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ACT7
Aug 2, 2012, 1:59 PM
They operate the A388 on the route because with only 3x weekly service they have to make the most of it, and that is why they deploy their largest aircraft there. To get the most seats (first, biz, and economy) into YYZ every week.

That was true when they initially launched the A380 into YYZ, but the route is so over-capacity right now, if given daily rights, they would almost certainly keep the A380. EK's true ultimate goal is double daily to YYZ before any other Canadian city. If they get double daily, that's when I could see them down gauging to 777's for both flight.

deasine
Aug 2, 2012, 8:01 PM
^Couldn't have said it better.

Well, yes and no to the bolded part. EK wants daily into YYZ, that is their ultimate goal, all this other talk of serving YVR and YYC is just to get daily rights into YYZ. When the government has called this bluff (and offered rights to fly into both airports with no additional YYZ they have rejected it).

They operate the A388 on the route because with only 3x weekly service they have to make the most of it, and that is why they deploy their largest aircraft there. To get the most seats (first, biz, and economy) into YYZ every week.

True, but EK won't run the big whale to a destination that doesn't achieve a high average load factor, or else they would be loosing a lot of money.

See below article as an indicator of EK's YYZ-route performance that ACT7 was alluding to. Capacity during low-season still performs above 80 percent from what I know.
Page said the marketing pact with Alaska would help attract traffic from California up to Vancouver. A diplomatic spat between Canada and the United Arab Emirates over airline access has prevented Emirates adding more direct flights to Canada, even though Page said load factors on its Toronto flights reached 99% last week.
(emphasis mine)
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120119-719062.html

trofirhen
Aug 2, 2012, 11:51 PM
:previous:
According to the article noted, Emirates traffic into Seattle is picking up, too, so they're adding capacity there.

Too bad lil' ol' Vancouver (once again) got left out in the cold. We're a spoke, like it or not, and will never be a true hub (yes I know, geographical location is a big part of it, but so are protectionist Canadian policies).

Klazu
Aug 3, 2012, 3:17 AM
I know Dubai is a big hub in its region and connects Europe and Eastern North America with Asia, but isn't it too far from Vancouver to be a hub? I would imagine flying for example India being shorter westbound? So in that sense Emirates connection would only server as a destination-to-destination connection. Nothing bad with that either, as Dubai is a facinating place to see and so crazy that you just must love it.

Hot Rod
Aug 3, 2012, 7:41 PM
to be honest, SEA is a smaller spoke than YVR.

Hourglass
Aug 3, 2012, 9:42 PM
Anyone know what is being built on the north side of the north runway? Haven't seen any info or announcements.

trofirhen
Aug 3, 2012, 10:56 PM
to be honest, SEA is a smaller spoke than YVR.
:previous:
Yeah. Myabe a smaller spoke. Also a bigger hub for most thngs anyway. Royal Air Maroc via New York to Casablnca. One more European destination than Vancouver. And of course, Emirates to Dubai.

As far as I'm concerned, for Vancouver it could just as well be QATAR Airways. That takes away any of the stigma surrounding EK or Dubai itself.
This is great for ongoing flights to Nairobi, Jo'burg, and such.

Right now there are numerous flights on EK Dubai - India / Various cities. I think if / when a 787 over the pole reg. service to India is introduced, (and there is a market in Vancouver) the feds might allow something like Qatar Air.

The Persian Gulf region over on the other side of the planet, makes a great connection point (at its airports) to other places on the other side of the planet, it's not really very complicated.

Another great destination for mid east and African connections, as I've said, would be Istanbul, (YVR reps will tell you that) though I doubt that's in the cards for many years.

Klazu
Aug 3, 2012, 11:08 PM
I have flown a few times via Istanbul and the airport there is great. Also Turkish Airlines is a great high quality airline with good prices. I am sure they will make their target of being a 5* airline very soon.

Gordon
Aug 3, 2012, 11:12 PM
The construction on the noth side of the north runway is probably the new Candada Post mail plant.
Sea tac is a hub becaue of Alaska Airlines

YVR is a growing Asian Gateway. More South and South East Asia serices would be nice. India makes so much sense.

The federl government needs to re-asses the the taxation structure that affects Commercial aviation.

trofirhen
Aug 3, 2012, 11:48 PM
I have flown a few times via Istanbul and the airport there is great. Also Turkish Airlines is a great high quality airline with good prices. I am sure they will make their target of being a 5* airline very soon.
:previous:
I was only there once, but I agree the airport is great; airy, easy to navigate, good signage. Do you think there could ever b enough market for IST-YVR sched. service on Turkish? They're Star Alliance, which simplifies things a bit. I guess the question is: is there a market? If the catchment area included Seattle, maybe Portland, it could be a go, though I doubt it very much.

Too bad, because not only Istanbul a fantastic destination in and of itself, but the location provides great ongoing connections to remoter areas of the planet.

whatnext
Aug 3, 2012, 11:50 PM
The construction on the noth side of the north runway is probably the new Candada Post mail plant.
Sea tac is a hub becaue of Alaska Airlines

YVR is a growing Asian Gateway. More South and South East Asia serices would be nice. India makes so much sense.

The federl government needs to re-asses the the taxation structure that affects Commercial aviation.

It is indeed the new Canada Post plant. Got a pic of it the other day, but could only get maybe 50% of it in the shot:

http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy177/Whatnext2010/CanadaPostYVR.jpg

ACT7
Aug 4, 2012, 2:27 AM
India makes so much sense.

India is such a low yield market though that it doesn't make sense. So many North American carriers have tried and failed to make DEL work and they just can't compete with the cost structure of AI, 9W, and EK, etc. If true hubs like ORD and YYZ were both unsuccessful with UA and AC respectively, it's unlikely that YVR, with substantially less high yield traffic, will succeed.

As is stands, Hong Kong, Tokyo, and Beijing all provide decent connections to India and they are all well served out of YVR.

Hourglass
Aug 4, 2012, 5:31 AM
The construction on the noth side of the north runway is probably the new Candada Post mail plant.


It is indeed the new Canada Post plant. Got a pic of it the other day, but could only get maybe 50% of it in the shot:

http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy177/Whatnext2010/CanadaPostYVR.jpg

Thanks for the info, Gordon and whatnext

deasine
Aug 4, 2012, 7:01 PM
:previous:
According to the article noted, Emirates traffic into Seattle is picking up, too, so they're adding capacity there.

Too bad lil' ol' Vancouver (once again) got left out in the cold. We're a spoke, like it or not, and will never be a true hub (yes I know, geographical location is a big part of it, but so are protectionist Canadian policies).

The article is dated in January, prior to the introduction of the DXB-SEA EK flight.

Hot Rod
Aug 5, 2012, 7:02 AM
:previous:
Yeah. Myabe a smaller spoke. Also a bigger hub for most thngs anyway. Royal Air Maroc via New York to Casablnca. One more European destination than Vancouver. And of course, Emirates to Dubai.

As far as I'm concerned, for Vancouver it could just as well be QATAR Airways. That takes away any of the stigma surrounding EK or Dubai itself.
This is great for ongoing flights to Nairobi, Jo'burg, and such.

Right now there are numerous flights on EK Dubai - India / Various cities. I think if / when a 787 over the pole reg. service to India is introduced, (and there is a market in Vancouver) the feds might allow something like Qatar Air.

The Persian Gulf region over on the other side of the planet, makes a great connection point (at its airports) to other places on the other side of the planet, it's not really very complicated.

Another great destination for mid east and African connections, as I've said, would be Istanbul, (YVR reps will tell you that) though I doubt that's in the cards for many years.

I dont disagree with your desires for YVR, I just think you are a bit too over-impressed with SEA.

Like was said, SEA only has a hub due to Alaska Airlines and it isn't even a major player. But it does give SEA excellent access to the national scene and Delta fills in the void left by United and adds a few transpacific routes.

I'd love to see Air Canada and Star build YVR into a robust fortress, perhaps that is forthcoming with the new airplanes coming onboard shortly. But I dont think YVR has anything to worry about with SEA, it isn't on anyone's expansion radar only trial and (use it or lose it).

In my opinion, SEA is just a much larger BLI in the Vancouver Air Route scheme of things, SFO and LAX are the true players. That said, it is nice to have so many options in this neck of the woods....

fishboy
Aug 5, 2012, 3:40 PM
"In my opinion, SEA is just a much larger BLI in the Vancouver Air Route scheme of things, SFO and LAX are the true players. That said, it is nice to have so many options in this neck of the woods...."

Some actual facts here might be helpful. 2011 passenger counts:

LAX 61 million
SFO 40 million
YYZ 33 million
SEA 32 million
BWI 21 million
YVR 17 million

Hourglass
Aug 5, 2012, 7:18 PM
"In my opinion, SEA is just a much larger BLI in the Vancouver Air Route scheme of things, SFO and LAX are the true players. That said, it is nice to have so many options in this neck of the woods...."

Some actual facts here might be helpful. 2011 passenger counts:

LAX 61 million
SFO 40 million
YYZ 33 million
SEA 32 million
BWI 21 million
YVR 17 million

Given that the US has roughly 10x the population of Canada, the more relevant statistic here might be international traffic -- esp since most of SEA's volumes are domestic passengers. By that measure, YVR is third (after SFO) on the west coast.

trofirhen
Aug 5, 2012, 8:00 PM
Does "BWI" mean BLI, and refer to Bellingham? If so, it's busier than Vancouver!

Gordon
Aug 5, 2012, 8:06 PM
BWI is baltomore\Washington International Airport

hollywoodnorth
Aug 9, 2012, 7:45 AM
not YVR related but close


Kelowna-LAX flights set to boost Interior ski business
United and WestJet flights set to make Big White most accessible Canadian ski destination for L.A.

http://www.biv.com/article/20120807/BIV0106/308079924/-1/BIV/kelowna-lax-flights-set-to-boost-interior-ski-business

giallo
Aug 9, 2012, 11:15 AM
^ I'll be using that flight (Westjet) to go down to LA next January.

Hot Rod
Aug 12, 2012, 5:36 AM
Given that the US has roughly 10x the population of Canada, the more relevant statistic here might be international traffic -- esp since most of SEA's volumes are domestic passengers. By that measure, YVR is third (after SFO) on the west coast.

As was my point

bils
Aug 12, 2012, 11:51 PM
a single caterpillar is on the site of the outlet mall and has begun clearing some of the brush.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 15, 2012, 10:48 PM
I have been darting in and out of town recently and had the pleasure of catching up with a former colleague now at VAA and talked about future prospects.

Of course, I will be as vague as possible but here are some of the possible things in the works:

CA - Air China will possibly be adding flights again like last summer. Seems like PEK capacity reduced too much (down to only 1 daily) so will probably see more flights added (maybe even 2 daily).
MU - China Eastern may further increase to 2 daily as well.
CZ - China Southern possibly to daily, their ultimate goal of course.
LH - still looking to possibly add more capacity.
VS - maybe adding one extra weekly. They have loaded the same sched for next year already anyway.

Who knows if any of this will happen. But none of this seems outside the realm of real possibility!

Johnny Aussie
Aug 17, 2012, 10:50 PM
http://www.theprovince.com/touch/life/story.html?id=7102651

Good to see ships moving back to being Vancouver based from Seattle and Europe.

So how does this affect YVR. Well let's use their estimate. Not sure if the total includes passengers embarking and disembarking (let's assume they do).

They expect about a 25% increase in passengers or 160,000.

Assuming, very conservatively, 80% from outside BC and then 50% use YVR as I recall many Americans would still fly into SEA then take a bus up to Vancouver. That would mean at least another ~ 13,000 - 15,000 pax per month from May to September.

casper
Aug 18, 2012, 2:58 AM
Assuming, very conservatively, 80% from outside BC and then 50% use YVR as I recall many Americans would still fly into SEA then take a bus up to Vancouver. That would mean at least another ~ 13,000 - 15,000 pax per month from May to September.

If you look at the cruise ship board (cruise critic) what appears to be a very popular option is Amtrak to Seattle. Then flying out of Seattle.

Langdon0630
Aug 18, 2012, 4:09 AM
http://www.theprovince.com/touch/life/story.html?id=7102651

Good to see ships moving back to being Vancouver based from Seattle and Europe.

So how does this affect YVR. Well let's use their estimate. Not sure if the total includes passengers embarking and disembarking (let's assume they do).

They expect about a 25% increase in passengers or 160,000.

Assuming, very conservatively, 80% from outside BC and then 50% use YVR as I recall many Americans would still fly into SEA then take a bus up to Vancouver. That would mean at least another ~ 13,000 - 15,000 pax per month from May to September.

Part (or all?) of the increase is that Disney Cruise Line is coming back next year. They were in last year, and then decided to move to Seattle this year. But I heard that before this cruise season started, They HATE Seattle already lol, that's why they are back to Vancouver.

mr.x
Aug 18, 2012, 5:59 AM
Part (or all?) of the increase is that Disney Cruise Line is coming back next year. They were in last year, and then decided to move to Seattle this year. But I heard that before this cruise season started, They HATE Seattle already lol, that's why they are back to Vancouver.

In what context do they hate Seattle? And who is hating? Disney or the passengers?

Hourglass
Aug 18, 2012, 7:03 AM
The Disney Cruise Line president said earlier this year in an interview that being based in Seattle this year gave them a chance to gauge and compare the reaction of their guests to both Vancouver and Seattle as Alaska homeports (http://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Disney-Cruise-Line-adds-New-York,-Seattle-and-Galveston-homeports/)

Don't know about the 'hate' for Seattle, but interesting that in the Province article, Disney does talk about the very positive reaction of their passengers to Vancouver as a homeport. Hope they stay for a while!

Johnny Aussie
Aug 18, 2012, 8:02 AM
Part (or all?) of the increase is that Disney Cruise Line is coming back next year. They were in last year, and then decided to move to Seattle this year. But I heard that before this cruise season started, They HATE Seattle already lol, that's why they are back to Vancouver.

The major increases are coming from Disney and Norwegian plus additional sailings by Holland America.

casper
Aug 18, 2012, 8:09 AM
The Disney Cruise Line president said earlier this year in an interview that being based in Seattle this year gave them a chance to gauge and compare the reaction of their guests to both Vancouver and Seattle as Alaska homeports (http://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Disney-Cruise-Line-adds-New-York,-Seattle-and-Galveston-homeports/)

Don't know about the 'hate' for Seattle, but interesting that in the Province article, Disney does talk about the very positive reaction of their passengers to Vancouver as a homeport. Hope they stay for a while!

None of these ships are registered in the US, for that reason they have to do a round trip back to the same port or they have to have a stop in a foreign country (Canada) to be legal. The Seattle based ships doing the one way sailing to Alaska usually stop in Victoria for a day or so to make the trip international and legal. In the case of Vancouver based ships, they usually do US customs pre-clearance when boarding in Vancouver and then Canadian customs when arriving back in Vancouver and disembarking. Perhaps it is easier to do the customs that way than mid journey with a Seattle sailing?

Norwegian cruise lines does not have a ship home porting in Vancouver this year but they plan one ship scheduled to home port in Vancouver next year. So its not just Disney that is expanding into Vancouver.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 18, 2012, 8:20 AM
Looks like the race is on to handle all the additional cruise ship passengers... Kidding!

Delta launching daily YVR - JFK next summer on 737-800 equipment.

http://airlineroute.net/2012/08/18/dl-jfkyvr-s13/

Hourglass
Aug 18, 2012, 9:41 AM
Looks like the race is on to handle all the additional cruise ship passengers... Kidding!

Delta launching daily YVR - JFK next summer on 737-800 equipment.

http://airlineroute.net/2012/08/18/dl-jfkyvr-s13/

Lol, I was going to post this, but you beat me to th punch.

With the timing, it definitely looks like Delta is targeting cruise traffic -- and maybe some onward connection opportunities from YVR to Europe via JFK. Still prefer the CX flight given that it's a widebody, but the late (early?) arrival is a bit of a pain...

Gordon
Aug 18, 2012, 2:14 PM
The Amsterdam made 1 pre-season stop in Vancouver, she is based in Seattle. Nice to see Delta adding more service to Vancouver.

I'd like to see West Jet's SFO service become yearround.

casper
Aug 18, 2012, 3:28 PM
The Amsterdam made 1 pre-season stop in Vancouver, she is based in Seattle. Nice to see Delta adding more service to Vancouver.

I'd like to see West Jet's SFO service become yearround.

Most of the other cruise lines do the same thing. When they reposition the ships from the Caribbean through the panama cannel then end up somewhere in California (LA or San Francisco). Since the ship is not US flagged they can't legally sell a cruise from a port in California to Seattle. It has to be an international route, so the cruise line will run a cruise to Vancouver then reposition to Seattle for the season. Same thing in reverse at the end of the season.

wrenegade
Sep 4, 2012, 11:21 PM
Photo for Canada Post's Pacific Processing Centre, September 1st.

This puppy is huge (700,000 sf), but more than just the number, the comparison to the UPS facility (sorry no photo) next door really puts it into perspective.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8295/7933253376_dde6c6d0d4_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexwrenphoto/7933253376/)
IMG_0975.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexwrenphoto/7933253376/) by Alex.Wren.Photo (http://www.flickr.com/people/alexwrenphoto/), on Flickr

SFUVancouver
Sep 6, 2012, 7:39 PM
Does anyone know whether there will be a shuttle service that connects the Canada Post facility and the closest Canada Line SkyTrain station?

nname
Sep 6, 2012, 10:10 PM
Does anyone know whether there will be a shuttle service that connects the Canada Post facility and the closest Canada Line SkyTrain station?

There used to be a TransLink C90 route going there, but it was cancelled just 3 days ago due to low ridership... I think the route got about 5 weekday riders before it was cancelled...

rxp
Sep 7, 2012, 8:44 PM
did anyone watch Border Security Canada yesterday? They aired 2 episodes on Nat Geo and were showing our CBSA officers in action at YVR....

I cant seem to find the link on Nat Geos website for the show....

whatnext
Sep 8, 2012, 7:34 AM
YVR is easting no time clearing the antediluvian pre-load on the outlet mall site. Tandem dump trucks have been working at a breakneck pace, and its pretty much all gone (wonder where it went?).

trofirhen
Sep 8, 2012, 2:44 PM
I'd like to see some renders and floor plans of the new, revamped Piers A and B of the Domestic Terminal, which will apparently be, primarily if not exclusively, for West Jet. This means, I would assume, a greater capacity for West Jet at YVR, and who knows, ....... could it be possible that Vancouver may, one day in the future mists, become a Hub City for WJ? (probably not, but perchance to dream .....)

Zassk
Sep 13, 2012, 10:04 PM
a single caterpillar is on the site of the outlet mall and has begun clearing some of the brush.

There are now six diggers, additional earth movers and one oversized dump truck, a project office trailer, and a nonstop parade of double-dump trucks removing dirt from the site. Work appears to be going on 7 days a week. This pace has been ongoing for at least 2 weeks.

I guess this development is a fait accompli.

Perhaps they will at least put a pedestrian bridge over to Aberdeen Station (which is about 400m away over the water).

teriyaki
Sep 14, 2012, 7:45 AM
Perhaps they will at least put a pedestrian bridge over to Aberdeen Station (which is about 400m away over the water).

Great idea, I would love for this to happen. But I think there is 0% chance of this happening in Vancouver for a multitude of reasons.

One being, the weather here isn't conducive to lots of foot traffic (uncovered atleast).
Second, the cost/red tape to construct such a structure would turn any developer away.
Third. The target demographic they are looking to attract wouldn't likely be using transit anyways so a footbridge would not give them any gains in customer flow.

MalcolmTucker
Sep 14, 2012, 3:10 PM
I'd like to see some renders and floor plans of the new, revamped Piers A and B of the Domestic Terminal, which will apparently be, primarily if not exclusively, for West Jet. This means, I would assume, a greater capacity for West Jet at YVR, and who knows, ....... could it be possible that Vancouver may, one day in the future mists, become a Hub City for WJ? (probably not, but perchance to dream .....)
Unless they go for a massive overseas expansion, I don't think geography really favours Vancouver as a hub. In my experience with the prices for flights to Vancouver on WestJet, they are full of origin and destination passengers. When you can run lower capacity at high yeild, why would canabalize your own yield by adding the capacity necessary for a hub.

Porfiry
Sep 14, 2012, 4:36 PM
Third. The target demographic they are looking to attract wouldn't likely be using transit anyways so a footbridge would not give them any gains in customer flow.

I don't agree with that. Outlet malls, regardless of the retailers, are designed to attract price-sensitive individuals. YVR itself would also seem to disagree with you, since they supposedly are planning a shuttle service from one of the Canada Line stations (probably Templeton or SIC). This is probably good enough for now, and depending how nice/frequent the shuttle is, perhaps a better option than a footbridge.

Zassk
Sep 14, 2012, 4:36 PM
Great idea, I would love for this to happen. But I think there is 0% chance of this happening in Vancouver for a multitude of reasons.

One being, the weather here isn't conducive to lots of foot traffic (uncovered atleast).
Second, the cost/red tape to construct such a structure would turn any developer away.
Third. The target demographic they are looking to attract wouldn't likely be using transit anyways so a footbridge would not give them any gains in customer flow.

Said bridge is actually detailed in the Richmond Official Community Plan (intended for the BCIT campus, not this mall, but it would be equally useful to both). In my ideal world, YVR would pay to have the bridge built immediately in exchange for the city's endorsement of the mall.

trofirhen
Sep 15, 2012, 3:53 AM
Unless they go for a massive overseas expansion, I don't think geography really favours Vancouver as a hub. In my experience with the prices for flights to Vancouver on WestJet, they are full of origin and destination passengers. When you can run lower capacity at high yeild, why would canabalize your own yield by adding the capacity necessary for a hub.
:previous:

You're right on about my ides about Vancouver ever being a WJ hub city, due it's "end of the line" geographic location.

But equally, I was wondering what the revamped YVR Pier A and B structure, primarily to devoted to WJ anyway I am told, would look like, be like, how it would add to the airport, and so on.

Hourglass
Sep 15, 2012, 4:19 AM
I don't agree with that. Outlet malls, regardless of the retailers, are designed to attract price-sensitive individuals. YVR itself would also seem to disagree with you, since they supposedly are planning a shuttle service from one of the Canada Line stations (probably Templeton or SIC). This is probably good enough for now, and depending how nice/frequent the shuttle is, perhaps a better option than a footbridge.

True but it doesn't necessarily hold that bargain hunters will primarily take transit. Best comparison I can think of is Bicester Village in the UK, which attracts huge numbers of local and overseas visitors. Although there are coaches direct from Central London as well as shuttles to and from the local train station, I would say the majority of visitors drive.

Porfiry
Sep 15, 2012, 5:26 AM
True but it doesn't necessarily hold that bargain hunters will primarily take transit. Best comparison I can think of is Bicester Village in the UK, which attracts huge numbers of local and overseas visitors. Although there are coaches direct from Central London as well as shuttles to and from the local train station, I would say the majority of visitors drive.

I don't see how that is even remotely comparable. Bicester is located in the middle of farmland nearly an hour from any major city. The train runs only a few times per hour and costs $85 (!) for a return ticket.

Hourglass
Sep 15, 2012, 6:51 AM
I don't see how that is even remotely comparable. Bicester is located in the middle of farmland nearly an hour from any major city. The train runs only a few times per hour and costs $85 (!) for a return ticket.

1 hour from central London, you mean, a lot closer than that to Oxford, Aylesbury or other commuter towns, and prices on Chiltern Railways from London Marylebone can be significantly less than $85.

My point is that YVR is trying to build a destination outlet mall similar to Bicester or Ingolstadt. You think this is targeted only at Vancouver (ignoring for a moment the question of whether wealthy West Side bargain hunters will take transit)? What about people from the Tricities, Surrey or the Fraser Valley? You think they're all going to take the bus or Skytrain? So yes, I believe it is a valid comparison.

SpongeG
Sep 15, 2012, 4:22 PM
for trof re expansions

1X0vQeR1BAg

Porfiry
Sep 15, 2012, 4:37 PM
1 hour from central London, you mean, a lot closer than that to Oxford, Aylesbury or other commuter towns, and prices on Chiltern Railways from London Marylebone can be significantly less than $85.

Well, every fare I can find says 27.15 pounds (~$43) one-way. A train ticket that's 10X the cost and 2X the distance is not remotely comparable.

My point is that YVR is trying to build a destination outlet mall similar to Bicester or Ingolstadt.

I think you fundamentally misunderstand the strategy. A destination mall could be built anywhere. The purpose for building it at YVR is to siphon off and monetize the through traffic (transient airport goers plus commuters). It's a lot easier to entice those transients to visit than to convince someone to drive from an hour away.

I'm not saying everyone will take transit, but they're not all going to drive either. To say that transit users aren't even a part of the target demographic is just wrong. If you think YVR should ignore transit for this project, you'd best talk to them first because it's pretty clear it's an important part of their thinking.

Hourglass
Sep 17, 2012, 6:56 AM
^
I never stated that YVR should ignore transit. I said people will primarily drive -- and cited a a couple data points from other outlet malls internationally to support this. This is further supported by statements from the Mayor of Richmond in the Richmond Review (http://www.richmondreview.com/news/162803386.html): "It's basically a mall with a sea of parking around it. Would we let any mall owner anywhere in Richmond these days do that?"

Brodie doesn't agree that Prada shoppers will line up for transit. I think he's got a point.

In contrast, you seem focused on two ideas: (i) the planned shuttle bus from the Canada Line and (ii) that outlet malls attract bargain hunters -- which you then conclude means people who are either price sensitive or with limited budgets who will therefore rely more on transit. I've got news for you: the demographic who chase discounts on designer labels extends far beyond the price sensitive / limited budget audience. Who doesn't like Armani at 30-70% off?

This is a destination OUTLET mall -- hence my comparison with other destination outlet malls such as Bicester, Ingolstadt, the Barberino designer outlet and others (which for some reason you can't seem to accept). Why else do you think YVR is partnering with McArthurGlen instead of, say, Cadillac Fairview? I agree with you that the the mall will capitalize on airport traffic and its position near commuter routes -- but that isn't enough to support this development. Successful outlet malls have a pretty wide catchment area. An INSEAD study from a few years ago suggested that the average distance traveled by customers to an outlet mall ranged from 30-80 miles. Remember, that's average distance. So it's easy to see why the Citygate outlet mall outside the airport in Hong Kong would attract an unbelievable amount of people from across the border in Mainland China, or that the Parndorf outlet near Vienna, Austria would be situated near the border with Slovakia -- or that the YVR mall is targeting more than airport traffic and commuters. Draw a circle 80 miles around Richmond. How much of the population in this circle do you honestly see taking transit, and how many would drive? There may be higher transit use due to its proximity to Vancouver, but the vast majority of people will still drive.

I've got the strategy wrong? Well, maybe, but at least I'm basing my conclusions on more than a shuttle bus to the Canada line and a misconception about who potential customers are and where they will be coming from.

whatnext
Sep 17, 2012, 2:37 PM
...I'm not saying everyone will take transit, but they're not all going to drive either. To say that transit users aren't even a part of the target demographic is just wrong. If you think YVR should ignore transit for this project, you'd best talk to them first because it's pretty clear it's an important part of their thinking.

Huh? You're saying the infrequent C92 route (the only one that goes near this) is an important part of the mall planning?

Porfiry
Sep 17, 2012, 3:52 PM
Huh? You're saying the infrequent C92 route (the only one that goes near this) is an important part of the mall planning?

YVR is planning a free shuttle to and from Templeton.

Porfiry
Sep 17, 2012, 4:15 PM
^
I never stated that YVR should ignore transit.

Perhaps not, but teriyaki did and that is what I was responding to. He said that the "target demographic they are looking to attract wouldn't likely be using transit anyways", which I do not agree with. A customer is a customer.

My disagreement with you is with how you can use Bicester as an argument that transit ridership will be necessarily be poor, when that example is utterly irrelevant for reasons already explained. Just because both are "outlet malls" does not compensate for the fact that one is in the middle of farmland and one is inside a metro. Yes, that affects how people get there.

I don't think I said anything about people driving there. I'm sure it will be the primary mode, but the other modes matter also. Retail is a game of percentages and the trio of road connections, airport visitors, and quick and cheap transit access should translate to reasonable success. Take any one of those elements away and the chance of success is reduced.

craneSpotter
Sep 21, 2012, 7:04 PM
Massive YVR duty-free shop opens, sells $36k-a-bottle whisky

BIV - Nelson Bennett (link) (http://www.biv.com/article/20120921/BIV0119/120929988/massive-yvr-duty-free-shop-opens-sells-36k-a-bottle-whisky?utm_source=BIV+Daily&utm_campaign=49be36fd21-Daily_Friday_September_219_19_2012&utm_medium=email)
Fri Sep 21, 2012

http://www.biv.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=GV&Date=20120921&Category=BIV0119&ArtNo=120929988&Ref=AR&exactW=380

The first World Duty Free shop outside the U.K. has officially opened at Vancouver International Airport, where travellers can buy pricy French perfume, high-end cosmetics and 70-year-old whisky that sells for $35,888 a bottle.

Only four bottles of Generations Glenlivet whisky, a rare Scotch malt from 1940, are on sale at the new duty-free store, which specializes in luxury items.

“Welcoming North America’s first World Duty Free store and one of the world’s oldest whiskies to YVR are testaments to the strong partnerships in place here to create a successful retail program,” said Vancouver Airport Authority CEO Larry Berg.

Valley_Refugee
Sep 23, 2012, 8:44 PM
Philippine Airlines is shuffling its Vancouver services. The YVR-LAS tail is being cut off. It'll be 4 weekly MNL-YVR return + 3 weekly YVR-MNL flights originating from Toronto.

http://airlineroute.net/2012/09/23/pr-las-jan13cxld/

http://airlineroute.net/2012/09/23/pr-yyz-w12/

whatnext
Sep 24, 2012, 1:12 AM
Looks like they're clearing land now between Templeton Station and the Arthur Laing. Is that the hotel project?

osirisboy
Sep 24, 2012, 1:28 AM
hotel? i never heard of a hotel going there.

Zassk
Sep 24, 2012, 3:16 AM
Looks like they're clearing land now between Templeton Station and the Arthur Laing. Is that the hotel project?

Pretty sure that is the business park project.

Millennium2002
Sep 24, 2012, 10:54 AM
Where are the renders for that thing again... didn't they envision redoing some of the road network with that? Or has that changed?

trofirhen
Sep 24, 2012, 2:05 PM
Philippine Airlines is shuffling its Vancouver services. The YVR-LAS tail is being cut off. It'll be 4 weekly MNL-YVR return + 3 weekly YVR-MNL flights originating from Toronto.

http://airlineroute.net/2012/09/23/pr-las-jan13cxld/

http://airlineroute.net/2012/09/23/pr-yyz-w12/

I wonder if the lost capacity to LAS will be taken up by another airline (West Jet comes to mind, of course), or will that route be left as it will be - without the Philippine Airlines connection?

Valley_Refugee
Sep 24, 2012, 7:48 PM
^Probably WS will add a flight or two, depending on their load factors. PR had 5th freedom on the route, so there's at least some pax slack to pick up, presumably.

Valley_Refugee
Sep 27, 2012, 12:33 AM
Air Canada is moving YVR-San Diego service down to summer seasonal.

http://airlineroute.net/2012/09/26/ac-yvrsan-w12cxld/

Opening for WestJet?

whatnext
Sep 27, 2012, 5:51 AM
Air Canada is moving YVR-San Diego service down to summer seasonal.

http://airlineroute.net/2012/09/26/ac-yvrsan-w12cxld/

Opening for WestJet?

Strange. I would have thought there's enough snowbirds to keep them busy in winter.

sacrifice333
Sep 27, 2012, 11:22 PM
Air Canada is moving YVR-San Diego service down to summer seasonal.

http://airlineroute.net/2012/09/26/ac-yvrsan-w12cxld/

Opening for WestJet?

Hard to believe it failed... maybe something to do with the $1000 ticket price!:shrug:

trofirhen
Sep 27, 2012, 11:39 PM
Hard to believe it failed... maybe something to do with the $1000 ticket price!:shrug:
Wow!! I used to go there on and off a few years back, and the ticket price was reasonable; not a whole lot (but proportionally, of course)more than going to SF. (Hope that hasn't shot up, too)! Au fait ... isn't Westjet supposed to be sort of a "low cost" airline? cand could they not step in? Surely there's a market. WJ operates regular service from Calgary. Alors?

Valley_Refugee
Sep 29, 2012, 2:18 AM
WestJet only operates non-stop service from YYC-SAN in the summer season. In the off season, they codeshare with American from LAX.

SpongeG
Sep 29, 2012, 4:47 AM
maybe we can blame bellingham for the drop - they offer much cheaper service offered by Alaska and Allegient airlines

spaceprobe
Sep 29, 2012, 3:49 PM
maybe we can blame bellingham for the drop - they offer much cheaper service offered by Alaska and Allegient airlines

perhaps YVR should convince Alaska and Allegient to offer similarly priced (or marginally more expensive) flights from Vancouver

craneSpotter
Oct 2, 2012, 7:31 PM
maybe we can blame bellingham for the drop - they offer much cheaper service offered by Alaska and Allegient airlines

Many people we know in our area (YYJ) have used BLI or SEA to go to California, Mexico and Hawaii (for leisure) the past few years. Thats people from YYJ that used to fly via YYJ/YVR not too long ago.

We have saved big bucks when buying multiple tix ($3000 on 2 trips) flying out of Washington state this past year compared to the high fares charged by West Jet and AC out of YYJ/YVR. Those savings were net after ferry/Hotel/Gas costs. We actually enjoy the trip to BLI or SEA and have 4 ferry services to choose from for convenience (BC, Washington State, Black Ball and Victoria Clipper). As an added bonus, we can also load up our car with US goods before we cross the border and not have to worry about baggage weight ;)

We know quite a few who do so in the LM too. So it has to have an affect on YVR PAX numbers.

craneSpotter
Oct 2, 2012, 7:42 PM
Megaprojects set to create thriving mini-city at YVR
Emerging “aerotropolis” likely to attract manufacturer tenants seeking closer links with airport

BIV - Glen Korstrom (http://www.biv.com/article/20121002/BIV0111/310029932/megaprojects-set-to-create-thriving-mini-city-at-yvr?utm_source=BIV+Daily&utm_campaign=57b0bdeb42-Daily_Tuesday_October_2_201210_2_2012&utm_medium=email)
Tue Oct 2, 2012

Sea Island is evolving into a bustling mini-city thanks to several mega-developments and the global trend of companies promising speedier deliveries to customers and requiring the same from suppliers.

Vancouver International Airport Authority (YVR) executives are mulling four bids from architects to provide a vision for a business park with one million square feet of space on the northeast edge of Sea Island. They plan to announce the winning architectural firm this fall. YVR would then work with architects to develop a master plan for the park and determine whether to develop it alone or to take on a partner.

To the west of the business park will be the 700,000-square-foot mail-processing plant that Canada Post plans to occupy starting in 2014.

The business park will also be north of a 340,000-square-foot outlet mall that YVR and partner McArthurGlen Group are building on a 30-acre site, now being cleared, in the island's southeast corner.

"Vancouver's Sea Island is an emerging aerotropolis," said John Kasarda, who is a business professor at the University of North Carolina's Kenan-Flager Business School.

I like this term - Aerotropolis

Valley_Refugee
Oct 3, 2012, 5:41 AM
Air New Zealand is increasing service to Vancouver, up from 2 to 3 weekly over last year, in the first half of Northern Summer season (March-June 2013):

http://airlineroute.net/2012/10/03/nz-americas-s13update1/

whatnext
Oct 16, 2012, 12:31 AM
This article from today's Globe & Mail confuses me. Are they seriously contemplating moving the outlet mall site from Russ Baker Way to beside Templeton Station? Is that why they're clearing the land beside Templeton?

..<Richmond Mayor> Brodie said the mall, then proposed for a corner of the airport’s 1,340-hectare lands that was the closest to Richmond’s rapidly developing downtown, went against his city’s concept of trying to concentrate local retail into a town centre that was easily accessible by transit.

Since then, the airport and McArthurGlen have looked at shifting the mall location to a site next to a stop on the rapid-transit line that runs from the airport through Vancouver to downtown. Authority spokeswoman Rebecca Catley said that a significant proportion of the public wanted a mall that people could get to on the Canada Line. The first mall site would have required them either to drive or take a shuttle from a Canada Line stop...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/industry-news/property-report/luxury-brands-meet-the-layover-at-vancouver-international/article4613852/

dreambrother808
Oct 16, 2012, 12:43 AM
It seems like the all-around smarter option. Why not increase accessibility?

ACT7
Oct 16, 2012, 1:36 AM
I was confused by the millions of Asian visitors comment. Not according to Tourism Vancouver.

http://www.tourismvancouver.com/includes/content/images/media/docs/ytd_visitor_volume_2011.pdf

whatnext
Oct 16, 2012, 1:42 AM
It seems like the all-around smarter option. Why not increase accessibility?

It just struck me as odd they would go through all the design process for the original site, and then switch. Of course Templeton makes much more sense if they're trying to lure people in between flights, as they can just ride the C-line from the terminal and back for free.

officedweller
Oct 16, 2012, 2:22 AM
That would be awesome (and a lot more competitive) if they moved it over to Templeton Station.

officedweller
Oct 16, 2012, 2:28 AM
This article from today's Globe & Mail confuses me. Are they seriously contemplating moving the outlet mall site from Russ Baker Way to beside Templeton Station? Is that why they're clearing the land beside Templeton?


Offices and maybe a hotel are also planned for near Templeton - the retail would complement those uses.

Posted July 2011 - links now dead:

YVR is moving ahead with its office park at Templeton Station:

METRO VANCOUVER - The Vancouver Airport Authority plans to start construction next year on a $250-million business park and hotel on Sea Island next to the Canada Line's Templeton station.

The six-building business park will be constructed on a 13-hectare site adjacent to a new 2,500space park-and-ride facility for YVR employees and a Canada Post mail-processing plant that's slated to open in 2014.

"We see this as drawing the airport closer to the downtown business community," Raymond Segat, YVR's director, cargo and business development, said Tuesday about the project, called the Sea Island Business Park. "Our planning shows for 800,000 square feet of office space and a hotel of 250 rooms."

The airport authority is looking for expressions of interest from an architect to design the project, which would consist of buildings four to eight storeys in height and be built by about 2020.
...

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Business+park+hotel+planned+Island/5022131/story.html#ixzz1QtydQ8IY

See also:

http://media.bclocalnews.com/images/76503richmondseaislandbusinesspark3.jpg

By Matthew Hoekstra - Richmond Review
Published: June 24, 2011 1:00 PM
Updated: June 24, 2011 1:26 PM
A six-building business park and hotel is being planned by Vancouver International Airport Authority on Sea Island.

The airport authority issued a request for expressions of interest this week for a design team to plan what it dubs the Sea Island Business Park, which would be located on a 13-hectare (32-acre) airport-controlled site next to Canada Line’s Templeton Station.

The site is next to a newly-built 2,500-space park-and-ride facility for airport employees and near a planned 700,000-square-foot Canada Post mail processing plant that’s expected to open in 2014.

According to Raymond Segat, director cargo and business development for the airport authority, the Sea Island Business Park could bring 800,000 square feet of office space and 250 hotel rooms within two transit stops of the airport terminal.

“We see this as being a real change agent to bring the airport closer to the downtown business community, using the Canada Line as a connector to that,” said Segat.

Segat said any revenue from the project would go back into the airport and keep fees low for its carriers.

Aircraft noise won’t be an issue for the business park’s new tenants, according to Segat, adding the buildings will be constructed with a minimum gold LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) standard.

“The offices will be soundproof,” he said. “The site has unbelievable attractive views and positioning. You’re going to be able to see outside your window planes landing.”

The office towers would range from approximately four to eight storeys, cost $200 million to build and be phased in “over the next several years as dictated by market conditions and demand,” according to the proposal document.

Construction on the first buildings and hotel is expected to begin in 2012.

Although the site doesn’t offer a central employment base, being located next to an airport and rapid transit line would be an advantage to international companies, said Ron Bagan, managing director for the Colliers International in Vancouver.

“There is definite evidence in the suburban market that being right on or close to a station, that those projects have a much lower vacancy rate than projects that are not on rapid transit,” said Bagan, adding projects pending along Vancouver’s Cambie corridor could compete with the Sea Island site.

City hall’s role in the development is “quite limited,” said city spokesperson Ted Townsend, as the land is owned by the federal government and controlled by the airport authority through a long-term lease.

Coun. Harold Steves said it makes sense to locate businesses on Sea Island that require the airport’s services, adding new taxes from the new development would be welcomed by the city.

bils
Oct 16, 2012, 5:47 AM
drove by the site today (1pm).

for what it's worth...

still fenced off, but zero action at the site adjacent to BCIT.
lots of action at the templeton location.

Gordon
Oct 17, 2012, 2:19 PM
Does anyone have any updates on the Pier A\B Renos.

SpongeG
Oct 20, 2012, 5:46 PM
found this in the YEG thread, i didn't know either place had so many daily flights and they are getting one more

Vancouver-Fort St. John 5 daily (from 4 daily) 250 daily seats (from 200)
Vancouver-Nanaimo 7 daily (from 6 daily) 350 daily seats (from 300)

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1055049/air-canada-increases-flights-in-western-canada-deploys-new-q400-aircraft-this-winter

SpongeG
Oct 20, 2012, 5:47 PM
drove by the site today (1pm).

for what it's worth...

still fenced off, but zero action at the site adjacent to BCIT.
lots of action at the templeton location.

apparently they have decided to move the outlet mall to the templeton site instead of there - see the retail thread for info

Vanzunator
Oct 24, 2012, 4:40 AM
From Oct. 22nd Globe and Mail:

Air Canada’s strategy to branch out into discount international service to and from Vancouver has stalled after the airline suspended talks for a joint venture with Virgin Group Ltd. to launch Pacific flights.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/air-canada-suspends-talks-for-low-cost-pacific-carrier-over-timing-concerns/article4629844/

officedweller
Oct 25, 2012, 6:06 AM
BIV article on the business park near Templeton Station:

http://www.biv.com/article/20121002/BIV0111/310029932

and on the outlet mall:

http://www.biv.com/article/20121024/BIV0119/121029960/yvr-outlet-mall-likely-to-move-closer-to-canada-line?utm_source=BIV+Daily&utm_campaign=d3fff50c19-Daily_Wednesday_October_2410_23_2012&utm_medium=email

Valley_Refugee
Oct 26, 2012, 1:37 AM
I thought for sure this would be posted already, but looks like I'm the first one to do it!

Lufthansa is launching daily A330-300 summer seasonal service to Munich next year:

http://airlineroute.net/2012/10/26/lh-mucyvr-s13/

deasine
Oct 26, 2012, 3:15 AM
From Oct. 22nd Globe and Mail:

Air Canada’s strategy to branch out into discount international service to and from Vancouver has stalled after the airline suspended talks for a joint venture with Virgin Group Ltd. to launch Pacific flights.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/air-canada-suspends-talks-for-low-cost-pacific-carrier-over-timing-concerns/article4629844/

While it would be nice to see another carrier based in Vancouver, especially Virgin, the plan to have Air Canada own one doesn't seem to make sense when their Pacific routes are helping the airline make money. It's the European routes that are facing a lot of stiff competition and running into problems.

twoNeurons
Oct 26, 2012, 6:05 AM
While it would be nice to see another carrier based in Vancouver, especially Virgin, the plan to have Air Canada own one doesn't seem to make sense when their Pacific routes are helping the airline make money. It's the European routes that are facing a lot of stiff competition and running into problems.

They see the future. There are a lot of Chinese and Korean lines that undercut Air Canada on price. Their low-cost venture was an effort to gain more market share in the lower end. Their pacific business product is pretty good in, but often business travellers will travel JAL or Cathay to Asia.

I really don't see heavy cannibalization of their routes by opening up a low-cost alternative. Rather, I see a way to piggy-back off their brand equity and capture a larger share of the market. If you could fly a Chinese airline or Air Canada Lite for the same price, who would you chose?

Valley_Refugee
Oct 26, 2012, 6:58 AM
YVR traffic up 2.8% year-over-year in September:

http://centreforaviation.com/news/vancouver-international-airport-pax-up-3-cargo-up-2-in-sep-2012-183337

Johnny Aussie
Oct 26, 2012, 10:18 AM
I thought for sure this would be posted already, but looks like I'm the first one to do it!

Lufthansa is launching daily A330-300 summer seasonal service to Munich next year:

http://airlineroute.net/2012/10/26/lh-mucyvr-s13/

Been out of action for awhile (in the air more than on the ground) and seemed to have missed a lot over the last few weeks.

This caught me way off guard. I knew LH was looking at adding more YVR capacity, but was not expecting a new route.

Lufthansa's press release is here....

http://presse.lufthansa.com/en/news-releases/singleview/archive/2012/october/26/article/2246.html

Hourglass
Oct 26, 2012, 2:19 PM
^
Actually not completely new. IIRC, LH did Munich-YVR on a seasonal basis several years ago, I think 3x/weekly. Let's hope there's enough demand to see it go year-round. Munich is a much more pleasant airport to transit than FRA...

ACT7
Oct 26, 2012, 2:54 PM
From Oct. 22nd Globe and Mail:

Air Canada’s strategy to branch out into discount international service to and from Vancouver has stalled after the airline suspended talks for a joint venture with Virgin Group Ltd. to launch Pacific flights.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/air-canada-suspends-talks-for-low-cost-pacific-carrier-over-timing-concerns/article4629844/
Interesting that AC has mentioned this in the past that they have been having a hard time establishing strong growth out of YVR.

Cage
Oct 26, 2012, 3:24 PM
Interesting that AC has mentioned this in the past that they have been having a hard time establishing strong growth out of YVR.

Here's a quote from BNen Smith, EVP at AC that explains some of the problems that AC has at YVR:

Prior to adding nonstop YYZ-PEK/PVG/HKG/NRT year-round daily we routed most of our YYZ-Asia customers via YVR. This traffic made up a significant portion of each YVR-Pacific flight. With the introduction of YYZ-Asia nonstops we've maintained our YVR-Asia capacity without the full support of the YYZ market.

source: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/1119422-why-no-yvr-fra-flight-operated-ac.html

Gordon
Oct 26, 2012, 4:22 PM
Another reason that AC has trouble establishing strong growth from YVR is the extensive competition from Asian carriers from YVR . our smaller population probably doesn't help.

A more competitive cost structure may help YVR attract more Pacific North west traffic.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 26, 2012, 6:36 PM
^
Actually not completely new. IIRC, LH did Munich-YVR on a seasonal basis several years ago, I think 3x/weekly. Let's hope there's enough demand to see it go year-round. Munich is a much more pleasant airport to transit than FRA...

Correct. Definitely had flights in the past... long time ago. Funny how the article specifically says "for the first time."

In any event, good news for YVR. 221 seater A333 seems like a good size but premium may be a bit high with 8F and 48J.

No press release on YVR website yet... they never seem to jump on new service announcements with any sort of passion. Trying to think the last time a new international route was launched daily. The last few: Sichuan, Virgin Atlantic and China Southern all launched less than daily.

ACT7
Oct 26, 2012, 8:50 PM
Here's a quote from BNen Smith, EVP at AC that explains some of the problems that AC has at YVR:



source: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/1119422-why-no-yvr-fra-flight-operated-ac.html
Don't get me wrong, maintaining is good, but stagnating growth can turn into decline when there's a new entrant. Interestingly, the past two months, Asia-Pacific traffic at YVR has either declined or stalled out. The new entrants are doing just what was said - stealing market share without growing the market. Not that that's a bad thing necessarily for them, just for AC.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 26, 2012, 11:14 PM
Just looking at some of the Sept stats - Europe (scheduled) up over 13% yoy.

LH looking to grab some of that action.

Interestingly, it looked like YYC was on a roll gaining more flights to Europe and seemed like almost as many as YVR but what a reversal in the last year. Edelweiss won't be returning to YYC next summer, while maintaining YVR. Virgin Atlantic commenced YVR this year. And then LH pulls out of YYC this year only to add another daily to YVR next year. KLM the exception, going to daily in YYC. KLM also added capacity to YVR with the larger 777.

As for Asia - look for a bit of additional flying next summer.

YYCguys
Nov 3, 2012, 3:22 PM
Does anyone have any updates on the Pier A\B Renos.

No, but I would love to know too.

What I do know is that Gate A1 has been removed and replaced with a new location for the Plaza Premium Lounge. So what is to become of the old location, I am unsure. And where will A1 be located now?

Also, bits and pieces of the B side has hoarding up, but again, I am unsure of what is happening there.

trofirhen
Nov 3, 2012, 8:10 PM
^
Actually not completely new. IIRC, LH did Munich-YVR on a seasonal basis several years ago, I think 3x/weekly. Let's hope there's enough demand to see it go year-round. Munich is a much more pleasant airport to transit than FRA...
:previous:

I think perhaps Munich might serve well as the transfer point to the Eastern European market (Russia and so forth), of which Vancouver seems to have a potential market for, as many Eastern Europeans >>>(with air markets like Prague, Moscow, Kiev, Zagreb, Budapest) >>> have roots here and connections here. So is there a market, first question.

If anyone is willing to venture an answer to this second question ... would this route provide enough Business Class passengers for Lufthansa YVR - Munich? Someone once said that business class is the bread and butter of airlines. If enough Businness Class pax were projected year round, would this not easily become a year round sched.- service?