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Yume-sama
Nov 11, 2010, 10:29 PM
Well, with the new Visa requirements they can bet on me not going any time soon :P

I'm surprised they only have one embassy, in Ottawa.

SpongeG
Nov 11, 2010, 10:33 PM
most places only have one embassy they might have multiple consolates though

Yume-sama
Nov 11, 2010, 10:43 PM
most places only have one embassy they might have multiple consolates though

:cool: Yeah, that's what I meant. As far as I can tell they only have one.

Unrelated question, where does one go to get a Chinese tourist visa in Vancouver? I wonder what the processing time is~

SpongeG
Nov 11, 2010, 10:45 PM
saudi arabia only has one in ottawa

do you apply through mail for it via the embassy?

mr.A
Nov 11, 2010, 10:50 PM
The Visa Office is located at 288-1338 West Broadway, Vancouver BC
7. Visa Fees: Single Entry $50CAD Dual Entries $75CAD Multiple Entries(6 months) $100CAD Multiple Entries(1 year) $150CAD.

For U.S.passport (single,dual or multiple entries ) $130CAD

Service Fees: Rush Service (same day pick-up) $50CAD Express Service (2 to 3 working days pick-up) $35CAD

Hot Rod
Nov 12, 2010, 1:05 AM
I think Mr A was talking about Saudi's Embassy in Vancouver.

China has a big embassy in Vancouver on south Granville.

Yume-sama
Nov 12, 2010, 1:44 AM
That address does appear to be the Chinese consulate. They probably have a few locations in Vancouver lol :P

Johnny Aussie
Nov 12, 2010, 1:55 AM
That address does appear to be the Chinese consulate. They probably have a few locations in Vancouver lol :P

Address: 3380 Granville Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6H 3K3
Tel: 604-734-7492

The Visa Office is located at 288-1338 West Broadway, Vancouver BC
Tel: (604) 734 – 0704
Fax: (604) 734 – 0311

giallo
Nov 12, 2010, 2:03 AM
Address: 3380 Granville Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6H 3K3
Tel: 604-734-7492

The Visa Office is located at 288-1338 West Broadway, Vancouver BC
Tel: (604) 734 – 0704
Fax: (604) 734 – 0311


The easiest way to get a Chinese visa is to go across the street from the consulate to Star Travel. It's a HK company the specializes in doing EVERYTHING for you. Just go in with your picture, fill out a piece of paper (they'll even change stuff on it to make the application process 100% successful), and pay an additional $15 for the service. Compare this to being miserable waiting for hours in a stuffy room with a bunch of equally miserable people.

Best $15 I ever spent.

teriyaki
Nov 12, 2010, 5:21 AM
The easiest way to get a Chinese visa is to go across the street from the consulate to Star Travel. It's a HK company the specializes in doing EVERYTHING for you. Just go in with your picture, fill out a piece of paper (they'll even change stuff on it to make the application process 100% successful), and pay an additional $15 for the service. Compare this to being miserable waiting for hours in a stuffy room with a bunch of equally miserable people.

Best $15 I ever spent.

Wish I knew this before I went through the grueling process of getting a Chinese Visa. Took 3 trips, each with a 1-2 hour wait time inside a packed room. Won't ever be doing that again.

Hot Rod
Nov 13, 2010, 11:44 PM
The easiest way to get a Chinese visa is to go across the street from the consulate to Star Travel. It's a HK company the specializes in doing EVERYTHING for you. Just go in with your picture, fill out a piece of paper (they'll even change stuff on it to make the application process 100% successful), and pay an additional $15 for the service. Compare this to being miserable waiting for hours in a stuffy room with a bunch of equally miserable people.

Best $15 I ever spent.

do they also do US people?

Yume-sama
Nov 14, 2010, 12:26 AM
The easiest way to get a Chinese visa is to go across the street from the consulate to Star Travel. It's a HK company the specializes in doing EVERYTHING for you. Just go in with your picture, fill out a piece of paper (they'll even change stuff on it to make the application process 100% successful), and pay an additional $15 for the service. Compare this to being miserable waiting for hours in a stuffy room with a bunch of equally miserable people.

Best $15 I ever spent.

Good advice! I am planning on a tour through China later this year. Well, Beijing / Shanghai / Xian (maybe), Hong Kong and then on to Macau.

Are you sure that's their name, though :P Google can't find them.

nova9
Nov 14, 2010, 1:39 AM
Wish I knew this before I went through the grueling process of getting a Chinese Visa. Took 3 trips, each with a 1-2 hour wait time inside a packed room. Won't ever be doing that again.

last time i went was also the same time as the canadian passport surge in 2007. i waited from 5:30am for the office to open and still was packed.

i recommend everyone getting a chinese visa to get the multiple entry visa. and do it quick, mine was only ready a few hours before my flight!

SpongeG
Nov 16, 2010, 5:43 AM
Emirates, Air Canada battle escalates

November 12, 2010 | 16:09
MARKUS ERMISCH | QMI Agency


In yet another round of Emirates Airline’s battle for more landing slots in Canada, the Middle Eastern airline is resorting to “busting myths.”

The carrier has hired public relations firm Temple Scott Associates Inc, which specializes in government relations, to do the busting for them.

On Friday, the PR firm, fired off a two-page press release, packed with facts and figures aimed at attacking seven “myths” spread during the increasingly acrimonious battle between the United Arab Emirates carrier on the one hand and Ottawa and Air Canada on the other.

“While Emirates respects the government’s recent decision to deny additional flights, we must rebut the myths of Air Canada in its attempt to deny choice to Canadian consumers and protect itself from fair and reasonable competition,” the release says.

Emirates, currently restricted to three flights a week from Dubai to Toronto, has been trying for years to fly daily into some of Canada’s largest airports, including Calgary. Ottawa has denied the request for more landing slots, considerably chilling the relationship between the two countries. Air Canada, meanwhile, has attacked Emirates, claiming that the airline is subsidized and seeking to divert traffic over its hub in Dubai.

Not so, says Emirates.

“By securing daily flights to Toronto, Calgary and Vancouver, Emirates is seeking to fill significant unmet two-way demand between Canada and Dubai, the Middle East, Africa and the Asian subcontinent, all regions for the most part ignored by Air Canada,” says Emirates.

People travelling to these regions from Canada currently have to fly through major European airports, including Frankfurt, the major hub for Air Canada partner Lufthansa. Demand for service to Asia and Africa is high, as Canada is home to many immigrants who regularly visit these parts of the world. Demand for direct service is also high between Calgary and Dubai because of oil and gas industry links.

“(Air Canada) would rather its passengers be diverted through hubs in Europe to access these destinations, no matter how inconvenient, costly or time-consuming,” Emirates says. “Why should Canadian consumers be dictated to by the narrow interests of Air Canada and its fellow Star Alliance member Lufthansa?”

The government of Alberta has said it supports direct flights between Calgary and Dubai. Former Calgary mayor Dave Bronconnier, too, has spoken in support of the service.

...

http://money.canoe.ca/money/business/canada/archives/2010/11/20101112-160934.html

SpongeG
Nov 16, 2010, 5:46 AM
skymark to fly to vancouver? the A380?!!

Skymark intends for the A380s to be profitable in the first year of operation, he said. Future destinations will include Los Angeles, Honolulu, Vancouver, Melbourne, Bangkok, Singapore and Rome, he said.

Skymark May Order 15 A380s in International Expansion
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-12/skymark-may-order-15-a380s-in-international-expansion.html

SpongeG
Nov 16, 2010, 5:50 AM
Lufthansa S11 Chicago & Vancouver Aircraft changes as of 10NOV10

Frankfurt – Vancouver Airbus A340-600 to continue operation in Summer 2011, replacing plan of Boeing 747-400 operation

http://airlineroute.net/2010/11/10/lh-ordyvr-s11/

SpongeG
Nov 16, 2010, 5:53 AM
YVR wins award of excellence for its concessions

http://www.vancouversun.com/3808643.bin
YVR has gone up against some of North America's top airports and soared to the top.
Photograph by: Les Bazso, PNG

VANCOUVER -- YVR has gone up against some of North America's top airports and soared to the top.

The Vancouver International Airport beat out 140 other airports to win the Richard A. Griesbach Award of Excellence winner in the 2010 Airport Concessions Contest. The purpose of the Airports Council International-North America contest is to inspire creativity in the industry and to recognize innovative and outstanding airport concessions.

Contest organizers cited YVR's 167 shops, services and restaurants and its series of 10 zoned streets and plazas that showcase regions of B.C. and feature artwork, water-features, aquariums, and unique interior design.

Concourse C at YVR placed second in the best specialty retail category for small- and medium-sized airports.

...

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/wins+award+excellence+concessions/3808640/story.html#ixzz15QE1ydCV

twoNeurons
Nov 16, 2010, 6:12 AM
skymark to fly to vancouver? the A380?!!



Skymark May Order 15 A380s in International Expansion
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-12/skymark-may-order-15-a380s-in-international-expansion.html

Wow... I really don't know about their plan. They only fly 737s right now. This would be the equivalent of WestJet suddenly saying: "We're ordering A380s and going to start flying them to compete with Air Canada"

nova9
Nov 16, 2010, 6:40 AM
YVR wins award of excellence for its concessions

YVR has gone up against some of North America's top airports and soared to the top.
Photograph by: Les Bazso, PNG

VANCOUVER -- YVR has gone up against some of North America's top airports and soared to the top.

The Vancouver International Airport beat out 140 other airports to win the Richard A. Griesbach Award of Excellence winner in the 2010 Airport Concessions Contest. The purpose of the Airports Council International-North America contest is to inspire creativity in the industry and to recognize innovative and outstanding airport concessions.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/wins+award+excellence+concessions/3808640/story.html#ixzz15QE1ydCV

not for nothing but i posted this last week. :)

teriyaki
Nov 16, 2010, 7:58 AM
Wow... I really don't know about their plan. They only fly 737s right now. This would be the equivalent of WestJet suddenly saying: "We're ordering A380s and going to start flying them to compete with Air Canada"

Definitely an odd move for such a small company. Their current fleet is only 15 planes, and they focus on low-fares to domestic destinations. Now they're suddenly doing an about face, and trying to tackle the business/premium international market. Ambitious plans.

SpongeG
Nov 16, 2010, 1:10 PM
not for nothing but i posted this last week. :)

and now it has a pretty picture to look at :D

vanlaw
Nov 20, 2010, 3:35 AM
Apparently allowing Emirates greater landing rights in Canada would have cost "tens of thousands of Canadian jobs". I'd really like to see the math they are using to come up with that. Fear mongering at its best.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/jobs-at-risk-in-uae-airline-feud-tories-say/article1806138/

In Lisbon for a NATO summit, Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon said the negotiations for the landing rights broke down because Canadians would have lost jobs.

“I made it perfectly clear that we’re not prepared to put Canadian workers out of their jobs by allowing a subsidized foreign airline to literally flood the Canadian market,” he said.

And in the House of Commons, Government House Leader John Baird suggested Canada’s airline industry would have been decimated: “It would have cost Canada literally tens of thousands of jobs and was not in Canadians’ best interest,” he said. “That is why we said no.”

Johnny Aussie
Nov 23, 2010, 5:02 AM
Sorry... completely off aviation topic... but...

Ack.. just saw it is -5 at YVR...in November!?

Hope it warms up (a little) by Christmas!!!

Gotta be good news for the skiing though... cannot wait!

What is the mountain du jour this year?? I have been reading a lot about some of the smaller interior resorts upgrading and expanding.

MalcolmTucker
Nov 23, 2010, 5:15 AM
Kicking Horse has matured, and was great around the holidays last year. For a younger resort Revelstoke is pretty awesome too - but a bit rougher on the accommodation and town scene.

trofirhen
Nov 23, 2010, 5:54 AM
Apparently allowing Emirates greater landing rights in Canada would have cost "tens of thousands of Canadian jobs". I'd really like to see the math they are using to come up with that. Fear mongering at its best.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/jobs-at-risk-in-uae-airline-feud-tories-say/article1806138/

In Lisbon for a NATO summit, Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon said the negotiations for the landing rights broke down because Canadians would have lost jobs.

“I made it perfectly clear that we’re not prepared to put Canadian workers out of their jobs by allowing a subsidized foreign airline to literally flood the Canadian market,” he said.

And in the House of Commons, Government House Leader John Baird suggested Canada’s airline industry would have been decimated: “It would have cost Canada literally tens of thousands of jobs and was not in Canadians’ best interest,” he said. “That is why we said no.”
:previous:
I saw that too, and remember wondering the exact same thing. Sounded like week-old fish to me, (or rather, smelled like it).

In addition, I was speaking to a senior YVR marketing official about Emirates apprently only wanting open access to Toronto and the Vancouver and Calgary routes requested being a ficticious red herring. "Don't believe everything you read in the papers," he told me, but said it was all very hush-hush, and that he could not reveal more detail.

All rather intriguing, to say the least.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 23, 2010, 6:17 AM
^
Are his initials JK?

But this has just become a huge load of BS from all sides involved. God only knows (like the YVR guy says.. all very hush hush - oooh how mysterious) what really is going on. One thing that is clear is EK is obviously playing some sort of sand box game. The more and more I hear about this the more I am actually siding with the Canadian Government (heaven forbid)!

SpongeG
Nov 23, 2010, 7:44 AM
:previous:
I saw that too, and remember wondering the exact same thing. Sounded like week-old fish to me, (or rather, smelled like it).

In addition, I was speaking to a senior YVR marketing official about Emirates apprently only wanting open access to Toronto and the Vancouver and Calgary routes requested being a ficticious red herring. "Don't believe everything you read in the papers," he told me, but said it was all very hush-hush, and that he could not reveal more detail.

All rather intriguing, to say the least.

my friend had two job interviews with emirates a few years ago - they were going to base him in vancouver but he would have to go get trained in dubai for a while and than maybe go to toronto until he could come back to vancouver but he didn't get the job or beyond two interviews

twoNeurons
Nov 23, 2010, 7:48 AM
Looks like Air Canada is finally starting to promote its new Haneda route. There's some great deals on flights to HND and NRT.

You can get a return ticket for around $950 return.

I was also thinking about this route a bit more. Air Canada is the ONLY North American Star Alliance airline that has a landing spot at Haneda.

American Airlines is OneWorld (1 slot)
Delta is Skyteam (2 slots)
Hawaiian Airlines is independent (though it code shares with United)

This means that if United or Continental or US Airways wants to sell a Haneda flight, they have to put their passengers through Vancouver.

ORD (Chicago) - YVR - HND is one possible routing. True, most would probably choose the direct flight to Narita, but if that route's full, or they want more flexibility on the return time the only other option is codeshare through Air Canada and Vancouver.

AC got lucky when United/Continental didn't win one of the Haneda slots. It also means, that for the time being, Vancouver has a better chance of filling its 2x daily flights to Tokyo.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 23, 2010, 8:19 AM
my friend had two job interviews with emirates a few years ago - they were going to base him in vancouver but he would have to go get trained in dubai for a while and than maybe go to toronto until he could come back to vancouver but he didn't get the job or beyond two interviews

Sounds like more spin from them.
As far as I know, they only operate from a Dubai base. I am not aware of Emirates having any overseas bases (at least for pilots). Correct me if I am wrong.
For example, considering how much flying they do in and out of Australia, all Emirates in-flight crew are, apparently, based in DXB (that was according to a flight attendant who was from Perth on a recent MEL flight).
Also, funny how they would be hiring for a base before they even have landing rights. Maybe that is the reason why he did not get the job.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 23, 2010, 8:23 AM
Looks like Air Canada is finally starting to promote its new Haneda route. There's some great deals on flights to HND and NRT.

I was also thinking about this route a bit more. Air Canada is the ONLY North American Star Alliance airline that has a landing spot at Haneda.

This means that if United or Continental or US Airways wants to sell a Haneda flight, they have to put their passengers through Vancouver.

AC got lucky when United/Continental didn't win one of the Haneda slots. It also means, that for the time being, Vancouver has a better chance of filling its 2x daily flights to Tokyo.

Well hopefully then AC can milk this before any other NA * Alliance carrier does obtain some slots.

I wish AC all the success with this new route.

SpongeG
Nov 23, 2010, 10:17 AM
Sounds like more spin from them.
As far as I know, they only operate from a Dubai base. I am not aware of Emirates having any overseas bases (at least for pilots). Correct me if I am wrong.
For example, considering how much flying they do in and out of Australia, all Emirates in-flight crew are, apparently, based in DXB (that was according to a flight attendant who was from Perth on a recent MEL flight).
Also, funny how they would be hiring for a base before they even have landing rights. Maybe that is the reason why he did not get the job.

yeah i don't know he was applying to work for them and I was jealous cause he was going to go to dubai to live and work for like two years than he could work in london uk and all these places and I was like :hell:

I don't know if the position was ever intended to be in vancouver - it could have been toronto or something i was too jealous to discuss it with him :haha: and pissed that he might move and leave me here :( my best friend gone :( haha

anyway he had a couple interviews and I don't know what they were for i don't think it was flight attendant but like airport desk crew

he is certainly no pilot - i've heard they and applies to all airlines need to hire locals for some positions in Canadian airports - when i was in england flying with delta an american airline all the airport staff was british

I know a guy who works for united (i think it is - its one of the american airlines anyway) but he is a local Canadian and works at YVR and has for years

deasine
Nov 24, 2010, 12:05 AM
Well they have to have some sort of staff crew at the local destination. That being said, many airlines generally contract ground handling services out to different companies, such as Servisair and Handlex, which saves the airline quite a bit of money as they would only need to hire a handful of others to manage the contracting company. Either that, or they contract it to other airlines who are part of the same air alliance. For instance, Air Canada handles all of Air New Zealand and Air China's ground crew staff in YVR. Air New Zealand and Air China also only has a handful of agents who overlook Air Canada's ground crew work as well as prepare for their flights. British Airways and Cathay Pacific have separate pools of ground crew agents, but some work for both airlines. Cathay Pacific, I know, has a separate team in Vancouver as they have many flights to HKG, and flights to JFK.

Next time you fly, check the uniform of the person checking you in. If it's the same uniform of the person at the information counter, or someone of a more higher authority position, then you know you are being served by the airline ground crew team. If not, then the airline contracts ground crew agents to another company.

Rusty Gull
Nov 24, 2010, 2:37 AM
Strong perspective from a Canadian lawyer living in the UAE...

Oh Canada, humility is a virtue

The landing rights spat comes at the expense of robust investments by UAE carriers that will create jobs
By Taha Tawawala, Special to Gulf News

The recent and evolving “spat” with the UAE focuses on the destructive course of action pursued by Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s government at the expense of the interests of the vast majority of Canadians. This spat illuminates the Harper government position with respect to the value it places on the UAE and Arab world, corrodes decades of positive goodwill built up by Canada in the international arena, and damages existing and potential trade ties with important trading partners in a region bursting with opportunity.

Since the First World War Canada positively contributed to international relations and developed a reputation as a nation with admirable qualities and a sense of justice, fairness and a role for the betterment of the world. Harper has swept most of this goodwill away in four short years.

The UAE-Canada dispute regarding landing rights in Canada for UAE airliners and its continuing fallout crystallises the audacity of Harper’s attack on Canada’s past ideals and future prospects internationally.

As indicated in recent media reports, the UAE’s national carriers, Emirates and Etihad, have been engaged in negotiations for five years with the Canadian government for additional landing rights (At present each carrier has three flights per week to Toronto). Since 2001 or so, the UAE has provided a military base for Canada to support its efforts in Afghanistan and has evolved into Canada’s largest trading partner in the region — according to Bloomberg.com.

“The UAE is the largest trade partner with Canada in the Middle East and North Africa, with more than $1.5 billion (Dh5.5 billion) of business in 2008”.
Furthermore, the vast majority of such trade is Canadian exports to the UAE — that is to say, the UAE is running a fairly significant trade deficit with Canada and, by doing so, putting more jobs on the ground in Canada and expanding the scope for Canadian business in this region.

Since its carriers started flying directly to Canada, the UAE has enthusiastically expressed greater willingness to expand and encourage commercial and cultural ties, and has become socially engaged with Canadians at all levels.

The Harper government’s position with respect to negotiations with the UAE was essentially to stall, frustrate and ignore the UAE’s requests for expanding the aviation relationship. This negotiating posture took place despite the fact that, according to The Economist, “such an expansion could potentially create 2,800 jobs across Canada and generate up to $480 million in additional economic activity [and] the premiers of Ontario, Alberta and BC support the proposal.”

Clearly competition to Air Canada and greater access for Canadians to a growing region would inevitably lead to greater benefits for all, especially Canadian businesses and consumers.

For five years the UAE was patiently negotiating with the Canadian government. However, the counter offers for landing rights were so pathetic that it was deemed insulting to the UAE.

Harper forgot that the UAE had provided Canada with a base for nine years with no compensation, the UAE had encouraged its citizens to go to Canada for post-secondary education and pay the international fees and costs related thereto, and the UAE was ready, willing and able to invest vast quantities of money to push trade between the countries forward.

Disdain for even diplomats

Most of all, Harper forgot, or did not care, that the UAE and other emerging nations like it have pride and self respect and don’t want to be “taken for a ride”. Humility is not a value that the Harper government seems to promote as is demonstrated by the disdain with which it treated the UAE’s requests and its diplomatic staff, including the UAE Ambassador to Canada without the general courtesies reserved for diplomatic staff.

The Harper government is willing to protect Air Canada from a marginal effect on its business to maintain the status quo, at the expense of robust and energetic investments by the UAE carriers, which would create a multitude of new jobs, opportunities and options for consumers.

I am a Canadian, born and raised. For over three years I have lived in Dubai and seen the potential in this region. I have learned that the world is bigger, more vibrant and dynamic and the opportunities immense, not just in the UAE — but the whole of the Middle East, Africa and the Indian subcontinent.
It seems reasonable for the Canadian government to encourage its citizens and businesses to reach out to this region and build commercial, political and social ties — not to limit or restrict the development of such ties over as petty an issue as expanded landing rights.

Canada itself, especially the bigger cities, is a multicultural hub with many people still connected to their roots in these Asian regions (for example, Lebanon, India, Pakistan and Iran). It would be beneficial for the Canadian government to exploit the advantages afforded by the diversity of its citizenry and capitalise on the prospects related to such peoples’ connections with their home regions.

Stephen Harper’s world is limited by his vision. Air Canada’s business is protected by its connections. At the end of the day, if Harper doesn’t accommodate the reasonable requests of the UAE, the average Canadian will lose out on golden opportunities in this region.
People will respect you more Harper if you acknowledge you made a mistake and extend the hand of friendship again to the people of the UAE.

Taha Tawawala is a Canadian lawyer based in the UAE.

SpongeG
Nov 24, 2010, 6:31 AM
Well they have to have some sort of staff crew at the local destination. That being said, many airlines generally contract ground handling services out to different companies, such as Servisair and Handlex, which saves the airline quite a bit of money as they would only need to hire a handful of others to manage the contracting company. Either that, or they contract it to other airlines who are part of the same air alliance. For instance, Air Canada handles all of Air New Zealand and Air China's ground crew staff in YVR. Air New Zealand and Air China also only has a handful of agents who overlook Air Canada's ground crew work as well as prepare for their flights. British Airways and Cathay Pacific have separate pools of ground crew agents, but some work for both airlines. Cathay Pacific, I know, has a separate team in Vancouver as they have many flights to HKG, and flights to JFK.

Next time you fly, check the uniform of the person checking you in. If it's the same uniform of the person at the information counter, or someone of a more higher authority position, then you know you are being served by the airline ground crew team. If not, then the airline contracts ground crew agents to another company.

yah i don't fly ever so :haha: but i know i've looked at the careers site for YVR many times and they all funnell you to a company that deals with a lot fo the services so its kind of sucks cause you don't get some of the great travel benefits when you are employed by the airline

whatnext
Nov 24, 2010, 6:51 AM
Strong perspective from a Canadian lawyer living in the UAE...

Uh, yeah, a really unbiased view from a "Canadian" lawyer who's been living in the UAE for three years and includes UAE government entities among his clients:
http://www.luqmanlegal.com/legal_team.htm

It seems that some folks just can't adjust to the fact that with commodity prices on an steady upward upward path, Canada is no longer content to be just a polite doormat for foreign companies. I love the Economist quote - the same rag that stated "Being the world’s largest producer of potash, an ingredient of fertiliser, is hardly strategic." Yeah, food isn't strategic.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 24, 2010, 6:59 AM
Uh, yeah, a really unbiased view from a "Canadian" lawyer who's been living in the UAE for three years and includes UAE government entities among his clients:
http://www.luqmanlegal.com/legal_team.htm

It seems that some folks just can't adjust to the fact that with commodity prices on an steady upward upward path, Canada is no longer content to be just a polite doormat for foreign companies. I love the Economist quote - the same rag that stated "Being the world’s largest producer of potash, an ingredient of fertiliser, is hardly strategic." Yeah, food isn't strategic.

^ Yeah, maybe Emirates (the airline) paid him to publish that.

EK can say whatever it wants and try and get what it wants, but when it doesn't, they resort to cry baby tactics.

I am seriously getting sick and tired of hearing about this issue. Time to move on.

trofirhen
Nov 24, 2010, 4:18 PM
^ Yeah, maybe Emirates (the airline) paid him to publish that.

EK can say whatever it wants and try and get what it wants, but when it doesn't, they resort to cry baby tactics.

I am seriously getting sick and tired of hearing about this issue. Time to move on.
:previous:
Agreed. I'm happy to move on, BUT .... first, I want to know if the added presence of Emirates in Canada will REALLY take away thousands of jobs ... or add them. Let's figure that one out first. Please

MalcolmTucker
Nov 24, 2010, 5:18 PM
:previous:
Agreed. I'm happy to move on, BUT .... first, I want to know if the added presence of Emirates in Canada will REALLY take away thousands of jobs ... or add them. Let's figure that one out first. Please

The Air Canada (or another Canadian airline) doesn't think it is worth it to run 6 flights a week to UAE but the UAE wants more flights should tell you all you need to know. It isn't about connecting UAE to Canada.

Yume-sama
Nov 24, 2010, 6:00 PM
What kind of landing rights does Canada have in the UAE?

Does Air Canada fly to Dubai, India, etc. from Toronto?

I think no connection to India is a bigger problem than to UAE.

MalcolmTucker
Nov 24, 2010, 6:10 PM
What kind of landing rights does Canada have in the UAE?

Does Air Canada fly to Dubai, India, etc. from Toronto?

I think no connection to India is a bigger problem than to UAE.

Canada has reciprocal rights, 6 flights a week, 3 flights per week max for any one airline subject to veto by the other country. [link] (http://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/doc.php?did=185&lang=eng)

Yume-sama
Nov 24, 2010, 6:44 PM
Just a question that I've been wondering since the (appropriate) outrage of the Americans at TSA screening procedures; the only place I have noticed body scans in Canadian airports is when you are going to America. I have not seen them in use domestically, yet (although I'm sure that's coming). When you are flying to the USA from Canada, are the screeners CATSA or TSA? Are they bound by Canadian laws and regulations, or American? Is there such a thing as an "enhanced" pat-down in Canada? The CATSA website doesn't really provide much detail.

The last time I went to the USA, I was going to Las Vegas. I was wearing shorts and a t-shirt, nothing else, and I did not set off the metal detector. Then they tried to usher me in to the body scan, I rejected, and they said I'd get a "pat down". I looked at them and said "Really?" - it was clear as day nothing could possibly be under my clothes. So he looked me over and said "OK, go on..."

twoNeurons
Nov 24, 2010, 7:00 PM
yah i don't fly ever so :haha: but i know i've looked at the careers site for YVR many times and they all funnell you to a company that deals with a lot fo the services so its kind of sucks cause you don't get some of the great travel benefits when you are employed by the airline

The benefits aren't as great as they used to be. In addition, there have been cutbacks as well.

A friend has worked at Aeroplan for 10+ years and new hires there don't get any flight benefits as Aeroplan is not run (directly) by Air Canada any more.


When you do get benefits, you fly stand-by and other passengers who are on stand-by get priority.
You still pay all the taxes ( or at least a portion ) which is pretty high these days for AC.
If you're flying overseas where there is only one flight daily, you may be stuck waiting a day or two to travel.
Flights nowadays are regularly overbooked and are more efficient (financially). Many flights fly full. Less empty seats.
If you're using one of you "buddy" passes, they have to travel with you. One good thing is that it doesn't HAVE to be only family, like some airlines do.
You still need to take time off from work, and since popular times to fly are around stat holidays, you need to generally take more time off and it's harder to travel in busy times.
It's hard to plan for stay in a hotel or book an event, if you're not sure when you're going to arrive.


In short, it's great for frequent flights like to San Francisco or Calgary, but on the long haul flights, being on "employee standy-by" isn't what it used to be.

In addition to all this, wages aren't as high as other sectors because this perceived benefit attracts people who care less about the money and more about so-called "free flights"

Maybe someone who works for AC (or another major airline) can comment on all this, but this is the general feeling i get.

A friend who used to work for American Airlines says that he took a higher paying job working for YVR and his wage increase more than makes up for the "cheap flights" he used to get.

He did admit that it can be nice for someone who's young and unattached.

Chikinlittle
Nov 24, 2010, 7:47 PM
Just a question that I've been wondering since the (appropriate) outrage of the Americans at TSA screening procedures; the only place I have noticed body scans in Canadian airports is when you are going to America. I have not seen them in use domestically, yet (although I'm sure that's coming). When you are flying to the USA from Canada, are the screeners CATSA or TSA? Are they bound by Canadian laws and regulations, or American? Is there such a thing as an "enhanced" pat-down in Canada? The CATSA website doesn't really provide much detail.

The last time I went to the USA, I was going to Las Vegas. I was wearing shorts and a t-shirt, nothing else, and I did not set off the metal detector. Then they tried to usher me in to the body scan, I rejected, and they said I'd get a "pat down". I looked at them and said "Really?" - it was clear as day nothing could possibly be under my clothes. So he looked me over and said "OK, go on..."

There is now a body scanner at domestic security at YVR.

Yume-sama
Nov 24, 2010, 7:55 PM
Oh. Good. I've always been a fan of security theatre.

trofirhen
Nov 24, 2010, 8:14 PM
The Air Canada (or another Canadian airline) doesn't think it is worth it to run 6 flights a week to UAE but the UAE wants more flights should tell you all you need to know. It isn't about connecting UAE to Canada.
:previous:
I've never been good at "second-guessing" or "reading between the lines."

That Emirates wants greater access to Canada, but that it has nothing to do with connecting the UAE to Canada is supposed to mean something.

In plain language, tell me please: WHAT ??

Yume-sama
Nov 24, 2010, 8:36 PM
It's apparently part of some grand conspiracy to make Emirates the "World" airline by funnelling traffic to DXB from elsewhere, enticing people with superior service, equipment, and connections, at a lower cost.

Diabolical. And they would have gotten away with it too, if not for those... :P

twoNeurons
Nov 24, 2010, 8:36 PM
:previous:
I've never been good at "second-guessing" or "reading between the lines."

That Emirates wants greater access to Canada, but that it has nothing to do with connecting the UAE to Canada is supposed to mean something.

In plain language, tell me please: WHAT ??

It means that Air Canada feels like demand to Dubai is sufficient, but feels like they would be undercut by Dubai for India flights that hubbed in Dubai.

Reading further between the lines, it probably means Air Canada WANTS to fly direct to Indian destinations, likely using 787s they're waiting for (or use 777-ERs on this route and 787s elsewhere) and a discount carrier to Dubai would affect the viability such a route.

Air Canada wants a direct flight to 1 or 2 major Indian cities and wants to have perhaps a future Indian Hub for the country in Delhi or Mumbai.

Limiting Emirate to the current number of flights means Dubai can not serve as a hub for India.

golog
Nov 24, 2010, 8:37 PM
The op-ed article was probably part of the campaign the UAE they hired a publicist for.

I'm sure they want access to the Canadian domestic market in addition to having more flights between the countries. On the popular routes within Canada like Vancouver-Toronto, there is a huge markup and little choice for consumers.

The question is how much access is fair, and by what reason do we restrict access. The problem that comes up even before that is that the process is not open or transparent. We don't know what the offers are, and how the decisions are reached.

There's big money involved, and it comes down to arbitrary decisions. I could care less if the UAE gets more landing rights, I just want to hear the arguments how and why this surplus gets divided up the way it does. If spending 30% more up front saves me money later, I can be convinced. If all it does is feed into the bonus check of some key political donor, I won't want any part of that. If it were an honest deal, they would feel free to discuss it in public.

If they were worried about domestic jobs in aerospace, they wouldn't allow overflight by planes with shoddy maintenance performed by the lowest bidder abroad. Those jobs are higher value than ones as stewardesses, and there is a legitimate appeal to national security/sovereignty/safety.

Yume-sama
Nov 24, 2010, 8:43 PM
Of course, Emirates just gets around having half the amount of landing slots they want, by using a plane that can seat double the people lol ;)

trofirhen
Nov 24, 2010, 8:57 PM
It means that Air Canada feels like demand to Dubai is sufficient, but feels like they would be undercut by Dubai for India flights that hubbed in Dubai.

Reading further between the lines, it probably means Air Canada WANTS to fly direct to Indian destinations, likely using 787s they're waiting for (or use 777-ERs on this route and 787s elsewhere) and a discount carrier to Dubai would affect the viability such a route.

Air Canada wants a direct flight to 1 or 2 major Indian cities and wants to have perhaps a future Indian Hub for the country in Delhi or Mumbai.

Limiting Emirate to the current number of flights means Dubai can not serve as a hub for India.
:previous:
According to a contact at YVR, Vancouver - Delhi (and presumably Mumbai) is coming up. It was to have started in 2008, but the recession postponed it. Now it seems back on again.

Therefore ... if Air India (or Air Canada) get rights to one or two cities in India, as seems very possible now, does that mean that EK would not be interested in YVR any more because they can't "milk" it?

And what's all this about EK only wanted unlimited access to Toronto all along, and that YVR and YYC were never part of the bargain??? What's going on?

Furthermore, even if EK were to get more landing rights in Canada (presumably increased frequency at YYZ, and flights to YVR and YYC,) how would this cost Canada "thousands of jobs" as the government claims??

I don't get this conundrum at all. Oh well, I've always been called simple-minded, and maybe I am. But if not, can someone out there clarify this weird puzzle for me, please?
Thank you. :koko:

deasine
Nov 24, 2010, 9:34 PM
When you do get benefits, you fly stand-by and other passengers who are on stand-by get priority.
You still pay all the taxes ( or at least a portion ) which is pretty high these days for AC.
If you're flying overseas where there is only one flight daily, you may be stuck waiting a day or two to travel.
Flights nowadays are regularly overbooked and are more efficient (financially). Many flights fly full. Less empty seats.
If you're using one of you "buddy" passes, they have to travel with you. One good thing is that it doesn't HAVE to be only family, like some airlines do.
You still need to take time off from work, and since popular times to fly are around stat holidays, you need to generally take more time off and it's harder to travel in busy times.
It's hard to plan for stay in a hotel or book an event, if you're not sure when you're going to arrive.In short, it's great for frequent flights like to San Francisco or Calgary, but on the long haul flights, being on "employee standy-by" isn't what it used to be.

Oh wow... big deal. I can't believe people are complaining about this. Most other international airlines have these policies for their staff. Unless you are an extra crew member on board, you are on standby. And you are on standby based on seniority and date of join. This is what you get for having such discounted S-Class fares.

The regular flier should always have priority over discounted staff airfare.

twoNeurons
Nov 24, 2010, 9:42 PM
Oh wow... big deal. I can't believe people are complaining about this. Most other international airlines have these policies for their staff. Unless you are an extra crew member on board, you are on standby. And you are on standby based on seniority and date of join. This is what you get for having such discounted S-Class fares.

The regular flier should always have priority over discounted staff airfare.

Just a note, that wasn't a complaint against Air Canada or any airline specifically. It just happens that I'm only familiar with Air Canada's policies. Sorry if I wasn't clear that I was stating specifics about generalities which apply to most airlines.

It was just a reality that people have to consider when evaluating whether the flight benefits are useful to them or not. It's definitely not as cheap or as nice as it "used" to be.

As I mentioned, a friend who worked for American Airlines felt similarly.

twoNeurons
Nov 24, 2010, 10:04 PM
:previous:
According to a contact at YVR, Vancouver - Delhi (and presumably Mumbai) is coming up. It was to have started in 2008, but the recession postponed it. Now it seems back on again.

Therefore ... if Air India (or Air Canada) get rights to one or two cities in India, as seems very possible now, does that mean that EK would not be interested in YVR any more because they can't "milk" it?


I don't think it's a matter of whether EK is interested or not. They want in whether there are direct routes or not. It's obviously better for them to be in before a direct flight is in place so they can compete directly with their service, newer fleet, and bargain basement prices.

However, from evidence elsewhere, they would likely be able to undercut a direct flight due to lower expenses of flying through their home country.

Business travelers to India would prefer direct, but a lot of the traffic to India will be family, to start. In addition, as I doubt Air Canada would fly direct to smaller secondary cities in India, there would be an advantage EK would have in that they DO fly direct to smaller cities.

They also have loyalty within India as they inexpensively serve the world to India. They have over 10 destinations in India.

I think, though, that Emirates is fighting Canada so hard on this not because they really care about the Canadian market. They probably don't REALLY care about Canada. However, they know that even if one relatively insignificant nation denies them additional landing spots, it gives others reason to do the same... namely the USA.

We've even seen that argument here... "if Emirates can work in Australia, why can't it work here?"

I'm not saying that they should be allowed, or that they shouldn't. I'm just stating that there seems to me more at stake here than Emirates wanting to serve Canada's market.

As for me, I find it all very interesting.

giallo
Nov 26, 2010, 9:19 AM
Good advice! I am planning on a tour through China later this year. Well, Beijing / Shanghai / Xian (maybe), Hong Kong and then on to Macau.

Are you sure that's their name, though :P Google can't find them.

Go to www.canadacts.com

deasine
Nov 26, 2010, 9:44 AM
New tour entrant prepares for takeoff
Maple Fun Travel to offer packages to Japan in 2011
26 November 2010
National Post

A lack of competition across the Pacific this year has buoyed Air Canada's earnings in recent months, but it is also attracting a number of new competitors to the market.

One tour operator, Maple Fun Travel Inc., being launched by Jacques Kavafian, a former Bay Street analyst, aims to begin selling packaged tours between Canada and Japan next year.

Maple Fun Travel is being built through the acquisitions of Vancouver-based Maple Fun Tours Ltd. and Tokyo-based Ryoko Club, providing a sales force in both countries.

The company intends to begin selling packaged tours on one dedicated chartered plane, four times a week between Vancouver and Osaka and Nagano, Japan, before expanding to Montreal in the fall, Mr. Kavafian said. All the funding is in place to begin flying in June 2011, he said.

But Mr. Kavafian would not say who would be operating the aircraft or what sort of plane would be used, only that an announcement was imminent.

At least one operator, Transat A.T., had been competing for the business, but others, like Calgary-based Enerjet, had dropped out, an industry source said.

Maple Fun Travel will bring together a disparate group of players, including WestJet cofounder Mark Hill as its chief operating officer and former Air Canada executive Robert Peterson as its chief financial officer. Both men worked at WestJet and Air Canada during their high-profile spying dispute a few years ago.

The men have put their differences aside to try to take advantage of the opportunities Air Canada has been capitalizing on this year to Asia due to a lack of competition.

In the first nine months of the year, the country's largest carrier has seen a 31% increase in passenger revenue on its Pacific routes, in particular to China, on the back of a 22% increase in traffic and a 7% improvement in yields. The third quarter proved especially strong with yields up 17%and passenger revenue up nearly 38%.

By contrast, Air Canada's system-wide passenger revenue has been up 10% year over year in the first nine months of the year, with traffic up 8.4% and yields up only 1.6%. The company has seen improved demand on almost every route, with the exception of Korea, and added new service to Tokyo and more frequency to China from the West.

While the Pacific has certainly been a boon, Air Canada chief executive Calin Rovinescu has warned about increased competition on the routes in the months ahead.

"The U.S. carriers, particularly, are adding a lot of capacity, which typically translates into reduced yields," he said in an interview this month.

But it is not just U.S. carriers that are eyeing the Pacific. Ontario financier James Hultquist-Morrissey also has plans to launch a charter airline to South Korea, XPO Airlines, in the spring of 2011.

(National Post, 2010)

Johnny Aussie
Nov 26, 2010, 10:32 AM
^ So I guess this is what was Canadian Pacific Travel Inc.? I was actually wondering about this recently. So at least we know it will be Osaka and Nagano (I wonder if they meant Nagoya as Nagano does not actually have a commercial airport).

I would imagine Montreal will be for the fall colours.

Their first press release a few months ago also mentioned Calgary too, so not sure if that will still be happening or not.

I see Air Transat was mentioned as a possible carrier. Wonder why Enerjet was in there, unless they were planning on getting some larger aircraft.

On Enerjet's website they mention they are "restructuring" so I doubt they will be offering any winter charters. A bit late now anyway.

So I guess, as they say, stay tuned.

PS - sorry Trofirhen - more talk about Japan ;)

twoNeurons
Nov 26, 2010, 6:24 PM
Considering many Japanese travel on packages, 10-day fixed, tour groups, I'd imagine that if they can get a foothold into that industry and offer open-jaw between Calgary and Vancouver, they'll survive.

The idea of a 6-day trip is appealing: a couple of days in Vancouver/Whistler, a Rail or Bus trip through to the Rockies for a few nights and then return from Calgary.

Though, this kind of trip happens now, it's just all on scheduled airlines.

Yume-sama
Nov 26, 2010, 6:34 PM
Considering many Japanese travel on packages, 10-day fixed, tour groups, I'd imagine that if they can get a foothold into that industry and offer open-jaw between Calgary and Vancouver, they'll survive.

The idea of a 6-day trip is appealing: a couple of days in Vancouver/Whistler, a Rail or Bus trip through to the Rockies for a few nights and then return from Calgary.

Though, this kind of trip happens now, it's just all on scheduled airlines.

That's so true. A trip just isn't possible if it's not know what exactly will be happening down to the minute.

So stressful!

Johnny Aussie
Nov 26, 2010, 11:42 PM
Not sure if the Japanese are really into cruises.. but... downunder, they are REALLY selling the Rocky Mountaineer/Alaska Cruise combos. Every travel section I read always has at least a few full page ads selling these types of packages. I wonder if the Maple Fun group will be doing something similar.

Yume-sama
Nov 27, 2010, 12:22 AM
Somewhat. Yokohama is quite a big port for cruise ships, though I couldn't tell you how many Japanese people actually go on these cruises. There are certain cultural stereotypes which are true. Australians and Germans love to come here, rent a car, drive through the mountains, camp, hike, etc. Japanese people love order and groups. Particularly if they can get a chance to lineup in an orderly line once in awhile to take a picture :P. Rather "controlled" adventure, instead of... spontaneous adventure. One of the big money makers is Japanese people flying here, busing through the mountains, and flying back to YVR from YYC.

And they seem to congregate wherever there is a Fairmont lol. Hotel Vancouver, Lake Louise, Banff, Calgary...

I mean, even our JTB is in the basement of the Hotel Vancouver.

usog
Nov 27, 2010, 2:00 AM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/an-ominous-flight-pattern-canadians-opting-for-us-airports/article1815784/
Always amusing to see articles on this topic.

Yume-sama
Nov 27, 2010, 2:15 AM
In general it will almost always be cheaper to go to the USA. But I have to wonder if it is worth peoples time. Though, people have always been *really* bad at doing the math. For example, a friend of mine was coming home from South Dakota where he is in university. He flew to Montana, and then drove the 8+ hours to Calgary. Cost effective? I suppose. Time effective? No...

But when a good percentage of the population lives so close to the US Border, we shouldn't act shocked when people decide to buy over there. Things have always been far cheaper in the USA than here, including airfare. This happens all over the World. People who live in Switzerland will drive to Germany to go grocery shopping because it's MUCH cheaper, etc.~

I do wonder what fleabag hotel in New York City was only $600 for 3 nights though :P

golog
Nov 27, 2010, 6:59 AM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/an-ominous-flight-pattern-canadians-opting-for-us-airports/article1815784/
Always amusing to see articles on this topic.

Great article, I'm pleased to see greater initiative in the press. Excellent timing to make an impact.

Interesting
"Number of one-way trips made by Canadians who departed or arrived at U.S. airports last year"
Toronto : Buffalo (1900M) + Niagara (16M)
Vancouver : Seattle (700M) + Bellingham (325M)
Windsor, London : Detroit (700M)
Montreal : Burlington (600M) + Plattsburgh (63M)
Winnipeg : Grand Forks (55M) + Fargo (50M)
Calgary : Great Falls (50M) + Kalispell (15M)

golog
Nov 27, 2010, 7:09 AM
Air Canada to add new Vancouver-Tokyo flight

BRENT JANG — TRANSPORTATION REPORTER
From Friday's Globe and Mail
...
In Tokyo on Thursday, B.C. Transportation Minister Shirley Bond said Air Canada’s Vancouver-Haneda route will raise the profile of Vancouver International Airport. She set an ambitious target to boost total traffic going through the Vancouver airport to 28.4 million passengers in 2020, or a 75-per-cent surge from 2009.
...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/air-canada-to-add-new-vancouver-tokyo-flight/article1785216/

What Shirley Bond is sugesting is exponential growth over 10 years. 1 million more pasengers \year would be amazing and it would take a significant change in policy from Ottawa?

I guess year 1 or 2 is achievable if airport taxation is lowered, and the American TSA stays in the news with assaulting passengers. 1 million ready and waiting to presumably fly from YVR instead of SEA or BLI

SpongeG
Nov 27, 2010, 7:12 AM
In general it will almost always be cheaper to go to the USA. But I have to wonder if it is worth peoples time. Though, people have always been *really* bad at doing the math. For example, a friend of mine was coming home from South Dakota where he is in university. He flew to Montana, and then drove the 8+ hours to Calgary. Cost effective? I suppose. Time effective? No...

But when a good percentage of the population lives so close to the US Border, we shouldn't act shocked when people decide to buy over there. Things have always been far cheaper in the USA than here, including airfare. This happens all over the World. People who live in Switzerland will drive to Germany to go grocery shopping because it's MUCH cheaper, etc.~

I do wonder what fleabag hotel in New York City was only $600 for 3 nights though :P

thats $200 per night - you can get deals at the W for that price even less

anyway if you look around there are some deals - we are lucky in vancouver that we have bellingham and seattle so close

i looked up a flight to south africa - from seattle it was $900 something with fees and taxes it was just around $1100 - u flew seattle-chicago-madrid-johanesburg - the same time a flight from vancouver was about $1800 plus fees and taxes and was just over $2200 and you flew vancouver-london-johanesburg - to save that much an extra stop would be fine with me its a long flight anyway having a layover is nice on those trips

jsbertram
Nov 27, 2010, 7:55 AM
Great article, I'm pleased to see greater initiative in the press. Excellent timing to make an impact.

Interesting
"Number of one-way trips made by Canadians who departed or arrived at U.S. airports last year"
Toronto : Buffalo (1900M) + Niagara (16M)
Vancouver : Seattle (700M) + Bellingham (325M)
Windsor, London : Detroit (700M)
Montreal : Burlington (600M) + Plattsburgh (63M)
Winnipeg : Grand Forks (55M) + Fargo (50M)
Calgary : Great Falls (50M) + Kalispell (15M)

I think you hit M (Million) when you mean K (Thousand)

I was somewhat suspicious to see that of the worlds population (6,000 M), 1/3 (1,900 M) would fly through Buffalo

vanlaw
Nov 27, 2010, 8:47 AM
I think you hit M (Million) when you mean K (Thousand)

I was somewhat suspicious to see that of the worlds population (6,000 M), 1/3 (1,900 M) would fly through Buffalo

Although i prefer "K" to denote thousands, "M" is also generally acceptable, and widely used in banking and other fields.

deasine
Nov 27, 2010, 10:12 AM
Definitely, Air Transat needs to have AVODs or at least INFEs on their flights. I can't imaging not having my own personal screen onboard an international flight.

trofirhen
Nov 27, 2010, 1:06 PM
Great article, I'm pleased to see greater initiative in the press. Excellent timing to make an impact.

Interesting
"Number of one-way trips made by Canadians who departed or arrived at U.S. airports last year"
Toronto : Buffalo (1900M) + Niagara (16M)
Vancouver : Seattle (700M) + Bellingham (325M)
Windsor, London : Detroit (700M)
Montreal : Burlington (600M) + Plattsburgh (63M)
Winnipeg : Grand Forks (55M) + Fargo (50M)
Calgary : Great Falls (50M) + Kalispell (15M)
:previous:
Maybe this will make the tight-assed Canadian government relax some of their business-initiative stifling rules, listen up, and smarten up. Of course, the unusually high Loonie / US $ ratio has a fair bit to do with it.

deasine
Nov 30, 2010, 8:08 AM
Doesn't affect YVR specifically right now, but it's certainly making quite a big splash in the aviation world.


British Airways, Iberia Owners Back $9 Billion Merger

November 29, 2010, 11:37 AM EST More From Businessweek


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By Steve Rothwell and Howard Mustoe
(Updates with British Airways union’s strike-ballot plan starting in second paragraph, comment from analyst in fourth.)
Nov. 29 (Bloomberg) -- British Airways Plc and Iberia Lineas Aereas de Espana SA shareholders gave the go ahead for a $9 billion merger that will extend the U.K. company’s dominance of lucrative trans-Atlantic routes and close the gap to European market leaders Air France-KLM Group and Deutsche Lufthansa AG.
Iberia’s owners backed the plan in Madrid and three British Airways resolutions approving the deal won support from more than 99 percent of voters in London. The U.K. carrier’s cabin- crew union marked the occasion by announcing plans for a strike ballot in a 21-month dispute over pay and staffing levels.
British Airways Chief Executive Officer Willie Walsh says he’s planning further purchases in a push to cut costs and penetrate new markets. The London-based carrier tapped a surge in demand for business flights to post its first profit in two years in the three months ended Sept. 30 after Iberia returned to profit in the second quarter, and Walsh said today that fresh walkouts by flight attendants won’t deflect from the recovery.
“The merger news means they can get on with details like coordinating flight schedules,” said John Strickland, director of the JLS aviation consultancy. “The strike threat is another aggravation and it’s hard to understand why this dispute hasn’t been resolved. BA seems to have made some kind of a compromise.”
Today’s votes pave the way for the carriers to combine under the International Consolidated Airlines Group SA holding company. The transaction is scheduled take effect on Jan. 21 after gaining U.K. High Court approval on Jan. 19, they said.
‘Active Role’
“The aviation industry is moving towards consolidation and we need to be sure we are playing an active role,” British Airways Chairman Martin Broughton said at today’s meeting in the U.K. capital. His counterpart in Madrid, Antonio Vazquez, said that Iberia needs to become “a main player within a big airline group” so as not to get left behind after mergers among rivals.
Air France became Europe’s biggest carrier in 2004 with the purchase of KLM, and last year bought a 25 percent stake in Italy’s Alitalia. Lufthansa, the region’s No. 2, acquired Swiss International Air Lines AG in 2007 and has since bought Austrian Airlines AG, U.K,-based BMI and is adding Brussels Airlines NV.
British Airways has a market value of 3.02 billion pounds ($4.7 billion) after advancing 40 percent this year, and Iberia is worth 3 billion euros ($4 billion) following a 70 percent gain. The U.K. carrier fell 3.6 percent to 262 pence today in London trading, with Iberia declining 2.5 percent.
The companies first announced that they were in talks about an all-share merger in July 2008, the month that oil prices reached a record $147 a barrel, slashing profit margins and causing some carriers to collapse.
Pension Hurdle
A tie-up was agreed in November 2009, conditional on Iberia approving British Airways plans for reducing a 3.7 billion pound pension deficit. The Spanish carrier’s board approved that strategy on Sept. 23, clearing the way to consult investors.
British Airways says the merger will generate 400 million euros of synergies in the fifth year and give it the option of adding flights in Madrid, away from London Heathrow, which as Europe’s busiest airport is afflicted by capacity constraints.
The combination will also create a more effective bulwark against discount carriers such as Ryanair Holdings Plc and EasyJet Plc and give “considerable scale” within the European market, Walsh said today.
Hit List
The CEO said in September that he intends to push on with consolidation and that British Airways and Iberia have already identified 12 other carriers which would be attractive partners.
The executive says that merger candidates are more likely to come from within the Oneworld airline alliance of which the two are members, together with carriers including AMR Corp.’s American Airlines, Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd. and Qantas Airways Ltd. British Airways has led the group’s recruitment of India’s Kingfisher Airlines, S7 Airlines of Russia and Air Berlin Plc, Germany’s biggest carrier after Lufthansa.
British Airways and American said last month that they would start sharing booking codes on more than 2,700 services, as well as adding new routes, after winning antitrust approval to extend their alliance on trans-Atlantic flights.
The Unite union will “shortly” serve notice of a ballot on renewed strike action by BA’s 12,000 cabin crew, it said today at a London press conference. The poll will be concluded in early January, joint General Secretary Tony Woodley said.
While British Airways and Unite have reached broad agreement on employment terms, the union wants concessions on the treatment of striking workers, including the immediate restoration of travel benefits suspended until 2013 and binding arbitration on all disciplinary cases related to the dispute.
‘Torn Apart’
Walsh said that in the event of a further walkouts, “we are just going to continue to run the business,” adding that factions within the union are “tearing themselves apart.”
After the last round of talks with Woodley the pair “shook hands” on a deal, only for the union leader to renege on the plan following meetings with elected officials, the CEO said.
Woodley said didn’t shake on a agreement but held “discussions,” and that the suspension of travel perks for 2 1/2 years rendered the proposals “as dead as the proverbial dodo.”
Walsh said he may main remain involved in negotiations even when he becomes CEO of the IAG holding company, at which point BA will be led by its current finance chief, Keith Williams.
“I’m very happy to remain directly involved to play whatever role Keith would like me to play,” Walsh said.
--With assistance from Manuel Baigorri in Madrid. Editors: Chris Jasper, Chad Thomas.
To contact the reporters on this story: Steven Rothwell in London at srothwell@bloomberg.net; Howard Mustoe in London at hmustoe@bloomberg.net
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Kenneth Wong at kwong11@bloomberg.net


(Bloomberg Business Week (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-29/british-airways-iberia-owners-back-9-billion-merger.html), 2010)

trofirhen
Nov 30, 2010, 1:31 PM
:previous:
Wowee! Imagine Iberia jets with scheduled service at YVR. (That'll be the day):rolleyes:

Canadian Mind
Nov 30, 2010, 5:53 PM
Although i prefer "K" to denote thousands, "M" is also generally acceptable, and widely used in banking and other fields.

Roman numerals?

twoNeurons
Nov 30, 2010, 6:09 PM
Roman numerals?

My guess is french. "mille"
"k" is Greek, though.

MalcolmTucker
Nov 30, 2010, 6:13 PM
My guess is french. "mille"
"k" is Greek, though.

M is teh roman numberal for thousand. MM = 2000

Yume-sama
Nov 30, 2010, 6:24 PM
Well, the banking system was invented by the Romans :P

It would be nifty to have a direct flight to Spain. But, that's not going to happen.

jlousa
Dec 1, 2010, 6:42 AM
I had two direct flights to Spain out of YVR this summer. :frog:

And one to Paris. :frog: Hi Trofirhen.

It would be nice to use a non-charter airline though.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 1, 2010, 8:23 AM
http://www.yvr.ca/Libraries/Facts_and_Stats/October_2010_Traffic_Update.sflb.ashx

YVR is just motoring along as evidenced from their October numbers:

Overall, up a pretty decent 7.3%

Domestic up 0.4%

But check out these stats....

Transborder up 19.8% (Imagine if Canadians weren't "flocking" to the US like the Globe and Mail article suggests at the top"
Asia Pacific up 14.8%
Europe up 7.6%
Misc International up 46.1%

I am curious about the "Charter" to Europe in October, up a massive 41%. Which airlines are classified as charter this year that wouldn't have been charter in 2009 to lead to such a large increase as I am pretty sure capacity was about the same?

trofirhen
Dec 1, 2010, 11:57 AM
Yes I know. You're all SICK of my insistence for regular, scheduled service to Paris. Well, Seattle got Air France, after the dodo birds in Ottawa turned it away from here for the "nth" time ... and now Delta is thinking of introducing nonstop Paris service to PORTLAND.

So for all you Asia / Haneda-or-Narita obsessed folks; go celebrate. The US West is beating us to Europe. Isn't that what you really want?

(no of course not; you just don't give a damn about Europe. Hah! With the big Italian community in Vancouver, there isn't even a through-flight to Rome. How pathetic ... how sucky ... how ... how ... well ... typically Canadian) :(

Yume-sama
Dec 1, 2010, 5:42 PM
Hmm. Well, a lot of the demographic of Vancouver may not actually give a damn about Europe lol

Just look around :P

trofirhen
Dec 1, 2010, 5:56 PM
Hmm. Well, a lot of the demographic of Vancouver may not actually give a damn about Europe lol

Just look around :P
:previous:
That's true, Yume. Nevertheless, a lot of the demographic also DOES care about, has ties with, and makes visits to Europe, for business, tourist, and family reasons.

Take a second look around, lol ;)

In fact, at the Canadian Embassy on Avenue Montaigne, there are three times as many immigration applications from France to Canada than there were five
years ago. First choice? Montreal, of course. Second (and I checked this out) ... Vancouver. And there is still the steady stream of immigrants from the former Soviet countries, as well as southern Europe. (this is largely due to Canada's relative economic stability, and the wobbling Euro).

Anyway, according to the stats presented by Johnnie Aussie, transborder beats out both, so there we have it.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 2, 2010, 9:18 AM
Did anyone else notice, next summer Air China is boosting the YVR-PEK route to 12 weekly (the 0300 departure is increasing to 5 weekly).

Also, Air Canada is upgrading the daily AC29 YVR-PEK to a 77W for the summer 2011 scheds.

This is a massive increase in capacity to China.

Add to that the new daily AC Haneda flight, the new 4 weekly charters to Japan....

Looks like the growth to Asia Pacific is going to continue quite strongly.

giallo
Dec 2, 2010, 12:35 PM
I'm curious if there will be a pick up in flights to and from Taiwan now that the Taiwanese no long need a visa to visit Canada.

twoNeurons
Dec 2, 2010, 5:42 PM
Well, the banking system was invented by the Romans :P

So, it's a big banking battle brawl between the Greeks and the Romans K vs. M. And apparently the Greeks aren't too good at counting costs *cough* Athens *cough*.

I'd love to see a scheduled airline to Spain. Trof, I don't think people don't CARE about Europe so much as they feel that there is a much bigger chance of being a major Asian gateway.

As for me, I've got connections on both sides of the ponds, I'd love to have direct non-charter flights to Glasgow, Rome, Paris and either Madrid or Barcelona.

However, until we see a larger roll-out of planes like the 787, I just don't think the airlines want to fly to a 2nd tier city like Vancouver.

Even then, we're more likely to see connections to 2nd-tier Asian cities first. Remember, airlines are trying to build loyalty and get a foothold in the fast-growing Asian economy. It's no surprise that the launch customer for the 787 is ANA.

I agree that it's sad that Vancouver doesn't have a direct scheduled flight to Paris, the world's most visited city... but I try to focus my energy on what is actually happening.

trofirhen
Dec 2, 2010, 7:17 PM
I'd love to see a scheduled airline to Spain. Trof, I don't think people don't CARE about Europe so much as they feel that there is a much bigger chance of being a major Asian gateway.

As for me, I've got connections on both sides of the ponds, I'd love to have direct non-charter flights to Glasgow, Rome, Paris and either Madrid or Barcelona.

However, until we see a larger roll-out of planes like the 787, I just don't think the airlines want to fly to a 2nd tier city like Vancouver.

Even then, we're more likely to see connections to 2nd-tier Asian cities first. Remember, airlines are trying to build loyalty and get a foothold in the fast-growing Asian economy. It's no surprise that the launch customer for the 787 is ANA.

I agree that it's sad that Vancouver doesn't have a direct scheduled flight to Paris, the world's most visited city... but I try to focus my energy on what is actually happening.

A good point, well-made. And I think you're right that we grab as big a slice of the Asian aviation action while the opportunity is there.
The European destinations will come along, not as many, and later on, but they'll come, I'm sure.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 3, 2010, 7:28 AM
Confirmed that the 4 weekly flights will be 3 to Osaka and 1 to Nagoya (not Nagano as the National Post reported - they must have had Olympics on their mind!)... now who is going to operate these flights?

SpongeG
Dec 3, 2010, 7:49 AM
maybe skymark will get some

teriyaki
Dec 3, 2010, 8:13 AM
Confirmed that the 4 weekly flights will be 3 to Osaka and 1 to Nagoya (not Nagano as the National Post reported - they must have had Olympics on their mind!)... now who is going to operate these flights?

Can't imagine JAL taking these up with their recent massive reduction in routes, so its probably Air Canada. Skymark would be a real surprise:yes:

twoNeurons
Dec 3, 2010, 5:32 PM
Can't imagine JAL taking these up with their recent massive reduction in routes, so its probably Air Canada. Skymark would be a real surprise:yes:

These are charters, though. Charters don't run half-empty planes. The Airline would sell all the seats at a discount to the charter and it's the charter's job to fill them.

Looks like they're taking advantage of Air Canada dropping the Osaka route.

deasine
Dec 3, 2010, 5:35 PM
A few names have been thrown in the mix. Air Transat is one of them, plus, they've been wanting to enter Asia for the longest time.

Yume-sama
Dec 3, 2010, 6:10 PM
What about the WestJet charters we've been hearing about? Didn't we have an article about those people saying they want to fly to Japan?

WestJet has already rented some FinnAir 767's (which are completely unrelated).

Johnny Aussie
Dec 4, 2010, 12:19 AM
What about the WestJet charters we've been hearing about? Didn't we have an article about those people saying they want to fly to Japan?

WestJet has already rented some FinnAir 767's (which are completely unrelated).

Actually the a/c leased by Westjet are Air Finland 757s. Those are only being leased for about 2 1/2 months to operate Westjet's Alberta-Hawaii flights next Feb - Apr.

I would put my money on Air Transat!

big T
Dec 4, 2010, 2:07 AM
Yeah, I would guess Transat too. I know someone who's been interviewing for jobs with them back in Mtl, and apparently they have a lot of Vancouver-based positions they are looking to fill (FA positions).

Johnny Aussie
Dec 5, 2010, 12:22 AM
According to this article dated 3 December, Aeromexico plans to start service to YVR in the "first half of 2011." See last paragragh.

Obviously going to take advantage of the demise of Mexicana, whether or not Mexicana starts flying again.

It's funny that both OAG and Amadeus (amongst others) still shows MX flying daily to YVR idefinitely. Don't think so!

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/12/03/350542/aeromexico-adds-capacity-on-seven-us-routes.html

deasine
Dec 5, 2010, 2:14 AM
Not surprised. Aeromexico just confirmed their YYZ routing as well.

vanlaw
Dec 8, 2010, 6:48 PM
WestJet Airlines Ltd., Canada’s second-biggest airline, confirmed Wednesday that it has signed an agreement that will allow passengers travelling on British Airways to connect to WestJet’s network.

The so-called inbound interline agreement would advance WestJet efforts to expand beyond its low-budget roots, as it seeks new sources of revenue and profit, while trying to attract lucrative business passengers.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/westjet-signs-pact-with-british-airways/article1830013/

Yume-sama
Dec 8, 2010, 6:52 PM
I've heard they'll soon have an agreement with Emirates, too. Funnelling people out of Toronto around the country.

And allow the booking of flights from say, Vancouver to Dubai through YYZ.

deasine
Dec 8, 2010, 7:29 PM
Personally speaking, I hope WS continues its airline expansion. It already seems to be moving into a "semi-low cost network" model (i.e. Air Berlin), rather than just being a "low-cost carrier" (i.e. Southwest), especially since the prices for both WS and AC are quite similar. I'm hoping WS will eventually join the OneWorld family.

From a OneWorld's standpoint, the airline alliance is lacking on the size of its airline global network. I know OneWorld focuses on delivering quality airline models on its alliance network, but the North American network is just pathetic. I'm sorry to say, but AA is just horrible, and WS is miles better. Comparing to other allainces, Star Alliance has a much larger North American airline network (AC, UA/CO, US) and SkyTeam has DL, which is currently still the largest airline in the world. Plus, WS and OneWorld have already teamed up together for business travel through OneWorld's canadaconnect program.

From WS's standpoint, becoming part of OneWorld can also help expand their own network without necessarily introducing transpacific and transatlantic routes. WS is already beginning to form interline alliances with OneWorld partners, i.e. BA and AA, and already has a codeshare alliance with CX. WS already has an extensive network across Canada and is more than capable of becoming a feeder for many of these airlines. With these expanding codeshares, WS can also focus on further expanding their North American network, introducing more transborder routes.

Not that VX Virgin America is the appropriate business model to follow, but I personally think WS should look into following on delivering products similar to that of VX's offering. WS's planes and cabins are already starting to show its age, and I think the next retrofit should include dual cabin offerings, a economy class and a coach class. No, the coach class shouldn't be as extravagant as Emirates, but it should have better seats, improved entertainment systems, etc. Even if they don't have a distinct class, then they should have a more premium economy class that allows for priority boarding, exit row seating/bulkhead seating (more room).

Yume-sama
Dec 8, 2010, 7:35 PM
I agree, WS needs to update their cabins soon, AC's Project XM is kicking their behind, especially for trans-continental.

And when they do, I do hope they go more for Virgin America's cabin, and add perhaps 2 - 3 rows of "business" (premium economy, really) seating up front.

There is no real advantage to taking WestJet considering the price is the exact same most of the time. It's cabin or nothing :P

Here is a typical Virgin cabin~
https://www.virginamerica.com/va/images/pkphotomaincabin.jpg

twoNeurons
Dec 8, 2010, 8:13 PM
It looks like it's shaping up to WestJet eventually becoming a OneWorld Member... or at least have some affiliation.

It's an interesting route they seem to be taking, though.

When you think of airlines like Qantas, Cathay Pacific, JAL, British Airways, do you think of WestJet?

Then again perhaps they fit in with Malev (Hungary), LAN (Chile) and S7 (Russia)?

Thoughts on OneWorld, anyone? What would WestJet's joining of OneWorld do for YVR, if anything?

deasine
Dec 9, 2010, 12:28 AM
It looks like it's shaping up to WestJet eventually becoming a OneWorld Member... or at least have some affiliate

It's an interesting route they seem to be taking, though.

When you think of airlines like Qantas, Cathay Pacific, JAL, British Airways, do you think of WestJet?

Then again perhaps they fit in with Malev (Hungary), LAN (Chile) and S7 (Russia)?

Thoughts on OneWorld, anyone? What would WestJet's joining of OneWorld do for YVR, if anything?

That's exactly the problem right now. OneWorld is a really premium, exclusive airline alliance. It isn't SkyTeam or Star Alliance, who really seems like they want global dominance (quantity as opposed to quality). OneWorld really strives for more quality airlines. Even the "lower status airlines," like MALEV, LAN, S7, and Air Berlin, have some sort of product consistency and baseline.

At this point, WS may not fit too well within OneWorld, but I think they are starting to slowly make these changes. As for what it will do for YVR, it can definitely attract more connecting passengers through YVR from other carriers such as CX, JAL, and to a much lesser extent, from AA. WS's move to OneWorld will probably be much more beneficial for other airports such as YYC or YYZ.

As Yume-Sama has already stated, AC's ProjectXM cabins are much better than WS's current cabin. VX's style is what WestJet should be striving for. WS already has the service, now they just need new cabins. A new, more premium class, can definitely be an advantage for WS, especially if they are trying to attract more businessmen to fly on WS.

VX is definitely one of the best airlines in North America that I've every flown with.