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Denscity
Nov 8, 2013, 6:50 AM
Yes, those mountains indeed create a challenge. Maybe that's why the aviation school is there.
Flight training at an airport with the most difficult (and dangerous) steeply angled
takeoffs and landings make a guy ready for just about any airport.

Thats right Trof. Apparently 10% of all AC pilots took their schooling here. We also have one of the best semi truck driving schools in the country due to our challenging highway mountain passes.

Mike K.
Nov 11, 2013, 7:19 PM
Korean Airlines will begin codesharing with Etihad (one of the UAE airlines that the federal government did not grant additional slots for due to concerns by Air Canada) on its route to Vancouver.

Also in the partnership spectrum – small but more rationale – Korean Air is expanding a deal with Etihad Airways, now a global leader in cross-border purchases and partnerships. Korean Air will code on Etihad's services to Johannesburg and Muscat while Etihad will code on Korean's services to Honolulu and Vancouver.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/korean-air-sees-success-from-csa-czech-airlines-acquisition-while-growing-its-etihad-partnership-138069

trofirhen
Nov 11, 2013, 8:00 PM
Korean Airlines will begin codesharing with Etihad (one of the UAE airlines that the federal government did not grant additional slots for due to concerns by Air Canada) on its route to Vancouver.



http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/korean-air-sees-success-from-csa-czech-airlines-acquisition-while-growing-its-etihad-partnership-138069
Does this mean that Etihad metal could fly into YVR en route to/from Seoul?
Or am I dreaming again?

deasine
Nov 11, 2013, 8:14 PM
Does this mean that Etihad metal could fly into YVR en route to/from Seoul?
Or am I dreaming again?

I think you need to re-read it.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 11, 2013, 9:00 PM
I think you need to re-read it.

Yes, this refers to code-share only.

The bilateral between Canada and the UAE has not changed. Therefore, the maximum number of frequencies allowed between UAE and Canada remains fixed at 6 per week.

Here is a link to the CTA's approval of the code-share with more details. This approval was granted in September.

http://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/359-a-2013

trofirhen
Nov 11, 2013, 9:06 PM
Yes, this only refers to code-share only.

The bilateral between Canada and the UAE has not changed, therefore, the maximum number of frequencies allowed between UAE and Canada remains fixed at 6 per week.

Here is a link to the CTA's approval of the code-share with more details. This approval was granted in September.

http://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/359-a-2013
Thank you, Johnnie. I appreciate the link to the clarification, and I appreciate your politeness. :)

Johnny Aussie
Nov 11, 2013, 9:13 PM
Thank you, Johnnie. I appreciate the link to the clarification, and I appreciate your politeness. :)

No worries mate.

I just looked at the gcmapper and this is actually quite a long route to get to Abu Dhabi.

YVR-ICN-AUH is 9364 miles
YVR-YYZ-AUH is 9008 miles
YVR-LHR-AUH is 8155 miles
YVR-FRA-AUH is 8049 miles.

So quite a long way around to go via Seoul.

trofirhen
Nov 11, 2013, 9:21 PM
No worries mate.

I just looked at the gcmapper and this is actually quite a long route to get to Abu Dhabi.

YVR-ICN-AUH is 9364 miles
YVR-YYZ-AUH is 9008 miles
YVR-LHR-AUH is 8155 miles
YVR-FRA-AUH is 8049 miles.

So quite a long way around to go via Seoul.
Sure is. Wish we had a Gulf carrier direct. Even Qatar Airways.

connect2source
Nov 12, 2013, 5:36 PM
Blurry hi-zoom iphone shot of the B-Pier construction from Terra-Nova in Richmond.

Looks to be quite large scale as roof height looks close to that of the main terminal area.

I'm just wondering why YVR is making a mess of the overall terminal design with every pier being updated in an entirely different architecture and style than the previously updated ones like the C-Pier update. The domestic terminal once had a very stylish and cohesive design, now our airport is beginning to look like a hodgepodge of styles from different eras, much like Miami ( MIA ), LAX and SFO.

Photo By : connect2source
http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag130/Dean_Ellison/yvr_zpsb7826aa2.jpg

officedweller
Nov 12, 2013, 8:23 PM
Probably because architecturally, visitors really only see the outside of the main departures halls.

The old domestic terminal had a pretty landmark modern design - surpirsed that it was redone without an outcry:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8217/8310696207_201a219df4_c.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45379817@N08/8310696207/in/photostream/

s211
Nov 12, 2013, 8:52 PM
Probably because architecturally, visitors really only see the outside of the main departures halls.

The old domestic terminal had a pretty landmark modern design - surpirsed that it was redone without an outcry:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8217/8310696207_201a219df4_c.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45379817@N08/8310696207/in/photostream/

Ah, yes, the microscopic arrivals level on the very bottom was for international passengers, IIRC. Been awhile.

craneSpotter
Nov 12, 2013, 10:12 PM
Air Canada considers direct flights between Vancouver and India

BIV Nov 11, 2013 (http://www.biv.com/article/20131111/BIV0118/311129854/executives-debate-value-of-free-trade-in-the-skies?utm_source=BIV+Weekly+Asia+Pacific&utm_campaign=2a3c47eb00-Weekly_Asia_Pacific_Tuesday_November_1211_12_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2edfe05771-2a3c47eb00-210265225)

When Air Canada (TSX:AC.B) receives six Boeing 787 Dreamliners next year, it plans to base at least one of the planes in Vancouver, CEO Calin Rovinescu told Business in Vancouver.

"With the Dreamliner, you could have the right number of seats for a route such as Vancouver to India. So, India will be one of the routes we'll be studying."

Vancouver Airport Authority's director of aviation marketing, John Korenic, has been trying to convince various carriers for years that direct Vancouver-India flights make economic sense.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 12, 2013, 10:23 PM
Air Canada considers direct flights between Vancouver and India

BIV Nov 11, 2013 (http://www.biv.com/article/20131111/BIV0118/311129854/executives-debate-value-of-free-trade-in-the-skies?utm_source=BIV+Weekly+Asia+Pacific&utm_campaign=2a3c47eb00-Weekly_Asia_Pacific_Tuesday_November_1211_12_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2edfe05771-2a3c47eb00-210265225)

Good to hear "at least one" of the 787s will be based in YVR.

As for direct flights to India... I won't hold my breath! But, as always, you never know. The economics of the 787 may make that a potentially viable route. Perhaps at least seasonal. :shrug:

craneSpotter
Nov 12, 2013, 10:27 PM
YVR, Air Canada CEOs clash over push to open up airline competition


BIV Nov 11, 2013 (http://www.biv.com/article/20131111/BIV0118/311129854/executives-debate-value-of-free-trade-in-the-skies?utm_source=BIV+Weekly+Asia+Pacific&utm_campaign=2a3c47eb00-Weekly_Asia_Pacific_Tuesday_November_1211_12_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2edfe05771-2a3c47eb00-210265225)

The CEO of Canada's largest airline has come out swinging against Vancouver Airport Authority CEO Craig Richmond's drive to convince Ottawa to negotiate less restrictive air agreements so more carriers can fly in and out of Vancouver International Airport (YVR).

"We don't support and we will continue to not support that,"

Air Canada (TSX:AC.B) president and CEO Calin Rovinescu told Business in Vancouver during an exclusive interview.

Richmond last month told BIV ("Flight plans" – BIV profile; issue 1252; October 22-28) that his top priority was to convince the federal government to negotiate freer air agreements with the United Arab Emirates (UAE), Thailand and countries in South America to secure more direct flights to and from YVR and increase air traffic through the airport.

But Rovinescu opposes air agreements that let carriers in countries with small populations fly directly to Canada because he fears his airline would lose passengers to competition yet not find it viable to fly the same route.

In 2010, when Emirates Airline sought to expand its thrice-weekly Toronto-Dubai service and launch a Vancouver-Dubai route, Air Canada opposed the move, arguing that Emirates would pick up passengers from Canada and take them to third countries using Dubai as a stopover.

That would mean a loss of passengers for Canadian airlines without any reciprocal gain from new passengers coming from Dubai.

Hmmm, AC has a point I guess, of course from the view of a protected national carrier ;) I believe YVR wanted to hub PAX going from Asia to SA - otherwise they will just go through US. A good opportunity for YVR.

connect2source
Nov 13, 2013, 12:04 AM
Probably because architecturally, visitors really only see the outside of the main departures halls.

The old domestic terminal had a pretty landmark modern design - surpirsed that it was redone without an outcry:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8217/8310696207_201a219df4_c.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45379817@N08/8310696207/in/photostream/

Huge shame but I don't think there was much appreciation for that style in the early 2000's, the only examples remaining of this true late 60's international Style are Bentall 1 and 2. Would have been fantastic if some of the original elements were retained, the materials were far superior as well.

officedweller
Nov 13, 2013, 12:12 AM
Huge shame but I don't think there was much appreciation for that style in the early 2000's, the only examples remaining of this true late 60's international Style are Bentall 1 and 2. Would have been fantastic if some of the original elements were retained, the materials were far superior as well.

Agreed - no aluminum paneling in sight...

Gordon
Nov 13, 2013, 3:37 AM
I think YVR wants to develop it's self as a a gateway between Asia & South America. Some of the South American airlines may be ACs parteners for all we know..
It would be nice if the same architecural style was used for the various renovations.

Pier b is supposed to look like Pier A does.

whatnext
Nov 13, 2013, 3:41 AM
Ah, yes, the microscopic arrivals level on the very bottom was for international passengers, IIRC. Been awhile.

I must be older than you, I remember when the very bottom level was the parkade! Now its the 7-11 etc.

All in all the terminal was a very cohesive design that was totally trashed. Only the outbuildings like the power plant, RCMP office remain.

deasine
Nov 13, 2013, 5:58 AM
Hmmm, AC has a point I guess, of course from the view of a protected national carrier ;) I believe YVR wanted to hub PAX going from Asia to SA - otherwise they will just go through US. A good opportunity for YVR.

AC has been unusually commenting on a lot of airport development affairs. When YEG welcomed Icelandair, there was a lot of comments on that and indirectly connecting the YEG-RKV route as a justification of AC cancelling its YEG-LHR service.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 13, 2013, 6:12 AM
AC has been unusually commenting on a lot of airport development affairs. When YEG welcomed Icelandair, there was a lot of comments on that and indirectly connecting the YEG-RKV route as a justification of AC cancelling its YEG-LHR service.

And really talking up its new commercial agreement with GTAA to develop YYZ into an even bigger global hub.

AC already hubs a lot of South America - Asia traffic through YYZ. One of the contributing factors YYZ has caught up to / surpassed YVR on the AC Asian routes in terms of capacity.

SFUVancouver
Nov 13, 2013, 6:48 AM
It's apropos of nothing, but I'm taking the biggest flight of my life later this week:

YVR-LHR-JNB

33,294km/20,688 miles round trip. I'm taking BA 744s for both legs.

mezzanine
Nov 13, 2013, 7:45 AM
Sweet. How close would you be to one world ruby?

I've throw my lot in with star alliance, but you can get a lot of intl flights on one world from YVR. I miss taking the CX direct red eye to JFK, getting the airtrain/E-train and having an extra full day. AC's direct service goes to newark, transfers are a little more hassle and it eats up a whole day of travel.

Vagabond
Nov 13, 2013, 7:49 AM
Air Canada considers direct flights between Vancouver and India

BIV Nov 11, 2013 (http://www.biv.com/article/20131111/BIV0118/311129854/executives-debate-value-of-free-trade-in-the-skies?utm_source=BIV+Weekly+Asia+Pacific&utm_campaign=2a3c47eb00-Weekly_Asia_Pacific_Tuesday_November_1211_12_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2edfe05771-2a3c47eb00-210265225)

This whole article highlights what seems to be a carrot/stick approach by AC towards YVR (and YEG, etc.).

"Don't even think about Open Skies but hey, we'll toss you a bone and let you have one 787. We'll even consider flying it to (the apparently only airport in) India, so there's no need for you to court Emirates, etc. What more do you want YVR!?" ;)

I've said here before that I don't think a non-stop flight from YVR to India (Delhi) is particularly likely for numerous reasons - distance, seasonality, low yield, etc. I doubt AC are going to venture into this market anytime soon, and if they do, it will 99.9% be from YYZ and not YVR (at least initially). Plus I believe that markets like India will be much better served from YVR by the cheap connecting flights via major (Asian & European) hubs brought on by more Open Skies agreements, not expensive ultra long haul flights on AC 787s.

trofirhen
Nov 13, 2013, 11:33 AM
In the BIV article, it mentions one 787 being based in Vancouver. However, I thought that was for an upcoming service to Brisbane / Frankfurt.
In an earlier article posted, an Indian businessman who travels between Vancouver and India said he believes that not only would there be a large enough business class
to make the route profitable, but additionally, that it would be the only polar route to India from the West Coast, and would catch a lot of Seattle traffic.

I think Air Canada is up to its old "protectionist" tricks. That is: "route 'em through Toronto!!"

Thousands Wouldn't
Nov 13, 2013, 3:56 PM
Is there a thread created with regard to the new Outlet Mall u/c at YVR yet?

Vagabond
Nov 13, 2013, 5:16 PM
In the BIV article, it mentions one 787 being based in Vancouver. However, I thought that was for an upcoming service to Brisbane / Frankfurt.
In an earlier article posted, an Indian businessman who travels between Vancouver and India said he believes that not only would there be a large enough business class
to make the route profitable, but additionally, that it would be the only polar route to India from the West Coast, and would catch a lot of Seattle traffic.


I agree that if AC timed the flight correctly, then it would be an attractive option for those travelling to Delhi FROM the US West Coast. However, Canada requires visas for transiting passengers from countries like India (as discussed earlier in this thread) so the demand going the other direction would be minimal unless this requirement was lifted.

Also, while the leisure traffic from YVR to India largely does go to Delhi, the business traffic is far more diversified (and equally heads to Bangalore, Mumbai, etc.) A non-stop from YVR-DEL would ill serve these markets unless a comprehensive codeshare deal was struck with an Indian airline to carry passengers to other airports in the country (definitely feasible).

I'm also skeptical of the anecdotal "evidence" describing legions of Indo-Canadian businessmen flying to/from India multiple times a year in J or F. In my (equally anecdotal-based) opinion, I would guess that demographic (here in the Lower Mainland) probably numbers only in the dozens. I'm happy to be proved wrong on this count.

Just to disclose, I and/or my extended family do fly at least a couple times of year between YVR and India, so I'm all in favour of better connectivity between these two markets. However, I've watched this process carefully for the past couple of years and come to the conclusion that the drivers for a non-stop flight from YVR-DEL are largely political and not economic. A desire to pander to the politically influential Indo-Canadian community in the Lower Mainland along with the pretense that such a flight would boost trade results in a lot of buzz, but not much of a business case.

SFUVancouver
Nov 13, 2013, 6:53 PM
Sweet. How close would you be to one world ruby?


Just under half-way. I will earn 140 tier points under the BA Executive Club frequent flyer program and I need 300 to move up from 'Blue' to 'Bronze', which qualifies as OneWorld Ruby status. If I have understood their system correctly, I have a year to earn enough points to move up to the next tier. What's unclear is whether the tier points reset at the end of that year.

wrenegade
Nov 13, 2013, 10:46 PM
Is there a thread created with regard to the new Outlet Mall u/c at YVR yet?

No, I believe updates would be just posted here (as well as anything for the Pacific Processing Centre). I've been going out to Iona once a week for the past month or so but have been on my bike so no chance to take any photos. Pre-loading is underway at the outlet mall and the post office building is probably 85% complete. A friend of mine works for Canada Post and has been there to work on some equipment but it is not fully up and running yet. My understanding though is that there are some Canada Post employees there full-time working on setup inside.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 14, 2013, 1:12 AM
It's little things like this that will help YVR into the future.

http://www.biv.com/article/20131108/BIV0106/131109941/0/SEARCH/Vancouver-signs-five-year-tourism-promotion-deal-with-Guangzhou

"In turn, we look forward to assisting our colleagues at Tourism Guangzhou with access to the North American market through Vancouver – which has more direct flights to China than any other city in the Americas."

The agreement seeks to strengthen the growing market of tourism from China. By 2014, China is expected to be Vancouver's second-largest group of international tourists, second only to the United States.

With China Southern publicly stating YVR will be one of its next 787 routes, I would expect them to increase frequency as well.

Eventually will we see all of the big 3 Chinese carriers with double daily YVR-China??

craneSpotter
Nov 15, 2013, 7:34 PM
In the BIV article, it mentions one 787 being based in Vancouver. However, I thought that was for an upcoming service to Brisbane / Frankfurt.
In an earlier article posted, an Indian businessman who travels between Vancouver and India said he believes that not only would there be a large enough business class
to make the route profitable, but additionally, that it would be the only polar route to India from the West Coast, and would catch a lot of Seattle traffic.

I think Air Canada is up to its old "protectionist" tricks. That is: "route 'em through Toronto!!"

It would seem that an AC 787 to Brisbane is more likely than to India...(maybe India could be more of a 'Rouge' fit?). It also seems that there is a good probability of two 787s being based at YVR next year. More from BIV here:

BIV Nov 14, 2013 (http://www.biv.com/article/20131114/BIV0118/131119967/air-canada-boosts-capacity-to-hong-kong-london-reduces-business-class)

"Rovinescu had hinted to BIV that one potential future route could be between Vancouver and India – something that the Vancouver Airport Authority has sought for years.

In his VBOT speech, however, he hinted at two other possible flights: Vancouver-Brisbane, Australia, and Vancouver-Frankfurt, Germany.

Air Canada’s executive vice-president and chief commercial officer Benjamin Smith explained after Rovinescu’s speech that although it would not be hard to fill flights between Vancouver and India, it would be difficult to be reliably profitable because there is so much competition at major Indian airports. Fewer carriers fly to Brisbane, he added."

twoNeurons
Nov 15, 2013, 10:55 PM
To be honest, India is more of an Air Transat / Charter airline fit. There just isn't the same level of India - Canada business connections like Canada - China.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 16, 2013, 2:23 AM
It also seems that there is a good probability of two 787s being based at YVR next year.

"Rovinescu had hinted to BIV that one potential future route could be between Vancouver and India – something that the Vancouver Airport Authority has sought for years.

In his VBOT speech, however, he hinted at two other possible flights: Vancouver-Brisbane, Australia, and Vancouver-Frankfurt, Germany.

Yeah we will see.... YVR-FRA is definitely the worst kept secret... LOL. I was thinking that might actually get delayed when LH announced boosting YVR-FRA to a 744 though.

Just had my first trip on the 787 this morning. A 3 hour flight from Melbourne to Cairns in (a budget airline's) business class. Cruised at 43k. Excellent plane and love the "electrochromism smart glass" window shades :-)

casper
Nov 16, 2013, 4:27 AM
Yeah we will see.... YVR-FRA is definitely the worst kept secret... LOL. I was thinking that might actually get delayed when LH announced boosting YVR-FRA to a 744 though.

You have to keep in mind that Lufthansa and Air Canada operate the flights into FRA as a joint venture They co-ordinate all of the timing and number of seats.

Just had my first trip on the 787 this morning. A 3 hour flight from Melbourne to Cairns in (a budget airline's) business class. Cruised at 43k. Excellent plane and love the "electrochromism smart glass" window shades :-)

I really enjoyed Cairns. Hope to go back someday,

Johnny Aussie
Nov 16, 2013, 5:31 AM
You have to keep in mind that Lufthansa and Air Canada operate the flights into FRA as a joint venture They co-ordinate all of the timing and number of seats.

I really enjoyed Cairns. Hope to go back someday.

Yup. I know AC want (wanted) to do their own YVR-FRA flight. It is on their definite list of possible new routes. But then along came YVR-MUC... a similar market and route... then along came LH upping its YVR-FRA to be a 744... So with the JV it is really irrelevant (to a point) who operates it. So my point was I am (was) expecting AC to start its own YVR-FRA flights... but with LH's recent developments not as sure as I was a few months ago. Something will be announced soon regarding the 787s.

Cairns and region is my fave part of Queensland... nice to live in a country where you can travel to the tropics without a passport :P

connect2source
Nov 17, 2013, 10:56 PM
YVR Domestic Terminal B Pier construction well underway, taken from the observaton area.

Looks like the hammerhead area might be our last glimpse into the past at YVR if it's retained, even though the hammerhead was added in the late 1970's.

Photo By : connect2source
http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag130/Dean_Ellison/YVRBPier_zps8be007f1.jpg

SteveK
Nov 17, 2013, 11:33 PM
YVR Domestic Terminal B Pier construction well underway, taken from the observaton area.

Looks like the hammerhead area might be our last glimpse into the past at YVR if it's retained, even though the hammerhead was added in the late 1970's.


Thought the plan was to replace the hammerhead area as well, once the current construction is completed. Is that correct?

Also, does anyone know if Westjet has plans for a more purpose built gate area for their Encore operations - similar to AC Express?

Johnny Aussie
Nov 17, 2013, 11:44 PM
Thought the plan was to replace the hammerhead area as well, once the current construction is completed. Is that correct?

Also, does anyone know if Westjet has plans for a more purpose built gate area for their Encore operations - similar to AC Express?

Funny but this whole A/B reconstruction still seems to be a bit of a mystery!

There do not appear to be any renderings or details about the expansion other than a really vague 21 second youtube video with about 5 photos in it.

If anyone has any more detail on this please post it.

connect2source
Nov 18, 2013, 3:29 AM
Funny but this whole A/B reconstruction still seems to be a bit mystery!

There do not appear to be any renderings or details about the expansion other than a really vague 21 second youtube video with about 5 photos in it.

If anyone has any more detail on this please post it.

The C Pier was equally mysterious, I remember finding the only a photo of the model on the PCL construction website. Wonder why they keep us so in the dark?

Gordon
Nov 18, 2013, 4:57 AM
I suspect ther is space to add more gates for encore where the current 3 gates are?

moosejaw
Nov 18, 2013, 1:12 PM
Funny but this whole A/B reconstruction still seems to be a bit mystery!

There do not appear to be any renderings or details about the expansion other than a really vague 21 second youtube video with about 5 photos in it.

If anyone has any more detail on this please post it.

Agree
I would like to see plans, schematics etc...

Cage
Nov 18, 2013, 4:40 PM
I suspect there is space to add more gates for encore where the current 3 gates are?

Yes there is limited space to add additional express gates around the area of A4-5-6. Going on my memory from Air BC days (when they operated from the old gate 7 area) the power plant (building located beside the commuter stands) is the limiting factor in further extension of concourse A.

However once the A/B refit is complete, there will be more than enough gates fro Westjet to handle their Encore operations.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 19, 2013, 8:56 PM
From 19 December through January 7 US Airways will be flying 3 times daily to PHX (except 25/26 December). The added flight is a daily 319 at 0600. Not sure when that popped up but didn't see it earlier.

Also on 1 Feb the morning flight ops as a 321 and then there is another third flight (looks like a one-off) on 15 Feb.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 19, 2013, 9:19 PM
Allegedly (cannot find an actual confirmation yet) Canada and Taiwan have signed a new air bilateral effective immediately.

Taiwanese airlines have had their cap on weekly passenger flights lifted from 13 to 17. This further increases to 21 in November 2015.

So now of course the speculation of where these additional frequencies will go, if they are in fact used.

Right now China Airlines has 7 for the YVR-TPE route and EVA Air has 3 each on YVR-TPE and YYZ-TPE. Since EVA is now Star Alliance... hmmmmm.

So will BR go daily YVR or daily YYZ or?

nname
Nov 19, 2013, 10:12 PM
Right now China Airlines has 7 for the YVR-TPE route and EVA Air has 3 each on YVR-TPE and YYZ-TPE. Since EVA is now Star Alliance... hmmmmm.

So will BR go daily YVR or daily YYZ or?

Well, BR is phasing out the 744s within the next 3 years, so maybe there will be an increase of frequency to compensate the loss of capacity when switching to the 777?

casper
Nov 19, 2013, 11:25 PM
.

Right now China Airlines has 7 for the YVR-TPE route and EVA Air has 3 each on YVR-TPE and YYZ-TPE. Since EVA is now Star Alliance... hmmmmm.

So will BR go daily YVR or daily YYZ or?

Hopefully EVA and AC are playing nice with each again now that EVA is in SA.

For several years AC would code-share on the EVA flight to Vancouver. It was a fairly weird code-share in that you were able to reserve seats through AC but it was limited to a certain block of seats in one part of the aircraft. Flew the AC code share a few times. I believe AC dropped the code-share when they started to fly to Toronto, not certain why.

It has been a few years, however I remember both the EVA and China Airlines flight scheduled to depart TPE within and hour of each other and arriving at Vancouver at virtually the same time, back then it was around 10pm. Not certain now.

zahav
Nov 20, 2013, 6:44 AM
I shouldn't really be posting these, but I took these photos from documents at work. There are so many drawings, but no real good nice renderings (airports aren't like condos, the plans are usually very mechanical and focus on materials and floor plans, not pretty graphics). Anyways, I'll post some other soon..

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/its_me_josh1zahav84/IMG_3671_zps87be718f.jpg (http://s1020.photobucket.com/user/its_me_josh1zahav84/media/IMG_3671_zps87be718f.jpg.html)

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/its_me_josh1zahav84/IMG_3670_zps46751f34.jpg (http://s1020.photobucket.com/user/its_me_josh1zahav84/media/IMG_3670_zps46751f34.jpg.html)

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/its_me_josh1zahav84/IMG_3669_zpsacfa0917.jpg (http://s1020.photobucket.com/user/its_me_josh1zahav84/media/IMG_3669_zpsacfa0917.jpg.html)

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/its_me_josh1zahav84/IMG_3668_zps43ca4369.jpg (http://s1020.photobucket.com/user/its_me_josh1zahav84/media/IMG_3668_zps43ca4369.jpg.html)

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/its_me_josh1zahav84/IMG_3672_zpsbcb31188.jpg (http://s1020.photobucket.com/user/its_me_josh1zahav84/media/IMG_3672_zpsbcb31188.jpg.html)

Johnny Aussie
Nov 20, 2013, 6:59 AM
I shouldn't really be posting these, but I took these photos from documents at work. There are so many drawings, but no real good nice renderings (airports aren't like condos, the plans are usually very mechanical and focus on materials and floor plans, not pretty graphics). Anyways, I'll post some other soon..

Oh man! That is brilliant. Well done.. I won't tell!

Finally some decent plans to get an idea of what is actually going on.

Many thanks buddy.

trofirhen
Nov 20, 2013, 8:07 AM
I found this in the Vancouver Sun: an article featuring YVR, with Calin
Rovinescu explaining why more international carriers should NOT be allowed into YVR, and how AC only has the power to turn it into a real hub, etc etc.

True? Falsely protectionist? Readers may decide. Thank you. :)

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Open+Skies+could+turn+into+carriers+stub/9178893/story.html

Johnny Aussie
Nov 20, 2013, 8:16 AM
I found this in the Vancouver Sun: an article featuring YVR, with Calin
Rovinescu explaining why more international carriers should NOT be allowed into YVR, and how AC only has the power to turn it into a real hub, etc etc.

True? Falsely protectionist? Readers may decide. Thank you. :)

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Open+Skies+could+turn+into+carriers+stub/9178893/story.html

AC the only airline that can turn YVR into a true hub... but are they? Will they?

And then one day later talking about turning YYZ into a truly global hub.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/air-canada-plans-to-make-torontos-pearson-airport-an-international-hub/article15516226

A country the size of Canada and an airline the size of Air Canada... can't really have both now can we?

His words don't = his actions now do they.

trofirhen
Nov 20, 2013, 2:00 PM
AC the only airline that can turn YVR into a true hub... but are they? Will they?

And then one day later talking about turning YYZ into a truly global hub.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/air-canada-plans-to-make-torontos-pearson-airport-an-international-hub/article15516226

A country the size of Canada and an airline the size of Air Canada... can't really have both now can we?

His words don't = his actions now do they.

Thank you!! Thank you!! My thoughts exactly. (more of the same protectionism to benefit T.O.; wrapped in a plastic national flag)

connect2source
Nov 20, 2013, 2:55 PM
Wow thanks for the spy-work Zahav!!

In the first two photos of the drawings, it looks as though the hammerhead is staying, for now. Mixed feeling as the pier will lack cohesion but it'll be nice to see a small bit of the original domestic terminal retained.

Gordon
Nov 20, 2013, 3:59 PM
thanks for the Pier a\B drawings zahav. the drawings don't show the WestJet Encore Area. more gates wil be phased in as their service It will likely be a while before they need more than 3 gates(A5,6&7)

AC is the dominant carrier at YVR . Canada is too large a country to have only 1 hub.
The airport authority should focus on growing our current international carriers as opposed to Emirates.

does anyone have any idea When the 1st phase of the the Pier A\B connector will be open?

Johnny Aussie
Nov 20, 2013, 7:39 PM
thanks for the Pier a\B drawings zahav. the drawings don't show the WestJet Encore Area. more gates wil be phased in as their service It will likely be a while before they need more than 3 gates(A5,6&7)

AC is the dominant carrier at YVR . Canada is too large a country to have only 1 hub.
The airport authority should focus on growing our current international carriers as opposed to Emirates.

Where is the Encore area anyway?

Agree Canada is too large a country to have just one hub but they won't do anything to jeopardise the YYZ hub. And that's just business. I never play the poor YVR card but in Rovinescu's latest series of speeches he talks about AC being the only airline that can truly develop YVR as a hub, therefore not supporting YVR's desire for more open skies bilaterals. Then goes on to talk about developing YYZ as an even more major global hub. So his intentions for YVR will not come at the expense of YYZ like it or not. As always we will just have to wait and see how this plays out over the next couple of years.

I think the airport authority should continue to focus on growing the current international carriers AND pursue others like ANA and Asiana.

Gordon
Nov 20, 2013, 7:59 PM
I think the major hub for yyz May be targeting the North eastern U.S.

I Suspect Mr Robinescu probably realizes that one hub for country the size of Canada is not workable because his airline would lose Western traffic to U.S. Coastal gateways.

YYCguys
Nov 20, 2013, 8:06 PM
The Encore area is currently operating out of Gates A5, A6, and A7 at the end of the A pier. They are ground loading stands.

A1 has disappeared to make room for the lounge, and wonder if it will re-appear after the expansion/renovation is complete.

nname
Nov 20, 2013, 8:22 PM
From the terminal diagram, seems like they will renumber the gates, from East to West on the south side:

A7 -> A1
A6 -> A2
A5 -> A3
A4 -> A4
A3 -> A5
A2 -> A6
New -> A7
New -> A8
New -> A9
New -> A10
B12 -> Removed??
B16 -> B16
B18 -> B18
B20 -> B20

The north side is unchanged:
B11, B15, B17

deasine
Nov 21, 2013, 12:11 AM
Wow zahav, thanks for the update! Do you know what YVR is doing with the "arrivals" level? Based on the renderings, the new piers had a level/bridge above the departures area connected to the gates. I suspend that this allowed for int'l flights in the future should they be supported and would allow YVR to reconfigure its airport operations potentially based on airline/alliance rather than based on destination (with the exception of transborder flights which would need a separate area given they have their own customs/procedures).

casper
Nov 21, 2013, 5:05 AM
AC the only airline that can turn YVR into a true hub... but are they? Will they?

And then one day later talking about turning YYZ into a truly global hub.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/air-canada-plans-to-make-torontos-pearson-airport-an-international-hub/article15516226

A country the size of Canada and an airline the size of Air Canada... can't really have both now can we?

His words don't = his actions now do they.

I don't think Air Canada is playing favorites between YYZ and YVR. From the eastern US they create more competitive (i.e., shorter travel time) routing to Asia through Toronto. They are trying to compete with Asian and US airlines. They are going to build up YYZ to serve those markets if they can fill the planes. For many of the secondary markets in Asia Toronto does not work. Toronto is also not an ideal transfer point for the western US.

For the secondary citiies in Asia, YVR is idea to connect to all of North America.

If YVR wants to be an international hub, it is silly for them to chase after flights to the middle east over the Atlantic. I think Air Canada is correct, there little strategic benefit to chase after open skies with the middle east airlines. Why would anyone in North American fly to the pacific coast to transfer onto an eastern bound flight. Those flights are just going to undermine the flights to Asia and Europe by AC or anyone else.

If YVR is chasing after South and Central American airlines, and marketing YVR as a transfer point to Asia, that is a positive move. If Air Canada wants to play in that market, cool, if not then they should try to get LAN and COPA etc.

If YVR is chasing after Asian airlines or Russian airlines and marketing it as a transfer point to the Americas that is also a positive move.

ACT7
Nov 21, 2013, 5:24 AM
The truth is, Rovinescu is not wrong about needing a domestic carrier to build a true hub. That's a true statement. The question is whether or not AC will actually do this. Maybe, maybe not. One has to be careful with AC's definition of a Canadian hub (ex YYZ) because if you really look at the destinations that AC serves out of YVR, there are only 8 international destinations (one additional seasonal one), 8 transborder (two operated by Jazz and two additional seasonal routes), and only 6 non-BC domestic routes. The rest are by and large Jazz-operated provincial destinations. By any definition of the word 'hub', this is not one.

YVR should continue to pursue other airlines, no question, but until a domestic carrier invests a substantial portion of its operations into the airport, it will forever be a mid-size focus city.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 21, 2013, 6:04 AM
For the secondary citiies in Asia, YVR is idea to connect to all of North America.

If YVR wants to be an international hub, it is silly for them to chase after flights to the middle east over the Atlantic. I think Air Canada is correct, there little strategic benefit to chase after open skies with the middle east airlines. Why would anyone in North American fly to the pacific coast to transfer onto an eastern bound flight. Those flights are just going to undermine the flights to Asia and Europe by AC or anyone else.

If YVR is chasing after South and Central American airlines, and marketing YVR as a transfer point to Asia, that is a positive move. If Air Canada wants to play in that market, cool, if not then they should try to get LAN and COPA etc.

If YVR is chasing after Asian airlines or Russian airlines and marketing it as a transfer point to the Americas that is also a positive move.

Agree with you on these statements for sure. So tired of hearing them bring up the Emirates issue over and over. Focus on getting more links with the likes of Asiana and ANA and to more secondary Chinese cities. Secondary in China meaning many cities bigger than anywhere in Canada!

YVR as we know offers a pretty impressive list of international airlines, routes etc for a city it's size.

Hot Rod
Nov 21, 2013, 10:43 AM
and other cities in Asia not currently served:

Osaka
Nagoya? or Fukuoka (love FUK :) )
Kaohsiung
Busan
Saigon
Bangkok
Singapore
KL
Jakarta
Melbourne

CHINA
Chongqing - definitely the next major grab from China since it is the only first tier city not served by YVR (after PEK, PVG, CAN)
Xiamen
Huangzhou
Kunming
Wuhan?
Nanning maybe?
Xian maybe?

I think after that it starts to get limited for 2nd tier cities that could support Int'l nonstop.

twoNeurons
Nov 21, 2013, 9:10 PM
and other cities in Asia not currently served:

Osaka
Nagoya? or Fukuoka (love FUK :) )
Kaohsiung
Busan
Saigon
Bangkok
Singapore
KL
Jakarta
Melbourne

CHINA
Chongqing - definitely the next major grab from China since it is the only first tier city not served by YVR (after PEK, PVG, CAN)
Xiamen
Huangzhou
Kunming
Wuhan?
Nanning maybe?
Xian maybe?

I think after that it starts to get limited for 2nd tier cities that could support Int'l nonstop.

How about a direct seasonal flight to Naha, Saipan or Guam? :D

zahav
Nov 22, 2013, 7:07 AM
No problem, i'm glad i could share, I will have more as well, just have to get to taking more. Actually regarding gate renumbering, the plan is to classify all of the Encore ground loading positions as 'A' gates, and all of the jet bridge gates (including the current gates A2,A3,A4 as well as the B gates) will now all be branded 'B' gates, so the A and B piers will now essentially be treated as one space, and no longer separate piers

Gordon
Nov 22, 2013, 1:59 PM
Does it how many Encore positions there will be when the expansion is complete?

Will they be using the glass walled bridges as the have on the most recent additions to the international terminal?

zahav
Nov 22, 2013, 4:05 PM
I will have to check on if the bridges are glsss or not, but yes it accounts for Encore expansion by dedicating all "A" gates to it, so its endless (A1,A2,A3 etc all for Encore; all jet bridges star at "B")

YYCspotter
Nov 23, 2013, 1:20 AM
rumour over on airliners.net that ANA will start HND-YVR on March 30 with the 767-300. Will be a joint venture with AC.

Denscity
Nov 23, 2013, 1:36 AM
rumour over on airliners.net that ANA will start HND-YVR on March 30 with the 767-300. Will be a joint venture with AC.

Oh nice. Is this a new flight for YVR or has this one come back from a hiatus?

Johnny Aussie
Nov 23, 2013, 1:41 AM
Oh nice. Is this a new flight for YVR or has this one come back from a hiatus?

This answers the question of the Canada awarded slots to All Nippon doesn't it?

This is all in line with what I posted a few weeks back.

AC will do YYZ-NRT and YYZ-HND (actually unsure if HND to replace NRT).
AC will do YVR-NRT and NH will do YVR-HND. Remember a couple of years back AC was going to start YVR-HND as an addition to YVR-NRT.

I would expect AC to downgauge YVR-NRT to at least a 333 or 763 for the summer, 763 for winter as it normally would be.

So if (when) this becomes official, this will be YVR's 20th foreign carrier (excluding US carriers of course).

Now just waiting on Asiana!

deasine
Nov 23, 2013, 1:50 AM
The YVR-HND NH flights were also (briefly) discussed earlier in this thread a couple pages back. NH received one slot to operate to Canada from HND after the recent slot-releases at the airport, and it would be in NHs interest to operate to a Canadian destination not duplicating AC services in order to secure its slot from being released to JL (who wasn't very happy in the last HND slot-release).

I received the following email of interest. I believe this eGate is the first in Canada.

CATSA eGate at Vancouver International Airport

NEXUS members travelling through Vancouver International Airport’s domestic north checkpoint may notice a new procedure for validating NEXUS cards. CATSA is piloting an eGate that will verify your membership card and boarding pass electronically.

The eGate is positioned at the front of the Trusted Traveller screening line. It uses a touch screen that will prompt you to scan your boarding pass and NEXUS card to gain access to the screening area.
Source: NEXUS

Johnny Aussie
Nov 23, 2013, 1:57 AM
..... being released to JL (who wasn't very happy in the last HND slot-release).

No they weren't. To the point of pursuing potential legal action over it.

This will no doubt upset JAL.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 23, 2013, 5:26 AM
Perhaps an ANA announcement will coincide with the BC Premier's trade mission to Asia.

China, Korea and Japan on the itinerary.

http://www.biv.com/article/20131121/BIV0113/131129979/clark-departs-for-jobs-and-trade-mission-in-asia

Denscity
Nov 23, 2013, 6:29 PM
This answers the question of the Canada awarded slots to All Nippon doesn't it?

This is all in line with what I posted a few weeks back.

AC will do YYZ-NRT and YYZ-HND (actually unsure if HND to replace NRT).
AC will do YVR-NRT and NH will do YVR-HND. Remember a couple of years back AC was going to start YVR-HND as an addition to YVR-NRT.

I would expect AC to downgauge YVR-NRT to at least a 333 or 763 for the summer, 763 for winter as it normally would be.

So if (when) this becomes official, this will be YVR's 20th foreign carrier (excluding US carriers of course).

Now just waiting on Asiana!

That is awesome!! :cheers:

trofirhen
Nov 23, 2013, 8:46 PM
So if (when) this becomes official, this will be YVR's 20th foreign carrier (excluding US carriers of course).

Now just waiting on Asiana!
Are all 20 foreign carriers year-round scheduled, or are some seasonal?
And may I ask what all these carriers are?
Some are obvious, others less so. (From over here, at any rate!)
Thank you. :)

SpongeG
Nov 23, 2013, 9:00 PM
air china
air new zealand
All Nippon Airways
british airways
cathay pacific
china airlines
china eastern airlines
china southern airlines
EVA Air
Japan Airlines
KLM
Korean Air
Lufthansa
Philippine Airlines
Scandinavian Airlines SAS (seasonal??)
Sichuan Airlines

condor (seasonal)
Edelweiss Air (seasonal)
Icelandair (seasonal)
Virgin Atlantic (seasonal)

http://yvr.ca/en/flight-information/destinations.aspx

cool pic

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZI9yjaCYAAUKAA.jpg:large
pic.twitter.com/V4S7550OZy

SpongeG
Nov 23, 2013, 9:05 PM
video of larry berg flight park at link

http://yvr.ca/en/blog/posts/Larry_Berg_Flight_Path_Park_Fast_Becoming_Community_Gathering_Place.aspx

http://vimeo.com/79996286

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BV_d5-PCQAAvyXA.jpg:large
pic.twitter.com/g56b01tlMN

SpongeG
Nov 23, 2013, 9:37 PM
It's apropos of nothing, but I'm taking the biggest flight of my life later this week:

YVR-LHR-JNB

33,294km/20,688 miles round trip. I'm taking BA 744s for both legs.

is that vancouver - london - johannesburg?

when i was a kid we did that flight a couple times - I don't remember the exact routes but we had a number of stops on the way

we flew vancouver - london and also vancouver - frankfurt - we stopped in lisbon and kenya on one of those trips i can't remember

the last time i flew i flew via the states and then to london - johannesburg direct - landing in joburg is so amazing flying over africa was awesome too - it was weird leaving london in the cold and arriving in the heat

Johnny Aussie
Nov 23, 2013, 10:51 PM
[QUOTE=SpongeG;6350655][/QUOTE

Great list... However remove SAS from that list. Don't know why it's on there as SAS does not fly to Copenhagen from YVR... Unless of course... something in the works? Doubtful at best.

Anyway, I just realised ANA would be #19 not #20. Whoops... I have lost all credibility :P

I guess I was pre-empting Asiana being #20 if that actually happens as well, instead of, or in case neither actually happen. I always like to add the proviso - until anything is official just have to wait and see!

Another reason I don't think AC will drop YVR-NRT in relation to the YVR-HND on ANA is ANA are allegedly going to be using a 763. In the summer months, that would be way too little capacity.

Like I said a few posts above, perhaps the BC Premier's visit to China, (South) Korea and Japan will coincide with an announcement or two?

trofirhen
Nov 23, 2013, 11:02 PM
With the advent of the 787, might we ever get Singapore back?

Johnny Aussie
Nov 24, 2013, 12:19 AM
With the advent of the 787, might we ever get Singapore back?

Same as my comment for SAS - unlikely at best.

SpongeG
Nov 24, 2013, 4:24 PM
SAS is listed on YVR's own website - lol

that is where i copied the list from...

Johnny Aussie
Nov 24, 2013, 8:46 PM
SAS is listed on YVR's own website - lol

that is where i copied the list from...

Yeah, sorry that it was I meant from my comment... not sure why it was on their list.

cyeg66
Nov 24, 2013, 8:59 PM
Nice work on the L B flight path park. I'm diggin' it.

trofirhen
Nov 24, 2013, 9:20 PM
SAS is listed on YVR's own website - lol

that is where i copied the list from...
I've noticed that, too. Funny thing about SAS. Until a short while or so back, they had four North American destinations. (Montreal was dropped some years ago, and perhaps curiously, they aren't into YYZ yet, but that's in the works, no doubt, their being Star Alliance)

Anyway the four US destinations were, New York, Washington, Chicago, and Seattle (given its preponderant Scandinavian population base)
Apparently they had always flown full between Sea-Tac and Kastrup, but my only conclusion is that the yield factor wasn't there ... a.k.a. Not Enough Business Class Tickets.

This may seem normal at first, with the Seattle concentration of high-tech industries of many sorts, (complemented by Swedish industrial expertise),
medical institutions and research (viz; The Swedish Hospital), the Deaprtment of Scqndinavian Studies at
the main university, ... this was evidence enough for sufficient business travel, and thus a sufficient profit margin, but it was not.

Perhaps with its three remaining NA destinations, they advertise a lot to try and draw connecting customers or some such idea.

Still, I found it off-kilter that they should be listed under airlines serving YVR. Chances are they paid extra to have themselves listed here. :uhh:

Klazu
Nov 25, 2013, 12:59 AM
My wife is flying to Sydney for two weeks on business this coming Thursday. She will be flying business class via Hong Kong on Cathay Pacific, which must be nice despite the 25 hour trip... Personally I would have opted for the route via LAX, trying the Qantas A380 business class, but she rather chose Hong Kong (same trip length).

Anyways, we are collecting miles on One World and find it strange that Qantas doesn't fly to Vancouver anymore. I do wonder what was the reason for them dropping the connection, considering how many Ozzies travel to Canada and vice versa. The question came to my mind yesterday while skiing in Whistler and seeing so many seasonal workers from Australia.

deasine
Nov 25, 2013, 1:19 AM
SAS is listed on YVR's own website - lol

that is where i copied the list from...

Yeah, sorry that it was I meant from my comment... not sure why it was on their list.

The list includes codeshares. You'll notice Asiana and ANA are listed there despite not flying here (yet).

My wife is flying to Sydney for two weeks on business this coming Thursday. She will be flying business class via Hong Kong on Cathay Pacific, which must be nice despite the 25 hour trip... Personally I would have opted for the route via LAX, trying the Qantas A380 business class, but she rather chose Hong Kong (same trip length).

Anyways, we are collecting miles on One World and find it strange that Qantas doesn't fly to Vancouver anymore. I do wonder what was the reason for them dropping the connection, considering how many Ozzies travel to Canada and vice versa. The question came to my mind yesterday while skiing in Whistler and seeing so many seasonal workers from Australia.

They did fly here but suspended the route. Yields is a problem, but keep in mind, that's not the only problem airlines face. There's the issue of connectivity: given that there's not enough O&D, there needs to be enough connection options and YVR doesn't offer that compared to gateways such as LAX and DFW. Even SFO was dropped over DFW as AA offered many more connection options compared to SFO. I'm surprised QF still runs the route from LAX to JFK honestly, but I guess there might be enough premium demand to support the continued tag to JFK.

Having flown QF A380 in J, I think their Skybeds are alright, but I would choose CX over QF. CX and their reverse herringbone product is much more comfortable and private over QF. Plus at LAX, you will be experiencing a mediocre short-haul product to return to YVR, whereas the HKG option has the same premium long-haul product.



I've noticed that, too. Funny thing about SAS. Until a short while or so back, they had four North American destinations. (Montreal was dropped some years ago, and perhaps curiously, they aren't into YYZ yet, but that's in the works, no doubt, their being Star Alliance)

Anyway the four US destinations were, New York, Washington, Chicago, and Seattle (given its preponderant Scandinavian population base)
Apparently they had always flown full between Sea-Tac and Kastrup, but my only conclusion is that the yield factor wasn't there ... a.k.a. Not Enough Business Class Tickets.

This may seem normal at first, with the Seattle concentration of high-tech industries of many sorts, (complemented by Swedish industrial expertise),
medical institutions and research (viz; The Swedish Hospital), the Deaprtment of Scqndinavian Studies at
the main university, ... this was evidence enough for sufficient business travel, and thus a sufficient profit margin, but it was not.

Perhaps with its three remaining NA destinations, they advertise a lot to try and draw connecting customers or some such idea.

Still, I found it off-kilter that they should be listed under airlines serving YVR. Chances are they paid extra to have themselves listed here. :uhh:

There's yields, but the other issue is competition and cost. SAS has one of the highest cost in operation amongst the European carriers. Let's not look at the Gulf state carriers and LCCs, but SAS can't even compete against Lufthansa because of its high cost and many of the historical and politically motivated legacies that govern the airline (i.e. having to staff each route with flight attendants from Sweden, Copenhagen, and Norway). Given their high costs, it just doesn't make sense to keep so many long-haul routes.

I wouldn't be surprised if SAS considers joining the A++ joint venture and just codeshare on Lufthansa, United, and Air Canada routes in the future. Finnair recently jointed the American/British Airways Atlantic joint venture, and it might be in the best interest of SAS to do the same to remain competitive with (1) Finnair, but (2) offer more North American destinations without using its own metal to compete with Norwegian, which has a much lower cost operation (albeit they also operate on a much lower frequency).

Johnny Aussie
Nov 25, 2013, 1:20 AM
Anyways, we are collecting miles on One World and find it strange that Qantas doesn't fly to Vancouver anymore. I do wonder what was the reason for them dropping the connection, considering how many Ozzies travel to Canada and vice versa. The question came to my mind yesterday while skiing in Whistler and seeing so many seasonal workers from Australia.

You just answered your own question: seasonal workers = lower yielding traffic and seasonal. Air Canada seems to do rather ok though.

If you were Star Alliance I would highly recommend the AC non-stop YVR-SYD or an excellent alternative YVR-AKL-SYD on Air New Zealand. But being One World CX is my fave in that alliance.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 25, 2013, 1:23 AM
The list includes codeshares.

And certainly not a complete list of code-share airlines otherwise the list would be sooo much longer.

Klazu
Nov 25, 2013, 1:49 AM
Having flown QF A380 in J, I think their Skybeds are alright, but I would choose CX over QF. CX and their reverse herringbone product is much more comfortable and private over QF. Plus at LAX, you will be experiencing a mediocre short-haul product to return to YVR, whereas the HKG option has the same premium long-haul product.

Yeah, the Hong Kong route definitely has advantage in terms of quality and having not flown CX yet, it would be interesting to try out as well. But since I haven't yet flown A380 either, I would have given it priority. That being if I would even be the traveler here instead of my wife. :P

You just answered your own question: seasonal workers = lower yielding traffic and seasonal. Air Canada seems to do rather ok though.

Whistler is of course a seasonal destination, but do Australia - Canada passanger numbers have strong peaks during seasons? I have no figures, but it just feels like there are lots of Aussies in BC year round, not to mention the chances to have connecting flights elsewhere in Canada. Of course the problem would be that there is no One World partner up here.

If you were Star Alliance I would highly recommend the AC non-stop YVR-SYD or an excellent alternative YVR-AKL-SYD on Air New Zealand. But being One World CX is my fave in that alliance.

Those would be great routes as well and we have Lufthansa card as our secondary card. Lufthansa is just so expensive compared to British Airways (our number one card) that there is never a chance to redeem miles acquired on Star Alliance flights. Also, BA's option to have a family card is pretty nice bonus. :)

deasine
Nov 25, 2013, 1:55 AM
Yeah, the Hong Kong route definitely has advantage in terms of quality and having not flown CX yet, it would be interesting to try out as well. But since I haven't yet flown A380 either, I would have given it priority. That being if I would even be the traveler here instead of my wife. :P

It was the only reason why I chose to fly QF over BA when I went to SIN from Australia. The lounge area on the flight is nice, being able to walk up and hang around an area outside of your seat was a great plus. One thing I really don't like is the curvature of the aircraft prevents you from getting a good view of the window in J. But this is totally beyond #firstworldproblems

Whistler is of course a seasonal destination, but do Australia - Canada passanger numbers have strong peaks during seasons? I have no figures, but it just feels like there are lots of Aussies in BC year round, not to mention the chances to have connecting flights elsewhere in Canada. Of course the problem would be that there is no One World partner up here.

AC adds an additional 3-weekly YVR-SYD flights (on top of their daily YYZ-YVR-SYD flights) during the winter periods. So yes, there is quite a bit of demand, and enough demand during the "low periods" to sustain a daily SYD flight. What's good about flights to the Southern Hemisphere, especially in commerce capitals, is there is generally an even distributed number of passengers throughout the entire season. In the summer months for the Northern Hemisphere, there is a good leisure demand going to Australia, whereas in the Winter months for the Northern Hemisphere (summer for southern), the traffic demand reverses. A lot of problems with airlines is demand is only seasonal, and one-way. India is a very good example of this: they have huge demands from YVR during the winter months before Christmas, but demand after drops significantly and the economics don't favor a direct flight to work. But AC definitely doesn't have this problems with SYD.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 25, 2013, 3:59 AM
AC adds an additional 3-weekly YVR-SYD flights (on top of their daily YYZ-YVR-SYD flights) during the winter periods.

This doesn't appear to be happening this winter. It still looks like only one daily even for peak winter.

Interesting fact looking at Australian stats. Air Canada had the #1 load factor of any airline outbound from Australia for the month of August 2013.
It was 94.5%. Inbound not quite as high, but a fantastic result from Air Canada. I'll be on AC34 once again very very soon :-)

deasine
Nov 25, 2013, 4:20 AM
This doesn't appear to be happening this winter. It still looks like only one daily even for peak winter.


I suspect an unannounced 777-300ER HD fleet change to make up for the additional capacity ;) Just kidding :P

Cage
Nov 25, 2013, 4:50 PM
My wife is flying to Sydney for two weeks on business this coming Thursday. She will be flying business class via Hong Kong on Cathay Pacific, which must be nice despite the 25 hour trip... Personally I would have opted for the route via LAX, trying the Qantas A380 business class, but she rather chose Hong Kong (same trip length).

Anyways, we are collecting miles on One World and find it strange that Qantas doesn't fly to Vancouver anymore. I do wonder what was the reason for them dropping the connection, considering how many Ozzies travel to Canada and vice versa. The question came to my mind yesterday while skiing in Whistler and seeing so many seasonal workers from Australia.

Primary reason for no QF in YVR is lack of suitable equipment for the mission. If QF had the 77L they would be in YVR.

Infact lack of a midsize airplane to fly ULH routes is QF major problem right now, they bet too heavily on 744 and 380.

Secondary reason for no QF on YVR-SYD is mentioned in your post. There are just too many stopover and connection options that compete with the nonstop service.

trofirhen
Nov 25, 2013, 7:40 PM
Primary reason for no QF in YVR is lack of suitable equipment for the mission. If QF had the 77L they would be in YVR.

Infact lack of a midsize airplane to fly ULH routes is QF major problem right now, they bet too heavily on 744 and 380.

Secondary reason for no QF on YVR-SYD is mentioned in your post. There are just too many stopover and connection options that compete with the nonstop service.
How I would love to see a YVR - MEL nonstop run, whichever airline operated it .......
(That, in addition to Brisbane, which is slated to come onstream with AC next year)

Kapten
Nov 25, 2013, 9:33 PM
How I would love to see a YVR - MEL nonstop run, whichever airline operated it .......
(That, in addition to Brisbane, which is slated to come onstream with AC next year)

I wonder if YVR-PER is being considered by Quantas or Air Canada? It would be a major coup for YVR to provide the first nonstop North American service to/from Perth, which is the 4th largest Australian city.

Bigtime
Nov 25, 2013, 9:36 PM
I wonder if YVR-PER is being considered by Quantas or Air Canada? It would be a major coup for YVR to provide the first nonstop North American service to/from Perth, which is the 4th largest Australian city.

Qantas.


;)

Kapten
Nov 25, 2013, 9:44 PM
Qantas.


;)

Quantas is considering this route? Are they also planning to add YYZ-PER when they get planes with more range...?

Denscity
Nov 25, 2013, 9:48 PM
Qantas.


;)

Oh some inside info? It'd be great to add/have back another international airline.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 25, 2013, 10:05 PM
Oh some inside info? It'd be great to add/have back another international airline.

OK calm down... Bigtime was taking the piss (Aussie term for pulling your leg)

He was referring to the spelling of Quantas s/b Qantas. No U in Qantas.

Having said that, YVR-PER or YYZ-PER is even less likely than YVR-CPH and YVR-SIN. I would put in the bottom 10 percentile of even remote plausibilities.

deasine
Nov 25, 2013, 10:09 PM
If any airline can make the economies work for that flight (and I don't mean operating the flight as a loss), I will treat them to dinner.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 25, 2013, 10:12 PM
If any airline can make the economies work for that flight (and I don't mean operating the flight as a loss), I will treat them to dinner.

Hell, I'd go further, I'd clone them and hire them for myself!

OK... seriously. If we are to see any further Canadian-Australia flights outside of the already discussed possibilities of YVR-BNE and YVR-MEL (both have been publicly mentioned by AC over the last couple of years).... the 787s by QF (Qantas)/ JQ (Jetstar) may (repeat MAY) have some credence to do a YVR-East Coast Australia trek.