[Shodan]

'Makes no sense to widen' Stony Plain
Idea of changing road to accommodate LRT line riles residents

Gordon Kent
Edmonton Journal

Friday, June 04, 2010

Community members and council members made it clear Thursday they don't want planners to consider widening Stony Plain Road for the west LRT.

"I'm completely dumbfounded," Coun. Linda Sloan said. "Not once in six years do I ever remember council saying we would expand roadways for transit provision."...

gkent@thejournal.canwest.com
© Edmonton Journal 2010

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[MalcolmTucker]

^Im with Jasper on this. I think we'll see Provincial money sunk into both Edmonton and Calgary LRT's.

We will get Green Trip, but that still leaves Edmonton with a funding hole beyond the NAIT LRT, unless they really plow all of the remaining MSI into LRT it isn't going to happen.

[240glt]

I think it's safe to say that unless there's a major shakeup in this falls' election this LRT expansion IS going to happen one way or the other

[CMD UW]

I think it's safe to say that unless there's a major shakeup in this falls' election this LRT expansion IS going to happen one way or the otherExactly my point.

[Coldrsx]

From 'lightrail' over on C2E... quite impressive.

http://members.shaw.ca/david.marlor/etsmap.jpg
(http://members.shaw.ca/david.marlor/etsmap.jpg)

[Coldrsx]

Edmonton LRT system upgrading may cause service disruptions


EDMONTONJOURNAL.COM JUNE 7, 2010 1:03 PM BE THE FIRST TO POST A COMMENT


STORYPHOTOS ( 1 )



Transit riders at Century Park station on the first weekday of the new LRT extension from the Campus station to the new Southgate and Century stations in Edmonton, April 26, 2010.
Photograph by: Ed Kaiser, edmontonjournal.com
EDMONTON — Work to upgrade portions of Edmonton’s LRT system may cause short-term service disruptions, a City of Edmonton news release says.

The work will be done during midday and evening hours and on weekends to minimize the impact on passengers, the release says.



Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/system+upgrading+cause+service+disruptions/3123123/story.html#ixzz0qCXbPHfH

[canucklehead2]

Great map. Let's just pray that it actually gets completed! And there are at least 4 other possible LRT lines that I could eventually see going at some point... Now if only we could get the LRT powered by carbon-free sources ala Calgary, ETS could truly claim to be the greenest way to get around Edmonton!

[feepa]

LRT is hooked up to the same carbon-free grid that CT LRT is connected to... Just get ETS or CoE to add a couple of more wind turbines, and we could have the same claim!

[240glt]

^ & ^^, remember, C-train is powered by that 'carbon free' wind the same way you or I can buy it. It's called an offset.

They don't shut down the train when the wind isn't blowing, do they ? How do ya figure it's powered then ?

[canucklehead2]

Haha, exactly! Making the switch to carbon-free would be as easy as changing power providers or buying credits from Bullfrog Power so why not? Our province has a huge capacity for green power production so why not encourage it?

[ZiZiPop]

Is somebody supposed to be finishing those tacky blue boxes at the intersections on 111st. It seems that once the line opened, all detail work has been abandoned.

[Coldrsx]

Is somebody supposed to be finishing those tacky blue boxes at the intersections on 111st. It seems that once the line opened, all detail work has been abandoned.

It seems as though what we see is the 'detail work'...

As mentioned before, I love the already rusting chicken wire.

[CMD UW]

They are not sure if they are going to install those 'entrance' features as it apparently reduces the sightlines for LRT drivers. I believe they are reviewing this.

[MrOilers]

I love the already rusting chicken wire.

When that first went up I thought it was just temporary construction fencing.

I can't believe they left it up.

[Coldrsx]

Student-fuelled boom in Edmonton LRT ridership expected

Popularity of U-Pass and south Edmonton extension expected to pack trains

BY RICHARD WARNICA, EDMONTONJOURNAL.COM JUNE 11, 2010 6:07 AM COMMENTS (6)


STORYPHOTOS ( 2 )



More Images »

Transit riders at Century Park station on the first weekday of the new LRT extension from the Campus station to the new Southgate and Century stations in Edmonton, April 26, 2010.
Photograph by: Ed Kaiser, edmontonjournal.com
EDMONTON — City officials are bracing for an expected boom this fall in LRT ridership.

The new Southgate and Century Park stations are already drawing thousands of new passengers to the system. That stream could turn into a flood when university and college classes restart in September.

LRT ridership has soared in the city since the first leg of the south extension opened in 2009. In a report prepared for city council, transit officials warned that some trains on the south line are already carrying heavy loads during peak hours.



Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Student+fuelled+boom+Edmonton+ridership+expected/3138499/story.html#ixzz0qYgbvLbX

[0773|=\]

Sounds like they can't extend those platforms quick enough. Good news for the LRT!

[rapid_business]

/\ or add new lines....

[0773|=\]

^Reminds me of a letter I read in the Journal today. Writer thinks that the whole Downtown Arena District needs to be built before we start talking about a W/SE LRT. I was trying to understand the reasoning... apparently the WLRT would, at present, be a line to nowhere ... I guess WEM is "nowhere" :shrug: :koko:

[Coldrsx]

Edmonton mulls solutions to peak-hour LRT crowds

Shorter intervals between runs, more cars considered

BY GORDON KENT, EDMONTONJOURNAL.COM JUNE 15, 2010 3:02 PM COMMENTS (8)


STORYPHOTOS ( 2 )



More Images »

Transit riders at Century Park station on the first weekday of the new LRT extension from the Campus station to the new Southgate and Century stations in Edmonton, April 26, 2010.
Photograph by: Ed Kaiser, edmontonjournal.com
EDMONTON — The city of Edmonton is looking at running LRT trains at shorter intervals to help reduce the big crowds due when summer holidays end in September.

The extension of tracks to Century Park is already proving more popular than expected, with some commuters unable to board up to two packed trains in a row during rush hour, LRT director Dave Geake said Tuesday.



Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Edmonton+mulls+solutions+peak+hour+crowds/3157673/story.html#ixzz0qxfUgx1a

[240glt]

At least once a week I skip a train becuase it is too full from Churchill to Stadium. They need to be running all four car consists ASAP

[feepa]

^^ They’re projecting that at peak times next fall, cars might operate 10 per cent over the capacity for which they were designed when post-secondary students return to class, he told council’s transportation and public works committee.
Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Edmonton+mulls+solutions+peak+hour+crowds/3157673/story.html#ixzz0qxhTNDb4

[feepa]

I just read the comments on that journal article. Again, I question why I do such things. Maybe I thought it would be better now that you have to register to comment. Guess I was wrong.

[Shodan]

Overcrowded LRT a sign of success
'Best problem to have is where to put everybody,' councillor says

Gordon Kent
Edmonton Journal

Wednesday, June 16, 2010

Peak-time south LRT service could get a new name when students fill trains next fall -- the "crush hour."

This spring's expansion to Century Park is already more popular than expected, with some commuters waiting 10 minutes extra because they can't board up to two packed trains in a row, LRT director Dave Geake said on Tuesday...

gkent@thejournal.canwest.com
© Edmonton Journal 2010

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[Shodan]

New bus routes discussed

By CLARA HO, City Hall Bureau, Edmonton Sun

Last Updated: June 15, 2010 8:07pm

Incorporating short “bus-only” roadways between new neighbourhoods is one solution to reducing bus travel time to LRT stations, said the city’s transportation boss.

Instead of having to drive through one long neighbourhood before reaching another, these busses connect and serve the two communities and save travellers time, said transportation general manager Bob Boutilier...

clara.ho@sunmedia.ca

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmonton/2010/06/15/14404561.html

[mooky]

Nice to see Edmonton LRT users finally experiencing the sardine cramming Calgary has had for a while! :tup:

It's a problem, but its a better problem then under-utilization of the system. :)

[Coldrsx]

^AMEN!

We have for far too long heard 'train to nowhere' and 'ghost train'

[ue]

Nice to see Edmonton LRT users finally experiencing the sardine cramming Calgary has had for a while! :tup:

It's a problem, but its a better problem then under-utilization of the system. :)

Are they looking to do anything to relieve the stress on the system and users down in Calgary like we are?

[mooky]

Only solution we have is 4-car consists which won't happen until at least the end of 2012 when the west-LRT opens. This is under the assumption that the NE line is upgraded to 4-car platforms, as the NE line will head west and terminus at 69st street west instead of where it does now at 10th street west downtown.

Whitehorn will be the first station to undergo this as a "test" later this year, and since most of the other NE stations are very similar in design they should go much the same way once they work out the kinks. That's another 6 stations before downtown for a total of 7 to be upgraded. Plus the downtown core needs to be finished its already underway upgrades to 4-car platforms, which will be completed by the middle of 2011.

That still leaves the heaviest crowding in the south -> NW line without a short term fix as it requires more engineering work as a few stations along that route are "questionable" in there ability to expand to 4-car lengths easily and not intersect roadways, etc.

The headways on all our lines during rush hour are just about as close as they can be. I don't know the numbers like some here, but they are close, and the downtown becomes a shit show due to it being on the surface and having to wait for lights. Sure they time it as well as they can, but its still not as fast as a dedicated right-of-way in a tunnel ala Edmonton.

[feepa]

but they are close, and the downtown becomes a shit show due to it being on the surface and having to wait for lights. Sure they time it as well as they can, but its still not as fast as a dedicated right-of-way in a tunnel ala Edmonton.

See WLRT/SELRT in Edmonton in 10 years.... :frog:same problems brewing here. plus, the length of our east/west downtown blocks are shorter than in Calgary downtown east/west blocks

[ue]

^Except that ours still won't stop at lights. The only stop I think of in Edmonton's system is immediately NE of Churchill. Stadium-Clareview and Health Sciences-Century Park do not stop at any lights. Calgary's could easily do so Downtown too, just let the train have the right of way and don't make it stop, make the cars. Maybe those angry drivers will give up on their cars for the LRT ;).

[feepa]

thats a load of bs. "ours wont stop for lights" ya, it will just wait longer at the station or at its own light set further back, which are timed with the traffic lights. Sure, it wont queue up at the intersection like other vehicles do, just a little further back.

the SLRT stops for lights, I've witnessed it myself, in both directions and so does the LRT in downtown calgary, and along the NE.

The lights are timed with the LRT control blocks. Often times the driver is either going to fast for the block, or the timing is off. I've come to stop many times, and you can watch the light 200-500 m down the road turn green in the direction your going just after the train gets its light to go.

A frequent spot in Calgary to stop is at the crossing just before entering downtown from the NW LRT line after crossing the bridge.

[240glt]

^^ The LRT doesn't stop NE of Churchill, it just slows down in case there's a bum passed out on the tracks just inside the tunnel entrance.

^ Having been caught in the SLRT traffic chaos I have a hard time believing that the LRT stops regularly for traffic. At least not in the way the C-train does.

[Coldrsx]

^agreed x 2.

[SHOFEAR]

just toss some cow catchers on those puppies.

[Coldrsx]

City wants airports authority to share transit cost

Trial run for bus service to Edmonton International could start this fall

BY GORDON KENT, EDMONTONJOURNAL.COM JUNE 17, 2010 12:25 PM BE THE FIRST TO POST A COMMENT


EDMONTON — Trial transit bus service to the Edmonton International Airport should start this fall if the airport authority will cover half the cost, a new report says.

Officials are recommending an 18-month test of a bus to the airport from the Century Park LRT station, which would run daily every 30 minutes from 5:30 a.m. to 1:30 a.m., says the report released Thursday.

The cash fare would be $5, higher than the standard adult fare of $2.75 to ride Edmonton Transit, but the route would still need a $982,000 subsidy because “there is a significant risk of low ridership levels,” the report says.



Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/City+wants+airports+authority+share+transit+cost/3166722/story.html#ixzz0r8bEQeLb

[ue]

thats a load of bs. "ours wont stop for lights" ya, it will just wait longer at the station or at its own light set further back, which are timed with the traffic lights. Sure, it wont queue up at the intersection like other vehicles do, just a little further back.

the SLRT stops for lights, I've witnessed it myself, in both directions and so does the LRT in downtown calgary, and along the NE.

The lights are timed with the LRT control blocks. Often times the driver is either going to fast for the block, or the timing is off. I've come to stop many times, and you can watch the light 200-500 m down the road turn green in the direction your going just after the train gets its light to go.

A frequent spot in Calgary to stop is at the crossing just before entering downtown from the NW LRT line after crossing the bridge.

I'm not shocked by that, but like 240 said, I doubt it's that common. It is usually the cars that have to stop for the LRT, not the other way around. The only spots that commonly stop not at the station is just before Clareview and just south of Whitemud. Neither of which are at major lights.

WLRT and SELRT does not stop at red lights for cars/pedestrians/buses because it operates on it's own ROW just like the current LRT. I'm not shocked it does this sometimes to fit better the scheduling and I'm not shocked the things are timed so that it's still easier for cars to get over the tracks.

@240...makes more sense as I've only ever heard of it stopping around 95th from sources.

[feepa]

Having rode SLRT probably 45 times now since it opened.

Train stops southbound just before entering the 111st transition tunnel about half the times I've rode LRT southbound.
northbound on the LRT, it occurs less often, but I've watched the trains have to stop at almost every block (I don't mean city block - but a train block), because traffic was crossing at the next intersection.

So no- the train mostly has the right away, as long as it stays perfectly timed in each of its blocks, but if it goes too fast, or leaves a station too early, it gets caught waiting for the lights

[mooky]

It's probably just a timing issue they are still working on refining. It's rare (but does happen on occasion) that an LRT in Calgary here stops for a light. Between the timing signals on the track and the timing of the traffic lights, its usually got the right of way and it's smooth sailing.

Now that's outside the 7th avenue corridor (including the switches to the S, NE, and NW lines), which as I stated before is a cluster hump between waiting for lights, and having to play chicken with cars and pedestrians wanting to win Darwin awards.

[North_Regina_Boy]

If LRT becomes more available in Edmonton I might move there for work and buy a condo near a station and just ride to work everyday. I loved doing that when I was in Stockholm!

EDIT **Keep the BMW for those Sunday drives though**

[Coldrsx]

If LRT becomes more available in Edmonton I might move there for work and buy a condo near a station and just ride to work everyday. I loved doing that when I was in Stockholm!

EDIT **Keep the BMW for those Sunday drives though**

or just walk...

**keep the s2000 for those M-S rips in the valley*
:cheers:

[Shodan]

New LRT route will link city's corners
Single train will travel from Lewis Estates to Mill Woods

Gordon Kent
Edmonton Journal

Tuesday, June 22, 2010

A downtown LRT route was approved Monday that will one day allow transit passengers to travel in a single train from Lewis Estates to Mill Woods.

The new link following 107th Street and 102nd Avenue will connect hicle the west-end line that now ends at Grant MacEwan University with the southeast terminus near 96th Street in the future Quarters development. le

There will also be a spur south on 107th Street to the legislature, the first step in a line that will eventually cross the North Saskatchewan River to Old Strathcona and then head east to meet the southeast track at Bonnie Doon...

gkent@thejournal.canwest.com
© Edmonton Journal 2010

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CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved.

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[Coldrsx]

^I was present in chambers for this and still am concerned about the routing and more so the N/S flow of people and traffic. E/W flow will also be interesting considering our short blocks.

I just do not see how signal sequencing will allow for fluid movement along 102ave.

[240glt]

I'm trying to figure out why a train down 102ave is even necessary with the tunnel onder Jasper and the surface line north of 104 ave ? I suspect this is a long ways off regardless.

If they do move forward with this line it should be done when 102ave is turned into a bike bus & taxi road.

In the short term, how about fixing the sequencing of the lights so the designated cycling route is actually convenient for cyclists ? Seems like whoever is responsible for this does not understand how important kinetic energy is to cyclists

[Coldrsx]

The NW routing is going to public meeting today.

[Coldrsx]

HELLO NLRT

------------
Green TRIP pledges $800M to Edmonton

Fund implemented to roll back greenhouse gas emissions

BY TRISH AUDETTE, EDMONTONJOURNAL.COM JUNE 22, 2010 10:08 AM BE THE FIRST TO POST A COMMENT


STORYPHOTOS ( 1 )



The total Green Transit Incentives Program will be $2-billion, with the bulk going to Edmonton and Calgary areas.
Photograph by: Candace Elliott, The Journal, Edmonton Journal
EDMONTON — The province unveiled its multi-year Green TRIP plan Tuesday morning, promising $800 million to Edmonton’s capital region.



Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Green+TRIP+pledges+800M+Edmonton/3186264/story.html#ixzz0rbIbXnlM

[ue]

I'm trying to figure out why a train down 102ave is even necessary with the tunnel onder Jasper and the surface line north of 104 ave ? I suspect this is a long ways off regardless.

If they do move forward with this line it should be done when 102ave is turned into a bike bus & taxi road.

In the short term, how about fixing the sequencing of the lights so the designated cycling route is actually convenient for cyclists ? Seems like whoever is responsible for this does not understand how important kinetic energy is to cyclists

102 Ave is needed for Oliver (west LRT) and Quarters (MW LRT) to be connected. They wouldn't keep it down 104th I'm guessing because it's a block off the NAIT LRT (although the current choice is only a block from Jasper Ave's LRT). Having it directly on Jasper would probably cause angry commuters and won't help revitalize the Warehouse "Campus" like 102 Ave will as it goes right through it directly, and for those that need to transfer, Jasper is a block off, or you can meet at Churchill. It does a great job maintaining Churchill as the 100% true heart of the city('s transit).

[240glt]

Still doesn't make a lot of sense to me, except for servicing Oliver better but the plan as shown looks like it will just connect @ 107st and not carry on west.

Boyle street is a moot point because it'll get a station as part of the Mill Woods line, and likely nothing will happen in that area for two decades anyways.

I'm just trying to figure out who's going to benefit from this. I'd rather see the LRT hit all the corners of the city as that's going to have a greater benefit for more people, then lets worry about how we're going to move people from downtown to Strathcona (which isn't really all that big a problem right now anyways)

[ue]

You need the LRT down 102 Ave (or 103 Ave, Jasper Ave, 100 Ave, 104 Ave, 105 Ave, etc.) so that you can connect both lines into one. Otherwise WLRT would stop at Grant MacEwan and MWLRT would stop at the Muttart or Quarters. It's crucial both are connected at Churchill so people can easily transfer in a snap to other lines (NAIT, SLRT, NELRT). And then 102 Ave will potentially have the added benefit of helping fill in a lot of parking lots in the Warehouse Campus as generally speaking, having the LRT at your doorstep (be it for businesses or residents or even tourists at hotels) is a big attraction to an area (provided it's a nice, safe, interesting area) and it will make 102 Ave more attractive to developers to develop (that, and the increased popularity of 104 St, city incentives via the Downtown plan). The Warehouse Campus will also likely revitalize much much sooner than the Quarters would.

[240glt]

Ah, I thought that the SELRT/WLRT was going to connect with the noew NLRT but now I realise that because they're going with a different format that the lines need to be tied together. I never really thought about that, but thought the plans was to run it down 104 ave

[feepa]

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2849/dlrt.jpg

[240glt]

^ Interesting. Seems like a lot of those stations are a bit redundant though

The traffic issues will be interesting, not so much on 102 ave, but where it transitions up to 104 ave things could get nasty.

[Xelebes]

The only redundant station I can see is Legilature - with it being so close to Grandin-Crossing.

[Coldrsx]

Keep in mind the 'future' HSR station will be south of 99ave to the high level...

[0773|=\]

^ Interesting. Seems like a lot of those stations are a bit redundant though

The traffic issues will be interesting, not so much on 102 ave, but where it transitions up to 104 ave things could get nasty.

Maybe they're a little redundant, but if they spread the passengers over more stations in the core, I could see it helping planners handle capacity/congestion issues. Coupled with priority signaling, this could prevent the problems that downtown Calgary's surface line experiences.

I just wish there was another line spurring off our high-floor route, so that NAIT and Clareview bound trains have different south terminals as well. There's no reason why our underground line shouldn't be operating at maximum train capacity.

[basilbrush]

I just wish there was another line spurring off our high-floor route, so that NAIT and Clareview bound trains have different south terminals as well. There's no reason why our underground line shouldn't be operating at maximum train capacity.

This dissapoints me too. With today's funding announcement there could nearly have been enough money to fund the NLRT to NAIT and the start the original 87th ave WLRT( i think the city is still required to match 40% of whatever money the province puts in). Instead, with this current WLRT plan that we have, alot of money will be eaten up by laying tracks down the middle of downtown only a block apart from the existing LRT tunnel under Jasper ave.

So much time and money invested in the tunnel and then we decide to start a completely seperate system?

[Shodan]

Cash keeps LRT extension on schedule
Province earmarks $800 million for city under the green transit program

Gordon Kent And Trish Audette
Edmonton Journal

Wednesday, June 23, 2010

The NAIT LRT line will be completed in 2014 now that the province has announced the Edmonton region is receiving $800 million in transit funding, the city's transportation general manager says.

Bob Boutilier has repeatedly expressed concern that delays in providing details for Alberta's $2-billion Green TRIP plan would throw the next LRT project off schedule, but he said Tuesday's announcement means the 3.1-kilometre route will be finished on time.

The province unveiled guidelines for municipalities to apply for its multi-year Green Transit Incentives Program on Tuesday morning in Edmonton....

taudette@thejournal.canwest.com

gkent@thejournal.canwest.com
© Edmonton Journal 2010

Copyright © 2010 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved.
CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved.

http://www2.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=dfcda4f0-c467-4fa4-9ec3-544396411074&sponsor=

[RicoLance21]

Maybe they're a little redundant, but if they spread the passengers over more stations in the core, I could see it helping planners handle capacity/congestion issues. Coupled with priority signaling, this could prevent the problems that downtown Calgary's surface line experiences.

I just wish there was another line spurring off our high-floor route, so that NAIT and Clareview bound trains have different south terminals as well. There's no reason why our underground line shouldn't be operating at maximum train capacity.

I was wondering how to keep trains at Health Sciences flowing when there will be two routes with one ending at that station? My opinion is to have the train swing west just south of Health Sciences and then terminate at the Cross Cancer Institute at 117 Street and University Avenue. That should keep the Clareview/Century Park line flowing.

[MalcolmTucker]

I was wondering how to keep trains at Health Sciences flowing when there will be two routes with one ending at that station? My opinion is to have the train swing west just south of Health Sciences and then terminate at the Cross Cancer Institute at 117 Street and University Avenue. That should keep the Clareview/Century Park line flowing.

No real difference between that option and just keeping it at Health Sciences if you eliminate any scheduled layover besides switching train ends. You still take up two station 'slots' either way.

[DKaz]

A downtown LRT route was approved Monday that will one day allow transit passengers to travel in a single train from Lewis Estates to Mill Woods.

I wonder if the Lewis Estates residents are scared. Stop the crime train, the Millwoods residents are coming! lol.

[ue]

^LOL. Sounds like comments from whiny southsiders about them scary northsiders.

[oiler-dude]

Noticed today heading southbound on the LRT that just as the train leaves Corona and enters the turn down 109st, there's a rather large opening there. Was this at any time plans to branch off a line? Or just...there?

[feepa]

yes. What you see and assume is correct. They built the tunnel with expansions in mind.

[basilbrush]

yes. What you see and assume is correct. They built the tunnel with expansions in mind.

Who is "they"? Can we get them back?

[feepa]

It would be nice to see the WLRT go through oliver by way of tunnel start under Jasper ave/124st area and join the existing tunnel at about corona.

[lightrail]

Noticed today heading southbound on the LRT that just as the train leaves Corona and enters the turn down 109st, there's a rather large opening there. Was this at any time plans to branch off a line? Or just...there?

Not really. When Corona opened, they had no idea where the line would go, only a vague notion it would go over the river somewhere somehow.

When Corona was built, the station box is longer than required for the platforms, this was to accommodate signal and rectifier equipment in the space above the tracks; it also accommodates pedestrian access passages. The space west of the station could have also been used as a cross-over, similar to the ones west of Central and south of churchill.

When the line was laid out to to travel south under 110 street, for engineering reasons the tunnels left the station box at an angle, pushing out through the south side of the box. A cross-over box was built located before the tunnels line up under 110 Street - this is just noth of 100 Av and 110 st - the site has been built over now.

So no, there never was a plan to extend the line further west under Jasper.

[basilbrush]

It would be nice to see the WLRT go through oliver by way of tunnel start under Jasper ave/124st area and join the existing tunnel at about corona.


That would be much more preferable to the current plan.

Man, we're gonna have million$ wasted on a largely redundant route through downtown. But that's not what scares me the most about the new surface LRT through downtown.

It used to be that any arguments/comparisons that came up between the LRT and C-Train systems would come down to Calgarian drooling about our downtown subway system. Now we're saying "forget that! Let's do an intrusive surface line too. Developers will be lining up for blocks to build condos and hi-rise towers all around the new line. It happens in Sim City ya know." But that's not what scares me the most either.

What scares me the most is that if we go ahead and build this thing as planned and it fails to perform as planned then there will be little support for future LRT expansions from Edmontonians - let alone the upper levels of government. Edmontonians know that our current LRT system is expensive to expand, but at least they know that when the work is done it will perform predictably and reliably. The proposal for the W/SELRT is such a radical departure from our existing LRT system that i can only think of one phrase to describe it - "a gamble". We don't know what's going to happen when we remove two lanes of traffic from major arteries like Stony Plain Road and 156th street. We can't guarantee that Stony Plain road business will benefit from an LRT down the middle of the street. We can't guarantee that TODs will sprout up at 142nd street or 118th street. We can't even find another city that has implemented such a system in the manner we intend to.

I can't knock the city for being bold, I just hope we're not being stupid. $2 billion is a pretty big gamble.

[naidoo]

^Um, I don't know where to begin with this post.

[MalcolmTucker]

What scares me the most is that if we go ahead and build this thing as planned and it fails to perform as planned then there will be little support for future LRT expansions from Edmontonians
I agree this is a big risk. This is similar to the slow down in comparison to Calgary due to reduced support after lackluster results with the initial system in the 80s/90s.

Edit: to be clear, I am talking about possible implementation reducing want for further expansion.

[240glt]

^ It's a big expense, not a big risk.

This situation is nothing like Calgary in the '80's

[Cow-garian]

It happens in Sim City ya know.

So thats the program they use for city planning. Awesome :P

[ue]

That would be much more preferable to the current plan.

Man, we're gonna have million$ wasted on a largely redundant route through downtown. But that's not what scares me the most about the new surface LRT through downtown.

It used to be that any arguments/comparisons that came up between the LRT and C-Train systems would come down to Calgarian drooling about our downtown subway system. Now we're saying "forget that! Let's do an intrusive surface line too. Developers will be lining up for blocks to build condos and hi-rise towers all around the new line. It happens in Sim City ya know." But that's not what scares me the most either.

What scares me the most is that if we go ahead and build this thing as planned and it fails to perform as planned then there will be little support for future LRT expansions from Edmontonians - let alone the upper levels of government. Edmontonians know that our current LRT system is expensive to expand, but at least they know that when the work is done it will perform predictably and reliably. The proposal for the W/SELRT is such a radical departure from our existing LRT system that i can only think of one phrase to describe it - "a gamble". We don't know what's going to happen when we remove two lanes of traffic from major arteries like Stony Plain Road and 156th street. We can't guarantee that Stony Plain road business will benefit from an LRT down the middle of the street. We can't guarantee that TODs will sprout up at 142nd street or 118th street. We can't even find another city that has implemented such a system in the manner we intend to.

I can't knock the city for being bold, I just hope we're not being stupid. $2 billion is a pretty big gamble.

It's worked on surface LRT in real life, too. Even Calgary has TODs sprouting out on surface LRT. Believe it or not, Century Park TOD is built next to surface LRT. I think TODs would go in Strathearn, Stony Plain Road, etc. regardless of if LRT was high floor or low floor, underground or above ground...just the fact that it's there at the doorstep.

I don't know of any other cities that will have a dual high floor and low floor system, but surface low floor LRT through urban districts such as Downtowns have worked fine in other cities. The only one I've ever heard negativity about was the one in Calgary, which we are not modeling after (instead we are off the successful systems of Dublin and Portland, OR).

I agree it's kind of a gamble. No we don't know the results of LRT down SPR or 156 St. We don't know for sure it will revitalize Stony Plain Road. But did we know for sure the effects of going surface along 111 St on traffic and pedestrians? Nope. Did we know for sure about building an underground tunnel underneath Jasper the effects it would have on the Core? Nope. Did the first condo developers deciding to build a low rise condo at Clareview know for sure it would be successful and other condos would eventually be built? Nope.

[Xelebes]

The biggest stumbling block I can see for the whole low-floor on SPR is how they are going to deal with the westbound vehicular traffic on SPR. Eastbound has 100 Ave - are they going to use 107th Ave as the west bound portion for the road. Not accommodating the west bound might grind SPR to a halt, making it less pedestrian friendly than it is right now.

I don't know, just throwing that out there.

[mick]

Paris has their extensive underground system and four newly added low floor lrt lines that run in exclusive row boulevards. They integrate well with existing underground stations (I.e. You take an escalator to the surface and hop on). Heck, they integrate better than some of the underground lines that supposedly cross at the same station but for some reason have 400m plus walks between platforms, or more.

The low floor line will work well in the current row provided it's designed well. The excess capacity on the southside of the tunnel can always be used in the future - assuming that the capacity isn't taken up by increased frequency on the current line and the future nait line. Is the low floor line the best solution? Who knows, there are many ways to skin a cat. This is one, and I hope it works well. It has shortcomings, as did my preferred solution (connection at corona, down Jasper and then 102ave); however, I don't have the hubris necessary to categorically declare my preferred route is the only logical one.

[MalcolmTucker]

A little different running a line on a 4 lane road vs a six lane plus parking lanes road (that parallels an expressway). Note that the trams don't run into central Paris, with its shorter block length. The tram also was replacing an over capacity bus line, not providing 'backbone' transit.

If Edmonton can build at anywhere near the cost of Line 3 I will be impressed - the line was crazy economical.

[ue]

^Well Paris is over 10X bigger, not to mention a huge tourist draw compared to Edmonton. The congestion issues in Central Paris obviously would make a tram or streetcar hectic. Or regular surface LRT. Frankfurt am Main, Manchester, Amsterdam, Sheffield, München, Athena, Dublin, and Roma all seem to do well with trams or surface LRT.

[tallisgood]

That would be much more preferable to the current plan.

Man, we're gonna have million$ wasted on a largely redundant route through downtown. But that's not what scares me the most about the new surface LRT through downtown.

It used to be that any arguments/comparisons that came up between the LRT and C-Train systems would come down to Calgarian drooling about our downtown subway system. Now we're saying "forget that! Let's do an intrusive surface line too. Developers will be lining up for blocks to build condos and hi-rise towers all around the new line. It happens in Sim City ya know." But that's not what scares me the most either.

What scares me the most is that if we go ahead and build this thing as planned and it fails to perform as planned then there will be little support for future LRT expansions from Edmontonians - let alone the upper levels of government. Edmontonians know that our current LRT system is expensive to expand, but at least they know that when the work is done it will perform predictably and reliably. The proposal for the W/SELRT is such a radical departure from our existing LRT system that i can only think of one phrase to describe it - "a gamble". We don't know what's going to happen when we remove two lanes of traffic from major arteries like Stony Plain Road and 156th street. We can't guarantee that Stony Plain road business will benefit from an LRT down the middle of the street. We can't guarantee that TODs will sprout up at 142nd street or 118th street. We can't even find another city that has implemented such a system in the manner we intend to.

I can't knock the city for being bold, I just hope we're not being stupid. $2 billion is a pretty big gamble.

I'd have to agree with you 100%.

[Xelebes]

It's 12:15 am and I'm already home from the fireworks downtown. Last few years, I had to wait on the bus until 1 or 1:30 am. I think there was some modification to the routing the buses and the LRT expansion are to blame for the improvements.

[hilman]

^ That is a good thing, how were the fireworks?

[Coldrsx]

It's 12:15 am and I'm already home from the fireworks downtown. Last few years, I had to wait on the bus until 1 or 1:30 am. I think there was some modification to the routing the buses and the LRT expansion are to blame for the improvements.

I watched from my condo and noticed A LOT less cars this year and more people coming in 'waves', which leads me to believe a ton of people took LRT.

Mind you we still got to watch the 'ants' struggle to leave the area from 1120-midnight.

[feepa]

^ I don't know what is better, the fireworks, or the near-chaos of the ants that ensues afterwards. Either way, makes for a solid hour on the balcony!

[Coldrsx]

^fireworks are prettier, ants are more entertaining.... especially when patience begins to run low and they find their horn.

I will admit though that last night the ants behaved better than i have seen them do in the past 4 yrs.

[Xelebes]

^ That is a good thing, how were the fireworks?

Quite well, thank you. I don't really know the finer things about fireworks to really give a good comparison.

[Coldrsx]

Downtown commuters taking more buses, fewer cars

Report finds 50-50 split last year between motorists, transit riders

By Gordon Kent, edmontonjournal.com July 3, 2010 Comments (2)



* Story
* Photos ( 2 )


About 25,000 people cycle or walk downtown daily, a new report says.

More Images »

About 25,000 people cycle or walk downtown daily, a new report says.
Photograph by: Shaughn Butts, The Journal, Edmonton Journal

EDMONTON - Fewer people are driving downtown and more are taking buses and the LRT.

While roughly two-thirds of people whose weekday destination was the urban core went by private vehicle and one-third took the bus or LRT in 2004, last year it was nearly a 50-50 split, says a recently released report.

Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Downtown+commuters+taking+more+buses+fewer+cars/3232492/story.html#ixzz0sdulrReO

[Coldrsx]

Busier LRT a healthy sign


EDMONTON JOURNAL JULY 6, 2010


For anyone who has stepped into an LRT car lately for the morning commute downtown, a new report from the city confirms what you've undoubtedly noticed: More people are picking transit to get to, through or from the core than ever before.

For a city with multibillion-dollar expansion plans in the works for branches to the south, north and west, that information is a welcome piece of news.



Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/opinion/Editorial+Busier+healthy+sign/3240005/story.html#ixzz0sulkuWgp

[espalorius]

Downtown commuters taking more buses, fewer cars

Report finds 50-50 split last year between motorists, transit riders

By Gordon Kent, edmontonjournal.com July 3, 2010 Comments (2)



* Story
* Photos ( 2 )


About 25,000 people cycle or walk downtown daily, a new report says.

More Images »

About 25,000 people cycle or walk downtown daily, a new report says.
Photograph by: Shaughn Butts, The Journal, Edmonton Journal

EDMONTON - Fewer people are driving downtown and more are taking buses and the LRT.

While roughly two-thirds of people whose weekday destination was the urban core went by private vehicle and one-third took the bus or LRT in 2004, last year it was nearly a 50-50 split, says a recently released report.

Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Downtown+commuters+taking+more+buses+fewer+cars/3232492/story.html#ixzz0sdulrReO


sorrrry to quote the whole thing but thats really goood news

thanks for posting that cold

[240glt]

I am dreading the fall.... the trains are packed as it is, school traffic is going to make it that much worse

Trans. dept. better figure something out, it would be a shame to lose riders because of the system becoming overcrowded

[Coldrsx]

I am dreading the fall.... the trains are packed as it is, school traffic is going to make it that much worse

Trans. dept. better figure something out, it would be a shame to lose riders because of the system becoming overcrowded

That they better... for I expect some significant congestion to the point of frustration.

Mind you people need to recognize that habits need to change as well for we are growing up as a city and our rush hour is not the 5mins it used to be.

[240glt]

It's getting bad enough that even the 4 car trains are packed.. this morning at Stadium about 2/3 of the people on the platform had to wait for the next train because the 4 car train was too full.

Mind you, a lot of that could be alleviated if they ran the trains at 5 minute intervals like they are supposed to, not the 2-7-3-9 random intervals they have now

[mintzilla]

^ i know this is probably a stupid solution but i think more people should just "hang out" more after and before work or whatever. i used to take the lrt every weekday and if it was rush hour i would just kill time doing whatever, shopping, sight seeing meet a friend whatever.

also theres nothing i hate more than people who after an oilers game have to be the first one out the door, why not sit, relax, finish your beer/pizza. have a nice chat until things die down. whats the rush?

[TimB09]

^ i know this is probably a stupid solution but i think more people should just "hang out" more after and before work or whatever. i used to take the lrt every weekday and if it was rush hour i would just kill time doing whatever, shopping, sight seeing meet a friend whatever.

also theres nothing i hate more than people who after an oilers game have to be the first one out the door, why not sit, relax, finish your beer/pizza. have a nice chat until things die down. whats the rush?

That's what I do after every Eskimo and Oilers game I attend. I'll hang around for a bit in my seat, then I'll go to the washroom, THEN I'll head to the train. No point in rushing.

[240glt]

^^ You & Cold should hang out, apparently both of you have nothing better to do with your time.

I'm totally kidding of course, On occasion I'll just wait for the next train to avoid cramming myself into a packed train car, but when you actually have to be somewhere it is a bit annoying.

[Coldrsx]

^haha...

But it is true and a reason why a downtown rink would be great for that.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

^haha...

But it is true and a reason why a downtown rink would be great for that.

But...but...downtown is DANGEROUS! OMG!

[CMD UW]

I can tell you that the LRT trains are packed by the time they hit South Campus...and the post secondary students aren't around yet.

I typically hop on the train heading south around 5:30-6pm, after the rush. Staggered commuting, that's my motto.

[canucklehead2]

Argh! Don't even remind of trying to get back on the LRT on Canada Day, especially this year... I ended up choking Pepper/Bear spray at Churchill Station at 12:15 a.m. thanks to someone setting it off during a fight... Then ended up evacuating my train so I had to phone my dad for a ride home... Needless to say I was pissed!

[Coldrsx]

^O...k....then.

[Keats82]

They really do need to run longer trains - but if I remember correctly, some stations are only 3 cars wide? And isn't the one under Epcor only two? Does that mean the train hs to stagger itself? Is that a safety hazzard?

[ue]

Like said before, they also really need to increase frequency. Something like this:

Every 3 minutes - 07:00-09:00 / 12:00-13:00 / 16:00-18:00

Every 5-6 minutes - 09:00-12:00 / 13:00-16:00 / 18:00-20:00

Every 8-12 minutes - 20:00-07:00

[hilman]

They really do need to run longer trains - but if I remember correctly, some stations are only 3 cars wide? And isn't the one under Epcor only two? Does that mean the train hs to stagger itself? Is that a safety hazzard?

The few remaining stations are currently being upgraded from 4 to 5 car platform lengths. The power is also being upgraded to allow 4 train lengths of the new SD160 cars (from 3 car lengths).

Maybe you are thinking of Calgary's system of maximum 3 car trains?

[rapid_business]

Like said before, they also really need to increase frequency. Something like this:

Every 3 minutes - 07:00-09:00 / 12:00-13:00 / 16:00-18:00

Every 5-6 minutes - 09:00-12:00 / 13:00-16:00 / 18:00-20:00

Every 8-12 minutes - 20:00-07:00

Yup, that may be a little much right now, but I like your thinking.

Although, it comes down to rolling stock, which they don't have enough of to meet this kind of headway.