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deasine
Jan 21, 2011, 5:44 AM
Thank you for the timely reprimand, Deasine.
In fact, I wasn't beating a dead horse, since I know folks are sick of my Paris rantings.
I was just adding a touch of cynicism to the page.
However ... you did provide me with a lot of useful insight, and I thank you for that. Nevertheless, what I cannot understand is why Air France flies to smaller cities like Cincinnati and Salt Lake City? It must have to do with connections. Oh ... and as you know Korean Air is a Skyteam Airline, but of course, doesn't have the volume of the Star Alliance group that seems to dominate YVR.

CVG (sort of still is for now) and SLC are big hubs for DL hence the SkyTeam connection.

However, out of SEA, there is really not much DL activity to other than their US hubs which pretty much are all covered by numeours CDG flights anyway... other DL flights out of SEA are other European (well.. AMS) and Asian flights (NRT, PEK and KIX).

I don't recall DL every having a hub at SEA. PDX definitely did though when it used to run its Asian network out of there many years ago...

As for YVR skyteam will be limited to KL, KE, DL, the upcoming CZ and perhaps AM if that happens too.

I think I mixed up SEA and PDX, but note there is much more DL activity over at SEA than at YVR. In fact, according to Routes Online, DL is reducing capacity over to YVR now.

Note, AF has codeshare agreements with AS, and AS uses SEA as a hub.

Also note, as you pointed out trofirhen, AF flies to SLC and CVG because those are DL hubs.

As for KE (note they are increasing capacity later this year), there is a demand here! Vancouver has a large Korean base. And even then, KE also caters for many connecting passengers to other Asian destinations. Look at CI, there are often more Indians, Vietnamese, and Filipino passengers than Taiwanese passengers.

twoNeurons
Jan 21, 2011, 7:43 AM
I have a flight to Haneda at the end of March. I seriously hope it doesn't change to Narita. I specifically wanted the late take-off time from Vancouver.

The only issue is the late arrival (22:30). You have to make sure you catch a train out of there before 23:30, otherwise, you're waiting for 4 hours before the trains start up again.

Yume-sama
Jan 21, 2011, 8:37 PM
The only issue is the late arrival (22:30). You have to make sure you catch a train out of there before 23:30, otherwise, you're waiting for 4 hours before the trains start up again.

Yeah, and according to news reports *all* of the shops and restaurants close at 9PM, which is very... odd... for a terminal that has flights all night long now.

Supposedly they also have *very few* immigration staff after 9PM, too, so expect a much longer wait.

For as big as Tokyo is they could certainly work on making it more of a 24h accessible city lol. 24h trains would be a start.

Surely a good % of the 30 million people in Metro Tokyo don't go to bed by 11:30PM.

But it's not very Japanese to ask the question of "Why" things are done they way they are lol. That's just the way it is.

SpongeG
Jan 21, 2011, 9:13 PM
lots of airports shut up early though - YVR has had most things closed when i have had to pick someone up after 10 pm - 7-11 and a handful of food stuff was open but that was about it

Yume-sama
Jan 21, 2011, 9:20 PM
Yeah, but YVR isn't designed to operate primarily (over 30,000 flights per year) between 11PM and 7AM like the new HND terminal.

And only International, too, which means the need for immigration staff is high between those hours :P It seems to be getting a lot of bad coverage in the Japanese media, and Japanese people still give their (admittedly very tabloid-esque sensationalist media) much more weight on their own opinions than we do in the West, perhaps.

Gordon
Jan 21, 2011, 10:17 PM
Yvr has 3-4 flights to Asia between 1- 3am in the morniing during the summer.

Do many American airports run substantial overnight schedules?

SpongeG
Jan 21, 2011, 10:31 PM
my brother flew in from newfoundland once and we had to go pick him up at 2 am! and the airport was quite busy considering the time

Gordon
Jan 26, 2011, 3:23 PM
Air Canada is delaying the start of it's YVR - HND service until they can get a better departure time & therefore better onward connections ( info on ACs website in press release about the expansion of yyc Nar service.

YvR Nar will be 777.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 27, 2011, 8:22 AM
Not really surprised about the dumping of HND. Maybe it will start sometime in the future when they can get a better slot (as Air Canada says).

The NRT flight definitely switching back to 77W. Was wondering about where they were going to get the 77W from. So it looks like the 763 is going to YUL-CDG (to make it a second daily flight to Paris from YUL). But now both of those flights will be 763. So the 77W that was going to be on the YUL-CDG route is going to be the daily YVR-NRT.

So looks like YVR will have 7 daily Air Canada 777 flights next summer:

1 daily 77W to each HKG, NRT, PEK, LHR, YYZ
1 daily 77L to each SYD, YYZ

Johnny Aussie
Jan 27, 2011, 8:28 AM
WS is increasing summer 2011 transborder flying out of YVR by quite a few flights (so will be up to 8 daily).

NEW daily flight to Orange County (SNA)
HNL and OGG both increasing to daily
LAS going to double daily

However, domestically, gone are London (YXU) and Kitchener/Waterloo (YKF). This is being offset by YYZ going up to 9 daily (up from 7 daily last summer). Also slight reductions to YXE and YQR going down to 3 weekly only each.

Overall YVR flying will be up about 2 flights per day compared to summer 2010.

deasine
Jan 27, 2011, 10:25 AM
What I don't understand, and I wasn't aware of this, is why did AC change their redeye YVR-HKG flights and moved it to the afternoon!

phesto
Jan 27, 2011, 5:10 PM
WS is increasing summer 2011 transborder flying out of YVR by quite a few flights (so will be up to 8 daily).

NEW daily flight to Orange County (SNA)
HNL and OGG both increasing to daily
LAS going to double daily

However, domestically, gone are London (YXU) and Kitchener/Waterloo (YKF). This is being offset by YYZ going up to 9 daily (up from 7 daily last summer). Also slight reductions to YXE and YQR going down to 3 weekly only each.

Overall YVR flying will be up about 2 flights per day compared to summer 2010.

Great news. Ultimately the more WS loads up west-coast transborder will benefit YVR.

Gordon
Jan 27, 2011, 5:52 PM
When did UA go to 3X daily on it's YVR ORD route?

twoNeurons
Jan 27, 2011, 6:21 PM
Air Canada is delaying the start of it's YVR - HND service until they can get a better departure time & therefore better onward connections ( info on ACs website in press release about the expansion of yyc Nar service.

YvR Nar will be 777.

Have you got a link to this news release?

usog
Jan 27, 2011, 6:39 PM
Have you got a link to this news release?

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=409

What were the time restrictions on the international flights for HND again? Surely they can do better than midnight.

Yume-sama
Jan 27, 2011, 7:01 PM
Air Canada is delaying the start of it's YVR - HND service until they can get a better departure time & therefore better onward connections ( info on ACs website in press release about the expansion of yyc Nar service.

YvR Nar will be 777.

Unfortunate to see I wasn't crazy this time! :yes:

International flights at HND are primarily between 11PM and 7AM. There are *no* domestic connections during those hours.

No shops open, and no trains / buses running. So, there's very little point of actually flying in to HND unless you have people picking you up. It's also not attractive to tourists because who wants to pay for a night at a hotel when you don't get in until 2AM? HND will begin offering international day-time flights (mostly to Korea, China, and Hawaii). AC could try to get a slot there but the landing fees will be extra, extra, pricey!!!

There have been more complaints in the Japanese media about the new runways causing a lot of flight delays now, something which Japanese people are just not used to. If you've ever been on a JAL, ANA, etc. flight you'll know how PROFUSELY the pilot apologizes if they're even 5 minutes late. It throws off the whole schedule! Trains! Everything! ;)

Many people are wondering why a new airport wasn't built. Even though KIX was a huge white elephant :P

Gordon
Jan 27, 2011, 7:17 PM
Why would ac not have either waited for a better landing slot at HND or if they are really serious about about increasing capacity from YVR to Tokyo investigate a 2nd slot at Narita?

Yume-sama
Jan 27, 2011, 7:19 PM
Overnight landing fees aren't as expensive, so I'm guessing they thought they'd try to make a go of it, until nobody booked the flights because of the times. NRT is also the most expensive airport in the World to land at, so, I suppose they thought they'd try HND before coughing up the money to NRT. With the announcement of 5x weekly YYC - NRT now, I do believe they are serious in increasing their Canada - Japan connections~

It's economics. Same reason they abandoned KIX. Astronomical landing fees there!

And they could have foresaw YVR - HND, with domestic connections to KIX. Unfortunately there aren't any connections overnight.

SpongeG
Jan 27, 2011, 8:24 PM
Hawkair moving to Vancouver's main terminal

Company says move means more choice for customers

Tyler Noble
1/25/2011

Major changes are coming to Hawkair's operations at Vancouver International Airport this spring.

After operating out of YVR's south terminal for more than 10 years, Hawkair is moving over to the main terminal as early as the beginning of April.

General Manager Rod Hayward says easier access to Canada Line trains -- which reach downtown Vancouver in just 25 minutes -- is one of the biggest factors in the decision to change terminals.

"I know I've seen many times where half the flight gets off the airplane, hops on the shuttle bus and then goes over to the main terminal, and takes the SkyTrain to Vancouver or downtown."

Hayward says the move will also allow Hawkair to expand relationships with other carriers that currently operate out of the larger main terminal.

...

http://www.cftktv.com/News/Story.aspx?ID=1351753

DKaz
Jan 28, 2011, 12:16 AM
Flying to Haneda would be awesome, especially for cheap@$$es like me who doesn't want to spend more than 1,000 yen on a train fare, Haneda to Shinjuku takes half the time as Narita to Shinjuku on the regular trains... but the last train out of Haneda leaves at just after midnight and doesn't run again until after 5am. The flight would either have to arrive at Haneda by 10pm or after 3am, it wouldn't make sense if the trains arrived between those hours.

I prefer JAL anyway...

trofirhen
Jan 28, 2011, 3:25 AM
WS is increasing summer 2011 transborder flying out of YVR by quite a few flights (so will be up to 8 daily).

NEW daily flight to Orange County (SNA)
HNL and OGG both increasing to daily
LAS going to double daily

Overall YVR flying will be up about 2 flights per day compared to summer 2010.
:previous:
Please, which airport is OGG ?

Yume-sama
Jan 28, 2011, 3:47 AM
Kahului Airport~

Bigtime
Jan 28, 2011, 1:59 PM
Kahului Airport~

Otherwise known as the main Maui airport. :)

Yume-sama
Jan 28, 2011, 6:06 PM
If you refuse to speak Hawaiian maybe :P lol

Bigtime
Jan 28, 2011, 6:08 PM
Humuhumunukunukuapua'a :D

mezzanine
Jan 28, 2011, 10:01 PM
Flying to Haneda would be awesome, especially for cheap@$$es like me who doesn't want to spend more than 1,000 yen on a train fare, Haneda to Shinjuku takes half the time as Narita to Shinjuku on the regular trains... but the last train out of Haneda leaves at just after midnight and doesn't run again until after 5am. The flight would either have to arrive at Haneda by 10pm or after 3am, it wouldn't make sense if the trains arrived between those hours.

I prefer JAL anyway...

I wasn't greatly enthralled with my recent flight, mainly because of the 3/3/3 seating configuration in economy. unless you are a party of 3, you always have a 3rd wheel in your row.

and although i haven't use't ac recently, USB power would have been handy.

Yet the JAL route is CRITICALLY IMPORTANT for competition - when i booked it, it was ~ $200 cheaper than AC.

PS, the JAL stewardesses weren't pretty this time! a harbringer of trouble? :P

deasine
Jan 28, 2011, 10:17 PM
I wasn't greatly enthralled with my recent flight, mainly because of the 3/3/3 seating configuration in economy. unless you are a party of 3, you always have a 3rd wheel in your row.

and although i haven't use't ac recently, USB power would have been handy.

Yet the JAL route is CRITICALLY IMPORTANT for competition - when i booked it, it was ~ $200 cheaper than AC.

PS, the JAL stewardesses weren't pretty this time! a harbringer of trouble? :P

Yeah, the 3/3/3 configuration isn't great.

One thing I have to say is AC's cabin products are exactly the same, whereas many airlines, including JL's have very inconsistent cabin products. There is hardly an airplane that AC uses now without the new Project XM product! JL's product, especially for the YVR-NRT, is a bit old if you ask me, especially for the J and F class.

twoNeurons
Jan 29, 2011, 2:46 AM
Looks like we got our notifications that we're rerouted to NAR today. But, it's strange... apparently, we're on an Airbus... not a 777, with a 2+4+2 config.

Anyone flown on Air Canada A330s to Japan?

Yume-sama
Jan 29, 2011, 3:06 AM
Only before Project XM. It made me boycott them for several years :D

twoNeurons
Jan 29, 2011, 5:51 AM
The only negative of our upcoming trip is that we lost our bulkhead seat with the bassinette position. We had booked early so we GOT the bassinette... now that it's closer to the flight those positions are filled.

Argh! Wonder if I can make a case to Air Canada to give us priority for that seat (assuming other babies aren't there already)

Johnny Aussie
Jan 30, 2011, 4:54 AM
Maple Fun Tours has postponed its intention to commence flights from Osaka and Nagoya to Vancouver until 2012. Apparently there were "snags" to secure aircraft for this summer's planned flights.

More here...

http://www.globeadvisor.com/servlet/ArticleNews/story/gam/20110129/RBTICKERAATL_1

vanlaw
Feb 2, 2011, 10:11 PM
I know this isn’t directly related to YVR, but this seems to have turned into the aviation thread....

Interesting news - Qatar Airways just announced three weekly flights to Doha out of Montreal. This will provide a nice option for Canadians who want to stop off for a few days in the ME on their way to India etc., without having to pay the ridiculous UAE Tourist Visa fees that came in Jan 1.

It also gives Canada direct flight to Qatar just in time for the 2022 FIFA World Cup ;)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/qatar-airways-to-begin-montreal-service/article1891841/

The Montreal route flows out of an agreement signed last October between Canada and Qatar that permits three passenger and three cargo flights per week into Canada.

The flights come as the United Arab Emirates wages a public battle with Canada over its effort to increase the number of flights for Emirates airline.

Ottawa's refusal to give more slots prompted the UAE to kick the Canadian military out of Camp Mirage, a key base in Dubai used to support the war in Afghanistan.

Unlike the UAE, Qatar does not require that Canadian citizens have travel visas.

The operator of Montreal's Pierre Elliott Trudeau International Airport confirmed it was in discussion with Qatar Airways.

vanlaw
Feb 7, 2011, 7:38 PM
Westjet signed an interline agreement with Delta. This is in additon to the one they signed with BA a few months back.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/westjet-partners-up-with-delta/article1897168/

trofirhen
Feb 7, 2011, 8:15 PM
Westjet signed an interline agreement with Delta. This is in additon to the one they signed with BA a few months back.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/westjet-partners-up-with-delta/article1897168/
:previous:
It is clear that Westjet is determined to go places (no pun intended) and is like a carnivore on the prowl at the moment. Good for them!! It's time another airline filled the gap that was left when Air Canada took over Canadian Airlines (formerly CP Air), posing a serious challenge to hegemonic Air Canada.
And the interline agreement with giant Delta, plus the agreement with BA only underscores their ambitions. Go, Westjet, go!! Yay!!!! :tup:

vanlaw
Feb 7, 2011, 10:27 PM
:previous:
It is clear that Westjet is determined to go places (no pun intended) and is like a carnivore on the prowl at the moment. Good for them!! It's time another airline filled the gap that was left when Air Canada took over Canadian Airlines (formerly CP Air), posing a serious challenge to hegemonic Air Canada.
And the interline agreement with giant Delta, plus the agreement with BA only underscores their ambitions. Go, Westjet, go!! Yay!!!! :tup:

I also missed the other one with AA

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/westjet-partners-up-with-delta/article1897168/

“WestJet has an existing interline agreement with American Airlines so the addition of Delta gives it two strong sources of inbound U.S. travellers,” the analyst wrote in a note to clients.

“Both American and Delta have extensive U.S. networks (along with large international networks) with a strong presence in key business markets, which are not well served by WestJet currently.”

On the international front, WestJet has an interline deal with British Airways, and code-share deals with Air France-KLM and Hong Kong-based Cathay Pacific.

It looks like rather than commit itself to one alliance, WJ is happy to work with all parties (Oneworld and Skyteam partners) to shuttle passengers wherever, whenever. How unsually (not for westjet, just generally) pragmatic

Bigtime
Feb 7, 2011, 10:32 PM
Westjet is quickly becoming like Alaska in the US, they have interlines with a whole whack of carriers. I guess it should come as no surprise as I believe Saretsky was with Alaskan for a while before coming over to WS.

vanlaw
Feb 9, 2011, 8:58 PM
This was in the Gobe a few days ago but missed it, only too see it in Gulf News (UAE) today.

Air Canada has renewed for 3 years its codeshare with Jet Airways on Mumbai routing via LHR to protect against Emirates while AC waits for their 787's

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/air-canada-moves-to-protect-mumbai-route/article1894550/

http://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/air-canada-ties-up-with-jet-airways-1.758967

The heavy Canada-India sector via Dubai has proved to be lucrative for Emirates which started its Dubai-Toronto flights in 2007. It introduced the double-decker Airbus A380 in mid-2009 to consolidate its hold on the traffic.

Gordon
Feb 9, 2011, 9:54 PM
All Air Canada is oing is protecting it's YYZ India Market. There is a significant YVR India market wnich some airline should start whether it be AC or an Indian Carrier

twoNeurons
Feb 9, 2011, 11:09 PM
I really feel that Air Canada is being fiscally responsible by waiting for the new point to point 787s, but those planes aren't cheap and they want some kind of hedge to protect the investment.

Once those planes come into service I think we'll see a LOT more flights to second-tier cities (and some 1st tier cities).

They're small enough to serve 2nd tier markets (Which MOST Canadian cities are) but efficient enough to compete with larger jets.

Whether you're a Boeing Boy or an Airbus Afficiando... new generation 787-type planes are great news for Vancouver.

SpongeG
Feb 10, 2011, 6:04 AM
All Air Canada is oing is protecting it's YYZ India Market. There is a significant YVR India market wnich some airline should start whether it be AC or an Indian Carrier

a few years ago gordon campbell made a big announcement about a connection but nothing has come of it yet - kingfisher airlines said it was going to serve the route but still nothing

MalcolmTucker
Feb 10, 2011, 6:54 AM
The amount of traffic the bilateral allows is pretty low. Operating from the Indian side you can only have two flights a week into Vancouver. A Canadian airline can operate either two flights a week or 2100 seats a week, depending on whether a Canadian airline serves India already from another city, and how many flights a week they operate (more than 2 or not).

trofirhen
Feb 10, 2011, 12:37 PM
Whether you're a Boeing Boy or an Airbus Afficiando... new generation 787-type planes are great news for Vancouver.
:previous:
I agree with you 100% .... but the 787s are for Toronto, not for us. And the route to India from Vancouver probably will never materialize, either, despite the market ... It's all for Toronto ... as usual. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong ... please !!)

Gordon
Feb 10, 2011, 3:13 PM
The 787s will end up replacing all 767s in Air Canada's fleet. I think the total order is around 36 planes.

It Looks like the YVR Can route has been cancelled Vancouver does not appear on the reservation listings on China Southern's Website CSair.com

trofirhen
Feb 10, 2011, 8:17 PM
The 787s will end up replacing all 767s in Air Canada's fleet. I think the total order is around 36 planes.

:previous:

Is that true?!?! Whew!! What great news. It almost sounds too good to be true. (I woder what their destinations will be, and where they'll fly out of, given that the 787s are a super-long-haul plane)

Bigtime
Feb 10, 2011, 8:21 PM
I wouldn't get too excited, at the rate the 787 program is going AC may get their first planes in 2020! :D

Johnny Aussie
Feb 10, 2011, 9:48 PM
The 787s will end up replacing all 767s in Air Canada's fleet. I think the total order is around 36 planes.

It Looks like the YVR Can route has been cancelled Vancouver does not appear on the reservation listings on China Southern's Website CSair.com

Don't know what you are looking at but YVR definitely appears on the csair.com website. Can even make a booking if you want.

As for India, it will definitely happen sooner than later. Air India was going to start 3 weekly DEL-FRA-YVR about 2-3 years back but pulled as dropped FRA as a scissor "hub."

Johnny Aussie
Feb 12, 2011, 4:28 AM
Looks like AC has finally finished tweeking its domestic summer scheds. A bit of a shift from last week.

Highlights (compared to S10):

YYZ - up 13 flights per week. (up to 18 daily compared to 16 in S10)
YUL - up 7 p/w (now up to 6 daily compared to 5 in S10)
YYC - up 9 p/w
YXY - up 7 p/w (although only 1 daily E90 and 2 C daily RJ vs 2 daily E90 last summer)
YLW - up 6 p/w
YXT - up 7 p/w

All other routes are status quo except for the odd up/down weekly frequency or 2.

So net change is up 52 flights p/w, split between mainline increase of 24 p/w and Jazz 28 p/w.

trofirhen
Feb 13, 2011, 3:16 PM
As for India, it will definitely happen sooner than later. Air India was going to start 3 weekly DEL-FRA-YVR about 2-3 years back but pulled as dropped FRA as a scissor "hub."
:previous:
Are you saying that direct flights YVR - DEL are in the works? It sounds too good to be true, although I WANT to be believe it.

SpongeG
Feb 13, 2011, 11:26 PM
i think the vancouver people going to india like going via england - visit two sets of relatives on one trip so they don't care or get vocal about wanting direct service perhaps

Yume-sama
Feb 13, 2011, 11:44 PM
Is it even possible to lay over in London for a day or two on the way to India without paying an astronomical fee, or buying a second ticket?

SpongeG
Feb 14, 2011, 12:02 AM
yeah - i've done it and it wasn't that much - you just book your trip in two parts

in my case it worked out about the same

Yume-sama
Feb 14, 2011, 12:05 AM
That's interesting. I know if you fly with the same alliance (say Star Alliance) you can book a 15 segment trip around the World for like $5000 in economy~

First / business worked out to be about $11,000 (it costs up to $6000 just to fly round trip to LHR or NRT from YYC / YVR in Business!)

I suppose they discount on a smaller scale, too :P

SpongeG
Feb 14, 2011, 12:09 AM
well i was flying to south africa - it was 625GBP from london to joburg return i just had to find a flight to london - and a full flight from YVR to Joburg was around $2400 at the time i wanted to go so it was about the same so i just booked a few days in london coming and going

either way - most vancouver flights arrive in london around 6-8 am and the flights out usually leave late evening - like 8-11 pm so you get a good chance to leave heathrow and grab lunch in central london or go visit friends whatever

my friend when he flew to pakistan a few years ago had an 8 or 10 hour layover but didn't leave the airport as they didn't have canadian passports at the time

Yume-sama
Feb 14, 2011, 7:21 PM
:D WestJet released a photo of their first non-Boeing 737 aircraft today. A Boeing 757 that they've leased for a couple months. A sign of things to come??

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/241564819.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1297712192&Signature=053Y67I5ZjhBXvTXO%2BQvcMwVlIU%3D
http://twitpic.com/3ztklv/full

trofirhen
Feb 14, 2011, 7:39 PM
If this article about WESTJET is at all indicative, it would seem they have big ambitions. They're going head-to-head with AC on YYZ-YUL and YYZ-YOW busy commuter routes. So, Yume, your picture of the 757 may indeed be indicative of bigger things to come. I sure hope so.

ps: What's the normal range of a Boeing 757? Apparently, this one is being used for scheduled service from Alberta (Calgary?) to Hawaii.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/100218/westjet-targets-business-travellers-in-canadian-skies/

Bigtime
Feb 14, 2011, 7:46 PM
Isn't the YYZ-YOW-YUL triangle a notorious bloodbath for airlines when they go head to head there? I'm also guessing it is an area that AC will fight to the death on.

As for the range of the 757 I believe it can comfortably operate YYC/YEG-Hawaii with no restrictions. Last year when WS operated these routes with the 737's they had to restrict the number of seats sold, so as to have the range to make the flights work.

trofirhen
Feb 14, 2011, 8:39 PM
[quote=Bigtime;5164257]Isn't the YYZ-YOW-YUL triangle a notorious bloodbath for airlines when they go head to head there? I'm also guessing it is an area that AC will fight to the death on.
quote]
:previous:
Westjet will operate at about 25% the capacity of Air canada on these routes, but with some extra concessions for passengers whose planes are late or who miss a flight. You are right that is is Air Canada's "home plate," if you will, and I doubt that Westjet has any notions of ovetakng it.

The point I was making is that it is brave and ambitious of them to enter that market in the first place, and indicative of possible future expansion: probably within North America, the Caribbean, and Hawaii, but that they may go further afield in the next few years.

Fairbanks
Feb 15, 2011, 12:49 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6woKWuUgp0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYAppQ26E2w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZvgRFWGtqo

Yume-sama
Feb 15, 2011, 1:39 AM
The cabin looks nice, but is any airline even buying the 747-800 for passenger service and not cargo?

It seems unlikely that YVR will see anything beyond a 777 or 787 in the near future.

EDIT: Seems like only Lufthansa (20) and Korean (5) have ordered passenger versions while 74 freighters are on order.

trofirhen
Feb 15, 2011, 2:19 AM
The cabin looks nice, but is any airline even buying the 747-800 for passenger service and not cargo?

It seems unlikely that YVR will see anything beyond a 777 or 787 in the near future.

:previous:
Will we even see 787s here? They are for super-long-haul routes, like LHR to MEL, or YYZ to East Asia or Australia. I don't think Vancouver has any routes that are super-long that would justify 787s -- although there'll soon be more 777s here for sure. I could only imagine 787s on nonexistant routes like Vancouver - Jo'burg, or Vancouver - Mumbai.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

NewfBC
Feb 15, 2011, 2:36 AM
:D WestJet released a photo of their first non-Boeing 737 aircraft today. A Boeing 757 that they've leased for a couple months. A sign of things to come??

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/241564819.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1297712192&Signature=053Y67I5ZjhBXvTXO%2BQvcMwVlIU%3D
http://twitpic.com/3ztklv/full

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wee_in_yyc/5446680518/

Ron.

Bigtime
Feb 15, 2011, 2:52 AM
Flickr now provides the BBcode on the "share this" button:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5132/5446680518_f5ee5f9d08_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wee_in_yyc/5446680518/)
WestJet 757!!! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wee_in_yyc/5446680518/) by Wee in YYC (http://www.flickr.com/people/wee_in_yyc/), on Flickr

Gordon
Feb 15, 2011, 4:07 AM
The 787s may be super long Range but they are also the same the size as the 67s Some of YVR's Asian Routes are more suited to this size of plane nor the 777.

golog
Feb 15, 2011, 6:13 AM
:previous:
Will we even see 787s here?

When Air Canada was upgrading its fleet to include the new seats with personal video screens, they started using them on YVR-YYZ last. They went to the routes that face competition, and ones based near homebase at Toronto/Montreal first. At least that's how I remember it

Yume-sama
Feb 15, 2011, 6:18 AM
Well, supposedly they are still several years off anyways :( Which kind of sucks.

twoNeurons
Feb 15, 2011, 6:47 AM
Sorry, trof... the 787s aren't all about super-long distance. Yes, they have that capability... but it's touted because most jets of that size are used domestically. Due to its lighter weight and ability to handle more powerful nacelles, it is able to travel longer distances.

787s are all about fuel economy and Boeing's gamble that more people will want to fly direct from 2nd tier-cities... rather than be funnelled through overcrowded hubs.

In theory, on a passenger-by-passenger basis, they're supposed to be able to compete with larger jets, because they will be easier to fill and represent less risk when trying out new routes.

As a result of this, Vancouver stands at a perfect position for the 787. It's a medium-sized 2nd-tier city that has a large immigrant population. As such, the 787 makes direct routing from Vancouver to other 2nd tier cities.

For example, maybe there was a viable route between Vancouver and Marseille. Rather than funnel passengers through London Frankfurt (or Paris...) the 787 theoretically allows a direct Vancouver-Marseille flight.

It's an ideal plane for Asia... because of the distances involved in crossing the Pacific and perfectly suited to serve the many smaller (but still large) cities in China.

My (purely selfish) hope is that we see a return of the YVR-KIX (Osaka) route.

What Vancouver probably WON'T see much of, however, are A380s. Those mega-planes are designed to fly between large hubs... which are fed by a whole bunch of regional 737s.

Time will tell which strategy will be more successful.

Personally, I'm a fan of smaller, more efficient, planes... but that's just me.

trofirhen
Feb 15, 2011, 10:10 AM
Sorry, trof... the 787s aren't all about super-long distance. Yes, they have that capability... but it's touted because most jets of that size are used domestically. Due to its lighter weight and ability to handle more powerful nacelles, it is able to travel longer distances.

787s are all about fuel economy and Boeing's gamble that more people will want to fly direct from 2nd tier-cities... rather than be funnelled through overcrowded hubs.

In theory, on a passenger-by-passenger basis, they're supposed to be able to compete with larger jets, because they will be easier to fill and represent less risk when trying out new routes.

As a result of this, Vancouver stands at a perfect position for the 787. It's a medium-sized 2nd-tier city that has a large immigrant population. As such, the 787 makes direct routing from Vancouver to other 2nd tier cities.

For example, maybe there was a viable route between Vancouver and Marseille. Rather than funnel passengers through London Frankfurt (or Paris...) the 787 theoretically allows a direct Vancouver-Marseille flight.

It's an ideal plane for Asia... because of the distances involved in crossing the Pacific and perfectly suited to serve the many smaller (but still large) cities in China.

My (purely selfish) hope is that we see a return of the YVR-KIX (Osaka) route.

What Vancouver probably WON'T see much of, however, are A380s. Those mega-planes are designed to fly between large hubs... which are fed by a whole bunch of regional 737s.

Time will tell which strategy will be more successful.

Personally, I'm a fan of smaller, more efficient, planes... but that's just me.
:previous:
Interesting. thanks for that info. Like you, I prefer smaller jets. Maybe it's just living in France and seeing the A380 on the evening news half the time, but I'm not wowed by it anymore, and would much prefer to see 787s at YVR ...( and to ride on one ... hehe) ;)

SpongeG
Feb 15, 2011, 10:26 AM
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/police-warn-airline-ticket-fraud-20110213-070514-063.html

Police warn of airline ticket fraud

Peel police are appealing for more victims to come forward after an alleged airline ticketing scam left more than 100 people grounded.


Investigators for the force based west of Toronto are accusing Super Asia Travel Incorporated of offering discount overseas flights in newspaper ads that ran between July and December 2010.

Police say a representative from the company took money from customers and used fraudulent credit cards to buy airline tickets.

When the travellers tried to board their flights, their tickets were not honoured at the airport.

Investigators say they have located only 30 victims, located mainly in British Columbia and Ontario, and that more than $300,000 was paid to the travel company.

twoNeurons
Feb 15, 2011, 3:24 PM
Investigators for the force based west of Toronto are accusing Super Asia Travel Incorporated of offering discount overseas flights in newspaper ads that ran between July and December 2010.

Police say a representative from the company took money from customers and used fraudulent credit cards to buy airline tickets.

When the travellers tried to board their flights, their tickets were not honoured at the airport.

Investigators say they have located only 30 victims, located mainly in British Columbia and Ontario, and that more than $300,000 was paid to the travel company.

Wow... that would suck... My "guess" is that the offer was "too good to be true"

Canadian74
Feb 15, 2011, 10:07 PM
:previous:
Will we even see 787s here? They are for super-long-haul routes, like LHR to MEL, or YYZ to East Asia or Australia. I don't think Vancouver has any routes that are super-long that would justify 787s -- although there'll soon be more 777s here for sure. I could only imagine 787s on nonexistant routes like Vancouver - Jo'burg, or Vancouver - Mumbai.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

787s are replacing 767s and A330s in Air Canada's fleet. You will see all of the routes currently flown by 767s and A330s being flown with 787s once all of them are here. For the first couple of years, AC will be keeping their 767s for expansion but as most of the 787s are delivered, 767s will be retired.

787 does allow AC to open up new routes or re-start some for which they didn't have the right aircraft before (YYZ-DEL comes to mind). You will see lots of 787s at YVR, YYC, YUL and of course YYZ not only from AC, but many other airlines as well. 787 will be a VERY popular aircraft for a long time.

Don't forget AC has options to purchase a further 23 aircraft if it needs them, which can be used for even more expansion.

787 is not all about range (there are aircraft currently available that can fly farther than the 787). Operating ultra long haul routes is generally not the best economic decision for airlines.
Besides, the 787 cannot fly routes like LHR-SYD/MEL. It does not have enough range.
For the most part, you can imagine all the routes currently being flown by AC's 767s and A330s will be eventually flown by 787s.

trofirhen
Feb 15, 2011, 10:15 PM
:previous: :previous: :previous: :previous:
Interesting! Thank you for that! :)

SpongeG
Feb 16, 2011, 4:34 AM
did u hear about united?

United Air Temporarily Grounds Its 757 Fleet
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704343404576146864262618284.html

trofirhen
Feb 16, 2011, 6:24 AM
Anybody know: Are there any plans to complete the West Chevron at YVR in the near future? The ground space is there, seemingly empty and waiting for the final end of the wing to be built.

ALSO ..... who knows anything about plans for the A and B wings in the Domestic Terminal. I spoke with a YVR Sales rep, and he said something was in the works, but he could not me; it was sort of hush-hush.

It will be nice when YVR gets really BIG. Right now, other airports have greater passenger volume, including Oslo, Stockholm Arlanda (almost the same, in fact) and even Brisbane, Australia, handles more passengers yearly than YVR.

twoNeurons
Feb 16, 2011, 5:13 PM
:previous:
Though I'd expect Australian Airports to do quite well... it's the only (viable) way out of the country...

SpongeG
Feb 17, 2011, 6:59 PM
this could work in bellingham and seattles favour

U.S. ponders $5.50 entry tax for Canadian air, marine travellers

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/ponders+entry+Canadian+marine+travellers/4298043/story.html#ixzz1ECMgJ064

Gordon
Feb 17, 2011, 7:42 PM
I don't think a $5.50 \ passenger charge for flying in to the US will make too much of a difference. $5.50 on a $200+ fare is not very much. The feds ned to take action on some of the other fees & taxes that negatively impact competitive of the Canadian airline industry.

Yume-sama
Feb 17, 2011, 7:51 PM
Trans border flights are already so expensive I guess $5 doesn't really matter.

It's just another small reason in a list of many to avoid the USA, though.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 17, 2011, 8:32 PM
Summer 2011

Sunwing to re-introduce domestic flying from YVR - 3 weekly to YYZ. Plus weekly CUN and PVR. Sunwing will have 5 weekly flights this summer, compared to nil last summer. Their 738s have a lot of seats on them so that is close to 1,000 seats a week that weren't there last summer.

Winter 2011

Air NZ to increase AKL-YVR to 4 weekly next winter (up from 3, but switching from 744 to 77L, slight capacity increase of about 80 seats p/w. I am booked on one of these!

Korean to go daily to ICN (up from 5 weekly this winter).

halifaxboyns
Feb 17, 2011, 9:30 PM
I really wish that AC would restore the YVR-YHZ flight they had back during the union phase of AC with Canadian (in early 2000). That flight was well timed coming from YHZ to connect with the asian market flights, although the return flight could've been changed a bit to connect from Asia to the east better. I guess AC prefers to have most Atlantic Canada customers connect through YYZ; but it was a great option. I took it a few times and despite being a long flight - it was nice.

Canadian74
Feb 18, 2011, 6:11 PM
Air New Zealand does not have any 77Ls. I'll assume you meant 77E (777-200ER).

:)

Johnny Aussie
Feb 22, 2011, 1:13 AM
This summer, US Airways is upping YVR-PHX to 19 weekly from 14 weekly last summer. They are adding a 3rd service dep 11:09am (Daily ex Tue, Wed).

(and ^ Yes, that is what I meant! Thanks for the correx!)

Johnny Aussie
Feb 24, 2011, 6:41 AM
YVR showed an overall 3% increase in passengers in Jan 2011 compared to Jan 2010.

All sectors showed positive growth led by significant 14.6% growth in "Miscellaneous International" and an impressive 11.5% increase in Asia Pacific.

Although not a major contributor to overall numbers, the South Terminal showed a 20.7% increase compared to the prior year. I would suggest that would have to do with the prior year's restrictions due to the Olympics? I am pretty sure the restrictions went from mid Jan til well after the Paralympics?

Vanzunator
Mar 1, 2011, 2:22 AM
as seen on Airline Route: Guangzhou – Vancouver eff 15JUN11 NEW 3 weekly Boeing 777-200ER NONSTOP service
...and on a related note we still don't have a direct flight to CDG, hard to believe the most visited city on the planet has less demand than Guangzhou!

Vanzunator
Mar 1, 2011, 8:57 PM
something we all suspected:
Passengers flying out of Vancouver International Airport saw both the most expensive airfares and the biggest increase in ticket prices among Canada's 10 largest air hubs, the latest Statistics Canada data shows

http://www.canada.com/travel/news/Vancouver+home+highest+airfare/4339644/story.html

Gordon
Mar 1, 2011, 9:05 PM
The survey discussed in this article was done in Jan 2010. , since then the government has removed the aviation fuel surtax which brought fares down

trofirhen
Mar 1, 2011, 9:42 PM
as seen on Airline Route: Guangzhou – Vancouver eff 15JUN11 NEW 3 weekly Boeing 777-200ER NONSTOP service
...and on a related note we still don't have a direct flight to CDG, hard to believe the most visited city on the planet has less demand than Guangzhou!

:tumbleweed :twoguns: "yew tryin' to rile me up boy??" (That's OK. I'll have to be content with changing planes in Amsterdam or Frankfurt. I'm boycotting Toronto)!!

usog
Mar 5, 2011, 9:33 PM
Any update on Campbell's fuel tax pledge?
( http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/Province+introduce+legislation+remove+fuel/3551070/story.html for those who forgot)
I just love seeing all these fare sales that are double the advertised price after taxes :rolleyes:

Vanzunator
Mar 10, 2011, 2:45 AM
Globe and Mail reports that there is an additional delay of 5 to 7 months for the first five 787 dreamliners for Air Canada. Now, the first five are scheduled for delivery in Q4 2013 and H1 2014. That is a whopping delay of FOUR years. The initial delivery was scheduled for Nov. 2009. Also the other 32 firm orders of Air Canada 787s even don’t have a delivery schedule yet!

This is not good news for Air Canada’s potential route expansion out of YVR.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/air-canada-order-for-boeing-787s-delayed/article1934339/

trofirhen
Mar 10, 2011, 2:49 AM
as seen on Airline Route: Guangzhou – Vancouver eff 15JUN11 NEW 3 weekly Boeing 777-200ER NONSTOP service
...and on a related note we still don't have a direct flight to CDG, hard to believe the most visited city on the planet has less demand than Guangzhou!
:previous:
This is YVR, best mid-size airport in North America, In Vancouver, Number One City for quality of life - sleek, modern, forward thinking, and still the biggest hicktown in North America.

nova9
Mar 10, 2011, 2:54 AM
:previous:
This is YVR, best mid-size airport in North America, In Vancouver, Number One City for quality of life - sleek, modern, forward thinking, and still the biggest hicktown in North America.

the hyperbole. nope, hicktown it definitely is not, i mean, travel the rest of north america. shudder at the thought.

trofirhen
Mar 10, 2011, 3:24 AM
the hyperbole. nope, hicktown it definitely is not, i mean, travel the rest of north america. shudder at the thought.
:previous:
Just provoking a reaction; no worries. But really, until not so long ago, Vancouver really WAS a large hicktown in the form of a city. That's all changing fast, as we know. ;)

SpongeG
Mar 10, 2011, 7:18 AM
we have asians ties not european ones rather be part of the pacific rim than anything else

mezzanine
Mar 10, 2011, 8:02 AM
as seen on Airline Route: Guangzhou – Vancouver eff 15JUN11 NEW 3 weekly Boeing 777-200ER NONSTOP service
...and on a related note we still don't have a direct flight to CDG, hard to believe the most visited city on the planet has less demand than Guangzhou!

you don't go to where the puck is, you go to where it's going to be... ;)

----------

anyhoo, this is an interesting article from the WSJ. they are talking about the idea of an "aerotropolis" where (at least while we still have oil) a major airport with connections is key to stay connected with the world network.

These fast-growing air-based cities are already shaking things up. Emirates' rise in Dubai has set off alarms in London, Paris and Frankfurt, where the chief executives of flagship air carriers worry that they are being cut out of new trade flows. Canada even triggered a nasty diplomatic spat with the United Arab Emirates over its refusal to let Emirates fly to Calgary and Vancouver.

The aerotropolis is tailor-made for today's world, in which no nation reliably dominates and every nation must fight for its place in the global economy. It is at once a new model of urbanism and the newest weapon in the widening competition for wealth and security.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703408604576164703521850100.html

Vanzunator
Mar 17, 2011, 12:03 AM
Surprisingly none of the cut routes are from YVR; the routes include Ottawa to Thunder Bay, Ottawa to Washington Dulles, Montreal to Washington Dulles, Calgary to Chicago, Calgary to San Francisco, and Calgary to London, Ont. It seems Calgary suffured the most.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/air-canada-cuts-routes-as-fuel-prices-sting/article1944801/

Johnny Aussie
Mar 17, 2011, 10:00 AM
^ Why are you surprised YVR didn't have any routes cut? What routes do you think would be cut?

As for YYC, it has only lost the equivalent of 2 daily E90s and 1 daily CR7. The loss to ORD was offset by the addition of one daily UA flight, so net loss is nil. So I wouldn't say the YYC losses are significant.

Johnny Aussie
Mar 17, 2011, 10:02 AM
Yet another Asia capacity increase...

Effective for the peak summer period, EVA is adding a 4th weekly frequency on equipment 77W.

bikegypsy
Mar 17, 2011, 10:18 AM
as seen on Airline Route: Guangzhou – Vancouver eff 15JUN11 NEW 3 weekly Boeing 777-200ER NONSTOP service
...and on a related note we still don't have a direct flight to CDG, hard to believe the most visited city on the planet has less demand than Guangzhou!

Hub, hub, hub. Vancouver is Canada's main hub for Asia. YYZ and YUL are for Europe and the Middle East. Airport size and activity are not accurate reflections of city size and activity.

Vanzunator
Mar 17, 2011, 5:03 PM
I’m surprised because I believe Air Canada’s history has a pattern of discrimination against YVR in favor of YYZ and YUL. I think they’ve cut so much out of YVR since the Canadian Airlines acquisition that is not much left to cut. 14 years ago YVR had more flights to FRA than today, considering the growth of Vancouver in the last 14 years makes that very hard to comprehend.

trofirhen
Mar 17, 2011, 6:11 PM
I’m surprised because I believe Air Canada’s history has a pattern of discrimination against YVR in favor of YYZ and YUL. I think they’ve cut so much out of YVR since the Canadian Airlines acquisition that is not much left to cut. 14 years ago YVR had more flights to FRA than today, considering the growth of Vancouver in the last 14 years makes that very hard to comprehend.
:previous:
It infuriates me. Air Canada has a huge fortress hub in Toronto, and makes people hub through YYZ as much as they can. I think this is largely to help pay for the huge, new, and VERRRRRRRRRY expensive-to-land-at Toronto Airport, as well as the typical Eastern Canadian attitude of saying "screw you" to the less voter-populated West.

Johnny Aussie
Mar 17, 2011, 8:44 PM
^^
I hear you, but in fact this summer, AC is adding capacity to YVR. Overall, there will be about 7 more daily flights compared to last year. Add to that a bit of capacity boost to Asia as well. Vancouver's location on the West Coast of North America is why you are seeing a lot of increases to Asia compared to Europe. Almost every carrier serving Asia from Vancouver is boosting capacity across the Pacific (except JAL). In the near future, I would expect this trend to continue especially to China and India. As for Europe, I wouldn't expect much to be added in terms of new carriers, routes or capacity. We will probably see some, but not the amount everyone is hoping for.