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teriyaki
Oct 24, 2014, 5:26 PM
DELTA Seattle hub routes to Asia. How much of a challenge does this pose to YVR? (DL once had a PDX - Asia hub that included Fukuoka and Bangkok. As you all know that hub was disbanded)
Nevertheless, as an aside, is YVR to BKK a feasability? Would it be a good one to have?

http://upgrd.com/images/upload/image/aerospace/sea-asia.gif
http://upgrd.com/images/upload/image/aerospace/sea-asia.gif

Wow I don't know who and when that picture was created but it's got all sorts of wrong in it.

trofirhen
Oct 24, 2014, 5:37 PM
Wow I don't know who and when that picture was created but it's got all sorts of wrong in it.
It's what I found on google for Seattle's DELTA hub for Asia. I guess it's out-dated.
Anyway, a good thing it seems YVR is getting that visa-free zone after all. Hope it makes a difference !!

craneSpotter
Oct 24, 2014, 10:45 PM
Mais oui!

My other theory is no matter from where you get off a plane... be that Minneapolis, Manchester or Manila... You gotta go through the same customs and immigration :-)

Agreed! Any passenger that passes through C&I is International. This would include passengers that TWOV.

Thank's for the YVR update - I read the BIV article ---- interesting. YVR is really pushing the TWOV hard and expecting the feds to announce it within a month or two! Was it the airlines (Asian) pushing officials at YVR to lobby the Feds hard for a TWOV zone? If this is true, does this mean that the Chinese/Asian airlines intend to use YVR as a global hub/link to South America??...hmmmm. Would AC be for or against the TWOV? It will be interested to watch unfold.

And hey, if YVR gets a few more non-stop international (Bogota, Sao Paulo, Santiago or.... DXB :runaway:) links out of the deal - good!

trofirhen
Oct 24, 2014, 11:34 PM
Agreed! Any passenger that passes through C&I is International. This would include passengers that TWOV.

Thank's for the YVR update - I read the BIV article ---- interesting. YVR is really pushing the TWOV hard and expecting the feds to announce it within a month or two! Was it the airlines (Asian) pushing officials at YVR to lobby the Feds hard for a TWOV zone? If this is true, does this mean that the Chinese/Asian airlines intend to use YVR as a global hub/link to South America??...hmmmm. Would AC be for or against the TWOV? It will be interested to watch unfold.

And hey, if YVR gets a few more non-stop international (Bogota, Sao Paulo, Santiago or.... DXB :runaway:) links out of the deal - good!
I thought DXB was a non_starter, given that Emirates spat with Ottawa, and the fact that they now fly out of Seattle.
Qatar Airways, I understand, applied for YVR landing rights a while back, but have so far been refused.
The South American connection, if it unfolds, will be something to behold!

casper
Oct 25, 2014, 5:48 AM
I thought DXB was a non_starter, given that Emirates spat with Ottawa, and the fact that they now fly out of Seattle.
Qatar Airways, I understand, applied for YVR landing rights a while back, but have so far been refused.
The South American connection, if it unfolds, will be something to behold!

I think DXB would have a very negative impact on YVR. If any of the current routes to Asia, China or to Europe are marginal it will undermine those flights.

trofirhen
Oct 25, 2014, 12:08 PM
I think DXB would have a very negative impact on YVR. If any of the current routes to Asia, China or to Europe are marginal it will undermine those flights.
Yes, I think that is the rationale of the Federal Transport Department, too.
Anyway, India is much closer to YVR going via Beijing than Dubai, and I could not see how DBX would affect routes to Europe
(unless you're going three quarters of the way around the world to get there, or zig-zagging back and forth.....)
but I agree that DBX isn't really necessary for YVR as things are, anyway.
Much of having EMIRATES flying into a city is a "prestige" thing, it often seems.
IST would be a much more practical destination for YVR for destinations to Africa and the Middle East, though I doubt that will ever come about.

thegx
Oct 26, 2014, 8:45 PM
Someone on airliners.net is saying Air France will launch YVR-CDG next year (obviously should be taken with a grain of salt).

YXS_YVR
Oct 26, 2014, 9:10 PM
It's really unfortunate Emirates can't fly to YVR. In late September, I flew YVR-SEA-DXB-PER, returning this past Thursday, same routing. The trip via Seattle on Horizon adds another 4 hours each way including stopover.

Many Canadians uses the flight out of SEA. My family of 5 had the exact same flights to Perth as another family of 3. The Seattle to Dubai leg was 95% full and majority of the guests were continuing to India.

During baggage pickup in SEA, I noticed the return DXB to SEA flight had 4 families flying to YVR, one to YYJ, and one to YEG.

Emirates was an amazing carrier and I'd fly them out of Seattle again.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 26, 2014, 10:10 PM
Someone on airliners.net is saying Air France will launch YVR-CDG next year (obviously should be taken with a grain of salt).

Salt shaker firmly in place!

trofirhen
Oct 26, 2014, 10:20 PM
Someone on airliners.net is saying Air France will launch YVR-CDG next year (obviously should be taken with a grain of salt).

Salt shaker firmly in place!
deleted

Johnny Aussie
Oct 26, 2014, 10:30 PM
Ze table, she is already starteeng to shake, just a leetel !!!!
(what a mean practical joke! Paris is a bitch to get into and out of (to YVR) in the off-season, trust me!!:yuck:

It's not completely out of the realm of possibility obviously as there have been rumblings about more CDG on the horizon. I still would take a wait and see approach. I don't doubt the guy's sources but yeah this is how rumours get started.

Meanwhile back to Asia (LOL):

1) first AC Dreamliner has departed to PVG
2) CA has upgauged the daily PEK flight to the 77W with F class.
3) Eva is replacing one of its weekly TPE-YVR flights with a 77W instead of a 744 for a couple of weeks in Nov.
Source---> http://airlineroute.net/2014/10/27/br-yvr-nov14/

craneSpotter
Oct 27, 2014, 8:52 PM
I thought DXB was a non_starter, given that Emirates spat with Ottawa, and the fact that they now fly out of Seattle.
Qatar Airways, I understand, applied for YVR landing rights a while back, but have so far been refused.
The South American connection, if it unfolds, will be something to behold!

Yeah, DXB was a bit of a joke based on the past rumors... and the Emirates dog & pony show that came to Canada a few years ago :D

I think a SA connection will happen within a few years (hopefully something announced by 2015)...reading between the lines on what the airport authority has been saying.

deasine
Oct 29, 2014, 9:44 PM
I don't think the South America option is as easy as Richmond touts it to be. If anything the TWOV would really help Air Canada increase its hubbing operation in YYZ as YYZ will definitely be going after this programme. For hubbing operations to work, it needs a strong hub carrier and YVR does not have that.

In the last 5-years, we've seen the end of many multi-carrier routes: British Airways and Qantas through their original (and arguably most iconic) Kangaroo route used to have BA operate services from LHR to BKK, HKG, and SIN, with QF picking up the rest of the way to Australia. For many reasons namely increased competition, QF opted to partner with EK instead now, and even the new EK-QF relationship is more EK sided than the equal BA-QF relationship. For YVR to become a South American hub as Richmond has envisioned, either:


Air Canada develops South American routes which for reasons I already discussed does not seem likely to happen due to the existing availability of routes at YYZ (as it seems YVR would not have the TWOV competitive advantage for too long) and because YVR would not have enough O&D to support routes to South America
South American carriers to be attracted to fly to YVR but this requires further feed - There are only three international airlines in Latin America/South America likely to do this: Avianca, Copa, and LAN. Avianca is part of Star Alliance and while there hasn't been too many partnerships, it would be logical to operate with AC. It could be possible for them to operate to YVR instead of YYZ to not "directly" compete with AC. However, Avianca has a lot of their hands tied right now with integration of their subsidiaries and Asia has not really been their main concentration focus (I see them likely growing in Europe first and using European hubs to feed onto Asia). Copa's niche is more for North America-South America with Panama as a centre hub rather than for international ambitions, but even if they were to expand beyond this niche market, it would most likely take form using United's vast international network. LAN could start, but this banks on them making new relationships with other carriers, most likely oneworld carriers: JAL and Cathay Pacific are the main Asian oneworld carriers, but JAL has limited presence in YVR and Cathay acts more alone in oneworld.

Jebby
Oct 29, 2014, 9:48 PM
I don't see any of those three South/Central American airlines setting up a Vancouver route for connections to Asia. There just isn't the market for that, IMO.

All three airlines are more focused on expanding throughout Latin America and their international (non-LATAM) routes are heavily favoured towards the US and Europe (Spain, in particular).


Edit: Should clarify, by LATAM I meant Latin America, not LATAM Airlines Group which is the owner of LAN and TAM airlines.

SpongeG
Oct 30, 2014, 5:32 AM
so i was looking at some flights from calgary to tokyo as i was thinking of going there at some point, most of the options went via vancouver, some through seattle and san francisco, but one of the opetions went via minneapolis and than seattle lol wtf

Johnny Aussie
Oct 30, 2014, 7:06 AM
AC rouge is adding a fifth daily on the YVR-LAX route next summer. This will be operated by a 763.

The daily 763 will rotate through HNL and OGG which will increase to 5 weekly and 2 weekly respectively. This makes the Hawaii operation daily next summer from 5 weekly (4 HNL and 1 OGG) this past summer.

So rouge will have 4 daily 319s and a daily 763 to LAX.

Perhaps jockeying for position for the summer scheds early.

The way it stands now YVR-LAX will be up to 17 daily up from 12 this past summer.

nname
Oct 30, 2014, 7:33 PM
^ I smell cheap tickets to LA this summer :D

EDIT: Its $246, a whole $100 cheaper than the cheapest I got last summer... The US actually imposed more tax than the one-way base fare now... :yuck:

Derek
Oct 30, 2014, 11:31 PM
AC rouge is adding a fifth daily on the YVR-LAX route next summer. This will be operated by a 763.

The daily 763 will rotate through HNL and OGG which will increase to 5 weekly and 2 weekly respectively. This makes the Hawaii operation daily next summer from 5 weekly (4 HNL and 1 OGG) this past summer.

So rouge will have 4 daily 319s and a daily 763 to LAX.

Perhaps jockeying for position for the summer scheds early.

The way it stands now YVR-LAX will be up to 17 daily up from 12 this past summer.

Still nothing to SAN? :(

Johnny Aussie
Oct 31, 2014, 12:38 AM
Still nothing to SAN? :(

Possibly on the cards for late 2015.... among others. Rouge is far from finished with YVR.

....stay tuned to this station for your regular updates.

excel
Oct 31, 2014, 1:07 AM
^ You're the man Johnny.

teriyaki
Oct 31, 2014, 3:20 AM
Possibly on the cards for late 2015.... among others. Rouge is far from finished with YVR.

....stay tuned to this station for your regular updates.

Always tuned to this station. :notacrook:

Johnny Aussie
Oct 31, 2014, 8:07 AM
Been some discussions lately about cargo and Canadian airports.

Most Canadian airports seem to keep their cargo stats fairly private. YVR reports monthly which appears higher than the Stats Canada figures. Stats Canada does provide some pretty decent tables.

YVR seems to be a solid #2 when it comes to cargo and some decent growth is being witnessed this year.

List ranked by total cargo in tonnes for 2012 (> 30,000 tonnes):

1) YYZ 345,826
2) YVR 193,353
3) YHM 89,563
4) YYC 81,828
5) YUL 78,555
6) YMX 69,827
7) YWG 68,608
8) YHZ 30,070

Source: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/51-203-x/2012000/t005-eng.htm

Denscity
Oct 31, 2014, 6:34 PM
This is my favourite channel Johnny love your programming!
^^^ Hamilton is punching above its weight in cargo.

twoNeurons
Oct 31, 2014, 8:28 PM
Air Canada Rouge modifies planned Vancouver – Osaka Service in S15

Update at 0800GMT 22OCT14

Air Canada rouge on Tuesday 21OCT14 opened reservations for planned Vancouver – Osaka Kansai service, starting 01MAY15. Based on inventory listing, rouge will offer 4 weekly flights from 01MAY15 to 24MAY15 (YVR departure), instead of 5. The 5th weekly service will be added from 26MAY15.

Flight number change is also effect.

AC1951 YVR1205 – 1455+1KIX 763 x146
AC1952 KIX1625 – 1000YVR 763 x257

Service operates Day x46 from YVR, Day x57 from KIX from 26MAY15. Previously AC planned to operate this route as AC1927/1928.

http://airlineroute.net/2014/10/22/zx-kix-s15update2/

So, what are the differences between rouge and AC regular on int'l flights? Flights starting at $897 to KIX all-in is really competitive. Looks like taxes on the flight are only $97. I wonder if this means aeroplan miles for a rouge flight would actually be cheap.

Apart from the older planes, I mean.

trofirhen
Oct 31, 2014, 10:31 PM
The location of YVR on a flat river delta island, and known to all to lie within a heighly seismic region,
would seem to necessitate earthquake-resistance engineering. What, and to how deep an extent, has been done at YVR, given the context?

deasine
Oct 31, 2014, 11:23 PM
The control tower is the only part of the airport that would survive in a large earthquake.

trofirhen
Oct 31, 2014, 11:38 PM
The control tower is the only part of the airport that would survive in a large earthquake.
Thanks.:) ..... (yeeeeesh):uhh:

trofirhen
Nov 2, 2014, 12:02 AM
I don't think the South America option is as easy as Richmond touts it to be. If anything the TWOV would really help Air Canada increase its hubbing operation in YYZ as YYZ will definitely be going after this programme. For hubbing operations to work, it needs a strong hub carrier and YVR does not have that.

In the last 5-years, we've seen the end of many multi-carrier routes: British Airways and Qantas through their original (and arguably most iconic) Kangaroo route used to have BA operate services from LHR to BKK, HKG, and SIN, with QF picking up the rest of the way to Australia. For many reasons namely increased competition, QF opted to partner with EK instead now, and even the new EK-QF relationship is more EK sided than the equal BA-QF relationship. For YVR to become a South American hub as Richmond has envisioned, either:


Air Canada develops South American routes which for reasons I already discussed does not seem likely to happen due to the existing availability of routes at YYZ (as it seems YVR would not have the TWOV competitive advantage for too long) and because YVR would not have enough O&D to support routes to South America
South American carriers to be attracted to fly to YVR but this requires further feed - There are only three international airlines in Latin America/South America likely to do this: Avianca, Copa, and LAN. Avianca is part of Star Alliance and while there hasn't been too many partnerships, it would be logical to operate with AC. It could be possible for them to operate to YVR instead of YYZ to not "directly" compete with AC. However, Avianca has a lot of their hands tied right now with integration of their subsidiaries and Asia has not really been their main concentration focus (I see them likely growing in Europe first and using European hubs to feed onto Asia). Copa's niche is more for North America-South America with Panama as a centre hub rather than for international ambitions, but even if they were to expand beyond this niche market, it would most likely take form using United's vast international network. LAN could start, but this banks on them making new relationships with other carriers, most likely oneworld carriers: JAL and Cathay Pacific are the main Asian oneworld carriers, but JAL has limited presence in YVR and Cathay acts more alone in oneworld.


Everything you state is, I'm sure, right-on, Deasine, but I have a few questions if I may.
1: WHY does Vancouver not have a strong hub carrier?
2: Once the TWOV is put in place, although it will pale compared to YYZ, will it not at least serve some purpose? Surely it won't end up a white elephant, or will it?
3: I read that LAN has already expressed an interest in using YVR if the TWOV facility is built. Would this not mean at least a connection to Lima?
4: Johnny noticed a substantial O&D market between Brazil and Vancouver. Is that to be discounted?
5: Would the BC -based mining industries, and their holdings in the Andean region not figure into this?
6: KL (Skyteam) has already expressed an interest in a route leg onward from YVR to Lima. Is that not a positive sign, or is it just wishful thinking?

I guess I'm saying that I hope the YVR TWOV facility will, at least, have some purpose, even if it will be dwarfed by YYZ.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 2, 2014, 12:24 AM
Everything you state is, I'm sure, right-on, Deasine, but I have a few questions if I may.
1: WHY does Vancouver not have a strong hub carrier?
2: Once the TWOV is put in place, although it will pale compared to YYZ, will it not at least serve some purpose? Surely it won't end up a white elephant, or will it?
3: I read that LAN has already expressed an interest in using YVR if the TWOV facility is built. Would this not mean at least a connection to Lima?
4: Johnny noticed a substantial O&D market between Brazil and Vancouver. Is that to be discounted?
5: Would the BC -based mining industries, and their holdings in the Andean region not figure into this?
6: KL (Skyteam) has already expressed an interest in a route leg onward from YVR to Lima. Is that not a positive sign, or is it just wishful thinking?

I guess I'm saying that I hope the YVR TWOV facility will, at least, have some purpose, even if it will be dwarfed by YYZ.

Please try not to take this rude.... But....

I feel like I'm trapped in a washing machine with a repeat wash cycle.... Over and over and over and over and over (repeat 10,000 times).

What is so hard to understand.

YVR-South America is a small market.

Yes the TWOV program may help YVR a bit. But absolutely this will favour YYZ.

Yes YVR may actually nab a few flights to South America. But we are talking maybe a few weekly flights to maybe LIM, maybe SCL, maybe GRU, maybe EZE.... Maybe a total of up to maybe 7 flights a week...but that's all folks. maybe maybe maybe.

Yes there is a pretty decent YVR-Brazil market but enough to warrant frequent direct flights? No.

Yes KE (not KL) is potentially interested in flying to LIM (possibly via YVR).

So other than that I don't understand this constant questioning why YVR is not some sort of super hub to grab all this South America-Asia traffic.

trofirhen
Nov 2, 2014, 12:29 AM
I feel like I'm trapped in a washing machine with a repeat wash cycle.... Over and over and over and over and over (repeat 10,000 times).

What is so hard to understand.

YVR-South America is a small market.

Yes the TWOV program may help YVR a bit. But absolutely this will favour YYZ.

Yes YVR may actually nab a few flights to South America. But we are talking maybe a few weekly flights to maybe LIM, maybe SCL, maybe GRU, maybe EZE.... Maybe a total of up to maybe 7 flights a week...but that's all folks. maybe maybe maybe.

Yes there is a pretty decent YVR-Brazil market but enough to warrant frequent direct flights? No.

Yes KE (not KL) is potentially interested in flying to LIM (possibly via YVR).

So other than that I don't understand this constant questioning why YVR is not some sort of super hub to grab all this South America-Asia traffic.
Your points are all well made, and now I understand .... except one thing.
WHY does YVR not have a strong hub carrier? It's the second largest airport in the country.
And by the way, I NEVER expected YVR to become a "super-hub" at all. I just hoped for a bit of route expansion, that's all.

spaceprobe
Nov 2, 2014, 12:56 AM
Your points are all well made, and now I understand .... except one thing.
WHY does YVR not have a strong hub carrier? It's the second largest airport in the country.
And by the way, I NEVER expected YVR to become a "super-hub" at all. I just hoped for a bit of route expansion, that's all.

would the TWOV actually hurt YVR in the long run? If it allows for a much larger share of Asian traffic to go through YYZ en route to south america or elsewhere, that would increase direct flights to YYZ from Asia and reduce the necessity or number of people transferring in YVR to go to YYZ.

casper
Nov 2, 2014, 1:08 AM
Your points are all well made, and now I understand .... except one thing.
WHY does YVR not have a strong hub carrier? It's the second largest airport in the country.
And by the way, I NEVER expected YVR to become a "super-hub" at all. I just hoped for a bit of route expansion, that's all.

YVR has a strong hub carrier and it goes by the name of "Air Canada":

Per Wikipedia. This hub carrier flies to: Beijing–Capital, Calgary, Edmonton, Hong Kong, Honolulu, Kahului, Kelowna, London–Heathrow, Mexico City, Montréal–Trudeau, Newark, Ottawa, Seoul–Incheon, Shanghai–Pudong, Sydney, Tokyo–Narita, Toronto–Pearson, Winnipeg, Castlegar, Cranbrook, Fort McMurray, Fort St. John, Kamloops, Kelowna, Nanaimo, Penticton, Portland (OR), Prince George, Prince Rupert, Regina, Sandspit, Saskatoon, Seattle/Tacoma, Smithers, Terrace, Victoria, Whitehorse,Las Vegas, Los Angeles, and San Francisco
Seasonal: Ixtapa/Zihuatanejo, Kailua-Kona, San José del Cabo, Anchorage, Osaka-Kansai, Palm Springs, Phoenix, Puerto Vallarta

It has another strong hub carrier called WestJet that is restricted to North American destinations.

trofirhen
Nov 2, 2014, 1:20 AM
YVR has a strong hub carrier and it goes by the name of "Air Canada":

Per Wikipedia. This hub carrier flies to: Beijing–Capital, Calgary, Edmonton, Hong Kong, Honolulu, Kahului, Kelowna, London–Heathrow, Mexico City, Montréal–Trudeau, Newark, Ottawa, Seoul–Incheon, Shanghai–Pudong, Sydney, Tokyo–Narita, Toronto–Pearson, Winnipeg, Castlegar, Cranbrook, Fort McMurray, Fort St. John, Kamloops, Kelowna, Nanaimo, Penticton, Portland (OR), Prince George, Prince Rupert, Regina, Sandspit, Saskatoon, Seattle/Tacoma, Smithers, Terrace, Victoria, Whitehorse,Las Vegas, Los Angeles, and San Francisco
Seasonal: Ixtapa/Zihuatanejo, Kailua-Kona, San José del Cabo, Anchorage, Osaka-Kansai, Palm Springs, Phoenix, Puerto Vallarta

It has another strong hub carrier called WestJet that is restricted to North American destinations.
Thank you.
Not to start any dispute, but this refutes DEASINE'S claim that Vancouver does NOT have a strong hub carrier. I'm at a loss what to believe. Or maybe that Air Canada will never fly from YVR to any South American destinations, and that any such flights (meagre in number, it seems) would have to be taken up by LAN, Avianca, TAM, and such, thereby presenting competition for Air Canada, and keeping YYZ in, while shutting YVR out (?)

casper
Nov 2, 2014, 1:37 AM
Thank you.
Not to start any dispute, but this refutes DEASINE'S claim that Vancouver does NOT have a strong hub carrier. I'm at a loss what to believe. Or maybe that Air Canada will never fly from YVR to any South American destinations, and that any such flights (meagre in number, it seems) would have to be taken up by LAN, Avianca, TAM, and such, thereby presenting competition for Air Canada, and keeping YYZ in, while shutting YVR out (?)

It is just a reflection of the differences between North American and other parts of the world. Most North American airlines operate multiple hubs. Air Canada has Toronto, Vancouver Montreal and Calgary. Delta as Seattle, LA, Atlanta, MSP, etc. The European and Asian airlines mostly have just one hub.

When Air Canada adds a new route it has to decided between Toronto or Vancouver or both. If it is faster, cheaper etc. to connect Brazil with Asia through Toronto that is what they will do.

Vancouver does not have a strong international carrier that exclusively uses Vancouver as its hub.

Air Canada does have some routes it operates exclusively from Vancouver. Examples include its service to Australia, South Korea, and the new Osaka route.

trofirhen
Nov 2, 2014, 1:44 AM
It is just a reflection of the differences between North American and other parts of the world. Most North American airlines operate multiple hubs. Air Canada has Toronto, Vancouver Montreal and Calgary. Delta as Seattle, LA, Atlanta, MSP, etc. The European and Asian airlines mostly have just one hub.

When Air Canada adds a new route it has to decided between Toronto or Vancouver or both. If it is faster, cheaper etc. to connect Brazil with Asia through Toronto that is what they will do.

Vancouver does not have a strong international carrier that exclusively uses Vancouver as its hub.

Air Canada does have some routes it operates exclusively from Vancouver. Examples include its service to Australia, South Korea, and the new Osaka route.
Thank you for that clarification. Maybe this is only wishful thinking and nothing else,
but I still hope that the TWOV facility will result in something, even if only one or two otherwise-unfeasible routes.

Cage
Nov 2, 2014, 3:29 AM
First airline to blink on YVR-LAX, from airline outer.com

@airlineroute: Alaska Airlines reduces Los Angeles - Vancouver service from 3 to 1 daily, from 06JAN15

Johnny Aussie
Nov 2, 2014, 4:20 AM
First airline to blink on YVR-LAX, from airline outer.com

@airlineroute: Alaska Airlines reduces Los Angeles - Vancouver service from 3 to 1 daily, from 06JAN15

Just saw that on Twitter.

Not surprised in the least. Something had to give.

Let's see what the next move is.. perhaps that's it. Will see if this gets carried into the summer. To think they were going to be adding capacity this winter to a complete reversal.

Even with that pullout the YVR-LAX market will still see more capacity than last winter.

Imagine AS used to fly about 13 daily mainline ex YVR.... and then there was 1!

And on another note I am abandoning Aeroplan. Anyone else?

Cage
Nov 2, 2014, 5:27 AM
And on another note I am abandoning Aeroplan. Anyone else?

I left Aeroplane last year for UA. Mostly because I was flying YYC to DEN and/or IAH on monthly basis. Unlimited domestic upgrades and free E+ moved me over. However with no credit card program to deposit into UA miles, I have TD aeroplan card.

If you want to find a bunch of others leaving Aeroplan, take a gander over at flyertalk.

casper
Nov 2, 2014, 4:28 PM
I left Aeroplane last year for UA. Mostly because I was flying YYC to DEN and/or IAH on monthly basis. Unlimited domestic upgrades and free E+ moved me over. However with no credit card program to deposit into UA miles, I have TD aeroplan card.

If you want to find a bunch of others leaving Aeroplan, take a gander over at flyertalk.

I use to be an Aeropalan Elete for many years. Related to Victoria and I find my self on Alaska and WestJet more frequently that Air Canada these days. I put the WestJet points into the American program and the Alaska, Delta, American and Air France points into the Alaska program. Still fly Air Canada but am far less loyal to Air Canada than in the past now I just look for the best schedule, routing comfort and price.

I can get WestJet plus for about the same as a Air Canada Economy seat that earns points. It just becomes pointless to worry about the points program.

deasine
Nov 2, 2014, 5:15 PM
Air Canada may officially call Vancouver a hub in its books, but it is very clear Air Canada favours Toronto over Vancouver in its hubbing operations. Anyone that thinks Air Canada is a strong hub-carrier in Vancouver clearly does not know the nature of Air Canada's market and their target operations. They've explicitly admitted in the past that AC will be focusing on hubbing operations in YYZ and the partnerships with GTAA already indicate this is happening and will continue to happen. And in AC's defense, why not? AC's target moving forward is the fifth freedom traffic that happens between the United States and Asia (notice not so much in Atlantic due to the previous agreements with United, Lufthansa). The majority of flights AC's existing Canada-US flights are based on the East Coast. This is why AC decided to relaunch the HND flights from YYZ and not from YVR, to target passengers on the east coast. YVR's existing AC network does not offer this and would require a lot more capacity (and thus expenditure) in order to match YYZs network.

Another issue is YVR's low yield. In the recent "rouging" of flights AC has conducted, a majority of which were to replace existing mainline routes and many of which were done on the west coast. This is indicative of a low yielding market which requires lower costs in order to remain competitive with other airlines offering such routes in the industry. The rouge routes from YYZ in the US all go to vacation/sun destinations that are low yielding, none of them were to major American cities.

The evidence suggests AC will not be the carrier to launch any flights to South American cities within the short-term. In terms of the Asian-South American market, there is nothing YVR offers over YYZ with the exception of one KIX rouge flight which was not developed to target any of this market anyways. Distance wise between Asia and South America, a transfer between YVR and YYZ is really no different. YYZ also has many more AC frequencies (notice I said AC, not Star Alliance codeshare flights) to many of the Asian destinations and have the existing flights to South America as opposed to developing a whole new network for YVR, thus incurring risk.

As I have said before, YVR knows what the target business is and they aim to attract foreign airlines to fly to YVR to stimulate its market. It never relied on one sole hub carrier. Richmond's call for the TWOV programme is aimed to target airlines like KE to add a fifth-freedom route (if they ever get approved by Transport Canada is, KE might be interested but Transport Canada is not). But a big risk for KE to add on a fifth-freedom leg to LIM as opposed to doing it via LAX is at LAX, there's also an ability to attract traffic coming from other parts of North America, but in YVR, there isn't really except for YYC and SEA which could have been done through LAX anyway.

---

Johnny I'm surprised you are on Aeroplan given that you are based in MEL. I know QF's redemption is pretty poor in its Frequent Flyer programme, but do you really make enough flights to Canada to benefit from using Aeroplan? It seems other oneworld carriers might be better options: AA for instance.

casper
Nov 2, 2014, 7:46 PM
Air Canada may officially call Vancouver a hub in its books, but it is very clear Air Canada favours Toronto over Vancouver in its hubbing operations. Anyone that thinks Air Canada is a strong hub-carrier in Vancouver clearly does not know the nature of Air Canada's market and their target operations. They've explicitly admitted in the past that AC will be focusing on hubbing operations in YYZ and the partnerships with GTAA already indicate this is happening and will continue to happen. And in AC's defense, why not? AC's target moving forward is the fifth freedom traffic that happens between the United States and Asia (notice not so much in Atlantic due to the previous agreements with United, Lufthansa). The majority of flights AC's existing Canada-US flights are based on the East Coast. This is why AC decided to relaunch the HND flights from YYZ and not from YVR, to target passengers on the east coast. YVR's existing AC network does not offer this and would require a lot more capacity (and thus expenditure) in order to match YYZs network.



I think Air Canada has a major hub in Vancouver. It is a hub inherited from when it merged with Canadian (Canadian Pacific). There are quite a few international destinations served from Vancouver that are not served from Toronto. Those include Korea, Hawaii, Australia.

Air Canada basically fly from Vancouver non-stop to Europe, Asia and Australia.

Vancouver to California is just odd market with competition between Air Canada, WestJet, American, Alaska, Delta and United.

I do agree that Air Canada is not putting much effort into expanding its Vancouver Hub by adding new destinations. It has added the odd flight here and there. It is flying bigger aircraft to these destinations that before. I remember when Australia was served by a 767 with a refilling stop in Hawaii.

Air Canada has not de-hubbed (Vancouver) either. The way some US carriers have handled getting rid of hubs they did not want any more. United had Seattle as a hub for some time and now that is gone. US Airways dropped Vegas as a hub. There are a host of similar examples.

trofirhen
Nov 2, 2014, 8:28 PM
I'm encouraged by your statement that Air Canada has not "de-hubbed" Vancouver, as has happened in some American cities, as you point out.
If, in fact, Air Canada DID "de-hub" Vancouver, there wouldn't really be anything but Wesjet to take its place, and they only do North America.
So, I guess AC is sort of obliged to keep a Vancouver hub, although YYZ is, of course, their mega-hub, and they want to keep it that way.
They've cut way back, for example, at YUL, which is now only the fourth busiest airport in Canada.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 2, 2014, 10:06 PM
Just tweeted from YVR

“@yvrairport: You’re going to love our newest direct service from YVR! Big announcement tomorrow morning."

Very unlike YVR to give teasers like this.

"City of Love" perhaps? Hmmmmmm......

As for AS cutting LAX-YVR... the jury appears to be out on that as AS insiders saying it was a glitch but others saying it's not (ie zeroed-out inventory).. I will give an update if I learn anything... Scheds still showing 3-4 daily in OAG, Amadeus, Alaskaair.com scheds...

Klazu
Nov 2, 2014, 10:11 PM
I don't understand the panic and worry some people have over YYZ "taking over" YVR routes and becoming the only Air Canada hub in Canada. We live in the world's second largest country and YYZ and YVR are located almost on the opposite ends of this vast country, some 5 hours apart. Sure, YYZ will always be the biggest hub for Air Canada, but I cannot see how it could really threat Western Canada (the growing part of the country) airports and YVR specifically. They are just way too far from each other and can both exist as the western and eastern hubs for this country.

I am actually much more surprised how much service Air Canada provides from Calgary and Montreal, which could both easily be just spokes for the true hubs that are YYZ and YVR. Montreal of course is a large city, but it is still very close to Toronto and in many other countries people would have to fly via the hub airport much more frequently than people out of Montreal today have to do.

For example in Germany Frankfurt and Munich are the only two hubs for Lufthansa and for example Berlin, Hamburg and the Ruhr Megapolis, while much larger cities, are only Lufthansa focus cities with very little direct flights other than to some European countries. Flying long-haul on Lufthansa will require Berliners and Hamburgers(?) to always fly via Frankfurt or Munich.

In that context I think Air Canada is providing pretty superior service from YYZ, YVR, YYC and YUL. Just some layman thinking. :)

Johnny Aussie
Nov 2, 2014, 10:19 PM
I don't understand the panic and worry some people have over YYZ "taking over" YVR routes and becoming the only Air Canada hub in Canada. We live in the world's second largest country and YYZ and YVR are located almost on the opposite ends of this vast country, some 5 hours apart. Sure, YYZ will always be the biggest hub for Air Canada, but I cannot see how it could really threat Western Canada (the growing part of the country) airports and YVR specifically. They are just way too far from each other and can both exist as the western and eastern hubs for this country.

Yup... and it gets brought up over and over and over and over......

There has been so much growth at YVR... Not just in pax and cargo numbers... But new airlines, new routes, plenty of capacity increases in a vast array of viable markets. Yes, YVR has lost a couple (VS to LHR and TS pulling FRA)... but those are being offset by so many increases and additions in other markets. Intelligent answers like yours are constantly given yet.... the constant questioning of YVR's hub status or lack thereof or whatever YVR is...??

And again... YVR may see limited additions to Europe and possibly limited direct services to South America but that's all YVR can expect... Limited additions to those areas.

YVR is very well served for a city it's size, demographics, geographic location etc (full stop!)

Johnny Aussie
Nov 2, 2014, 11:00 PM
Johnny I'm surprised you are on Aeroplan given that you are based in MEL. I know QF's redemption is pretty poor in its Frequent Flyer programme, but do you really make enough flights to Canada to benefit from using Aeroplan? It seems other oneworld carriers might be better options: AA for instance.

Being on Aeroplan was just a legacy of being in the plan for so long and even after I moved to Australia over 10 years ago it has served me very well as I get Gold benefits on SQ and NZ my two main carriers. Plus I have good status with Virgin Australia so I avoid the one world group mainly because of QF. Kind of sucks after Ansett collapsed but oh well.

But with the latest round of devaluations... even after the revised ones.... that was the last straw. No point. Getting the minimum AC equivalent was easy... but now... looks too tricky to bother even trying... soooo... farewell! All I need is to have Gold with any star carrier to get the benefits I will need. Even having SE on AC is pointless when travelling on any other star carrier. They don't care if you are 50K, 75K or 100K... It's all Gold to them. I will have Gold for next year already so now planning on the alternates!

I left Aeroplane last year for UA. Mostly because I was flying YYC to DEN and/or IAH on monthly basis. Unlimited domestic upgrades and free E+ moved me over. However with no credit card program to deposit into UA miles, I have TD aeroplan card.

If you want to find a bunch of others leaving Aeroplan, take a gander over at flyertalk.

Thanks for the heads up... Had a good read of some alternates out there.

deasine
Nov 2, 2014, 11:05 PM
I want to clarify I did not say AC was dehubbing YVR by any means. I am just stating the treatment of YVR is very different than YYZ. In many ways, YVR is similar to YUL in that AC uses both hubs and continues to fly to certain long-haul markets for their O&D traffic. YUL still has a number of European routes just as YVR has a strong Asian base. YYZ just has a combination of both, and more. The whole nature of this discussion was because trofirhen's query and thus my input is directly catered towards the question and should not be interpreted for other markets.

In response to the tweet, YVR has been doing a lot of marketing work working with airlines to ensure viability for new services. We've been seeing a lot of work done by YVR-airline, Iceland air and China Southern scavenger hunts, etc. and I expect more creative marketing and hyping to continue in its strategy moving forward. This also goes back to the whole hub discussion, with most airports, there is less marketing work done by the airports to market new routes because generally the main airport user is the hub carrier.

Denscity
Nov 2, 2014, 11:52 PM
YVR to CDG on Rouge perhaps?? Another major city connection. :cheers:

Hourglass
Nov 3, 2014, 6:37 AM
Just tweeted from YVR

“@yvrairport: You’re going to love our newest direct service from YVR! Big announcement tomorrow morning."

Very unlike YVR to give teasers like this.

"City of Love" perhaps? Hmmmmmm......

If the tweet is a hint, it could very well be CDG. Then again, with the growth of aviation in China, it could easily be a route to some second-tier city in China. Wasn't a non-stop to Xiamen rumored sometime back?

There's one poster here who'd really be hoping for CDG...

nname
Nov 3, 2014, 7:05 AM
Xiamen Air is going to launch service to AMS in 2015, according to an ad that just leaked today... Would they launch 2 international routes at the same time?

Canadian74
Nov 3, 2014, 4:08 PM
YVR-CDG on Air France 772.
Starts with 3x weekly late March 2015, then 5x weekly during the summer.

s211
Nov 3, 2014, 4:15 PM
YVR-CDG on Air France 772.
Starts with 3x weekly late March 2015, then 5x weekly during the summer.

What a lovely way to start off a wet Monday morning! Nothing like good news to start off the week on a good note. :)

Valley_Refugee
Nov 3, 2014, 4:56 PM
Goodness, CDG flights announced and no trofirhen response yet? Isn't this the global super mega hub we've been waiting for? To lift us out of our provincial backwater status as a third-rate airport which Air Canada only deigns to serve with token flights?

Yup... and it gets brought up over and over and over and over......

There has been so much growth at YVR... Not just in pax and cargo numbers... But new airlines, new routes, plenty of capacity increases in a vast array of viable markets. Yes, YVR has lost a couple (VS to LHR and TS pulling FRA)... but those are being offset by so many increases and additions in other markets. Intelligent answers like yours are constantly given yet.... the constant questioning of YVR's hub status or lack thereof or whatever YVR is...??

And again... YVR may see limited additions to Europe and possibly limited direct services to South America but that's all YVR can expect... Limited additions to those areas.

YVR is very well served for a city it's size, demographics, geographic location etc (full stop!)

Johnny and I and many others have beat this horse to death every time this somewhat silly topic of conversation comes up. Vancouver is a relatively small city and limited by its income demographics, but by virtue of its larger status in Canada and its geographic location, it is very well served by both Air Canada and foreign carriers. Look at the tails one can see at the airport at any given time...

thegx
Nov 3, 2014, 4:58 PM
So this will likely be Air Transat's last season operating CDG?

Canadian74
Nov 3, 2014, 5:29 PM
So this will likely be Air Transat's last season operating CDG?

Probably not, they are targeting different pax.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 3, 2014, 6:21 PM
See what happens when I try and get some sleep!

So my ooh la la comment weeks ago had some credence. :-)

More info here ---> http://airlineroute.net/2014/11/03/af-yvr-s15/

And AF becomes YVR's 20th international (overseas) carrier... if you include Qantas of course!

And YVR shoots back up to 69 weekly flights to Europe next summer with this addition. Same as 2014. But capacity will be higher.

YVR's press release ---> http://yvr.ca/en/flight-information/latest-information/14-11-03/Mais_Oui_Paris-2769299286.aspx

Will be operated by 309 seater 772s.

And the same day KLM announces YEG (finally!!) worst kept secret ever ;-)

Denscity
Nov 3, 2014, 7:03 PM
:cheers: Welcome to YVR AIR FRANCE!!! :cheers:
Another exotic international airline for YVR!!!

Klazu
Nov 3, 2014, 7:29 PM
Excellent news. I have never flow with AF or connected through CDG, as many people have suggested in the past that they are the most sure combo to lose your luggage upon transit. :rolleyes:

I am sure they are fine and this is just an urban myth.

trofirhen
Nov 3, 2014, 7:37 PM
FORMIDABLE !!! (Charles Aznavour)

Denscity
Nov 3, 2014, 7:59 PM
FORMIDABLE !!! (Charles Aznavour)

Congratulations Trofirhen your life long dream came true!!

Gordon
Nov 3, 2014, 9:07 PM
Air France that's great.
When does phase 2 of The Pier A\b connector open?

craneSpotter
Nov 3, 2014, 9:18 PM
:cheers: Welcome to YVR AIR FRANCE!!! :cheers:
Another exotic international airline for YVR!!!

:tup: Awesome news... Lets hope Qantas becomes year-round! And that another foreign carrier adds YVR in 2015 :)

Kapten
Nov 3, 2014, 9:27 PM
The former Aviation World store on Russ Baker reopened todat under new ownership. They are called Flight City and they have a nice selection of airline models etc.

trofirhen
Nov 3, 2014, 9:28 PM
:tup: Awesome news... Lets hope Qantas becomes year-round! And that another foreign carrier adds YVR in 2015 :)
Yes!! While YVR may not be a massive airline hub like YYZ, for a city of our size, we do have a lot of airlines here. And, yes, Qantas come back!! It would be like regaining an old friend, who left long ago, only to return to a warm welcome.:cheers:

Johnny Aussie
Nov 3, 2014, 11:34 PM
Yes!! While YVR may not be a massive airline hub like YYZ, for a city of our size, we do have a lot of airlines here. And, yes, Qantas come back!! It would be like regaining an old friend, who left long ago, only to return to a warm welcome.:cheers:

Yes, I am pretty confident QF will become "seasonally" year-round, if that makes any sense. The word here is most likely YVR will see Qantas through the YVR summer months and the peak winter months.

Something like June - September and December - February. So operating 6-7 months of the year.

Be good to get AF and LH to MUC year-round instead of summer seasonal but Western Canada - Europe is a tough market in the winter.

Airlines offering year-round international (overseas) YVR flights:

Air Canada, Air China, Air New Zealand, Air Transat, All Nippon Airways, British Airways, Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, China Eastern, China Southern, Eva Air, Japan Air Lines, KLM, Korean Air, Lufthansa, Philippine Airlines, Sichuan Airlines

Airlines offering seasonal international (overseas) YVR flights:

Air Canada rouge, Air France, Condor, Edelweiss, Icelandair and Qantas ---> plus Air Transat really ramps up European services in the summer and LH does MUC of course.

cyeg66
Nov 3, 2014, 11:37 PM
Now let's get on those GIG, SCL, EZE, LIM, BOG, and GRU flights!!! Lol, just bustin' your ballz, trofirhen. Congrats on CDG and AF, YVR! "Vive le Vancouvaire libre"! :cheers:

trofirhen
Nov 4, 2014, 12:04 AM
......Airlines offering year-round international (overseas) YVR flights:

Air Canada, Air China, Air New Zealand, Air Transat (LGW goes year-round), All Nippon Airways, British Airways, Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, China Eastern, China Southern, Eva Air, Japan Air Lines, KLM, Korean Air, Lufthansa, Philippine Airlines, Sichuan Airlines

Airlines offering seasonal international (oversease) YVR flights:

Air Canada rouge, Air France, Condor, Edelweiss, Icelandair and Qantas ---> plus Air Transat really ramps up European services in the summer and LH does MUC of course.
ooops!! AF is still going to be seasonal only with nothing in winter. I initially thought it would be year-round after next year. Oh well, off to a good start, anyway!

casper
Nov 4, 2014, 1:56 AM
ooops!! AF is still going to be seasonal only with nothing in winter. I initially thought it would be year-round after next year. Oh well, off to a good start, anyway!

Excellent news. Perhaps trofirhen campaign helped. It is reasonable to expect Air France to start small and hopefully over time it will grow to year round.

From a personal perspective I like Frankfort and Munich as transit airports. Paris is not as good but still better than Heathrow. Excellent addition. I have been averaging a trip destined to Paris about once a year for business. I will make a point of using this flight, hopefully they have a codeshare lined up with WestJet from Victoria to provide some connections. Last time it was on Alaska and Delta through Seattle.

trofirhen
Nov 4, 2014, 2:31 AM
Excellent news. Perhaps trofirhen campaign helped. It is reasonable to expect Air France to start small and hopefully over time it will grow to year round.


That is what I was thinking, too. At least, in summer, we'll get CDG nonstop 5 times per week, instead of once, as with other charter airlines. I'm hoping that AF is "testing the waters" and that it'll develop into a year-round service. There is plenty of demand in winter, I can tell you, but you have to go in a roundabout way, changing planes, often with long layovers.

Hourglass
Nov 4, 2014, 3:19 AM
Excellent news. Perhaps trofirhen campaign helped. It is reasonable to expect Air France to start small and hopefully over time it will grow to year round.

From a personal perspective I like Frankfort and Munich as transit airports. Paris is not as good but still better than Heathrow. Excellent addition. I have been averaging a trip destined to Paris about once a year for business. I will make a point of using this flight, hopefully they have a codeshare lined up with WestJet from Victoria to provide some connections. Last time it was on Alaska and Delta through Seattle.

It's funny how personal preferences can vary -- whenever possible I try to avoid CDG and FRA as transit points. Paris has been a mess every time I've gone through it, and Frankfurt is seriously one of the least intuitively-designed airports I've seen. Plus if you're unlucky enough to have landed at a remote gate, the bus ride to the terminal can be ridiculously long.

With T5 and the new T2, transiting Heathrow is now actually pretty painless (but all bets are off if there's snow). Agree Munich is good.

Genauso
Nov 4, 2014, 4:20 AM
AF & KLM home hub connections to YVR, I did not expect that. Bravo to the YVR crew

Johnny Aussie
Nov 4, 2014, 11:59 PM
That is what I was thinking, too. At least, in summer, we'll get CDG nonstop 5 times per week, instead of once, as with other charter airlines. I'm hoping that AF is "testing the waters" and that it'll develop into a year-round service. There is plenty of demand in winter, I can tell you, but you have to go in a roundabout way, changing planes, often with long layovers.

Actually... YVR will have 8 direct flights per week to CDG next summer... 7 nonstop and 1 via YYC. 5 on AF and 3 on TS (one of these is via YYC).

That would be the ultimate goal getting year-round service. I would think LH to MUC would be another candidate for year-round service but definitely not daily.

There are still a few rumblings about rouge too to CDG and another destination in Asia (most likely another Japan route). There is still slack in the YVR-KIX route as well. 2 days of idle metal on that 763. The other 763 to be based in YVR will rotate daily through LAX and both Hawaii destinations in the peak summer next year as previously reported.

Also have been reading on the ever reliable airliners.net that KLM is going to daily year-round YVR-AMS in effect with next summer's scheds. This is coming from the same guy who brought up the AF rumour... so there we go.

Europe breakdown of the 69 weekly flights by destination next summer (all nonstop unless noted):

LHR 19
FRA 11
AMS 10 (1 weekly via YYC)
CDG 8 (1 weekly via YYC)
MUC 7
LGW 6
ZRH 3
MAN 2
KEF 2
GLA 1

craneSpotter
Nov 5, 2014, 5:59 AM
Actually... YVR will have 8 direct flights per week to CDG next summer... 7 nonstop and 1 via YYC. 5 on AF and 3 on TS (one of these is via YYC).

That would be the ultimate goal getting year-round service. I would think LH to MUC would be another candidate for year-round service but definitely not daily.

There are still a few rumblings about rouge too to CDG and another destination in Asia (most likely another Japan route). There is still slack in the YVR-KIX route as well. 2 days of idle metal on that 763. The other 763 to be based in YVR will rotate daily through LAX and both Hawaii destinations in the peak summer next year as previously reported.

Also have been reading on the ever reliable airliners.net that KLM is going to daily year-round YVR-AMS in effect with next summer's scheds. This is coming from the same guy who brought up the AF rumour... so there we go.

Europe breakdown of the 69 weekly flights by destination next summer (all nonstop unless noted):

LHR 19
FRA 11
AMS 10 (1 weekly via YYC)
CDG 8 (1 weekly via YYC)
MUC 7
LGW 6
ZRH 3
MAN 2
KEF 2
GLA 1

I noticed that YVR lists SAS to Copenhagen (CPH) under destinations ... wishful thinking or previous route that has been dropped :shrug:

trofirhen
Nov 5, 2014, 6:41 AM
I noticed that YVR lists SAS to Copenhagen (CPH) under destinations ... wishful thinking or previous route that has been dropped :shrug:
SAS never did fly from YVR to CPH. It flew from SEA-TAC to CPH for years (due to Seattle's very large Scandinavian population base), then dropped SEA-TAC.
(Maybe that's why Icelandair is year-round from Seattle; to take up the large Scandinavia-bound traffic from there).

excel
Nov 5, 2014, 7:33 AM
Great news about Air France. I am a big tail watcher. Especially when taxiing right behind them ;)

vanlaw
Nov 5, 2014, 9:12 PM
YVR has announced set taxi fares based on a zone system starting tomorrow (November 6):

http://www.yvr.ca/Libraries/Maps/2014_11_03_FINAL_YVR_Zone_Rates_Map_VERTICAL.sflb.ashx

For the most part it seems reasonable, but some of the jumps from zone to zone are a little much. For instance, I live a block north of Kingsway in East Van. If I get dropped off on the south side of Kingsway and walk a block, it's $29 (taxi from YVR to my place usually comes in around $32-34). If I get dropped off north of Kingsway, it jumps to $41! I think I'll walk the block and save $12.

craneSpotter
Nov 5, 2014, 9:38 PM
I am a big tail watcher.

me too :haha::D

Valley_Refugee
Nov 6, 2014, 1:39 AM
YVR has announced set taxi fares based on a zone system starting tomorrow (November 6):

http://www.yvr.ca/Libraries/Maps/2014_11_03_FINAL_YVR_Zone_Rates_Map_VERTICAL.sflb.ashx

For the most part it seems reasonable, but some of the jumps from zone to zone are a little much. For instance, I live a block north of Kingsway in East Van. If I get dropped off on the south side of Kingsway and walk a block, it's $29 (taxi from YVR to my place usually comes in around $32-34). If I get dropped off north of Kingsway, it jumps to $41! I think I'll walk the block and save $12.

Fare zones at last! I agree the zone jumps are a bit wonky when it comes to the Northeast. Either the Northeast should be $36-38 or there should be a buffer zone. I'll also have to be careful though as I live on the north side of Hastings in Gastown...looks like getting dropped off south of Hastings will save me $5...

Johnny Aussie
Nov 6, 2014, 7:25 PM
2013 keeps getting blown away! Exceeded my expectations. Some very big numbers.

Note: YVR does not include any FBO numbers in its pax counts.

http://yvr.ca/Libraries/Aviation_Marketing/rpt_Traffic_Update_Sep_2014.sflb.ashx

SEPT 2014
Overall up 8.8% to 1,681,291 (up 135.5K)
Domestic up 9.6% to 893,325 (up 78.5K)
Transborder up 10.2% to 383,330 (up 35.4K)
Asia Pacific up 7.0% to 236,110 (up 15.5K)
Europe up 5.3% to 152,888 (up 7.6K)
Misc Int'l down 9.8% to 15,638 (down 1.7K)
Total Int'l (incl transborder) up 7.8% to 787,966 (up 56.9K)

YTD 2014
Overall up 8.2% to 14.9M (up 1.1M)
Domestic up 7.4% to 7.7M (up 527K)
Transborder up 9.0% to 3.7M (up 302K)
Asia Pacific up 12.0% to 2.2M (up 236K)
Europe up 5.8% to 1.1M (up 57K)
Misc Int'l 1.5% to 313K (up 4.5K)
Total Int'l (incl transborder) up 9.0% to 7.2M (up 599K)

Cargo was up 12.8% in September as well (11.5% YTD)

craneSpotter
Nov 6, 2014, 7:31 PM
Just saw that on Twitter.

Not surprised in the least. Something had to give.

Let's see what the next move is.. perhaps that's it. Will see if this gets carried into the summer. To think they were going to be adding capacity this winter to a complete reversal.

Even with that pullout the YVR-LAX market will still see more capacity than last winter.

Imagine AS used to fly about 13 daily mainline ex YVR.... and then there was 1!

And on another note I am abandoning Aeroplan. Anyone else?

I gave up on Aeroplan last year.

Hmmm:

Air Canada rouge Expands Vancouver – Los Angeles Service in S15

Air Canada rouge in Summer 2015 expands Vancouver – Los Angeles operation, as it continues Boeing 767-300ER service on/after 01MAY15. In addition, the airline restores 4th daily from 01MAY15, followed by the addition of 5th daily flight from 01JUL15 to 03SEP15 (AC1983/1982).

AC1983 YVR0620 – 0923LAX 319 D
AC1878 YVR0845 – 1138LAX 763 D
AC1880 YVR1300 – 1600LAX 319 D
AC1882 YVR1610 – 1912LAX 319 D
AC1884 YVR2030 – 2332LAX 319 D

AC1879 LAX0700 – 0944YVR 319 D
AC1982 LAX1005 – 1249YVR 319 D
AC1881 LAX1300 – 1544YVR 763 D
AC1883 LAX1640 – 1924YVR 319 D
AC1885 LAX1955 – 2239YVR 319 D

http://airlineroute.net/2014/11/06/zx-yvrlax-s15/

Johnny Aussie
Nov 6, 2014, 7:44 PM
Hmmm:

[B]Air Canada rouge Expands Vancouver – Los Angeles Service in S15

I posted that increase on 30 Oct. ;-)

But thanks for the complete sched listing though.

Looks like AS reduction is happening. At least for the winter effective 6 Jan. Makes total sense with both DL and AA coming online as AS flew for both DL and AA code shares. So they will lose a lot of that Frequent Flyer base. And a big drawdown for AS to feed the Aussie flights on the late afternoon flight. AS is/was the main feeder for Qantas. Now you will have DL feeding DL and VA (Virgin Australia) and AA feeding QF.

And reading the airliners.net thread is mostly just doom and gloom. It's not like they are dropping the route altogether. There will be 6 airlines on that route with 11 daily flights in the winter and capacity will still be higher than last winter despite this drawdown. But of course the facts just get in the way.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 6, 2014, 8:05 PM
http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=823

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=824

So record profits. Seem to be allocating their resources quite well.

2 777-300ER being purchased.

Consistent J product on all 787s and 777s.

The A330-300s will probably be sticking around longer as Prem Economy going to be added to them.

Replacing 8 E90s with 3 321s and 2 320s.

Etc....

Ooooh... Air Canada calls YVR a "major hub"

"The increase on transcontinental services is partly driven by the positioning of certain Boeing 777 and 787 aircraft at Air Canada's major hubs in Toronto and Vancouver."

Ha!

craneSpotter
Nov 6, 2014, 8:51 PM
I posted that increase on 30 Oct. ;-)

But thanks for the complete sched listing though.

Looks like AS reduction is happening. At least for the winter effective 6 Jan. Makes total sense with both DL and AA coming online as AS flew for both DL and AA code shares. So they will lose a lot of that Frequent Flyer base. And a big drawdown for AS to feed the Aussie flights on the late afternoon flight. AS is/was the main feeder for Qantas. Now you will have DL feeding DL and VA (Virgin Australia) and AA feeding QF.

And reading the airliners.net thread is mostly just doom and gloom. It's not like they are dropping the route altogether. There will be 6 airlines on that route with 11 daily flights in the winter and capacity will still be higher than last winter despite this drawdown. But of course the facts just get in the way.

sorry, didn't see it. :)

zahav
Nov 8, 2014, 2:36 AM
2013 keeps getting blown away! Exceeded my expectations. Some very big numbers.

Note: YVR does not include any FBO numbers in its pax counts.

http://yvr.ca/Libraries/Aviation_Marketing/rpt_Traffic_Update_Sep_2014.sflb.ashx

SEPT 2014
Overall up 8.8% to 1,681,291 (up 135.5K)
Domestic up 9.6% to 893,325 (up 78.5K)
Transborder up 10.2% to 383,330 (up 35.4K)
Asia Pacific up 7.0% to 236,110 (up 15.5K)
Europe up 5.3% to 152,888 (up 7.6K)
Misc Int'l down 9.8% to 15,638 (down 1.7K)
Total Int'l (incl transborder) up 7.8% to 787,966 (up 56.9K)

YTD 2014
Overall up 8.2% to 14.9M (up 1.1M)
Domestic up 7.4% to 7.7M (up 527K)
Transborder up 9.0% to 3.7M (up 302K)
Asia Pacific up 12.0% to 2.2M (up 236K)
Europe up 5.8% to 1.1M (up 57K)
Misc Int'l 1.5% to 313K (up 4.5K)
Total Int'l (incl transborder) up 9.0% to 7.2M (up 599K)

Cargo was up 12.8% in September as well (11.5% YTD)

These are amazing numbers wow, even higher than the August growth! Even being cautiously optimistic with the numbers, this will put YVR well ahead of 2013, and is definitely the growth leader among major Canadian airports!

Hot Rod
Nov 8, 2014, 5:07 AM
19M pax for 2014?

20M+ for 2015?

Johnny Aussie
Nov 8, 2014, 5:57 AM
19M pax for 2014?

20M+ for 2015?

Yup. Even with slower rates through the end of the year... and there really is no indication things are slowing down...

2014 should fall into the 19.3 - 19.5 million range. It would take just under 10% growth over the last quarter to exceed 19.5 million.... highly unlikely.

And 2015 already shaping up to be pretty good across the board with forward capacity projections. 2015 should exceed 20 million.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 9, 2014, 1:41 AM
This could actually help strengthen YVR-China and perhaps help with the launch of YVR-CAN on AC.

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=827

If all the hoop jumping can be done most likely this will be in effect by the end of next year.

SFUVancouver
Nov 9, 2014, 10:04 PM
Chuck Chiang: YVR looks to take its Gateway role to next level

By Chuck Chiang, Vancouver Sun Columnist November 9, 2014 12:57 PM

http://www.vancouversun.com/Business/asia-pacific/cms/binary/10366954.jpg

With Calgary’s airport undergoing a $2-billion expansion clearly aimed at attracting more international service, it would make sense if Vancouver International Airport saw YYC as a primary competitor in commercial aviation.

But that would be an incorrect assumption, according to YVR Airport Authority President and CEO Craig Richmond.

In an annual address to a Vancouver Board of Trade meeting late last month, Richmond outlined bigger plans for YVR — far beyond being Canada’s premier Asia-Pacific Gateway (a role that Calgary would no doubt try to challenge with its terminal and runway expansion).

“Well, (YYC) clearly would love to have what we have. They are spending $2 billion on it,” Richmond said. “We have to make sure we keep our landing fees as low as possible, and work hard to keep the customers’ experience at a high level when they travel through our airport. Because, if (Calgary) can get some traction, they may pull some traffic from us.”

Richmond explained that YVR is after the lucrative connection business between Asia and North American destinations, acting as a gateway between Asia and not only Canada, but also the United States, and potentially beyond.

So he has another airport in mind when he talks about competition.

“I would say the real threat is Seattle, especially with Delta Air Lines making Sea-Tac their Pacific hub.”

Richmond noted the two airports have similar geographic qualifications for servicing Asia-North American routes (and potentially future Asia- South America routes) while Seattle-Tacoma has the advantage of a government-funded financial model.

One of YVR’s top priorities under Richmond is the idea of creating a visa-free connection hub for Asia-South America traffic, a move that would both increase the number of direct-flight destinations for Vancouver travellers and businesses, as well as create a new source of revenue from passengers who otherwise would not have any contact with Canada.

Although the concept remains a fair distance from reality — there are currently no direct flights from YVR to South America — Richmond said a major hurdle will soon be removed. [emphasis added]

[snip]



http://www.vancouversun.com/Business/asia-pacific/Chuck+Chiang+looks+take+Gateway+role+next+level/10366953/story.html

Denscity
Nov 9, 2014, 10:20 PM
Well, YVR has added AF/Paris/Europe and is the North American Asia king adding KIX and more from China. If South America gets added this will mean a third International dimension of expansion!!

casper
Nov 10, 2014, 7:19 AM
http://www.vancouversun.com/Business/asia-pacific/Chuck+Chiang+looks+take+Gateway+role+next+level/10366953/story.html

Interesting.

Hot Rod
Nov 10, 2014, 7:52 AM
big smile!!!

trofirhen
Nov 10, 2014, 7:59 AM
Well, YVR has added AF/Paris/Europe and is the North American Asia king adding KIX and more from China. If South America gets added this will mean a third International dimension of expansion!!

Interesting.

big smile!!!

http://www.vancouversun.com/Business...953/story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/Business/asia-pacific/Chuck+Chiang+looks+take+Gateway+role+next+level/10366953/story.html)
The outstanding question is: will YVR get those South America flights or not.
The first one will (would) probably be to Lima, as that area has many of the mining interests based in Vancouver.
Many people believe that there is insufficient traffic to warrant YVR-South America flights, which is possibly very true.
Also, what if SEA-TAC gets on board and does the same thing? They would have no reason not to.
And DELTA would probably have no compunction in providing flights to South America, traffic warranted.
Finally what about LAN airlines, and TAM? Are they not Skyteam also? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Klazu
Nov 10, 2014, 2:59 PM
LAN is OneWorld.

trofirhen
Nov 10, 2014, 4:14 PM
LAN is OneWorld.
Thank you, and excuse me. :)

If Seattle had the same idea as YVR (and I'm thinking here of Craig Richmond's ambitions for the airport),
I wonder how readily, and how easily DELTA could launch South America flights from Sea-Tac?
If they see Vancouver doing it, isn't it natural that they'll try to muscle in and grab that business traffic, too, if the yield/load factors are there?
Yes, I know many knowledgeable people here think it's too much of a long shot anyway, and maybe it indeed is, but if it DID work .........
YVR would have some real competition, maybe even nipping us in the bud before we were to get going. (All in the subjunctive, for the moment)

moosejaw
Nov 10, 2014, 6:04 PM
LAN is OneWorld.

NOt to toot my own horn.....LAN also has a heavy heavy presence in Miami and the folks at MIA are already three steps of YVR. Mining or not. Latin Americans will like coming to places they feel familiar with. Asians also love gambling. That will also win them over in Miami. If its any airport SEA TAC and YVR have to worry about its MIA. Besides 80% (my guess, not fact)of SEA TACs travel is domestic with Alaskan, Delta and American using it as a hub. I remember running the numbers a whole back but i recall that YVR's international traffic dwarfs SEA. I honestly dont think SEA would be that great of a threat. Like Vancouver, almost half of Miami's air traffic is international.

The only benefit i see is Lima and possibly Santiago. Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, and Rio are all out of the way. (i believe)

Klazu
Nov 10, 2014, 8:18 PM
I would think MIA and YVR/SEA being on the opposite corners of the continent, they would be way too far apart to be competitors in this space. IAH might be a bigger competitor for our corner and MIA is perhaps more competing with the likes of YYZ?

Are there even many direct flights to Asia from MIA? Ain't that Miami starting to be too far for most of the planes to reach from many parts of the Asia?

I know Miami has great South America connections and that is thanks to the city being the Latin America immigration gateway.

trofirhen
Nov 10, 2014, 8:33 PM
Judging from responses such as the ones above, it seems that YVR's upcoming TWOV facility will more probably
than not, turn out to be a 'white elephant.'
As moosejaw pointed out, the only real possibilities from here seem to be Lima and Santiago.
However, as this traffic would presumably be aimed at the Andean mining operations, with several hq's in Vancouver, maybe this is, in fact, realistic, if limited.
Another thing mentioned was that the YVR TWOV facility would also serve, and presumably add to,
destinations in the USA that YVR currently does not have. Miami seems to be a front-runner, if that is the case.

Hot Rod
Nov 11, 2014, 3:06 AM
i dont see SEA as a threat to South America at all, as there is no logistical reason for anybody to start running flights from SEA to SA. Delta is not going to since they are now focusing on LAX anyway and already have the ATL monstrosity with those connections. SEA was a gamble for Delta to capitalize on the former United and Northwest Airline's international network based at SEA; and it has mixed results. And as was noted, SEA is more of a domestic airport with one major hub (Alaska) and a gateway (Delta). SEA is not an alliance fortress and is too far off the grid to be a competitive threat for Asian to SA traffic, IMO.

Now, if Delta was to really make SEA into a true hub; having daily flights into SEA from all major US cities and then funneling them Intl, then I'd see SEA as a threat to Asia. But that isn't going to happen, SLC is the domestic hub and LAX is the International gateway. I wouldn't be surprised to see Delta scale back the SEA experiment just like it did PDX back in the day, and just maintain SEA-NRT and perhaps SEA-PEK or PVG.

casper
Nov 11, 2014, 6:44 AM
An airline like Copa Airlines to Panama city may be a viable option. Not certain if a 737 can make it Vancouver from Panama City without significant penalties. Smaller aircraft that is easier to fill, Star Alliance, onward connections to Brazil.

I have not look at how the schedules line up to more connections at both ends.

trofirhen
Nov 11, 2014, 10:57 AM
A route development person at YVR said we would probably, if anything, get Lima. The airport (ranked as the best in S.A.) is constantly growing, and is the northwest "gateway" to that continent. Sounds logical to me. I cannot see São Paulo, or anything in Brazil or Argentina from YVR.