[sugit]

I figured we should kill the DT Arena thread cause it's not going to happen.

Here is a little renewed hope. Let's see how this one goes

Tsakopoulos does seem like he is doing his damnest to get something done
____________________________________________________

http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/basketball/kings/story/13698827p-14541554c.html

Developer proposes another arena plan

Local developer Angelo K. Tsakopoulos has been working for months on a new proposal to finance an arena for the Kings by developing land he owns in rural eastern Sacramento County, say several people who have been involved in the talks.

In addition, Tsakopoulos has approached area Indian tribes, flush with casino profits, to ask for their help in financing a new Kings facility.

The idea is not to build an arena in eastern Sacramento County, an area of rolling grassland and oak trees, but to provide money to build an arena elsewhere, most likely North Natomas, the sources said.

Some local leaders said Tsakopoulos' latest plan would be more difficult to pull off than his previous arena financing proposal, which collapsed in February. Nonetheless, they said, the idea seems to be the most viable thing going at the moment.

Howard Dickstein, an attorney who represents several Indian tribes, said Tuesday his clients are interested in helping keep the Kings in Sacramento. Details of their participation have not been worked out.

We've been having discussions with the interested parties for a long time," said Dickstein, who represents the Rumsey Band of Wintun Indians, the United Auburn Indian Community and the Jackson Rancheria Band of Miwok Indians, all of whom operate casinos in the area.

"So far, nothing has come together," Dickstein added. "The interested parties appear to be Angelo, his company and the Sacramento Kings. I wish there were more interested parties, but there aren't."

The specifics of Tsakopoulos' latest proposal remain unknown. Steve Capps, spokesman for Tsakopoulos' AKT Development, said the developer would have no comment.

Kings co-owner Joe Maloof said he and his brother Gavin have been approached by "a couple of people who are in private business. Angelo's one of them. There are others.

"Angelo has been working very diligently on this, (but) if it doesn't work out with Angelo, it doesn't mean that the whole thing is in deep trouble. … We're still trying. Still trying," Joe Maloof said.

Tsakopoulos controls thousands of acres in eastern Sacramento County - south of Highway 50 and between Rancho Cordova and the El Dorado County line. Those briefed on his current proposal say the land he is seeking to develop lies outside the urban growth boundary in the county's general plan.

Much of this land recently was left as open space by the Sacramento Area Council of Governments when it crafted a long-term growth blueprint for the region.

Tsakopoulos also has discussed the possibility of including some of his western El Dorado County holdings in the deal, said those involved in the talks.

Some local leaders say they've told the developer that any proposal to open eastern Sacramento County to building would stir opposition from environmentalists and would face numerous logistical hurdles, including the lack of adequate roads, water and other infrastructure needed to serve new homes.

"It's outside the urban services boundary, there are huge infrastructure issues. … It's years away, at best," Sacramento County Supervisor Roger Dickinson said.

Mike McKeever, executive director of the Sacramento Area Council of Governments, said Tsakopoulos' previous arena proposal - although it failed - was more realistic.

It would have involved rezoning much of the remaining farmland in North Natomas. That land, unlike the east county, had been earmarked for eventual growth by the city and county.

The North Natomas proposal collapsed in February after several property owners, including the prominent Ose family, said they would not participate. As conceived by Tsakopoulos, the plan asked landowners to commit 20 percent of their profits from development to an arena.

McKeever said he had "some regrets" that the North Natomas proposal fell apart. He thinks it would take years to sort out the transportation, air quality and open space issues in the east county.

"I think Angelo has done the region a service by pursuing this, but I think this latest iteration is probably a 10 out of 10 in degree of difficulty, and maybe it's time to think of other ways that are not connected to land use to save the Kings," McKeever said.

The Kings owners have made it clear they're impatient for an arena deal. They haven't set a deadline, but they've repeatedly stressed that Arco is obsolete.

"We don't know what the timetable is," Maloof said Tuesday. "We've been at this for six years now, and (prior owner) Jim Thomas was at it for four years before us. Who knows what the timetable is? Something has to get done sooner or later, we all know that."

Some Kings fans, including the tribes represented by Dickstein, fear that the team will leave Sacramento if a state-of-the-art arena is not built. Sacramento's elected officials have been largely silent on the topic in recent months.

"The tribes, like a lot of residents in the area, are concerned that this could be the 11th hour and that the Kings will be forced to take other opportunities because of the lack of responsiveness from this community," Dickstein said.

[Schmoe]

I don't get excited about this stuff anymore. Starting to feel like Majin.

[innov8]

Developer proposes another arena plan

"Angelo has been working very diligently on this, (but) if it doesn't work out with Angelo, it doesn't mean that the whole thing is in deep trouble. … We're still trying. Still trying," Joe Maloof said.

I'm glad to hear the wheels are still turing on this behind the scenes.

[sugit]

I don't get excited about this stuff anymore. Starting to feel like Majin.

I feel ya on that one. I think I need to see a headline that says "New Arena Deal Expected Within Days" before I start getting excited.

[enigma99a]

Public help will be needed... Sorry but this can't be done privately. City leaders were going to have a ballot, but forgot about it. Wusses.

[sugit]

Those Indian Casnios are filthy rich. I'm not sure what kind of deal they would want, but they def have the money to back it up.

and maybe it's time to think of other ways that are not connected to land use to save the Kings," McKeever said

I think he has a good point.

[joninsac]

If Tsakopolous can pull a new arena out of his ass somehow, then he can have his Parthenon tower and all the monuments, statues, gargoyles or whatever else he intends to put on it.

[enigma99a]

Those Indian Casnios are filthy rich. I'm not sure what kind of deal they would want, but they def have the money to back it up.

Hey costa, what about putting slot machines in the same building as an arena? haha. Or call it Eagle Feathers Arena

[sugit]

My three vises in life: Kings Basketball, Gambling and Booze (No, I am not an alcoholic :cheers: ) all under one roof? Damn maybe they should build some condo's into the arena so I'd never have to leave. haha

Eagle Feathers Arena could be interesting. Sell it as a way to pay homage to their ancestors...seriously

[Construction Guy]

I like that.

Eagle Feathers Arena.

In my opinion, the most logical spot for a new arena is the railyards. DT, freeway close, Amtrak station, future Greyhound station (maybe), RT buses, not too far from some existing eateries and drinkeries, ... an urban blank slate at this point.

[Majin]

I don't get excited about this stuff anymore. Starting to feel like Majin.

:)

[urban_encounter]

There is nobody to blame for lack of an Arena deal except for the people who live in the city and county of Sacramento. Repeatedly deals have surfaced that would have placed the taxes on visitors using our hotels rooms and rental car facilities and still the public here ins't behind the Arena. Some people have their heads in the Tule Fog and are in denial to the fact the the Maloofs would ever leave Sacramento (which is a false assumption). Others who don't believe Arco needs to be replaced (which is another lie). And still others that believe the Maloofs can build it themselves and could still put a winning team on the floor.

Here's my take.


This should go to the ballot with various tax increase proposals.

Rental cars, Hotel rooms, maybe even liquor. If the people of Sacramento vote it down then there will be nobody to blame but ourselves. It's time for people in this region to put up our shut up. If we can't get it done, I wont blame the Maloofs if they choose to move.

While I genuinely admire Tsakopoulos for trying, he has his own interests at stake. (That's o.k. by me). But what's not o.k. with me is the idea of opening up more open space to yet more sprawl. I wouldn't vote for this and I doubt many in Sacramento will. We need to be discouraging sprawl and providing real alternatives for people who want to return downtown.

I would hate to lose the Kings, but I don't think we would have to, if people in Sacramento would take the time and pull their heads out of their butts. A tax on rental cars, liquor, and hotel rooms will be born by visitors and those of us who like to have a drink now and again.


But to open up the "Northern Territories" north of Natomas or to open Eastern Sacramento County, would contradict what we're trying to do downtown.

one more thing.... I am a basketball fanatic. I love the Kings. But I do not believe for a second that Sacramento has to have a major league sport to validate itself or make it feel good about who it is.


Create a relaible, clean and expanded mass transit system (which we're doing), invest in schools, cultural amenities, the central city and this will still be a desirable destination for people and companies looking to relocate here.

We should try to keep the Kings, but there are better ways of doing it besides trading an Arena for more sprawl.

[What is a Rivercat?]

What is the arena the Connecticut WNBA team plays in? That one is an indian casino.

[ltsmotorsport]

Yeah, I think it's part of the worlds largest casino that they have up there.

As for this plan, I kinda don't care anymore. Once I saw the best idea ever shot down (replacing 1/3 of DT Plaza with a new arena), it really turned me off to the whole thing.

As for opening up new land, SACOG already expects that land to be developed in the future, but this would obviously speed that up. *hint; if you wanna get really disgusted, drive down S. Sunrise to Grant Line. You'll wanna hurl, and then go after the County.*

[sugit]

What is the arena the Connecticut WNBA team plays in? That one is an indian casino.

Yup, looks like the name is Mohegan Sun Arena

[Majin]

Fuck it, at this point I dont care open up the sprawl land and let it pour in. As long as we get a new arena i'd sell my soul. Sacramento needs a major sports team or two to make ourselves feel better. Yes we need the kings to validate ourselves as a real city. If we lose the kings we might as well rename Sacramento to "Anytown, USA" and remove ourselves from all the maps and any news. We will be the most generic/suburban city in the USA.

[Schmoe]

Maybe Tsakopoulos can build an arena on top of a skyscraper.

Or even better, Saca can build an arena on top of a skyscraper that looks like a scale model of the Colisseum to honor his heritage. :nuts:

[sugit]

Why do the Maloofs need a 400 Million dollar arena again?

If Charlette can do it for 265, we should be able to do it for 300M tops. THen again, it took them 5 years

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2197837

Bobcats unveil $265M downtown Charlotte arena

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- After more than five years of political angst, Charlotte is ready to take the wrapper off a $265 million downtown arena that will be home to the NBA's Charlotte Bobcats.

And the officials who helped design the building believe they have a winner.

I think this building, not only from a budget standpoint but also from an aesthetic standpoint, is the best [arena] in the country," building chief operating officer Barry Silberman said Wednesday as the media toured the arena two blocks from the center of downtown Charlotte.

Mayor Pat McCrory and Bobcats owner Bob Johnson are to officially open Charlotte Bobcats Arena at a ribbon-cutting ceremony Thursday. The Rolling Stones headline the first arena event Friday, while the Bobcats open their home schedule Nov. 5 against the Boston Celtics.

The city acquired land and paid for construction of the building, which is being operated by the team.

The 19,000-seat arena replaces the suburban Charlotte Coliseum, which opened in 1988 for the NBA's Charlotte Hornets but was quickly made obsolete by a new generation of sports arenas outfitted with luxury suites and other upscale amenities. The Hornets moved to New Orleans in 2002, one year after voters rejected a proposal to use public money to pay for a downtown arena and other center-city projects.

When the city agreed to build the arena anyway, the NBA granted Charlotte another franchise, the Bobcats. The team played its first season last year at the Coliseum, averaging 14,432 fans.

The tepid response has been attributed in part to residual anger over the arena controversy. Published reports in recent weeks have said the team is struggling to sell tickets.

Bobcats officials won't discuss ticket sales, but have said they believe word of mouth will help fill the stands after the arena opens.

With a brick, glass and steel exterior, the building aims to evoke both Charlotte's roots in the industrial South and the present-day banking towers that dominate the city's skyline.

"We were not looking for an icon building, but for one that was beautiful, hopefully, and fit in with the city, " said architect Doug Brown of the Kansas City, Mo., firm of Ellerbe Becket.

Inside, allusions to Charlotte and the Carolinas are thick. A massive mural inside the building's main entrance plaza off Trade Street looks at the history of basketball in the Piedmont; artwork on the upper concourse surveys Charlotte's history from the 18th century to the present. The "Pit Stop BBQ" stand alludes to the region's ties to stock-car racing, while a "Flight Deck" food and beverage area pays homage to the Wright Brothers' first flight at Kitty Hawk.

Two levels of luxury suites ring the lower bowl of the arena. A fine-dining restaurant at the suite level along one baseline will allow patrons to eat dinner while they watch a game or a concert.

Gone are the glass windows that often front luxury suites, with the seats pushed onto terraces in front of the main suite space. The aim was to "make the suite fans part of the crowd," Ellerbe Becket architect Susan Fulton said.

The arena also has outdoor terrace with skyline views, and the upper concourse also has an elevated stage for musical performances and a play space for kids.

Bobcats players weren't forgotten, either. The team's practice court is part of the arena complex and the players-only area includes a theater with a 60-inch plasma screen, a lounge, a state-of-the-art hydrotherapy center and a soothingly lit locker room.

A dominant feature is the massive scoreboard. Four 16-by-28-foot LED video screens hang over center court, topped by a wraparound three-dimensional sculpture of the Charlotte skyline.

[urban_encounter]

Actually I'm getting kind of tired of the Maloofs. If they want a new arena then they need to say what they want and by what date. Then they need to say what they're willing to pay. They need to ante up more than 20% since they will be controlling all concessions and naming rights. 20% is not a "fair share".

[brandon12]

Actually I'm getting kind of tired of the Maloofs. If they want a new arena then they need to say what they want and by what date. Then they need to say what they're willing to pay. They need to ante up more than 20% since they will be controlling all concessions and naming rights. 20% is not a "fair share".

I agree completely.

[enigma99a]

I agree too.. And naming rights alone would almost pay for their share.

[GrowinUp]

I think Tsakopoulos should buy the A's and focus his efforts on expanding Raley Field. I'm not much of a baseball fan, but I know that it would be great for the city, economically and marketably. And it would be good for the A's franchise as well.

I love Basketball and I love the Kings, but, I'm sick of the Maloofs and there "aw shucks" persona and dumb-ass attitudes. With the uncooperative defiance they take surrounding talks of a new arena, coupled with the fact that they pushed so hard and inevitably suceeded at taking the All-Star games to Vegas, it is painfully obvious they have absolutely no interest in the community of this great and proud city that is Sacramento.

How does the "Las Vegas Kings" sound to you?

[squintstopher]

Las Vegas will probably never have an NBA team, or at least as long as Stern is Commissioner. Don't worry about that. But I do agree that the Maloofs need to stop playing games and just take a hard line on this.

If they'll leave if an arena doesn't get built, they ought tell the people that! It's the only thing that will get their attention. Most people see no need to get an arena. If it's as clear a choice as arena or no Kings, people can make a decision and we can get on with our lives. If people care enough about the Kings to build an arena, great. If not, the Kings can leave, fair and square.

[What is a Rivercat?]

I think Tsakopoulos should buy the A's and focus his efforts on expanding Raley Field. I'm not much of a baseball fan, but I know that it would be great for the city, economically and marketably. And it would be good for the A's franchise as well.

Word to your mother. I like the Kings a lot, but I'd much rather be a baseball town than a basketball town. Cold you imagine having the World Series in Sactown!!??

[urban_encounter]

Could you imagine having the World Series in Sactown!!??


No because I hate baseball, especially major league baseball. It's season is way too long (like 5 months too long). Besides baseball unlike football or basketball is not a sport that thrives in smaller markets, which Sacramento is.

I tolerate Triple A. I don't think this city is ready for both basekball and baseball, and I hope the fans are smart enough to know we need to take care of the team we have first.

That is if the MaGoofs, quit playing games and get serious about letting us know what they want and what their "fair share" translates to.

[GrowinUp]

^ In what way do you feel Sac is not ready for more major sports? Because of its size? Same size as Kansas City -- Cleveland and Denver aren't much bigger. We are bigger than Milwaukee and New Orleans, Jacksonville and Indianapolis. What's more, we have the 15th largest media market in the nation. We make more money than most of the aforementioned cities.

[urban_encounter]

^ In what way do you feel Sac is not ready for more major sports? Because of its size? Same size as Kansas City -- Cleveland and Denver aren't much bigger. We are bigger than Milwaukee and New Orleans, Jacksonville and Indianapolis. What's more, we have the 15th largest media market in the nation. We make more money than most of the aforementioned cities.


I didn't say we weren't ready for "more major sports". I said major league baseball is not a good fit for Sacramento. Sacramento (is actually the 19th largest media market, not the 15th). We have the population (2 million in the metro and closer to 3 million within an hours drive of the capitol) We also have the largest media market in the nation without either football or baseball. But baseball just doesn't seem to do well in smaller markets. Sacramento has a small corporate base, and while we can boast about large operations for Intel, NEC and a few other back office operations, (they don't translate into corporate support). Football is much easier for a smaller market to support because of the revenue sharing agreements in the NFL and the fact that much of the money is made based on your (media market size, at least locally for cable contract deals). Also you only have to sell out a stadium a few times each year. Something which would be no problem here.

Besides look how hard it is to build and Arena in this city. Do you honestly think they would ever build a baseball Park that would cost closer to 3/4 of a billion dollars???


Also if this city is foolish enough to let a team the caliber of the Kings leave, then we sure as heck don't deserve another team until we can figure out whether or not we're willing to support the team with first class facilities. (just my thoughts)

[squintstopher]

I agree. I also think that Major League Baseball seems to be successful in large blue-collar markets, like most of the cities mentioned above. Sacramento has some blue-collar families but it's not like some of those great-lake-area cities that are built on industry. Then again, I'm not an expert in demographics but I really have no desire to see MLB in Sac. The rivercats are perfect for Sacramento and it's more of my speed.

[GrowinUp]

Sacramento has a small corporate base, and while we can boast about large operations for Intel, NEC and a few other back office operations, (they don't translate into corporate support).

That's what I was wanting to hear. I just wanted to see if you were thinking the same way. No fortune 100 -- wait, no fortune 500 companies BASED here. I believe Sac has the fan base to sell ou the games but no corporate sponsorships. That's what the city needs to focus on, which it never seems to do. They need to find a way to woo more large corporations who are considering moving their headquarters to set up shop here. I know it's a tall order, but it kills us.

(is actually the 19th largest media market, not the 15th).

You are correct, I didnt have time last night to double-check my facts -- but still '19' is nothing to sneeze about.

[cascraperdude]

You guys are right about our lack of an F500 company. On the other hand, I don't think we need to focus on wooing an F500 here (they don't move usually). We need to have a business climate where an F500 can be born and grow--something like SureWest. "Young F500s" look for things like talent base, favorable tax stucture, cost/cost of living, resources, etc. Sac is lacking in some of those areas.

[ozone]

That's what I was wanting to hear. I just wanted to see if you were thinking the same way. No fortune 100 -- wait, no fortune 500 companies BASED here. I believe Sac has the fan base to sell ou the games but no corporate sponsorships. That's what the city needs to focus on, which it never seems to do. They need to find a way to woo more large corporations who are considering moving their headquarters to set up shop here. I know it's a tall order, but it kills us.

You are correct, I didnt have time last night to double-check my facts -- but still '19' is nothing to sneeze about.

Well I think you guys make a good point. Petco (not a f500) and Qualcomm Inc., are both located in San Diego -hence the name of their ballpark and football stadium. But Los Angeles has many f500 and can’t get a NFL team -why?

It’s an interesting point about were our city’s focus should be. We have had our identify so wrapped up in state government that we seemed to have neglected everything else including finance. We need balance. How could the city woo more large corporations? And at what price?

Back in the 1990’s, when Joe Serna was mayor, the City of Sacramento made the decision to actively pursue Packard Bell. Sacramento provided many incentives (money/tax breaks) to them. Sacramento did succeeded it getting the electronics company here by providing the political clout and financial means to land the deal and pushing the Army to get the property (old Sacramento Army Depot) cleaned-up and ready to be reused. But Packard Bell’s fortunes turned, and in 1999, they shut down their Sacramento operation. Meanwhile, Sacramentians had paid $132 million for “necessary improvements”, and loaned Packard Bell $26 million to lure the company. How badly do we need a major sports team? Is it worth it?

We have lower costs than the Bay Area or Los Angeles and that means a lot. But we are in competition with out-of-state cities. The state could do more but for obvious reasons legislators try to keep the companies in their constituent’s hometown. It seems they’d rather lose it to an out-of-state competitor than an in-state one.

Image is not everything but it’s not nothing. The ones making the decisions do not see us as a potential HQ city. We have a good chance of wooing a fortune 500 company from the Bay Area and LA. if we work at up-marketing our city. In the late 1990’s I saw all these ads in Bay Area biz mag/papers from out-of-state cities trying to woo companies. Never did I see ad from Sacramento. I don’t know how effective those ad were but since Sacramento is a lot closer I can image we would have just as good of chance if not better.

One more thought is that we just don’t provide the amenities that the management and CEO’s want in a city. We must really work on increasing the arts, education, etc.

[SacTownAndy]

Also if this city is foolish enough to let a team the caliber of the Kings leave, then we sure as heck don't deserve another team until we can figure out whether or not we're willing to support the team with first class facilities.


I couldn't have said it better myself.

[sugit]

Article on the casino's providing loan funding for the arena...could this one actaully have legs?

Riches turn area tribes into players
By Mary Lynne Vellinga -- Bee Staff Writer

Paula Lorenzo considers herself a big-time Kings fan, and she has the picture to prove it.

During a Kings game three years ago, she seized Bobby Jackson's head and kissed it after he fell back into her second-row seat. A photographer captured the moment, and the Kings reprinted the picture on tickets for an entire season. (haha, that was a great moment!)

Like many sports enthusiasts, Lorenzo worries that the Kings will leave town if the team doesn't get a new arena. Unlike most fans, however, she is in a position to do something about it.

Click to read the rest..
http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/13758089p-14600336c.html

[GrowinUp]

^^ I second that. But its almost like it all has to happen at once. Its almost like you have to have one to have the other. Obviously corporate moneys translates to tax revenues, which translates to more art & entertainment and all the other "amenities". Without those revenues you don't have the amenities. Without the amenities you dont have large corporations setting up shop here creating revenue. The easy answer is to start out slowly, market what you have, and work your way up. That is, after all, what getting the RiverCats was suppose to do. The late Mayor Serna wanted nothing less than major league here, if you recall.

Anywho, I think we agree, more could be done to market our city better -- to lure more of Corporate America to our doorsteps, to lure more amenities (like pro baseball or football perhaps?). Too bad about the Packard Bell demise. It was a step in the right direction. Then there was our own start-up "Foundation Health" and the NIMBY's of Gold River basically booted them out. The Money Store looked promising -- but no, not here, not Sacramento. It had to tank like everything else -- its like we're cursed or something.

Anyway, it just frustrates me.

[urban_encounter]

^^ I second that. But its almost like it all has to happen at once. Its almost like you have to have one to have the other. Obviously corporate moneys translates to tax revenues, which translates to more art & entertainment and all the other "amenities". Without those revenues you don't have the amenities. Without the amenities you dont have large corporations setting up shop here creating revenue. The easy answer is to start out slowly, market what you have, and work your way up. That is, after all, what getting the RiverCats was suppose to do. The late Mayor Serna wanted nothing less than major league here, if you recall.

Anywho, I think we agree, more could be done to market our city better -- to lure more of Corporate America to our doorsteps, to lure more amenities (like pro baseball or football perhaps?). Too bad about the Packard Bell demise. It was a step in the right direction. Then there was our own start-up "Foundation Health" and the NIMBY's of Gold River basically booted them out. The Money Store looked promising -- but no, not here, not Sacramento. It had to tank like everything else -- its like we're cursed or something.

Anyway, it just frustrates me.


I can agree with most of what you saying GrowinUp. I'm a big believer in investing in our entertainment and cultural amenities.

I would have no prolbem with football, but as I said I don't see baseball as being a logical fit for sacramento. I also (as I've stated before) want to see a fisrt class theater/performing arts center, an expanded Crocker Art Museum (which looks to be on hold indefinitely unless I'm mistaken), I want to see the intermodel station become reality. I am so sick of Sacramento talking ans talking about what it wants to become and never putting it's money where it's mouth is. I suspect that's why we don't see much corporate clout. This isn't a "can do city" so to speak. It's the Nimby capital of the U.S. everyone has been content with their suburban tract homes in Elk Grove and Roseville and content with the idea that a night out at the movies is their idea of culture.

It's pitiful when cities smaller than Sacramento are able to accomplish much more than we are capable of ever dreaming of.

Kansas City
Indianapolis
Charlottte

These cities build their culural an entertainment faiclities and are capable of luring coroporations.

Sacramento meanwhile talks about it.

I am encouraged about all of the private sector highrise residential growth for downtown. Maybe with the influx of people seeking a more cosmopolitan style of living Sacramento will finally wake up and pull it's head out of it's butt and take it's place as the center of a major metropolitan area.

[urban_encounter]

Anywho, I think we agree, more could be done to market our city better -- to lure more of Corporate America to our doorsteps, to lure more amenities (like pro baseball or football perhaps?). Too bad about the Packard Bell demise. It was a step in the right direction. Then there was our own start-up "Foundation Health" and the NIMBY's of Gold River basically booted them out. The Money Store looked promising -- but no, not here, not Sacramento. It had to tank like everything else -- its like we're cursed or something.

Anyway, it just frustrates me.


Here's a prime example of marketing the city. Sacramento chased the Stem Cell HQ's with free rent for a downtown office building. Why chase (what is basically a state agency) that doesn't really amount to squat?? Why didn't the city take that donated office space in One Capitol Mall, and offer it to a company willing to locate their corproate headquarters here?

[urban_encounter]

BTW on the subject of our local Tribes becoming involved in a solution, I think that's absolutely wonderful. This is the local financial clout in our area as the article alludes to. We may not have any large corporate HQs here. But we do have a number of local tribes swimming in $$$. If they can come up with a solution and the MaGoofs are serious absout making this they're home, then hopefully a deal can get done. But I still think the arena belongs DT. Look at other cities that have built their arenas downtown as opposed to those who have bolted for the suburbs.

Would we prefer this arena to be more like Conseco Filedhouse or the SBC?


Conseco is one of the best (if not the best) basketball arenas in the league and it's a downtown arena that works well.

(Of course i think the issue of a downtown arena here is dead and buried). We're going to be lucky to get the arena built in Natomas.

[joninsac]

Why didn't the city take that donated office space in One Capitol Mall, and offer it to a company willing to locate their corproate headquarters here?

The city tried that with Lot A awhile back. They offered the entire parcel for $1 to any corporation that was willing to move their corporate headquarters there. There were no takers. If that doesn't tell us something about whether or not we'll ever see a large corporate presence here, I don't know what will.

[urban_encounter]

If that doesn't tell us something about whether or not we'll ever see a large corporate presence here, I don't know what will.


That's pitiful.


(and hilarious)

:haha:

[joninsac]

^ and depressing, too. :(

[urban_encounter]

^ and depressing, too. :(


The only way for Sacramento to change that is to change the way of thinking for our local elected leaders. This isn't a small town anymore and unfortunately our coucil and board of supervisors continue to act as if it still is. (the change in attitude for residential highrises withstanding)


If I were mayor.............:D


I would work to have more bridges constructed across the Sacramento River, so as to connect what will become an obvious expansion of downtown Sacramento.


I would invest in cultural amenities (to do that the Mayor needs to sell the idea of a hotel tax or some other tax to invest in our amenities which will help to lure more jobs etc........)

a) Performing arts center
b) an arena in the Rail Yards
c) Invest in an immediate expansion of the Riverfront Promenade.

I would actively go courting existing companies and find out what it would take (tax break incentives etc) to lure them to Sacramento. Proximity to the Capitol might illicit State help.


Mayor Fargo is no leader.

[GrowinUp]

^ also, a nationally aired commercial ad, like San Diego has. I've never even heard of Kissiminee-St Cloud before -- now everyone has. Think about it. They use to have this neat little short film that you could buy at the Visitors Center in Old Town, exemplifying Sacramento. I remember picking it up and saying to them -- "Hey, why dont you distribute these videos to all the gift stores in Old Town, instead of hiding them here in this basement you call a Visitors Center?" They looked at me with a puzzled look, as if to say, "Gee, how come WE didn't think of that?" I dont think it ever happened though!

[snfenoc]

Anybody watching the Kings get their asses handed to them by the Hornets? :help:
85-60 with 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter. Way to represent guys!
Well, at least their defense ain't so bad. ;)

[enigma99a]

^ Yeah but they didn't fly out until today and got into there right before the game. That is why the Kings were pissed off yesterday, but hey, just one game.

[snfenoc]

^
"Just one game"

Yep, 81 more to lose - just kidding.

[enigma99a]

Well... I don't think they were expected to win today because of their plane troubles, but by 26 points?? :rolleyes:

[snfenoc]

I am listening to Grant Napier and the other guys on KHTK. They are saying the team (especially Mike Bibby) is just not very fast, and they may have trouble against quick players.
Wonderful! As long as the Kings do not play any team with athletic players, they should do fine.;)

Whatever, on to the next game.

[enigma99a]

It seems year after year, they struggle against atheltic teams....

[snfenoc]

Game 2: A loss 98-89

Well, at least they did not lose by 26 points.

They need to stop playing athletic teams. Oh wait, sports teams are all athletic - except for the Kings.

[tuy]

They were expected to lose the first three games. So looks like probably an 0-3 start.

I see the Kings winning between 40 - 45 games this season, but they need to get started.

[neuhickman79]

More bad news for the Kings:


Sponsors bounce the Kings
Several end ties to team, threatening key revenue.
By Clint Swett and Dale Kasler -- Bee Staff Writers
Published 2:15 am PST Saturday, November 5, 2005
Story appeared on Page A1 of The Bee
Southwest Airlines, a stalwart sponsor of the Sacramento Kings for more than a decade, is one of at least four business partners who have canceled deals with the team this season, potentially cutting into an important revenue stream.

The departures, occurring as the Kings start their 21st season in Sacramento, coincide with the team's struggles to put together a deal to replace aging Arco Arena.

It also may reflect the business community's difficulties in justifying huge expenditures on sports sponsorships that can run upward of $500,000 a year.

"We work hard and do everything we can to never lose a partner," said John Thomas, president of Maloof Sports and Entertainment, which owns the Kings. "But sometimes people choose to go in a different direction. That's just part of business."

He said Maloof Sports still doesn't know if sponsorship revenue this year will be higher or lower than last season, when it totaled an estimated $18.2 million.

"It's just too early to tell" because negotiations with a number of sponsors are still under way, Thomas said. Among those said to be still negotiating their renewals are the Sacramento Municipal Utility District and Cache Creek Casino. This week, the Kings dropped longtime sponsor Pepsi Bottling Group and are negotiating with Coca-Cola to become Arco Arena's soft-drink provider.

For their money, the team's "strategic alliance partners" typically get their names on arena signs, commercials on Kings radio and television broadcasts, space in the Kings' fan magazine, and other promotional tie-ins.

Sponsorships are particularly vital for a small-market team like the Kings, which are limited in how much they can earn from ticket sales and TV revenue.

Some former sponsors contacted by The Bee said their relationship with the team had become too expensive. Others, like Southwest, said they enjoyed their relationship with the Kings but decided to alter their marketing strategy.

Andrew Zimbalist, a sports economist at Massachusetts' Smith College, said sponsors may be edging away because of the Kings' recent playoff struggles, along with the controversy over construction of a new arena and speculation that the team might leave town.

Another factor: Corporations are becoming more discriminating about who they'll sponsor and how much they'll pay.

"It's been an ongoing trend toward sponsors demanding that sports properties demonstrate a return ... some sort of quantifiable, demonstrable return," said Larry DeGaris, director of the Center for Sports Sponsorship at Virginia's James Madison University.

Andy Allmann, Southwest's senior manager for sports sponsorships, said the airline's decision not to renew its Kings deal had nothing to do with unhappiness with the team. Instead, he said, Southwest was transferring its marketing dollars to pro sports teams in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, where the airline recently established service.

"We've had a fantastic relationship with the Kings," Allmann said. "They've always been a great company to work with. It wasn't an issue of price. We just felt we needed to use the resources in other parts of our system."

He wouldn't say how much Southwest had paid the Kings for its name and image on arena signs, TV ads and other forms of advertising.

Southwest still has sponsorships with 10 NBA teams, including the Golden State Warriors, plus a separate deal with the league. Solidifying its identification with the NBA, the airline on Thursday unveiled a Boeing 737 jet painted with a flashy basketball motif.

Other sponsors are sticking with the team, including McDonald's, Raley's, The Bee and Wells Fargo.

"It's a great networking tool for us," said Bob Poole, co-owner of Dome Printing, which is entering its fifth season as a sponsor.

The company's deal includes the use of its logo on some Kings' printed material, plus four seats at every game.

Poole said his company uses those seats to entertain business clients, and also invites them to private "chalk talks" put on by Kings coaches. His deal doesn't include signage or ads on Kings broadcasts. He declined to say how much Dome pays the Kings every season.

But others say their Kings sponsorships have become too pricey.

"We didn't feel the value was there any longer," said Bruce Cooper, president of Village RV in Roseville, which decided not to renew its $250,000 sponsorship this season. "There's a lot of ways to brand your company in this town and we didn't feel (a Kings partnership) was the best way."

Tim Burke, owner of Quest Technology, a Sacramento information technology firm, said he dropped his $250,000 annual sponsorship this season when he and the Kings couldn't agree on price and other details.

Quest, however, will continue to lease a luxury box at Arco for about $250,000 a year. "For customer appreciation and employee appreciation, the suite supplies what we need," he said.

It's not only the bigger companies that have canceled deals. Men's clothier Patrick James Inc. dropped its $30,000 annual sponsorship after two years because of cost, said Patrick James Mon Pere Sr., owner of the 16-store chain based in Fresno. "We enjoyed the alliance but candidly ... it was cost-prohibitive."

Such sentiments reflect a nationwide trend of businesses reconsidering their embrace of sports, said DeGaris of James Madison University.

"Sponsors are demanding that sports properties demonstrate a return," he said. "Plus there are a number of corporations that just get sticker shock. ... They just look at the price tag and say, 'Wow, that's a lot of money.'"

Such was the case with GenCorp Inc., which, though not a sponsor, had rented a luxury suite at Arco for 17 years, until this season.

"It was an expensive proposition, and they were raising their rates," said company spokeswoman Linda Cutler, who declined to say what GenCorp had been paying.

One expert contends that a decline in sponsorships isn't necessarily bad news for a team.

"Five to 10 years ago, the idea was to get as many corporate partners on board as possible," said Dennis Howard, a professor at the Warsaw Sports Marketing Center at the University of Oregon. In recent years, he said, many teams have cut back on the number of sponsorships but charge higher fees in exchange for more benefits, such as larger signage.

Still, Howard said, "I have no idea if that's happening with the Kings."

[Majin]

Damn its over.

[innov8]

Quest, however, will continue to lease a luxury box at Arco for about $250,000 a year. "For customer appreciation and employee appreciation, the suite supplies what we need," he said.
I]

I always wondered what a box might run me :eek:

[urban_encounter]

Damn its over.


Well Misery, your probably right about this. Instead of trying to craft a solution and find a way to get an Arena built, our city council has taken up debating the war in Iraq. Meanwhile the team under the control of the MaGoofs, is one step closer to moving back to Kansas City.

[joninsac]

If the Kings can't attract new sponsors to replace the ones who left, then it'll be a problem, but not until then.

[ozone]

What's with some you guys putting bible verses at the end of your posts? Quite frankly I think its rude. I don’t think we need your not so subtle form of evangelizing on a skyscraper forum.

Is it ever conceivable to you guys that some people might not ever believe the way you do and that they are quite happy about that?Your religious fundamentalist revolution in this country has succeeded. You win. But I still won’t believe in something I know in my heart to be false. Sorry I’m so blunt but I think if you are going to put that stuff out there you deserve it.

[snfenoc]

How about we comment on Kings/Arena news in this forum? OK?

[enigma99a]

What's with some you guys putting bible verses at the end of your posts? Quite frankly I think its rude. I don’t think we need your not so subtle form of evangelizing on a skyscraper forum.

Is it ever conceivable to you guys that some people might not ever believe the way you do and that they are quite happy about that?Your religious fundamentalist revolution in this country has succeeded. You win. But I still won’t believe in something I know in my heart to be false. Sorry I’m so blunt but I think if you are going to put that stuff out there you deserve it.

EDIT... Trying to be a little less harsh this time.

He should be able to do whatever he wants. I know you don't agree with it, but can't you just look over it?

[ltsmotorsport]

What's with some you guys putting bible verses at the end of your posts? Quite frankly I think its rude. I don’t think we need your not so subtle form of evangelizing on a skyscraper forum.

Is it ever conceivable to you guys that some people might not ever believe the way you do and that they are quite happy about that?Your religious fundamentalist revolution in this country has succeeded. You win. But I still won’t believe in something I know in my heart to be false. Sorry I’m so blunt but I think if you are going to put that stuff out there you deserve it.

We know you're the open Sac liberal Ozone, but as long as your signature isn't laced with profanity, it can be whatever the member wants. It may be a private forum, but people are still allowed to express what they believe in. Why is it so bad if it's from the bible?

*on the Kings: they sell out every game; they'll find new sponsers.

[urban_encounter]

What's with some you guys putting bible verses at the end of your posts? Quite frankly I think its rude. I don’t think we need your not so subtle form of evangelizing on a skyscraper forum.

Is it ever conceivable to you guys that some people might not ever believe the way you do and that they are quite happy about that?Your religious fundamentalist revolution in this country has succeeded. You win. But I still won’t believe in something I know in my heart to be false. Sorry I’m so blunt but I think if you are going to put that stuff out there you deserve it.


<Edited>

After a great deal of thought, Ozone, I've decided that removing the scripture passage simply because your offended would be wrong. Because while it may not resonate with you, maybe there's somebody who will be touched by it. If your truly offended by a message of peace as you claimed to be, then you probably need to look no further than a mirror to ask yourself why?

[neuhickman79]

Soooo...how bout them Kings?! :)

[snfenoc]

I think they are playing Phoenix tonight. Maybe they can break the 90 point mark.

[cascraperdude]

I wonder why the sponsors are dropping?

Is it because the Kings are performing poorly?

Or are the Maloofs negociating poorly to build yet one more case to leave the City. Remember, the Commissioner wants a team here, but if the case is built that the area doesn't want the Kings...

Ok, maybe :tinfoilhat:... still...

[squintstopher]

I have a bible verse because my faith is the most important thing in my life. Believe me when I say that I don't evangelize "down" to anyone. Christ's love is a gift that I could never earn or deserve and it's the one thing that keeps me going, and I want that for everyone.

[squintstopher]

Having or not having the kings around has no bearing on whether I'd live in Sacramento, and I wonder how widespread that feeling is. Because if that's the case for most people, I don't see a real, concrete reason for city council to spend their time and money on it. There are other things, such as Gold Rush Park, which would have a much greater impact on quality of life. Not that I don't love the Kings; I'd be sad to see them go, but how important is it really? Maybe I'm in the minority.

[What is a Rivercat?]

I'm becoming more inclined to let the Maloofs leave if they really want to. It'll be their bad in the end because sooner or later, SOMEONE will realize that a market of 2 million plus sits waiting for another pro franchise to come in.

[urban_encounter]

I'm becoming more inclined to let the Maloofs leave if they really want to. It'll be their bad in the end because sooner or later, SOMEONE will realize that a market of 2 million plus sits waiting for another pro franchise to come in.


If Sacramento loses the Kings, then what team would want to move into Arco? That place is a dump. Neither the city nor the county has the collective brain power to come up with a creative financing solution to construct an Arena (like San Antonio came up with). Funny that both Fresno and Stockton can build arenas, but this city has yet to construct one. (Both Arco I and II were privately financed). In a way I think having had privately financed facilities has spoiled Sacramento. Now the expectation is that it should always be privately financed. Sorry but that's not going to happen.

Secondly, the MaGoofs are just as clueless as the city and county leaders. They don't have the guts to say what they want and how much they're willing to pay. Sorry but the line that they'll pay their "fair share" doesn't work with me. They still owe the city $70 million dollars. Are we supposed to build them arena, give them control of naming rights and all concession revenue and all they chip in is $40 million dollars? No thanks.

[snfenoc]

I'm becoming more inclined to let the Maloofs leave if they really want to.

Be careful what you wish for. The Kings may leave and leave us with nothing for a long time. If the Maloofs exit our community due to a lack of fan and business support, how will we attract another professional sports team? The area has a lot to offer, population-wise, but I don't know if it has enough money to woo a team.

[sugit]

I think the Maloofs are genuine good guys, but they screwed up royally with this arena deal

They should have come out and said exactly what they would contribute. The should have said “this is how much are going to out into it” and the city would know exactly how much they need to come up with and if they feel the Kings are worth that price tag. Who knows, maybe they did and the city dropped the ball.

It seems like there was never a real starting point for any of the negotiations between the city and Maloofs.

People of Sacramento didn’t help the situation either with the absolutely no public money stuff .

In the end, the citizens, maloofs and city all have a part in this arena still in limbo

[cascraperdude]

I don't know if they're good guys or not, but I'm not sure they're the "brilliant businessmen" people think they are.

It's not been hard to get rich on casino money in Vegas in the last 15 years. This deal has not impressed me on their side at ALL.

[colemonkee]

I wonder why the sponsors are dropping?

Is it because the Kings are performing poorly?

Or are the Maloofs negociating poorly to build yet one more case to leave the City. Remember, the Commissioner wants a team here, but if the case is built that the area doesn't want the Kings...

Ok, maybe :tinfoilhat:... still...

It's most likely not an issue of the Kings performing poorly that would make Southwest leave. It's due more likely to the value they are getting out of their sponsorship vs. the money they are shelling out. I work in advertising, and last week we were going over the 2006 budgets for one of my clients who has naming rights to a stadium and stadium sponsorships in multiple markets. Those sponsorships are amazingly expensive, and there's little to no ROI to show on them except for the fact that their name is in front of "X" number of people each year. For Southwest, I'm sure it was a product of a marketing exec for Southwest going, "wait a minute, 98% of the Sacramento market is aware of the Southwest brand, and we're spending how much to remind them of that? I'd rather sponsor a stadium in Denver, which is a new market for us, and get much more traction out of that money."

It's most likely an issue of pure economics. You're going to start to see this around the country, btw. But the Kings should be able to pick up another sponsor that it makes more sense for.

[bennywah]

^
I agree, plus southwest just made expansions into some northeast markets and they want to get there brand out up there, if Sacramento is serious about its downtown becoming a destination spot, they need to get back to the table with the maloofs, and hammer something out now, rather than later, because in the end, when the maloofs threaten to leave, the city will then be forced into a deal which will cost them a lot more, the city should be proactive, and not reactive, and the benefits to having an arena downtown will defintely help with bringing people downtown for other events as well, besides the kings and monarchs playing, there will be concerts, events, high school, maybe college playoff games, if other cities can do it and be successful then sacto can do it too

[ltsmotorsport]

Be careful what you wish for. The Kings may leave and leave us with nothing for a long time. If the Maloofs exit our community due to a lack of fan and business support, how will we attract another professional sports team? The area has a lot to offer, population-wise, but I don't know if it has enough money to woo a team.
I've never seen a lack of fan support in Sacramento for the Kings.


And very well said, colmonkee.

[joninsac]

this should help -

118-117 KINGS BABY!

[sugit]

:rock:

[tuy]

so, they did not start the season 0-3. Great.

[joninsac]

^ they did last year, and still won 50 games. so there.

[snfenoc]

Nice Defense!

But a win is a win.

[tuy]

^^ They were expected to start 0-3 this year, so they pulled out an unexpected win. I think that they will win between 40 and 45 this year.

I have been a King's fan since the late 70's when they played in KC.

[joninsac]

I don't think they were expected to lose to the Hornets. And if Bibby's assist totals go up, they'll win 50 again.

[Schmoe]

Shades of legitimacy.

[ltsmotorsport]

:laugh:

But really, go Kings!

[ozone]

What's with some you guys putting bible verses at the end of your posts? Quite frankly I think its rude. I don’t think we need your not so subtle form of evangelizing on a skyscraper forum.

Is it ever conceivable to you guys that some people might not ever believe the way you do and that they are quite happy about that?Your religious fundamentalist revolution in this country has succeeded. You win. But I still won’t believe in something I know in my heart to be false. Sorry I’m so blunt but I think if you are going to put that stuff out there you deserve it.


<Edited>

After a great deal of thought, Ozone, I've decided that removing the scripture passage simply because your offended would be wrong. Because while it may not resonate with you, maybe there's somebody who will be touched by it. If your truly offended by a message of peace as you claimed to be, then you probably need to look no further than a mirror to ask yourself why?


^ I’m a little disappointed you. Pretty typical response I must say. I’m never offend by messages of peace- and there are lots of them. So your comments about looking in the mirror are pretty low. Anyway, I never expect a Christian/American to change their behavior or anything else because it offends another. Besides I’m not as offended as you might think really. I find it more annoying. Like a fruit fly buzzing around my head. Of course, I do things annoying all the time. Take my buzzing you about your bible verse inclusion as an example. To be honest- I don’t really care what another believes.

Now to the arena/Kings matter: With sponsors dropping like proverbial fruit flies --may be that downtown casino/hotel/arena idea doesn’t seem so far fetched after all?

[snfenoc]

From Ozone:
Of course, I do things annoying all the time.

No truer words have ever been said.

[ozone]

Oh god I’m surrounded.:no: Nov. 23rd can’t come some enough.

[ltsmotorsport]

I find it more annoying.

Well that doesn't offend people, you know, saying their religion is annoying. No. People appreciate that.:rolleyes:

I don't mind you as a forumer ozone, but you can't expect to post stuff like that and get a positive response back. And also realize that Sacramento still has a large christian population, so it won't quit "buzzing around your head". Honestly, I was hoping for better from you. You've had better arguments here before.

*end rant.

[ltsmotorsport]

But hey, at least the Kings won a close game. Wish I could've seen it down here.

[ozone]

I find it more annoying.

Well that doesn't offend people, you know, saying their religion is annoying. No. People appreciate that.:rolleyes:

I don't mind you as a forumer ozone, but you can't expect to post stuff like that and get a positive response back. And also realize that Sacramento still has a large christian population, so it won't quit "buzzing around your head". Honestly, I was hoping for better from you. You've had better arguments here before.

*end rant.


I’m so glad you “don’t mind me” -Itsmoterspot -how tolerant of you. I was merely pointing out that this is a skyscraper forum is it not? This is not a religion forum, it’s not a bible forum, it’s not a sex forum, it’s not a AAA forum. So yeah I do find it annoying when people do not have the courtesy to tame their zeal to convert. :koko: And I don’t care if this were Virginia Beach, VA. You can roll your eyes all you want but does it make sense? BTW I don’t like bumper sticker either. I don’t care who you supported in the 1998 election and you know I’d rather you be fishing too- instead being that #%@*&% driver in front of me on the CCF.
Sorry to disappoint you.

*end rant.

:offtopic: What was the topic again?

[urban_encounter]

In the spirit of forgiveness........

Go Kings!!

[ozone]

Maybe the real reason we don’t have a new arena is that the residents of the City of Sacramento really don’t care about it as much as the people in the suburbs do?

A little old from the SNR 9/04 but I doubt much has changed:
According to a recent poll, only 16 percent of 600 Sacramentans polled rank “building a new Sacramento Kings arena” as a high priority for local governments. Out of 15 issues to be ranked as either “high” or “low” priority, the arena came in dead last. By comparison, “providing police and fire services” was considered a high priority by the greatest majority: 92 percent of respondents; “improving public schools” was second with 89 percent. Next to the arena, the lowest priority was “planning for development in the North Natomas area,” which only 29 percent considered a high priority.

KTKZ POLL
What do you think about a new Sacramento Sports Arena?

21% -The Maloof's must pay 50% of the total costs for me to support.
 
8% -Sacto should do whatever it can to build a new arena downtown.
 
59% -I will never support a new sports arena at tax payers expense.
 
12% -I support a new arena built in Natomas, not downtown.
 


Now to less important matters:

First ltsmotorsport you know zero, nada, nothing about my life. Secondly, you have tried to make this personal. So far you have not argued the point but have instead engaged in childish retort. You should know by now that often times I’m half-way joking. But it seems that it is you and not I who is most offended. I do not want to mix skyscrapers and religion. This is weird. But then again I didn’t post bits of my religion’s “holy text” at the end of every post.

“i will remind you that it sounded as if you you were on the verge of tears, pointing out how offended you were and how rude you thought our messages were.” HUH? What I really said was: “Besides I’m not as offended as you might think really.” Besides how can you remind me of something that was in only in your head to begin with? [sniff]

A peace loving gem-“Get out and enjoy life, because you sound as if your one miserable and cranky individual” [sniff]

Other examples of christian charity- “Frankly I don't give a crap what you think or the level of your disappointment. The best thing you could have done was to keep you yap shut” [sniff]


"The Why of Fry”
Man- "Get your piping hot horse burgers horse fries, horse cakes and shakes. We got tongue, straight from the horse's mouth” -Horse Pepsi okay?

[sugit]

In a way I think having had privately financed facilities has spoiled Sacramento.

I think you hit it on the head there.

[cascraperdude]

^^^^^^^^
Actually, I don't think this problem is unique to Sactown. So many cities looking to build a facility right now are in the same boat. Nobody wants to pay. Geez, look at Miami, and this is a major winning team.

[Schmoe]

I've stayed quiet on this bullshit, but you guys need to shut the fuck up and quit this personal nonsense! Those who have contributed to this either as instigators or responders need to just drop it and let it be.

[urban_encounter]

Tuy :tup:


Nice touch!!

[urban_encounter]

^^^^^^^^
Geez, look at Miami, and this is a major winning team.


They could build a 5,000 seat arena in Miami and still have plenty of seats open.

[enigma99a]

http://www.sacmag.com/archive/July2004/publisher.shtm

:(

[ltsmotorsport]

Good article, and I would still hope that people still realize (yes, even Westfield) that 7th & K is still the best location in the region.

Remember this?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/ltsmotorsport/sac-arena-plan.gif

[brandon12]

Good article, and I would still hope that people still realize (yes, even Westfield) that 7th & K is still the best location in the region.

Remember this?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/ltsmotorsport/sac-arena-plan.gif

I agree 100%. Light rail, parking, existing retail/restaurants, freeway access, It's all there. Just expensive land, that's all.

If ever I were to agree with eminent domain, this would be the case...

[brandon12]

the problem is the eminent domain process would take too long (with law suits and posturing) and it would end up being 10 years before the arena were completed.

[enigma99a]

Well.. let's see. Westfield would probably cooperate. But ED would be needed for the offices on J as well as the SRO at 7th and L.

Let's get rolling on this. It's the best spot.