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trofirhen
Sep 14, 2013, 9:24 PM
[QUOTE=trofirhen;6263869]

Where did you hear about those two things? (the bolded part).
sorry, but I didn't note it down. About the double-daily YYZ-IST I read somewhere, as with the eventual return of Air India. Sorry not to be more precise. Additionally, I spoke with someone at the YVR route development office on this, esp the Istanbul aspect, and they said that the only possibility would be if Turkish (also *alliance) were to try out the route, which seems improbable at present.

Kapten
Sep 17, 2013, 6:41 PM
If Air Canada purchases the new Bombardier C Series jet, could they use it to open up new North American markets from Vancouver?

There are a number of cities not currently served non-stop from Vancouver that may benefit from the plane's range/economics:

Quebec City
Halifax
Boston
Austin or San Antonio
Orlando

Are any of these markets being considered...?

LeftCoaster
Sep 17, 2013, 7:27 PM
I doubt the C series will change any of that as Air Canada could already easily run those routes with their existing A319 fleet.

trofirhen
Sep 17, 2013, 7:52 PM
A YVR route developments rep told me that YVR really wants Orlando. However, as this would apparently be an O / D flight, with little connecting traffic, it's not lucrative enough to be highly sought after. Hopefully, as Vancouver grows, this may change.

Denscity
Sep 17, 2013, 8:49 PM
So glad there's some life in this thread again. Its one of my most favourite of the whole website! Hey Johnny any new additions to YVR's lineup?

rxp
Sep 17, 2013, 10:12 PM
[QUOTE=Kapten;6263746]Any chance we'll see any of these markets open up from YVR with the 787?

Doubtful

YYZ will get J'burg before a YVR-New Delhi link.
I'd bet on YVR-IST before listed destinations

Why would that be the case?

I remember a presser with Kingfisher and BC Govt before it had financial issues... But I still dont get why other airlines are not doing it? The market for India from Vancouver is huge, and they currently go via Europe or Asia...

trofirhen
Sep 17, 2013, 10:49 PM
[QUOTE=YVR Bruce;6263817]

Why would that be the case?

I remember a presser with Kingfisher and BC Govt before it had financial issues... But I still dont get why other airlines are not doing it? The market for India from Vancouver is huge, and they currently go via Europe or Asia...
They also go direct from YYZ, too. Could that play a role in all this?

Hot Rod
Sep 17, 2013, 11:44 PM
Sorry to be a little late, but I saw recently that DL will be dropping the SEA-KIX route in Feb 2014. I suspected as much.

whatnext
Sep 18, 2013, 12:08 AM
[QUOTE=YVR Bruce;6263817]

Why would that be the case?

I remember a presser with Kingfisher and BC Govt before it had financial issues... But I still dont get why other airlines are not doing it? The market for India from Vancouver is huge, and they currently go via Europe or Asia...

Three words: Low Yield Market.

trofirhen
Sep 18, 2013, 1:24 AM
[QUOTE=rxp;6270606]

Three words: Low Yield Market.

I am sure you are totally right, but not having majored in Economics, WHY is this a low-yield market? Not enough Business Class travel?

Vagabond
Sep 18, 2013, 6:50 AM
[QUOTE=whatnext;6270715]

I am sure you are totally right, but not having majored in Economics, WHY is this a low-yield market? Not enough Business Class travel?

Long time lurker, but I have a bit to contribute on this point.

YVR did a pretty comprehensive internal study on the potential for a non-stop YVR-DEL link in 2012 (not published, but not private either). The study included a broad survey of the local business community and was supported by the Provincial Govt (which would love to see a non-stop flight to India for political reasons).

The findings were that, while a huge overall market, YVR-India has pretty minimal business class traffic. YVR-DEL is the 4th busiest route between North America and India, but falls behind virtually every other major NA airport on business class demand (YYZ performed poorly on this indicator as well, actually). The numbers I saw indicated that only about 1% of the traffic between YVR-India is in business class. Considering the economics of ultra long haul (ULH) flights (Delhi would be a 14 1/2 hour flight requiring a 777 or 787), a lack of business class demand means the route is practically a non-starter.

Also, virtually all the Indian airlines are in pretty bad shape financially at the moment. The aforementioned Kingfisher Airlines has been all but wrapped up in bankruptcy and will likely never fly again in India, let alone to North America. Air Canada may make a go of it at some point in the future, but they're more likely to try from YYZ first.

trofirhen
Sep 18, 2013, 8:56 AM
[QUOTE=trofirhen;6270766]

Long time lurker, but I have a bit to contribute on this point.

YVR did a pretty comprehensive internal study on the potential for a non-stop YVR-DEL link in 2012 (not published, but not private either). The study included a broad survey of the local business community and was supported by the Provincial Govt (which would love to see a non-stop flight to India for political reasons).

The findings were that, while a huge overall market, YVR-India has pretty minimal business class traffic. YVR-DEL is the 4th busiest route between North America and India, but falls behind virtually every other major NA airport on business class demand (YYZ performed poorly on this indicator as well, actually). The numbers I saw indicated that only about 1% of the traffic between YVR-India is in business class. Considering the economics of ultra long haul (ULH) flights (Delhi would be a 14 1/2 hour flight requiring a 777 or 787), a lack of business class demand means the route is practically a non-starter.

Also, virtually all the Indian airlines are in pretty bad shape financially at the moment. The aforementioned Kingfisher Airlines has been all but wrapped up in bankruptcy and will likely never fly again in India, let alone to North America. Air Canada may make a go of it at some point in the future, but they're more likely to try from YYZ first.

At this point, in retrospect, it really does seem a shame that Emirates fell through. Oh well, maybe we'll get Istanbul, (if there's a high enough yield factor). That would be a shortcut, anyway, compared to what is there now.

Spork
Sep 21, 2013, 5:09 AM
Horrible shot of the outlet construction taken by me today while PARKED SAFELY ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD.

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/8310/zyx9.jpg

deasine
Sep 21, 2013, 7:25 AM
...on the bridge?!

Spork
Sep 22, 2013, 3:12 AM
That was a "hey, I'm being safe" potentially sarcastic moment. You decide. :)

Johnny Aussie
Sep 26, 2013, 7:12 AM
Just had a look at a few things happening:

China Eastern

MU has revised its winter scheds. Originally the increase was going to be from a single daily last winter to double daily this winter. Now the frequencies will vary between 10 weekly and 14 weekly depending on the period. I would still say this is an overall pretty big increase in capacity year on year.

http://airlineroute.net/2013/09/20/mu-w13update1

Air China

Effective 10 October, Air China will begin code sharing on a few Air Canada domestic routes from YVR to YYC, YEG, YWG, YYZ, YOW and YUL.

http://airlineroute.net/2013/09/26/caac-codeshare-oct13/

Delta Air Lines

Although preliminary, Delta appears to be increasing YVR-ATL next summer from 1 to 3 weekly. Added flights on Wednesdays (757) and Sundays (738) along with the usual Saturdays (757). The other Delta routes are pretty much status quo for now.

Johnny Aussie
Sep 29, 2013, 4:50 AM
The UA non-stops to Dulles which were introduced this summer twice-weekly must have been successful.

Effective 5 June daily 320 to depart at 1230.

Looks like a bit of a turnaround to east coast flights with the additional DL flights to ATL and the continuing DL daily to JFK which was new for summer 2013.

Not bad.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 1, 2013, 6:55 PM
A very good month for YVR.

All sectors except Misc International have very healthy growth.

http://yvr.ca/Libraries/Aviation_Marketing/Aug_Traffic_Update.sflb.ashx

Some highlights:

Overall up 5.9 % to over 1.9M (record month). Getting close to a 2M month.
Domestic up 5.5% to 998K (record month). Getting close to a 1M month.
Transborder up 5.1% to 467K.
Asia Pacific up an impressive 10.3% to 271K (record month).
Europe up 4.8% to 178K (second best month ever).
Note: sched Europe up a massive 15.7%.
Misc International down 6.7% to 18.8K. I assume reduced sun destinations.

Denscity
Oct 1, 2013, 7:50 PM
Once again the bringer of good news Johnny! Nearly 2M a month projects to 24M a year which would shatter the record!! Awesome! Go YVR go!!!

Johnny Aussie
Oct 1, 2013, 8:02 PM
Once again the bringer of good news Johnny! Nearly 2M a month projects to 24M a year which would shatter the record!! Awesome! Go YVR go!!!

Whoa...ease up there tiger! ;-)

YVR is a very seasonal market. August is always by far the biggest month. June, July and September also pretty big. But months like April and November are much quieter. Hard to project an annual figure by using the biggest month only. Let's work on getting to 20 million first :-)

Hopefully the momentum continues. Certainly some good bumps coming up on international (mainly Asia Pacific of course) for the winter months. And early previews to next spring and summer looking not bad either.

Denscity
Oct 1, 2013, 8:35 PM
Ya I know but with 3 records things are looking up. I do realize that 24M would be over 6 million over the record which isn't realistic yet.

LeftCoaster
Oct 1, 2013, 8:37 PM
Not even close, good news for sure though.

rxp
Oct 1, 2013, 11:15 PM
[QUOTE=trofirhen;6270766]

Long time lurker, but I have a bit to contribute on this point.

YVR did a pretty comprehensive internal study on the potential for a non-stop YVR-DEL link in 2012 (not published, but not private either). The study included a broad survey of the local business community and was supported by the Provincial Govt (which would love to see a non-stop flight to India for political reasons).

The findings were that, while a huge overall market, YVR-India has pretty minimal business class traffic. YVR-DEL is the 4th busiest route between North America and India, but falls behind virtually every other major NA airport on business class demand (YYZ performed poorly on this indicator as well, actually). The numbers I saw indicated that only about 1% of the traffic between YVR-India is in business class. Considering the economics of ultra long haul (ULH) flights (Delhi would be a 14 1/2 hour flight requiring a 777 or 787), a lack of business class demand means the route is practically a non-starter.

Also, virtually all the Indian airlines are in pretty bad shape financially at the moment. The aforementioned Kingfisher Airlines has been all but wrapped up in bankruptcy and will likely never fly again in India, let alone to North America. Air Canada may make a go of it at some point in the future, but they're more likely to try from YYZ first.

I am just thinking outloud here and apologies me for this, but could an airline (Use BA as an example) market a direct flight from YVR to Del and just have London as a stopover (for those who want to get off/ on, fuel, food etc) and away you go... the best part is that it is not even a full turnaround, its a partial, so it can be quick...
it would be like back in the day (dating my self here btw) the Canadian airlines used to land in Goose Bay, to fuel up before continuing... perhaps something could be done... I understand both route use the 747...

deasine
Oct 2, 2013, 5:10 AM
I am just thinking outloud here and apologies me for this, but could an airline (Use BA as an example) market a direct flight from YVR to Del and just have London as a stopover (for those who want to get off/ on, fuel, food etc) and away you go... the best part is that it is not even a full turnaround, its a partial, so it can be quick...
it would be like back in the day (dating my self here btw) the Canadian airlines used to land in Goose Bay, to fuel up before continuing... perhaps something could be done... I understand both route use the 747...

If you are talking about a single flight number, I do not think this is possible unless they the airline/country has the fifth freedom right.

But just to note, depending on the airline and their operations, one can effectively be boarding the same plane after their quick layover.

twoNeurons
Oct 2, 2013, 5:57 PM
Sorry to be a little late, but I saw recently that DL will be dropping the SEA-KIX route in Feb 2014. I suspected as much.

:( That makes me sad. I really would love to see the AC flight to Osaka from YVR reinstated and I fear DL dropping this route doesn't help its viability. It seems that Japan's focus is on Haneda, Haneda, Haneda to compete with its rival in Seoul.

deasine
Oct 2, 2013, 7:13 PM
:( That makes me sad. I really would love to see the AC flight to Osaka from YVR reinstated and I fear DL dropping this route doesn't help its viability. It seems that Japan's focus is on Haneda, Haneda, Haneda to compete with its rival in Seoul.

The low Japanese YEN isn't exactly helping the cause. DL and UA both have an incredibly high presence and reliance on Japan and they've been trying to diversify away from this. With DL ramping up int'l Asian operations in SEA and trying to make SEA their Asian hub, it's inevitable that it will come at a cost of its other routes.

Gordon
Oct 2, 2013, 8:06 PM
UA now flies YVR DCA same plane on its 8:04 flight to ORD

Johnny Aussie
Oct 3, 2013, 10:45 PM
Canada and Japan have completed negotiations giving Canadian carriers "daytime access to Tokyo's Haneda Airport..."

So will this mean AC will actually launch YVR-HND? Access is granted commencing April 2014. Perfect time for a spring launch.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/mediaroom/releases-2013-h127e-7368.html

Thanks to AlbertanToo for posting this news item in the YYC thread.

deasine
Oct 4, 2013, 9:45 AM
Canada and Japan have completed negotiations giving Canadian carriers "daytime access to Tokyo's Haneda Airport..."

So will this mean AC will actually launch YVR-HND? Access is granted commencing April 2014. Perfect time for a spring launch.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/mediaroom/releases-2013-h127e-7368.html

Thanks to AlbertanToo for posting this news item in the YYC thread.

This would be wonders. NRT is unreasonably far away from Tokyo Proper and is only a good airport if you are transiting to other destinations. This would also give some competition to DL who has services to HND via SEA.

twoNeurons
Oct 6, 2013, 7:06 AM
It would likely be a YYZ - YVR - HND route, picking up business travellers from both cities before crossing the pond.

They did try a YVR - HND when they first got the landing slot, but cancelled it last minute. I was booked into one of the flights, but they switched us to Narita.

I don't know if they'd be ready for the spring, but... that's when Air Canada receives its first 787s. Seems this would be a good route for that plane. AC can charge more for business pax to HND and combined with the lower operating costs and smaller size of the 787... they'd probable make decent margins.

Here's hoping they have some promotional prices if they launch the route.

deasine
Oct 6, 2013, 8:57 PM
Well AC is supposed to have a new J configuration on the 787 that is rumored to be an upgrade over the current pods that is not in the form of the current staggered J in their HD 777s (i.e. ala Swiss staggered J configuration). It wouldn't be a bad route to debut something like this.

deasine
Oct 7, 2013, 4:56 PM
Some add'tl news not related to the developments of YVR per say, but new business for the airport authority.

JFK gets automated passport system to reduce delays

...

At O'Hare, only U.S. citizens could initially use the kiosks, but this month the program was expanded to include Canadian citizens as well.


Machines made by SITA at Orlando International "are deployed but not yet in use," said SITA's Sean Farrell. "We're just waiting for U.S. Customs and Border Protection to certify the system, but right now that agency is on furlough."

Houston's Bush Intercontinental Airport has 20 kiosks that should be operational by the end of the year.

Dallas/Fort Worth International is planning to have 30 machines it purchased from the Vancouver Airport Authority at a cost of about $2 million up and running by early November.
Source: CNBC via NBC (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101087960)

Coldrsx
Oct 7, 2013, 4:58 PM
This would be wonders. NRT is unreasonably far away from Tokyo Proper and is only a good airport if you are transiting to other destinations. This would also give some competition to DL who has services to HND via SEA.

Yes and no, far yes, but exceptionally well connected via their express. Easy peasy.

deasine
Oct 7, 2013, 4:59 PM
Yes and no, far yes, but exceptionally well connected via their express. Easy peasy.

Still at least an hour via NEX. And I'm too cheap so I take the Keisei Main, which just adds to the time. We honestly have it too easy at YVR; 26 minutes via local train is really nothing.

Coldrsx
Oct 7, 2013, 5:19 PM
^I found it pleasant to kick back, relax and have a few Suntory.

deasine
Oct 7, 2013, 8:18 PM
Switching back to YVR development news, the airport authority (finally) posted another episode of the A/B connector series.

76361864

whatnext
Oct 9, 2013, 6:55 AM
A couple shots I took today of the new Larry Berg planespotting park at the end of runway 26L. I like the minirunway, wonder if it lights up at night?

http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy177/Whatnext2010/2013-10-08135858_zps2e21f4e3.jpg (http://s789.photobucket.com/user/Whatnext2010/media/2013-10-08135858_zps2e21f4e3.jpg.html)
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy177/Whatnext2010/2013-10-08140103_zps5be018dd.jpg (http://s789.photobucket.com/user/Whatnext2010/media/2013-10-08140103_zps5be018dd.jpg.html)

officedweller
Oct 9, 2013, 8:33 PM
Switching back to YVR development news, the airport authority (finally) posted another episode of the A/B connector series.



I saw a construction crane up at YVR last night at the south end of the domestic terminal.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 12, 2013, 12:16 AM
So now effective 29 Jan 2014 the B744 upgauge previously noted for the Feb-Mar period is being extended indefinitely right through summer 2014.

Also, LH YVR-MUC is being brought forward another month to now commence on 30 March. Originally was going to be started in late April (a month earlier than last year... so now 2 months earlier).

Soooo more good news for YVR-Europe hot off the heels of the AC YVR-LHR upgauge to the larger 77W, as well and the new seasonal Icelandair flights to KEF.

http://airlineroute.net/2013/10/11/lh-s14update1/

On a side note... too bad no more 346s then! But more 744 action....

deasine
Oct 12, 2013, 4:48 AM
Soooo more good news for YVR-Europe hot off the heels of the AC YVR-LHR upgauge to the larger 77W,

I don't think this is "good news" per say, aside from the addition of Premium Y. J passengers loose their pods configuration, while the masses in Y are sardined into a 3-4-3 configuration (vs. existing 3-3-3).

The only 777 that has a higher capacity than AC is AF, but they only send those to vacation destinations. The capacity on the new 777s actually fits more passengers than some QF, SQ, and KE A380s...

Johnny Aussie
Oct 12, 2013, 5:18 AM
I don't think this is "good news" per say, aside from the addition of Premium Y. J passengers loose their pods configuration, while the masses in Y are sardined into a 3-4-3 configuration (vs. existing 3-3-3).

The only 777 that has a higher capacity than AC is AF, but they only send those to vacation destinations. The capacity on the new 777s actually fits more passengers than some QF, SQ, and KE A380s...

Funny, I was going to add a proviso to the AC LHR comment something like good news and in brackets (but not necessarily in a service way) but didn't! Ha.
I was talking from a capacity point of view only!
If you think that's bad... YVR-HKG is going to me even more harsh! Westbound is going to be a killer in Y.
I hope AC keeps their hands off the SYD-YVR route... I like the status quo :-) and speaking of SQ A380... Another flight on that beautiful bird in just a couple of weeks :-). And also having a ride on the Dreamliner in about 5 weeks time :-)

deasine
Oct 12, 2013, 8:52 AM
I hope AC keeps their hands off the SYD-YVR route... I like the status quo :-)

AC last year increased frequency to SYD to 10 weekly during the winter. Maybe this year the added capacity for the 77Ws would circumvent the need to run more planes ;) 17-hours on any plane is bad, 17-hours on that thing is definitely a killer.

There's a reason why I fly UA now. I would rather fly AC to be honest, but the Tango 50% mileage-earn fares and high density configurations make me choose UA. Plus I get complimentary Y+ seats, which beats AC Y any day.

To be honest though, I don't really think 3-4-3 is that terrible given that this seems to be the direction most airlines are going with (EK, NZ, AA all have 3-4-3 configurations on 777s; 3-3-3 configurations are also found on all 787 operators except for JL, NH will be configuring it to a higher density). But ACs 77W deployment to HKG is the longest flight, and most of these operators with high density configurations aren't flights as long as YVR-HKG.

connect2source
Oct 12, 2013, 3:57 PM
[QUOTE=Johnny Aussie;6300330]So now effective 29 Jan 2014 the B744 upgauge previously noted for the Feb-Mar period is being extended indefinitely right through summer 2014.

Great for spotting but not as a passenger as many of LH's 744's have not yet had interior upgrades to include PTV's and other Y class enhancements, much needed for the 10+ hours to ( edit ) FRA.

Porfiry
Oct 12, 2013, 4:14 PM
I don't think this is "good news" per say, aside from the addition of Premium Y. J passengers loose their pods configuration.

Have you flown the new J? What do you dislike about it?

(YYC is also being up-gauged to the 773 to LHR and FRA)

libtard
Oct 12, 2013, 7:51 PM
A couple shots I took today of the new Larry Berg planespotting park at the end of runway 26L. I like the minirunway, wonder if it lights up at night?



Indeed it does

deasine
Oct 12, 2013, 9:08 PM
Have you flown the new J? What do you dislike about it?

(YYC is also being up-gauged to the 773 to LHR and FRA)

I haven't, but I've tried an exact product before: it's alright, nothing too special. For the East Coast and Europe, this product isn't too bad because: (1) it's not a long flight, (2) the competition has mediocre J products, the LH old J, AF J, KL J are worse than ACs (I think only Club World in BA might be better but I don't know). However, competing against Asian airlines, CX's reverse herringbone configuration is arguably much better. I think the worse part of the new AC Js is loosing the direct aisle access, whereas the pods had them before. I've also heard reports of feeling really narrow, but personally I didn't think this was an issue.

Mind you I'm usually back in Y so...

Indeed it does

Can also confirm; was there last night!

Johnny Aussie
Oct 18, 2013, 4:41 AM
United

IAH - adding a second service on Sundays for the bulk of the winter scheds
DEN - adding a third service (Express) on Saturdays and Sundays

Overall slight upguaging on all routes as well compared to last winter.

Alaska(Horizon)

SEA - a seventh daily DH4 being added (compared to 6 last couple of winters)

deasine
Oct 18, 2013, 7:33 PM
Some bad news. AC has applied HND-YYZ flight taking advantage of the recent Japan-Canada bilateral.

http://www.travelvision.jp/news/detail.php?id=59225

AC's original HND route was to YVR, but that was cancelled last minute in part due to (1) poor demand which is connected to (2) poor timing of slots that didn't work for business travellers nor for connecting passengers.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 18, 2013, 7:40 PM
Some bad news. AC has applied HND-YYZ flight taking advantage of the recent Japan-Canada bilateral.

http://www.travelvision.jp/news/detail.php?id=59225

AC's original HND route was to YVR, but that was cancelled last minute in part due to (1) poor demand which is connected to (2) poor timing of slots that didn't work for business travellers nor for connecting passengers.

Sorry your link is only in Japanese. Is there an English link?

deasine
Oct 18, 2013, 8:31 PM
Sorry your link is only in Japanese. Is there an English link?

You'll need to use Google Translate for now; there hasn't been any English sources at this point in time.

This is timely as AA just yesterday announced ending HND-JFK. A HND-YYZ-East Coast could work if timed properly.

YYCspotter
Oct 18, 2013, 8:31 PM
Sorry your link is only in Japanese. Is there an English link?

(AC) has applied for Haneda / Toronto line in the 2014 summer schedule to IATA ( International Air Transport Association ) Air Canada . To take advantage of the daytime slots observed in aviation negotiations between Canada and Japan , it's underway to prepare for the in service from the end of March next year . Mr. Weiss Takayo of AC Japan branch length is revealed in the Showcase Canada - Asia 2013 being held in Hangzhou of China .

It said, " as well as the Tokyo metropolitan area , Haneda is expected to transit demand from the region . We would like to increase sales in Japan ," said Mr. Weiss hopes to Haneda . Equipment expected to become a Boeing B777 aircraft . AC was planning the flying of Haneda / Vancouver line by using the frame early morning late in 2012 , but there are circumstances who stopped because it is not expected to be enough demand .

The AC also filed Narita line . According to Weiss , Calgary and Vancouver wire line to maintain the 7 flights per week , will continue studying the future for Toronto line . For transit demand , it's thought of as " or not , can I respond to that demand even Haneda " because it routes from Asia to fly into Haneda will increase future when when in Narita .

In addition , Weiss showed the idea to strengthen stimulate demand to Cuba and South America , including the United States as Toronto continues beyond . Also, if you are a transit time when on the same day in Vancouver via , and also mentioned that that there are no collection of tax . Further, since the ESTA is required at the time of U.S. entry , as well as to highlight the benefits of Canada direct flights , immigration has appeal and smooth in the United States entry in Canada via the case entering the Canada through the United States .


I google translated it, so it won't be 100% accurate.

Edit: some of this makes little sense.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 18, 2013, 10:07 PM
I google translated it, so it won't be 100% accurate.

Edit: some of this makes little sense.

That was rather entertaining.

In any event I think I got the gist of most of it. YYZ-HND switch from NRT whilst YVR and YYC maintain NRT.

Hot Rod
Oct 19, 2013, 4:46 AM
Also I understand the end as:

YYZ may be expanded into routes in the US, Cuba, and South America (likely via code share) given Canadian preclearance Immigration standards. If anticipated demand to those nations exceeds expectations, then it might be possible to route them to HND via Vancouver as well, or exclusively.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 20, 2013, 4:01 AM
So ANA has been awarded a Haneda - Canada slot.

Since AC has also been awarded a Haneda - Canada slot and it appears AC wants to use this for a YYZ - NRT flight....

So which route do you all think NH (All Nippon Airways or ANA) will use for its slot?

I would guess YVR? But nothing would surprise me in the airline world these days...

An interesting analysis of the whole HND slot awards...

http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/japan-awards-international-tokyo-haneda-airport-slots-but-narita-airport-remains-the-main-hub-132103

When politics is so involved in airline routing and this is made public... it makes for all sorts of interesting speculation!

deasine
Oct 20, 2013, 7:04 AM
Hmmm this is an interesting one. One would think YVR might be an obvious choice, but keep in mind YVR doesn't have the capacity/flights that can feed additional transborder traffic. Given the current capacity to Japan from YVR, I'm not sure if there is O&D enough demand to support an additional regular service flight. I know the JL flights are often pretty empty... YYZ actually has the potential capacity/traffic.

Keep in mind, NH also flies to SEA albeit using a NRT with a smaller capacity 787. And while there is more transfer traffic capacity at SEA (especially in domestic US), SEA isn't a UA fortress unlike SFO, which explains the smaller capacity aircraft (and 787 also allows for addt'l profit on "thinner" yielding routes).

THAT BEING SAID, NH and UA have a TPAC JV. Given ACs Transborder with UA and TATL A++ JVs UA, LH, AC, in addition to ACs desire to re-focus on Asia and capture more US transfer traffic, AC could join UA/NH TPAC JV, which would make a HND-YVR flight much more attractive.

BUT, just because NH has a slot doesn't mean they have to use it. Canada didn't use its HND slots for a long time, and United States only used it for their AA flight for the reason that it was so highly coveted. Then again, with NH gaining so many more slots than JL, it might be in NHs interest to "use it for now" to ensure that they keep the slot to themselves so that it won't be transferred to JL.

I'm just thinking aloud.

Prometheus
Oct 20, 2013, 8:14 PM
YVR ready to connect the dots

By Chuck Chiang, Vancouver Sun October 20, 2013


YVR may already have more direct flights to China than any other airport in North America, but to Craig Richmond, the true potential of Vancouver International Airport as a global gateway has yet to be unleashed.

Richmond, the newly minted president and CEO of the Vancouver Airport Authority, is scheduled to speak this week to the Vancouver Board of Trade regarding YVR’s future plans. But in an interview last week, he discussed in detail some of the main points of his vision, one which could unleash Vancouver’s geographical advantage as a major transfer point between two burgeoning Pacific markets — Asia and Latin America.

With 17.6 million passengers and 228,000 tonnes of cargo travelling through YVR last year, the airport is already home to 23,000 jobs and the country’s second busiest air travel facility. But officials at YVR envision even more traffic — and thus, even more jobs and economic benefits to B.C.

The idea is to leverage Vancouver’s position as a connection gateway between the two continents to realize YVR’s full strength as one of British Columbia’s highest-profile economic engines.

Richmond called it “connections that work.”

“You can call it a gateway,” Richmond said of his vision for YVR. “You can call it whatever you want. But the fact is, YVR has always been a gateway throughout its history … and it is a status we’d like to at least maintain.”

According to Richmond, YVR’s strong collection of flights from China — 75 per week at current count — gives the airport a powerful clientele to work with when engaging air carriers on Latin American destinations, especially those located in South America, where there are currently no direct flights from Vancouver.

Vancouver’s sizable natural resources industry has been seeking direct flights to places such as Lima, Peru or Santiago, Chile for years, but the added leverage of business travellers from China and other regions of Asia may finally open that door, Richmond said.

(Roughly 271,000 scheduled passengers from Asia Pacific destinations like China passed through YVR in August — up 10 per cent from last year.)

“Even with the mining companies we have here (in Vancouver), it’s just not enough,” he said, noting local traffic isn’t enough to entice airlines to begin direct services. “But with connecting passengers from Beijing, from Shanghai, from Hong Kong, now you have a viable route.”

The key is the securing of a “transfer without visa” program to allow a quicker, more convenient connection process for international passengers travelling between Asia and South America through Vancouver.

In Asia, the system is already big business. Major airports (Tokyo’s Narita and Haneda, Seoul’s Incheon, Beijing’s Capital, Shanghai’s Pudong, Hong Kong, Bangkok’s Suvarnabhumi and Singapore’s Changi) all vie for international connection business, and it is extraordinarily common for foreign passengers to quickly connect from their home countries onto flights to a third country without entering the country where the airport is located.

In many of these airports, the connection areas’ duty-free shopping and services rival five-star hotels and major malls, and the revenue generated is staggering. Seoul’s Incheon International generated US$1.73 billion in duty free sales in 2012, with annual growth rates at around 13 to 14 per cent, according to a report by travel publication TR Business.

In YVR’s case, there is currently a “transfer without visa” program in place for travel between China and the United States. Richmond said a similar agreement with other countries would create a boon that would inject serious capital into the economy of the Lower Mainland.

“We’ve had conversations with carriers, and they’ve said they would definitely prefer the (visa-free transfer) program,” Richmond said, but added that it is imperative that officials in Ottawa realize the opportunity at hand.

It’s hard, at this point, to not recall the aviation dispute between Canada and the United Arab Emirates of the past few years. The squabble resulted in defence minister Peter MacKay’s flight being denied landing rights in the UAE in 2010, and Emirates could not gain direct flights from Dubai to places like YVR and Calgary, or additional flights to Toronto Pearson.

Instead, Emirates launched a number of other routes, including a Dubai-Seattle service — one viewed by Richmond as an opportunity lost.

“People speak about win-win situations,” he said. “In commercial aviation, there’s always a winner and a loser, because a one air carrier flight can only go to one place. Last year, Seattle got Emirates. In that case, they won.

“We need to be more modern in our thinking. Sometimes, Ottawa wants to keep people out, and that’s not how the modern world works. “

YVR has worked hard to prepare for the global transfer point it aims to be, Richmond added. A $100 million high-speed baggage system is under construction, and the Airport Authority plans to revisit its master development plan early next year to review its next steps. Meanwhile, officials plan to meet with Ottawa on the visa-free transfer program in November.

For Richmond, YVR is ready.

“It’s risk-free,” he said. “We have the money and the expertise. We just need the permission to do it. … Our whole reason for being is to create jobs for B.C., and we can do more of that — much more — if government lets us.”
Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/Business/asia-pacific/Chuck+Chiang+ready+connect+dots/9058732/story.html#ixzz2iIMIWbz6

Spork
Oct 20, 2013, 9:27 PM
Photos of some sort of construction at YVR. B concourse renovations, perhaps? Taken by me about 2 weeks ago.

http://imageshack.us/a/img819/6889/87oo.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/87oo.jpg/)

http://imageshack.us/a/img854/1482/qxs7.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/qxs7.jpg/)

Jebby
Oct 21, 2013, 12:48 AM
I'm surprised YVR doesn't have visa-free transfers for international flights.

trofirhen
Oct 21, 2013, 2:40 AM
Making YVR a "hinge" between Asia and South America seems a fantastic concept for the growth of YVR, and I hope others agree on that.

However, using an air miles calculator, and assuming that long haul jets (presumably 787s) would be used on such routes, the distance from HK to Sao Paolo via YYZ is 20,766 km, whereas via YVR it is 21,346 km.

This makes the Vancouver run 570 km (361 miles) longer.

However ... HK to Lima via YYZ is 18,769 km, while from Vancouver it is a little SHORTER at 18,451 km, a difference, favoring Vancouver, of 318 km.

Would such figures have any impact on route choice regarding fuel costs?
I hope that YVR can indeed find a role as an Asia - S. America transfer hub.

Jebby
Oct 21, 2013, 3:40 AM
Making YVR a "hinge" between Asia and South America seems a fantastic concept for the growth of YVR, and I hope others agree on that.

However, using an air miles calculator, and assuming that long haul jets (presumably 787s) would be used on such routes, the distance from HK to Sao Paolo via YYZ is 20,766 km, whereas via YVR it is 21,346 km.

This makes the Vancouver run 570 km (361 miles) longer.

However ... HK to Lima via YYZ is 18,769 km, while from Vancouver it is a little SHORTER at 18,451 km, a difference, favoring Vancouver, of 318 km.

Would such figures have any impact on route choice regarding fuel costs?
I hope that YVR can indeed find a role as an Asia - S. America transfer hub.

I don't think Sao Paolo would be considered for such a route, I doubt there's much Vancouver-Brazil business like there is in the mining/resource sector for Vancouver-based companies with operations in Colombia/Peru/Chile/Venezuela.

YYCspotter
Oct 22, 2013, 11:26 PM
Rumour over on Flyertalk.com that OZ is going to take over flying for AC on YVR-ICN next spring. Source is a YVR concierge. Apparently OZ have contracted AC to do its ground handling for them. It appears that AC is trying to free up a 767.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 23, 2013, 3:05 AM
Rumour over on Flyertalk.com that OZ is going to take over flying for AC on YVR-ICN next spring. Source is a YVR concierge. Apparently OZ have contracted AC to do its ground handling for them. It appears that AC is trying to free up a 767.

"Take over" or "in addition to?". I have understood YVR has been on Asiana's radar for the last few years as one of the top priority new destinations.

Air Canada's short-lived attempt at non-stops to YYZ was just that, short-lived.

Not sure if AC is trying to free up a 767 other than transfer more of them to Rouge....

As always... Guess we'll have to wait and see for an announcement....

YYCspotter
Oct 23, 2013, 3:16 AM
"Take over" or "in addition to?". I have understood YVR has been on Asiana's radar for the last few years as one of the top priority new destinations.

Air Canada's short-lived attempt at non-stops to YYZ was just that, short-lived.

Not sure if AC is trying to free up a 767 other than transfer more of them to Rouge....

As always... Guess we'll have to wait and see for an announcement....

The user on Flyertalk said take over flying from AC.. considering they are star alliance partners it might happen.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 23, 2013, 3:33 AM
The user on Flyertalk said take over flying from AC.. considering they are star alliance partners it might happen.

Of course... In the airline world anything is possible.

The comment about AC appearing to be trying to free up a 767. Is that part of the speculation? My understanding is Asiana adding its own flights. Perhaps... perhaps not. The fact they have contracted AC to do the ground handling makes sense in any event.

YYCspotter
Oct 23, 2013, 3:43 AM
Of course... In the airline world anything is possible.

The comment about AC appearing to be trying to free up a 767. Is that part of the speculation? My understanding is Asiana adding its own flights. Perhaps... perhaps not. The fact they have contracted AC to do the ground handling makes sense in any event.

About the 767, just a guess on my part.. with all the rouge expansion they might need it?

We'll have too see what happens I guess. Maybe OZ takes over the AC flight, or maybe they are just in addition.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 23, 2013, 4:11 AM
About the 767, just a guess on my part.. with all the rouge expansion they might need it?

We'll have too see what happens I guess. Maybe OZ takes over the AC flight, or maybe they are just in addition.

Agreed. Until the deal is signed and sealed... Always fun to speculate though. Wouldn't surprise me if they free up a 763 to do more transcon as equip seems either too big or too small to gain efficiencies on nailing the right frequency. YVR-YYZ up to 4 777 a day in winter with reduced frequency and a 333 being thrown on YUL. Lots of heavy transcon action this winter!

deasine
Oct 23, 2013, 8:54 AM
I'll believe it when I see it. Not that it's an unreasonable proposition, but OZ has not been aggressively expanding due to its fleet size and without additional deliveries, additional destinations without reducing existing capacity will be a challenge. However, something like this wouldn't be unreasonable especially since AC has announced YYZ being its first primary global hub. Transferring this route over to OZ while adding a codeshare will allow AC to transfer its resources back to Rouge and YYZ as you said. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if NRT is the next to be dropped if ANA launches services here...

moosejaw
Oct 23, 2013, 2:58 PM
Any schematics with whats going on with A-B connector? All i can find is the one YT video

Johnny Aussie
Oct 23, 2013, 6:42 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. Not that it's an unreasonable proposition, but OZ has not been aggressively expanding due to its fleet size and without additional deliveries, additional destinations without reducing existing capacity will be a challenge. However, something like this wouldn't be unreasonable especially since AC has announced YYZ being its first primary global hub. Transferring this route over to OZ while adding a codeshare will allow AC to transfer its resources back to Rouge and YYZ as you said. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if NRT is the next to be dropped if ANA launches services here...

Asiana is getting its first A380s next spring so expect a fleet shuffle. Agreed though, until the deal is signed and sealed... Let's wait and see.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 24, 2013, 12:17 AM
Did a bit more sniffing around about this Asiana rumour.

Interestingly, Air Canada has just moved their YVR-ICN flight next summer from a departure of 1150 to a 1325 departure. The flight is still showing as AC63 daily 763. One could argue these flight times (both inbound and outbound at ICN) more closely match Asiana's other North American flights

:hmmm:

This is the only Asian flight by Air Canada that has moved departure times (so far) next summer. Asiana's code-share is still showing at 1150... sometimes the carrier operating the flight shifts their times first before the codeshare airlines follow.

:hmmm:

Johnny Aussie
Oct 24, 2013, 12:19 AM
China Eastern has just loaded their double daily service again for next summer's schedule to PVG. Assuming they must have been successful.

Was showing only single daily a few days ago.

So flights will be daily at 0130 and 1330. Exactly 12 hours apart.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 24, 2013, 5:43 AM
Looking like another decent month

http://yvr.ca/Libraries/Aviation_Marketing/Sep_Traffic_Update.sflb.ashx

Highlights:

Overall up 3.3% best Sept ever
Domestic up 3.8% best Sept ever
Transborder up 1.5%
Asia Pacific up 7.4% best Sept ever
Europe up 0.1% (scheduled up 11.5% but charter down 22.4%**)
** reflects the decrease in Air Transat flying and the loss of Air Berlin
Misc International - down 8.1% (less sun destination flying)

cyeg66
Oct 24, 2013, 3:05 PM
Looking like another decent month

http://yvr.ca/Libraries/Aviation_Marketing/Sep_Traffic_Update.sflb.ashx

Highlights:

Overall up 3.3% best Sept ever
Domestic up 3.8% best Sept ever
Transborder up 1.5%
Asia Pacific up 7.4% best Sept ever
Europe up 0.1% (scheduled up 11.5% but charter down 22.4%**)
** reflects the decrease in Air Transat flying and the loss of Air Berlin
Misc International - down 8.1% (less sun destination flying)

Beat me to it. Pretty good month overall. YVR's gonna come really close to beating their record year of 2008, finally. I figure it'll come to within +\- 10k. :tup:

Johnny Aussie
Oct 25, 2013, 10:37 PM
Beat me to it. Pretty good month overall. YVR's gonna come really close to beating their record year of 2008, finally. I figure it'll come to within +\- 10k. :tup:

It will be tight.

Looking towards the end of 2013 only... further boosts happen in late winter 2014 but that won't affect 2013's numbers obviously.

Domestic - capacity seeing a tick up with the new Encore services (most of these are pure additions and not replacing mainline with the exception of YLW where one of the daily mainlines is being replaced by Encore but YXS goes to 4 daily with one of the daily jets being replaced by two daily Encore). Compared to last winter, new routes to YKA, YXT, YXJ and YYJ. However, there is the loss of YUL Westjet non-stops for the winter. Air Canada domestic about the same overall with a few shifts around here and there. Actually, because of the new Q400s there actually are quite a few capacity increases on a few routes (YLW, YXJ, YXT, YXS) plus increases to YXY (going to be 2 daily mainline) YWG (increasing to 3 daily from 2 last winter) and YMM (going to 2 daily CRJs from 1 last winter). And some serious heavy mainline action to YYZ and a daily 333 to YUL.

Transborder - Westjet's net increase of 1 additional daily spread between LIH and KOA. United showing slight capacity increases mainly due to equipment vs additional flights. AS to SEA up one daily to a total of 7 and LAX upguaging one of the dailies to a 739 plus the midday flight goes to a mix of 738/739 as well. AC to LAX upgauging the morning flight from E90 to 320, but losing one weekly frequency to each of HNL and OGG. There don't appear to be any other capacity cuts on any route.

International - all about China of course (increases by CZ, CA, MU). Plus additional Sunwing sun destination flights. Air NZ frequencies up as well (wouldn't be surprised to see next winter they increase to daily from 6 weekly). Philippines keeps flipping around up and down but pretty much the same. And Air Canada chucks the high density 77W on certain flights starting this week. Everyone else pretty much the same. There don't appear to be any capacity cuts on any route compared to the same period last year.

So looking fairly promising...

twoNeurons
Oct 28, 2013, 6:29 PM
Wow. Lots of activity here. I'm with deasine. I'd be surprised if AC kept NRT if ANA starts flying the route. Here's hoping ANA chooses to fly HND-YVR with a 787. Great news for passengers, though. Both ANA and JAL offer an excellent trans-pacific product.

A little disappointed that YYZ got the HND flight, but I guess that leaves the opportunity open for ANA to fly to YVR. It could be a Atar alliance strategy as well. AC may have talked to ANA and offered ANA YVR-HND in exchange for AC running HND-YYZ.

The South American connection is interesting. I can't speak for China, but Brazil and Japan have had a long-standing relationship going back many decades with many Japanese emigrants moving to Brazil and Brazilian emigrants moving to Japan.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 28, 2013, 7:38 PM
Both ANA and JAL offer an excellent trans-pacific product.

A little disappointed that YYZ got the HND flight, but I guess that leaves the opportunity open for ANA to fly to YVR. It could be a Atar alliance strategy as well. AC may have talked to ANA and offered ANA YVR-HND in exchange for AC running HND-YYZ.

The South American connection is interesting. I can't speak for China, but Brazil and Japan have had a long-standing relationship going back many decades with many Japanese emigrants moving to Brazil and Brazilian emigrants moving to Japan.

Yes. And JAL will introduce their new Sky Suite in a few weeks on the YVR-NRT route.

Would be great to see both ANA and Asiana at YVR. I wouldn't be surprised to see ANA do YVR-HND and AC do YVR-NRT. The slots are now there for ANA-Canada so will have to wait and see what they do with them.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 28, 2013, 10:18 PM
http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/top-destinations-for-2014-named-by-lonely-planet-20131028-2wbpm.html

I am not necessarily saying this will boost travel numbers but I doubt this hurts!

deasine
Oct 29, 2013, 1:36 AM
http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/top-destinations-for-2014-named-by-lonely-planet-20131028-2wbpm.html

I am not necessarily saying this will boost travel numbers but I doubt this hurts!

Given the Australian source, I wouldn't be surprised if we see an even higher frequency of AC YVR-SYD flights this year. While the AUD has slumped a little compared to the same time last year, I think travel between the two countries has been steadily increasing.

Or AC can just fly their high density 777-300ER instead... good luck Johnny.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 29, 2013, 2:18 AM
Given the Australian source, I wouldn't be surprised if we see an even higher frequency of AC YVR-SYD flights this year. While the AUD has slumped a little compared to the same time last year, I think travel between the two countries has been steadily increasing.

Or AC can just fly their high density 777-300ER instead... good luck Johnny.

Bite your tongue. Unless I would be guaranteed J on that flying beast (either booked or using e-upgrades) I would choose Air NZ. I couldn't imagine having to spend 15 hours packed in the back of a high density 777. Not so bad on a shorter flight but not the mega long-haul!

twoNeurons
Oct 29, 2013, 9:52 PM
Bite your tongue. Unless I would be guaranteed J on that flying beast (either booked or using e-upgrades) I would choose Air NZ. I couldn't imagine having to spend 15 hours packed in the back of a high density 777. Not so bad on a shorter flight but not the mega long-haul!

That 777 is 3-3-3 right?
What does AZ use? what's their seating plan in economy?

nname
Oct 29, 2013, 10:09 PM
Does the high density 777-300ER even have enough range for such a long route? The maximum range for the -300ER is about 3000 km shorter than the -200LR, which is barely enough to complete the route with full load, and certainly not enough for any possible diversion. Airlines that uses the -300ER on long routes like that may have to scarify some density to reduce the load...

jhausner
Oct 30, 2013, 7:31 PM
AZ uses a 777-219ER. I think the range on the 300ER is fine. Have about 1200nm to play with on a flight from Syd to Van.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 2, 2013, 11:56 PM
The new CEO of VIAA really being proactive in trying to find more passengers. Really thinking outside the box.

http://www.biv.com/article/20131101/BIV0118/131039977/-1/BIV/vancouver-airport-ceo-urges-canada-to-accept-us-visas

trofirhen
Nov 3, 2013, 12:35 AM
Please don't accuse me of copycating in any way.

Johnny, you deliver up-to-the-moment developments at VYR better than anyone.

Nevertheless, in a last year's article from BIV, and also by Glen Korstrom,
about much of which is already known (the launch of LH to MUC etc; old stuff) .....

... there is current relevancy. An interesting overview of the route expansions that people at YVR have in mind, in this excerpt.
An expansion substantially larger to what we now have, if it ever came about. I hope it will and that most
-(this being a little old hat, yes, but interesting anyway)-would look forward to it.

*
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

YVR aims to add non-stop flights to India, South America


VIAA executives are negotiating with carriers to launch non-stop flights to India, Peru and Chile to service business demand.

Executives such as Optimus Information Inc. CEO Pankaj Agarwal have told Business in Vancouver
that they would buy business-class tickets on non-stop flights to India if those flights existed.

Agarwal travels to India about four times each year because his company has a New Delhi office,
and he currently has to fly business class out of Vancouver either on Japan Airlines or Lufthansa.
He believes that were a carrier to fly non-stop to India from Vancouver that the flights would also attract
Seattle passengers because there’s no non-stop option to New Delhi from the North American west coast.

VIAA’s Korenic said that strong demand for business-class tickets is key to the viability of non-stop flights between Vancouver and New Delhi.

“Volume is not the issue. We have a large market with India and a large potential market on the tourism side –
but do we have a big enough business market to support the route?
Some aircraft could have a full flight and still lose money.”

Korenic has been researching the viability of non-stop flights to Peru and Chile partly because there’s no non-stop service from Vancouver to South America.
Many local mining companies have major operations in those countries. Vancouver-based Finning International Inc.’s (TSX:FTT) Chilean subsidiary has been growing fast
and won US$497 million worth of new contracts earlier this month.

Korenic is also trying to convince airlines to agree to launch non-stop flights to:

•second-tier Chinese cities such as Wuhan, Xiamen and Huangzhou;

•the Persian Gulf; and

•Southeast Asia.
Tags: Chile (http://www.biv.com/section/BIV&template=topic?t=2558&topic=Chile), India (http://www.biv.com/section/BIV&template=topic?t=2580&topic=India), Peru (http://www.biv.com/section/BIV&template=topic?t=2607&topic=Peru), Air Canada (http://www.biv.com/section/BIV&template=topic?t=2839&topic=Air%20Canada), Finning International Inc. (http://www.biv.com/section/BIV&template=topic?t=3311&topic=Finning%20International%20Inc.), tourism (http://www.biv.com/section/BIV&template=topic?t=4811&topic=tourism), Vancouver International Airport Authority (http://www.biv.com/section/BIV&template=topic?t=4956&topic=Vancouver%20International%20Airport%20Authority), gross domestic product (http://www.biv.com/section/BIV&template=topic?t=4981&topic=gross%20domestic%20product), mining (http://www.biv.com/section/BIV&template=topic?t=5161&topic=mining), air transport (http://www.biv.com/section/BIV&template=topic?t=5164&topic=air%20transport)

http://www.biv.com/article/20121120/BIV0118/311209910/-1/BIV/airlines-to-launch-new-international-non-stop-services-from-vancouver

Prometheus
Nov 5, 2013, 9:50 AM
Visa initiative could draw new direct flights to YVR

http://www.biv.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=GV&Date=20131104&Category=BIV0118&ArtNo=311059977&Ref=AR&exactW=380

By Glen Korstrom, Business In Vancouver, Monday, November 4, 2013

Federal government red tape is strangling Vancouver International Airport's ability to be a gateway to the Americas while costing the city hundreds of jobs, according to Vancouver International Airport Authority (VIAA) CEO Craig Richmond.

One stifling regulation requires Chinese nationals to get a Canadian visa when they change planes at Vancouver International Airport (YVR) en route to South America.

That inconvenience steers Chinese traffic to South America through other cities, such as Dubai, Richmond told Business in Vancouver.

"There're 1.2 million people flying annually between China and South America and [the amount of traffic] is going to explode because of mining work," he said. "We're not taking advantage of that."

Liberalized Canadian visa requirements would enable Vancouver to tap into that traffic and make it viable for an airline to operate direct flights between Vancouver and South America.

No direct flights operate between Vancouver and South America, but the number of direct flights between Vancouver and mainland China hit a high of 54-per-week earlier this year.

If Vancouver does land some of the traffic between China and South America, Richmond would seek approval to build a "secure transit facility," where South American-bound Chinese nationals and others would be able to wait and change planes – all without clearing Canadian customs. That area would include duty-free shops, spas, showers and other amenities along with boarding gates.

The Canadian government currently requires most international passengers changing planes in Vancouver to pass through Canadian customs.

VIAA research estimates that each new daily international flight generates between 150 and 200 direct jobs servicing planes, passengers and cargo at YVR.

Each new flight from China creates 400 more jobs across Metro Vancouver at cafes, hotels and tourist attractions, Richmond said.

"This will generate a lot of business for us," China Southern Airlines marketing and business development manager Paul Chu told BIV.

He added that if traffic is substantial China Southern would consider basing a plane in Vancouver, which would create more jobs. China Eastern Airlines marketing and sales manager Ben Lee told BIV that if visa-free transit results in a strong uptick in traffic, his airline would also increase flights through Vancouver.

Source: http://www.biv.com/article/20131104/BIV0118/311059977/visa-initiative-could-draw-new-direct-flights-to-yvr

deasine
Nov 5, 2013, 10:02 AM
TBH the entire transit visa thing baffles me. Unlike US, most Canadian airports are configured to allow for int'l-int'l connections bypassing the need for customs. Without even major modifications to YVR, this is already possible so I'm not sure why a "secure transit zone" is required given that one cannot leave the int'l departures area already. (Note the difference in the US, where one can freely leave a secured area and where int'l and domestic flights can be accessed from the same area).

Given that people can't technically leave and won't be "entering" Canada, I can't see why we need transit visas.

YVR Bruce
Nov 5, 2013, 3:27 PM
Given that people can't technically leave and won't be "entering" Canada, I can't see why we need transit visas.


The issue is on the other end of YVR-originating intern'l flights, which are currently accepted in places as FRA as Canadian-controlled. With an open cross-dock of PX here, it would change "our" treatment at many destinations. Just watch an arrival of Iran Air at CPH or FRA: an initial passport inspection + interview at the gate before allowing those Px to the terminal and immigration.

Much bigger hubs such as FRA screen all arrivals prior to transfer

trofirhen
Nov 5, 2013, 4:14 PM
Whatever the case, I think this move is going to push YVR up into a higher tier of airport importance, and than can only be good, good, good.
(unless you live in an area subject to airplane noise)!

Johnny Aussie
Nov 6, 2013, 3:28 AM
Effective 12 November CMA is increasing YVR-YDQ to 12 flights per week from 6 per week. All flights to be operated by Dash8-100.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 6, 2013, 4:20 AM
I realise this is a rising market and all that but still not a huge market....

With Westjet Encore starting the 2 new daily fights the end of this month and Air Canada's increasing from 3 to 4 daily this winter... PLUS Hawkair increasing to up to 24 flights per week this winter (up from only 19 last year).. that's getting close to 10 flights per day. Crazy growth in seats!

With the additional flights to Ft St John and Dawson Creek, good to see flights to Northern BC increasing

Now to get some non-stops to Grande Prairie, Red Deer and Lethbridge. Perhaps re-start Yellowknife too.

SteveK
Nov 6, 2013, 6:23 AM
Now to get some non-stops to Grande Prairie, Red Deer and Lethbridge. Perhaps re-start Yellowknife too.

How about some added capacity to Prince Rupert. Currently 3 flights per day (2 AC, 1 HawkAir). Either another flight, or Q400s instead of 300s. I fly YYJ-YPR via YVR once every 6 weeks or so, and for the past 2 years I would estimate flight are no less than 90% full...quite often full.

Denscity
Nov 6, 2013, 6:39 AM
Wow Castlegar has more flights than Prince Rupert!! Weve got 4 AC flights a day:3 Vancouver and 1 Calgary. Population 8000. And bidding for Encore. And rumours of an American airline to service the nearby ski hills.

Bigtime
Nov 6, 2013, 1:57 PM
Wow Castlegar has more flights than Prince Rupert!! Weve got 4 AC flights a day:3 Vancouver and 1 Calgary. Population 8000. And bidding for Encore. And rumours of an American airline to service the nearby ski hills.

Yeah but that is just to strengthen the odds that one of those flights can actually make it in. :haha:

Porfiry
Nov 6, 2013, 5:26 PM
Wow Castlegar has more flights than Prince Rupert!! Weve got 4 AC flights a day:3 Vancouver and 1 Calgary. Population 8000. And bidding for Encore. And rumours of an American airline to service the nearby ski hills.

OK, but Castlegar services all the local towns in the area - Nelson, Trail, Rossland, etc. - right? The population of those three alone is nearly 2x Prince Rupert.

Denscity
Nov 6, 2013, 6:13 PM
Yeah but that is just to strengthen the odds that one of those flights can actually make it in. :haha:

Haha zing. So is having a mountain at each end of the runway not normal?? :P

Denscity
Nov 6, 2013, 6:14 PM
OK, but Castlegar services all the local towns in the area - Nelson, Trail, Rossland, etc. - right? The population of those three alone is nearly 2x Prince Rupert.

Yes. YCG is the West Kootenay Regional Airport and the regions population is 80000+. Which means we are currently UNDERserved then. :yes:
We also have more flights than Penticton which also has a population of roughly 80000. Would love all these rumoured additions to our airport!!

SteveK
Nov 6, 2013, 7:26 PM
OK, but Castlegar services all the local towns in the area - Nelson, Trail, Rossland, etc. - right? The population of those three alone is nearly 2x Prince Rupert.

You're right, and was going to be my point on the comparison between YPR and YCG. YPR only really serves Prince Rupert...with many people in Prince Rupert actually flying out of Terrace because of better choices, and no old bus and ferry to the airport.

YCG has a great nickname - "Cancel-gar".

Johnny Aussie
Nov 6, 2013, 9:05 PM
Good to see some lively discussions.

I think the one hurdle to any of these other places is the size of the metal. Need a lot of bums to fill a 78-seater. Even with lower operating costs to break-even a lot of capacity to absorb.

I think Encore is going to shift some of its focus to Central and Eastern Canada as well so perhaps Western expansion will slow.

I am pleasantly surprised at the new routes from YVR, but I still think there will be more on the horizon. But when looking at the potential new bases I think the number will be quite limited.

SteveK
Nov 6, 2013, 9:48 PM
Good to see some lively discussions.

I think the one hurdle to any of these other places is the size of the metal. Need a lot of bums to fill a 78-seater. Even with lower operating costs to break-even a lot of capacity to absorb.


For YPR I was thinking more along the lines of AC using Q400 in place of their Q300s. Only 25 or so more seats to sell, instead of finding a full 78 new bums. I don't think Encore will give YPR much thought until they have fully served Terrace and get a good indication of how many passengers going to/coming from Rupert there are. I wish they would though for my sake....:)

trofirhen
Nov 6, 2013, 10:56 PM
Haha zing. So is having a mountain at each end of the runway not normal?? :P
Yes, those mountains indeed create a challenge. Maybe that's why the aviation school is there.
Flight training at an airport with the most difficult (and dangerous) steeply angled
takeoffs and landings make a guy ready for just about any airport.