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Johnny Aussie
Oct 20, 2015, 8:55 PM
Perhaps a reaction to National Airlines route launch.

Westjet adding a second weekly flight. New flight will operate Tuesdays.

Flights will now op Tuesdays and Fridays.

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1054

This pushes Westjet's weekly transborder frequencies to 99. Certainly they can add one more to get a nice even 100!?

That is still 50 less than the AC Group at 149 per week.

Total transborder (pre-cleared) is oh so close to 70 daily this winter from YVR! Including CX it goes over 70 (not to mention PR).

Johnny Aussie
Oct 21, 2015, 8:30 PM
From airlineroute.net Twitter

Xiamen Airlines applies for 4 weekly Xiamen - Vancouver with 787-8 from June 2016.

So the buzz about Xiamen had some credence.

That should give YVR 6 mainland Chinese carriers by next summer with 8 cities served directly.

Air China
China Eastern
China Southern
Sichuan
Hainan
Xiamen

Also... If these flights do happen YVR will see the following weekly frequencies during the summer peak:

Mainland China - 61
Including HKG - 82
Including TPE - 94

Impressive...

Klazu
Oct 21, 2015, 10:49 PM
And another 787! Boy, I am loosing track of all 787 connections. :cheers:

Are there any other major Chinese airlines that we are still missing? All these airlines really make us a major gateway between China and North America.

Back in my home country, Finnair has a similar location as YVR to be a gateway between Europe and Asia, however unlike here, there all those connections are flown Finnair and Finnair alone. Only alliance partner JAL flyes a lonely 787 to Helsinki few times a week.

Because of that I don't consider Helsinki a very successful gateway hub, but I think YVR is doing great as we definitely don't depent on Air Canada's presence in here! Always great not to be dependent on one single operator.

LeftCoaster
Oct 21, 2015, 10:59 PM
Great news, nice to see the rumour become more of a reality.

It's easy to not get excited about another airline/city in China, but every connection we add just further cements YVR as one of the preeminent gateway cities into China. And don't let YVRs success fool you, competition is fierce, so every victory is extremely important.

Also, on Klazu's point, I really think it is important how YVR is a multi-alliance hub. AC is still incredibly important, and unlike some on here I really appreciate the attention YVR gets from AC, but having the depth of carriers that YVR has insulates the airport from risk and encourages more diverse connections as carriers won't stay away from the 'fortress hub' because their passengers can't find easy connections.

With that said I'd like to see YVR get some more US cities in it's roster now, from all three big us carriers, to help Asian carriers use YVR to better connect to the US.

trofirhen
Oct 21, 2015, 11:13 PM
Great news, nice to see the rumour become more of a reality........

Also, on Klazu's point, I really think it is important how YVR is a multi-alliance hub. ......................
With that said I'd like to see YVR get some more US cities in it's roster now, from all three big us carriers, to help Asian carriers use YVR to better connect to the US.
What about connections to South America? ALL AC flights from Asia to South America will connect through YYZ and YYZ alone. Won't we need a couple of South American airlines, too?
This aspect has never really been discussed here, and I think it should be.

Klazu
Oct 21, 2015, 11:47 PM
What other US connections could we get? All American airlines unfortunately operate in hub-and-spokes model and we already have direct connection to almost all big hubs. We are only missing hubs like Detroit, year-round Atlanta, Miami, Charlotte and Philadelphia. From big cities we are only missing San Diego and Boston.

I doubt we will be able to get any direct flights to 2nd class cities in the US as all airlines there want to fly us through their own hubs.

LeftCoaster
Oct 21, 2015, 11:51 PM
What other US connections could we get? All American airlines unfortunately operate in hub-and-spokes model and we already have direct connection to almost all big hubs. We are only missing hubs like Detroit, year-round Atlanta, Miami, Charlotte and Philadelphia. From big cities we are only missing San Diego and Boston.

I doubt we will be able to get any direct flights to 2nd class cities in the US as all airlines there want to fly us through their own hubs.

Those are some pretty big hubs we are missing.

Not so much thinking secondary non-hub cities aside from the obvious ones such as Portland, but Miami, Atlanta, Charlotte etc... are a must.

Klazu
Oct 21, 2015, 11:56 PM
I think only a daily Atlanta would be important, as those other cities likely see quite little direct traffic and are easy and short connection from nearby hubs. San Diego seems to be a holy grail for many in here, so perhaps that should be direct as well. Portland we already have.

Miami would not offer much on top of Orlando that we already have and Houston offers good connections to the Carribean. So I still think we are pretty good, although more connections the merrier. :)

EDIT: Oh, daily direct Washington DC would be great (we only have seasonal). There are surprisingly many companies with offices in DC area.

nname
Oct 22, 2015, 12:19 AM
From airlineroute.net Twitter

Xiamen Airlines applies for 4 weekly Xiamen - Vancouver with 787-8 from June 2016.

So the buzz about Xiamen had some credence.

Interestingly that all 3 SkyTeam members in China (MU/CZ/MF) will now fly to YVR, a non-SkyTeam hub. In contrast, none of them seems to form a partnership with DL and fly to its hub in SEA.

Next on the list: I read somewhere that MU is looking into a direct service between YVR and NKG. But this is just.. rumors for now...

SFUVancouver
Oct 22, 2015, 12:27 AM
Great news on the likelihood of the Xiamen Airlines 4-times weekly Xiamen - Vancouver route, especially with 787-8 equipment, beginning in June 2016.

It will be a serious feather in YVR's cap to have all of China's major international airlines and all of its major cities directly connected. Transit-without-Visa to the US will help the airport and airlines leverage this connectivity to an ever greater degree. In the meantime, YVR has pretty seamless Int'l to US connectivity, including US per-clearance, and I agree that additional connections and daily-or-better service to the major US hubs will help. Fifth-freedom (is that the right freedom?) flights like the JKF-YVR-HKG are a major potential growth opportunity for YVR connectivity and improved leveraging of connections to China.

As for all the Dreamliners, it's helping YVR build a reputation as being an airport serving modern equipment and, thus, generally be part of a more pleasurable experience for travellers.

LeftCoaster
Oct 22, 2015, 1:16 AM
Prompted by the discussion about alliances, I put together a quick look at S16 frequencies by airline/alliance as well as my educated guess as to the equipment they would be using.

I'm sure it's riddled with errors so let me know (I'm looking at you Johnny), but it's a good start.

http://i.imgur.com/wu4JWBF.png
http://i.imgur.com/wu4JWBF.png

Looks like Star Alliance is still the big dog at YVR, not a big surprise, but I was surprised by Sky Team's big lead over One World. Granted BA is running the 380 which should count as 2 frequencies, but even still.

trofirhen
Oct 22, 2015, 1:24 AM
YVR still needs its "orange" map (countries served), to go south ..... Lima, Santiago, and São Paulo are upcoming "musts."

Klazu
Oct 22, 2015, 2:52 AM
Great list, LeftCoaster. I think one of those Air Canada 787 connections must be a 787-9 as the plane I return from my Chile trip (via Toronto) is a one of those and I would think it is continuing onwards to Asia?

Regarding China traffic, do we know what % of the traffic is heading to Vancouver and how many transit to elsewhere in Canada or the US. It would be interesting to know if we really are a transit hub or rather a destination?

red-paladin
Oct 22, 2015, 5:25 AM
Is the transit without visa regime more likely to happen under the new federal government?

trofirhen
Oct 22, 2015, 5:28 AM
Is the transit without visa regime more likely to happen under the new federal government?
I thought it was already in progress. I think your question might be: is TWV more likely to happen FASTER under the new government?
(I sure as heck hope so. It was supposed to be operational last spring, was it not?)

Large Cat
Oct 22, 2015, 6:31 AM
Prompted by the discussion about alliances, I put together a quick look at S16 frequencies by airline/alliance as well as my educated guess as to the equipment they would be using.

I'm sure it's riddled with errors so let me know (I'm looking at you Johnny), but it's a good start.

http://i.imgur.com/wu4JWBF.png
http://i.imgur.com/wu4JWBF.png

Looks like Star Alliance is still the big dog at YVR, not a big surprise, but I was surprised by Sky Team's big lead over One World. Granted BA is running the 380 which should count as 2 frequencies, but even still.


Will Air Canada really have 737's going to Mexico City (or anywhere) by next summer?

Otherwise, what a great list of planes!

Johnny Aussie
Oct 22, 2015, 7:39 AM
Prompted by the discussion about alliances, I put together a quick look at S16 frequencies by airline/alliance as well as my educated guess as to the equipment they would be using.

I'm sure it's riddled with errors so let me know (I'm looking at you Johnny), but it's a good start.

Looks like Star Alliance is still the big dog at YVR, not a big surprise, but I was surprised by Sky Team's big lead over One World. Granted BA is running the 380 which should count as 2 frequencies, but even still.

Yeah that's pretty comprehensive and impressive when you look at it!

Some of the equipment is a bit off but the frequencies are spot on. Good work :)

AC to SYD on a 77L
AC to MEX on a 319
NH to HND most likely a 788 (the 789 is only on the YVR route temporarily)
LH to MUC a mix of 346 and 333
WK to ZRH a mix of 333 and 332
CI to TPE is scheduled daily 744 now but expect that to change
KE to ICN also generally daily 744 in the summer

And... With the non-alliance foreign carriers even more impressive :)

With the additions of Hainan and Xiamen, YVR will have 22 foreign carriers serving the city (those from outside North America - so not including U.S. carriers or Aeromexico). The second most of any airport in Canada. Only YYZ, of course, has more.... Way more! ;)

LeftCoaster
Oct 22, 2015, 7:25 PM
With the additions of Hainan and Xiamen, YVR will have 22 foreign carriers serving the city (those from outside North America - so not including U.S. carriers or Aeromexico). The second most of any airport in Canada. Only YYZ, of course, has more.... Way more! ;)

Actually I only count 32 for YYZ, so not really way more, although I guess that is ~40% more.

1. SATA Intl
2. Air France
3. Aer Lingus
4. Iceland Air
5. PIA
6. Qatar Airlines
7. LOT
8. Austrian
9. Avianca
10. Egyptair
11. Ethopian
12. Ethiad
13. Eva Air
14. Finnair
15. Korean Air
16. Jet Airways
17. Philippine
18. Saudia
19. Transaero
20. British Airways
21. Lufthansa
22. KLM
23. Hainan Airlines
24. Emirates
25. TAM Airlines
26. China Eastern
27. El Al
28. Alitalia
29. WOW Air
30. Cathay Pacific
31. Turkish
32. Condor

Johnny Aussie
Oct 22, 2015, 8:28 PM
Actually I only count 32 for YYZ, so not really way more, although I guess that is ~40% more.

6. Qatar Airlines
19. Transaero

Scratch these two. Qatar only serves YUL and Transaero ending service in December. That's still an impressive list of 30!

YYZ 30
YVR 22 (subject to Hainan and Xiamen confirming of course).
YUL 15
YYC 4
YHZ 3
YEG 2

Denscity
Oct 22, 2015, 9:12 PM
^^^ Well if Toronto has 30 and Vancouver 22 then YVR is definitely punching above its weight!

LeftCoaster
Oct 22, 2015, 11:58 PM
Scratch these two. Qatar only serves YUL and Transaero ending service in December. That's still an impressive list of 30!

YYZ 30
YVR 22 (subject to Hainan and Xiamen confirming of course).
YUL 15
YYC 4
YHZ 3
YEG 2

Re: Doha, right you are, must have carried it over from YUL.

Didn't know about Transaero, that's kinda surprising it's getting dropped, there are a decent amount of wealthy Russians in Toronto, I figured it was a decent route.

LeftCoaster
Oct 23, 2015, 12:01 AM
I've updated the list based on Johnny's input and added non-alliance carriers as well. A pretty strong list I must say.

http://i.imgur.com/LKfThHb.png
http://i.imgur.com/LKfThHb.png

One interesting thing I noted while doing this list, we don't have any summer 767s anymore except Rouge and those rickety old beasts WestJet just bought. The year of the Dreamliner really played out!

I'd imagine we still see the odd 767 during the winter, but I can't think of who still sends them.

nname
Oct 23, 2015, 12:47 AM
Re: Doha, right you are, must have carried it over from YUL.

Didn't know about Transaero, that's kinda surprising it's getting dropped, there are a decent amount of wealthy Russians in Toronto, I figured it was a decent route.

Transaero had gone bankrupt and will cease all service in December.

osirisboy
Oct 23, 2015, 1:04 AM
Great list Thx!!

ACT7
Oct 23, 2015, 1:57 PM
^^^ Well if Toronto has 30 and Vancouver 22 then YVR is definitely punching above its weight!
I actually count 17 for Vancouver (19 if you include Hainan and Xiamen) and 32 for YYZ.

http://centreforaviation.com/profiles/airports/toronto-pearson-international-airport-yyz

http://centreforaviation.com/profiles/airports/toronto-pearson-international-airport-yyz

Still, YVR punches above its weight, no question about that.

Valley_Refugee
Oct 23, 2015, 6:00 PM
I actually count 17 for Vancouver (19 if you include Hainan and Xiamen) and 32 for YYZ.

http://centreforaviation.com/profiles/airports/toronto-pearson-international-airport-yyz

http://centreforaviation.com/profiles/airports/toronto-pearson-international-airport-yyz

Still, YVR punches above its weight, no question about that.

I'm not sure how you count 17 when LeftCoaster's list clearly displays 23 non-Canadian carriers...remember, it's a list for next summer, so it includes seasonal.

sacrifice333
Oct 23, 2015, 7:37 PM
I know they just serve US destinations each from Vancouver, but should Alaska Airlines and National Airlines be added to the matrix? :shrug:

Vin
Oct 23, 2015, 7:45 PM
YVR is going to get its first A380 full-double-deck aircraft next year!

And it's going to be a British Airways.

trofirhen
Oct 23, 2015, 9:26 PM
I know they just serve US destinations each from Vancouver, but should Alaska Airlines and National Airlines be added to the matrix? :shrug:
I think perhaps it's valid to add Alaska Airlines. As for National Airlines: technically yes, but, in a regular airlines list, not really.

https://planefinder.net/about/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/AIRBUS_380_800-495x170.jpg
https://planefinder.net/about/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/AIRBUS_380_800-495x170.jpg

For Vin: As for the BA 380, voilà

ACT7
Oct 23, 2015, 9:49 PM
I'm not sure how you count 17 when LeftCoaster's list clearly displays 23 non-Canadian carriers...remember, it's a list for next summer, so it includes seasonal.
I only did international (non-U.S.) carriers.
If you include U.S. then YYZ would be at 35 (removing Transaero and adding WOW) and YVR would be up to 24 if you include Xiamen, Hainan, and National.

LeftCoaster
Oct 23, 2015, 10:46 PM
I actually count 17 for Vancouver (19 if you include Hainan and Xiamen) and 32 for YYZ.

http://centreforaviation.com/profiles/airports/toronto-pearson-international-airport-yyz

http://centreforaviation.com/profiles/airports/toronto-pearson-international-airport-yyz

Still, YVR punches above its weight, no question about that.

That list is missing:
-Qantas
-Hainan
-Xiamen
-Condor
-Aeromexico

So that would take YVR from your 17 up to 21, or 22 if you include Aeromexico.

Here's the full list, stars denote seasonal only service.

1 Lufthansa
2 KLM
3 Edelweiss*
4 China Airlines
5 Iceland Air*
6 Air New Zealand
7 ANA
8 China Southern
9 Sichuan Airlines
10 Philippine Airlines
11 Xiamen Airlines
12 Hainan Airlines
13 Japan Airlines
14 Korean Airlines
15 British Airways
16 Condor*
17 Air China
18 Cathay Pacific
19 China Eastern
20 Eva Air
21 Qantas*
22 Aeromexico

LeftCoaster
Oct 23, 2015, 10:50 PM
Here's the list for YYZ, showing 29 intercontinental, 32 including Copa, Aeromexico and Cubana:

1 SATA Intl
2 Air France
3 Aer Lingus
4 Iceland Air
5 PIA
6 LOT
7 Austrian
8 Avianca
9 Egyptair
10 Ethopian
11 Ethiad
12 Eva Air
13 Finnair*
14 Korean Air
15 Jet Airways
16 Philippine
17 Saudia
18 British Airways
19 Lufthansa
20 KLM
21 Hainan Airlines
22 Emirates
23 TAM Airlines
24 China Eastern
25 El Al
26 Alitalia
27 WOW Air
28 Cathay Pacific
29 Turkish
30 Copa
31 Aeromexico
32 Cubana

Don't know why everyone is talking about including US carriers, that was never the intent.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 23, 2015, 11:33 PM
That list is missing:
-Qantas
-Hainan
-Xiamen
-Condor
-Aeromexico

So that would take YVR from your 17 up to 21, or 22 if you include Aeromexico.

Here's the full list, stars denote seasonal only service.

1 Lufthansa
2 KLM
3 Edelweiss*
4 China Airlines
5 Iceland Air*
6 Air New Zealand
7 ANA
8 China Southern
9 Sichuan Airlines
10 Philippine Airlines
11 Xiamen Airlines
12 Hainan Airlines
13 Japan Airlines
14 Korean Airlines
15 British Airways
16 Condor*
17 Air China
18 Cathay Pacific
19 China Eastern
20 Eva Air
21 Qantas*
22 Aeromexico

Missing Air France! There is your #23... GAME SET MATCH!

LeftCoaster
Oct 24, 2015, 12:13 AM
Missing Air France! There is your #23... GAME SET MATCH!

Right you are!

Here it is in alphabetical order just because that's easier.

1 Aeromexico
2 Air China
3 Air France
4 Air New Zealand
5 ANA
6 British Airways
7 Cathay Pacific
8 China Airlines
9 China Eastern
10 China Southern
11 Condor*
12 Edelweiss*
13 Eva Air
14 Hainan Airlines
15 Iceland Air*
16 Japan Airlines
17 KLM
18 Korean Airlines
19 Lufthansa
20 Philippine Airlines
21 Qantas*
22 Sichuan Airlines
23 Xiamen Airlines

Klazu
Oct 24, 2015, 2:15 AM
Anyone got the time to put together the short list of airlines YVR has but YYZ doesn't? Too lazy right now...

trofirhen
Oct 24, 2015, 2:43 AM
Anyone got the time to put together the short list of airlines YVR has but YYZ doesn't? Too lazy right now...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_International_Airport#Airlines_and_destinations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Pearson_International_Airport#Airlines_and_destinations

According to this YVR has:
Air China, Air New Zealand, Alaska Airlines, ANA, China Airlines, China Southern, Edelweiss Air, Qantas; /- that YYZ does not.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 24, 2015, 2:55 AM
^
Add JAL, Sichuan and (most likely) Xiamen.

So a total of 10... sticking with the non North American path.

*****

Also... let's keep going with this....

Just down the road at Sea-Tac... they have a total of ten overseas carriers.

Of the ten, eight also fly to YVR (assuming Hainan does launch YVR as well).

Only Emirates and Asiana fly to SEA and not YVR.

YVR is also on Asiana's radar too.

trofirhen
Oct 24, 2015, 3:49 AM
^
Add JAL, Sichuan and (most likely) Xiamen.

So a total of 10... sticking with the non North American path.

*****

Also... let's keep going with this....

Just down the road at Sea-Tac... they have a total of ten overseas carriers.

Of the ten, eight also fly to YVR (assuming Hainan does launch YVR as well).

Only Emirates and Asiana fly to SEA and not YVR.

YVR is also on Asiana's radar too.
Asiana would be good, I suppose. We don't really need Emirates; it's DIRECTLY over the pole longitudinally, and not really convenient anywhere from YVR.
Istanbul (Turkish) would be a good one to have for all our Mideast /Balkan / Eastern Mediterranean needs.

excel
Oct 24, 2015, 7:56 AM
Great lists. Extra points to LeftCoaster :tup:

As to not needing Emirates, I agree as it allows more airlines to come here. Due to DBX having connections to every major hub, it will steal traffic from BA and may result in BA pulling their A380 :( But if they decide to bring an A380 of their own, I wouldn't complain. But that is highly doubtful.

thenoflyzone
Oct 24, 2015, 1:33 PM
Possible merger in China...

http://www.wcarn.com/news/48/48219.html

As far as I'm concerned, all these Chinese airlines (flying to YVR) are one and the same. All government owned anyways except for HU (which doesn't fly to YVR). Competition in China is a myth.

BTW, adding airlines only rumored to start a route to these lists is pretty nonsensical. How about we stick to confirmed routes (with official launch dates), to paint an accurate picture.

LeftCoaster
Oct 26, 2015, 7:39 PM
We?

I think we can talk about whatever we want to in the Vancouver local. Thanks though.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 27, 2015, 4:01 PM
Air Canada is moving forward the launch date of YVR - BNE 2 weeks earlier to 1 June 2016.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/10/27/ac-bne-jun16update2/

nname
Oct 27, 2015, 9:20 PM
Emirates to codeshare with Alaska Airlines on the following routes from Vancouver starting Nov 23rd:

Vancouver - Seattle
Vancouver - Los Angeles

http://www.emirates.com/english/about/media-centre/2749178/emirates-announces-codeshare-agreement-with-alaska-airlines

SFUVancouver
Oct 27, 2015, 11:00 PM
Air Canada is moving forward the launch date of YVR - BNE 2 weeks earlier to 1 June 2016.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/10/27/ac-bne-jun16update2/

Good stuff. Thanks for the info.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 28, 2015, 7:07 AM
^^ thanks for the acknowledgment SFU :)

Every few months it seems NZ adds a frequency or two at certain times of year.

This time it's from 9 April to 7 May 2016 - increases from three to four weekly.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/10/28/nz-yvr-apr16/

Johnny Aussie
Oct 28, 2015, 7:21 AM
https://www.biv.com/article/2015/10/summer-tourism-bc-71-compared-last-year/

International tourism to BC up 7.1% in the first eight months of 2015.

Led by France (up 29.9% thanks Air France), Japan (up 12.5% thanks Rouge and ANA) and India (up 10.6% - direct link coming?)

U.S. visitors were also up 8.6%.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 28, 2015, 9:03 AM
Effective 1 June through 30 September 2016

Air Canada adding a second daily YVR-LHR flight on the 787-9 Dreamliner.

Full schedule:

AC854 YVR1830 – 1140+1LHR 77W D
AC896 YVR2110 – 1420+1LHR 789 D ***

AC855 LHR1005 – 1135YVR 77W D
AC897 LHR1615 – 1745YVR 789 D ***

*** New Flight

connect2source
Oct 28, 2015, 1:44 PM
Great news and an alternative to AC's 777HD torture device!!

Klazu
Oct 28, 2015, 2:48 PM
Short segment on YVR on Global Morning News with YVR CEO visiting. 20M happening this year, 21M next year according to him. Airport capacity at 25M and because of that he said that a decision on the new terminal needs to be done next year.

Exciting times for sure and A380 and other larger planes were mentioned.

Canadian74
Oct 28, 2015, 4:16 PM
Great news and an alternative to AC's 777HD torture device!!

It's not really any better in Y

LeftCoaster
Oct 28, 2015, 6:34 PM
Effective 1 June through 30 September 2016

Air Canada adding a second daily YVR-LHR flight on the 787-8 Dreamliner.

Full schedule:

AC854 YVR1830 – 1140+1LHR 77W D
AC896 YVR2110 – 1420+1LHR 788 D ***

AC855 LHR1005 – 1135YVR 77W D
AC897 LHR1615 – 1745YVR 788 D ***

*** New Flight

Great news, I guess we know where the LHR slots YYC and YEG just lost went to.

SFUVancouver
Oct 28, 2015, 6:50 PM
Effective 1 June through 30 September 2016

Air Canada adding a second daily YVR-LHR flight on the 787-8 Dreamliner.

Full schedule:

AC854 YVR1830 – 1140+1LHR 77W D
AC896 YVR2110 – 1420+1LHR 788 D ***

AC855 LHR1005 – 1135YVR 77W D
AC897 LHR1615 – 1745YVR 788 D ***

*** New Flight

Those are prime LHR slots! Nice civilized arrival and departure times coming and going.

Awesome news!

Short segment on YVR on Global Morning News with YVR CEO visiting. 20M happening this year, 21M next year according to him. Airport capacity at 25M and because of that he said that a decision on the new terminal needs to be done next year.

Exciting times for sure and A380 and other larger planes were mentioned.

This is an excited time for YVR. I feel like cracking open the YVR master plan sometime soon to see what the phasing strategy is for further terminal growth. If I remember correctly, the plan is to build a new trans-border terminal to the east of the international terminal, which would let YVR move all US-bound (and incoming?) flights to that new terminal and take all of the former trans-border areas of the international terminal for inter-continental travel. It would mean a bit of a hike to go from a domestic terminal arrival to a US/trans-border terminal departure, but moving sidewalks do wonders. I also recall that the Canada Line would have a new stop built to service the US trans-border terminal. I wonder whose responsibility it would be to finance that? I would expect the airport with some inevitable contributions from senior levels of government. That's a ribbon-cutting ceremony to which a lot of parties would want to ensure they are invited.

Klazu
Oct 28, 2015, 7:54 PM
Mr. Richmond also said that YVR has very well-positioned runways for an airport. Not sure what he meant with that?

Those are prime LHR slots! Nice civilized arrival and departure times coming and going.

Yeah, very similar times to British Airways. Does BA get any priority treatment with slots on LHR end or does the airport authority give those out evenly?

If I remember correctly, the plan is to build a new trans-border terminal to the east of the international terminal, which would let YVR move all US-bound (and incoming?) flights to that new terminal and take all of the former trans-border areas of the international terminal for inter-continental travel. It would mean a bit of a hike to go from a domestic terminal arrival to a US/trans-border terminal departure, but moving sidewalks do wonders.

That's how I have understood it to be and you are right that it would be a long walk. Where could they place these moving walkways? No need for an automatic people mover just yet? :)

SFUVancouver
Oct 28, 2015, 8:09 PM
Mr. Richmond also said that YVR has very well-positioned runways for an airport. Not sure what he meant with that?

Perhaps that they have favourable orientation for prevailing winds? YVR doesn't have a reputation for fearsome crosswinds or down-drafts, to the best of my knowledge. I've always found landings at YVR to be smooth a silk.


Yeah, very similar times to British Airways. Does BA get any priority treatment with slots on LHR end or does the airport authority give those out evenly?

Perhaps now BA must compete for new slots (which essentially don't exist, hence the 3rd runway rigamarole) on a level playing field with its competitors, but historically they grew by absorbing many of the UK's domestic and international carriers during the nationalized ownership years so likely ended up with all the prime slots this way. There's also likely still a deep-seated General Motors-esque "what's good for BA is good for LHR" mindset that plays out in a variety of ways.


That's how I have understood it to be and you are right that it would be a long walk. Where could they place these moving walkways? No need for an automatic people mover just yet? :)

Perhaps YVR will adopt a Munich-style solution of essentially putting the walkways on the roof? (Fully enclosed, of course). It requires a bunch of vertical circulation, but it pops one up and over all of the complexity of secured and unsecured areas, the US Trans-border/INS-secured areas (much like the Schengen and non-Schengen areas of EU terminals), and drops people down to the appropriate spot. I could see YVR going this route and creating a beautifully day-lit moving walkway connection between the domestic area and the new Transborder area.

They could even potentially employ Siemens' super-fast moving walkway, like those recently installed in YYZ's Terminal 1. These travel at up to four times faster the speed of conventional moving walkways, a single unit can traverse up to 450 metres (far further than moving walkways), and they require far less depth below the walkway surface since they use separate 'trays' (for lack of a better word) on which people stand and walk and this is what lets the system accelerate and decelerate. At the end of the walkway the trays disappear below the mechanical area and then move laterally, reverse direction, and return in parallel, as opposed to returning underneath the moving walkway system. They're conveyed by linear induction motors (like SkyTrain!) as opposed to a conventional electric motor and chains, so they're far more energy efficient, there's far less to break, and a whole lot less to wear out. Very cool system! It's even now being considered in lieu of automated people movers by some airports, since the hourly throughput is comparable but the cost is exponentially lower, it's easier to accommodate into an existing airport, and the traveller experience is perceived to be superior because there's no waiting for a train, nor uncertainty of how long it will take, etc. Moving walkways are pretty intuitive and exceptionally easy to sign with environmental graphics and travel time to the destination terminal.

craneSpotter
Oct 28, 2015, 8:55 PM
interesting read for those that are into airline operations:

Dream Team: Air Canada takes a 'pit crew' approach to 787 maintenance

Beta Skies - Oct 28, 2015 (http://skiesmag.com/news/article/DreamTeamAirCanadatakesapitcrewapproachto787maintenance)

At 10:31 a.m. during a recent weekday, one of Air Canada’s Boeing 787-8 Dreamliners touched down at Vancouver International Airport from Tokyo’s Narita Airport.

At 11:33 a.m., another Dreamliner landed at the international terminal, known to travellers locally by its airport code, YVR. This flight originated in Shanghai.

It wouldn’t be too long before another 787-8 reached YVR, this time at 12:48 p.m., from Seoul.

In each instance, Air Canada deployed staff to methodically conduct maintenance checks on the wide-body planes. While other international carriers routinely assign two workers to carry out a series of maintenance tasks, Air Canada has opted for a “pit crew” concept for its Dreamliners, with five to eight employees descending on each arriving aircraft....

...The end result is that Air Canada is able to turn around a Dreamliner in 80 minutes, compared with other carriers that might take two hours, Butterfield estimated.
Hours before a plane lands, information is being transmitted from the 787 to Air Canada’s maintenance crew via “advance health monitoring,” he noted....

...“The schedule is built for the 787 to fly 18.5 hours a day for eight days before an overnight visit for a 12-hour, in-depth maintenance layover. It is very important to be pro-active on the daily turnarounds, and we put 22 people on the layovers for the longer maintenance checks,” Thomson said.
It isn’t a simple matter of flying planes back and forth.

Each of the 787-8s that landed in Vancouver got sent to an overseas destination different from the one where the jet originated. The plane from Narita ended up being sent to Shanghai. The jet from Shanghai had Seoul for its next mission, and the aircraft from Seoul got assigned to fly to Narita in a carefully orchestrated flight schedule, said Michael Perucho, Air Canada’s manager of continuous improvement.

Full article (http://skiesmag.com/news/article/DreamTeamAirCanadatakesapitcrewapproachto787maintenance)

Gordon
Oct 28, 2015, 8:58 PM
I don't think a lack of slots is an issue @ YVR, they don't seem to be in a hurry to build phase 2 of the west Chevron & the North runway is rarely used for take offs(2% of traffic)

Johnny Aussie
Oct 28, 2015, 9:31 PM
So with the latest addition to European flying next summer...

Capacity on YVR - Europe will increase by about 16% or about 4,100 seats per week.

GAINS
AC to LHR (new daily 789)
KL to AMS (upgauging to daily 772 from daily 333)
WS to LGW (new 6 weekly 763)
TS to FCO (new route - 1 weekly 332)
TS to LGW (additional 1 weekly 332)
DE to FRA (additional 1 weekly 763)
LH to MUC (346 replacing 333 on 3 of the 7 weekly flights)
WK to ZRH (333 will be flying on two of the three weekly in 2016 vs only one in 2015, other flights 332s)

LOSSES
BA to LHR (daily A380 replacing 12 weekly 744s)

It's only October so who knows if there will be any more changes.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 28, 2015, 9:33 PM
Looks like next summer Air Canada will be de-rouging LAX and SFO.

Right now the scheds are showing mainline on the following:

YVR-LAX 5 daily 320s
YVR-SFO 4 daily 320s
YYC-LAX 2 daily 320s

ANC and LAS are still showing as rouge flights.

trofirhen
Oct 28, 2015, 10:05 PM
Will YVR be in need of a third runway within the next five years?

excel
Oct 28, 2015, 10:28 PM
^No there really is no need for a third runway. Heathrow has 2 runways and handles close to 75 million passengers. Don't see why they would need one.

SFUVancouver
Oct 28, 2015, 11:46 PM
Will YVR be in need of a third runway within the next five years?

Short answer: No, not in the next five years [2020].

Longer answer: we'll need one sometime in the first half of the next decade, and there are some key steps that need to be taken to maximize the capacity of the existing runways and defer an investment in a third parallel runway until then.

I quote from the current YVR Master Plan:

In 2007, 275,000 aircraft used the runways at YVR, either arriving or departing. [Aircraft movements for 2014 were 310,139] Current annual runway capacity at YVR is approximately 400,000 aircraft takeoffs and landings. Capacity could be increased to more than 450,000 takeoffs and landings by using each of the parallel runways simultaneously for arrivals and departures. This would require improvements to the taxiway system.

Projections indicate that by 2027, the airport will need to accommodate 484,000 takeoffs and landings annually. To accommodate this increase an additional runway will be required.

The 20-Year Master Plan airside system analysis was preceded by long-term development studies that suggested approximately 600,000 runway movements would take place by 2044, and that a new runway would be required to accommodate the projected activity.

[snip]

To realize the full capacity potential of YVR’s existing runway system, the following options were identified and considered:
1. Build a North-South Taxiway to allow for simultaneous takeoffs and landings on both the North and South Runways.
2. Extend the North Runway by 600 m (2,000 ft) to enable long-range aircraft departures. This would improve efficiency, better balance departure demand between the parallel runways and reduce taxi distances.
3. Implement peak-hour demand management measures (such as pricing mechanisms, quotas, air traffic flow control) to shift arrivals and departures to off-peak periods and other airports.
4. In anticipation of future Transport Canada requirements for extended Runway End Safety Areas (RESA), extend the North and South runways accordingly. Anticipated extension range will be 150-300 m (500-1,000 ft).

Depending on the success of demand management programs and the rate of passenger growth, capacity enhancement initiatives will provide relief to 2023-4 at best. At that time, a new runway may be needed to create additional capacity.


http://www.yvr.ca/Libraries/Who_We_Are/yvr_masterplan.sflb.ashx

It's worth noting that the weight of aircraft on YVR runways is increasing at a greater rate than number of movements. This is due to the proportional increase in wide-bodies calling on the airport. As this trend is likely to continue, passenger throughput will increase at a greater rate than aircraft movements. Now, heavy wide-bodied aircraft produce more wake turbulence than lighter aircraft, which can lower the number of movements per hour on each runway, so part of the YVR air traffic control conundrum is balancing runway utilization for wide-bodied take-offs with smaller/lighter aircraft movements. I'm at the limit of my knowledge, but these considerations are factored into the modelling of runway capacity.

Klazu
Oct 28, 2015, 11:55 PM
Perhaps that they have favourable orientation for prevailing winds?

That's my guess as well. And you are correct about the smoothness.

Perhaps YVR will adopt a Munich-style solution of essentially putting the walkways on the roof? ... They could even potentially employ Siemens' super-fast moving walkway, like those recently installed in YYZ's Terminal 1.

You must be a engineer :haha: but you are righ. The super-fast walkway at YYZ is so cool and I hope to be able to ride it again on my upcoming transit for a flight to Chile.

Walkways are definitely more preferable than people movers. Eventhough normally the waiting times are under 5 minutes, it still gives you unnecessary stress over if you are going to make it. Or maybe it's just me. :P

Klazu
Oct 28, 2015, 11:59 PM
In 2007, 275,000 aircraft used the runways at YVR, either arriving or departing. Aircraft movements for 2014 were 310,139. Projections indicate that by 2027, the airport will need to accommodate 484,000 takeoffs and landings annually.

Wow, talk about estimated growth in only twenty years! Interesting numbers in the context that world's busiest airport Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International serves annually 95 million passengers (nearly five times more than YVR, over 260,000 passengers daily) and has 950,119 flights (only three times more).

How does one explain this, as I though traffic in Atlanta is more about small planes than here at YVR? :???:

Johnny Aussie
Oct 29, 2015, 12:04 AM
Re: third runway.

YVR has three operational runways already. It's just the third one, the crosswind is seldom used these days.

In comparison MEL handles over 32 million pax a year and about 20,000 movements per month expecting about 240,000 annual movements. Also, these are mainly larger commercial aircraft (99.6% of all movements are > 7 tonnes). We survive on two runways that intersect. Surprisingly, delays are quite minimal. They seem to have a great system that allows both runways to be used simultaneously. However, delays are becoming more noticeable due to the rapid growth MEL has seen in the last few years. When the winds are so strong that they are really restricted to the north south runway only, significant delays add up.

A third parallel runway @ MEL is in the planning stages and is expected to be operational by 2020-2022. Thinking well ahead before delays become more severe.

Denscity
Oct 29, 2015, 12:18 AM
I'll take a loss like the replacement daily A-380 all day long!! First world problems! Still stoked about that and will definitely be using it!

Klazu
Oct 29, 2015, 12:20 AM
I have never understood the design with intersecting runways. I understand the idea with different windows, but it seems like a disaster waiting to happen when things are busy.

Klazu
Oct 29, 2015, 12:50 AM
Question: I need to visit YVR for few hours tomorrow and I was wondering if I could park my car at McArthur Glenn and ride the Skytrain for free? I wouldn't want to pay for parking, but I will be with a car...

nname
Oct 29, 2015, 12:51 AM
Unless the runways are parallel, the flight path is going to intersect somewhere? Its probably safer to intersect on the ground than somewhere mid-air, IMO..

Gordon
Oct 29, 2015, 12:55 AM
I would expect that the final phas ot West Chevron will be next because some of the Pre-Load has already being done, and once those 6 gates are in ooeration that the d\\E swing gates would be primarily trans boder4 or 5 mmre gates would serve alot more traffic

any idea if there are plans to improve the Trans boarder c Turbo prop gates

casper
Oct 29, 2015, 6:19 AM
I have never understood the design with intersecting runways. I understand the idea with different windows, but it seems like a disaster waiting to happen when things are busy.

I think it goes back to the days when the airport was serving smaller aircraft that were more sensitive to wind. Many airports that were build during the war were three runways that form a diamond.

Today YVR is handling significantly higher volumes of flights and significantly bigger aircraft than when those runways were first built.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 29, 2015, 3:16 PM
According to this news release.

YVR to PVG will upgauge to a 777 next summer. It's unclear if it will be a 77W or a 77L.

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=933

Hot Rod
Oct 29, 2015, 4:36 PM
Right you are!

Here it is in alphabetical order just because that's easier.

1 Aeromexico
2 Air China
3 Air France
4 Air New Zealand
5 ANA
6 British Airways
7 Cathay Pacific
8 China Airlines
9 China Eastern
10 China Southern
11 Condor*
12 Edelweiss*
13 Eva Air
14 Hainan Airlines
15 Iceland Air*
16 Japan Airlines
17 KLM
18 Korean Airlines
19 Lufthansa
20 Philippine Airlines
21 Qantas*
22 Sichuan Airlines
23 Xiamen Airlines

Hey lefty. Missing China Airlines (to TPE). So that brings us to 24.

Also, we don't have every major city yet until we get Chongqing. I suspect we will get them in 2017 when their massive new T3 opens; the routing likely being CKG-NKG-YVR on China Southern or Eastern, giving us Chingqing AND Nanjing. Once this is finalized and announced, then we can say Vancouver has direct to All major cities in China, the only airport in NA to do so.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 29, 2015, 6:40 PM
Hey lefty. Missing China Airlines (to TPE). So that brings us to 24.

Also, we don't have every major city yet until we get Chongqing. I suspect we will get them in 2017 when their massive new T3 opens; the routing likely being CKG-NKG-YVR on China Southern or Eastern, giving us Chingqing AND Nanjing. Once this is finalized and announced, then we can say Vancouver has direct to All major cities in China, the only airport in NA to do so.

CI is there at #8 :)

Cage
Oct 29, 2015, 7:52 PM
Looks like next summer Air Canada will be de-rouging LAX and SFO.

Right now the scheds are showing mainline on the following:

YVR-LAX 5 daily 320s
YVR-SFO 4 daily 320s
YYC-LAX 2 daily 320s

ANC and LAS are still showing as rouge flights.

ANC and LAS will be "rerouged" in short order. As you know from reading the YYC aiport form, my post from a few days ago stated that AC is closing the A319 rouge base at YVR and all pilots are transferring back to mainline flying. Expect about 8 rouge 319s to transfer to mainline for both exterior and interior.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 29, 2015, 8:46 PM
ANC and LAS will be "rerouged" in short order. As you know from reading the YYC aiport form, my post from a few days ago stated that AC is closing the A319 rouge base at YVR and all pilots are transferring back to mainline flying. Expect about 8 rouge 319s to transfer to mainline for both exterior and interior.

I'm sure you meant de-rouged :)

I reckon all these terms can be added to the Webster's dictionary.

Hot Rod
Oct 30, 2015, 12:34 AM
CI is there at #8 :)

Oooop, you're right JA.

Sorry guys, my eyes got lost with so many 'China' airlines in our list :). Great "problem" for us to have!!!!

QQ, how should we list Air Transat? They also serve a significant amt of traffic and are on the billboards at curbside iirc. What do you guys think, just so our list is accurate?

Johnny Aussie
Oct 30, 2015, 12:48 AM
QQ, how should we list Air Transat? They also serve a significant amt of traffic and are on the billboards at curbside iirc. What do you guys think, just so our list is accurate?

Air Transat has been included in the intercontinental chart a couple of pages back under the No Alliance category.

As for the above list, that is the list of overseas based carriers, so Air Transat is not included as it is based in Canada.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 30, 2015, 1:02 AM
So with the latest developments over the last few days.

Here is a brief summary of intercontinental destinations by equipment for next summer.

As AC is in the process of reconfiguring their 777 fleet I am taking a best case stab at the 777 allocation. And based on the information presented in the press release about relaunching YYZ-ICN.

77W - the "original" 777-300ER config 349 seats - now being reconfig to 400 seats.
77WHD - the High Density 777-300ER being reconfig from 458 seats to 450 seats.
77L - the 777-200LR being reconfig from 270 to 300 seats


77WHD - 450 seats
LHR - Daily
HKG - Daily

77W - 400 seats
PEK - Daily
PVG - Daily (may be a 77L)

77L - 300 seats
SYD - Daily

789 - 298 seats
LHR - Daily

788 - 251 seats
NRT - Daily
ICN - Daily
BNE - 3 weekly

Sheesh! LHR gets more AC intercontinental flights (11 daily) than any other city in Canada except Toronto! ;)

East to West:

YYT: 1 daily 319
YHZ: 1 daily 763
YUL: 1 daily 77W
YOW: 1 daily 763
YYZ: 4 daily 77W/77W/77W/763 (the 763 will most likely be a 788)
YYC: 1 daily 333 (should become a 789)
YVR: 2 daily 77W/789

Klazu
Oct 30, 2015, 3:27 PM
There are quite a few wide-bodies flying YYZ-YVR because their stop in YVR only being a layover on their way to Asia or Australia. Are there any such example on the east coast, i.e. flights departing from YVR, but making a layover in YYZ (or YUL) before continuing to Europe or Africa? Why is that?

Johnny Aussie
Oct 30, 2015, 4:17 PM
Air Canada's press release about the second daily YVR-LHR.

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=935

Also - the second flight will be on the larger 787-9 (298 seats) not the 787-8 as was uploaded in the scheds a couple of days ago. The AC booking engine now reflects the 787-9.

So with the HD 77W and the 787-9, that's 748 seats per day or 5,236 seats per week on AC on YVR-LHR. That's a lot of seats to fill.

Comparing 2014 (when Virgin Atlantic still flew to YVR) with 2016 though, 2016 will still have slightly fewer seats per week on YVR -LHR. However, if you compare the entire London market (including LGW) between 2014 and 2016... Quite a different story thanks to Air Transat increases and the launch of Westjet to LGW:

YVR-LHR 2014 8,621 seats on 24 flights per week BA-12 AC-7 VS-5
YVR-LHR 2016 8,519 seats on 21 flights per week AC-14 BA-7

YVR-LON 2014 10,346 seats on 29 flights per week BA-12 AC-7 VS-5 TS-5
YVR-LON 2016 12,506 seats on 34 flights per week AC-14 BA-7 TS-7 WS-6

Included in this press release is a little blurb about YVR-BNE being moved forward two weeks to June 1st as well.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 30, 2015, 4:23 PM
There are quite a few wide-bodies flying YYZ-YVR because their stop in YVR only being a layover on their way to Asia or Australia. Are there any such example on the east coast, i.e. flights departing from YVR, but making a layover in YYZ (or YUL) before continuing to Europe or Africa? Why is that?

Technically there is only one flight that does a layover in YVR.

YYZ-YVR-SYD-YVR-YYZ on the 77L on AC33/34.

The other wide-bodies on YVR-YYZ (787-8s and 77Ws ) are just really aircraft utilisations. There are no longer any through flights to Asia through YVR nor any through flights to Europe through YYZ or YUL. There is a daily 333 YVR-YUL daily rotation as well.

Klazu
Oct 30, 2015, 5:48 PM
I see. There seems to be so much Dreamliner action on the YVR-YYZ route that I thought it is part of some YYZ route, but I suppose you are right and they are just utilizing those planes to fill their 24-hour cycles. I very much applaud the news that we see more wide-body aircraft on the trans-continental routes (just like in Asia is common).

Nowadays very few larger aircraft seem to fly the same route all the time (BA's two 747s to YVR seem to be the same planes), but just like the linked article on previous page said, planes come from one place and go next somewhere totally else. It must be quite a puzzle to optimize all those movements that when you have hundreds of planes and you want to have plans out months in the future.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 31, 2015, 2:19 AM
Here is a link to the presentation of Craig Richmond, President and CEO of YVR at the Vancouver BOT luncheon on Thursday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpqhvKrcHtw

In regards to key points, I just listened to it passively.

In regards to the Visa Free Travel.... it's still an ongoing work in progress...

However, Mr Richmond's quote regarding this:

"I can tell you that this is going to drive traffic. We are going to have more airlines, I just can't tell you exactly which ones they are right now... but it's generated a lot of interest from both Canadian and International airlines."

I would say Hainan and Xiamen are a given... but who else??

Also, next year they are going to be looking into the next phase(s) of terminal expansions.

Edit: oh yeah... He did specifically mention Delhi as a possible new flight.

trofirhen
Oct 31, 2015, 3:29 AM
Interesting presentation. Good that TWV doesn't seem too far off. It's the South American connections that interest me the most. Biggest gap in YVR 'orange zone,' I think.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 31, 2015, 4:09 AM
Interesting presentation. Good that TWV doesn't seem too far off. It's the South American connections that interest me the most. Biggest gap in YVR 'orange zone,' I think.

Yes, I like his relaxed, more casual style of presenting... He seems a natural.

I used to attend BOT functions all the time and they were generally more "stuffy" (read as boring). This one was definitely not that!
Sounds like big plans in place going forward... YVR definitely taking an aggressive pro-active approach to their future vision and potential.

In regards to the TWOV program... It sounds like ongoing progress is being made but in phases.

Gordon
Oct 31, 2015, 2:32 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if the west chevron completion was the next phase of terminal expansion because some of the ground improvements have been dome. six wide body cates would give them lots more capacity and the current D\E swing gates could become full time trans border gates.


is some work being done in the West Jet Encore area because gate A8 is not being used these days?

trofirhen
Oct 31, 2015, 3:55 PM
Yes, I like his relaxed, more casual style of presenting... He seems a natural.

I used to attend BOT functions all the time and they were generally more "stuffy" (read as boring). This one was definitely not that!
Sounds like big plans in place going forward... YVR definitely taking an aggressive pro-active approach to their future vision and potential.

In regards to the TWOV program... It sounds like ongoing progress is being made but in phases.

Yup, a natural he is. The remark about his brother getting "kicked in the nuts" revealed his rather candid nature!
He stated YVR as an "open source" hub, which implies different airlines, and probably alliances flying into YVR.
Will this much extra distance through YVR impact on fuel economy predictions by airlines, disssaude them, or, conversely, encourage them to
reap the benefits of the massive Asia "connection business" that awaits at YVR?

This contrasts sharply with Air Canada growth plans regarding South America. Everything is hubbed through YYZ, going South. YVR will need bilaterals that permit
TAM, Avianca, LAN Peru, etc to fly and connect here. Again, an "open source hub." But a lucrative one, even if the distances YVR to GRU are normally
150 miles or so longer than through YYZ. (But hey, from Tokyo, it's only 46 miles more, yes!) and I'm talking São Paulo!

One last mention: I heard - briefly -some time back of Craig Richmond having talked about Turkish Airlines (so presumably IST).

This would be a great stop to have as long as it doesn't drag down the Big Four we now have. It's more conducive to our need than DBX, and connects up
with many Balkan and Central Asian states - sources of recent immigration to Canada.
There is also a substantial Turkish comminity, although I imagine such a route as this would have seasonal flight reductions in winter, and more frequency in summer; only normal.

To synthesize all this, I am mentally listing the most important new routes that we don't have now that should be regularly served destinations in ten years, perhaps less in some cases. My choices:

Lima
Santiago
São Paulo
Panama City

Orlando
Atlanta
Miami
Washington DC
Charlotte
Boston
San Diego

Istanbul (?)

Melbourne
Singapore
Kuala Lumpur
Bangkok
Sapporo
Chonquing
Nanjing

Delhi

Half the above seem spoken for anyway. My only fear is that Vancouver is not a big enough O/D market. This is a transit-based hub; I sure hope it works out the way Mr. Richmond dreams it will. take another look at of Bd of Trade video posted by Johnny A. Put video at about 36:00 mn and go from there. pretty ambitous stuff in the following 4 minutes...

Max.
Oct 31, 2015, 7:09 PM
China Southern will operate a new daily route from Shenzhen(SZX) to YVR, get from Chinese social media.

Johnny Aussie
Oct 31, 2015, 8:06 PM
China Southern will operate a new daily route from Shenzhen(SZX) to YVR, get from Chinese social media.

Hi and welcome to SSP :)

Is it possible for you to provide a source or attach a link?

Do you know if an application to the CAAC has been made?

Normally, if the CAAC publicly announce the application, there is a good chance approval is likely. Hence why I'm bullish on both Hainan and Xiamen.

I know CZ plan to start 4 weekly SZX -SYD soon.

A daily SZX - YVR would be a very bold move by them.

CareerShow
Oct 31, 2015, 11:17 PM
Yup, a natural he is. The remark about his brother getting "kicked in the nuts" revealed his rather candid nature!
He stated YVR as an "open source" hub, which implies different airlines, and probably alliances flying into YVR.
Will this much extra distance through YVR impact on fuel economy predictions by airlines, disssaude them, or, conversely, encourage them to
reap the benefits of the massive Asia "connection business" that awaits at YVR?

This contrasts sharply with Air Canada growth plans regarding South America. Everything is hubbed through YYZ, going South. YVR will need bilaterals that permit
TAM, Avianca, LAN Peru, etc to fly and connect here. Again, an "open source hub." But a lucrative one, even if the distances YVR to GRU are normally
150 miles or so longer than through YYZ. (But hey, from Tokyo, it's only 46 miles more, yes!) and I'm talking São Paulo!

One last mention: I heard - briefly -some time back of Craig Richmond having talked about Turkish Airlines (so presumably IST).

This would be a great stop to have as long as it doesn't drag down the Big Four we now have. It's more conducive to our need than DBX, and connects up
with many Balkan and Central Asian states - sources of recent immigration to Canada.
There is also a substantial Turkish comminity, although I imagine such a route as this would have seasonal flight reductions in winter, and more frequency in summer; only normal.

To synthesize all this, I am mentally listing the most important new routes that we don't have now that should be regularly served destinations in ten years, perhaps less in some cases. My choices:

Lima
Santiago
São Paulo
Panama City

Orlando
Atlanta
Miami
Washington DC
Charlotte
Boston
San Diego

Istanbul (?)

Melbourne
Singapore
Kuala Lumpur
Bangkok
Sapporo
Chonquing
Nanjing

Delhi

Half the above seem spoken for anyway. My only fear is that Vancouver is not a big enough O/D market. This is a transit-based hub; I sure hope it works out the way Mr. Richmond dreams it will. take another look at of Bd of Trade video posted by Johnny A. Put video at about 36:00 mn and go from there. pretty ambitous stuff in the following 4 minutes...
I think your list of destinations is a little ambitious for ten years. Also YVR now has at least seasonal service to DC, Orlando and Atlanta.

trofirhen
Nov 1, 2015, 12:03 AM
I think your list of destinations is a little ambitious for ten years. Also YVR now has at least seasonal service to DC, Orlando and Atlanta.
Are there any at all in that list that you could see in ten years? Really. I'd like to know your opinion(s). Thank you for your time and consideration.:):)

Johnny Aussie
Nov 1, 2015, 3:37 AM
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data_prov/201509/September_2015_Provisional_International_Routes.pdf

Following on August's strong results, YVR-UK routes had an exceptionally healthy September as well. Remember this is only in relation to seats filled... yields? Who knows?

Comparisons are to September 2014.

LGW was the real standout. Growth of over 5,500 passengers (50% increase).
Air Transat filled over 96% of its seats in September.

LHR lost just over 10,000 pax... But obviously that is due entirely to the pullout of Virgin Atlantic. LF on LHR was still an impressive 92%.

GLA was another stellar performer. Growth of 23% was mainly due to one additional flight in September the way the days fell. LF was over 91%.

MAN was pretty stagnant. LF of over 89% and total pax count of ~ 4,900. Pretty much the same as last year. A difference of 30 pax!

Obviously next year we will see huge growth on LHR and LGW but how will the load factors turn out...??

In any event, I can see why WS is getting in on YVR-LGW in a bigger way than I originally would have thought.

Let the bloodbath begin!

deasine
Nov 1, 2015, 9:27 AM
Trofirhen, I thought I answer your TWOV enquiry here instead of via PM. When ever you need to go through a change in policies with government, it takes time. Hopefully the upcoming change in government may speed it up more due to their "more relaxed" position in immigration. I'm going through something similar with a different set of airports, different set of countries, and different travel market but its a slow process.

What I can say is this is easier to act in some airports than others. Unusually there is a generation of airports right now in Canada where Intl and Domestic share the same departure space, meaning a passenger on an Intl flight can theoretically leave and reenter back into the country without going through Immigration. YUL has this configuration which I find odd brcause domestuc and intl share the same security, just the flights on different oiers with no access control in between. Now of course the TWOV is a complwtely separate facility but there are also logistical challgnes like requiring escorts for passengers. When you have multiple flights that is incredibly resource intensive. With YVR, at least there is no possible backtracking for international passengers given there is access control required between different areas but remember we are developing a national policy, not a local policy.

Johnny Aussie
Nov 1, 2015, 9:58 AM
Sounds like a SkyTeam Lounge is being planned for YVR.

Source - http://www.wcarn.com/news/48/48373.html

See the third to last paragraph.

SkyTeam carriers seem to have a long term growth plan with YVR.

So users would be KLM, Air France, China Airlines, Korean Air, China Eastern, China Southern, Xiamen and Aeromexico.

CareerShow
Nov 1, 2015, 11:56 AM
Are there any at all in that list that you could see in ten years? Really. I'd like to know your opinion(s). Thank you for your time and consideration.:):)
If I were to make realistic guesses I could see AC starting Frankfurt, Melbourne, and Guangzhao. Can't see many expansions within NA. With Rouge, maybe some leisure routes such as smaller asian cities like Nagoya. Cant see much more european expansion. I could realistically see a Delhi route as well on AC mainline.

With Westjet who knows where they will expand internationally, but I could see leisure Asian destinations such as Tokyo, Osaka, Seoul, and I read somewhere they were thinking of launching into the south pacific, so maybe Tahiti, Australlia, NZ? and in NA I could see westjet launching San Diego, Seattle, Portland, New York as well as increase frequencies to currently served destinations.

With the US carriers I could agree with you and see a flight to Boston, however I don't know if there is enough traffic to sustain routes to the US east coast. Increased seasonal service to DC, Atlanta, Detroit, and maybe Philadelphia, and Charlotte, depending on what American does with those two hubs. United serves YVR pretty well from all of their hubs

With Asian carriers the possibilities are endless but there is a lot of belief xiamen and Hainan airlines will begin service to YVR. Asiana to Seoul would be highly possible. In honesty though YVR is pretty well served into Asia, but frequency increases will most likely be the expansion. Already in the last 5 years we have seen AC, China airlines, Eva Airlines, China Eastern, Air China, China Southern etc. either begin service and/or up gauge equipment and increase frequency.

In the South Pacific Qantas appears to be increasing their flights to Sydney sequentially, and will most likely go year round when their fleet allows it (ie. receiving their 787). Other than that YVR is pretty well served from the South Pacific.

As for European carriers, increase in frequency and equipment will most likely be the expansion for YVR. I honestly believe YVR is served by most of the big airlines in Europe as well as the largest HUBS. The only area YVR is missing is Scandinavia, where I could see SAS maybe launching Copenhagen. Other expansion would most likely be to smaller tourist destinations such as Venice, or Athens by an airline such as Air Transat.

South America/Central America is a tough one. Its a stretch, but I could see Panama City serviced by Copa airlines, Avianca to Bogata, Lan to Lima, and Lan to Santiago. I think more likely honestly is an Asian carrier launching fifth freedom flights from YVR to any seven cities, from most likely to least likely, of Lima, Santiago, Rio, Sao Paulo, Bogota, Buenos Aires, Santiago.

I dont foresee any african destinations.

trofirhen
Nov 1, 2015, 1:40 PM
Thank you for the feedback.
I never expeted anything from Africa at all. It was South America I was interested in more than anything else, as well as more extensive US coverage.

whatnext
Nov 1, 2015, 4:38 PM
With Liberals now in Ottawa, the proposed jet fuel pipeline may be delayed, as it was never popular with most Richmond residents:
http://www.richmond-news.com/news/jet-fuel-facility-delay-with-new-liberal-regime-1.2099579

dharper
Nov 1, 2015, 10:28 PM
Is there anyplace I can find a recent drawing of the proposed expansions at YVR? The only ones I can find are from the 20 year plan dated 2007-2027. Also is there any drawings of the proposed , North-South taxiway? I am curious to see how it would look.

Genauso
Nov 2, 2015, 12:44 AM
A neat article about Air Canada's 787 operations and maintenance schedule, featuring YVR

Skies Mag -- Dream Team: Air Canada takes a 'pit crew' approach to 787 maintenance
By Brent Jang (http://skiesmag.com/news/article/DreamTeamAirCanadatakesapitcrewapproachto787maintenance)
At 10:31 a.m. during a recent weekday, one of Air Canada’s Boeing 787-8 Dreamliners touched down at Vancouver International Airport from Tokyo’s Narita Airport.

At 11:33 a.m., another Dreamliner landed at the international terminal, known to travellers locally by its airport code, YVR. This flight originated in Shanghai.

It wouldn’t be too long before another 787-8 reached YVR, this time at 12:48 p.m., from Seoul.

In each instance, Air Canada deployed staff to methodically conduct maintenance checks on the wide-body planes. While other international carriers routinely assign two workers to carry out a series of maintenance tasks, Air Canada has opted for a “pit crew” concept for its Dreamliners, with five to eight employees descending on each arriving aircraft.

Having more employees on hand results in a speedier turnaround, which is good for passengers and boosts aircraft utilization, according to Alan Butterfield, the carrier’s vice president of maintenance and engineering.

“Utilization of your fleet is hugely important,” Butterfield said in an interview at YVR. While it takes time for passengers to exit and board planes, it’s busy behind the scenes, too. An array of airline staff, contractors and other workers handle everything from maintenance duties to refuelling to checking the flight deck.

Each Dreamliner pit crew consists of two licensed aircraft technicians, two licensed avionics engineers and a “trim and finish” mechanic, at a minimum. Another specialty worker often on hand is an in-flight entertainment technician, who troubleshoots the seat-back screens.

The end result is that Air Canada is able to turn around a Dreamliner in 80 minutes, compared with other carriers that might take two hours, Butterfield estimated.

Hours before a plane lands, information is being transmitted from the 787 to Air Canada’s maintenance crew via “advance health monitoring,” he noted.

Butterfield says it’s worthwhile to have more employees focus on the 787’s daily maintenance because there is a ripple effect if the plane isn’t ready in time. Potentially, it could mean that a Boeing 777, if one is available, might have to be assigned to take over a 787’s mission.

“The 777s are already flying 16.5 hours a day,” he said, emphasizing that there are challenges when bringing in a replacement plane if the 787 is delayed on the ground.

Butterfield is considering extending the 787 pit crew maintenance idea to Air Canada’s 777 fleet, possibly in 2016.

The Dreamliner made its debut at Air Canada in May 2014. The airline developed the pit crew concept earlier in 2015 and rolled it out in June.

At the time of writing, Air Canada had eight 251-seat Boeing 787-8s in its fleet and two of the longer-range 787-9s, which seat 298 passengers. Another 27 of the larger Dreamliners are scheduled to be delivered to Canada’s largest airline by 2019.

The 787-9 has a range of 15,372 kilometres, compared with the 787-8’s 14,500 kilometres.

From Vancouver, the carrier flies to and from Tokyo’s Narita Airport, Seoul, Shanghai and Beijing. From Toronto, the route map includes Tel Aviv, Copenhagen, Narita Airport, Munich, Milan and London Heathrow. Dubai and Delhi are scheduled to be added to the Toronto flight schedule in early November, serviced by 787-9s.

Scheduling flights requires much advancing planning because of the many tasks that need to be completed, not only by the pit crew but also others such as catering, refuelling and ground-handling staff, said Pierre Plourde, an aircraft maintenance engineer.

He drives around a white van that has been designated specifically for 787 maintenance and engineering needs, including items such as spare seat belts in case there is a problem with one on board. Another nearby truck carries a nitrogen tank in the back for aircraft tire-pressure duties.

Wearing a bright orange vest on the ramp, Plourde points to a worker whose job is to fill the plane with fuel. Refuelling alone can take 35 minutes. To make the flight from Vancouver to Narita, the Dreamliner carries roughly 49.8 tonnes of jet fuel, which translates into 62,500 litres.

Brian Thomson, general manager of line maintenance for Western Canada, explained that co-ordination is crucial in making the pit crew process work smoothly at Vancouver International Airport and Toronto’s Pearson International Airport. Details range from verifying engine oil levels to reviewing log books in an array of required checks.

“The schedule is built for the 787 to fly 18.5 hours a day for eight days before an overnight visit for a 12-hour, in-depth maintenance layover. It is very important to be pro-active on the daily turnarounds, and we put 22 people on the layovers for the longer maintenance checks,” Thomson said.
It isn’t a simple matter of flying planes back and forth.

Each of the 787-8s that landed in Vancouver got sent to an overseas destination different from the one where the jet originated. The plane from Narita ended up being sent to Shanghai. The jet from Shanghai had Seoul for its next mission, and the aircraft from Seoul got assigned to fly to Narita in a carefully orchestrated flight schedule, said Michael Perucho, Air Canada’s manager of continuous improvement."]At 10:31 a.m. during a recent weekday, one of Air Canada’s Boeing 787-8 Dreamliners touched down at Vancouver International Airport from Tokyo’s Narita Airport.

At 11:33 a.m., another Dreamliner landed at the international terminal, known to travellers locally by its airport code, YVR. This flight originated in Shanghai.

It wouldn’t be too long before another 787-8 reached YVR, this time at 12:48 p.m., from Seoul.

In each instance, Air Canada deployed staff to methodically conduct maintenance checks on the wide-body planes. While other international carriers routinely assign two workers to carry out a series of maintenance tasks, Air Canada has opted for a “pit crew” concept for its Dreamliners, with five to eight employees descending on each arriving aircraft.

Having more employees on hand results in a speedier turnaround, which is good for passengers and boosts aircraft utilization, according to Alan Butterfield, the carrier’s vice president of maintenance and engineering.

“Utilization of your fleet is hugely important,” Butterfield said in an interview at YVR. While it takes time for passengers to exit and board planes, it’s busy behind the scenes, too. An array of airline staff, contractors and other workers handle everything from maintenance duties to refuelling to checking the flight deck.

Each Dreamliner pit crew consists of two licensed aircraft technicians, two licensed avionics engineers and a “trim and finish” mechanic, at a minimum. Another specialty worker often on hand is an in-flight entertainment technician, who troubleshoots the seat-back screens.

The end result is that Air Canada is able to turn around a Dreamliner in 80 minutes, compared with other carriers that might take two hours, Butterfield estimated.

Hours before a plane lands, information is being transmitted from the 787 to Air Canada’s maintenance crew via “advance health monitoring,” he noted.

Butterfield says it’s worthwhile to have more employees focus on the 787’s daily maintenance because there is a ripple effect if the plane isn’t ready in time. Potentially, it could mean that a Boeing 777, if one is available, might have to be assigned to take over a 787’s mission.

“The 777s are already flying 16.5 hours a day,” he said, emphasizing that there are challenges when bringing in a replacement plane if the 787 is delayed on the ground.
Butterfield is considering extending the 787 pit crew maintenance idea to Air Canada’s 777 fleet, possibly in 2016.

The Dreamliner made its debut at Air Canada in May 2014. The airline developed the pit crew concept earlier in 2015 and rolled it out in June.

At the time of writing, Air Canada had eight 251-seat Boeing 787-8s in its fleet and two of the longer-range 787-9s, which seat 298 passengers. Another 27 of the larger Dreamliners are scheduled to be delivered to Canada’s largest airline by 2019.

The 787-9 has a range of 15,372 kilometres, compared with the 787-8’s 14,500 kilometres.

From Vancouver, the carrier flies to and from Tokyo’s Narita Airport, Seoul, Shanghai and Beijing. From Toronto, the route map includes Tel Aviv, Copenhagen, Narita Airport, Munich, Milan and London Heathrow. Dubai and Delhi are scheduled to be added to the Toronto flight schedule in early November, serviced by 787-9s.
Scheduling flights requires much advancing planning because of the many tasks that need to be completed, not only by the pit crew but also others such as catering, refuelling and ground-handling staff, said Pierre Plourde, an aircraft maintenance engineer.

He drives around a white van that has been designated specifically for 787 maintenance and engineering needs, including items such as spare seat belts in case there is a problem with one on board. Another nearby truck carries a nitrogen tank in the back for aircraft tire-pressure duties.

Wearing a bright orange vest on the ramp, Plourde points to a worker whose job is to fill the plane with fuel. Refuelling alone can take 35 minutes. To make the flight from Vancouver to Narita, the Dreamliner carries roughly 49.8 tonnes of jet fuel, which translates into 62,500 litres.

Brian Thomson, general manager of line maintenance for Western Canada, explained that co-ordination is crucial in making the pit crew process work smoothly at Vancouver International Airport and Toronto’s Pearson International Airport. Details range from verifying engine oil levels to reviewing log books in an array of required checks.

“The schedule is built for the 787 to fly 18.5 hours a day for eight days before an overnight visit for a 12-hour, in-depth maintenance layover. It is very important to be pro-active on the daily turnarounds, and we put 22 people on the layovers for the longer maintenance checks,” Thomson said.
It isn’t a simple matter of flying planes back and forth.

Each of the 787-8s that landed in Vancouver got sent to an overseas destination different from the one where the jet originated. The plane from Narita ended up being sent to Shanghai. The jet from Shanghai had Seoul for its next mission, and the aircraft from Seoul got assigned to fly to Narita in a carefully orchestrated flight schedule, said Michael Perucho, Air Canada’s manager of continuous improvement.

red-paladin
Nov 2, 2015, 6:44 AM
Is there anyplace I can find a recent drawing of the proposed expansions at YVR? The only ones I can find are from the 20 year plan dated 2007-2027. Also is there any drawings of the proposed , North-South taxiway? I am curious to see how it would look.

The 2027 plan is the current one.

A new plan is being created:
"YVR is currently updating our Master Plan and is seeking input from our community, partners and stakeholders to help shape the future of YVR. Find out how you can participate at YVR2057.ca "

Hopefully many of our members will contribute there!


A nice high res destinations map on that site also:

http://yvrconnects.ca.engagementhq.com/system/redactor_assets/assets/9c8dc70f1a168667bae0cec16f055b36a91fc9c6/000/000/447/original/YVR_MP_Graphic_-_2015_03_26_Globe_2015.png?1431102545