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LeftCoaster
Dec 2, 2015, 12:52 AM
20 is nearly guaranteed. It would take a drop of over 5% in Nov and Dec pax to not hit 20 million. 20.3 and change is around where we will end up.

At this point 21 million is more or less impossible. It would take growth of 28.8% in Nov and Dec to hit 21... so ya that's not going to happen.

Either way really pleased with 6.0% growth, especially when you take out the laggard domestic numbers, which puts growth at 9.5%.

Also I wonder what the 20% growth in misc is. Is that sun flying?

trofirhen
Dec 2, 2015, 1:23 AM
20 is nearly guaranteed. It would take a drop of over 5% in Nov and Dec pax to not hit 20 million. 20.3 and change is around where we will end up. .................
At this point 21 million is more or less impossible. It would take growth of 28.8% in Nov and Dec to hit 21... so ya that's not going to happen.
.............................
Also I wonder what the 20% growth in misc is. Is that sun flying?
I think much of it is. That, and holiday charters perhaps.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 3, 2015, 8:39 PM
http://yvr.ca/en/flight-information/latest-information/15-12-01/There_s_an_App_for_That_at_YVR.aspx

Just downloaded the new YVR app and have had a bit of a play with it.

Neat feature is the map... It's shows models in real time of various aircraft at each gate with flight info etc.... Fun stuff!

Download it and have a play! Going to see what else it can do....

Should come in handy on my next trip there in just a couple of weeks :)

Alpine
Dec 3, 2015, 11:36 PM
There was a thread on Reddit about YVR's new destinations, and the question of why there is no direct YVR-DEL or YVR-DXB came up.

On the subject of DXB, could EK even compete with the indirect fares through Europe, considering there's so much TATL competition? BA is offering $950 YVR-DXB fares via Heathrow (which is cheaper than YVR-SEA-DXB via EK with the weak loonie), and KLM will probably try to compete with that.

The two destinations I'm really excited about are San Diego and San Jose. San Diego because it's been a long time coming, and San Jose because it's the heart of Silicon Valley and this could be good news for Vancouver's burgeoning high tech industry.

Klazu
Dec 3, 2015, 11:44 PM
Also Air Canada has been having good deals for Dubai recently, to celebrate their new YYZ-DXB route. I remember seeing prices below $950 from YVR (via YYZ).

trofirhen
Dec 3, 2015, 11:50 PM
There was a thread on Reddit about YVR's new destinations, and the question of why there is no direct YVR-DEL or YVR-DXB came up.

On the subject of DXB, could EK even compete with the indirect fares through Europe, considering there's so much TATL competition? BA is offering $950 YVR-DXB fares via Heathrow (which is cheaper than YVR-SEA-DXB via EK with the weak loonie), and KLM will probably try to compete with that.

The two destinations I'm really excited about are San Diego and San Jose. San Diego because it's been a long time coming, and San Jose because it's the heart of Silicon Valley and this could be good news for Vancouver's burgeoning high tech industry.
DXB is right over the pole from YVR and is a long flight. anything to the east arches over the Pacific, which is why there are so many India-bound pax on flights to China.
I think Istanbul (IST) would serve YVR much better, but Ottawa has arranged the bilateral so that YYZ gets Turkish and AC (both*A) several times a day, once for YUL.

And hey! yes, great to have San Jose back, as well as beautiful San Diego. (memories, memories...)

Klazu
Dec 3, 2015, 11:58 PM
I have been recently eyeing for some deals to Asia and China Eastern Airlines has been coming up a lot with great deals through PVG. I have never flown with any of the Chinese airlines, but reviews for MU and PVG as a transit point are pretty poor. Many of their flights onwards are also onboard Shanghai Airlines which has even worse reviews.

Interesting thing to note has been how bad connections MU's YVR flight has in PVG. Most of the major destinations I have been looking at require 7 hour transit, which is quite a long layover. Doesn't seem very convenient unless you are traveling to Shanghai directly... :(

trofirhen
Dec 4, 2015, 12:02 AM
I have been recently eyeing for some deals to Asia and China Eastern Airlines has been coming up a lot with great deals through PVG. I have never flown with any of the Chinese airlines, but reviews for MU and PVG as a transit point are pretty poor. Many of their flights onwards are also onboard Shanghai Airlines which has even worse reviews.

Interesting thing to note has been how bad connections MU's YVR flight has in PVG. Most of the major destinations I have been looking at require 7 hour transit, which is quite a long layover. Doesn't seem very convenient unless you are traveling to Shanghai directly... :(
Hmmmmm. A real downer. I wonder if Air canada could/would do YVR-DEL on Rouge? Nah... and besides they'd need a better plane than a 767.

Alpine
Dec 4, 2015, 12:04 AM
I have been recently eyeing for some deals to Asia and China Eastern Airlines has been coming up a lot with great deals through PVG. I have never flown with any of the Chinese airlines, but reviews for MU and PVG as a transit point are pretty poor.

I've always wanted to visit Dubai and India, and one of my biggest issues with flights to India is that the cheapest fares are on crappy airlines and transiting through crappy airports. (In this case, China Eastern via Shanghai, China Southern via Guangzhou, Air China via Beijing). CX837/CX889 don't line up very well with the HKG-DEL connections, transiting through Tokyo requires a 1 day layover or long train/limousine bus ride from HND to NRT, and TPE-DEL flights are not daily.

So for a balance of cost and service, that leaves AC/AI codeshare through Heathrow (Air India also sucks, so I've heard), AC through YYZ, or LH/KL via FRA or AMS (which is pricey).

Sigh...

vanlaw
Dec 4, 2015, 12:12 AM
I have been recently eyeing for some deals to Asia and China Eastern Airlines has been coming up a lot with great deals through PVG. I have never flown with any of the Chinese airlines, but reviews for MU and PVG as a transit point are pretty poor. Many of their flights onwards are also onboard Shanghai Airlines which has even worse reviews.

Interesting thing to note has been how bad connections MU's YVR flight has in PVG. Most of the major destinations I have been looking at require 7 hour transit, which is quite a long layover. Doesn't seem very convenient unless you are traveling to Shanghai directly... :(

Although they don't come in as cheap as some of the Chinese carriers, we had a really good experience on China Airlines (Taiwanese, not Chinese) transiting through Taipei a few years back. Flying in economy the comfort, entertainment, food etc. wasn't any worse than KLM, BA, AC or LH to Europe, and TPE was a pleasant airport to transit through. We had an 8 hr layover on the way home and there were plenty of express bus connections into the city (maybe the metro goes all the way to the airport now) to do some sightseeing and have dinner at one of the night markets.

I've also heard really good things about EVA through Taipei.

trofirhen
Dec 4, 2015, 12:15 AM
I've always wanted to visit Dubai and India, and one of my biggest issues with flights to India is that the cheapest fares are on crappy airlines and transiting through crappy airports. (In this case, China Eastern via Shanghai, China Southern via Guangzhou, Air China via Beijing). CX837/CX889 don't line up very well with the HKG-DEL connections, transiting through Tokyo requires a 1 day layover or long train/limousine bus ride from HND to NRT, and TPE-DEL flights are not daily.

So for a balance of cost and service, that leaves AC/AI codeshare through Heathrow (Air India also sucks, so I've heard), AC through YYZ, or LH/KL via FRA or AMS (which is pricey).

Sigh...
If, by any chance, a bilateral goes through, what about Jet Airways? Seems from what I've heard to be a bit cleaner than Air India, if nothing else.
Anyway, they are planning a major expansion. (Is there some snarl-up with them at the moment? Please tell me if so) Thank you.
They already codeshare with Air Canada

Klazu
Dec 4, 2015, 12:49 AM
Although they don't come in as cheap as some of the Chinese carriers, we had a really good experience on China Airlines (Taiwanese, not Chinese) transiting through Taipei a few years back.

Yeah, China Airlines, EVA Air and of course Cathay Pacific are all good airlines, but unfortunately they don't seem to come out very cheap. I have seen some good deals on JAL through NRT this fall, but mostly it is the Chinese airlines offering the sub-$1000 deals to Asian megacities.

I could also consider flying China Southern Airlines via Guangzhou, as they fly a 787 to Vancouver and Guangzhou offers a 72 visa-free transit, which is pretty cool. Transiting in China does generally sound overtly cumbersome due to their visa system, although I have to admit that I have not looked into it in detail when transiting.

Would love to find something nice still before Christmas, but time is running short... :(

vanlaw
Dec 4, 2015, 12:55 AM
Yeah, China Airlines, EVA Air and of course Cathay Pacific are all good airlines, but unfortunately they don't seem to come out very cheap. I have seen some good deals on JAL through NRT this fall, but mostly it is the Chinese airlines offering the sub-$1000 deals to Asian megacities.

I could also consider flying China Southern Airlines via Guangzhou, as they fly a 787 to Vancouver and Guangzhou offers a 72 visa-free transit, which is pretty cool. Transiting in China does generally sound overtly cumbersome due to their visa system, although I have to admit that I have not looked into it in detail when transiting.

Would love to find something nice still before Christmas, but time is running short... :(

Wow..ya. Just checked some random itineraries ion ITA ad they came out more than Cathay in some instances. When we flew with them a few years back they were significantly cheaper than the rest.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 4, 2015, 1:14 AM
There are sooooooo many one-stop options to South Asia, South-East Asia, and Asia in general. But yes, have to factor in all the criteria: cost, comfort, time, alliances, freq flyer miles etc... Good luck!

We are flying Air China soon via PEK. It's been five years since we've done that. Almost always fly Star Alliance so thought we'd give them a go again especially now the MEL-PEK leg is nonstop and no longer via PVG.

With the 72-hour visa free thing as well we are doing two nights in PEK each way. Depending on the air quality index when we arrive will depend on how much we do! Last time in PEK the first thing I remember stepping off the plane was the smell of coal smoke.

CareerShow
Dec 4, 2015, 6:15 AM
There are sooooooo many one-stop options to South Asia, South-East Asia, and Asia in general. But yes, have to factor in all the criteria: cost, comfort, time, alliances, freq flyer miles etc... Good luck!

We are flying Air China soon via PEK. It's been five years since we've done that. Almost always fly Star Alliance so thought we'd give them a go again especially now the MEL-PEK leg is nonstop and no longer via PVG.

With the 72-hour visa free thing as well we are doing two nights in PEK each way. Depending on the air quality index when we arrive will depend on how much we do! Last time in PEK the first thing I remember stepping off the plane was the smell of coal smoke.
PEK is a nice airport. Depending on the wind Beijing can be quite nice!

Hourglass
Dec 4, 2015, 8:09 AM
I have been recently eyeing for some deals to Asia and China Eastern Airlines has been coming up a lot with great deals through PVG. I have never flown with any of the Chinese airlines, but reviews for MU and PVG as a transit point are pretty poor. Many of their flights onwards are also onboard Shanghai Airlines which has even worse reviews.

Interesting thing to note has been how bad connections MU's YVR flight has in PVG. Most of the major destinations I have been looking at require 7 hour transit, which is quite a long layover. Doesn't seem very convenient unless you are traveling to Shanghai directly... :(

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't recommend MU (although my experience has been more domestic and Shanghai - Hong Kong flights). Lot's of war stories to share about traveling on that airline...

The problem with Chinese airlines in general and transiting through China in particular is that if there are delays (or given the fact that Chinese airspace is very congested, **when** there are delays), little to no information is given to passengers. This is made worse by the fact that the level of English spoken by airline and airport staff can be very bad. Because of the lack of information and perennial flight delays, my friends in China actually use a smartphone app (can't remember the name) to track flight arrival / departure and gate changes as this is more reliable than the information they receive at the airport. Unfortunately, this is all in Chinese, so if you don't speak the language, you're out of luck. It's better in PEK and PVG than other Chinese airports, but I'd choose Japan, Korea or Hong Kong over China as a transit point any day of the month, even if I have to pay a bit more.

We are flying Air China soon via PEK. It's been five years since we've done that. Almost always fly Star Alliance so thought we'd give them a go again especially now the MEL-PEK leg is nonstop and no longer via PVG.

With the 72-hour visa free thing as well we are doing two nights in PEK each way. Depending on the air quality index when we arrive will depend on how much we do! Last time in PEK the first thing I remember stepping off the plane was the smell of coal smoke.

Beijing's coming off a day with the worst air quality on record. Hope it clears up for your trip. You'll likely smell the same coal smoke as charcoal is still sometimes used for cooking (and heating in the winter).

Vagabond
Dec 4, 2015, 9:34 PM
If, by any chance, a bilateral goes through, what about Jet Airways? Seems from what I've heard to be a bit cleaner than Air India, if nothing else.
Anyway, they are planning a major expansion. (Is there some snarl-up with them at the moment? Please tell me if so) Thank you.
They already codeshare with Air Canada

Jet Airways is now partly-owned by Etihad, who are slowly but surely turning them into a feeder airline (funneling international passengers through Abu Dhabi). They will continue to have a significant presence in India and intra-Asia, but I can't see them targeting North America or Europe for new routes anytime soon.

Air Canada does codeshare with Jet, but the flip side is that AC's new YYZ-DEL non-stop flight could very well kill off Jet's own DEL-BRU-YYZ route. Plus the AC/9W codeshare flight timings via LHR aren't that great (long layovers in both directions to/from YVR).

casper
Dec 5, 2015, 5:43 PM
Jet Airways is now partly-owned by Etihad, who are slowly but surely turning them into a feeder airline (funneling international passengers through Abu Dhabi). They will continue to have a significant presence in India and intra-Asia, but I can't see them targeting North America or Europe for new routes anytime soon.

Air Canada does codeshare with Jet, but the flip side is that AC's new YYZ-DEL non-stop flight could very well kill off Jet's own DEL-BRU-YYZ route. Plus the AC/9W codeshare flight timings via LHR aren't that great (long layovers in both directions to/from YVR).

Air Canada also has a code share agreement with Etihad. All three airlines appear to like working with each other. At least from the outside, who knows what goes on behind the scenes.

Despite the fact that Heathow is a messed up airport (congested and all that) it probably is still the best place Air Canada and Jet to hand-off passengers between their two networks. More connections on the Canada end and the same two as is available in BRU. In BRU the only dots that get connected on the Canada side is Toronto (with Jet) and Montreal (with AC).

I did check times, but Dubai may also be a good point for connections between the Air Canada flight from Toronto and some of the regional centres in India on Jet.

Cage
Dec 5, 2015, 7:25 PM
Hmmmmm. A real downer. I wonder if Air canada could/would do YVR-DEL on Rouge? Nah... and besides they'd need a better plane than a 767.

Zero chance of YVR-DEL on rouge,Only the 787 and 777 can make the trip and AC is not putting those aircraft into rouge.

YYZ-DEL is now running and AC is learning lots about the specifics of operating the flight. One lesson learned is the high number of wheelchair pax, in some cases it is over 100 wheelchairs required on departure or arrival at YYZ. This has an operational and cost impact to route profitability. The high number of wheelchair pax might dissipate over time or only be a seasonal phenom. For the record, UA's 2 EWR-India flights do not have the same number of wheelchairs.

Network connectivity is another lesson that AC will have to learn. Is the YYZ-DEL flight a major contributor to network profitability?

I suspect that AC will enter into 12-18 month learning period for nonstops to India before going for a second city of multiple nonstop flights.

Vagabond
Dec 5, 2015, 9:50 PM
Zero chance of YVR-DEL on rouge,Only the 787 and 777 can make the trip and AC is not putting those aircraft into rouge.

YYZ-DEL is now running and AC is learning lots about the specifics of operating the flight. One lesson learned is the high number of wheelchair pax, in some cases it is over 100 wheelchairs required on departure or arrival at YYZ. This has an operational and cost impact to route profitability. The high number of wheelchair pax might dissipate over time or only be a seasonal phenom. For the record, UA's 2 EWR-India flights do not have the same number of wheelchairs.

Network connectivity is another lesson that AC will have to learn. Is the YYZ-DEL flight a major contributor to network profitability?

I suspect that AC will enter into 12-18 month learning period for nonstops to India before going for a second city of multiple nonstop flights.

Hahaha!! We see the wheelchair "fleet" every time we fly to/from India. UA might not have the same problem at EWR but I have witnessed this phenomenon at several international airports. My (Indian) Mother-in-Law jokes about the Grannies who feign exhaustion, etc. to get wheelchair service when it's convenient, only to leap up, jostle, and run to be the first to get through immigration. ;)

trofirhen
Dec 5, 2015, 10:39 PM
Zero chance of YVR-DEL on rouge,Only the 787 and 777 can make the trip and AC is not putting those aircraft into rouge.

YYZ-DEL is now running and AC is learning lots about the specifics of operating the flight....

Network connectivity is another lesson that AC will have to learn. Is the YYZ-DEL flight a major contributor to network profitability?

I suspect that AC will enter into 12-18 month learning period for nonstops to India before going for a second city of multiple nonstop flights.

Might that 'second city' be YVR? .................

Anyway, that high number of wheelchairs says a lot. It says that there are a high number of challenged - may I say aged people taking this route.
** oooooops, someone mentioned it first !!- - -
This not a high yield market, it's a family reunion oriented market (although I am sure many Frequent Flyer types would use it,too).
It's going to be a number of years before a nonstop YVR-DEL.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 6, 2015, 8:01 AM
Whether none or all of these happen, here is the summary in order of application date:

Hainan Airlines
Notice of application: Jun 2015
Intended start date: Jun 2016
Route: TSN-YVR
Frequency: 5 weekly
Equipment: 332
http://www.chinaaviationdaily.com/news/45/45444.html

Xiamen Airlines
Notice of application: Oct 2015
Intended start date: Jul 2016
Route: XMN-YVR
Frequency: 4 weekly
Equipment: 788
http://www.chinaaviationdaily.com/news/48/48218.html

Tianjin Airlines
Notice of application: Nov 2015
Intended start date: Jun 2016
Route: CKG-TSN-YVR
Frequency: 4 weekly
Equipment: 332
http://www.chinaaviationdaily.com/news/48/48824.html

Beijing Capital Airlines
Notice of application: Nov 2015
Intended start date: Nov 2016
Route: HGH-TAO-YVR
Frequency: 3 weekly
Equipment: 332
http://www.chinaaviationdaily.com/news/48/48996.html

Johnny Aussie
Dec 7, 2015, 2:29 AM
The latest addition is a second daily rouge flight to LAS.

A new daily morning flight on a 763 will operate next summer.

That's a crazy amount of capacity being added. I never figured summer travel to LAS would warrant such a large amount of seats.

So a daily 319 and a daily 763 on the YVR-LAS route.

This 763 will rotate through with the Hawaii flights next summer.

trofirhen
Dec 7, 2015, 2:39 AM
The latest addition is a second daily rouge flight to LAS.

A new daily morning flight on a 763 will operate next summer.

That's a crazy amount of capacity being added. I never figured summer travel to LAS would warrant such a large amount of seats.

So a daily 319 and a daily 763 on the YVR-LAS route.

This 763 will rotate through with the Hawaii flights next summer.
Great news, but I wonder if the low-value loonie might somewhat put the brakes on this route

Cage
Dec 7, 2015, 2:39 AM
The latest addition is a second daily rouge flight to LAS.

A new daily morning flight on a 763 will operate next summer.

That's a crazy amount of capacity being added. I never figured summer travel to LAS would warrant such a large amount of seats.

So a daily 319 and a daily 763 on the YVR-LAS route.

This 763 will rotate through with the Hawaii flights next summer.

The 319 connects well to Asia bank. The 763 uses up surplus aircraft downtime.

I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that AC is actively trying to defend Yvr tooth and nail against WS. AC might even be trying to make YVR into a proper hub, dare I say even a mini global hub.

Cage
Dec 7, 2015, 2:45 AM
Great news, but I wonder if the low-value loonie might somewhat put the brakes on this route

Las Vegas does a crazy amount of conventions during the summertime. Plus the hotels/casinos are adjusting well to the low CAD. Contrast LAS with Disneyland, the mouse is doing another annual price increase that will hit Canadians especially hard. Hotels in the area are also increasing rates.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 7, 2015, 3:19 AM
The 319 connects well to Asia bank. The 763 uses up surplus aircraft downtime.

I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that AC is actively trying to defend Yvr tooth and nail against WS. AC might even be trying to make YVR into a proper hub, dare I say even a mini global hub.

I was going to say AC has been giving a lot of love to YVR lately. And I know they are still not done with YVR yet.

nname
Dec 7, 2015, 3:41 AM
Not sure if this has posted before, but China Eastern is planning to maintain 2x daily YVR-PVG year-round starting next summer. Eventually all flights, excluding the 3x weekly continuing to KMG, will be operated by 77W.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 7, 2015, 4:43 AM
Not sure if this has posted before, but China Eastern is planning to maintain 2x daily YVR-PVG year-round starting next summer. Eventually all flights, excluding the 3x weekly continuing to KMG, will be operated by 77W.

Nope. Hadn't seen or heard that. That will be yet another large boost in seats to China.

MU did try double daily in the winter a few years ago, but it didn't last as I think it was too much too soon. However, the market might be ready for that again. YVR-China increases just don't seem to be stopping at all... It's just one after the other.

trofirhen
Dec 7, 2015, 6:44 AM
............................
I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that AC is actively trying to defend Yvr tooth and nail against WS. AC might even be trying to make YVR into a proper hub, dare I say even a mini global hub.
About time, too!! And a minor miracle, given the historical AC approach to YVR.

casper
Dec 7, 2015, 4:17 PM
About time, too!! And a minor miracle, given the historical AC approach to YVR.

Amazing. WestJet gets a couple of 767 and AC starts to notice.

Lets hope the 767 experiment goes well and they end up ordering in the 787 aircraft.

trofirhen
Dec 8, 2015, 2:06 AM
Amazing. WestJet gets a couple of 767 and AC starts to notice.

Lets hope the 767 experiment goes well and they end up ordering in the 787 aircraft.
How many 787 are westjet ordering? They're giving AC such competition domestically that AC is oblidged to find more overseas routes, and suddely YVR has a real purpose as a hub.
Not only the major Canadian hub for China and East Asia, but the Pacific, and Oceania.
:ancient:The attached is very old (2009) excuse me, but has a forsightful relevancy as to what is developing now. Good for a re-read on the Westjet / Air Canada situation, and perhaps why AC seem to be paying more attention to YVR these days.

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/business/westjets-plan-to-crush-air-canada/

casper
Dec 9, 2015, 3:05 AM
How many 787 are westjet ordering? They're giving AC such competition domestically that AC is oblidged to find more overseas routes, and suddely YVR has a real purpose as a hub.
Not only the major Canadian hub for China and East Asia, but the Pacific, and Oceania.
:ancient:The attached is very old (2009) excuse me, but has a forsightful relevancy as to what is developing now. Good for a re-read on the Westjet / Air Canada situation, and perhaps why AC seem to be paying more attention to YVR these days.

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/business/westjets-plan-to-crush-air-canada/

No idea if this is driven by WestJet or just AC sees an opportunity and is taking advantage of it. All these Chinese airlines obviously see an opportunity across the pacific.

That said, competition is good. It WestJet encroaches on Air Canada traditional business that is good for us as consumers.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 9, 2015, 9:18 AM
First flight AM696 STA is 22:15 and then returns to MEX as AM697 at 23:15.

Bienvenidos Aeromexico!

deasine
Dec 9, 2015, 6:05 PM
So just to clarify, Hainan and Tinajin Airlines will operate TSN-YVR. I know they are the same company, but clearly the one carrier per route policy is not as clear cut as it is (although then again it wasn't clear cut given exceptions are made for Air China in PVG).

Johnny Aussie
Dec 9, 2015, 9:16 PM
So just to clarify, Hainan and Tinajin Airlines will operate TSN-YVR. I know they are the same company, but clearly the one carrier per route policy is not as clear cut as it is (although then again it wasn't clear cut given exceptions are made for Air China in PVG).

Depending on the outcome of their CAAC applications... who knows if it will be one, neither or both... just have to wait and see.

I have a hunch that Hainan first applied, but then perhaps withdrew the application only to have Tianjin then apply. You are correct that the one airline one route rule is not 100% clear or set in stone. Seems like Air China the king of CAAC has more power to block than the rest. That's just my perception from what I have seen, heard, read etc....

Johnny Aussie
Dec 12, 2015, 11:08 AM
The first of the seasonal QF 744s is on its way from SYD.

QF75 estimated to arrive early at 1:15pm.

trofirhen
Dec 12, 2015, 7:43 PM
The first of the seasonal QF 744s is on its way from SYD.

QF75 estimated to arrive early at 1:15pm.
Do you think they'll ever go year-round?

Johnny Aussie
Dec 12, 2015, 9:38 PM
^^

Definitely... as soon as they get their 787-9s YVR is tipped to be one of the first routes to be launched year-round. 744 is just too big for the thinner months.

And the roo is back!

QF75 just touched down on 08R.... just listening on ATC live and watching on FR24.

Klazu
Dec 12, 2015, 11:40 PM
QF75 just touched down on 08R.... just listening on ATC live and watching on FR24.

Man, you have way too much time! :D

I noticed Qantas flying a 747 also to SCL (Santiago). I wonder if the plane type is fitting for that market either? It is their only South American connection, so perhaps it serves a purpose, although LAN (also part of One World) does fly (I believe) a 787 to Sydney. Not sure if all those routes are daily.

Those are some long routes over ocean.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 13, 2015, 2:16 AM
Man, you have way too much time! :D

I noticed Qantas flying a 747 also to SCL (Santiago). I wonder if the plane type is fitting for that market either? It is their only South American connection, so perhaps it serves a purpose, although LAN (also part of One World) does fly (I believe) a 787 to Sydney. Not sure if all those routes are daily.

Those are some long routes over ocean.

You know it... Avgeek City here on a lazy Sunday morning it was... Multi tasking :)

LAN is daily but via AKL
Qantas is 4-5 weekly nonstop.

trofirhen
Dec 13, 2015, 4:47 AM
You know it... Avgeek City here on a lazy Sunday morning it was... Multi tasking :)

LAN is daily but via AKL
Qantas is 4-5 weekly nonstop.
Hope Lan flies to YVR one day, even if it's just one route to Lima.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 16, 2015, 1:14 AM
Saw this on Twitter last night... thanks to airlineroute.net.

The CEO of ANA also hinted this during an interview in relation to the R2D2 Star Wars plane.

NH will replace the 787-8 with the 787-9 on the daily YVR-HND flight next summer.

This move also introduces premium economy on this route.

There will be slightly fewer seats per flight, but more premium seating based on the 787-8 configuration they are using now.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 16, 2015, 10:47 AM
http://australianaviation.com.au/2015/12/australia-signs-expanded-air-services-agreement-with-canada/

Current agreement: 3,000 seats each way per week for each country.
Phase I expansion: an additional 3,000 seats each way each (with immediate effect)
Phase II expansion: another 3,000 seats each way each (effective December 2016).

This is a huge expansion from 3,000 seats per week to 9,000 pw for both countries.

And this capacity is still just for SYD, MEL, BNE and PER. The capacity restriction has been lifted from all other Australian points of entry.

With the AC 777-200LR being fitted out to 300 seats and the new YVR-BNE thrice weekly service being on the 787-8 this maxes out the capacity with the current cap at 3,000 seats for Canada. So now with the capacity doubling immediately, perhaps we will see YVR-BNE increased or maybe even see a launch of YVR-MEL. Under the current cap neither of these options would have been possible.

Also wait and see what the Aussie side does. Although I'm pretty sure they would still be waiting for their new 787-9s to come online.

In any event this is pretty exciting for both my homes.

casper
Dec 16, 2015, 3:22 PM
http://australianaviation.com.au/2015/12/australia-signs-expanded-air-services-agreement-with-canada/

Current agreement: 3,000 seats each way per week for each country.
Phase I expansion: an additional 3,000 seats each way each (with immediate effect)
Phase II expansion: another 3,000 seats each way each (effective December 2016).

This is a huge expansion from 3,000 seats per week to 9,000 pw for both countries.

And this capacity is still just for SYD, MEL, BNE and PER. The capacity restriction has been lifted from all other Australian points of entry.

With the AC 777-200LR being fitted out to 300 seats and the new YVR-BNE thrice weekly service being on the 787-8 this maxes out the capacity with the current cap at 3,000 seats for Canada. So now with the capacity doubling immediately, perhaps we will see YVR-BNE increased or maybe even see a launch of YVR-MEL. Under the current cap neither of these options would have been possible.

Also wait and see what the Aussie side does. Although I'm pretty sure they would still be waiting for their new 787-9s to come online.

In any event this is pretty exciting for both my homes.

Nice.

trofirhen
Dec 16, 2015, 4:20 PM
http://australianaviation.com.au/2015/12/australia-signs-expanded-air-services-agreement-with-canada/

Current agreement: 3,000 seats each way per week for each country.
Phase I expansion: an additional 3,000 seats each way each (with immediate effect)
Phase II expansion: another 3,000 seats each way each (effective December 2016).

This is a huge expansion from 3,000 seats per week to 9,000 pw for both countries.

And this capacity is still just for SYD, MEL, BNE and PER. The capacity restriction has been lifted from all other Australian points of entry. .........
...............
Also wait and see what the Aussie side does. Although I'm pretty sure they would still be waiting for their new 787-9s to come online.

In any event this is pretty exciting for both my homes.
I'm thrilled to bits. :tup:

Henbo
Dec 16, 2015, 8:23 PM
http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/canadians-to-benefit-from-expanded-air-transport-agreement-with-china-562627591.html

The expanded agreement increases the number of cities Canadian and Chinese airlines can serve from 12 to 18 in the other partner’s territory.

nname
Dec 17, 2015, 4:46 PM
http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/canadians-to-benefit-from-expanded-air-transport-agreement-with-china-562627591.html

The expanded agreement increases the number of cities Canadian and Chinese airlines can serve from 12 to 18 in the other partner’s territory.

Chinese carriers now serve 3 (will become 4) Canadian cities; Air Canada now serves 2 cities in China.

Any idea what will the 13th-18th cities for each country be? :koko:
Maybe one day we will see direct flight between Beijing and Nanaimo or Abbotsford :D

Cage
Dec 17, 2015, 5:20 PM
Chinese carriers now serve 3 (will become 4) Canadian cities; Air Canada now serves 2 cities in China.

Any idea what will the 13th-18th cities for each country be? :koko:
Maybe one day we will see direct flight between Beijing and Nanaimo or Abbotsford :D

Think of the new cities in terms of code share flights rather than new direct service between cities.



The Canada-China bilateral expansion will allow for greater connections in PEK, YVR, and YYZ through the new AC-CA partnership. YCD-YVR-PEK is now a possibility if YCD becomes one of the 13-18 cities designated.

LeftCoaster
Dec 17, 2015, 10:54 PM
http://australianaviation.com.au/2015/12/australia-signs-expanded-air-services-agreement-with-canada/

Current agreement: 3,000 seats each way per week for each country.
Phase I expansion: an additional 3,000 seats each way each (with immediate effect)
Phase II expansion: another 3,000 seats each way each (effective December 2016).

This is a huge expansion from 3,000 seats per week to 9,000 pw for both countries.

And this capacity is still just for SYD, MEL, BNE and PER. The capacity restriction has been lifted from all other Australian points of entry.

With the AC 777-200LR being fitted out to 300 seats and the new YVR-BNE thrice weekly service being on the 787-8 this maxes out the capacity with the current cap at 3,000 seats for Canada. So now with the capacity doubling immediately, perhaps we will see YVR-BNE increased or maybe even see a launch of YVR-MEL. Under the current cap neither of these options would have been possible.

Also wait and see what the Aussie side does. Although I'm pretty sure they would still be waiting for their new 787-9s to come online.

In any event this is pretty exciting for both my homes.

This is great. I wonder if any of this capacity would go to YYZ or if this is just a big boon to YVR. YYZ can reach BNE, but at 15,000 KM it would be one of the longer flights out there and near the edge of the 77Ls operating range.

Here's a possible configuration of the seats if flights all go through YVR.

AC YVR-SYD - 787-900 - 7 Per week - 2,100
AC YVR-BNE - 787-800 - 7 Per week - 1,757
AC YVR-MEL - 787-800 - 7 Per week - 1,757

QF YVR-SYD - 787-900 - 7 Per week - 2,100
QF YVR-BNE - 787-800 - 5 Per week - 1,250

Total of 8,950 seats per week. No clue how the market would be able to support this many seats, but it's an idea of what kind of capacity this could mean. I assumed QF would have the same seats/plane as AC currently uses, since there is no info on how they will fit out their dreamliners when they arrive.

LeftCoaster
Dec 17, 2015, 11:04 PM
Nevermind, just re-read your post, that's a total of 9,000 seats per week EACH!

That's 18,000 seats per week total. Wow.

I'm not even going to bother looking at possible ways to fill that. If both AC and QF ran daily flights from all 4 airports using a 787-900 (2 flights per day to YVR from SYD, MEL, BNE and PER) that wouldn't even fill the capacity.

Might as well just remove the capacity restrictions altogether. Makes me thing YYZ might be in play after all, which isn't great news for YVR.

SFUVancouver
Dec 17, 2015, 11:11 PM
http://australianaviation.com.au/2015/12/australia-signs-expanded-air-services-agreement-with-canada/

Current agreement: 3,000 seats each way per week for each country.
Phase I expansion: an additional 3,000 seats each way each (with immediate effect)
Phase II expansion: another 3,000 seats each way each (effective December 2016).

This is a huge expansion from 3,000 seats per week to 9,000 pw for both countries.

And this capacity is still just for SYD, MEL, BNE and PER. The capacity restriction has been lifted from all other Australian points of entry.

With the AC 777-200LR being fitted out to 300 seats and the new YVR-BNE thrice weekly service being on the 787-8 this maxes out the capacity with the current cap at 3,000 seats for Canada. So now with the capacity doubling immediately, perhaps we will see YVR-BNE increased or maybe even see a launch of YVR-MEL. Under the current cap neither of these options would have been possible.

Also wait and see what the Aussie side does. Although I'm pretty sure they would still be waiting for their new 787-9s to come online.

In any event this is pretty exciting for both my homes.

This is excellent news! Thank you for sharing. I'm very excited to see improved connectivity between the two countries, particularly with the Canadian dollar making travel to the USD and Euro zones increasingly cost prohibitive.

trofirhen
Dec 17, 2015, 11:22 PM
Nevermind, just re-read your post, that's a total of 9,000 seats per week EACH!

That's 18,000 seats per week total. Wow.

I'm not even going to bother looking at possible ways to fill that. If both AC and QF ran daily flights from all 4 airports using a 787-900 (2 flights per day to YVR from SYD, MEL, BNE and PER) that wouldn't even fill the capacity.

Might as well just remove the capacity restrictions altogether. Makes me thing YYZ might be in play after all, which isn't great news for YVR.
Do the the 789s have the range to do YYZ - Australia?

Gordon
Dec 17, 2015, 11:35 PM
Sydney & Melbourne are too far for any Non Stop flights between 9663 NM & 10,097 NM

MalcolmTucker
Dec 17, 2015, 11:44 PM
777 has the legs..
This mapper:
http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gcmap?PATH=syd-yyz,mel-yyz,bne-yyz,per-yyz&PATH-COLOR=red&ETOPS=180 (shading is ETOPS 180)
Source: Great circle mapper (http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=syd-yyz%2C+mel-yyz%2C+bne-yyz%2C+per-yyz%0D%0A&MS=wls&PC=red&RC=navy&DU=nm&SG=490&SU=kts&E=180)
Distance Time

SYD 8397 nm 17:08
MEL 8774 nm 17:54
BNE 8101 nm 16:32
PER 9788 nm 19:59

LeftCoaster
Dec 18, 2015, 12:18 AM
Anyone know what the 77L's range actually is? Wikipedia says 15,800KM but Air Canada's page says 17,446KM. That's not a small discrepancy.

Do the the 789s have the range to do YYZ - Australia?

No, it would have to be the 77L. 789 tops out at about 14,000KM.

SFUVancouver
Dec 18, 2015, 12:22 AM
Anyone know what the 77L's range actually is? Wikipedia says 15,800KM but Air Canada's page says 17,446KM. That's not a small discrepancy.

Haha. I also went looking for the range of the 77L and 773ER and such following MalcolmTucker's post. The discrepancy is not terribly surprising considering the different airlines' in-flight product for seat weight and configuration, IFE, etc., plus whether there are any physical alterations to the aircraft, such as a "hot & high" up-rated engine thrust package or increased MTOW ancillary fuel tanks. I would also expect that an airline views the precise legs of their fleet to be quasi-proprietary information.

casper
Dec 18, 2015, 2:40 AM
Haha. I also went looking for the range of the 77L and 773ER and such following MalcolmTucker's post. The discrepancy is not terribly surprising considering the different airlines' in-flight product for seat weight and configuration, IFE, etc., plus whether there are any physical alterations to the aircraft, such as a "hot & high" up-rated engine thrust package or increased MTOW ancillary fuel tanks. I would also expect that an airline views the precise legs of their fleet to be quasi-proprietary information.

Several Years ago AC wanted to do YYZ-LAX-SYD. The story around town was that the Australians would not permit the LAX stop-over.

At the time the only stop overs permitted were in San Francisco or Hawaii. That was then, today there are lots of competition between California and Australia. I don't think there is a market to protect there anymore.

Years ago, AC use to run a 767 to Australia with a stop in Hawaii. WestJet could try the same move today.

trofirhen
Dec 18, 2015, 3:38 AM
777 has the legs..
This mapper:
http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gcmap?PATH=syd-yyz,mel-yyz,bne-yyz,per-yyz&PATH-COLOR=red&ETOPS=180 (shading is ETOPS 180)
Source: Great circle mapper (http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=syd-yyz%2C+mel-yyz%2C+bne-yyz%2C+per-yyz%0D%0A&MS=wls&PC=red&RC=navy&DU=nm&SG=490&SU=kts&E=180)
Distance Time

SYD 8397 nm 17:08
MEL 8774 nm 17:54
BNE 8101 nm 16:32
PER 9788 nm 19:59
If AC invested in a fleet of 77Ls for YYZ-AUS/+4, how much would that diminish YVR numbers pax/flights, or is this not a potential threat to YVR? Right now YVR is Canada's only gateway to all of the Pacific. This would change all that, would it not, even if the YYZ routes are all 77L metal. If YVR traffic goes down, by how much, if anyone can inform me.
The Wikipedia and Air Canada 77L range stats would play enormously here, would they not? Thank you.

Cage
Dec 18, 2015, 3:46 AM
YYZ-Australia is not commercially viable as a nonstop service. There are too many one stop options to make it work from an economic perspective. Keep in mind the cost of transporting fuel on ULH runs make them less competitive than doing to Longhaul runs.

Any Canada-Australia service will have a western North America departure port.

Under the Yyz-LAX-SYD option, UA would have withdrawn their service and code share joint venture with AC. at the time UA was flying 744s on the run that cannot compete cost and profit wise with the 77W. I also believe the lax stop used the USA traffic rights and this was a method to get around existing bilateral. Now UA has their own 77W on order for delivery in 2016.

Cage
Dec 18, 2015, 4:09 AM
Here's a possible configuration of the seats if flights all go through YVR.

AC YVR-SYD - 787-900 - 7 Per week - 2,100
AC YVR-BNE - 787-800 - 7 Per week - 1,757
AC YVR-MEL - 787-800 - 7 Per week - 1,757

QF YVR-SYD - 787-900 - 7 Per week - 2,100
QF YVR-BNE - 787-800 - 5 Per week - 1,250
.

A little bit of inside baseball perspective, daily Canada-Australia is a 2 airplane commitment.

On the AC side, this would require AC to commit half their 788 fleet to Australia. More realistic is BNe at 3x per week with the 788 and MEL at 4x per week with the 789.

On the QF side, they only have 8 789 s on order, no 788. Further the QF 789 replace 5 744s. The option above would not allow for any additional growth beyond Canada.

Economically speaking, AC dreamliners have 30% capital cost advantage over equivalent QF airplanes. Operating costs will be the same. AC dreamliners have high density seating arrangement for mainline equipment. For these reasons, QF is going to have stiff competition from AC on the Canada to Australia market.

trofirhen
Dec 18, 2015, 4:20 AM
YYZ-Australia is not commercially viable as a nonstop service. There are too many one stop options to make it work from an economic perspective. Keep in mind the cost of transporting fuel on ULH runs make them less competitive than doing to Longhaul runs.

Any Canada-Australia service will have a western North America departure port.

Under the Yyz-LAX-SYD option, UA would have withdrawn their service and code share joint venture with AC. at the time UA was flying 744s on the run that cannot compete cost and profit wise with the 77W. I also believe the lax stop used the USA traffic rights and this was a method to get around existing bilateral. Now UA has their own 77W on order for delivery in 2016.
Interesting info. Thanks, Cage.
Well anyway, at least for Canada, and maybe the US PNW, YVR is still King of all the Pacific, for the while, anyway.
(However, though, YYZ is only 13228 km from Manila, and YVR's current PR monopoly could be due to the less $$ fuel efficient A340. (*please correct me if I'm wrong)
Could a PR change of metal could change the dynamic around that quite feasibly ... and a potential reduction in frequency YVR - MNL.) Or not?
I'm not trying to play the pessimist here, I just wonder if what I perceive, coming, coming. Toronto has a larger Philippine community than Vancouver, already!.

Cage
Dec 18, 2015, 4:20 AM
Nevermind, just re-read your post, that's a total of 9,000 seats per week EACH!

That's 18,000 seats per week total. Wow.

I'm not even going to bother looking at possible ways to fill that. If both AC and QF ran daily flights from all 4 airports using a 787-900 (2 flights per day to YVR from SYD, MEL, BNE and PER) that wouldn't even fill the capacity.

Might as well just remove the capacity restrictions altogether. Makes me thing YYZ might be in play after all, which isn't great news for YVR.

IIRC, capacity adjustments are technical Ammendment whereas removal of capacity restrictions requires a completely new agreement. It is likely that one or both countries have objections to some bilateral requirements that prevent a completely new agreement from being negotiated. For example the Australians are much more accepting of foreign airlines using their traffic allotment than most other countries would allow.

trofirhen
Dec 18, 2015, 9:43 PM
Is there a big enough market to warrant YVR - PERTH? If so, Vancouver would be the Sovereign airport of the Pacific Rim, especially adding SIN, BKK, and KUL? Even OKD (Sapporo).
(I'd love to see a YVR - PPT seasonal, too) Air France? Air Tahiti Nui? Given such a prospective scenario, YVR would indeed be a global mini-hub, one for all the Pacific.
And I'd rather like that !!! :rolleyes:

casper
Dec 19, 2015, 1:41 AM
Is there a big enough market to warrant YVR - PERTH? If so, Vancouver would be the Sovereign airport of the Pacific Rim, especially adding SIN, BKK, and KUL? Even OKD (Sapporo).
(I'd love to see a YVR - PPT seasonal, too) Air France? Air Tahiti Nui? Given such a prospective scenario, YVR would indeed be a global mini-hub, one for all the Pacific.
And I'd rather like that !!! :rolleyes:

I don't know about Perth. It is in the opposite end of Australia. That is a long way to go. I don't even think they have a flight to LAX.

Once or twice a week I could see a YVR-Hawaii-Caines flight. That is a major tourist destination. Maybe a Rogue flight.

The PPT flight is a weird destination. There is probably some government between PPT and Paris. Lots of tourist.

thebus
Dec 21, 2015, 12:48 AM
http://www.ausbt.com.au/air-canada-daily-brisbane-vancouver-boeing-787-flight-from-june-2016

AC has moved YVR-BNE to daily. Didn't take long to act on the increase in bilateral capacity.

Hourglass
Dec 21, 2015, 1:52 AM
http://www.ausbt.com.au/air-canada-daily-brisbane-vancouver-boeing-787-flight-from-june-2016

AC has moved YVR-BNE to daily. Didn't take long to act on the increase in bilateral capacity.

I guess the forward bookings must be looking good for AC as well -- even with the change in the bilateral, I doubt they would go daily otherwise.

Wonder whether this increase in capacity will impact QF's plans to eventually serve YVR

trofirhen
Dec 21, 2015, 2:09 AM
I guess the forward bookings must be looking good for AC as well -- even with the change in the bilateral, I doubt they would go daily otherwise.

Wonder whether this increase in capacity will impact QF's plans to eventually serve YVR
I hope the eventual impact will be positive, and not negative. Surely QF will want a bigger slice of the YVR - AUS market.

deasine
Dec 21, 2015, 8:36 PM
I don't think it should impact QF too much. It probably isn't QFs best interest to serve from too many Australian destinations as it relies on domestic feed from SYD. Whereas AC relies on feed from Canada/US to some small degree going to Australia (there's not that many passengers on a % that connect domestic). If anything this will impact NZ...

SFUVancouver
Dec 21, 2015, 8:48 PM
I don't think it should impact QF too much. It probably isn't QFs best interest to serve from too many Australian destinations as it relies on domestic feed from SYD. Whereas AC relies on feed from Canada/US to some small degree going to Australia (there's not that many passengers on a % that connect domestic). If anything this will impact NZ...

Now that is an interesting thought. I know that we were thinking of looking into an Air New Zealand option for future travel to Australia, however with additional direct YVR-AUS routes, the appeal of a further detour into New Zealand loses its appeal, even if the price-point comes in slightly below the AC and QF options.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 22, 2015, 3:32 AM
http://www.ausbt.com.au/air-canada-daily-brisbane-vancouver-boeing-787-flight-from-june-2016

AC has moved YVR-BNE to daily. Didn't take long to act on the increase in bilateral capacity.

That's excellent... They must have anticipated the increase in capacity and obviously already had this in their fleet plan.

Next summer AC at YVR will now have nine daily mainline overseas flights up from seven last summer. Plus additional capacity on SYD and PVG.

This will not deter QF in the slightest. They can leverage off their One World strength down under. QF will still be a big draw for Aussie originating pax. Offering a year-round service will be more appealing and if it's daily, even better.

As for NZ, don't see NZ as a detour... NZ is a fantastic and amazing place to visit. I would actually encourage a trip down under via NZ anyway. That's what I am encouraging my parents to do on their upcoming trip to Australia. And Air NZ service is excellent.

Klazu
Dec 22, 2015, 6:57 AM
New Zealand is nice, but it's still a detour vs. direct flight. Does anyone have an idea what percentage of Air New Zealand's YVR passengers continue towards Australia?

trofirhen
Dec 22, 2015, 12:33 PM
I wonder if we'll ever get Fiji back, as well as Tahiti? (seasonal, of course).

Klazu
Dec 22, 2015, 1:20 PM
I would love that as I would love visiting both. Now you have to take a detour to get there.

west1266
Dec 22, 2015, 3:55 PM
I have used NZ via Auckland many times in fact it is my airline of choice flying down-under. They offer better value when flying PE or bus than AC. I will be heading to Sydney in March and will take NZ again. New Zealand is a beautiful country well worth visiting.:)

hoboman27
Dec 22, 2015, 6:13 PM
YVR hits 20M Passengers and mentions new incentive program, "ConnectYVR"

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/hits+record+million+passengers/11606863/story.html

Anyone got more info on their ConnectYVR program? Sounds interesting.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 22, 2015, 9:46 PM
I just arrived into YVR from PEK this morning and I thought I was the 20 millionth passenger..... Darn it!

Air China's 77W was really nice and I like their new inflight mapper system.

Hot Rod
Dec 23, 2015, 10:30 PM
pics?

SFUVancouver
Dec 23, 2015, 11:18 PM
I just arrived into YVR from PEK this morning and I thought I was the 20 millionth passenger..... Darn it!

Air China's 77W was really nice and I like their new inflight mapper system.

Welcome home!

Johnny Aussie
Dec 24, 2015, 3:34 AM
^^ thanks!

So nice to be back in cooler temps and fresh air after the disgusting air pollution in Bejing and the 40+ temps down under we've been having.

Went from 42C to about 42F.

Because our flight was about an hour early we missed the rush hour... No wait in primary inspection just walked up to the first counter... What a treat. Baggage was delivered in decent time too as well considering we were at the last gate on D Concourse - D64.

I did take some pics so I'll see if I can upload some to imagur.

The CA 77W was such an improvement over the CA 332 we had on the MEL-PEK sector two days before.

Speaking of PEK, they are going to hit just shy of 90 million pax this year, while ATL will hit 100 million pax probably this Sunday.

Edit: forgot to mention on arrival all the mainland Chinese Airlines that currently serve YVR were on the ground and right next to each other... Sichuan, China Eastern, China Southern and the first Air China of the day was still on the ground. So 5 mainland Chinese planes at once (including my Air China 77W). By this time next year there may be 8 flying to YVR.....

nname
Dec 24, 2015, 11:05 AM
Philippine Airlines Moves New York Schedule in S16

Philippine Airlines starting 28MAR16 is adjusting operational schedule for Manila – Vancouver – New York JFK route, currently served 4 times a week with Boeing 777-300ER aircraft.

At the start of summer 2016 schedule, the airline will unify Manila – Vancouver eastbound schedule, while Vancouver – New York JFK schedule shifts to night-time arrival and midnight departure for New York. Planned schedule as follow.

PR126 MNL1500 – 1220YVR1420 – 2230JFK 77W x357
PR127 JFK0015 – 0330YVR0515 – 0945+1MNL 77W x146

http://airlineroute.net/2015/12/24/pr-jfk-s16/


Such a horrible westbound departure and arrival time... :yuck:

Do they even have the check-in area, inspection, and custom open at 3-4am? Right now there is no international flight arrive or depart anywhere near that time at all!

trofirhen
Dec 24, 2015, 10:41 PM
Looking at the Wikipedia entry on San Francisco airport destinations, I noticed that they have both Chonqquing and Wuhan. I don't think YVR has this, correct me if I'm wrong.
These are both second-tier Chinese cities, Wuhan, at 10,220,000 with Chonqquing slightly larger at with a city population of 17,000,000 and a regional population of 29,000,000.
Chonqquing's reseached annual GDP is close to Minneapolis, at US$ 232.2 bn (correct me if my math is wrong)
Wuhan is also obviously a city of importance, although smaller than it's big neighbor.

Would Chonqqing/ Wuahn / be destinations with yield factor for VYR, as well?

Hot Rod
Dec 25, 2015, 8:37 AM
A bit about Chongqing, while it may be a Tier 2 city from the eyes of the west; it is certainly poised to become a Tier 1 city very shortly as it fast approaches the wealth and significance of the other 3 direct municipalities and 4 national central cities. Chongqing is the only such city in the interior of china (Beijing, Shanghai, Tianjin - municipalities, add Guangzhou for central cities). By definition, if you are on this list then you are Tier 1 - yet I would agree that Chongqing probably isn't quite fully there yet but will be within 5 years; especially once it's new T3A terminal opens next year among other things.

Wuhan is definitely a Tier 2 city, a provincial capital; Chongqing is not. It was already mentioned the economy of Chongqing by comparison to a US metro and that is growing exponentially as is the urban population (1 million sq feet added DAILY). Take a look at recent photos of Chongqing and tell me with a straight face that you just saw a Tier 2 city. ....

Vancouver will be 'complete' as a China-NA hub once all of the national central cities are covered (Tianjin and Chongqing aren't yet covered - but it appears Hainan/Tianjin Airline may take care of this). Everybody after that would be 2nd tier, but many do offer 1st tier business and/or tourist opportunities (here's to you Nanjing, Shenzhen, Chengdu (already got flight), Fuzhou, Huangzhou, other prov caps.

OK, back to the discussions.

Johnny Aussie
Dec 27, 2015, 6:29 PM
Part One

YVR-LAX has a casualty!

Effective 4 June 2016 Alaska is pulling the plug! So that's it for Alaska mainline at YVR folks. Au revoir Alaska.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/12/27/as-yvrlax-jun16/

So YVR-LAX will now be served by AC, DL, AA, UA and WS. Summer scheds showing 12 daily on the route still.

Part Two

Now for one that came out of left field!

AC is putting the 787-8 on the daily YVR-EWR flight effective June 17 replacing the daily A319.... What a gigantic capacity increase.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/12/27/ac-yvrewr-jun16/

whatnext
Dec 27, 2015, 7:04 PM
Part One

YVR-LAX has a casualty!

Effective 4 June 2016 Alaska is pulling the plug! So that's it for Alaska mainline at YVR folks. Au revoir Alaska.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/12/27/as-yvrlax-jun16/

So YVR-LAX will now be served by AC, DL, AA, UA and WS. Summer scheds showing 12 daily on the route still.

Part Two

Now for one that came out of left field!

AC is putting the 787-8 on the daily YVR-EWR flight effective June 17 replacing the daily A319.... What a gigantic capacity increase.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/12/27/ac-yvrewr-jun16/

Interesting, though I remember my first YVR-JFK on AC was a 767 so they're just getting back to that kind of capacity 15 years later!

Johnny Aussie
Dec 27, 2015, 8:29 PM
Oh and DL is bumping SEA up to 6 daily next summer.

Delta will have 13 daily flights up to 15 on Saturdays next summer.

SEA 6
MSP 2
LAX 2
SLC 2
JFK 1
ATL 2 weekly (Wed, Sat)
DTW 1 weekly (Sat)

Goodbye AS and Hello Delta

trofirhen
Dec 28, 2015, 2:32 AM
.............

Part Two

Now for one that came out of left field!

AC is putting the 787-8 on the daily YVR-EWR flight effective June 17 replacing the daily A319.... What a gigantic capacity increase.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/12/27/ac-yvrewr-jun16/
... and to top it all off, this is Air Canada's second transborder route with a 787 dreamliner (the first being out of YYZ of course,) but in this event, who cares?:cheers:

Klazu
Dec 28, 2015, 7:34 AM
DTW 1 weekly (Sat)

So we do have Detroit, but it's just once a week. Why does Delta bother with these once or twice a week flights? What's the business case for such infrequent connection?

Hourglass
Dec 28, 2015, 8:31 AM
So we do have Detroit, but it's just once a week. Why does Delta bother with these once or twice a week flights? What's the business case for such infrequent connection?

It's for cruise passengers -- 2-3 cruise ships arriving / departing on the same day will provide more than enough demand for that 1x/weekly flight. I recall AC used to do something similar in the summer for YVR-Anchorage.

Klazu
Dec 28, 2015, 10:04 AM
Ah, good point and likely the reason for such odd days. Good to have those connections, but with such frequencies they are unlikely to pop up in search engines very often. :rolleyes:

Johnny Aussie
Jan 2, 2016, 8:17 PM
http://yvr.ca/Libraries/Aviation_Marketing/November_2015_Traffic_Update.sflb.ashx

Yet another month of decent growth.

Excellent growth Transborder, Asia Pacific and Europe.

Growth compared to NOV 2014 and YTD through NOV 2014

Overall up 76,905 5.7% YTD up 869,794 4.9%
-----
Domestic up 25,821 3.5% YTD up 227,443 2.5%
-----
Transborder up 22,792 7.0%
Asia/Pacific up 21,914 11.9%
Europe up 7,755 13.8%
Misc Int'l down 1,287 -2.8%
-----
Ttl Int'l up 51,084 8.3% YTD up 642,351 7.5%

If similar growth in December as occurred in November, YVR should hit above 20,300,000 for 2015.

Hot Rod
Jan 2, 2016, 10:16 PM
heres to 20.5 million for 2015!!

Hip-hip, 'Hooray'! Hip-hip, 'Hooray'!

trofirhen
Jan 3, 2016, 3:24 AM
In the stats, domestic growth of 2.5% seems normal, and (if I interpret correctly) the Transborder growth is good, Asia Pacific on its inexorable increase, and a peak for Europe at nearly 14%

Johnny Aussie
Jan 3, 2016, 4:45 PM
A weekly update is posted by a guy on airliners.net which shows the changes in schedules in the US by week.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6589612/

YVR is the only Canadian city to actually show increases on UA routes. Every other single Canadian UA route shown has a cut.

It has to be analysed carefully though because the adjustments just reflect a change in schedule from week to week. So not necessarily a change in prior year. However, a lot of the Canadian routes being reduced are in fact true losses now as upcoming schedules are definitely showing cuts compared to the prior year.

SFUVancouver
Jan 5, 2016, 7:08 PM
http://yvr.ca/Libraries/Aviation_Marketing/November_2015_Traffic_Update.sflb.ashx

Interesting to see that tonnes on runway is up 5.7% while year over year pax is up 4.9%, meaning that there has been up-gauging of metal year over year.

Part One

YVR-LAX has a casualty!!

Effective 4 June 2016 Alaska is pulling the plug! So that's it for Alaska mainline at YVR folks. Au revoir Alaska.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/12/27/as-yvrlax-jun16/

So YVR-LAX will now be served by AC, DL, AA, UA and WS. Summer scheds showing 12 daily on the route still.

Part Two

Now for one that came out of left field!

AC is putting the 787-8 on the daily YVR-EWR flight effective June 17 replacing the daily A319.... What a gigantic capacity increase.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/12/27/ac-yvrewr-jun16/

Very interesting!

I'm planning a trip today that would take me from YVR through EWR and there are subsequent trips, including one after the June 16 introduction of 788 service, that could let me take my first Dreamliner!

LeftCoaster
Jan 6, 2016, 10:12 PM
So I was looking at the 2015 numbers today and lamenting a bit the sub 5% growth when I came to a realization. A painfully obvious realization.

2015 growth figures are nearly identical to 2014 growth figures, but with one exception: domestic.

2014 Transborder 9.51%
2015 Transborder 8.52%

2014 International 7.83%
2015 International 6.54%

2014 Int'l & Transborder 8.68%
2015 Int'l & Transborder 8.01%

So we're really only off last year's spectacular growth by 0.6% if you factor out domestic, which is really of little concern to me at least and easily explainable by the current national economic picture.

Here's to an even better 2016. With the rosy economic forecast for the US and Vancouver, coupled with all the capacity increases we've been seeing I'm expecting Int'l numbers closer to 2014.

LeftCoaster
Jan 6, 2016, 10:23 PM
Interesting to see that tonnes on runway is up 5.7% while year over year pax is up 4.9%, meaning that there has been up-gauging of metal year over year.



Very interesting!

Also total aircraft movements is down 0.6% with total tonnage on the runway up 5.7%. Much bigger birds coming to YVR.


I'm planning a trip today that would take me from YVR through EWR and there are subsequent trips, including one after the June 16 introduction of 788 service, that could let me take my first Dreamliner!

Given the amount of flying you seem to do I'm shocked you've haven't been on a dreamliner yet. They even fly daily between YYZ and YVR!

Hot Rod
Jan 13, 2016, 6:56 AM
omg, 7 days and no YVR Airport news. ....

I can't take it.

casper
Jan 13, 2016, 10:57 PM
omg, 7 days and no YVR Airport news. ....

I can't take it.

Ok....

- A United Airlines flight from Anchorage to Denver diverted to YVR and police stormed the aircraft. No news reports yet on what the problem individual was actually doing to cause the diversion. I find it odd, I would have expected Calgary or Edmonton to be closer to the that route, but who knows.

Klazu
Jan 13, 2016, 11:39 PM
I find it odd, I would have expected Calgary or Edmonton to be closer to the that route, but who knows.

Well, there was also that Air Canada 777 from Shanghai to Toronto that his severe turbulence over Christmas and had to make an emergency landing in Calgary, not Edmonton. I did find that strange as Calgary can't by any means be closer to the flight route than Edmonton is. :shrug: