[crow]

Bellevue, Washington
i am trying to post a couple images of a pair of condo towers going up in Bellevue Washington, commencing next year.

Over 500 units, 42/43 stories tall mixed use development. 450 feet tall each.

project design by GBD Architects and Mulvanny G2
GBD has been developing the tower design schematics, and Mulvanny has been working on the Podium design schematics - together the architects are doing the project as a joint venture.

http://www.fotothing.com/Thecrow/

[SeattleHusky82]

http://www.fotothing.com/photos/e10/e10184fb09d0a774e8c15aefb60240a6.jpg

There you go.

I like it....kinda looks like Lincoln Square but not as wide. These should make a huge impact on the skyline.

[James Bond Agent 007]

I'm trying to figure out where this is.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Oh wait - isn't this where the Puget Power building is now?

[crow]

yes it is at the old PSE building at the corner of 4th street NE, and 106th street NE.

[bgwah]

Yay, finally a picture.

[mhays]

If that happens, one of these days I'm going to start actually liking Bellevue. The skyline is one benefit. Another is the dose of energy that 500 units and a whatever little retail would provide. Most of all, it would help tie neighborhoods together.

[James Bond Agent 007]

BTW crow, if you want to know how to post a picture, go here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?threadid=84068

[bgwah]

These would be the tallest all-residential towers in the entire Northwest, maybe even the West Coast (Don't know about California). Although the Koin Tower in Portland has some condos on top, doesn't it?

[JiminyCricket II]

^but that's not all-residential. good looking towers.

[SeattleHusky82]

This project is being developed by Gerding/Edlen from Portland who's worked on several Pearl District and SoWa projects. Hopefully they'll become active in the Puget Sound as well.

Crow, you seem to have a lot of info about this project, any word on the timetable?

[bgwah]

^but that's not all-residential. good looking towers.

Yeah I know, but I was thinking in terms of highest homes. :D

[crow]

it is a Gerding/Edlen project. The developer and architects are trying to find some value in a new market by bringing some of the lessons learned from SOWA, and the Brewery Blocks to the pedestrian in Bellevue. About 13000 sf of retail - hopefully dining.

The project will be in for design review at the end of this month, and it begins construction at the beginning of the year.

i think the seattle / bellevue market is pretty hot right now = hopefully Gerding/Edlen will be looking for other properties. i will try to get some other images to post.

[urbanlife]

holy sh*t those are tall, gonna miss the old PSE building, but oh well.

[JiminyCricket II]

^but that's not all-residential. good looking towers.

Yeah I know, but I was thinking in terms of highest homes. :D

Even still, these two towers would only be as tall as the homes in Licoln Square. LS is 450 feet too, isn't it?

[schoolyD]

holy sh*t those are tall, gonna miss the old PSE building, but oh well.

Why would you miss that absolutely heinous piece of hammered dogshit?

[bgwah]

^but that's not all-residential. good looking towers.

Yeah I know, but I was thinking in terms of highest homes. :D

Even still, these two towers would only be as tall as the homes in Licoln Square. LS is 450 feet too, isn't it?

But the Koin Tower in Portland is 500 feet and has penthouses, doesn't it?

[MarkDaMan]

http://www.glasssteelandstone.com/Images/US/OR/KOINCenter-001.jpg

509 feet - that's news to me...I didn't realize it was a 500 footer...

and yes, there are several multimillion $$$ penthouses there...everything above the first "taper" is condo...

[destroybananas]

That's it, I"m staying in Bellevue!

[crow]

i believe koin is only 440.

[horatio_the_hermit]

This has been on the drawing boared for years. No pics had been released for a really long time. Thank god. Those are some nice looking buildings. Height limit is all i could ask for. Look like a pair of West Ones. West one is the tallest residential in vancouver.

Ill enjoy watching that yellow pse building go down.

[destroybananas]

give it some time ;)

[urbanlife]

holy sh*t those are tall, gonna miss the old PSE building, but oh well.

Why would you miss that absolutely heinous piece of hammered dogshit?

that is your opinion.

[northface]

whats the pSE BUILDING? HOW TALL IS IT?

[mhays]

It's an opinion shared by the Encylopedia Brittanica. They in fact declared that the old PSE building looks like pounded dogshit. Well, that's close to "hammered", so aside from semantics...

[urbanlife]

It's an opinion shared by the Encylopedia Brittanica. They in fact declared that the old PSE building looks like pounded dogshit. Well, that's close to "hammered", so aside from semantics...

and the twin towers before 9/11 was looked at as the biggest mistake that destroyed the fabric of downtown NYC as well as the skyline, what's your point?

[bgwah]

whats the pSE BUILDING? HOW TALL IS IT?

It's some 3 or 4 story ugly 1960's yellow-colored building, I think.

[crow]

the pse is a low-rise early example of curtainwall modernism. it is a pretty standard example of a bauhaus type architecture that really has little if any merit as a historic structure for bellevue or elsewhere.

[SeattleHusky82]

Crow, do you have any more renderings at this time that you can show us? I can't wait to see this project start.

[crow]

there is an obvious delicacy with any twin tower proposal anywhere in the world after the attack on the World Trade Center on 9/11. It does not take much conjecture to realize that the attack was not the buildings, but on the institutions which they stood for. The economic and financial domination that was seen happening in places outside of NYC - some may argue in places the USA had no business particpating in. these buildings hopefully will be seen as more about sculpture and pride of place rather than economic domination of a skyline - instead they create elevated places of living giving breathtaking views of the surroundings.

[mhays]

9/11 was such a long time ago that it wouldn't occur to me that anyone would have an issue. And if they did, I'd ask them whether we should make sure the new buildings weren't silver also, and avoid square shapes. On the other hand, if multinationals start moving in and they created a restaurant called "Windows on Bellevue", then I'd start to wonder.

Urbanlife, by your logic any piece of crap building could be saved. In this case, it's not only ugly in my opinion, but it's also woefully inefficient land use. Also, to make it habitable, it would probably need a massive renovation and seismic upgrade that would cost more than the building is worth -- all for a building that at most is emblematic of a horrible period in architecture.

Yes, I understand the parallel between what I'm saying and what conventional wisdom said about old buildings in the 1960s.

[James Bond Agent 007]

OK peeps, let's not get into arguments about personal architectural tastes. It will go nowhere.

[urbanlife]

9/11 was such a long time ago that it wouldn't occur to me that anyone would have an issue. And if they did, I'd ask them whether we should make sure the new buildings weren't silver also, and avoid square shapes. On the other hand, if multinationals start moving in and they created a restaurant called "Windows on Bellevue", then I'd start to wonder.

Urbanlife, by your logic any piece of crap building could be saved. In this case, it's not only ugly in my opinion, but it's also woefully inefficient land use. Also, to make it habitable, it would probably need a massive renovation and seismic upgrade that would cost more than the building is worth -- all for a building that at most is emblematic of a horrible period in architecture.

Yes, I understand the parallel between what I'm saying and what conventional wisdom said about old buildings in the 1960s.

I never said anything about saving the building, just that I liked it and I will hate to see it go, that's all. Not like there is anything historical about Bellevue anyway.

[crow]

here is another image i found for the belleve towers - a bit abstract. i will get more images to post. sorry for my ignorance on embeding images. i have been using imagethrust and then copy paste the link. ?

http://i21.imagethrust.com/i/39819/perspective20220environ20.jpg (http://www.imagethrust.com)

[SeattleHusky82]

Love the new rendering (although I'm not sold on the yellow stripe on the side of the tower) keep them coming!

[horatio_the_hermit]

Ok kids, you judge.

PSE Building goes down
http://www.wa-trust.org/mostendangered/2005%20Photos/Puget%20Power1.JPG


and Bellevue towers go up

http://i21.imagethrust.com/i/39819/perspective20220environ20.jpg


In my opinion, thats a pretty sweet deal.

[urbanlife]

I could of seen that PSE building originally used as a city hall, simple, government looking, and very 60s.

[destroybananas]

^haha more like a hospital....

Love those towers!

[SeattleHusky82]

I found this article online. Looks like the PSE building is down to its last few weeks.

http://northwest.construction.com/2005/09/01/NC_09_01_2005_p01-08.asp

Portand - Gerding Edlen Development Company, Lennar Communities and venture partners ScanlanKemperBard Com- panies plan to start construction this fall on highrise condo tower in Bellevue. The project is still in the design development phase, but demolition of the Puget Sound Energy Building, which currently occupies the site, is scheduled to take place in October. Hoffman Construction is the general contractor.

Bellevue Towers, will be located at 106th Avenue Northeast and Northeast Fourth Street, two blocks from Bellevue Square and Bellevue Downtown Park. Ground- breaking is slated for the first quarter of 2006 and the project is expected to be completed in 2008. The owners are touting the building as the highest condo highrise in the region. As with all Gerding Edlen projects, this one will be LEED certified.

Designed by Portland-based GBD Architects and Mulvanny G2 Architecture Bellevue, the project is currently designed with either one or two condominium towers sitting above a retail base, topping out at 42 stories. Preliminary designs call for up to 486 residential units, although Gerding Edlen has said it's still evaluating several options. The building design calls for clear insulated spandrel glass, and metal and stone accents.

The company is also looking at properties in downtown Seattle and Kirkland, according to Scott Eaton, a principal of the firm.

[horatio_the_hermit]

I was thinking that the bellevue towers could become the icon of Bellevue. Seattle has the space needle, Bank of America Tower, andd Smith Tower but bellevue, even with the new and tall One lincoln tower, has nothing really iconic. Two 450 foot twin towers in the heart of downtown could be just what Bellevue needs to develop an identifiable downtown.

[crow]

they could be. at times things like that just happen, but two towers of similar profile and such height could be seen as iconic on the skyline.

[schoolyD]

holy sh*t those are tall, gonna miss the old PSE building, but oh well.

Why would you miss that absolutely heinous piece of hammered dogshit?

that is your opinion.

I am sure it is a rare opinion and your's (as usual) is more in line with the mainstream.

[destroybananas]

I can't wait for that peace of crap to be torned down, I'm sure it's not earthquake proof anyway...

[urbanlife]

holy sh*t those are tall, gonna miss the old PSE building, but oh well.

Why would you miss that absolutely heinous piece of hammered dogshit?

that is your opinion.

I am sure it is a rare opinion and your's (as usual) is more in line with the mainstream.

mainstream isn't always the best thing either. There is alot to be said about our histroy regardless of if it is "good or bad" architecture. Which brings up the question, if this building served little purpose when it was constructs, poor planning, poor future thinking, lack of the ability to inspire. What makes these two buildings so special. are they going to be something that sticks in your imagination 20 years from today or will they just be tall?

[destroybananas]

^sorry in this case mainstream is the best thing.

[urbanlife]

so these towers will benefit the city how?

[JiminyCricket II]

so these towers will benefit the city how?

hmm, let's see, how about bringing hundreds of residents to live downtown?

How is the PSE building benefitting Bellevue? Office space for 30 people? Or the hammered dogshit look?

I'll take the 2 towers, not only will it add nicely to the skyline, it will add liveliness to a city that desperately needs it, something the PSE building could never do.

[urbanlife]

bringing residents downtown is a good thing for any city, but other than that. I see very little in differences between the two styles of architecture. Both seem to be a bit short sighted and money driven. In other words, nothing is special about this building that I can see.

[crow]

i think that comment urban in itself is short sighted. bellevue suffers what most of the country lacks and that is downtown vitality. the towers will not only bring vitality to the streets, but will also celebrate a lifestyle that the PSE never embodied. it sat on a mound of grass like a temple, while these buildings activate the street edges and the skyline. i think urban is just fueled by conflict, rather than conviction or a bigger concept of a city.

[SeattleHusky82]

bringing residents downtown is a good thing for any city, but other than that. I see very little in differences between the two styles of architecture. Both seem to be a bit short sighted and money driven. In other words, nothing is special about this building that I can see.

I thought you were a fan of the architecture of the PSE building and now you call it short sighted and money driven? It sounds like you just hate bellevue in general and want to criticize the city at every chance you get. You do know that the Bellevue Towers is being developed by gerdling/edlen and being designed by GBD, both from your beloved city of roses.

[urbanlife]

thanks crow, you answered my question quite nicely.

loving a style of architecture and it being short sighted and money driven are two different things. The World Trade Center put a huge divide in downtown NYC, but I loved the towers and the plaza that created this mistake. Or Boston's City Hall is a masterpiece, but short sightenly destroyed a beautiful old neighborhood.

While I do still hold a strong hatred for Bellevue, something I will always have towards the city, I do like GBD's work, they have done good in Portland, and this tower will be no different.

In all honesty I just wanted to hear why another tower is so important for Bellevue. So many towers there are inward focused and disconnected from what is around it. There is so much more to architecture than how high can you build it.

[JiminyCricket II]

^Tell us then, what don't you like about the towers? You can't just say that they wont add anything to the city, especially considering what the towers will be replacing.


In all honesty I just wanted to hear why another tower is so important for Bellevue.

Because this is skyscraperpage.

[seapug]

a lot of the newer towers are helping to connect the city, and make it more appealing to walk through the city instead of just fly through it on your car. i do think they should make a lot of bellevue's streets more narrow though, and plant some trees, that'd help the most as far as making it appealing to walk through

[urbanlife]

I don't hate towers, there is just more to a vibrant city than towers. I don't like towers that just have a main entrance and a garage entrance and no first floor retail and restuarants that open up to the sidewalk rather than just the interior of the building.

I enjoy seeing a tower proposed when the developer has taken into account the effect it has on its surrounding areas and how it will connect to the rest of the blocks and buildings around them.

Just putting a building up for the sake of it, seems to be half assed, just like sprawl because there is open land.

I have to go, so I will talk more about this later.

[destroybananas]

^clearly you don't understand how things work. without towers, regardless of their street level amenities, there will not be people in the vicinity to encourage retail/restaurant growth. so all towers are a positive in a growing "vibrant" environment. Bellevue is taking a different approach than other cities. I think it's pretty narrow-minded to think everyone should take the same steps as other cities and homogenize cities around the country with the same look and feel.

[crow]

homogenize the skyline, or lifestyle? the fact is the majority of the cities are playing catch-up. we are not talking about gentrification, but bringing people and living back into the city. Bellevue is a classic example - it almost looks like a mini Dallas. nothing but mirrored office buildings, and cars zooming around. there is NO ONE walking around. a city that invests in bringing urban living to its core creates a city that is 24 hours and ultimately through diversity discourages sprawl. Bellevue is an edge city that merits an identity of it's own. i miss the homogeny comment??

[schoolyD]

so these towers will benefit the city how?

Oh and I suppose the added residents and the increased property taxes and potential ability to walk to work have no benefits ... your point is dying faster than a suffocated bunny

[destroybananas]

homogenize the skyline, or lifestyle? the fact is the majority of the cities are playing catch-up. we are not talking about gentrification, but bringing people and living back into the city. Bellevue is a classic example - it almost looks like a mini Dallas. nothing but mirrored office buildings, and cars zooming around. there is NO ONE walking around. a city that invests in bringing urban living to its core creates a city that is 24 hours and ultimately through diversity discourages sprawl. Bellevue is an edge city that merits an identity of it's own. i miss the homogeny comment??

yeah and you're full of it too. how often do you walk around bellevue or drive around bellevue for that matter. I'm sensing a little envy that Bellevue will one day be much better than Portland ;):haha:

[destroybananas]

homogenize the skyline, or lifestyle? the fact is the majority of the cities are playing catch-up. we are not talking about gentrification, but bringing people and living back into the city. Bellevue is a classic example - it almost looks like a mini Dallas. nothing but mirrored office buildings, and cars zooming around. there is NO ONE walking around. a city that invests in bringing urban living to its core creates a city that is 24 hours and ultimately through diversity discourages sprawl. Bellevue is an edge city that merits an identity of it's own. i miss the homogeny comment??

All the forumers from Portland seem to think if it's not a "portland" like development than it wont work. :haha: BTW glass mirror buldings are much more attractive. And Bellevue's skyline is going to be much more attractive than Portland's in a few years ;) oh I can't wait... hehe

Of course it may look lilke a mini dallas now, but don't forget that it's a suburb currently going through a large transformation. Not too long ago Portland looked like a mini- L.A. All cities have to start in one way or another. You can't just puff the majic dragon and blow out a whole new, already built city. Everything will be connected together in the end.

btw, what I meant by the homogeny comment is that it seems like every city is trying to copy one another. And in the end they will all look similar to one another in terms of housing development around the downtown areas. I'm just glad Bellevue is copying Vancouver only with more variety of buildings.

[destroybananas]

so these towers will benefit the city how?

Oh and I suppose the added residents and the increased property taxes and potential ability to walk to work have no benefits ... your point is dying faster than a suffocated bunny

I agree. what urbanlife is saying doesn't even make any sense. Bellevue is adding residents by adding them into towers. BIG towers ;) that will be soon home to as many residents as downtown Portland if not more ;)

[MarkDaMan]

Not too long ago Portland looked like a mini- L.A. All cities have to start in one way or another.

what a stupid thing to say...Phoenix looks like a small LA, Portland has never had the sprawl, freeways, or smog to look like a mini LA. If you are trying to make a point, at least say things that aren't so damned stupid that I fall over backwards out of my chair laughing after reading it.

Bellevue is adding residents by adding them into towers. BIG towers that will be soon home to as many residents as downtown Portland if not more


I've always enjoyed reading your rants because you get upset and type out some of the most idiocratic posts I've ever read on these forums...Thanks for the chuckles this morning!:haha:

Bellevue might have 10 towers in the pipeline for the next few years. Portland has over 30 NEW residential towers in it's core that are either under construction or will be under construction by Spring, not to mention the several more to be announced. It would be much more appropriate to compare whats happening in Bellevue and Vancouver, WA. Unless you are daft, and some of your previous posts have me wondering, you should be able to recognize that.:no:

[crow]

trying to roll with the punches here - i am not suggesting portland is a model or a template to be exported, but that some early infrastructure that portland did have benefited the pedestrian. now more than not, portland is looked at as a good example of "pedestrian" scale and architecture to help repair bad, poor, crappy (insert adjective) infrastructure planning. sorry but bellevue for the pedestrian sucks, and i think we are all saying the same thing. these developments will only help bellevue - no one is suggesting to make bellevue something it is not, but rather enhance the city.

[destroybananas]

Not too long ago Portland looked like a mini- L.A. All cities have to start in one way or another.

what a stupid thing to say...Phoenix looks like a small LA, Portland has never had the sprawl, freeways, or smog to look like a mini LA. If you are trying to make a point, at least say things that aren't so damned stupid that I fall over backwards out of my chair laughing after reading it.

Bellevue is adding residents by adding them into towers. BIG towers that will be soon home to as many residents as downtown Portland if not more


I've always enjoyed reading your rants because you get upset and type out some of the most idiocratic posts I've ever read on these forums...Thanks for the chuckles this morning!:haha:

Bellevue might have 10 towers in the pipeline for the next few years. Portland has over 30 NEW residential towers in it's core that are either under construction or will be under construction by Spring, not to mention the several more to be announced. It would be much more appropriate to compare whats happening in Bellevue and Vancouver, WA. Unless you are daft, and some of your previous posts have me wondering, you should be able to recognize that.:no:

oh right, vancouver WA, because it looks so much like Bellevue lol. it got on your nerves that I would make such as stupid comment about Portland didn't it? ;) I had to sacrafice myself and go down to that level of argument to proove a point. btw, there are more than 10 and if you really use your head, that's quite a few for a small city ;) What you know of downtow Bellevue right now is going to be gone. the plans call for a mini-downtown vancouver essentially with townhomes in some of those developments.

one more time. Bellevue is a SUBURB going through a tranformation to encourage downtown housing in which it will consist of mostly big towers because of it's lack of downtown space. hence the tall towers ;) It is in the beginning of it's transformation into a city, no longer just a suburb along the 405. You guys act like you're jealous because wittle bellevue is getting taller high-rises than Portland so you look for every little detail that it might have wrong to knock it down ;) It's ok, if that's the case, look at yourselfs, you're comparing yourselfs to a suburb of Seattle :hilarious

btw, you're welcome about the chuckles, thought that the least I could do is return the favor from what I've seen in the past from portland forumers.:eat:

[destroybananas]

trying to roll with the punches here - i am not suggesting portland is a model or a template to be exported, but that some early infrastructure that portland did have benefited the pedestrian. now more than not, portland is looked at as a good example of "pedestrian" scale and architecture to help repair bad, poor, crappy (insert adjective) infrastructure planning. sorry but bellevue for the pedestrian sucks, and i think we are all saying the same thing. these developments will only help bellevue - no one is suggesting to make bellevue something it is not, but rather enhance the city.

Thank you. finally signs of a brain.:yes:

[crow]

yeah - thanks that really means alot to me.

[destroybananas]

I'm sure, since you seem to be alone in that one down there in whoreland, I mean portland ;) I'm sorry, on this forum, I must not perform logical phallacies.

[MarkDaMan]

oh right, vancouver WA, because it looks so much like Bellevue lol. it got on your nerves that I would make such as stupid comment about Portland didn't it? I had to sacrafice myself and go down to that level of argument to proove a point.

So you say...

I suggested Vancouver because it is much like Bellevue in that it is trying to re-engineer it's downtown to become more pedestrian friendly and livable. Because of PDX, Vancouver wont ever have soaring 500' towers but it is trying to be more than Portland's bedroom community. I think you misunderstand me, I'm not against Bellevue, in fact, I'm impressed by a lot of what they are doing I just think you threw out some really bogus arguments.

You guys act like you're jealous because wittle bellevue is getting taller high-rises than Portland so you look for every little detail that it might have wrong to knook it down

Tall building don't make a neighborhood. There is more streetlife on trendy third and Hawthorne than there ever is in the core. Niether of those neighborhoods have buildings taller than three stories but their street life is so ecletic and well, alive.

I'm glad Portland is focusing in on the quality at the street instead of just the skyline from a distance. I'd much rather have 25- 250'-350' buildings rather than 5- 500' buildings. The 500 footers would look nice but they don't add much to the street if there is nothing else to compliment them. I'd hate to see Bellevue blow its load on a couple tall towers and sit like that for another 5 or 10 years as the housing market cools nationally.

[destroybananas]

^yes I agree with you, but you have to remember that tall buildings can work as a key ingredient for streetlife.

lol and about blowing the load, we're saving that for another few years. I doubt the housing market will cool down anytime soon in Portland and Seattle metro.

[urbanlife]

homogenize the skyline, or lifestyle? the fact is the majority of the cities are playing catch-up. we are not talking about gentrification, but bringing people and living back into the city. Bellevue is a classic example - it almost looks like a mini Dallas. nothing but mirrored office buildings, and cars zooming around. there is NO ONE walking around. a city that invests in bringing urban living to its core creates a city that is 24 hours and ultimately through diversity discourages sprawl. Bellevue is an edge city that merits an identity of it's own. i miss the homogeny comment??

yeah and you're full of it too. how often do you walk around bellevue or drive around bellevue for that matter. I'm sensing a little envy that Bellevue will one day be much better than Portland ;):haha:

:hilarious oh wow, I think I might of pulled something on that comment. The closest Bellevue will ever get to Portland will be the Lloyd District and they are more than welcome to rip off that area.

[JiminyCricket II]

Bellevue will *never* be as good as Portland.

Also, these two towers(the ones we are supposed to be talking about) will be infinitely better for Bellevue that the PSE building could ever be.

[urbanlife]

^yes I agree with you, but you have to remember that tall buildings can work as a key ingredient for streetlife.

lol and about blowing the load, we're saving that for another few years. I doubt the housing market will cool down anytime soon in Portland and Seattle metro.

I can see something like the Brewery Blocks or the Burnside Project being what acts as a key ingredient more so that a tall building.

[destroybananas]

homogenize the skyline, or lifestyle? the fact is the majority of the cities are playing catch-up. we are not talking about gentrification, but bringing people and living back into the city. Bellevue is a classic example - it almost looks like a mini Dallas. nothing but mirrored office buildings, and cars zooming around. there is NO ONE walking around. a city that invests in bringing urban living to its core creates a city that is 24 hours and ultimately through diversity discourages sprawl. Bellevue is an edge city that merits an identity of it's own. i miss the homogeny comment??

yeah and you're full of it too. how often do you walk around bellevue or drive around bellevue for that matter. I'm sensing a little envy that Bellevue will one day be much better than Portland ;):haha:

:hilarious oh wow, I think I might of pulled something on that comment. The closest Bellevue will ever get to Portland will be the Lloyd District and they are more than welcome to rip off that area.

yeah it's not much ;) that's all Bellevue has to worry about ;)

[destroybananas]

Bellevue will *never* be as good as Portland.

Also, these two towers(the ones we are supposed to be talking about) will be infinitely better for Bellevue that the PSE building could ever be.

never say never young man ;) not everyone thinks Portland is as good as you think.

[PDXPaul]

Bellevue will have to go a long long long way before it meets up with Portland

[urbanlife]

Who doesn't like Portland?

[seapug]

i don't like portland, i spent a weekend there, and every one i talked to was dumb and mean. the only nice people were a guy that worked at a record store and a couple of drunk guys on the other side of the river. yeah it was really pretty, but i'd take seattle any day or even bellevue. i'd say the one edge portland has over seattle is downtown greenspace, but seattle's changing that. i know that as far as sustainability portland is way ahead of bellevue. i just like the attitude better. oh and if you look at all the stuff they're building in bellevue, it'll only be about 3-4 years till bellevue has more buildings over 400' then portland. so the skyline will be taller as a whole but not as thick

[SeattleHusky82]

Who doesn't like Portland?

Portland is a great city but sometimes I feel like it gets too much credit on this board. Sure it has a great transit system, impeccable urban design, and a lot of nice downtown parks, but I'd still take Seattle or Vancouver over Portland anyday. I go to Portland about twice a year and the city I always leave feeling that the city is missing something. Seattle and Vancouver feel much more like big cosmopolitan cities while Portland has a "small town" feel to it.

Anyways, back to the subject of this thread... Crow, were you able to find any more renderings??

[PDXPaul]

Portland lacks energy, or that's the biggest difference I feel here vs there. Just my op.

[destroybananas]

^same here. I think Portland is a beautiful city with great a transit system, and downtow parks, but just like everyone else here has said, it lacks energy and doesn't really feel like a city yet. It's more like a mayberry ;) j/k anyway, my opinion.

[MarkDaMan]

Funny, what you guys say Portland is missing is the same thing that brought me here. I can't get enough of the small feeling despite the fact we have 2 million+ people in our region now. I love that the people are more about substance than flash. The city is beautiful, no Portlander is going to argue with you about that, but it is the progressiveness and funkiness that endears people to this place, and that can't be understood in one weekend visit.

Almost every Sunday I do a morning drive listening to Sunday Jazz on KLite. So many more times than not I discover little street steaming with life...I had no idea Mississippi Ave had such a raging scene, or that Multnomah Village had so many small mom and pop shops. Hawthorne and Trendy Third get a lot of publicity, but it's the nickel arcade on Belmont or an Indy Film in the Hollywood that really endear me to my home...and that's it...I feel comfortable here, at home, and it makes me love this city more that I can actually feel safe like I did when I was a kid. There is the feeling that our biggest problems are going to be the critical mass bikers peddling their way through Friday evening traffic, my road torn up so the local elementary school can build a bioswale to collect storm water, or that one of our many festivals is going to take up some prime park space I was hoping to play Frisbee in.

If you guys think congestion, noise, strangers, and sprawl make a city, well, Portland will always welcome you with open arms when you wake up.

[sequoias]

I like the twin towers, hope they get built. :)

[destroybananas]

Funny, what you guys say Portland is missing is the same thing that brought me here. I can't get enough of the small feeling despite the fact we have 2 million+ people in our region now. I love that the people are more about substance than flash. The city is beautiful, no Portlander is going to argue with you about that, but it is the progressiveness and funkiness that endears people to this place, and that can't be understood in one weekend visit.

Almost every Sunday I do a morning drive listening to Sunday Jazz on KLite. So many more times than not I discover little street steaming with life...I had no idea Mississippi Ave had such a raging scene, or that Multnomah Village had so many small mom and pop shops. Hawthorne and Trendy Third get a lot of publicity, but it's the nickel arcade on Belmont or an Indy Film in the Hollywood that really endear me to my home...and that's it...I feel comfortable here, at home, and it makes me love this city more that I can actually feel safe like I did when I was a kid. There is the feeling that our biggest problems are going to be the critical mass bikers peddling their way through Friday evening traffic, my road torn up so the local elementary school can build a bioswale to collect storm water, or that one of our many festivals is going to take up some prime park space I was hoping to play Frisbee in.

If you guys think congestion, noise, strangers, and sprawl make a city, well, Portland will always welcome you with open arms when you wake up.

I've visited enough to know ;) my friend use to live there. It's just not our type of city. Sometimes traffic congestion adds energy, weird and maybe dumb I know, but it's true. It's all the action that makes me love Seattle more than Portland. Sometimes more people is awesome, you meet new ones every day. It's very fullfilling to me.

thanks for the open-arms, but....no thanks. ;) And believe or not, I can carry on a conversation with more people here than I was ever able to when I visited portland. And btw, you have to be awake if you live in Seattle otherwise life will pass you by :) Portland puts me to sleep. no offense.

[DowntownBoy]

Portland has traffic and congestion.... and plenty of it.

I like Portland, always have. It does have a lot of great local shops, restraunts, and venues that you can't find anywhere else.

Powell's is awesome!

[northface]

isnt this about 2 towers...i believe there are already hundreds of threads about portland. lol

[MarkDaMan]

Sometimes more people is awesome, you meet new ones every day. It's very fullfilling to me.

Downtown Portland attracts over a hundred thousand people a day to it. I think of myself as pretty social, but even I don't know that many people. Just like in Seattle, I can sit in a coffee shop here and I guarantee you I won't know 90% of the people in it, even if it is my regular shop. I also have across the board conversations with different people when I daily take the MAX to and from work. What I tried to stress above is that Portland IS a big city but has kept the perception that it is still a well managed town. The reason why it feels small is that our local governments have done a good job of managing and planning the feel of our city, keeping it inviting to young families and creative entrepreneurs.

Portland puts me to sleep. no offense.

blah...Get your lazy ass out on a hike to a waterfall, bike down Burnside, walk around one of our funky little streets, ride the MAX downtown, for God sakes, take a swim in the Columbia, that should jolt you awake.

Where people get confused is that Portland isn't a CORPORATE town. Since it's very humble beginning Portland has always been blue collar. It was a lumber and shipping town before it became the Silicon Forrest attracting more middle class, blue collar jobs. Portland has made blue collar sheik but still true to its origins. We are becoming a world class city based on our sustainability, quality in locally produced food and work, a leader in urban design, and a European style city working within the American model. It's not for everyone but it is flattering that so many other American cities are trying to emulate our perceived success.


Portland lacks energy, or that's the biggest difference I feel here vs there. Just my op.

isnt this about 2 towers...i believe there are already hundreds of threads about portland. lol

Sorry northface, didn't mean to hijack the thread

[destroybananas]

^I already do that here at discovery park, Mt Si. Urban hiking around the hills of donwtown or cap hill ;) Green lake, Alki Beach, Volunteer park. Myrtle Edwards park with all the views ;)

And if I want a quick jolt I can jump into lake wa which is right down the lane from where I live. Or rent a kayak down the street and kayak along lake wa, or lake union. Or, I can go to the mercer slough here in Bellevue which is sort of like the central park of Bellevue

BTW I'm glad Seattle is a corporate town or there wouldn't be any jobs like in Portland, and if any they're crappy jobs that don't pay anything. sorry, will take corporate any time. Not all corporations are corrupt. I don't know about Portland being a leader in Urban design, but I know it's high up there, but whatever.

[PDXPaul]

Another observation it's no the congestion that makes seattle busier, because Portland has pretty shitty rush hour traffic nowadays, is it me or did it get way worse in the last 5 years. Seems like it. But a clear difference I noticed was the speed of traffic in Seattle. It's more like california than the northwest, coming into Seattle on I5 I'm always driving 75 or 80 and the right hand traffic is going at least 70. In Portland it'd be 10mph less. Just the overall amount of traffic on the roads on Seattle is quite a bit heavier but I rarely think 'man I shouldn't be driving 80 here the cops might get me' because everyone's driving that fast and even if the cops wanted to get me I'd like to see them try in heavy traffic like that. Portland it's like... traffics not so heavy, everyone's driving slower so it looks like I'm driving faster... I should slow down.

[destroybananas]

Oh and I can go to Vancouver in 2 hours if I want or take the victoria clipper to go to Victoria, also, the san juans, the olympic penninsula to the rain forest, true rain forest ;)

And go jet skiing on our friend's boat too in the mornings when there is hardly anyone on the lake. :) I forgot to mention that.

Oh yeah, and if I get bored of lake wa I can go to lake sammamish which has warmer waters overall and do the same.

[MarkDaMan]

I don't know about Portland being a leader in Urban design

Oh is that so...than why have there been so many articles about Belltown trying to copy the Pearl's success with the streetcar, new lofts and condos, and new restaurants and stores to achieve "the liveliness of our Pearl neighborhood"? If you think you have heard enough of the Pearl, wait for the national press on SoWa in a few more years. Also, please give me another city than that you think is the American model for urban design, or sustainable design for that matter?

BTW I'm glad Seattle is a corporate town or there wouldn't be any jobs like in Portland, and if any they're crappy jobs that don't pay anything.

HUGE misperception on your part, and many others. I came to Portland at 20, no job and no degree, PDX's unemployment rate was 8.5% and I landed an awesome job that pays extremely well with all the benefits to boot. More than I ever found in Phoenix. There are plenty of high paying jobs here, and our minimum wage is the highest in the nation, only behind Washington, so even if you did get stuck at the bottom, your still earning $2.35/hour more than the person working minimum wage in 40 other states...

I'm not attacking Seattle, and as I've said before. I think Seattle will be the major economy driver of the Northwest and Portland will be the national leader on livability. The two cities compliment each other, and the region, very well, more so than say, Phoenix and Tucson, LA and San Diego, New York and Jersey City...

[schoolyD]

[/QUOTE]

:hilarious oh wow, I think I might of pulled something on that comment. The closest Bellevue will ever get to Portland will be the Lloyd District and they are more than welcome to rip off that area. [/QUOTE]

Yes, and the closest Portland will come to approaching Seattle as a job center with economic vitality is Vancouver, WA

[MarkDaMan]

Another observation it's no the congestion that makes seattle busier, because Portland has pretty shitty rush hour traffic nowadays, is it me or did it get way worse in the last 5 years. Seems like it. But a clear difference I noticed was the speed of traffic in Seattle. It's more like california than the northwest, coming into Seattle on I5 I'm always driving 75 or 80 and the right hand traffic is going at least 70. In Portland it'd be 10mph less. Just the overall amount of traffic on the roads on Seattle is quite a bit heavier but I rarely think 'man I shouldn't be driving 80 here the cops might get me' because everyone's driving that fast and even if the cops wanted to get me I'd like to see them try in heavy traffic like that. Portland it's like... traffics not so heavy, everyone's driving slower so it looks like I'm driving faster... I should slow down.

I tried 70 on the 84 and about flipped my truck. All the freeways surrounding Portland are cut around mountains so if you go too fast you end up killing the people in the car next to you, if not yourself first. The 5 has the Terwilliger curves (most accident prone stretch of 5 in the Northwest), 26 climbs 500 feet in a mile weaving through forest, the Banfield is an old glacier runoff ravine, and the 205 turns into ice as it approaches the Columbia and is hit with the Gorge winds...that why I looooove our mass transit because all of the freeways have excellent transportation alternatives.

Oh and I can go to Vancouver in 2 hours if I want or take the victoria clipper to go to Victoria, also, the san juans, the olympic penninsula to the rain forest, true rain forest

And go jet skiing on our friend's boat too in the mornings when there is hardly anyone on the lake. I forgot to mention that.

Oh yeah, and if I get bored of lake wa I can go to lake sammamish which has warmer waters overall and do the same.

okay, are we now going to start listing all the recreational activities we can do in each of our respected cities....I'M NOT TRASHING SEATTLE, but if Portland is putting you asleep, and I think you are being a bit overly critical with that comment, I'll give you a few suggestions to liven up your experience here...

[destroybananas]

^lol

[schoolyD]

Who doesn't like Portland?

I really do not like it - lack of vibrancy, combined with a lot of unkept folks, druggies and an industrial looking riverfront makes it feel more like east Vancouver

[destroybananas]

I tried 70 on the 84 and about flipped my truck. All the freeways surrounding Portland are cut around mountains so if you go too fast you end up killing the people in the car next to you, if not yourself first. The 5 has the Terwilliger curves (most accident prone stretch of 5 in the Northwest), 26 climbs 500 feet in a mile weaving through forest, the Banfield is an old glacier runoff ravine, and the 205 turns into ice as it approaches the Columbia and is hit with the Gorge winds...that why I looooove our mass transit because all of the freeways have excellent transportation alternatives.



okay, are we now going to start listing all the recreational activities we can do in each of our respected cities....I'M NOT TRASHING SEATTLE, but if Portland is putting you asleep, and I think you are being a bit overly critical with that comment, I'll give you a few suggestions to liven up your experience here...

And portland is considered as a leader in urban design? Look at those "freeways".

[MarkDaMan]

^the freeways, and major roadways, were built in the 50's and 60's many of them on former wagon trails and Native American paths. Long before Portland was aware of urban planning. However, had the full freeway plan been completed, and there have been maps posted here that you can see, there would have been a grid of freeways. Portlanders decided that wasn't what they wanted and the MAX line was built, and in time extended instead of new freeways. It was the MAX line that eventually led to the term "urban development" in America and restored Portland's downtown while a majority of this countries downtown's were falling into decay...

I really do not like it - lack of vibrancy, combined with a lot of unkept folks, druggies and an industrial looking riverfront makes it feel more like east Vancouver

at least you have stopped making dastardly claims about our airport.

Instead of addressing your claims, why don't you show me a picture of industrial development, in our core, on our waterfront. In fact, show me any pic that shows we have more industrial development on our waterfront than Seattle. Show me the unkept folks and druggies that the capitol of Grunge doesn't have in numbers over us! How about the lack of vibrancy...I'd like to see a pic so that you can back up your words!

[InlandEmpire]

Those towers look great, and should add significantly to Bellevue's impressive skyline and quickly developing downtown area! How and why Portland was brought into this discussion is beyond me- the cities are NOT in the same class.... it is ridiculous to say the least! It would be like me comparing my Coeur d' Alene to Boise- yes, we're having more development in terms of tall buildings, but we are nowhere near the city Boise is. Back to the buildings though, I am a fan of all the glass! It will look great.

[destroybananas]

^just bringing out the true colors of the forumers from portland if you know what I mean.

[MarkDaMan]

seapug
Midrise

Registered: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 145
....

i don't like portland, i spent a weekend there, and every one i talked to was dumb and mean. the only nice people were a guy that worked at a record store and a couple of drunk guys on the other side of the river. yeah it was really pretty, but i'd take seattle any day or even bellevue. i'd say the one edge portland has over seattle is downtown greenspace, but seattle's changing that. i know that as far as sustainability portland is way ahead of bellevue. i just like the attitude better. oh and if you look at all the stuff they're building in bellevue, it'll only be about 3-4 years till bellevue has more buildings over 400' then portland. so the skyline will be taller as a whole but not as thick

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SeattleHusky82
Highrise

Registered: Oct 2003
Location:
Posts: 454


Quote by urbanlife
Who doesn't like Portland?


Portland is a great city but sometimes I feel like it gets too much credit on this board. Sure it has a great transit system, impeccable urban design, and a lot of nice downtown parks, but I'd still take Seattle or Vancouver over Portland anyday. I go to Portland about twice a year and the city I always leave feeling that the city is missing something. Seattle and Vancouver feel much more like big cosmopolitan cities while Portland has a "small town" feel to it.

Anyways, back to the subject of this thread... Crow, were you able to find any more renderings??

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PDXPaul
Future J.D.

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: UW Seattle
Posts: 852


Portland lacks energy, or that's the biggest difference I feel here vs there. Just my op.

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destroybananas
Supertall

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 4700


^same here. I think Portland is a beautiful city with great a transit system, and downtow parks, but just like everyone else here has said, it lacks energy and doesn't really feel like a city yet. It's more like a mayberry j/k anyway, my opinion.

This is actually what started the Portland conversation...and I'm not sure what you are trying to get at with the true colors comment bananas

[sequoias]

Please get back to the Bellevue towers posts. IF you want to argue about Portland, go create a new thread!

[horatio_the_hermit]

You guys have bickered a lot but two pages of bickering is unprecidented. Get back to the bleeding buildings.