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trofirhen
Nov 26, 2013, 8:26 AM
...this seems too good to be real, if, in fact, it comes about.
YVR as a link to South America from China. I thought the distances were shorter (and thus more fuel economical) from YYZ. Perhaps not. Hope it works!

http://www.bcbusiness.ca/manufacturing-transport/yvr-looks-into-new-routes-to-china-south-america?utm_source=MagMail&utm_medium=BCBusiness+Newsletter&utm_campaign=BCBusiness+enewsletter+25Nov2013#close

Johnny Aussie
Nov 26, 2013, 10:58 AM
...this seems too good to be real, if, in fact, it comes about.
YVR as a link to South America from China. I thought the distances were shorter (and thus more fuel economical) from YYZ. Perhaps not. Hope it works!

http://www.bcbusiness.ca/manufacturing-transport/yvr-looks-into-new-routes-to-china-south-america?utm_source=MagMail&utm_medium=BCBusiness+Newsletter&utm_campaign=BCBusiness+enewsletter+25Nov2013#close

Putting 2 + 2 together... Hmmm wonder if they are talking about Xiamen Airlines. These are the exact type of carriers YVR SHOULD be pursuing. Wish them all the best in getting them too.

LeftCoaster
Nov 26, 2013, 3:23 PM
If any airline can make the economies work for that flight (and I don't mean operating the flight as a loss), I will treat them to dinner.

There is a fair amount of business between Vancouver and Perth due to the mining industry, but I'd much rather see a Van-SG route, easy connections to Perth from there.

Why do you guys thing Singapore is so far from the realm of possible? SG has great connections and could nab a ton of Australian/Malaysian to Canada travel.

moosejaw
Nov 26, 2013, 3:48 PM
There is a fair amount of business between Vancouver and Perth due to the mining industry, but I'd much rather see a Van-SG route, easy connections to Perth from there.

Why do you guys thing Singapore is so far from the realm of possible? SG has great connections and could nab a ton of Australian/Malaysian to Canada travel.

What was the reason for Singapore Airlines to drop service to YVR a few years back. I assume it was the economy ? Did SA fly to other cities in North America. I saw they dropped their Newark(EWR) flight too (same time as YVR)

Gordon
Nov 26, 2013, 3:56 PM
I thought YVR had a transiting lounge in the overhead walkways leading from the gates to the customs area.

casper
Nov 26, 2013, 4:50 PM
What was the reason for Singapore Airlines to drop service to YVR a few years back. I assume it was the economy ? Did SA fly to other cities in North America. I saw they dropped their Newark(EWR) flight too (same time as YVR)

They flew to Vancouver with a stop in Korea.

Not certain how true it is. However the rumor at the time was that they picked up a large percentage (most?) of their passengers in Korea and the number of passengers originating in Singapore were fairly low. They only had permission for three flights per week. They wanted to increase it to a daily service. The governments (Canada and/or Korea) said no, in order to protect the non-stop route for Air Canada, Korean Airlines and Asiana. The Canadian government offered rights for seven days a week from Singapore but not via Korea. They decided to pull out.


I thought they still served New York, with a stop in Europe.

cyeg66
Nov 26, 2013, 7:04 PM
I thought they still served New York, with a stop in Europe.

I think they do, I saw an A345 (?) the other day SIN-EWR. if so, I think when they first launched it, they had about 180 seats on that behemoth. I also thought they'd canned that route last spring but perhaps they're just routing it elsewhere, as you suggest.

Bigtime
Nov 26, 2013, 7:19 PM
I think they do, I saw an A345 (?) the other day SIN-EWR. if so, I think when they first launched it, they had about 180 seats on that behemoth. I also thought they'd canned that route last spring but perhaps they're just routing it elsewhere, as you suggest.

The last SIN-EWR-SIN flights operated on November 22/23rd.

Cage
Nov 26, 2013, 7:39 PM
They flew to Vancouver with a stop in Korea.

Not certain how true it is. However the rumor at the time was that they picked up a large percentage (most?) of their passengers in Korea and the number of passengers originating in Singapore were fairly low. They only had permission for three flights per week. They wanted to increase it to a daily service. The governments (Canada and/or Korea) said no, in order to protect the non-stop route for Air Canada, Korean Airlines and Asiana. The Canadian government offered rights for seven days a week from Singapore but not via Korea. They decided to pull out.


I thought they still served New York, with a stop in Europe.

Lots of history between Canada and Singapore for airline bilaterals.

The original bilateral allowed for two daily flights between SIN and Canada. YVR was serviced over the pacific with one intermediary point and this point was chosen as ICN. YYZ was services over the atlantic with one intermediary point in Western Europe that excluded LHR. SQ had services through FRA and BHX for a short while.

The European TATL fifth freedom rights that SQ utilized angered both AC and CP, fight ensued that resulted in Canadian government shredding the bilateral to close SQ out of the Canada TATL market. SQ was allowed to a certain number of seats TPAC run. BY the time the bilateral was terminated AC had all ready withdrawn their YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN service.

IF memory serves the bilateral was limited by number of seats and not number of flights. SQ problem with going daily to YVR was they only had 744 as the appropriate fleet for the mission.

The lack of bilateral continued for many years until SQ finally withdrew from the market. Once SQ pulled out of YVR AC came in with YVR-ICN services to compete with Korean.

Todays bilateral is open skies with a twist. Both AC and SQ can fly unlimited flights and seats, but only with nonstop SIN-Canada service. Without the intermediary stop that if at least 5th freedom compliant, SIN-Canada services are not profitable.

Klazu
Nov 26, 2013, 7:50 PM
The last SIN-EWR-SIN flights operated on November 22/23rd.

I remember reading that the World's longest non-stop ultra long-haul is/was between Singapore and New York. Was it perhaps this flight? I remember reading it being something like 17 hours in length... Phew. :slob:

Bigtime
Nov 26, 2013, 7:55 PM
I remember reading that the World's longest non-stop ultra long-haul is/was between Singapore and New York. Was it perhaps this flight? I remember reading it being something like 17 hours in length... Phew. :slob:

Yes that was this flight. In the last few years they changed it to an all business class layout on the A340-500.

The flight that is now the longest non-stop is Qantas operating Sydney-DFW, however it can't always operate the flight back without a fuel stop. To my knowledge the SQ A345 was always able to make the SIN-EWR-SIN no problem.

Some articles on the end of the flight:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2013/11/singapore-airlines

http://life.nationalpost.com/2013/11/22/so-long-long-flight-eulogy-for-a-19-hour-non-stop-from-new-york-to-singapore/

twoNeurons
Nov 26, 2013, 8:00 PM
Primary reason for no QF in YVR is lack of suitable equipment for the mission. If QF had the 77L they would be in YVR.

Infact lack of a midsize airplane to fly ULH routes is QF major problem right now, they bet too heavily on 744 and 380.

Secondary reason for no QF on YVR-SYD is mentioned in your post. There are just too many stopover and connection options that compete with the nonstop service.
Which is essentially why Boeing went with a 787-size plane instead of developing an A380-size.

If ANA uses a 763 to do its rumored YVR-HND route, I wonder if they'd switch to a 787 eventually.

Cage
Nov 26, 2013, 9:38 PM
Which is essentially why Boeing went with a 787-size plane instead of developing an A380-size.

If ANA uses a 763 to do its rumored YVR-HND route, I wonder if they'd switch to a 787 eventually.

Yes ANA will switch to 788 if rumored YVR-HND route is 763 at day one. The 788 will replace all 763 services. Only question is whether the 788 goes to YVR at day 1.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 27, 2013, 3:00 AM
AC has just updated its schedules to PEK for next summer.

PEK is seeing a further bump from 11 weekly now to 2 daily.

AC29 DAILY dep YVR 1150 763
AC27 DAILY dep YVR 2200 763

Looks like Air Canada has "found" slots for this increase. Interesting that has been the argument they have been making for not starting YYC-PEK flights. hmmmm.

Air China still showing 11 weekly on 332s.

YYZ still showing as 10 weekly 77W as well.

Klazu
Nov 27, 2013, 4:53 AM
Yes that was this flight. In the last few years they changed it to an all business class layout on the A340-500.

Wow, that flight was 19 hours and covered 9,525 miles (15,329 km). It's truly amazing how such a large plane can remain in the air that long. :worship:

Getting back to Qantas and YVR, one would think Canada (and YVR) would be a good destination for them considering that Qantas is the "local" airline in Australia and one would think many Australians have Qantas frequent flyer card in the wallets and so also prefer Qantas over other alliance airlines like Air Canada. I know I would, but I guess that's not how airline business works. :rolleyes:

casper
Nov 28, 2013, 4:14 AM
Wow, that flight was 19 hours and covered 9,525 miles (15,329 km). It's truly amazing how such a large plane can remain in the air that long. :worship:


The reason it is an all business class flight is that in order to be able to carry enough fuel to fly for 19 hours they need to reduce weight, that limits the number of passengers that can be carried. They are likely cancelling it because it is not profitable.


Getting back to Qantas and YVR, one would think Canada (and YVR) would be a good destination for them considering that Qantas is the "local" airline in Australia and one would think many Australians have Qantas frequent flyer card in the wallets and so also prefer Qantas over other alliance airlines like Air Canada. I know I would, but I guess that's not how airline business works. :rolleyes:

I think Quants code-shares on Alaska and American Airlines.

deasine
Nov 28, 2013, 4:21 AM
Yes that was this flight. In the last few years they changed it to an all business class layout on the A340-500.

The flight that is now the longest non-stop is Qantas operating Sydney-DFW, however it can't always operate the flight back without a fuel stop. To my knowledge the SQ A345 was always able to make the SIN-EWR-SIN no problem.

Some articles on the end of the flight:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2013/11/singapore-airlines

http://life.nationalpost.com/2013/11/22/so-long-long-flight-eulogy-for-a-19-hour-non-stop-from-new-york-to-singapore/

Aside from fuel costs as a cited issue, there's also word that SQ received many incentives from Airbus to buy back the A340s. Given the significant increases in cost, the deteriorating market for ultra long hauls, and changes to the competition landscape, I think SQ decided to end this flagship route.



Looks like Air Canada has "found" slots for this increase. Interesting that has been the argument they have been making for not starting YYC-PEK flights. hmmmm.


All excuses. Remember AC cited the YEG Icelandair case as one of the reasons for its YEG-LHR cancellations? AC says a lot of stuff.

YYCspotter
Nov 28, 2013, 4:58 AM
AC27 DAILY dep YVR 2200 763

Looks like Air Canada has "found" slots for this increase. Interesting that has been the argument they have been making for not starting YYC-PEK flights. hmmmm.


To be fair, the extra slots they found are for a late evening departure from YVR. I'm guessing AC wants daytime departure slots from YYC if they were to launch PEK. AC must view the daytime departure time more viable for YYC-PEK than a night time departure. but who know whats going on behind the scenes…

craneSpotter
Nov 28, 2013, 5:41 AM
Canada Jetlines: Ultra-low cost carrier being proposed for Western Canada

Financial Post, Nov 27, 2013 (http://business.financialpost.com/2013/11/27/canada-jetlines-ultra-low-cost-carrier-being-proposed-for-western-canada/)

A group of aviation veterans is looking to launch a new ultra-low cost carrier in Vancouver next fall that carries the potential of significantly cutting the cost of travel in Western Canada.

Canada Jetlines Ltd. will fly under the moniker “Jetlines.” It is being launched by aviation veterans Jim Scott and David Solloway as well as Dix Lawson and has garnered the support of the provincial government in B.C.

...Jetlines has already applied for an airline license to operate large aircraft in Canada, according to the Canadian Transportation Agency. It has also negotiated landing slots in both Vancouver and other key airports in Western Canada, according to an investor briefing obtained by the Financial Post.

The plan calls for the airline to launch with two Airbus A319s in the summer of 2014, and expand to 16 aircraft by 2017 using a fleet of A319s and A320s. Jetlines has already hired about 25 people.



Hmm...not sure Canada is ready for a ULCC (or if this has been posted already)...maybe a hard (small) market to crack, but point to point service on underserved routes might just work...along with key interline agreements ;)

Jetlines is to be based on the business models of Allegiant and Spirit Airlines (love Spirit! ,,, the ads anyway). Hopefully if they fly, they are more along the lines of JetBlue, now there's an airline I like!

Denscity
Nov 28, 2013, 5:57 AM
AC has just updated its schedules to PEK for next summer.

PEK is seeing a further bump from 11 weekly now to 2 daily.

AC29 DAILY dep YVR 1150 763
AC27 DAILY dep YVR 2200 763

Looks like Air Canada has "found" slots for this increase. Interesting that has been the argument they have been making for not starting YYC-PEK flights. hmmmm.

Air China still showing 11 weekly on 332s.

YYZ still showing as 10 weekly 77W as well.

Its always good news for YVR from Johnny. :tup:

Johnny Aussie
Nov 28, 2013, 7:36 AM
To be fair, the extra slots they found are for a late evening departure from YVR. I'm guessing AC wants daytime departure slots from YYC if they were to launch PEK. AC must view the daytime departure time more viable for YYC-PEK than a night time departure. but who know whats going on behind the scenes…

To be fair, the additional frequencies are in fact for the daytime flight. The 2200 departure was always daily. The 1150am flight was the 4 x week flight.

I have a feeling there will be a few announcements on the horizon... Not too far away.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 28, 2013, 7:45 AM
Its always good news for YVR from Johnny. :tup:

Well I like to be unbiased so if there is any news that is about a reduction in service I will post that as well. But lately its been pretty much good news I suppose as Asia (mainly China) continues to beef up.

Will see what happens in the next few months with all the rumours flying around... ANA, Asiana, EVA Air, Air Canada 787s.

At least its nice to see this thread has woken up!

Westjet Encore launched Terrace and Kamloops this week.

trofirhen
Nov 28, 2013, 8:33 AM
... about Asiana Airlines, being Korean, would they not add to the Vancouver Seoul route already flown by AC and KAL? If so, would they fly elsewhere, giving access to other connection points? If not, just where would they fly? I'd be interested to see how they'd contribute to the destination network of YVR. Thank you. :)

YYCspotter
Nov 28, 2013, 4:18 PM
To be fair, the additional frequencies are in fact for the daytime flight. The 2200 departure was always daily. The 1150am flight was the 4 x week flight.

I have a feeling there will be a few announcements on the horizon... Not too far away.

I stand corrected. For some reason I always thought the daytime departure was the daily flight. I better be a little more careful before posting next time.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 28, 2013, 5:48 PM
I stand corrected. For some reason I always thought the daytime departure was the daily flight. I better be a little more careful before posting next time.

No problem. I would have assumed that too. The day flight was always daily until they introduced the nighttime departure. AC made that one daily. For some reason though last summer the YVR-PEK day flight was dropped to 4 days per week and Seoul was dropped to 4 days per week while AC had another crack at YYZ-ICN nonstop. YVR-ICN appears to be back to daily next summer (as it is now for the winter anyway) while YYZ-ICN appears to be dropped. But as we all know a lot is going on at AC so nothing is finalised yet anyway.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 28, 2013, 5:54 PM
... about Asiana Airlines, being Korean, would they not add to the Vancouver Seoul route already flown by AC and KAL? If so, would they fly elsewhere, giving access to other connection points? If not, just where would they fly? I'd be interested to see how they'd contribute to the destination network of YVR. Thank you. :)

Yes it would be YVR-ICN. So in addition to AC and KE. So the questions remain.... Will they start flying to YVR? Will this be in addition to AC or will they replace AC?

:shrug:

What Asiana would be after is part of the burgeoning China market (over 20 Chinese destinations and growing). Asiana has an extensive network into China and Incheon Airport is ideally located as a transfer point from North America.

Gordon
Nov 28, 2013, 6:24 PM
Was there not talk of Asiana starting the YVR Haneda route.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 28, 2013, 7:30 PM
Was there not talk of Asiana starting the YVR Haneda route.

That's ANA rumoured to be starting YVR-HND. Not entirely sure if Asiana would even have the rights to do YVR-HND.

Gordon
Nov 28, 2013, 7:40 PM
Oops got my airlines mixed uo

Klazu
Nov 28, 2013, 8:17 PM
On completely other topic, what is the reason for all major Canadian airports having their IATA code beginning with Y? I can't think of any other country having a similar system, so why Canada?

Hmh, didn't even know that IATA is headquartered in Montreal. :)

nname
Nov 28, 2013, 8:35 PM
The IATA codes in US and Canada are based on the 4-letter ICAO codes with the first letter removed (unless they already being used). Four ICAO prefixes are assigned to Canada: CU-, CW-, CY-, and CZ-. CU- and CW- are reserved for special purpose, so they start to assign the airport from CY-. That's why most airport in Canada have code starts from Y-, although some airports with CZ- prefix have their code begin with Z-. A close example here is Masset, YZMT becomes ZMT.

For US, on the other hand, 26 prefixes KA- to KZ- are reserved. So all it needed is to remove the 'K' to convert between ICAO and IATA code. For example KLAX => LAX

Klazu
Nov 29, 2013, 1:11 AM
Thank you for the explanation, but I still don't understand why Canada is such a special case? In every other country you can pretty much guess which major airport each IATA code is, but in case of Canada there is absolutely no logic behind YVR, YYZ, YYC, YEG, ...

YVR = V for Vancouver
YEG = E for Edmonton
YYC = C for Calgary
YYZ = no logic

Why not have VAN, CAL, EDM, TOR, MTL, etc. I am sure not all those can be reserved...

Johnny Aussie
Nov 29, 2013, 1:38 AM
In every other country you can pretty much guess which major airport each IATA code is, but in case of Canada there is absolutely no logic behind YVR, YYZ, YYC, YEG

You are right... There is no logic. But that's the way it is. I am so lucky I live in a country where Melbourne is MEL. Gives me the warm fuzzies seeing MEL on my bag tags. I am rest assured my bags are (HOPEFULLY) heading to Melbourne.

But try not to lose any sleep over it. ;)

Klazu
Nov 29, 2013, 1:45 AM
But try not to lose any sleep over it. ;)

Will try, but can't guarantee. :D I think the only logical reason is that Canada is special and thus gets some special love from IATA.

nname
Nov 29, 2013, 1:50 AM
Canada uses 2-letters code (for railway and weather station?) to identify city after the CY- prefix.

VR = Vancouver
YC = Calgary
EG = Edmonton
OW = Ottawa
TO, TZ = Toronto
YZ = Malton

Toronto's airport is actually in Malton, hence the code YYZ.

Klazu
Nov 29, 2013, 3:22 AM
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cyeg66
Nov 29, 2013, 4:27 AM
[/YOUTUBE]

Very nice. :slob: I love nighttime landings... (Unsure why) :shrug: There's just something about them. Landing in YYZ, YUL, YVR, PHX, SFO, LAX, DEN, IAH, etc, near large conurbations, something about the city all lit up. And no, I haven't had the pleasure of landing in Tokyo, São Paulo, Beijing, or Mexico City to truly get the "large conurbation" experience. :D

teriyaki
Nov 29, 2013, 6:08 AM
Very nice. :slob: I love nighttime landings... (Unsure why) :shrug: There's just something about them. Landing in YYZ, YUL, YVR, PHX, SFO, LAX, DEN, IAH, etc, near large conurbations, something about the city all lit up. And no, I haven't had the pleasure of landing in Tokyo, São Paulo, Beijing, or Mexico City to truly get the "large conurbation" experience. :D

If its NRT, you're not missing anything:haha:. Daytime is better for that.

I personally love landing into LAS at night. Airport being right next to the strip only makes it that much more awesome:tup:

Vagabond
Nov 29, 2013, 11:43 PM
Yes it would be YVR-ICN. So in addition to AC and KE. So the questions remain.... Will they start flying to YVR? Will this be in addition to AC or will they replace AC?

:shrug:

What Asiana would be after is part of the burgeoning China market (over 20 Chinese destinations and growing). Asiana has an extensive network into China and Incheon Airport is ideally located as a transfer point from North America.

I hope this won't affect KE's presence at YVR, as they are one of the better options to many destinations in South & Southeast Asia. It would be unfortunate if KE was forced to pull back with the expected entry of OZ (even now, they only fly to YVR 5x per week).

Johnny Aussie
Nov 30, 2013, 12:57 AM
I hope this won't affect KE's presence at YVR, as they are one of the better options to many destinations in South & Southeast Asia. It would be unfortunate if KE was forced to pull back with the expected entry of OZ (even now, they only fly to YVR 5x per week).

I honestly think KE is in it for the long haul. As China continues to develop and international travel from the Mainland Chinese continues to grow, airports like Incheon are ideally placed to garner a lot of this growth (between China and North America). Don't forget KE's reduction to 5 weekly is just its normal seasonal reduction over the winter months so this is nothing new. Obviously there won't be an infinite amount of travel. However, if airlines, like Korean Air play their cards right, they can do quite well with the burgeoning China market.

As for Asiana, it is still in the rumour box. So who knows. There are a lot of things churning in the rumour box right now. If any of this comes to fruition over the next few months.... we will just have to be patient.

Cage
Nov 30, 2013, 1:59 AM
As for Asiana, it is still in the rumour box. So who knows. There are a lot of things churning in the rumour box right now. If any of this comes to fruition over the next few months.... we will just have to be patient.

Old aviation proverb, " if you haven't heard a rumor by 10am, make one up".

Cage
Nov 30, 2013, 2:01 AM
To be fair, the additional frequencies are in fact for the daytime flight. The 2200 departure was always daily. The 1150am flight was the 4 x week flight.

I have a feeling there will be a few announcements on the horizon... Not too far away.

The PEK flight is switching to the daytime flight from night time flight.

The big december announcement is going to be 787 inflight product and destinations. It remains to be seen whether there are any slots left over for yyc-pek.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 30, 2013, 2:47 AM
The big december announcement is going to be 787 inflight product and destinations. It remains to be seen whether there are any slots left over for yyc-pek.

Being a former Calgarian, I am interested to see how this all unfolds... If there are any slots "left over" hey we'll take the scraps. Gotta start somewhere.

If the issue is "daytime" slots then those appear to have been taken all by the YVR-PEK and the YYZ-PEK flights since last summer there were only 4 weekly daytime flights YVR-PEK. So with that flight going to daily, and with all 10 of the YYZ flights being day time flights, not sure, like you said, if there will be any leftover.

As for all the rumours... for the record, I NEVER start them, but once they are started AND there is evidence to support I will discuss with my 2 bits. I actually did know about Icelandair and YVR but didn't say a word ;-)

Since secondary evidence has come about:

1) ANA new YVR-HND - we know ANA received one pair of Canada slots and somebody "in the know" has stated YVR-HND commencing 30 March 2014. And with Air Canada using their slots for YYZ-HND... this makes sense. So, if this does happen, then have to wait and see what role AC has in all this. If this is a JV as speculated, then I see AC keeping YVR-NRT but downgauging to a 763. The comments by Rovinescu about transferring some services from NRT to HND I believe were in reference to YYZ only. If this includes YVR (as in transfer to HND meaning to ANA as well, since it couldn't be AC metal) I couldn't see ANA only flying a 763 in the summer that would be way too small for the route.
2) Asiana - in 2011 the CEO of Asiana publicly singled out YVR as a future new destination. There is an unsubstantiated rumour that OZ has signed a ground handling contract at YVR for next spring. The moving of the AC flight to a later departure may have some bearing on this too.... who knows. So, again, IF this were to happen, is it a service replacing AC or is it in addition to it?
3) Taiwan-China bilateral increase. The additional weekly frequencies... so where do these go and who gets them (CI or BR?). I am thinking BR gets them and increases YVR and/or YYZ. Why? Star Alliance... and in Australia, EVA Air publicly stated, their preferred model is to develop existing routes to daily before starting new routes, within a country. Now in Canada, they did start YYZ instead of say bumping up YVR. However, I believe part of this is because they were actually restricted based on the current bilateral and they constantly had to seek additional capacity approval each year. On the other hand, this might play into the rumour that there may be an Asian carrier interested in starting a YYC/YEG - Asia flight. I would doubt Taiwan would be it though.
4) AC and all the speculation... Well like you said we all know the announcement(s) is(are) coming soon!

trofirhen
Nov 30, 2013, 11:09 AM
With all these increasing frequencies, and the number of Asian airlines already flying into YVR, and possibly more to come ....
If the idea of YVR as a transit point to South America becomes a reality, and if (and it seems possible, reading those BIV articles) there is a new, specially built, visa-free area areas for Asian (esp Chinese) passengers to wait in for their South American connecting flights ...... what kind of destinations, frequencies, and other airlines might we see coming into YVR?
If it comes about, this might be the most exciting and important development at YVR for many-a-year.
Would anyone care to elaborate on this? Such a development would surely catapult YVR a notch or two higher in global importance.

Spikester
Nov 30, 2013, 2:42 PM
Very nice. :slob: I love nighttime landings...

I had a memorable nighttime landing this week. YYZ-LGA, south down the Hudson, U-turn over Brooklyn, then northeast back to LGA. Spectacular view of Manhattan out my left-side window.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 30, 2013, 7:48 PM
I had a memorable nighttime landing this week. YYZ-LGA, south down the Hudson, U-turn over Brooklyn, then northeast back to LGA. Spectacular view of Manhattan out my left-side window.

I was going to throw in some of my faves but forgot.
One of them was going to be ORD-LGA. Similar path to yours flying parallel to Manhattan.
Another good one was PHX-DCA... the few zig zags before final approach seeing all the monuments lit up at night.
I fly into SIN all the time and usually a night landing.. What amazes me on this approach is the hundreds (yes hundreds) of freighters anchored in the harbour and all their lights dotting along the water with the island city rising behind them for a backdrop.
Nothing beats the old Kai Tak landing at night. Only did that once at night but that was incredible.

trofirhen
Dec 1, 2013, 12:06 AM
I remember a couple of times, during kidhood, going in and out of LA at night. Even from an altitude the lights diminish & stop at the San Gabriel and Bernadino moutains, sure.
But southerly, spreading outward, that sea of lights goes to the horizon, the freeways and major boulevards criss-crossing it to seeming infinity. Amazing image, burned into my memory :2cents:

Klazu
Dec 1, 2013, 6:40 AM
@Johnny Aussie: There are many great airports to land on, but I agree with you on all you mentioned. LGA-ORD is a skyscraper treat, DCA is amazing and I also love the ships in front of Singapore. I also loved a morning takeoff from DXB, going past Burj Khalifa and over the Palm Island. BOS also has great urban views night time, as does YYZ. Too many to list, to be honest. :P

rsxstock
Dec 1, 2013, 7:59 AM
does anyone know where the yvr's capacity is at right now? is it measured by gates/terminals leased?

YYCguys
Dec 1, 2013, 5:47 PM
I had a memorable nighttime landing this week. YYZ-LGA, south down the Hudson, U-turn over Brooklyn, then northeast back to LGA. Spectacular view of Manhattan out my left-side window.

What day and airline was that? I was operating a flight this week in which we did that. Had requested the "view route" from Tower and got it! Was pretty amazing!

Johnny Aussie
Dec 1, 2013, 7:06 PM
The first "big" announcement for next summer already.

Effective 4 June 2014

5 Daily all on 76-seater CR9s.

Flight schedules available on delta.com. Departures at 0615, 0910, 1200, 1500, 1750.

That's a very short flight for a CR9, only 50 mins block to block.

I was definitely expecting this route especially to tie into the SEA Asian flights, but I wasn't expecting 5 daily throughout the day. Therefore, this is also to tie into the quick development of SEA as a North American hub operation as well. Giving AS some serious competition.

With these new flights Delta (including Express) will have 10 daily flights from YVR plus additional flights to ATL on Wed, Sat and Sun plus DTW on Sat only.

Including AS and AC YVR-SEA will bump up to 19 daily.

I wouldn't be surprised if Delta adds YVR-LAX as well.

Kapten
Dec 1, 2013, 7:36 PM
The first "big" announcement for next summer already.

Effective 4 June 2014

5 Daily all on CR9.

Flight schedules available on delta.com. Departures at 0615, 0910, 1200, 1500, 1750.

That's a very short flight for a CR9, only 50 mins block to block.

I was definitely expecting this route especially to tie into the SEA Asian flights, but I wasn't expecting 5 daily throughout the day. Therefore, this is also to tie into the quick development of SEA as a North American hub operation as well. Giving AS some serious competition.

With these new flights Delta (including Express) will have 10 daily flights from YVR plus additional flights to ATL on Wed, Sat and Sun plus DTW on Sat only.

Including AS and AC YVR-SEA will bump up to 19 daily.

I wouldn't be surprised if Delta adds YVR-LAX as well.

That's big news! Will Delta fly to JFK again next summer from yvr?

Johnny Aussie
Dec 1, 2013, 7:42 PM
That's big news! Will Delta fly to JFK again next summer from yvr?

Oh crap you are right... Sorry jet lagged!

Make that 11 daily including:

MSP 3
SLC 2
JFK 1
SEA 5
ATL 3/wk
DTW 1/wk

Spikester
Dec 1, 2013, 8:22 PM
What day and airline was that? I was operating a flight this week in which we did that. Had requested the "view route" from Tower and got it! Was pretty amazing!

AC 722, Thursday 28 Nov, departed YYZ about 19:40. Thanks for a great ride if that was you.

Klazu
Dec 1, 2013, 9:13 PM
Including AS and AC YVR-SEA will bump up to 19 daily.

Wow, that's one frequent connection! Perhaps the most frequent connection YVR has? What is this traffic mainly being? Vancouverites connecting in Seattle to different US flights or Americans connecting in Vancouver for our Asia flights? Or is it destination traffic for either airports (Americans coming to Vancouver via Seattle or Asian passangers connecting to Seattle?

Johnny Aussie
Dec 1, 2013, 9:23 PM
Wow, that's one frequent connection! Perhaps the most frequent connection YVR has? What is this traffic mainly being? Vancouverites connecting in Seattle to different US flights or Americans connecting in Vancouver for our Asia flights? Or is it destination traffic for either airports (Americans coming to Vancouver via Seattle or Asian passangers connecting to Seattle?

Transborder yes, but not even close for all routes.

YYZ, YYC and YYJ all have more frequencies than YVR-SEA.

These flights are pretty much everything you said.

BC people connecting through SEA for other US destinations, Asia and Europe. And Americans flying through YVR for other Canadian destinations, Asia and Europe as well. There is some O&D between YVR and SEA but not that much.

usog
Dec 1, 2013, 9:58 PM
Haha forget Bellingham, I hope Seattle starts siphoning more international traffic so we get some decent prices in YVR.

casper
Dec 2, 2013, 6:08 AM
Transborder yes, but not even close for all routes.

YYZ, YYC and YYJ all have more frequencies than YVR-SEA.

These flights are pretty much everything you said.

BC people connecting through SEA for other US destinations, Asia and Europe. And Americans flying through YVR for other Canadian destinations, Asia and Europe as well. There is some O&D between YVR and SEA but not that much.

The flight should do well. Westjet will likely codeshare on the flight (and they code-share on many of the Delta flights). Delta code sharing on the Sky Team flights out of Vancouver as well as Westjet this fairly easily becomes a flight with lots of connecting traffic on either end. This fairy quickly will feel like a connecting flight between two hubs.

Any thoughts on the likelihood in the future of Westjet putting a Q400 on the route.....

stiffdeadman
Dec 2, 2013, 7:33 AM
The first "big" announcement for next summer already.

Effective 4 June 2014

5 Daily all on 76-seater CR9s.

Flight schedules available on delta.com. Departures at 0615, 0910, 1200, 1500, 1750.

That's a very short flight for a CR9, only 50 mins block to block.

I was definitely expecting this route especially to tie into the SEA Asian flights, but I wasn't expecting 5 daily throughout the day. Therefore, this is also to tie into the quick development of SEA as a North American hub operation as well. Giving AS some serious competition.

With these new flights Delta (including Express) will have 10 daily flights from YVR plus additional flights to ATL on Wed, Sat and Sun plus DTW on Sat only.

Including AS and AC YVR-SEA will bump up to 19 daily.

I wouldn't be surprised if Delta adds YVR-LAX as well.

nice to see a transborder addition for once rather then the subtractions of the last few years.

Gordon
Dec 2, 2013, 1:26 PM
I think yvr is fairly cost competitive wi Seattle on Asian Flights

teriyaki
Dec 2, 2013, 5:34 PM
I think yvr is fairly cost competitive wi Seattle on Asian Flights

I agree. We have many PRC carriers that want to feed you through their hubs that prices have been kept relatively low (provided you're willing to fly on a PRC carrier).

So far, the prices from SEA have not been good enough to warrant the drive down as i'll gladly pay slight premium to fly in and out of my home airport.

However, with that said. Delta could be smart and aggresively poach flyers from Vancouver by tagging the YVR-SEA flight as a loss-leader for those that book connections in SEA to Asia flights to bolster their hub launch. Create awareness and add some market disturbance. AC does this with their LGA-YYZ-LHR flights where its cheaper to fly from New York with a connection in YYZ to London. Delta could theoretically capture quite some attention with cheap flights YVR-SEA-Asia.

theKB
Dec 2, 2013, 6:39 PM
It would be great to see a few low cost options for YVR-SEA much like there are for Toronto/NYC although population is a huge factor in the options they have over there.

The ultimate Vancouver - Seattle connection would naturally be downtown sea plane to seattle downtown however for business/tourism.

Hot Rod
Dec 2, 2013, 6:59 PM
I'm surprised it isnt already done, doesn't Victoria do this?

theKB
Dec 2, 2013, 8:21 PM
I'm surprised it isnt already done, doesn't Victoria do this?


Victoria - Seattle is quite common but nothing from here. Helijet operated a connecting service via Victoria but I don't think it was very successful. I just wonder if there are logistical issues (customs etc) or there just isn't the demand or the population to merit it.

The obvious best option for a fast trip to seattle is high speed rail but I don't think that will ever happen especially with the current routing.

moosejaw
Dec 2, 2013, 8:45 PM
Victoria - Seattle is quite common but nothing from here. Helijet operated a connecting service via Victoria but I don't think it was very successful. I just wonder if there are logistical issues (customs etc) or there just isn't the demand or the population to merit it.

The obvious best option for a fast trip to seattle is high speed rail but I don't think that will ever happen especially with the current routing.

Your wish may happen......may happen. the route has been designated as a high speed rail corridor since the late 90s. WA state has figured out to upgrade the line to accommodate high speed rail but it will need a lot of money to upgrade the line through the cascades. The goal is to have trains hit 110 mph with a two and half hour ride from king street to pacific blvd.

The proposed high speed rail will extend down to portland.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 2, 2013, 9:39 PM
nice to see a transborder addition for once rather then the subtractions of the last few years.

What subtractions are you referring to?

I just went back to 2009 - 2014 and I don't see any subtractions per se... there has been a bit of fluctuation though.

This is summer only comparisons and not including CX, PR or AC to Hawaii.

2009 ~ 72 daily flights
2010 ~ 74 daily flights
2011 ~ 71 daily flights
2012 ~ 72 daily flights
2013 ~ 74 daily flights
2014 ~ 78 daily flights (estimated as of now - note AA still showing only 2 daily but that usually increases to the normal 3 when they update in early 2014)

In comparison YYC has hovered around 46 -49 and YEG around 18 -19 during the same timeframe.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 3, 2013, 1:35 AM
And not a peep, tweet, murmur or anything from YVR.

I cannot remember the last time any airline launched any route with 5 daily flights. Seats wise that's 760 return seats per day. To not even mention this? Seems rather apathetic.

Most other airports in Canada would be having press conferences, cakes, fireworks and parades!

theKB
Dec 3, 2013, 2:12 AM
Your wish may happen......may happen. the route has been designated as a high speed rail corridor since the late 90s. WA state has figured out to upgrade the line to accommodate high speed rail but it will need a lot of money to upgrade the line through the cascades. The goal is to have trains hit 110 mph with a two and half hour ride from king street to pacific blvd.

The proposed high speed rail will extend down to portland.

I would be surprised if it happened but would be happy if it did! I am actually slightly surprised that there is no schedule seaplane service from coal harbour to seattle. Unless you are connecting YVR-SEA is just not worth the time with all the security crap and how early you have to arrive, also SEA to downtown is a bit of a distance although better now that they have put in a rail link.

deasine
Dec 3, 2013, 2:23 AM
I would be surprised if it happened but would be happy if it did! I am actually slightly surprised that there is no schedule seaplane service from coal harbour to seattle.

Answer: complications with customs. There needs to be separate infrastructure built to handle these flights and the companies operating the route would need to convince CBSA and USCBP to set up services, which would likely entail the companies paying CBSA and USCBP. I can't imagine there be any profits made under such regulations.

stiffdeadman
Dec 3, 2013, 6:14 AM
What subtractions are you referring to?

I just went back to 2009 - 2014 and I don't see any subtractions per se... there has been a bit of fluctuation though.

This is summer only comparisons and not including CX, PR or AC to Hawaii.

2009 ~ 72 daily flights
2010 ~ 74 daily flights
2011 ~ 71 daily flights
2012 ~ 72 daily flights
2013 ~ 74 daily flights
2014 ~ 78 daily flights (estimated as of now - note AA still showing only 2 daily but that usually increases to the normal 3 when they update in early 2014)

In comparison YYC has hovered around 46 -49 and YEG around 18 -19 during the same timeframe.

referring to actual american carriers adding service rather then subtracting. pretty much all the us carriers have cut service to yvr in the last few years other then united. alaska used to have sfo, las, san. american tried ord for one summer. us airways had las, and phl for one summer. before the merger northwest had 5 daily to msp, daily to dtw, saturday to mem. frontier was here and pulled out and now is at bli.

trofirhen
Dec 3, 2013, 1:50 PM
I'm anticipating more than anything else, the possible customs-free transfer area for potential Asian flights going through to South America.
If this comes about (and it seems quite possible now), it may be the biggest thing that has happened to YVR since the new terminal was built.
Flights to South America would be something almost no other city on the West Coast has.
This would be a paradigm shift for the whole airport, and would, I am sure, bump it up from just being a focus city to being en route to a hub.
(or a "stub" as Mr. Rovinescu likes to call it)

MalcolmTucker
Dec 3, 2013, 4:00 PM
Is there really a strategic advantage over Los Angeles for that connecting traffic? Especially without origin and destination to anchor the South American legs?

moosejaw
Dec 3, 2013, 5:12 PM
I have to wonder if places like Cuba and Venezuela are no go places for US Flights and Airports bc of political affiliations. Which may explain why YVR can fill in the void. You also have to consider that Chile and Bolivia as well which does a lot of trade with China also aligns itself with VZ and Cuba. BC of bitterness between the US and both of those countries, vancouver can align itself to see more latin american flights.

Panama's airport is also a gateway to Latin America. Not aware of any asian airlines flying there?

theKB
Dec 3, 2013, 5:12 PM
Answer: complications with customs. There needs to be separate infrastructure built to handle these flights and the companies operating the route would need to convince CBSA and USCBP to set up services, which would likely entail the companies paying CBSA and USCBP. I can't imagine there be any profits made under such regulations.

I figured as much although victoria has scheduled service but I am sure those logistics tie into the boat/cruise/ferry traffic.

Hot Rod
Dec 3, 2013, 6:58 PM
Ya, how does Victoria have scheduled service downtown to downtown on air and ferry to sea with less population but Van doesn't? I can't recall significant customs on the few times I took the vic clipper and does SLU aerodrome in sea have customs?

I think this is an interesting question as i think the population is there. Or is driving just that much easier or the fact that Canadians wouldn't have a way to get around after arriving in our far less transit oriented region?

trofirhen
Dec 3, 2013, 8:25 PM
Is there really a strategic advantage over Los Angeles for that connecting traffic? Especially without origin and destination to anchor the South American legs?

I think that the Polar Route is shorter, whereas going further south, to LA, would be a longer (and more fuel-consuming) flight
What would a flight in this overall scheme need ... in order to be and O/D flight?
{Apparently the mining industries are a major draw on the South America routes, and would account for the justifiable business traffic in that regard.}

Cage
Dec 3, 2013, 11:55 PM
What subtractions are you referring to?

I just went back to 2009 - 2014 and I don't see any subtractions per se... there has been a bit of fluctuation though.

Your have to go back further than 2009 to see the subtractions. IIRC AS had 30 flights in the summer season back in 2001-2003 time frame. This included 18 QX flights. AS also had PDX, SFO, LAX, and SAN. ANC came later after the AS services were reduced due to the increase competition from BLI.

Air BC and Canadian Regional Also had services to SEA that number about 18 between the two Canadian operators. Even UAX gave SEA-YVR a try.

And not a peep, tweet, murmur or anything from YVR.

This DL service is primarily to get YVR destined people to connect in SEA rather than use one of the other YVR non stops. The DL SEA service also competes for TPAC and TATL flights. This is in my opinion a proper response by the Airport Auth to a service meant to syphon off lucrative pax.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 4, 2013, 12:15 AM
Your have to go back further than 2009 to see the subtractions. IIRC AS had 30 flights in the summer season back in 2001-2003 time frame. This included 18 QX flights. AS also had PDX, SFO, LAX, and SAN. ANC came later after the AS services were reduced due to the increase competition from BLI.

Air BC and Canadian Regional Also had services to SEA that number about 18 between the two Canadian operators. Even UAX gave SEA-YVR a try.



This DL service is primarily to get YVR destined people to connect in SEA rather than use one of the other YVR non stops. The DL SEA service also competes for TPAC and TATL flights. This is in my opinion a proper response by the Airport Auth to a service meant to syphon off lucrative pax.

Fair enough. I just went back a few years. I suppose I could have gone back 15 years and include TWA to STL and DL to CVG and Reno Air to RNO. Etc. I realise a lot of routes have come and gone.
Back in 2002/2003 there were approx 3.8M transborder passengers. This peaked in 2008 with about 4.3M passengers. In 2013 transborder should finish off close to 4.3M as well. So yes despite some reductions, passenger numbers didn't fall off and have been gradually recovering quite well.

And yeah the BLI factor... Been an influence since the 1980s somehow YVR is holding its own. Obviously YVR would have even more transborder pax if it weren't for BLI and SEA so close.

Not so sure if DL are going to be siphoning too many "lucrative" pax. The higher yielding pax would still prefer nonstop and most likely pay a premium for it. What they certainly might be stealing are some of the lower yielding pax. Prices are going to have to drop pretty low as right now there some amazing deals to Asia especially with all the new capacity. Let's see how low they will go!

Maybe YVR will have to start an anti-SEA campaign! I am jesting... slightly!

deasine
Dec 4, 2013, 1:38 AM
Well the reduction in services to many of these cities is a direct result of the changing trends, values, and economic realities in the aviation industry. Not just Vancouver, but many cities throughout the world had significantly more flights, notably Osaka. But look at the realities today, Osaka is insignificant in the Asia market now. The reduction of service to many American cities reflects the hubbing concept to bring economies of scale. AS service to SAN and SFO makes no sense given these cities aren't hubs of AS, nor is YVR one either.

Expanding on Johnny Aussie's post, BLI and passengers willing to go to SEA are often low-yielding passengers (me myself included). And often, these destinations and trips are made for leisure and holiday purposes, further emphasizing lower yields. What YVR needs is sustained more-premium, business-oriented, or luxury-leisure-oriented traffic in order to attract more airlines to fly into YVR, because with presence of premium traffic comes potential premium profits, and it's these profits that enable and attract legacy airlines to fly into cities.

connect2source
Dec 4, 2013, 3:04 PM
Air Canada's 787 new webpage!!

http://787.aircanada.com/en

Love the new interior, especially Exec First which looks a lot like Cathay's new business class, the colours of Premium Economy and Economy are very slick as well. Nice to see AC put some thought into the cabin details, a departure from the very basic looking high-density 77W's. Also very nice to see the return of the 'pod' concept, I was worried that the 787 Exec First would be the same as the high-density 77W's.

trofirhen
Dec 4, 2013, 4:12 PM
Air Canada's 787 new webpage!!

http://787.aircanada.com/en

Love the new interior, especially Exec First which looks a lot like Cathay's new business class, the colours of Premium Economy and Economy are very slick as well. Nice to see AC put some thought into the cabin details, a departure from the very basic looking high-density 77W's. Also very nice to see the return of the 'pod' concept, I was worried that the 787 Exec First would be the same as the high-density 77W's.

Interesting, thanks!
My only problem was, when opening their "routes" page, there was a big world map .... with no routes !! It just mentioned that Toronto-Tel Aviv would be their first sustained 787 route, as well as LHR.

connect2source
Dec 4, 2013, 4:52 PM
Interesting, thanks!
My only problem was, when opening their "routes" page, there was a big world map .... with no routes !! It just mentioned that Toronto-Tel Aviv would be their first sustained 787 route, as well as LHR.

Agreed, they need to fix that quick or delete the page.. not very slick.

Hourglass
Dec 4, 2013, 5:30 PM
Expanding on Johnny Aussie's post, BLI and passengers willing to go to SEA are often low-yielding passengers (me myself included). And often, these destinations and trips are made for leisure and holiday purposes, further emphasizing lower yields. What YVR needs is sustained more-premium, business-oriented, or luxury-leisure-oriented traffic in order to attract more airlines to fly into YVR, because with presence of premium traffic comes potential premium profits, and it's these profits that enable and attract legacy airlines to fly into cities.

Or a transit hub similar to AMS or SIN. Let's face it -- Metro Vancouver only has a population of around 2.4 million so O&D traffic is limited.

trofirhen
Dec 4, 2013, 5:33 PM
Or a transit hub similar to AMS or SIN. Let's face it -- Metro Vancouver only has a population of around 2.4 million so O&D traffic is limited.

Being a transit hub isn't such a bad thing.

Cage
Dec 4, 2013, 5:51 PM
Expanding on Johnny Aussie's post, BLI and passengers willing to go to SEA are often low-yielding passengers (me myself included). And often, these destinations and trips are made for leisure and holiday purposes, further emphasizing lower yields. What YVR needs is sustained more-premium, business-oriented, or luxury-leisure-oriented traffic in order to attract more airlines to fly into YVR, because with presence of premium traffic comes potential premium profits, and it's these profits that enable and attract legacy airlines to fly into cities.

It is surprising the number of frequent and/or business class passengers that are voluntarily doing a one stop connection through the USA rather than take AC or foreign airline nonstop from Canada.

With most nonstop TATL services from Canada the departure time allows for one to work 1/2 day and the go to the airport. However using the one stop connection in USA the whole day is a travel day. The one stop can also be pushed over to the bean counters as cost saving measure as the one stop is a lot cheaper than nonstop services.

However most common reason for a frequent high value traveler to defect to USA based airline is to get out of the strangle hold that is Star Alliance in Canada. This is the market that Delta is hoping to tap with their new SEA-YVR service.

While the low budget flyer will go to BLI, so will the frequent traveler living in South Surrey or Langley/Abbotsford area that gets fed up with the YVR monster. Easier to drive to BLI using the Nexus card that fight traffic to YVR and fight the long lines for checkin and security.

Love the new interior, especially Exec First which looks a lot like Cathay's new business class, the colours of Premium Economy and Economy are very slick as well. Nice to see AC put some thought into the cabin details, a departure from the very basic looking high-density 77W's. Also very nice to see the return of the 'pod' concept, I was worried that the 787 Exec First would be the same as the high-density 77W's.

The 787 interior was 2-3 years in the making. The new 77W in high density seating was a distraction for the team. The interior team had to take time away from the 787 interior to get out the 77W product. The 5 new 77W are bought at ridiculously low prices as compensation for 788 delays and the deal came up rather suddenly with insufficient time to secure a new J seat and introduce PE cabin. The economics of the sardine can economy seating are too enticing to pass up. Besides there are very few complaints from travelers because most frequent travelers are getting to PE product.

Here is a little tid bit for you. The 787 seating will be retrofitted into the 77W and 77L. With 10 abreast the standard for economy section. Only the 333 will retain the original XM interior configuration. But the 333s will be out of the fleet by 2015; replaced by 789s on a 1:1 basis.

Finally if PE takes off, AC can expand this cabin by taking out Y seats. THe only limitation is J cabin its struck between doors 1 and 2 and cannot be expanded without an incredible increase in seating (e.g the J cabin cannot be expanded by less than 12 seats and would take up the majority of the PE cabin in this configuration.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 4, 2013, 7:35 PM
It is surprising the number of frequent and/or business class passengers that are voluntarily doing a one stop connection through the USA rather than take AC or foreign airline nonstop from Canada.

However most common reason for a frequent high value traveler to defect to USA based airline is to get out of the strangle hold that is Star Alliance in Canada. This is the market that Delta is hoping to tap with their new SEA-YVR service.

On your first point, that is actually good to hear. It indicates there is a decent premium market from YVR as most airlines seem to be doing quite "ok" on the premium side of the non-stop int'l flights. So if YVR and the airlines market themselves well enough they should be able to grab more of this $$$ market.

As to your other point I highlighted.

FRA and PEK and seasonal MUC are the only exclusive Star Alliance routes to Europe and Asia ex YVR.
One World can get you to LHR in Europe and HKG and NRT in Asia.
Sky Team can get you to AMS in Europe and ICN, PVG, CAN and TPE in Asia.
So plenty of options outside of Star Alliance.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 4, 2013, 11:12 PM
Air Canada's 787 new webpage!!

http://787.aircanada.com/en

Love the new interior, especially Exec First which looks a lot like Cathay's new business class, the colours of Premium Economy and Economy are very slick as well. Nice to see AC put some thought into the cabin details, a departure from the very basic looking high-density 77W's. Also very nice to see the return of the 'pod' concept, I was worried that the 787 Exec First would be the same as the high-density 77W's.

My first experience in the 787 was really good!

I just skimmed through some of Air Canada's comments over the last few weeks and I cannot believe I missed this:

"Air Canada will base its training facility for the Dreamliner maintenance engineers in Vancouver, which will create “some incremental employment” in the city. The airline currently employs close to 4,400 people in Vancouver, including 121 who were hired this year." - source Vancouver Sun 8 November

connect2source
Dec 5, 2013, 12:48 AM
Here is a little tid bit for you. The 787 seating will be retrofitted into the 77W and 77L. With 10 abreast the standard for economy section. Only the 333 will retain the original XM interior configuration. But the 333s will be out of the fleet by 2015; replaced by 789s on a 1:1 basis.

Finally if PE takes off, AC can expand this cabin by taking out Y seats. THe only limitation is J cabin its struck between doors 1 and 2 and cannot be expanded without an incredible increase in seating (e.g the J cabin cannot be expanded by less than 12 seats and would take up the majority of the PE cabin in this configuration.

Fantastic insight thanks!!

I guessed that all the 777's would be converted to high density, it's standard for Emirates, Air France, KLM and now American is beginning the high density thing and Air New Zealand is converting their remaining 772's. Seems like the 787 will be my airplane of choice when flying AC as they seem to be creating a premium product out of it.

casper
Dec 5, 2013, 2:21 AM
Fantastic insight thanks!!

I guessed that all the 777's would be converted to high density, it's standard for Emirates, Air France, KLM and now American is beginning the high density thing and Air New Zealand is converting their remaining 772's. Seems like the 787 will be my airplane of choice when flying AC as they seem to be creating a premium product out of it.

The 787 layout looks nice: http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/fleet/788.html

connect2source
Dec 5, 2013, 2:33 AM
Edit :

Looks just great.. and great to see it added to the fleet-page already.. make me wonder when they're going to finally remove the picture of the 'shark-fin concept' 787 .. from the 'new fleet' page!

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/media/facts/documents/AC_787.jpg

Also just noticed.. did Air Canada just do away with the Executive First name, I see only International Business Class titles on the fleet descriptions now? .. and Business Class for domestic.

deasine
Dec 5, 2013, 4:16 AM
I believe the seats are actually the same manufacturer as Qatar as opposed to the Cathay/AA/US seat manufacturer due to the angle of the IFE screens and positioning of the tray table. And if that's the case, that means the seat is even larger/wider than the CX configuration.

Cage
Dec 5, 2013, 5:06 AM
Also just noticed.. did Air Canada just do away with the Executive First name, I see only International Business Class titles on the fleet descriptions now? .. and Business Class for domestic.

Yes confirmed on flyer talk with AC rep the Executive First brand had been retired and replaced with International Business Class. Narrow body Executive Class is replaced with Business Class.

trofirhen
Dec 5, 2013, 8:04 AM
Another sign of the times? Especially in reference to Delta, Seattle, and YVR.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/1620570

Johnny Aussie
Dec 5, 2013, 8:15 AM
Another sign of the times? Especially in reference to Delta, Seattle, and YVR.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/1620570

So funny... and a sign of what times?

"By next summer, customers will have ONE-STOP service to the top five cities in Asia as well as the top three European markets."

So clever!

Hmmmm.... How about NON-STOP from YVR to all of those destinations.... plus more!

I think they're going to have to come up with something just a tad stronger than that.

They might want to do a little bit of homework before making such lame statements.

Hourglass
Dec 5, 2013, 11:18 AM
So funny... and a sign of what times?

"By next summer, customers will have ONE-STOP service to the top five cities in Asia as well as the top three European markets."

So clever!

Hmmmm.... How about NON-STOP from YVR to all of those destinations.... plus more!

I think they're going to have to come up with something just a tad stronger than that.

They might want to do a little bit of homework before making such lame statements.

Yes. The problem is when these one-stop flights end up being a few hundred dollars cheaper than AC's non-stop flights. I seem to remember raising a red flag about the threat that Delta's build-up at SEA represents to YVR several pages back. 4x daily jet service between YVR and SEA isn't exactly doing anything to persuade me I'm wrong.

AC should be doing more in YVR of what they say they're going to do in YYZ ie connections and feeder flights to support their transpacific business. Maybe the new 787s will help open up some new route opportunities too.

connect2source
Dec 5, 2013, 2:53 PM
Yes confirmed on flyer talk with AC rep the Executive First brand had been retired and replaced with International Business Class. Narrow body Executive Class is replaced with Business Class.

Seems they could have come up with something slightly less generic, even United has chosen UnitedBusiness and BusinessFirst.. Air Canada should seriously consider some sort of 'branding' for these classes. Most global carriers have interesting branded names such as BA's Club World, VS's UpperClass and JAL's Seasons.

Also noticed Executive Pod ( 787 ) Classic Pod ( original Pods ) and Studio Pods ( HD 777's ) in regards to seating descriptions for International Business.

casper
Dec 5, 2013, 3:05 PM
Yes. The problem is when these one-stop flights end up being a few hundred dollars cheaper than AC's non-stop flights. I seem to remember raising a red flag about the threat that Delta's build-up at SEA represents to YVR several pages back. 4x daily jet service between YVR and SEA isn't exactly doing anything to persuade me I'm wrong.

AC should be doing more in YVR of what they say they're going to do in YYZ ie connections and feeder flights to support their transpacific business. Maybe the new 787s will help open up some new route opportunities too.

Both airlines price their tickets using yield management systems.

Today in many cases it is cheaper from the US to fly from the US to Europe or Asia on Air Canada. It is also usually cheaper from Canada to fly to Europe or Asia on the US airlines. Air Canada and Delta will find ways of filling these aircraft.

Another aspect to consider is Tokyo. In the old Northwest days nearly all NWA Asian bound flights from across the US stopped in Tokyo and that was the main transfer hub. Is this a shift to Seattle being the transfer hub instead of Narita?

Johnny Aussie
Dec 5, 2013, 7:16 PM
Both airlines price their tickets using yield management systems.

Today in many cases it is cheaper from the US to fly from the US to Europe or Asia on Air Canada. It is also usually cheaper from Canada to fly to Europe or Asia on the US airlines. Air Canada and Delta will find ways of filling these aircraft.

Another aspect to consider is Tokyo. In the old Northwest days nearly all NWA Asian bound flights from across the US stopped in Tokyo and that was the main transfer hub. Is this a shift to Seattle being the transfer hub instead of Narita?

And that was my main point.

To make a one-stop vs a non-stop more attractive they're going to have to do more than make statements like that one. They will have to price the via SEA flights enough to pull passengers off the non-stops. It's not like Sky Team doesn't already have many decent Asia non-stop flights either plus AMS to Europe. The challenge for Delta would be easier if YVR didn't have all these established direct flights.

As I've said before, the "threats" of BLI and SEA are nothing new. This is another development that YVR (and Air Canada) will have to deal with in the never ending challenges of aviation.

nname
Dec 5, 2013, 7:55 PM
Not sure about the others, but I'd rather pay $150-$200 more, and not having to turn my 12 hours flight into an 18 hours journey, plus the hassle going through US custom.

I remembered taking the BR SEA-TPE flights a couple of times to save maybe $150, but we just decided that its not worth it..

Gordon
Dec 5, 2013, 9:00 PM
We are starting to see a depreciation in the Canadian dollar. It could drop to 88cents or lower. this will certainly take a bite out of Sea & BlI's cost advantage over yvr. If it drops close to 80 cents that would make a much more level playing field.