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Large Cat
Jul 10, 2015, 7:16 AM
Sign :(
The traffic jam that caused flight delays.
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.2462157.1436478415!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_960/image.jpg
Source: CTV News (http://bc.ctvnews.ca/flights-delayed-after-outlet-mall-shoppers-jam-traffic-near-yvr-1.2462153)

Lol:haha: If it's like that tomorrow I'll be biking past it with glee.

st7860
Jul 10, 2015, 12:29 PM
Templeton station will finally be used Heavily too

trofirhen
Jul 10, 2015, 1:54 PM
Not the greatest source for this, but I haven't noticed it being mentioned that Emirates is bumping Seattle to twice daily. Quite a nod for Seattle.

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/07/emirates-increases-canadian-west-coast-service-to-dubai/

I've actually been hearing radio ads from Emirates lately, advertising the route. They mentioned twice-daily flights to Dubai "and beyond". Thought it was interesting.
Can anyone in marketing or engineering or passenger sales tell me the likely scenario for YVR IF one of the M3 (Qatar or Emirates, Etihad) was given Vancouver landing rights.
I hear so much naysaying about it. What would happen? Current European flights cannibalized? India snarled up? (we've ben waiting on that one for a long time, and it's quicker to go over the Pacific, anyway).
What effect, if extrapolating the situation outward by ten years, for example, would come about? People say we need to keep the M3 out, to do do "what is best" for Canadians.
OK fine. What is best? And what is the REAL snag with the M3?
Thank you for your time and understanding with this question.

Cage
Jul 10, 2015, 6:21 PM
Can anyone in marketing or engineering or passenger sales tell me the likely scenario for YVR IF one of the M3 (Qatar or Emirates, Etihad) was given Vancouver landing rights.
I hear so much naysaying about it. What would happen? Current European flights cannibalized? India snarled up? (we've ben waiting on that one for a long time, and it's quicker to go over the Pacific, anyway).
What effect, if extrapolating the situation outward by ten years, for example, would come about? People say we need to keep the M3 out, to do do "what is best" for Canadians.
OK fine. What is best? And what is the REAL snag with the M3?
Thank you for your time and understanding with this question.


The snag with the ME3 is prefer to operate to destinations with full Open Skies include at least 5 or freedom rights. Once ME3 gets unrestricted rights, they exploit to full potential by bringing in large aircraft and using beyond traffic rights that are available.

To further distill the first question, one must not ask about YVR access rights but rather access rights to Canada by the ME3. Because the ME3 will not accept anything less than full openskies, we must assume the government has granted them unrestricted access to Canada, although its also safe to assume the ME3 do not have access to 5th freedom rights to or out of Canada (EK can do YYZ-DXB daily, but not YYZ-LHR-DXB with ability to take pax YYZ-LHR).

The first thing ME3 would do is operate out of YYZ on daily or greater than daily basis. This would seriously impact YVR connection traffic to Asia to the point that some YVR-Asia services might cease to operate.

Second thing EK would do is operate daily or double daily services YVR-DXB with the A380. SEA cannot handle the A380, which is the only reason EK has 2x daily 77W services. YVR would likely pick up traffic from SEA in this scenario.

Third impact is pull down or pull out of services by AF, BA, and LH LH would likely pull out of MUC and give FRA over to AC. AF is gone in favour of all traffic going onto KL through AMS. BA would likely reduce services through smaller aircraft.

Its also entirely possible that WS widebody pulls into town and AC enhances rouge 763 flights to Europe and northern Asia. These operations are least impacted by a major push by the ME3.

Transborder will reduce slightly as the US3 pull down flights that are no longer profitable because the traffic now flows over the ME3. expect DL and AA to pull out of their recent additions to YVR (LAX and SEA).

WarrenC12
Jul 10, 2015, 7:35 PM
What a joke. Who's paying for this circus? Flights delayed?!

This is only a taste of what we'll see in Tsawassen.

SFUVancouver
Jul 10, 2015, 8:27 PM
What a joke. Who's paying for this circus? Flights delayed?!

This is only a taste of what we'll see in Tsawassen.

Definitely a case of being a victim of one's own success. I have a hunch that we won't see any ongoing traffic issues as a result of the Outlet Mall. This was an opening-day display of irrational exuberance, with a lot of people likely thinking that there would be freebie give-aways or opening day specials on the opening day, which are not uncommon for the opening of a new retail development.

As for who is paying for it, do you mean the project itself or the cost of congestion yesterday? McArthurGlen is the developer/operator, so they put up the capital, and it is a joint venture with YVR, who get half the revenue and put in the upfront infrastructure.

One flight was delayed, to the best of my knowledge, which isn't good, but hardly "the airport is shut down!" that was trending on social media.

WarrenC12
Jul 10, 2015, 8:43 PM
One flight was delayed, to the best of my knowledge, which isn't good, but hardly "the airport is shut down!" that was trending on social media.

I meant for the hassle and flight delays. If it was truly 1 flight, no big deal.

I would hope for some better traffic separation if possible. I guess we will see what happens as time goes on.

SFUVancouver
Jul 10, 2015, 8:51 PM
I meant for the hassle and flight delays. If it was truly 1 flight, no big deal.

I would hope for some better traffic separation if possible. I guess we will see what happens as time goes on.

I'm sure more than a few people had an unwelcome surprise and just barely made their flights, and if this does happen with any regularity, the airport will have to seriously look at roadway improvements, but I think this was a one-day black swan event.

I understand that the airport did have a traffic management plan, and there were signs up saying outlet mall traffic keep right, but there were no police on hand to enforce this, and (I'm being delicate here) it is not terribly surprising that people were ignoring this and trying to jump the queue by trying to merge into the right lane at the last moment.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 10, 2015, 9:35 PM
^^^^
Reminds me of what happened when Krispy Kremes first opened in the Seattle area.... Interstates backed up for miles.... Ah yes the crazy consumer... "I have to be the first to see it!"

In other news... I expect Westjet will be announcing its winter scheds fairly soon. The second daily seasonal YVR-PSP flight has just been moved from the morning to early afternoon. Last winter the two flights left within 90 mins of each other.

Klazu
Jul 10, 2015, 9:39 PM
Ha, didn't know that there is a Krispy Kreme in Seattle. Not worth driving there though, as there is one much closer to us in Delta. I quite often make my way via Delta to pick up some donuts from there. :)

People are the same everywhere. Also Los Angeles went bananas when Dunkin' Donuts there (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlAhiA5wehw). Silly people. :haha:

Johnny Aussie
Jul 10, 2015, 9:50 PM
Ha, didn't know that there is a Krispy Kreme in Seattle. Not worth driving there though, as there is one much closer to us in Delta. I quite often make my way via Delta to pick up some donuts from there. :)

People are the same everywhere. Also Los Angeles went bananas when Dunkin' Donuts there (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlAhiA5wehw). Silly people. :haha:

They've even found their way downunder. When they first opened in Sydney it was not uncommon to have multiple passengers carrying on 2-3 tray boxes and straight into the overhead bins! I don't think I was on a flight ever between SYD and MEL without a few pax carrying boxes until we were so lucky enough to get them in MEL too (smirk). I still don't think I've had even one here.

tayser
Jul 11, 2015, 1:14 AM
I'm a bit surprised they are starting the flight in June. Wouldn't that be the slowest time of year for Canada-Australia traffic?

Think in reverse - colder Australia heading to the warmer Northern Hemisphere.

New Zealand is the only country which sees large shifts in capacity through the winter (June-August) and Summer (December-February) months to/from Australia because we're in the same climatic zone (save for a few extra flights going to NZ ski fields in winter, there's always large capacity / seasonal increases between Australia and NZ ports over the summer months -QF, NZ, VA all play the musical chairs game at this time of year).

S.E. Asia where there are masses of flights is hot year round and capacity generally will stay the same save for specific holiday peaks (Christmas/AU summer school holidays (January))

Europe is only reached by stopovers in Asia or Middle East and therefore the capacity/frequency stays the same as those carriers are funnelling passengers from all over their networks, not just AU/NZ, to get to European destinations via the mega hubs of Dubai, Singapore, KL, Bangkok and Hong Kong.

North American flights sometimes see seasonal increases over Christmas/AU summer school holidays but generally capacity stays the same because North American travellers come here in our summer, we go there in your summer.

There's generally a short weather equilibrium between AU and North America/Europe for two weeks in March/April and September/October which perfectly coincide with the shoulder periods where airfrares are cheaper - its the best time to do the long-haul (20 hours) trips.

tayser
Jul 11, 2015, 1:21 AM
Unfortunately, no the connection process is not easier in BNE compared to SYD.

The problem with Australian connections is the propensity to have separate International and Domestic terminals. In SYD this adds at least 20-30 minutes and a lot of walking bus and walking to the connection.

BNE connections will be less cumbersome simply because the terminals are smaller, but all pax will still have to walk -> Bus -> walk.

Of major Australian airports (SYD, MEL, ADL, PER, BNE, CNS) only MEL and ADL have connected terminals.

Yep and with AC flying to BNE it still doesn't make getting on Air Canada's flights from MEL (with the QF interline that connects you to SYD and will no doubt connect you to BNE when it launches) any more attractive.

The best way to get to Canada by avoiding the US is still with Air New Zealand via Auckland from Melbourne - You do all the outbound passport control/international stuff in Melbourne and fly into and out of the same terminal at Auckland and only have to pass through transit check rather than domestic flight from MEL to SYD/BNE, transfer between their Domestic/International terminals, do outbound passport control then get on Air Canada up to Vancouver.

In saying that, the outbound (MEL-SYD/BNE-international destination) via SYD/BNE (to any connecting flight) is generally "less bad" than the inbound (International destination-SYD/BNE-MEL).

Johnny Aussie
Jul 11, 2015, 1:56 AM
The best way to get to Canada by avoiding the US is still with Air New Zealand via Auckland from Melbourne - You do all the outbound passport control/international stuff in Melbourne and fly into and out of the same terminal at Auckland and only have to pass through transit check rather than domestic flight from MEL to SYD/BNE, transfer between their Domestic/International terminals, do outbound passport control then get on Air Canada up to Vancouver.

:tup:

I used to fly AC a lot but now not very often so the chances of me using this new flight is remote. But at least yet another Star Alliance option from MEL to YVR with a bit of Virgin Australia for the domestic portion. MEL-SYD-YVR is actually 12 miles shorter than MEL-BNE-YVR.... Both require a terminal change though... Why I now prefer NZ via AKL and I find NZ service better than AC now.

Going to give UA another chance in a few weeks :) If I didn't have to actually go to LA I would still prefer AKL.
Also, I am going to give the new CA MEL-PEK nonstop a go at the end of the year when we go to Canada at XMas... Hoping the MEL-PEK flights move up to a 77W like the PEK-YVR flights. Avoiding the stop in PVG is a good move by Air China.
For my previous domestic legs to/from SYD to pick up AC to/from YVR I always booked VA as a separate ticket. Too bad AC still uses QF for its domestic tags. It cost me a bit more but took it for the privileges I have on VA. This of course meant all my trips to and from YVR would have been statistically recorded as me originating/terminating in SYD.

trofirhen
Jul 12, 2015, 2:08 PM
The snag with the ME3 is prefer to operate to destinations with full Open Skies include at least 5 or freedom rights. Once ME3 gets unrestricted rights, they exploit to full potential by bringing in large aircraft and using beyond traffic rights that are available.
.................................
Transborder will reduce slightly as the US3 pull down flights that are no longer profitable because the traffic now flows over the ME3. expect DL and AA to pull out of their recent additions to YVR (LAX and SEA)...............
Thank you again, Cage, for this possible explanatory scenario.
My next question might be: what effect will Emirates presence have on SEA-TAC?
I wonder if this may drag down other international routes out of there, as well. It'll be interesting to watch how it all unfolds.

YVR Bruce
Jul 13, 2015, 4:19 AM
I am looking to see how the oil markets might be affecting YYC, for comparison with YVR this year.

I see YYC uses a measure that includes "non-revenue passengers". Not sure what that is. Also it's not clear whether they otherwise follow the ACI-standard measure of transfers counted as one (vs 2 separate arrival and departure counts).

http://www.yyc.com/Portals/0/MEDIA/Media-PassengerStats/br_paxtotal.pdf

Can anyone chime in with info on this? e.g. is their 15m in 2014 comparable on the same basis to YVR's 19m?

SpongeG
Jul 13, 2015, 6:17 AM
They've even found their way downunder. When they first opened in Sydney it was not uncommon to have multiple passengers carrying on 2-3 tray boxes and straight into the overhead bins! I don't think I was on a flight ever between SYD and MEL without a few pax carrying boxes until we were so lucky enough to get them in MEL too (smirk). I still don't think I've had even one here.

krispy kreme is opening in south africa this year

you need to have one now, they are amazing

i wonder how long the madness of the outlet mall will last, the seattle outlet mall is always a nightmare, long backups on the off ramps onto 1-5 and parking is a nightmare - pretty much everytime i have gone on a weekend down there, weekdays less so but still always busy

SpongeG
Jul 13, 2015, 6:20 AM
I am looking to see how the oil markets might be affecting YYC, for comparison with YVR this year.

I see YYC uses a measure that includes "non-revenue passengers". Not sure what that is. Also it's not clear whether they otherwise follow the ACI-standard measure of transfers counted as one (vs 2 separate arrival and departure counts).

http://www.yyc.com/Portals/0/MEDIA/Media-PassengerStats/br_paxtotal.pdf

Can anyone chime in with info on this? e.g. is their 15m in 2014 comparable on the same basis to YVR's 19m?

could non-revenue be for private charter flights? a lot of oil companies fly their employees up north on private charter flights, usually they us a smaller terminal as opposed to the main one, they then have to transfer to a commerical flight at the main terminal if they are going on elsewhere

casper
Jul 13, 2015, 6:34 AM
I am looking to see how the oil markets might be affecting YYC, for comparison with YVR this year.

I see YYC uses a measure that includes "non-revenue passengers". Not sure what that is. Also it's not clear whether they otherwise follow the ACI-standard measure of transfers counted as one (vs 2 separate arrival and departure counts).

http://www.yyc.com/Portals/0/MEDIA/Media-PassengerStats/br_paxtotal.pdf

Can anyone chime in with info on this? e.g. is their 15m in 2014 comparable on the same basis to YVR's 19m?

I would expect "non-revenue" to include airline employees. Airlines have deals with each other that permit airline staff to fly on passes where they travel standby and only pay taxes and/or a nominal fee.

Not certain how loyalty program passengers are counted, i.e. traveling on an aeroplan reward ticket. Given the reward program charge all the airport taxes on rewards tickets I would assume as far as the airport is concerned they are revenue passengers.

Passengers out of the FBOs are another possibility.

casper
Jul 13, 2015, 6:37 AM
krispy kreme is opening in south africa this year

you need to have one now, they are amazing

i wonder how long the madness of the outlet mall will last, the seattle outlet mall is always a nightmare, long backups on the off ramps onto 1-5 and parking is a nightmare - pretty much everytime i have gone on a weekend down there, weekdays less so but still always busy

Does not look good for catching the BC Ferries when the one by the terminal opens. Hopefully between the two we start to hit outlet mall saturation and it goes back to normal.

I don't understand why these things need to be built next to major transportation hubs with fairly limited road access.

CanSpice
Jul 13, 2015, 4:23 PM
What a joke. Who's paying for this circus? Flights delayed?!

This is only a taste of what we'll see in Tsawassen.

Don't even think of trying to catch a flight on Boxing Day.

Cage
Jul 13, 2015, 5:07 PM
..............
Thank you again, Cage, for this possible explanatory scenario.
My next question might be: what effect will Emirates presence have on SEA-TAC?
I wonder if this may drag down other international routes out of there, as well. It'll be interesting to watch how it all unfolds.

SEA with daily EK has all ready experienced a few airlines pull out. AF left while DL started this points to there not being enough profit or pax for AF to continue the route. SAS used to have a nonstop to SEA, but that's gone.

It would be interesting if the next to go is LH and/or BA. Both airlines need to feed their global hubs to make a go of the route. Additionally the problem for BA is DL competing service to LHR. If DL's desire to make SEA into a small international hub comes true, then BA might leave as they get no feed at SEA, have a non alliance competitor (DL) with equivalent product and have ME3 carrier siphoning off longhaul connections.

The next thing SEA might see is Asian airlines choosing not to service the city because EK is siphoning off longhaul connection traffic to India.

s211
Jul 13, 2015, 5:18 PM
Don't even think of trying to catch a flight on Boxing Day.

Or even the few days before Christmas, when you will have the perfect storm of high travel season and last minute Christmas shoppers.

trofirhen
Jul 13, 2015, 5:51 PM
SEA with daily EK has all ready experienced a few airlines pull out. AF left while DL started this points to there not being enough profit or pax for AF to continue the route. SAS used to have a nonstop to SEA, but that's gone.

It would be interesting if the next to go is LH and/or BA. Both airlines need to feed their global hubs to make a go of the route. Additionally the problem for BA is DL competing service to LHR. If DL's desire to make SEA into a small international hub comes true, then BA might leave as they get no feed at SEA, have a non alliance competitor (DL) with equivalent product and have ME3 carrier siphoning off longhaul connections.

The next thing SEA might see is Asian airlines choosing not to service the city because EK is siphoning off longhaul connection traffic to India.
Hm. Not be be unkind or opportunistic, but this might give YVR certain advantages in the global scheme of things - speaking competitively, of course.
If the possible scenario follows through as you say it might, and LH/BA pull out, this would leave SEA-TAC mostly up to Delta to remain viable.
At any rate, some large US carrier would need to make a hub out of SEA if the foreign carriers pull out.
YVR would remain what Craig Richmond referred to as an "open sourced hub," with a goodly number of foreign carriers. A stark contrast to the Seattle future/possible scenario.

twoNeurons
Jul 13, 2015, 8:57 PM
This outlet mall has me thinking... Is this YVR trying to turn the airport into a more desirable stopover location? Obviously, their bread and butter will be locals, but I wonder how much in-transit traffic they're expecting.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but the train is free between Templeton and YVR, right?

deasine
Jul 13, 2015, 9:26 PM
This outlet mall has me thinking... Is this YVR trying to turn the airport into a more desirable stopover location? Obviously, their bread and butter will be locals, but I wonder how much in-transit traffic they're expecting.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but the train is free between Templeton and YVR, right?

It is free, but I think it's important to remember that the outlets aren't necessarily built for passengers in-transit. If these were the exclusive audience they were targeting, it would make sense to locate the outlet closer to the airport by the current long-term lots.

The point of the development is to use surplus airport lands to make revenue. The location targets locals and travellers, but also passengers with long-transits should they wish to exit the secured area.

LeftCoaster
Jul 14, 2015, 1:10 AM
Was at YVR last week and noticed another 747-8, this one however was of the freight variety belonging to Cathay Cargo. Looks like it will be a more permanent fixture though as when I left later in the week another was there.

So there will be 747-8s flying into Vancouver after all! :D

Bonus youtube vid of one landing a couple of weeks ago:

lfMIcihQPOs

Cage
Jul 14, 2015, 1:18 AM
The point of the development is to use surplus airport lands to make revenue. The location targets locals and travellers, but also passengers with long-transits should they wish to exit the secured area.

Further to your point, in Calgary the airport authority is one of the cities largest land developers and they are making a lot of money doing this ancillary business. YVRAA just wants a piece of the pie.

Edmonton airports is launching a similar retail land development initiatives, but on a much larger scale than YVR. YVR will have very high return on investment compared to YEG because there is very little retail complex competition given the population base. The big money would be YVR market with the YEG land bank.

casper
Jul 14, 2015, 1:47 AM
Hm. Not be be unkind or opportunistic, but this might give YVR certain advantages in the global scheme of things - speaking competitively, of course.
If the possible scenario follows through as you say it might, and LH/BA pull out, this would leave SEA-TAC mostly up to Delta to remain viable.
At any rate, some large US carrier would need to make a hub out of SEA if the foreign carriers pull out.
YVR would remain what Craig Richmond referred to as an "open sourced hub," with a goodly number of foreign carriers. A stark contrast to the Seattle future/possible scenario.

I am not certain Europe from Seattle is all that important to Delta. you could call it a Hub, but I think Delta's goal is more to turn it into a gateway city to Asia. If Paris, Amsterdam and London don't make money I could see Delta drop one or more of them.

Back in the 80's I BA use to do Heathrow-Vancouver-Seattle-Heathrow. They needed both cities to fill a 747. The could go back to that if they still want to server Seattle but can't fill sufficient seats.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 14, 2015, 2:31 AM
Was at YVR last week and noticed another 747-8, this one however was of the freight variety belonging to Cathay Cargo. Looks like it will be a more permanent fixture though as when I left later in the week another was there.

So there will be 747-8s flying into Vancouver after all! :D

CX have been flying in 748 freighters for a couple of years now and more recently KE as well.

As for the outlet mall, the land closer to the long term parking is earmarked for future airport related development. I bet Templeton is about as close as they could get.

When I visit BC and AB in August, visiting this outlet mall won't be high on my list of things to do.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 14, 2015, 3:01 AM
Deleted. Wrong thread.

trofirhen
Jul 14, 2015, 12:24 PM
I am not certain Europe from Seattle is all that important to Delta. you could call it a Hub, but I think Delta's goal is more to turn it into a gateway city to Asia. If Paris, Amsterdam and London don't make money I could see Delta drop one or more of them.

Back in the 80's I BA use to do Heathrow-Vancouver-Seattle-Heathrow. They needed both cities to fill a 747. The could go back to that if they still want to server Seattle but can't fill sufficient seats.
For Delta to drop eventual European routes, is fine, if that's what they want. Seattle pasengers might come to Vancouver to fly out on on of our 4 European airlines.
Though I think they'll keep Icelandair, as it sort of replaces SAS, with Seattle's large Scandinavian market.
If Delta wants to make Seattle an Asia hub, it would seem to me that they might have a fair bit of catching up if they want to make an Asia footprint as big, or bigger, than YVR.
Or am I wrong?

trofirhen
Jul 14, 2015, 12:34 PM
Further to your point, in Calgary the airport authority is one of the cities largest land developers and they are making a lot of money doing this ancillary business. YVRAA just wants a piece of the pie.

Edmonton airports is launching a similar retail land development initiatives, but on a much larger scale than YVR. YVR will have very high return on investment compared to YEG because there is very little retail complex competition given the population base. The big money would be YVR market with the YEG land bank.
Would YVR, but with a large land bank, as at YEG, include expanding it into a regional mall? The "Airport Mall," for example. (?)

deasine
Jul 15, 2015, 1:33 AM
Further to your point, in Calgary the airport authority is one of the cities largest land developers and they are making a lot of money doing this ancillary business. YVRAA just wants a piece of the pie.

Edmonton airports is launching a similar retail land development initiatives, but on a much larger scale than YVR. YVR will have very high return on investment compared to YEG because there is very little retail complex competition given the population base. The big money would be YVR market with the YEG land bank.

Bare in mind though retail expenditures in Alberta, notably more in Calgary than Edmonton however, are relatively high for a smaller population, which is due to the high average income levels of Albertans. Results in 2014 will probably be different due to the economic slowdown (not that we can get any good accurate data anymore with the removal of mandatory census...).

As you mentioned, other airports in Canada have also engaged in this but in other forms of real estate. I'm not in any position to disclose further information of which ones and what forms, but these types of land uses have also been discussed in this thread.

Hourglass
Jul 15, 2015, 4:31 AM
Bare in mind though retail expenditures in Alberta, notably more in Calgary than Edmonton however, are relatively high for a smaller population, which is due to the high average income levels of Albertans. Results in 2014 will probably be different due to the economic slowdown (not that we can get any good accurate data anymore with the removal of mandatory census...).

As you mentioned, other airports in Canada have also engaged in this but in other forms of real estate. I'm not in any position to disclose further information of which ones and what forms, but these types of land uses have also been discussed in this thread.

It's actually quite common internationally as well. Many examples of airports engaging in non-aviation development to maximize revenues and turn the airport into a 'destination.' Hong Kong and Singapore are good examples, where the airport isn't just a place to catch your flight, but see a movie (the IMAX in HK airport is great, BTW), play golf, attend a convention/exhibition or shop. Seoul Incheon is developing a huge entertainment complex and casino aimed primarily at visiting mainland Chinese tourists.

Klazu
Jul 16, 2015, 2:59 AM
I had some time today, so I rode my bike to the new outlet and back. My apologies for the picture quality, as I only had my phone with me.

Here's the Phase 2 area from Arthur Lainge Bridge.

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet_takaata.jpg

Signs to the outlet are good.

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet4.jpg

From Templeton Station.

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet_templetonista.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet2.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet1.jpg

Main entrance

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet3.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet6.jpg

Map of the area.

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet5.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet8.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet_aukio6.jpg

The famous Coach line. Still busy.

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet_coach.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet7.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet_aukio7.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet_aukio1.jpg

Don't ask me why, byt there is a first nations section just outside of the outlet.

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet9.jpg

Kids play area.

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet_leikkialue.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet_leikkialue2.jpg

I saw some people with luggage with them, so maybe the strategy to lure transit passangers is working? :shrug:

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet_aukio8.jpg

Art piece

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet_aukio5.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet_taideteos.jpg

Fountain square

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet_aukio4.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet_aukio3.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/mcarthur_glen_outlet_aukio2.jpg

Overall it is your typical outlet. It looks nice for an outlet, but I was surprised how almost half of the stores are not yet open. There are dozens of store fronts that sau "coming soon" and "opening soon". There is really very little to visit yet.

I would also like to see some more food options at location. There is only Cafe Artigiano, Japadog stand and a Japanese and Chinese restaurants opening soon. Can't remember if there was also an Italian restaurant going to open.

Overall the place was very busy for a Wednesday with parking lot at least half full. 80% of visitors were Asian people.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 16, 2015, 4:01 AM
great pics.
Ok I may just have to visit now.

dleung
Jul 16, 2015, 4:21 AM
They should've kept Fantasy Gardens, instead of this plastic embarrassment that everyone arriving in Vancouver will have to see.

WarrenC12
Jul 16, 2015, 4:27 AM
Wow, this is certainly bringing upscale suburban USA to Richmond. I've been to countless number of these places in my US travels, this is no different.

Also, Klazu takes better phone pictures than I can with my wife's DSLR. :worship:

casper
Jul 16, 2015, 5:02 AM
For Delta to drop eventual European routes, is fine, if that's what they want. Seattle pasengers might come to Vancouver to fly out on on of our 4 European airlines.
Though I think they'll keep Icelandair, as it sort of replaces SAS, with Seattle's large Scandinavian market.
If Delta wants to make Seattle an Asia hub, it would seem to me that they might have a fair bit of catching up if they want to make an Asia footprint as big, or bigger, than YVR.
Or am I wrong?

I think what Delta wants is to make money. If they can fill the aircraft from Seattle at a profit more than they can make deploying the aircraft somewhere else

I don't think they are trying to compete with Vancouver. They are more focused on meeting the US market needs. They are also reducing the Narita hub.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 16, 2015, 10:01 AM
Wow, this is certainly bringing upscale suburban USA to Richmond. I've been to countless number of these places in my US travels, this is no different.

Also, Klazu takes better phone pictures than I can with my wife's DSLR. :worship:

No kidding. If he didn't say he took them with his phone I would have guessed something a bit more DSLR-ish. Although the iPhone 6 is getting pretty damn good quality for a phone camera.

Klazu
Jul 16, 2015, 6:27 PM
Thanks guys! :)

One can easily tell from the lack of color dynamics that they are no DSLR photos, but I have to agree that I was also pleasantly surprised how they turned out after some adjusting in Photoshop. Adjusting is something that one always needs to do no matter if the photos are taken with a professional DSLR or not. One can improve his photos SO much by doing some basic post-processing. ;)

Those photos were taken with a Nokia Lumia 1020 (http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/?p=2522).

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/lumia1020_2.jpg

twoNeurons
Jul 16, 2015, 11:15 PM
Yeah, the Nokia Lumia 1020 gives the iPhone a run for its money. Great camera.

SKYSTHELIMIT
Jul 17, 2015, 12:13 AM
I would imagine the folks with the luggage are simply shoppers who find it easier to transport their purchases in a wheeled bag as opposed to carrying. But they could be travelers as well.

Klazu
Jul 17, 2015, 1:05 AM
Yeah, the Nokia Lumia 1020 gives the iPhone a run for its money. Great camera.

I know this is offtopic, but I have to add that considering that Lumia is already two years old, it is still pretty good. Although I have to say that iPhone 6 handles contrasting lighting conditions much better than Lumia and is so much faster. Plus the Panorama feature is very good.

Everything always gets better with newer models...

[/offtopic]

Klazu
Jul 17, 2015, 5:03 AM
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/07/vancouver-airport-outlet-mall-sees-record-breaking-160000-visitors-on-opening-weekend/

160 000 people visited the outlet during first weekend. 45 000 people on the opening day. Seems that people have been loathing for an outlet.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 17, 2015, 7:09 AM
Over the last couple of days the following updates noted:

1) KE reducing YVR-ICN to 5 weekly for the month of November. Last winter they reduced to 5 weekly for the entire winter. So far they are daily for the rest of the winter scheds. Never surprised to see reductions in November. Slowest month of the year for overseas travel.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/07/16/ke-w15update2/

2) CI reducing YVR-TPE to 5 weekly for the winter sched but will be operated by 744s this winter. Originally scheduled daily A340 but that is normally reduced to 5 - 6 weekly as in previous years. This route flip flops between 343s and 744s. Overall a capacity increase as last winter was 6 weekly 343s.

Just a matter of time before this switches to an A350!

http://airlineroute.net/2015/07/17/ci-yvr-w15update2/

3) AC has opened reservation for the new YVR-BNE route starting next June.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/07/17/ac-yvrbne-jun16/

Johnny Aussie
Jul 20, 2015, 12:13 PM
Once weekly effective 1 January

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1007

Also looks like YMM, YQR and YXE are going year-round. Also additional flying to YXT and YYJ. But YXJ being scaled back to once daily. YXS will be only four daily through mid February but the fifth daily is added back mid Feb.

Overall, YVR Westjet operations (including Encore) will exceed 60 daily flights next winter. Including 98 weekly transborder flights.

trofirhen
Jul 20, 2015, 11:06 PM
Great to see Westjet gaining so much muscle and range.(I hope that weekly YVR-MCO flight becomes more than once a week!)
Despite the complaints heard about it, particularly mediocre customer service, it seems to be grabbing more and more North American (and a little other) market share.

The question: How much competion does this pose for Air Canada, and if I've read magazine articles correctly, push Air Canada into depending on its overseas routes for revenue, as was posted in Maclean's, the Globe & Mail, and other sources.

Is this the case? I do not know, so, please, I'm asking you people who do know. Thank you.:)
There might be sort of a "watershed" moment building up. Or perhaps not??

Johnny Aussie
Jul 22, 2015, 1:13 AM
Looks like AC is returing to the YVR-CUN route late in the winter for about eight weeks.

Mondays from 15 Feb to 18 April 2016 on rouge 763s.

AC 1782 departs YVR 0735 arrives CUN 1520
AC 1783 departs CUN 1740 arrives YVR 2130

Johnny Aussie
Jul 24, 2015, 12:58 PM
Stats Canada has just released the 2014 Canadian Airport cargo stats.

YVR had by far the largest growth of the major airports in terms of total tonnage increase and % increase. YVR was up over 22,000 tonnes and up about 11.4%. YYZ was the only other major airport showing significant growth. YYZ was up over 10,000 tonnes. YUL and YMX were the only airports to record declines. YHZ overtook YEG to be in 8th place.

Here is the list (total tonnes for 2014):

YYZ 356,448 up ~ 10,100
YVR 217,201 up over 22,000 and 11.4%
YHM 88,983 up ~ 2,400
YYC 84,994 up ~ 1,400
YUL 76,748 down ~ 200
YMX 64,148 down ~ 100
YWG 61,228 up ~ 900

....then quite a big gap for the rest of the top 10.....

YHZ 28,688 up ~ 1,100
YEG 27,624 up ~ 400
YQM 21,262 up ~ 1,500

Tables can be found here...

http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a26?lang=eng&retrLang=eng&id=4010045&paSer=&pattern=&stByVal=1&p1=1&p2=31&tabMode=dataTable&csid=

Large Cat
Jul 25, 2015, 4:38 AM
Some photos taken at the new mall!

Air China (?) 777

http://i.imgur.com/GjnPxue.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/yEvbIug.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WL6Do6y.jpg

Air Canada 787-8

http://i.imgur.com/UoAmfIJ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rlDcPKs.jpg

Johnny Aussie
Jul 25, 2015, 7:20 AM
^^ cool pics. Thanks.
This could be another good spotting location.
On my next visit in a couple of weeks be happy to let the shoppers shop can I can kick back and watch some birds land.

Yes, the first ones are Air China. Pretty soon to be double daily for the remainder of the summer.

TransitJack
Jul 26, 2015, 7:51 PM
^^ cool pics. Thanks.
This could be another good spotting location.
On my next visit in a couple of weeks be happy to let the shoppers shop can I can kick back and watch some birds land.

Yes, the first ones are Air China. Pretty soon to be double daily for the remainder of the summer.


Right? now you can get a good cup of coffee and a bench for plane spotting! Oh, and shopping too I guess ;)

Johnny Aussie
Jul 26, 2015, 8:21 PM
Just a couple of minor news items....

AC to rouge YVR-KOA effective 19th December.

I suppose this was inevitable.

http://www.aircanada.com/en/news/150723.html

BLI hurting big time with the weak CAD.

BLI passenger numbers down 14.5% YTD and down 30.6% in June alone.

https://www.biv.com/article/2015/7/low-canadian-dollar-hits-bellingham-airport-passen/

"T-shirts to Paradise."

This marketing campaign by YVR is aimed at "British Columbians to rediscover Asia as their next travel destination."

The article highlights the 134 weekly flights from YVR-Asia in the peak summer period.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1573085/yvr-s-t-shirts-to-paradise-campaign-connects-british-columbians-to-asia

http://www.tshirtstoparadise.ca/

I'll have to pick one up on my upcoming next visit.

YYCguys
Jul 26, 2015, 10:02 PM
...I would also like to see some more food options at location. There is only Cafe Artigiano, Japadog stand and a Japanese and Chinese restaurants opening soon. Can't remember if there was also an Italian restaurant going to open...

Japadog!!!!! Yay! I have yet to try it but heard it's great! As someone who pops in and out of YVR often but rarely makes it downtown, I'm happy to be able to try it close to the airport now!

Klazu
Jul 26, 2015, 10:57 PM
Yeah, give it a try. I haven't yet, as it seems to touristic thing to me (and I am also not a huge fan of hot dogs). :)

whatnext
Jul 27, 2015, 10:13 PM
I see YVR has almost overnight added an overflow parking lot for the outlet mall in between Grant McConachie Way and the Canada Line tracks.

I wonder how much a rush order on regrading, paving and painting cost? So did Macarthur Glen put up the money, or is that our AIF at work?

Zassk
Jul 27, 2015, 10:52 PM
I see YVR has almost overnight added an overflow parking lot for the outlet mall in between Grant McConachie Way and the Canada Line tracks.

I wonder how much a rush order on regrading, paving and painting cost? So did Macarthur Glen put up the money, or is that our AIF at work?

That new parking lot did go up pretty fast, but it was started long before the mall opened. It is the third parking lot built at Templeton Station in as many years.

Large Cat
Jul 27, 2015, 11:03 PM
I see YVR has almost overnight added an overflow parking lot for the outlet mall in between Grant McConachie Way and the Canada Line tracks.

I wonder how much a rush order on regrading, paving and painting cost? So did Macarthur Glen put up the money, or is that our AIF at work?

In my opinion this parking lot is hugely overkill and an unfortunate waste of the nice marshland by Templeton that has always brought a lot of birds. Like, it's seriously a HUGE amount of parking space, an unbelievable, Tsawwassen Mills level amount. They would have better spent their money giving people free Skytrain rides after purchasing something at the mall.

I also think they should have built the MacArthur Glen parking lot on the other side of the mall (closer to the Arthur Laing) so that the mall entrance could be closer to Templeton Station. Tourists are getting hella confused trying to find out how to walk there, even with the signs. I've helped several people every time I've gone there.

CareerShow
Jul 27, 2015, 11:33 PM
In my opinion this parking lot is hugely overkill and an unfortunate waste of the nice marshland by Templeton that has always brought a lot of birds. Like, it's seriously a HUGE amount of parking space, an unbelievable, Tsawwassen Mills level amount. They would have better spent their money giving people free Skytrain rides after purchasing something at the mall.

I also think they should have built the MacArthur Glen parking lot on the other side of the mall (closer to the Arthur Laing) so that the mall entrance could be closer to Templeton Station. Tourists are getting hella confused trying to find out how to walk there, even with the signs. I've helped several people every time I've gone there.
I think the parking is a good use of land. Firstly it can be used for parking for the mall and possibly the airport. The parking can also be used by commuters who don't want to be stuck driving into downtown Vancouver as the lot is very close to the sky train station.

moosejaw
Jul 28, 2015, 4:02 AM
Is parking free at the mall? Is it possible to leave your car there for the day and take the Skytrain to the terminal? Perhaps for same day travel?

stiffdeadman
Jul 28, 2015, 6:10 AM
BLI hurting big time with the weak CAD.

BLI passenger numbers down 14.5% YTD and down 30.6% in June alone.

https://www.biv.com/article/2015/7/low-canadian-dollar-hits-bellingham-airport-passen/


not surprised passenger numbers are down with frontier pulling out, and alaska mainline discontinuing all flights until november. they're supposed to restart one vegas and one hawaii flight at that time, but who knows if they will and how long they will last as the dollar is supposed to get even worse when the US Fed Bank raises interest rates in september. hopefully that lower parking rate in the A lot is in effect soon. i'm flying to san diego labor day weekend so it would be nice to have the cheaper rate.

trofirhen
Jul 28, 2015, 9:44 PM
BLI hurting big time with the weak CAD.

BLI passenger numbers down 14.5% YTD and down 30.6% in June alone.

https://www.biv.com/article/2015/7/low-canadian-dollar-hits-bellingham-airport-passen/


not surprised passenger numbers are down with frontier pulling out, and alaska mainline discontinuing all flights until november. ......... i'm flying to san diego labor day weekend so it would be nice to have the cheaper rate.

Graphic evidence of the dependency of BLI on the Canadian market. To get any of the Seattle market share, they'd be having to be offering some pretty good deals. Are they?
SEA and YVR will always be the major airports of the NW. YVR I'm sure will gradually evolve into that transit hub, and SEA will do whatever it's going to do, both as Delta Asia hub
and now with the presence of EK, perhaps a different airline / destination profile. But I don't think BLI can ever be a whole lot much more than the "Luton Airport" of the PNW.

rxp
Jul 28, 2015, 10:37 PM
when Compass goes online, There will be a $5 dollar surcharge added on, which is quite ridiculous...

Source: Buzzer Blog from Translink (http://buzzer.translink.ca/2015/07/the-low-down-on-sea-islands-5-return-addfare/)

casper
Jul 29, 2015, 4:28 AM
when Compass goes online, There will be a $5 dollar surcharge added on, which is quite ridiculous...

Source: Buzzer Blog from Translink (http://buzzer.translink.ca/2015/07/the-low-down-on-sea-islands-5-return-addfare/)

Silly move.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 29, 2015, 7:19 AM
http://airlineroute.net/2015/07/29/zx-hawaii-feb16/

From mid Feb to the end of the winter season (late April)...

AC increasing Hawaii to a three daily operation.

YVR-HNL from 7 to 9 weekly
YVR-OGG from 7 to 10 weekly
YVR-KOA from 1 to 2 weekly

Effectively rouge is adding a daily morning service to Hawaii (spread across the three destinations) in addition to the twin departures in the late afternoon.

That's almost 2,000 additional seats per week to Hawaii.

Along with Westjet, this will bring total YVR-Hawaii services to 62 flights per week. About 9 flights per day.

With the above... Plus... Aeromexico's new daily service, AC re-launching CUN, WS launching MCO, plus all of Sunwing and Air Transat's new offerings... there will be plenty of additional sun-seeker seats being offered from YVR this winter.

Zassk
Jul 29, 2015, 8:27 AM
I think the parking is a good use of land. Firstly it can be used for parking for the mall and possibly the airport. The parking can also be used by commuters who don't want to be stuck driving into downtown Vancouver as the lot is very close to the sky train station.

I think this new lot is for airport employees or something, not the mall. The airport has mentioned its goal of moving employee parking down the Canada Line to the outer stations like this (and, eventually, to a location at an off-island station).

Johnny Aussie
Jul 29, 2015, 8:54 AM
Whilst you were sleeping...

Are you all sitting down...

Daily BA A380 LHR-YVR effective 1 May 2016

http://airlineroute.net/2015/07/29/ba-yvr-s16update2/

This is HUGE news!

All the speculation as to who would be the first A380 service to YVR... BA is the winner.

And they are maintaing the 12 weekly summer schedule

I just knew something more had to happen for BA to drop from 12 weekly 744s to 12 weekly 772s.

So there you have it...

BA087 LHR1240 – 1400YVR 772 x23
BA085 LHR1715 – 1840YVR 388 D

BA086 YVR1755 – 1115+1LHR 772 x23
BA084 YVR2050 – 1400+1LHR 388 D

Capacity will now be greater than this summer. That's quite a lot of premium seats to fill though!

Hourglass
Jul 29, 2015, 12:32 PM
Whilst you were sleeping...

Are you all sitting down...

Daily BA A380 LHR-YVR effective 1 May 2016

http://airlineroute.net/2015/07/29/ba-yvr-s16update2/

This is HUGE news!

All the speculation as to who would be the first A380 service to YVR... BA is the winner.

And they are maintaing the 12 weekly summer schedule

I just knew something more had to happen for BA to drop from 12 weekly 744s to 12 weekly 772s.

So there you have it...

BA087 LHR1240 – 1400YVR 772 x23
BA085 LHR1715 – 1840YVR 388 D

BA086 YVR1755 – 1115+1LHR 772 x23
BA084 YVR2050 – 1400+1LHR 388 D

Capacity will now be greater than this summer. That's quite a lot of premium seats to fill though!

To say I'm gobsmacked by this news would be an understatement... Wow!

Flown on BA's A380 a number of times, and it's definitely an upgrade on their B744s

trofirhen
Jul 29, 2015, 1:06 PM
So now, YVR will join YYZ and YUL as the only airports in Canada with A380 service. Cool.... ( Your turn will come, Calgary .......) ;)
A small confusion on my part, though. Does this mean the other flight is deleted, so it's ONCE per day, or still twice daily in the week with a 777? Clarifications please?

Canadian74
Jul 29, 2015, 2:49 PM
Airlineroute now saying the 5 weekly 777 service is dropped. Only 7 weekly A380.

Canadian74
Jul 29, 2015, 2:50 PM
So now, YVR will join YYZ and YUL as the only airports in Canada with A380 service. Cool.... ( Your turn will come, Calgary .......) ;)
A small confusion on my part, though. Does this mean the other flight is deleted, so it's ONCE per day, or still twice daily in the week with a 777? Clarifications please?

I don't think YUL gets the A380 now. And YYZ is only 3 weekly.

Klazu
Jul 29, 2015, 2:58 PM
Haha, seems that I "called it" in June after which deasine confirmed it. :D Now for the latter part and seeing a LH fly a 747-8 in here. :)

Considering that BA has during summer two daily flights, would it possible for them to consider going in the future for a daily summer A380, rather than twice a day 777W? I think BA is our only hope for seeing a A380 ever and Lufthansa for 747-8 (nice video find, Leftcoaster!).

There's word an A380 will be making scheduled visits by British Airways coming next April. If any airline will fly an A380, I think BA is probably the most fitting as it already has 747s, occasionally at more than daily frequencies.

I just love how YVR is constantly surprising every one of us with its performance! It is crazy how much attention our small regional airport is getting from the world's largest airlines. :cheers:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/British_Airways_Airbus_A380-841_F-WWSK_PAS_2013_01.jpg/1024px-British_Airways_Airbus_A380-841_F-WWSK_PAS_2013_01.jpg

trofirhen
Jul 29, 2015, 3:40 PM
I don't think YUL gets the A380 now. And YYZ is only 3 weekly.
I thought Air France had (and has) 380 service YUL-CDG. This is the eighth largest air market out of Paris.
Also, doesn't YYZ have Emirates 3x a week, and Etihad 3x a week, using 380s? That would make six for Toronto. Hey, I'm not arguing, just asking.:)

connect2source
Jul 29, 2015, 3:43 PM
I'll be switching my allegiance to One World because of this as my Aeroplan option is the HD AC 77W sardine can. I hope AC responds to this by removing their torture device from YVR-LHR.

Denscity
Jul 29, 2015, 4:00 PM
:djparty:
:fireworks:

Vin
Jul 29, 2015, 4:25 PM
Nice to know Big Bird is finally landing in Vancouver, congratulations YVR!
However, we still need to wait till next spring.

Taken the Singapore Airlines A380 4 years ago for a flight to Melbourne , and it was amazing seeing the huge crowd of passengers at the waiting lounge of the Terminal preparing to board the giant.

More from Vancitybuzz:
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/07/british-airways-to-fly-airbus-a380-for-vancouver-service/

Canadian74
Jul 29, 2015, 5:55 PM
I thought Air France had (and has) 380 service YUL-CDG. This is the eighth largest air market out of Paris.
Also, doesn't YYZ have Emirates 3x a week, and Etihad 3x a week, using 380s? That would make six for Toronto. Hey, I'm not arguing, just asking.:)

I think Air France stopped flying the A380 to YUL quite a while ago. Currently it's a mix of A340/777

And only Emirates is using the A380 to YYZ at 3 weekly, Etihad is a 777-300ER

Klazu
Jul 29, 2015, 6:58 PM
I think Air France stopped flying the A380 to YUL quite a while ago. Currently it's a mix of A340/777

And only Emirates is using the A380 to YYZ at 3 weekly, Etihad is a 777-300ER

So in other words Vancouver will be a leading Canadian A380 destination. Not bad! :tup:

"Surprisingly" nobody on the Canada forum is recognizing this news. :rolleyes:

deasine
Jul 29, 2015, 7:07 PM
Not to put out the fire with water, but this decision by BA is less about growth specifically at YVR and more about freeing up two spare aircraft for other routes. As we discussed before, BAs A380 is a very premium heavy configrudtuin and there is no way this will be filled (great for people looking for upgrades or to redeem awards though BA charges really high YQ). There aren't many routes suitable in BAs network that is suitable for the deployment of this aircraft: BA has been releasing this to only slot constricted airports. The reduction of freuqency to YVR is indicative of the fact that our market cannot handle the additional flood in capacity. In some ways, one can even consider this a downgrade with the decrease in weekly frequency... But it shows to you YVR isn't so much a business airport as BA is willing to decrease freuqency, which is again indicative oir smaller market.

I don't think this will necessarily be a one-off scenario. But this won't be a long-term occurrence either until the market grows and matures. But as that occurs, given this end is not a slot constricted airport (and there our alternative less constricted airports in London), if there are any new entrants such as WestJet, this A380 will instantly be unsustainable, but the added competition should technically be better for consumers.

trofirhen
Jul 29, 2015, 7:19 PM
I'll be switching my allegiance to One World because of this as my Aeroplan option is the HD AC 77W sardine can. I hope AC responds to this by removing their torture device from YVR-LHR.
Please, what kind of torture device? (aircraft and configuraion, of course). I'm interested in what AC offers, too. Thank you.:)

hoboman27
Jul 29, 2015, 8:09 PM
Whilst you were sleeping...

Are you all sitting down...

Daily BA A380 LHR-YVR effective 1 May 2016

http://airlineroute.net/2015/07/29/ba-yvr-s16update2/

This is HUGE news!

...

Now we just need to wait for a weather or medical diversion and Calgary will get it's A380 :tup:

Klazu
Jul 29, 2015, 8:12 PM
Now we just need to wait for a weather or medical diversion and Calgary will get it's A380 :tup:

Wouldn't Edmonton be a more likely one as the YVR-LHR flight path is north of Edmonton. Sorry to disappoint. :)

Why are some people saying that this will be a reduction in seats? Johnny was saying. :shrug:

And they are maintaing the 12 weekly summer schedule. I just knew something more had to happen for BA to drop from 12 weekly 744s to 12 weekly 772s.

So there you have it...

BA087 LHR1240 – 1400YVR 772 x23
BA085 LHR1715 – 1840YVR 388 D

BA086 YVR1755 – 1115+1LHR 772 x23
BA084 YVR2050 – 1400+1LHR 388 D

Klazu
Jul 29, 2015, 8:28 PM
They are not maintaining 12 weekly , it has been reduced to daily A380 only.

Seems that the original source got edited after Johnny posted his message.

BA085/084 will be replacing 747-400 from 01MAY16. Previously BA085/084 was to be switched to 777-200ER from 15MAY16. Initially Vancouver was to be served 7 weekly A380 and 5 weekly 777-200ER, however the seasonal 5 weekly BA087/086 has been removed from the inventory around mid-day Wednesday (29JUL15).

This is still such a superior product compared to the tired 747. I only fly to Europe around Christmas, so for me personally this is only great news. :)

Johnny Aussie
Jul 29, 2015, 8:52 PM
Seems that the original source got edited after Johnny posted his message.



This is still such a superior product compared to the tired 747. I only fly to Europe around Christmas, so for me personally this is only great news. :)

See what happens when you go to sleep!

Yeah I saw the original post late at night and now there is the update that the second seasonal is gone. However, as we all know these things get tweaked all the time. Overall though this is definitely less seats than 12 weekly 744s but certainly more seats than 12 weekly 772s. I just couldn't believe BA would strip that much capacity away. Especially the low Y capacity 772s they were going to send. This seems a much better fit now looking at it in more detail.

And looking at it this way.... premium wise the A380 seats 14F and 97J. The 744s seat 14F and 52J.

So next summer BA will be offering 98F seats per week and 679J seats per week versus 168F and 624J seats per week. So in actual fact slightly less premium seating anyway (less F but more J) which makes sense for the YVR market.

And yeah, YVR will be only the second airport in Canada to see the A380 and the only Canadian airport with a daily A380 service.

This is still a pretty damn cool result.....

Now to convince a carrier with passenger 747-800s to start a YVR flight too :)

nname
Jul 29, 2015, 9:17 PM
BA to fly A380 to Vancouver

British Airways will launch a daily A380 service to Vancouver next summer.

From May 1, the airline will roster the superjumbo on to flights BA084/085 between London Heathrow and Vancouver International airport.

The aircraft will replace the B747-400 that currently operates on the route, reports airlineroute.net.

Outbound service BA085 will depart LHR at 1715 and land in Vancouver at 1840, while return service BA084 will leave Vancouver at 2050 and arrive in London at 1400 the next day.

BA's other LHR-Vancouver service, BA086/087 will increase from five-times weekly to daily and from a B747-400 to a B777-200ER on May 15.

(Source (http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/101913/ba-to-fly-a380-to-vancouver))

LeftCoaster
Jul 29, 2015, 9:22 PM
Thought it would be interesting to take a swing at what the most likely route to ever see an A380 at YVR would be. Of note it is one of only a few airports in NA who can currently even accommodate a 380, even O'Hare can't AFAIK.

The following are long haul operators at YVR who run or will run the 380, ordered in a rough guess at their likelihood of ever running a 380, as well as a few notes justifying their position.


British Airways - Most likely, strong route, limited berths at Heathrow, business route;
Lufthansa - Not sure, but seems like a strong route;
China Southern - HNW travel between China and YVR strong. Beijing and Shanghai stronger markets;
Korean Airways - Not sure, could drop below Qantas;
Qantas - Highly unlikely, new route, tourist driven, some mining/business travel;
Air France - Highly unlikely, new route, tourist driven.


Anyone have any input? I don't think it will happen too soon, but if growth at YVR continues at it's current pace I'd imagine we might see one before the decade is out.

Wow, looks like I underestimated little ol' YVR. I was right we would see one before the decade is out, just didnt think it would be next year! Great news!

As I posted in the Canada section, I'm not too concerned about the drop in seats BA is offering, there is tons of time for them to add more seats via 3x or 4x 772 or a 767 daily or something like that. If they don't I'm sure some other airline will pick up the slack, load factors are high on UK routes and that demand isn't just going to disappear.

Either way YVR with the first daily A380 in Canada! Monstrous!

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

Klazu
Jul 29, 2015, 9:27 PM
(Source (http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/101913/ba-to-fly-a380-to-vancouver))

That's referencing the same Airlineroutes.com source which had a wrong information that got edited later in the day. Not sure if BA or YVR have published anything official on this?

If they don't I'm sure some other airline will pick up the slack, load factors are high on UK routes and that demand isn't just going to disappear.

Maybe Virgin Atlantic will return? Who knows. ;)

LeftCoaster
Jul 29, 2015, 9:34 PM
Now to convince a carrier with passenger 747-800s to start a YVR flight too :)

I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see one from Lufthansa in the near future.

With Iran opening up Germany is currently one of the best gateways to the country. With the large and predominantly wealthy Persian diaspora in Vancouver I could see this being a decent source of HNW growth for the run, helping support the F&B seats.

Or Air China could surprise, they can't seem to slow down adding seats to YVR. They only have a few but you never know.

deasine
Jul 29, 2015, 11:25 PM
Air China doesn't have any A380s but a future 747-8 service wouldn't be unconceivable. I don't believe Lufthansa will add the A380 to YVR for a couple reasons:

LH has been slowly reducing the importance of FRA as their European hub. This has been due to plethora of flying restrictions along with a steady increase in charges due to the new (and quite frankly unnecessary) capacity upgrades FRA has been receiving.
LH has fewer destinations in the US and routes more align with UA's hubs and the tendency to increase capacity to these hubs seems more likely than to YVR (whereas BA has more destinations and to non-oneworld hub airports, BA/AA focus is much more on TATL flights as the premier [in their words] North America-Europe hub).
YVR is not a premium market
That doesn't mean LH won't add capacity per say, but I do see an upgrade of the MUC route to a higher capacity aircraft more likely than an A380 service.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 29, 2015, 11:44 PM
I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see one from Lufthansa in the near future.

With Iran opening up Germany is currently one of the best gateways to the country. With the large and predominantly wealthy Persian diaspora in Vancouver I could see this being a decent source of HNW growth for the run, helping support the F&B seats.

Or Air China could surprise, they can't seem to slow down adding seats to YVR. They only have a few but you never know.

Call me the forever optimist... but also try and be realistic!

I am actually quite surprised BA is sending the A380 to YVR. But I will agree some of the member's predictions (including yours) were spot on! Good work.

The rest of that list though... I just cannot see:

QF: the YVR market will be ideally suited for a 787-900 type a/c if and when QF gets around to finally doing something about their long-haul fleet. I just cannot see an A380 on this route.

CZ: a huge gap between what they are sending now (787-800) and the A380. I would think we may see CZ add frequencies though.

KE: I will sit on the fence, but still unlikely.

AF: no way. If they cannot make YUL work, forget YVR.

LH: probably the next best chance. However....
Eventually they are going to have to replace the 744 on the YVR route with something. Putting either the 388 or the 748 on YVR would mean bringing back F class which doesn't seem to be the direction YVR-Europe is heading. Interesting that YVR-MUC does have F but not FRA. However, I think the 333 used on that route is more about total capacity and the right sized aircraft for YVR-MUC. In any event, the 748 doesn't have enough Y seats for the YVR market, but the A380 would and the premium difference between the 388 and the 748 is marginal. Soooo I would tip we would see a LH 388 rather than a 748. BUT - LH is not due to reveive any more of either so who knows!! So what I actually think we may see is Air Canada getting back into the direct YVR-FRA market and LH replaces the 744 with something smaller.

As for maybe seeing an Air China 748? Well, CA has certainly been rolling out all their new products to YVR lately and will be having their new F class on each flight. And the 748 would introduce premium economy and overall not that much more premium heavy than the 777-300ER they are sening now. But I bet they stick with the 77Ws and maintain the frequencies.

It seems more recently more airlines are introducing their newer products to YVR rather than the hand-me-down type stuff. Good news all around.

LeftCoaster
Jul 30, 2015, 12:05 AM
^ Ya that list was a musing of who would be likely to ever send one, not at all a thought that every route mentioned would be viable!

Air China doesn't have any A380s but a future 747-8 service wouldn't be unconceivable. I don't believe Lufthansa will add the A380 to YVR for a couple reasons:[list]

Just for clarity I was answering Johnny's question about a 748, not anther 380... I'm not that greedy! Although.... :cool:

I don't expect to see another 380 soon, I hope we can keep the one we just got. I agree with Johnny that AC will likely up YVR-Europe before anything else happens and that will preclude LF from adding one. I'd also expect to see Iceland Air go daily or someone else to add more frequency before seeing another 380.

Now that we got the 380 I think it's time to go back to dreaming up new destinations.

Johnny Aussie
Jul 30, 2015, 12:25 AM
^ Ya that list was a musing of who would be likely to ever send one, not at all a thought that every route mentioned would be viable!

I don't expect to see another 380 soon, I hope we can keep the one we just got. I agree with Johnny that AC will likely up YVR-Europe before anything else happens and that will preclude LF from adding one. I'd also expect to see Iceland Air go daily or someone else to add more frequency before seeing another 380.

Now that we got the 380 I think it's time to go back to dreaming up new destinations.

With AC going to launch BNE, Hainan's application to start, the possibility of Xiamen down the road (they are now buying more 787s) I still think the majority of growth will continue to be Asia/Pacific-centric. It's just inevitable that is where the growth is going to come from.

Europe is now very well covered from YVR. Year-round scheduled flights to LHR, CDG, AMS and FRA plus all the seasonal additions... not bad for a city on the west coast of NA. I really cannot see that much more to Europe other than the odd frequency increases to KEF (on FI) and FRA (on AC) and perhaps AF moves CDG to daily. Looks like Condor is maintaining its four weekly to YVR next summer and Edelweiss maintaining its three weekly flights. Air Transat increasing summer flights to LGW (basically YVR grabbed the once weekly YEG flight) and upping its winter flights to LGW (albeit from once to twice weekly and only starting early Feb) is another small but positive sign as those flights were moved from YYC (Westjet effect no doubt - especially if they go LGW year-round).

Now the question is going to be.. will BA make the 388 year-round? :runaway:

excel
Jul 30, 2015, 6:26 AM
Awesome news. Excited to see it.

CareerShow
Jul 30, 2015, 6:37 AM
I think BA will end up adding the 5 weekly service back before next summer. The loss of Virgin Atlantic coupled with the decrease will see the need for extra flights to the London area.

CareerShow
Jul 30, 2015, 5:28 PM
With AC going to launch BNE, Hainan's application to start, the possibility of Xiamen down the road (they are now buying more 787s) I still think the majority of growth will continue to be Asia/Pacific-centric. It's just inevitable that is where the growth is going to come from.

Europe is now very well covered from YVR. Year-round scheduled flights to LHR, CDG, AMS and FRA plus all the seasonal additions... not bad for a city on the west coast of NA. I really cannot see that much more to Europe other than the odd frequency increases to KEF (on FI) and FRA (on AC) and perhaps AF moves CDG to daily. Looks like Condor is maintaining its four weekly to YVR next summer and Edelweiss maintaining its three weekly flights. Air Transat increasing summer flights to LGW (basically YVR grabbed the once weekly YEG flight) and upping its winter flights to LGW (albeit from once to twice weekly and only starting early Feb) is another small but positive sign as those flights were moved from YYC (Westjet effect no doubt - especially if they go LGW year-round).

Now the question is going to be.. will BA make the 388 year-round? :runaway:
I would say Yes unless they decided to put a 77W on the route, which has the same capacity as the 747.

usog
Jul 30, 2015, 7:04 PM
Man I really, really feel like Mileage Plan from AS is the way to go now if you live in Vancouver.

deasine
Jul 30, 2015, 7:18 PM
Man I really, really feel like Mileage Plan from AS is the way to go now if you live in Vancouver.

I hope you didn't necessarily make this comment because BA is sending an A380! Don't forget YQ on BA is at least $600CAD for a J flight. And these rates, you are better off redeeming LH J through Aeroplan.

usog
Jul 30, 2015, 8:17 PM
I hope you didn't necessarily make this comment because BA is sending an A380! Don't forget YQ on BA is at least $600CAD for a J flight. And these rates, you are better off redeeming LH J through Aeroplan.

Haha no I'm somewhat aware of the fees BA and LHR add, but with all the attention other carriers are giving YVR it seems like there's no point conjoining oneself to Aeroplan anymore. Mileage Plan seems to have almost all the right partners to maximize point gain when your home base is YVR while enjoying a diversity of carriers.