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Johnny Aussie
Dec 9, 2010, 11:10 AM
Asia capacity getting another bump in Summer 11.....

According to a posting on airlineroute.net, Philippine Airlines will introduce their new 77W on the 3 weekly MNL-YVR terminating flights.

The remaining 4 weekly MNL-YVR-LAS flights will remain 343.

This will commence 27 March 2011.

http://airlineroute.net/2010/12/09/pr-yvr-s11/

Also, noticed CO is bumping the IAH daily flight to a 739 over the peak mid December - mid January period... and UA upgrading a few flights to 320 from 319 in the same period (ORD and DEN, including one of my flights to DEN).

mezzanine
Dec 9, 2010, 4:26 PM
Interesting report from the CBC this AM. I would imaging it would be very difficult for any canadian airport to compete with flights to US destinations versus us border airports unless something fundamental happened at the federal level.

I also didn't know this:

The only thing that has restricted Bellingham airport from offering international flights has been its runway size, which has now been lengthened. That means larger aircraft can start to use the facility.

Flights to Mexico are scheduled to begin in 2012.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/12/08/bc-bellingham-airport-yvr-competition.html#ixzz17dGgpOSo

========================

Also i had a quick question - anyone fly the JAL route YVR-NRT recently? I'll be going over xmas - critically, do they have in-seat power for notebooks or (i'm hoping) wifi? i'll be in the economy class. and that's regular, not premium economy. :(

MalcolmTucker
Dec 9, 2010, 4:33 PM
No wi-fi, yes on a/c. I don't think any airline has wi-fi on over ocean flights - most wi-fi systems use ground stations no? Putting Satellite internet on airplanes would be pretty expensive.

mezzanine
Dec 9, 2010, 4:53 PM
Lufthansa has had off-and-on again trans-oceanic / transcontinental wifi, they pulled out of boeing's system a few years ago, but have a new system that will wide spread roll-out this year. IIRC, it works via satelite.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/04/lufthansa-launches-in-flight-wifi-on-intercontinental-flights-u/

wifi may be a pipe dream on JAL now, but i am hoping there is in-seat power on JAL's NRT run.

vanlaw
Dec 9, 2010, 5:05 PM
Interesting report from the CBC this AM. I would imaging it would be very difficult for any canadian airport to compete with flights to US destinations versus us border airports unless something fundamental happened at the federal level.

Somehow, someway, carriers flying out of YVR will have to come up with better pricing. Although I got this on a great seat sale, I just booked BLI -HNL on the new Alaska Air run for $330USD tax in round trip. Even without seat sale, it is still at least a couple hundred cheaper.

I think generally we just get screwed. A year or two ago, I was looking at pricing in summer for flight to Montreal. From YVR it was over $600. From Seattle, it was around $400, and that was flying the AC puddle jumper to YVR, then getting on the exact same flight to YUL as the $600+ flight. I broke down the fare, and taxes didn’t even come close to making up the difference.

I have also found that, in some circumstances, it is cheaper to fly round trip from Europe to YVR, then the other way around. For some reason, BA has really good pricing on expedia and Travelocity. In non-summer months, you can regularly get flights from Germany via LRH to YVR on BA for $750-$900 all-in, If you search the exact same dates, but switch it so it is round trip from YVR, it is generally 30-50% more. Interesting thing on that is if you actually search from LHR to YVR, it is more expensive, but the flight originating in Hamburg, Munich, Pisa etc that routes through LHR is cheaper, kind of like the SEA – YUL example above.

Yume-sama
Dec 9, 2010, 5:40 PM
:D Wi-fi on transcontinental flights would make my life. If we can put a man on the moon, I should be able to check my Facebook at 35,000 feet over the Pacific.

WRT to WestJet joining any serious alliance, I would think they would almost be "forced" to have some rows of premium seating. There are some serious airlines in that alliance, and when people have booked a First Class ticket, they won't settle for the current best seat on a WestJet plane... the Emergency Exit Row.

And Canadians getting screwed on pricing is nothing new. Even things that are MADE in Canada end up being more expensive here :P This is why Canada is not a serious shopping destination for Americans, or really anyone else. Except, of course, for luxury goods (Louis Vuitton, Hermes, etc.) which are still MUCH cheaper than in Japan, China, Russia, the Emirates, etc.

You can be quite wealthy with a lot less in the USA :( Homes, food, cars, gas, flights at a fraction of the price.

Denscity
Dec 9, 2010, 5:49 PM
flew into vancouver the other day from castlegar. there was hsbc signage all over the outside of the domestic terminal. hundreds of feet of it. never saw outside sponsorship on an airport before. is this normal?

Yume-sama
Dec 9, 2010, 5:50 PM
lol HSBC has plastered themselves in a big explosion of HSBC ads at every airport in the World it seems like.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 9, 2010, 7:50 PM
wifi may be a pipe dream on JAL now, but i am hoping there is in-seat power on JAL's NRT run.

I haven't been on JAL for a few years, but I checked seatguru and JAL's website and it appears their 777-200s do not have in seat power in Y class. I would check with JAL directly to be sure. If not, I recommend buying a couple of spare batteries?

Yume-sama
Dec 9, 2010, 7:55 PM
It would be hard to imagine they wouldn't, if the old 747's had them. Though, I think it was only 1 per 3, not on every seat like in Air Canada.

Actually, maybe AC's economy is only 2 per 3? I haven't been back there in awhile. But the USB plugs are a nice bonus for iPhone / iPad, etc.!

Johnny Aussie
Dec 9, 2010, 8:06 PM
:D Wi-fi on transcontinental flights would make my life. If we can put a man on the moon, I should be able to check my Facebook at 35,000 feet over the Pacific.

WRT to WestJet joining any serious alliance, I would think they would almost be "forced" to have some rows of premium seating. There are some serious airlines in that alliance, and when people have booked a First Class ticket, they won't settle for the current best seat on a WestJet plane... the Emergency Exit Row.

And Canadians getting screwed on pricing is nothing new. Even things that are MADE in Canada end up being more expensive here :P This is why Canada is not a serious shopping destination for Americans, or really anyone else. Except, of course, for luxury goods (Louis Vuitton, Hermes, etc.) which are still MUCH cheaper than in Japan, China, Russia, the Emirates, etc.

You can be quite wealthy with a lot less in the USA :( Homes, food, cars, gas, flights at a fraction of the price.

I think you mean "intercontinental." ;)

I do agree with your Westjet comment . I reckon if they would be serious contenders to join One World they would have to upgrade some services (adding premium seating). Imagine going from CX first (or their new J which I hope to experience soon) to WS economy. However, this happens now anyway on a lot of carriers where regional flights just dont have any premium seating to offer.

We have similar problems in Australia with pricing. We export a lot of premium stuff and then pay more $$$ for lesser quality. It pisses me off when I go to Singapore a few times a year and see, for example, Aussie apples, for about 1/2 the price we pay here and we know that these apples are better than our apples... how do you like them apples!? or bananas :banana: So what is the answer? Don't know.

Not so sure about your luxury items comment though. LV, is one company, that basically has worldwide pricing. The only reason I know this is my partner is addicted to this brand (amongst others!) and I have had the "pleasure" of buying these all over the world and the pricing is very very similar around the world. A quick fluctuation of the USD can make a difference in the short term, but very rarely would you find an item "MUCH" cheaper anywhere in particular.

Your comment about the US is pretty valid too. Although there is a significant reason why their housing is cheaper right now!!:yuck:

Johnny Aussie
Dec 9, 2010, 8:10 PM
It would be hard to imagine they wouldn't, if the old 747's had them. Though, I think it was only 1 per 3, not on every seat like in Air Canada.

Actually, maybe AC's economy is only 2 per 3? I haven't been back there in awhile. But the USB plugs are a nice bonus for iPhone / iPad, etc.!

JAL's website is pretty vague about the economy seat. And seatguru (love this website) does not show AC power on the 777-200, only the 777-300.

ACTUALLY - seatguru may have made a mistake... they have the 777-200ER all three versions as 773. Therefore it appears that there may be AC power in Y!!

Definitely best to check with JAL directly to be sure!!

trofirhen
Dec 9, 2010, 9:29 PM
I just read the CBC article posted by Mezzanine. The Americans know they can offer cheaper flights, and they also know Canadians will go to their airports to get them.
*
If YVR wants to remain the "league" of major airports, something's gotta give. Either the government has to exempt transborder and overseas flights from HST, or the Canadian Transport Commission will have to (somehow) take the bull by the horns and do something - don't ask me what.
*
Luckily for Vancouver, this is affecting YYZ as well (people flying out of Buffalo) otherwise they wouldn't give two hoots in hell.
*
We have to start ramping up, or we'll be second fiddle to Sea-Tac (and even, limitedly I will admit), to Bellingham.
*
Laugh if you will. See if you are still laughing ten years -or less - down the road.

twoNeurons
Dec 9, 2010, 10:10 PM
I'm pretty sure Bellingham is enjoying siphoning off traffic. A lot of locals "like" Canadian $$$ it buoys their economy but don't particularly like "Canadians" because they find the cross-border shoppers demanding, condescending and at times rude.

I think this probably has to do with two things:

Many Canadians who cross-border shop are "deal-hunters" and will spend $15 to save $12. (yes, I know there are considerable savings on some items). These kind of shoppers are usually quite demanding.
Bellingham/Blaine/Sumas are all rather pastoral, small-town communities unnaturally butted up against a big metropolitan city. When you have the "city" folk from "Canada" come and buy stuff, there's a cultural divide which people label as "those durn Canadians"


In any case, I'm just saying that there are several motivations behind the desire for BLI to succeed and residents in the area are no strangers to siphoning off business. It's a shame it's so close to YXX. That's traffic that YXX could have had.

teriyaki
Dec 9, 2010, 11:50 PM
In any case, I'm just saying that there are several motivations behind the desire for BLI to succeed and residents in the area are no strangers to siphoning off business. It's a shame it's so close to YXX. That's traffic that YXX could have had.

Perhaps, but there also might be the case that they're catering to a type of traveller that wouldn't have otherwise travelled if their only choice was a flight out of YVR at an inflated price.

In any case, competition is inherently good, YVR and other Canadian airports just have to find ways to stay competitive and not stubbon on policy (this is where i'm concerned).

Millennium2002
Dec 10, 2010, 2:57 AM
Unfortunately, with the regulated airline market (or in other words strong government control) and strong opposition from Air Canada, that seems more like a wish than anything else. I think our airports will unfortunately fall to second-class after a few more years unless something is done to boost business here.... and maybe then we'll realize our mistake. By then, however, it'll be a really sad catch-up game. ><

SpongeG
Dec 10, 2010, 3:14 AM
:D Wi-fi on transcontinental flights would make my life. If we can put a man on the moon, I should be able to check my Facebook at 35,000 feet over the Pacific.

WRT to WestJet joining any serious alliance, I would think they would almost be "forced" to have some rows of premium seating. There are some serious airlines in that alliance, and when people have booked a First Class ticket, they won't settle for the current best seat on a WestJet plane... the Emergency Exit Row.

And Canadians getting screwed on pricing is nothing new. Even things that are MADE in Canada end up being more expensive here :P This is why Canada is not a serious shopping destination for Americans, or really anyone else. Except, of course, for luxury goods (Louis Vuitton, Hermes, etc.) which are still MUCH cheaper than in Japan, China, Russia, the Emirates, etc.

You can be quite wealthy with a lot less in the USA :( Homes, food, cars, gas, flights at a fraction of the price.

a Coach bag and Uggs for everyone! even nicole ritchie

SpongeG
Dec 10, 2010, 3:16 AM
Perhaps, but there also might be the case that they're catering to a type of traveller that wouldn't have otherwise travelled if their only choice was a flight out of YVR at an inflated price.

In any case, competition is inherently good, YVR and other Canadian airports just have to find ways to stay competitive and not stubbon on policy (this is where i'm concerned).

we saved about $200 each using bellingham to go to san fran last year plus the parking is much cheaper than YVR :)

they are adding hawaii flights in january 2011 from b/ham - could do well

trofirhen
Dec 10, 2010, 3:55 AM
Interesting report from the CBC this AM. I would imaging it would be very difficult for any canadian airport to compete with flights to US destinations versus us border airports unless something fundamental happened at the federal level.

I also didn't know this:



========================

Also i had a quick question - anyone fly the JAL route YVR-NRT recently? I'll be going over xmas - critically, do they have in-seat power for notebooks or (i'm hoping) wifi? i'll be in the economy class. and that's regular, not premium economy. :(

Perhaps, but there also might be the case that they're catering to a type of traveller that wouldn't have otherwise travelled if their only choice was a flight out of YVR at an inflated price.

In any case, competition is inherently good, YVR and other Canadian airports just have to find ways to stay competitive and not stubbon on policy (this is where i'm concerned).

GJ. I always fly out of Seattle. I usually save more than 1/2 on plane tickets when I fly out of there. And I'll continue to do it until YVR smartens up and stops raping customers with inflated prices.

BLI's non-stop hawaii route should be making YVR veryyy nervous

we saved about $200 each using bellingham to go to san fran last year plus the parking is much cheaper than YVR :)

they are adding hawaii flights in january 2011 from b/ham - could do well


Interesting, synchronistic stements and responses..

Gordon
Dec 10, 2010, 3:32 PM
YVR could probablu adjust it's long term parking prices but the other fees related to the airfares are under the control of the federal government.

Vancouver to Frankfurt is about $150- 200 more expensive than Seattle

Vancouver - Miami is the same difference

Bellingham being has a significant advantage cost wise over any major airport

YVR has some of the lowest landing & terminal fees in Canada . YYZ isprobably the most expensive airport for airlines to operate in North America.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 15, 2010, 9:40 AM
Yet another boost to Asia next summer.

Korean Air daily 772 effective 4 July 2011. Was planned to be a 5 weekly 772 operation again.

So who's next?!

whatnext
Dec 15, 2010, 5:46 PM
flew into vancouver the other day from castlegar. there was hsbc signage all over the outside of the domestic terminal. hundreds of feet of it. never saw outside sponsorship on an airport before. is this normal?

Lucky you, they don't call it Cancelgar for nothing! BC flying at its best.

red-paladin
Dec 15, 2010, 8:48 PM
There would probably be a $5 Feng shui + koi pond fee at YVR if there wasn't!

SpongeG
Dec 15, 2010, 11:09 PM
oops wrong things

SpongeG
Dec 15, 2010, 11:11 PM
flew into vancouver the other day from castlegar. there was hsbc signage all over the outside of the domestic terminal. hundreds of feet of it. never saw outside sponsorship on an airport before. is this normal?

heathrow is plastered in HSBC advertising - everywhere the walkways the terminals the things you walk down to the plane, the luggage carts etc

at least when i was there in 2002 it was like that

xd_1771
Dec 16, 2010, 5:51 AM
Yet another boost to Asia next summer.

Korean Air daily 772 effective 4 July 2011. Was planned to be a 5 weekly 772 operation again.

So who's next?!

Really? That seems nice, but I do wonder if the 772ER is enough (I flew on it lately and despite the weekday & early morning departure it seemed quite crowded). Perhaps they should consider using a 773ER for this route.
I've flown JAL's 747ER's out of Vancouver as well, I don't believe they had in-seat power there.

Denscity
Dec 16, 2010, 7:18 AM
Lucky you, they don't call it Cancelgar for nothing! BC flying at its best.

We (YCG) did have 90 000 passengers fly in and out successfully last year. Not bad for a city of 7500. But ya, definitely BC flying. Like landing in a soup bowl (mountains surrounding and at each end of the runway)

whatnext
Dec 16, 2010, 7:45 AM
No strictly YVR related, but Oneworld is moving their head office from Vancouver to New York.:( Sad, but its remarkable they lasted as long as they did here, after Canadian was bought out by AC and left that alliance. There'll be some vacant office space in the Marine Building.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=comm&id=news/avd/2010/12/10/04.xml&headline=Oneworld%20Alliance%20Plans%20HQ%20Move%20To%20New%20York

Vancity
Dec 16, 2010, 9:22 AM
No strictly YVR related, but Oneworld is moving their head office from Vancouver to New York.:( Sad, but its remarkable they lasted as long as they did here, after Canadian was bought out by AC and left that alliance. There'll be some vacant office space in the Marine Building.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=comm&id=news/avd/2010/12/10/04.xml&headline=Oneworld%20Alliance%20Plans%20HQ%20Move%20To%20New%20York

doesn't surprise me one bit, that Vancouver loses yet another organization to another city. This should surprise no one.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 16, 2010, 11:32 AM
Here comes another one... although Cargo this time...

China Southern Cargo to commence YVR in summer 2011... PVG-LAX-YVR-PVG routing..

http://airlineroute.net/2010/12/16/czc-yvrmxp-s11/

So I wonder if China Southern (passenger) will be starting anytime soon... hmmm...

trofirhen
Dec 16, 2010, 5:34 PM
doesn't surprise me one bit, that Vancouver loses yet another organization to another city. This should surprise no one.
:previous:
You got that right. All this makes me wonder what kind of economy Vancouver is going to have in 25 years, and what the "makeup" of the city will be. I think we need to start diversifying, and FAST.

deasine
Dec 16, 2010, 6:16 PM
Okay, OneWorld should not have been in Vancouver the first place. We are barely a hub for OneWorld. New York is much more suitable as it has access to many more OneWorld airlines. Plus, with the recent AA-BA-IB trans-atlantic cooperation and BA-IB merger, and the now 4 CX flights leaving JFK daily, New York really is the better place to have Oneworld's headquarters.

Here comes another one... although Cargo this time...

China Southern Cargo to commence YVR in summer 2011... PVG-LAX-YVR-PVG routing..

http://airlineroute.net/2010/12/16/czc-yvrmxp-s11/

So I wonder if China Southern (passenger) will be starting anytime soon... hmmm...

Well China Southern has been looking into YVR since 2003, but rising fuel costs, downturn, and other priorities has delayed their YVR access. Definitely, with so many Chinese mainlanders residing in Vancouver (namely Richmond of course) as well as the growing foreign investment into Canada/United States, I'm sure China Southern will introduce YVR-CAN flights soon.

And while that might be great news for us as consumers, it will definitely hit CX hard as many mainlanders will decide to take CS over CX. In fact, there was even some discussion about canceling the nightly YVR portion of the HKG-YVR-JFK flight if China Southern was coming to YVR.

whatnext
Dec 16, 2010, 8:03 PM
Okay, OneWorld should not have been in Vancouver the first place. We are barely a hub for OneWorld. New York is much more suitable as it has access to many more OneWorld airlines. Plus, with the recent AA-BA-IB trans-atlantic cooperation and BA-IB merger, and the now 4 CX flights leaving JFK daily, New York really is the better place to have Oneworld's headquarters..

Not completely true. Vancouver was well positioned as an intermediate spot for QF, CX, BA and very handy for AA. Now QF and CX staff will have a long slog to attend meetings in New York.

Perhaps if Westjet had signed on a true partner they might have stayed.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 16, 2010, 8:19 PM
And while that might be great news for us as consumers, it will definitely hit CX hard as many mainlanders will decide to take CS over CX. In fact, there was even some discussion about canceling the nightly YVR portion of the HKG-YVR-JFK flight if China Southern was coming to YVR.

Doubt it. China is about to explode with its overseas travel restrictions softening. And with Canada finally obtaining ADS (approved destination status) look for a huge increase in travel from China to Canada (not all at once, but over the next few years). There will be plenty for everyone (CX, CZ, CA, MU, AC... etc). We are now starting to experience that in Australia, with massive capacity increases occurring from each and every Chinese airline here.

deasine
Dec 17, 2010, 12:53 AM
Not completely true. Vancouver was well positioned as an intermediate spot for QF, CX, BA and very handy for AA. Now QF and CX staff will have a long slog to attend meetings in New York.

Perhaps if Westjet had signed on a true partner they might have stayed.

QF doesn't have any flights into YVR, and plus CX, BA, and AA don't have that many flights into YVR, especially in comparison to JFK. QF and CX both fly direct. And yes, while QF and CX staff have to fly longer (which really isn't that much longer), AA, IB and BA have shorter flights. Oh, don't forget AY, RJ, and LA. Future member AB is also joining OneWorld, and it also has yearly scheduled service flights to JFK (whereas to YVR it's seasonal).

Doubt it. China is about to explode with its overseas travel restrictions softening. And with Canada finally obtaining ADS (approved destination status) look for a huge increase in travel from China to Canada (not all at once, but over the next few years). There will be plenty for everyone (CX, CZ, CA, MU, AC... etc). We are now starting to experience that in Australia, with massive capacity increases occurring from each and every Chinese airline here.

Well this was based on passenger figures back in 2005, but I'm sure CX will be hit either way. If CZ has competitive prices, not only mainlanders, but people bound for HKG will take CZ, then either make a connection flight at CAN, or even take the future bullet train down to Hong Kong. I can see CX reducing capacity on their YVR route and using a 777 for their afternoon flights instead of a 747.

One thing is, if CZ does fly into YVR, I can see WS making another interline agreement with CZ and MU. WS is really in a position not to join any alliance, especially since it has so many agreements with different airlines (Skyteam: AF, KL, CI/OneWorld: CX codeshare, AA, BA).

whatnext
Dec 18, 2010, 6:31 PM
Looks like Richmond Council had their annual gripe-fest with YVR.
http://www.richmond-news.com/talks+noise+pipes+parking/3957432/story.html

Interesting to note their parking revenue plummeted with the intro of the C-Line. And that they're trying to get more flights from Taiwan.

Hourglass
Dec 18, 2010, 6:52 PM
I don't see CZ making a huge dent in Cathay's overall traffic. They serve somewhat different demographics for one thing. For another, CX gets far more passengers transiting to points beyond Hong Kong. Every time I've flown CX between YVR and HKG, a significant proportion of passengers were Indian, Filipino, even Japanese. And yes, PRC Chinese.

More Taiwan traffic? Taiwan is a low-yield route from what I've heard, and even if EVA Air goes daily, that's only 4 extra flights per week. Unless YVR is trying to attract back Singapore Airlines, which I understand has 5th freedom rights from Singapore via Taipei.

deasine
Dec 18, 2010, 10:31 PM
I don't see CZ making a huge dent in Cathay's overall traffic. They serve somewhat different demographics for one thing. For another, CX gets far more passengers transiting to points beyond Hong Kong. Every time I've flown CX between YVR and HKG, a significant proportion of passengers were Indian, Filipino, even Japanese. And yes, PRC Chinese.

More Taiwan traffic? Taiwan is a low-yield route from what I've heard, and even if EVA Air goes daily, that's only 4 extra flights per week. Unless YVR is trying to attract back Singapore Airlines, which I understand has 5th freedom rights from Singapore via Taipei.

While CAN is not even close to HKG's network and destinations, CAN is quite large, actually the second largest airport in mainland China. Even HKG believes CAN is a major competitor. CZ uses CAN as its main hub, and it flies to many of the Asian destinations that other passengers that would otherwise use BR, CI, CX, and PR fliers use. CZ flies to MNL, DPS, SGN, HKG, and many others. Plus, CZ is part of SkyTeam, who is definitely are trying to expand their Asian network: many passengers who don't have access to North America may be funneled through CAN YVR & LAX CZroutes.

I'm not sure if SQ has fifth freedoms for TPE as I don't know any routes that connect through TPE, but I know SQ has fifth freedom at NRT, ICN, and HKG. The old SQ YVR-SIN route I remember used ICN as a stopover.

NetMapel
Dec 18, 2010, 11:00 PM
With the recent move that eliminated VISA for Taiwanese travelers, I would expect an increase in Taiwanese visiting Canada in the future.

Hourglass
Dec 19, 2010, 9:47 AM
While CAN is not even close to HKG's network and destinations, CAN is quite large, actually the second largest airport in mainland China. Even HKG believes CAN is a major competitor. CZ uses CAN as its main hub, and it flies to many of the Asian destinations that other passengers that would otherwise use BR, CI, CX, and PR fliers use. CZ flies to MNL, DPS, SGN, HKG, and many others. Plus, CZ is part of SkyTeam, who is definitely are trying to expand their Asian network: many passengers who don't have access to North America may be funneled through CAN YVR & LAX CZroutes.

I'm not sure if SQ has fifth freedoms for TPE as I don't know any routes that connect through TPE, but I know SQ has fifth freedom at NRT, ICN, and HKG. The old SQ YVR-SIN route I remember used ICN as a stopover.

I agree CAN will emerge as a competitor to HKG, but CZ is currently far behind CX in service standards and efficiency. Moreover, CAN is not a particularly pleasant airport to transit while HKG was designed with transiting passengers in mind. My observation is that Chinese airlines and airports in general are not set-up to support efficient transfers, although I'm sure it will change in the future. For my part, if I was based in southern China as a regular international traveler, I would go out of my way to fly CX/KA via HKG than to take a Chinese airline. I've simply had too many unpleasant experiences traveling with Chinese airlines.

Anyway, I believe there is room in the market for both given the rapid growth in air travel in and around China and the slightly different demographics.

Canada's new bilateral with Singapore was rumored to have TPE as the stopover point. I don't know whether ICN remained part of the new agreement. SQ does transit Taipei for flights to LAX.

whatnext
Dec 19, 2010, 10:20 PM
An Air Canada-organized flashmob at YVR. (I'm not sure what the "Abandon Paris" poster means - maybe its a coded message to trofirhen! :haha:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu42bQFe7VI

trofirhen
Dec 19, 2010, 11:17 PM
An Air Canada-organized flashmob at YVR. (I'm not sure what the "Abandon Paris" poster means - maybe its a coded message to trofirhen! :haha:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu42bQFe7VI
:previous:
Maybe "ABANDON PARIS" is the name of the group. The singing was appropriate to the time of year, the dancing mediocre, but anyway, I've resigned myself to having to change planes in any case.

whatnext
Dec 19, 2010, 11:27 PM
:previous:
Maybe "ABANDON PARIS" is the name of the group. The singing was appropriate to the time of year, the dancing mediocre, but anyway, I've resigned myself to having to change planes in any case.

I was pulling your leg. ;) And you're right Abandon Paris seems to be the name of the group: http://www.myspace.com/abandonparis

SpongeG
Dec 20, 2010, 6:29 PM
dropped off at the airport this morning - they had a TV crew there for the international departures with the whole heathrow mess going on we are pretty much cut off from europe since its probably the main place the flights here go to this time of year

whatnext
Dec 20, 2010, 9:25 PM
Uh oh, it appears there might be something to that Abandon Paris poster after all. Apparently Air Canada is cancelling their one plane YVR-YUL-CDG service for next summer. Guess it didn't perform well.

twoNeurons
Dec 20, 2010, 9:49 PM
Uh oh, it appears there might be something to that Abandon Paris poster after all. Apparently Air Canada is cancelling their one plane YVR-YUL-CDG service for next summer. Guess it didn't perform well.

Perhaps people are just flying from Seattle instead?

trofirhen
Dec 20, 2010, 10:00 PM
Uh oh, it appears there might be something to that Abandon Paris poster after all. Apparently Air Canada is cancelling their one plane YVR-YUL-CDG service for next summer. Guess it didn't perform well.

Perhaps people are just flying from Seattle instead?
:previous:
Messieurs .... talking to a YVR sales rep, that YVR-YUL-CDG routing was very profitable and pleasing to AC. (which was a refreshing surprise)

However, given that AF flies scheduled nonstops Seattle - CDG, (and that probably the fares are lower; hey if they're lower From Sea-Tac to Frankfurt, the it stands to reason they'd be lower Sea-Tac> CDG, n'est-ce pas?)

I know most people on the airport thread don't care much about this route, but the Canadian government's tight-assed attitude lost us Air France, which is a shame, anyway, IMHO.

(I hate changing planes, waiting around terminals for hours) :hell: C'est la vie.

I'll just have to wait a few years. I hope I live to see it !! :(

twoNeurons
Dec 20, 2010, 10:34 PM
I'll admit, after AC canceled their YVR-KIX(Osaka) flight, I flew family into Seattle on Delta's new direct SEA-KIX flight.

It was less convenient for us, but much more convenient for them.

Saying that, we won't do it again, as US import laws are super strict when it comes to bringing in pretty much any meat products, (Even chicken-flavored instant noodle packages) and so they had half their FOOD luggage confiscated and disposed of. They definitely came out with a bad taste in their mouth when it comes to traveling through the US.

And yes, they had Chinese employees trained to read Chinese characters like 鶏肉、as well as the Japanese-transliteration: チッケン。

Be that as it may, most people won't have the same concerns and would prefer a direct flight.

whatnext
Dec 20, 2010, 11:40 PM
Perhaps people are just flying from Seattle instead?

I'd heard speculation that with AF putting their A380 on the YUL-CDG route, there's too much capacity. I guess Vancouver wasn't generating enough traffic to keep it viable, without the leg out of YUL.

SpongeG
Dec 21, 2010, 3:12 AM
my friends just booked a flight to miami in january - they are flying out of seattle - its about $300 return, all taxes fees etc incl. a flight out of Vancouver was going to be just over $600

Johnny Aussie
Dec 21, 2010, 4:17 AM
G'day all and happy holidays from Melbourne.

I think the loss of the "direct" YVR-CDG flight was more of a loss to YUL than YVR. I mean, even though it was a direct flight, it wasn't really truly a real direct flight. The morning flight to YUL was always a 763 anyway, by changing the flight number from 150 to 828 (or whatever it was) and by putting it through to CDG was just aircraft utilisation. Perhaps a little different than the YYZ-YUL-BRU and the YYZ-YUL-GVA which I will take a stab at and say there would be more pax travelling from YYZ to both BRU than GVA than YVR to CDG on the "direct" flight anyway. I didn't really see it as a direct flight despite the definition of a "direct flight". Besides it is over 800 miles longer to CDG through YUL than LHR or AMS for eg. Until there is a non-stop YVR-CDG flight (other than Transat) I won't believe there is such a thing.

Now... gotta finish packing les bags for the llllooonnnnggggg flight to YVR via SYD... very much looking fwd to the flight!

PS... when you grow up in Canada it is hard to be festive in a place where it is 30+ degrees - even if they do decorate with snowy scenes and play the same Christmas carols.. it just does not work for me.... LOL

Rusty Gull
Dec 30, 2010, 6:11 AM
Well, it's official. The rift between the federal government with Air Canada and UAE has morphed into an international incident. The latest diplomatic fiasco is making headlines around the world.

It begs the question: Is protecting Air Canada really worth all of this? (and please forumers, don't bother playing the patriotism card with me on this one.)

UAE: New fees for visiting Canadians
By Mohammed Jamjoom, CNN
December 30, 2010 12:03 a.m. EST
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
A dispute over airline landing rights is going to cost Canadians visiting the UAE
The United Arab Emirates says that starting January Canadians will pay a visa fee
Until now, Canadians have not had to obtain a visa or pay fees to visit the UAE

(CNN) -- Beginning in January, Canadian citizens visiting the United Arab Emirates will have to pay as much as 1,000 Canadian dollars to obtain a visa, according to the website of the UAE Embassy in Ottawa.
This major change in policy is the most recent development in the ongoing altercation between both countries over airline landing rights.
Canadians, who until now have been allowed entry into the UAE without a visa and free of charge, will not only be required to pay for a visa starting next month, they'll also have to apply for one at least 15 days before departure. According to the embassy, Canadians will be charged 250 Canadian dollars for a 30 day visa, $500 Canadian for a three month visa, and $1,000 Canadian for a six-month multiple entry visa. (The Canadian dollar is almost exactly equivalent in currency value to the U.S. dollar.)
At the heart of the dispute are the number of flights per week that UAE airlines are able to make into Canada. The UAE. maintains that the current level of six weekly flights for its carriers, Ettihad and Emirtaes, simply doesn't come close to meeting rising demand.
In a statement from the UAE ambassador to Canada, Mohammed Al-Ghafli, posted on the embassy's website, he lamented the breakdown in discussions between both governments:
"The UAE is disappointed that despite intensive negotiations over the last few months the UAE and Canada have been unable to arrive at an agreement on expanding the number of flights between the two countries," Al-Ghafli said in the statement. "It is unfortunate that this process has been so protracted and frustrating. The UAE entered negotiations in good faith on the understanding that a solution would be reached and that constructive ideas would be brought to the table. The fact that this has not come about undoubtedly affects the bilateral relationship."
According to Al-Ghafli's statement, 25,000 Canadians live in the U.A.E., 200 Canadian companies are active in the UAE now, and the UAE. is Canada's largest trade partner in the Middle East and North Africa. "Six flights per week." added Al-Ghafli, "does not service the economic needs of both countries or the potential for growth."
CNN could not reach the embassy of Canada in Abu Dhabi for comment

Yume-sama
Dec 30, 2010, 6:23 AM
This will hurt the UAE far more than Canada. I'm NOT paying $1000 to visit there. Ever.

SpikePhanta
Dec 30, 2010, 6:40 AM
Protecting Air Canada = protecting canadian jobs according to some people!

Rusty Gull
Dec 30, 2010, 6:48 AM
This will hurt the UAE far more than Canada.

Are you sure about this?

According to the Globe and Mail, "Canada and Dubai do an estimated $1.5-billion in bilateral trade annually. Lawyers, architects, oil experts and other industry leaders have been flocking to the Persian Gulf nation – a gateway to the rest of the Middle East, as well as Africa and Asia. Multinationals, such as Bombardier, are there bidding on lucrative contracts. Experts say all this trade and travel will be put at risk if relations degrade further."

teriyaki
Dec 30, 2010, 6:59 AM
Are you sure about this?

According to the Globe and Mail, "Canada and Dubai do an estimated $1.5-billion in bilateral trade annually. Lawyers, architects, oil experts and other industry leaders have been flocking to the Persian Gulf nation – a gateway to the rest of the Middle East, as well as Africa and Asia. Multinationals, such as Bombardier, are there bidding on lucrative contracts. Experts say all this trade and travel will be put at risk if relations degrade further."

This. I believe there are a lot more business transaction type trips than casual tourists that go to that area. With this in-place, there could be a lot less business being done between the two countries.

In any case, I think its pretty safe to say that any barrier to trade will hurt the countries involved in this growing global economy.

I don't think this argument has run its course though, they'll certainly be more talks in the future. UAE sure isn't playing nice though are they :shrug:

Waders
Dec 30, 2010, 7:06 AM
The following quote sums up my thinking about this dispute.

However it chooses to respond, Ottawa should first and foremost make clear that it will in no way concede any ground to threats and tantrums. If the UAE chooses to continue its existence without the benefit of visitors from Canada, too bad for the UAE. Canadian exports to UAE for the entire year are roughly equal to one day’s trade with the U.S. That’s pretty indicative of the amount of time Canada should expend on this dispute until the UAE’s rulers change their tactics.

Source:http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/12/29/kelly-mcparland-temper-tantrums-in-the-uae/#ixzz19ZmrERrh

jlousa
Dec 30, 2010, 7:11 AM
The UAE is going to shoot itself in the foot on this one, if Canada does not back down it won't have to stand alone for long as other nations will join suit. The UAE certainly fails to grasp how things work and isn't making many friends of late.

Canadian Mind
Dec 30, 2010, 7:38 AM
Are you sure about this?

According to the Globe and Mail, "Canada and Dubai do an estimated $1.5-billion in bilateral trade annually. Lawyers, architects, oil experts and other industry leaders have been flocking to the Persian Gulf nation – a gateway to the rest of the Middle East, as well as Africa and Asia. Multinationals, such as Bombardier, are there bidding on lucrative contracts. Experts say all this trade and travel will be put at risk if relations degrade further."

That's economically insignificant. Trade with Dubai amounts to about 0.06% of our GDP per year.

My knee jerk reaction would be to shut them out entirely. But we'd lose friends and the moral high ground. Better to let the U.A.E. show themselves to be the young, inexperienced, and childish nation that they are. Sure it's an annoyance, but it isn't going to hurt us any. It could cripple them.

giallo
Dec 30, 2010, 9:14 AM
While I'm no fan of Canadian protectionism, the UAE government can go fuck themselves on this one. They look ridiculous in my eyes and in the eyes of my continentally (sic) diverse group of friends here in China.

nova9
Dec 30, 2010, 9:24 AM
While I'm no fan of Canadian protectionism, the UAE government can go fuck themselves on this one. They look ridiculous in my eyes and in the eyes of my continentally (sic) diverse group of friends here in China.

i tend to agree. i was on UAE's side over the protection of AC routes BUT when you escalate the argument to beyond flight routes and punish citizens directly, then that shows a lot of immaturity. i would like to think that the Western powers that deal with the UAE (so all Western countries) would take notice of this tactic of punitive visa fees and re-assess how they function in the UAE.

GeeCee
Dec 30, 2010, 9:52 AM
Both sides are being idiotic.

Canadian Mind
Dec 30, 2010, 10:17 AM
Both sides are being idiotic.

I'm pretty sure in time an agreement would have been signed, but we did the right thing not succumbing to blackmail. Even if we were to give them more landing rights down the road, it would have been spineless and made us look domestically weak to allow ourselves to be pushed around by such a punitive nation.

And frankly, even with the original fiasco, U.A.E. was well within their rights too. But escalating it the way they have after we already met the terms of 1 of the options they presented us is outlandish.

But, better to be dignified and ignore them then to do anything else. What's the worst that'll happen?

whatnext
Dec 30, 2010, 5:20 PM
Well, it's official. The rift between the federal government with Air Canada and UAE has morphed into an international incident. The latest diplomatic fiasco is making headlines around the world.

It begs the question: Is protecting Air Canada really worth all of this? (and please forumers, don't bother playing the patriotism card with me on this one.)


What card are you playing, when you put the interest of some despot's pet airline above Canada's perceived national interests? The overreaction on this issue has all been on the side of the UAE, who I suppose are used to countries rolling over for them. Trouble is, they really don't have anything Canada needs. The trade figures you mention are insignificant. If you're looking for a trade issue to get worked up about, look into how US environmental interests are looking to block shipments of Canadian oil from the West Coast, something that will do us far more lasting damage than some camel jockeys throwing a hissy fit.

Ottawa granted Qatar expanded air rights (http://www.canada.com/news/Canada+Qatar+airline+deal+take/3812753/story.html), after only three days of negotiations which shows they are willing to deal with reasonable requests from the region. This is a "no lose" issue for the Tories.

trofirhen
Dec 30, 2010, 11:09 PM
Both sides are being idiotic.

I'm pretty sure in time an agreement would have been signed, but we did the right thing not succumbing to blackmail. Even if we were to give them more landing rights down the road, it would have been spineless and made us look domestically weak to allow ourselves to be pushed around by such a punitive nation.

And frankly, even with the original fiasco, U.A.E. was well within their rights too. But escalating it the way they have after we already met the terms of 1 of the options they presented us is outlandish.

But, better to be dignified and ignore them then to do anything else. What's the worst that'll happen?

What card are you playing, when you put the interest of some despot's pet airline above Canada's perceived national interests? The overreaction on this issue has all been on the side of the UAE, who I suppose are used to countries rolling over for them. Trouble is, they really don't have anything Canada needs. The trade figures you mention are insignificant. If you're looking for a trade issue to get worked up about, look into how US environmental interests are looking to block shipments of Canadian oil from the West Coast, something that will do us far more lasting damage than some camel jockeys throwing a hissy fit.

Ottawa granted Qatar expanded air rights (http://www.canada.com/news/Canada+Qatar+airline+deal+take/3812753/story.html), after only three days of negotiations which shows they are willing to deal with reasonable requests from the region. This is a "no lose" issue for the Tories.
:previous: :previous: :previous:
:previous: :previous: :previous:
A synthesis, for me, would be this:

1: Would allowing Emirates unlimited access to Toronto, as seems its main goal in Canada, plus perhaps dailies to Vancouver and Calgary, cut into Air Canada's revenues, or not? If yes, by how much, in your estimation.

2: Does Emirates (and this is vital to know) sell tickets at sub-par prices, thereby luring and siphoning off traffic that would otherwise go with Air Canada?

Is Dubai, as a destination hub, located such that (presumably) Europe or Asia-bound passengers would find it worthwhile routing through Dubai,? Is the polar route not more direct, anyway?
And if this is the case, can it be presumed that Emirates' fares are markedly lower?
>> Is then not therefore a core issue - the Dubai state subvention of Emirates?

Also, which destination markets would it serve from Canada, other than a destination in and of itsef? >>>>> (Oil industry people might use it, especially out of Calgary, but that would be for Dubai and the UAE themselves,and involve a largely specific market).

3: If none of the above are the case, then which markets would Canada lose passengers - and money - to? And therefore where is the threat to our economy?

4: People have mentioned future routes to Delhi and other cities in India as possibilites in the not-too-distant future. Given that direct service there is both very possible (from YVR, anyway, as Air India already serves Toronto, I believe), is this the market (india) that people who reject the entry of Emirtes (and neighbours) are protecting?

In summum, can anybody explain the refusal of Emirates request for increased Canadian access? What is their intense interest in getting further access? What are their goals? What are Canada's potential losses?

Never mind their arm-twisting. They're playing hardball> What is to win, and what is at stake?? >>> Explanations?

Yume-sama
Dec 31, 2010, 4:17 AM
Well, considering Air Canada doesn't *actually* fly to Dubai, it would be impossible to compare fares. However, Emirates fares are usually about the same as everyone else, from what I've seen in the USA. People just choose them for their famous service, as they do Singapore, Cathay Pacific, etc, or the novelty of being on an A380. Nonetheless, Dubai has been scratched off my list because of the Visa requirement and exorbitant fee. I'm going to assume most of the Canadian traffic is *to* Dubai, and not *from*, so I do believe it will hurt them economically more than us.

I have to believe there is more to this than we know. I refuse to believe it's *just* about landing rights and Air Canada.

Someone must have done something, diplomatically :P Where's THAT Wikileak when you need it!

EDIT: Just did a search~ January 12th - 19th:
Air Canada from Toronto through Frankfurt (connecting with Lufthansa) with 8 hour layover - $705
Emirates direct from Toronto $1495

twoNeurons
Dec 31, 2010, 4:39 AM
Seriously hilarious.

I think this is really good news, though, in the end. If Canadians have to pay a visa to enter, it will certainly be in India and Canada's best interests to start direct flights sooner, rather than later.

In turn, Dubai will have to reduce its rates to compensate for the visa requirement.

YVR-DEL here we come.

trofirhen
Dec 31, 2010, 10:02 AM
Seriously hilarious.

I think this is really good news, though, in the end. If Canadians have to pay a visa to enter, it will certainly be in India and Canada's best interests to start direct flights sooner, rather than later.

In turn, Dubai will have to reduce its rates to compensate for the visa requirement.

YVR-DEL here we come.
:previous:
This seems to be the fulcrum of the matter. Yes! Get that service to India up and running ASAP.

zahav
Jan 4, 2011, 3:38 AM
Philippine Airlines will start flying its 777 extended range aircraft on some of its flights to YVR (the flights that don't go to Vegas). The capacity is much bigger than its current 340 service (370 seats vs. 264 on the 340). Will be a nice summer addition :)

usog
Jan 8, 2011, 8:41 PM
http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/166679--direct-flights-to-honolulu-seven-days-a-week

Ha...Ha...Ha...Ha. I've seen ads for this everywhere, they've even got it on that huge and bright billboard leading to the pattullo bridge.

On another note, why is YVR-SFO so expensive, twice as much to fly to LAX, and almost never on sale? Bellingham to Oakland is so much cheaper too. D=<

SpongeG
Jan 8, 2011, 10:58 PM
Now you can fly to Hawaii from Bellingham

Seattle-based Alaska Airlines is launching nonstop service Friday between Bellingham and Honolulu, aimed at travelers from the Vancouver, B.C. area.

"With roots in the Pacific Northwest spanning many decades, we're delighted to kick off Bellingham's first-ever nonstop service to Hawaii," Joe Sprague, Alaska Airlines' vice president of marketing, said in a news release. "Our new Honolulu flights offer travelers north of Seattle and the Lower Mainland of British Columbia great, low fares and easy access to some of Hawaii's most popular beaches."

...

http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/archives/234798.asp

trofirhen
Jan 8, 2011, 11:45 PM
http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/166679--direct-flights-to-honolulu-seven-days-a-week

Ha...Ha...Ha...Ha. I've seen ads for this everywhere, they've even got it on that huge and bright billboard leading to the pattullo bridge.

On another note, why is YVR-SFO so expensive, twice as much to fly to LAX, and almost never on sale? Bellingham to Oakland is so much cheaper too. D=<

Now you can fly to Hawaii from Bellingham

Seattle-based Alaska Airlines is launching nonstop service Friday between Bellingham and Honolulu, aimed at travelers from the Vancouver, B.C. area.

"With roots in the Pacific Northwest spanning many decades, we're delighted to kick off Bellingham's first-ever nonstop service to Hawaii," Joe Sprague, Alaska Airlines' vice president of marketing, said in a news release. "Our new Honolulu flights offer travelers north of Seattle and the Lower Mainland of British Columbia great, low fares and easy access to some of Hawaii's most popular beaches."

...

http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/archives/234798.asp
:previous:
..... and, frankly, I wish them all the success in the world. I'm so sick of tight-ass Canadian restrictions that next time I fly home, it'll be on DELTA or AF ... nonstop to Seattle.

Vanzunator
Jan 10, 2011, 3:59 PM
From a 747-400 to 777-200 to 767-300:

from AIRLINE Route: JAL from 27MAR11 is reducing capacity on Tokyo Narita – Vancouver service. From this date for Summer 2011 season, Boeing 767-300ER is replacing Boeing 777-200ER aircraft.
Schedule:

JL018 NRT1740 – 1045YVR 767 D
JL017 YVR1220 – 1430+1NRT 767 D

http://airlineroute.net/2011/01/10/jl-yvr-s11/

twoNeurons
Jan 10, 2011, 5:09 PM
Not surprising considering all the extra capacity Air Canada will have on the YVR-NAR & HND routes. I just hope that JAL doesn't drop the route... if that happens, Air Canada will jack up the prices.

Gordon
Jan 10, 2011, 5:26 PM
JAL is still in fairly tough shape financially, AC flies a 777 to NAR & in March AC starts it's Haneda service. so there likely won't be much change in capacity to Tokyo

vanlaw
Jan 10, 2011, 7:03 PM
Now you can fly to Hawaii from Bellingham

Seattle-based Alaska Airlines is launching nonstop service Friday between Bellingham and Honolulu, aimed at travelers from the Vancouver, B.C. area.

"With roots in the Pacific Northwest spanning many decades, we're delighted to kick off Bellingham's first-ever nonstop service to Hawaii," Joe Sprague, Alaska Airlines' vice president of marketing, said in a news release. "Our new Honolulu flights offer travelers north of Seattle and the Lower Mainland of British Columbia great, low fares and easy access to some of Hawaii's most popular beaches."

...

http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/archives/234798.asp

I just checked on Alaska's site - they have fares in Feb/March at approx $350USD tax in round trip....pretty sweet given the CDN$ right now. Two tix for less than price of one from YVR.

Edit: Westjet is making a decent effort here - $546 out of YVR. Not too bad, considering when i booked my BLI-HNL flight on Alaska early December for Feb travel, WJ was up at $750ish.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 17, 2011, 5:37 AM
Just returned to Australia after another couple of awesome long-haul flights on AC (and a couple of not so awesome short-haul AC, QF, AA and UA flights)

Just stumbled across this news tid bit...

YVR continues to be all about Asia in 2011....

After years of speculation and rumours, CZ to finally launch 3 weekly CAN-YVR flights effective 15 June 2011.

Equipment to be 77L.

So now YVR is getting CZ plus CZ Cargo...

Source:

http://airlineroute.net/2011/01/16/cz-amsyvr-s11/

SpongeG
Jan 17, 2011, 6:53 AM
some cathay pacific flight to new york had to turn back twice to vancouver

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Smelly+flight+makes+emergency+landings+Vancouver/4116904/story.html

Spork
Jan 17, 2011, 7:02 AM
some cathay pacific flight to new york had to turn back twice to vancouver

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Smelly+flight+makes+emergency+landings+Vancouver/4116904/story.html

Uh oh. Taking that same flight in about a month. :o

Yume-sama
Jan 17, 2011, 7:10 AM
That flight has had a lot of things happen to it this past year lol

deasine
Jan 17, 2011, 11:41 AM
Uh oh. Taking that same flight in about a month. :o

Just a word of warning, not that it's related the the flight incident, but due to the FA and GC Union-Management wars in Hong Kong, GCs here follow rules down to the wire now: handcarries not over 7kg, and luggage not over 23kg.

twoNeurons
Jan 20, 2011, 5:01 AM
^^^previous^^^

Is it temporary?

Gordon
Jan 20, 2011, 6:09 AM
A customer service clerk at YVR says that China Southern has not yet announced a start date for the YVR - CAN route.

The flights are available on China Southern's website www.csair.com\e but not on expedia.ca or travelocity.ca.

Yume-sama
Jan 20, 2011, 6:21 AM
AC has supposedly "postponed" (maybe a nice word for canceled?) their YVR - HND flight commencement. A friend of mine was planning to book from HND - YVR round trip and was told of this "indefinite" postponement today on the phone with AC. My guess is due to the odd timing of flights the pre-bookings were very slow. Oddly, the flight still shows up on their website. Though, nearly the entire aircraft is empty for the first flight on March 3rd, whereas the YVR - NRT flight is completely booked, I'm assuming they moved people over to that flight.

trofirhen
Jan 20, 2011, 6:44 AM
Boy ... if / when YVR gets a scheduled service to Paris, will it be to CDG or Orly? I'm losing sleep over it already. :D

xd_1771
Jan 20, 2011, 6:58 AM
Philippine Airlines will start flying its 777 extended range aircraft on some of its flights to YVR (the flights that don't go to Vegas). The capacity is much bigger than its current 340 service (370 seats vs. 264 on the 340). Will be a nice summer addition :)

Excellent. I've had nice views of the 773ER already while I was in Manila this winter break. The additional capacity over that weak 343 should prove very useful. I was hoping they'd do this :)

deasine
Jan 20, 2011, 8:20 AM
^^^previous^^^

Is it temporary?

It's going to be in effect until the management settles something with the union (or vice versa). Analyzing this situation though, it's going to take a long time because neither party seems to be willing to move. CX has had record profits last year and has given everyone pay increases. The Union wants to take this opportunity to fight for even more money and benefits.

Until then, handcarries are strictly 7 kg (excluding weight of laptop, which they'll kindly ask you to remove out of your handcarry when measuring), and regular luggages are 23 kg.


Boy ... if / when YVR gets a scheduled service to Paris, will it be to CDG or Orly? I'm losing sleep over it already. :D

Stop beating a dead horse. But anyways, answering that question, it will not be ORY. There are few airlines that fly there, no Star Alliance carriers, making ORY a final-destination airport as opposed to a transfer airport. Keep in mind, carriers generally only fly to the "smaller" of the main airports if it uses that airport as a main hub, or it needs to take off demand for another route. This is particularly one reason why AC is planning to fly to both NRT and HAN. NRT will act as more of a transfer hub, and HAN as a final destination airport.

Aside from the low demand on a YVR-CDG route, YVR serves few SkyTeam airlines (meaning it won't be a good hub for AF-KL to connect with DL), and CDG is not a Star Alliance hub either (competition from LHR and FRA). This is why AF flies to SEA and not YVR, because there are so many more connections with partner carrier DL (also keep in mind, SEA was once a hub for DL, only now has it been downgraded to a focus city). Even if WS joins SkyTeam, there are still not enough connections and not enough demand. Keep in mind, charter carrier Transat only flies direct to CDG seasonally, and it's only 1-2 times a week.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 20, 2011, 9:44 AM
A customer service clerk at YVR says that China Southern has not yet announced a start date for the YVR - CAN route.

No offence to the customer service clerk at YVR, but Chinese airlines are not known for being prompt with press releases when announcing new services. Therefore, not surprising, he or she does not know about it.

However, these flights are loaded in various GDS and effective 15 June 2011.

How soon 'til the next big announcement / new service?

Johnny Aussie
Jan 20, 2011, 9:58 AM
Sorry as I sound like a broken record, but here we go again....

Not a massive bump, but still not bad...

CX increasing its second daily flight to HKG (CX 839) to all 744 versus a mix of 744/343. Summer 2010 the flight was 3 weekly 744 and 4 weekly 343. Summer 2011 (up to today) was planned to be 4/wkly 744 and 3/wkly 343. Now all daily 744 effective end of March.

Increase is about 370 seats per week.

Gordon
Jan 20, 2011, 3:24 PM
Accordong to Air Canada's Website the YVR HND service starts in March.

Yume-sama
Jan 20, 2011, 4:49 PM
Accordong to Air Canada's Website the YVR HND service starts in March.

Yeah, you just can't book it anymore mysteriously. There have been news reports in Japan about just how bad the new terminal at Haneda is. No places to eat, no trains, no buses, etc. nothing to kill time during those hours. The only hotel is the Tokyu in the ANA terminal, and the shuttle bus for that stops at 11 pm! You're pretty much trapped overnight unless you pay $200 for a taxi lol

teriyaki
Jan 20, 2011, 5:51 PM
Yeah, you just can't book it anymore mysteriously. There have been news reports in Japan about just how bad the new terminal at Haneda is. No places to eat, no trains, no buses, etc. nothing to kill time during those hours. The only hotel is the Tokyu in the ANA terminal, and the shuttle bus for that stops at 11 pm! You're pretty much trapped overnight unless you pay $200 for a taxi lol

Also found news reports saying how massively popular the new terminal is, even becoming a travelling destination itself for the locals.

A surprising name recently has joined the pantheon of popular Tokyo tourist spots--Haneda Airport's international terminal.

Since the international terminal opened in October, it has been inundated with visitors who came to the airport not for flights but to stroll the terminal itself. The sightseers outnumber genuine air passengers by more than 2-to-1 on weekends and holidays, according to the airport...

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110111004700.htm

Gordon
Jan 20, 2011, 6:08 PM
It looks like they are accepting reservations, I've only gone as far as the page that requests personal information but it does seem that is possible to complete a reservation.

Yume-sama
Jan 20, 2011, 7:59 PM
I'm sure it's a nice terminal, but the majority of the timeslots for international travel are far too inconvenient except for local residents of Tokyo who are willing to drive. Which is probably why the flights are empty to HND and fully booked to NRT on the same day. Anyways, we will see but Air Canada would not let him book by phone for HND - YVR for March 4th.

I'm also not surprised the terminal is more popular as a tourist destination than a paying customer destination. Japan has a huge population of spotters and enough people to become obsessed with anything, there's a museum for literally everything in Tokyo, from toilets to dentistry.

Gordon
Jan 20, 2011, 9:04 PM
Air Canada does'nt seem to have and e mail address for reservations or general inquireies which seems rather strange.

If they do cancel HND what are the chances of addindg a 2nd flight Narita with a decent landing slot?

satishreddy
Jan 21, 2011, 12:54 AM
AC has supposedly "postponed" (maybe a nice word for canceled?) their YVR - HND flight commencement. A friend of mine was planning to book from HND - YVR round trip and was told of this "indefinite" postponement today on the phone with AC. My guess is due to the odd timing of flights the pre-bookings were very slow. Oddly, the flight still shows up on their website. Though, nearly the entire aircraft is empty for the first flight on March 3rd, whereas the YVR - NRT flight is completely booked, I'm assuming they moved people over to that flight.

After seeing your message, I tried some dummy bookings. I made all the way to the page just before having to buy a ticket. The flights to HND seem to be in the system. As you say, there appear to be many empty seats. One interesting/curious fact: it costs $2700 on Tango Plus (the lowest class) one way before taxes, surcharges, etc for a trip between YVR and HND. The flight between YVR and NRT is less than $500 for the day I looked. Why is there such a price difference? Is there truly a sufficient market that is willing to pay so much to fly to HND?

Yume-sama
Jan 21, 2011, 1:12 AM
They seem to *only* let you book Tango Plus, and yeah, the prices are about $6000 round trip.

Seems to me the flights only technically still exist, and haven't been taken out of their database, rather put a price nobody would pay.

They seem to have moved everyone over to the NRT flight, which is booked 100%. I'm sure we'll hear something soon.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 21, 2011, 1:27 AM
They seem to *only* let you book Tango Plus, and yeah, the prices are about $6000 round trip.

Seems to me the flights only technically still exist, and haven't been taken out of their database, rather put a price nobody would pay.

They seem to have moved everyone over to the NRT flight, which is booked 100%. I'm sure we'll hear something soon.

Strange.

However, if you look into (say) April or May, all booking classes are available. So perhaps the flight is getting postponed into April?

If the route does get canned, it certainly won't be the first time a route is stopped even before it is started.

Perhaps a second NRT retimed to a more decent schedule would work.

Or perhaps rejig the capacity to China (say a second PVG or a new YVR-PVG-CAN(hmmm?) to compete with the new CZ service) as other carriers to China are really going for it!

trofirhen
Jan 21, 2011, 3:10 AM
Stop beating a dead horse. But anyways, answering that question, it will not be ORY. There are few airlines that fly there, no Star Alliance carriers, making ORY a final-destination airport as opposed to a transfer airport. Keep in mind, carriers generally only fly to the "smaller" of the main airports if it uses that airport as a main hub, or it needs to take off demand for another route. This is particularly one reason why AC is planning to fly to both NRT and HAN. NRT will act as more of a transfer hub, and HAN as a final destination airport.

Aside from the low demand on a YVR-CDG route, YVR serves few SkyTeam airlines (meaning it won't be a good hub for AF-KL to connect with DL), and CDG is not a Star Alliance hub either (competition from LHR and FRA). This is why AF flies to SEA and not YVR, because there are so many more connections with partner carrier DL (also keep in mind, SEA was once a hub for DL, only now has it been downgraded to a focus city). Even if WS joins SkyTeam, there are still not enough connections and not enough demand. Keep in mind, charter carrier Transat only flies direct to CDG seasonally, and it's only 1-2 times a week.

Thank you for the timely reprimand, Deasine.
In fact, I wasn't beating a dead horse, since I know folks are sick of my Paris rantings.
I was just adding a touch of cynicism to the page.
However ... you did provide me with a lot of useful insight, and I thank you for that. Nevertheless, what I cannot understand is why Air France flies to smaller cities like Cincinnati and Salt Lake City? It must have to do with connections. Oh ... and as you know Korean Air is a Skyteam Airline, but of course, doesn't have the volume of the Star Alliance group that seems to dominate YVR.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 21, 2011, 3:41 AM
Thank you for the timely reprimand, Deasine.
In fact, I wasn't beating a dead horse, since I know folks are sick of my Paris rantings.
I was just adding a touch of cynicism to the page.
However ... you did provide me with a lot of useful insight, and I thank you for that. Nevertheless, what I cannot understand is why Air France flies to smaller cities like Cincinnati and Salt Lake City? It must have to do with connections. Oh ... and as you know Korean Air is a Skyteam Airline, but of course, doesn't have the volume of the Star Alliance group that seems to dominate YVR.

CVG (sort of still is for now) and SLC are big hubs for DL hence the SkyTeam connection.

However, out of SEA, there is really not much DL activity to other than their US hubs which pretty much are all covered by numeours CDG flights anyway... other DL flights out of SEA are other European (well.. AMS) and Asian flights (NRT, PEK and KIX).

I don't recall DL every having a hub at SEA. PDX definitely did though when it used to run its Asian network out of there many years ago...

As for YVR skyteam will be limited to KL, KE, DL, the upcoming CZ and perhaps AM if that happens too.