[NYguy]

Riverplace II
653 ft / 199 m
58 floors
Construction: 2007 through 2009
Costas Kondylis & Partners LLP Architects

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/87807111/original.jpg


______________________________________

NY OBSERVER

Larry’s Revenge: Silverstein Digs A Hole At Javits

By Matthew Schuerman


Real-estate developer Larry Silverstein has laid the groundwork for a 53-story residential tower at 42nd Street and 11th Avenue—right on the spot where a $1.4 billion plan by the state to expand the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center calls for a hotel.

Over the past six months, Mr. Silverstein’s company has been doing remediation work for what his spokesman says will be a residential tower, with no hotel rooms—the sequel to River Place I, a 40-story steeple of luxury rentals that Mr. Silverstein built four years ago right next-door.

More than a year ago, convention-center planners sketched a new hotel on a vacant plot of land along West 42nd Street without bothering to tell the man who owned it: Larry Silverstein.

Nor has the state approached Mr. Silverstein about buying the lot since then. And either because the price is too high, or because officials have had second thoughts, the new leader in charge of convention-center planning told The Observer that the site is now just one of several possible locations for the hotel. Of course, with each passing day, it will get harder—and more expensive—to wrest the property from Mr. Silverstein’s hands. Instead of the state driving the plan, it’s looking more like the market is.

“It’s his property,” said Charles Gargano, chairman of the New York City Convention Center Development Corporation. “He can do what he wants with it. This in no way affects our decision about where to put the hotel.”


Bid-’Em-Up Larry?

So far, behind tall walls of blue plywood at the southeast corner of 42nd Street and 11th Avenue, Mr. Silverstein’s contractors have dug a pit about 30 feet deep. According to Bud Perrone, the spokesman for Mr. Silverstein’s company, the developer expects to start construction sometime next year. And while the state could still exert its power of eminent domain in order to buy the property away from him, each day of progress makes that effort harder.

But some observers see a gambit in this remediation work.

Mr. Silverstein has been roiled by delays and a lack of tenants downtown, and he recently endured a drubbing by the Mayor, who told the Daily News editorial board earlier this fall that the best thing to do at Ground Zero might be to pay Mr. Silverstein to abandon his interests in the site.

Here, too, Mr. Silverstein’s interests clash with powerful government figures. Beginning work on a residential tower could raise the stakes for the state if it were to buy him off the site. It could also raise the prices he could expect if he’s able to sell the land unbuilt and for residential use, if it looked as though the state were eager to buy from the new owner.

A confidential offering brochure, obtained by The Observer, calls the lot “Midtown West’s Premier Development Site” and boasts that it comes with already “approved plans for a 53-story building of approximately 854,000 square feet.” An additional 150,000 square feet could be added if affordable housing were included. “Buildings such as the Orion, Lumiere, and Central Park Place provide compelling evidence that condominium units at 600 West 42nd, with the appropriate design, will easily achieve prices of $1,100-$1,500 per square foot,” the brochure states.

Two real-estate sources said that Mr. Silverstein was asking between $300 and $325 a square foot, or up to $278 million for the property—which would put it well out of range for the New York City Convention Center Development Corporation, which projected that only $350 million would be needed to buy the land and construct the hotel.

Mr. Silverstein’s company spokesman wouldn’t comment on pricing or whether any offers were made. “Larry did put out feelers, but he said he had a change of heart and decided to build it himself,” Mr. Perrone said. Plans for the tower, including the number of floors, are in development, he added. The excavation permit on file at the city Department of Buildings says the tower will rise 53 stories.

Mr. Gargano said that the price Mr. Silverstein was asking was indeed one reason to look for alternative sites, though the two never negotiated with each other.

Deputy Mayor Dan Doctoroff said it wasn’t so much Mr. Silverstein’s asking price that prompted the look-around as the fact that 42nd Street has become an expensive location, dominated by luxury condos..

“We have a fixed amount of money, and I think the appropriate thing to do is to really assess where we can best afford to put a hotel,” he told The Observer.

Either way, Mr. Silverstein’s below-ground work and offering plan demonstrate the precariousness of the Javits expansion project a year after the state legislature and the Governor consigned $1.4 billion to a plan that included a hotel on Mr. Silverstein’s property.

In addition to the location of the hotel, officials are uncertain whether they will ever be able to relocate a city bus garage, which is needed for the second phase of the expansion. At the same time, the local community board and a university research institute are pushing for a radical redesign that would use the M.T.A. rail yards once intended as the site of a new stadium for the Jets football team.

That switch seems unlikely, but the lack of a final schematic plan is annoying one of the chief legislators who saw the financing through the State Assembly last fall.

“It’s almost a dereliction of duty that they haven’t presented the operating corporation with a plan by this point,” said Assemblyman Richard Brodsky, a Westchester Democrat running for State Attorney General. “We aren’t saying that plans don’t change, but if that’s what they want to do, they better tell us. All we are hearing are rumors of lack of resources.”

Mr. Gargano told The Observer that the expansion project is still on track, and that the outlines of Phase 1 are clear except for the location of the planned hotel component.


Conventional Planning

The expansion of the Javits Center already rates as one of the state’s most massive development projects, requiring $800 million in state bonding and a new $1.50-a-room hotel tax. It’s a big job. The first phase of the expansion calls for enlarging the exhibition space by 44 percent, from 760,000 to 1.1 million square feet. But the architects will have to do that by adding just one extra block onto the center: Instead of stretching from 34th to 39th streets, as it does now, the center will extend up to 40th Street.

The larger Javits Center will be able to accommodate more and larger shows, but it will still be a midget compared to the three-million-square-footers that other cities are now constructing,.

In addition, the first phase of the expansion calls for about $150 million in public funds to go toward the hotel, which the final environmental-impact statement (as well as the preliminary sketches) stipulates will be located on Mr. Silverstein’s property.

But both of those documents were drawn up under the direction of the agency running—rather than expanding—the convention center. Once Mr. Gargano, a close aide to Governor George Pataki and also chairman of the Empire State Development Corporation, took charge of the expansion about a year ago, he essentially tore up the old plans, which had been drafted by Hellmuth, Obata & Kassabaum.

“We looked at what they had done and determined it was very minimal,” Mr. Gargano said.

He has spent much of the previous year staffing the development corporation, which is headed by Mike Petralia, a former Port Authority administrator. The agency conducted a two-stage selection process for architects and awarded the contract to three: Richard Rogers, the British lord who is expected to bring some flash to the project; FXFowle, a New York boutique firm that will contribute local knowledge and environmental savvy; and A. Epstein & Sons International, a Chicago firm specializing in convention-center design. Members from the three outfits have been in New York since mid-October conducting a charette.

Mr. Gargano’s agency chose the three firms in September, and a preliminary design scheme is expected by the end of the year.

But along the way, Mr. Gargano began to consider locating the hotel elsewhere, especially along 11th Avenue. While he wouldn’t discuss specific parcels, one possibility, between 36th and 37th streets, is owned by Steve Witkoff; another, at 34th Street, was recently purchased by Joseph Moinian.

The original planning team chose 42nd Street because it’s a better place to hail a cab—and feels more central. “We are kind of isolated where we are. When you come out of Javits Center, you have to walk five or six blocks before you find anything,” said Bob Boyle, the chairman of the New York City Convention Center Operating Corporation.

The 42nd Street location has its own shortcomings, however—chiefly the fact that the hotel would be separated from the expanded center by a block-long city bus garage, between 40th and 41st streets, and no one seems confident of being able to persuade the M.T.A. to move it.

“The city is desperate for bus garages,” said Mike Davies, an architect on the project, at a community meeting on Nov. 14. “It is not something we are counting on.”

Another reason to move the hotel from 42nd Street has to do with neighborhood character: The locals aren’t eager to see a hotel along the old Deuce.

“The stretch of 42nd Street west of Eighth Avenue has become solidly residential—everything that has been built and those that are in the pipeline,” said Anthony Borelli, district manager for Community Board 4. “We believe that 34th Street is the future of the expanded corridor. That corridor is going to have a lot more density than is already there.”

The new designers are talking about greatly improving one of the numerous architectural mistakes dotting the city’s landscape—although when it was built in 1986, its architect, I.M. Pei, was quite a star. But they’re hampered by the fact that, instead of starting anew, they’ll be adding another 340,000 square feet to a long shed that blocks off the water for five blocks and is a half-mile from the subway. At the Nov. 14 public meeting, Christopher Harrison, the founder of a dance troupe with a studio nearby, told of how, every day at 4 p.m., hundreds of dazed and confused conventioneers pour west, dragging suitcases of documents, arms flailing, from 11th to 10th and finally to Ninth Avenue, hoping to find a cab somewhere.

Chuck Lauster, an architect who worked on a plan by the Newman Real Estate Institute, housed at Baruch College, was also at the meeting. He argued that the Newman plan—which would turn Javits horizontally between 30th and 34th streets, where the stadium was supposed to go—would open up the Hudson River waterfront and connect the center to the city. (The Newman plan has been dismissed as too costly.)

“Architect to architect, do you really think it is better from an urban-planning perspective not to do east-west, but to build north-south and block more waterfront?” he asked.

The assembled architects laughed, but wouldn’t answer the question.

[Lecom]

The Convention Center planners and the government are so dumb. How could they propose a hotel without even notifying the property's owner? I can feel for Silverstein on this one.

I don't know which one I'm rooting for. The hotel would definitely be taller and add more prestige to the area than yet another condo tower; however, I'd take 53 stories any day and besides, if they build the tower they'd probably just have to build the hotel somewhere else, which means two towers instead of one.

Still, the state is so dumb...

[Jularc]

I hope they built the new residentail tower and built the Hotel elsewhere. But I hope it does not look like Riverplace 1.

[Lecom]

I agree, Riverplace 1 is mediocre and belongs on the Upper East Side.

[NYguy]

Here's one of the "generic" renderings of the hotel tower behind Riverplace I ...

http://www.javitscenter.com/images/JAVITS_EXPANSION/mcCann2.jpg



But the hotel could easily be moved elsewhere along 11th Avenue and be near the Convention Center. Also, its not clear that this would be the only large hotel in the area, as other developers are making the dash to the Westside...(from the westside thread)


NY POST

WEST SIDE GLORY
By JENNIFER GOULD KEIL

April 17, 2005 -- The dilapidated West Side is turning into the city's new Gold Coast.

With 36.6 million square feet of potential commercial and residential space, the area between 30th Street and 43rd Street, west of 8th Avenue, is fast becoming some of the most desired real estate in the city — with investors, developers and real estate brokers all staking their claims.

Steve Witkoff, of the Witkoff Group, is one buyer interested in the Imperatore family's holdings. He bought about 1 million square feet — for about $120 per buildable square foot — from a partnership controlled by the Imperatore family.

Sources say he has begun the design phase for a 1,000 room hotel that would be directly across from the Javits Center.


A little more on that...

NY TIMES

No Stadium, No Problem: West Side Is Getting Hot

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
June 12, 2005

Residential developers have already begun snapping up properties in the neighborhood. High-rise apartment towers are planned for several important intersections. Land prices there have more than doubled, a 1,500-room hotel is proposed for 11th Avenue, and even some commercial builders are making plans.

Steven C. Witkoff of the Witkoff Group is in the process of buying a large parcel across 11th Avenue from the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center, between 36 and 37th Streets, where he wants to build a 1,500-room hotel on a platform over the Amtrak railroad tracks.

[NYguy]

NY OBSERVER

Witkoff, Moinian Spar In Javits Hotel Battle

By Matthew Schuerman


Robert Boyle, the chairman of the operating corporation that runs the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center, was the last of the true believers, holding tenaciously to the idea that 42nd Street deserved a hotel at its western end. When, during the inconspicuous week between Christmas and New Year’s Day, Governor George Pataki unceremoniously replaced Mr. Boyle with someone else, the dream of connecting drab conventioneers to the glamour of Theater Row apparently disappeared forever.

In the short run, Mr. Boyle’s departure has brought into keener focus a competition between two prominent New York developers, Steven Witkoff and Joseph Moinian, to lure the hotel—and at least some of the $150 million in state funds set aside for it—to properties they control on the east side of 11th Avenue in the 30’s, across the street from the Javits Center.

In the long run, it has opened up a free-for-all on the overall design of the convention center’s expansion, including consideration of a plan by the developer Douglas Durst.

The expansion as now envisioned is a relic of Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s Olympic dreams, designed to ooze northward while a football stadium that could double as a convention auditorium would be attached by a tunnel to the south. But the Javits Center, which now stretches from 34th to 39th streets between 11th Avenue and the West Side Highway, would only be able to grow one block northward without hitting a city bus garage at 40th Street. The M.T.A. isn’t keen on moving, so conventioneers would have to walk another block to reach the hotel, originally conceived for a plot between 41st and 42nd streets owned by Ground Zero re-macher Larry Silverstein.

Mr. Silverstein never showed much interest in building a hotel, however. Mr. Witkoff, by contrast, has.

The former real-estate attorney, who owns the Woolworth Building and a number of other properties, showed up himself shortly before the holidays to meet with members of the local community board—an activity many other developers leave to consultants.

There, on the sixth floor of the B.M.W. building on West 57th Street, he presented schematic designs for the hotel, which would occupy not just his parcel between 36th and 37th streets but also a concrete plaza to the south controlled by the state agency that is in charge of the Javits expansion.

“It looked a little like the U.N. building, a big north-south slab,” said Anna Levin, co-chair of Community Board 4’s land-use committee for Clinton/Hell’s Kitchen. “There is a bridge over 36th Street, and the hotel entrance would be under the bridge.”

The resemblance to the United Nations tower didn’t go over well, according to Ms. Levin, but the idea of putting the hotel somewhere along 11th Avenue instead of on 42nd Street did. That location would bring the center of gravity closer to 34th Street, which many community residents believe will serve as the axis along which westward development will occur, spurred by a major renovation of the Farley Post Office into a train station. Charles Gargano, the Governor’s top economic aide and chairman of the New York Convention Center Development Corporation, which is now in charge of the expansion, also appears to favor a hotel on 11th Avenue.

Mr. Witkoff didn’t respond to a request for comment. His company’s Web site prides itself on seeing “value where others have perceived insurmountable obstacles”—which may explain why, in an era when hotels like the Plaza are being turned into condominiums, Mr. Witkoff believes that a hotel is still a worthwhile endeavor. It remains to be seen what sort of operating and ownership arrangement would be worked out between his company and the state.
......................................................................

p2

Mr. Moinian, who is developing a number of apartment towers on West 42nd Street, hasn’t been as public about his interest in using the property as a hotel. A spokeswoman said in an e-mail: “This must be complete speculation, as there are no plans as of yet for the property.” The parcel, however, was mentioned as one of two “preferred” locations for the hotel in a memo that surfaced at a hearing on the convention center before a State Assembly committee; the other location was Mr. Witkoff’s property.

It was at that hearing, which was called by Assembly member Richard Brodsky, chairman of the Assembly’s Committee on Corporations, Authorities and Commissions, that Mr. Boyle made a last stand for the 42nd Street design, arguing that the location would attract non-convention guests as well. He also criticized the recent proposal to put in a marshalling yard for exhibitor deliveries.

Mr. Boyle had been in charge of coming up with the first scheme for the expansion, which was in place in December 2004, when the state legislature voted to approve $1.4 billion toward the project.

Mr. Boyle, who was on vacation and unavailable for comment, had been a longtime foot soldier for Governor Pataki, for a spell serving as executive director of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. Shortly after the Dec. 14 hearing, he was replaced by Joseph Spinnato, the president of the Hotel Association of New York City. Mr. Brodsky, who is running for State Attorney General, called the move “interference” by the Governor in the workings of what was supposed to be an independent agency running the convention center. A Pataki aide dismissed the charge, saying that Mr. Boyle had been replaced because his term was up and he had become a registered lobbyist in the meantime.

Mr. Brodsky said the state had done precious little in the past year to move the convention-center expansion along, but he said the present juncture was an opportunity to revisit the site plan entirely. After all, the Jets football team and the Olympics for which the stadium would have been built have since gone elsewhere.

“Speed was desirable; now intelligence is,” Mr. Brodsky said. “If we could have a shovel in the ground by January, I might not say that—but we have the rare opportunity to give the plan some thought, and we should do that.”

At the hearing, Mr. Gargano defended the pace of the planning process, saying that the development corporation had taken important preliminary steps over the past year. Before he took over from Mr. Boyle’s agency, there was just “a sketchy concept that showed no evidence of architectural detail,” he said. State officials have generally stuck to that sketchy concept, however, because of the time it took to draw up. Over the past year, Mr. Gargano’s agency invested even more time. That time was spent on steps, however—staffing the agency and selecting the architects—that would need to be finished no matter how or where the expansion would go.

Now, under considerable pressure from Mr. Brodsky, Mr. Gargano is taking a look at other designs that were not restricted—unlike the present one—by the hypothetical football stadium. Whether these designs will convince Mr. Gargano to tear up the plans that have been drawn and start from scratch remains to be seen. (The architectural team was supposed to have a proposal ready by the end of this month.)

The Convention Center Operating Corporation—the one that Mr. Boyle left—met recently with representatives of a team advocating a southern expansion. This design, conceived in part by Mr. Durst and architect Meta Brunzema, would extend the Javits Center south to 30th Street and build a platform over the M.T.A.’s western rail yards where the stadium once would have gone. In addition to a Javits Center annex, the platform would be covered by offices, apartments and a park on this four-block section. The idea is to inspire the sort of development that a convention center in itself would never bring.

..........................................................................

p3

“They made it clear that [Mr.] Gargano was calling the shots,” an individual familiar with the meeting said. “He thinks it’s clear that any changes now will only delay it further.”

Another plan that Mr. Gargano will be considering is being advocated by Henry Wollman, the director of the Steven L. Newman Real Estate Institute at Baruch College. That plan, called “The Flip,” would do away with the present Javits Center entirely while building a new one in an east-west orientation, stretching between 30th and 34th streets from the West Side Highway to 10th Avenue. Mr. Gargano’s office confirmed that a meeting with Mr. Wollman was imminent.

That alternative has also received community support because it opens up the public’s access to the Hudson River in a way that the present Javits—a five-block-long barracks of glass and concrete—does not. It would be much costlier, though Mr. Brodsky argues only in the short term.

“As I understand it, it would free up all that property up and down the river that would be sold to a developer for various uses—and in the meantime, while it was being built, it would not interfere with the operations of the convention center at all.”

[NYguy]

He (Witkoff) presented schematic designs for the hotel, which would occupy not just his parcel between 36th and 37th streets but also a concrete plaza to the south controlled by the state agency that is in charge of the Javits expansion.

“It looked a little like the U.N. building, a big north-south slab,” said Anna Levin, co-chair of Community Board 4’s land-use committee for Clinton/Hell’s Kitchen. “There is a bridge over 36th Street, and the hotel entrance would be under the bridge.”

The resemblance to the United Nations tower didn’t go over well, according to Ms. Levin, but the idea of putting the hotel somewhere along 11th Avenue instead of on 42nd Street did.

I'm very interested in seeing a rendering of that particular proposal.

[GFSNYC]

It doesn't seem like it would be too hard to imagine, the UN is on the waterfront, the hotel is on the waterfront. And while the UN is elegant, it was designed more then half a century ago, nothing innovative or interesting there IMO.

What is interesting I think is the idea of making the convention center in an East-West orientation, it sounds like a good idea, it does open up the waterfront, and makes the convention center more accessable while freeing up waterfront real-estate. A convention center taking up real-estate so far to the west just doesn't seem right and might've been a mistake made a long time ago; which now needs to be remedied by plans of putting pedestrian bridges, tunnels, and extending the 7 train to make it more accessable. While it may be more costly, I say, start from scratch...

[JACKinBeantown]

I seem to remember seeing plans for the second residential tower several years ago to be a similar design to RiverPlace I. Whether or not those plans have changed, I don't know.

[NYguy]

It doesn't seem like it would be too hard to imagine, the UN is on the waterfront, the hotel is on the waterfront. And while the UN is elegant, it was designed more then half a century ago, nothing innovative or interesting there IMO....


It won't actually be on the waterfront. They were saying it resembled the UN "a little" for its shape and orientation. Not enough info to judge a design we haven't seen.

[GFSNYC]

But still.....! ;)

As it stands now, that area is a perfect for hotels, especially high-end 5 star ones. Unobstructed views of Midtown, waterfront views and some JC, within walking distance to all those Times Square tourist traps, and a nice strip of restaurants north in the Hell's Kitchen (Clinton) area.

Residential units should also do very well there despite not having the greatest transportation access. Honestly, I think the idea of having a modern-trolley along 42nd and making it pedestrian only will greatly improve the east-west connection, and benefit the more underdeveloped west side.

Which segways into officespace, which would benefit greatly from the new Moyinahan Station, as well as (to a lesser degree) the ARC plan to bring NJ trains into Grand Central.

So you've got midtown access, you've got the tourist traps, nice views, and a convention center, and new zoning how is there not full-on support for atleast a handful of major hotel developments???

[NYguy]

Residential units should also do very well there despite not having the greatest transportation access. Honestly, I think the idea of having a modern-trolley along 42nd and making it pedestrian only will greatly improve the east-west connection, and benefit the more underdeveloped west side. Which segways into officespace, which would benefit greatly from the new Moyinahan Station, as well as (to a lesser degree) the ARC plan to bring NJ trains into Grand Central.

So you've got midtown access, you've got the tourist traps, nice views, and a convention center, and new zoning how is there not full-on support for atleast a handful of major hotel developments???

There are hotels planned for the area. The rezoning is fairly new and its going to take a little time before the convention expansion and hotel construction gets underway.

Not to get off topic, the the group Vision 42 has been advocating a modern trolley for 42nd...

http://vision42.org/

http://vision42.org/_img/gallery_plaza.jpg


http://vision42.org/_img/gallery_timessq2.jpg


http://vision42.org/_img/gallery_bryantrail.jpg


http://vision42.org/_img/gallery_grandcentral.jpg

[NYguy]

Here's the older rendering of Silverstein's tower...

http://silversteinproperties.com/images/2rpelevsml%20copy.jpg

[CarlosV]

wow Massive!!

[Spooky873]

rattlesnake building

[NYguy]

A little update on the hotel...


Empire State Development Corp. Chairman Charles A. Gargano praised the new Master Site Plan and Concept Design for the first phase of an expanded Jacob K. Javits Convention Center presented today to the New York Convention Center Development Corp.

Highlights also include a new 100 foot high multi-block glass enclosed entry and concourse, providing a new tree-lined access along 11th Avenue from 34th Street to 40th and establishing the new image of the Javits Center. The plan also creates a new park area at 11th Avenue between 39th and 40th Streets and leaves 40th Street open to pedestrian access from the adjacent waterfront and ferry terminal.

The New Convention Center Headquarters Hotel is proposed to be situated directly across 11th Avenue on the present Javits Plaza between 35th Street and 36th Street.

[NYguy]

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/55233116/original.jpg

[NYguy]

A little more on the hotel..(posted at wirednewyork.com)


CONVENTION CENTER MARSHALL PLAN

Peter Slatin

.......at the north end of the project, another building will be built between 39th and 40th streets that will be the marshalling and security hub through which all truck traffic must pass before being deployed to existing and new loading docks. This building, which Kaplan describes as the "workhorse" of the complex, will be set back 190from street 190 feet; a small park in front is intended to lead to cafes and retail within the colonnade.

The CCDC, aided by its owner's rep, Tishman Construction, is expected to come out with two Requests for Proposals critical to the project: the first, likely in the second quarter of the year, will be for the development of a 1,000 to 1,500-room convention hotel on a site across 11th Avenue between 35th and 36th streets. Kaplan says the hotel could also support two stacked 20,000-square-foot ballrooms; conventioneers will be able to travel between the hotel and the center through an existing below-grade tunnel.

The state values the land at $150 million, and will turn it over to a developer at a nominal sum on a ground lease; the lessee will no doubt hope to win tax relief or other incentives from New York City.

[NYguy]

Although it remains to be seen which developer actually gets to build the
hotel, it appears Witkoff does have his supporters in the district...

(letter of support from CB4)


CITY OF NEW YORK
MANHATTAN COMMUNITY BOARD No. 4
330 West 42nd Street, 26th floor New York, NY 10036
tel: 212-736-4536 fax: 212-947-9512
www.ManhattanCB4.org


January 5, 2006
Re: Convention Center Hotel

Dear Messrs. Gargano, Petralia, and Doctoroff and Ms. Burden:

At the December 14, 2005 meeting of the Board’s Clinton/Hell’s Kitchen Land
Use Committee Steve Witkoff of the Witkoff Group and Ted Brumleve of
Brennan Beer Gorman Architects presented their preliminary proposal for
construction of a convention center hotel on Eleventh Avenue between 35th
and 37th Streets.

Although the Witkoff Group proposal presents several features
that are difficult for the board to support, it illustrates that a location closer
to 34th Street would be vastly superior for a convention center hotel than
the site at 42nd Street and Eleventh Avenue.

The Witkoff Group has recently purchased several properties in the Hudson
Yards Large Scale Plan Subdistrict, including the western end of block 708,
on Eleventh Avenue between 36th and 37th Streets, immediately across the
street from the main entrance of the current Javits Convention Center. This
location offers many advantages over the site previously discussed for
location of the convention center hotel, which is the eastern end of block
1089, five blocks to the north at 42nd Street and Eleventh Avenue (the
Silverstein site):

• The Silverstein site would, in all likelihood, have to be acquired by
condemnation, and developed with public funds, while the Witkoff site is
immediately available for development with significant private financing.

• A convention center hotel on the Silverstein site could not be connected to
the convention center until the MTA’s Quill Bus Garage is relocated and Phase
II of the Javits expansion plan is completed, both of which seem increasingly
less likely to occur. A convention center hotel on the Witkoff Group site
could be immediately connected to the heart of the convention center, with
a connection under Eleventh Avenue at 36th Street, and could serve the
expanded convention center regardless of whether the expansion occurs to
the north, as currently proposed, or to the south, as this Board and many
others believe is preferred.

• The 42nd Street corridor surrounding the Silverstein site is
developing nicely on its own, with large residential projects underway that
are consistent with the underlying zoning. Indeed, the Silverstein site is
currently being prepared by its owner for development as a residential tower,
making condemnation for a hotel problematic from a policy perspective and
likely to be very expensive in any event.

In contrast, a convention center hotel on the Witkoff site could be used to
help trigger commercial development in the portion of Hudson Yards where
development is necessary in order for the financial expectations for the
Hudson Yards plan to be realized.

The Witkoff Group proposal includes development also on block
707 to the south, on the concrete open space between 35th and 36th
Streets that is sometimes familiarly referred to as Stonehenge Park. The
hotel would bridge over 36th Street and rise approximately 47 stories or 545
feet. 36th Street would remain open to vehicles and pedestrians, but the
building would otherwise be a two-block long slab from 35th to 37st Streets,
creating a visual barricade along 36th Street, and turning 36th Street into a
tunnel.

This aspect of the proposal is seriously problematic for this Board, as it is
contrary to planning principles we have supported in the past,
such as respecting the grid system and maintaining visual and physical
access to the waterfront. On the other hand, the Witkoff Group proposes
that the new building would be “green,” built to LEEDs gold
rating standards. We welcome such a commitment, and hope that it will
inspire other private developers in the area to do the same.

As its nickname implies, Stonehenge Park is now unattractive and nderutilized
open space. While it is not mapped as park or open space, we believe it is
publicly owned.

The site has been alternatively identified as expansion space for the
convention center (in the 2004 Javits expansion plans, confirmed by the 2004
Javits legislation) or a private commercial development site (in the City’s
Preferred Direction for Hudson Yards, which was the basis for the Hudson
Yards rezoning). This Board has no opposition in concept to development
of a convention center hotel on this site, but every effort must be made to
include high-quality public open space in any development scenario.

While we have heard rumors of other convention center hotel
proposals, the Witkoff Group’s is the only proposal that has been presented
to us. We would welcome the opportunity to consider other proposals. It is
premature for us to endorse any individual proposal, but we are grateful to
the Witkoff Group for having consulted the community so early in the process
, and we believe their proposal confirms the advantages of
locating the hotel in closer proximity to the convention center. We encourage
you to give the Witkoff Group proposal serious consideration.

Sincerely,
J. Lee Compton
Chair Manhattan Community Board No. 4
Anna Hayes Levin
Co-Chair Clinton/Hell’s Kitchen Land Use Committee
Simone Sindin
Co-Chair Clinton/Hell’s Kitchen Land Use Committee
cc: Local elected officials
Steve Witkoff, The Witkoff Group, 220 E. 42nd St., 10017

[NYguy]

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/55233116/medium.jpg

We now know that the hotel will go on this site (35-36th), just south of the Witkoff
property. Witkoff's plan was to use this site and his own. We'll now
have to wait and see just who and what develops from the latest plan. If
Witkoff does prevail, his plan will have to be altered. And it sounds like it
needs to be...

The Witkoff Group proposal includes development also on
block 707 to the south, on the concrete open space between 35th and 36th
Streets that is sometimes familiarly referred to as Stonehenge Park. The
hotel would bridge over 36th Street and rise approximately 47 stories or 545
feet. 36th Street would remain open to vehicles and pedestrians, but the
building would otherwise be a two-block long slab from 35th to 37st Streets,
creating a visual barricade along 36th Street, and turning 36th Street into a
tunnel.

While we have heard rumors of other convention center hotel proposals, the
Witkoff Group’s is the only proposal that has been presented to us. We would
welcome the opportunity to consider other proposals. It is premature for us
to endorse any individual proposal, but we are grateful to the Witkoff Group
for having consulted the community so early in the process , and we believe
their proposal confirms the advantages of locating the hotel in closer
proximity to the convention center. We encourage you to give the Witkoff
Group proposal serious consideration.

It really does sound like the UN.

[NYguy]

Here's the older rendering of Silverstein's tower...

http://silversteinproperties.com/images/2rpelevsml%20copy.jpg

Since Larry Silverstein is moving ahead with his tower, we'll make this the Riverplace II thread...


FEBRUARY 5, 2006

No peek inside yet...
(that's 625 W. 42nd under construction in the background)

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/55773346/medium.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/55773346/large.jpg

[Spooky873]

thats a cute little cluster

awwwwwwwwww

[NYguy]

Riverplace II will be taller than both of the two towers pictured.

[Spooky873]

it looks like a rattlesnake

[NYguy]

With all of the new apartment towers going up in the area, I thought we'd include this one...

http://silversteinproperties.com/images/mid_nav/leasing/two_river_place.jpg

Two River Place

Opening in 2009, this new sister building to One River Place will offer 882 residential apartments on West 42nd Street at 11th Avenue.

It will rise on this site (behind the construction barrier)

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/66283952/medium.jpg_http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/66283982/medium.jpg

[NYguy]

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/66404026/original.jpg

Seems Silverstein will get his "Twin Towers"...

[Jularc]

I really like these guys!

[JACKinBeantown]

Slightly more than glass boxes. I guess they'll do.

[NYguy]

I really like these guys!

Those towers look tall enough to rival Time Warner Center, if not taller...

[BayRidgeFever]

I count 60 stories....more likely 600-650 feet

[TREPYE]

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/66404026/original.jpg

Seems Silverstein will get his "Twin Towers"...

These things are pretty hideous but they go along well with the terrible architecture of the far west side of 42nd st.

[CoolCzech]

There are hotels planned for the area. The rezoning is fairly new and its going to take a little time before the convention expansion and hotel construction gets underway.

Not to get off topic, the the group Vision 42 has been advocating a modern trolley for 42nd...

http://vision42.org/

http://vision42.org/_img/gallery_plaza.jpg


http://vision42.org/_img/gallery_timessq2.jpg


http://vision42.org/_img/gallery_bryantrail.jpg


http://vision42.org/_img/gallery_grandcentral.jpg

Oh, come on: a monorail running down 42nd Street? With the kind of crowds that slow car traffic there?? File this under "The New York That Never Was."

[NYguy]

Oh, come on: a monorail running down 42nd Street? With the kind of crowds that slow car traffic there?? File this under "The New York That Never Was."

That plan was specifically for the crowds that will eventually overwhelm 42nd street when all of the new office and residential towers are up and open. There would be no car traffic freeing up more space for pedestrians.

[NYguy]

These things are pretty hideous but they go along well with the terrible architecture of the far west side of 42nd st.

I don't find it so terrible. In fact, I think its among the best residential stuff in Manhattan..


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/66404026/original.jpg_http://i.pbase.com/o4/55/435155/1/66357416.nKcQ9ISb.605W42ndSt.JPG


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/66283952/medium.jpg_http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/66283982/medium.jpg

This view will be changed by the other 3 massive towers.

[Jularc]

^ Same here. I think it is a BIG improvement from what was there before. Keep these new big towers coming along please.

[StatenIslander237]

I think that a modern trolley might be a good idea considering the increasing crowds which flock to the street every year, however is it exactly smart to completely block off a major thoroughfare, and one of Manhattan's few cross-streets which run both ways, from car traffic? I mean it is New York. If it didn't block the whole street, or perhaps was elevated, the concept might be more realistic. ;)

[hoosier]

The tram idea is very innovative ans should be given heavy consideration. At the very least, the city is going to have to make West 42nd Street more pedestrian friendly. When all of the future residents move into the area, car traffic will be unbearable unless preventive measures are taken.

[Lecom]

Nice fresh set of towers. Nothing too special but the height is not too shabby, and much better design than the cruise liner-shaped crap what will go up across the street next to the Orion.

I'm glad Silverstein won over this one, since now we'll be getting these AND the hotel, which is bound to happen at some site in either scenario.

[Scruffy]

those towers seem a bit large given the size of the lot. the west tower is going to have to be pushed right up flush to Riverplace 1. I have pics of the lot too. i'll post them tomorrow. its just a big hole right now. but a clean hole unlike 440 west 42nd which is a pond or 42nd and 8th which is a swampy jungle

[Lecom]

its just a big hole right now. but a clean hole unlike 440 west 42nd which is a pond or 42nd and 8th which is a swampy jungle
That is the Great Desert of 42nd Street, directly to the west of Lake Vornado and Times Square Plaza Jungle, and a few miles north of the Ground Zero Great Canyon.

Enjoy the natural habitats of New York City.

[Scruffy]

a photo tour must be made

[Lecom]

a photo tour must be made
Damnit, I would've joined you on that brother, cause the bus terminal is RIGHT in that area, as you know. Oh well, I shall return to New York sometime. Now go and get em natural wonders on camera before they actually do something with them.

[NYguy]

I'm glad Silverstein won over this one, since now we'll be getting these AND the hotel, which is bound to happen at some site in either scenario.

The hotel has been moved down a few blocks to 35th Street. No designs released yet.

[BANKofMANHATTAN]

Here's one of the "generic" renderings of the hotel tower behind Riverplace I ...

http://www.javitscenter.com/images/JAVITS_EXPANSION/mcCann2.jpg



But the hotel could easily be moved elsewhere along 11th Avenue and be near the Convention Center. Also, its not clear that this would be the only large hotel in the area, as other developers are making the dash to the Westside...(from the westside thread)





A little more on that...


What is the tall tapered tower to the right in the rendering?

[thenewsupastar]

any one seen the rendering of the Remy going up in Chelsea? it's one of my favorites under construction.

http://i.pbase.com/o4/55/435155/1/55386664.Remy.JPG

[Scruffy]

What is the tall tapered tower to the right in the rendering?

that was going to be an international broadcast center for the 2012 olympics. but since we didn't get it, that tower is a memory

[NYguy]

What is the tall tapered tower to the right in the rendering?

Not an actual designed tower, just a generic rendering of one of the large towers planned for that stretch of the westside near the convention center.

Another look at those towers:

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/22989677/medium.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/22989737/medium.jpg

[Scruffy]

NY GUY is right. The IBC had a curved top with dual spires.

[NYguy]

NY GUY is right. The IBC had a curved top with dual spires.

http://www.newyorkgames.org/files/images/vibc.jpg

[BANKofMANHATTAN]

Thanks guys!

[Scruffy]

http://www.newyorkgames.org/files/images/vibc.jpg

there you go. wow man, you are really on top of your renders!

[Lecom]

wowm its a tower

[NYguy]

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/66404026/original.jpg

Seems Silverstein will get his "Twin Towers"...


More on Silverstein's new twin towers from an article in today's Daily News:

On the corner of 11th Ave., World Trade Center leaseholder Larry Silverstein has dug up and removed 41,000 cubic yards of contaminated soil. His cleanup project should be done next month, said Lori O'Connell, a state Department of Environmental Conservation spokeswoman.

In December, he'll start foundation work for 57-story twin towers with a total of 1,350 rental apartments, said his spokesman Bud Perrone. They'll be completed in 2009.

Great news.

[hoosier]

Good to read that these two will be underway soon.

[NYguy]

Good to read that these two will be underway soon.

And completed before any of his World Trade Center towers. Yet these buildings are under the radar.

[NYguy]

NY Post

LARRY'S NEW PLAN
SILVERSTEIN PLOTS WEST SIDE TOWERS

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11082006/photos/biz042a.jpg
SILVER DOLLARS: Larry Silverstein and his daughter, Lisa, are planning a huge $917.6 million pair of apartment towers in Midtown.


http://www.nypost.com/img/cols/loisweiss_btb.jpg

November 8, 2006

LARRY Silverstein will soon be developing another set of twin towers.

This time, however, the project, worth nearly $1 billion, will not rise from the World Trade Center site downtown but instead farther north at his River Place site between 41st and 42nd streets near the Javits Convention Center.

Located exactly at 600 W. 42nd St., Silverstein's $917.6 million project will involve constructing a common base that will serve as the foundation for two 57-story towers.

Inside will be 1,157 residential units, 18,277 feet of commercial space and a 194-car underground garage.

A Silverstein spokesperson declined to comment.

Silverstein is applying to use $656 million in Multi-Family Housing Revenue Bonds from the New York State Housing Finance Agency in return for offering 20 percent of the housing units to lower income families.

His daughter, Lisa Silverstein, has been overseeing this development for many years.

A snaking tower with Hudson River and city views was previously planned for the most westerly portion of the site, but development got held up by Gov. George Pataki, who was leaning on Silverstein to make the land the site of an official Javits Center hotel.

Condemnation plans for a sky bridge over 41st Street that was to connect to a new hotel to an expanded Javits Center had begun but weren't finished in part because the additional expansion of the convention center has run into roadblocks.

Chief among them is figuring out where to relocate an MTA bus garage that currently takes up the block between 40th and 41st street.

[BINARY SYSTEM]

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/66404026/original.jpg
If thats the Atelier tower next to the Silversteins twins , thn these towers will be about 250 meters tall. Atelier is 145.7 meters tall and these look double that (do the math). Add them to the list of scrapers in midtown being developed. :skyscraper: LOL

[Busy Bee]

^That's just simple perspective making them look that much taller than Atelier. I'm guessing these will come in at over 600ft, -200m.

But they will have amazing presence.

[BINARY SYSTEM]

I don't think thats perspective......they are taller than The Atelier, maybe 250 meters...still nice.

[NYguy]

They are taller than the Atelier, but about the same height as it's future neighbor, also 57-stories...
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=114791

[NYguy]

On curbed.com they say there's machinery at work on the site now...

http://www.curbed.com/2006_12_42nd-thumb.jpg


Sounds pretty accurate...

In December, he'll start foundation work for 57-story twin towers

[JACKinBeantown]

At 600 feet they'll be the tallest things in the immediate neighborhood. The next building that height is the Orion, many blocks away.

[Fabb]

I like those twins. The glassy top gives them class.

[Lecom]

Wow, Larry actually looks happy on there.

[NYguy]

Trump's got his kids involved, so does Larry.

It will be interesting this time next year to look at all of the skyscrapers rising up along that stretch. Can't wait to start snappin photos...:yes:

[hoosier]

Trump's got his kids involved, so does Larry.

It will be interesting this time next year to look at all of the skyscrapers rising up along that stretch. Can't wait to start snappin photos...:yes:

I look forward to seeing them.:yes:

[NYguy]

It'll almost be like watching Time Warner Center go up again...

[Antares41]

I think this may also be a candidate for move to highrise construction.

[Antares41]

Seems like foundation work is well underway per NYC DOB:

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobDetailsServlet?requestid=3&allisn=0001316742

Still listed anywhere from 57 to 59 floors and old height of 522ft.

[kazpmk]

I know this is probably a tough question, but do you think the foundation work began in 2006 or 2007??? (for 2006USA construction highrise list)

[Antares41]

I know this is probably a tough question, but do you think the foundation work began in 2006 or 2007??? (for 2006USA construction highrise list)

Well the permit was filed on 12/06/2006. NYguy's photo showed equipment present on 12/12/2006. So I say strong evidence that pile work begun before the end of 2006.

[NYguy]

^ Yeah, it began last year.

(Observer.......Posted by The Real Estate on January 8, 2007 )

Silverstein Adds "Maids' Quarters" to 42nd Street Towers

By Matthew Schuerman

Larry Silverstein wants to add a 12-story, 83-unit, low-income rental building on West 42nd Street that will let him add an extra 10 stories or so on his planned River Place II next-door.

The low-income building, for households earning 80 percent of the area median income, gives Mr. Silverstein a 20 percent zoning bonus, enabling two 57-story towers at 600 West 42nd Street. The affordable-housing building comes in addition to 235 low-income units proposed for the high-rise towers, which will make Mr. Silverstein eligible for cheap state financing and another zoning bonus that he can then sell to other developers nearby.

Community Board 4, however, has asked the city to block the zoning bonus in large part because the entrance to the low-income building is on the 41st Street side, which is fairly bereft of anything interesting other than a bus garage.

"As planned, it will look and feel like the maids' quarters for the rest of the project," the letter, sent last week, said.

The two high-rises, arranged on the north and south sides of the block, will be entered from a plaza in between the two of them, which, in turn, will be reached via sidewalks or driveways accessible from both 41st and 42nd streets. There will also be some retail on the 41st Street side, according to a source familiar with the development.

Silverstein spokesman Dara McQuillan defended the plan, saying in a statement, "We have designed a residential community that will add 318 exquisite apartments for moderate- and low-income residents and families of the community, and we have no doubt that each of the units will be highly sought after."

[antinimby]

:previous: Those community boards are bordering on the absurd.

Aren't these the same people that wanted their neighborhoods to have peace and quiet and are dead set against anything that will have lots of traffic and large crowds?

So wouldn't streets with little streetlife be exactly what they want?

Now they are saying you can't build because the streets aren't interesting enough!

F*ckin' unbelievable!!

[NYguy]

:previous: Those community boards are bordering on the absurd.

Aren't these the same people that wanted their neighborhoods to have peace and quiet and are dead set against anything that will have lots of traffic and large crowds?

Yeah, they can be a bit ridiculous. Remember that 60-story tower that was supposed to go up just a couple of blocks east on 42nd? Well, the board basically "killed" that tower when they came out against plans for the Cirque du Soleil that would be housed in the lower portions. And guess what? Now people are complaining about lack of anything going up there...
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30A11FA3F540C768CDDA80894DF404482

Here's more



(The Real Deal)

Related sued over Hell's Kitchen site

Fred Papert, president of the 42nd Street Development Corporation, has filed a lawsuit against the Related Companies over the developer's construction site at 42nd Street between 10th and Dyer avenues. Hell's Kitchen business owners and residents have been complaining about the site's alleged unsightliness and unsanitary conditions; last year community groups blocked the developer from constructing a 60-story, mixed-use tower on the parcel. Papert is seeking $500,000 in damages, saying the site's conditions damage the neighborhood's prosperity. Related is said to be planning a hotel and residential tower on the land.

You've got to be kidding...:jester:

(Now back to our regular news)...

[Scruffy]

^ Wait is that 440 west 42nd. Lake Related? I didn't know that was cancelled. I mean i hated the design they had planned but damn. They shouldn't be caving into flip flopping knee jerk unhappy with their own lives chronic complainers. douchebags.

[NYguy]

^ Wait is that 440 west 42nd. Lake Related? I didn't know that was cancelled. I mean i hated the design they had planned but damn. They shouldn't be caving into flip flopping knee jerk unhappy with their own lives chronic complainers. douchebags.

Well, it was somewhat cancelled. The developers have been waivering between commercial and residential. Now word is residential again. But it was practically under construction until NIMBYs killed it. Now another group of NIMBYs is suing the developers for not building anything. Unbelievable.

[Scruffy]

the spot is also going to one of the entrances for a new 7 train stop. they have to incorporate that into any design of theirs

[NYguy]

the spot is also going to one of the entrances for a new 7 train stop. they have to incorporate that into any design of theirs

That's another issue. Apparently it has decided that only a "shell" of a station will be built there for now.

[NYguy]

NY Times

High-Rise Architect Sails Proudly in Mainstream

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/02/05/arts/Costas600.jpg

The architect Costas Kondylis, in the sales office of Atelier, with a model of the building, which he designed.


By ROBIN POGREBIN
February 5, 2007


Costas Kondylis certainly doesn’t look like a troublemaker.

In jacket and tie, with slicked-back silver hair, he comes across as a successful architect enjoying the fruits of his 40-year experience in New York — which he is. But he also happens to be the designer of some of the city’s most polarizing projects, including Donald Trump’s various towers, the Plaza Hotel’s renovation and four residential towers in the far West 40s that some architecture aficionados dismiss as dull blots on the skyline.

Mr. Kondylis is clearly not uncomfortable in the middle of controversy. He has established a 185-member office, completed 75 buildings in New York and currently has 15 more in the works. If the architecture profession hasn’t exalted him as much as it has some others, the city’s developers keep hiring him. Again and again and again.

“I did not design museums and philharmonic halls — that’s Frank Gehry territory,” Mr. Kondylis said in a recent interview at his office. “But I always push design, and our buildings were always ahead of the game, and I think now we are in the design mainstream.”

Not everyone considers the mainstream a good place to be. “Things are changing in New York in a positive way,” said the architect Richard Meier, who suggested that Mr. Kondylis’s aesthetic “is sort of where it was, not where it’s going.”

“Costas is a traditional architect for developers who want traditional buildings in New York,” added Mr. Meier, who said he was replaced by Mr. Kondylis on a project near Gracie Mansion because “the developer wanted something traditional and didn’t want a good contemporary building.”

Mr. Kondylis’s clients include several of the city’s major developers, like the Related Companies, Vornado Realty Trust and Forest City Ratner Companies. But his name is perhaps most closely associated with Mr. Trump.

Mr. Kondylis designed the Trump International Hotel and Tower at Columbus Circle, several buildings at Trump Place in the West 60s along the Hudson River, and Trump World Tower near the United Nations, whose 90 stories claim the title of the world’s tallest residential building.

“Costas is an architect with great aesthetic taste who can also draw plans,” Mr. Trump said. “He’s never been given proper credit until recently. He’s starting to get it now.”

While many New Yorkers consider Mr. Trump’s buildings too shiny, too tall or just tasteless, Mr. Kondylis makes no apologies for his association with the developer. “He’s an entrepreneur like all the American entrepreneurs — the Paleys and the Carnegies,” Mr. Kondylis said. “They had guts.”

Yet he acknowledged that he doesn’t like everything Mr. Trump demands. “He wanted a gold building — gold this and gold that,” Mr. Kondylis said of Trump World Tower, which ended up bronze (Mr. Kondylis’s preference). “The only compromise was the way the canopy had to incorporate bronze and the Trump name,” he added. “The way I justify it for myself, it’s the branding of the building. That’s something sometimes you have to deal with. Like designing for Gucci, it’s maintaining a brand.”

Larry A. Silverstein, the developer of the World Trade Center site, enlisted Mr. Kondylis for two buildings on the far West Side. The first, called Riverplace I, on West 42nd Street between 11th and 12th Avenues, has about 900 apartments and was completed in 2001. The other, on 11th Avenue between 41st and 42nd Streets, is under way. In the same neighborhood, for the Moinian Group, Mr. Kondylis designed the Atelier at 635 West 42nd Street and a high-rise tower now being built at 605 West 42nd Street.

“He designs an attractive, buildable, functional building,” Mr. Silverstein said. “If I’m going to do a residential building in New York, the most natural thing in the world is to pick up the phone and call Costas.”

At a time when many high-profile architects are challenging the city’s skyline with unorthodox designs, Mr. Kondylis’s more conventional style can seem like a throwback. But there is still a market for it. “He brings a level of sophistication and elegance to middle-class aspirations,” said Fredric M. Bell, executive director of the New York chapter of the American Institute of Architects. “He’s a compromiser. He’s someone who takes the realities of the marketplace and tries to work around the edges.”

Despite Mr. Kondylis’s financial success, his architecture is often ignored by the critics. An exception was Herbert Muschamp’s review of Trump World Tower in The New York Times: “It punches through the morbid notion that the Midtown skyline should be forever dominated by two Art Deco skyscrapers, the Empire State and Chrysler buildings, as if these cherished icons couldn’t stand the competition.”

Mr. Kondylis remains unfazed by the lack of approbation. “Of course I care,” he said. “I’m very interested in what architects think of my work. But that’s not what guides me. There is a suspicion among developers when you care too much. They think you’re designing for the cover of an architecture magazine.”

The Greek-born Mr. Kondylis came to New York 40 years ago, after working in Switzerland. He grew up a fan of industrial design and showed an early affinity for architecture: as a child, when his parents were building a home in Athens, he would visit the site and give them his opinion. He was enthralled by residential building. “It’s a decision you make early in your life,” he said. “With housing, you have a sense of accomplishing something on a social level. You build neighborhoods.”

While some New Yorkers have complained that his projects cast shadows, bring congestion or clash with the prevailing aesthetic, he said he stands by his designs as vertical neighborhoods.

“I believe in skyscrapers,” he said. “It’s the most environmental form of urban development.”

Mr. Kondylis, however, lives on a low floor of an Upper East Side prewar building and said his apartment was modeled after his image of the architect Mies van der Rohe in his red-and-white-checked wing chair— “warm, sympathetic, cozy.”

“I don’t think the apartment has to make a statement about who I am,” Mr. Kondylis said. “I like it to be soothing to my psyche.”

He has happily embraced his reputation as the Developer’s Architect — designing the maximum square footage with materials that meet the budget. “My concern is to create value for the developer, because they’re my clients,” he said.

Mr. Kondylis said his conscience is clear: While he has made some concessions to developers along the way, he has never sold out.

“Sometimes we have battles,” he said. “Some I win, and some I lose, and some I come out O.K. I can’t think of one building I never want to associate my name with. I push the project to the limit until I feel I’m losing a client. We can’t afford to lose a client.

“We can afford to, but it’s not professional.”

[Scruffy]

good for him. i like the majority of his work. i love trump world tower. though Riverplace 1 is boring from most angles except 1

[NYguy]

FEBRUARY 18, 2007

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/74576668/medium.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/74576668/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/74576683/large.jpg

[antinimby]

I know it's probably an optical illusion, but in the first two photos, River Place I looks like it's bending a little in the midsection there and Atelier looks to be leaning heavily to one side. :hmmm:

[NYguy]

I know it's probably an optical illusion, but in the first two photos, River Place I looks like it's bending a little in the midsection there and Atelier looks to be leaning heavily to one side. :hmmm:

That Silverstein and his tricks...;)

[Jularc]

:yes: I am so excited for these two twins!

[Scruffy]

5/25
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05571.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05572.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05570.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05573.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05574.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05575.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05577.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05578.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05579.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05581.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05582.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05585.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05597.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05598.jpg

And for those who like this kind of thing, Meet Billy.
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05599.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05602.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05603.jpg
He was really helpful in answering all my questions

[BayRidgeFever]

What did you ask him?

They are really working on this one....should be going vertical by the end of summer. Maybe change the title to twin 59 story towers or something.

[Scruffy]

Whats so cool is this image is going to change drastically

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05493.jpg

To the right of atelier will be a taller condo tower and directly in front of that in the foreground of this cluster, twin 59 story towers. awesome cluster

[RandySavage]

^ Thanks for the pic updates on all these NYC threads.

[Jularc]

Oh Billy! :yes: Great updates!

[Antares41]

Whats so cool is this image is going to change drastically

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05493.jpg

To the right of atelier will be a taller condo tower and directly in front of that in the foreground of this cluster, twin 59 story towers. awesome cluster


Nice pics! and I agree we have a nice cluster in the making. I admit to being a bit obsessed with this, but, if the Riverbank West (bldg. on the right behind the sign) is 450ft tall then what is the true total height of the Atelier? I think it probably a little over 500ft including the mechanicals. Well, all the new residentials under construction/proposed will eclipse the height of the Atelier anyway, a welcome thing to us enthusiast.

[Scruffy]

Nice pics! and I agree we have a nice cluster in the making. I admit to being a bit obsessed with this, but, if the Riverbank West (bldg. on the right behind the sign) is 450ft tall then what is the true total height of the Atelier? I think it probably a little over 500ft including the mechanicals. Well, all the new residentials under construction/proposed will eclipse the height of the Atelier anyway, a welcome thing to us enthusiast.

i am the firmest believer that they lied about the height of atelier and it is quite a bit taller than its reported. From the angle of that pic, they are both about the same distance from me so perspective is not really an issue. It has to break 550ft.

[hoosier]

This project has come along quickly. And people say it takes too long to get buildings out of the ground in NYC.:haha:

[Scruffy]

the claim is that atelier is under 500ft. 475 i think. i dont have it in front of me. But just looking at it, it cant be.

and a bonus:
Riverplace 1
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05592.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05565.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05594.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05595.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05604.jpg

[antinimby]

The DOB says 46 stories and 478 feet for the Atelier. No one lies to the DOB. :)

Add another 20 or so feet to that (because the DOB does not count rooftop mechanical floors in their calculations) and the very top of the structure should be around 500 feet. ;)

Btw, there is suppose to be retail space in the Atelier.

When you were there, were you able to see where this space was supposed to be at?
All I can tell is that huge white lobby from your pics.

[JACKinBeantown]

And for those who like this kind of thing, Meet Billy.

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05602.jpg



Comments? (... Carlos?) :)

[Antares41]

The DOB says 46 stories and 478 feet for the Atelier. No one lies to the DOB. :)

Add another 20 or so feet to that (because the DOB does not count rooftop mechanical floors in their calculations) and the very top of the structure should be around 500 feet. ;)


I agree! mechanical/water tower adds another 30 ft to total height. I estimate the bldg. ~ 510 ft tall.

[Scruffy]

Well then that mystery is finally solved. thank you antiN. as for the retail, this is the only coverage i have of the ground floor

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Scruffy66/DSC05593.jpg

[antinimby]

I see it now.

The retail portion looks like it will be right where those two black vehicles are in front of. Thanks.

[Jularc]

Hey Steve, have they taken down that building and that gas station on the south end corner of 11th? South of the street from the Atelier? Any pics? ;)

[Scruffy]

ha. i do have pics. but im not home right now. the gas station is closed but not taken down. the building to the right of it still seems to have some occupants. But the building behind the gas station seems to be in early stages of demolition, the windows have already been removed.

I'll be back after the weekend. have to go shoot a wedding. later