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moosejaw
Nov 11, 2014, 7:57 PM
A route development person at YVR said we would probably, if anything, get Lima. The airport (ranked as the best in S.A.) is constantly growing, and is the northwest "gateway" to that continent. Sounds logical to me. I cannot see São Paulo, or anything in Brazil or Argentina from YVR.

Neither can I....
Amazing CPAir use to fly to Buenos Aires route (through Lima) when i was a kid

moosejaw
Nov 11, 2014, 8:22 PM
I would think MIA and YVR/SEA being on the opposite corners of the continent, they would be way too far apart to be competitors in this space. IAH might be a bigger competitor for our corner and MIA is perhaps more competing with the likes of YYZ?

Logistically yes, but they are united by a common entitiy....business. Miami has the second largest Brazilian exp at community in the USA. Many Brazilian companies have Hong Kong and Chinese ties. Brazil has a newly created MIDDLE CLASS....they can finance cars and property now. As stated above Miami is aggressively marketing in Asia. They know they have to work to get the business and are courting the chinese airlines. YVR somewhat seems overconfident they will get the transit business due to the fact the city has a significant Chinese population. Miami doesn't even have one DIM SUM restaurant. LOL!

Are there even many direct flights to Asia from MIA? Ain't that Miami starting to be too far for most of the planes to reach from many parts of the Asia? There are none sir. The only closest flight to HK would be from Dallas. With the new ER class 787 they can make it on paper from MIA to HK (barely), but i dont think they have tried a test flight yet.

I know Miami has great South America connections and that is thanks to the city being the Latin America immigration gateway. That is due to the fact MIA being the HQ for Pan AM and also a hub for American Airlines. As mentioned above LAN has a huge presence here and is the largest airline in South America. Out of MIA American Airlines flies direct to 12 brazilian cities. And thats just American Airlines. Most Latins settle here for the same reason Asians settle in Vancouver. Familiarity and Family/Business Connections

Love your pictures of my hometown btw KLAZ ...Keep it up!

SFUVancouver
Nov 11, 2014, 9:40 PM
An airline like Copa Airlines to Panama city may be a viable option. Not certain if a 737 can make it Vancouver from Panama City without significant penalties. Smaller aircraft that is easier to fill, Star Alliance, onward connections to Brazil.


A direct YVR-PTY (Panama City's Tocumen International Airport) flight is 6,021km according to the Great Circle Mapper (http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=yvr-pty%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=km&PATH-MINIMUM=&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=) and that puts it in range of the 737-700 and -700ER variants of the 'Next Generation' (current generation) Boeing 737 fleet. However, you sure aren't moving very many bodies in that configuration: between 130 and 150, approximately.

For that kind of distance I would imagine that an older Boeing 767-200 or -300 or an Airbus A310 or a more modern A330-300 would be the more likely equipment that would be used. With that said, the new 737Max family will all be able to manage 6,000km, including the 737Max-900 that will carry between 180 and 220 passengers, changing entirely the economics of such a route with a small aircraft, not to mention the improved fuel efficiency afforded by better engines and aircraft weight reductions.

For Airbus, the A319-100, LR & CJ versions all have the legs to get you from Vancouver to Panama City and have a capacity similar to the Boeing 737-700 jets. The A320-200 with "sharklet" wing tips could just make it, but I doubt such a flight would be allowed with so little margin for error. The full family of A320Neo jets will have the ability to fly that route with far higher passenger capacity than the A319.

moosejaw
Nov 11, 2014, 11:13 PM
By the way off-topic but i was able to compare 2012 SEA TAC international PAX (3.2m/year) compared to 2012 YVR International PAX (8.5m/year). YVR beats it by a considerably wide margin. I found these stats on both Port of Seattle Website and VAA websites.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 12, 2014, 3:18 AM
By the way off-topic but i was able to compare 2012 SEA TAC international PAX (3.2m/year) compared to 2012 YVR International PAX (8.5m/year). YVR beats it by a considerably wide margin. I found these stats on both Port of Seattle Website and VAA websites.

Funny you mentioned SEA TAC's stats. It reminded me to have a look myself. Some very revealing statistics! I have to say I was very shocked to see that their Asia pax stats are showing what they are showing! Despite all the new Delta flights I actually couldn't believe:

June was down 1.6%
July was down 3.5%
August was down 0.9%
September was up only 1.5%
YTD through Sept up only 2.5%

And in June, July and August Delta's increase was less than United's decrease and UA only had the route to NRT. That should say something. YVR is up 12% YTD through Sept to almost 2.2 million. (SEA at 1.15 million so about half).

Even traffic to Canada is growing faster.

Now Europe growth on the other hand... good growth... but being very strongly led by BA not DL. But YVR still way ahead with over 1,055,000 YTD compared to SEA at 772,000.

*******

And BLI pax traffic is down over 7% for the 12 months ended July 2014. BLI has been on a consistently downward trend for at least the last 10 months or so.

http://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp?pn=1&Airport=BLI&Airport_Name=Bellingham,%20WA:%20Bellingham%20International&carrier=FACTS

Klazu
Nov 12, 2014, 4:22 AM
Love your pictures of my hometown btw KLAZU ...Keep it up!

Thanks! And thank you also for all the background on business in Miami. :) I have yet to visit the South East corner of United States and Florida, so I don't know much about Miami, except that it is a Alpha- city which is very good. Mainly one hears about the tourism side of Florida and not the business side of things, which seems to be strong as well.

Personally I would be very interested to visit the likes of Panama, Ecuador, Peru and Chile, so I am really looking forward to any future flights to that direction. :yes:

moosejaw
Nov 12, 2014, 4:34 AM
Here's an interesting fact. I realized if Seattle didn't have a lot of international travellers than what cities on the west coast did? So naturally I looked up San Francisco

YVR PAX numbers are not far off of SFO PAX numbers
San Francisco numbers for 2013 are only 600k more than Vancouver's at 9.6million

Hot Rod
Nov 12, 2014, 5:54 AM
puts it into prospective, doesn't it?

Denscity
Nov 12, 2014, 6:18 AM
Wow Vancouver is heading for 10M International passengers per year which will be 50% of total passengers!!

trofirhen
Nov 12, 2014, 4:07 PM
Do the International pax numbers also include Transborder, or do they not?

deasine
Nov 12, 2014, 6:53 PM
http://www.vancouversun.com/Business/asia-pacific/Chuck+Chiang+looks+take+Gateway+role+next+level/10366953/story.html

The larger role of WS in YVR may be an interesting development if it occurs. Recent moves suggest that if WS increases capacity, AC will follow suit. Meanwhile, we are also watching the development of a LCC that will may lead to more capacity changes, albeit this will be arguably small relative to WS should they make YVR a hub.

But I like to caution the sustainability of this growth as it may lead to increases in capacity in the immediate term, but in the medium term, there will ultimately be a decrease in capacity from its peak if there is not enough traffic. We see duopolistic rivalry in Australia between QF and VA which lead to huge increases in capacity and frequency especially between SYD, MEL, and PER. But ultimately now, both airlines have dialed back the capacity increases as it has led to unsustainable competition. As an airport authority, while its excellent to receive additional flights, but its also their responsibility to manage and maintain the growth. It will be an upcoming challenge for the airport authority to manage this, especially when there are many many factors beyond the airport authority's control.

ACT7
Nov 12, 2014, 11:21 PM
Yes, they do. It's still an apples to apples comparison though because US airports count transborder as international - as it should be. That can have a HUGE impact on the numbers. For example, YYZ has the second highest international pax count in NA behind JFK if you include transborder. Excluding transborder, it's the fourth highest.

So, with that being said, I think the conversation is invariably about the significance of the airport as a port of entry into North America. In that case, YVR handles about 4.2 MM non-transborder international pax. Compared to YUL, which handles closer to 5.3 MM, YVR fares pretty well. And YVR is still pretty far ahead of SEA with respect to non-transborder international pax.

As far as YVR's ranking as a North American port of entry, by my count it would be about the 13th behind JFK, MIA, LAX, YYZ, ORD, IAH, ATL, SFO, DFW, IAD, EWR, and YUL. A pretty strong showing, in my opinion, considering the metro region is orders of magnitude smaller than all of these areas, with the exception of Montreal (still smaller of course, but only by about 1.5 times).

Johnny Aussie
Nov 13, 2014, 1:12 AM
As far as YVR's ranking as a North American port of entry, by my count it would be about the 13th behind JFK, MIA, LAX, YYZ, ORD, IAH, ATL, SFO, DFW, IAD, EWR, and YUL. A pretty strong showing, in my opinion, considering the metro region is orders of magnitude smaller than all of these areas, with the exception of Montreal (still smaller of course, but only by about 1.5 times).

I guess you would also have to take out Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean stats too to get "true" gateway to North America port of entry numbers. DFW and IAH would see a lot of Mexico for example. I reckon YVR would be a lot closer to YUL if we factored this in.

ACT7
Nov 13, 2014, 4:08 AM
I guess you would also have to take out Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean stats too to get "true" gateway to North America port of entry numbers. DFW and IAH would see a lot of Mexico for example. I reckon YVR would be a lot closer to YUL if we factored this in.
You're probably right about that. I wonder also how much MIA sees from Central America. Tonnes of traffic probably. I guess the line has to be drawn somewhere though.

Along the same lines, it does kind of bug me how European airports measure international traffic with no real borders anymore within the Eurozone. For example, flying from Frankfurt to Paris is, for all intents and purposes, a domestic flight in terms of processing passengers, yet I'm certain it's considered international for passenger count.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 13, 2014, 5:10 AM
You're probably right about that. I wonder also how much MIA sees from Central America. Tonnes of traffic probably. I guess the line has to be drawn somewhere though.

Along the same lines, it does kind of bug me how European airports measure international traffic with no real borders anymore within the Eurozone. For example, flying from Frankfurt to Paris is, for all intents and purposes, a domestic flight in terms of processing passengers, yet I'm certain it's considered international for passenger count.

It's really amazing the difference in levels of stats airports report. Some are very protective and don't give out any. Others just tell it all. I like YVR's breakdown of stats by region and by scheduled or charter. Also YVR gives pretty detailed numbers on movements, South Terminal passenger numbers, float planes and cargo etc... SEA goes further by showing breakdowns by regions and by airlines. Australian government statistics go further breaking down by airline, country and even load factor. I suppose commercially some airlines may not want these numbers made public for obvious reasons.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 13, 2014, 11:55 PM
Air China has just updated its scheds to YVR next summer.

The afternoon daily flight is being upgauged from a 332 to a 773. So a pretty big boost to capacity and first class is maintained on the route. The morning flight will remain a 332.
And as mentioned previously Air Canada maintains its daily 77W to PEK next summer as well.

Sched:

CA997 PEK1200 – 0800YVR 332 x136
CA998 YVR1000 – 1225+1PEK 332 x136

CA991 PEK1550 – 1150YVR 773 D
CA992 YVR1350 – 1615+1PEK 773 D

Denscity
Nov 14, 2014, 1:58 AM
Oh man we are sooo spoiled in Vancouver. YVR has so many flights to Asia. Something like 70 weekly??

Johnny Aussie
Nov 14, 2014, 2:20 AM
Oh man we are sooo spoiled in Vancouver. YVR has so many flights to Asia. Something like 70 weekly??

It's more like about 70 per week to just China. This includes HKG.

Summer scheds are around 70 per week to China with about 60 in the winter.

And it's not just frequency increases and new routes, but also upgauging to bigger and/or newer equipment. This is the case with my post above.

Denscity
Nov 14, 2014, 2:27 AM
Oh wow! And ya I did notice that your post was regarding a larger aircraft on an existing route. Which is also a positive move *thumbs up*.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 14, 2014, 2:33 AM
Oh wow! And ya I did notice that your post was regarding a larger aircraft on an existing route. Which is also a positive move *thumbs up*.

And it's rare for airlines to be adding F class to YVR these days.

excel
Nov 14, 2014, 4:29 AM
Airlines that operate 777s at some point in the year at YVR just off the top of my head for fun.

Air Canada
Air China
Eva Air
Philippine Airlines
Air New Zealand
Cathay Pacific
Korean Air


Missing or incorrect on any?

Johnny Aussie
Nov 14, 2014, 4:55 AM
Airlines that operate 777s at some point in the year at YVR just off the top of my head for fun.

Air Canada
Air China
Eva Air
Philippine Airlines
Air New Zealand
Cathay Pacific
Korean Air


Missing or incorrect on any?

And soon to be Air France too!! :D

craneSpotter
Nov 14, 2014, 5:25 AM
^ JA - Do you know how the AC flight to Mexico City is doing? Don't hear much about it.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 14, 2014, 6:08 AM
^ JA - Do you know how the AC flight to Mexico City is doing? Don't hear much about it.

Same. Don't hear much about it. I think it's doing OK. It seems to be maintaining year-round daily with no seasonal reductions as it had in the past. YVR-MEX is like the quiet kid in the corner... eats his veggies, does his homework, doesn't cause any trouble and just carries on.

excel
Nov 14, 2014, 8:11 AM
And soon to be Air France too!! :D

Oh yeah. Not sure how I forgot that!

Johnny Aussie
Nov 14, 2014, 11:22 AM
I did this for Europe a few weeks ago.

So based on current scheds, the following are the weekly flights to Asia next summer:

HKG 21
PVG 21
PEK 18
ICN 14
NRT 14
TPE 11
MNL 11
HND 7
CAN 7
KIX 5
SHE/CTU 3
TTL 132

And to the South Pacific (we'll wait and see what Qantas does!):

SYD 7
AKL 5

deasine
Nov 14, 2014, 1:29 PM
^ JA - Do you know how the AC flight to Mexico City is doing? Don't hear much about it.

JL had a previous fifth freedom right to MEX didn't they? Perhaps another potential airline to have a flight to South America ;)

trofirhen
Nov 14, 2014, 4:34 PM
JL had a previous fifth freedom right to MEX didn't they? Perhaps another potential airline to have a flight to South America ;)
Someone in YVR marketing / route development told me it would be Lima, if anything. At first, anyway.

Denscity
Nov 14, 2014, 6:47 PM
I did this for Europe a few weeks ago.

So based on current scheds, the following are the weekly flights to Asia next summer:

HKG 21
PVG 21
PEK 18
ICN 14
NRT 14
TPE 11
MNL 11
HND 7
CAN 7
KIX 5
SHE/CTU 3
TTL 132

And to the South Pacific (we'll wait and see what Qantas does!):

SYD 7
AKL 5

Hey Johnny, there must be few cities in the world with this many weekly flights to Asia?? Mumbai, Sydney...

Gordon
Nov 14, 2014, 7:40 PM
Is there now a 4th encore gate (A12) because WestJet still uses Gate B12

normally there would bot be a flex gate between a mainline carrier & a commuter carrier(turbo prop).

Johnny Aussie
Nov 14, 2014, 8:26 PM
Hey Johnny, there must be few cities in the world with this many weekly flights to Asia?? Mumbai, Sydney...

MEL has about 160 flights per week to just SE Asia alone.

Hourglass
Nov 14, 2014, 11:42 PM
Follow-up to earlier comment re SEA numbers -- looks like Delta is still planning further growth there:

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-14/delta-seeks-to-nearly-triple-seattle-gates-in-alaska-challenge.html

Don't know whether this is domestic growth as DL continues to encroach on Alaska Airlines or if further international growth is planned (and for that matter -- where? Maybe more tier-2 cities in China?). Either way, this would be a pretty significant-sized hub.

trofirhen
Nov 15, 2014, 12:18 AM
Follow-up to earlier comment re SEA numbers -- looks like Delta is still planning further growth there:

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-14/delta-seeks-to-nearly-triple-seattle-gates-in-alaska-challenge.html

Don't know whether this is domestic growth as DL continues to encroach on Alaska Airlines or if further international growth is planned (and for that matter -- where? Maybe more tier-2 cities in China?). Either way, this would be a pretty significant-sized hub.
OK. Now. Perhaps people will start realizing that Seattle can and will be a direct competitor "de grand ampleur" for Asian traffic,
and try going after the same if not greater market share as YVR.
This current complacency that Sea-Tac is wobbly and poses no threat to YVR as King of the Asian Market may soon dissolve into what it is: wishful thinking.
YVR needs to get that TWOV facility going: FAST!! Whether that's wishful thinking as well or not, it is essential that we set it all up before Seattle does. {IMO}

Johnny Aussie
Nov 15, 2014, 12:22 AM
:shrug:Follow-up to earlier comment re SEA numbers -- looks like Delta is still planning further growth there:

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-14/delta-seeks-to-nearly-triple-seattle-gates-in-alaska-challenge.html

Don't know whether this is domestic growth as DL continues to encroach on Alaska Airlines or if further international growth is planned (and for that matter -- where? Maybe more tier-2 cities in China?). Either way, this would be a pretty significant-sized hub.

They sure are giving it a go! This would be for both domestic and international I am sure.

I am still really surprised that SEA is showing negative growth to Asia despite all the new capacity. Whereas YVR is clearly absorbing most of its new capacity to Asia and in fact in June and July demand outstripped the new supply. And Air Canada still boosting further with their capacity increases on every route to Asia and new flights to KIX. AC is positioning itself very well in YVR with both the Dreamliners and rouge perfectly moulded to YVR's market. I think AC and YVR are definitely well positioned and up to the challenge of any threats around it. YVR is definitely NOT being complacent and it's good to see YVR and AC taking these challenges seriously. Also Air China showing YVR confidence as well with its latest upgauge. And there should still be more to come :-)

Delta is going to have to try very hard to fill some of those new flights out of SEA... based on the stats produced by SEA TAC many of those new Asian flights would be running far from full. This can and should be expected in slower months, but not in the peak months of June - August. :shrug:

teriyaki
Nov 15, 2014, 12:49 AM
Delta definitely has excess capacity on its transpac routes, as evidenced by the published stats and my own experiences.

Had my last 3 transpac trips route through Seattle on delta, PEK, HKG and Pvg. None of them were even 70 percent in economy.

One of the biggest turn offs for me is the international arrival customs area in Seattle. It's like a throw back to the 80's in there. I know there are plans to upgrade it, but that is many years away. YVR's facilities are a far better experience, but they win on price (at the moment).

Denscity
Nov 15, 2014, 2:11 AM
MEL has about 160 flights per week to just SE Asia alone.

Ya figured at least one of the Australian cities had more Asian flights. Does Mel have more international flights than Syd?

trofirhen
Nov 15, 2014, 2:35 AM
http://www.airmilescalculator.com/distance3/syd-to-lax-jfk/

http://www.airmilescalculator.com/distance3/syd-to-yvr-jfk/

www.airmilescalculator.com/distance/syd-to-jfk/ (http://www.airmilescalculator.com/distance/syd-to-jfk/)

The nonstop Sydney - JFK seems too long range for any current aircraft.

The trip via YVR-JFK is 400 miles longer than via LAX.

Does this extra distance preclude a possible run from YVR or not?

Philippine airlines makes Vancouver work for JFK.

And for interest, to Chicago, via YVR and via LAX:

http://www.airmilescalculator.com/distance3/syd-to-yvr-ord/

http://www.airmilescalculator.com/distance3/syd-to-lax-ord/

http://www.airmilescalculator.com/distance/syd-to-ord/

Could QF do the same? (again, about 400+ miles more via YVR)

Johnny Aussie
Nov 15, 2014, 4:04 AM
Ya figured at least one of the Australian cities had more Asian flights. Does Mel have more international flights than Syd?

SYD is far ahead of MEL in terms of both international flights and international passengers. However, MEL's international passenger count continues to grow at a faster rate than SYD.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 18, 2014, 5:22 AM
From twitter.... “@airlineroute: Canadian Transportation Agency on 14NOV14 approved planned Philippine Airlines - WestJet Codeshare service, due to start on 01JAN15”

Link to CTA ruling ----> https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/413-a-2014-0

Westjet jumps in with yet another Asia Pacific carrier out of YVR.

So you can add Phillippine Airlines to the growing list of: Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, China Eastern, China Southern, JAL, Korean Air and Qantas.

So now Westjet helps feed all non Star Alliance Asia Pacific carriers except Sichuan. On top of that British, KLM and the soon to fly ex YVR Air France. Almost like a pseudo mini hub operation.

casper
Nov 19, 2014, 6:51 AM
From twitter.... “@airlineroute: Canadian Transportation Agency on 14NOV14 approved planned Philippine Airlines - WestJet Codeshare service, due to start on 01JAN15”

Link to CTA ruling ----> https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/413-a-2014-0

Westjet jumps in with yet another Asia Pacific carrier out of YVR.

So you can add Phillippine Airlines to the growing list of: Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, China Eastern, China Southern, JAL, Korean Air and Qantas.

So now Westjet helps feed all non Star Alliance Asia Pacific carriers except Sichuan. On top of that British, KLM and the soon to fly ex YVR Air France. Almost like a pseudo mini hub operation.


Any thoughts what the impact wil be on the Philippines airline service between Vancouver and Toronto where they do not have rights to local traffic?

Johnny Aussie
Nov 19, 2014, 11:16 AM
Any thoughts what the impact wil be on the Philippines airline service between Vancouver and Toronto where they do not have rights to local traffic?

I would think they would codeshare into YYZ as well from YUL, YOW and YHZ etc.

Into YVR I would see the obvious YYC, YEG, YWG, YYJ, YLW among others...

trofirhen
Nov 19, 2014, 8:25 PM
Speaking of Westjet linking up by codeshare with foreign airlines, this fairly recent - {2 months and three weeks}
.....(hope not all of you have seen it) - clip on the YVR connecter, and what all it'll be able to do, might or might not be interesting.
For me, the potential future direct connections with foreign airlines through future swing gates, and the new high-speed baggage system were highlights:

Short, but informative:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPJDln6XY4g

Johnny Aussie
Nov 19, 2014, 8:54 PM
Speaking of Westjet linking up by codeshare with foreign airlines, this fairly recent - {2 months and three weeks}
.....(hope not all of you have seen it) - clip on the YVR connecter, and what all it'll be able to do, might or might not be interesting.
For me, the potential future direct connections with foreign airlines through future swing gates, and the new high-speed baggage system were highlights:

Short, but informative:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPJDln6XY4g

I think it's projects like this that will help keep YVR competitive. Seems like they knew something we didn't (ie Westjet becoming the true "feeder" for all non Star Alliance carriers.) This quick connector will allow faster pax movement between International / Domestic A/B.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 20, 2014, 1:17 AM
About the Dreamliner on Asian routes from YVR.

I was kind of thinking it was another new route announcment... But nothing really new here. But AC getting the message out...

They are ready to play ball against any team out there!

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=832

deasine
Nov 20, 2014, 9:38 AM
Speaking of Westjet linking up by codeshare with foreign airlines, this fairly recent - {2 months and three weeks}
.....(hope not all of you have seen it) - clip on the YVR connecter, and what all it'll be able to do, might or might not be interesting.
For me, the potential future direct connections with foreign airlines through future swing gates, and the new high-speed baggage system were highlights:

Short, but informative:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPJDln6XY4g

I think it's projects like this that will help keep YVR competitive. Seems like they knew something we didn't (ie Westjet becoming the true "feeder" for all non Star Alliance carriers.) This quick connector will allow faster pax movement between International / Domestic A/B.

I brought this up earlier in 2012 during the release of the renderings:

This brings (part of) the domestic terminal to the International Terminal standard. I noticed there's an overhead walkway: could be just a service walkway, but it could also hint that these gates can somehow serve International Arrivals. This would be useful, since there are only three gates at YVR that are dual-purpose International/Domestic gates. So flights coming in from ICN/HKG/NRT/SYD, for instance, going onwards to YYZ can take advantage of these gates. Though this renovation is quite far away from the International Terminal...

I can't seem to find the detailed masterplan document but actually YVR has always considered changing its terminal structure from its current domestic/international/transborder setup to one based on codesharing/alliance, which speaks to the trends of terminal allocation throughout the world now.

It's a goal of YVR to speed up transfers and I'm sure the infrastructure itself to make the airport more attractive for airlines. I don't think YVR "knew" all of WS business goals but at the end of the day, it is in the airport authority's best interest to allow for its customers (the airlines) to expand.

On another perspective, this also allows the airport to increase its resilience. If the airport requires an expansion (which is a sunk cost), it might as well build in flexibility in its operation to allow for multiple uses. With the current airport setup, intl flights cannot use domestic gates despite those being empty due to constraints in its infrastructure. But if swing operations can be allowed, there could be a better use of infrastructure to prevent further (and arguably unnecessary) expansion.

Gordon
Nov 20, 2014, 7:16 PM
Will any of the new gates in the A\B connector capable of handling widebody Jets.

West Jet uses gate B12 as a swing gate for mainline & ENCORE (A12)

Has the cannopy structure that is used for Gates A 8-10 been extended to the gate B12 area?

Cage
Nov 20, 2014, 7:48 PM
Will any of the new gates in the A\B connector capable of handling widebody Jets.

West Jet uses gate B12 as a swing gate for mainline & ENCORE (A12)

Has the cannopy structure that is used for Gates A 8-10 been extended to the gate B12 area?

Technically speaking, any narrowbody gate can be used by widebody aircraft. However the use of widebody aircraft at narrowbody gates will curtail operations at adjacent gates. Additionally, airport facilities might curtailj multiple widebody aircraft from being serviced at I same time. Example was 25 years ago at old YEG terminal had practical facility constraint of one widebody aircraft at time, 2 wide body aircraft resulted in facility constraints at customs, bag claim, checkin, preboard security, hold rooms.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 20, 2014, 10:28 PM
Calvin Rovinescu addressing Vancouver Board of Trade this morning and here some tweets from YVR airport about it....

“@yvrairport: YVR will be the fastest-growing hub in entire @AirCanada network in 2015! #VBOT”

“@yvrairport: In the first 9 months of 2014 @AirCanada has seen an increase of 13% in cargo shipped from YVR. #VBOT @BoardofTrade”

“@yvrairport: "In the first 9 months of 2014, U.S. connecting traffic through YVR is up 25 per cent." - Calin Rovinescu, CEO @AirCanada #vbot”

This one is a bit pie in the sky... But anyway...

“@iainblack_vbot: "@yvrairport has the potential to be one of the great air travel hubs in the world...and we want to be part of that." @AirCanada CEO @ #vbot”

trofirhen
Nov 20, 2014, 10:57 PM
Will any of the new gates in the A\B connector capable of handling widebody Jets.

West Jet uses gate B12 as a swing gate for mainline & ENCORE (A12)

Has the cannopy structure that is used for Gates A 8-10 been extended to the gate B12 area?

Technically speaking, any narrowbody gate can be used by widebody aircraft. However the use of widebody aircraft at narrowbody gates will curtail operations at adjacent gates. Additionally, airport facilities might curtailj multiple widebody aircraft from being serviced at I same time. Example was 25 years ago at old YEG terminal had practical facility constraint of one widebody aircraft at time, 2 wide body aircraft resulted in facility constraints at customs, bag claim, checkin, preboard security, hold rooms.
Just a general question: would not YVR and its engineering and technical divisions be able to work something out? Or is the innovation and expertise for this precision task not there?

Denscity
Nov 21, 2014, 7:11 PM
Calvin Rovinescu addressing Vancouver Board of Trade this morning and here some tweets from YVR airport about it....

“@yvrairport: YVR will be the fastest-growing hub in entire @AirCanada network in 2015! #VBOT”

“@yvrairport: In the first 9 months of 2014 @AirCanada has seen an increase of 13% in cargo shipped from YVR. #VBOT @BoardofTrade”

“@yvrairport: "In the first 9 months of 2014, U.S. connecting traffic through YVR is up 25 per cent." - Calin Rovinescu, CEO @AirCanada #vbot”

This one is a bit pie in the sky... But anyway...

“@iainblack_vbot: "@yvrairport has the potential to be one of the great air travel hubs in the world...and we want to be part of that." @AirCanada CEO @ #vbot”

Wow! Does this mean YVR will be Rouge's western hub or are we talkin' even better - AC's western hub?

trofirhen
Nov 21, 2014, 9:38 PM
Wow! Does this mean YVR will be Rouge's western hub or are we talkin' even better - AC's western hub?
In answer to that - which I cannot give - here is the opinion of a airline writer:
He calls Montreal and Toronto "hubs," while YVR is referred to as a "mini hub."
Hope that chnges, but neverless, it's lucky that YVR has so many foreign airlines flying into it.

http://www.airreview.com/Canada/Routes.htm

or look at this this, and make your own decision:

http://centreforaviation.com/images/stories/2012/aug/21/aircan_route.png
http://centreforaviation.com/images/stories/2012/aug/21/aircan_route.png

Johnny Aussie
Nov 21, 2014, 11:10 PM
In answer to that - which I cannot give - here is the opinion of a airline writer:
He calls Montreal and Toronto "hubs," while YVR is referred to as a "mini hub."

Yeah, an article from an "airline writer" from years ago, who cannot spell Ottawa correctly or calls St. John's "StJohn." Hmmmm. Yup definitely reliable! Very well written... Hmmmm.

Did you actually read his article? Do you actually seek anything that even casts the slightest doubt as to YVR's presence in this world?

In any event the question from Denscity was... is YVR AC's Western hub? The answer is, yes, YVR is one of two Western hubs for AC.

Fact----> AC has a larger operation at YVR than YUL... So I guess you can... Like you say... "Make your own decision ."

Again... Let's not let the facts get in the way of some poorly written article with an uneducated opinion in it.

trofirhen
Nov 21, 2014, 11:10 PM
When already large and extensive United Airlines toook over Continental in 2012, they naturally retained most or all of Continental's destinations. Continental was Houston's main carrier, and Newark was opening a Global Gateway project.

Here's what United added or enhanced when they did that stock swap:
if interested just scroll down to destinations. A good example of what a "smaller" (not belonging to the big three) could do. Interesting airline, Continental.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Airlines_destinations

On a tangent, whereas it would seem most people would instictively prefer New York JFK over Newark, as Newark woukd probably be dirtier, pokier, with
fewer dstinations, first, (if interested) count the number of foreign airlines that fly there. Just about everything. Then add in United (which woukld have been Continental)
Seems like a great airport to me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newark_Liberty_International_Airport

Hourglass
Nov 21, 2014, 11:44 PM
Fact----> AC has a larger operation at YVR than YUL...

AC put out a presser recently stating that by summer '15 stating they would have 2000 flights per week out of YUL. Haven't seen anything comparable for YVR but doubt it's as high as that. But measured by number of seats, i'd guess YVR is bigger than YUL given the proportion of longhaul flights to Asia.

A bit surprised to hear that YVR will be the fastest growing hub in the network since AC is predicting 20% growth for YUL in 2015. Guess it's the new KIX flight plus the switch from 763s to 787s.

Regardless, AC has a major operation at YVR and it's great to see the growth in cargo and US connecting passengers (although the cynic in me notes the distinct lack of data in terms of hard numbers -- could be from a low base).

On a tangent, whereas it would seem most people would instictively prefer New York JFK over Newark, as Newark woukd probably be dirtier, pokier, with
fewer dstinations, first, (if interested) count the number of foreign airlines that fly there. Just about everything. Then add in United (which woukld have been Continental)
Seems like a great airport to me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newark_Liberty_International_Airport

I like Newark better than JFK, which actually doesn't say very much. Remember there is a huge corporate presence in New Jersey, and very few of these people will want to fight traffic up to JFK to catch a flight. On a side note, there were few things more depressing for me than to take the red-eye from SFO to Newark in the middle of winter to catch an early morning meeting in Basking Ridge.

trofirhen
Nov 21, 2014, 11:50 PM
Yeah, an article from an "airline writer" from years ago, who cannot spell Ottawa correctly or calls St. John's "StJohn." Hmmmm. Yup definitely reliable! Very well written... Hmmmm.

Did you actually read his article? Do you actually seek anything that even casts the slightest doubt as to YVR's presence in this world?

In any event the question from Denscity was... is YVR AC's Western hub? The answer is, yes, YVR is one of two Western hubs for AC.

Fact----> AC has a larger operation at YVR than YUL... So I guess you can... Like you say... "Make your own decision ."

Again... Let's not let the facts get in the way of some poorly written article with an uneducated opinion in it.
:duh:dunce: ... of course, Johnnie !! I was perusing the topic, and naîvely stumbled onto that!!! YVR was, not so many decades ago, a largely domestic airport, always with some overseas flights, yes, but an airport which, if travelling to the USA other than California, you had to go everywhere else by changing at Seattle. For nearly all destinations
overseas, (although CP had runs to Tokyo ahd HK a milk tun through Lima, Santiag,to Buenos Aires, you had to change at Toronto, or even moreso Montreal, at that time.
The 1968 terminal was ok, but too small; but the addition of the international terminal
and the A/B Connector underway, the YVR complex is well-integrated,and innovative in design,and, wow! The destinations, number of airlines, and pax expansion
numbers speak for themselves. YVR is radiating!!!
I'm not knocking YVR!!

Johnny Aussie
Nov 21, 2014, 11:56 PM
AC put out a presser recently stating that by summer '15 stating they would have 2000 flights per week out of YUL. Haven't seen anything comparable for YVR but doubt it's as high as that. But measured by number of seats, i'd guess YVR is bigger than YUL given the proportion of longhaul flights to Asia.

A bit surprised to hear that YVR will be the fastest growing hub in the network since AC is predicting 20% growth for YUL in 2015. Guess it's the new KIX flight plus the switch from 763s to 787s.

Regardless, AC has a major operation at YVR and it's great to see the growth in cargo and US connecting passengers (although the cynic in me notes the distinct lack of data in terms of hard numbers -- could be from a very low base. And what about yields?).

Agree with every statement you just made.
When I quoted the twitter quotes I left opinion out the window. I realise his statements, of course, were tailored specifically to his audience. I prefer using numbers and percentages to make statements rather than blanket statements.
However, having said that and for his sake I would hope his statements do have some supporting evidence especially if requested. Although I assume some of it would be highly private. My understanding is there is still more to come for YVR next year so unsure if that has been factored into the "fastest growing" hub statement.

I am all for debate too about the merits of YVR and AC's operation there. I would just hope any counter arguments have some (legible, credible) evidence to support it. Right now, based on all the info, stats, statements etc being presented about YVR, there appears to be a lot of evidence to support it.

In regards to YUL 2000 flights per week (assume that's total operations and not departures) is approx 285 per day whereas YVR is around 320 per day right now and probably increasing next year. So not sure... But yes in any event YVR's AC ops are pretty substantial.

Hourglass
Nov 22, 2014, 12:38 AM
^^

More to come? That's great! Anything (non-confidential) you can share? Maybe a hint about a CAN or MEL flight? ;)

Is it my imagination, or does it seem that relations between YVR and AC seem to be a lot warmer than in recent history? Seems to be a bit of a mutual admiration society going on atm lol

trofirhen
Nov 22, 2014, 12:47 AM
^^

More to come? That's great! Anything (non-confidential) you can share? Maybe a hint about a CAN or MEL flight? ;)

Is it my imagination, or does it seem that relations between YVR and AC seem to be a lot warmer than in recent history? Seems to be a bit of a mutual admiration society going on atm lol
:2cents: someone in YVR marketing told me about Brisbane, supposed to be coming online this year. I'm assuming it's true. AC 787.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 22, 2014, 1:10 AM
^^

More to come? That's great! Anything (non-confidential) you can share? Maybe a hint about a CAN or MEL flight? ;)

Is it my imagination, or does it seem that relations between YVR and AC seem to be a lot warmer than in recent history? Seems to be a bit of a mutual admiration society going on atm lol

There should be a little bit more rouge flying plus more next winter as well but rouge growth should slow down anyway... and there is still some more potential Dreamliner stuff... if not 2015 into 2016.

Of course the obvious publicly stated stuff like CAN, MEL, BNE, DEL etc is still being tossed around. Nothing concrete and I do keep confidentiality just that.

And I actually don't think YVR and AC have really ever had that sour a relationship... well maybe a little bit? There is the perception of some that AC is very YYZ-centric. But to be fair, has this perception ever changed in the last 30 years? As a company they are just doing what would (hopefully) maximise the profits for the shareholders. I still believe an airline will allocate its resources where profitabilty is more likely. Despite what other markets perceive, AC must be doing something right to get the results they are showing. They are certainly giving YVR love right now which gives this perception, but again, I don't think YVR and AC have ever really had that negative relationship?

ACT7
Nov 22, 2014, 1:31 AM
Agree with every statement you just made.
When I quoted the twitter quotes I left opinion out the window. I realise his statements, of course, were tailored specifically to his audience. I prefer using numbers and percentages to make statements rather than blanket statements.
However, having said that and for his sake I would hope his statements do have some supporting evidence especially if requested. Although I assume some of it would be highly private. My understanding is there is still more to come for YVR next year so unsure if that has been factored into the "fastest growing" hub statement.

I am all for debate too about the merits of YVR and AC's operation there. I would just hope any counter arguments have some (legible, credible) evidence to support it. Right now, based on all the info, stats, statements etc being presented about YVR, there appears to be a lot of evidence to support it.

In regards to YUL 2000 flights per week (assume that's total operations and not departures) is approx 285 per day whereas YVR is around 320 per day right now and probably increasing next year. So not sure... But yes in any event YVR's AC ops are pretty substantial.
It's worth mentioning here (and I'm not knocking YVR either - just being realistic) that on a global level it's a bit of a stretch to call YVR an AC hub. Mainline AC operates 8 year-round and 3 seasonal international destinations out of YVR. Rouge operates 2 mainline and 2 seasonal international destinations (I'm including confirmed future routes as well). As for the US, mainline AC/AC Express operates 3 year-round destinations and Rouge operates 3. Seasonal US is all Rouge and there are 3 destinations. If you look at domestic AC/AC Express ops out of YVR there are 24 destinations, most of which are Express to BC routes. So if you total this up, AC mainline and Rouge year-round and seasonal operate 15 international destinations out of YVR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_International_Airport

While it may be nice and fluffy for AC to pander to the BOT audience that they were speaking to, when you look at true hubs globally, it's difficult to place YVR in that category. I don't dispute that YVR is either a mini-hub as was pointed out or a strong focus city for AC, or that growth is strong (it is indeed) but percentage growth needs context, and everyone knows what the context is.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 22, 2014, 3:30 AM
It's worth mentioning here (and I'm not knocking YVR either - just being realistic) that on a global level it's a bit of a stretch to call YVR an AC hub. Mainline AC operates 8 year-round and 3 seasonal international destinations out of YVR. Rouge operates 2 mainline and 2 seasonal international destinations (I'm including confirmed future routes as well). As for the US, mainline AC/AC Express operates 3 year-round destinations and Rouge operates 3. Seasonal US is all Rouge and there are 3 destinations. If you look at domestic AC/AC Express ops out of YVR there are 24 destinations, most of which are Express to BC routes. So if you total this up, AC mainline and Rouge year-round and seasonal operate 15 international destinations out of YVR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_International_Airport

While it may be nice and fluffy for AC to pander to the BOT audience that they were speaking to, when you look at true hubs globally, it's difficult to place YVR in that category. I don't dispute that YVR is either a mini-hub as was pointed out or a strong focus city for AC, or that growth is strong (it is indeed) but percentage growth needs context, and everyone knows what the context is.

And agreed as well. Am always wary of particular speeches to particular audiences... Tell 'em what they want to hear!
YVR is by no means any sort of global hub. But being the second biggest operational base for AC and AC labels it as such. Hard to gauge hubs by any particular measure. Interestingly DL labels SEA a "key" hub now and not even 100 daily departures yet... Even by next summer probably around the 120 mark with a significant amount of RJ ops still. Compared to other DL hubs.... That is a pittance. So I suppose YVR is much more important to AC than SEA is to DL.
Vancouver continues to be a very well served city as does SEA.

Flying to SIN again tomorrow on SQ... now there's a global hub of the best airline and the best airport in the world! And only keeps on getting better! :-)

trofirhen
Nov 22, 2014, 4:20 AM
It's worth mentioning here (and I'm not knocking YVR either - just being realistic) that on a global level it's a bit of a stretch to call YVR an AC hub. Mainline AC operates 8 year-round and 3 seasonal international destinations out of YVR. Rouge operates 2 mainline and 2 seasonal international destinations (I'm including confirmed future routes as well). As for the US, mainline AC/AC Express operates 3 year-round destinations and Rouge operates 3. Seasonal US is all Rouge and there are 3 destinations. If you look at domestic AC/AC Express ops out of YVR there are 24 destinations, most of which are Express to BC routes. So if you total this up, AC mainline and Rouge year-round and seasonal operate 15 international destinations out of YVR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_International_Airport

While it may be nice and fluffy for AC to pander to the BOT audience that they were speaking to, when you look at true hubs globally, it's difficult to place YVR in that category. I don't dispute that YVR is either a mini-hub as was pointed out or a strong focus city for AC, or that growth is strong (it is indeed) but percentage growth needs context, and everyone knows what the context is.
I agree with what you say, and that when it comes right down to it, Vancouver is an important focus city for AC (and for WJ too, it would seem)
However, this has led to what Calin Rovinescu warned against - YVR being
a "stub" airport with major airlines poking a route into the the city, if a strong central AC Vancouver hub is not developed. Yet.
(The ominous bang of a distant drum sounded ....)

Yet only KLM serves Amserdam, only Air New Zealand flies 777s five times a week to AKL, and only China Southern serves CAN, with ANA doing KIX and Haneda, not to mention AF starting Paris next season (and to continue year round if the demand is there)
Further, when you total it up, Though YVR funnels foreign passengers from Asia similarly to how YYZ funnels in European traffic, AC simply has not put the energy, for example, into developing a fuller coverage of major routes to US cities, as it has from YYZ>
> To SEA-TAC, PDX, SFO, LAX, SAN, DEN, PHX, DFW, IAH, MPS, ORD, MCI, and all the main East Coast cities from north to south, of course.

From Vancouver, (perhaps due to low load, low yield) most major US airports east of the Rockies, with several but few exceptions, are served by
Delta, United, American, US Air, Alaska.......

.... again, the spoke airport that Rovinescu warned against. And this is the man who says YVR must have a strong AC hub.

While it is true that YYZ is the great gateway to Canada, taking into consideration to upcoming TWOV at YVR, and Asian traffic being redirected through North America,
would it not be seemly (if the pax and yields are, or will be there) for AC to start offering flights to from YVR to Denver, Dallas, Houston, Minneapolis, Chicago, Atlanta, maybe even adding Orlando or Miami to the list?
Or is the demand and yield just not there?

Air Canada seems not to think so.

ACT7
Nov 22, 2014, 5:56 AM
I agree with what you say, and that when it comes right down to it, Vancouver is an important focus city for AC (and for WJ too, it would seem)
However, this has led to what Calin Rovinescu warned against - YVR being
a "stub" airport with major airlines poking a route into the the city, if a strong central AC Vancouver hub is not developed. Yet.
(The ominous bang of a distant drum sounded ....)

Yet only KLM serves Amserdam, only Air New Zealand flies 777s five times a week to AKL, and only China Southern serves CAN, with ANA doing KIX and Haneda, not to mention AF starting Paris next season (and to continue year round if the demand is there)
Further, when you total it up, Though YVR funnels foreign passengers from Asia similarly to how YYZ funnels in European traffic, AC simply has not put the energy, for example, into developing a fuller coverage of major routes to US cities, as it has from YYZ>
> To SEA-TAC, PDX, SFO, LAX, SAN, DEN, PHX, DFW, IAH, MPS, ORD, MCI, and all the main East Coast cities from north to south, of course.

From Vancouver, (perhaps due to low load, low yield) most major US airports east of the Rockies, with several but few exceptions, are served by
Delta, United, American, US Air, Alaska.......

.... again, the spoke airport that Rovinescu warned against. And this is the man who says YVR must have a strong AC hub.

While it is true that YYZ is the great gateway to Canada, taking into consideration to upcoming TWOV at YVR, and Asian traffic being redirected through North America,
would it not be seemly (if the pax and yields are, or will be there) for AC to start offering flights to from YVR to Denver, Dallas, Houston, Minneapolis, Chicago, Atlanta, maybe even adding Orlando or Miami to the list?
Or is the demand and yield just not there?

Air Canada seems not to think so.
YYZ is a strong J market given all the business traffic between Toronto and other cities. But even that aside, AC has to focus on where the numbers are, and the reality is that YYZ is within an couple hour's flight of about 100 million people. So the strategy of routing connecting US pax through YYZ will always be more of a focus than funneling passengers, even to Asia, through YVR.

Unfortunately I don't see AC attempting to funnel passengers from the US to YVR in the same way they do to YYZ.

Also, I'm in agreement with Johnny Aussie that DL calling SEA a hub is a stretch as well. Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I think airline execs have a tendency to label certain cities as hubs to continue receiving preferable treatment by the airport authority. It's just a constant dangling carrot of sorts. Remember, AC calls YYC a hub as well...

Johnny Aussie
Nov 22, 2014, 6:08 AM
YYZ is a strong J market given all the business traffic between Toronto and other cities. But even that aside, AC has to focus on where the numbers are, and the reality is that YYZ is within an couple hour's flight of about 100 million people. So the strategy of routing connecting US pax through YYZ will always be more of a focus than funneling passengers, even to Asia, through YVR.

Unfortunately I don't see AC attempting to funnel passengers from the US to YVR in the same way they do to YYZ.

Also, I'm in agreement with Johnny Aussie that DL calling SEA a hub is a stretch as well. Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I think airline execs have a tendency to label certain cities as hubs to continue receiving preferable treatment by the airport authority. It's just a constant dangling carrot of sorts. Remember, AC calls YYC a hub as well...

Yup.. Again agreed.

YVR is a relatively small market, lower yielding etc. YYZ is the financial centre of Canada with a huge high yielding market at its doorstep. YVR definitely punches well above its weight for its size and to a point it does have a pretty decent location geographically. And I'll say it again... VERY well served for a city it's size and location. It's growing fast, new routes and additional capacity being added all the time by AC and many others....

I don't understand the persistent questioning of why YVR isn't more of a "hub", "focus city" or whatever you want to call it.

casper
Nov 22, 2014, 6:25 AM
Yup.. Again agreed.

YVR is a relatively small market, lower yielding etc. YYZ is the financial centre of Canada with a huge high yielding market at its doorstep. YVR definitely punches well above its weight for its size and to a point it does have a pretty decent location geographically. And I'll say it again... VERY well served for a city it's size and location. It's growing fast, new routes and additional capacity being added all the time by AC and many others....

I don't understand the persistent questioning of YVR isn't more of a "hub", "focus city" or whatever you want to call it.

I don't either. As far as Air Canada appears to be concerned it is.

What is a reasonable catchment area around Vancouver (BC, Alberta, Washington State, Oregon, California).

What is a reasonable catchment area around Toronto (Ontario, Quebec, New York State and most of the Eastern US). Just as I would not expect much California traffic to head to Asia via Toronto. I would not expect much Chicago traffic to head to Europe via Vancouver.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 25, 2014, 12:43 AM
According to Bloomberg it is.... In any event great PR for YVR.

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/laguardia-airport-offers-travelers-frustrating-skies-P2SMELgqTA~lC4JyO8D0LA.html

Another version and a bit longer.

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/where-are-the-most-frustrating-airports-in-north-america-IT76AvuySNSFebCqR7u3qQ.html

Hourglass
Nov 25, 2014, 1:07 AM
According to Bloomberg it is.... In any event great PR for YVR.

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/laguardia-airport-offers-travelers-frustrating-skies-P2SMELgqTA~lC4JyO8D0LA.html

Another version and a bit longer.

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/where-are-the-most-frustrating-airports-in-north-america-IT76AvuySNSFebCqR7u3qQ.html

Least frustrating airport in NA? Umm... Pretty low bar here, Johnny, lol.

Joking aside, the waiting time at immigration during peak times at YVR is an issue. I know, not controlled by the airport authority, but still... On the other hand, the set-up at security to scan boarding passes is under their control, and it's daft. One person scanning boarding passes at two adjacent lines? Better to go with the HKG model where boarding passes are scanned at the entrance to security.

Otherwise, yes, YVR would get my vote in this category...

Johnny Aussie
Nov 25, 2014, 1:37 AM
Least frustrating airport in NA? Umm... Pretty low bar here, Johnny, lol.

Joking aside, the waiting time at immigration during peak times at YVR is an issue. I know, not controlled by the airport authority, but still... On the other hand, the set-up at security to scan boarding passes is under their control, and it's daft. One person scanning boarding passes at two adjacent lines? Better to go with the HKG model where boarding passes are scanned at the entrance to security.

Otherwise, yes, YVR would get my vote in this category...

Hence my proviso... "According to Bloomberg". And yup... If we are going to compare worldwide... different ball game entirely.
It's like saying AC is the best airline in NA :runaway:

In any event great PR for YVR. And it is usually a very good experience on my frequent visits... save for the early morning transborder experiences.

Flew in to SIN T3 on Sunday evening... Quite the hike this time even with the moving walkways...but breezed through immigration as always... bags already on the belt... That's the norm at Singapore. Best airport and airline (SQ) in the world in my opinion.

teriyaki
Nov 25, 2014, 1:59 AM
Hence my proviso... "According to Bloomberg". And yup... If we are going to compare worldwide... different ball game entirely.
It's like saying AC is the best airline in NA :runaway:

In any event great PR for YVR. And it is usually a very good experience on my frequent visits... save for the early morning transborder experiences.

Flew in to SIN T3 on Sunday evening... Quite the hike this time even with the moving walkways...but breezed through immigration as always... bags already on the belt... That's the norm at Singapore. Best airport and airline (SQ) in the world in my opinion.

I've had my own set of snafu's at SIN upon deplaning and hitting a massive immigration queue thats only been beaten by yes.. the early morning transborder rush at YVR.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 25, 2014, 2:10 AM
I've had my own set of snafu's at SIN upon deplaning and hitting a massive immigration queue thats only been beaten by yes.. the early morning transborder rush at YVR.

Ha ha!! Yes have had the very rare snafu at SIN. But the "norm" at least 80 percent (on my 50+ arrivals there) of the time no wait whatsoever. T1 and T2 generally not as efficient than T3. My worst wait was probably 30 mins.

Hourglass
Nov 25, 2014, 2:41 AM
Hence my proviso... "According to Bloomberg". And yup... If we are going to compare worldwide... different ball game entirely.
It's like saying AC is the best airline in NA :runaway:

In any event great PR for YVR. And it is usually a very good experience on my frequent visits... save for the early morning transborder experiences.

Flew in to SIN T3 on Sunday evening... Quite the hike this time even with the moving walkways...but breezed through immigration as always... bags already on the belt... That's the norm at Singapore. Best airport and airline (SQ) in the world in my opinion.

Prefer HKG myself, but I guess it comes down to personal preference. I must say SIN T3 is really nice... I'd add ICN to my list of favorites except my last trip it took me 2 hours to clear immigration.

When one looks at the Skytrax and other awards, YVR is in some pretty august company!

Johnny Aussie
Nov 25, 2014, 8:07 AM
The good news machine just keeps on rolling....

Per airlineroute.net http://airlineroute.net/2014/11/25/af-yvr-w15/

YVR-CDG will become a scheduled year-round route.

AF has just loaded its intention to extend YVR-CDG to year-round service with three weekly flights during the winter season after the first summer of 5 weekly flights conclude.

Flights will operate Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays on 772s.

trofirhen
Nov 25, 2014, 3:31 PM
Faaaantastic !!! And it all happened so fast !! Four major European destinations, now. We're smokin' !!!!!! :cheers:

Coldrsx
Nov 25, 2014, 3:50 PM
Least frustrating airport in NA? Umm... Pretty low bar here, Johnny, lol.

Joking aside, the waiting time at immigration during peak times at YVR is an issue. I know, not controlled by the airport authority, but still... On the other hand, the set-up at security to scan boarding passes is under their control, and it's daft. One person scanning boarding passes at two adjacent lines? Better to go with the HKG model where boarding passes are scanned at the entrance to security.

Otherwise, yes, YVR would get my vote in this category...

YVR is one of the most pleasant to go through indeed, EXCEPT for domestic security. Truly one of the worst setups I have been through.

cyeg66
Nov 25, 2014, 3:59 PM
The good news machine just keeps on rolling....

Per airlineroute.net http://airlineroute.net/2014/11/25/af-yvr-w15/

YVR-CDG will become a scheduled year-round route.

AF has just loaded its intention to extend YVR-CDG to year-round service with three weekly flights during the winter season after the first summer of 5 weekly flights conclude.

Flights will operate Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays on 772s.

Nice! Finally, scheduled service from France to western Canada year round. Long overdue in my opinion. :tup: Interested in seeing how the route performs.

s211
Nov 25, 2014, 4:34 PM
YVR is one of the most pleasant to go through indeed, EXCEPT for domestic security. Truly one of the worst setups I have been through.

In the A "westjet" wing, absolutely.

vanlaw
Nov 25, 2014, 4:40 PM
YVR really is a great airport to travel through. I've never had much issue with security whether it be transborder (can be a little slow at times, but nothing compared to domestic security at US airports), international or domestic (C gates).

My only gripe is the baggage handling/wait times. It is really unacceptable. I’ve landed many times on a domestic flight after midnight, the airport is dead and it can 25-40 min to get my bags. I just don't understand this. International is bad too. I came in from Frankfurt last week, it wasn't very busy for mid-day and it took 55 min for my bag to come, after I got to the belt (i.e already walked from the plane and cleared immigration). I realize it was just bad luck and my bag was near the end, but how can it take over an hour to clear a plane?

craneSpotter
Nov 25, 2014, 6:00 PM
YVR really is a great airport to travel through. I've never had much issue with security whether it be transborder (can be a little slow at times, but nothing compared to domestic security at US airports), international or domestic (C gates).

My only gripe is the baggage handling/wait times. It is really unacceptable. I’ve landed many times on a domestic flight after midnight, the airport is dead and it can 25-40 min to get my bags. I just don't understand this. International is bad too. I came in from Frankfurt last week, it wasn't very busy for mid-day and it took 55 min for my bag to come, after I got to the belt (i.e already walked from the plane and cleared immigration). I realize it was just bad luck and my bag was near the end, but how can it take over an hour to clear a plane?

Yes it is. I use C gates and can't complain.

Hopefully when the new high-speed baggage system (upgrade) is finished the wait times should improve.

Denscity
Nov 25, 2014, 6:13 PM
:slob:The good news machine just keeps on rolling....

Per airlineroute.net http://airlineroute.net/2014/11/25/af-yvr-w15/

YVR-CDG will become a scheduled year-round route.

AF has just loaded its intention to extend YVR-CDG to year-round service with three weekly flights during the winter season after the first summer of 5 weekly flights conclude.

Flights will operate Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays on 772s.

I know I sound like a broken record but YVR is kicking ass right now!! :cheers: And there's already promise from AC to boost its services at YVR in 2015. And lets add in the inevitable Chinese/Asian additions. And even maybe South America! :slob:

Gordon
Nov 25, 2014, 6:32 PM
YVR is a hub for Air Canada , they generate around 40% of the airport's traffic

Generally i find it quite efficient getting luggage although it took 45 mins to get my luggage returning from the us yesterday . there was a couple of Us flights & AC 's HK flight as well

Johnny Aussie
Nov 25, 2014, 9:00 PM
AA has just overhauled their summer 2015 scheds.

AA have just added the third daily flights to both DFW and PHX.

PHX's 3rd daily seems to be kicking in a bit earlier next year. So right now showing 1 daily each of 320 (0815), CR9 (1110) and 319 (1429) same capacity and similar departure times as last summer.

DFW's sched has flights departing at 0600, 0800 and 1300. Usually the 3rd daily was in between the morning and afternoon flights but next summer the additional flight seems to be the early morning 0600 flight. All 738s as per normal.

AA is also adjusting its 2 daily LAX departures next summer from early afternoon / later afternoon departures to early morning / noon departures. This means the feed to QF will most likely transfer to Westjet as AS will no longer be flying any flights arriving into LAX in the early evening and AA's noon flight gets in way too early for any decent connex.... or perhaps QF will just be flying YVR-SYD more often :hmmm:

It does appear AS is dropping LAX to just one daily permanently from 4 daily last summer. That's a huge drop in seats on AS obviously. But with AC going to 5 daily (including a daily 763) and the new 2 daily flights on both DL and AA, YVR-LAX capacity will still be higher than last summer.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 26, 2014, 3:23 AM
Korean Air has just adjusted its summer 2015 schedules to a daily 744 same as last year. Last week the scheds were still showing 5 weekly 772s only.

British Airways has adjusted its YVR schedules too for summer 2015. Same as last summer 12 weekly 744s. But BA86, the earlier departure, continues to be 5 weekly. Flights will operate except Tuesdays and Wednesdays next summer instead of except Tuesdays and Fridays last summer. BA84 remains daily.

As mentioned earlier Air Transat is increasing YVR-LGW to 6 weekly next summer. Flights will operate daily except Thursdays and Saturdays with 2 flights on Fridays. On the return LGW-YVR route flights will operate daily except Tuesdays. With TS dropping FRA from both YVR and YYC, but increasing AMS to 3 weekly and LGW to 6 weekly, TS will still have 15 weekly flights from YVR next summer down from 16 last summer.

Hot Rod
Nov 26, 2014, 4:16 AM
so, nice 747-400 action coming for 2015. Kewl!

Johnny Aussie
Nov 26, 2014, 4:26 AM
so, nice 747-400 action coming for 2015. Kewl!

Yup... Get 'em while u can... Being phased out rapidly.

So with any luck next summer you'll see LH, BA, CX (freighters), KE (pax and freighters), BR and QF (maybe !?) 744s/748s.

red-paladin
Nov 26, 2014, 8:46 AM
Are we ever likely to see A380s?

Johnny Aussie
Nov 26, 2014, 9:37 AM
Are we ever likely to see A380s?

On a regular basis? Very unlikely for a long time. Most airlines configure them too premium heavy for YVR.

Sporadically? Maybe!

trofirhen
Nov 26, 2014, 3:03 PM
Yup... Get 'em while u can... Being phased out rapidly.

So with any luck next summer you'll see LH, BA, CX (freighters), KE (pax and freighters), BR and QF (maybe !?) 744s/748s.
What will replace them (in the majority of instances)?

Klazu
Nov 26, 2014, 3:27 PM
Is any of those 747's being the new 747-8 variant? At least the ones that BA is flying to YVR must be among the oldest they have in their fleet. :(

SFUVancouver
Nov 26, 2014, 5:49 PM
I've got a few work trips coming up in December and I was practically giddy when I found out that I'll get to fly on an A380 from LAX-SYD! I believe there is additional frequency for Qantas' YVR-SYD route beginning in January and I may just be able to utilize that for a future trip. The other long distance flights are on B773ER and B744 equipment. Throw in a whole mess of 737s and a Dash 8 for good measure, too. All together, I'm be putting 78,800 km under my belt over the course of three weeks.

Canadian74
Nov 26, 2014, 7:57 PM
What will replace them (in the majority of instances)?

77Ws, A350s, A380s depending on the airline.
YVR will see a lot of 777s, 787s and A350s in the future

LeftCoaster
Nov 26, 2014, 10:29 PM
I've got a few work trips coming up in December and I was practically giddy when I found out that I'll get to fly on an A380 from LAX-SYD!

Enjoy it! I got to fly an Emirates A380 just last week from Dubai to London and it was fantastic. Second time I've flown the 380 and I was still like a kid in a candy store. The emirates planes even have exterior cameras which you can view through the in flight entertainment system, made landing in Dubai at night really entertaining.

The downside to the trip is I then had to fly British Airways to YVR, what a letdown after Emirates.

Gordon
Nov 26, 2014, 11:24 PM
are there any updates on Canadian Jetlines?

When does the next phase of Pier A\b open?

LeftCoaster
Nov 26, 2014, 11:36 PM
Regarding Canada Jetlines, this story is from a couple of hours ago hours ago, so pretty up to date:

Inovent, Canada Jetlines Seek C$50 Million Airline IPO
By Doug Alexander Nov 26, 2014 12:36 PM PT

Inovent Capital Inc. (IVQ/P) and Canada Jetlines Ltd. filed documents with regulators to raise C$50 million ($44.5 million) in an initial public offering to fund a new airline.

Jetlines and Inovent are merging and plan to start an “ultra-low cost” domestic airline out of Vancouver International Airport next year, the companies said today in a statement. The airline plans routes that avoid direct competition with current airlines.

“We’re very excited about, hopefully in the second quarter of 2015, bringing affordable airfares to Canadians,” Canada Jetlines president David Solloway said today in a telephone interview.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-26/inovent-canada-jetlines-seek-c-50-million-airline-ipo.html

Johnny Aussie
Nov 27, 2014, 12:25 AM
Regarding Canada Jetlines, this story is from a couple of hours ago hours ago, so pretty up to date:


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-26/inovent-canada-jetlines-seek-c-50-million-airline-ipo.html

Prompted me to look at their website again. Jetlines.ca

The plane looks better now... although I thought they were going with Airbus?

Best quote ---> "The airline plans routes that avoid direct competition with current airlines." It also says further down the landing page, "From its base at Vancouver International Airport...." Knowing that they also stated their first routes are to be in Western Canada, what routes does that leave? Unless their business plan has changed. I am not sure how that's going to work.

Denscity
Nov 27, 2014, 6:21 AM
Prompted me to look at their website again. Jetlines.ca

The plane looks better now... although I thought they were going with Airbus?

Best quote ---> "The airline plans routes that avoid direct competition with current airlines." It also says further down the landing page, "From its base at Vancouver International Airport...." Knowing that they also stated their first routes are to be in Western Canada, what routes does that leave? Unless their business plan has changed. I am not sure how that's going to work.

YCG could use a second airline :cool:. We're talking with WestJet Encore btw.

excel
Nov 27, 2014, 8:52 AM
Prompted me to look at their website again. Jetlines.ca

The plane looks better now... although I thought they were going with Airbus?

Best quote ---> "The airline plans routes that avoid direct competition with current airlines." It also says further down the landing page, "From its base at Vancouver International Airport...." Knowing that they also stated their first routes are to be in Western Canada, what routes does that leave? Unless their business plan has changed. I am not sure how that's going to work.

Ya I was under the impression they were going with a319/a320 as well but their web page clearly depicts a 737. Hopefully they have changed to Boeing.

Hourglass
Nov 27, 2014, 2:17 PM
Johnny earlier mentioned the speech that Calin Rovinescu, CEO of Air Canada, made at the Vancouver Board of Trade. Here's the transcript.

http://centreforaviation.com/files/analysis/198446/yvr_boardoftrade.pdf

While obviously crafted for the home crowd, it's interesting reading nevertheless.

YYCguys
Nov 27, 2014, 2:36 PM
YCG could use a second airline :cool:. We're talking with WestJet Encore btw.

What's WS's feelings wrt servicing Castlegar? I had thought similar markets like Cranbrook, Lethbridge, Medicine Hat, and Red Deer would have been of interest to WS but I get the impression that's not the case.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 27, 2014, 3:01 PM
What's WS's feelings wrt servicing Castlegar? I had thought similar markets like Cranbrook, Lethbridge, Medicine Hat, and Red Deer would have been of interest to WS but I get the impression that's not the case.

You can bet as soon as Encore was announced as a new carrier, every single market in Western Canada with a runway long enough to handle a Q400 would have been looked at, and they still would be assessing each and every one.

With Canada Jetlines, now you have to factor in a jet capable of landing/taking off on a runway long enough and a market able to fill a 140 seat plane that "isn't going to compete with any current carrier." Good luck!

Johnny Aussie
Nov 27, 2014, 3:02 PM
Johnny earlier mentioned the speech that Calin Rovinescu, CEO of Air Canada, made at the Vancouver Board of Trade. Here's the transcript.

http://centreforaviation.com/files/analysis/198446/yvr_boardoftrade.pdf

While obviously crafted for the home crowd, it's interesting reading nevertheless.

Wow the opening is almost verbatim from his 2013 speech. Yup interesting reading.