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Johnny Aussie
Jan 27, 2015, 3:45 AM
^hmm, you're right! They should be a shoe-in for at least one more.

I'm thinking with the dollar vrs. the greenback we should see strong numbers for YVR-LA area due to an increase in filming activity. However, quick flight price checks show that it is still often much cheaper to fly to places like Vegas out of BLI for the price sensitive.

Since you mentioned BLI... I had a look at their stats.

Down almost 10% in 2014 compared to 2013.

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2015/01/13/4075986_bellingham-airport-traffic-drops.html?rh=1

excel
Jan 27, 2015, 5:44 AM
How much cheaper really is it now considering the exchange rate, gas and parking money all included? Not to mention the hassle.

Hot Rod
Jan 27, 2015, 6:43 AM
from SSC (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=120876875#post120876875)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/106571287/Screenshot%202015-01-23%2021.57.09.png

Interesting rumor of Kunming-Vancouver via Hangzhou on China East. This, in addition to the already rumored (but not listed here) Xiamen-Vancouver flight on Xiamen Airlines.

In addition to the numerous flights we have to the big 3 + 1 China cities on the Chinese majors and AC, we already have Chengdu-Vancouver via Shenyang on Sichuan Airlines. We need to get Chongqing-Vancouver into the mix (perhaps via Nanjing), and perhaps Urumqi-Vancouver via Tianjin or Harbin; then YVR would have command of the Chinese International market.

trofirhen
Jan 27, 2015, 6:51 PM
from SSC (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=120876875#post120876875)


Interesting rumor of Kunming-Vancouver via Hangzhou on China East. This, in addition to the already rumored (but not listed here) Xiamen-Vancouver flight on Xiamen Airlines.

In addition to the numerous flights we have to the big 3 + 1 China cities on the Chinese majors and AC, we already have Chengdu-Vancouver via Shenyang on Sichuan Airlines. We need to get Chongqing-Vancouver into the mix (perhaps via Nanjing), and perhaps Urumqi-Vancouver via Tianjin or Harbin; then YVR would have command of the Chinese International market.


All this is unbelievably good news, but remember, if they're thinging of possibly routing anything into São Paulo through YVR, Emirates already has deep inroads into the China -
GRU route. Why?
It's geographically shorter, even with a stop at DXB. HK, Shanghai, Beijing,
are in fact closer to GRU on EK, as well as several other major EK destinations in S.A.: São Paulo, Buenos Aires, Rio de Janeiro.

Tokyo and Seoul, further west, remain closer via the Pacific

Klazu
Jan 27, 2015, 8:02 PM
Vancitybuzz: CF-18 fighter jets land at YVR Airport (http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/01/cf-18-fighter-jets-land-yvr-airport-photos/)

craneSpotter
Jan 27, 2015, 9:10 PM
How much cheaper really is it now considering the exchange rate, gas and parking money all included? Not to mention the hassle.

Well first off, I'm not surprised BLI is down due to Hawaii being cancelled and fares from YVR now more competitive due to exchange rates, especially to California. I would expect BLI traffic to drop even more this year as some of the Canadians using it in the past find YVR cheaper now. It is currently (checking Feb 2015 - Delta) cheaper to fly non-stop from YVR to LAX, after exchange rate is applied, than to fly from BLI.

However for the very price sensitive, it can still be cheaper to fly to places like Vegas from BLI (over YVR). You can get flights that are more than $100CAD less return with great flight times - so if you are buying 4 tickets maybe worth it. I also believe parking is cheaper at BLI too: YVR is $20CAD/day in the economy lot and BLI is 6.25 to 10CAD/day - of course gas is currently going for as little as $0.59CAD/litre in Bellingham. The border crossing should be getting a bit quieter too, with a drop in x-border shopping. So for families in areas of the LM close to the border who are driving, it is probably just as convenient to go to BLI over YVR - BLI is a much smaller airport so in/out is quicker and if you save $100+ a ticket on top of that... with parking at half price or less...

LeftCoaster
Jan 27, 2015, 11:18 PM
With a lot of 2014 stats firming up I thought I'd take a look at top intl airports in North America (excluding Central America). Looks like YVR's good year bumped them into the top 10. Of note YVR is the fastest growing international airport in North America (on a percentage basis). All in all looks like a lot to celebrate.

http://i.imgur.com/wr4jRSv.jpg
http://imgur.com/wr4jRSv

I'd love to look at international only, but unfortunately US airports don't break it out that way, it's all just intl., so this will have to do, even though it skews Canadian airports higher.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 28, 2015, 12:16 AM
All this is unbelievably good news, but remember, if they're thinging of possibly routing anything into São Paulo through YVR, Emirates already has deep inroads into the China -
GRU route. Why?
It's geographically shorter, even with a stop at DXB. HK, Shanghai, Beijing,
are in fact closer to GRU on EK, as well as several other major EK destinations in S.A.: São Paulo, Buenos Aires, Rio de Janeiro.

Tokyo and Seoul, further west, remain closer via the Pacific

And thank you for constantly reminding us of that little tidbit for the 23rd time :)

I'd almost forgotten that one route was closer to route via somewhere else!

YVR is doomed!

Johnny Aussie
Jan 28, 2015, 12:21 AM
With a lot of 2014 stats firming up I thought I'd take a look at top intl airports in North America (excluding Central America). Looks like YVR's good year bumped them into the top 10. Of note YVR is the fastest growing international airport in North America (on a percentage basis). All in all looks like a lot to celebrate.

http://i.imgur.com/wr4jRSv.jpg
http://imgur.com/wr4jRSv

I'd love to look at international only, but unfortunately US airports don't break it out that way, it's all just intl., so this will have to do, even though it skews Canadian airports higher.

Love that chart. Little ole YVR punching well above its weight!

I think also the problem with "international" stats is that we should also breakdown North America as a whole because the Caribbean, Mexico and Central America technically fall into that category. We all know that YVR's international stats are boosted significantly by transborder but if you factor in all that sun flying from YUL, we would again have a totally different picture. In any event it is cool to see YVR is now the #2 airport in Canada for international. There are challenges ahead and YUL certainly getting more int'l capacity as well in 2015.... we will see how this all pans out :-)

YYZ Nov and Dec stats could actually push them into the #1 growth spot for overall pax for the major Canadian Airports for 2014 (ahead of YVR). Time will tell :-)

LeftCoaster
Jan 28, 2015, 12:25 AM
Time really will tell, and they are taking their sweet time releasing their stats. So much for that Toronto work ethic eh?

I wish someone would break down # of widebody aircraft seen by each airport, becuase that really is one aspect that makes an airport feel a lot larger.

Miami intl for instance doesn't feel like as massive an intl hub as it is because so many of their intl flights are on 737s and 320s down to the carribean/central america, whereas plane spotting at somwhere like Changi you see a lot of heavy planes landing.

cyeg66
Jan 28, 2015, 1:00 AM
I'd love to look at international only, but unfortunately US airports don't break it out that way, it's all just intl., so this will have to do, even though it skews Canadian airports higher.

I know what you're saying (the point you're trying to make), however I don't understand it when folks diss Canadian airports for "inflated" international stats, as though the transborder passengers shouldn't count toward them. For some puritans, it's just not as 'sexy', I guess. International travel can't be more simply or clearly defined: Do they cross a border?

Dubai is now the world's busiest international airport, but could also be labeled, somewhat less glamorously, the most impotent domestic airport in the world. Lines must be drawn somewhere. :)

Impressively, YYZ may fall just short of 24M international pax. :tup:

Hourglass
Jan 28, 2015, 1:32 AM
With all the rumored interest from Chinese airlines in flying to YVR, I could see them doing onward flights to Central/Latin America if TWOV does become a reality. TSA in the US has an appalling reputation and procedures at US airports are not really geared to optimize international-international transfers.

Klazu
Jan 28, 2015, 1:47 AM
With all the rumored interest from Chinese airlines in flying to YVR, I could see them doing onward flights to Central/Latin America if TWOV does become a reality. TSA in the US has an appalling reputation and procedures at US airports are not really geared to optimize international-international transfers.

Yeah, TWOV would be a big thing, as many have pointed out. Personally, I always try to avoid connect at US airports just because of the TSA circus. It might not seem so bad for you with Canadian passport, but for us foreigners the paperwork is a mess not worth touching unless one has to.

trofirhen
Jan 28, 2015, 3:02 AM
And thank you for constantly reminding us of that little tidbit for the 23rd time :)

I'd almost forgotten that one route was closer to route via somewhere else!

YVR is doomed!

No, it is not doomed !! I'm just saying that with Emirates and its routes into China, Vancouver does not have the monopoly many would like to believe.
Nevertheless, we're doin' pretty damn' hotshit good, yes! Case closed

Klazu
Jan 28, 2015, 3:05 AM
I think Emirates and Dubai are a much bigger threat to a hundred other airport than YVR. Our corner of the world might be one of the most protected places from the reach of Middle East airlines due to our location.

trofirhen
Jan 28, 2015, 3:17 AM
I think Emirates and Dubai are a much bigger threat to a hundred other airport than YVR. Our corner of the world might be one of the most protected places from the reach of Middle East airlines due to our location.
Thank you, that puts it into perspective so much better. Excuse me. As people say, YVR is positioned to be THE Asia Gateway. Again, I stand corrected.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 28, 2015, 3:18 AM
No, it is not doomed !! I'm just saying that with Emirates and its routes into China, Vancouver does not have the monopoly many would like to believe.
Nevertheless, we're doin' pretty damn' hotshit good, yes! Case closed

I was just taking the piss! But yeah the spin cycle about South America.
I was getting kinda dizzy.
Fact ----> YVR is doing just fine without one direct link to South America.
Q. Why are there no direct links to South America?
A. YVR-South America is a blip.
Q. Will YVR land a direct South America link?
A. Absolutely a huge possibility... But will be quite limited to no more than a handful of frequencies to just a very few destinations.

YVR has very far from any sort of monopoly. Does anyone really think that they do? What YVR does have is an excellent array of options to all over Asia, and increasingly to Europe. The China market is still hugely untapped and YVR is perfectly positioned to grab a bigger chunk of it along with a host of many other North American cities. :-) I still think there won't be much more to Europe YVR can make feasible but Asia? Oh yeah... and if some of that includes links to South America... Excellent! More to come!

trofirhen
Jan 28, 2015, 3:45 AM
I was just taking the piss! But yeah the spin cycle about South America.
I was getting kinda dizzy.
Fact ----> YVR is doing just fine without one direct link to South America.
Q. Why are there no direct links to South America?
A. YVR-South America is a blip.
Q. Will YVR land a direct South America link?
A. Absolutely a huge possibility... But will be quite limited to no more than a handful of frequencies to just a very few destinations.

YVR has very far from any sort of monopoly. Does anyone really think that they do? What YVR does have is an excellent array of options to all over Asia, and increasingly to Europe. The China market is still hugely untapped and YVR is perfectly positioned to grab a bigger chunk of it along with a host of many other North American cities. :-) I still think there won't be much more to Europe YVR can make feasible but Asia? Oh yeah... and if some of that includes links to South America... Excellent! More to come!
Regarding this, I was thinking only of Lima and São Paulo, nothing more.
(well, ok, ..... maybe Santiago in a few years ... )

SpongeG
Jan 28, 2015, 3:50 AM
How much cheaper really is it now considering the exchange rate, gas and parking money all included? Not to mention the hassle.

depends how cheap a person one is i guess, but a friend is looking to go to arizona, its direct from vancouver to phoenix for $275 US dollars, from bellingham to phoenix with one stop it was $213 US dollars, not imo worth the savings if you have to have a stopover somewhere

SpongeG
Jan 28, 2015, 6:34 AM
X_JRYTiuv-M

SpongeG
Jan 28, 2015, 6:40 AM
this is a fun watch

aOm8gXveIlk

Hourglass
Jan 28, 2015, 7:22 AM
I was just taking the piss! But yeah the spin cycle about South America.
I was getting kinda dizzy.
Fact ----> YVR is doing just fine without one direct link to South America.
Q. Why are there no direct links to South America?
A. YVR-South America is a blip.
Q. Will YVR land a direct South America link?
A. Absolutely a huge possibility... But will be quite limited to no more than a handful of frequencies to just a very few destinations.

YVR has very far from any sort of monopoly. Does anyone really think that they do? What YVR does have is an excellent array of options to all over Asia, and increasingly to Europe. The China market is still hugely untapped and YVR is perfectly positioned to grab a bigger chunk of it along with a host of many other North American cities. :-) I still think there won't be much more to Europe YVR can make feasible but Asia? Oh yeah... and if some of that includes links to South America... Excellent! More to come!

YVR - South America is a blip. China to South America via YVR? With China trying to get resources like there's no tomorrow plus geopolitical considerations? Maybe more than a blip. Prob 2-3x/weekly to a destination in Latin America to start.

Also wanted to share article about DL and AS in Seattle: http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2015/01/26/alaska-airlines-we-dont-want-to-pay-for-new-sea.html?ana=yahoo&page=2

This article made me recall something Johnny said: YVR's strength is its diversity of international carriers. While it's nice to have a large hub carrier like DL dominating international routes a la Seattle, in terms of getting non-Skyteam airlines to fly to SEA, many might think twice now. Even US airlines such as American and UA have beat a retreat from that market. SEA still a threat, esp once they've upgraded their facilities, but YVR has some good strengths of its own.

trofirhen
Jan 28, 2015, 8:23 AM
YVR - South America is a blip. China to South America via YVR? With China trying to get resources like tomorrow plus geopolitical considerations? Maybe more than a blip. Prob 2-3x/weekly to a destination in Latin America to start.

Also wanted to share article about DL and AS in Seattle: http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2015/01/26/alaska-airlines-we-dont-want-to-pay-for-new-sea.html?ana=yahoo&page=2

This article made me recall something Johnny said: YVR's strength is its diversity of international carriers. While it's nice to have a large hub carrier like DL dominating international routes a la Seattle, in terms of getting non-Skyteam airlines to fly to SEA, many might think twice now. Even US airlines such as American and UA have beat a retreat from that market. SEA still a threat, esp once they've upgraded their facilities, but YVR has some good strengths of its own.

Yes, as you say, a wide range of foreign tails: BA, KLM, LF,and AF upcoming,
partly serve what Air Canada will not serve. And that's just Europe;)

And the number of Asian destinations, so high, so often served by Chinese airlines, plus TWO major Japanese airlines, KE and PAL, ANZ ......

(excuse the scoolboy recital, but it was just to jog the memory)

Another good, if not great strenght of its own is when TWOV is ready. This April, I understand.

twoNeurons
Jan 28, 2015, 4:43 PM
As an "open-source" hub Vancouver isn't dependent on Air Canada. Smart strategy.

ACT7
Jan 28, 2015, 6:10 PM
I know what you're saying (the point you're trying to make), however I don't understand it when folks diss Canadian airports for "inflated" international stats, as though the transborder passengers shouldn't count toward them. For some puritans, it's just not as 'sexy', I guess. International travel can't be more simply or clearly defined: Do they cross a border?

Dubai is now the world's busiest international airport, but could also be labeled, somewhat less glamorously, the most impotent domestic airport in the world. Lines must be drawn somewhere. :)

Impressively, YYZ may fall just short of 24M international pax. :tup:
Couldn't agree with you more on that point. Same goes for many European airports, which I'm sure count EU/Eurozone passengers as international even though they may not pass through any kind of customs or passport control. Case in point - arriving into CDG from FRA, and vice versa, as well as arrival into PRG from FRA and vice versa. I'm pretty certain we were counted as international.

trofirhen
Jan 29, 2015, 1:51 AM
As an "open-source" hub Vancouver isn't dependent on Air Canada. Smart strategy.
......... and isn't that what Calin Rovisescu warned of: that Vancouver, without a substantial Air Canada hub, would become: ... a "stub" airport.

.... well if it is a "stub" ... some stub!! We have a wide array of foreign carriers, especially high for a city our size (not a 5 million+ type of place) ...
AC seemed to want everything feasible to go through YYZ, but in Vancouver's case the airlines came to us, including 4 major European carriers, among numerous others.

Johnny Aussie
Jan 29, 2015, 10:55 AM
Originally Air China was planning only 1 daily 77W this summer on the YVR-PEK route.

They have now added back the additional 4 weekly earlier flight also on a 77W.

So frequency will now be the same as summer 2014 at 11 weekly but all flights will be on 77Ws compared to 332s last summer.

That's a pretty large boost to capacity... over 830 seats per week and all flights will offer First Class.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/01/29/ca-s15update2/

Edit: this puts YVR-China (incl HKG) back to 70 flights per week but this year additional capacity as well to PEK and PVG.

HKG: 21 pw
PVG: 21 pw
PEK: 18 pw
CAN: 7 pw
SHE/CTU: 3 pw

And overall Asia goes to 132 per week. PLUS additional capacity to KIX (new), NRT, HND, ICN and MNL.

If YVR does land direct flights to Xiamen, Kunming, Hangzhou (appear to be all credible rumours) etc would be a nice sweetener on the top eh?

I really think it's just a matter of time YVR lands direct flights to those cities plus Chongqing, Nanjing, Harbin, Xi'an, Qingdao, Shenzhen, Wuhan.... etc....

Edit #2: Interesting timing of adding back the additional 4 weekly (not on that SSC chart a couple of pages back)... CA has also just announced MEL-PEK nonstop (that is on the SSC chart) which will eventually go daily later this year... slots must have been found for these! Star Alliance is hinting to me to give Air China another go... Prior to this to fly Air China to Canada, the MEL-PEK flight made a stop in PVG. Really added to the journey... Thinking maybe an option for this upcoming Xmas trip :-)I'm all about giving second chances!!

Valley_Refugee
Jan 29, 2015, 8:03 PM
Regarding this, I was thinking only of Lima and São Paulo, nothing more.
(well, ok, ..... maybe Santiago in a few years ... )

You're not off topic per se, but I think Johnny's point is that you raise the same points every few days when they don't have much to do with the flow of conversation.

.... well if it is a "stub" ... some stub!! We have a wide array of foreign carriers, especially high for a city our size (not a 5 million+ type of place) ...
AC seemed to want everything feasible to go through YYZ, but in Vancouver's case the airlines came to us, including 4 major European carriers, among numerous others.

This is a complete change of tune...

Hourglass
Jan 30, 2015, 3:15 AM
I really think it's just a matter of time YVR lands direct flights to those cities plus Chongqing, Nanjing, Harbin, Xi'an, Qingdao, Shenzhen, Wuhan.... etc....


Don't really see Shenzhen happening, sandwiched as it is between HKG and CAN with 28 weekly nonstop flights to YVR among them.

I travel a lot in China, and personally I think it's going to be some time before we see flights to the other cities you mentioned (with maybe the exception of Chongqing). More than likely to be proven wrong though, given China's rapid development and when even a tier II city like Harbin has over 10 million people...

Johnny Aussie
Jan 30, 2015, 3:49 AM
Don't really see Shenzhen happening, sandwiched as it is between HKG and CAN with 28 weekly nonstop flights to YVR among them.

I travel a lot in China, and personally I think it's going to be some time before we see flights to the other cities you mentioned (with maybe the exception of Chongqing). More than likely to be proven wrong though, given China's rapid development and when even a tier II city like Harbin has over 10 million people...

Like I said... Just a matter of time... How much time? Dunno.
5 years ago if someone suggested YVR would have direct flights to Shenyang or Chengdu I would have asked what they were smoking.
Surprised to see Kunming and Hangzhou mentioned.. one never can tell what's up in the strange world of the airline industry.
Same with Downunder... all sorts of secondary Chinese cities being thrown around as potential routes.
China = one huge and still untapped market.

Edit: speaking of Chengdu ... there is speculation that Sichuan may increase YVR to 4 weekly, but the 4th weekly would go via another secondary city rather than Shenyang. Or move one of the Shenyang flights as well. They would fly 2 via Shenyang and 2 via XXX. This is dependent (partially) on what they do with Australia, as Australia is their only other long haul market. So many rumours in regards to China!

Johnny Aussie
Feb 2, 2015, 12:36 AM
A little more on "The Rivers Monument" in the new A/B Connector.

http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2015/01/16/marianne-nicolson-yvr-takes-a-chance-on-challenging-art/#__federated=1

Johnny Aussie
Feb 2, 2015, 1:05 AM
Interesting development coming out of the USA.

The Big 3 US Carriers lobbying to restrict ME3 growth.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/246958/us-airlines-make-call-to-restrict-gulf-carrier-growth-in-us-market/

trofirhen
Feb 2, 2015, 1:30 AM
Up until several years ago, I was all for letting in Emirates or Qatar into Vancouver, and was disappointed when we didn't get them.
*
Time going by, and having observed what the M3 carriers (esp Emirates) have done in regard to siphoning off traffic to the Gulf airports (again, Dubai the leader) I know realize how these carriers can "cannibalize" air traffic which would normally be using other airlines, and am just as happy to see them out of YVR, with only a limited presence in Toronto.
*
Here in YVR, we don't really need them as a connector at Dubai, as our prime
objective of air routes to India would be further undrmined by that, and there would, I'm sure be almost no O/D traffic between YVR-DBX.
*
Having said that, however, I think that not only a route to Delhi would (for obvious factors already discussed here) will prove useful and necessary, but that another
route - such as into IST - would serve well tonnect to all the Middle East, the Balkans, Greece, and East Africa (Cairo, Nairobi, for example).
*
There's a restriction on the # of flights into Canada allowed by "Ottawa" so naturally YYZ has the IST route locked down, for the time being.
*
But back on topic, yes, Emirates (more than any other) has spread its tentacles far wide, and now serves not only London and Manchester, but Birmingham, Glasgow, and Dublin, siphoning off what would normally be BA, Pakistan International, Air India traffic, etc. And other European airlines are losing blood to them, including AF.
*
However, if we're going to keep the M3 out - from a YVR perspective, anyway _ are there any routes and destinations that could be taken up profitably by any other airlines > > > > Ottawa permitting?

Klazu
Feb 2, 2015, 2:33 AM
Up until several years ago, I was all for letting in Emirates or Qatar into Vancouver, and was disappointed when we didn't get them.

I think this was up until a bit more recently than several years ago. Just saying. :rolleyes:

trofirhen
Feb 2, 2015, 3:24 AM
I think this was up until a bit more recently than several years ago. Just saying. :rolleyes:
Thank you for the kick in the butt. OK, I'll rephrase that .......
Up until a couple of months ago .........
I was blind, but now can see ......
More to your satisfaction, I hope.

Pinion
Feb 2, 2015, 3:26 AM
Can I also request you stop saying things like "here in YVR" when you're in Europe, it's pretty weird. You can be interested in Vancouver without pretending to still live here.

trofirhen
Feb 2, 2015, 3:36 AM
Can I also request you stop saying things like "here in YVR" when you're in Europe, it's pretty weird. You can be interested in Vancouver without pretending to still live here.
I'll simply drop the word "here" from any sentence or phrase referring to Vancouver. / BTW, I make no pretense about living there in Vancouver. I grew up there, so
it somehow still feels like "here" to me, in a sense. Hope you might understand that.

Pinion
Feb 2, 2015, 3:56 AM
I'll simply drop the word "here" from any sentence or phrase referring to Vancouver. / BTW, I make no pretense about living there in Vancouver. I grew up there, so
it somehow still feels like "here" to me, in a sense. Hope you might understand that.

Not really but thanks.

Canadian74
Feb 2, 2015, 4:41 AM
Up until several years ago, I was all for letting in Emirates or Qatar into Vancouver, and was disappointed when we didn't get them.
*
Time going by, and having observed what the M3 carriers (esp Emirates) have done in regard to siphoning off traffic to the Gulf airports (again, Dubai the leader) I know realize how these carriers can "cannibalize" air traffic which would normally be using other airlines, and am just as happy to see them out of YVR, with only a limited presence in Toronto.
*
Here in YVR, we don't really need them as a connector at Dubai, as our prime
objective of air routes to India would be further undrmined by that, and there would, I'm sure be almost no O/D traffic between YVR-DBX.
*
Having said that, however, I think that not only a route to Delhi would (for obvious factors already discussed here) will prove useful and necessary, but that another
route - such as into IST - would serve well tonnect to all the Middle East, the Balkans, Greece, and East Africa (Cairo, Nairobi, for example).
*
There's a restriction on the # of flights into Canada allowed by "Ottawa" so naturally YYZ has the IST route locked down, for the time being.
*
But back on topic, yes, Emirates (more than any other) has spread its tentacles far wide, and now serves not only London and Manchester, but Birmingham, Glasgow, and Dublin, siphoning off what would normally be BA, Pakistan International, Air India traffic, etc. And other European airlines are losing blood to them, including AF.
*
However, if we're going to keep the M3 out - from a YVR perspective, anyway _ are there any routes and destinations that could be taken up profitably by any other airlines > > > > Ottawa permitting?

One of the most important thing the M3 offer for India/Pakistan routes is one-stop flights to secondary Indian/Pakistani cities which European/Turkish don't offer. That's why they are so desirable by travellers

Large Cat
Feb 2, 2015, 4:57 AM
Quoted from bike/pedestrian discussion:

Just an update for people who may be biking to the airport:

The bike path from Templeton Station out to Airport Rd., next to the McArthur Glen designer outlet development, has been complete for a while. Here are some pics:

Album (http://imgur.com/a/BvMqm)

Johnny Aussie
Feb 2, 2015, 5:57 AM
One of the most important thing the M3 offer for India/Pakistan routes is one-stop flights to secondary Indian/Pakistani cities which European/Turkish don't offer. That's why they are so desirable by travellers

Correct... But the #1 Canada-India market (YYZ) the vast majority of travellers are going to DEL and BOM, and the #2 Canada-India market (YVR) the vast majority of passengers are going to DEL. Other Canada-India markets are quite small. And the Canada-secondary India markets are minimal at this time.

Hot Rod
Feb 2, 2015, 8:44 AM
With a lot of 2014 stats firming up I thought I'd take a look at top intl airports in North America (excluding Central America). Looks like YVR's good year bumped them into the top 10. Of note YVR is the fastest growing international airport in North America (on a percentage basis). All in all looks like a lot to celebrate.

http://i.imgur.com/wr4jRSv.jpg
http://imgur.com/wr4jRSv

I'd love to look at international only, but unfortunately US airports don't break it out that way, it's all just intl., so this will have to do, even though it skews Canadian airports higher.

How does it skew Canadian airports higher? American and overseas airports count Canada as International pax, there are no Transborder terminals in the USA (although there is pre-clearance, on both sides/major airports).

So why can't Canadian airports count USA as Int'l? Again, why is it skewed higher when Canadian airports report International including USA?

Valley_Refugee
Feb 2, 2015, 5:42 PM
How does it skew Canadian airports higher? American and overseas airports count Canada as International pax, there are no Transborder terminals in the USA (although there is pre-clearance, on both sides/major airports).

So why can't Canadian airports count USA as Int'l? Again, why is it skewed higher when Canadian airports report International including USA?

As far as I know, there are no Canadian pre-clearance facilities in US airports. All Canadian-bound flights leave from international terminals. The pre-clearance program is a US-only program at 8 airports in Canada and (I believe) 1 or 2 in Ireland. But yes, I agree, US passengers should just be counted as international, so there's no 'skewing' either way.

Hot Rod
Feb 2, 2015, 7:07 PM
I agree. If anything the Canadian way of counting Understates International since it leaves off USA from most reporting and calls them Transborder. I do agree with the point regarding the carribean; why are they Int'l and not Transborder since they're still technically North American. ... Anyways.
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.
.
. .
.. ..
... ...
.... ....

.... ....

On another note, with regard to Trof and his use of "us" and "we" and "here" with regard to Vancouver, I also do not live in the city (live in Seattle) but Vancouver is a second home to me like many Seattleites (like I'm sure many true Vancouverites consider Seattle a 2nd base) and therefore I also use "us" and such with regard to my Vancouver posts. I don't think there should be a problem for Trof to do the same since he/she is an expat from Vancouver, no? I think he just wants to help or is motivated to chat about his hometown. Nobody seemed to offended with me saying those yet I always note I am from Seattle (note we both use "ite" with regard to residing in our city). ...

shoot, my runway ILS lights did not post properly - but anyway, that's what those dots were supposed to be. :)

craneSpotter
Feb 2, 2015, 11:55 PM
Air New Zealand from 05FEB15 is expanding codeshare partnership with Air Canada, which sees NZ code being displayed on Air Canada’s service to destinations within the Province of British Columbia, as well as to the Province of Alberta.

Air New Zealand operated by Air Canada

Vancouver – Edmonton
Vancouver – Kamloops
Vancouver – Kelowna
Vancouver – Victoria

http://airlineroute.net/2015/02/02/nzac-codeshare-feb15/

Johnny Aussie
Feb 3, 2015, 4:17 AM
Sunwing will have 12 weekly departures from YVR this summer, up from 9 weekly last summer.

They are increasing YVR-YYZ to daily up from 5 weekly last summer. A daily red-eye departing at 2315.

In addition one weekly flight to each of CUN, SNU, SJD, PVR and VRA will be offered. SNU is being brought back this summer.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 3, 2015, 11:09 PM
As expected, Qantas will be gracing YVR's skies on a more permanent seasonal basis (if that makes any sense.)

http://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-to-fly-to-vancouver-for-summer-and-ski-holidays

13 return flights to be offered in June/July and another 20 over the December/January period next winter.

It's a start! And a sign that permanent year-round service will return once they get the right aircraft to service this high demand route.

trofirhen
Feb 3, 2015, 11:35 PM
As expected, Qantas will be gracing YVR's skies on a more permanent seasonal basis (if that makes any sense.)

http://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-to-fly-to-vancouver-for-summer-and-ski-holidays

13 return flights to be offered in June/July and another 20 over the December/January period next winter.

It's a start! And a sign that permanent year-round service will return once they get the right aircraft to service this high demand route.
FANTASTIC !!! This is like an old, long-lost friend coming back !! :cheers:

Klazu
Feb 4, 2015, 1:51 AM
Excellent. Now if only Singaporean Airlines would make a comeback... :)

Johnny Aussie
Feb 4, 2015, 2:03 AM
Excellent. Now if only Singaporean Airlines would make a comeback... :)

Don't hold your breath mate. I would say this falls into the unlikely box at the moment.

If SQ could somehow negotiate some 5th freedoms with China and Canada. SQ could use one of those Chinese secondary cities as a stopover point. Again, unlikely but not completely out of the realm of ever happening. How is that for a non committed statement!
SQ's rights into Canada allows for unlimited nonstop Singapore-Canada. That's just too thin a route for that to eventuate even with the potential for onward pax flow to India.

trofirhen
Feb 4, 2015, 10:00 AM
As expected, Qantas will be gracing YVR's skies on a more permanent seasonal basis (if that makes any sense.)

http://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-to-fly-to-vancouver-for-summer-and-ski-holidays

13 return flights to be offered in June/July and another 20 over the December/January period next winter.

It's a start! And a sign that permanent year-round service will return once they get the right aircraft to service this high demand route.
Do you think we'll ever see MEL or BNE? Air Canada talked about dreamliner service to BNE starting this year, but there seems no sign of it, or am I wrong?
And with Melbourne becoming so big, so fast, isn't there a potential market there?

connect2source
Feb 4, 2015, 5:24 PM
Don't hold your breath mate. I would say this falls into the unlikely box at the moment.

If SQ could somehow negotiate some 5th freedoms with China and Canada. SQ could use one of those Chinese secondary cities as a stopover point. Again, unlikely but not completely out of the realm of ever happening. How is that for a non committed statement!
SQ's rights into Canada allows for unlimited nonstop Singapore-Canada. That's just too thin a route for that to eventuate even with the potential for onward pax flow to India.

Did Singapore Airlines lose their fifth freedom rights? They never provided nonstops to Singapore during their many years serving YVR.

I also feels Singapore Airlines' strength has been somewhat diluted by the ME3s of late so I feel YVR is far more likely to be served by one of the ME3s long before Singapore returns.

trofirhen
Feb 4, 2015, 7:45 PM
Did Singapore Airlines lose their fifth freedom rights? They never provided nonstops to Singapore during their many years serving YVR.

I also feels Singapore Airlines' strength has been somewhat diluted by the ME3s of late so I feel YVR is far more likely to be served by one of the ME3s long before Singapore returns.
I thought it was tacitly understood and agreed that never would an ME3 airline have rights to fly out of YVR.

casper
Feb 5, 2015, 1:59 AM
I thought it was tacitly understood and agreed that never would an ME3 airline have rights to fly out of YVR.

Singapore operated flights 3 times per week with a stop in South Korean. Basically competing against South Korea Airlines and Air Canada.

The word in the media at the time was they had the right to fly daily from Singapore or with a stop somewhere else (such as Japan or Taiwan) but they wanted to operate daily through South Korea.

Both Canada and South Korean did not see the point of providing the extra authorization. Singapore Airlines decided to drop the flight. That said, these types of negotiations are all closed door deals done by government agencies. Sometimes the press gets it right and sometimes not so much.

trofirhen
Feb 5, 2015, 5:13 AM
Singapore operated flights 3 times per week with a stop in South Korean. Basically competing against South Korea Airlines and Air Canada.

The word in the media at the time was they had the right to fly daily from Singapore or with a stop somewhere else (such as Japan or Taiwan) but they wanted to operate daily through South Korea.

Both Canada and South Korean did not see the point of providing the extra authorization. Singapore Airlines decided to drop the flight. That said, these types of negotiations are all closed door deals done by government agencies. Sometimes the press gets it right and sometimes not so much.
I appreciate your feedback, but how does that relate to the (perhaps necessary) blockage of the ME3 airlines from YVR?

craneSpotter
Feb 6, 2015, 2:04 AM
more codeshare action:


Philippine Airlines is expanding its network coverage in North America, through codeshare partnership with WestJet. The codeshare service is scheduled to begin on 10FEB15, although reservation is currently unavailable at time this post goes to press. Planned codeshare routes as follow.

Philippine Airlines operated by WestJet

Toronto – Montreal
Toronto – Ottawa
Vancouver – Calgary
Vancouver – Edmonton
Vancouver – Toronto *
Vancouver – Winnipeg

* Effective 15MAR15

http://airlineroute.net/2015/02/05/prws-codeshare-feb15/

Vanzunator
Feb 6, 2015, 2:41 AM
Can I also request you stop saying things like "here in YVR" when you're in Europe, it's pretty weird. You can be interested in Vancouver without pretending to still live here.

I have to say I'm disappointed to see this type of uncalled for postings on this forum. Considering all the contributions that he has made to this forum over the years, you need to highlight the fact that he used word 'here'!

Hot Rod
Feb 6, 2015, 6:08 AM
another sign of the rise of the Chinese mega-city Chongqing and their Jiangbei International Airport profile (btw-just under 30m pax this year). ..

http://english.cqnews.net/html/2015-01/26/content_33290207.htm

Just a matter of time before Chongqing-Vancouver comes online. . :)

red-paladin
Feb 6, 2015, 7:53 AM
3 PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR 66% OF YVR AIRPORT’S 1,695 NOISE COMPLAINTS
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/01/3-people-responsible-66-yvr-airports-1695-noise-complaints/

deasine
Feb 6, 2015, 8:16 AM
Interesting upcoming Rouge flight: YYZ-YXX http://airlineroute.net/2015/02/06/zx-jun15/

casper
Feb 6, 2015, 7:03 PM
I appreciate your feedback, but how does that relate to the (perhaps necessary) blockage of the ME3 airlines from YVR?

I was replying to the comment asking if Singapore lost their fifth freedom rights or not.

Alpine
Feb 7, 2015, 12:57 AM
I was doing some research as to why there is no direct Vancouver-India flight. And I think it has less to do with YYZ and AC bullying YVR.

Longhaul flights make most of its money from business travel; premium cabins and last-minute tickets contribute about 50% of revenue to an average international flight. The former is expensive and the latter has inelastic pricing (airlines know clients will pay anything because the boss said "fly out ASAP" and the company is also paying).

At any rate, Canada and India don't do much business. In 2013 two-party trade was $6B, a third of India-Australia trade and twelve times that of Canada-China trade (if you are ever at YVR late in the morning, see how many pieces of Louis Vuitton luggage you can spot at the check-in line for AC29 to Beijing). So there's little demand for Vancouver-India business travel.

The vast majority of Vancouver-India traffic is VFR traffic. Most Indo-Canadians here are working or middle class; descended from settlers who built the CPR in the 19th century, or refugees who fled a Sikh extremist insurgency and the subsequent anti-Sikh violence in India in the 1980s. They're not rich and Indian culture is well known for promoting frugality anyway (e.g. buying milk at the Bellingham Costco). VFR passengers tend to find the cheapest seats they can. They will book in economy, buy in advance and get the Y [restricted] seats because they're cheaper. Indians tend to travel in families,

Also, VFR travellers will prefer a cheaper flight with stopovers than a indirect flight; doubly so for Indians who generally travel in families and can't afford the extra $400/person. This actually works out perfectly for airlines with the rise of hub traffic. The BA86 or AC854 to LHR can handle the large number of MENASA-descent people in Vancouver who often travel to this region and will connect at Heathrow to Emirates, Qatar, Saudiya, etc.; while still accommodating the handful of business travellers in the premium cabins for which a direct flight would not be profitable. Combined with strong Canada-UK trade that increases demand for YVR-LHR premium seats and you have an equation for profitability.

It's the same from YVR-India traffic. I mean, look at how many Indians you see at the CX889 check in line late at night. It arrives at HKG at 7am, perfect timing for the CX695 to Delhi late in the afternoon.

Other routes that I've found in my research include:

AC854 YVR-LHR AI116 LHR-DEL (three hours for transit)

China Eastern MU582 YVR-PVG MU563 PVG-DEL (4.5 hours for transit)

China Southern CZ330 YVR-CAN CZ359 CAN-DEL (two hours for transit)

Air China CA992 YVR-PEK CA947 PEK-DEL (five hours for transit)

LH493 YVR-FRA LH760 FRA-DEL (three hours for transit)

China Airlines CI31 YVR-TPE CI71 TPE-DEL (two hours for transit)

Depending on the day you fly out, and how far in advance you prices for these routings hover around the $1,100-1,300 area.

Routes I'm not so sure about:

BA84/257 YVR-LHR-DEL (expensive)

JL17 YVR-NRT JL749 NRT-DEL (requires an overnight layover)

ANA 115 YVR-HND and ANA 917 NRT-DEL (requires a connection by train)

Such is the business of aviation. Phillippine's direct YYZ-MNL and AC's direct YUL-FCO failed because while there are large numbers of Pinoys and Italians in Toronto and Montreal, they are mostly middle and working class, price-sensitive VFR travellers.

Another great example closer to Vancouver is the fact that, despite a large Ethiopian population in Seattle, there is no direct SEA-ADD flight. Indeed, there are large Ethiopian diasporas in Atlanta, Minneapolis, Dallas and LA (not in NYC surprisingly), but ET has only two NA destinations: IAD and YYZ, to scoop up East Coast business traffic and Ethiopians connecting from elsewhere in the US and Canada. East Coast business traffic is also the reason why AC is restarting YYZ-DEL.

Similar logic may explain why there is no direct year-round flight to Paris, Rome, Athens, Dubai, Doha, Moscow, etc. much to the chagrin of SSP.

O/T: Being of Ethiopian myself, I have flown to Addis Ababa twice, and my family goes back from time to time. I flew BA both times; BA86 to Heathrow, and then BA6565 (operated by BMED which was bought by BMI and later shut down. The only London-Addis flight today is Ethiopian 701). The first time I flew, the plane stopped over in Alexandria, Egypt. The next year, it was via Beirut (it was a year after the Lebanon War so I was hoping to see some war damage, but we arrived very early in the morning and it was too dark to see anything. I did however get to see the sun rise over Egypt). My parents have flown LH493 and 598 via Frankfurt, then AC156/ET503 and ET502/AC149 once Ethiopian began YYZ-ADD service.

Hourglass
Feb 7, 2015, 3:13 AM
I thought it was tacitly understood and agreed that never would an ME3 airline have rights to fly out of YVR.

I believe the current bilateral agreement limits flights to 6x / weekly to Canada by the gulf airlines. Emirates tried to play hardball to get more access and lost.

A liberalized agreement might see flights by EK to YVR, but candidly don't see what the incentive is for Canada to agree to this. Also, I'd see the ME3 serving YUL before YVR

Johnny Aussie
Feb 7, 2015, 5:47 AM
I believe the current bilateral agreement limits flights to 6x / weekly to Canada by the gulf airlines. Emirates tried to play hardball to get more access and lost.

A liberalized agreement might see flights by EK to YVR, but candidly don't see what the incentive is for Canada to agree to this. Also, I'd see the ME3 serving YUL before YVR

Qatar is already well established at YUL. So all three are in Canada. Yup... All 3 would be well down my list of possible new airlines or routes out of YVR... Slightly above Delta launching new flights to Cedar Rapids. Well ok, maybe a bit higher than slightly..

teriyaki
Feb 7, 2015, 6:25 AM
Interesting upcoming Rouge flight: YYZ-YXX http://airlineroute.net/2015/02/06/zx-jun15/

That is a very interesting route. I wonder how they'll price this one... I know plenty of people that would willingly make the drive out from YVR to save a few bucks on this high-priced route.

Hourglass
Feb 7, 2015, 8:05 AM
Qatar is already well established at YUL. So all three are in Canada. Yup... All 3 would be well down my list of possible new airlines or routes out of YVR... Slightly above Delta launching new flights to Cedar Rapids. Well ok, maybe a bit higher than slightly..

Cedar Rapids = new DL Asia gateway??? ;) Might give SEA a run for its money.

Yeah don't think we'll see the ME3 in YVR anytime soon -- not only bilateral limitations but market opportunity as well.

trofirhen
Feb 7, 2015, 11:50 PM
I believe the current bilateral agreement limits flights to 6x / weekly to Canada by the gulf airlines. Emirates tried to play hardball to get more access and lost.

A liberalized agreement might see flights by EK to YVR, but candidly don't see what the incentive is for Canada to agree to this. Also, I'd see the ME3 serving YUL before YVR

Qatar is already well established at YUL. So all three are in Canada. Yup... All 3 would be well down my list of possible new airlines or routes out of YVR... Slightly above Delta launching new flights to Cedar Rapids. Well ok, maybe a bit higher than slightly..
Anyway, what we're really after here (oops there - sorry Pinion) is a direct flight to Delhi.
This would really eliminate the necessity for the ME3 from Vancouver, where they'd no doubt figure out a way to bleed off our already hard-won traffic and range of airlines.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 8, 2015, 11:12 AM
Well from 4 Aug - 31 August at least!

So inaugural 789 flight will be 4 Aug YYZ-YVR

AC169 YYZ1300 - 1456YVR 789 DAILY
AC100 YVR1630 - 2352YYZ 789 DAILY

This replaces a daily 763.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/02/08/ac-789-s15update1/

Johnny Aussie
Feb 9, 2015, 6:33 AM
United is slowly beefing up its summer scheds.

They seem to be doing it more gradually this year.

They have finally added EWR but so far in June only.

SFO still showing 6 daily in May but down to 4 for the rest of the summer?

DEN back to 3 daily for the entire summer now.

No sign of IAD yet....

ORD, IAH and LAX same as last summer already.

craneSpotter
Feb 9, 2015, 6:21 PM
A bit of an update on Canada Jetlines...they posted a proposed (future - late 2016/early 2017) route map on Facebook last night based on the operation of 16 aircraft.. of course many of the routes are seasonal and they focus on some secondary airports to reduce costs like Oakland for the SF Bay Area, ONT for the LA/Palm Springs area and Mesa Gateway for the Phoenix area. I really like the YVR-Miami route. In Canada they focus on Winnipeg and Hamilton. Not surprised by Hamilton as Toronto is next door, but thought they would pick YEG over YWG due to market size.

Proposed route map is here - http://s18.postimg.org/lkgc35lnt/10968528_699465170165965_4018382606770434563_n.png

Plus an update on the financial side ... which was a bit troubling .. the have cancelled the amalgamation with Inovent capital for the TSX listing (maybe lack of investor interest?) and released this statement:

“We continue to believe that our business model represents an attractive value proposition for both investors and price-sensitive passengers and this is supported by parties that we have spoken to. This is an exciting time for Jetlines as we take aggressive steps to change the face of the industry. Jetlines will pursue other compelling opportunities available to it and we look forward to commencing operations in the near term.” said Jim Scott, Chief Executive Officer of Jetlines. - See more at: http://www.jetlines.ca/2015/02/06/canada-jetlines-terminates-previously-announced-amalgamation-agreement/#sthash.bqRxPh8U.dpuf


I'm still pulling for these guys to start up :)

Johnny Aussie
Feb 9, 2015, 8:23 PM
A bit of an update on Canada Jetlines...
Plus an update on the financial side ... which was a bit troubling .. the have cancelled the amalgamation with Inovent capital for the TSX listing (maybe lack of investor interest?)

I'm still pulling for these guys to start up :)

Sounds like a pretty big set back to me. I wouldn't be holding my breath. This, at best, means the whole project will be delayed. At worst, they are finished already.
So much for their model of not competing on routes that don't have AC and/or WS jets on them. I see quite a few there.

Edit: article in Globe & Mail today:

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/canada-jetlines-plans-cross-canada-expansion/article22879937/?service=mobile

"...Jetlines says it faces only minor delays due to the cancelled merger..."

"The carrier still hopes to raise money..."

Etc

Johnny Aussie
Feb 9, 2015, 8:27 PM
Just had a look at UK stats for November and December.

YVR had some very good growth:

YVR-LGW November grew 7% and December grew 28%
YVR-LHR November grew 14% and December grew 23%

Pretty decent, especially December.

deasine
Feb 10, 2015, 8:05 PM
Just had a look at UK stats for November and December.

YVR had some very good growth:

YVR-LGW November grew 7% and December grew 28%
YVR-LHR November grew 14% and December grew 23%

Pretty decent, especially December.

I hope these numbers would show to AC that a double daily from Vancouver is possible with a lower capacity aircraft (perhaps 787 as opposed to 777-HDs). I would expect the exit from Virgin Atlantic would allow for higher frequencies on the AC route.

craneSpotter
Feb 11, 2015, 6:15 AM
Sounds like a pretty big set back to me. I wouldn't be holding my breath. This, at best, means the whole project will be delayed. At worst, they are finished already.
So much for their model of not competing on routes that don't have AC and/or WS jets on them. I see quite a few there.

Edit: article in Globe & Mail today:

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/canada-jetlines-plans-cross-canada-expansion/article22879937/?service=mobile

"...Jetlines says it faces only minor delays due to the cancelled merger..."

"The carrier still hopes to raise money..."

Etc

Well, this gets more interesting. Yesterday I read speculation in the NP that the reason Jetlines cancelled the planned amalg & IPO with Inovent (which apparently had a renew date of Jan 31) was due to a more lucrative financing offer from a third party. Some speculated it could be either the backers of Spirit or a Ryan (Ryan Air). Of course rumours will run their course.... but something seems to be happening. Inovent says they are now threatening legal action. Maybe this is all smoke and mirrors to drum up interest from investors... like that route map they posted a couple of days ago.

http://business.financialpost.com/2015/02/10/jetlines-partner-inovent-capital-threatens-legal-action-after-being-left-at-the-altar/#__federated=1

Edit: Apparently Boeing has the right to terminate the lease/purchase agreement for the 737NGs with Canada Jetlines if certain conditions are not met - such as having raised $8 million by Jan 15 & have raised $35 million plus have their AOC by May 31. Boeing has done nothing, yet, as far as I can find. I have read that Canada Jetlines expects to have its AOC from the CTA by mid-May... and plans for a July startup. Hmmm...wait and see where the money will come from.

Hourglass
Feb 11, 2015, 3:13 PM
Record year for Air Canada: http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=854

Net income of $531 million
Operating income of $815 million
7.1% revenue growth to $11.8 billion

Very good results indeed. It'll be interesting to see what the impact of the lower C$ and decline in oil prices will have. Also interesting that they are forecasting 8.5-9.5% ASM growth in Q1'2015 compared with 2014. That is pretty significant growth.

vanlaw
Feb 11, 2015, 5:24 PM
AC3 on a 788 from YVR to NRT had to make an unscheduled stop in Anchorage yesterday. Passengers are now on their way to NRT on a 777.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/air-canada-dreamliner-makes-unscheduled-landing-in-anchorage-alaska-1.2953192

SFUVancouver
Feb 11, 2015, 7:55 PM
WRT Air Canada's good year, good for them. I'm pleased that they're able to capitalize a fleet renewal at the same time as making some money, finally. They're an easy company to begrudge, especially for those with long memories who really minded that western Canada-oriented Canadian (Pacific) Airlines got swallowed up by Air Canada and the focus shifted to a YYZ/YUL-first strategy with full support from Transport Canada and successive federal governments. With that said, YVR is an Air Canada hub and there is major MRO capabilities and employment at the airport that could pretty easily have been siphoned off.

Cage
Feb 14, 2015, 1:29 AM
For those willing to fly an Enerjet 73G from YVR-YYZ, they can connect to Air Transat's YYZ hub to get to/from Europe.

MONTREAL, Feb. 12, 2015 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Transat, Canada's leading leisure airline, is proud to introduce new destinations from Vancouver, Quebec City and Halifax. Travelers gain access to more destinations and flight frequencies for their holidays in Europe, thanks to the new flights connecting in Montreal from Quebec City and Halifax, and in Toronto from Vancouver.

Residents of Western Canada can add Dublin, Rome and Barcelona to their vacation options by connecting in Toronto. From Quebec City, additional destinations including Rome, Brussels and Bordeaux will be available when connecting in Montreal. From Halifax, this wider offering includes Rome, Brussels and Paris via domestic flight to Montreal. ......

The new connecting flight segments will also be sold separately, catering to travelers who want to enjoy the Air Transat experience when flying domestically.

For all the details on Air Transat's European destinations and flight frequencies, visit www.airtransat.ca.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1485907/air-transat-expands-its-offer-of-european-destinations

Alpine
Feb 14, 2015, 1:51 AM
I was doing some research as to why there is no direct Vancouver-India flight. And I think it has less to do with YYZ and AC bullying YVR.

Longhaul flights make most of its money from business travel; premium cabins and last-minute tickets contribute about 50% of revenue to an average international flight. The former is expensive and the latter has inelastic pricing (airlines know clients will pay anything because the boss said "fly out ASAP" and the company is also paying).

At any rate, Canada and India don't do much business. In 2013 two-party trade was $6B, a third of India-Australia trade and twelve times that of Canada-China trade (if you are ever at YVR late in the morning, see how many pieces of Louis Vuitton luggage you can spot at the check-in line for AC29 to Beijing). So there's little demand for Vancouver-India business travel.

The vast majority of Vancouver-India traffic is VFR traffic. Most Indo-Canadians here are working or middle class; descended from settlers who built the CPR in the 19th century, or refugees who fled a Sikh extremist insurgency and the subsequent anti-Sikh violence in India in the 1980s. They're not rich and Indian culture is well known for promoting frugality anyway (e.g. buying milk at the Bellingham Costco). VFR passengers tend to find the cheapest seats they can. They will book in economy, buy in advance and get the Y [restricted] seats because they're cheaper. Indians tend to travel in families,

Also, VFR travellers will prefer a cheaper flight with stopovers than a indirect flight; doubly so for Indians who generally travel in families and can't afford the extra $400/person. This actually works out perfectly for airlines with the rise of hub traffic. The BA86 or AC854 to LHR can handle the large number of MENASA-descent people in Vancouver who often travel to this region and will connect at Heathrow to Emirates, Qatar, Saudiya, etc.; while still accommodating the handful of business travellers in the premium cabins for which a direct flight would not be profitable. Combined with strong Canada-UK trade that increases demand for YVR-LHR premium seats and you have an equation for profitability.

It's the same from YVR-India traffic. I mean, look at how many Indians you see at the CX889 check in line late at night. It arrives at HKG at 7am, perfect timing for the CX695 to Delhi late in the afternoon.

Other routes that I've found in my research include:

AC854 YVR-LHR AI116 LHR-DEL (three hours for transit)

China Eastern MU582 YVR-PVG MU563 PVG-DEL (4.5 hours for transit)

China Southern CZ330 YVR-CAN CZ359 CAN-DEL (two hours for transit)

Air China CA992 YVR-PEK CA947 PEK-DEL (five hours for transit)

LH493 YVR-FRA LH760 FRA-DEL (three hours for transit)

China Airlines CI31 YVR-TPE CI71 TPE-DEL (two hours for transit)

Depending on the day you fly out, and how far in advance you prices for these routings hover around the $1,100-1,300 area.

Routes I'm not so sure about:

BA84/257 YVR-LHR-DEL (expensive)

JL17 YVR-NRT JL749 NRT-DEL (requires an overnight layover)

ANA 115 YVR-HND and ANA 917 NRT-DEL (requires a connection by train)

Such is the business of aviation. Phillippine's direct YYZ-MNL and AC's direct YUL-FCO failed because while there are large numbers of Pinoys and Italians in Toronto and Montreal, they are mostly middle and working class, price-sensitive VFR travellers.

Another great example closer to Vancouver is the fact that, despite a large Ethiopian population in Seattle, there is no direct SEA-ADD flight. Indeed, there are large Ethiopian diasporas in Atlanta, Minneapolis, Dallas and LA (not in NYC surprisingly), but ET has only two NA destinations: IAD and YYZ, to scoop up East Coast business traffic and Ethiopians connecting from elsewhere in the US and Canada. East Coast business traffic is also the reason why AC is restarting YYZ-DEL.

Similar logic may explain why there is no direct year-round flight to Paris, Rome, Athens, Dubai, Doha, Moscow, etc. much to the chagrin of SSP.

O/T: Being of Ethiopian myself, I have flown to Addis Ababa twice, and my family goes back from time to time. I flew BA both times; BA86 to Heathrow, and then BA6565 (operated by BMED which was bought by BMI and later shut down. The only London-Addis flight today is Ethiopian 701). The first time I flew, the plane stopped over in Alexandria, Egypt. The next year, it was via Beirut (it was a year after the Lebanon War so I was hoping to see some war damage, but we arrived very early in the morning and it was too dark to see anything. I did however get to see the sun rise over Egypt). My parents have flown LH493 and 598 via Frankfurt, then AC156/ET503 and ET502/AC149 once Ethiopian began YYZ-ADD service.

Wow, I guess I'm totally off the mark here. Maybe AC and YYZ strongarming YVR is the explanation. :\

casper
Feb 14, 2015, 2:46 AM
Wow, I guess I'm totally off the mark here. Maybe AC and YYZ strongarming YVR is the explanation. :\

Pretty much an European carrier can fly into YVR. They don't need YYZ or AC permission.

Weird, but the Asian airlines that have limited service to Canada tend to fly to Vancouver. The European, African, Middle East airlines that have limited service to Canada tend to go to Toronto or Montreal.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 14, 2015, 3:46 AM
For those willing to fly an Enerjet 73G from YVR-YYZ, they can connect to Air Transat's YYZ hub to get to/from Europe.

And... Wow... this summer Enerjet will have not one.. But TWO weekly flights from YVR to YYC. With the weekly flights also offered to CUN and PVR, and now YYZ, you could almost call YVR a hub for Enerjet at 5 flights per week.

trofirhen
Feb 15, 2015, 10:45 PM
And... Wow... this summer Enerjet will have not one.. But TWO weekly flights from YVR to YYC. With the weekly flights also offered to CUN and PVR, and now YYZ, you could almost call YVR a hub for Enerjet at 5 flights per week.
Give a guy a break, at least they're trying. ... (but I know where you're coming from ....)
.... or am I misinterpreting this?

thebus
Feb 17, 2015, 6:01 PM
Had a chance to visit YVR this past weekend. The A/B Connector area is very nice and I found the styling to be very continuous with the rest of the airport. I was very impressed.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 17, 2015, 8:37 PM
YYZ finally released their December pax stats. Closed off 2014 with total growth of 6.8%

Soooo...

I think for the first time, in a very long time, YVR led all of the major Canadian airports in pax growth for 2014 at 7.7%.

Comparatively as well, YVR had quite a strong December, whilst others had a bit of a slowdown towards the end of the year.

YVR's published stats do not include FBO passengers. Therefore, it is difficult to do a complete comparison with other Canadian airports when some include and some don't.

I think YQF was the overall winner with 66% growth.

Johnny Aussie
Feb 20, 2015, 5:17 AM
Jetlines has "expanded" by filling some key positions....

http://www.jetlines.ca/2015/02/18/jetlines-expands-and-introduces-new-key-staff-members/

In addition it appears they have signed leases for three 733-300s...

http://airsoc.com/articles/view/id/54e4c0b93139445f1b8b4568/canadian-ulcc-start-up-jetlines-to-lease-b737-300s-from-gecas

Things may actually be rolling along a bit more than I thought.

Edit: Jetlines has refuted (on 20 Feb) this "rumour" stating they have not signed any leases...

http://www.jetlines.ca/2015/02/20/jetlines-clarifies-aircraft-leasing-status/

Johnny Aussie
Feb 20, 2015, 9:12 AM
CMA has added a daily YVR-YXS flight on the Dornier D38 departing YVR at 0940.

Just kind of popped up out of nowhere.

Maybe they are trying to get the jump on Canada Jetlines :P

YXS_YVR
Feb 21, 2015, 2:45 AM
Today is ABX Air's last day to YVR.

hollywoodnorth
Feb 21, 2015, 3:09 AM
Business: Discount airline ready for takeoff
New, YVR-based, ultra low-cost, carrier aims to repatriate Canadian air travellers from cross-border flying

http://www.richmond-news.com/news/business-discount-airline-ready-for-takeoff-1.1770006

Valley_Refugee
Feb 23, 2015, 11:54 PM
Forget Bellingham: Best flight deals take off out of Vancouver these days

http://www.theprovince.com/Forget+Bellingham+Best+flight+deals+take+Vancouver+these+days/10830645/story.html

Klazu
Feb 24, 2015, 12:33 AM
Very knowledgeable people in the comments section. :haha:

excel
Feb 24, 2015, 7:19 AM
Ya those comments were hard to read.

Vancity
Feb 25, 2015, 12:47 AM
anyone know of the developments of the outlet mall out there near YVR?

Klazu
Feb 25, 2015, 2:52 AM
I drove around the outlet mall a week ago (there is a new road around the mall). It was close to midnight, so it was pitch black dark, but it looked like they still have a long way to go. The surrounding roads are there, but the buildings only have some exteriors up so far.

Zassk
Feb 25, 2015, 6:18 PM
They are in the process of putting the roof on the mall right now. Most of the architectural features and layout are visible. I would guess that there is close to a year's worth of interior work still to be done.

It does look fairly interesting... certainly more so than what we've seen of the Tsawwassen Mills project.

Now that the mall has actually taken shape, the distance from Templeton Station looks much closer than it seemed in diagrams. The mall and station aren't integrated, but the walking distance is probably in line with other malls that have transit stations.

There's a pile of sand closer to Arthur Laing, which I assume is for the phase 2 that has been fast-tracked.

phesto
Feb 25, 2015, 8:31 PM
The goal was to have the mall ready to allow tenants to start interior improvements in June 2015...hard to tell if it's still on track for that timeline.

trofirhen
Feb 26, 2015, 12:09 AM
Any updates on the TWOV facility? I understood it was to become operational this spring. Correct me if I'm wrong.

zahav
Feb 26, 2015, 5:43 AM
Small update on the transborder front for summer. Alaska Airlines has upgauged their morning LAX departure to a 737-900, the largest plane in their fleet. They have also transferred one of their afternoon Seattle Horizon DH4 flights to an Alaska 737-800. It's positive news, everyone thought Alaska was having a rough time at YVR because of the increased competition (and maybe still are, who knows..). It's reassuring that instead of pulling more flights, they are upgrading the LAX flight and making one the Seattle flights a full mainline (and on a -800 at that, also one of their largest planes). Good news :)

Johnny Aussie
Feb 26, 2015, 10:00 PM
According to airlineroute.net Korean Air will:

1) introduce the 777-300ER on the YVR-ICN route from 29 March gradually replacing the current 777-200ER until 29 June
2) continue with daily 744 for the summer season from 29 June
3) maintain daily 777-200ER in the winter scheds 2015-2016 up from 5 weekly this winter.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/02/26/ke-yvr-s15

excel
Feb 26, 2015, 11:17 PM
That's good news.

Are the AC equipment changes from 767 - 787 a decrease in overall capacity like JAL's was?

trofirhen
Feb 26, 2015, 11:37 PM
And... Wow... this summer Enerjet will have not one.. But TWO weekly flights from YVR to YYC. With the weekly flights also offered to CUN and PVR, and now YYZ, you could almost call YVR a hub for Enerjet at 5 flights per week.
Were you being sarcastic?