[lubicon]

As much as I'd love to I've kind of made it my creed not to argue on those newspaper comment boards. The people on there are bordeline idiotic for the most part.

30 flights a day between YYC and YEG? That seems pretty steep even now.

Actually I wouldn't doubt those numbers are in the ballpark. Back in the day, Canadian (regional) used to run flights every hour over the day and then a few more in the evening. That's about 15 flights right there. Air Canada (Air BC) probably had slightly less - say 10. There's 25/day, not counting the smaller commuters and Westjet, which did enter the picture 14 years ago.

Even today there are 23 flights/day between WJ and AC.

that said, the commentor is an idiot.

[Bigtime]

You are probably right, I was forgetting about Candian being around.

[fusili]

Ditto to that, I don't even read the comments sections anymore.

Ditto. I was reading the headline article yesterday about Calgary becoming more multicultural and probably 80% of the comments had to be removed because they violated the Heralds comments policy. I cannot believe the amount of blatant racism that occurs there. I just have to remind myself that those comments represent a very small and vocal minority of Calgarians, otherwise I would just have to leave this city.

[The Fisher Account]

Where's the best place to park and take pictures of planes taking off and landing Bigtime?

Any chance of seeing the 747's during the day?

[Bigtime]

Where's the best place to park and take pictures of planes taking off and landing Bigtime?

Any chance of seeing the 747's during the day?

It really depends on what runways are in use. If runway 34 and 28 are being used I like the following places:

-official viewing area just off of McKnight, on the west side of runway 34
-By the Shell aerocentre, parking by the customs shack to the north of it
-On the east side a small parking lot by the old Calgary Flight Centre Hangars

For runway 28 I think there is still a little parking spot that you can access by the westjet building.

I don't get out near as much as I used too, someone like Bokimon on here may be able to supply some other good spots.

As for the 747's, catching them in the daylight is rare. I usually only see them if they are delayed and not departing at 1am or so like usual.

[Policy Wonk]

It was over forty for a time if you include the service offered by Quikair and Peace Air that served the Muni.

Hopefully such service can resume when the Muni is removed from the jurisdiction of Edmonton Airports and returned to the feds.

[Bigtime]

It was over forty for a time if you include the service offered by Quikair and Peace Air that served the Muni.

Hopefully such service can resume when the Muni is removed from the jurisdiction of Edmonton Airports and returns to federal jurisdiction.

Do you really think there is a chance of that happening PW? I thought the fate of the muni was all but sealed.

[Policy Wonk]

Sealed?

By a vague statement that something might be done at a future date yet to be determined - at least a decade or more away?

It isn't even clear it can be closed legally speaking,

[The Fisher Account]

It really depends on what runways are in use. If runway 34 and 28 are being used I like the following places:

-official viewing area just off of McKnight, on the west side of runway 34
-By the Shell aerocentre, parking by the customs shack to the north of it
-On the east side a small parking lot by the old Calgary Flight Centre Hangars

For runway 28 I think there is still a little parking spot that you can access by the westjet building.

I don't get out near as much as I used too, someone like Bokimon on here may be able to supply some other good spots.

As for the 747's, catching them in the daylight is rare. I usually only see them if they are delayed and not departing at 1am or so like usual.

Thanks!

[Bigtime]

Sealed?

By a vague statement that something might be done at a future date yet to be determined - at least a decade or more away?

It isn't even clear it can be closed legally speaking,

Interesting, to hear the YEG forumers talk about it on here one would think it is all but done.

Then again when I visit the forums at avcanada.ca the group on there is actively working to keep the muni open, if not expand the services.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Airports as creatures of the federal government are special beasts. At any time the federal cabinet can pass an order in council to split the Edmonton Airport Authority into two, with one having a mandate over the muni. Since the airport authorities need to be self sufficient, they would have to open it up for flights to earn cash. As Edmonton voters said they wanted the airport to remain open in a referendum, and council is defying that wish, while limiting the use of a strategic asset, and impeding C-130 maintenance contractors (that might be long gone however) the federal government might feel compelled to jump in. (but I doubt it would ever happen)

It becomes a bit murkier when the lease runs out in ~2040, but I do believe there is something akin to a fair dealing clause that protects airports even on leased land from being outright evicted.

[mooky]

Sadly all of this would be a moot point if the Leduc International Airport was 10 km's further north on Edmonton's south edge. The Muni would have probably organically become obsolete to all but small plane service if the International was more convenient.

Hindsight is 20/20 and Edmonton and the federal gov't when they decided the location failed big time to see the future impact of their decision.

[lubicon]

Sadly all of this would be a moot point if the Leduc International Airport was 10 km's further north on Edmonton's south edge. The Muni would have probably organically become obsolete to all but small plane service if the International was more convenient.

Hindsight is 20/20 and Edmonton and the federal gov't when they decided the location failed big time to see the future impact of their decision.

In all fairness, 10 km closer to DT Edmonton equates to less than 6 minutes in extra driving time. Not a whole lot.

[freeweed]

In all fairness, 10 km closer to DT Edmonton equates to less than 6 minutes in extra driving time. Not a whole lot.

On paper, sure, but having flown into both YYC and YEG many times, it sure does feel like it takes a lot longer to get anywhere from YEG.

Also, that's 10km of LRT track that could be saved if it ever happened. What's the cost per km of rail these days? Strikes me that the expense would weigh heavily in any decision to do something like that.

[bookermorgan]

Here are my spots...

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo196/dj_drakstar/untitled3.jpg

[Policy Wonk]

Interesting, to hear the YEG forumers talk about it on here one would think it is all but done.

Their just eager to get a wal-mart super centre in there to go with acres upon acres of overgrown weeds.

[MrBigStuff]

Actually I wouldn't doubt those numbers are in the ballpark. Back in the day, Canadian (regional) used to run flights every hour over the day and then a few more in the evening. That's about 15 flights right there. Air Canada (Air BC) probably had slightly less - say 10. There's 25/day, not counting the smaller commuters and Westjet, which did enter the picture 14 years ago.

Even today there are 23 flights/day between WJ and AC.

that said, the commentor is an idiot.

Is there any scheduled flights into YXD ( The Muni airport ) anymore, be it a smll carrier with small twin engined aircraft???
That would be the ultimate, as PWA had B737 service into there in the early 80's. That was neat flying into there and passing the Manulife tower, awesome sight!! :tup:

[MrBigStuff]

It really depends on what runways are in use. If runway 34 and 28 are being used I like the following places:

-official viewing area just off of McKnight, on the west side of runway 34
-By the Shell aerocentre, parking by the customs shack to the north of it
-On the east side a small parking lot by the old Calgary Flight Centre Hangars

For runway 28 I think there is still a little parking spot that you can access by the westjet building.

I don't get out near as much as I used too, someone like Bokimon on here may be able to supply some other good spots.

As for the 747's, catching them in the daylight is rare. I usually only see them if they are delayed and not departing at 1am or so like usual.

I have had occasion to watch the odd plane take off on 28 from where the air cargo building is located, but that was back in the 80's and 90's, I haven't been over there now for over 10 or 12 years, so I'm not sure if that's possible now. It's a good spot if you can still do that. :yes:

[jawagord]

Before the referendum the Muni was a little jewel of an airport, great for shuttling Calgary and Edmonton business travelers back and forth, unfortunately the referendum and 15 years of neglect have turned it into a lump of coal and it won't be coming back.

^ Airports as creatures of the federal government are special beasts. At any time the federal cabinet can pass an order in council to split the Edmonton Airport Authority into two, with one having a mandate over the muni. Since the airport authorities need to be self sufficient, they would have to open it up for flights to earn cash. As Edmonton voters said they wanted the airport to remain open in a referendum, and council is defying that wish, while limiting the use of a strategic asset, and impeding C-130 maintenance contractors (that might be long gone however) the federal government might feel compelled to jump in. (but I doubt it would ever happen)

It becomes a bit murkier when the lease runs out in ~2040, but I do believe there is something akin to a fair dealing clause that protects airports even on leased land from being outright evicted.

[tuffyy]

This comes from Montreal now, but you get the point.

Montreal Hub ---in a speech to the Canadian Club of Montreal Calin Rovinescu, President and CEO of Air Canada spoke out against Emirates Airlines plans for massive expansion in Canada. He said that their plans for Canada along with high government taxes and fees threaten Montreal's ability to become a major international hub. He said that while Trudeau Intl. Airport will never overtake Toronto's Pearson, it has the potential for more traffic. Last year, a total of 12.8 million passengers flew through the Montreal airport, including six million with Air Canada. Since 2004, Air Canada's traffic through the city has grown by 25 per cent, while its capacity has increased by more than 18 per cent. While the airport's growth largely hinges on the state of the economy, channeling connecting traffic will be the key driver of the airport's importance as a hub he said. That could be threatened if Dubai-based Emirate Airlines is able to "dump its excess capacity" into Canada and siphon passengers who make connections here. "The growth of airports such as Montreal that rely on connecting traffic would be stunted," he said. "Rather than hubs, they would shrink to stubs at the end of a spoke leading only to Dubai." The speech marked the second time in a week that Rovinescu has taken on the Middle Eastern airline for its expansion efforts in Canada. Emirate Airlines claimed that increasing its service to Canada would spark $480 million in economic activity and add 2,800 new jobs. Rovinescu called the numbers the "stuff of fairy tales" and "subterfuge". By diverting passengers through Dubai, Emirate Airlines would effectively hamper the ability of airlines to offer connecting service through their gateways, eventually limiting consumer options. "Potentially Montreal, not to mention all secondary airports that would have some direct service currently to Europe--those could potentially be at risk," he later told reporters. He said very few passengers will be flying to Canada from the United Arab Emirates. He also said he's "particularly exercised" over Emirate Airline's tactic of linking open skies debate to Canada's continued access to the Camp Mirage military base in the U.A.E., used for the mission in Afghanistan. Another impediment to Montreal's competitiveness as a hub is direct and indirect taxes, he added. To land an A320 in Montreal, Air Canada pays about twice what it costs the airline's U.S. peers to fly into major American airports. The result is higher ticket prices and a disadvantage for Canadian carriers. Rovinescu also said improving Montreal's standing as a hub also requires better transit connections to the downtown. He said all three levels of government need to commit to improving the transit connection in order for Montreal's airport to achieve its full potential.

[Riise]

Some positive hype about our latest non-stop international flight.

Direct Calgary-Tokyo Flight, A 'Very Big Positive.' Launches
Calgary Airport On Hunt For More Asian Destinations

March 28, 2010
Calgary Herald
Gwendolyn Richards

CALGARY - As the first direct Air Canada flight between Calgary and Tokyo took off Saturday, the Calgary Airport Authority said it's already looking at other Asian destinations for non-stop routes.

The inaugural Air Canada flight between Calgary and Japan's capital jetted off early Saturday afternoon, marking the first time in a decade that Alberta has been linked to Asia with a non-stop flight.

The airline has scheduled three flights a week between the two cities, but could make it a daily trip if there is enough demand.

Air Canada CEO Calin Rovinescu said the flights are already quite full, but the airline hopes more passengers will come from expanding the catchment area outside of Calgary to include traffic from Saskatchewan, Manitoba and parts of the United States.

[MrBigStuff]

Any idea on type of aircraft being used for this long haul to Tokyo??

[mersar]

Any idea on type of aircraft being used for this long haul to Tokyo??

767-300ER according to a quick check on AC's web site

[CalgaryLankan]

Antonov AN 225 Mriya - world's largest aircraft with 6-jet engines is arriving Edmonton tonight at 7.30 PM probably for a stopover. Too bad, they didn't use Calgary for this stopover.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ADB206F

[Bigtime]

Antonov AN 225 Mriya - world's largest aircraft with 6-jet engines is arriving Edmonton tonight at 7.30 PM probably for a stopover. Too bad, they didn't use Calgary for this stopover.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ADB206F

Son of a bitch! This is the second time the 225 has stopped over in YEG. They better get some good pics of it.

[CalgaryLankan]

Son of a bitch! This is the second time the 225 has stopped over in YEG. They better get some good pics of it.

Agree- only hope is the wind forecast for YEG gets worse and they will use YYC as alternate - BTW - latest updated arrival time is 4.31 PM as per flightaware.com

[Bigtime]

I flew back into Calgary yesterday afternoon from Victoria. Probably the worst turbulence I have ever experienced on descent over the mountains coming in.

Now keep in mind that I've logged over 800 hours in single engine aircraft, so when I say we experienced wing drops of 30 degrees, and easily moderate to heavy turbulence for a good 20 minutes I know what I'm talking about. Plus a few of those really good jolts that cause a lovely sound of crashing service carts, overhead baggage and other items smashing into walls or security latches. Not too mention everyones hair reaching for the ceiling!

Edit: For size reference this was in a Westjet 737-700.

[WeeinYYC]

The An-225 is picking up three helicopters according to my co-worker at WestJet.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Crazy Bigtime!

[halifaxboyns]

767-300ER according to a quick check on AC's web site

That's correct - although according to a couple friends of mine with AC - if they see the market for this route take off they are ready to put a 777 on it (be it the 200LR or 300ER).

Canadian used to do this route and it always did well since they had a DC-10 on it; so here's hoping. Plus if it does well; they've already talked about a couple spots in China - probably Beijing or Hong Kong I suspect.

[Bigtime]

YYC's options to the Orient will get even stronger when AC takes delivery of the 787, and if its performance numbers do match the estimates.

[tuffyy]

Son of a bitch! This is the second time the 225 has stopped over in YEG. They better get some good pics of it.

Actually its the third time first in 2007 for a tech/crew stop then in October for the same reason, this time its for helicopters from what everyone has been saying.

There have been nearly daily AN-124's lately for tech stops enroute to Haiti from Japan for the UN aswell according to some YEG folk I still speak with.

[dancinb]

To watch the Antonov An-225 being loaded with Canadian Helicopters cargo, click here (http://69.196.83.5/view/viewer_index.shtml?id=409).

Link is posted on EIA's live webcam page: http://flyeia.com/airport_guide/live_cam#.

[evolv]

That's correct - although according to a couple friends of mine with AC - if they see the market for this route take off they are ready to put a 777 on it (be it the 200LR or 300ER).

Canadian used to do this route and it always did well since they had a DC-10 on it; so here's hoping. Plus if it does well; they've already talked about a couple spots in China - probably Beijing or Hong Kong I suspect.

I'd imagine you'd see it go daily before they put a 777 on it. At least i would hope.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Makes sense to put more efficient aircraft on longer routes, moving 767s to service Europe. (if you can fill the extra economy seats at break even and keep the overall yield high in business, even if they have to charge less). Managing airlines makes for confusing economics!

[Bigtime]

It would be nice for the route to do well and warrant AC using a 777 on the flight. I've missed the 777's here in YYC since BA pulled them out and went with the 767.

[SubwayRev]

It would be nice for the route to do well and warrant AC using a 777 on the flight. I've missed the 777's here in YYC since BA pulled them out and went with the 767.

Yah, and I don't see them returning to 777 anytime soon either. I took BA to London in January, and the plane was less than half full both on the way there and the return flight. I don't remeber flying on a plane that empty actually.

Granted that was probably the slowest time of year for travel, right after Christmas, but wow was it empty.

[Bigtime]

That sucks about the BA flight being so empty, I have heard they are struggling with loads on the YYC-LHR route right now. I could see the 2x daily flights to Frankfurt on Lufthansa and Air Canada making London as a transfer point a hard sell.

I flew with them back in 2007 on the way to India, back then they were still operating the 772 and it was a very full flight.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Was 2007 before Edmonton's LHR flight? That might have added enough capacity to the Alberta market to cut down volumes through Calgary (plus economic downturn, more FRA capacity, and the flight to AMS, etc)

[SubwayRev]

That sucks about the BA flight being so empty, I have heard they are struggling with loads on the YYC-LHR route right now. I could see the 2x daily flights to Frankfurt on Lufthansa and Air Canada making London as a transfer point a hard sell.

I flew with them back in 2007 on the way to India, back then they were still operating the 772 and it was a very full flight.

A buddy of mine is coming in from London in June on BA. I'm curious to see what the flight loads will be like in the middle of summer.

[Bigtime]

^ Was 2007 before Edmonton's LHR flight? That might have added enough capacity to the Alberta market to cut down volumes through Calgary (plus economic downturn, more FRA capacity, and the flight to AMS, etc)

I believe this was before YEG's LHR flight. However I wonder how many passengers from YEG would use the flight? Since BA isn't in Star Alliance I don't think a lot of YEG bookings would utilize it. Perhaps people that fly AA would have stumbled across it?

Perhaps a lot of people have gotten wise to how miserable it can be to transfer through LHR (can't speak to the new terminal now, wasn't open when I transited through) compared to Amsterdam or Frankfurt. I know on my flight back from India we were stuck waiting at our remote stand for over an hour for buses to come and pick us up at LHR.

I've never had anything but easy connections through Frankfurt though.

[Ramsayfarian]

I flew back into Calgary yesterday afternoon from Victoria. Probably the worst turbulence I have ever experienced on descent over the mountains coming in.

Now keep in mind that I've logged over 800 hours in single engine aircraft, so when I say we experienced wing drops of 30 degrees, and easily moderate to heavy turbulence for a good 20 minutes I know what I'm talking about. Plus a few of those really good jolts that cause a lovely sound of crashing service carts, overhead baggage and other items smashing into walls or security latches. Not too mention everyones hair reaching for the ceiling!

Edit: For size reference this was in a Westjet 737-700.

Nasty. A few years ago, my sister was flying back from Mexico with her husband and two children. They hit a really nasty patch of turbulence, my nephew,who was 4 or 5 at the time, screams out, "We're all going to die!" then starts laughing his ass off.

[SubwayRev]

I believe this was before YEG's LHR flight. However I wonder how many passengers from YEG would use the flight? Since BA isn't in Star Alliance I don't think a lot of YEG bookings would utilize it. Perhaps people that fly AA would have stumbled across it?

Perhaps a lot of people have gotten wise to how miserable it can be to transfer through LHR (can't speak to the new terminal now, wasn't open when I transited through) compared to Amsterdam or Frankfurt. I know on my flight back from India we were stuck waiting at our remote stand for over an hour for buses to come and pick us up at LHR.

I've never had anything but easy connections through Frankfurt though.

Terminal 5 is a big improvement from my previous experiences at Heathrow, but still sort of a pain in the ass, and definately not as good as Frankfurt. There are a lot of amenities, (at wonderful London prices) which was good as I had 5 hours there both ways. However, we did have to bus out to the plane for our flights. Wait to board like normal, then take a ten minute bus ride out to your plane, and line up again.

Plus, even though you never leave a secure area, you must pass through security after getting off the plane, and go through draconian-US style security. Remove shoes, throw bottle of water from your previous flight out, etc.

[YYCguys]

Site preparation is about to get underway for the new Control Tower, which will be partly situated on a current Westjet parking lot. We just got word that Westjet Flight Crew parking will be transitioned over to the new P2 parkade at YYC until the Control Tower is completed and a new parking arrangement can be made. Currently, busses shuttle the crews between the Westjet Campus and the airport, however, with the closure next year of McCall Way, it will be impossible to continue this service, so parking at the terminal will be really convenient!

[Bigtime]

That is exciting news! Have any renders of the new tower been released yet?

[lubicon]

Site preparation is about to get underway for the new Control Tower, which will be partly situated on a current Westjet parking lot. We just got word that Westjet Flight Crew parking will be transitioned over to the new P2 parkade at YYC until the Control Tower is completed and a new parking arrangement can be made. Currently, busses shuttle the crews between the Westjet Campus and the airport, however, with the closure next year of McCall Way, it will be impossible to continue this service, so parking at the terminal will be really convenient!

Interesting. I'll have to ask my buddy how it's working next time I see him. P2 isn't exactly next to the Westjet coucourse so it will be a bit of a walk for the crews and their bags. Vehicle security will also be a concern for him I'm sure.

[Bigtime]

I thought the master plan had called for McCall way to go underground to access the airport terminal. Maybe I am remembering wrong?

Perhaps Westjet can work out a system with the CAA to allow the shuttle buses to run on the airport grounds proper? Shouldn't require too much work asides from training the drivers to operate on the radio and have set paths to follow so ATC can work with it. It would be no different than the hundreds of passenger buses you see driving around the aprons of airports like Frankfurt and London.

[Yume-sama]

Air Canada has a full page ad in the paper today about flights to Tokyo. Go before April 30th from YYC and it's $259 ($518 round trip). Cheaper than flying to Toronto :P

[Bigtime]

I was just looking over the parallel runway and international concourse plan and see that they don't show McCall Way connecting underneath the new taxiways to the runway.

[fusili]

I was just looking over the parallel runway and international concourse plan and see that they don't show McCall Way connecting underneath the new taxiways to the runway.

Yeah, I always wondered what would happen to all the businesses on McCall Way. IIRC AirCanada and Westjet's offices are there. What are they supposed to do in that situation.

[Bigtime]

Yeah, I always wondered what would happen to all the businesses on McCall Way. IIRC AirCanada and Westjet's offices are there. What are they supposed to do in that situation.

Well most of the people that work at the Westjet campus don't need to go over to the terminal (except the flight crews). I would assume it is much the same with the folks at the Air Canada hangar.

Most of the other business off of McCall Way are the cargo related companies, that have airside access on the back of their buildings to the airport grounds proper. So business as usual for them.

[fusili]

Well most of the people that work at the Westjet campus don't need to go over to the terminal (except the flight crews). I would assume it is much the same with the folks at the Air Canada hangar.

Most of the other business off of McCall Way are the cargo related companies, that have airside access on the back of their buildings to the airport grounds proper. So business as usual for them.

Yeah, I know most of the cargo companies (Fed Ex etc) have their own aprons and conduct most of their operations from their apron, it is just the flight crews that need to go to and from the terminal on a fairly regular basis. I think your suggestion to allow a shuttle to run on the runway row (is that the correct term to use here) with proper training is probably the best solution. I can only imagine how inconvenient it will be for flight crews to take Airport trail to Deerfoot to McKnight to McCall way to go what would only be a kilometre or so. Seems ridiculous.

[Bigtime]

I think your suggestion to allow a shuttle to run on the runway row (is that the correct term to use here) with proper training is probably the best solution. I can only imagine how inconvenient it will be for flight crews to take Airport trail to Deerfoot to McKnight to McCall way to go what would only be a kilometre or so. Seems ridiculous.

They would run on the taxiways, only crossing runways if necessary and with ATC approval prior to that. However from the Westjet hangar apron to the terminal there is no need to cross any runways, it is all taxiways to the apron from there.

[Bigtime]

Here is a quick sketch I did of the possible bus routing from the Westjet campus up to their pier at the terminal:

Option 1: All airside access for the buses:

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3931/yycbus.png

Option 2: Streetside from the Westjet campus, and then passing through the secure gate on 21st NE to access airside:

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2056/yycbusi.png

[MonctonGoldenFlames]

Maybe I am remembering wrong?

i believe the proper term is 'misremembered'

[YYCguys]

Flight crews still have to pass from the public side to the airside via a bypass corrider next to Concourse D security, so busses won't be able to drop crews off airside.

[KrisYYC]

I'm curious to know how people that work in the Hangars, Cargo facitilies, GRound Handling GSE buildings, CARA etc. are going to get to work with McCall way closing?

It's a lot more than Westjet Flight crews needing to get in there.

[fusili]

I'm curious to know how people that work in the Hangars, Cargo facitilies, GRound Handling GSE buildings, CARA etc. are going to get to work with McCall way closing?

It's a lot more than Westjet Flight crews needing to get in there.

McCall way is only closing North of 78th Avenue (IIRC), so people will have access to those areas from McKnight, just not direct access to the airport itself.

[magnetite]

Being a flight simulation fan I was going to ask whether the new runway will fitted to support a CAT II or III ILS system? I checked and the current runways support a CAT I ILS approach. Some other big airports in Canada currently use CAT III approaches such as Vancouver.

[b31den]

I believe this was before YEG's LHR flight. However I wonder how many passengers from YEG would use the flight? Since BA isn't in Star Alliance I don't think a lot of YEG bookings would utilize it. Perhaps people that fly AA would have stumbled across it?

Perhaps a lot of people have gotten wise to how miserable it can be to transfer through LHR (can't speak to the new terminal now, wasn't open when I transited through) compared to Amsterdam or Frankfurt. I know on my flight back from India we were stuck waiting at our remote stand for over an hour for buses to come and pick us up at LHR.

I've never had anything but easy connections through Frankfurt though.

Whenever I go to Europe I always fly Calgary-Frankfurt-CityX, way better than flying Calgary-Toronto-CityX. The Toronto flight adds a lot of time because of its southerly location compared to central Europe, and the annoying customs setup you have to go through on the way back.

In europe you almost never go through customs (except passport control) until your final destination. Our customs agents are also too thorough with Canadian citizens when they re-enter the country. I get asked more questions by them than when I enter a foreign country. We should also get express lines for citizens like the EU has.

The only problems I have with Frankfurt are that my bags are almost always lost and flights are often delayed or cancelled due to blizzards. Two out of three trips last winter were delayed due to blizzards (had to stay overnight once), and at least one of my bags was lost everytime.

[Bigtime]

In europe you almost never go through customs (except passport control) until your final destination. Our customs agents are also too thorough with Canadian citizens when they re-enter the country. I get asked more questions by them than when I enter a foreign country. We should also get express lines for citizens like the EU has.

The only problems I have with Frankfurt are that my bags are almost always lost and flights are often delayed or cancelled due to blizzards. Two out of three trips last winter were delayed due to blizzards (had to stay overnight once), and at least one of my bags was lost everytime.

Customs/Passport control in Frankfurt is great. Just think of how many international flights are arriving there on any given hour versus YYC and usually I wait longer in line coming back into YYC than at Frankfurt! (with a comparable number of customs agents working)

I've never had any problems with bags or blizzards at Frankfurt yet. I was just there in January after all the snow hit Germany also, they seemed to handle the situation very well.

I guess you must have hit a very unfortunate string of bad luck!

[Bigtime]

Being a flight simulation fan I was going to ask whether the new runway will fitted to support a CAT II or III ILS system? I checked and the current runways support a CAT I ILS approach. Some other big airports in Canada currently use CAT III approaches such as Vancouver.

Good question, I'll ask one of my ATC contacts over at another forum if they have heard anything. They are already getting a team together to start working on new arrival and departure procedures for when the runway goes operational.

[freeweed]

Noticed a big sign on Airport Trail as you approach the airport, announcing the closure of Barlow on April 3, 2011.

Is the tunnel still dead in the water?

[mersar]

Tunnel is completely dead with no chance of revival in my books. Good to hear they've put signs up, give everyone plenty of time to get used to the fact it will be closed. And they've also delayed it a couple weeks, initially it had been early or mid March 2011 for closing.

[freeweed]

Man, I'm SO happy to not live in the NE if that's the case. Is all access through CHB then? Or can Airport Tr be extended eastwards?

[mersar]

Man, I'm SO happy to not live in the NE if that's the case. Is all access through CHB then? Or can Airport Tr be extended eastwards?

The tunnel was what was needed to extend Airport Trail eastwards from where it ends at Barlow on the north side of the airport. Essentially all access will be via Country Hills if you're in the NE unless you wanted to go all the way to Deerfoot via McKnight then north to Airport Trail

[Riise]

We should also get express lines for citizens like the EU has.

That would be really nice. I'm envious of my sister as when we travel to the EU together she always gets to skip the massive non-EU passport holders queue while the rest of my family waits for what seems like an eternity. The upside is that she usually has collected all of our luggage by the time we pass through.

I'm curious as to why Calgary doesn't have the domestic queues, has it never been thought about or not justified?


Tunnel is completely dead with no chance of revival in my books.

The City may have really dropped the ball with this project and could lead to increased feelings of neglect by residents of the NE. It wasn't a case of the City intentionally ignoring the needs of the NE but rather forgetting to consider them. Maybe this could/should be turned into an election issue and spark some interest in the NE about municipal politics.

[MalcolmTucker]

I could see the tunnel being a great rallying cry for an otherwise progressive transit candidate to build roads bonnafides - especially an outsider re: "you had an option sir / you didn't get it done".

The tunnel is needed - hopefully if the city finds money by January it can be rolled in.

[fusili]

The City may have really dropped the ball with this project and could lead to increased feelings of neglect by residents of the NE. It wasn't a case of the City intentionally ignoring the needs of the NE but rather forgetting to consider them. Maybe this could/should be turned into an election issue and spark some interest in the NE about municipal politics.

I got my money on Naheed Nenshi running for mayor and doing exactly this. I would bet he would delay some projects in order to get the Airport Tunnel. I would bet most NE residents would want the Airport Tunnel more than Martindale station.

[SubwayRev]

I'm curious as to why Calgary doesn't have the domestic queues, has it never been thought about or not justified?

They do have domestic lines...all of them! I would assume that the vast majority of people passing through the lines at YYC are Canadian, so there isn't any need for that. I'm don't have any data on that, but based on my experience, there usually aren't many foreigners in line at Customs at YYC.

[You Need A Thneed]

I got my money on Naheed Nenshi running for mayor and doing exactly this. I would bet he would delay some projects in order to get the Airport Tunnel. I would bet most NE residents would want the Airport Tunnel more than Martindale station.

Martindale Station is going to be well underway (my guess is 50% complete) by the time the election happens. Plus, the cost of Martindale station wouldn't exactly going to cover the cost of the tunnel.

I'd certainly give up the station though if it did mean getting the tunnel, but that's not a possibility at this point.

I can definitely see the tunnel becoming a election issue though, I'll be surprised if it doesn't.

If the tunnel doesn't get built, the city better start socking money away right now to upgrade Country Hills Blvd (east of Deerfoot at least) into a freeway in the future. That'll be a shame if it's built like it's planned and has a fairly good community feel around the CHB/60th Street intersection.

[MalcolmTucker]

I got my money on Naheed Nenshi running for mayor and doing exactly this. I would bet he would delay some projects in order to get the Airport Tunnel. I would bet most NE residents would want the Airport Tunnel more than Martindale station.

It isn't an either or, just borrow the money for now and then figure out how to pay for it later. If there is no budget room then, or you want to have a cake and eat it too, you can always monetize the asset.

[Aegis]

Okay, let's get back down to earth here.

As much as everyone on this board probably would love to see the Airport Tunnel completed for its cool-ness factor, and there are sound economic reasons to build it now as opposed to later (only if it is assumed to be build later), I don't think we can say this is an "urgent build at any cost as quick as possible" project.

I'd much rather see the SE LRT built than a tunnel which currently goes to nowhere.

[SubwayRev]

Okay, let's get back down to earth here.

As much as everyone on this board probably would love to see the Airport Tunnel completed for its cool-ness factor, and there are sound economic reasons to build it now as opposed to later (only if it is assumed to be build later), I don't think we can say this is an "urgent build at any cost as quick as possible" project.

I'd much rather see the SE LRT built than a tunnel which currently goes to nowhere.

I have to agree with you. The tunnel would save a couple of minutes for a few people, but most people would be coming from Deerfoot.

[Riise]

Okay, let's get back down to earth here.

As much as everyone on this board probably would love to see the Airport Tunnel completed for its cool-ness factor, and there are sound economic reasons to build it now as opposed to later (only if it is assumed to be build later), I don't think we can say this is an "urgent build at any cost as quick as possible" project.

If you properly consider the economic and logistical reasons for building it now then yes, it is an urgent build it now. Also, it is not build it at any cost but rather build it at its lowest cost but find any means to fund it. It is not simply a matter that more people would use the SE LRT than this tunnel if they were built tomorrow, it is balancing the short-term needs with long-terms needs.

[MalcolmTucker]

Yeah, there is huge value in preventing path dependency, even having a tunnel that just 'short turned' into Metis Trail for the first 10 years of operation would be worth it, to preserve the future opportunity for the link all the way to the Ring Road. Plus, the Airport Authority is willing to put in some of the money now - in effect to the city that is found money.

[Bigtime]

Here are the number of "movements" that occured at YYC in 2009. Unlike passenger numbers movements record ALL aircraft that were utilizing YYC, like medivacs, cargo, charter, private, and general aviation.

233,145 total movements for a -5.4% drop from 2008.

Here is how we stack up versus other airports in Canada:

1. YYZ 407,724 -5.0% -Toronto
2. YVR 313,984 -7.1%
3. YYC 233,145 -5.4%
4. YUL 211,999 -5.9%
5. YHU 199,045 5.7%
6. YDT 184,052 -7.8%
7. YOW 171,957 1.1%
8. YYJ 166,615 -4.3%
9. YXU 159,013 -3.4%
10. YQM 158,456 20.2%
11. YKZ 154,702 -5.7%
12. YBW 143,523 -14.1% This is Springbank airport
13. YWG 134,242 -6.0%
14. YQB 128,890 2.7%
15. YEG 126,775 -4.9%

Look at the top 5, we are the only airport in there without a parallel runway. Definitely needed.

The full report can be found here: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/51-209-x/2010001/t002-eng.htm

[CalgaryLankan]

Wee posted a picture of JAL 747 came during wee hours last week. Also Southern Air 747-300 was there. Too bad ... most of these big birds are not coming during day time.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wee_in_yyc/4511493058/

[bestnickever]

Calgary Airport Authority talking about the new expansion and runway.

"This is a massive contractual and statistical effort," Atkinson said. "It's like launching a supertanker, and might well be the largest construction project in the history of Calgary."

The new $ 1.3-billion concourse will serve primarily international flights. The 1.3-million-square-foot facility will incorporate cogeneration to reduce carbon dioxide levels, geothermal wells for cooling and heating and the ability to harvest rain water.

Harvesting rain water....very interesting.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/Calgary+airport+plans+gate+longest+runway+Canada/2913474/story.html

[outoftheice]

Hopefully this means that we're a step closer to seeing some renderings of the terminal expansion. I know that the airport authority is in the process of relocating the regional part of the 'A' wing to allow for construction to happen on the site where it currently sits... I look forward to seeing construction start!!

[Bigtime]

Why oh why couldn't that volcanic ash cloud keep me stranded here in Maui? Last day before flying home tonight...boourns!

[CalgaryLankan]

Potential Space Shuttle re-entry over Southern Alberta on Monday morning

The explanation below is from Don Hladiuk at RASC Calgary Centre.

At present, the shuttle is scheduled to de-orbit on revolution 222.
Landing time n Florida is scheduled for approx. 6:48 MDT. Time is still tentative.
Normally, the shuttle would appear over southern Alberta about 15 minutes before landing (i.e. 6:33 MDT).
This would give us in southern Alberta a very good shot at seeing this rare re-entry event.
But the sun will rise at about 6:33 am so the sky will be very bright and it will not be easy to see the shuttle in the sky.
If the shuttle re-entered on Sunday as originally planned, it would have been over Calgary about 15-20 minutes before sunrise and it would have been spectacular!
If the re-entry does occur on Monday, and if you are situated at a very quiet location (away from traffic noise, etc), one should hear a faint sonic boom about 4 minutes after the shuttle passes over head.
Stuff that could mess up our viewing plans:
1) Southern Alberta is cloudy
2) Weather in Florida is iffy and NASA decides to delay one orbit - this would shift the landing track to the SW over the US.
3) Weather is bad in Florida and NASA delays the landing one day - we would have to evaluate the new landing time and ground track to announce on Tuesday
4) Weather is really bad in Florida and the shuttle lands in California - we don't see a thing.
I plan to be mobile on Monday morning so if I have to dash to locate clear skies - I will try my best to do so and keep everyone up to date on CBC.
So cross your fingers for clear skies on Monday (both in Florida and Southern Alberta) and perhaps we will get to see this re-entry.

[The Chemist]

Potential Space Shuttle re-entry over Southern Alberta on Monday morning

The explanation below is from Don Hladiuk at RASC Calgary Centre.

At present, the shuttle is scheduled to de-orbit on revolution 222.
Landing time n Florida is scheduled for approx. 6:48 MDT. Time is still tentative.
Normally, the shuttle would appear over southern Alberta about 15 minutes before landing (i.e. 6:33 MDT).
This would give us in southern Alberta a very good shot at seeing this rare re-entry event.
But the sun will rise at about 6:33 am so the sky will be very bright and it will not be easy to see the shuttle in the sky.
If the shuttle re-entered on Sunday as originally planned, it would have been over Calgary about 15-20 minutes before sunrise and it would have been spectacular!
If the re-entry does occur on Monday, and if you are situated at a very quiet location (away from traffic noise, etc), one should hear a faint sonic boom about 4 minutes after the shuttle passes over head.
Stuff that could mess up our viewing plans:
1) Southern Alberta is cloudy
2) Weather in Florida is iffy and NASA decides to delay one orbit - this would shift the landing track to the SW over the US.
3) Weather is bad in Florida and NASA delays the landing one day - we would have to evaluate the new landing time and ground track to announce on Tuesday
4) Weather is really bad in Florida and the shuttle lands in California - we don't see a thing.
I plan to be mobile on Monday morning so if I have to dash to locate clear skies - I will try my best to do so and keep everyone up to date on CBC.
So cross your fingers for clear skies on Monday (both in Florida and Southern Alberta) and perhaps we will get to see this re-entry.

I saw a shuttle re-entry many years ago when I delivered the Calgary Herald. It was really cool - you could even hear the sonic boom.

I wonder if my parents will be stranded in Europe. They're supposed to be flying home from Frankfurt on Tuesday...

[MalcolmTucker]

I remember watching a reentry of the shuttle from one of the MIR-Shuttle missions, and a minute or two later you could see MIR pass over in the same orbital path. Was pretty cool to see the vapor trail (or whatever you would call it that high up) pick up the light as the sun caught it before it rose. The sonic book was a double one I think.

[CalgaryLankan]

Shuttle landing - more data from NASA website;

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/shuttlemissions/sts131/news/landing.html

Orbit 222 is the first choice so far. Orbit 223 is further south with no chance for us in Southern Alberta

[freeweed]

Shuttle landing - more data from NASA website;

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/shuttlemissions/sts131/news/landing.html

Orbit 222 is the first choice so far. Orbit 223 is further south with no chance for us in Southern Alberta

I've never even realized that the shuttle orbits would follow a course over Alberta in this fashion, so it's never dawned on me that I'd have a chance to witness a re-entry. Now that the program is winding down I don't think I'll have a chance to ever watch one going up, but wow would this be cool to see. The next best thing for an 80s kid.

Would you mind keeping this thread up to date on this? I don't have a clue what to keep up with but your summary is encouraging. Even a yes/no type of comment more towards the date. I honestly got confused by your description (do we have a good chance of seeing this or not?) but I would LOVE to see this in person, if it's a possibility. Plus, I'm awake that time of the morning on Mondays so it's very convenient, unlike most astronomical events. :D

[CalgaryLankan]

I've never even realized that the shuttle orbits would follow a course over Alberta in this fashion, so it's never dawned on me that I'd have a chance to witness a re-entry. Now that the program is winding down I don't think I'll have a chance to ever watch one going up, but wow would this be cool to see. The next best thing for an 80s kid.

Would you mind keeping this thread up to date on this? I don't have a clue what to keep up with but your summary is encouraging. Even a yes/no type of comment more towards the date. I honestly got confused by your description (do we have a good chance of seeing this or not?) but I would LOVE to see this in person, if it's a possibility. Plus, I'm awake that time of the morning on Mondays so it's very convenient, unlike most astronomical events. :D

There r so many 'if's for us to have a chance to see it. Pls check back tomorrow for more updates. Also listen CBC eyeopener on Monday morning for more updates.

[MalcolmTucker]

Only shuttle missions to the International Space Station pass over us here, due to the high orbital inclination which exists because the Russians made it a condition of them joining the project (Nasa wanted a much lower inclination). Given the shorter entry profile of Soyuz and similar craft, and the different landing sites for future NASA craft (western deserts or the pacific) this may be the last entry over Canada for a very very long time. The closest we may get in the future is a Soyuz and the ISS passing over together but separate.

The future stations proposed by the new Obama plan would probably not be visible from this far north.

[Bokimon]

The volcano in Iceland: Anybody know if there are any airplanes stuck at the airport destined for europe especially the european carriers?

I would imagine that once the airspace is open again and flights resume, some of these airlines will have to fly in larger equipment to carry the additional passengers. Could that lead to a possibility of seeing the likes of BA 747s, LH A346, A380, KLM 747 etc?

God I hope so...

[Bigtime]

The volcano in Iceland: Anybody know if there are any airplanes stuck at the airport destined for europe especially the european carriers?

I would imagine that once the airspace is open again and flights resume, some of these airlines will have to fly in larger equipment to carry the additional passengers. Could that lead to a possibility of seeing the likes of BA 747s, LH A346, A380, KLM 747 etc?

God I hope so...

Hey Bo, when I got back from Maui yesterday there was a BA 767 parked on one of the aprons. That was the only equipment I could see related to the closure. Over in YVR there was a BA 744 and a Lufthansa A346.

[freeweed]

Stupid NASA waived off that shuttle landing. Ah well, back to bed!

[Bigtime]

Hey everyone,

I thought I'd post a mini trip report of my flights over to Maui and back.

Departure:

Air Canada Flight 48, YYC-OGG (Kahului, Maui)
Boeing 767-300
Flight time ~6 hours 30 minutes

My first time flying direct to Maui from YYC, definitely a big time saver and even better with a baby. One flight and hopefully she would sleep for some of it.

I checked in online the day before, we had the bulkhead row booked right behind business class for the extra legroom. I selected the middle row of seats and took the two aisle seats, leaving the middle seat empty. My hope was that no one would select it and leave us a free seat for Littletime.

Bag drop at YYC was great, a very friendly AC agent helped us out and even recommended some places to eat in the area we were staying at in Maui.

Through US customs no problem (and a very friendly agent here also!) and then just waiting for the flight. We made sure to buy food here as we did know that AC does NOT serve a meal in economy on this flight. I would say that is the only downside to this flight (my parents sitting up in business got meals).

We boarded the flight and as expected this is one of the few remaining 767's that AC has not upgraded to the new cabins with the AVOD systems. I knew about this beforehand also, so no big deal. We did end up with the middle seat free and the flight was great. The AC attendants were very friendly and their service for drinks and other items was very quick and prompt.

The flight arrived 30 minutes early into Kahului, a great way to start the trip!

Return:

Air Canada Flight 058 OGG-YVR
Boeing 767-300 (XM Upgraded)
Flight Time ~5 hours 30 minutes

Nice and smooth check-in at Kahului, yet again a very friendly agent to help us. I believe AC uses Hawaiian airlines for the service here.

This is an overnight flight, leaving Maui at 8:50pm and arriving in Vancouver at ~5am.

Once again we booked the bulkhead middle row, with the two aisle seats booked. Again we got lucky and had the middle seat empty for Littletime, who promptly fell asleep in it after takeoff.

This 767 is one of the upgraded ones, so we had the full selection of videos and other stuff to watch. I had the map up on the middle screen, and watched Transformers II on my screen.

The AC crew on this flight was just a good as our flight out, very friendly and quick and attentive service. The one attendant even gave us a blanket without charging us ($6) for Littletime. Bravo AC!

Arrival slightly early into Vancouver also.

Air Canada Flight 206 YVR-YYC
Embraer 190
Flight Time 1 hour 2 minutes

The flight was delayed about 30 minutes, once the plane arrived boarding was done quickly by row number and everyone hurried on board (apparently quite a few passengers had connections in Calgary).

When we got settled on board the captain came on the PA and let us know the reason for the delay, the first officer that was supposed to work the flight got the phone call from his wife that the baby was coming. So they had to quickly get another one to work the flight (hard to get upset about that!).

Now I have to say I love the Embraer 190 product on AC, the legroom is very generous in economy and for a smaller aircraft it FEELS bigger, nice aisle height and very large windows.

A great flight, this AC crew even better than the other two. A bathroom diaper change accomplished very easily in a bathroom larger than the ones on the 767's!

I have to say I was highly impressed with Air Canada on this trip, I think Westjet needs to be careful because as these younger cabin crews move up the AC chain they are a very real threat to Westjet. Hands down the AC AVOD system is my preference versus the WJ live tv product.

[Bigtime]

So it is looking like if everything goes according to plan 'A' we should get a chance to see the space shuttle re-entering earth's atmosphere at 5:13am tomorrow.

[CalgaryLankan]

Stupid NASA waived off that shuttle landing. Ah well, back to bed!


Still there is a possibility of seeing this tomorrow morning at 5.13 AM

http://www.calgaryherald.com/technology/Calgary+could+glimpse+space+shuttle+Discovery+landing/2925594/story.html

[Bigtime]

Hey CalgaryLankan, any idea what area of the sky one should be looking at to see it?

[CalgaryLankan]

Hey CalgaryLankan, any idea what area of the sky one should be looking at to see it?


It should appear from west and fly towards EAST/SE direction.

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/445731main_KSC237_long.gif

[freeweed]

Now that I've dug into this a fair bit... this next planned landing looks to be almost directly overhead. Should be easy to spot from anywhere really. The Herald article has better info than most sources, including expected duration (1-2 mins max) and what to look for (bright fireball with green plasma effects).

[CalgaryLankan]

http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/news/story/30545/sonic-boom-to-accompany-landin.asp


Accuweather is forecasting for some favourable weather in Florida, but still some cloudes in the forcast.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/launch/landing_blog.html

Best place to check the above blog or watch NASA TV online. Go- No- Go poll is at 4.18 AM. Those who have iphones can watch NASA TV on TVU player.

[CalgaryLankan]

Calgary Sun has better info:

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/2010/04/19/13643296.html


Lets pray for the good weather in Florida. It is 10.00 PM and Cape Canaveral forecast for party sunny sky at 7.00 AM EDT.

[Bigtime]

Well that sucked, set my alarm for 4:50am. Got up and checked the NASA website to see that they scrubbed the first landing attempt. I really wanted to see it. :(