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Klazu
Sep 1, 2016, 1:38 PM
AND the additional flights will be on A350s.... So we have YVR's first scheduled A350 flights confirmed.

Well there we have it! All new ang big planes fly now to Vancouver!! A380, A350, 787-9, 747-8... Sweet! :)

connect2source
Sep 1, 2016, 1:46 PM
Cathay Pacific plans to operate A350-XWB to Vancouver staring next spring according to Routes Online, frequency increase to from 14 - 17 weekly.

Heard nothing but amazing reviews of the A350, wider seats and more comfortable than the 787 due to wider cabin.

edit : Just beat me Johnny and Klazu, here's the link :


http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/268658/cathay-pacific-s17-operation-changes-as-of-01sep16/

excel
Sep 1, 2016, 5:31 PM
:cheers:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/736/23293076030_2e96ca8326_b.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/736/23293076030_2e96ca8326_b.jpg

https://cdn-business.discourse.org/uploads/infinite_flight/original/3X/9/c/9cfa89aac608d77bd07b76f3875f160e310e1595.jpg
https://cdn-business.discourse.org/uploads/infinite_flight/original/3X/9/c/9cfa89aac608d77bd07b76f3875f160e310e1595.jpg

aberdeen5698
Sep 1, 2016, 5:37 PM
:cheers:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/736/23293076030_2e96ca8326_b.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/736/23293076030_2e96ca8326_b.jpg
Without the engines that plane should be flat back on its tail unless they've loaded an awful lot of ballast inside the cabin...

SFUVancouver
Sep 1, 2016, 7:18 PM
Speaking of Cathay.

Just saw on Twitter from airlineroute.net

Effective 24 March 2017 CX will increase YVR from 14 to 17 weekly.

AND the additional flights will be on A350s.... So we have YVR's first scheduled A350 flights confirmed.

New flights:
CX856 HKG 1100 - 0755 YVR 359 246
CX855 YVR 0925 - 1345+1 HKG 359 246

The good news just keeps on rolling.

YVR A350 confirmed! With Cathay flying A350-900s, I expect that as their -1000s join the fleet they will up-gauge YVR flights with the highest load factors.

That's great overall news, too, of Cathay increasing its commitment to YVR to greater than twice daily.

EWR: is being upgauged to daily 789s
LAX: 4th daily being added and 2 upgauging to 321s


What a difference a year makes for the AC YVR-EWR route. From an A319 to a B789. Wow.

Good to see more service on YVR-LAX, too, and some up-gauging to A321s.

Denscity
Sep 1, 2016, 7:49 PM
YVR is calling this A350 the first one in Canada! :tup:

connect2source
Sep 1, 2016, 7:57 PM
A350 : Magnificent and super-comfortable plane, design for 9 abreast and in-service with 9 abreast, unlike the 787, designed for 8 abreast but most airlines squeezed another seat in so all airlines except some ANA planes are 9 abreast, making the Dreamliner moniker redundant for those travelling in economy.

The A350 EIS was also rather seamless and trouble free compared to the 787. Nothing but praise for this beauty!! Can't wait to fly her!

LeftCoaster
Sep 1, 2016, 9:00 PM
EWR: is being upgauged to daily 789s
LAX: 4th daily being added and 2 upgauging to 321s
SEA and PDX: all flights upgauged to DH4s

Last winter of course LAX and SFO were all rouge routes. This winter SFO will be 3 daily mainline 319s and LAX 2 daily 321, 1 daily 320 and 1 daily 319 all mainline.

LAS, HNL, OGG and KOA are exactly the same as last winter.

And as previously mentioned:
SAN: new daily CRA
SJC: new 2 daily CRA
ORD: new daily E90
PHX: 4 weekly 763
PSP: 3 weekly 763

These changes get overlooked in favour of the flashy intl' announcements but cumulatively these are very big changes. AC putting a lot of metal into YVR lately.

Only thing I wish they would focus on now (I'm not trying to sound like an ingrate, I really do appreciate the growth AC is showing YVR) is to add some more secondary US airports. YVR flies to most western hubs now and with good frequency, but in order to truly be Canada's western hub and hub to Asia it needs to pull from some US markets where the O&D may not be too strong.

Adding flights to LAX is great, but we lose as many connections out of LAX as we gain, but adding a service to somewhere like Austin is purely pulling out of Austin to fill transcontinental planes. Focusing on US cities that don't have good connections to Asia should be a key strategy for AC to ensure it's Vancouver asia hub can compete with the likes of SFO and LAX who have a natural advantage in US domestic pull.

Hoping the C series allows AC to tap some more markets like this.

LeftCoaster
Sep 1, 2016, 9:14 PM
YVR A350 confirmed! With Cathay flying A350-900s, I expect that as their -1000s join the fleet they will up-gauge YVR flights with the highest load factors.

That's great overall news, too, of Cathay increasing its commitment to YVR to greater than twice daily.


Represents a 20% increase in seats per week, not bad at all! Hopefully this continues and we see a YVRs first true triple daily... well since Cathay did it back in the day. Would be nice to see 2xA359 and 1xB77W daily since the 777 has first class and the 350 doesn't.

Also confirmed today is what Johnny already told us, that China Southern will be keeping the 777 on YVR all winter.

China Southern in last week’s schedule update once again revised planned operational aircraft for Guangzhou – Vancouver service. From 30OCT16, the Skyteam member will continue to operate Boeing 777-300ER aircraft on this route, on daily basis. The airline previously planned to switch to Boeing 787-8 for winter season.

CZ329 CAN1400 – 0940YVR 77W D
CZ330 YVR1130 – 1720+1CAN 77W D
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/268640/china-southern-w16-vancouver-service-changes-as-of-01sep16/

That's a 36% increase in capacity over last year all without changing a frequency (to SFUs point).

Looking forward to that one going to 9x PW in March once the Mexico City add on begins.

mezzanine
Sep 1, 2016, 9:41 PM
Only thing I wish they would focus on now (I'm not trying to sound like an ingrate, I really do appreciate the growth AC is showing YVR) is to add some more secondary US airports. YVR flies to most western hubs now and with good frequency, but in order to truly be Canada's western hub and hub to Asia it needs to pull from some US markets where the O&D may not be too strong.

Adding flights to LAX is great, but we lose as many connections out of LAX as we gain, but adding a service to somewhere like Austin is purely pulling out of Austin to fill transcontinental planes. Focusing on US cities that don't have good connections to Asia should be a key strategy for AC to ensure it's Vancouver asia hub can compete with the likes of SFO and LAX who have a natural advantage in US domestic pull.

Hoping the C series allows AC to tap some more markets like this.

Agree. San Diego and entirely new routing to san jose were nice but I think more is feasible. ABQ is an underserved market period with a lot of potential for overseas travel in both directions. I also suspect SLC can sustain a flight to YYZ and YVR and give delta's flight from BLI a run for its money, definitely while the CDN $ is low.

mezzanine
Sep 1, 2016, 9:43 PM
What a difference a year makes for the AC YVR-EWR route. From an A319 to a B789. Wow.

Good to see more service on YVR-LAX, too, and some up-gauging to A321s.

I remember when AC rouge'd YVR routes to SFO and LAX, thankfully corrected. Why did they do that in the first place?

Alpine
Sep 1, 2016, 11:06 PM
These changes get overlooked in favour of the flashy intl' announcements but cumulatively these are very big changes. AC putting a lot of metal into YVR lately.

Only thing I wish they would focus on now (I'm not trying to sound like an ingrate, I really do appreciate the growth AC is showing YVR) is to add some more secondary US airports. YVR flies to most western hubs now and with good frequency, but in order to truly be Canada's western hub and hub to Asia it needs to pull from some US markets where the O&D may not be too strong.

Adding flights to LAX is great, but we lose as many connections out of LAX as we gain, but adding a service to somewhere like Austin is purely pulling out of Austin to fill transcontinental planes. Focusing on US cities that don't have good connections to Asia should be a key strategy for AC to ensure it's Vancouver asia hub can compete with the likes of SFO and LAX who have a natural advantage in US domestic pull.

Hoping the C series allows AC to tap some more markets like this.

That's my first choice. YVR is fairly weak in secondary U.S. airports, which also damages its connections to Latin America. It made sense when Canada had a high petrodollar, but times have changed.

My second choice is for Rouge to get some 789s and start a YVR-DXB or YVR-IST route, to bolster YVR-MENASA. I don't see it happening though since BA84/85 and LH493/492 (as well as AF378/374) already ferry a lot of YVR-MENASA traffic, and YYZ has plenty of MENASA connections. All the same, it would really stick it to Sea-Tac which can only handle Emirates' 10 abreast 77Ws and their narrow seats.

My third choice would be for routes in Asia that haven't been served yet. Japan in and of itself has so many possibilities: Sapporo (CTS), Sendai (SDJ), Fukuoka (FUK), Okinawa/Naha (OKA), Nagoya (NGO), some more flights to Kansai (KIX/ITM). Zhejiang Province in China is booming ridiculously (the G20 is being held in Zhejiang), so flights to Hangzhou/HGH or Wenzhou/WNZ would be great. Then there's southeast Asia: YVR-SIN could be done on a 359/789, and there's also BKK, KUL, CGK, expanding MNL service...since Vietnam and Burma are now opening up to the world, maybe even YVR-RGN or YVR-HAN/YVR-SGN could be in the cards in 3-5 years.

Also, does anyone think that the 2x daily YVR-SJC are to bolster Vancouver's connections to the Valley, so as to improve the city's tech scene?

twoNeurons
Sep 1, 2016, 11:39 PM
That's my first choice. YVR is fairly weak in secondary U.S. airports, which also damages its connections to Latin America. It made sense when Canada had a high petrodollar, but times have changed.

My second choice is for Rouge to get some 789s and start a YVR-DXB or YVR-IST route, to bolster YVR-MENASA. I don't see it happening though since BA84/85 and LH493/492 (as well as AF378/374) already ferry a lot of YVR-MENASA traffic, and YYZ has plenty of MENASA connections. All the same, it would really stick it to Sea-Tac which can only handle Emirates' 10 abreast 77Ws and their narrow seats.

My third choice would be for routes in Asia that haven't been served yet. Japan in and of itself has so many possibilities: Sapporo (CTS), Sendai (SDJ), Fukuoka (FUK), Okinawa/Naha (OKA), Nagoya (NGO), some more flights to Kansai (KIX/ITM). Zhejiang Province in China is booming ridiculously (the G20 is being held in Zhejiang), so flights to Hangzhou/HGH or Wenzhou/WNZ would be great. Then there's southeast Asia: YVR-SIN could be done on a 359/789, and there's also BKK, KUL, CGK, expanding MNL service...since Vietnam and Burma are now opening up to the world, maybe even YVR-RGN or YVR-HAN/YVR-SGN could be in the cards in 3-5 years.

Also, does anyone think that the 2x daily YVR-SJC are to bolster Vancouver's connections to the Valley, so as to improve the city's tech scene?

Man, a direct flight to Okinawa would be awesome!

SFUVancouver
Sep 1, 2016, 11:45 PM
[...]
My second choice is for Rouge to get some 789s and start a YVR-DXB or YVR-IST route, to bolster YVR-MENASA. I don't see it happening though since BA84/85 and LH493/492 (as well as AF378/374) already ferry a lot of YVR-MENASA traffic, and YYZ has plenty of MENASA connections. All the same, it would really stick it to Sea-Tac which can only handle Emirates' 10 abreast 77Ws and their narrow seats.
[...]



Medium to long term (early- to mid-2020s) I could definitely see Air Canada moving their older 788s and 789s to Rouge to replace its by-then-geriatric B767s. By that point the 787-10, 777X-8, and 777X-9 will be on the scene and the A350 family well established with its -800, -900, -1000, and possible -1100 stretch options. Air Canada may be pleased with Dreamliners after a decade of operation as the backbone of its long-haul fleet and re-up with more of the same, plus a smattering of larger 777Xs to replace its current 777 fleet, but it's also possible Air Canada may want to take the plunge with a refreshed A350-based long-haul fleet. Who knows?

Johnny Aussie
Sep 2, 2016, 3:00 AM
Not a big deal for YVR really good or bad.

Did a broad brush stroke and overal looks like:

Slightly more flights to YYZ and generally on larger A/C (more widebodies and 321s and less 320 flying).
Slightly more flights to YUL including two daily widebodies still
One of the two daily to YOW will be on 321s. Last winter all 320 flying.
YWG 4 daily CRA
YXE, YQR, YXY both 2 daily CRA this winter
YLW will maintain 10 daily with one mainline 319 and more DH4 (3 of 10)
YKA down from 7 to 5 daily but more DH4 flying 2 of 5
YXT down from 5 to 4 daily but also DH4 introduced for winter on 2 of the 4
YMM down to 1 daily DH4
YYC down to only 12 daily with 3 of 12 on CRAs.
YEG down to 7 daily until mid Feb ten back to 8.

trofirhen
Sep 2, 2016, 4:07 AM
These changes get overlooked in favour of the flashy intl' announcements but cumulatively these are very big changes. AC putting a lot of metal into YVR lately.

Only thing I wish they would focus on now (I'm not trying to sound like an ingrate, I really do appreciate the growth AC is showing YVR) is to add some more secondary US airports. YVR flies to most western hubs now and with good frequency, but in order to truly be Canada's western hub and hub to Asia it needs to pull from some US markets where the O&D may not be too strong.

Adding flights to LAX is great, but we lose as many connections out of LAX as we gain, but adding a service to somewhere like Austin is purely pulling out of Austin to fill transcontinental planes. Focusing on US cities that don't have good connections to Asia should be a key strategy for AC to ensure it's Vancouver asia hub can compete with the likes of SFO and LAX who have a natural advantage in US domestic pull.

Hoping the C series allows AC to tap some more markets like this.
What are somemarkets in the USA where direct connections to YVR would enhance YVR's Asia-Americas "link" concept?
What about Charlotte? (huge banking centre), Albuquerque, as mentioned, and MCI? Otherwise stated, are there any new US cities YVR could / should be adding,
if it's going to be this Asia-Americas link so often touted?
And if South America is out of the question, that leaves the USA and Mexico.
The Big Question (for me) is "where do we go from here, in terms of service to the USA and Latin America? Don't the US cities have us beat flat out on that? Or not?

nname
Sep 2, 2016, 4:16 AM
China Eastern had applied to move existing Shanghai-Vancouver to Kunming-Nanjing-Vancouver... 3x weekly

So this is the plan?

8x PVG-YVR
3x KMG-PVG-YVR
3x KMG-NKG-YVR

Total 11 weekly from PVG, 6 weekly from KMG, 3x weekly from NKG

Is this one of the new destinations that Johnny hinted before? :D

Johnny Aussie
Sep 2, 2016, 4:41 AM
China Eastern had applied to move existing Shanghai-Vancouver to Kunming-Nanjing-Vancouver... 3x weekly

So this is the plan?

8x PVG-YVR
3x KMG-PVG-YVR
3x KMG-NKG-YVR

Total 11 weekly from PVG, 6 weekly from KMG, 3x weekly from NKG

Is this one of the new destinations that Johnny hinted before? :D

Just saw it on Twitter... They want to start this in October! This is nuts!
Expect to see larger aircraft on PVG-YVR!

Chongqing is what I'm hearing.

OMG ������������ Excuse me I have to check my washing machine I think I hear another spin cycle coming!

mezzanine
Sep 2, 2016, 5:06 AM
Hmm... (http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/cathay-pacific-adds-a350-to-vancouver-preparing-for-hong-kong-airlines-long-haul-entry-299747) didn't even see HK Airlines potential route to YVR on the radar. LOL at the "attention-getting" A350!

Cathay Pacific's fortunes have been weakened in recent years as competition mounts, mostly from greater regional capacity, some of which feeds other airlines' long haul hubs. Locally Cathay has faced home market competition from Hong Kong Airlines and LCC HK Express, which together have weakened Cathay on its regional services. Yet Cathay has been relatively insulated from the growing direct competition on long haul routes, which have supported its network in recent times and account for a high share of revenue.

Hong Kong Airlines is growing long haul to Australia and New Zealand, but its major threat to Cathay is on North American and European routes, to be launched with forthcoming A350s. Cathay appears to be making a pre-emptive strike by deploying its attention-getting A350 to increase flights to Vancouver, which Cathay expects to be an early Hong Kong Airlines destination.

This is the first time that Cathay is growing Vancouver since the entry of Oasis Hong Kong in 2007. After Oasis' subsequent collapse Cathay withdrew the additional capacity it had mounted. Hong Kong Airlines, however, has stronger backing – HNA – and is already known in the territory. Hong Kong Airlines' impact is guaranteed, but the question is to what extent. This depends on how Hong Kong Airlines sharpens as it becomes the city's second flagship airline.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTaiDTEfDybdq2EXcvVUJkTFDnu8-9_UCI89Zj1PLhEMeuHS_hUitx-yc

https://251d2191a60056d6ba74-1671eccf3a0275494885881efb0852a4.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/6784342_hk-airlines-singles-day-sales_75f91533_m.jpg?bg=778FB7

Johnny Aussie
Sep 2, 2016, 5:34 AM
didn't even see HK Airlines potential route to YVR on the radar. LOL at the "attention-getting" A350

There's a lot of this going on right now and it's not all just rumour.

I think this was definitely a potential going forward. Look at companies' order books and there are a lot of possibilities.

I was expecting CX to increase YVR but with MEX in play as well ;)

Klazu
Sep 2, 2016, 6:40 AM
I flew on Hong Kong Airlines back in February HKG-TPE-HKG in Business Class and it was excellent. They offer very cheap business class (I got mine for the price of Economy!) tickets thoughout their network and it is a proper J experience. Definitely hoping for them to come to YVR!

aznkrazy504
Sep 2, 2016, 7:23 AM
Aeromexico increases YVR starting Jan 10th

trofirhen
Sep 2, 2016, 8:12 AM
Aeromexico increases YVR starting Jan 10th
Will this be an added flight per day Mexico City to YVR and / or another city like Guadalajara or Monterrey?

Johnny Aussie
Sep 2, 2016, 8:51 AM
I flew on Hong Kong Airlines back in February HKG-TPE-HKG in Business Class and it was excellent. They offer very cheap business class (I got mine for the price of Economy!) tickets thoughout their network and it is a proper J experience. Definitely hoping for them to come to YVR!

I think this really is a case of when not if :)

Aeromexico increases YVR starting Jan 10th

Good catch!

Additional flight YVR-MEX added Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays departing at 0700 arriving in MEX at 1425.

So the route goes to 10 weekly with the daily red eye still in place.

Looks like all flights will be operated by 73H aircraft so more seats as well.

Hourglass
Sep 2, 2016, 9:34 AM
Hmm... (http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/cathay-pacific-adds-a350-to-vancouver-preparing-for-hong-kong-airlines-long-haul-entry-299747) didn't even see HK Airlines potential route to YVR on the radar. LOL at the "attention-getting" A350!


Yes, Hong Kong Airlines competes very aggressively on price. At one point, they were offering round trip HKG-DAD fares at HKD600 (around $100 Canadian). HKG-YVR fares will definitely drop if they enter the market.

nname
Sep 2, 2016, 1:49 PM
I think this really is a case of when not if :)

I've heard airlines from Hong Kong allowed 28 weekly into Vancouver. So CX use them all up with this increase?

whatnext
Sep 2, 2016, 7:11 PM
I remember when AC rouge'd YVR routes to SFO and LAX, thankfully corrected. Why did they do that in the first place?

They mistakenly thought the routes were more profitable as leisure, rather than business. As seen from customer reaction (most notably from Rob Lowe (http://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment/rob-lowe-celebrates-air-canada-victory-1.2452096)) they were wrong.

I wonder why they don't operate a Rouge 767 in one rotation with cheaper pricing and market the mainline flights to business, but its probably splitting hairs.

PS my last AC flight LAX-YVR was a boarding gongshow thanks to the renovated terminal at LAX which prioritizes ancilliary revenue over functionality. Deplaning passengers were having to weave their way through the lines of pax and luggage waiting to board their plane. Awful airport.

LeftCoaster
Sep 2, 2016, 7:19 PM
What in the world is going on at YVR right now? The announcements are coming fast and furious! CX going 17 per week, CZ going 777 year round, MU adding Nanjing and AM adding frequencies! Top it all off with a HongKong Airlines rumour and it's been a frantic 48 hours!

:cheers::cheers:

China Eastern had applied to move existing Shanghai-Vancouver to Kunming-Nanjing-Vancouver... 3x weekly

So this is the plan?

8x PVG-YVR
3x KMG-PVG-YVR
3x KMG-NKG-YVR

Total 11 weekly from PVG, 6 weekly from KMG, 3x weekly from NKG

Is this one of the new destinations that Johnny hinted before? :D

Well that was unexpected. I guess the PVG frequencies will need to go to the 77W or 330-300 if they want to keep up the PVG-YVR capacity, which I'm sure they do.


Chongqing is what I'm hearing.


Chongqing? That would be fantastic. I would assume that would be an Air China route?

Additional flight YVR-MEX added Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays departing at 0700 arriving in MEX at 1425.

So the route goes to 10 weekly with the daily red eye still in place.

Looks like all flights will be operated by 73H aircraft so more seats as well.

This plus the China Southern is really going to put a lot of capacity on YVR-MEX. Hopefully CX puts some connecting feed through so it's not all just existing O&D.

mezzanine
Sep 2, 2016, 8:07 PM
Yeah, my guess is that Airbus is finally delivering the long range A350 XWBs to waiting customers and that airlines are finally considering the "long, thin" routes that YVR/787s/A350s may excel at.

Here is another happy customer (http://www.payloadasia.com/2016/08/thai-airways-takes-delivery-first-a350-xwb/) as we speak..

Thai Airways International (THAI) has become the eighth operator of the A350 XWB, following the delivery today of the first of 12 aircraft set to join the carrier’s fleet. The aircraft delivered today is being operated on lease from US-based CIT.

After an initial period flying on regional services between Bangkok and Chiang Mai, the aircraft will be deployed on long haul flights soon thereafter, starting with the Bangkok-Melbourne route.

Altogether THAI has acquired 12 A350-900s with four of these are being purchased directly from Airbus, with the other eight aircraft being acquired under lease agreements.

The national carrier’s president, Charamporn Jotikasthira said recently that the new long-haul aircraft would enable it to relaunch flights to to North America. But the destination focus is likely shift from major cities like Los Angeles and New York to those with a shorter flight time and less intense competition such as Seattle and Vancouver.

But a key hurdle facing THAI’s return to the US however, is the Federal Aviation Administration’s (FAA) downgrading of Thailand’s safety rating. An unsatisfactory audit by International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) led to Thailand being audited by the FAA and subsequently downgraded to Category 2 last year. Until the country returns to Category 1 status, THAI will be unable to launch any new routes to the US.


A catch-22 favouring YVR. Thai is eager to send out the A350s to NA, but can't start a new route to the USA. AFAIK, the FAA downgrade is not for the airline, but for their national system, and the EU hasn't imposed similar restrictions - certainly not on thai airlines itself.

jacobparry
Sep 2, 2016, 9:03 PM
Beijing Capital Airlines offering some eyebrow-raising prices in its YVR route announcement. Don't seem to be available on website though.

"From now until September 30th, travelers who book tickets in advance are entitled to preferential round-trip prices, starting at C$200 (excluding tax) for economy class tickets from Vancouver to Hangzhou, C$320 (excluding tax) for economy class tickets from Vancouver to Qingdao and C$1,950 (excluding tax) for business class tickets from Vancouver to Qingdao and Hangzhou."

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/capital-airlines-signs-route-cooperation-agreement-with-vancouver-airport-authority-in-the-presence-of-canadian-prime-minister-592177801.html

Alpine
Sep 2, 2016, 11:44 PM
What in the world is going on at YVR right now? The announcements are coming fast and furious! CX going 17 per week, CZ going 777 year round, MU adding Nanjing and AM adding frequencies! Top it all off with a HongKong Airlines rumour and it's been a frantic 48 hours!

:cheers::cheers:



Well that was unexpected. I guess the PVG frequencies will need to go to the 77W or 330-300 if they want to keep up the PVG-YVR capacity, which I'm sure they do.



Chongqing? That would be fantastic. I would assume that would be an Air China route?



This plus the China Southern is really going to put a lot of capacity on YVR-MEX. Hopefully CX puts some connecting feed through so it's not all just existing O&D.

Wow. Plus 17 weekly Vancouver-Mexico City flights. I am now fully expecting daily nonstop YVR-SZX, YVR-HGH and YVR-WNZ by 2018 at the latest. This will really tamp down YVR-SIN/BKK/KUL/CGK fares as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see nonstop YVR-SIN by 2020 or 2021, and even an Etihad/Qatar Airways 789 or 359 for that elusive YVR-AUH/YVR-DOH! Taking a look at Emirates' fleet, I don't think there will be a YVR-DXB unless AC opens up the route with a 789. 1x daily A380s would shake up the market, the 77Ws are way too cramped for my liking, maybe a 778X could do it.

trofirhen
Sep 3, 2016, 2:09 AM
Wow. Plus 17 weekly Vancouver-Mexico City flights. I am now fully expecting daily nonstop YVR-SZX, YVR-HGH and YVR-WNZ by 2018 at the latest. This will really tamp down YVR-SIN/BKK/KUL/CGK fares as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see nonstop YVR-SIN by 2020 or 2021, and even an Etihad/Qatar Airways 789 or 359 for that elusive YVR-AUH/YVR-DOH! Taking a look at Emirates' fleet, I don't think there will be a YVR-DXB unless AC opens up the route with a 789. 1x daily A380s would shake up the market, the 77Ws are way too cramped for my liking, maybe a 778X could do it.
:)That's a very optimistic forecast for YVR !! Too bad Turkish is more or less ruled out due to political instability, but Qatar to DOH would be great, I think. Plus all those Asian flights!!
I just wish we had a few more to Mexico (as I had mentioned, GDL or MTY) as South America seems pretty much ruled out, except maybe Lima. A couple more to the US are always welcome;), especially if YVR is to become that Asia-Americas connection hub so often touted.The competition from LAX, SFO, and SEA will be stiff, I'm sure.

Johnny Aussie
Sep 3, 2016, 3:57 AM
Wow. Plus 17 weekly Vancouver-Mexico City flights. I am now fully expecting daily nonstop YVR-SZX, YVR-HGH and YVR-WNZ by 2018 at the latest. This will really tamp down YVR-SIN/BKK/KUL/CGK fares as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see nonstop YVR-SIN by 2020 or 2021, and even an Etihad/Qatar Airways 789 or 359 for that elusive YVR-AUH/YVR-DOH! Taking a look at Emirates' fleet, I don't think there will be a YVR-DXB unless AC opens up the route with a 789. 1x daily A380s would shake up the market, the 77Ws are way too cramped for my liking, maybe a 778X could do it.

Don't hold back!! I bet we see SIN before that. :)

And for Transborder look for Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Raleigh, Austin, Cleveland and Tulsa as well! Lord knows those are huge enough markets to warrant direct YVR flights!

excel
Sep 3, 2016, 8:08 AM
Why is South America ruled out?

casper
Sep 3, 2016, 8:45 AM
Why is South America ruled out?

Economy in Brazil is in trouble. For various internal reasons. End result is many airlines are having trouble maintaining existing routes into Brazil. If you take Sao Paulo airport as an example it only has two Asian airlines. Korean Airlines from Soul via LAX and Singapore Airlines via Barcelona. Both airlines are pulling out of Brazil in October.

The rest of South American is diversified but natural resources are still significant and growth in that area is marginal. The fact Air Canada operates the Toronto flight to Lima as a rogue flight says something about the route.

Basically South American is not in growth mode. I think airlines are more likely to focus on how to maintain the routes they have now instead of expanding.

trofirhen
Sep 3, 2016, 2:26 PM
Don't hold back!! I bet we see SIN before that. :)

And for Transborder look for Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Raleigh, Austin, Cleveland and Tulsa as well! Lord knows those are huge enough markets to warrant direct YVR flights!
If you're being serious here, the surely Charlotte NC would be on the list. Huge banking centre, smaller metro pop than Vancouver,
but a big AA hub going to Mexico, Europe and all over the Caribbean. $$$$:rolleyes:. ... (were you joking about Tulsa? Surely)
Nothing to Asia. Yet.

Hot Rod
Sep 3, 2016, 2:34 PM
Don't hold back!! I bet we see SIN before that. :)

And for Transborder look for Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Raleigh, Austin, Cleveland and Tulsa as well! Lord knows those are huge enough markets to warrant direct YVR flights!

not to be picky, but I would think Oklahoma City-YVR instead of Tulsa. ... OKC is a much larger market and lacks direct international connections.

trofirhen
Sep 3, 2016, 2:58 PM
not to be picky, but I would think Oklahoma City-YVR instead of Tulsa. ... OKC is a much larger market and lacks direct international connections.
Hey Hot Rod, as an American yourself, what do you think might be some other yielding routes out of YVR? I mentioned Charlotte, would that work? (Johnny, did you mean Charlotte when you said Raleigh?)
But what other large American markets could Vancouver serve? (This would mostly be for E Asia, naturally.)

Johnny Aussie
Sep 3, 2016, 6:41 PM
not to be picky, but I would think Oklahoma City-YVR instead of Tulsa. ... OKC is a much larger market and lacks direct international connections. You are right OKC it is! And add St Louis, Albuquerque and Nashville too!! Yeah!

SFUVancouver
Sep 3, 2016, 7:48 PM
Charlotte would be a great route, not just because it is significant and fast-growing market, but because it is American's second largest hub. Plus, it's a pretty great city! I've been down there regularly for work over the last year and absolutely plan on returning for pleasure in the future. A direct flight would have been great.

A direct Atlanta flight is also a flight that would benefit Vancouver well. Similar reasons as Charlotte, but with ATL having an even larger economy and more significant hub status as the busiest airport in the world and Delta's megahub. Atlanta is also an awesome city and one that I'll also definitely one that I'll visit for pleasure after having travelled there for work.

trofirhen
Sep 3, 2016, 11:33 PM
Charlotte would be a great route, not just because it is significant and fast-growing market, but because it is American's second largest hub. Plus, it's a pretty great city! I've been down there regularly for work over the last year and absolutely plan on returning for pleasure in the future. A direct flight would have been great.

A direct Atlanta flight is also a flight that would benefit Vancouver well. Similar reasons as Charlotte, but with ATL having an even larger economy and more significant hub status as the busiest airport in the world and Delta's megahub. Atlanta is also an awesome city and one that I'll also definitely one that I'll visit for pleasure after having travelled there for work.
How much demand (flights per day, pax#) do you imagine for Charlotte and Atlanta respectivesly, as examples. Would there be enough O&D traffic to justify flights;
and then, how many, what metal. As this all fits in with the YVR Asia-Americas gateway hub concept, central to YVR growth in many areas,
what % would be onward going Asian pax? If this pattern of being an intercontinental connector is to work for YVR, then most major cities will need servicing.
Here's Air Canada's chance to turn YVR into a real hub, at last. Will they do it? Can they do it?

Johnny Aussie
Sep 3, 2016, 11:56 PM
How much demand (flights per day, pax#) do you imagine for Charlotte and Atlanta respectivesly, as examples. Would there be enough O&D traffic to justify flights;
and then, how many, what metal. As this all fits in with the YVR Asia-Americas gateway hub concept, central to YVR growth in many areas,
what % would be onward going Asian pax? If this pattern of being an intercontinental connector is to work for YVR, then most major cities will need servicing.
Here's Air Canada's chance to turn YVR into a real hub, at last. Will they do it? Can they do it?

For CLT with about 20 pax per day each way local O&D I would expect at least three daily flights to start. Perhaps on 319s or maybe the new 738s. OK that's a bit much... let's say twice daily.

ATL being a bit of a larger O&D market (closer to 48 ppdew) I could see them expanding to about 4 daily next summer. Well maybe only 3. I am really surprised that DL only flies twice a week now non-stop in the summer only. Perhaps Delta knows something we don't :shrug:

I wouldn't even worry about DL, AA or UA competing hubs in the USA to Asia, or heck even AC at YYZ, I'm sure AC would start re-routing pax from the Eastern seaboard through YVR, with the tremendous demand of O&D and Asian traffic, if we add the flights, they will be at least 25% full I would think!

Time to go check my washing machine again.

Klazu
Sep 4, 2016, 1:06 AM
I am getting some serious flashbacks from this discussion. Again. Didn't we disect this topic to the bone with Leftcoaster's calculations? Let me answer that: Yes we did! :rolleyes:

trofirhen
Sep 4, 2016, 1:34 AM
For CLT with about 20 pax per day each way local O&D I would expect at least three daily flights to start. Perhaps on 319s or maybe the new 738s. OK that's a bit much... let's say twice daily.

ATL being a bit of a larger O&D market (closer to 48 ppdew) I could see them expanding to about 4 daily next summer. Well maybe only 3. I am really surprised that DL only flies twice a week now non-stop in the summer only. Perhaps Delta knows something we don't :shrug:

I wouldn't even worry about DL, AA or UA competing hubs in the USA to Asia, or heck even AC at YYZ, I'm sure AC would start re-routing pax from the Eastern seaboard through YVR, with the tremendous demand of O&D and Asian traffic, if we add the flights, they will be at least 25% full I would think!

Time to go check my washing machine again.
What you describe brings to my imagination an Air Canada route map, with spokes radiating massively out of YYZ, then Montreal, but now, YVR becomes a USA c/d a rather like YYZ !!

trofirhen
Sep 4, 2016, 1:45 AM
For CLT with about 20 pax per day each way local O&D I would expect at least three daily flights to start. Perhaps on 319s or maybe the new 738s. OK that's a bit much... let's say twice daily.

ATL being a bit of a larger O&D market (closer to 48 ppdew) I could see them expanding to about 4 daily next summer. Well maybe only 3.
I am really surprised that DL only flies twice a week now non-stop in the summer only. Perhaps Delta knows something we don't :shrug:


This has often puzzled me, too. If TWOV is operational now, then surely a spate of new routes will appear. Is TWOV going yet? If yes, I'd expect a big expansion to the USA. If not; to work.

Johnny Aussie
Sep 4, 2016, 2:12 AM
I am getting some serious flashbacks from this discussion. Again. Didn't we disect this topic to the bone with Leftcoaster's calculations? Let me answer that: Yes we did! :rolleyes:

On more than one occasion unfortunately... Add San Antonio, Indianapolis, New Orleans and Cedar Rapids to the list... the possibilities are endless!! YVR had better get cracking on that new Transborder terminal. I reckon a 30 gate new terminal should suffice. Something like the Houston Hobby terminal layout would be nice.

trofirhen
Sep 4, 2016, 3:27 AM
On more than one occasion unfortunately... Add San Antonio, Indianapolis, New Orleans and Cedar Rapids to the list... the possibilities are endless!! YVR had better get cracking on that new Transborder terminal. I reckon a 30 gate new terminal should suffice. Something like the Houston Hobby terminal layout would be nice.
Johnny, please ... where are YVR and YYZ at on TWOV? Is it operational yet? (sorry, I asked this in another thread) If it is yet to come on stream, in what time frame. Tambora at YVR
All the destinations mentioned inthe posts above.YVR may become the major western hub to the USA, the way YYZ is to many citiies in the US also, more geared for onward travel to Europe and beyond. YVR has the biggest bite on Asia so far,hope it dynamizes YVR traffic. WITH TWOV, one hopes. If you're serious about the cities listed, YVR is in as a super-USA-coverage hub.

Klazu
Sep 4, 2016, 4:03 AM
My sarcasm radar is through the roof. ;)

SFUVancouver
Sep 4, 2016, 8:51 AM
My sarcasm radar is through the roof. ;)

Mine, too.

Look, as part of the ongoing discussion about route proving and growth, I voiced a preference for a couple of cities that are on my YVR wishlist. I know that O&D numbers don't currently warrant new service, I recall previous discussions, but especially in light of AC and DL's acquiring the C-Series, and the new service to Asia through YVR, there is some ground to dream. If this struck a nerve, I apologize.

Johnny, I really appreciate your contributions to this thread, and LeftCoaster's number crunching on the O&D question. I would enjoy looking through O&D numbers on my own; from where are they being drawn?

whatnext
Sep 4, 2016, 6:01 PM
Anyone know what this is all about?


http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/268636/british-airways-ends-westjet-codeshare-from-mid-oct-2016/

Doesn't hugely effect Vancouver, only two routes were codeshared, but it doesn't bode well for Calgary's BA flight. Cutting that much feed with the economy the way it is there can't be a good sign.

Perhaps BA is miffed about WS expanding onto their home turf? Apparently YVR-UK fares dropped over 30% this year. And WS isn't a Oneworld member, so there's no obligation to work together.

trofirhen
Sep 4, 2016, 9:07 PM
...The concept of making YVR into a Asian - Americas c/d transfer hub, as said, often sarcastically but with great truth, needs a coverage of the major US markets with little or no overseas flights.
For anyone going to Asia from the USA, YVR offers the most choices except LAX and SFO, and often those routes are longer. What if Southwest Airlines got into the act?
SwAirlines seems perfectly set up to do the job. There are numerous large US metros with no direct flights to Asia, or much else: Kansas City, Charlotte (nothing to Asia), Memphis, Cleveland, OK City as mentioned...
Southwest might tap into Vancouver, and use its ready-made network for connecting large American centres that are underved, or underserved, esp for Asia.
So far, they've expressed no interest in Canada, but this time round, could they find manna at YVR for connections to all over the USA? Or not?

casper
Sep 4, 2016, 9:53 PM
...The concept of making YVR into a Asian - Americas c/d transfer hub, as said, often sarcastically but with great truth, needs a coverage of the major US markets with little or no overseas flights.
For anyone going to Asia from the USA, YVR offers the most choices except LAX and SFO, and often those routes are longer. What if Southwest Airlines got into the act?
SwAirlines seems perfectly set up to do the job. There are numerous large US metros with no direct flights to Asia, or much else: Kansas City, Charlotte (nothing to Asia), Memphis, Cleveland, OK City as mentioned...
Southwest might tap into Vancouver, and use its ready-made network for connecting large American centres that are underved, or underserved, esp for Asia.
So far, they've expressed no interest in Canada, but this time round, could they find manna at YVR for connections to all over the USA? Or not?

You have to ask who will operate these routes:

Delta or AA - They have no interest in using Vancouver as a transfer hub. Delta is going to build traffic into their own hubs, namely Seattle. AA is the same way. United has their hubs to feed, they are more likely to partner with Air Canada but I would be surprised they decide to open up new routes to destinations other than their hubs.

Southwest - They have shown no interest in building interline agreement with foreign airlines in places such as LAX or SFO. If they are not going to feed third party airlines in hubs they already operate, I would not expect them to use Vancouver.

Air Canada - Has indicated they want to build up Vancouver. They have made baby steps in that direction. I don't think they are overly interested in providing regional feed for foreign carriers, if they do anything it will be to provide connecting traffic to their own international flights.

Alaska - They have dropped some Vancouver flights and are going to be focused on their merger for the next few years.

WestJet - They are more likely to build out their own network based on O&D and connections to other WestJet flights. If they add a destination in New Mexico it will be because their tour division thinks they can sell tour packages into SantaFe (which by the way is a nice place to vacation) not because of operating feed traffic into Asia. More likely to see a place like Reno (and this a long shot) than some of the other destinations proposed.

The only hope for significant US flights is Air Canada. They are probably going to continue to make baby steps.

Johnny Aussie
Sep 4, 2016, 10:17 PM
Johnny, I really appreciate your contributions to this thread, and LeftCoaster's number crunching on the O&D question. I would enjoy looking through O&D numbers on my own; from where are they being drawn?

Thanks. This discussion has just been brought up over and over.. repeat (spin cycle). Same questions asked, same answers/conclusions.

In any event.... here are all the figures you are asking for. I will repost the link..... This is some very strong data. Enjoy!!

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/51-205-x/2016000/tablesectlist-listetableauxsect-eng.htm

I've downloaded, sorted it in order of market size and voila!

trofirhen
Sep 4, 2016, 10:41 PM
Air Canada - Has indicated they want to build up Vancouver. They have made baby steps in that direction. I don't think they are overly interested in providing regional feed for foreign carriers, if they do anything it will be to provide connecting traffic to their own international flights.

.........................................cut..................
The only hope for significant US flights is Air Canada. They are probably going to continue to make baby steps.
:hell:FRAKKIT !!! And hereI was, reading all this bullshit about KC, OKcity, Memphis, Charlotte, Albuquerque, Atlanta, Boston ..... ain't no tentative routes listed nowhere?
"Baby Steps" is the best we can expect, eh? Meh better than nothing but what a letdown.

trofirhen
Sep 5, 2016, 1:49 AM
Thanks. This discussion has just been brought up over and over.. repeat (spin cycle). Same questions asked, same answers/conclusions.

In any event.... here are all the figures you are asking for. I will repost the link..... This is some very strong data. Enjoy!!

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/51-205-x/2016000/tablesectlist-listetableauxsect-eng.htm

I've downloaded, sorted it in order of market size and voila!
The most recent figures are for 2014, but just for fun, I took the total number of enplaned and deplaned pax for certain routes, divided the # by 365, and got the result.
That's every day of the week at 365, but consider 5X / week routes, and the numbers go up.

You're right. The results are interesting. Many, often most high-pax routes are direct, such as LAX or SFO. But some, like Boston, often include a change of plane.

If, using the figure from TOTAL enplaned & deplaned pax for certain destinations routes, it would work out as in these examples. [2014 numbers]:

ORD- YVR 311 pax per day
BOS- YVR 172 ppd
CLT- YVR 41 ppd
DFW- YVR 137 ppd
IAH- YVR 160 ppd
LAS- YVR 632 ppd
LAX- YVR 1730 ppd
MIA- YVR 108 ppd
ATL- YVR 98 ppd
SFO - YVR 939 ppd
Washington/Baltimre airports - YVR 180 ppd

Please recall that these are 2014 figures, and are probably higher now;
The point being simply that yes, Charlotte is a real long shot at the moment, Dallas and Houston have 2 nonstops a day, but hey! what about Boston or Washington. Check out those pax# !!
Seasonal or nothing to two destinations with higher pax# than Dallas or Houston. (sort of a reference point).
Las Vegas a lot of holiday flights, I know, but the numbers would seem to warrant 4 nonstops a day at least. Miami and Atlanta seem just under the critical mass limit in this report,
but of course are probably a little higher now.

casper
Sep 5, 2016, 3:32 AM
...
Please recall that these are 2014 figures, and are probably higher now;
The point being simply that yes, Charlotte is a real long shot at the moment, Dallas and Houston have 2 nonstops a day, but hey! what about Boston or Washington. Check out those pax# !!
Seasonal or nothing to two destinations with higher pax# than Dallas or Houston. (sort of a reference point).
Las Vegas a lot of holiday flights, I know, but the numbers would seem to warrant 4 nonstops a day at least. Miami and Atlanta seem just under the critical mass limit in this report,
but of course are probably a little higher now.

Two or three years ago, the authorities that control slots at Regan National Airport in DC had a competition to award some new slots they were opening up. Air Canada applied for slots to operate a flight to Vancouver. The slots were awarded to a US airline to operate some additional domestic routes. That would suggest Air Canada sees the DC area as a viable market from Vancouver. However I don't think they have opened up a flight from Vancouver yet.

casper
Sep 5, 2016, 3:43 AM
:hell:FRAKKIT !!! And hereI was, reading all this bullshit about KC, OKcity, Memphis, Charlotte, Albuquerque, Atlanta, Boston ..... ain't no tentative routes listed nowhere?
"Baby Steps" is the best we can expect, eh? Meh better than nothing but what a letdown.

This year, you have Air Canada adding small regional jet service to places like San Diego, San Jose. Plus up gaging to 787 into Newark. Next year hopefully it is another destination or two.

Adding some secondary cities in California would be intersecting to see. It can be done using smaller CRJ aircraft and timed to provide feed to existing Air Canada flights to Asia and Europe. Small incremental additions.

Hourglass
Sep 5, 2016, 1:48 PM
The most recent figures are for 2014, but just for fun, I took the total number of enplaned and deplaned pax for certain routes, divided the # by 365, and got the result.
That's every day of the week at 365, but consider 5X / week routes, and the numbers go up.

You're right. The results are interesting. Many, often most high-pax routes are direct, such as LAX or SFO. But some, like Boston, often include a change of plane.

If, using the figure from TOTAL enplaned & deplaned pax for certain destinations routes, it would work out as in these examples. [2014 numbers]:

ORD- YVR 311 pax per day
BOS- YVR 172 ppd
CLT- YVR 41 ppd
DFW- YVR 137 ppd
IAH- YVR 160 ppd
LAS- YVR 632 ppd
LAX- YVR 1730 ppd
MIA- YVR 108 ppd
ATL- YVR 98 ppd
SFO - YVR 939 ppd
Washington/Baltimre airports - YVR 180 ppd

Please recall that these are 2014 figures, and are probably higher now;
The point being simply that yes, Charlotte is a real long shot at the moment, Dallas and Houston have 2 nonstops a day, but hey! what about Boston or Washington. Check out those pax# !!
Seasonal or nothing to two destinations with higher pax# than Dallas or Houston. (sort of a reference point).
Las Vegas a lot of holiday flights, I know, but the numbers would seem to warrant 4 nonstops a day at least. Miami and Atlanta seem just under the critical mass limit in this report,
but of course are probably a little higher now.

What these figures can't show is the potential impact of a non-stop flight (along with any route-related marketing and promotion). Take the direct YVR-CDG flight as an example. People in Paris previously had 1-stop options via YUL, LHR and FRA, yet with the launch of the AF flight, there was a significant increase in the number of European passengers to YVR. Obviously the impact of a daily B737 flight from, say, ATL will be more limited, but it might still increase the overall size of the pie.

casper
Sep 5, 2016, 4:03 PM
What these figures can't show is the potential impact of a non-stop flight (along with any route-related marketing and promotion). Take the direct YVR-CDG flight as an example. People in Paris previously had 1-stop options via YUL, LHR and FRA, yet with the launch of the AF flight, there was a significant increase in the number of European passengers to YVR. Obviously the impact of a daily B737 flight from, say, ATL will be more limited, but it might still increase the overall size of the pie.

You have to consider why the airline operates the flight.

Air France is doing this route to try to get local Vancouver based passengers to Paris or connecting on other Air France flight out of Paris to their final destinations. If there are some local connections in Vancouver on say Alaska to Portland or WestJet to Victoria, Air France has to share a small amount of that fare with those airlines. If its connecting onto a flight to Japan then Air France is either lousing money if the aircraft is full of connecting passengers because it is giving up at least half the revenue on that flight to the other airline or seats are tight and the passenger is paying a premium. The reality is Air France will always have some empty seats and it probably better to make a few bucks with that connecting passenger than for the seat to go out empty.

The reason Delta would fly from Vancouver to ATL is to pickup local Vancouver customers and feed them into its hub at ATL. As well as feeds passengers at other Delta outstations to Vancouver. It is not going to open up new routes to provide regional feed to airlines based out of Asia. Cruise ship traffic make up of Americans coming into or out of Vancouver makes these types of routes likely for a few months each year.

trofirhen
Sep 5, 2016, 8:38 PM
From the feedback I'm reading, this great idea of Craig Richmond of YVR as a "major transfer hub" between Asia and the Americas is sort of a wet firecracker. Hope I'm wrong.

stiffdeadman
Sep 6, 2016, 5:51 AM
going overboard with all the transborder speculation. u.s. based airlines have very little interest in vancouver and canada in general (other then toronto only because of size). you will only ever see service to the western megahubs and a select few in the east. if there were any viable routes from vancouver they would already be served by now.

delta will never waste a plane on a low yielding offseason daily flight to atlanta. american will certainly never throw one on a charlotte route when they can just filter any passengers on horizon down to seattle through its interline agreement with alaska. hell american won't even put metal on ord-yvr, and they would have more connecting traffic through that hub.

trofirhen
Sep 6, 2016, 10:07 AM
going overboard with all the transborder speculation. u.s. based airlines have very little interest in vancouver and canada in general (other then toronto only because of size). you will only ever see service to the western megahubs and a select few in the east. if there were any viable routes from vancouver they would already be served by now.

delta will never waste a plane on a low yielding offseason daily flight to atlanta. american will certainly never throw one on a charlotte route when they can just filter any passengers on horizon down to seattle through its interline agreement with alaska. hell american won't even put metal on ord-yvr, and they would have more connecting traffic through that hub.
Then it's pretty much up to Air Canada, maybe Westjet. Oh Lordy ........ :uhh:

Johnny Aussie
Sep 7, 2016, 9:13 AM
Aeromexico is bringing forward the increase in MEX-YVR to the 1st of December instead of January 2017.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/268734/aeromexico-schedules-canada-service-expansion-from-dec-2016/

Gordon
Sep 7, 2016, 4:42 PM
Starting Feb 5th Air Canada will begin year round Daily service between YVR & DFW using CRJ 705

CareerShow
Sep 7, 2016, 5:11 PM
Starting Feb 5th Air Canada will begin year round Daily service between YVR & DFW using CRJ 705
Thats another nice destination for Air Canada. Seems they are slowly picking off the large centres they dont serve from Vancouver. Im guessing this route will be perfect for the C Series as well as the San Diego route. Nice having so many CRJ 705 at YVR now, didnt used to have any flights it seemed before this year. Anyone have any idea how the new Chicago, San Diego, and San Jose flights are doing?

Johnny Aussie
Sep 7, 2016, 5:22 PM
Starting Feb 5th Air Canada will begin year round Daily service between YVR & DFW using CRJ 705

Here is Air Canada's press release. Great transborder addition for YVR!

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1051

And a mini-blog blurb from YVR.

http://www.yvr.ca/en/blog/ac-adds-daily-to-dallas

YVR-DFW was served by Canadian Airlines back in the 90s when they were tied up with AA. So this time a little competition for AA.

excel
Sep 7, 2016, 6:38 PM
Great news about DFW. It would be even better to see it switched to mainline E190! Jazz sucks ;)

LeftCoaster
Sep 7, 2016, 6:58 PM
Look it's Johnny playing with Trofirhen !

http://cdn-media-1.lifehack.org/wp-content/files/2014/09/cat-chasing-laser.gif

LeftCoaster
Sep 7, 2016, 7:00 PM
Starting Feb 5th Air Canada will begin year round Daily service between YVR & DFW using CRJ 705

Great news. Just more evidence of AC building up its hub at YVR.

It may not be Cedar Rapids International but it's a good start!

Looking at DFW's route listing their Asia connections are pretty poor so YVR should be able to provide a lot of options for DFW's O&D. Great addition.

teriyaki
Sep 7, 2016, 8:39 PM
Here is Air Canada's press release. Great transborder addition for YVR!

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1051

And a mini-blog blurb from YVR.

http://www.yvr.ca/en/blog/ac-adds-daily-to-dallas

YVR-DFW was served by Canadian Airlines back in the 90s when they were tied up with AA. So this time a little competition for AA.

Definitely nice to see this one materialize. AA had this market completely to themselves for the longest time. Rooting for some healthy competition now.

Vagabond
Sep 7, 2016, 8:59 PM
Starting Feb 5th Air Canada will begin year round Daily service between YVR & DFW using CRJ 705

That's a long flight for a CRJ. Must be one of (if not the) longest CRJ routes in North America.

According to GCM (http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=yvr-dfw&MS=wls&DU=km), YVR-DFW is actually 50 km longer than AC's listed range (http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/fleet/crj705.html) for the CRJ 705.

SFUVancouver
Sep 7, 2016, 9:19 PM
That's great news about the Air Canada DFW flight. It will be good to have a Star Alliance option to connect the cities, though the in-flight product will be superior with Mainline AA and 737 equipment vs Regional AC and a RJ. That's definitely going to be a long haul for a CRJ700 but it will essentially be route proving until Air Canada gets its CSeries and 737Max fleets up and running. I would expect it to be mainlined at that point with either a CS300 or possibly 737Max-8 if the loads warrant it.

mrtinvan
Sep 7, 2016, 10:24 PM
That's great news about the Air Canada DFW flight. It will be good to have a Star Alliance option to connect the cities, though the in-flight product will be superior with Mainline AA and 737 equipment vs Regional AC and a RJ. That's definitely going to be a long haul for a CRJ700 but it will essentially be route proving until Air Canada gets its CSeries and 737Max fleets up and running. I would expect it to be mainlined at that point with either a CS300 or possibly 737Max-8 if the loads warrant it.

I read very recently that Jazz is going to remove the Business Class cabins on all 37 of the 705's and convert them to CRJ-900 specifications, which includes the range extension of 300 some odd KM.

jmt18325
Sep 7, 2016, 10:33 PM
I read very recently that Jazz is going to remove the Business Class cabins on all 37 of the 705's and convert them to CRJ-900 specifications, which includes the range extension of 300 some odd KM.


And I think they intend to buy more. Had no idea about them getting rid of first class. I'd just heard about an additional seat to go from CR705 to CR9

Gordon
Sep 7, 2016, 10:34 PM
It looks like DFW is 25miles short of the 705s max range.

LeftCoaster
Sep 7, 2016, 10:56 PM
Guess we know some other reasons why BA and One World are out and SkyTeam: Delta, Air France, KLM are in:

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/274-a-2016

WestJet, on behalf of itself, Compass, SkyWest and Delta, has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) for an approval to permit WestJet to provide its scheduled international service between Canada and Mexico by selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by Compass, SkyWest and Delta between the United States of America and Mexico, for a period of three years or such longer period as may be authorized by the Agency.

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/266-a-2016

WestJet, on behalf of itself and Air France, has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) for an approval to permit Air France to provide its scheduled international service between France and Canada via the United States of America, and between France and beyond Canada to the United States of America, by selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by WestJet between Canada and the United States of America, for a period of five years or such longer period as may be authorized by the Agency.

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/267-a-2016

WestJet, on behalf of itself and KLM, has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) for an approval to permit KLM to provide its scheduled international service between the Netherlands and Canada via the United States of America, and between the Netherlands and beyond Canada to the United States of America, by selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by WestJet between Canada and the United States of America, for a period of five years or such longer period as may be authorized by the Agency.


Interesting info from the YEG thread. I wonder if this is in advance of WestJet joining Skyteam. Looks like it to me.

Would be interesting to see how an alliance would affect YVR. I would think that it would force Westjet to focus more of its ops into YVR and out of YYC, as the skyteam presence at YVR is simply massive, even larger than Seattle and they're a Skyteam hub!

Just for reference, skyteam intl' summer ops at select North American airports:


SFO: 20,788 seats per day
YVR: 19,172 seats per day
SEA: 18,711 seats per day
YYZ: 14,762 seats per day
YUL: 9,408 seats per day
YYC: 1,708 seats per day

trofirhen
Sep 7, 2016, 11:20 PM
Is this true and are you serious? We're ahead of SEATTLE and just a bit behind SFO? And this is Skyteam, which includes Delta - so big in Seattle? Wheeeeew!!! If it's true. Even beat YYZ!:D
Amazing if Westjet joins Skyteam. Going head to head with *A like that.

jmt18325
Sep 7, 2016, 11:28 PM
That's great news about the Air Canada DFW flight. It will be good to have a Star Alliance option to connect the cities, though the in-flight product will be superior with Mainline AA and 737 equipment vs Regional AC and a RJ.

It couldn't be much more cramped than a 737. It isn't, from what I remember.

jmt18325
Sep 7, 2016, 11:32 PM
I read very recently that Jazz is going to remove the Business Class cabins on all 37 of the 705's and convert them to CRJ-900 specifications, which includes the range extension of 300 some odd KM.

The CRJ900 will be configured in a dual class with 76 seats with 12 seats in Business Class and 64 seats in Economy, including 20 Preferred seats which offer greater legroom. This configuration has become a standard for North American operators of the aircraft. Every seat will offer seatback in-flight entertainment as well as Gogo onboard internet access.

http://airwaysnews.com/blog/2016/04/26/air-canada-express-to-take-delivery-of-five-crj900s/

nname
Sep 7, 2016, 11:49 PM
the in-flight product will be superior with Mainline AA and 737 equipment vs Regional AC and a RJ.

Is it? I don't recall AA got seatback on-demand TV for their 737s...

Klazu
Sep 7, 2016, 11:59 PM
I hope Westjet will join Skyteam before end of the year so that I can get miles from my YVR-YYC-AMS-HEL-AMS-YVR trip in December. It was interesting that Westjet/KLM through Calgary was the cheapest route.

I was surprised tgat KLM flies a Dreamliner to Calgary but an A330 to Vancouver during winter. Oh well, better than the DC9 from the past...

casper
Sep 8, 2016, 1:52 AM
The CRJ900 will be configured in a dual class with 76 seats with 12 seats in Business Class and 64 seats in Economy, including 20 Preferred seats which offer greater legroom. This configuration has become a standard for North American operators of the aircraft. Every seat will offer seatback in-flight entertainment as well as Gogo onboard internet access.

http://airwaysnews.com/blog/2016/04/26/air-canada-express-to-take-delivery-of-five-crj900s/

It is about time. The 705 in really a 900 that was configured with fewer seat due to union scope rules at Air Canada. It likely had other artificial limits imposed on it to justify selling it for a lower price. Not certain if these limits are real physical attributes of the aircraft or they are limits in the software and certification paper work.

Since the 705 is the same size inside as a 900 it had great legroom. Not anymore after the upgrade.

casper
Sep 8, 2016, 1:55 AM
I hope Westjet will join Skyteam before end of the year so that I can get miles from my YVR-YYC-AMS-HEL-AMS-YVR trip in December. It was interesting that Westjet/KLM through Calgary was the cheapest route.

I was surprised tgat KLM flies a Dreamliner to Calgary but an A330 to Vancouver during winter. Oh well, better than the DC9 from the past...

Cool. If WestJet joined Skyteam I would shift a good percentage of my flying to WestJet from Air Canada.

On a different topic, Boeing just opened up a new office in Yaletown.

jmt18325
Sep 8, 2016, 2:14 AM
Since the 705 is the same size inside as a 900 it had great legroom. Not anymore after the upgrade.

It'll have normal legroom now I'd think. No more 34" pitch though (maybe the 20 preferred seats). It looks like they're adding 1 more business seat (from 75 to 76 total - it's only a 1 seat difference) and adding another business seat at the expense of a Y seat.

whatnext
Sep 8, 2016, 3:40 AM
It is about time. The 705 in really a 900 that was configured with fewer seat due to union scope rules at Air Canada. It likely had other artificial limits imposed on it to justify selling it for a lower price. Not certain if these limits are real physical attributes of the aircraft or they are limits in the software and certification paper work.

Since the 705 is the same size inside as a 900 it had great legroom. Not anymore after the upgrade.

About time for what? This adds a whopping one seat to its total capacity, though in true Air Canada fashion it screws over the Economy pax to achieve an extra three J class seats.

jmt18325
Sep 8, 2016, 3:47 AM
About time for what? This adds a whopping one seat to its total capacity, though in true Air Canada fashion it screws over the Economy pax to achieve an extra three J class seats.

If that makes more money, it makes more money. There are still 20 preferred seats.

sacrifice333
Sep 8, 2016, 3:57 AM
I hope Westjet will join Skyteam before end of the year so that I can get miles from my YVR-YYC-AMS-HEL-AMS-YVR trip in December. It was interesting that Westjet/KLM through Calgary was the cheapest route.

I was surprised tgat KLM flies a Dreamliner to Calgary but an A330 to Vancouver during winter. Oh well, better than the DC9 from the past...


I normally attempt to credit my WJ flights to AA. Anything's better then the WJ dollars.

Hourglass
Sep 8, 2016, 4:16 AM
Is this true and are you serious? We're ahead of SEATTLE and just a bit behind SFO? And this is Skyteam, which includes Delta - so big in Seattle? Wheeeeew!!! If it's true. Even beat YYZ!:D
Amazing if Westjet joins Skyteam. Going head to head with *A like that.

Remember this is **international** seats. If you include domestic traffic, the picture is very different. But anyway, YVR is going from strength to strength on the international front.

It'll be interesting to see if Calgary's new international terminal will have any effect on YVR's growth.

Johnny Aussie
Sep 8, 2016, 6:33 AM
Remember this is **international** seats. If you include domestic traffic, the picture is very different. But anyway, YVR is going from strength to strength on the international front.

It'll be interesting to see if Calgary's new international terminal will have any effect on YVR's growth.

As an Albertan so not showing bias!!

Terminals do not fuel growth, market size does.

There is nothing stopping any airline (within bilateral restrictions of course) from launching any service from YYC. With the new international terminal soon set to open there have been no route announcements post opening day yet. AM and CX could start YYC but have decided to increase YVR instead.

So now that we've all looked at the O&D Transborder numbers (again) hopefully we can put this to bed again.

Hourglass
Sep 8, 2016, 10:48 AM
As an Albertan so not showing bias!!

Terminals do not fuel growth, market size does.

There is nothing stopping any airline (within bilateral restrictions of course) from launching any service from YYC. With the new international terminal soon set to open there have been no route announcements post opening day yet. AM and CX could start YYC but have decided to increase YVR instead.

Yup, agree... unless the airport is severely capacity constrained (think Kai Tak in HK pre 1998 before Chek Lap Kok was built).

But if this isn't really the case with YYC, and given the limited market size (as you point out), then I can't help but think the new international terminal seems like overkill: 2 million square feet of terminal space (doubling the size of the airport) and the addition of 24 international gates. I mean, I believe YVR only has around 34 international gates at present.

Maybe they're simply future proofing against long-term growth, but one can't help but wonder if YYC is also angling to try to grab some international transfer traffic?

Johnny Aussie
Sep 8, 2016, 11:25 AM
Yup, agree... unless the airport is severely capacity constrained (think Kai Tak in HK pre 1998 before Chek Lap Kok was built).

But if this isn't really the case with YYC, and given the limited market size (as you point out), then I can't help but think the new international terminal seems like overkill: 2 million square feet of terminal space (doubling the size of the airport) and the addition of 24 international gates. I mean, I believe YVR only has around 34 international gates at present.

Maybe they're simply future proofing against long-term growth, but one can't help but wonder if YYC is also angling to try to grab some international transfer traffic?

Funny I was going to go back and edit about terminal or even runway constraints.

But yeah the "if we build it, they will come" strategy doesn't really work.

I'm sure YYC would love to grab some more international transfer traffic and perhaps the experience there will be fantastic. But at the end of the day YVR just seems to be gaining new flights from all over the place and this trend is not slowing. Although recently YYC has had some wins with Edelweiss and Hainan.

In a more local context YYC is gaining some traffic at YEG's expense as Alberta continues to struggle a bit. This winter both AC and WS are drawing down capacity further at YEG... meanwhile YYC is relatively flat. YYC is becoming a more significant gateway to the north. Both AC and WS are slowly shifting more capacity from the North to YYC from YEG. The AC offerings from YEG this winter are significantly lower than I have seen in ages. However, all this means both AC and WS are trying to support their hubs at YYC more or less.

casper
Sep 8, 2016, 12:46 PM
About time for what? This adds a whopping one seat to its total capacity, though in true Air Canada fashion it screws over the Economy pax to achieve an extra three J class seats.

Building something like an aircraft, and them artificially limiting it usefulness by giving it a new part number and limiting what can done with it has always sounded odd to me.

Air Canada can make a premium on seat selection by taking part of the economy cabin making it a better passenger experience while making the rest a poorer experience. They did it to the other aircraft types in the fleet this one was just a matter of time.

LeftCoaster
Sep 8, 2016, 5:03 PM
I'm sure YYC would love to grab some more international transfer traffic and perhaps the experience there will be fantastic. But at the end of the day YVR just seems to be gaining new flights from all over the place and this trend is not slowing. Although recently YYC has had some wins with Edelweiss and Hainan.

YYC's difficulty in taking transfer PAX from YVR is that even if they do provide a fantastic experience, they are trying to out perform an airport that is consistently ranked one of the best on the continent. It's not like they are going up against an incumbent like LAX which has huge numbers but a lot of people would avoid if they could since the experience is awful, most reports seem to be that YVR is an airport of choice.

trofirhen
Sep 8, 2016, 5:21 PM
YYC's difficulty in taking transfer PAX from YVR is that even if they do provide a fantastic experience, they are trying to out perform an airport that is consistently ranked one of the best on the continent. It's not like they are going up against an incumbent like LAX which has huge numbers but a lot of people would avoid if they could since the experience is awful, most reports seem to be that YVR is an airport of choice.
How does SEA-TAC stand up against YVR, in the categories on which airports are ranked?

Johnny Aussie
Sep 8, 2016, 5:45 PM
YYC's difficulty in taking transfer PAX from YVR is that even if they do provide a fantastic experience, they are trying to out perform an airport that is consistently ranked one of the best on the continent. It's not like they are going up against an incumbent like LAX which has huge numbers but a lot of people would avoid if they could since the experience is awful, most reports seem to be that YVR is an airport of choice.

Absolutely true. And the next expansion plan will be announced very soon. YVR is also constantly looking at improving the connection process. There is a lot of competition out there but YVR's leader seems to be dealing with that very well. I'd say since Mr Richmond has taken over there has been an unprecedented slew of new airlines, routes, services and improvements. He is helping chart the course for a solid competitive airport.

LeftCoaster
Sep 8, 2016, 11:00 PM
How does SEA-TAC stand up against YVR, in the categories on which airports are ranked?

http://www.worldairportawards.com/Awards/world_airport_rating.html

Johnny Aussie
Sep 8, 2016, 11:39 PM
http://www.worldairportawards.com/Awards/world_airport_rating.html

I cringe at Skytrax's lists.... the fact Melbourne Airport is ranked so high (even #25) is rubbish. I agree with the top rankings generally but once it goes deeper down the list it all seems so arbitrary. Adelaide at #69 is far superior to MEL in so many ways.

trofirhen
Sep 9, 2016, 3:48 PM
Just a remark, with a link about Norwegian establishing a Barcelona long-haul base for several US, mostly West Coast, cities.
:rolleyes:I wish there were a large enough market for them to come here from Barcelona, or even seasonally from Oslo. Wealthy Norwegians can fly where they want for holidays, and if there were a Tahiti market, the most direct nonstop OSL-PPT route cuts over the northern third of Vancouver Island, near Port Hardy. Voilà.
Such might be a seasonal route, but would be a start.... I know.... Dream on. But such an airline, and another European destination, still wouldn't be a bad thing for YVR to have.
http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/268762/where-is-norwegians-latest-long-haul-base/

Gordon
Sep 9, 2016, 7:47 PM
the fares on the new Air Canada yvr DFW service is $657 canadian #200 more thatn flying out of seattle

trofirhen
Sep 9, 2016, 8:29 PM
the fares on the new Air Canada yvr DFW service is $657 canadian #200 more thatn flying out of seattle
No impoliteness intended, but I would assume that is after the currency exchange rate is factored in?