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Johnny Aussie
Apr 27, 2012, 1:47 AM
^ I too believe that Westjet's growth will not be detrimental to YVR. Over the last couple of years, in the major centres in the west anyway, Westjet has been favouring YVR and YYC at the expense of YEG and YWG.

However, without a doubt, YYC will see a huge increase as they spread out to more of the lesser populated cities in the West. I reckon YEG will lose out as WS will focus on growing YYC into a true hub. I bet we will see more YYC - YMM, YYC-YQU and possibly further north frequencies with smaller planes. Sure there will be some funnelling away from YVR with the interior of BC, but if you look at the pattern over the years, and use AC as an example, intra-BC flying from YVR has actually increased, whilst YYC has decreased.

YVR will still benefit as well as there is still quite a bit of potential intra-BC flying. All those Air Canada Express flights are without any competition as it stands, and not all of those flights are for connecting passengers, there is still a lot of O+D to be taken away from AC. AC Express has the most to lose in my opinion... I would be worried.

On that note, I am still a loyal Star Alliance flyer and just dropped a bomb on future * flights including some on AC and about to spend even more... so I am hoping they sort out their mess soon. I am probably going to switch flyer programs from AC to SQ soon though. Just trying to time it right so I maintain Gold Status on *. Having Super Elite on AC is useless living in Australia, so no point in trying to achieve that for next year.

Yume-sama
Apr 27, 2012, 2:08 AM
I joined KrisFlyer, too, just because flying with SIA is still an "experience" rather than a hassle lol

I'll be a PPS Club member after this year, but, I'm really not sure what that entitles me to other than a shiny card and top tier Star Alliance status everywhere!

Unfortunately not a PPS Solitaire member that requires over $250,000 CAD in flights :P

It is recognized as AC Super Elite if you fly AC, anyways. But surely the free gifts are nicer.

Johnny Aussie
Apr 27, 2012, 4:40 AM
^ Yeah my partner is PPS so I sometimes get to go along for the free ride, despite my Star Gold Status.

Unless you travel on one particular airline having the absolute top tier for that airline only benefits you on that airline.

My point about Air Canada is in the rest of the Star Alliance network having Elite or Super Elite status makes no difference, they still see you as Gold only. Also with Krisflyer Gold it is has high as you can go and again same status across all Star carriers. There is a huge difference in Changi lounges though.. SilverKris lounges are far superior to the Star Gold ones... in fact if not flying in J class not even really worth going to the Star lounges. And the AC lounges in Canada are bordering on a joke compared to the Asia-Pacific ones.

My biggest peev about living in Australia is there is no Star carrier here anymore. Only when I fly to NZ on Air NZ am I loyal to them. The thing about AC now of course is the minimum AC requirement which would not be a problem... but it now forces me to have to fly AC at least once a year back to Canada.. not that I mind that.. would be nice to not have that requirement which appears to be unique to Aeroplan.

Hourglass
Apr 27, 2012, 11:31 AM
^ I too believe that Westjet's growth will not be detrimental to YVR. Over the last couple of years, in the major centres in the west anyway, Westjet has been favouring YVR and YYC at the expense of YEG and YWG.

It seems to me that the issue with Westjet and future YVR growth is Vancouver's geography within Westjet's current route structure. Unless the airline starts flying to Asia, I don't see YVR as any more than what it is -- a focus city. If I'm living in, say, Kamloops, and wanting to fly any point east, it makes more sense for me to transit via YYC than to backtrack to YVR

On that note, I am still a loyal Star Alliance flyer and just dropped a bomb on future * flights including some on AC and about to spend even more... so I am hoping they sort out their mess soon. I am probably going to switch flyer programs from AC to SQ soon though. Just trying to time it right so I maintain Gold Status on *. Having Super Elite on AC is useless living in Australia, so no point in trying to achieve that for next year.

I never found PPS on SQ to be anything special. And the fact that only J or F flights count towards your status doesn't help. I find Cathay's Marco Polo club to be miles ahead as a loyalty club (sorry for the pun). Doesn't help you, I know, given that they are OneWorld... ;)

LeftCoaster
Apr 27, 2012, 1:32 PM
Well I don't know as much about this stuff as some of you here, but the way I see it is if western Canada needs a new route to Europe, if its AC chances are its going to be out of YVR and if it's Westjet I'd bet it would be out of YYC.

Other than that I would assume smaller, self sustaining domestic and us routes will continue to be out of whichever airport can support them, regardless of which carrier is running them, but larger routes would be out of hubs and rely on regional traffic.

Gordon
Apr 27, 2012, 4:27 PM
I would be surprised if Westjet started flying internationally because it would be a total deviation from the Southwest airlines model that they have followed.

these international routes are ultra competitive.

Bigtime
Apr 27, 2012, 4:28 PM
I would be surprised if Westjet started flying internationally because it would be a total deviation from the Southwest airlines model that they have followed.

these international routes are ultra competitive.

WestJet already deviated from the Southwest model a long time ago, the intention to start a regional fleet with turboprops only reinforces that. If anything they are becoming more like Alaska, even if their original operation started out like Southwest.

Yume-sama
Apr 27, 2012, 5:22 PM
I think the decision to purchase planes smaller than a 737 has more to do with the fact the Canadian population is much less than the American, and we have much fewer large cities that warrant a 737. SouthWest uses their 737's on regional routes, the only difference is there are more people. BUT, short term leasing a 767 certainly seems to deviate from the SW route! But that's more out of geographical necessity, too.

Kind of like how JAL and ANA use 747's (now mostly retired), 777's, 787's etc. on regional routes within the Country due to population.

I do agree though that it would require too much of a business model change for WS to start international flights. They'd have to have more than one class, to bring in the money. And part of the charm of WestJet is pretending we're all equal! There was enough of a tiny uproar when people could purchase emergency exit seats for $30 more :P

Bigtime
Apr 27, 2012, 6:10 PM
If some of you don't think WestJet will operate inter-continental flights in the future you are going to be pretty surprised I think.

incognism
Apr 27, 2012, 6:45 PM
I think YVR-HKG is ripe for a lower-cost entrant again. Oasis seemed to be making a decent go at things before the massive spike in oil prices killed them off.

s211
Apr 27, 2012, 7:17 PM
If some of you don't think WestJet will operate inter-continental flights in the future you are going to be pretty surprised I think.

The thought of spending more than an hour on a Westjet flight gives me chest pains.

Valley_Refugee
Apr 27, 2012, 7:55 PM
I think the decision to purchase planes smaller than a 737 has more to do with the fact the Canadian population is much less than the American, and we have much fewer large cities that warrant a 737. SouthWest uses their 737's on regional routes, the only difference is there are more people. BUT, short term leasing a 767 certainly seems to deviate from the SW route! But that's more out of geographical necessity, too.

Kind of like how JAL and ANA use 747's (now mostly retired), 777's, 787's etc. on regional routes within the Country due to population.

I do agree though that it would require too much of a business model change for WS to start international flights. They'd have to have more than one class, to bring in the money. And part of the charm of WestJet is pretending we're all equal! There was enough of a tiny uproar when people could purchase emergency exit seats for $30 more

Actually, I second the idea they are becoming more like Alaska and less like SW...Alaska has Horizon, which operates turboprops on regional routes. But you're right, the decision to purchase turboprops is more due to the sparser Canadian population.

WestJet could give a go at a Trans-Atlantic/Pacific LCC model...they have a lower labour cost structure than Air Canada and, if they chose to concentrate on Calgary, lower landing costs vs. Pearson. But yeah, a 9-hour flight to Europe on WestJet would not be very appealing.

trofirhen
Apr 27, 2012, 9:21 PM
WestJet could give a go at a Trans-Atlantic/Pacific LCC model...they have a lower labour cost structure than Air Canada and, if they chose to concentrate on Calgary, lower landing costs vs. Pearson. But yeah, a 9-hour flight to Europe on WestJet would not be very appealing.
:previous::previous::previous:

Agreed, but perhaps with 787s and a better level of ambience/service on their overseas flights (with perhaps business class at a competitive price), it might not be problematic. ... Hey, I once flew AF CDG-LAX return, and the service was great. I've also taken AF numerous times domestically to Perpignan, and the local inflight service (esp the "meal" service) is total junk.

Overseas flights are usually better than dometic ones on many airlines. WestJet could do the similar, I think.

twoNeurons
Apr 28, 2012, 4:59 AM
I don't know why you would be. Any growth of Westjet is going to be to the benefit of YYC and the detriment of YVR.

As much as you guys hate AC, YVR is their second largest hub and it is far more responsible for the growth of the airport than Westjet.

I'm no AC hater. In fact, I think their Trans-pacific product and most of their international product is pretty good.

I would just be happy to see two national carriers in different alliances. We'd likely have a broader range of direct flights out of Canada.

In addition, while WestJet does have their HQ in Calgary and that is a focus point, you'd likely see Western Canada in general get a stronger focus. Travelling west, there would be direct flights to Asia from Calgary, however where they wouldn't support a full plane, those routes would invariably be shuttled through Vancouver.

I agree that Vancouver gets excellent service to Asia. However, I'd like to see two strong Canadian full service airlines again.

trofirhen
Apr 28, 2012, 9:02 AM
I'm no AC hater. In fact, I think their Trans-pacific product and most of their international product is pretty good.

I would just be happy to see two national carriers in different alliances. We'd likely have a broader range of direct flights out of Canada.

In addition, while WestJet does have their HQ in Calgary and that is a focus point, you'd likely see Western Canada in general get a stronger focus. Travelling west, there would be direct flights to Asia from Calgary, however where they wouldn't support a full plane, those routes would invariably be shuttled through Vancouver.

I agree that Vancouver gets excellent service to Asia. However, I'd like to see two strong Canadian full service airlines again.
:previous:

What about service increases to Europe, if any? Do you think this is possible?

SpongeG
Apr 28, 2012, 6:27 PM
if the demand was here i think it would be going on already, in the summer it increases because we get more europeans wanting to come here - i don't think its the other way around

Hourglass
Apr 28, 2012, 7:52 PM
:previous:

What about service increases to Europe, if any? Do you think this is possible?

Well, given that you live in Europe, what do you think? Double dip recession in the UK, record unemployment in Spain, Portugal/Italy/Ireland/Greece are in a mess. Where would the growth come from?

I would see only marginal increases in the short to medium term -- most likely from Germany (LH tried seasonal Munich service a few years ago and might do it again) or London (hopefully the seasonal VS service becomes year round).

YVR-Europe traffic has been pretty flat for a while now.

incognism
Apr 28, 2012, 10:07 PM
YVR-MUC might be possible. Their only West Coast destinations from MUC are currently are SFO and LAX while FRA gets service from YVR, SEA, LAX and SFO.

However, LH discontinued their YYC-FRA service a few months back, and while it's not the same market, it's possible they view Western NA as being adequately served for the time being.

Exciting that VS is entering the market and I'd hope they can be successful at it though. Giving VX's interest in YVR, I could foresee VA jumping into the action and making YVR a nice little Virgin group connection point.

Johnny Aussie
Apr 29, 2012, 8:09 AM
Just did a bit of snooping around at some of the more local carriers flying out of YVR and noted the following.

Hawkair is boosting its summer weekly frequencies by 10 with more flying to Terrace and Smithers. Hawkair will have 35 weekly flights out of YVR this summer.

Orca is adding 2 new routes to Qualicum and Nanaimo out of the South Terminal. Each route will have 2 daily (ex Sat). Orca will have 52 weekly flights this summer compared to 33 last year.

This is on top of the increases by Pacific Coastal I posted a few weeks back.

Also, AC is boosting YVR-YYZ with another daily flight to 19 daily.

With all these changes, YVR will see 89 more weekly flights than last summer (this includes the net gain of 48 additional by the little guys and a net gain of 41 by the bigger guys).

trofirhen
Apr 29, 2012, 5:28 PM
YVR-MUC might be possible. Their only West Coast destinations from MUC are currently are SFO and LAX while FRA gets service from YVR, SEA, LAX and SFO.

However, LH discontinued their YYC-FRA service a few months back, and while it's not the same market, it's possible they view Western NA as being adequately served for the time being.

Exciting that VS is entering the market and I'd hope they can be successful at it though. Giving VX's interest in YVR, I could foresee VA jumping into the action and making YVR a nice little Virgin group connection point.
:previous::previous::previous:

Could you elaborate on that? What sort of "connection point" do you visualize? I'm interested. :)

trofirhen
Apr 29, 2012, 5:54 PM
Well I don't know as much about this stuff as some of you here, but the way I see it is if western Canada needs a new route to Europe, if its AC chances are its going to be out of YVR and if it's Westjet I'd bet it would be out of YYC.

Other than that I would assume smaller, self sustaining domestic and us routes will continue to be out of whichever airport can support them, regardless of which carrier is running them, but larger routes would be out of hubs and rely on regional traffic.
:previous::previous::previous:

IF a new route to Europe goes into service, and IF it's WJ and not AC, wouldn't it make $$ sense to include Vancouver in that anyway? The market here is bigger than Calgary and Edmonton combined. :shrug: Or am I wrong .....

cornholio
Apr 29, 2012, 9:24 PM
:previous::previous::previous:

IF a new route to Europe goes into service, and IF it's WJ and not AC, wouldn't it make $$ sense to include Vancouver in that anyway? The market here is bigger than Calgary and Edmonton combined. :shrug: Or am I wrong .....

But isnt the catchment area important as well? Vancouver has the worst catchment area for Europe bound flights I would think as there is nothing west of here. Meanwhile Calgary can use Vancouver and the entire western sea board as part of their catchment area.

trofirhen
Apr 29, 2012, 10:03 PM
But isnt the catchment area important as well? Vancouver has the worst catchment area for Europe bound flights I would think as there is nothing west of here. Meanwhile Calgary can use Vancouver and the entire western sea board as part of their catchment area.
:previous:

Yes, what you say about the catchment area is very true, but if WJ starts flying to Europe from YYC, wouldn't making WJ Calgary-based catchment area to include Vancouver itself be a profitable move? I mean, for example, if there's going to be a WestJet Galgary - Munich flight, wouldn't it make sense for it to begin in Vancouver? They'd get more revenue that way ... surely

deasine
Apr 30, 2012, 3:38 AM
YVR-MUC might be possible. Their only West Coast destinations from MUC are currently are SFO and LAX while FRA gets service from YVR, SEA, LAX and SFO.

Not sure about MUC, but I wouldn't be surprised if we have a scheduled service eventually from Air Berlin. They had seasonal service to DUS (or was it BER?) earlier.

However, LH discontinued their YYC-FRA service a few months back, and while it's not the same market, it's possible they view Western NA as being adequately served for the time being.

Yeah, but keep in mind, AC took over and added capacity so there was no capacity lost on that route. Given their tight-knit relationship, it seems more of a capacity allowance transfer for more than anything.

Exciting that VS is entering the market and I'd hope they can be successful at it though. Giving VX's interest in YVR, I could foresee VA jumping into the action and making YVR a nice little Virgin group connection point.

Virgin Group connection would not be a reason VX would fly to YVR. Even though they both carry the Virgin branding and they are listed as "partners," there's really little cooperation between Virgin carriers (with the exception of Virgin Australia and Virgin Samoa of course). And YVR would not be a logical connection for passengers between the Kangaroo route. LHR-YVR-SYD is about 16% longer than the current Kangaroo route hubs.


SYD-LHR via HKG 10575mi (CX, BA/QF)
SYD-LHR via CAN 10575mi (CZ)
SYD-LHR via SIN 10672mi (SQ, BA/QF)
SYD-LHR via BKK 10620mi (TG, BA/QF)

SYD-LHR via YVR 12480mi



:previous:

Yes, what you say about the catchment area is very true, but if WJ starts flying to Europe from YYC, wouldn't making WJ Calgary-based catchment area to include Vancouver itself be a profitable move? I mean, for example, if there's going to be a WestJet Galgary - Munich flight, wouldn't it make sense for it to begin in Vancouver? They'd get more revenue that way ... surely

Yeah, but one also needs to factor in what airplane is used as well. Narrowbodies can't get close to Europe so in other words, whatever aircraft is used must be a widebody with a large capacity. So unless there is a guaranteed number of passengers from YVR to Europe (via YYC) that will fill at least the majority of the aircraft, it doesn't make sense to include YVR. Plus, it makes more sense to end the route in YYC anyway, for one, to funnel the capacity into other YVR-YYC domestic flights, for two, to have maintenance all centered at YYC.

incognism
Apr 30, 2012, 4:06 AM
Not sure about MUC, but I wouldn't be surprised if we have a scheduled service eventually from Air Berlin. They had seasonal service to DUS (or was it BER?) earlier.


AB has been flying a 332 YVR-DUS for past few summers.


Yeah, but keep in mind, AC took over and added capacity so there was no capacity lost on that route. Given their tight-knit relationship, it seems more of a capacity allowance transfer for more than anything.

No capacity lost? AC was running a 763 and LH had a 333 (previously 343) on that route before LH pulled out. Now AC has a 333 on the route. I'd say that's some capacity lost.


Virgin Group connection would not be a reason VX would fly to YVR. Even though they both carry the Virgin branding and they are listed as "partners," there's really little cooperation between Virgin carriers (with the exception of Virgin Australia and Virgin Samoa of course). And YVR would not be a logical connection for passengers between the Kangaroo route. LHR-YVR-SYD is about 16% longer than the current Kangaroo route hubs.

I wouldn't say that VX would come into YVR for the reason of creating a connection point. But given that VX has expressed interest in YVR (separately of VS and VA), I could see each of the three airlines making a business case for YVR individually. VS will be operating YVR-LHR. I can see VX running YVR-SFO and YVR-LAX (seeing how they have found success doing so in PDX and SEA). And it's a much longer shot, but I could see VA trying to make a go of YVR-SYD.

Like you said, it doesn't make sense for the three to cooperate to operate in YVR, but independently, there's a chance that all three may end up in YVR anyways.

Maybe "connection point" was the wrong term to use.

Johnny Aussie
Apr 30, 2012, 10:19 AM
In addition to JAL's scheduled daily YVR-NRT flights, this summer JAL is adding a few additional charter flights as part of a BC/Alaska tour program.

The additional flights are to and/or from: Fukuoka, Osaka, Nagoya, Niigata, Tokyo and Okayama.

More details can be found at the reliable airliners.net site.

http://airlineroute.net/2012/04/30/jl-alaska-s12

twoNeurons
Apr 30, 2012, 5:18 PM
:previous::previous::previous:

Could you elaborate on that? What sort of "connection point" do you visualize? I'm interested. :)

You can see where they fly:
http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/tridion/images/destinationmap_tcm5-602010.jpg

Bigtime
May 1, 2012, 12:37 PM
WestJet has selected the Q400 for their regional operation.

Firm order of 20 frames with options for another 25.

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=659

Operation to start Q3 of 2013.

trofirhen
May 1, 2012, 2:12 PM
You can see where they fly:
http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/tridion/images/destinationmap_tcm5-602010.jpg
:previous::previous::previous:

Yes, you make your point well. It'd be great to have three "branches" of their service based out of Vancouver ..... we might even get one, maybe two more coveted destinations out of 'em if we welcome 'em in, and treat 'em nice ...

LotusLand
May 1, 2012, 3:41 PM
Japadog is opening at the airport? I haven't seen any signage for it but apparently it opens today :shrug:
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2012/04/japadog-opening-up-at-yvr/

Johnny Aussie
May 2, 2012, 10:24 PM
For awhile it looked like EVA was dropping back to 3 weekly on the TPE-YVR route but they just loaded their 4th weekly seasonal flight for the summer.

This year all flights to be operated with 744 instead of a mix of 744/77W, so another little bump to Asian capacity this summer.

Good news too that EVA Air is going to join Star Alliance... look fwd to another Star option in Asia.

Denscity
May 3, 2012, 3:38 AM
WestJet has selected the Q400 for their regional operation.

Firm order of 20 frames with options for another 25.

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=659

Operation to start Q3 of 2013.

Fingers crossed for the West Kootenay regional airport in Castlegar (YCG).

SpongeG
May 5, 2012, 6:53 PM
YVR fail

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/image.php?src=http://www.vancitybuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/YVR-Dick-Fail.jpg&w=650&a=t
Image @CoryMonteith via vancity buzz

trofirhen
May 5, 2012, 7:07 PM
:previous:
Why "YVR fail," Sponge? I'm not disagreeing in any way, but are you commenting on the signage itself, or the walking times, or exactly what? I'm just interested, that's all. Thanks ......... oh, I think I get it: not in Chinese or Korean, perhaps, given the large YVR - Asia traffic? Right or wrong. Yes or no. Please tell me if I got it. Thanks again.

SpongeG
May 5, 2012, 7:09 PM
it looks like a penis

SpongeG
May 5, 2012, 7:09 PM
moronic boyish humour that makes some people giggle - go check vancity buzz thats where i saw it

trofirhen
May 5, 2012, 7:25 PM
it looks like a penis

moronic boyish humour that makes some people giggle - go check vancity buzz thats where i saw it
:previous:
Hey, .... yeah, ...of course, on second look. The architect must have had some unresolved psychosexual issue. Then again, perhaps YVR could adjust the forms more graphically, so that aspect would be less noticeable, but just how? ;)

Johnny Aussie
May 5, 2012, 10:32 PM
A bit of envy perhaps?

I will never look at that sign again in the same way!

trofirhen
May 5, 2012, 10:36 PM
A bit of envy perhaps?

I will never look at that sign again in the same way!
:previous:

I know what you mean. Sexual obsession can be contagious. Even with airport signage.

Valley_Refugee
May 8, 2012, 8:39 PM
25 new Korean Air codeshares with WestJet, 14 of which are Vancouver routes:

From airlinerroute.net:

http://airlineroute.net/2012/05/08/wske-codeshare/

Gordon
May 9, 2012, 3:28 PM
It's interesting that YVR SFO is included in the code share agreement because it is only a seasonal Summer route. I wonder if it is being converted to a year around route?

teriyaki
May 10, 2012, 4:42 AM
http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/361014--airline-markets-bellingham-as-the-new-gateway-to-vancouver
"Frontier Airlines is trying to market Bellingham as the new gateway to Vancouver for Americans.

Starting later this month, Frontier will be flying directly between its hub in Denver and Bellingham for $90 on a trial basis throughout the summer.

"They're advertising to their clients as Bellingham being a gateway to Vancouver, which is good news to anybody running a convention centre or a hotel, " says Brad Davies with Virtually There Travel. "It's also a perfect storm for YVR in the sense that a lot of the domestic traffic is working its way south.... "

More competition in BLI should bring down prices even further. My hope is that this route does well enough to make it permanent and keep prices competitive at BLI with Allegiant/Alaska/Frontier fighting it out.

This may come at even higher expense to YVR traffic though if the price gap widens even further.

memememe76
May 10, 2012, 6:26 AM
I am finding Bellingham less and less of a deal, esp. when parking (with the Canada Line, I don't worry about my car) and luggage fees are taken into account (and wth is with Allegiant's carry-on fees all about?!?!).

But holy, $90 to fly to Denver, return? Too bad I have already planned my summer holidays.

incognism
May 10, 2012, 6:40 AM
More likely $90 each way.

Not seeing anything at the price though. $110 one way is the best I can find right now.

Seems like a half-hearted stab at UA. To be fair, UA seems to have some success running YVR-DEN but I wonder how much of that is o/d vs connecting.

SpongeG
May 10, 2012, 8:23 AM
parking at bellingham was pretty cheap and the security is really easy

most people i know either get a ride to YVR or park and ride when travelling - canada line isn't that convenient for those in the eastern suburbs and other than border the bellingham airport is not too much further from surrey/langley etc. than YVR is

Johnny Aussie
May 11, 2012, 7:40 AM
It's funny. Bellingham keeps coming up over and over as a huge threat to YVR. This is nothing new. Go back over 25 years when mainline PSA/US Air and mainline AS flew out of BLI along with UA Express. Back then it was all doom and gloom for YVR. In the last couple of years transborder growth out of YVR is growing quite healthily. Looking at summer 2012 quite a lot of capacity is being added out of YVR. Look at UA alone. Not saying BLI isn't having any effect but the media makes it sound like YVR is losing ground exponentially... stats say not the case. This "perfect storm" has blown in before.. maybe knocked over a tree or two.. but....

Johnny Aussie
May 11, 2012, 8:17 AM
Just had a think about this and realized the following. YVR's website is very thin when it comes to new routes or additional capacity.

Seriously, other than the current flashy Virgin Atlantic ad on the home page I have seen nothing about: Sichuan Airlines, China Southern's 67% increase in flights, China Eastern practically doubling flights, KLM's upgauging to 777, Air NZ increasing flights, JAL's additional charter flights, Korean increasing flights to daily, Westjet's new routes to Chicago or Whitehorse, Sunwing's increased summer flying, UA and DL adding significant capacity this summer, not to even mention the little guys... you get the point.

It is sad that not one of these has been put into a press release on YVR's website. Seems rather apathetic.

Man... YEG keeps talking about routes they are "working on" but YVR doesn't even mention those landed or increasing.

Hourglass
May 11, 2012, 10:32 AM
:previous:

Yes, nothing like Calgary or Edmonton where every new route or service increase is announced with a press release (note YYC is of course the opposite when it comes to route cancellations a la Lufthansa) ;)

In previous years leading up to summer, I recall YVR had a page on the website talking specifically about new routes and added frequencies. It seems to have disappeared. That said, new routes are mentioned in things like YVR Air Mail and on its social media sites on Twitter and the YVR blog.

SpongeG
May 11, 2012, 4:37 PM
It's funny. Bellingham keeps coming up over and over as a huge threat to YVR. This is nothing new. Go back over 25 years when mainline PSA/US Air and mainline AS flew out of BLI along with UA Express. Back then it was all doom and gloom for YVR. In the last couple of years transborder growth out of YVR is growing quite healthily. Looking at summer 2012 quite a lot of capacity is being added out of YVR. Look at UA alone. Not saying BLI isn't having any effect but the media makes it sound like YVR is losing ground exponentially... stats say not the case. This "perfect storm" has blown in before.. maybe knocked over a tree or two.. but....

i don't think its a threat to YVR just a second airport the same way gatwick is a second airport to heathrow

i used bellingham once and would use it again, saved nearly $300 on a trip to san francisco and if seattle saves me money i would fly out of there too - have done that in the past, i deally YVR would be 1st choice but $ is the biggest factor in deciding

twoNeurons
May 11, 2012, 9:49 PM
i don't think its a threat to YVR just a second airport the same way gatwick is a second airport to heathrow

i used bellingham once and would use it again, saved nearly $300 on a trip to san francisco and if seattle saves me money i would fly out of there too - have done that in the past, ideally YVR would be 1st choice but $ is the biggest factor in deciding

Seattle isn't as attractive when you factor in the costs of getting down there. It really depends on the flight, but fuel alone adds minimum $100 to the flight.

g35
May 11, 2012, 10:16 PM
^^ I think you're wrong about that. $100 should get to you Portland and back, not Seattle, in a car getting 25 mpg hwy and paying $3.50/gallon.


That's also a big PLUS BLI has. Parking is cheap, convenient and relatively painless... even for Vancouverites. It may siphon off some of the low end of the market for US flights from YVR.


For some reason, for me, it's often the same price to land at YVR as BLI, but much more costly to depart YVR. SEA does not offer much of a cost difference over BLI, maybe $20-50 on average on a one-way to the Caribbean. But I am willing to travel to BLI (about 10 mins driving time and whatever border wait over YVR? estimating) to save what is usually $50-125 one-way.

Johnny Aussie
May 12, 2012, 1:04 AM
i don't think its a threat to YVR just a second airport the same way gatwick is a second airport to heathrow

i used bellingham once and would use it again, saved nearly $300 on a trip to san francisco and if seattle saves me money i would fly out of there too - have done that in the past, i deally YVR would be 1st choice but $ is the biggest factor in deciding

Agreed... my point is just about the typical media overblowing BLI yet once again... It's nothing new so now it's Frontiers turn to have a fair go.

I too flew out of BLI once to SNA back in the 80s. Now since I don't live in Vancouver anymore probably won't ever again. But I can see, for some people, if the savings are big enough.. why not.
Same for those in Edmonton driving to YYC.. for some people if it's worth it why not? I find it quite funny that some people seem to take it personally
as some sort of betrayal or something. Personally it would be very unlikely now that I would drive for 3 hours plus when my local airport is only a 30 min drive. Even to save a few $100. But for others who would choose to that's their choice and nothing wrong with it.

twoNeurons
May 12, 2012, 2:27 AM
^^ I think you're wrong about that. $100 should get to you Portland and back, not Seattle, in a car getting 25 mpg hwy and paying $3.50/gallon.


Seattle is 250km away
Fuel is currently about $1.45/L in Vancouver
Fuel is currently between $4.25 and $4.50/gallon across the line (http://www.washingtongasprices.com/Blaine/index.aspx) ($1.20/L)

Averaging those out brings you to $1.33 / L which is about what most people will end up pay taking into account fuel already in the vehicle.

25mpg is about 10L / 100km.

Seattle will therefore take about 50L of fuel, assuming going directly to the airport and no major traffic problems.

I stand corrected. It would be between $66 and $72.

Note that this isn't including mileage costs, incidental costs or parking costs but I didn't say anything about that in my original email, so I'll leave that alone.

Seattle's still not as cheap as people like to think it is.

Hot Rod
May 12, 2012, 3:13 AM
25 new Korean Air codeshares with WestJet, 14 of which are Vancouver routes:

From airlinerroute.net:

http://airlineroute.net/2012/05/08/wske-codeshare/

also of interest is that Vancouver is listed for every city pair (something no other city is).

I agree about the YVR website not updating destinations. But could it be that YVR is reaching critical mass, enough not to care to advertise? Or is it just a half-ass attempt at web management?

Hot Rod
May 12, 2012, 3:45 AM
Im surprised this was not posted by Aussie, but this likely solidifies China Southern's position at CAN-YVR for the long haul, if MU gets approval for Code Share on Delta feeder routes from YVR to Delta Hubs SLC and MSP.

Update at 0720GMT 26APR12

China Southern and DELTA has filed joint application to the US DoT, seeking permission to expand codeshare service. China Southern plans to place its “CZ” code on following routes operated by DELTA:

Detroit – Beijing
Detroit – Shanghai Pu Dong
Tokyo Narita – Atlanta
Vancouver – Minneapolis
Vancouver – Salt Lake City

China Southern also plans to codeshare on flights to following cities operated by DELTA:
Cleveland
Grand Rapids
Houston
Madison
Traverse City

mezzanine
May 12, 2012, 4:29 AM
^great news.

It looks like YVR's gateway strategy to asia is paying dividends.

I'd suspect that many americans would rather transfer in north america to get to second tier chinese cities, than to t/f in HK, beijing or shanghai.

I really wonder if we will get Ronald Reagan airport now...

hollywoodnorth
May 13, 2012, 2:30 AM
Japan Airline increasing size of planes into Vancouver
Airline says demand for flights is ramping up on both sides of the Pacific

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/362006--japan-airline-increasing-size-of-planes-into-vancouver

SpongeG
May 13, 2012, 3:40 AM
If I flew out of seattle I would take the airport bus, i know I looked into a flight to south Africa, it was $1900 out of vancouver with all the taxescetc and there was a flight out of seattle that was $1100 include all fees, it via Chicago and Madrid which would gave given me a 10 hr layover in Madrid so enough time to explore a bit. There was a flight via Atlanta from seattle that was about $1600 so not as big a savings but not too bad

Good news about the Japan flights

Yume-sama
May 13, 2012, 3:50 AM
Japan Airline increasing size of planes into Vancouver
Airline says demand for flights is ramping up on both sides of the Pacific

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/362006--japan-airline-increasing-size-of-planes-into-vancouver

Well, that is good news! I suppose it's fitting, considering what actually happened.... down from 9x weekly 747 to 7x weekly 767. I'm assuming it'll bump up to 777.

JAL's rebuild is going quite well, too.

trofirhen
May 13, 2012, 2:49 PM
:previous::previous::previous:
Further into the same link posted by hollywoodnorth, this article about Abbotsford Airport's goal clearly show the developing air market in the Lower Mainland. The seedlings of a future megalopolis, perhaps?


http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/326871--abbotsford-airport-wants-routes-to-europe-india-toronto

Johnny Aussie
May 13, 2012, 9:29 PM
:previous::previous::previous:
Further into the same link posted by hollywoodnorth, this article about Abbotsford Airport's goal clearly show the developing air market in the Lower Mainland. The seedlings of a future megalopolis, perhaps?


http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/326871--abbotsford-airport-wants-routes-to-europe-india-toronto

Just like BLI, this is nothing new.... Has the media just completely run out of news items...

YXX has been talking India, Toronto etc for years and years and years... They had Toronto for awhile both Westjet and Air Canada quite a long time ago. It would be fascinating if somebody came up with a new story for a change.

trofirhen
May 14, 2012, 4:36 PM
Just like BLI, this is nothing new.... Has the media just completely run out of news items...

YXX has been talking India, Toronto etc for years and years and years... They had Toronto for awhile both Westjet and Air Canada quite a long time ago. It would be fascinating if somebody came up with a new story for a change.
:previous:

I goofed again. I'm a baaaaaaaad boy ............. :(

deasine
May 14, 2012, 8:02 PM
AC (not surprisingly) lost out its fight for service to DCA. Though, perhaps there may be future direct service to IAD.

Four Carriers Win Reagan Airport Slots By DOUG CAMERON

U.S. regulators on Monday selected four airlines to start new flights from Reagan National Airport after a fierce seven-way contest for access to the facility, just outside Washington, D.C.

Alaska Air Group Inc., ALK -0.67% JetBlue Airways Corp., JBLU -4.58% Southwest Airlines Co. LUV +0.31% and Virgin America were granted rights to each start a single daily flight.

Seven carriers had vied to take advantage of loosening restrictions on flights between northern Virginia's Reagan National and longer-haul destinations such as the West Coast, sparking a lobbying battle involving airlines and cities keen to secure or retain access to the nation's capital.

Four other airlines that already fly to Reagan were allowed to start longer flights, but they had to drop a service to a closer-in city as Reagan is congested and can only add a limited number of new services.

Air Canada, AC.B.T -3.33% Sun Country Airlines and the Frontier Airlines unit of Republic Airways Holdings Inc. RJET +0.20% lost out in the contest for new Reagan flights.

Alaska will launch a flight to Portland, Ore., JetBlue will fly to San Juan, Puerto Rico, Southwest is adding an Austin, Texas, service and Virgin America is cleared to operate to its San Francisco base. All except Southwest had applied to launch two daily flights but received permission to start just one.

The U.S Department of Transportation's move will nearly double the number of flights allowed to operate from Reagan to airports more than 1,250 miles away, diluting restrictions in place since the 1960s.

Four incumbent carriers at Reagan—units of AMR Corp. and United Continental Holdings Inc., UAL -0.37% Delta Air Lines Inc. DAL +0.44% and US Airways Group Inc. LCC -0.66% —are splitting four new round-trip flights between them.

Airlines are allowed to operate only narrow-body planes on all of the new routes, with new restrictions also limiting the time of day that flights can operate.

Write to Doug Cameron at doug.cameron@dowjones.com


(Via Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304192704577404212939172888.html))

Johnny Aussie
May 14, 2012, 9:33 PM
:previous:

I goofed again. I'm a baaaaaaaad boy ............. :(

Not you! I meant the media... it would be nice for a change if they actually printed a newsworthy story not some rehashed rubbish over and over again.

Gordon
May 14, 2012, 10:12 PM
If we can't get year-around YVR- DCA then seasonal YVR - IAD would also work

rxp
May 18, 2012, 8:04 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-canadian-airline-begins-daily-flights-from-ohare-20120515,0,6236717.story
(http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-canadian-airline-begins-daily-flights-from-ohare-20120515,0,6236717.story)
direct flights to Ohare on westjet from Van

Bigtime
May 18, 2012, 12:53 PM
They couldn't bother to get a stock photo of a WestJet aircraft? Instead they use a FS screenshot?

SpongeG
May 18, 2012, 6:45 PM
Virgin airline starts next week, may 24, - hopefully can get down and watch one land

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/156454_10151703440670004_754850003_23681870_1605459064_n.jpg
pic by me

hollywoodnorth
May 18, 2012, 8:42 PM
Fri, May 18: Sichaun airline will now start flying into Vancouver International Airport - boosting tourism from China.

http://www.globaltvbc.com/video/index.html?v=pEKtWyOceoIcGgSEaR4PnDpqRo2JUYDy#stories/video

Hot Rod
May 20, 2012, 8:21 PM
wonderful - especially considering my wife is from Sichuan! :)

Too bad Sichuan Airline is not Star Alliance. But it is great for Vancouver to get another foreign carrier and something that isn't Star.

Isn't there a plan for Xiamen Airlines nonstop as well as Hainan?

trofirhen
May 21, 2012, 12:35 AM
Great news about Sichuan Airlines! Hopefully, here's one that won't overfly into Toronto! Great news too about snazzy Virgin Atlantic to London. ... If only there were a couple more into Europe (and no I don't mean just Paris!!!)

ACT7
May 21, 2012, 2:51 AM
I wonder if this will eat into some other YVR Asian flights. As this will be almost purely O&D traffic, I'm not so sure it can last without any alliance for connecting traffic.

Hot Rod
May 23, 2012, 3:43 AM
I wonder if this will eat into some other YVR Asian flights. As this will be almost purely O&D traffic, I'm not so sure it can last without any alliance for connecting traffic.

it should not as it does not connect in PEK, PVG, or CAN. Those 3 already have flights and are all daily (or will be) or bi-daily nonstops to YVR.

Sichuan opens up an entirely new market route CTU-YVR, via Shenyang and expands YVR as a Star-Alliance hub. Entirely new market overall and the airplane to be used is A330-200, not too big to canibalize but big enough to establish the route. I'd expect if it is successful that it be nonstop CTU-YVR if Sichuan can get some of the 787's from Star-Alliance partner and flag carrier - Air China.

red-paladin
May 24, 2012, 2:45 PM
Richard Branson's airline opens Vancouver-London route
Round-trip 'Upper Class' Virgin Atlantic service to London set at $5,500

CBC News
Posted: May 24, 2012 6:28 AM PT
Last Updated: May 24, 2012 6:26 AM PT



British billionaire Sir Richard Branson is touching down in B.C.’s Lower Mainland Thursday to launch a new airline service between Vancouver and London.

Although announced last year, the Vancouver route had not become established prior to the arrival of the flamboyant businessman.

Travel agent Brad Davies said he is looking forward to offering the new travel option.

"I know for myself and my colleagues and competitors, we welcome Virgin with open arms. It's a world-class carrier and it certainly good there is competition," Davies said.

Although Virgin does offer some economy fares comparable to other airlines, it’s best known for its higher-end service.

Round-trip fares for flights to or from London in what Virgin calls its “Upper Class” section will start at more than $5,500.

For that, a traveller gets a seat that turns into a bed at the push of a button, complimentary limousine service to and from the airport and meals from an haute-cuisine menu, among other amenities.

Branson is famous for his publicity stunts and his adventurous projects, including failed attempts to circle the globe in a balloon and cross the Atlantic Ocean in a motorboat.

When Branson opened the Virgin record store in Vancouver in the 1990s, he rappelled down the side of the downtown building.

On Thursday, he’s sticking with a more conventional means of travel — aboard one of his airline’s fleet of 40 passenger jets.
From http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/05/23/bc-virgin-atlantic-branson.html

hollywoodnorth
May 25, 2012, 1:30 AM
New airline option
Virgin Atlantic's first landing in Vancouver could mark new savings for passengers


video story at >> http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/Canada/BC/1258521056/ID=2239004616

deasine
May 25, 2012, 5:08 AM
New airline option
Virgin Atlantic's first landing in Vancouver could mark new savings for passengers


video story at >> http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/Canada/BC/1258521056/ID=2239004616

I wonder where they got their statistics from, because AC prices to LHR during low season, direct, can get as low as $900. Moreover, Virgin Atlantic only brings increased competition to London and not to Europe: Virgin Atlantic is only international and has no short-haul and medium-haul flights. Ironically, it's feeder traffic from other parts of the UK actually comes from British Airways (and even when BMI existed under the Lufthansa family, it was British Airways that carried most of its connecting passengers).

SpongeG
May 25, 2012, 6:33 AM
a big chunk of the cost for london flights is the landing fee at heathrow its really expensive to land there

if those flight centre prices are to be believed they usually show it as $399 + $749 in taxes in fees - the fees and taxes are usually close to double the fare

anyway i flew virgin from london to joburg and at the time it was the cheapeast fare of all the options doing the same route by about 100 GBP

st7860
May 28, 2012, 12:28 AM
a big chunk of the cost for london flights is the landing fee at heathrow its really expensive to land there

if those flight centre prices are to be believed they usually show it as $399 + $749 in taxes in fees - the fees and taxes are usually close to double the fare

anyway i flew virgin from london to joburg and at the time it was the cheapeast fare of all the options doing the same route by about 100 GBP

wow i checked out on expedia - flights from toronto to glasgow are just $727 including tax(june) - landing fees must be much lower there

SpongeG
May 28, 2012, 4:23 AM
sorry for going off topic but i saw this posted on facebook by someone i know - the fees to land in the states are crazy...

Flying from Toronto $311.62

Air Traveller Security Charge $ 24.20
NAV and Surcharges $ 35.00
GST $ 9.36
Harmonized Sales Tax $ 5.20
Airport Improvement Fee $ 40.00
US transportation Tax $ 34.10
US Agriculture Tax $ 10.22
US Immigration Tax $ 14.30
US Customs Processing Fee $ 11.24

Returning to Toronto $198.54

NAV and Surcharges $ 15.00
GST $ 7.16
Passenger Facility Charge $ 9.18
Sep 11th US Security Tax $ 5.10
US transportation Tax $ 34.10

cornholio
May 28, 2012, 5:11 AM
London is always pretty expensive. Anyone know what their landing fees actually break down to?

With airtransat and condor you can get tickets round trip for $500-$750 to Frankfurt or Amsterdam direct from Vancouver and that is even a further flight. London for example with airtransat is always atleast $200-300 more (Condor only flies to frankfurt as their a lufhansa company)

trofirhen
May 28, 2012, 11:17 AM
... they show relatively little interest in anything but YYC > Asia flights. Understandably, as they don't have any year-round scheduled service there. We take a lot for granted here in YVR. Just a few more key overseas connections (IST, for example) and we'd have it "licked," so to speak.

I think one main objective for YVR (if not the overarching one) is not to be eclipsed by SEA-TAC or maybe even YYC ..... or BLI for that matter (only on certain flights from there, obviously)

Hourglass
May 28, 2012, 12:13 PM
:previous:
YYC has year-round service to Tokyo on Air Canada (announced Feb 2012)

trofirhen
May 28, 2012, 1:58 PM
:previous:
YYC has year-round service to Tokyo on Air Canada (announced Feb 2012)
:previous:

:koko:Excuse my ignorance (I goofed again), but ... :yes: Good stuff! I was looking at the SSP YYC airport page, and they all seemed happy about the upcoming Narita flights, (which connect with Star Alliance ANA there) but seemed to very much want a Hong Kong route as well.

deasine
May 28, 2012, 6:46 PM
London is always pretty expensive. Anyone know what their landing fees actually break down to?

Sample Itinerary. Now the UK YQ (taxes, fees, surcharges) for Economy class is much much lower than in Business and/or First (it's$215.00+ on a sample flight).






Vancouver Airport Improvement Fee (SQ) CA$20.00 Canadian Harmonized Sales Tax (BC) (RC) CA$2.40 Canadian Air Travelers Security Charge (CA) CA$25.91 United Kingdom Air Passengers Duty (GB) CA$107.50 United Kingdom Passenger Service Charge (UB) CA$57.00
Subtotal per passenger CA$1,462.81 Number of passengers x1
Total airfare & taxes CA$1,462.81

This ticket is non-refundable.
Changes to this ticket will incur a penalty fee.




Airfare is never really based on distances (it's a small factor), but on supply and demand and costs of operation.

SpongeG
May 28, 2012, 8:15 PM
JSfV5atdj7k

hollywoodnorth
May 28, 2012, 9:57 PM
JSfV5atdj7k

LOL he said .... Vancouverians ... he needs to use WIKI more I thinks.

SpongeG
May 28, 2012, 10:08 PM
yeah the other press made fun of him

HZcEk5OZfAA

SpongeG
May 28, 2012, 10:10 PM
there was a flashmob at the aiport last week apparently

Hc1D7ZaQ51s

Johnny Aussie
May 29, 2012, 9:30 AM
Sichuan hasn't even started their new YVR-SHE-CTU route and they have just extended it to year-round. Originally it was to go to end of October.

http://airlineroute.net/2012/05/29/3u-yvr-w12

deasine
May 29, 2012, 9:42 AM
Sichuan hasn't even started their new YVR-SHE-CTU route and they have just extended it to year-round. Originally it was to go to end of October.

http://airlineroute.net/2012/05/29/3u-yvr-w12

I guess they are really confident about their route.

Johnny Aussie
May 30, 2012, 2:14 AM
Another respectable showing.

Overall up 4.8% (YTD up 5.0%)
Domestic up 5.4% (YTD up 4.9%)
Transborder up 4.6% (YTD up 5.4%)
Asia Pacific up 5.0% (YTD up 6.0%)
Europe up 0.7% (YTD up 2.6%)
Misc International up 3.6% (YTD up 3.1%)

Cargo also up 2.0% (but YTD down 1.3%).

And South terminal showing a decent increase of 16% after getting off to a bad start.

mezzanine
Jun 13, 2012, 3:15 AM
Hello....

Air Canada is shifting its strategy for launching a discount operation, focusing on locating a new low-cost international carrier in Vancouver in a bid to tap into the potential of Asian destinations.
...
Plans call for the new entity to take over Air Canada's overseas flights in and out of Vancouver on wide-body aircraft. Some pilots and flight attendants will be from Canada and others could be based offshore.
...
Mr. Rovinescu was in Vancouver last week during a meeting of the Star Alliance. He met with a senior B.C. government official to provide a briefing on Air Canada's vision for raising Vancouver's profile as an international aviation hub.
...
Union leaders are upset that Air Canada wants to borrow major elements of the strategy deployed by Australia's Qantas, which runs the low-cost operation Jetstar with airline partners in an array of Asian markets, including service to Japan, Singapore and Vietnam. Qantas has expansion plans slated next year in a Hong Kong-based joint venture with China Eastern Airlines Co. Ltd. for China, Japan and South Korea.
...
Air Canada would like to sign up a partner from China, though it is also possible that the Vancouver-based joint venture could instead involve a European-based carrier such as Virgin Atlantic, which is 51 per cent owned by British billionaire Richard Branson and 49 per cent by Singapore Airlines.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/air-canada-eyes-asia-for-low-cost-airline/article4253877/

Valley_Refugee
Jun 13, 2012, 4:11 AM
Just saw this too! Woah! Not sure what to make of it, exactly. I think it could definitely be a good thing and lead to a bump of the list of destinations served from YVR. On the other hand, does it signal Air Canada giving up on business travel? Does the Qantas venture, Jetstar, offer business service? I also have friends who work for AC out of Vancouver, so probably not good news for some of them.

st7860
Jun 13, 2012, 4:18 AM
Well I don't think any of the Asian carriers have such high wage costs

mezzanine
Jun 13, 2012, 5:02 AM
I dont k now what to make of it either, but if we are able to get a vancouver-based airline that has more labour flexibility that would be huge and bodes well for overall traffic growth to YVR.

The tricky part is where they now to plan to make it fully independent of aircanada and star alliance. i don't know how well that will work, but is see a huge potential upside to that. heck, maybe they'll even name it "Canadian Airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Airlines)"...

Jetstar seems to have a business class. If anything, jetstar seems to be doing well, while qantas faces stiff competition and similar rigid restrictions similar to AC. perhaps johnny aussie has more perspective.

whatnext
Jun 13, 2012, 5:59 AM
I dont k now what to make of it either, but if we are able to get a vancouver-based airline that has more labour flexibility that would be huge and bodes well for overall traffic growth to YVR.

The tricky part is where they now to plan to make it fully independent of aircanada and star alliance. i don't know how well that will work, but is see a huge potential upside to that. heck, maybe they'll even name it "Canadian Airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Airlines)"...

Jetstar seems to have a business class. If anything, jetstar seems to be doing well, while qantas faces stiff competition and similar rigid restrictions similar to AC. perhaps johnny aussie has more perspective.

Yeah for all the good that will do them when they've got 11 months to get that by the BC gov't before Christy and the BC Liberals go down in flames to Adrian Dix and the NDP.

Gordon
Jun 13, 2012, 2:02 PM
I don't think a change in government would affect this because the NDP aren't likely to anything to coast B.C. jobs.

Valley_Refugee
Jun 13, 2012, 3:33 PM
Naming it Canadian Airlines might actually be a smart move! I think the Canadian name still has goodwill capital to spend with the public...I *still* hear people wishing we had Canadian around.

ACT7
Jun 13, 2012, 3:44 PM
Part of the article stated that Vancouver has been an underperforming market for AC on international routes and that AC is trying to figure out how to make Vancouver work, hence the desire to refocus on low-cost alternatives.

I assume that part of the strategy is to free up some of the higher yield aircraft for South America and higher yield routes out of YYZ. So it seems to speak to the fact that Asian traffic out of YVR is predominantly VFR and AC is unable to compete with the likes of Air China, China Eastern, etc.

Will be interesting to see if this materializes.

incognism
Jun 13, 2012, 4:37 PM
From a consumer standpoint, AC's pricing for the YVR-HKG route is somewhat bizarre.

They've chosen to basically match CX's pricing, which makes sense on the surface since they're the only two non-stop options on the route.

The price-sensitive travellers are priced-out of AC's offering, and generally will book one-stop options with Air China (PEK), or China Eastern (PVG).

So that leaves AC in direct competition for CX -- and since they aren't competing with CX on price, that pretty much only leaves competing with them on service.

In Economy, it's pretty much a toss-up, although I'd venture to guess that CX has a better brand presence overall. Nonetheless, the two products in cattle class is fairly similar.

However, in Business, AC's product (especially their soft product) is vastly inferior to CX. They are consistently either equal or above Cathay's pricing in Business, and I can't imagine many people opting for AC unless they are Star Alliance diehards.

Long story short, the case for OD passengers to fly AC YVR-HKG is fairly weak. I'm not surprised they are struggling on this route.