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whatnext
Dec 22, 2013, 3:04 AM
Did Air Canada not add a second YVR-SYD flgiht this winter?

trofirhen
Dec 22, 2013, 4:37 AM
Did Air Canada not add a second YVR-SYD flgiht this winter?
if they did, might this augur more flights into Australia?
AC has stated a YVR - BNE 787 route will start in 2014 or 2015, so is this really going to happen?
And what about anything into MEL?
(unlikely, it seems)

rxp
Dec 22, 2013, 11:43 PM
Chuck Chiang: Is a Vancouver–India air link in our future?


BY CHUCK CHIANG, VANCOUVER SUN COLUMNIST DECEMBER 22, 2013 1:30 PM


Chuck Chiang: Is a Vancouver-India air link in our future?

An Air India Boeing 787 Dreamliner flies over Le Bourget airport, near Paris on June 18, 2013 during the 50th International Paris Air show.
Photograph by: ERIC FEFERBERG , AFP/Getty Images
It has always surprised me, given the large South Asian population in Canada (and especially Metro Vancouver), that air links between the two countries are almost non-existent.

After all, the South Asian community — at 1.6 million strong — is the country’s largest visible minority, outnumbering Chinese-Canadians (although, in Metro, the Chinese are the largest group).

It is a community whose members have excelled at every level of society, from politics to business and from entertainment to sports. Meanwhile, bilateral trade between the two countries has grown to more than $2 billion annually.

So it is strange that Canada, in its entirety, has only one daily air service to and from India (Jet Airway’s Toronto-Delhi flight, which makes a stop in Brussels). In comparison, Vancouver alone has about 10 daily flights to destinations in China.

The curious fact has not been lost on either the airlines or the airports. In recent talks in Vancouver, both Air Canada and YVR officials mentioned India as a market they are interested in, albeit without specifics or any hint of imminent announcements.

Reports from 2011 suggest Air Canada explored new routes to India then. Given the hyper-competitive landscape of global commercial aviation, it is guaranteed that the airline explored every facet of feasibility of such a route. If it didn’t come about, it must have meant the economics didn’t make sense.

But that may finally be changing. According to India’s Business Standard, Air India will begin talking code-sharing with Star Alliance members after the alliance voted to integrate the Indian airline into its 28-airline ranks. The report noted, specifically, Air India’s eagerness to talk to one particular Star Alliance member — Air Canada.

Code-sharing is a common practice in the airline industry where one airline can sell tickets to a flight, even if it is operated by another airline, and route luggage all the way to a final destination even with a carrier change mid-route. For the customer, it simplifies booking and travel. For an airline, it means extend its destination reach without an expansion of flight operations.

“We would like to code-share with Air Canada because we have stopped our flights to Canada,” an official with Air India told the Business Standard. “These discussions will happen concurrently, along with the (Star Alliance) integration process.

It is unclear whether Air India meant code-sharing on domestic flights within India (which leaves unspecified the role of who will provide the initial Canada-India service) or on an international Canada-India flight.

However, Air Canada CEO Calin Rovinescu did mention in Vancouver recently that his airline will leverage code-share agreements to enter new markets.

Meanwhile, the economics of a Canada-India route may change soon. Air Canada will begin getting new Boeing 787 Dreamliners in March, and there are expected to be 37 Dreamliners in Air Canada’s fleet by late 2019. Officials have long touted the Dreamliners’ dramatically improved economics — its lighter weight allows for more efficient operation, and its larger capacity means more revenue per flight.

Such a plane might allow Air Canada to serve markets where it previously deemed economically unsustainable — like, for instance, India. With the code-share potentially unlocking a cluster of domestic feeder routes in India tying into a Canada-India flight, it would appear the very early outlines of a potential service may be taking place.

Of course, there remains challenges, one of which is the nature of the South Asian community in Canada.

Unlike the Chinese Canadian community, where “astronauts” — family breadwinners who travel frequently between work in Asia and family in Canada — are common, the South Asian community tends to settle and stay in the Great White North. The vast majority of travel is made by family members who visit from India, often for six months at a time, limiting the frequency of using flights.

And then there’s the abundance of Asian airlines already targeting the local South Asian market. My parents recently returned from a month-long trip to visit family and friends in Taiwan, and I was shocked to find a large portion of the passengers on their China Airlines flights — both departing and return — were South Asians connecting through Taipei to Delhi.

Similar phenomena can also be seen with many other Asian airlines at YVR — especially Cathay Pacific through Hong Kong and EVA Air, also through Taipei. So perhaps the demand of South Asian flights has already been accounted for — in Canada’s many flights to East Asia.

Source: http://www.vancouversun.com/Business/asia-pacific/Chuck+Chiang+Vancouver+India+link+future/9315733/story.html

Cage
Dec 23, 2013, 4:54 PM
Chuck Chiang: Is a Vancouver–India air link in our future?


BY CHUCK CHIANG, VANCOUVER SUN COLUMNIST DECEMBER 22, 2013 1:30 PM


Chuck Chiang: Is a Vancouver-India air link in our future?



Source: http://www.vancouversun.com/Business/asia-pacific/Chuck+Chiang+Vancouver+India+link+future/9315733/story.html

Doubtful that yvr-del is profitable even with 787. Part of the problem is the route has 2.5 aircraft commitment. With profitability marginal at best, that's too much metal for to little return.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 23, 2013, 9:26 PM
Compared to summer 2013
Note my references are relating to capacity changes only.

ANA
HND – new daily 763 (up 1498 seats pw)

ICELANDAIR
KEF – new 2 weekly 752 (up 378 seats pw)

AIR CANADA
ICN – back to daily 763 from 4 weekly last summer (up 633 seats pw)
HKG – increase due to high density 77W (up 763 seats pw)
LHR – increase due to high density 77W (up 763 seats pw)
PEK – upgauge to 77W from 763 but frequency down to 7 from 11 (up 122 seats pw)
NRT – downgauge from 763 from 77W (down 966 seats pw) – due to JV with ANA new daily YVR-HND
YYZ – increased capacity due to more 763 flying and reintroducing 77W on 2 of the daily flights
YOW – increased capacity due to daily 763 replacing one of the daily 320s
(Note AC domestic far from finalised anyway but putting more wide bodies on now)

VIRGIN ATLANTIC
LHR – increase from 4 to 5 weekly (up 240 seats pw)

LUFTHANSA
FRA – upgauge from daily 346 to daily 744 (up 322 seats pw)
MUC – flying season extended to commence a couple of months earlier than the route launch in 2013

KLM
AMS – downgauge from daily 772 to 333 (down 210 seats pw)

UNITED
IAD – increase from 2 weekly to daily 320 (up 690 seats pw)

DELTA
SEA – new 5 daily CR9 (up 2660 seats pw)
ATL – increase from 1 weekly to 3 weekly (up 340 seats pw)

AA this morning bumped DFW back to 3 daily (was only 2 yesterday)
UA this morning bumped DEN back to 23 weekly as well

whatnext
Dec 24, 2013, 3:10 AM
From what I've hear those high density AC 777's are nasty in economy. A good reason to fly VS to LHR instead.

JohnnyA, do you know if AC cancelled their second winter SYD flight?

Johnny Aussie
Dec 24, 2013, 4:50 AM
From what I've hear those high density AC 777's are nasty in economy. A good reason to fly VS to LHR instead.

JohnnyA, do you know if AC cancelled their second winter SYD flight?

Last winter AC did fly 12 extra flights from YVR-SYD. Basically 3 extra flights per week for the peak 4 weeks around Xmas into mid January. No they did not fly those this year. Too bad they didn't though.

Yeah, and I was going to leave it up to you guys to determine if any of these capacity increases were gains or losses on the comfort front!

deasine
Dec 24, 2013, 7:59 AM
Well if you were in the market for Premium Economy (W) they are nice. Trust me the upcoming AC 787s in Y is not that much better.

trofirhen
Dec 28, 2013, 9:21 PM
http://www.airmilescalculator.com/distance/yvr-to-del/

Clicking on this, one can see the most direct route to
Delhi is polar, but still on the Pacific side, over central Asia and Western China.
(yes I know there's an existing rule on that)

The closest major city is Ürümqui, in the Western desert region of Xingiang: the airport, from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_Diwopu_International_Airport

Okay, there's nothing into Delhi, but there are flights to Baku, Novosibirsk, Dushanbe, Moscow, Tashkent, Istanbul, Islamabad ....

Ürümqui is a hub for our Star Alliance friend China Southern.
Like that customs-free connector area proposed for YVR for ongoing flights to mining interests at Lima and Santiago
(both closer from YVR, in this instance than from YYZ) > hey, they might reciprocate, and do the similar for us.
That's if China and India can get a bilateral going of course.

Maybe it's a fanciful shot in the dark, but I was trying to think outside the box a bit.

deasine
Dec 29, 2013, 12:41 AM
http://www.airmilescalculator.com/distance/yvr-to-del/

Clicking on this, one can see the most direct route to
Delhi is polar, but still on the Pacific side, over central Asia and Western China.
(yes I know there's an existing rule on that)

The closest major city is Ürümqui, in the Western desert region of Xingiang: the airport, from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_Diwopu_International_Airport

Okay, there's nothing into Delhi, but there are flights to Baku, Novosibirsk, Dushanbe, Moscow, Tashkent, Istanbul, Islamabad ....

Ürümqui is a hub for our Star Alliance friend China Southern.
Like that customs-free connector area proposed for YVR for ongoing flights to mining interests at Lima and Santiago
(both closer from YVR, in this instance than from YYZ) > hey, they might reciprocate, and do the similar for us.
That's if China and India can get a bilateral going of course.

Maybe it's a fanciful shot in the dark, but I was trying to think outside the box a bit.

Note: CZ is SkyTeam and not Star Alliance. Small detail, but makes a big difference given that the only international Canadian carrier belongs in Star and not SkyTeam.

I'm not 100% sure what you are proposing/saying. If you are hoping CZ is to fly YVR-URC for connections to India, there doesn't really need to be a bilateral given that all three major Chinese airlines fly into India (I'm not sure if they have reached the maximum number of slots however, and if they are there needs to be discussion to expand the slots). If you are proposing AC or WS or any other North American carrier to fly to India via URC, that will not happen due to the following reasons: (1) URC has a small feed relative to many other secondary cities and Chinese hubs; (2) URC as a destination *currently* (I emphasise currently as West China is expected to significantly grow in the next decade) does not have sufficient O&D; and (3) China does not grant fifth freedoms, however, just *may be* a bit more flexible with secondary cities given their emphasis in their policy developments.

And yes as you indicated there is hardly any feed except for Central Asia, nothing to India. Growth in Central Asian countries will grow as West China and India continue to grow and develop, but this is definitely much longer term. Within the decade, I am quite sure there will be no need/insufficient demand for any flights to West China. Perhaps there will be another direct flight from Central Chinese cities, CTU (we currently have a 2 weekly flight there via SHE), CKG , XIY, and KMG to YVR: UA will launch CTU-SFO indicative of growing demand for West China and I can see AC launching a flight to a Chinese Secondary City as the growth and demand picks up. But this is definitely not in the short-term, especially since AC does not have a lot of spare planes.

If there is any direct YVR-India, it would likely come from Air India as they seemingly have the right to bleed money. Another possibility that may be more probable is from SQ's proposed Indian carrier, but this carrier won't launch international services right away until the Indian Aviation board gets rid of some onerous and frankly unnecessary restrictions. In the world of aviation, this is definitely one very interesting carrier to look out for: SQ is currently not doing very well due to the increased competition between Europe-Asia (from gulf carriers), many more SE Asia carriers stepping up, and limited geography of SIN. This Indian carrier has the potential to dramatically change SQs business and future network, pending changes in internal business operations/culture along with the deregulation of aviation in India.

Thousands Wouldn't
Dec 29, 2013, 2:09 AM
Is there a thread for the new outlet mall u/c at YVR?

Klazu
Dec 29, 2013, 5:15 AM
Rather than Air India, it would be great to see Kingfisher Airlines one day fly to YVR, maybe with one of their 800-seat Airbus 380's currently under order. One can dream. :rolleyes:

deasine
Dec 29, 2013, 5:47 AM
Rather than Air India, it would be great to see Kingfisher Airlines one day fly to YVR, maybe with one of their 800-seat Airbus 380's currently under order. One can dream. :rolleyes:

Kingfisher is long dead: a great example of an airline that was all about brand and couldn't control its own cost.

Is there a thread for the new outlet mall u/c at YVR?

This would be the thread for that.

Klazu
Dec 29, 2013, 2:50 PM
Kingfisher is long dead: a great example of an airline that was all about brand and couldn't control its own cost.

Oh, when did that happen?? :???: I never flew with them, but I was always curious about the fact of an Indian airline being five star. Shame. :(

Millennium2002
Dec 29, 2013, 11:05 PM
I actually think it only died recently in the past year or two... It's too bad really that they couldn't sustain themeselves.

trofirhen
Dec 30, 2013, 3:22 AM
Note: CZ is SkyTeam and not Star Alliance. Small detail, but makes a big difference given that the only international Canadian carrier belongs in Star and not SkyTeam.

I'm not 100% sure what you are proposing/saying. If you are hoping CZ is to fly YVR-URC for connections to India, there doesn't really need to be a bilateral given that all three major Chinese airlines fly into India (I'm not sure if they have reached the maximum number of slots however, and if they are there needs to be discussion to expand the slots). If you are proposing AC or WS or any other North American carrier to fly to India via URC, that will not happen due to the following reasons: (1) URC has a small feed relative to many other secondary cities and Chinese hubs; (2) URC as a destination *currently* (I emphasise currently as West China is expected to significantly grow in the next decade) does not have sufficient O&D; and (3) China does not grant fifth freedoms, however, just *may be* a bit more flexible with secondary cities given their emphasis in their policy developments.

And yes as you indicated there is hardly any feed except for Central Asia, nothing to India. Growth in Central Asian countries will grow as West China and India continue to grow and develop, but this is definitely much longer term. Within the decade, I am quite sure there will be no need/insufficient demand for any flights to West China. Perhaps there will be another direct flight from Central Chinese cities, CTU (we currently have a 2 weekly flight there via SHE), CKG , XIY, and KMG to YVR: UA will launch CTU-SFO indicative of growing demand for West China and I can see AC launching a flight to a Chinese Secondary City as the growth and demand picks up. But this is definitely not in the short-term, especially since AC does not have a lot of spare planes.

If there is any direct YVR-India, it would likely come from Air India as they seemingly have the right to bleed money. Another possibility that may be more probable is from SQ's proposed Indian carrier, but this carrier won't launch international services right away until the Indian Aviation board gets rid of some onerous and frankly unnecessary restrictions. In the world of aviation, this is definitely one very interesting carrier to look out for: SQ is currently not doing very well due to the increased competition between Europe-Asia (from gulf carriers), many more SE Asia carriers stepping up, and limited geography of SIN. This Indian carrier has the potential to dramatically change SQs business and future network, pending changes in internal business operations/culture along with the deregulation of aviation in India.

Are there any other airports that might work?

Vagabond
Dec 30, 2013, 3:45 AM
http://www.airmilescalculator.com/distance/yvr-to-del/

Clicking on this, one can see the most direct route to
Delhi is polar, but still on the Pacific side, over central Asia and Western China.
(yes I know there's an existing rule on that)

Another factor to consider is that commercial jets can't/don't fly over the highest sections of the Himalaya. I believe a YVR-DEL flight would likely have to turn south over Siberia/China and then "swing" around through eastern India (as do most of the East Asia-India flights). Even KE's ICN-KTM flight follows a similar route.

If there is any direct YVR-India, it would likely come from Air India as they seemingly have the right to bleed money

Air India has actually pulled up its socks over the past couple of years and is now operating at a somewhat acceptable (if still not respectable) level. This has been reflected by its tentative (and now likely) acceptance into Star Alliance (after years of dancing and dithering). Also, much of the negative press/reputation AI has received has been from its international flights, as on domestic India routes, AI is quite competitive.

AI's interest in codesharing with AC is a welcome development (IMO), as AC currently codeshares with Jet Airways (9W) on flights to India via LHR, with a lengthy layover going each way. AI's flights to/from LHR have much more reasonable layover times to/from YVR than 9W's, so a new AC-AI codeshare on Canada-India flights via LHR would be a logical first step towards greater integration (and potential non-stop flights).

Having done YVR-BOM (via ICN) recently, I can attest to how grueling 24 hours of travel can be (especially with small children!!) Anything that makes this journey easier would be very welcome from my (very selfish) perspective!

casper
Dec 31, 2013, 4:32 AM
Another factor to consider is that commercial jets can't/don't fly over the highest sections of the Himalaya. I believe a YVR-DEL flight would likely have to turn south over Siberia/China and then "swing" around through eastern India (as do most of the East Asia-India flights). Even KE's ICN-KTM flight follows a similar route.



Air India has actually pulled up its socks over the past couple of years and is now operating at a somewhat acceptable (if still not respectable) level. This has been reflected by its tentative (and now likely) acceptance into Star Alliance (after years of dancing and dithering). Also, much of the negative press/reputation AI has received has been from its international flights, as on domestic India routes, AI is quite competitive.

AI's interest in codesharing with AC is a welcome development (IMO), as AC currently codeshares with Jet Airways (9W) on flights to India via LHR, with a lengthy layover going each way. AI's flights to/from LHR have much more reasonable layover times to/from YVR than 9W's, so a new AC-AI codeshare on Canada-India flights via LHR would be a logical first step towards greater integration (and potential non-stop flights).

Having done YVR-BOM (via ICN) recently, I can attest to how grueling 24 hours of travel can be (especially with small children!!) Anything that makes this journey easier would be very welcome from my (very selfish) perspective!

Not certain if it is permitted under the various treaties, one option for Air Canada may be to use Narita as a stop on the way to India. If they can make the schedule work so that they have transfers at Narita to and from the Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto flight that may make the flight viable.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 31, 2013, 4:30 PM
Happy New Year everybody wherever you are.

Kicking off 2014 with another service increase.

US Airways is increasing PHX to 18 weekly next summer.

A new flight being added departing YVR at 1755 x123 on a 319. Arrives in PHX at 2058.

This latest addition pushes YVR transborder to over 80 daily flights including 50 daily mainline flights.

YVR has not seen this many transborder flights since 2008. So getting back to its peak slowly!

craneSpotter
Dec 31, 2013, 4:37 PM
Hmmm, Canada Jetlines is sounding more serious...maybe one business goal could be for them to collect (price sensitive - vacation package folks) leisure travellers from across the west (maybe even TO) for Asian connections at YVR.

In any case, it would be good to have an airline based at YVR...hope it flies ;)

Canada Jetlines names former Frontier Airlines executive as president

Financial Post Dec 31, 2013 (http://business.financialpost.com/2013/12/31/canada-jetlines-names-former-frontier-airlines-executive-as-president/)

Canada Jetlines Ltd. added to its executive ranks Monday with the appointment of former Frontier Airlines executive James Young as its new president.

Canada Jetlines is a new Vancouver-based ultra-low cost carrier that aims to to take the skies next year and plans to target several secondary and under-served markets in the West.

Vancouver’s Salman Partners is leading an effort to raise $100-million in financing to help with the launch of the discount airline, tentatively slated by the fall of 2014.

deasine
Jan 1, 2014, 4:31 AM
Not certain if it is permitted under the various treaties, one option for Air Canada may be to use Narita as a stop on the way to India. If they can make the schedule work so that they have transfers at Narita to and from the Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto flight that may make the flight viable.

The Japanese government has been insistent on allowing any more fifth freedoms in Tokyo. If it was via secondary cities like Osaka, there would be a higher likelihood of the government granting the route, but even then, just because AC has the right doesn't mean they would or even should operate the route. Having any fifth freedom flights means you most likely need a new base of FAs which can go against the existing unions and significant added costs, made worse since Japan has relatively high wages compared to other Asian countries. Moreover, with the weakening Japanese YEN and US carriers trying to decrease NRT importance in their TPAC networks, it makes less sense to fly via Japan.

Again I cite AAs direct ORD-DEL as the prime example: just because a route has high load factors doesn't mean a route can be financially feasible. Traffic to India is highly cyclical based on seasons and is also generally low yielding. Yet despite having high yields in business class, AA could not make the route work due to fuel costs and lack of onward feed.

Responding to trohifen's question on which city, I don't think anything is particularly wrong with existing hubs. If it has to be a new route then I think EK is the only logical contender and even then there are current Transport Canada restrictions.

trofirhen
Jan 1, 2014, 2:48 PM
The Japanese government has been insistent on allowing any more fifth freedoms in Tokyo. If it was via secondary cities like Osaka, there would be a higher likelihood of the government granting the route, but even then, just because AC has the right doesn't mean they would or even should operate the route. Having any fifth freedom flights means you most likely need a new base of FAs which can go against the existing unions and significant added costs, made worse since Japan has relatively high wages compared to other Asian countries. Moreover, with the weakening Japanese YEN and US carriers trying to decrease NRT importance in their TPAC networks, it makes less sense to fly via Japan.

Again I cite AAs direct ORD-DEL as the prime example: just because a route has high load factors doesn't mean a route can be financially feasible. Traffic to India is highly cyclical based on seasons and is also generally low yielding. Yet despite having high yields in business class, AA could not make the route work due to fuel costs and lack of onward feed.

Responding to trohifen's question on which city, I don't think anything is particularly wrong with existing hubs. If it has to be a new route then I think EK is the only logical contender and even then there are current Transport Canada restrictions.

Regarding a route to India, from what you have stated above, it seems as if we're stuck, and can't really find a more direct route. A shame, really.

casper
Jan 2, 2014, 6:22 PM
The Japanese government has been insistent on allowing any more fifth freedoms in Tokyo. If it was via secondary cities like Osaka, there would be a higher likelihood of the government granting the route, but even then, just because AC has the right doesn't mean they would or even should operate the route. Having any fifth freedom flights means you most likely need a new base of FAs which can go against the existing unions and significant added costs, made worse since Japan has relatively high wages compared to other Asian countries. Moreover, with the weakening Japanese YEN and US carriers trying to decrease NRT importance in their TPAC networks, it makes less sense to fly via Japan.

Again I cite AAs direct ORD-DEL as the prime example: just because a route has high load factors doesn't mean a route can be financially feasible. Traffic to India is highly cyclical based on seasons and is also generally low yielding. Yet despite having high yields in business class, AA could not make the route work due to fuel costs and lack of onward feed.

Responding to trohifen's question on which city, I don't think anything is particularly wrong with existing hubs. If it has to be a new route then I think EK is the only logical contender and even then there are current Transport Canada restrictions.

I would view in the same way as Zurich. When Air Canada last operated flights to India it was via a city in Europe that had fifth freedom rights from. In the case of Zurich it was a city that was a summer only service and with the tag on to India it provided sufficient demand to go year round. Swiss code shared on both legs included the leg into India. I do not believe they opened up any new flight attendant bases.

Air Canada currently has three flights into Tokyo some with the smallest wide-body in the fleet and the local market is not growing. If they can get the rights, make the code shares work it might help support the existing flights to japan.

deasine
Jan 2, 2014, 9:13 PM
I would view in the same way as Zurich. When Air Canada last operated flights to India it was via a city in Europe that had fifth freedom rights from. In the case of Zurich it was a city that was a summer only service and with the tag on to India it provided sufficient demand to go year round. Swiss code shared on both legs included the leg into India. I do not believe they opened up any new flight attendant bases.

I believe, and cannot be 100% sure, that it was via London Heathrow in which we did have a staff base there.

If there is no base, then you are essentially going to base these FAs in Canada, pay to fly them to whatever fifth freedom city, and then pay them to fly onwards to India again.

casper
Jan 2, 2014, 9:46 PM
I believe, and cannot be 100% sure, that it was via London Heathrow in which we did have a staff base there.

If there is no base, then you are essentially going to base these FAs in Canada, pay to fly them to whatever fifth freedom city, and then pay them to fly onwards to India again.

I think they tried London much farther back in time. I have never been to India however back when they were operating this I did the odd trip to Zurich. A copy of the press release is in the link below....

Looks like they also tried non-stop from Toronto using the Airbus 340-500 before switching to the Zurich flight. Zurich and Geneva are nice business markets, the problem is filling the economy seats in the winter.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/450738-air-canada-serve-delhi-via-zurich.html

Not certain about the crew. I would think day one you fly to Zurich. Rest overnight, then fly to India, overnight, then fly back to Zurich, overnight and then fly back to Canada.

trofirhen
Jan 2, 2014, 10:11 PM
Here's the conventional run via London:
http://www.airmilescalculator.com/distance3/yvr-to-lhr-del/

and here's via Tokyo:
http://www.airmilescalculator.com/distance3/yvr-to-hnd-del/

from YYZ via Zurich
http://www.airmilescalculator.com/distance3/yyz-to-zrh-del/

and, just for interest, from Seoul.
http://www.airmilescalculator.com/distance3/yvr-to-icn-del/
Now, please count the distance among the four routes and notice the differences and similarities.
Feasibility analysis I leave to the more knowledgeable on the topic.

deasine
Jan 2, 2014, 10:12 PM
I think they tried London much farther back in time. I have never been to India however back when they were operating this I did the odd trip to Zurich. A copy of the press release is in the link below....

Looks like they also tried non-stop from Toronto using the Airbus 340-500 before switching to the Zurich flight. Zurich and Geneva are nice business markets, the problem is filling the economy seats in the winter.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/450738-air-canada-serve-delhi-via-zurich.html

Not certain about the crew. I would think day one you fly to Zurich. Rest overnight, then fly to India, overnight, then fly back to Zurich, overnight and then fly back to Canada.

The thing is, why fly the fifth freedom when a partner could do it. This has been the changing approach for aviation now: making use of existing resources of partners as opposed to doing it yourself (especially when the partner flies there anyway). It reduces risk/necessity to need to fly all the way there and frees up aircraft and staff to fly other routes. If there was a sufficient demand steady throughout the entire year, it may be possible for AC to support a direct (not necessarily non-stop) flight. However, as I mentioned before, demand to India is very seasonal and low yielding, and with so many competitors, from CX and CI via Asia, BA and LH via Europe, or EK and EY via Gulf, it's incredibly difficult for AC to position themselves amongst so many competitors in a market that does not have much profits to begin with.

trofirhen
Jan 2, 2014, 10:32 PM
http://www.airmilescalculator.com/distance3/yvr-to-ctu-del/
via Chengdu

This run is even a tad shorter than YYZ - ZHR - DEL
(alas, no connecting flights to Delhi it seems; but it does show a potentially shorter route)

Genauso
Jan 7, 2014, 7:05 PM
I wonder how much the new list of passenger rights will make airlines consider routing flights through airports prone to inclement weather, or at least the pricing of the same.

excel
Jan 7, 2014, 9:54 PM
YVR AIRSIDE OPERATIONS BUILDING UNDER CONSTRUCTION
POSTED ON JANUARY 1ST, 2014

The new Airside Operations Facility at Vancouver International Airport is well underway. Slated for completion in October of 2014, the project will enhance overall safety and efficiency as well as adequately serve current and future airport operations. The 8,626 square meter building comprises a new fire hall, maintenance bays, indoor parking garage, materials storage building with vehicle wash bays and a fuelling complex. The project will also serve as a central hub of operations and a staging area for all airside maintenance activities.

http://www.franclarchitecture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/YVRAO2.jpg
http://www.franclarchitecture.com/yvr-airside-operations-building-under-construction

http://www.franclarchitecture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/YVRAO.jpg
http://www.franclarchitecture.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/YVRAO.jpg

Johnny Aussie
Jan 8, 2014, 12:14 PM
Taking advantage of the new Taiwan - Canada bilateral allowing more flights, EVA Air increasing YVR-TPE to 4 weekly effective June 2014.

YYZ also being bumped to 4 weekly.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 8, 2014, 12:20 PM
Effective 1 March JAL changing their daily YVR-NRT flight to a 788.

Good move on their part. Decrease in capacity but improved product to compete with ANA/AC.

http://airlineroute.net/2014/01/08/jl-feb14/

deasine
Jan 9, 2014, 1:02 AM
Effective 1 March JAL changing their daily YVR-NRT flight to a 788.

Good move on their part. Decrease in capacity but improved product to compete with ANA/AC.

http://airlineroute.net/2014/01/08/jl-feb14/

Beat me to it, but I'm not so sure it's an improved product per say. In J, the product goes from refirbished 767s with the SkySuite II which is a lie-flat, staggered product 1-2-1 (all with direct aisle access, similar seats to ACs 777 HDs but given the smaller fuselage, it is more private with more space per passenger) to a angled lie-flat in a traditional 2-2-2 configuration.

Gordon
Jan 9, 2014, 3:43 AM
Sichuan has decreased its service yve to chengdu from 3 \ week to 2 \wk from feb to june 2014.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 9, 2014, 4:52 PM
Sichuan has decreased its service yve to chengdu from 3 \ week to 2 \wk from feb to june 2014.

Yup, same seasonal reduction as last year.

Right now they are only showing 3 weekly for the summer 2014 scheds. It was 4 per week last year. A bit too early for that to be confirmed as I would expect it to go up to 4 again in the summer. Probably in Feb.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 9, 2014, 5:00 PM
Beat me to it, but I'm not so sure it's an improved product per say. In J, the product goes from refirbished 767s with the SkySuite II which is a lie-flat, staggered product 1-2-1 (all with direct aisle access, similar seats to ACs 777 HDs but given the smaller fuselage, it is more private with more space per passenger) to a angled lie-flat in a traditional 2-2-2 configuration.

Now that I have looked into it a bit more I see your point. I've been a bit hasty with some posts lately as my time to investigate scoops is limited right now as I am gallivanting around! In New Orleans right now finally escaping the deep freeze!

Also, now that I have looked into this even further, this may be only a temporary change. The JAL press release about the 787s is a bit vague.

https://www.jal.co.jp/en/info/other/131123.html

Valley_Refugee
Jan 9, 2014, 5:57 PM
November passenger stats are out. Overall up 1.7% through the first 11 months of 2013. If that trend holds through December, it will be a record year for YVR: almost 17.9M pax.

http://www.yvr.ca/Libraries/Aviation_Marketing/November_2013_Traffic_Update.sflb.ashx

teriyaki
Jan 9, 2014, 6:31 PM
Now that I have looked into it a bit more I see your point. I've been a bit hasty with some posts lately as my time to investigate scoops is limited right now as I am gallivanting around! In New Orleans right now finally escaping the deep freeze!

Also, now that I have looked into this even further, this may be only a temporary change. The JAL press release about the 787s is a bit vague.

https://www.jal.co.jp/en/info/other/131123.html

Interesting. Looks like they're diverting their 787's away from routes that have a higher possibility of thunderstorms (depending on the season). The 787 can never seem to get a break from the bad press it seems.

With that said, doesn't look like this will affect ANA's 787s since they're powered by RR Trent englines.

casper
Jan 11, 2014, 4:50 AM
This is sad news about the person who passed away in Edmonton

http://www.flyertalk.com/the-gate/blog/26449-first-bird-flu-fatality-in-north-america-confirmed-should-you-be-concerned.html

Given the challenges of handling the volume of passengers through an airport the size of Vancouver I don't know if there is much more than can be done in a situation such as this.

Denscity
Jan 14, 2014, 8:11 PM
CBC News is today reporting the hiring of 100s of flight attendants for Rouge based in Vancouver.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 15, 2014, 3:07 AM
More info here.

http://www.biv.com/article/20140114/BIV0118/140119962/air-canada-rouge-joins-proposed-canada-jetlines-with-hiring-spree-in

Sounds like Jetlines has also actually already hired 31 "executive" positions. I am still quite skeptical about that proposal, but sounds like some pretty big things happening at YVR for 2014.

Spork
Jan 15, 2014, 6:34 AM
My coworker (I work in aviation) came across this when searching for their AOC on Google, which provides more insight into their operations: http://gallery.mailchimp.com/3fe59de94ddb787df64b54943/files/Jetlines_Note_14_Nov_13.pdf

Source: This Search (https://www.google.ca/search?q=canada+jetlines+aoc&oq=canada+jetlines+aoc&aqs=chrome..69i57.6444j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8)

craneSpotter
Jan 15, 2014, 3:00 PM
Good news for YVR :)

In Canada, Cathay sticking to its focus on Vancouver and Toronto

Van Sun Jan 14, 2014 (http://www.vancouversun.com/Canada+Cathay+sticking+focus+Vancouver+Toronto/9387704/story.html#ixzz2qTme17jJ)

As airline competition intensifies to meet growing demand for travel between Asia and North America, Cathay Pacific is focusing its Canadian operations on Vancouver and Toronto.

“The growth in seats from mainland China alone into Canada (during 2013) is about 70 per cent,” Cathay’s incoming chief operating officer Rupert Hogg told a Hong Kong-Canada Business Association luncheon on Tuesday.

Delta Air Lines is preparing to launch Seattle-to-Hong Kong flights, and last summer, China Eastern Airlines increased flights between Vancouver and Shanghai to twice daily.

Cathay flies twice-daily non-stop Vancouver-Hong Kong, and 10 times a week between Toronto and Hong Kong. The airline employs 700 in Canada, 500 of whom are in Vancouver, which is also Cathay’s call centre for North America.

Gordon
Jan 15, 2014, 4:00 PM
Are there any construction updates for the Pier A\B connector project?

The temporary set up for Pier B seems to work pretty well.

Valley_Refugee
Jan 15, 2014, 5:52 PM
Regarding Rouge's expansion into YVR, the obvious routes it will take over are Las Vegas, Puerto Vallarta, Cabo, Ixtapa, and all the Hawaiian routes. Speculation as to new routes? A return to Cancun is likely, I'd say. Perhaps Orlando? Caribbean?

teriyaki
Jan 16, 2014, 5:07 AM
A birdie tells me there are rumblings of a mainland China route. Not too sure about the credibility of this.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 16, 2014, 5:15 AM
A birdie tells me there are rumblings of a mainland China route. Not too sure about the credibility of this.

You mean another mainland China route?

My bet would be on Xiamen Airlines.

Hint is towards the bottom of this article from November

http://www.bcbusiness.ca/manufacturing-transport/yvr-looks-into-new-routes-to-china-south-america

Bigtime
Jan 16, 2014, 3:54 PM
Yikes:

"An Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-400, registration N756AS performing flight AS-703 from Los Angeles,CA (USA) to Vancouver,BC (Canada), was on final approach to Vancouver's runway 08L at 1900 feet about 6.5nm behind an Air Canada Airbus A330-300, registration C-GFAJ performing flight AC-855 from London Heathrow,EN (UK) to Vancouver,BC (Canada), when the aircraft rolled left to 70 degrees of bank twice. The crew continued the approach for a safe landing."

http://avherald.com/h?article=46e90ec2&opt=1

trofirhen
Jan 16, 2014, 6:11 PM
Regarding Rouge's expansion into YVR, the obvious routes it will take over are Las Vegas, Puerto Vallarta, Cabo, Ixtapa, and all the Hawaiian routes. Speculation as to new routes? A return to Cancun is likely, I'd say. Perhaps Orlando? Caribbean?
I wonder what the competition on routes to Hawaii and Mexico would mean for WestJet? How hard a hit would they take?
As for Orlando, that'd be great. I wonder if there's enough YVR > Caribbean holiday pax volume to justify flights there? Be nifty if there were.

Gordon
Jan 16, 2014, 6:53 PM
Air Canada already competes with Westjet on Some Hawaii & Mexico routes.

Mapsbyair.com has a fairly recent aerial photo of the pier a\B area @yvr

whatnext
Jan 16, 2014, 8:25 PM
Regarding Rouge's expansion into YVR, the obvious routes it will take over are Las Vegas, Puerto Vallarta, Cabo, Ixtapa, and all the Hawaiian routes. Speculation as to new routes? A return to Cancun is likely, I'd say. Perhaps Orlando? Caribbean?

Closer to home they should be flying the 319's to Palm Springs rather than leave that market to Westjet.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 16, 2014, 8:47 PM
Closer to home they should be flying the 319's to Palm Springs rather than leave that market to Westjet.

Yup. Basically take a look at Sunwing/Air Transat/Westjet route maps and those will be the main targets I am sure. Will be good to have even more competition on the sun routes. We will all know in a couple weeks! It will depend of course on how many frames they base in YVR.

Valley_Refugee
Jan 17, 2014, 5:53 PM
Yup. Basically take a look at Sunwing/Air Transat/Westjet route maps and those will be the main targets I am sure. Will be good to have even more competition on the sun routes. We will all know in a couple weeks! It will depend of course on how many frames they base in YVR.

Yes, a solid bet. I am hoping they'll base a few 767's here for some new summer seasonal Europe routes. Paris, Rome, Edinburgh?

Johnny Aussie
Jan 20, 2014, 9:52 PM
Westjet has just released their summer 2014 schedules.

YVR highlights:

New daily Encore to YMM

LAX increasing to 19 weekly from 14
PSP now year-round 2 weekly for the summer

Transborder will now have 10 daily flights.

A bit of shuffling around with mainline and Encore.

Mainline will be down 14 flights per week.
Encore will have 84 flights per week up from 14 last summer (YXT, YKA and YMM are new routes compared to last summer with additional YYJ and YXJ flying)

So the total Westjet operation increases to 63 daily flights up from 55 last summer.

Pinion
Jan 20, 2014, 11:38 PM
No news on flights to EMD, GFY and WTF?

Valley_Refugee
Jan 21, 2014, 7:57 PM
No news on flights to EMD, GFY and WTF?

Seriously? :sly:

SpongeG
Jan 21, 2014, 8:09 PM
is there a code to these things? what is PSP?

Pinion
Jan 21, 2014, 8:17 PM
Seriously? :sly:

Just wish I could understand what was being said without googling every acronym. A crude way of expressing it I admit.

trofirhen
Jan 21, 2014, 9:31 PM
Observing great circle maps, and world longitudinal and latitudinal lines, thoroughly aware that Vancouver's destinations are obviously transpacific (and that includes Delhi),
I tried to find - (but could not, someone else surely can, and might even post, if interested) -
the antipodes of 123W longitude; that's us.
(latitude is secondary here, for the moment.)
Anyway the opposite longitudinal line from Vancouver goes up the Indian Ocean, bisects eastern Oman, crosses the Gulf around the straits of Hormuz, and so northward through Iran, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, and so through Siberia and over the pole.

It doesn't appear that VYR is going to gt any Persian Gulf destination, any time soon, but there are one or two major connection points that could make YVR just one change of plane away from anywhere.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/Oc%C3%A9an_Indien.png/250px-Oc%C3%A9an_Indien.png

Looking at the Indian Ocean, and referring to the Great Circle mapper, two key destinations would cover major regions.

One of course is Delhi, which seems to show signs of possible reappearing life.

The other (although held down firmly by YYZ, with only a three-day-per week offering to YUL) is ***Turkish. .......... but there's always hope.

IST is the closest point the Gulf States, to most of the Middle East, including Iran, central Asia and the Caucasus republics, and even including the Seychelles, giving a shorter distance than by LHR. (for whatever that's worth.)

I guess the point I'm making is that Qatar and Dubai, though prestigious ports of call, aren't everything.
Get Istanbul and Delhi hooked up and we're a maximum one-stop airport to just about anywhere.

Valley_Refugee
Jan 21, 2014, 11:45 PM
is there a code to these things? what is PSP?

PSP is Palm Springs International Airport's IATA code.

I admit that we get pretty aviation geeky on here (though Calgary's thread is even more intense), but the answers to these questions are relatively easy to find with a small amount of Googling/digging :)

twoNeurons
Jan 22, 2014, 12:40 AM
Just wish I could understand what was being said without googling every acronym. A crude way of expressing it I admit.

This belongs here:
GDeqc8sTLpc

whatnext
Jan 22, 2014, 3:16 AM
Just wish I could understand what was being said without googling every acronym. A crude way of expressing it I admit.

Don't be a DIK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickinson_Theodore_Roosevelt_Regional_Airport). :haha:

Johnny Aussie
Jan 22, 2014, 9:02 AM
Further hint about Xiamen Airlines launching 787s to international destinations.

YVR is specifically mentioned along with New York, Paris, Amsterdam and Sydney. Article is dated April 2013 but this is the first time I have actually seen this article and seeing YVR specifically mentioned.

http://m.atwonline.com/airframes/xiamen-airlines-introduce-first-boeing-787-july-2014

trofirhen
Jan 22, 2014, 12:33 PM
Further hint about Xiamen Airlines launching 787s to international destinations.

YVR is specifically mentioned along with New York, Paris, Amsterdam and Sydney. Article is dated April 2013 but this is the first time I have actually seen this article and seeing YVR specifically mentioned.

http://m.atwonline.com/airframes/xiamen-airlines-introduce-first-boeing-787-july-2014
Giving further clout to YVR as the primary North America - Asia gateway, and, hopefully, strengthening YVR's concept of becoming that Asia-South America link that airport officials are vying for.

connect2source
Jan 23, 2014, 1:20 AM
Record year for passenger numbers in 2013 just 28K shy of 18 million!

December 2013 was particularly strong, domestic way up!

http://yvr.ca/Libraries/Aviation_Marketing/1992-2013_Enplaned_and_Deplaned_Passengers_Dec_2013.sflb.ashx

phesto
Jan 23, 2014, 1:52 AM
Record year for passenger numbers in 2013 just 28K shy of 18 million!

December 2013 was particularly strong, domestic way up!

http://yvr.ca/Libraries/Aviation_Marketing/1992-2013_Enplaned_and_Deplaned_Passengers_Dec_2013.sflb.ashx

Thanks. For some reason I thought 2013 would show better than 2% overall growth. Glad to see we're finally back above 2008 numbers though.

If 2.1% growth were sustained, we'd be at 24 Million by 2027. (just 10 Million shy of YVR's 2005 Master Plan estimate)

Johnny Aussie
Jan 23, 2014, 2:49 AM
Thanks. For some reason I thought 2013 would show better than 2% overall growth. Glad to see we're finally back above 2008 numbers though.

Yup and look at the Asia Pacific explosion in December. Expected but surprised that didn't take off sooner.

2014 is shaping up to be pretty good so far as well.

deasine
Jan 27, 2014, 8:08 PM
Ground breaks on new luxury outlet mall near YVR

By Peter Meiszner Global News

http://i0.wp.com/vipmedia.globalnews.ca/2014/01/2014_01_14_mcarthurglen-vancouver-main-entrance.jpg?crop=266px%2C0px%2C3468px%2C2313px&resize=720%2C480
Rendering of the proposed entrance to the outlet mall, inspired by iconic B.C. architecture.

Vancouver Airport Authority
Construction of a luxury outlet mall near the Vancouver International Airport has started.

The McArthurGlen Designer Outlet Vancouver Airport will occupy 30 acres next to the airport, and 376,000 square feet of retail space once development is complete. The site will be developed in two phases and is close to the Canada Line Templeton station.

“McArthurGlen Designer Outlet Vancouver Airport will offer a highly distinctive, luxury-oriented retail destination in Vancouver,” says Joan Jove, McArthurGlen’s Development Director for North America. “We are already seeing strong interest from leading European and North American fashion brands. Vancouver offers an excellent location, economic strength, tourism potential, as well as a strong partner in the Vancouver Airport Authority – all elements that guarantee success when opening a premium retail centre.”

In Europe, McArthurGlen outlets are known for retailers such as Prada, Armani, Burberry and Michael Kors.

The outlet mall will feature two “luxury piazzas,” according to the developer. There will be pedestrian-friendly walkways, tree-lined streets and the architecture will be inspired by historic Vancouver buildings including the Sinclair Centre, the Rowing Club and the Gastown neighhourhood.

B.C. residents are some of the best customers of the Seattle Premium Outlets in Washington State.

The Richmond development is expected to create 1,000 jobs.

This is McArthurGlen’s first outlet mall in North America. It will open to shoppers in 2015.
http://vipmedia.globalnews.ca/2014/01/siteplan.jpg?w=1133&h=736&crop=1



From Global

MalcolmTucker
Jan 27, 2014, 8:14 PM
I hope there is a good reason the site design isn't flipped with the shops closer to the train station.

Vancity
Jan 27, 2014, 8:19 PM
I hope there is a good reason the site design isn't flipped with the shops closer to the train station.

yeah. that doesn't make sense. i hope they've got a good reason why the shops aren't closer to the station...less walking distance. this might discourage people from actually taking transit, and just driving there.

deasine
Jan 27, 2014, 8:23 PM
*I believe* there is an existing parking lot there already, and it would be easier (and cheaper) to build the mall on land that was not already developed. I did, however, make such comments to YVR during the planning stages to no avail...

lightrail
Jan 27, 2014, 8:31 PM
From Global

This is terrible. Designed once again with the car in mind, no consideration for transit. Why put the a massive parking lot between the mall and the transit station? There isn't even a dedicated walking route - transit passengers have to find their way across a parking lot.

And when they leave the mall, they get to pay the $5 airport surcharge on the transit ticket - yet parking will be free.

This development is badly located and will not do anything to enhance the region at all - it's a step backwards - shame on the airport authority.

Klazu
Jan 27, 2014, 8:46 PM
And when they leave the mall, they get to pay the $5 airport surcharge on the transit ticket - yet parking will be free.

Wasn't the Skytrain ride between airport and mall going to be free?

Like everyone else, I hate them placing it to the wrong corner, but I do like the architecture. Yes, it's a outlet mall, but looks more high-end than normally.

officedweller
Jan 27, 2014, 8:47 PM
This is terrible. Designed once again with the car in mind, no consideration for transit. Why put the a massive parking lot between the mall and the transit station? There isn't even a dedicated walking route - transit passengers have to find their way across a parking lot.



Items 2 and 3 on the map say covered pedestrian walkway.

**

In terms of development plans -
This configuration probably gives YVR more flexibility to up-zone the parking lot area closer to the station in future if desired
(without demolishing the existing space). The mall is only one storey - which wouldn't suit a site immediately next to the station.
It would be harder to place denser uses on the periphery of the site in future (if the parking lot were around back).

teriyaki
Jan 27, 2014, 10:56 PM
Items 2 and 3 on the map say covered pedestrian walkway.

**

In terms of development plans -
This configuration probably gives YVR more flexibility to up-zone the parking lot area closer to the station in future if desired
(without demolishing the existing space). The mall is only one storey - which wouldn't suit a site immediately next to the station.
It would be harder to place denser uses on the periphery of the site in future (if the parking lot were around back).

Makes some sense if you look at it from a future-proof perspective. Still too bad its such a far walk from the station.

New parking lot will be a great place to spot some planes on approach to the north runway though. Also too bad there doesn't seem to be any sort of observation deck or even elevated platform being considered. Build a 2 storey building with expansive views of YVR and i'd pay just to get in. :slob:

officedweller
Jan 27, 2014, 11:05 PM
There's supposed to be an adjacent office park too - but they haven't released details as far as I know.

Zassk
Jan 27, 2014, 11:52 PM
Makes some sense if you look at it from a future-proof perspective. Still too bad its such a far walk from the station.

The site isn't that big. It's 200 meters from Templeton Station to the main mall entrance. That's less distance than walking from the Seabus to Starbucks inside Waterfront Station. It's also less distance than walking from Metrotown Station to Metrotower 2.

spm2013
Jan 28, 2014, 12:09 AM
Yeah someone mentioned in one of the threads about the outlet mall that there are plans to build additional mall space if needed where the current parking lot.

If you can't walk 200m buy a car I guess. :)

spm2013
Jan 28, 2014, 12:26 AM
Design elements are inspired by iconic Vancouver architecture, including the city’s first post-office building, c. 1937 (now part of the Sinclair Centre complex), the Vancouver Rowing Club, c.1911, and the distinctive brick facades associated with historic Gastown.

http://www.yvr.ca/en/flight-information/latest-information/14-01-27/Construction_Begins_on_Sea_Island_Luxury_Designer_Outlet-4181656697.aspx

giallo
Jan 28, 2014, 2:02 AM
A 200m walk is easy, and if it's going to be covered then I can't really see what the problem is.

spm2013
Jan 28, 2014, 2:13 AM
Moving sidewalks for the win :)

rsxstock
Jan 28, 2014, 2:40 AM
i agree location is quite poor. they should also at least have some covering like what the seattle premium outlet has. this being vancouver... how annoying would it be to open and close your umbrella for every store

city guy
Jan 28, 2014, 3:21 AM
I can't believe what a kitschy piece of design this is going to be…and it will be the gateway element to the airport coming off the Arthur Lang!…Why don't we just build sleeping beauty's castle instead? Put this next to the casino project and you have an embarrassing portrayal of our region as a goofy theme-park

city guy
Jan 28, 2014, 3:23 AM
I can't believe what a kitschy piece of design this is going to be…and it will be the gateway element to the airport coming off the Arthur Lang!…Why don't we just build sleeping beauty's castle instead? Put this next to the casino project and you have an embarrassing portrayal of our region as a goofy theme-park

moreover, with all the endless rhetoric which floats around our region as an epicenter of sustainability and this mess of architecture isn't even accessible to transit

Infrequent Poster
Jan 28, 2014, 4:13 AM
i agree location is quite poor. they should also at least have some covering like what the seattle premium outlet has. this being vancouver... how annoying would it be to open and close your umbrella for every store

I don't use an umbrella ever, (but I have opened and closed one before) is it really that annoying to open and close one? Would you choose to shop somewhere else because you had to open and close your umbrella a couple of times?

spm2013
Jan 28, 2014, 4:26 AM
So we've established it's around 200m from the Skytrain station to the entrance but somehow it's still not accessible to public transit?

Infrequent Poster
Jan 28, 2014, 4:32 AM
Its 200m.... this is probably going to take almost 90 seconds to walk, clearly this is not accessible to transit.

whatnext
Jan 28, 2014, 5:01 AM
This is terrible. Designed once again with the car in mind, no consideration for transit. Why put the a massive parking lot between the mall and the transit station? There isn't even a dedicated walking route - transit passengers have to find their way across a parking lot.

And when they leave the mall, they get to pay the $5 airport surcharge on the transit ticket - yet parking will be free.

This development is badly located and will not do anything to enhance the region at all - it's a step backwards - shame on the airport authority.

I forgot about the surcharge, that will be the transit dealbreaker for this mall.

Anyone know what they are doing do the overpass on Templeton over the tracks? Looks like some major work.

memememe76
Jan 28, 2014, 5:14 AM
Wasn't the Skytrain ride between airport and mall going to be free?

If that is the case, then I would tell friends/family not from the Lower Mainland to take the Canada Line to Templeton, and then get a ticket at that station to avoid the $5 surcharge.

And when I have to pick up people at YVR, I would park at the free parking lot and take the free ride to YVR (and back).

I am pretty sure it will take more than a minute and a half to get from the Station to the Mall. But then, Skytrain has this annoying habit of not having their Stations as near the malls as possible. Surrey Central, Brentwood, Metrotown, (at least it's covered--for now), Lougheed, Coquitlam Centre, Landsdowne, Aberdeen. Only Richmond Centre, Pacific Centre and Oakridge are really close to their stations.

twoNeurons
Jan 28, 2014, 5:36 AM
Parking being on the same side as the other parking will allow them to adjust where parking is needed. If this mall gets less car traffic, the airport can use the overflow, if it gets more, the parking can easily be expanded.

Vin
Jan 28, 2014, 8:42 AM
If that is the case, then I would tell friends/family not from the Lower Mainland to take the Canada Line to Templeton, and then get a ticket at that station to avoid the $5 surcharge.

And when I have to pick up people at YVR, I would park at the free parking lot and take the free ride to YVR (and back).

I am pretty sure it will take more than a minute and a half to get from the Station to the Mall. But then, Skytrain has this annoying habit of not having their Stations as near the malls as possible. Surrey Central, Brentwood, Metrotown, (at least it's covered--for now), Lougheed, Coquitlam Centre, Landsdowne, Aberdeen. Only Richmond Centre, Pacific Centre and Oakridge are really close to their stations.

Aberdeen will be connected to the station with the new wing opening.

Vin
Jan 28, 2014, 8:46 AM
I don't use an umbrella ever, (but I have opened and closed one before) is it really that annoying to open and close one? Would you choose to shop somewhere else because you had to open and close your umbrella a couple of times?

Everyone has his/her quirks, and we should learn not to impose our own standards on others, as long as yours isn't jeopardized.

Vin
Jan 28, 2014, 8:48 AM
I kinda like the design, but agree that there should be more rain shelters. You don't want to get your Armani suit wet.

Acey
Jan 28, 2014, 2:31 PM
WestJet magic plane will be in YVR today, ETA 4:10 pm. Hasn't been in YVR since December 28.

trofirhen
Jan 28, 2014, 2:42 PM
I can't believe what a kitschy piece of design this is going to be…and it will be the gateway element to the airport coming off the Arthur Lang!…Why don't we just build sleeping beauty's castle instead? Put this next to the casino project and you have an embarrassing portrayal of our region as a goofy theme-park
That thought struck me, too, when I saw the shopping centre design. :koko:
Why can't it be cool and sleek-looking?

osirisboy
Jan 28, 2014, 2:56 PM
Guys relax it's a friggin outlet mall! And for an outlet mall it looks fine.

moosejaw
Jan 28, 2014, 4:45 PM
The outlet mall in a way is kind of theatrical, maybe disney-esque.
I would imagine weather wouldn't play more of a factor than it does than walking at the mall by Queensboro bridge

SpongeG
Jan 28, 2014, 6:20 PM
it looks comparable to what they build in europe, architecture wise and it couldn't be any closer to the station - really people whining about 200m? seriously?

anyway anyone who seriously shops will drive anyway, who wants to carry a dozen bags around on the train...

PaperTiger
Jan 28, 2014, 7:05 PM
December stats are out. Looks like we just missed 18 million passangers for the year. Still a 2.1% increase over 2012.

http://www.yvr.ca/Libraries/Aviation_Marketing/December_2013_Traffic_Update.sflb.ashx

Edit: Nevermind. I see that I missed the previous post in all the excitement over the outlet mall.

Cage
Jan 28, 2014, 7:22 PM
I hope there is a good reason the site design isn't flipped with the shops closer to the train station.

Don't tell the Vancouverites but there is an airport very near the proposed shopping mall. hahaha!

The main reason for putting the retail location as far away as possible from the runway is to provide as much room as possible and have as much flexibility as possible for any future runway regulations. Toronto's 23/5 runway is dangerously close to development, if rules around runway arrest zones change, the threshold for runway 5 could get pushed farther away from the retail and warehouse district located. Vancouver cannot afford the potential for this regulatory risk.

Additional reason is that once the employee long term parking was moved to Templeton area, the employee lot was given most favoured customer status and gets to park as close to the station as possible. IIRC the templeton lot is used by Vancouver origin flight crews, currently only AC and CX have a crew base at YVR, but WS could implement a crew base at any time.