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Hourglass
Jul 18, 2014, 11:58 AM
interesting article on Air Canada, including a section about YVR. The market share breakdown on Asian routes for YYZ and YVR is particularly interesting.

Air Canada Moves to Attract More 6th Freedom Traffic (http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/air-canada-moves-to-attract-more-us-sixth-freedom-traffic-but-new-pressures-await-177679)

trofirhen
Jul 18, 2014, 12:54 PM
Thank you, Hourglass. Really interesting. Also worth note is this link taken from the same article.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/delta-air-lines-latest-punch-at-alaska-in-seattle-is-an-effort-to-siphon-traffic-from-vancouver-142676

Johnny Aussie
Jul 18, 2014, 11:23 PM
Thank you, Hourglass. Really interesting. Also worth note is this link taken from the same article.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/delta-air-lines-latest-punch-at-alaska-in-seattle-is-an-effort-to-siphon-traffic-from-vancouver-142676

And yes, this article was posted, linked and discussed ad nauseum back in December 2013.... shall we start that over again?

trofirhen
Jul 18, 2014, 11:33 PM
And yes, this article was posted, linked and discussed ad nauseum back in December 2013.... shall we start that over again?
Mea Culpa :whip2

Johnny Aussie
Jul 18, 2014, 11:38 PM
Mea Culpa :whip2

It's all good! Just didn't want to have to go and cut and paste the days of discussion on that one again!

Hourglass
Jul 19, 2014, 3:12 AM
It's all good! Just didn't want to have to go and cut and paste the days of discussion on that one again!

But it was such an enjoyable discussion, lol

Jury's still out on the long term effects of DL and SEA, methinks. However, was checking out airfares from HKG to YVR via SEA, and introductory fares aside, the price wasn't that much cheaper than AC or CX.

It seems to me that YVR's core strength is the range of international carriers serving it. Interesting that Air Canada lags in market share for all Asian routes except Narita.

Black Box
Jul 19, 2014, 7:31 AM
No chance of the big ugly in Seattle as SEA isn't designed to land/facilitate A380 unlike YVR which is. Emirates is locked with 777 for the SEA route.

Regarding the potential conspiracy against YVR, how then can you explain the federal govt blocking Qatar from a YVR launch or the original Emirates application to YVR long before they settled with SEA. or the india requests that were shot down. You can't tell me there's not a preference for Ottawa to favour YYZ at the expense of YVR, even for Asia not to mention South America (which would have biz traffic out of YVR) in addition to the route being closer for China. ...

Purely YYZ protectionism by the AC monopoly facilitated by the Federal govt.


A bit ignorant to how things work in Canada. Has Christy Clark or Victoria conducted inquiries in the past or do they have plans in the future to do so in regards to Ottawa's presumed preference to connect the downtown of Canada with the rest of the world via air?

Is Toronto's gain Seattle's gain in some cases? Or is Seattle gaining because it's Seattle?

Do you have links for us to peer into?

It's a curious and interesting time for Sea-Tac. Delta is mounting an offense against Alaska, etc.

Cage
Jul 20, 2014, 4:09 PM
Regarding the potential conspiracy against YVR, how then can you explain the federal govt blocking Qatar from a YVR launch or the original Emirates application to YVR long before they settled with SEA. or the india requests that were shot down. You can't tell me there's not a preference for Ottawa to favour YYZ at the expense of YVR, even for Asia not to mention South America (which would have biz traffic out of YVR) in addition to the route being closer for China. ...

Purely YYZ protectionism by the AC monopoly facilitated by the Federal govt.

With regard to EK, the final proposal from the UAE govt was all or nothing. Canada would have to accept the following, no capacity restriction, ability for EK to fly from any canadian city, no frequency restriction, 6th freedom rights to USA. The reality was all that EK was interested in utilizing was daily 380 from YYZ. Their partners in crime, EY wanted the same. The remainder of the access rights demands were for future consideration in case EK or EY got into trouble with another country, eg USA or Mexico.

In QR instance, they wanted access rights package for number if cities, no frequency or seat restrictions, etc. QR was also deciding on whether to join star or oneworld. They over played their handh with the star application, as is common for QR and their chief executive. Current example if QR and AAB overplaying their hand, rejection of the A380 delivery. The reality is that QR does not need the A380, but they are committed to delivery.

cyeg66
Jul 20, 2014, 8:15 PM
Current example if QR and AAB overplaying their hand, rejection of the A380 delivery. The reality is that QR does not need the A380, but they are committed to delivery.

Well, some regions of the world are sometimes all about showiness and grandeur, keeping up with the Joneses', as it were. Dare I say, the ME is particularly susceptible to this.

trofirhen
Jul 20, 2014, 10:08 PM
Referring to what you seem to be stating, and how a lot of this is about "prestige," I've come to ralize this "prestige" thing applies to airports, too.
If your airport doesn't have one or more of the ME3, you don't rank up there withe the Big League.
Maybe some YVR followers, myself included, have insidiously fallen prey to this idea. Does YVR NEED the Gulf Destinations? Not if major connected markets, like India are served better. Even now, one can apparently go YVR to DEL with a chane of plane in Beijing, and this works out about 1000 miles shorter than by DBX, to boot. The Iranian market in Vancouver, and other middle east points might be doable out of Munich, (though never-to-happen IST would be all we'd ever need for that. Too bad YYZ has tht route locked down; Turkish is Star_Alliance, and everthing)
What IMO does define an airport as significant, is the number of key destinations it has, related to it's economy and needs.
Size, it appars, isn't everything.

Example cited: Phoenix is a booming sunbelt city we all know with a metro population of around 4m and
an impressive busy airport, Sky Harbour. It handles its % of passengers, has a fantastic US and Mexican network, yet only one route to Europe, LHR.

I think I read that on the YVR homepage, not sure (wish I'd bookmarked the page)... that 2 recommended YVR routes were Lima and São Paolo.
This relates more directly to mining business interest in the Andes, and more financial services in SP, which seems aspiring to be the combined London and New York Of South America.

On the opposite side of the world, in China, it s shorter from HK to SP via EK through DBX. But places in China (and East Asia of course) west of there, are closer to Lima, than by either DBX or YYZ, although sources say EK is planning Lma and Santiago Chile from Dubai, but I doubt it would go for anything north or west than Shanghai. Even HK to Lima it is shorter over the Pacific.

This would apprently warrant the Lima route (itself being a modern gateway airport to South America) and a route to important SP, only a couple of hundred miles longer than by YYZ. We're still in the runnin, is what I'm sayin'

All very much future dreamin' for sure.
Thank you for your time. :)

SpongeG
Jul 20, 2014, 10:56 PM
does malaysian airlines fly to vancouver? i am lazy and don't wanna look

Johnny Aussie
Jul 20, 2014, 11:13 PM
does malaysian airlines fly to vancouver? i am lazy and don't wanna look

Not since the 20th century.

Hourglass
Jul 21, 2014, 2:36 AM
Not since the 20th century.

Yup. Used to fly 2-3x per week via Taipei

SpongeG
Jul 21, 2014, 6:34 AM
ah just wondered cause it sounds like they may be over soon and I guess we would lose an airline at the airport but they are lost already

trofirhen
Jul 21, 2014, 4:01 PM
ah just wondered cause it sounds like they may be over soon and I guess we would lose an airline at the airport but they are lost already
We already lost Singapore Airlines, and before that, Qantas (which
briefly had a YVR-PPT (tahiti) nonstop on its way to Sydney, but was normally routed,
I believe through SFO and HNL.
Times change.

Cage
Jul 21, 2014, 8:40 PM
Heard that AC6 (HND-YYZ) had to make a tech stop in YVR for crew issues.

First time 788 arrived in YVR. Did anyone get pics. :cheers:

madog222
Jul 21, 2014, 9:34 PM
^
First Air Canada 788 to land at YVR.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3900/14703237075_5ba53d6a81_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/opgW8v)
AirCanada_801_C-GHPQ_a (https://flic.kr/p/opgW8v) by billlmf (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2895/14516596018_6c22c2d7fb_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/o7Mmff)
AirCanada_801_C-GHPQ_f (https://flic.kr/p/o7Mmff) by billlmf (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr


more here (http://www.yvr.ca/en/blog/posts/air_canada_dreamliner_lands_at_yvr.aspx)

Hot Rod
Jul 22, 2014, 10:06 AM
Don't JAL, China Southern, and ANA use 788 into YVR already?

Edit -op, reread and saw 'the first AIR CANADA 788 ....' -

:)

Johnny Aussie
Jul 22, 2014, 10:09 AM
Don't JAL, China Southern, and ANA use 788 into YVR already?

JAL and China Southern yes.
ANA no -763s

But yeah this tech stop seemed to get more coverage. Still happy to see YVR taking a better interest in events and news worthy items.

I suppose because we already know 2 daily AC 788s are confirmed already starting with the winter scheds and more to follow....

trofirhen
Jul 22, 2014, 11:21 PM
JAL and China Southern yes.
ANA no -763s

But yeah this tech stop seemed to get more coverage. Still happy to see YVR taking a better interest in events and news worthy items.

I suppose because we already know 2 daily AC 788s are confirmed already starting with the winter scheds and more to follow....
AC talked about starting 787 service to Brisbane. Fact, or just smoke and mirrors?

Johnny Aussie
Jul 23, 2014, 3:35 AM
Just had a brief look at the upcoming winter scheds for Westjet

Not really that much.... a bit of a yawner actually...

These changes are for the whole of the winter scheds from Nov - March.

YKA gone.... was one daily Encore - didn't last long
YLW goes to 4 daily up from 3 last winter - 2 Westjet, 2 Encore
YXS goes to 5 daily up from 4 last winter - all Encore except one Westjet flight on Saturdays
YXJ goes to 2 daily up from 1 last winter - all Encore

There are also additional frequencies on some of the sun routes and a couple to YYC.

Other than YKA being dropped, I could not see any other routes with frequency reductions.

So all up about 44-45 daily Westjet flights and about 14 daily Encore this winter. Getting close to the 60 daily mark for the whole winter operation. So about 3 daily more than last winter.

twoNeurons
Jul 23, 2014, 3:49 PM
JAL and China Southern yes.
ANA no -763s

But yeah this tech stop seemed to get more coverage. Still happy to see YVR taking a better interest in events and news worthy items.

I suppose because we already know 2 daily AC 788s are confirmed already starting with the winter scheds and more to follow....

I'd be surprised if ANA doesn't switch to 787s on this route. Air Canada and JAL BOTH are using 787s to Narita and ANA is flying into the premium destination of Haneda which is only 15 minutes from downtown Tokyo.

I'm guessing ANA has a limited number of 787s, but to be honest their international 787 configuration only has a handful of seats more than the 767 they're using. Then again, maybe they feel that having a flight to Haneda is enough of a competitive edge over JAL and AC that they can get away with getting more miles out of an older plane.

Cage
Jul 23, 2014, 3:58 PM
YKA gone.... was one daily Encore - didn't last long
YLW goes to 4 daily up from 3 last winter - 2 Westjet, 2 Encore

Supports my theory that Okanagan market is one with three airports (YKA, YLW, YYF). Any increase to one airport just steals same traffic from the others. This is especially true to YLW which is sandwiched in the middle. I am to the point where YYF and YKA should be bulldozed and YLW expanded into proper international airport with terminal facilities for up to 3 million pax per annum. One large airport would better serve the Okanagan region.

Cage
Jul 23, 2014, 4:03 PM
AC talked about starting 787 service to Brisbane. Fact, or just smoke and mirrors?

BNE daily is a 2 aircraft operation. With inly 7 aircraft by the end of the year, it is not probable that AC will launch service. Also AC is currently trying to build out HND-YYZ, then look for South America from YYZ on the 787. 2016 things start to open up from the scheduling perspective.

Daily inter service and 4-5x week summer service to BNE would be a good addition.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 23, 2014, 7:30 PM
As I had mentioned earlier in a previous post and now confirmed.

Thrice weekly rouge 319 flights will operate YVR-PSP from 18 December to 15 April. Flights will operate Thursdays, Saturdays and Sundays.

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=793

I wouldn't be surprised if we see SAN added within a year as well.

The amount of transborder capacity rouge is adding to the YVR market this winter is incredible.

Re-cap (capacity increase from last winter)

LAX 1 daily 763, 2 daily 319 (+45%)
SFO 3 daily 319 (+40%)
LAS 2 daily 319(+100%)
HNL daily 763 (+55%)
OGG daily 763 (+55%)

PHX new daily 319
PSP new 3 weekly 319

Along with DL's new 4 daily SEA service, AA's new twice daily LAX service, DL's temporary daily LAX flights around Xmas and WS's additional weekly PSP flight.... there don't appear to be any cuts on any route/airline yet....

..... looks like transborder stats will explode this winter.

Derek
Jul 23, 2014, 7:44 PM
Do you think Air Canada/Rouge (or Westjet) will ever start nonstop service to SAN again in the near future?

Johnny Aussie
Jul 23, 2014, 7:52 PM
Do you think Air Canada/Rouge (or Westjet) will ever start nonstop service to SAN again in the near future?

Funny... I had just edited my post above and had added that line when I read this.

Yes, I do.

Derek
Jul 23, 2014, 7:57 PM
Funny... I had just edited my post above and had added that line when I read this.

Yes, I do.

:haha:


Which airline do you think is more likely to start service? Or do you think both AC/Rouge and Westjet could both be serving it in the future? If I recall correctly, YVR is the top international O/D destination from SAN. I'm surprised AC pulled the plug a few years ago. I had flown that flight 5 times and it was packed every time.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 23, 2014, 8:09 PM
:haha:


Which airline do you think is more likely to start service? Or do you think both AC/Rouge and Westjet could both be serving it in the future? If I recall correctly, YVR is the top international O/D destination from SAN. I'm surprised AC pulled the plug a few years ago. I had flown that flight 5 times and it was packed every time.

Rouge most likely.

Full or not, the yields on the E90 on that route would have been poor.

Gordon
Jul 24, 2014, 7:58 PM
WS has discontinued their 3rd LaX flight from YVR

craneSpotter
Jul 24, 2014, 8:08 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if we see SAN added within a year as well.

The amount of transborder capacity rouge is adding to the YVR market this winter is incredible.

Re-cap (capacity increase from last winter)

LAX 1 daily 763, 2 daily 319 (+45%)
SFO 3 daily 319 (+40%)
LAS 2 daily 319(+100%)
HNL daily 763 (+55%)
OGG daily 763 (+55%)

PHX new daily 319
PSP new 3 weekly 319


..... looks like transborder stats will explode this winter.

Boy, looks like Rouge is really going after Westjet. Maybe Rouge will add SNA too (although I'd prefer LGB - but I think it's at capacity)

trofirhen
Jul 24, 2014, 8:23 PM
Boy, looks like Rouge is really going after Westjet. Maybe Rouge will add SNA too, although I'd prefer LGB.
This is all really keen news, but I'm hoping the day will come when Westjet really starts to hammer Air Canada,
maybe with (a few years along), widebodies, and overseas routes. (Be kinda nifty if they joined Skyteam or Oneworld as well, hehe).
Dunno if it's feasible, but one can hope and dream.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 24, 2014, 9:09 PM
WS has discontinued their 3rd LaX flight from YVR

The 3rd flight (5 weekly) is a summer seasonal service. It doesn't operate in the winter.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 25, 2014, 5:00 AM
Can anyone shed some light on this?

From YVR twitter today....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LPvUxhUtqcs&feature=youtu.be

madog222
Jul 25, 2014, 5:27 AM
New buggie fleet?

casper
Jul 25, 2014, 6:00 AM
New buggie fleet?

New buggies of epic proportion that will revolutionize the world or baggage. :D

In depths investigative journalism will be required to answer the fundamental question of all time: "Will they have cup holders?". It is strange all major airports in Canada appear to have Tim Horton's yet none of the airport have cup-holders on their buggies. Perhaps YVR will be the innovator with improved customs clearance and transfer procedures:
"Passport Control -> Tim Hortons -> Baggage Claim -> Customs -> Recycling Bin -> Skytrain"

Alternatively, I could be completely wrong it could have nothing to do with buggies. :???:

Johnny Aussie
Jul 25, 2014, 6:15 AM
New buggies of epic proportion that will revolutionize the world or baggage. :D

In depths investigative journalism will be required to answer the fundamental question of all time: "Will they have cup holders?". It is strange all major airports in Canada appear to have Tim Horton's yet none of the airport have cup-holders on their buggies. Perhaps YVR will be the innovator with improved customs clearance and transfer procedures:
"Passport Control -> Tim Hortons -> Baggage Claim -> Customs -> Recycling Bin -> Skytrain"

Alternatively, I could be completely wrong it could have nothing to do with buggies. :???:

Yeah some new fancy baggage carts were what came to mind... Just couldn't quite get the mystery... That innovative?

trofirhen
Jul 25, 2014, 4:18 PM
Can anyone shed some light on this?

From YVR twitter today....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LPvUxhUtqcs&feature=youtu.be


It might have something to do with improved security facilities for mobility-challenged people. I got a vague impression of a wheelchair being securely fastened ....
but it's still very cryptic, I must admit.

craneSpotter
Jul 26, 2014, 3:15 AM
This is all really keen news, but I'm hoping the day will come when Westjet really starts to hammer Air Canada,
maybe with (a few years along), widebodies, and overseas routes. (Be kinda nifty if they joined Skyteam or Oneworld as well, hehe).
Dunno if it's feasible, but one can hope and dream.

I would really like to see Rouge stick it to Westjet! haha Means lower prices...

and this...!!!

Southwest eyes northern push, threatening Air Canada, WestJet

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/us-business/southwest-eyes-northern-push-threatening-air-canada-westjet/article19783679/

Although I'd rather see JetBlue ;) Southwest would be great competition for the leisure/infrequent flyer market that Westjet and Rouge cater to.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 26, 2014, 3:54 AM
I would really like to see Rouge stick it to Westjet! haha Means lower prices...

and this...!!!

Southwest eyes northern push, threatening Air Canada, WestJet

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/us-business/southwest-eyes-northern-push-threatening-air-canada-westjet/article19783679/

Although I'd rather see JetBlue ;) Southwest would be great competition for the leisure/infrequent flyer market that Westjet and Rouge cater to.

Apparently looking at up to 50 destinations outside the continental US.

"The obvious destinations are New York-Toronto and other high traffic Canada-US routes" says one of the analysts.

So I would think they wouldn't be targeting smaller markets and thinner routes but going for the big ones... I would think mainly Eastern Canada routes with large O+D plus... perhaps YVR-LAX. But I wouldn't think very many other routes would fit into their model.

casper
Jul 26, 2014, 4:19 AM
Apparently looking at up to 50 destinations outside the continental US.

"The obvious destinations are New York-Toronto and other high traffic Canada-US routes" says one of the analysts.

So I would think they wouldn't be targeting smaller markets and thinner routes but going for the big ones... I would think mainly Eastern Canada routes with large O+D plus... perhaps YVR-LAX. But I wouldn't think very many other routes would fit into their model.

Given Southwest biggest hubs are places like Chicago and Las Vegas I would they would go there.

When AirTrans was competitor they did this cool video taking jabs at Southwest. Since they do not interline with any Canadian airline I have never ended up on a booking with them. So I don't know if it is as bad as it is made out to be. The lineup posts for zones due look weird.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6DdDlPT4Uc

stiffdeadman
Jul 26, 2014, 6:31 AM
the article fails to mention that alot of those 5 million people border hopping for flights do so because of exorbitant taxes and other fees that are leached from travellers in canada. southwest would have to deal with that. i don't think their model would be too successful here. point in case, southwest's main western hubs are las vegas, oakland and phoenix. both alaska and us airways had flights from yvr to las vegas. both airlines ditched those flights. alaska of course in favor of bli. another example is frontier which is a similar model to southwest. they tried running yvr-denver. didn't work. now they run bli-denver in the summer and it seems to be doing well as it's come back each summer for the last couple years.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 26, 2014, 6:49 AM
Given Southwest biggest hubs are places like Chicago and Las Vegas I would they would go there.

When AirTrans was competitor they did this cool video taking jabs at Southwest. Since they do not interline with any Canadian airline I have never ended up on a booking with them. So I don't know if it is as bad as it is made out to be. The lineup posts for zones due look weird.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6DdDlPT4Uc

I could see LAS maybe from YVR and YYC, but MDW (their Chicago hub) I don't think there is enough traffic. Southwest is moving more towards a hub system though.

I almost flew WN once from DAL-SAT but ended up out of DFW instead.

I fly UA all the time in the US. Even UA uses the zone "posts" now although you have assigned seating, of course, each gate has 5 zone lines. It always looks so cluttered.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 26, 2014, 6:54 AM
the article fails to mention that alot of those 5 million people border hopping for flights do so because of exorbitant taxes and other fees that are leached from travellers in canada. southwest would have to deal with that. i don't think their model would be too successful here. point in case, southwest's main western hubs are las vegas, oakland and phoenix. both alaska and us airways had flights from yvr to las vegas. both airlines ditched those flights. alaska of course in favor of bli. another example is frontier which is a similar model to southwest. they tried running yvr-denver. didn't work. now they run bli-denver in the summer and it seems to be doing well as it's come back each summer for the last couple years.

I agree with most of this. It's the additional taxes and fees put on transborder flights. So not much any airline can do about that. Hence why I think there would be very little opportunity in the west. Toronto more likely would work.
I think the BLI factor has reached its height of success as airlines are now starting to retreat on some routes there as well... mainly Hawaii for now.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 26, 2014, 12:29 PM
Looks like a couple of return rotations next weekend.

AC1137 inbound and AC162 outbound scheduled for 31 July and 1 August.

Will it still be light out at 9:38pm?

Cage
Jul 26, 2014, 6:26 PM
the article fails to mention that alot of those 5 million people border hopping for flights do so because of exorbitant taxes and other fees that are leached from travellers in canada. southwest would have to deal with that. i don't think their model would be too successful here. point in case, southwest's main western hubs are las vegas, oakland and phoenix. both alaska and us airways had flights from yvr to las vegas. both airlines ditched those flights. alaska of course in favor of bli. another example is frontier which is a similar model to southwest. they tried running yvr-denver. didn't work. now they run bli-denver in the summer and it seems to be doing well as it's come back each summer for the last couple years.

US dehubbed LAS and that caused them to exit YVR-LAS.

AS used to have over 40 flights per day out of YVR, this ended when WS started transborder scheduled flights as the traffic left AS for WS.

F9 was an airline with no passengers on DEN-YVR and DEN-YYC. On their misadventure in YYC, I would often see only 10 pax board their flights and then UA go out nearly full. ultimately F9 caused their own demise, they never advertised in the Canadian market and failed to realize the majority of pax were canadian origin.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 26, 2014, 11:31 PM
Runway 13/31

http://www.yvr.ca/en/blog/posts/The_Shifting_Magnetic_North_Pole_Runway_Renumbering_at_YVR.aspx

Is this runway ever used at all anymore?

casper
Jul 27, 2014, 4:03 PM
I could see LAS maybe from YVR and YYC, but MDW (their Chicago hub) I don't think there is enough traffic. Southwest is moving more towards a hub system though.

I almost flew WN once from DAL-SAT but ended up out of DFW instead.

I fly UA all the time in the US. Even UA uses the zone "posts" now although you have assigned seating, of course, each gate has 5 zone lines. It always looks so cluttered.

WestJet does a daily flight from Vancouver to Chicago during the summer. I have never been on it I would assume being a summer flight it has a fair number of cruise passengers and connecting traffic onto American. I could see Southwest doing the same.

I would view both LAS and MDW as connection points into SW hub. An local traffic is just accidental. Afer all how many people in Vancouver are actually going to Salt Lake City or MSP.

The zone post thing reminders me of grade school. Not certain what that says about how airlines view their passengers. United does have a half dozen different categories of Elite travelers that all need to be treated differently in the boarding order.

whatnext
Jul 27, 2014, 4:38 PM
Runway 13/31

http://www.yvr.ca/en/blog/posts/The_Shifting_Magnetic_North_Pole_Runway_Renumbering_at_YVR.aspx

Is this runway ever used at all anymore?

Dash-8's will sometimes use it. And on the rare occasions if the wind is blowing strongly and just right some large planes still do (at least as of last year).

excel
Jul 28, 2014, 6:27 PM
Dash-8's will sometimes use it. And on the rare occasions if the wind is blowing strongly and just right some large planes still do (at least as of last year).

YVR no longer does LAHSO (Land and Hold Short Operations) so no dash-8's nor any aircraft will land on 13-31 while the parallels are in use. I have taken off and landed on 13 many times all due to wind. I have however never used 31 as the wind rarely favours this runway. Being 7300ft long it is more than long enough to handle 747s/A340s especially when the winds are down the pipe and usually over 30 knots which warrants the use of the runway in the first place.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 28, 2014, 9:02 PM
In addition to the flights on 31 July and 1 Aug...

Tonight's AC 1137 from YYZ and AC 162 to YYZ are being operated by the newest arrival 788.

It is just completing its first revenue flights to YYC and back to YYZ.

It is delayed though so very doubtful for any twilight viewing at all.

excel
Jul 29, 2014, 11:08 PM
WestJet announced they have chosen 4 767-300ERW to add to their fleet next year. Posted on their Facebook today.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t31.0-8/s720x720/10531462_10152624649583552_1494732540087722015_o.png

connect2source
Jul 30, 2014, 3:06 AM
Does anyone know where WestJet is sourcing these 767-300ERs from? Are they relatively new ones with Boeings Signature Interiors or old ones with the horrible 80's interiors and tiny over-head bins. Are they ex-AC birds not going to Rouge?

Derek
Jul 30, 2014, 3:37 AM
Does anyone know where WestJet is sourcing these 767-300ERs from? Are they relatively new ones with Boeings Signature Interiors or old ones with the horrible 80's interiors and tiny over-head bins. Are they ex-AC birds not going to Rouge?

It is currently unknown where they are coming from, but they will be fully refurbished before entering service.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6140812/1/#1

(Post 13)

http://m.atwonline.com/finance-data/westjet-start-operating-boeing-767s-2015-2q-net-profit-159

teriyaki
Jul 30, 2014, 4:20 AM
The 767 with those massive 11foot winglets looks amazing. Can't wait to see these up in the sky. Another reason to make the move to YYC?:P

whatnext
Jul 30, 2014, 7:25 AM
The 767 with those massive 11foot winglets looks amazing. Can't wait to see these up in the sky. Another reason to make the move to YYC?:P

Rouge 767's have winglets, so you'll see them here for Hawai'i this Fall.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 30, 2014, 10:03 AM
Rouge 767's have winglets, so you'll see them here for Hawai'i this Fall.

Why wait until this Fall... You can see them now.... Condor flies them in 4 times a week! :boogy:

connect2source
Jul 30, 2014, 1:36 PM
Ghim-Lay Yeo 杨锦丽 Deputy Editor (Air Transport) at @Flightglobal Americas Bureau, states that the 767s for WestJet will be sourced from Boeing and will have 262 seats and include premium economy.

https://twitter.com/ghimlay

Johnny Aussie
Aug 2, 2014, 10:36 AM
I must be bored...but ... just looked at FR24....There must be some incredible tail winds tonight.

Just looked at the bank of late evening departures from YVR and CX to HKG, BR and CI to TPE and MU to PVG are just hurtling along.

For example, China Eastern, despite leaving about 10 mins late, is expected to arrive in PVG ~ 1 hour 40 minutes early. Makes the long westbound flights more bearable :-)

Haven't seen flight times like that in awhile.

PAL 119 and the CX 95 freighter were both delayed but about 90 minutes shorter flying time as well.

CZ freighter very late and still on the ground though.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 4, 2014, 10:59 PM
UK provisional stats have been released for June.

LHR grew by 6,079 passengers compared to June 2013. With AC's increase from the 77W to the HD 77W that would have added 6,540 seats. So an excellent absorption of 93% of the additional capacity. Not bad!

Source: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data_prov/201406/June_2014_Provisional_International_Routes.csv

VS didn't add their 5th weekly until July.

Genauso
Aug 5, 2014, 5:32 PM
BC Business Magazine
7 big ideas from B.C.'s business leaders: Craig Richmond. CEO, Vancouver Airport Authority (http://www.bcbusiness.ca/people/yvr-should-be-a-transit-hub-between-china-and-south-america)

Craig Richmond was taking flying lessons before he was old enough to drive and became an Air Force pilot by age 20. He spent 11 years in operations at YVR before taking over the running of airports in Liverpool, Cyprus and the Bahamas, returning to YVR last summer. Every airport is a gateway from here to there, and Richmond has been pushing the idea that YVR needs to capitalize on its geographic location in a different way. There’s money to be made in being a so-called “holding pen” for transit passengers. A Chinese airline has already committed to keeping two jumbo jets in Vancouver as a base—which means hundreds of jobs for maintenance, support and flight crew, if his idea comes to pass.

My Big Idea

"YVR should be a transit hub between China and South America."

Sao Paulo to Vancouver to Shanghai—it’s almost a perfectly straight line. We are in a very fortunate geographic place. There’s mining in Santiago. Who needs to get there? Everyone, especially the Chinese. Break it down this way: 200 people arrive from China, 75 get off here, 125 continue down to Chile and 40 people from Vancouver get on board. Transit without visas has been around for a long time but it used to be a horrible experience. Also, there were concerns that people would claim refugee status when they landed—but do you know how many we’ve had? Zero. They’re not here to jump ship; they’re here to get to a place where it’s convenient to have a stop in Canada. Middle Eastern hubs have taken 15 per cent of the traffic, and you learn that the transportation business is like water: people go wherever it’s easy to go, and we’ve been losing out.

madog222
Aug 5, 2014, 9:47 PM
This idea pops up here often enough. What would it take for it to actually happen?
Has either airline that flies to Shanghai expressed interest?

Johnny Aussie
Aug 6, 2014, 9:31 AM
Philippine Airlines has flip flopped again.

Winter scheds to YVR and YYZ were to revert back to the 343 end of August.

Now it appears the 77W will continue indefinitely after 1 September again.

Daily YVR with 3 weekly continuing on to YYZ and return.

http://airlineroute.net/2014/08/06/pr-yvryyz-sep14update2/

Johnny Aussie
Aug 6, 2014, 12:39 PM
Just looked at the UK stats for June again.

Despite YVR-LHR just motoring ahead with over 6,000 additional passengers compared to June 2013, all three of the Air Transat YVR-UK routes showed declines of about 100 pax to GLA, about 650 to MAN and about 700 to LGW. Overall YVR-UK is up substantially compared to 2013, but is Icelandair the reason for the Air Transat declines as it would appear those are the passengers they would be "stealing." For comparative purposes YYC-LHR was up about 3,350, LGW down about 1,200, GLA flat and MAN up about 750.

What is really noticeable though is the almost collapse of YEG-LGW down almost 50% from June 2013 and a load factor of around only 23% on the two round trip flights. YEG-LHR was down as well but only by a couple hundred. Air Transat has loaded their 2015 schedules and there is no change to the YVR or YYC frequencies at this stage but the weekly YEG-LGW appears to be gone. Not really surprising given that horrific LF. So is Icelandair pushing Air Transat out of YEG?

craneSpotter
Aug 6, 2014, 8:47 PM
ANA Expands Americas Codeshare Network from July/August 2014

Update at 0700GMT 05AUG14

Star Alliance member ANA in July and August 2014 continues to expand codeshare network in the Americas, which sees “NH” code appear on all UNITED routes to Brazil and additional domestic points operated by Air Canada via Vancouver.

New Codeshare routes as follow.

ANA operated by Air Canada effective 21AUG14

Vancouver – Calgary
Vancouver – Montreal
Vancouver – Ottawa
Vancouver – Prince Rupert

Note: Prince Rupert

Source: http://airlineroute.net/2014/08/05/nh-codeshare-jul14/

craneSpotter
Aug 6, 2014, 8:51 PM
Philippine Airlines to Continue Boeing 777 Service to Canada from Sep 2014


Update at 0840GMT 06AUG14

Philippine Airlines once again has revised planned operational aircraft for service to Canada, which sees Boeing 777-300ER aircraft continues to serve Vancouver and Toronto, on/after 01SEP14. Previously the 4 weekly Manila – Vancouver and 3 weekly Manila – Vancouver – Toronto route was to be operated by A340-300.

Manila – Vancouver
PR116 MNL1900 – 1615YVR 77W x357
PR117 YVR2345 – 0435+2MNL 77W x357

Manila – Vancouver – Toronto
PR118 MNL1500 – 1215YVR1345 – 2105YYZ 77W 357
PR119 YYZ2235 – 0035+1YVR0150+1 – 0640+2MNL 77W 357

source - http://airlineroute.net/2014/08/06/pr-yvryyz-sep14update2/

usog
Aug 7, 2014, 8:03 AM
Random question but this came up today. Does YVR not do gate passes anymore or was the old lady at Air Canada customer service feeding me BS?

twoNeurons
Aug 7, 2014, 2:24 PM
ANA Expands Americas Codeshare Network from July/August 2014

Update at 0700GMT 05AUG14

Star Alliance member ANA in July and August 2014 continues to expand codeshare network in the Americas, which sees “NH” code appear on all UNITED routes to Brazil and additional domestic points operated by Air Canada via Vancouver.

New Codeshare routes as follow.

ANA operated by Air Canada effective 21AUG14

Vancouver – Calgary
Vancouver – Montreal
Vancouver – Ottawa
Vancouver – Prince Rupert

Note: Prince Rupert

Source: http://airlineroute.net/2014/08/05/nh-codeshare-jul14/

Calgary is easy. Banf is a big draw for Japanese tourists.
Prince Rupert COULD be for Aurora Borealis tourism.

twoNeurons
Aug 7, 2014, 2:26 PM
Random question but this came up today. Does YVR not do gate passes anymore or was the old lady at Air Canada customer service feeding me BS?

The last time I got a gate pass was in 1995. Didn't they stop after 2001-09-11?

craneSpotter
Aug 7, 2014, 5:36 PM
prince rupert could be for aurora borealis tourism.

LNG, sportfishing & bear watching (@ the nearby Khutzeymateen Grizzly Bear Sanctuary).

craneSpotter
Aug 7, 2014, 5:39 PM
:tup:

http://i60.tinypic.com/2jaj0xs.jpg

Gordon
Aug 7, 2014, 6:25 PM
Great stats for YVR With an 8.7% increase in Transborder Traffic I wonder if BLI is down noticeably this year?

West Jet Encore seems to have a 4th Gate Gate A12. Has B12 been converted to an Encore gate or is B12 just being used as an overflow graound load slot?

trofirhen
Aug 7, 2014, 9:51 PM
BC Business Magazine
7 big ideas from B.C.'s business leaders: Craig Richmond. CEO, Vancouver Airport Authority (http://www.bcbusiness.ca/people/yvr-should-be-a-transit-hub-between-china-and-south-america)


Quote:
Craig Richmond was taking flying lessons before he was old enough to drive and became an Air Force pilot by age 20. He spent 11 years in operations at YVR before taking over the running of airports in Liverpool, Cyprus and the Bahamas, returning to YVR last summer. Every airport is a gateway from here to there, and Richmond has been pushing the idea that YVR needs to capitalize on its geographic location in a different way. There’s money to be made in being a so-called “holding pen” for transit passengers. A Chinese airline has already committed to keeping two jumbo jets in Vancouver as a base—which means hundreds of jobs for maintenance, support and flight crew, if his idea comes to pass.

My Big Idea

"YVR should be a transit hub between China and South America."

Sao Paulo to Vancouver to Shanghai—it’s almost a perfectly straight line. We are in a very fortunate geographic place. There’s mining in Santiago. Who needs to get there? Everyone, especially the Chinese. Break it down this way: 200 people arrive from China, 75 get off here, 125 continue down to Chile and 40 people from Vancouver get on board. Transit without visas has been around for a long time but it used to be a horrible experience. Also, there were concerns that people would claim refugee status when they landed—but do you know how many we’ve had? Zero. They’re not here to jump ship; they’re here to get to a place where it’s convenient to have a stop in Canada. Middle Eastern hubs have taken 15 per cent of the traffic, and you learn that the transportation business is like water: people go wherever it’s easy to go, and we’ve been losing out. [QUOTE/]........................................
* * * * * * * * * * * *
**********************************************************************************************************************
Lima and Santiago are are closer to China by YVR than by YYZ, about the only two cities that are. São Paolo is about 200 miles longer via YVR than YYZ,
and whether the fuel costs would rule out a Vancouver run or not is anyone's guess.

Neverthess, if nothing else, a route into Lima is something to be sought after,
as that city, and its new, modern airport, is apparently the "N.W. Gateway" into South America.

Interestingly São Paolo is closer to HK via DBX than over the Pacific. Most other Chinese cites, east of the critical line of longitude, have a
shorter haul over the Pacific, and if YVR continues to atttract flights from second-tier (still huge) cities in China, the the yields for airlinks Craig Richmond talks of just might be there.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 7, 2014, 11:00 PM
Great stats for YVR With an 8.7% increase in Transborder Traffic I wonder if BLI is down noticeably this year?

West Jet Encore seems to have a 4th Gate Gate A12. Has B12 been converted to an Encore gate or is B12 just being used as an overflow graound load slot?

Not only decent % increases but look at the passenger volume increases... that really tells the story of what's going on at YVR. Fastest growing major airport in Western Canada in both % and pax volume YTD 2014.

In thousands

JUNE // YTD
DOMESTIC UP 55.0 // UP 303.2
TRANSBORDER UP 34.5 // UP 186.3
ASIA PACIFIC UP 34.6 // UP 167.1
EUROPE UP 4.0 // UP 41.5
MISC INT DOWN 2.1 // UP 6.3
TTL INT UP 71.1 // UP 401.2
TTL UP 126.0 // UP 704.4

That's over 700,000 more passengers going through YVR in the first 6 months of the year compared to 2013.

Interesting Europe figures - scheduled traffic up a decent 6.3% or 6,700 (Icelandair and AC LHR) but charter down 6.4% or ~ 2,700.

Also, looking at YUL, YVR has virtually caught up to total international for the first 6 months. YUL about 4.5M total international almost the same as YVR. Yes, this includes transborder but that is still international. If the trend continues, YVR may exceed YUL for total international this year. Will be close! Obviously taking out transborder YUL is still the larger for remaining international and with their tremendous number of sun flights, it is no wonder!

Also, forget about BLI... look at SEA stats for June 2014 and YTD 2014. In June international was up only 2.7% and YTD up 6.1%. Taking out transborder, YVR international is up 9.5% in June and 10.8% YTD. I think there were a few people who were dooming and glooming on SEA's DL build up... These figures certainly paint a different picture.

And check out those cargo figures... must be all those additional freighters.... cargo up 21.6% in June.

Hourglass
Aug 8, 2014, 12:43 AM
I think there were a few people who were dooming and glooming on SEA's DL build up... These figures certainly paint a different picture.

Johnny, this is a case where I'd love to be proven wrong... ;)

The ytd numbers are looking good, but a 12-month period is hardly an accurate indicator of how the build-up of DL's SEA hub will impact YVR. Anecdotally, i know several friends flying to YVR from Hong Kong this summer who opted for DL via SEA rather than fly CX or AC non-stop because of cheaper fares. More choice is almost always good for the consumer, but who knows how possible erosion in fares or passengers will impact longer-term growth at YVR...

Johnny Aussie
Aug 8, 2014, 12:57 AM
Johnny, a 12-month period of time is hardly an accurate indicator of how the build-up of DL's SEA hub will impact YVR. Anecdotally, i know several friends flying to YVR from Hong Kong this summer who opted for DL via SEA rather than fly CX or AC non-stop because of cheaper fares. More choice is almost always good for the consumer, but who knows how this will impact longer-term growth at YVR...

But yes, the numbers ytd are encouraging.

I hear you...however... SEA only increased 2.7% despite all of their new international Asia (and Europe) flights either commencing in June or prior. Given SEA's huge increase in capacity in June, I am very surprised at such low growth. Of course SEA will have an impact. I am sure you know people who have travelled to SEA to fly to Asia or vice versa. This is nothing new and has been happening since the 1980s. It still amazes people keep saying things like this as if it is some sort of a new "threat." YVR has had to deal with this competition for over 30 years and seems to be doing fine. However, like I said the stats/facts do not indicate the doom and gloom as I would not have expected them to. Regardless of time frame and regardless of opinion, YVR's Asia Pacific passenger volume in June actually increased more than the capacity added in June. That should bode well for increased load factors... yes yields are another beast, but a very good sign that the market grew stronger than capacity added. Plus AC's July stats are certainly showing this momentum is just getting stronger. Clearly an additional 34,600 passengers travelling Asia Pacific routes to/from YVR in just one month is phenomenal. The Asia Pacific pie is a huge one and getting bigger each day....I could go on... but I tend to take the glass half full approach anyway.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 8, 2014, 12:59 AM
http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=795

"I am pleased to report that Air Canada delivered its best second quarter financial performance in the Corporation's history, surpassing last year's records in all three measures of operating income, adjusted net income and EBITDAR"

Without looking into the complete results in much detail.....Air Canada seems to be doing ok.

Looked again... challenges ahead.... But who doesn't.

moosejaw
Aug 8, 2014, 12:48 PM
My Big Idea

"YVR should be a transit hub between China and South America."

Sao Paulo to Vancouver to Shanghai—it’s almost a perfectly straight line. We are in a very fortunate geographic place. There’s mining in Santiago. Who needs to get there? Everyone, especially the Chinese. Break it down this way: 200 people arrive from China, 75 get off here, 125 continue down to Chile and 40 people from Vancouver get on board. Transit without visas has been around for a long time but it used to be a horrible experience. [QUOTE/]........................................
* * * * * * * * * * * *
**********************************************************************************************************************
Lima and Santiago are are closer to China by YVR than by YYZ, about the only two cities that are. São Paolo is about 200 miles longer via YVR than YYZ,
and whether the fuel costs would rule out a Vancouver run or not is anyone's guess.

Neverthess, if nothing else, a route into Lima is something to be sought after,
as that city, and its new, modern airport, is apparently the "N.W. Gateway" into South America.

Interestingly São Paolo is closer to HK via DBX than over the Pacific. Most other Chinese cites, east of the critical line of longitude, have a
shorter haul over the Pacific, and if YVR continues to atttract flights from second-tier (still huge) cities in China, the the yields for airlinks Craig Richmond talks of just might be there.

Wherever this stands the folks at YVR better hop on it soon bc Miami International is poised to be be the #1 spot for international destinations soon overtaking JFK. The first place MIA is trying to woo is Asian destinations and with the long range 787, the trips can be made. Miami's advantage is warm tropical weather, gambling and pretty much any destination in South America. Heck even American Airlines offers direct flights to seven cities in Brazil. ANA, JAL and Cathay Pacific have all expressed interest in coming to Miami. I would personally like to see YVR get over any political hurdles and establish service to south america. Vancouver already has a sizeable Brazilian student population. Be interesting to see which city gets there first.

trofirhen
Aug 8, 2014, 1:02 PM
Wherever this stands the folks at YVR better hop on it soon bc Miami International is poised to be be the #1 spot for international destinations soon overtaking JFK. The first place MIA is trying to woo is Asian destinations and with the long range 787, the trips can be made. Miami's advantage is warm tropical weather, gambling and pretty much any destination in South America. Heck even American Airlines offers direct flights to seven cities in Brazil. ANA, JAL and Cathay Pacific have all expressed interest in coming to Miami. I would personally like to see YVR get over any political hurdles and establish service to south america. Vancouver already has a sizeable Brazilian student population. Be interesting to see which city gets there first.

With the Canadians in charge? Ha! Three guesses. Viva MIA (to the expense of Vancouver's struggling, Ottawa's ass-dragging, and often-restrictive bilaterals)......
though I think Lima and maybe Santiago would be quicker served from YVR.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 9, 2014, 1:51 AM
As reported earlier, AC, AA and DL are adding seats to the YVR-LAX market this winter... and now Alaska adding to the flood.

Winter scheds showing almost all 739s (17/21 weekly flights).

This latest addition tips YVR-LAX into the 1,000,000 annual seats category.

Hey UA, wanna get in on it?

Johnny Aussie
Aug 9, 2014, 7:14 AM
Could be just threatening talk but clearly AC (and WS too) will be preparing for the possible launch of 2 LCCs next year. This may include rougeing some domestic flying.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/air-canada-swings-to-profit-on-tax-gain-low-cost-carrier-rouge/article19946386/

Meanwhile.... Canada Jetlines seems to just keep moving along and has come up with a short list of potential new routes launching from YVR. Even summer seasonal routes to Red Deer, Lethbridge and Grande Prairie are being considered among the usual suspects of course. I have often thought as those secondary cities continue to grow quite quickly, just a matter of time before YVR would be connected to them... Although I think an A319 is just a tad large... There seems to be some pretty pie in the sky routes mentioned. Also talking seven 144-seat A319s and nine 178-seat A320s "in its first phase of development." Ok.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/jetlines-eyes-underserved-western-canada-flight-routes/article19901459/

Both of these LCCs/ULCCs are chasing start-up capital in the same pool at the same time. That can't be easy.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 10, 2014, 5:19 AM
An early update for next summer already.

YVR will be gaining 2 additional flights per week for a total of 18 weekly flights (not including the Enerjet charters flown on their behalf).

AMS goes from 2 to 3 and FRA goes from 3 to 4. The additional flights will be via YYC.

For the last couple of years the weekly YYC-AMS and YYC-FRA were standalone. However, next summer these will now originate and terminate in YVR again. This could suggest they are having trouble filling these out of YYC or it is just to do with the cycling of the aircraft.

Breakdown of the 18 weekly: LGW 5, FRA 4 (1 via YYC), AMS 3 (1 via YYC), CDG 3 (1 via YYC), MAN 2 and GLA 1.

Confirmed TS is dropping both YEG-LGW and YOW-LGW.

Also: Virgin Atlantic maintaining 5 weekly but with A330-300s next year replacing the A340s. 26 additional seats per flight.

jlousa
Aug 10, 2014, 6:16 AM
Any word if we'll see Transat bring back YVR to Madrid next year? As far as I know they only had it the one year but the numbers appeared like they had very high loads. :shrug:

Johnny Aussie
Aug 10, 2014, 6:28 AM
Any word if we'll see Transat bring back YVR to Madrid next year? As far as I know they only had it the one year but the numbers appeared like they had very high loads. :shrug:

Nada. MAD, BCN and FCO didn't last long. And I think ATH was scrapped before it even started. Ah well! Can't win them all.

Not sure about loads but doesn't seem to matter with Air Transat anyway!

casper
Aug 10, 2014, 3:44 PM
Nada. MAD, BCN and FCO didn't last long. And I think ATH was scrapped before it even started. Ah well! Can't win them all.

Not sure about loads but doesn't seem to matter with Air Transat anyway!

What would be interesting is to see if AT will try the Japan market at some point. Maybe in a few years, if thy are still around.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 10, 2014, 9:36 PM
What would be interesting is to see if AT will try the Japan market at some point. Maybe in a few years, if thy are still around.

In 2011 a group called Maple Fun Tours were looking at leasing suitable equipment to charter their own tours from Japan to YVR. KIX and NGO among others were on the agenda. This hit a snag and I'm really not sure what their current plans are but it has been very quiet lately.

Air Transat, to my knowledge, was one of the potential contenders.

Here's a small news article about this....

http://www.globeadvisor.com/servlet/ArticleNews/story/gam/20110129/RBTICKERAATL_1

Skymark has also tipped YVR as a potential new destination, but that was before they scrapped their plans for the A380. Not that they were planning any A380 flights to YVR... Obviously their A330 program would be much better suited to YVR.

http://zipanguflyer.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/skymarks-first-airbus-a380-completes.html

Johnny Aussie
Aug 11, 2014, 11:54 AM
Article in today's Australia Business Traveller.

Suggests YVR being seriously considered for the next Air NZ 787-900 destination after PER, PVG and NRT. Daily flights in the works.

Currently NZ flies 5 weekly 777-200. This will increase to 6 weekly in the winter scheds.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/air-new-zealand-maps-out-boeing-787-dreamliner-plans

Johnny Aussie
Aug 11, 2014, 11:57 AM
Air Canada rouge adding the second daily YVR-LAS one month earlier than planned.

The second daily A319 will now commence on 23 Sept instead of 26 Oct.

http://airlineroute.net/2014/08/11/zx-yvrlas-sep14/

craneSpotter
Aug 11, 2014, 7:15 PM
Air Canada rouge adding the second daily YVR-LAS one month earlier than planned.

The second daily A319 will now commence on 23 Sept instead of 26 Oct.

http://airlineroute.net/2014/08/11/zx-yvrlas-sep14/

Would this be due to stronger than expected bookings or aircraft availability?

Johnny Aussie
Aug 11, 2014, 10:15 PM
Would this be due to stronger than expected bookings or aircraft availability?

I would guess bookings were looking good and since there is an a/c available... why not start earlier. Good plan as October is a great month to visit LAS.

This added daily flight pretty much replaces the lost capacity when Philippine Airlines dropped the YVR-LAS tag a couple of years ago. So it should push YVR-LAS numbers back up again.
Compared to last winter... this is a decent 28% increase in the YVR-LAS market compared to last winter.

Denscity
Aug 11, 2014, 10:55 PM
Article in today's Australia Business Traveller.

Suggests YVR being seriously considered for the next Air NZ 787-900 destination after PER, PVG and NRT. Daily flights in the works.

Currently NZ flies 5 weekly 777-200. This will increase to 6 weekly in the winter scheds.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/air-new-zealand-maps-out-boeing-787-dreamliner-plans

More international awesomeness for YVR. :tup::tup:

Johnny Aussie
Aug 11, 2014, 11:45 PM
More international awesomeness for YVR. :tup::tup:

Yup. Maybe when Craig Richmond referred to the "Year of the Dreamliner" he wasn't kidding... although NZ wouldn't start until at least 2015 anyway.

I reckon YVR will get All Nippon 787s as their 763s get replaced.
Also, Air Canada to ICN in addition to NRT and PVG for sure next year.
And.... Xiamen.... ??? I think that is maybe a bit less likely now. But who knows!

twoNeurons
Aug 12, 2014, 4:36 PM
In 2011 a group called Maple Fun Tours were looking at leasing suitable equipment to charter their own tours from Japan to YVR. KIX and NGO among others were on the agenda. This hit a snag and I'm really not sure what their current plans are but it has been very quiet lately.

Air Transat, to my knowledge, was one of the potential contenders.

Here's a small news article about this....

http://www.globeadvisor.com/servlet/ArticleNews/story/gam/20110129/RBTICKERAATL_1

Skymark has also tipped YVR as a potential new destination, but that was before they scrapped their plans for the A380. Not that they were planning any A380 flights to YVR... Obviously their A330 program would be much better suited to YVR.

http://zipanguflyer.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/skymarks-first-airbus-a380-completes.html

I could perhaps see a charter or a LCC operate a direct flight out of Kansai Int'l in Osaka. However, any Canadian-based charter would get killed on flights to Narita or Haneda.

Peach (ANA's LCC) has a strong base out of KIX.
SkyMark is unaffiliated and is the main tenant in Kobe (a domestic airport)
Jetstar (JAL) is mostly Tokyo but again, primarily domestic.

twoNeurons
Aug 12, 2014, 4:37 PM
Yup. Maybe when Craig Richmond referred to the "Year of the Dreamliner" he wasn't kidding... although NZ wouldn't start until at least 2015 anyway.

I reckon YVR will get All Nippon 787s as their 763s get replaced.
Also, Air Canada to ICN in addition to NRT and PVG for sure next year.
And.... Xiamen.... ??? I think that is maybe a bit less likely now. But who knows!

I'm a little surprised that they started with a 763, given AC and JAL have started using 787s on the route. ANA has the favorable airport (Haneda) in Tokyo for most business travellers, so perhaps they feel HND is enough of a carrot to woo business traffic their way already so the route can wait for the 787.

Cage
Aug 12, 2014, 5:36 PM
I'm a little surprised that they started with a 763, given AC and JAL have started using 787s on the route. ANA has the favorable airport (Haneda) in Tokyo for most business travellers, so perhaps they feel HND is enough of a carrot to woo business traffic their way already so the route can wait for the 787.

ANA YVR-HND ops are breakeven at best. The primary reason ANA is running the route is to keep JAL out of the HND slot allocation. ANA won the slot allocation by almost 2:1 margin, now they have to use the rights or lose them to JAL.

JAL has been so beat down on YVR ops they could leave in the next 18 months. This is the ultimate goal of ANA, to replace JAL as the primary international airline for Japan.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 12, 2014, 6:12 PM
I'm a little surprised that they started with a 763, given AC and JAL have started using 787s on the route. ANA has the favorable airport (Haneda) in Tokyo for most business travellers, so perhaps they feel HND is enough of a carrot to woo business traffic their way already so the route can wait for the 787.

It made sense they used the 763 for startup as they also have to test and prove the market. Don't forget YVR is still a relatively small market in the scheme of things. The natural progression will be for their 763s to get replaced by 788s as they are phased out.
Like a lot of new routes an airline's expectation isn't necessarily to be profitable for even a couple of years. You will notice ANA is really starting to ramp up codeshares with Air Canada for domestic routes out of YVR. These types of changes will help develop the route and make it a profitable venture eventually. Also, Air Canada "right-sized" the YVR-NRT route to a 763 due to NH's entry. But not surprising YVR-NRT will be one of the first routes to see the 788. We think there is competition here? The ANA / JAL bloodbath is notorious. JAL really protested ANA's slot allotments awarded out of HND to the point of legal threats. But that's that.

As for JAL when they almost collapsed a few years ago I was pleasantly surprised that they even held on to YVR when I looked at all the other bases they closed. It is certainly common knowledge that Japan has really struggled with recovery but there is hope on their horizon. And the 788 is just the perfect fit for this route right now. I think YVR will continue to see JAL tails for years to come.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 12, 2014, 6:18 PM
I could perhaps see a charter or a LCC operate a direct flight out of Kansai Int'l in Osaka. However, any Canadian-based charter would get killed on flights to Narita or Haneda.

Peach (ANA's LCC) has a strong base out of KIX.
SkyMark is unaffiliated and is the main tenant in Kobe (a domestic airport)
Jetstar (JAL) is mostly Tokyo but again, primarily domestic.

Yup, hence why a venture like Maple Fun weren't even thinking of touching Tokyo. As the Japan market hopefully continues to recover there may be some bright spots on the horizon. There will be a secondary market from Japan... just needs to be approached and marketed properly.

Even MEL just recommenced direct services to NRT, albeit on Jetstar, after years of absence.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 13, 2014, 6:21 AM
Effective 26 October, Air China is putting the 77W on PEK-YVR-PEK.

This will also introduce first class on this route..... Confidence in getting premium traffic and/or perhaps a response to China Southern?

Configuration of their 777-300ERs is F8 C42 Y261 TTL311

At the same time frequency will reduce from 11 weekly 332s to daily only.

Overall capacity reduces by 430 seats per week.

http://airlineroute.net/2014/08/13/ca-yvr-w14/

Be curious to know what they do next summer :-)

Eventually I see AC going daily 788 in the winter and daily 77W in the summer along with the daily 77W Air China plus most likely a few additional weekly frequencies to supplement.

Johnny Aussie
Aug 14, 2014, 12:44 AM
Latest change has CI to TPE doing its usual seasonal frequency reductions over the winter scheds.

Daily through 26 Oct
6 weekly from 26 Oct - 26 Jan
5 weekly from 26 Jan - 27 Mar

Also, no 744s in the cards this winter. However, frequencies last winter dropped to 5 for the whole winter period from late October.

This route will most likely become a 359 route once CI takes delivery of them starting in 2016... I would expect YVR to come online in 2017.

http://airlineroute.net/2014/08/13/ci-w14update2/

Overall capacity to TPE for the winter will still be about the same as Eva Air has added an additional weekly 744 year-round to 4 from 3 in previous years. When CI reduces to 5 weekly over the Feb/Mar period, BR will have more capacity than CI for the first time.

officedweller
Aug 14, 2014, 1:13 AM
Pic by me today:

http://i.imgur.com/bEqMzOO.jpg?1 (http://imgur.com/bEqMzOO)