I'm hung up on Paris, and everyone else knows it, too ...... but why this recurrent obsession with Japan, Japan, Japan ???? Great place, but the whole Vancouver - Japan route dominates this thread. It's inexplicable to me.

then you need to come back to vancouver and see how the demographics of vancouver have changed.

i myself prefer paris. but among my friends (all asian), i am the only one that has never travelled to tokyo. all my other friends like travelling to asia and show little interest in europe where as i am the opposite.

trofirhen
Aug 17, 2010, 11:48 PM
then you need to come back to vancouver and see how the demographics of vancouver have changed.

i myself prefer paris. but among my friends (all asian), i am the only one that has never travelled to tokyo. all my other friends like travelling to asia and show little interest in europe where as i am the opposite.

I know Vancouver is about half Asian now, although not all Japanese, (Korean, Chinese, Pakistani, Indian, Sri Lankan, Indonesian) . . .but looking at another aspect, there are several daily flights to London, Frankfurt and Amsterdam. But these are the ONLY European cities with year-round direct service.

So there IS quite a demand for European travel destinations, too. I just wish they'd add Paris to the roster, that's all.
A lot of people go there from Vancouver, but outside the summer peak, they have to change planes, usually in Toronto, or elsewhere. Speaking to a YVR marketing representative, (of Chinese origin, by the way) he said YVR is very anxious to get a year-round Paris nonstop. Also, in a recent survey of desired destinations, Paris topped the list by far. Twice the percentage of any other city.

It's just a case of the Feds hogging things, although many will say "NO-O-O, it's lack of market demand."
Air France got sick of being denied permission (before Open Skies was signed) and went to Seattle instead, so they're unlikely to come here now. Too bad.

MalcolmTucker
Aug 18, 2010, 1:13 AM
Air France already flies to YVR through its subsidiary KLM. I am sure that if it feels the market can support it, it will put in the flight once open skies is finalized. Last thing they would want is Air Canada or Lufthansa starting a direct flight.

Only thing I would worry about is yield - is there enough air cargo and business class passengers?

whatnext
Aug 18, 2010, 5:05 AM
I know I'm hung up on Paris, and everyone else knows it, too ...... but why this recurrent obsession with Japan, Japan, Japan ???? Great place, but the whole Vancouver - Japan route dominates this thread. It's inexplicable to me.

Probably because even in a bad year Japan sends 5 times the amount of tourists to BC as France does.
http://www.tca.gov.bc.ca/research/IndustryPerformance/pdfs/intl_visitor_arrivals/2009/International_Visitor_Arrivals_December_2009.sflb.pdf

Hourglass
Aug 18, 2010, 5:47 AM
Not to mention the business angle as well as the fact that Tokyo is the location of a Star Alliance hub

The timing of the flights seem a bit inconvenient to me (arrive at Haneda at 2300? Good for businesspeople, I suppose -- land, get some shuteye, then meetings next day) but still gotta love the return leg -- a flight where you land in Vancouver 8 hours earlier than you leave Tokyo - at least in local time. :)

SpongeG
Aug 18, 2010, 5:47 AM
part of the pacific rim here in vancouver - not the atlantic rim ;)

Yume-sama
Aug 18, 2010, 6:29 AM
The landing times at Haneda are just plain stupid. I would never choose to take it over a flight to Narita, at those times. Why pay for a nights hotel if you arrive at 11PM? I can see this being OK for Japanese residents, some of them, but a large portion of the passengers on the plane are for people connecting outside of Japan, too... and by 11PM it is too late for this.

whatnext
Aug 18, 2010, 6:58 AM
The landing times at Haneda are just plain stupid. I would never choose to take it over a flight to Narita, at those times. Why pay for a nights hotel if you arrive at 11PM? I can see this being OK for Japanese residents, some of them, but a large portion of the passengers on the plane are for people connecting outside of Japan, too... and by 11PM it is too late for this.

Haneda has assigned those lousy time slots.

Hourglass
Aug 18, 2010, 7:00 AM
:previous:

Yes, from what I understand, slot availability was limited, hence these departure/arrival times. Yume is right though, I think the majority of passengers on this flight will terminate in Tokyo.

Great to see new flights from AC in Vancouver. I'm interested to see how long the double-daily frequencies last.

usog
Aug 18, 2010, 7:21 AM
Ugh...I don't see the point. Wasn't one of the benefits of flying direct to haneda easier transfers to domestic flights within Japan? I understand the slots given to all the North American routes in general were terrible but doesn't it defeat the purpose? Asides from being closer to Tokyo in general and all.

trofirhen
Aug 18, 2010, 8:13 AM
Air France already flies to YVR through its subsidiary KLM. I am sure that if it feels the market can support it, it will put in the flight once open skies is finalized. Last thing they would want is Air Canada or Lufthansa starting a direct flight.

Only thing I would worry about is yield - is there enough air cargo and business class passengers?

Probably because even in a bad year Japan sends 5 times the amount of tourists to BC as France does.
http://www.tca.gov.bc.ca/research/IndustryPerformance/pdfs/intl_visitor_arrivals/2009/International_Visitor_Arrivals_December_2009.sflb.pdf

Not to mention the business angle as well as the fact that Tokyo is the location of a Star Alliance hub

The timing of the flights seem a bit inconvenient to me (arrive at Haneda at 2300? Good for businesspeople, I suppose -- land, get some shuteye, then meetings next day) but still gotta love the return leg -- a flight where you land in Vancouver 8 hours earlier than you leave Tokyo - at least in local time. :)

part of the pacific rim here in vancouver - not the atlantic rim ;)

Well stated. Now I understand better. Thank you all

Yume-sama
Aug 18, 2010, 3:20 PM
Haneda has assigned those lousy time slots.

I know, but it is quite lousy. This could just be a "foot in the door" type thing, though. Haneda has massively expanded and nearly doubled its capacity, from 285,000 movements to 400,000 movements per year, for 2010. I'm sure should a route prove popular, the times could be re-adjusted to be better. They have built an entire new International terminal due to open in October.

It would be kind of funny if it is only operational between 11PM - 7AM :P

Gordon
Aug 18, 2010, 3:30 PM
As far as the schedule the 11:30 arrival time that may not be a great time to arrive, buth there are a nuberof flights from YVR to Asia that depart between 2AM & 3:30AM arriving between 6AM & 8AM tvarious ponts in Asia at least withthe late night arrival time you can get a decent sleep & be fresh for business the next day.

twoNeurons
Aug 18, 2010, 3:32 PM
Actually, there is a transfer to Singapore which is perfectly timed.

These times will be great for Japanese travellers to Canada. Go to the airport late night after work, be in Vancouver before suppertime. It will be good for a return leg of a flight. You can spend the whole day in Tokyo before your flight. Japan is losing a lot of Japanese international passengers who are choosing to transfer out of Incheon (Seoul). Incheon is becoming the hub for Japanese international flights. One of the reasons cited is that Japan doesn't really have a hub airport.

People don't want to do the Haneda-Narita transfer.

Kansai terminal was supposed to be a hub for the Kobe/Kyoto/Osaka area, but Kobe built an airport later and they kept Itami in Northern Osaka open.

Haneda has recently opened new routes in Asia. China, Singapore, Korea and Hawaii are all big destinations. In addition, Haneda serves the closer city airports in these places.

They want to make Haneda a 24-hour hub airport.

That's why I suspect they chose those times for landing spots. They know airlines want to fly to Haneda, but they don't want people to "switch" to Haneda. They want to increase traffic. So, they provide inconvenient timeslots into Haneda (landing slots are more expensive, too). My guess is that they'll open up the time window in a year or two. At that time, airlines who were "in" at the beginning will likely get first dibs at better time slots.

In the meantime, they may have increased passengers.

Think about it. Air Canada has to fill twice as many spots. To do that, they're going to have to run promotions or offer seat sales or something to fill those planes.

They won't drop their Narita flights.

It appears that they took a calculated risk with Haneda that it was desireable enough to offer crappy times.

As for why Japan is always talked about over Paris, I dunno... it's closer? Paris is the world's most visited city, but Japan offers a lot of connections to a lot of destinations in Asia.

About the only thing that this YVR-HND flight offers is a nice choice on the return leg.

satishreddy
Aug 18, 2010, 3:59 PM
Regarding the timing of the flights, I believe North American airlines are restricted to the late night/early morning slots. You can find that Delta and American have scheduled flights arriving/departing at those times as well. I am not sure about the rules for European and Asian airlines.

twoNeurons
Aug 18, 2010, 4:08 PM
Regarding the timing of the flights, I believe North American airlines are restricted to the late night/early morning slots. You can find that Delta and American have scheduled flights arriving/departing at those times as well. I am not sure about the rules for European and Asian airlines.

If I recall correctly, any flight longer than the longest domestic flight ( ~2000km to Okinawa I think ) is subject to the 10PM-7AM flight times. Daytime will focus on East Asia. Nighttime will focus on Americas, Europe and Southeast Asia.

New Terminal looks nice:

_ojf8MJgbz0

trofirhen
Aug 18, 2010, 5:59 PM
Here is some information about the upcoming World Routes Forum at YVR that may or may not be interesting.

http://www.routesonline.com/airports/2539/vancouver-international-airport-yvr/

Gordon
Aug 18, 2010, 6:53 PM
The routesonline link

says there are 4 underserved rougtes at YvR and 19 Userved routes at YVR

I wonder what they are?

twoNeurons
Aug 18, 2010, 8:49 PM
Anyone care to list them?

trofirhen
Aug 18, 2010, 10:47 PM
The routesonline link

says there are 4 underserved rougtes at YvR and 19 Userved routes at YVR

I wonder what they are?


*** Sorry. Something changed since I posted it. I kept the original in my files and copied and pasted them here.
They're listed below.

trofirhen
Aug 18, 2010, 10:55 PM
CPH (Copenhagen Airport) - Unserved Route
TXL (Berlin Airports) - Unserved Route
(Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority) - Unserved Route
BWI (Baltimore-Washington International Airport) - Unserved Route
DXB (Dubai International Airport) - Unserved Route
SGN (Ho Chi Minh City) - Unserved Route
KUL (KL International Airport) - Unserved Route
XSP (Singapore Seletar) - Unserved Route
BKK (Bangkok) - Unserved Route
BNE (Brisbane Airport) - Unserved Route
MEL (Melbourne Airport) - Unserved Route
CAN (Guangzhou Baiyun International Airport) - Unserved Route
DEL (Delhi) - Unserved Route
KIX (Osaka Kansai International Airport) - Unserved Route
PHL (Philadelphia) - Unserved Route
SMF (Sacramento Internat) - Unserved Route
BOS (Boston Logan International Airport) - Unserved Route
MIA (Miami International Airport) - Unserved Route
MCO (Orlando International) - Unserved Route

trofirhen
Aug 18, 2010, 10:57 PM
PIK (Glasgow Prestwick Airport) - Under Served Route
MAN (Manchester Airport) - Under Served Route
ZRH (Zurich Airport) - Under Served Route
CDG (Paris-Charles de Gaulle Airport) - Under Served Route

trofirhen
Aug 18, 2010, 11:02 PM
Don't know about anyone else, but I'd love to see them ALL get full service. That would put YVR squarely in the airport forefront. Of course, that's highly unlikely. If we walk away with 2 or 3 we'll be lucky.

Gordon
Aug 19, 2010, 4:38 AM
IAD Dulles has been a Summer route over the last few Summers.

Alaska tried Sacramento for a couple of Summers then discontinued it.

Could San Francisco (SFO) be considered under served since Alaska backed out a couple a years ago?

Hourglass
Aug 19, 2010, 5:39 AM
Why Berlin Tegel and not Munich? Munich is a Lufthansa / Star Alliance hub and handles far more passengers than Berlin. I also have doubts about Kuala Lumpur, given Malaysian Airlines' troubles. Maybe Air Asia X could take up the route, though.

A few of the US cities are probably seasonal routes to coincide with the cruise season.

I can't see some of the cities on this list being viable for YVR, unfortunately -- at least not now.

trofirhen
Aug 19, 2010, 9:27 AM
Why Berlin Tegel and not Munich? Munich is a Lufthansa / Star Alliance hub and handles far more passengers than Berlin. I also have doubts about Kuala Lumpur, given Malaysian Airlines' troubles. Maybe Air Asia X could take up the route, though.

A few of the US cities are probably seasonal routes to coincide with the cruise season.

I can't see some of the cities on this list being viable for YVR, unfortunately -- at least not now.

Why Berlin Tegel and not Munich? My question exactly. Doesn't make sense, does it? ....... on second thought, maybe it's because Zurich is close to Munich, and Zurich is a major transfer hub. In which case, Berlin would possibly be a jumping-off point for flights to Eastern Europe (Poland, Russia, etc)

trofirhen
Aug 19, 2010, 11:31 AM
From "Routes Online" which I subscribe to, there is a special (noted above) feature on the upcoming World Routes Forum at YVR in September.

I have tried to put the links of the attending airlines here. Hope it works, ladies and gentlemen .....

http://www.routesonline.com/events/123/the-16th-world-route-development-forum-/attending-delegates/airlines/all/ :rolleyes:

twoNeurons
Aug 19, 2010, 6:23 PM
Realistically, I can see these being possible:

TXL (Berlin Airports) - Unserved Route
(Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority) - Unserved Route
BWI (Baltimore-Washington International Airport) - Unserved Route
DXB (Dubai International Airport) - Unserved Route
SGN (Ho Chi Minh City) - Unserved Route
KUL (KL International Airport) - Unserved Route
XSP (Singapore Seletar) - Unserved Route
BKK (Bangkok) - Unserved Route
CAN (Guangzhou Baiyun International Airport) - Unserved Route
DEL (Delhi) - Unserved Route
BOS (Boston Logan International Airport) - Unserved Route
MIA (Miami International Airport) - Unserved Route
MCO (Orlando International) - Unserved Route
ZRH (Zurich Airport) - Under Served Route
CDG (Paris-Charles de Gaulle Airport) - Under Served Route

Some, because of support from local immigrants, some because they're hubs.

trofirhen
Aug 19, 2010, 6:28 PM
:previous: :previous:

I think you're pretty accurate. However, it may interest you to know that on the site "airport shop," CPH was actually seeking a link to Vancouver, (which Air Canada just picked up - out of Toronto, of course)

On second thought, I think I'd add Brisbane, too, as a hub for Australian cities other than Sydney.

Gordon
Aug 19, 2010, 6:34 PM
The list of possible attendee airlines does not include Air Canada. they should be there as Canada's flag carrier & YVR's largest carrier.

twoNeurons
Aug 19, 2010, 7:03 PM
<double Post>

twoNeurons
Aug 19, 2010, 7:08 PM
:previous: :previous:

I think you're pretty accurate. However, it may interest you to know that on the site "airport shop," CPH was actually seeking a link to Vancouver, (which Air Canada just picked up - out of Toronto, of course)

On second thought, I think I'd add Brisbane, too, as a hub for Australian cities other than Sydney.

Lots of Danes want to come to Vancouver, perhaps?

Actually, I think BC should put more effort into advertising in Germany. German tourists love the outdoors and direct flights from Berlin or Munich would certainly help the tourism industry.

Interestingly, Air Berlin flies to YVR. I'm assuming they don't do YVR-TXL then... and opt for Frankfurt.

EDIT:

Air Berlin's flights are via Dusseldorf

trofirhen
Aug 19, 2010, 7:22 PM
Lots of Danes want to come to Vancouver, perhaps?


Not so much that. There is a large Scandinavian population in Vancouver and BC, and Kastrup is the transfer point for all other cities in Scandinavia: Stockholm, Oslo, Bergen, Göteborg, Uppsala, Trondheim ...... as well as flights into Finland (and I doubt Finnair has the resources to add Vancouver to its list; it's just not big enough, and I believe it already flies to Seattle)

Otherwise stated, the Vancouver - Scandinavia traffic volumes, while not mega-huge, are respectable, which is probably why Copenhagen Airport was seeking a link to Vancouver.

phesto
Aug 19, 2010, 7:28 PM
As Gordon touched on, a lot of the unserved US routes have been tried, usually as seasonal service, then cancelled. The lack of business traffic really weakens the case for a lot of east coast US destinations.

I could see Philly, Boston or Dulles service potentially again in the future though.

I never really understood the Sacremento service. Likewise, a non-stop to BWI doesn't seem warranted. Though it would have served me well when I lived there for a few years...:D

trofirhen
Aug 19, 2010, 7:30 PM
As Gordon touched on, a lot of the unserved US routes have been tried, usually as seasonal service, then cancelled. The lack of business traffic really weakens the case for a lot of east coast US destinations.

I could see Philly, Boston or Dulles service potentially again in the future though.

I never really understood the Sacremento service. Likewise, a non-stop to BWI doesn't seem warranted. Though it would have served me well when I lived there for a few years...:D

Let's face it; Vancouver just isn't a BIG enough city to support all these routes. In ten years, it'll be another story.

whatnext
Aug 19, 2010, 8:52 PM
As Gordon touched on, a lot of the unserved US routes have been tried, usually as seasonal service, then cancelled. The lack of business traffic really weakens the case for a lot of east coast US destinations.

I could see Philly, Boston or Dulles service potentially again in the future though.

I never really understood the Sacremento service. Likewise, a non-stop to BWI doesn't seem warranted. Though it would have served me well when I lived there for a few years...:D

Air Canada served MIA, SMF, MEL and KIX at various times from YVR. One can assume it wasn't profitable or they'd still be flying there. And no other carrier has rushed in to fill the void.

I flew MIA-YVR once, which had to be one of the longest transcons in history. It was an A319 and even then had to be weight restricted.

trofirhen
Aug 19, 2010, 9:02 PM
As Gordon touched on, a lot of the unserved US routes have been tried, usually as seasonal service, then cancelled.

I never really understood the Sacremento service.

There used to be a twice - daily nonstop to San Jose on American Airlines. then the flights continued on to LAX. Similarly, though, I guess it wasn't profitable. Same thing with Sacramento. Easier to fly in and out of SFO.

Gordon
Aug 19, 2010, 9:16 PM
The problem with the Sacremento route may have been that Alaska didnot have a crew base in Vancouver and may not have had one in Sacremento either.

I think the San Jose service may have been prior to Open Skies when the was a limited number of U.S destinations that could be flown to Vancouver.

Hopefully WestJet will continue it's seasonal Summer service year aroun.

trofirhen
Aug 19, 2010, 10:16 PM
The list of possible attendee airlines does not include Air Canada. they should be there as Canada's flag carrier & YVR's largest carrier.

I am sure they WILL be there. I think that perhaps that was a list of "guest" airlines, if you get what I mean. How could a World Routes Forum, held in a Canadian city, not include its own national carrier? (much as I dislike Air Canada and the Toronto fortress)

Spork
Aug 20, 2010, 1:02 AM
Can we start a new "YVR Destinations" thread? I don't read any of this destination speak (seems like it has all been discussed before), but don't want to miss any development news. :)

deasine
Aug 20, 2010, 1:06 AM
YVR-CAN route may be more unlikely especially when the Hong Kong-Shenzhen-Guangzhou HSR completes in 2015.

trofirhen
Aug 20, 2010, 1:07 AM
Can we start a new "YVR Destinations" thread? I don't read any of this destination speak (seems like it has all been discussed before), but don't want to miss any development news. :)
:previous:
Sure! go ahead and start it. Any information that needs to be re-added from my "Routes Online" I can add if I can. So yeah, really. Go ahead and start a new thread. It should be pertinent until the Routes Forum ends in September .... and Vancouver walks away with Spokane, and Billings, Montana as new destinations.

YOU start the thread SPORK. It's a good idea.:)

deasine
Aug 20, 2010, 1:31 AM
I'd prefer not. Either this thread or the other will just die off.

Chikinlittle
Aug 20, 2010, 6:13 AM
Air Canada served MIA, SMF, MEL and KIX at various times from YVR. One can assume it wasn't profitable or they'd still be flying there. And no other carrier has rushed in to fill the void.

I flew MIA-YVR once, which had to be one of the longest transcons in history. It was an A319 and even then had to be weight restricted.

KIX used to be quite profitable for Canadian when that was their route (pre AC takeover).

I remember flying YVR-MIA about 14 years ago on AA in the Canadian Airlines/American Airlines OneWorld Alliance days. Full flights. MIA is the biggest hub to South America. Surprises me that the flight doesn't exist today that AA doesn't pick it up again.

And if another Australian city were picked up, I would think MEL versus BNE, based on potential market alone, with Melbourne being a city more than double the size of BNE.

mezzanine
Aug 20, 2010, 6:49 AM
From YVR's news page. It seems that YVR does want to get all the leverage it can from this routes conference.

http://www.yvr.ca/en/flight-information/latest-information/10-08-17/yvr_welcomes_canada_s_only_daily_flight_to_japan_s_haneda_airport-240683033.aspx


YVR welcomes Canada's only daily flight to Japan's Haneda Airport
August 17, 2010

New service connects Vancouver and central Tokyo

Richmond, BC (August 17, 2010): Vancouver Airport Authority is pleased to welcome Air Canada’s new daily non-stop air service between Vancouver International Airport (YVR) and Haneda Airport. Starting in January 2011, YVR will enjoy the first and only connection between Canada and Haneda, which is only 30 minutes from downtown Tokyo. The new service complements Air Canada’s existing route between YVR and Narita, doubling the number of Air Canada’s daily flights from YVR to Japan. Not only does the new route provide increased business opportunities and economic growth, it also solidifies British Columbia as a destination of choice for trade and tourism.
....
“The success of the Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympic and Paralympic Games showcased British Columbia as a prime destination for tourism and world events,” said Berg. “YVR is North America’s closest major airport to Asia—our prime location and connectivity to the Asia-Pacific region will be one of the many benefits we will be promoting at this year’s Routes 2010 forum in September.”

Vancouver Airport Authority is proud to host the 2010 World Route Development Forum, the largest global meeting place for airports and airlines. Vancouver is the first city in the Americas to host this event, which brings together international air carriers, airports and tourism authorities to map out future air services around the globe.


Realisticaly, in the medium term, maybe we will get KIX and maybe SIA to SIN. I flew their YVR-ICN-SIN route before, and i still think it is a loss they are gone.

With any luck we might get CDG, but realistically, re-gaining what we had to asia is more likely.

mezzanine
Aug 20, 2010, 6:52 AM
WRT south america, continental to their houston hub is ok. It's no miami, but it serves a lot of south american destinations and they are now in the star-alliance fold.

With mexicana gone, do we still have mexico city?

en2
Aug 20, 2010, 1:47 PM
KIX used to be quite profitable for Canadian when that was their route (pre AC takeover).



KIX was always flown by AC, I believe that was their 1st or 2nd Asia Pacific route, either Osaka or Seoul as Canadian had a semi-monopoly on Asian routes whereas AC had a semi-monopoly on European routes.

Canadian used to fly to Tokyo and Nagoya.

Too bad Canadian isn't around anymore, they were committed towards making Vancouver their hub towards Asia-Pacific travel with American Airlines.

That's why AA used to have flights to Miami, Boston, Chicago and DC.

trofirhen
Aug 20, 2010, 2:08 PM
WRT south america, continental to their houston hub is ok. It's no miami, but it serves a lot of south american destinations and they are now in the star-alliance fold.

With mexicana gone, do we still have mexico city?

JAL used to fly there on their way out of Vancouver. Has that changed?

Gordon
Aug 20, 2010, 2:23 PM
I wonder what happened to the Guangzhou route with China Southern?

China Southern is a part of the SkyTeam alliance(Delta) Maybe if Westjet can sign some sort of deal with Delta that could help that service.

PaperTiger
Aug 20, 2010, 5:50 PM
JAL used to fly there on their way out of Vancouver. Has that changed?

Yes With JAL's recent troubles they cancelled that leg of the flight and only flew the Vancouver leg. Mexicana, which is part of the one world alliance then increased their frequency to YVR to connect with the JAL flights I think they had a code share on the route. Now with Mexicana in trouble it leaves another gap in network. the best solution would be for JAL to reintroduce the Mexico city leg, but I fear they are still not in a position finically to do that.

trofirhen
Aug 20, 2010, 6:16 PM
Yes With JAL's recent troubles they cancelled that leg of the flight and only flew the Vancouver leg. Mexicana, which is part of the one world alliance then increased their frequency to YVR to connect with the JAL flights I think they had a code share on the route. Now with Mexicana in trouble it leaves another gap in network. the best solution would be for JAL to reintroduce the Mexico city leg, but I fear they are still not in a position finically to do that.

What about Aeromexico?

Gordon
Aug 20, 2010, 6:38 PM
What about Westjet for the Mexico City route.

twoNeurons
Aug 20, 2010, 7:27 PM
Great opportunity for WestJet if you ask me.

MalcolmTucker
Aug 20, 2010, 7:31 PM
Great opportunity for WestJet if you ask me.

I don't think they would take it however - most of their Mexican routes are underwritten by travel operators.

trofirhen
Aug 20, 2010, 7:35 PM
:previous: :previous: :previous: :previous: :previous: :previous: :previous:

It seems all this means no more Vancouver - Mexico City scheduled nonstops. Hope I'm wrong on that!

SpongeG
Aug 22, 2010, 1:11 AM
old news but a news story on it

Air Canada adds new Tokyo stop

Move will give airline better access to Japanese domestic market

By Derrick Penner, Vancouver Sun

Air Canada joined an international convergence on Tokyo's Haneda airport Tuesday by announcing a new daily flight from Vancouver into what is becoming a bigger regional hub for Asian flights to and from Japan.

The new service, which will be in addition to Air Canada's Vancouver to Tokyo Narita airport, will start in January along with new flights by other international airlines including American Airlines and Delta in the United States.

"Calling [Haneda] a regional hub is probably the best way to phrase it, because they are taking [flights] from the major hubs of airlines and plugging them into [Haneda's] partner connections," Marc-David Seidel, an airline expert in the Sauder School of Business at the University of B.C. said.

Haneda is Tokyo's dominant domestic airport, so Seidel said Air Canada can now better tap Japan's considerable market in the short term.

However, this Oct. 21, Haneda will open a fourth runway and a new terminal that is closer to downtown Tokyo than Narita.

Seidel added that Haneda has regional international connections through All Nippon Airways to Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Seoul and Singapore, with airlines such as Singapore Air adding service to the airport.

Air Canada's strategy is to "complement existing daily flights," as well as improve its reach into Asia, Ben Smith, the airline's executive vice-president and chief commercial officer said in a news release.

In July, the airline reported that its traffic to its Pacific region has increased almost 25 per cent compared with a year ago.

"We are confident our newest international flight will meet the growing demand for travel in the strong Pacific market," Smith said.

...

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/Canada+adds+Tokyo+stop/3411373/story.html#ixzz0xIDeoEGV

Chikinlittle
Aug 22, 2010, 5:30 AM
I don't think they would take it however - most of their Mexican routes are underwritten by travel operators.

I agree. Most of WestJet's routes out of Vancouver (with the exception of their domestic routes and arguably Los Angeles as well) are definitely to leisure/vacation oriented destinations. Mexico City is definitely not a leisure route.

I would foresee it more likely for AC to pick up YVR-MEX, and also increase service on their YYZ-MEX route already currently serviced.

Canada_Line
Aug 23, 2010, 7:12 PM
Does anyone know if the west chevron extension of the airport will be the last expansion of the current ITB? The airport plans seem to claim so but I've noticed this new extension has been constructed to be compatible with further expansions of this wing. There are no air bridges located on the end wall of the terminal (unusual) and the elevated arrivals walkway extends into this end wall even though the last air gates connect farther down this walkway making the end section seemingly unnecessary. YVR has also used the area immediately outside the extension as cargo parking area? which could be easily removed. (The airplane movement markings are located farther to the outside.) This all suggests to me another extension could be built here before an ITB/transborder eastern expansion.

Second, do more detailed maps/diagrams of the YVR terminal building design (or other airports, for that matter) exist? If they do, where could I find these (anyone have them available?:) )? I'm looking for maps that show all airport structures including the aforementioned elevated arrivals walkway, transfer facilities, connecting passageways, arrivals hall layout, etc and passenger flow through the terminal buildings. The abstract terminal maps that all airports provide give minimal information and do not satisfy my curiosity.

Maps of airport airside/runway systems would be appreciated as well. :D

Is a lot of the above information purposefully hidden for security purposes (although there is no reason how this information would compromise security IMO)? What part of airport staff would have access to this information? This information extremely fascinates me. :(

twoNeurons
Aug 23, 2010, 8:38 PM
old news but a news story on it

Air Canada adds new Tokyo stop

Move will give airline better access to Japanese domestic market

By Derrick Penner, Vancouver Sun

"Calling [Haneda] a regional hub is probably the best way to phrase it, because they are taking [flights] from the major hubs of airlines and plugging them into [Haneda's] partner connections," Marc-David Seidel, an airline expert in the Sauder School of Business at the University of B.C. said.

Haneda is Tokyo's dominant domestic airport, so Seidel said Air Canada can now better tap Japan's considerable market in the short term.

I don't know how well they're serving Japan's domestic market in the short term. I don't think there are many flights leaving Haneda after midnight for domestic locations.

Good on the outbound to Vancouver, not so much on the inbound to Haneda.



In July, the airline reported that its traffic to its Pacific region has increased almost 25 per cent compared with a year ago.

"We are confident our newest international flight will meet the growing demand for travel in the strong Pacific market," Smith said.


Personally would've preferred Osaka, but I can see the business sense of "being committed to Haneda" early.

Japan is trying to turn Haneda into Incheon. A 24-hour hub convenient for Japanese travelers. Once that's done, they'll turn their attention to the Kansai(Osaka) area. I think these airlines feel that in time they will relax the flight windows for the "early adopters" and they want to build up customer loyalty in the meantime.

Gordon
Aug 23, 2010, 9:35 PM
The Second phase of the West Chevron is the fina palnned expansion to the current International Terminal Building . The most likely next phase would likely be the Northwest Terminal building( the parking lots across the tarmac from the Transborder concorse( E gates) It maybe be a while beore thsi is needed.

deasine
Aug 23, 2010, 11:30 PM
Does anyone know if the west chevron extension of the airport will be the last expansion of the current ITB? The airport plans seem to claim so but I've noticed this new extension has been constructed to be compatible with further expansions of this wing. There are no air bridges located on the end wall of the terminal (unusual) and the elevated arrivals walkway extends into this end wall even though the last air gates connect farther down this walkway making the end section seemingly unnecessary. YVR has also used the area immediately outside the extension as cargo parking area? which could be easily removed. (The airplane movement markings are located farther to the outside.) This all suggests to me another extension could be built here before an ITB/transborder eastern expansion.

From what I know, the west chevron is built to be extended easily, but there are no plans to do so. The future, new Transborder Terminal will free up gates for the east wing, which gates are using both International and US flights.

Second, do more detailed maps/diagrams of the YVR terminal building design (or other airports, for that matter) exist? If they do, where could I find these (anyone have them available?:) )? I'm looking for maps that show all airport structures including the aforementioned elevated arrivals walkway, transfer facilities, connecting passageways, arrivals hall layout, etc and passenger flow through the terminal buildings. The abstract terminal maps that all airports provide give minimal information and do not satisfy my curiosity.

Maps of airport airside/runway systems would be appreciated as well. :D

Is a lot of the above information purposefully hidden for security purposes (although there is no reason how this information would compromise security IMO)? What part of airport staff would have access to this information? This information extremely fascinates me. :(

I'm not sure if you know, but the media made a big deal when YVR posted terminal plans of their airport out online. You aren't going to get any more detailed information other than the ones on the 2027 Masterplan.

twoNeurons
Aug 24, 2010, 1:39 AM
The Second phase of the West Chevron is the fina palnned expansion to the current International Terminal Building . The most likely next phase would likely be the Northwest Terminal building( the parking lots across the tarmac from the Transborder concorse( E gates) It maybe be a while beore thsi is needed.

Don't you mean the new North-east terminal? It will include a new customs hall, provide 11 additional aircraft gates, a Canada Line station and an additional parkade if required.

2014 will see a new North-South Taxiway ( that'll be surreal to see an A380 cross over the main road and Canada Line )

2018 will see access improvements from Vancouver

2023 will see expansion of said terminal (Phase II). An additional 14 gates, providing a total of 87 jet gates at YVR.

2025 will see a new runway (either Foreshore or Southside)

2027 will see access improvements from Richmond (MIDDLE ARM (MORAY BRIDGE) CROSSING)

From the 2027 Master Plan:
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/7917/screenshot20100823at642.png

Canada_Line
Aug 24, 2010, 2:08 AM
From what I know, the west chevron is built to be extended easily, but there are no plans to do so. The future, new Transborder Terminal will free up gates for the east wing, which gates are using both International and US flights.

Thanks for this. The map in the masterplan was intriguing and another reason for my speculation. Careful examination of the proposed terminal map posted above shows a small roundabout end section to the west chevron that is not currently existing. Of course, this is just wild guessing.

I'm not sure if you know, but the media made a big deal when YVR posted terminal plans of their airport out online. You aren't going to get any more detailed information other than the ones on the 2027 Masterplan.

That's too bad. What part of airport staff would you need to work as to have access to this kind of juicy information?

Gordon
Aug 24, 2010, 4:30 AM
The last phase of the West Chevron will include 6 wide body gates, then the northwest terminal (phase 1) would be built.

twoNeurons
Aug 24, 2010, 2:01 PM
That's too bad. What part of airport staff would you need to work as to have access to this kind of juicy information?

Operations, probably.

trofirhen
Aug 24, 2010, 4:25 PM
The last phase of the West Chevron will include 6 wide body gates, then the northwest terminal (phase 1) would be built.

Excuse me, but when you say that then the "northwest terminal (phase 1) would be built, do you mean the (theoretically) new transborder terminal shaped a bit like a submarine, on the map. Wouldn't that be the NORTHEAST terminal. Not to be nitpicking, but I'm a little confused. Thanks for your time. :)

(or maybe it's going to be referred to as the northwest terminal ??)

Two other questions please: is this new terminal definitely a transborder (United States) flights termainal?
I heard talk of some kind of "people mover" train between it and the current terminal. Any info about this?
YVR doesn't seem big enough to warrant it, as it would surely have moving ramps. But it is possible that
there might be one, I guess.

Gordon
Aug 24, 2010, 4:52 PM
Oops I meant North East

twoNeurons
Aug 24, 2010, 6:01 PM
Wouldn't that be the NORTHEAST terminal. Not to be nitpicking, but I'm a little confused. Thanks for your time. :)

Also corrected in my post.


I heard talk of some kind of "people mover" train between it and the current terminal. Any info about this?


If you look at the map, it appears that there will be a "post-security" connection between transborder and international. This will be for US flights connecting to international destinations, probably complete with moving ramps and all the usual airport stuff.

The end of that terminal will also house a Canada Line station, that could be considered a people mover.

However, I think the "actual" people mover that you're talking about is if the airport decided to expand the terminal either west or South. I believe they were thinking about adding a people mover to connect this satellite terminal.

For the record, I think the North-east terminal makes more sense, though there is definitely room to expand the domestic terminal.

trofirhen
Aug 24, 2010, 6:09 PM
For the record, I think the North-east terminal makes more sense, though there is definitely room to expand the domestic terminal.

Agreed. Better to keep the YVR complex as "compact" as possible, as long as it's not crowded.

trofirhen
Aug 24, 2010, 6:17 PM
BRIDGE) CROSSING)

From the 2027 Master Plan:
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/7917/screenshot20100823at642.png

Looking carefully, one can see that this plan is dated. First of all, the expansion of Pier C is not included.

Secondly, there seems an assumption that the final piece of the West Chevron - not yet built - is a "fait accompli."

Nevertheless, having a new transborder terminal would be great, but I think the state of delapidated Pier B needs to be addressed first.

A YVR source said there are plans in store for Pier B, but would not release any details as yet. I'd like to know what those plans are. Anybody have an idea?

Canada_Line
Aug 24, 2010, 9:59 PM
Looking carefully, one can see that this plan is dated. First of all, the expansion of Pier C is not included.

Secondly, there seems an assumption that the final piece of the West Chevron - not yet built - is a "fait accompli."

Nevertheless, having a new transborder terminal would be great, but I think the state of delapidated Pier B needs to be addressed first.

A YVR source said there are plans in store for Pier B, but would not release any details as yet. I'd like to know what those plans are. Anybody have an idea?

What do you mean by "fait accompli"?

Gordon
Aug 24, 2010, 10:23 PM
The completion of the West Chevron will be the next expansion because the current building was built to be expanded easily and the necessary ground inprovements have been done.

I would think the Peir B project would be significant rehabilitation of the current structure as opposed to a re-build.

whatnext
Aug 24, 2010, 10:37 PM
The transborder turboprop gates really need to be redone, its a total ghetto compared to the rest of the terminal.

trofirhen
Aug 24, 2010, 11:24 PM
What do you mean by "fait accompli"?
That it will definitely be built, sooner or later. In other words, it's not still being considered only a possibility. It's just a matter of when, not if. (According to the plan)

deasine
Aug 25, 2010, 12:09 AM
Looking carefully, one can see that this plan is dated. First of all, the expansion of Pier C is not included.

Secondly, there seems an assumption that the final piece of the West Chevron - not yet built - is a "fait accompli."

Nevertheless, having a new transborder terminal would be great, but I think the state of delapidated Pier B needs to be addressed first.

A YVR source said there are plans in store for Pier B, but would not release any details as yet. I'd like to know what those plans are. Anybody have an idea?

The plan isn't dated. It's just the project was broken up into phases and that the first phase was only building up to Gate D64: just the curved end of the terminal isn't completed. There's no need to expand as of yet, but if there are more airlines coming in, then an expansion will be needed. From what I know, Transat is hoping to continue expanding their Vancouver-European market and introduce Vancouver-Asia (probably to Shanghai or Tokyo). That being said, I can't see how Transat can do that with their current business model. I know China Southern [SkyTeam] is also interested in flying into YVR.

Pier B would be expanded and re-renovated (keeping the bare bones of the structure) similar to what has been done at Pier C.

trofirhen
Aug 25, 2010, 1:08 AM
From what I know, Transat is hoping to continue expanding their Vancouver-European market and introduce Vancouver-Asia (probably to Shanghai or Tokyo). That being said, I can't see how Transat can do that with their current business model.

Pier B would be expanded and re-renovated (keeping the bare bones of the structure) similar to what has been done at Pier C.
:previous:
Deasine, regarding TRANSAT, referring to "their current business" model, do you mean as a charter airline? And that to expand, they would need to start scheduled services? I'm unclear on that. * * * * This, of course, would change the Canadian airline landscape if it is what I think you mean. Or am I off-base? Could you elaborate?

(Great if Pier B gets a complete nose-job!! On that plan, however, Pier C was marked in as it used to be; without the expansion, that's all.)

twoNeurons
Aug 25, 2010, 1:13 AM
That it will definitely be built, sooner or later. In other words, it's not still being considered only a possibility. It's just a matter of when, not if. (According to the plan)

Or the closely related English term "as good as done"