[Cottonwood]

The joys of living in a city with a river!!

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/04/06/1595224/high-water-forces-greenbelt-closure.html

High water forces Greenbelt closure in Southeast Boise
By Cynthia Sewell - csewell@idahostatesman.com
Published: 04/06/11

[Visualize]

Boise whitewater park gets key gift from the J.A. and Kathryn Albertson Foundation

BY CYNTHIA SEWELL - cmsewell@idahostatesman.com
Copyright: © 2011 Idaho Statesman
Published: 04/06/11

By this time next year, river rats should be cavorting in the city’s new whitewater park.

This fall, after river and irrigation canal water levels drop, crews will demolish the aging Thurman Mill diversion dam and replace it with a state-of-the-art computerized diversion dam and two “wave shapers” — features that will provide boaters waves of varying difficulty year-round. Water features also will include in-river drops, chutes and boulder obstacles as well as riverbank seating.

Construction on the first set of planned river features should be complete by spring 2012.

The river recreation park, located upstream of Veterans Memorial Park, is one of the central elements of the city’s new plan for the larger 30th Street area. Other upcoming improvements include a new 30th Street extension and two additional riverside parks — the Esther Simplot and Bernardine Quinn parks.

The new 36th Street footbridge at the whitewater park connects to Garden City’s waterfront district and is already receiving a lot of foot and bike traffic, according to Idaho River Sports co-owner Jo Cassin.

Read more: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/04/06/1594508/boise-whitewater-park-gets-key.html#ixzz1InqNQ9TG

[Cottonwood]

:previous:The Albertsons are awesome, they have done so much for Idaho.

[greenbearcub]

:previous:The Albertsons are awesome, they have done so much for Idaho.

They have done good things for Idaho and some bad things as well. They are good at donating money to parks and such. However, their dealings with the school system and most recently Tom Luna are what I would say not on the up and up. I don't want this to become an argument I just want to say my feelings on them. I feel just saying that they are awsome in general is not the best way to say that what they did for the park and what they have done for other parks is awsome.

I would agree that they have done many things for Idaho. I just get picky, I guess and care when donations have attachments. (not in reference to the white water park but other donations) If this is consider off topic sorry just let me know.

[City Of Trees]

So I noticed today that on the CCDC portion of 8th St, there were signs put up facing northbound traffic that instructed bikes to "obey ped signal".

As someone who bikes that section all the time, I'd like to know what that sign is trying to say. Is it concerning bikes trying to plow through on the sidewalk? Or, since it's only on the northbound (i.e., wrong way side), is it a warning to bikes that do go the wrong way down there (which people do all the time without any problems)? So curious....

[Cottonwood]

They have done good things for Idaho and some bad things as well. They are good at donating money to parks and such. However, their dealings with the school system and most recently Tom Luna are what I would say not on the up and up. I don't want this to become an argument I just want to say my feelings on them. I feel just saying that they are awsome in general is not the best way to say that what they did for the park and what they have done for other parks is awsome.

I would agree that they have done many things for Idaho. I just get picky, I guess and care when donations have attachments. (not in reference to the white water park but other donations) If this is consider off topic sorry just let me know.

As someone who has grown up in Idaho I think they are awesome because I have benefited from the Albertson Foundation as has everyone else who grew up in ID. Albertson's has given so much to education in Idaho, from elementary to higher ed. So in a general way I do really mean they are awesome, maybe a more grown up word would be appropriate:) I think some of Luna's changes are really needed and I don't have any issue if Albertson's was part of any of that.
But yes, lets keep the passionate Luna topic out of this forum from here on out please and keep the discussion about their donation to the WhiteWater Park.

[boisecynic]

So I noticed today that on the CCDC portion of 8th St, there were signs put up facing northbound traffic that instructed bikes to "obey ped signal".

As someone who bikes that section all the time, I'd like to know what that sign is trying to say. Is it concerning bikes trying to plow through on the sidewalk? Or, since it's only on the northbound (i.e., wrong way side), is it a warning to bikes that do go the wrong way down there (which people do all the time without any problems)? So curious....

Are you talking about the Front St Crossing? Southbound on 8th at Front on a bike has to be one of my biggest pet peeves. On the south side the ped ramp isn't wide enough and the curb juts way to the west. It's awkward at best.

Regardless, the 8th St corridor is a major bicycling corridor and as downtown builds out I foresee problems. This is one of the reasons I was so critical of JUMP. The 10th Street corridor should be preserved for bikes and pedestrians just as 8th is. And Broad St to a lesser extent. Few want to ride a bike down 9th or up Capitol or along Front/Myrtle.

[Visualize]

I've said it before, but I think from the river to Bannock, 8th street should be closed to cars completely, bricked over and landscaped similar to the Grove. There is hardly any reason a car needs to go down 8th, as there are no parking garage exit or entrances along it, and only a couple small parking lots that could be accessed through the alley or cross streets until the properties which are already less than desirable are redeveloped. The alleys could also service the buildings for delivery, which I'm sure they already do to an extent. The blocks in downtown are too small to be divided to allow for a strictly pedestrian corridor, 8th is already broken by the Grove, minimally used to the north and south, as well as being central to downtown. I think if done, 8th would continue to transform into the premier social gathering spot and heart of the city.

[City Of Trees]

Are you talking about the Front St Crossing?No, the CCDC portion between Bannock and Main.

I agree with everything else you said, though.

I've said it before, but I think from the river to Bannock, 8th street should be closed to cars completely, bricked over and landscaped similar to the Grove. There is hardly any reason a car needs to go down 8th, as there are no parking garage exit or entrances along it, and only a couple small parking lots that could be accessed through the alley or cross streets until the properties which are already less than desirable are redeveloped. The alleys could also service the buildings for delivery, which I'm sure they already do to an extent. The blocks in downtown are too small to be divided to allow for a strictly pedestrian corridor, 8th is already broken by the Grove, minimally used to the north and south, as well as being central to downtown. I think if done, 8th would continue to transform into the premier social gathering spot and heart of the city.I also agree with this.

[boisecynic]

I've said it before, but I think from the river to Bannock, 8th street should be closed to cars completely, bricked over and landscaped similar to the Grove. There is hardly any reason a car needs to go down 8th, as there are no parking garage exit or entrances along it, and only a couple small parking lots that could be accessed through the alley or cross streets until the properties which are already less than desirable are redeveloped. The alleys could also service the buildings for delivery, which I'm sure they already do to an extent. The blocks in downtown are too small to be divided to allow for a strictly pedestrian corridor, 8th is already broken by the Grove, minimally used to the north and south, as well as being central to downtown. I think if done, 8th would continue to transform into the premier social gathering spot and heart of the city.


Another reason that the 10th Street corridor should be a through route just as 8th is. It would take some of the burden off of 8th. 8th is without a doubt the most successful corridor. Why not copy it?

I'm not sure 8th should be permanently closed. And which section? I could see the section between Bannock and the Grove being closed to cars at certain hours but not permanently. Some of the business owners need to drive their vehicles to their front doors for legitimate business. Parking helps the restaurants too, especially during slow times, i.e., during winter and after the Farmer's Market closes.

South of Myrtle they could narrow the street by making bike lanes curbside segregated with a parking lane outboard of that.

http://streetswiki.wikispaces.com/file/view/physep1.jpg/130104705/physep1.jpg

Here's a better pic of what I'm talking about. I've also proposed this to ACHD officials regarding the 30th St Extension.

http://i.imgur.com/qSBXf.jpg

[Visualize]

Another reason that the 10th Street corridor should be a through route just as 8th is. It would take some of the burden off of 8th. 8th is without a doubt the most successful corridor. Why not copy it?

I'm not sure 8th should be permanently closed. And which section? I could see the section between Bannock and the Grove being closed to cars at certain hours but not permanently. Some of the business owners need to drive their vehicles to their front doors for legitimate business. Parking helps the restaurants too, especially during slow times, i.e., during winter and after the Farmer's Market closes.

South of Myrtle they could narrow the street by making bike lanes curbside segregated with a parking lane outboard of that.

I think 8th will always carry the bulk, as Capital Blvd funnels the Bench right there, as well as a prominent greenbelt pedestrian bridge and the most obvious way to access downtown. Once Pioneer Corridor is completed, and even now, 11th is probably more likely to pick up the slack from how I see it. To me 10th doesn't have a natural flow to get to from the south.

Again, I think 8th should be closed from the Anne Frank Memorial (the river) all the way to Bannock. Yes, some parking will be lost, but a lot will be gained in terms of ambiance. I don't really agree that business owners need to drive right up to the front door. Even if they do, it would probably have to be developed for emergency access, so cars could service them on rare occasion. In San Jose, and I'm sure plenty of other cities, there is a pedestrian corridor stretching multiple blocks. The Paseo de San Antonio below is only available to pedestrians, and has businesses lining almost its entire length. I think this would work even better in Boise due to the pedestrian traffic and the major destinations which would exist at either end and along its length.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m48/visualeyez1983/PaseodeSanAntonio2.png

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m48/visualeyez1983/PaseodeSanAntonio.png

http://www.bing.com/maps/#JnE9LnNhbitqb3NlJTdlc3N0LjAlN2VwZy4xJmJiPTQzLjYxNzI4MDkxMTQ3MzUlN2UtMTE2LjIwMTc1Njc1OTQ4NCU3ZTQzLjYxNTI2MzY0Mjc0ODYlN2UtMTE2LjIwNDE5NTkzMzA1Mg==

I do agree that it could be stressed in winter. Solar heat lamps? :D

I also like the separated bike lane. The problem I see with it could be in terms of safety, and drivers being able to see the fast moving bike riders on the other side of the parked cars when they begin to enter an intersection. This would definitely work well along the 30th St extension where there are going to be a minimal amount of intersections on the west side of the street in relation to its length.

[Sawtooth]

My Beginning of Spring photo thread will be posted in the city photo forum this weekend.






http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/Spring2011/1030.jpg




http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/Spring2011/080-1.jpg

[Boisekid]

Nice pics saw, can't wait for the full thread.

Anyway, I'm sure most of you have heard about the Beef plant closure in Nampa. 522 people out of worrk, and according to the Statesman, that'll raise Canyon County's unemployment 5% from 11.8% to nearly 17%. I'm sure Nampa's unemployment rate will soar above 20%. This is devastating news for the Treasure Valley Economy, and more importantly, those hundreds of families. It'll be quite a while before they all find work i'd imagine. Canyon County and Nampa will now have one of the highest unemployment rates in the Nation.

Pretty awful news, especially when so many things were looking up.

[Sawtooth]

:previous:Thanks Boisekid, the thread has been posted.


Sad news for Nampa, but it's most likely just a hiccup, I saw a report that the wages at that beef plant pay as much as most retail does in Canyon County, and with all of the new retail moving in to the western valley area some of those people should be able to find more employment sooner or later, or a new company may step in and buy the location. I feel all is still looking up, the financial company I work for is hiring 200 new people by the end of the year and the wages are good:tup:

[Cottonwood]

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/04/09/1598605/boise-company-named-safest-in.html

Boise company URS named safest construction company in the U.S.
A national construction group says URS has the industry’s best worker-safety program.
BY AUDREY DUTTON - adutton@idahostatesman.com
Copyright: © 2011 Idaho Statesman
Published: 04/09/11

[Boise Benchman]

Looks like there will be horse racing again @ Les Bois Racetrack...
Pros and Cons probably abound, but I'm glad there will be another entertainment option to the city. Seems odd to have a track just sitting there like it has the last couple years...

[boiseaninexile]

By following a link provided by "urbanguy" in another forum, I was finally able to see some definitive numbers on the Boise-Nampa, ID MSA. I don't recall seeing them posted on here yet. The Boise-Nampa MSA is at 616,561. This puts us well ahead of Spokane; still light-years behind Portland and Seattle.

The numbers are as follows:

"Boise City-Nampa, ID",Metropolitan Statistical Area

2000 Census: 464,840
2010 Census: 616,561
2000-2010 total increase:151,721
2000-2010 percentage increase: 32.63940281

Here is the link for the data:

http://2010.census.gov/news/csv/population_change_metro_micro_areas.csv

On another note, the Statesman had an interesting article about some of the plans in/around the Ten Mile Interchange. It will take some time, but this area is set to explode in the future with the Ten Mile Interchange, future Idaho 16 extension to I-84, etc.. Here is the link:

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/04/13/1603593/road-would-link-nampa-airport.html

[boisecynic]

...
On another note, the Statesman had an interesting article about some of the plans in/around the Ten Mile Interchange. It will take some time, but this area is set to explode in the future with the Ten Mile Interchange, future Idaho 16 extension to I-84, etc.. Here is the link:

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/04/13/1603593/road-would-link-nampa-airport.html

I drove out there on Overland and over the new bridge last weekend and it's amazing. Overland is 5 lanes all the way from Meridian Road to Ten Mile. There's lots of earth moving going on at the south east corner. Looks like it's being primed for a nice big strip mall complex. There's a nice view from up there too.

[Boisekid]

I'll try to find the link and some more info on it, but i know a developer (Brighton Corp??) owns the land in the northeast corner of the interchange and plans quite a few apartments there. Meridian City also has a comprehensive plan for the 10-Mile area. I also wouldn't be surprised to see the new LDS temple near there. I think 10-mile will be the next major north-south route in the valley next to Eagle road. Add in the new freeway that will be nearby and you've got yourself some MAJOR potential

[greenbearcub]

I'll try to find the link and some more info on it, but i know a developer (Brighton Corp??) owns the land in the northeast corner of the interchange and plans quite a few apartments there. Meridian City also has a comprehensive plan for the 10-Mile area. I also wouldn't be surprised to see the new LDS temple near there. I think 10-mile will be the next major north-south route in the valley next to Eagle road. Add in the new freeway that will be nearby and you've got yourself some MAJOR potential

As far as everything I have seen I would say that sounds about right. The Merdian City master plan calls for quite a lot from industrial to High density comercial offices, Mix use areas, Mixed use life center and a possible transit center attached at the rail way up by franklin and ten mile.

And as for the new temple I would say that could be a good guess for the location.

Here is a link to the plan (it is from 2007 so I'm sure somethings have changed) http://www.meridiancity.org/planning.aspx?id=1810 and a link to the future zoning plan. http://www.meridiancity.org/planning.aspx?id=231

[Cottonwood]

http://www.boiseweekly.com/CityDesk/archives/2011/04/13/study-idaho-15th-greenest-state-in-us

Environment Study: Idaho 15th Greenest State in U.S.
Posted by George Prentice on Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 4:00 PM

How "green" is Idaho?

At least according to the 2011 Greenopia environmental ranking of states, Idaho is greener than most. The Gem State came in 15th place (up from last year's 16th).




Here is the link for the entire list:
http://www.greenopia.com/SB/state_search.aspx?category=State&Listpage=0&input=Name-or-product&subcategory=None

[City Of Trees]

The hydropower goes a long way, but there's still a lot of coal energy imported from Wyoming, one of the worst on that list.

I had read before on how Idaho was far and away the biggest water consumer, and I honestly haven't figured out why....

[boisecynic]

In today's segment of "Some heads should roll:"

Two 70/80 foot tall steel and concrete stairways at the Bodo garage need to be removed and replaced.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/04/12/1603305/ccdc-to-replace-stairs-at-boise.html

[jthomps4]

i faintly remember seeing something about our water use too. i thought it said the whole turning a desert into farmland thing is the reason we use so much water

[Boisekid]

More Meridian News, from the latest City Council Meeting:

Public Hearing: MDA 11-002 Meridian Town Center by Meridian CenterCal,
LLC Located at Northeast Corner of E. Fairview and N. Eagle Road
Request: Amend the existing Development Agreement (Instrument
#108131103)to Include an Updated and Expanded Development Plan and
Minor Edits to the Text of the Agreement


The minutes aren't up yet, but it sounds like they may be keeping with the Summer ground breaking target. Also sounds like they may be making it even larger, the original project called for 500,000 sq feet of retail with a price tag of $200 Million. I'll post some of the key news when the minutes are posted.

[isangpogi]

More Meridian News, from the latest City Council Meeting:

Public Hearing: MDA 11-002 Meridian Town Center by Meridian CenterCal,
LLC Located at Northeast Corner of E. Fairview and N. Eagle Road
Request: Amend the existing Development Agreement (Instrument
#108131103)to Include an Updated and Expanded Development Plan and
Minor Edits to the Text of the Agreement


The minutes aren't up yet, but it sounds like they may be keeping with the Summer ground breaking target. Also sounds like they may be making it even larger, the original project called for 500,000 sq feet of retail with a price tag of $200 Million. I'll post some of the key news when the minutes are posted.

Hey yes please keep us updated! I thought this project was shelved for sure. And I love your profile picture boisekid, did you take it?

[el conquistador]

Hey yes please keep us updated! I thought this project was shelved for sure. And I love your profile picture boisekid, did you take it?

Ditto. This is in my neck of the woods so I will be interested to see this thing get started. :)

[BoiseAirport]

Potentially big downtown development news. Could this be the project that fills the downtown hole?

http://www.ktvb.com/news/Could-public-market-fill-the-hole-at-8th-and-Main-119962494.html

My thoughts: It's far better than a hole. Such a project could potentially be a big draw downtown, and it would certainly improve the quality of life downtown with a nice, outdoor marketplace. The big question is, is the prime real estate of 8th and Main really the right place for it? Also, say they can get this project built exactly as they realize it... are there any ways it can be expanded?

Right now I'm mixed... it absolutely is something I want to see built downtown, I'm just not 100% sure the infamous hole is the right place for it. What do you think?

[boi2socal]

Potentially big downtown development news. Could this be the project that fills the downtown hole?

http://www.ktvb.com/news/Could-public-market-fill-the-hole-at-8th-and-Main-119962494.html

My thoughts: It's far better than a hole. Such a project could potentially be a big draw downtown, and it would certainly improve the quality of life downtown with a nice, outdoor marketplace. The big question is, is the prime real estate of 8th and Main really the right place for it? Also, say they can get this project built exactly as they realize it... are there any ways it can be expanded?

Right now I'm mixed... it absolutely is something I want to see built downtown, I'm just not 100% sure the infamous hole is the right place for it. What do you think?

I think this is a perfect solution since 8th St is already such a pedestrian friendly street and this is right in the middle of town. There is still plenty of land for towers in DT Boise.

[Saturnfromboise]

I say HELL no!

[BoiseAirport]

I think this is a perfect solution since 8th St is already such a pedestrian friendly street and this is right in the middle of town. There is still plenty of land for towers in DT Boise.

This tends to go along with my thinking. The more I go to farmer's markets and the more I go to the Grove for the numerous events down there, the more I think a signature tower on that lot could so easily hurt the pedestrian-friendly vibe that makes downtown so great. I'm all for projects that are one of two things -- either beautiful, tall buildings, or things that greatly add to the livability and atmosphere of downtown. I think this project, while not the signature tower many of us have been expecting, more than satisfies the second criterea, and could be a tremendously positive addition to downtown, along with JUMP.

And if a trolley ever got built in that general area, our downtown would have such a lively, energetic pulse... Then add in the urban development projects such as Library Blocks and then the Convention Center which is probably just wishful thinking at this point... but if it were to happen, the atmosphere and the aura would simply be unparalleled amongst cities our size.

But this is just my gut reaction, my feelings could easily change over time.

[Visualize]

This is stupid and will never happen at 8th and Main. Two million dollars is already invested in the foundation, and to do anything less than a tower would just be throwing it all away. Not to mention, last I heard they were selling the land for something around $1.25-1.5. Check out the craigslist ad for the property.

http://boise.craigslist.org/reb/2299608274.html

That said, I would like to see it built somewhere around downtown, but doubt it will ever be at 8th and Main....at least I really hope not.

[Saturnfromboise]

This is stupid and will never happen at 8th and Main. Two million dollars is already invested in the foundation, and to do anything less than a tower would just be throwing it all away. Not to mention, last I heard they were selling the land for something around $1.25-1.5. Check out the craigslist ad for the property.

http://boise.craigslist.org/reb/2299608274.html

That said, I would like to see it built somewhere around downtown, but doubt it will ever be at 8th and Main....at least I really hope not.

I agree with you my man :)

[Boisekid]

This is stupid and will never happen at 8th and Main. Two million dollars is already invested in the foundation, and to do anything less than a tower would just be throwing it all away. Not to mention, last I heard they were selling the land for something around $1.25-1.5. Check out the craigslist ad for the property.

http://boise.craigslist.org/reb/2299608274.html

That said, I would like to see it built somewhere around downtown, but doubt it will ever be at 8th and Main....at least I really hope not.

I also agree that this would be TERRIBLE if built there. But it will never happen. They will be looking for large donations to get this thing going (ie Simplots, Albertsons, etc). They'd have to spend $1.5 mill to buy the property, then spend tons of money revamping the foundation since it's a rusted out piece of crap ($2 mill of foundation work is bs).

I'd love to see a year-round market somewhere near the downtown core, but that is not the right place. We need to wait for a signature tower. look for them to buy an under-utilized building and make improvements.

[GrandTeton]

This is a great idea, but I think there could be a better location for a public market and I'm not a fan of the renderings either. A year-round public market would fit in much better somewhere else like the parking lots on 8th and Jefferson. It would help revitalize the Jefferson strip of downtown, which needs some attention. The parking lot next to the US Bank could possibly be a good location for a public market as well.

Boise needs higher density in the area around the pit. The parking lot right next to US Bank would be a good place for higher density. But I also think the Brick Oven Bistro building should be torn down and replaced with something more dense and useful.

[BoiseAirport]

I also agree that this would be TERRIBLE if built there. But it will never happen. They will be looking for large donations to get this thing going (ie Simplots, Albertsons, etc). They'd have to spend $1.5 mill to buy the property, then spend tons of money revamping the foundation since it's a rusted out piece of crap ($2 mill of foundation work is bs).

I'd love to see a year-round market somewhere near the downtown core, but that is not the right place. We need to wait for a signature tower. look for them to buy an under-utilized building and make improvements.

But why do we need to wait for a signature tower on that particular lot? Like I say, if there's one thing I learned from my 3D model of downtown Boise is that there is absolutely no shortage of places to put a tall building in Boise that would look great in our skyline. I just think one of the greatest qualities that makes 8th street so wonderfully pedestrian-friendly that shouldn't be overlooked is its sheer openness and its small-town but highly energetic atmosphere. The more I go down there, the more I think a really tall tower on 8th and Main would make a very negative impact on that vibe that makes it so awesome. I really don't want to see 8th street hindered by a claustrophobic feel from a tall tower, because I think that's one of the most important areas of downtown to preserve its atmosphere.

I do agree, however, that I wish this marketplace were a little bit larger or taller than it is in the renderings (My best case scenario would be a 4-7 floor part-marketplace/part-mixed use area for more bars, restaurants and upscale condos). The only other option for this proposal that I think would work is if this marketplace were incorporated into Library Blocks near the river. That, or if the convention center were ever torn down, that area right on the Grove would be an excellent spot for it.

I know how much all of you, including I, want to see taller buildings built in Boise. Especially since we haven't seen a whole lot of activity in the last two years. But what I think we all need to be careful of, above all else, is sacrificing the lively, open atmosphere which is what makes Boise's downtown one of the best downtowns in the US.

Boise needs higher density in the area around the pit. The parking lot right next to US Bank would be a good place for higher density. But I also think the Brick Oven Bistro building should be torn down and replaced with something more dense and useful.

Honestly, I'd like to see the Brick Oven Bistro building torn down (with the restaurant relocating to my dream scenario of a 4-7 floor mixed use marketplace building), and simply not build over it -- use that space for more plaza space for the grove as it can get so packed in the summer. And again, as above, I think anything bigger or taller on that space would hurt the open feel of the Grove.

In any case, I feel this project, if built in the right spot, would absolutely become one of the biggest attractions that downtown would have to offer. I could picture something a lot like Pike's Place in Seattle on a bit of a smaller scale, where you have tons and tons of pedestrians all along the Grove and 8th Street, with live music and the delicious conglomeration of all the different smells from restaurants and the marketplace. And then add in a downtown trolley to the already tremendously vibrant atmosphere. Man, I think something like that could become a nationally famous attraction, and would be THE heartbeat of the city, and I think 8th and Main, being pretty much the heart of real estate downtown is perhaps the best place for it.

[Visualize]

I don't necessarily think there is a right or wrong answer here, but I have some opinions as well.

I just think one of the greatest qualities that makes 8th street so wonderfully pedestrian-friendly that shouldn't be overlooked is its sheer openness and its small-town but highly energetic atmosphere. The more I go down there, the more I think a really tall tower on 8th and Main would make a very negative impact on that vibe that makes it so awesome. I really don't want to see 8th street hindered by a claustrophobic feel from a tall tower, because I think that's one of the most important areas of downtown to preserve its atmosphere.

This kinda smells like nimbyism. :haha: I really don't think that the "openness" is what makes 8th street pedestrian-friendly, and would argue quite the contrary. What makes 8th pedestrian friendly is the pedestrian-oriented and urban amenities and atmosphere unique to the entire valley which is found there. There are restaurants all over town, but I'm willing to bet people go to 8th for the best urban experience Boise has to offer. Where else can you sit outside and eat while looking at a 265 foot building to one side and an art deco masterpiece in the Hoff building to the other. A 30-story tower would add to this unique ambiance and could add roughly 200 residential units if built similar to other buildings I've looked at. That is quite a lot of people that would be out spending their money all up and down 8th street, as well as the rest of downtown.

The only other option for this proposal that I think would work is if this marketplace were incorporated into Library Blocks near the river. Having the city lease the warehouse next to the Anne Frank Memorial would have been an absolutely perfect location for this. Too bad it's now hemmed up for 45 years. Super.:rolleyes:

Honestly, I'd like to see the Brick Oven Bistro building torn down (with the restaurant relocating to my dream scenario of a 4-7 floor mixed use marketplace building), and simply not build over it -- use that space for more plaza space for the grove as it can get so packed in the summer. And again, as above, I think anything bigger or taller on that space would hurt the open feel of the Grove.

The grove is the most enclosed outdoor space in all of Idaho, surrounded by three of the cities tallest buildings. I think the Brick Oven Bistro adds a tremendous value to the grove, providing the largest outdoor patio downtown, and is totally packed during alive-after-five, even running one of the beer stands. They also have some interesting plans for the future which I've heard recently that will be great for downtown's nightlife. I've mentioned this before, but I think it would be great to see the parking lot bricked over, as that has a little more space and is obviously the biggest eyesore. Good luck trying to get them to sell it to the city or make a nice civic gesture though.

In any case, I feel this project, if built in the right spot, would absolutely become one of the biggest attractions that downtown would have to offer. I could picture something a lot like Pike's Place in Seattle on a bit of a smaller scale, where you have tons and tons of pedestrians all along the Grove and 8th Street, with live music and the delicious conglomeration of all the different smells from restaurants and the marketplace. And then add in a downtown trolley to the already tremendously vibrant atmosphere. Man, I think something like that could become a nationally famous attraction, and would be THE heartbeat of the city, and I think 8th and Main, being pretty much the heart of real estate downtown is perhaps the best place for it.

I definitely think it would be a great addition to downtown, but why not use it's anticipated success to anchor another area of downtown and spur development? A farmers market isn't exactly what you think of when picturing a sophisticated urban center...use it's success to bolster more development fitting of its nature, rather than smashing it into the middle of what is already there.

[BoiseAirport]

This kinda smells like nimbyism. :haha: I really don't think that the "openness" is what makes 8th street pedestrian-friendly, and would argue quite the contrary. What makes 8th pedestrian friendly is the pedestrian-oriented and urban amenities and atmosphere unique to the entire valley which is found there. There are restaurants all over town, but I'm willing to bet people go to 8th for the best urban experience Boise has to offer. Where else can you sit outside and eat while looking at a 265 foot building to one side and an art deco masterpiece in the Hoff building to the other. A 30-story tower would add to this unique ambiance and could add roughly 200 residential units if built similar to other buildings I've looked at. That is quite a lot of people that would be out spending their money all up and down 8th street, as well as the rest of downtown.

LOL, trust me, I'm not a nimby on the issue, I just think that 8th and Main isn't the best place for a 30-story tower, ESPECIALLY the kind of 30-story tower that I anticipate will end up being built (something brown, imposing and ugly). It's not like Boise is known for its architectural masterpieces and considering what's been built over the last three decades, I simply have to assume that if a 30 story building ends up on that lot, an architectural beauty would be unrealistic expectations, sadly.

And I can't see why a 5-10 floor urban marketplace/mixed-use structure couldn't tremendously add to that urban experience that people want (I totally agree with your reasons why people go down 8th street).

I could get behind a 5 story urban marketplace or 10, 15, maybe even a 20 floor condos/mixed-use (I still really like the old Boise Tower design). 30 is really pushing it though for that particular lot, I think. But that does NOT mean I don't want to see 30 story towers built in Boise, just not on that lot. :)


Having the city lease the warehouse next to the Anne Frank Memorial would have been an absolutely perfect location for this. Too bad it's now hemmed up for 45 years. Super.:rolleyes:


Yeah, that makes me upset too. I can't remember who said it recently on this thread, but I really agree that 8th-street from the Grove to the River should be entirely pedestrian oriented, and I'd love more than anything to see Library Blocks be built as a sort of extension of BoDo. If that were to happen, then I think that area would be very suitable for a large urban marketplace.


The grove is the most enclosed outdoor space in all of Idaho, surrounded by three of the cities tallest buildings. I think the Brick Oven Bistro adds a tremendous value to the grove, providing the largest outdoor patio downtown, and is totally packed during alive-after-five, even running one of the beer stands. They also have some interesting plans for the future which I've heard recently that will be great for downtown's nightlife. I've mentioned this before, but I think it would be great to see the parking lot bricked over, as that has a little more space and is obviously the biggest eyesore. Good luck trying to get them to sell it to the city or make a nice civic gesture though.

I do agree that as a business, the Brick Oven Bistro adds a lot. I was just outlying one of the many dream scenarios I have... I think that particular structure's design results in the pathway that leads to 8th street feeling a lot more claustrophobic than it should. In my dream scenario, the convention center would be demolished, and a large 20-30 floor residential/mixed-use building would be built on the corner of the, simulatenously expanding the Grove's open space AND giving it a more urban feel. Then I would relocate the Brick Oven Bistro there, so it's still on the Grove and still has tons of patio space. LOL, I've actually designed exactly the building I want.

Out of curiousity, what're these plans you refer too? :)



I definitely think it would be a great addition to downtown, but why not use it's anticipated success to anchor another area of downtown and spur development? A farmers market isn't exactly what you think of when picturing a sophisticated urban center...use it's success to bolster more development fitting of its nature, rather than smashing it into the middle of what is already there.

But it's not just about the farmer's market; it's what would ultimately grow from that. I think a large urban marketplace on 8th and Main would be the kind of stuff that brings street vendors, entertainers, street-jugglers and musicians who play on the street, you know what I mean? I mean, we already have that to an extent, but a dedicated, year-round marketplace would bolster that urban energy tenfold. In my perfect world 8th street would be like Boise's equivalent of the French Quarter in New Orleans, or Market Street in San Francisco. A 30+ story tower on that lot would be so incredibly dominating and imposing that it could really hurt that area by giving it a claustrophobic feel.

I dunno, maybe I am a nimby, but I think it's a completely legitimite concern. By all means I want to see Boise grow and progress, but at the same time, I don't want to see Boise lose a huge chunk of why I love it so much, that's all. :)

[BoiseAirport]

Actually....

My #1 dream scenario would be that I had a time machine, and I could go back and prevent the Eastman fire. :(

http://media.idahostatesman.com/smedia/2010/10/09/23/1010_Local_lostcity_7a.standalone.prod_affiliate.36.jpg

[Visualize]

I do agree that as a business, the Brick Oven Bistro adds a lot. I was just outlying one of the many dream scenarios I have... I think that particular structure's design results in the pathway that leads to 8th street feeling a lot more claustrophobic than it should. In my dream scenario, the convention center would be demolished, and a large 20-30 floor residential/mixed-use building would be built on the corner of the, simulatenously expanding the Grove's open space AND giving it a more urban feel. Then I would relocate the Brick Oven Bistro there, so it's still on the Grove and still has tons of patio space. LOL, I've actually designed exactly the building I want.

But it's not just about the farmer's market; it's what would ultimately grow from that. I think a large urban marketplace on 8th and Main would be the kind of stuff that brings street vendors, entertainers, street-jugglers and musicians who play on the street, you know what I mean? I mean, we already have that to an extent, but a dedicated, year-round marketplace would bolster that urban energy tenfold. In my perfect world 8th street would be like Boise's equivalent of the French Quarter in New Orleans, or Market Street in San Francisco. A 30+ story tower on that lot would be so incredibly dominating and imposing that it could really hurt that area by giving it a claustrophobic feel.

I dunno, maybe I am a nimby, but I think it's a completely legitimite concern. By all means I want to see Boise grow and progress, but at the same time, I don't want to see Boise lose a huge chunk of why I love it so much, that's all. :)

Yes, your concerns are legitimate.

I like your vision for the redevelopment of the convention center. In that scenario I would like to see the removal of the Bistro for more space. I'd be interested in seeing your design if you'd be willing to post it. :) This probably isn't that big of a deal to say, and if it is I'm sorry to whoever cares. What I've heard is that they are entertaining the thought of turning the Bistro into a bar/club at night with live music and DJs. Chilling out on that patio on a hot summer night in the middle of the Grove sounds perfect. I suggested they do light shows on US Bank or Wells Fargo, so if ya see it you know where it came from. :D

I've also said before that 8th should be similar to the French Quarter. Not explicitly stated like that, but in the fashion that there should be 3-dimensional vibrancy in how there are bars and restaurants with balconies next to the Eastman garage. Continuing that south down the rest of 8th street, mixed with a strictly pedestrian corridor would be amazing in my opinion.

[Sawtooth]

The Market was awesome yesterday, huge, it seemed larger than last year during the high season. I really like how they close down Idaho Street and have vendors on the street.

It is also fun to taste some of the local wines, get buzzed, and eat Tapas. If they ever build this building for the Market, I really hope they don't plan on taking away from the street presence, Bannock to The Grove Plaza because the street vibe is a huge part of what makes the Market so great.

[City Of Trees]

They should develop the parking lot in between 8th Street and US Bank before they think about tearing down the building that the Beanery is in.

[greenbearcub]

. . .A farmers market isn't exactly what you think of when picturing a sophisticated urban center...use it's success to bolster more development fitting of its nature, rather than smashing it into the middle of what is already there.

Just so I'm not misunderstanding you, are you saying that You don’t think farmers markets fit in an urban setting or just a Fix building or something else. In my opinion of the many farmers markets that take place in SF in some of the more urban areas (Civic Center and the Embarcadero) they feel very much like they belong and help the areas and surrounding business. I think having a fixed building in downtown Boise would be great and while I was at the farmers market I imagined both a tower and a 4-7 floor market area and I liked the idea of the 4-7 floors building much more. But wouldn’t be opposed to a tower in that location either.

And a quick question for BoiseAirport; When you mentioned the french quater I knew what you meant but then you added Market Street from SF and I got confused. What part of Market Street? It has some very different locations.

Also Sawtooth I agree with you that if building the market building destroyed the feel of the street vending that would not be a good thing.

Ok I keep getting interrupted while writing this so I'll post this much and then add more later.

[Visualize]

Just so I'm not misunderstanding you, are you saying that You don’t think farmers markets fit in an urban setting or just a Fix building or something else.

Well if you were going to quote me you should have kept the first sentence so as not to completely take it out of context...which said, I definitely think it would be a great addition to downtown, but why not use it's anticipated success to anchor another area of downtown and spur development?

But I'll expand in saying that I think they have some charm, but at the same time remind me of a flea market without the vhs tapes and old clothes. I like the transitory nature of just having it set up on the weekend and being able to walk around outside, which I'm willing to bet is more of why people go there than anything, and buy something as a nod of appreciation for giving them something to do. It's hard to say where a fixed building would work better, but I think over by the Linen District, which is a little funkier, would work well and hopefully help it develop more. This is all just my perception and opinion, and I fully understand that someone can totally disagree with me.

[GrandTeton]

Boise should add higher density around/on the Grove because it is the center of all the action downtown. I think when Jump gets built, it'll take some attractions of the Grove with it.

This may be off topic, but I think Boise should change its sign ordinance- making it so no building has large signs in the business district. I think corporate signs make too much of a distraction to the developing skyline.

[Boisekid]

But why do we need to wait for a signature tower on that particular lot? Like I say, if there's one thing I learned from my 3D model of downtown Boise is that there is absolutely no shortage of places to put a tall building in Boise that would look great in our skyline.

I'm not disagreeing that there are other great locations for new towers, but this is the most valuable piece of land in Idaho, and one of the most prime pieces of vacant real estate in the entire northwest! It is right in the heart of a growing metro area. It is in the very core of downtown Boise. How many thousands of people work within a 2 block radius the boise tower site??

It is too valuable to put a farmer's market or a mid-rise building. I'm fine holding out another 10-15 years if we can get a 20-25 story office or condo tower. How many cities have such a prime location in the center of the city?? Boise can't screw this up. It's in the heart of EVERYTHING! All of the tallest buildings in the city are in yelling distance of this site.

A tall tower won't take away from the 'walkability' or 'liveliness' of our beloved 8th street. It'll add to it! i'm not saying we need a 460 foot Boise Place, but a 300 footer is exactly what needs to be built there.

I don't want to see another mid-rise. With the foundation that is there and the listing price of $1.5 mil, no developer would buy that and put a 4 story building there. It's such a small footprint that it needs to be tall in order to make the development of a building economically feasible.





Sorry for the long rant, obviously the Boise hole is a touchy topic for me haha


And I do like the idea of a permanent home for the downtown market, but I also love that it's on the streets of downtown. I'm not for a permanent building if it takes away from that. That is what makes our market so unique

[Evo5Boise]

i'm not saying we need a 460 foot Boise Place


LOL, I want a 460 footer. :notacrook:

[Cottonwood]

Nampa news. There is a healthy stock of historic buildings in downtown Nampa so this is good to read about.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/04/20/1616715/new-businesses-create-buzz-in.html

New businesses create buzz in Nampa’s old downtown
Residents say the new eateries and shops give them many reasons to stay in town and save gas
BY SANDRA FORESTER - sforester@idahostatesman.com
Copyright: © 2011 Idaho Statesman
Published: 04/20/11

[Visualize]

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m48/visualeyez1983/stlukes.png

The original permit request for the St. Lukes medical building was denied for the following reasons:

The project is not compatible with the adjacent properties due to the lack of identified plans that would alleviate the affects of the parking reduction on the neighborhood. The site is not large enough to accommodate the proposed use, since the required amount of off-street parking is not provided. Since additional information was not provided that identified shared parking opportunities or encouraged alternative modes of transportation, the parking reduction could adversely impact the surrounding area. Without additional specific plans regarding alternative modes of transit for employees, the parking reduction is inconsistent with the goals and objectives of the Comprehensive Plan. (Policy 6.4.2.2 and Policy 6.4.3.3)

Reconsideration of a conditional use permit that includes a height exception and parking reduction for a medical office building will be heard on May 2nd.

To me it sounds like the planners are failing to take into account that the parking structure across the street will also be used. They need to think of the St. Lukes campus as a whole, rather than the buildings individually. I really want to see this get built for some reason, hopefully it gets ironed out.

[Cottonwood]

:previous: Strange, the city will approve a Walgreens at Myrtle and Broadway but have issue with this building???



And for some protecting even more open space in the Boise Foothills news:tup: I would say that Boise is the leader and great example of a city protecting open space, and so much of it is right by downtown.



http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/04/22/1619448/effort-to-save-harrison-hollow.html

Effort to save Harrison Hollow in Boise gets a big boost
The Albertson Foundation’s ‘inspiring gift’ is its latest donation to jump-start a major Boise recreation project.
BY CYNTHIA SEWELL - cmsewell@idahostatesman.com
Copyright: © 2011 Idaho Statesman
Published: 04/22/11





http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/04/21/1618178/saving-harrison-hollow.html


Community group spearheads effort to acquire Harrison Hollow in the Boise Foothills for the public
BY CYNTHIA SEWELL - cmsewell@idahostatesman.com
Copyright: © 2011 Idaho Statesman
Published: 04/21/11

[boiseaninexile]

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m48/visualeyez1983/stlukes.png

The original permit request for the St. Lukes medical building was denied for the following reasons:



Reconsideration of a conditional use permit that includes a height exception and parking reduction for a medical office building will be heard on May 2nd.

To me it sounds like the planners are failing to take into account that the parking structure across the street will also be used. They need to think of the St. Lukes campus as a whole, rather than the buildings individually. I really want to see this get built for some reason, hopefully it gets ironed out.

I agree with Cottonwood's comment regarding this decision. The P & Z seems to green-light projects that don't really fit into downtown (i.e., the Walgreens store). Then, when really good projects come along that fit into the urban landscape, they grind them to a halt and make the developers/businesses jump through hoops. I really believe that the city's P & Z department is hurting the development of downtown. If we ever hope to see some of the future projects like Capitol Plaza, possible filling of the hole, etc. the planners are going to have to be more accomodating.

[Sawtooth]

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[Cottonwood]

:previous:Nice, thanks for the update! The natural skyline is so beautiful.



Some news from the BW. I bolded the info about faces on 9th, 10th at Main because I haven't heard news about this before...the rest yes, (State Street and River 8).

http://www.boiseweekly.com/CityDesk/archives/2011/04/23/ccdc-takes-up-two-major-projects


Saturday, April 23, 2011
Boise CCDC Takes Up Two Major Projects

Posted by George Prentice on Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 11:08 AM

At Monday's meeting of The Capital City Development Corporation, the city's urban renewal agency will consider two large projects that are designed to change the landscape of the City of Trees.

CCDC will be asked to sign an updated Memorandum of Understanding with serveral partners (including Ada County, the cities of Boise, Eagle and Garden City, and the Idaho Transportation Department) to endorse the State Street Transit and Traffic Operational Plan (BW, News, "SSTTOP Waits for Green Light," April 13, 2011).

The latest recommended SSTTOP proposal would see State Street expanded to seven lanes between 23rd Street and Eagle Road, including HOV lanes and dedicated bicycle lanes.

According to a projection from the Community Planning Association of Southwest Idaho, population near State Street is expected to grow 93 percent by 2035. Imagine dropping 26,590 extra cars into State Street traffic.


CCDC will also consider a contract to move forward with its Streetscape Project. A $393,000 bid is expected to be awarded to Wright Brothers Building to improve the block faces of 9th, 10th and Main streets, including new sidewalks, increasing the number of trees and streetlights, as well as the creation of new "gathering places."


CCDC will also mull negotiations with the Hosac Company over its plans to build a large condominium development at 620 S. 9th St. The so-called River 8 Condominiums would include three five-story residential towers and a two-story parking garage between Battery and Fulton streets.

[Visualize]

Boise State Alumni Center

Located on University Drive between Grant and Denver Streets, the Alumni Center will serve as an impressive eastern gateway to Boise State University. The total useable public space will be between 40,000-60,000 sq. ft. The expected allocation provides 55% office space and 45% public/retail space.

Rendering provided at this link:

http://alumni.boisestate.edu/campaign/index.asp

[Sawtooth]

Boise State Alumni Center

Located on University Drive between Grant and Denver Streets, the Alumni Center will serve as an impressive eastern gateway to Boise State University. The total useable public space will be between 40,000-60,000 sq. ft. The expected allocation provides 55% office space and 45% public/retail space.

Rendering provided at this link:

http://alumni.boisestate.edu/campaign/index.asp

That building is impressive.





Construction at Crescent Rim Condos is progressing.


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http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/082-6.jpg

[Visualize]

^^^ Those look so nice. I would kill for one of those 4th floor end units, one of the best views in the city. Operation become a multi-millionaire is now in effect. :frog:

[Cottonwood]

http://www.ktvb.com/news/business/Boise-company-to-build-locomotives-for-Australian-company-120720254.html

Boise company to build locomotives for Australian company

by Natalie Podgorski
Bio | Email| Follow: @NatalieKTVB
KTVB.COM
Posted on April 26, 2011 at 1:14 PM

Updated today at 1:15 PM

BOISE -- Trains carry supplies in and out of Idaho every day. But soon trains will be the items shipped out.

MotivePower will be sending 22 locomotives halfway across the world.

Over the next year MotivePower will be sending locomotives to Australia.

It is the Boise-based company's first international contract and they're hoping this is just the beginning.

MotivePower is already in the design process for the 22 locomotives.

Australia's railways have different regulations than the U.S., so it will be an entirely new design for the company.

The Boise-made trains will be used by CBH, an Australian company that ships grain.

"Australia is a huge railroad market," said Mark Warner, VP and General Manager of MotivePower. "South America and Africa are other markets that take this kind of a product. So, it really does open up a whole new opportunity for us to grow and stabilize our employment."

As the contracts were signed today, CBH made it clear they hope this partnership will last for years to come.

CBH says it took them two-and-a-half years to decide on what company to work with, but the culture at MotivePower won out in the end.

The first locomotive is scheduled to be shipped this December. All 22 locomotives are scheduled for completion by June 2012.

Once the first locomotive is shipped out, MotivePower will finish a new one every 10 days until all 22 are complete.

[boisechev]

When I was in Adelaide, Australia I noticed that inside of their metro cars/trains there was a small plaque that said "Morrison Knudsen"(sp?)"Boise, Idaho"

http://www.ktvb.com/news/business/Boise-company-to-build-locomotives-for-Australian-company-120720254.html

Boise company to build locomotives for Australian company

by Natalie Podgorski
Bio | Email| Follow: @NatalieKTVB
KTVB.COM
Posted on April 26, 2011 at 1:14 PM

Updated today at 1:15 PM

BOISE -- Trains carry supplies in and out of Idaho every day. But soon trains will be the items shipped out.

MotivePower will be sending 22 locomotives halfway across the world.

Over the next year MotivePower will be sending locomotives to Australia.

It is the Boise-based company's first international contract and they're hoping this is just the beginning.

MotivePower is already in the design process for the 22 locomotives.

Australia's railways have different regulations than the U.S., so it will be an entirely new design for the company.

The Boise-made trains will be used by CBH, an Australian company that ships grain.

"Australia is a huge railroad market," said Mark Warner, VP and General Manager of MotivePower. "South America and Africa are other markets that take this kind of a product. So, it really does open up a whole new opportunity for us to grow and stabilize our employment."

As the contracts were signed today, CBH made it clear they hope this partnership will last for years to come.

CBH says it took them two-and-a-half years to decide on what company to work with, but the culture at MotivePower won out in the end.

The first locomotive is scheduled to be shipped this December. All 22 locomotives are scheduled for completion by June 2012.

Once the first locomotive is shipped out, MotivePower will finish a new one every 10 days until all 22 are complete.

[Cottonwood]

When I was in Adelaide, Australia I noticed that inside of their metro cars/trains there was a small plaque that said "Morrison Knudsen"(sp?)"Boise, Idaho"

Cool, Morrison Knudsen was one of the worlds largest construction and engineering firms and headquartered in Boise, one of their largest projects was the Hoover Dam, then MK became Washington Group International and now is URS. Boise has an impressive corporate headquarters history for a city this size.

[boisecynic]

Bit off topic, but I found a huge picture thread of Spokane which should be interesting to Boiseans. So similar to Boise.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=185842

[Boisekid]

Cool, Morrison Knudsen was one of the worlds largest construction and engineering firms and headquartered in Boise, one of their largest projects was the Hoover Dam, then MK became Washington Group International and now is URS. Boise has an impressive corporate headquarters history for a city this size.

It really is amazing. I just wrote a paper on that topic actually. Boise, in the late 90's, had 4 Fortune 500 Companies with Micron, Albertsons, Morrison-Knudsen/WGI, and Boise-Cascade. Also can't forget Ore-Ida which was a large company. Then throw in Simplot, Winco and you've got a list of corporations that rivals and perhaps surpasses Denver, Seattle, etc. Unbelievably impressive for a city the size of Boise.

Now??? All we have is Micron and the remnants of Albertsons, URS, and Boise Inc. It's painful to look back at all the corporate GIANTS we once had...alas...

[Cottonwood]

Reminder..the bike capitol city of the Mountain West is gearing up for Boise Bike Week next month. Isn't every week in Boise a bike week??

http://www.facebook.com/BoiseBikeWeek

http://boisebikeweek.org/index.html

http://biketreasurevalley.org/

[Cottonwood]

It really is amazing. I just wrote a paper on that topic actually. Boise, in the late 90's, had 4 Fortune 500 Companies with Micron, Albertsons, Morrison-Knudsen/WGI, and Boise-Cascade. Also can't forget Ore-Ida which was a large company. Then throw in Simplot, Winco and you've got a list of corporations that rivals and perhaps surpasses Denver, Seattle, etc. Unbelievably impressive for a city the size of Boise.

Now??? All we have is Micron and the remnants of Albertsons, URS, and Boise Inc. It's painful to look back at all the corporate GIANTS we once had...alas...

For a while there Boise had one of the largest concentrations of corporate headquarters on the NY Stock Exchange in the nation. Albertsons can be blamed for the riff raff that came out of Chicago and moved to Boise and almost ruined the company. We have Scentsy too:)
The corp HQ's reason is why Boise will always prosper imo, there is a long history of corporate headquarters here and a strong entrepreneurial drive/spirit.

[CaliforniaKid]

It really is amazing. I just wrote a paper on that topic actually. Boise, in the late 90's, had 4 Fortune 500 Companies with Micron, Albertsons, Morrison-Knudsen/WGI, and Boise-Cascade. Also can't forget Ore-Ida which was a large company. Then throw in Simplot, Winco and you've got a list of corporations that rivals and perhaps surpasses Denver, Seattle, etc. Unbelievably impressive for a city the size of Boise.

Now??? All we have is Micron and the remnants of Albertsons, URS, and Boise Inc. It's painful to look back at all the corporate GIANTS we once had...alas...

Don't forget that Boise also started "United Airlines" (called Varney Air Lines) before it moved to Chicago. It's now one of the biggest in the whole world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines#History

[Mushroom]

That building is impressive.





Construction at Crescent Rim Condos is progressing.


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This will do wonders for the already grossly over-supplied expensive Boise condo market near to and downtown. The RP has gone boobs up for the 2nd time, now with an auction pending. Multiple additional units coming online from Crescent Rim and R. Gray Lofts will push the other projects (and themselves) over a rather steep cliff.

More several hundred dollar a square foot condos in this market is exactly what is not needed at this moment.

[Sawtooth]

Yeah, it will all work out in due time.

I want one of those condos in my pics you quoted;) But I want a yard like I currently have at my property in the Northend. What is a man to do?






These photos are kind of trippy, they were modified using Cartoon enhancements.



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[Mushroom]

Yeah, it will all work out in due time.

I want one of those condos in my pics you quoted;) But I want a yard like I currently have at my property in the Northend. What is a man to do?

In the end . . . . . we are all dead:notacrook:

[boi2socal]

I agree condo market is saturated but the Crescent Rim project is a little different and offers substantial views. I have no clue what the prices are but I'm sure there will be some interest.

[boi2socal]

Bit off topic, but I found a huge picture thread of Spokane which should be interesting to Boiseans. So similar to Boise.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=185842

Spokane has some cool tall old buildings. I guess because Spokane was larger than Boise for so many years so they got the oldies and Boise got sprawl. lol

[Cottonwood]

Spokane has sprawl too. Alomst every city has sprawl I'm afraid lol, even little tiny cities of 10,000.


Good news for Harrison Hollow since the news broke last week, and they are 60% towards their goal:tup:

http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/a-matter-of-trust/Content?oid=2214571
A Matter of Trust
Land Trust of Treasure Valley plans to purchase Harrison Hollow
by Kat Thornton


Don Kemper, chief executive officer of Healthwise, said there was "almost a collective gasp in the community" when a for sale sign sprang up at Harrison Hollow. The 58 acres, with a trailhead literally at Healthwise's back door, is a gateway to some 400 acres of natural open space in the Boise Foothills.

[Cottonwood]

Boise State Alumni Center

Located on University Drive between Grant and Denver Streets, the Alumni Center will serve as an impressive eastern gateway to Boise State University. The total useable public space will be between 40,000-60,000 sq. ft. The expected allocation provides 55% office space and 45% public/retail space.

Rendering provided at this link:

http://alumni.boisestate.edu/campaign/index.asp

Great info.

[Mushroom]

I agree condo market is saturated but the Crescent Rim project is a little different and offers substantial views. I have no clue what the prices are but I'm sure there will be some interest.

Previously stated to be in the high 200 thousands for units under 1000 feet, then up to the sky.

They will do "as well" as the other expensive condo projects, which is to say not well at all.

It is all very simple. There is a very small niche market for this sort of project in Boise. Most of the people who would want one cannot afford to buy one and would not get financing except with a very large down payment (no way will these appraise out at anything approaching asking prices, given the state of the real estate market). Most of the people who can afford one either won't want this sort of thing or are too rational to buy a unit that cannot be resold except at a huge loss.

Catch 22, or worse.

[Cottonwood]

I agree that the Crescent Rim condos look really nice, the view is to die for and I am sure once they are nearing completion that they will be a popular sell simply because of location and view. Boise has positioned itself well as the economy improves with all of the condo's in and near downtown. When people in other states can sell their homes Boise will be a relo hot spot much like it has been for the past few decades.
Sawtooth, those cartoonified pics are neat.

[Visualize]

The developers of these high end units are mainly just unlucky, and unless anyone wants to post some data saying otherwise I would side with the men that actually put their money and careers on the line to make it happen. Tons of people across the country got caught holding homes that bottomed out, it's just unfortunate that due to extremely bad timing these developers got caught holding a lot more property in terms of units than the average family.

[Boisekid]

More suburban news on the Meridian Town Center.

Just a few tidbits before i post more info, all this info can be found on the City of Meridian's and Centercal's websites


-Will have up to 970,000 sq ft of retail
-Up to 150,000 sq ft of office space
-Up to 175 residential units

So we may be talking upwards of well over 1.5 million sq ft of development here. Centercal Development must have a lot of faith in the Boise market

Initial phase estimated to be around $200 mil, making it one of if not the largest commercial development ever in the state of Idaho

Early anchors could possibly be Scheels Sporting Goods and Harmon's Grocer among others, so they're definitely catering towards that west metro suburban demographic. Oh and this development will be fully integrated with the new 60 acre Kleiner Memorial Park.

And the Scentsy Campus is coming along nicely as are PKG headquarters, that Eagle Rd Corridor is going to be pretty unbelievable when all developed. Meridian seems to really be coming out of the recession nicely.




Sorry for the all-over-the-place ramble, i just tried to remember key facts as best i could

[Mushroom]

The developers of these high end units are mainly just unlucky, and unless anyone wants to post some data saying otherwise I would side with the men that actually put their money and careers on the line to make it happen. Tons of people across the country got caught holding homes that bottomed out, it's just unfortunate that due to extremely bad timing these developers got caught holding a lot more property in terms of units than the average family.

Each of these properties has a unique history. In some cases the developer is personally on the line (e.g. goes down the tubes personally with the project), in some cases there is a backer who took the risk, and in others it is a public entity or non-profit that is on the hook and that got shellacked.

At least one of the developers consulted the residential realty community for advice prior to building and proceeded in spite of strongly stated warnings about the risks; I know this to be true about the RP because the owner of large brokerage told me about his conversations with that developer that occurred before the first shovel of earth was taken out. He told the developer that the site was not suited to residential construction, based upon a whole host of reasons.

In another case, a local non-profit organization whose mission is/was to provide low cost housing, decided that they were actually capable of for-profit development, which they would do to finance other projects. Of course, they weren't very successful, in the end.

This is not a simple situation of people who did everything right, only to have the rug pulled out from underneath them. Major misjudgements were made, and assumptions about what constituted real demand in a small city like Boise, vs. what looked like demand in the middle of an easy-money fueled boom. Some believed the nonsense they kept feeding themselves about their own gifted-ness and capabilities. Hindsight is of course always 20/20.

I feel sorry for some of these people, and much less so for others.

[isangpogi]

More suburban news on the Meridian Town Center.

Just a few tidbits before i post more info, all this info can be found on the City of Meridian's and Centercal's websites


-Will have up to 970,000 sq ft of retail
-Up to 150,000 sq ft of office space
-Up to 175 residential units

So we may be talking upwards of well over 1.5 million sq ft of development here. Centercal Development must have a lot of faith in the Boise market

Initial phase estimated to be around $200 mil, making it one of if not the largest commercial development ever in the state of Idaho

Early anchors could possibly be Scheels Sporting Goods and Harmon's Grocer among others, so they're definitely catering towards that west metro suburban demographic. Oh and this development will be fully integrated with the new 60 acre Kleiner Memorial Park.

And the Scentsy Campus is coming along nicely as are PKG headquarters, that Eagle Rd Corridor is going to be pretty unbelievable when all developed. Meridian seems to really be coming out of the recession nicely.




Sorry for the all-over-the-place ramble, i just tried to remember key facts as best i could

Is there any indication of a start date? And Eagle road will be impressive. That is to say the land on either side of Eagle Rd. will be; Eagle Rd. itself will be a human logjam! I hope some creative traffic solutions are added to keep it from getting worse...

[Boiseguy]

dunno if anyone has seen the connector video

dNVJ71JNBm0

[Sawtooth]

I have not seen that , nice find and damn those mountains are beautiful. I like that drive mainly for the in your face views of the mountains and the foilage along the drive, especially when the rose bush's are in bloom.

[Visualize]

Great video Boiseguy. Piggybacking off of that, I found this video which has some incredible historic photos and general information about CCDC's role in shaping downtown through urban renewal.

_KjVZlKmIYs&feature=related

[City Of Trees]

Not to nitpick, but only the first two minutes of that video were the Connector. :D

I'm also curious about the comment that said a portion of Broadway was once planned to be a freeway. That's news to me. Anyone else ever read that in the history books?

[boisecynic]

Regarding the Broadway freeway, I was just reading about that but can't remember where or the details.

And to really really nitpick, The Connector via the US Highway 20/26 stretch goes all the way to Broadway. Does anyone know if 184 was called The Connector before the Broadway Chinden section was completed? I've read that The Connector is only the section from Chinden to Broadway. Anyway, in case new readers have never seen it, we're coming up on the 19th anniversary:

History of the Broadway Chinden Connector:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=131760

First pic of 13:

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z260/boisecynic/BCC1.jpg

[Cottonwood]

The people who made that video should have not turned on Broadway but should have continued on around the MK (URS) Campus on Park Boulevard and headed back West on Front to the Connector.

[City Of Trees]

The people who made that video should have not turned on Broadway but should have continued on around the MK (URS) Campus on Park Boulevard and headed back West on Front to the Connector.That's what I thought would happen.

[Cottonwood]

Are late night shopping hours on deck for downtown merchants?
:hmmm:
The entire article at the link.

http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/memo-to-boise-keep-the-lights-on/Content?oid=2226677

Memo to Boise: Keep the Lights On
Advice given at State of Downtown meeting.
by George Prentice

Roger Brooks wants downtown Boise to keep the lights on.

"We're moving to the European standard," Brooks told a full house at the Boise Centre on April 28 as part of the 24th annual State of Downtown meeting.

Brooks knows a thing or two about selling a city. As CEO of Destination Development International, he helped brand and market nearly 1,000 communities worldwide. The Downtown Boise Association asked Brooks to serve as its wake-up call for its annual early morning gathering.

"Seventy percent of all consumer spending takes place after 6 p.m.," said Brooks. "Are your businesses open? Even public markets that are open from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. don't work anymore."

[BoiseAirport]

Yes, yes, and YES! Roger Brooks is saying so much of what I've been feeling, especially in the way that Boise is marketing itself. That's so awesome that he's been brought to help market Boise, and his ideas make total sense. Better nightlife? Restaurants open later? More benches? Less cliched marketing? Yep, I'm in full support of everything he said. :)

[Cottonwood]

Yes, yes, and YES! Roger Brooks is saying so much of what I've been feeling, especially in the way that Boise is marketing itself. That's so awesome that he's been brought to help market Boise, and his ideas make total sense. Better nightlife? Restaurants open later? More benches? Less cliched marketing? Yep, I'm in full support of everything he said. :)

He has some good points, but there are already a lot of restaurants open late serving dinner, some until 2am on weekends, and the venerable Pita Pit is open until 4am? (I could be wrong about Pita Pit). Plenty of restaurants on the 8th Street corridor are open late but there could always be more open late I guess. Same with benches, they are all over downtown, but a few more couldn't hurt. I felt that a lot of what he said a downtown needs Boise already has in place, and that we can expand on our successful downtown. I'm for more retailers being open later like Urban Outfitters which closes at 9pm, Jos A Banks closes at 8pm. I like this statement he made which is in the article: Brooks also pushed something called his "10-plus-10-plus-10 rule": three linear downtown blocks must include 10 food merchants, 10 retailers and 10 places that remain open after 6 p.m.

[Cottonwood]

This will be interesting to follow up on. Boise has some of the finest and most beautiful and extensive city parks I have ever seen in any city I've lived in or visited.
Good job Boise Parks and Rec:tup:


http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/05/05/1636413/boise-parks-and-recreation-is.html
Boise Parks and Recreation is a finalist for national award
Statesman staff - Idaho Statesman
Published: 05/05/11


The American Academy for Park and Recreation Administration has announced the finalists for the 2011 National Gold Medal Awards for Excellence in Park and Recreation Management, and Boise Parks and Rec is among them.

The program honors communities in the U.S. that demonstrate excellence in parks and recreation through long-range planning, resource management, volunteerism, environmental stewardship, program development, professional development and agency recognition. Applications are separated into five classes based on population; Boise is in a class for populations between 100,001 and 250,000.

Boise is competing against the City of Lakewood, Colo.; Rockford, Ill; and Roswell, Ga.

A panel of five park and recreation professionals will review and judge the applications. The winner will be announced in November.

For more information about the Gold Medal Awards, visit www.NRPA.org/awards.



Read more: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/05/05/1636413/boise-parks-and-recreation-is.html#ixzz1LWMDlwrR

[Cottonwood]

A new town proposed between Boise and Mountain Home on the north side of I-84.

http://www.boiseweekly.com/CityDesk/archives/2011/05/10/new-town-to-be-considered-tonight-in-elmore-county

New Town to be Considered Tonight in Elmore County
Posted by George Prentice on Tue, May 10, 2011 at 10:59 AM


Testimony continues tonight on a proposed large-scale community west of Mountain Home. If approved by Elmore County commissioners, the Mayfield Townsite could encompass 5,000 acres of agricultural land north of I-84 at the border of Elmore and Ada counties.

The development has been on the drawing board for 50 years, and is roughly twice the size of Mountain Home and similar in size to Eagle and Meridian. The townsite project is tied to another planned community known as Mayfield Springs, a smaller, 761-acre project hoping to serve another 10,000 people.

http://www.boiseweekly.com/images/blogimages/2011/05/10/1305039305-1461948-h.jpg

Tonight's hearing is set for the Elmore County Courthouse in Mountain Home at 6 p.m. Another hearing is scheduled for May 12.





Here is a link for a little history on Mayfield.

http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/nowhere-no-more/Content?oid=928854

[Evo5Boise]

Is this the area where there was a proposed Nascar track several years ago?

[Visualize]

A new town proposed between Boise and Mountain Home on the north side of I-84.

http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/nowhere-no-more/Content?oid=928854

After being questioned by the commissioners about the water needs for such a project, the group said they "hadn't gotten that far yet."


Good luck with that.

[Cottonwood]

Not development news, but equally important as Boise continues her path to perfecting the reputation of an environmentaly & green savvy city....The Idaho Green Expo this weekend at the Centre on The Grove.

http://www.idahogreenexpo.org/

[jthomps4]

it sounds like old news, but has anyone seen or heard anything about the 6 story mixed-use building at 4th and broad/myrtle?

[Visualize]

it sounds like old news, but has anyone seen or heard anything about the 6 story mixed-use building at 4th and broad/myrtle?

Sounds nice. Do you have a link to a rendering?



Here's some info taken from the city's website.

The property currently has four existing multi-family residential dwellings and a temporary surface parking lot.

The contexts of the Idaho Independent Bank Building and the proposed building have some similarities.

The proposed building is architecturally similar to the other structures located within the downtown area in the fact that the proposed building includes a varied roofline, a number of openings within the façade and the use of a mixture of materials which include red brick veneer, pre-cast concrete, silver architectural metal panels, aluminum accents and aluminum storefront window and door systems.

Staff has recommended that the applicant be required to: obtain a variance from the standard setback on 4th Street, obtain a height exception that will allow the construction of a 96 foot tall structure, reduce the width of the proposed sidewalk to eight feet and center the sidewalk between the building and the curb line on Myrtle Street, install three Red Oak trees on Myrtle Street located between the curb line and the sidewalk, install three Chanticleer Pear trees on Myrtle Street that are located between the building and the sidewalk, construct the ground floor façade on the east elevation adjacent to the fire riser room of red brick masonry as opposed to the tan pre-cast concrete that is proposed.

[Boisekid]

Qwest Arena to become CenturyLink Arena

http://idahobusinessreview.com/2011/05/12/new-name-branding-coming-for-qwest-arena/

[Boisekid]

And I see that new "City" of Mayfield becoming a huge failure. Look at all the other mega-planned communities that have died, especially in South Boise. If planned communities are dying that close to Boise, no way a community in the middle of nowhere will succeed. Sorry, this is just another pipe dream imho

[Cottonwood]

Boisekid, I feel the same way of Mayfield, although there are already some homes in the existing settlement of Mayfield so who knows, something could come of this new project in the future, it is isolated but up next to the foothills between Boise and Mountain Home and has great views. I have driven that highway north of the interstate between Mt. home and Boise before and it is pretty nice up in there. I actually know a couple who built a large home out in that area and they love it out there.


it sounds like old news, but has anyone seen or heard anything about the 6 story mixed-use building at 4th and broad/myrtle?

Here is some info I found on the city website for 420 S. 4th Street...not sure if this is the same info Visualize saw.
http://www.cityofboise.org/Departments/PDS/PDF/Hearings/Planning%20&%20Zoning%20Commission/Agendas/2011/06-06-11_PZAGENDA.pdf


This link has some black and white renderings.


http://pdsonline.cityofboise.org/pdsonline/Documents.aspx?id=200812011604534530

[jthomps4]

Sounds nice. Do you have a link to a rendering?



Here's some info taken from the city's website.

The property currently has four existing multi-family residential dwellings and a temporary surface parking lot.

The contexts of the Idaho Independent Bank Building and the proposed building have some similarities.

The proposed building is architecturally similar to the other structures located within the downtown area in the fact that the proposed building includes a varied roofline, a number of openings within the façade and the use of a mixture of materials which include red brick veneer, pre-cast concrete, silver architectural metal panels, aluminum accents and aluminum storefront window and door systems.

Staff has recommended that the applicant be required to: obtain a variance from the standard setback on 4th Street, obtain a height exception that will allow the construction of a 96 foot tall structure, reduce the width of the proposed sidewalk to eight feet and center the sidewalk between the building and the curb line on Myrtle Street, install three Red Oak trees on Myrtle Street located between the curb line and the sidewalk, install three Chanticleer Pear trees on Myrtle Street that are located between the building and the sidewalk, construct the ground floor façade on the east elevation adjacent to the fire riser room of red brick masonry as opposed to the tan pre-cast concrete that is proposed.
i found grainy elevations on the city p and z site for the next meeting where cshqa is looking for a time extension, but that's it

http://pdsonline.cityofboise.org/pdsonline/Documents.aspx?id=200812011604534530

[Mushroom]

As some know, 8 days ago there was a "reserve" auction for all the units at the Royal Plaza, both residential and commercial. I have a friend who was there, with the intention to bid, although in the end he did not place any bids. Since this was a "reserve" and not an "absolute" auction, true market values were compromised, and sales prices likely would have been lower for units that did sell, and likely some units that did not sell would have sold at lower prices were they offered without minimum bid prices.

Bottom line is that if one totals the square footage of the residential units that did sell --#s 304, 305, 307, 403, 404, 407, and 503 (11,209 sq. ft.) and divides by the total price paid for these residential units ($1,616,475.00), one comes up with an average per sq. ft. price of $144.21. If on the other hand one looks at the median price per sq. ft. paid of the 7 units that sold, one comes up with $133/ft. The median price is probably more representative of actual value since it eliminates "outliers," e.g. situations where someone either got an exceptionally good deal, or "overpaid" due to some extenuating circumstance. Units that sold having terraces did NOT have the sq. footage of the terraces included, so these above prices per sq. ft. are inflated to some extent. For the record, by the sq. foot prices paid ranged from $175/ft at the max to $109/ft at the least.

A complicating factor at the auction was that a group that is apparently bringing a chain steak house restaurant to Boise came to the auction with the intention of buying all the commercial space (which they did) and many of the smaller residential units up for auction. Presumably the restaurant is going into the commercial space, and some principals or employees will use the residential units. It was obvious early on that they were going to buy what they wanted to buy, which was why my friend in the end did not bid (he wanted a smaller unit but had a point beyond which he felt the unit was not worth it, so he did not even place a bid). My friend is a real estate pro, and it was his opinion that almost all the reserve prices were too high, which is borne out in the fact that at least 4 residential units had no bids at all and almost all the units that did sell were smaller ones with lower reserve prices.

With all its flaws, the RP is a solidly built building and the interior work, appliances, etc., are much better than the lower floors of the Aspen Lofts, and about equal to the Jeffersons (which however show more "taste" in their decoration).

In spite of what at least one prominent Boise residential realtor would like people to believe, the sales of expensive downtown condos are almost non-existent presently with the exception of those that have been distress sales. There have been 2 expensive resale units (one in the Chase building, one in the Hyde Park) which have been taken off the market recently without being sold. Further, the RP auction amply demonstrates that there is a market for downtown condos, but at well less than half the asking prices for Jefferson and Aspen units, which currently stand at $300 to more than $400 per sq. foot. There are more than 50 unsold units in the Jefferson and Aspen projects combined that fit this price description, not to mention the R. Gray Lofts about to re-enter the market, plus soon to be finished Cresent Rim units.

The Royal Plaza auction likely sucked up what few sales might have occurred this summer in the above projects. One would have to posit some sort of big change in the Boise economy or demographics in order to imagine further sales happening at the imaginary asking prices of the remaining units in these aforementioned projects.

[boisecynic]

Excellent article Mushroom. A quick MLS search shows quite a few Grand Avenue condos at an asking price of around $100 to $120 per sf. Sure RP, Crescent Rim etc are nicer and better located, but not $300 per sf nicer or better located.

Forgetting about the comparable sales method of appraisal, let's try the cost method. Anyone got any figures on the cost per sf to construct a Jefferson or a Royal Plaza? I'm not sure but I'm guessing it's more than the $100 to $150 they're fetching. And how much of that is the cost of the land and did RP have any CCDC subsidy to acquire the land?

Even if the land was free, the cost to build is more than people are willing to pay, at this point in time.

On the flip side, I took a bike ride all through the Marianne Williams Park area yesterday. Construction of paths and rough grading continues. It will be a first class park when done. There are quite a few houses being built across Warm Springs from MW Park. Bottom line, suburban and ex-urban demand trumps downtown demand. People in Boise would rather live near nature than near the Neurolux.