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Gordon
Dec 3, 2012, 3:40 PM
Delta is starting Sea - hND service in 2013 so connections for Delta & Skyteam don't seem be a problem.

twoNeurons
Dec 4, 2012, 12:06 AM
Delta is starting Sea - hND service in 2013 so connections for Delta & Skyteam don't seem be a problem.

If you're ending in Tokyo, the SEA-HND isn't a problem. The service was better for business travellers who could arrive in Haneda after 10PM, sleep in an airport hotel, go to their business meeting the next day then take the evening flight from HND out. They are restricted to only take off and land from 10PM to 7AM.

If you're transferring from HND to somewhere else in Asia, there were very few choices for flights at that time of the night.

Japan is trying to make HND a 24-hour airport to compete with ICN. Given some time, YVR-HND might make sense.

Right now, with those strict landing slots, any North American flight to HND favors the Japanese traveller and Japanese airlines... as well as O/D traffic, as this commercial adequately points out:
1rsvLBdNZYM

deasine
Dec 4, 2012, 12:11 AM
Delta is starting Sea - hND service in 2013 so connections for Delta & Skyteam don't seem be a problem.

Of all airlines, DL is least likely to have fifth freedom traffic connections at HND as it does not have a partner Japanese carrier. So if they are able to generate enough demand for their flights, this is because there is enough O&D traffic. And it won't be entirely surprising given that DL has also upgraded its SEA-NRT route, and that DL has been working ever closely with partner AS at SEA.

AA, on the other hand, has struggled quite a bit. While they currently operate a 777 daily to HND from JFK, this wasn't without some temporary cancellations. But again, fifth freedom traffic is also limited given the flight is scheduled to arrive at 2215 local time, and departs at 0615. That being said, JFK does have a market to support direct O&D traffic unlike YVR.

Valley_Refugee
Dec 6, 2012, 1:36 AM
Air New Zealand is further boosting capacity to YVR this coming summer 2013 season:

http://airlineroute.net/2012/12/05/nz-americas-s13update3/

Gordon
Dec 6, 2012, 2:02 AM
That's good news. the article doesn't mention the type of plane but I suspect it would be a777

Valley_Refugee
Dec 6, 2012, 6:54 AM
I think that's the only plane Air New Zealand has that can make the distance.

deasine
Dec 6, 2012, 8:33 AM
I think that's the only plane Air New Zealand has that can make the distance.

We've had 747s up here before.

trofirhen
Dec 6, 2012, 1:08 PM
Air New Zealand is further boosting capacity to YVR this coming summer 2013 season:

http://airlineroute.net/2012/12/05/nz-americas-s13update3/

Nice to see an increase in NZ traffic......

Just an idea, but wouldnt' it be nifty if YVR became sort of a "mini-hub" for Oceania (yes I know MEL and FIJ were tried and dropped, but there might still be potential elsewhere)

A number of people have connections in Perth and Adelaide (with Melbourne traffic connecting mostly at Sydney) but only SYD as the Australian market gateway.

Regarding Perth and Adelaide traffic, Brisbane provides a more direct route to Perth and Adelaide, and if you do some figuring on the adjoining Wikipedia chart, it might be as or more lucrative a route than Melbourne; then again, maybe not. The experts can figure that one out.

But I heard Seattle talking about Brisbane a while back, and they might still be going to try for it. Be a shame if the beat us to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_Australia

usog
Dec 6, 2012, 6:35 PM
I noticed that they've moved the daily flight to PEK to a late night departure and made the usual time 4x a week for the summer, why would they do that?

st7860
Dec 6, 2012, 6:39 PM
I noticed that they've moved the daily flight to PEK to a late night departure and made the usual time 4x a week for the summer, why would they do that?

I read somewhere a few weeks ago that Air Canada is boosting flights to China next year and moving the times around etc.

usog
Dec 6, 2012, 7:02 PM
I read somewhere a few weeks ago that Air Canada is boosting flights to China next year and moving the times around etc.

Yeah but I don't understand making the late night time the daily flight, I don't think Beijing is quite the destination where such a flight would be convenient.

casper
Dec 7, 2012, 3:17 PM
Yeah but I don't understand making the late night time the daily flight, I don't think Beijing is quite the destination where such a flight would be convenient.

The changes are "including a new late night flight timed to be convenient for business travellers".

The orginal press release is at:

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=601

Sounds like four extra Beijing flights from Vancouver. Extra flights to Asia from Calgary and Toronto.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 12, 2012, 6:30 AM
Just reading some rumblings on airliners.net

Apparently China's equivalent of Twitter has China Eastern mentioning that they are going to "extend their YVR flights to JFK."

Is this actually going to happen?
Are these proposed flights going to replace the non-stop PVG-JFK flights?
Frequency?
Proposed start-date?

Don't know... usually I don't bother posting anything unless it is "real," however, I thought at least this is a discussion point as the source is the airline itself.

So IF this comes to fruition... next summer YVR will have AC, UA, CX, the new DL service and now MU on YVR-NYC routes.

Interestingly to note, this was actually proposed in 2007 but it never happened.

Jebby
Dec 12, 2012, 10:04 PM
I think that's the only plane Air New Zealand has that can make the distance.

It's just over 7000 miles travel distance, which puts it just inside the range for a 747-400 which they are retiring from their fleet in 2015. It's within the range of their 777-200ER and -300ER planes and very comfortably fit in the range of the 787-9s their going to start getting in 2015 to replace their 747s.

Valley_Refugee
Dec 13, 2012, 1:33 AM
Okay, I stand corrected twice now.

deasine
Dec 14, 2012, 10:28 PM
Just reading some rumblings on airliners.net

Apparently China's equivalent of Twitter has China Eastern mentioning that they are going to "extend their YVR flights to JFK."

Is this actually going to happen?
Are these proposed flights going to replace the non-stop PVG-JFK flights?
Frequency?
Proposed start-date?

Don't know... usually I don't bother posting anything unless it is "real," however, I thought at least this is a discussion point as the source is the airline itself.

So IF this comes to fruition... next summer YVR will have AC, UA, CX, the new DL service and now MU on YVR-NYC routes.

Interestingly to note, this was actually proposed in 2007 but it never happened.

Did you have a link to the Weibo post?

Hourglass
Dec 18, 2012, 5:03 AM
Interesting article in the Sydney Morning Herald:

Air Canada Keen to Land in Melbourne (http://http://www.smh.com.au/business/air-canada-keen-to-land-in-melbourne-20121218-2bkpi.html)

Assuming this would be from YVR unless they tried to route via LAX or HNL to YYZ. No chance of starting anything earlier than 2015 before the 787s arrive though. :(

Johnny Aussie
Dec 18, 2012, 9:37 AM
Interesting article in the Sydney Morning Herald:

Air Canada Keen to Land in Melbourne (http://http://www.smh.com.au/business/air-canada-keen-to-land-in-melbourne-20121218-2bkpi.html)

Assuming this would be from YVR unless they tried to route via LAX or HNL to YYZ. No chance of starting anything earlier than 2015 before the 787s arrive though. :(

This of course is my number 1 dream route. Perhaps move the 3 additional SYD -YVR flights to MEL.
I will be on the SYD-YVR flight soon! Still the best way to get to Vancouver but nonstop from MEL would be ideal :)

trofirhen
Dec 18, 2012, 10:30 AM
This of course is my number 1 dream route. Perhaps move the 3 additional SYD -YVR flights to MEL.
I will be on the SYD-YVR flight soon! Still the best way to get to Vancouver but nonstop from MEL would be ideal :)
With Melbourne booming the way it is, with predictions that in 25 years it may once again Australia's largest city, this is not an impossibility.
I'd like to see flights to Brisbane, too; the Gold Coast, plus shorter connections to Perth and Adelaide. (... well .... you gotta be optimistic...);)

tayser
Dec 18, 2012, 9:40 PM
AC should hurry the hell up and source 2 more 77L from somewhere and just start sooner, 2015 is too long, and Qantas are as useless as tits on a bull........... cmon Air Canuckistan, we're waiting! :D

YYZ-YVR-SYD-YVR-YYZ (current) & YUL-YVR-MEL-YVR-YUL (new) timed to depart about 30 min earlier in MEL and 30min earlier in YUL would make for a very good scissor hub for anyone in Melbourne/Sydney wanting to fly to Vancouver/Toronto/Montreal and vice versa.

With Melbourne booming the way it is, with predictions that in 25 years it may once again Australia's largest city, this is not an impossibility.
I'd like to see flights to Brisbane, too; the Gold Coast, plus shorter connections to Perth and Adelaide. (... well .... you gotta be optimistic...)

AU-CA bilateral as it stands only allows 2 ports in each other's country with stops in HNL, NAN, PPT or SFO - this will need to be changed if a 3rd AU port for Canadian-flagged airlines were to eventuate (it's on the cards, but as it stands AC could only choose MEL or BNE under the current arrangement, not both).

trofirhen
Dec 18, 2012, 10:26 PM
AC should hurry the hell up and source 2 more 77L from somewhere and just start sooner, 2015 is too long, and Qantas are as useless as tits on a bull........... cmon Air Canuckistan, we're waiting! :D

YYZ-YVR-SYD-YVR-YYZ (current) & YUL-YVR-MEL-YVR-YUL (new) timed to depart about 30 min earlier in MEL and 30min earlier in YUL would make for a very good scissor hub for anyone in Melbourne/Sydney wanting to fly to Vancouver/Toronto/Montreal and vice versa.



AU-CA bilateral as it stands only allows 2 ports in each other's country with stops in HNL, NAN, PPT or SFO - this will need to be changed if a 3rd AU port for Canadian-flagged airlines were to eventuate (it's on the cards, but as it stands AC could only choose MEL or BNE under the current arrangement, not both).
Could a new AUS - CAN bilateral be negotiated? I'd LOVE to see YVR as a major jumping-off point, not only for Asia, but for the whole Pacific region, including Oceania.

tayser
Dec 18, 2012, 11:19 PM
Yeah it can be - somewhat easily... we have open-skies with the US, an integrated agreement with NZ which sees AU-NZ operate like a mini-EU (Qantas can fly domestic routes in NZ and AirNZ in Australia, as well as QF originate services in NZ and fly internationally not via AU and vice versa with Air NZ in Australia), open-skies with Singapore, Hong Kong etc.

I think the Canadian Gov wanted to restart talks a few years ago but wasnt much movement from Au government cos QF were in their ears - like always - they make money by flying 380s to LAX then farming people off onto Alaskan flights to YVR, AA flights to YYZ and via Chicago to YOW/YUL and they dont have the planes to do non-stop journies to YVR cos they're a bunch of silly billies for not buying the 777 variants that would have been cheaper to run than their fleet on 747s.

Vancouver's not going to be all that competitive for AU-US traffic (i.e AC MEL/SYD-YVR-NYC/CHI etc) as QF, AA, DL and VA all fly via LAX which is the shortest path, but for Eastern Canada: absolutely, you get to bypass US customs on the whole journey which will be a big plus.

However, I dare say YVR would be just like LAX - 50% of all Australians dont make it beyond the west coast of the USA (Vegas about as far inland as they go) and I dare say it'd be the same in Canada with Vancouver (Banff/Jasper/maybe Calgary etc) - "Whistler Express" etc etc.

trofirhen
Dec 19, 2012, 4:23 AM
Yeah it can be - somewhat easily... we have open-skies with the US, an integrated agreement with NZ which sees AU-NZ operate like a mini-EU (Qantas can fly domestic routes in NZ and AirNZ in Australia, as well as QF originate services in NZ and fly internationally not via AU and vice versa with Air NZ in Australia), open-skies with Singapore, Hong Kong etc.

I think the Canadian Gov wanted to restart talks a few years ago but wasnt much movement from Au government cos QF were in their ears - like always - they make money by flying 380s to LAX then farming people off onto Alaskan flights to YVR, AA flights to YYZ and via Chicago to YOW/YUL and they dont have the planes to do non-stop journies to YVR cos they're a bunch of silly billies for not buying the 777 variants that would have been cheaper to run than their fleet on 747s.

Vancouver's not going to be all that competitive for AU-US traffic (i.e AC MEL/SYD-YVR-NYC/CHI etc) as QF, AA, DL and VA all fly via LAX which is the shortest path, but for Eastern Canada: absolutely, you get to bypass US customs on the whole journey which will be a big plus.

However, I dare say YVR would be just like LAX - 50% of all Australians dont make it beyond the west coast of the USA (Vegas about as far inland as they go) and I dare say it'd be the same in Canada with Vancouver (Banff/Jasper/maybe Calgary etc) - "Whistler Express" etc etc.
^^^^^^^^^^
Good news, interesting news. Thanks.
Do you think that an ensemble of flights from Vancouver to Sydney, Melbourne, and Brisbane is eventually possible? I'd love to see YVR extend its market footprint, and this is one part of the world where we may have an edge. I'd be interested in hearing your views on this. :)

trofirhen
Dec 19, 2012, 5:29 PM
Air Canada's new low-cost overseas airline will apparently be called "Air Canada Rouge."
Appropriate enough, I guess, (maple leaves and all that) but still ...........

metroXpress
Dec 19, 2012, 5:57 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/15516_462522113785588_700206759_n.jpg

YVR added this on their Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/VancouverInternationalAirport) today.

s211
Dec 19, 2012, 6:38 PM
It's SNOWMAGEDDON !!!

tayser
Dec 19, 2012, 10:52 PM
^^^^^^^^^^
Good news, interesting news. Thanks.
Do you think that an ensemble of flights from Vancouver to Sydney, Melbourne, and Brisbane is eventually possible? I'd love to see YVR extend its market footprint, and this is one part of the world where we may have an edge. I'd be interested in hearing your views on this. :)

10 years, probably.

Canadian passports presented at passport control at Tullamarine (MEL) keep rising y/y and they're either flying on a US or AU airline via SFO/LAX, via AKL on NZ or via SYD on AC's service - that's the market that will be gobbled up when/if a non-stop service starts.

Brisbane would be more of an expensive snowbird destination for Canadians, although there'd definitely be a fair amount of people who wanted to head to the Rockies from this end.

Melbourne would have double the amount of high-yielding passengers than Brisbane (whether they're bound for Vancouver, who knows - probably more Toronto) and it would be much easier to fill business class if Melbourne were started first.

If the bilateral were changed, Brisbane would be a prime candidate for the AC Rouge brand and AC mainline to Melbourne as well as the current Sydney service. AC's 767-300ERs that are going to AC Rouge are just beyond the range of YVR-BNE (6300nm as opposed to a 5900nm range on the plane) and would require a stop in HNL/NAN - might work for a "leisure" carrier, but it would be shunned for mainline (AC mainline used to do YVR-HNL-SYD and for a while they did YVR-HNL-MEL with 767-300ERs just before Sept. 11th, dropped soon after - 77Ls/77Ws allowed them to remove HNL and just fly direct).

Starting Melbourne 3x a week non-stop would be a good start: it only requires one 77L (or 789) - dep YVR Tues Thur, Sat, dep MEL Mon, Wed, Fri etc - it won't cannibalise the yields on the YVR-SYD flight as much if they started daily and allows them to exploit a market that needs to grow as flights are ramped up to daily.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 19, 2012, 11:34 PM
^^ what a coincidence... that photo would have been taken just minutes before I arrived (2 1/2 hours late) on AC34 from SYD this morning... a bit of a winter wonderland welcome!
We had to hold another couple of minutes for the Sunwing plane to get out of the way after its pushback. Another awesome flight on the 77L. Even with the extra 2 1/2 hours on the plane... Being in AC's Exec First made the 17 hours on it bearable. The delay occurred after we pushed out of SYD and had to go back to the gate.

^ if I recall correctly, AC flights to MEL were routed YYZ-HNL-YVR.

trofirhen
Dec 20, 2012, 12:49 AM
10 years, probably.

Canadian passports presented at passport control at Tullamarine (MEL) keep rising y/y and they're either flying on a US or AU airline via SFO/LAX, via AKL on NZ or via SYD on AC's service - that's the market that will be gobbled up when/if a non-stop service starts.

Brisbane would be more of an expensive snowbird destination for Canadians, although there'd definitely be a fair amount of people who wanted to head to the Rockies from this end.

Melbourne would have double the amount of high-yielding passengers than Brisbane (whether they're bound for Vancouver, who knows - probably more Toronto) and it would be much easier to fill business class if Melbourne were started first.

If the bilateral were changed, Brisbane would be a prime candidate for the AC Rouge brand and AC mainline to Melbourne as well as the current Sydney service. AC's 767-300ERs that are going to AC Rouge are just beyond the range of YVR-BNE (6300nm as opposed to a 5900nm range on the plane) and would require a stop in HNL/NAN - might work for a "leisure" carrier, but it would be shunned for mainline (AC mainline used to do YVR-HNL-SYD and for a while they did YVR-HNL-MEL with 767-300ERs just before Sept. 11th, dropped soon after - 77Ls/77Ws allowed them to remove HNL and just fly direct).

Starting Melbourne 3x a week non-stop would be a good start: it only requires one 77L (or 789) - dep YVR Tues Thur, Sat, dep MEL Mon, Wed, Fri etc - it won't cannibalise the yields on the YVR-SYD flight as much if they started daily and allows them to exploit a market that needs to grow as flights are ramped up to daily.

Wow! That might put us on the road to a mini-Oceana to NA hub. At present, Seattle has no scheduled flights down under at all. We've been apparently losing passengers (cheaper flights) and airlines(i.e. Emirates) to SEA, and that has to be countered, a little bit, wherever possible.

hollywoodnorth
Dec 20, 2012, 1:27 AM
Air Canada's new low-cost overseas airline will apparently be called "Air Canada Rouge."
Appropriate enough, I guess, (maple leaves and all that) but still ...........

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/12/18/air-canada-rouge-discount.html

Johnny Aussie
Dec 23, 2012, 4:09 AM
Flew into YVR from LAS this morning and read this little bit of news.

Shortly after AC announced it is boosting Beijing flights...

Air China is also boosting YVR-PEK to 11 weekly up from 7 last summer.

http://airlineroute.net/2012/12/22/ca-s13update1/

So both AC and CA will be operating 11 weekly flights on the PEK route next summer.

Had an amazing view of all the snow capped mountains landing on 26R this morning.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 26, 2012, 4:25 AM
Compared to summer 2012, next summer Condor is increasing YVR from 3 weekly to 4 weekly and YYC from 2 weekly to 3 weekly (during the peak July - August period).

YVR to operate Mon, Wed, Sat and Sun
YYC to operate Tue, Thu and Fri

cornholio
Dec 26, 2012, 9:34 AM
Compared to summer 2012, next summer Condor is increasing YVR from 3 weekly to 4 weekly and YYC from 2 weekly to 3 weekly (during the peak July - August period).

YVR to operate Mon, Wed, Sat and Sun
YYC to operate Tue, Thu and Fri

Nice. Condor is a great cheap airline for people trying to save a few bucks. Used them twice last year, Recife to Frankfurt and Frankfurt to Vegas. I could not resist the cheap fares they offered and at the end of the day I cant think of any complaints.

trofirhen
Dec 26, 2012, 9:10 PM
Nice. Condor is a great cheap airline for people trying to save a few bucks. Used them twice last year, Recife to Frankfurt and Frankfurt to Vegas. I could not resist the cheap fares they offered and at the end of the day I cant think of any complaints.
Where will they fly to? Not Düsseldorf? I thought that had been discontinued.

trofirhen
Dec 26, 2012, 9:19 PM
When this comes to fruition, what will it mean for YVR? This reprsents a huge market of 42m. Would there be flights mostly to Guanghzhou (formerly Canton, if I'm not mistaken...)

Or would there be enough market demand in other cities to justify other routes within this region to YVR?

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01810/China-Super-City_1810271b.gif

Jebby
Dec 26, 2012, 10:09 PM
Where will they fly to? Not Düsseldorf? I thought that had been discontinued.

Seasonal flight to Frankfurt am Main.

deasine
Dec 27, 2012, 4:23 AM
When this comes to fruition, what will it mean for YVR? This reprsents a huge market of 42m. Would there be flights mostly to Guanghzhou (formerly Canton, if I'm not mistaken...)

Or would there be enough market demand in other cities to justify other routes within this region to YVR?

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01810/China-Super-City_1810271b.gif

We already have flights to CAN... served 5 weekly by CZ. Wouldn't be surprised if this becomes upgraded to daily by next year. I know there was previous discussion of CZ wanting to also compete with CA/AC on the PEK-YVR route but according to CAAC, only one mainland carrier can operate an international route (with exceptions made to the flag carrier CA as one of the directors of CAAC is a former CA director).

Hourglass
Dec 27, 2012, 6:19 AM
When this comes to fruition, what will it mean for YVR? This reprsents a huge market of 42m. Would there be flights mostly to Guanghzhou (formerly Canton, if I'm not mistaken...)

Or would there be enough market demand in other cities to justify other routes within this region to YVR?

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01810/China-Super-City_1810271b.gif

Actually, the Guangdong provincial government subsequently denied this report. See below link:

http://english.cntv.cn/20110130/103387.shtml

I suppose it doesn't really change the fact that there is a huge catchment area, but as deasine says, CAN-YVR is already served by CZ. AC was making noise about starting this route too, although it's since gone quiet.

Note that HKG also draws a lot of passengers (I always see many Mainland Chinese connecting on CX) as there are ferry services from Shenzhen directly to the airport and they can skip Hong Kong immigration procedures since they arrive airside. Also IIRC there are a lot of bus services from various points in Guangdong to HKIA

Valley_Refugee
Dec 29, 2012, 5:00 AM
November PAX up 3.8% YOY

http://centreforaviation.com/news/vancouver-international-airport-pax-up-4-cargo-stable-in-nov-2012-196511

Johnny Aussie
Jan 10, 2013, 12:34 PM
As expected, China Southern will increase YVR-CAN to daily from 17 June.

http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/10/cz-yvr-s13/

Now just waiting to see what China Eastern does.

craneSpotter
Jan 10, 2013, 6:29 PM
However, I dare say YVR would be just like LAX - 50% of all Australians dont make it beyond the west coast of the USA (Vegas about as far inland as they go) and I dare say it'd be the same in Canada with Vancouver (Banff/Jasper/maybe Calgary etc) - "Whistler Express" etc etc.

You are correct re: YVR - about 45-50% of Australian visits to Canada are to BC (YVR - Whistler mostly). But they appear to wander farther east here - The next largest destination for Aussies in Canada after BC is Ontario with about 20% of the overnight visits.

http://en-corporate.canada.travel

trofirhen
Jan 11, 2013, 10:57 PM
You are correct re: YVR - about 45-50% of Australian visits to Canada are to BC (YVR - Whistler mostly). But they appear to wander farther east here - The next largest destination for Aussies in Canada after BC is Ontario with about 20% of the overnight visits.

http://en-corporate.canada.travel

Does this have any positive (or negative) implications for the possibility of a new scheduled YVR - MEL route? That's something I'd love to see.

deasine
Jan 13, 2013, 1:55 AM
Construction seems to be occurring at Pier B-Domestic and there's already a temporary walkway constructed to access the Pier B gates.

---

On a different note, here's a picture I had the opportunity of taking today from the Control Tower.

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/l5xxnmsawmxmi2a/airport.jpg

hollywoodnorth
Jan 13, 2013, 2:30 AM
wow the Canada Post faculty looks massive! thanks for the pic!

it makes the UPS faculty look like a fire station in size >> http://goo.gl/maps/Dfiva

officedweller
Jan 14, 2013, 10:27 PM
Compared to the Google map, it looks like they closed a road for the Canada Post building.

cyeg66
Jan 16, 2013, 8:20 PM
wow the Canada Post faculty looks massive!

Yes, quite the large building indeed. Your tax dollars hardly...er...I mean, hard at work. Of course, their union(s) plays a large part in its (non) productivity.

craneSpotter
Jan 16, 2013, 11:44 PM
Does this have any positive (or negative) implications for the possibility of a new scheduled YVR - MEL route? That's something I'd love to see.

Well, not an expert at city pairing by airlines, but there would be a few things about the traffic between Canada and Australia that would factor in with regard to a scheduled link between YVR-MEL:

1) The traffic is somewhat seasonal - not spread out evenly.
2) The traffic is 60% leisure. (lower yield?)
3) The traffic volume can vary quite a bit from year to year.

Maybe somebody would try a seasonal charter first?

Johnny Aussie
Jan 16, 2013, 11:54 PM
Wow.

China Eastern is the latest Chinese airline to boost services to YVR.

Summer 2013, MU will have 13 weekly YVR-PVG up from 11 last summer.

They are adding a daily except Sunday flight departing YVR at 0130 starting mid June.

With this latest increase YVR-China this upcoming summer will see a significant boost to capacity!

MU - 13 weekly (up from 11)
CA - 11 weekly (up from 7)
CZ - 7 weekly (up from 5)
3U - 3 weekly (same - for now)
AC - 18 weekly (up from 14)

Total - 52 weekly (up from 40)

Valley_Refugee
Jan 18, 2013, 12:34 PM
Johnny_Aussie, I'm entirely too lazy to do a full comparison, but by my count YVR has the most carriers serving mainland China routes (MU, CA, CZ, 3U, AC) , tied with LAX at least (CA, AA, CZ, UA, MU). Most mainland China carriers for sure (4). Most frequencies I didn't take a stab at, but I imagine it can't be lower than (and probably exceeds) all but LAX and maybe SFO.

whatnext
Jan 18, 2013, 7:51 PM
There's a billboard up on Cessna advertising a new two story office/warehouse building, going between BCIT and the old Canadian Airlines building I guess. Not the easiest site to access with large trucks.

deasine
Jan 18, 2013, 9:34 PM
Johnny_Aussie, I'm entirely too lazy to do a full comparison, but by my count YVR has the most carriers serving mainland China routes (MU, CA, CZ, 3U, AC) , tied with LAX at least (CA, AA, CZ, UA, MU). Most mainland China carriers for sure (4). Most frequencies I didn't take a stab at, but I imagine it can't be lower than (and probably exceeds) all but LAX and maybe SFO.

It'd be interesting to compare the available capacities to China between these cities and Vancouvers. I'd imagine we get a pretty different picture after that.

teriyaki
Jan 19, 2013, 3:10 AM
It'd be interesting to compare the available capacities to China between these cities and Vancouvers. I'd imagine we get a pretty different picture after that.

I find it pretty impressive to see that we have 4 Chinese airlines serving our humble little "focus city".

With LAX seeing daily 747's and A380's vs our 777's and A330s for most of their Trans-pacific routes. Even at a 1:1 ratio of flights in and out of both cities, correct me if i'm mistaken but I think we'd see a pretty substantial difference between the actual SEAT capacity.

trofirhen
Jan 19, 2013, 11:21 AM
I find it pretty impressive to see that we have 4 Chinese airlines serving our humble little "focus city".

With LAX seeing daily 747's and A380's vs our 777's and A330s for most of their Trans-pacific routes. Even at a 1:1 ratio of flights in and out of both cities, correct me if i'm mistaken but I think we'd see a pretty substantial difference between the actual SEAT capacity.
Very true, but when you compare the population of Metro Vancouver from Lion's Bay to Chilliwack, at 2.3m and the population of the LA Basin at upwards of 18m, I'd say we're doing pretty well.
Now, if we could get Singapore back as a destination, and maybe Bangkok ......:rolleyes: .....

Johnny Aussie
Jan 21, 2013, 8:38 PM
Looks like AC won't be reinstating SAN for the summer scheds after all. It was pulled for the winter to operate on a seasonal basis.

On a positive note, YMM will be going double daily and YXS going to 7 daily.

edit: and YYF going to 4 daily.

trofirhen
Jan 21, 2013, 9:51 PM
Looks like AC won't be reinstating SAN for the summer scheds after all. It was pulled for the winter to operate on a seasonal basis.

On a positive note, YMM will be going double daily and YXS going to 7 daily.
Will any airline filll the YVR -SAN void left by AC? Seems like an opportunity for Westjet

Johnny Aussie
Jan 22, 2013, 9:56 AM
For peak summer 2013 schedules KE is upgauging the daily YVR-ICN flight to a 744.

That's a pretty decent increase in capacity.

http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/22/ke-s13update2/

Canadian74
Jan 22, 2013, 4:02 PM
2013 will be a very good year for YVR, no? With all the Asia increases, AKL increase and the new MUC flight.

Anyone want to make a complete list of all Asian cities served from YVR with frequencies and aircraft compared with last summer?
I am not familiar with aircraft and frequencies...

PEK - Air Canada/Air China
PVG - Air Canada/China Eastern
CAN - China Southern
CTU - Sichuan Airlines
HKG - Air Canada/Cathay Pacific
TPE - EVA Air/China Airlines
NRT - Air Canada/Japan Airlines
ICN - Air Canada/Korean Air
MNL - Philippine Airlines

Did I miss anything?
Would personally like a DEL flight!

Johnny Aussie
Jan 24, 2013, 7:53 AM
Looks like AC won't be reinstating SAN for the summer scheds after all. It was pulled for the winter to operate on a seasonal basis.

On a positive note, YMM will be going double daily and YXS going to 7 daily.

edit: and YYF going to 4 daily.

AND YYD goes to 3 daily from 2... How could I have forgotten Smithers!

Johnny Aussie
Jan 24, 2013, 7:55 AM
2013 will be a very good year for YVR, no? With all the Asia increases, AKL increase and the new MUC flight.

Anyone want to make a complete list of all Asian cities served from YVR with frequencies and aircraft compared with last summer?
I am not familiar with aircraft and frequencies... !

I would hold off a little longer as there still may be more to come.....

Also, EVA Air doesn't usually finalise their summer scheds for a few months anyway.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 24, 2013, 8:08 AM
DL just reinstated the 3rd daily MSP. It appeared this was being reduced to 2 daily in conjunction with the new daily JFK, which is being moved to a red eye.
The early morning MSP departure is back showing daily CR9.
Sat only service to ATL (757) and DTW (738) as last summer and 2 daily SLC remains mix of CR7 and CR9

twoNeurons
Jan 24, 2013, 6:56 PM
For peak summer 2013 schedules KE is upgauging the daily YVR-ICN flight to a 744.

That's a pretty decent increase in capacity.

http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/22/ke-s13update2/

Ooohh... that sounds promising, another 747 for Vancouver. Korean airlines does a decent job of service as well. As my flights to Japan are generally to Osaka (requiring a transfer anyhow), I'd definitely consider flying with Korean Airlines.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 24, 2013, 10:25 PM
Summer scheds showing the 4th daily LAX flight restored.

That was the 1530 departure.

All showing as 734 right now.

Valley_Refugee
Jan 31, 2013, 1:58 AM
YVR ended the year with 17,596,000 passengers, up 3.3% from 2011.

http://www.yvr.ca/en/about/facts-stats.aspx

Johnny Aussie
Feb 8, 2013, 4:08 AM
Winter 2013/14 (12 Dec - 22 Feb) now showing 6 weekly up from 5. One step from daily!

So daily except Tuesdays on 772.

http://airlineroute.net/2013/02/08/nz-w13update1/

teriyaki
Feb 8, 2013, 6:49 AM
Ooohh... that sounds promising, another 747 for Vancouver. Korean airlines does a decent job of service as well. As my flights to Japan are generally to Osaka (requiring a transfer anyhow), I'd definitely consider flying with Korean Airlines.

At the same time though, AC is dropping capacity on this route.

Vancouver – Seoul Incheon eff 01JUN13 Service reduces from daily to 4 weekly

deasine
Feb 8, 2013, 7:40 AM
^I would hope OZ take over the AC capacity when they deploy new aircraft to LAX and JFK.

SpongeG
Feb 8, 2013, 9:48 AM
my friends got return airfare from seattle to new york for $350 - i am going to have to pay opver $700 from edmonton to new york :( not fair

i was at the airport on wednesday, i usually fly with air canada (using air miles rewards) and this time i used or they used west jet so i got to see that terminal - it feels quite old and dated compared to the one air canada uses a lot of it is boarded up for work, that long steep ramp is quite the walk tooo, i didn't see any kind of signage detailing the work going on anywhere in that part of the terminal

Hourglass
Feb 8, 2013, 10:18 AM
At the same time though, AC is dropping capacity on this route.

Vancouver – Seoul Incheon eff 01JUN13 Service reduces from daily to 4 weekly

I get the impression that the new Dreamliners can't arrive soon enough for Air Canada. 4x weekly from Seoul during the peak summer season? Seems like the expansion of flights to Beijing is coming at the expense of Korea.

MetroRailRoad
Feb 9, 2013, 2:53 AM
Here is a photo I t5ook of the Canada Line YVR-Airport station

http://metrorailroad.comli.com/readimage.php?id=11

I am the photographer, taken from http://metrorailroad.comli.com/photodescription.php?id=11

craneSpotter
Feb 9, 2013, 3:02 AM
Thought this was interesting info. The busiest long haul routes 2012: (edit: not routes, market size>>>number of enplaned pax from/to destination)

YYZ-HKG 293,000 pax
YYZ-DEL 176,000 pax
YYZ-LHR 392,000 pax
YYZ-CDG 198,000 pax
YYZ-PEK 182,000 pax
YYZ-PVG 121,000 pax
YYZ-MNL 143,000 pax
YYZ-FCO 181,000 pax
YYZ-ICN 100,000 pax

YVR-PEK 135,000 pax
YVR-DEL 142,000 pax
YVR-MNL 88,000 pax
YVR-LHR 232,000 pax
YVR-HKG 283,000 pax
YVR-PVG 155,000 pax
YVR-ICN 130,000 pax
YVR-NRT 110,000 pax

YUL-CDG 503,000 pax
YUL-LHR 129,000 pax
YUL-CMN 94,000 pax

AC is going to put a 458 seat 777 on the YUL-CDG route - no wonder!

ACT7
Feb 9, 2013, 3:15 AM
Thought this was interesting info. The busiest long haul routes 2012:

YYZ-HKG 293,000 pax
YYZ-DEL 176,000 pax
YYZ-LHR 392,000 pax
YYZ-CDG 198,000 pax
YYZ-PEK 182,000 pax
YYZ-PVG 121,000 pax
YYZ-MNL 143,000 pax
YYZ-FCO 181,000 pax
YYZ-ICN 100,000 pax

YVR-PEK 135,000 pax
YVR-DEL 142,000 pax
YVR-MNL 88,000 pax
YVR-LHR 232,000 pax
YVR-HKG 283,000 pax
YVR-PVG 155,000 pax
YVR-ICN 130,000 pax
YVR-NRT 110,000 pax

YUL-CDG 503,000 pax
YUL-LHR 129,000 pax
YUL-CMN 94,000 pax

AC is going to put a 458 seat 777 on the YUL-CDG route - no wonder!
Do you have a source for that?
AC has 4/5 dailys YYZ-LHR and 1/2 daily YUL-CDG. Both of those routes are 900K plus and 1 MM plus respectively. If BA is only running 2 dailys to YYZ and AF is running 3/4 dailys to YUL I would question those stats quite a bit. Also YYZ-MNL started Nov 30th so it's unlikely there were 143K. Unless I'm not understanding the post.

trofirhen
Feb 9, 2013, 1:37 PM
Thought this was interesting info. The busiest long haul routes 2012:

YYZ-HKG 293,000 pax
YYZ-DEL 176,000 pax
YYZ-LHR 392,000 pax
YYZ-CDG 198,000 pax
YYZ-PEK 182,000 pax
YYZ-PVG 121,000 pax
YYZ-MNL 143,000 pax
YYZ-FCO 181,000 pax
YYZ-ICN 100,000 pax

YVR-PEK 135,000 pax
YVR-DEL 142,000 pax
YVR-MNL 88,000 pax
YVR-LHR 232,000 pax
YVR-HKG 283,000 pax
YVR-PVG 155,000 pax
YVR-ICN 130,000 pax
YVR-NRT 110,000 pax

YUL-CDG 503,000 pax
YUL-LHR 129,000 pax
YUL-CMN 94,000 pax

AC is going to put a 458 seat 777 on the YUL-CDG route - no wonder!


Please observe the numbers for YVR -DEL at 142,0000.
That's more than YYZ -ICN, YYZ - PVG, and nearly equal to YYZ - MNL (and, of course, Phillipine Airlines just got landing rights there).

Closer to home, YVR - DEL exceeds not only YVR -MNL, but also YVR - NRT, YVR - ICN, and YVR - PEK !!

(Not to mention YUL - LHR.)

And all the experts say there isn't enough market to start a direct YVR- DEL service.
Oh. Really? Star Alliance wants to hang on to that route via LHR or FRA. The fact is, that IS a major market, and it pays, as long as it's handled by AC and LH.
IS the yield factor too low on a direct YVR-DEL run? That's the only other explanation I can see as to why either someone doesn't start a direct service, be it AC,or Jet Airways, whatever.
And IMO this is very telling evidence of why Ottawa wanted to keep EK out of YVR.

OK Star-Alliance, you win. For the time being, anyway.

ACT7
Feb 9, 2013, 2:41 PM
Please observe the numbers for YVR -DEL at 142,0000.
That's more than YYZ -ICN, YYZ - PVG, and nearly equal to YYZ - MNL (and, of course, Phillipine Airlines just got landing rights there).

Closer to home, YVR - DEL exceeds not only YVR -MNL, but also YVR - NRT, YVR - ICN, and YVR - PEK !!

(Not to mention YUL - LHR.)

And all the experts say there isn't enough market to start a direct YVR- DEL service.
Oh. Really? Star Alliance wants to hang on to that route via LHR or FRA. The fact is, that IS a major market, and it pays, as long as it's handled by AC and LH.
IS the yield factor too low on a direct YVR-DEL run? That's the only other explanation I can see as to why either someone doesn't start a direct service, be it AC,or Jet Airways, whatever.
And IMO this is very telling evidence of why Ottawa wanted to keep EK out of YVR.

OK Star-Alliance, you win. For the time being, anyway.
These numbers don't make any sense. How in the world can there be 143K pax between YYZ-MNL when it only started a month prior, 3 days a week? There is no YVR-DEL so that also doesn't make any sense. I'm not sure what these numbers are trying to say.

Hourglass
Feb 9, 2013, 3:13 PM
^^

I think these figures are for final destinations of passengers rather than direct flights. For instance, there is a significant Indian population that would fly to South Asian destinations via London, Frankfurt or Hong Kong -- despite the lack of a nonstop flight ex-YVR.

@Trofirhen> the problem with flights to India from Canada are that the price points are very low even though the passenger numbers are very high. That's one of the reasons that the 787 could be a gamechanger for Air Canada, allowing them to launch thinner, long haul routes.

craneSpotter
Feb 9, 2013, 4:28 PM
^^

I think these figures are for final destinations of passengers rather than direct flights. For instance, there is a significant Indian population that would fly to South Asian destinations via London, Frankfurt or Hong Kong -- despite the lack of a nonstop flight ex-YVR.


Yes, this is what I understand.

The stats are enplaned pax only (from/to destination), this is market info. I probably mislead a bit by using the word route instead of market, sorry.

The info was posted by one the airgeeks at airliners.net.

ACT7
Feb 9, 2013, 5:54 PM
Yes, this is what I understand.

The stats are enplaned pax only (from/to destination), this is market info. I probably mislead a bit by using the word route instead of market, sorry.

The info was posted by one the airgeeks at airliners.net.
It would still be nice to have an actual source for this info. I'm questioning YVR-DEL vis-a-vis YYZ-DEL, just as an example. I doubt they would be that close to be honest.

trofirhen
Feb 10, 2013, 1:05 AM
^^

I think these figures are for final destinations of passengers rather than direct flights. For instance, there is a significant Indian population that would fly to South Asian destinations via London, Frankfurt or Hong Kong -- despite the lack of a nonstop flight ex-YVR.

Don't you really mean Star Alliance, LH and AC, who currently seem to have the major market share to India?

@Trofirhen> the problem with flights to India from Canada are that the price points are very low even though the passenger numbers are very high. That's one of the reasons that the 787 could be a gamechanger for Air Canada, allowing them to launch thinner, long haul routes.


I can appreciate the low yield aspect playing a large role here, yes. As far as the (hopefully de-jinxed) 787s entering service, I wonder if this could include something from YVR over the pole to India, or such.

Vancouver is not only probably -- and keeping that role will be ever more challenging ---
the major Asian (more precisely, East Asian) gateway to Canada, but also Canada's Oceania (Sydney, Auckland, one day hopefully Melbourne) hub, modest as it may be.

{(Remember the brief mention of YVR as a mini Virgin Atlantic-V Pacific-(?& V-America?)}

I saw on a chart here the range of the 787, and even with that, YYZ was still beyond nonstop SYD and AKL range.

I'm wishin' and hopin' - as is evryone here, I'm sure- that eventual, over the pole, 787 service YVR to DEL --- maybe even DBX or DOH ... (who knows? ... dare one dream?) ... could combine synergistically to form YVR into perhaps an unexpectedly convenient, however modest the synergy-- hub.

deasine
Feb 10, 2013, 1:59 AM
I don't believe YVR-DEL direct would be one of the first routes. As I mentioned before, the Indian market is a very tricky one: O&D only, long route for an O&D, cost of fuel in India specifically is high relative to other countries. Internally, none of their international carriers are making money: AI is just a full subsidy airline from the gov't, 9W is struggling financially and is looking for outward investment (most likely partial ownership from EY), and we all know what happened to IT (Kingfisher).

trofirhen
Feb 10, 2013, 2:08 AM
^^

I think these figures are for final destinations of passengers rather than direct flights. For instance, there is a significant Indian population that would fly to South Asian destinations via London, Frankfurt or Hong Kong -- despite the lack of a nonstop flight ex-YVR.

@Trofirhen> the problem with flights to India from Canada are that the price points are very low even though the passenger numbers are very high. That's one of the reasons that the 787 could be a gamechanger for Air Canada, allowing them to launch thinner, long haul routes.

I don't believe YVR-DEL direct would be one of the first routes. As I mentioned before, the Indian market is a very tricky one: O&D only, long route for an O&D, cost of fuel in India specifically is high relative to other countries. Internally, none of their international carriers are making money: AI is just a full subsidy airline from the gov't, 9W is struggling financially and is looking for outward investment (most likely partial ownership from EY), and we all know what happened to IT (Kingfisher). Will YVR ever break out of its LHR, FRA, AMS limits, flying eastward or even "over the top?" Ever?

spm2013
Feb 10, 2013, 3:47 AM
At the same time though, AC is dropping capacity on this route.

Vancouver – Seoul Incheon eff 01JUN13 Service reduces from daily to 4 weekly

Maybe they are just balancing their new Toronto-Seoul service starting in 2013.

The launch on June 2 of a new Toronto-Seoul service operating three times a week, creating a fifth Asian destination from Air Canada’s Toronto hub. The year-round service, operated with a Boeing 777-300ER aircraft, will complement existing Vancouver to Seoul service by providing daily departures from Canada to Seoul

http://www.thestar.com/life/travel/2012/11/29/air_canada_makes_huge_push_into_asia.html

twoNeurons
Feb 10, 2013, 6:07 AM
Whether those numbers are accurate or not, it's annoying that they weren't sorted, so I've done that here:


From Toronto
YYZ-LHR 392000 pax
YYZ-HKG 293000 pax
YYZ-CDG 198000 pax
YYZ-PEK 182000 pax
YYZ-FCO 181000 pax
YYZ-DEL 176000 pax
YYZ-MNL 143000 pax
YYZ-PVG 121000 pax
YYZ-ICN 100000 pax

From Vancouver
YVR-HKG 283000 pax
YVR-LHR 232000 pax
YVR-PVG 155000 pax
YVR-DEL 142000 pax
YVR-PEK 135000 pax
YVR-ICN 130000 pax
YVR-NRT 110000 pax
YVR-MNL 88000 pax

From Montreal
YUL-CDG 503000 pax
YUL-LHR 129000 pax
YUL-CMN 94000 pax

trofirhen
Feb 10, 2013, 11:47 AM
I'm surprised YVR - FRA isn't in there somewhere. Surely it must be busier than YVR-MNL (?)

ACT7
Feb 10, 2013, 2:38 PM
I'm surprised YVR - FRA isn't in there somewhere. Surely it must be busier than YVR-MNL (?)
Exactly. If they're not accurate, why bother posting them?
We all might as well post whatever then.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 11, 2013, 9:47 AM
Looked through the scheds and this is what I come up with.

Comparison to 2012 summer.

DOMESTIC
YYC - increase of 1 weekly to 82 per week
YXJ - Encore new 7 weekly
YYZ - increase of 13 weekly to 74 per week
YYJ - Encore new 7 weekly

TRANSBORDER
No change

INTERNATIONAL
No change

Overall summary
55 daily flights (including Encore) up from 51 last summer.
Mainline up 14 per week and Encore a total of new 14 per week.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 11, 2013, 9:25 PM
Looks like Enerjet is taking over the Transat summer charters to CUN and PVR from Western Canada. Operated by 73W.

1 weekly each YEG-YYC-PVR and YEG-YYC-CUN
1 weekly each YVR-CUN and YVR-PVR

Last summer these charters were flown by Canjet on a 738.

trofirhen
Feb 13, 2013, 1:33 PM
People here are saturated with my whinings about YVR-Paris, and so forth, and that's totally understandable.

However, as posted by "isaidso" was that a potential threat to YVR was SEATTLE becoming the "de facto hub for the Pacific NW" and Vancouver and Portland becoming feeder cities into it.

This is already much the case with Portland, but is YVR at risk of becoming a feeder city for SEA-TAC?

I think, really, that that is at the bottom of my whinging, more than just the fact that I'd like such-and-such a destination.

Feedback appreciated on this, as it could turn out to be a syndrome that sticks - much to the detriment of YVR. Or not?? Opinions, please? Thank you :):):)

Hourglass
Feb 13, 2013, 3:52 PM
@trofirhen: For a city of its size, Seattle is probably underserved in terms of international flights. Despite its growth in recent years, it still lags far behind YVR wrt Asian flights, and especially flights from China.

Eventually SEA may catch-up to Vancouver in number of int'l flights, but I don't see it becoming the hub for the entire PNW. YVR is Canada's gateway to Asia and will remain so in the future.

In some ways, I actually see Calgary in the future as a bigger threat to siphon Canada-Asia traffic away from YVR. They have a huge expansion underway -- one that seems way out of proportion for the traffic they handle currently or for growth forecasts. YVR can't afford to get complacent.

trofirhen
Feb 14, 2013, 12:46 AM
@trofirhen: For a city of its size, Seattle is probably underserved in terms of international flights. Despite its growth in recent years, it still lags far behind YVR wrt Asian flights, and especially flights from China.

Eventually SEA may catch-up to Vancouver in number of int'l flights, but I don't see it becoming the hub for the entire PNW. YVR is Canada's gateway to Asia and will remain so in the future.

In some ways, I actually see Calgary in the future as a bigger threat to siphon Canada-Asia traffic away from YVR. They have a huge expansion underway -- one that seems way out of proportion for the traffic they handle currently or for growth forecasts. YVR can't afford to get complacent.
Thanks for you feedback. Three questions, please.

Is Asia really our only strong point or are there other destiantions to be considered, too?

Also, Calgary, if it siphons off traffic (and YYC Airport is getting big, yes) do you mean exclusively Asian traffic? What per cent of the YVR market would they take?

And would YYC get any major destinations YVR would not have? (unlikely, but always possible)

ACT7
Feb 14, 2013, 3:09 AM
Thanks for you feedback. Three questions, please.

Is Asia really our only strong point or are there other destiantions to be considered, too?

Also, Calgary, if it siphons off traffic (and YYC Airport is getting big, yes) do you mean exclusively Asian traffic? What per cent of the YVR market would they take?

And would YYC get any major destinations YVR would not have? (unlikely, but always possible)
YYC has a looooooooooooooooooooooong way to go before it catches up to YVR for international traffic. It is almost entirely domestic pax that is fueling YYC's growth. I don't see YYC siphoning off too much APAC traffic from YVR any time soon.

Hourglass
Feb 14, 2013, 4:45 AM
@ ACT7 - you're right, but never say never. YVR may have the Asian connections now, but Calgary has the critical mass of head office employment to drive additional flights in the future. YYC is forecasting 27 million passengers by 2025, which is HIGHER than YVR's low-end projections of 26.9m passengers in their 2027 master plan (and not so far from their medium-growth forecasts of 33.4m passengers). YYC's growth isn't going to come only from domestic or transborder traffic. Of course, long-term forecasts are guesses at best, but these numbers show their ambition.

@ trofirhen - you might find this article interesting: http://atwonline.com/airports-routes/article/asia-ambition-0202. I think this might answer some of your questions.

trofirhen
Feb 14, 2013, 6:48 AM
I found this part of the article very interesting.........
________________________
“And Vancouver right now is positioned as being the primary connecting hub across the Pacific and then through Canada and North America and perhaps eventually South America. So you’re not going to have Vancouver and Calgary built up as hubs connecting Asia to North America. Only one of them is going to be playing a role as a major connecting hub and that’s going to be Vancouver. The best that Calgary is going to get is more connections across the Pacific..."
____________________________
I'm referring to the part about South America.

Can anyone envision TAM, Avianca or any other airline connecting to South American destinations, be it Caracas or Sao Paolo, flying into Vancouver?
Or any Asian airline stopping at YVR and continuing on to South America? This raises an interesting new angle on YVR's potential pivotal role for S America if the statement comes true.

deasine
Feb 14, 2013, 7:01 AM
I found this part of the article very interesting.........
________________________
“And Vancouver right now is positioned as being the primary connecting hub across the Pacific and then through Canada and North America and perhaps eventually South America. So you’re not going to have Vancouver and Calgary built up as hubs connecting Asia to North America. Only one of them is going to be playing a role as a major connecting hub and that’s going to be Vancouver. The best that Calgary is going to get is more connections across the Pacific..."
____________________________
I'm referring to the part about South America.

Can anyone envision TAM, Avianca or any other airline connecting to South American destinations, be it Caracas or Sao Paolo, flying into Vancouver?
Or any Asian airline stopping at YVR and continuing on to South America? This raises an interesting new angle on YVR's potential pivotal role for S America if the statement comes true.

If an airline believes there is enough either fifth-freedom traffic to Asia or O&D traffic in Vancouver, it may work. While there might be less demand, a connection through YVR has its advantages over connections through US Airports as the Visa & Health regulations in Canada are a bit more accommodating than the US.

SpongeG
Feb 14, 2013, 7:27 AM
since living in alberta i am surprised at the amount of koreans that are living here in northern alberta, i've come across a number of gas stations that are owned or operated by korean immigrants, they could really use some direct korean flights from alberta

trofirhen
Feb 14, 2013, 10:48 AM
If an airline believes there is enough either fifth-freedom traffic to Asia or O&D traffic in Vancouver, it may work. While there might be less demand, a connection through YVR has its advantages over connections through US Airports as the Visa & Health regulations in Canada are a bit more accommodating than the US.

Wouldn't it be great if it did work out that way? We'd be a connector hub for South America, with flights to Bogota, Caracas, Sao Paolo (that's the biggie) ....

I don't want Vancouver to fall into number 2 spot behind Seattle as the defacto Pacific Northwest hub !!

Bigtime
Feb 14, 2013, 2:02 PM
YYC is forecasting 27 million passengers by 2025, which is HIGHER than YVR's low-end projections of 26.9m passengers in their 2027 master plan (and not so far from their medium-growth forecasts of 33.4m passengers).

I'm a born and raised Calgarian, but even I have to question that 27 million number. Seems awfully high and really only a short time away. But nothing like shooting for the moon! :tup:

since living in alberta i am surprised at the amount of koreans that are living here in northern alberta, i've come across a number of gas stations that are owned or operated by korean immigrants, they could really use some direct korean flights from alberta

I still think Korean is one of the best bets for a new pacific carrier into YYC. A few years ago they did run some summer charter flights from ICN to us (ANA did the same before them), the last year that they did them they did open up the bookings to anyone. Perhaps it was a way to test the market for YYC-ICN service?

ACT7
Feb 14, 2013, 2:52 PM
I found this part of the article very interesting.........
________________________
“And Vancouver right now is positioned as being the primary connecting hub across the Pacific and then through Canada and North America and perhaps eventually South America. So you’re not going to have Vancouver and Calgary built up as hubs connecting Asia to North America. Only one of them is going to be playing a role as a major connecting hub and that’s going to be Vancouver. The best that Calgary is going to get is more connections across the Pacific..."
____________________________
I'm referring to the part about South America.

Can anyone envision TAM, Avianca or any other airline connecting to South American destinations, be it Caracas or Sao Paolo, flying into Vancouver?
Or any Asian airline stopping at YVR and continuing on to South America? This raises an interesting new angle on YVR's potential pivotal role for S America if the statement comes true.
I'm not so sure about South America to be honest. Feeder traffic from Asia may play a small role in whether or not those routes would be viable, but you have to remember that in the grand scheme of things, Vancouver's cachment is quite small. It's just as easy to fly from Asia to YYZ and catch a shorter connecting flight to GRU, SCL, EZE, etc which already has premium pax and cargo traffic in place. There isn't a single South American carrier flying into Canada right now and to be honest, I'm not sure that YVR would be the 'hub' of choice given it's distance and the aforementioned cachment. AC would have to more or less switch its focus away from YYZ in order to make a YVR to South America work and that's not too likely to happen.

As for YYC, 27 million by 2025 means about 5% growth per year which overall could be possible, but I don't see that coming from international traffic. I've said this before here and in other threads - YYC would need to be a TRUE hub (not by some arbitrary Air Canada definition) in order to get the kind of international growth they aspire to. Even if three Asian carriers and three more European carriers add service in the next 5-7 years, international pax traffic is not going to skyrocket.

trofirhen
Feb 14, 2013, 5:37 PM
I'm not so sure about South America to be honest. Feeder traffic from Asia may play a small role in whether or not those routes would be viable, but you have to remember that in the grand scheme of things, Vancouver's cachment is quite small. .....
AC would have to more or less switch its focus away from YYZ in order to make a YVR to South America work and that's not too likely to happen..

Just wishful thinking on my part, I guess. I hate seeing Vancouver in the potential shadow of SEA-TAC, let alone YYZ. I had hoped YVR would somehow become a more important, strategic hub, not only for East Asia, but elsewhere also.

I realize now that is not going to happen.

SpongeG
Feb 14, 2013, 9:20 PM
Calgary has gotten increased flights to tokyo...

WestJet's announcement of new services to Chicago and Manzanillo opened up new destinations for Albertans and Air Canada has increased its number of flights to Tokyo.
KLM also announced an increase in frequency on their Amsterdam route.


Read more: http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/yyc-makes-million-per-month-milestone-1.1149354#ixzz2KuWeYXQU

Gordon
Feb 14, 2013, 9:53 PM
West Jet started seasonal service to Chicago from Calgary and Vancouver Last may.

trofirhen
Feb 14, 2013, 10:25 PM
West Jet started seasonal service to Chicago from Calgary and Vancouver Last may.
I recall that, and at the time thought it was year-round. Now (from YVR anyway) it seems to be summer only, or am I wrong?