[Mushroom]

Forgetting about the comparable sales method of appraisal, let's try the cost method. Anyone got any figures on the cost per sf to construct a Jefferson or a Royal Plaza? I'm not sure but I'm guessing it's more than the $100 to $150 they're fetching. And how much of that is the cost of the land and did RP have any CCDC subsidy to acquire the land?
(snippage)

Even if the land was free, the cost to build is more than people are willing to pay, at this point in time. Bottom line, suburban and ex-urban demand trumps downtown demand. People in Boise would rather live near nature than near the Neurolux.

It is hard to know what drives peoples buying decisions when it comes to housing. It is also pretty obvious that building high end condos in a downtown area is more expensive on a square foot basis than is single family or townhouse development outside the central core.

Living right downtown has its appeal, especially in larger cities with congested streets, and having sparse and expensive parking. Also, most larger US cities have undesirable neighborhoods in the immediate proximity, meaning that one has to live out a distance from the core if one wants to live in a nice neighborhood. Given that choice, inhabitants of such cities as NY and SF might choose to pay up for an expensive condo downtown, in order to avoid painful commutes on clogged roads, with scarce and expensive parking awaiting them once they get to work.

None of the above describes Boise. There are nice neighborhoods that are not far from downtown, parking downtown is plentiful and cheap, and there is a glut of cheap housing all over the Boise metro area that is selling for much less than it would cost to rebuild it. Given this reality, there simply is no market for small condos costing $300/ft and upwards, in downtown Boise. Even if a potential purchaser(s) had their hearts set on a downtown condo purchase, if they needed financing they could kiss that purchase plan goodbye. There is about zero chance that any responsible financial entity would appraise the units for sale at anything approaching asking prices. So there goes the financing, unless one can put down a huge down payment.

That means the only potential market at present is people with a lot of cash in their pockets, and most people meeting that description would survey the marketplace as it now exists, and would decide that any such purchase now would be ill-advised, since it is obvious that they would not be able to resell what they bought later without losing a bundle.

It doesn't really take any sort of explanation other than the obvious facts that are out there, to understand why only distress sales are happening now in the downtown Boise condo market. To use another example, diamonds are naturally plentiful and only by manipulating the market can their prices be kept high. The DeBeers Diamond cartel restricts diamond supply in order to prop up the price. Whenever you have "too much" supply, either the supply must be reduced, the price must fall, or sales will not occur. DeBeers limits supply, however unfortunately for those controlling the unsold (and potential resale) downtown Boise condo units, the supply is already out of the bag and it is, what it is. For the moment, prices are artificially way too high, so no sales are happening, and nothing will change until either demand goes up (unlikely) or those controlling the units throw in the towel and start selling for prices that potential buyers might pay. There is no other way.

This is basic Econ 101, nothing more and nothing less.

[Visualize]

^^^ This post again? :haha:

I enjoyed your insight of the first post, but the second one became quite anecdotal.

I think you are still ignoring the state of the market and potential financing options that existed when these developments were planned and constructed. Say the developer starts making things happen in January 2007, asking price of the 75th percentile is $377,500, by the time that project is complete in mid 2009, its value has already had 21% hacked out of it, and by today 35% is gone!! Obviously, if this was projected to occur the developments would never have gone forward. Now that they have, they obviously need to salvage as much as possible.

Here's what Scott Kimball, the developer of the Aspen had to say in October, 2010.

"My plan was to build through the recession and come out on the other side when people were looking to buy and move in," Kimball said. "I thought this would be a typical recession .... But this one has been different."
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700075671/Tough-economic-times-head-West-after-recession.html?pg=2

Also, around this time Micron and HP laid off thousands of employees that could have potentially been in the market to buy some of these units.

I don't know what the strategy is behind selling the units, but I'm sure they are fully aware that they are still asking for more than the bottomed out market price they are worth. Maybe it is cheaper for them to hold some of the units for hopes of retirees from Phoenix and LA who are used to high prices not doing a critical price analysis, or simply don't care that they are paying more than market rate, being that there are only a few properties that offer that lifestyle. I'd be really interested in seeing if their marketing strategy consists of more than a few websites geared toward current Boise residents. But anyway....who knows...I guess I just don't get your need to consistently bash the developers and downtown housing market when the circumstances surrounding housing values and financing for them is totally unprecedented. Yeah, values don't match up to pre-recession projections...no shit.

[Mushroom]

^^^ This post again? :haha:

I enjoyed your insight of the first post, but the second one became quite anecdotal.

I think you are still ignoring the state of the market and potential financing options that existed when these developments were planned and constructed. Say the developer starts making things happen in January 2007, asking price of the 75th percentile is $377,500, by the time that project is complete in mid 2009, its value has already had 21% hacked out of it, and by today 35% is gone!! Obviously, if this was projected to occur the developments would never have gone forward. Now that they have, they obviously need to salvage as much as possible.

Here's what Scott Kimball, the developer of the Aspen had to say in October, 2010.

"My plan was to build through the recession and come out on the other side when people were looking to buy and move in," Kimball said. "I thought this would be a typical recession .... But this one has been different."
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700075671/Tough-economic-times-head-West-after-recession.html?pg=2

Also, around this time Micron and HP laid off thousands of employees that could have potentially been in the market to buy some of these units.

I don't know what the strategy is behind selling the units, but I'm sure they are fully aware that they are still asking for more than the bottomed out market price they are worth. Maybe it is cheaper for them to hold some of the units for hopes of retirees from Phoenix and LA who are used to high prices not doing a critical price analysis, or simply don't care that they are paying more than market rate, being that there are only a few properties that offer that lifestyle. I'd be really interested in seeing if their marketing strategy consists of more than a few websites geared toward current Boise residents. But anyway....who knows...I guess I just don't get your need to consistently bash the developers and downtown housing market when the circumstances surrounding housing values and financing for them is totally unprecedented. Yeah, values don't match up to pre-recession projections...no shit.

But none of this matters. I'm not bashing developers, I'm just telling it like it IS. The situation is unprecedented now, but it was also unprecedented when these projects were being planned and built. Can anyone here remember another period of time when property values accelerated at the pace they rose, before this recent boom? That was every bit as unusual, and certainly less real, than the crash currently going on.

Now that I think of it, I actually can remember another similar situation, although it was localized and not throughout the greater USA. After the Alaskan Pipeline project was approved, there was a huge boom in some Alaskan residential real estate, mostly in Anchorage. After that boom crashed into a recession, Anchorage real estate prices entered a giant funk, which lasted well more than a DECADE. I have friends who moved to Anchorage and bought their house during that boom. When they sold it after living there for about 20 years, they still lost money on it. They had losses on several other pieces of property, a couple of which were commercial, and spent years working with good salaries to dig themselves out of that hole. Unlike now, in that time people were expected to pay their debts and to live up to contracts they signed, such as mortgages. The banks didn't let you off the hook because of bad times, they came after you, with the support of the judicial system.

I don't know what the strategies of the developers and those financing them are; it really doesn't matter. Water does not flow uphill, no matter what anyone might will it to do.

[Sawtooth]

When and if the national economy starts picking up again and people feel confident in making large purchases and people in other nearby states with horrible housing markets can sell their homes and move to Boise then the sales will start picking up again. I was talking to an oldtimer yesterday who hates the fact Boise has been growing like it has but he is just that, an oldtimer, borders on being a nimby, and doesn't like change. Change is good.


A few days ago, while on one of my epic bikerides around the city I came across a little history corner park that I have never seen before, kind of a surprise. Here is a photo, does anyone know where this is at?:D

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/005-12.jpg

[Visualize]

But none of this matters. I'm not bashing developers, I'm just telling it like it IS. The situation is unprecedented now, but it was also unprecedented when these projects were being planned and built.

I don't know what the strategies of the developers and those financing them are; it really doesn't matter. Water does not flow uphill, no matter what anyone might will it to do.

It does matter. To deny it is to take the entire situation completely out of context. I'm telling it like it is as well. I'm just taking the time to give a glimpse at the back-story, which is just as important.

And water will flow wherever someone with enough ingenuity and willpower tells it to. ;)

[Mushroom]

It does matter. To deny it is to take the entire situation completely out of context. I'm telling it like it is as well. I'm just taking the time to give a glimpse at the back-story, which is just as important.

And water will flow wherever someone with enough ingenuity and willpower tells it to. ;)

Sorry, the "back-story" is merely "color commentary" as they do during televised sports events. For a long time people have viewed housing as "an investment," and frequently as an investment that cannot go down in value. Anyone who has bought real estate at an ill-timed moment can attest to the untruth of this approach.

We have entered uncharted territory when it comes to housing. It used to be that when one got a mortgage, the agreement between the lender and the buyer of a dwelling was a genuine contract that could not be voided at the convenience of one party to the agreement. Nowadays, "strategic foreclosures" have become the norm, and many people regard them as acceptable behavior even when done by people who could still afford to pay their signed obligations. I doubt that anyone reading this now does not know at least one person who has walked away from a mortgage even though they could continue to afford to pay, but have done so because the property is no longer worth what they agreed to pay for it.

So, if we are in a period where signed contracts have no real value, where people can say they didn't really mean what they signed because things have changed, well then how can anyone make rational decisions if they believe in the rule of law to at least protect themselves from the capricious actions of others?

And without the meaningful rule of law, then how can you sell anything to anyone on credit other than with a very large deposit or other security/collateral? And if the market demonstrates that there is no market for something (such as downtown Boise condos) at asking prices then you have no market; it is that simple. Perhaps you could have a market at a lower price, a much lower price in this case.

And to posit a change of circumstance in the future based upon imagined possible improvements in the economy at some future date, that will entice imaginary people to move to Boise from somewhere else for imagined reasons -- that is all too much of a stretch in my view.

The best indication of what the future value of a given good or service, is its present value. Anything beyond that is a guess.

[Visualize]

The best indication of what the future value of a given good or service, is its present value. Anything beyond that is a guess.

Well then it's a good thing you aren't an investment advisor.

[BoiseAirport]

And to posit a change of circumstance in the future based upon imagined possible improvements in the economy at some future date, that will entice imaginary people to move to Boise from somewhere else for imagined reasons -- that is all too much of a stretch in my view.

Just to clarify, the economy one day improving in Boise at some point in the future is too much of a stretch? If that's what you think then I would highly disagree.

I don't think it's at all a stretch to say that our local economy will not only improve in the future, but that Boise as a city is far better suited to ride out the economic storm than the vast majority of cities in the US, and that we will come out far stronger than many cities across the country. Business-friendly enviornment, very high quality of living, excellent airport and air service, Boise State University's huge leap forward in academic progress giving the valley a source for higher education that's growing exponentially, wonderful climate, and geographically suited for the tech centers of the future.

I don't doubt your knowledge of the real estate market, I'm positive you know more than I. But you seem to be implying that Boise is behind the rest of the country. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but if that's what you're saying then I simply must question it.

[Sawtooth]

Maybe people from a distraught local anti growth blog are signing up here at SSP to spread bitterness?



Crescent Rim, hard to tell what is going on since it appears most progress is being done inside of the units at this point.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/012-10.jpg






http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/010-9.jpg







http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/011-11.jpg







http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/013-9.jpghttp://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/014-12.jpg









COBE




http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/030-12.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/027-9.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/028-11.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/031-11.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/033-12.jpg











Welcome to Boise, where the trees hide views of the downtown skyline.


http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/029-9.jpg








Concordia University of Law



http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/035-11.jpg




http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/034-9.jpg







http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/036-11.jpg






http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/037-8.jpghttp://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/038-7.jpg





http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/039-7.jpg










http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/040-12.jpg








Nice bike garage


http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/043-5.jpg

[Visualize]

I'm really enjoying all of your update pics Sawtooth. These are all going to be great historic shots someday.

[Mushroom]

Boise is a wonderful small city. I have investment real estate here and plan to buy more. I am not bashing Boise and I am not opposed to further growth, although I am not a developer and would not care to be one.

Getting back to the expensive downtown condos, my point is that they were constructed based upon a false premise, that Boise resembled other, larger, cities, and that there would be an enduring market for that sort of expensive residential housing in this location. While anyone can see the advantages of living downtown, access to downtown Boise is much easier and faster than is true from the sorts of cities where expensive downtown condo housing has succeeded. Parking is also not a problem here and is cheap, and the downtown core can be walked end to end easily and quickly.

The condo projects we are talking about here got built during a boom period that was fueled with easy money provided largely by investors, such as pension funds, who did not understand what they were investing in. It was like pouring gasoline on a roaring fire. In addition, a number of banks made some very ill-advised lending decisions. All of this was then, and we are in the "now."

And the reality of "now" is that if one steps back and takes a broad view, the justification for building the existing projects was not compelling, and the logic that they will become highly valued again in the coming decade is not strong. I do not see the driving forces coming that would make this housing valued at $300 to $400/sq. ft. and more even by the end of this decade, failing some sort of collapse of the US dollar, in which case it would not be a real value increase but rather a decrease in the value of the currency driving it.

Parking downtown will continue to be plentiful, road access to downtown has been expanded enough to absorb a fair amount of further growth, and although jobs will increase most of them will not be downtown.

So again, and granted this is all retrospect, these projects should not have been built because they cannot be sold for what it cost to construct them. That doesn't make them undesirable, but it does mean they will not sell for anything approaching current asking prices, even years out from now. And no new expensive condo projects will be built unless someone without skin in the game (like the government) subsidizes them.

My major reason for posting this information here, especially the actual recent results of the RP auction, is that there is a lot of misinformation being propagated by interested parties, e.g. the local real estate "industry" to the effect that the downtown condo market is healthy and that sales are being made. Some of that information has been linked to and quoted as if it were fact on this forum, if you go back several months. It is also frequently quoted in the Boise press without the sort of rigor that responsible journalists should apply. As a famous former NY Senator once said, "we are all entitled to our own opinions, we just are not entitled to our own facts."

[Cottonwood]

Awesome update Sawtooth.

Mushroom, we appreciate your input, but this forum really isn't the outlet to debate whether certain condo projects are needed or if they are overbuilt in the current economy, there must be a realtor forum somewhere where you can debate this topic (?) especially since you have said you are an investor in real estate. All 13 of your posts are about your opinion of why the condo's are questionable, so obviously you are passionate about the topic. You're going to find most if not all of us here at this forum are supportive of these projects and I honestly feel there is a market for them, but most finished construction right when the real estate bubble around the USA burst. Boise, downtown, has positioned itself well for downtown living as the market improves. We want to see more announcements damn it!! :yes:Bring on a new tower with mixed use, condos, office, retail.

[Mushroom]

We want to see more announcements damn it!! :yes:Bring on a new tower with mixed use, condos, office, retail.

I'd be all for this, if they could be built for a price that people could afford and if they would be sold and occupied, or even if they were just rented. Vacant, they would do very little for the community other than provide some short term jobs to construct them.

[Cottonwood]

http://www.boiseweekly.com/CityDesk/archives/2011/05/15/city-council-to-be-briefed-on-flood-preparations
Sunday, May 15, 2011
Boise City Council to be Briefed on Flood Preparations
Posted by George Prentice on Sun, May 15, 2011 at 4:04 PM



With public works officials getting nervous every time that rain is in the forecast or a heat wave accelerates a major snow melt-off, the Boise City Council will be briefed next week on river flooding concerns. According a new report issued to council members, "with the significant snowpack there is still elevated potential for flooding."

Current concerns are limited to probable Greenbelt path closures, but city officials will be given an updated plan for a hypothetical emergency where the Boise River approaches 11,000 cubic feet per second. The scenario warns that such high levels would lead to closure of portions of Parkcenter Boulevard, flooding in Spring Meadows, River Run and Municipal Park and closures of portions of Ann Morrison Park and Warm Springs Golf Course.
The hypothetical calls for immediate actions (establishing a command post, emergency declarations) and operational objectives (securing manholes, mobilizing sand bags).

Boise Council will be briefed on contingencies Tuesday, May 17.

[boisecynic]

On the flooding topic, I check the USGS steam flow site everyday. They recently posted this pic at the top of the page. It's Plantation Golf Course in late April 1943. I believe the view is from the North looking South. Upper right is Glenwood Street. Foreground is State St and extreme background is Chinden. That little lake is Elmore Lake still visible on google maps today.

BTW, as of 8:05 AM, flow at Glenwood is reported as 7,050 CFS, and that is flood level for some in Eagle.

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwisweb/local/state/id/text/13206000_PlantationGolfCourse_1943.jpg

Source site: http://waterdata.usgs.gov/id/nwis/uv?13206000

[Boisekid]

If you live within GBAD's boundaries, voting is today for 2 seats on the 5 seat council. Hopefully this will jump start the building of a new convention center!

[boiseaninexile]

If you live within GBAD's boundaries, voting is today for 2 seats on the 5 seat council. Hopefully this will jump start the building of a new convention center!

Absolutely! With over $10 million in the bank now, and with hotel receipts on the uptick in the first quarter, now is the time to get the right people on the GBAD council. Build that convention center on that open ground now! Break ground on JUMP! Big things could be right around the corner!

By the way, in the discussion over the last few days about the downtown condo market, somebody mentioned that a steak house was buying up the retail space and some condos from the Royal Plaza. Does anyone know if this is the beginning of Boise's Ruth's Chris franchise, or is it something else?

[Mushroom]

By the way, in the discussion over the last few days about the downtown condo market, somebody mentioned that a steak house was buying up the retail space and some condos from the Royal Plaza. Does anyone know if this is the beginning of Boise's Ruth's Chris franchise, or is it something else?

That is my understanding. I should say that I have eaten in one of those places once, and I found it an enormous rip off. I have my doubts that there are very many people in Boise or visiting Boise who are interested in a $65 or $70 steak with absolutely zero else on the plate, unless you pay for it. The cheapest bottle of wine on the wine list was like $60, and it was for a Beaujolais Nouveau that should have been poured down the sink by the time they were trying to sell it. The meal I reference was a year and a half ago in San Diego, and none of the people I ate with thought it was particularly good or worth anything close to what it cost.

The most amusing part of the meal was that I asked if the owner of the company, "Ruth," might drop by and say hello. That was a joke of course, but at that time they were still advertising in those airplane mags with that lady Ruth talking about her high standards and all that. The server said that it would be amazing if she dropped by, because she had already been DEAD for about 5 years at that point.

[Cottonwood]

:previous: I agree, Ruth's Chris is overrated, and some cities think it is a status symbol to have one, lol. Ruth's is not nearly as good as local Chandlers Streakhouse (with it's fabulous 7 page wine menu) or Lock Stock and Barrel and both are downtown near where Ruth's may go in. There is a new Greek restaurant opening soon on Glenwood, too bad the owners of that didn't try for the Royal Plaza space.

[Visualize]

On the flooding topic, I check the USGS steam flow site everyday. They recently posted this pic at the top of the page. It's Plantation Golf Course in late April 1943. I believe the view is from the North looking South. Upper right is Glenwood Street. Foreground is State St and extreme background is Chinden. That little lake is Elmore Lake still visible on google maps today.

BTW, as of 8:05 AM, flow at Glenwood is reported as 7,050 CFS, and that is flood level for some in Eagle.

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwisweb/local/state/id/text/13206000_PlantationGolfCourse_1943.jpg

Source site: http://waterdata.usgs.gov/id/nwis/uv?13206000

Sweet pic. I wonder when Boise will develop better flood control. A 100-500 year flood would have pretty catastrophic consequences, as can be seen by the current development of this area in the picture below.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m48/visualeyez1983/chinden.jpg
http://www.bing.com/maps/#JnE9LmJvaXNlJTdlc3N0LjAlN2VwZy4xJmJiPTU3LjYzMDQ3ODA2NzAxOSU3ZS02Ni45MDY1ODU2OTMlN2U5LjY1OTkxNjA3NjYyNTc5JTdlLTE3Ni43Njk4NjY5NDM=

[Cottonwood]

A little feathery fun at the top of one of our skyscrapers.

The fourth falcon chick hatched today, here is the Webcam link:
http://www.peregrinefund.org/falconcam/



Take a live look at newly hatched peregrine falcon chicks in Downtown Boise - Idaho Statesman
Published: 05/16/11
Read more: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/05/16/1651374/take-a-live-look-at-newly-hatched.html#ixzz1MeJfso3r


Peregrine falcon eggs are hatching in the nest box on the 14th floor of One Capital Center in Boise, according to a release from the Peregrine Fund.

Falcons have used the nest box at One Capital Center each spring since 2003. Last year, four chicks successfully fledged from the nest.

Want to keep track of the winged mom, dad and kids? Visit the webcam: http://www.peregrinefund.org/falconcam/.

The Peregrine Fund also has a camera on wild American Kestrels in a nest box at the World Center for Birds of Prey. It's not a webcam, but a new image is posted every minute. The release says five cute chicks in the box are growing like weeds. Take a look at: http://www.peregrinefund.org/kestrels/

[Boisekid]

Largest Boise Employers were released today by the Statesman

Boise’s largest employers in 2000
Micron Technology Inc.: 9,000 to 9,500
State of Idaho: 7,000 to 7,500
Albertsons: 3,500 to 4,000
Boise School District: 3,500 to 4,000
Hewlett-Packard Co.: 3,500 to 4,000
St. Luke’s Health Systems: 3,000 to 3,500
Boise State University: 3,000 to 3,500
Federal government: 2,500 to 3,000
Saint Alphonsus Regional Medical Center: 2,500 to 3,000
Ada County: 1,000 to 1,500
City of Boise: 1,000 to 1,500
DirecTV Customer Service Inc.: 1,000 to 1,500
Idaho Power Co.: 1,000 to 1,500
Sears Roebuck & Co.: 1,000 to 1,500

Boise’s largest employers in 2010
State of Idaho: 6,500 to 7,000
St. Luke’s Health Systems: 5,500 to 6,000
Boise State University: 4,500 to 5,000
Micron Technology Inc.: 4,500 to 5,000
Federal government: 4,000 to 4,500
Boise School District: 3,500 to 4,000
Saint Alphonsus Regional Medical Center: 3,000 to 3,500
Hewlett-Packard Co.: 2,000 to 2,500
Ada County: 1,500 to 2,000
Albertsons (Supervalu): 1,500 to 2,000
City of Boise: 1,500 to 2,000
Boise VA Medical Center: 1,000 to 1,500
DirecTV Customer Service Inc.: 1,500 to 2,000
Idaho Power Co.: 1,000 to 1,500
Meridian School District: 1,000 to 1,500
WDS Global: 1,000 to 1,500



I was surprised to see Albertsons still employs as many as they do, I thought that number would be much smaller. Hopefully we'll see Micron climb the list again. Also surprised to see the absence of Simplot, pretty sure they employ nearly a thousand people at the downtown HQ alone.

[Boise Benchman]

- If there is, as I believe, a HEALTHY market of folks that DO want the urban downtown Boise lifestlye

-If said market cannot in fact afford the high cost of condos downtown.

-Additionally if the concern over mortgages that may lose you money over the years, as recently is occuring to many home owners...

- PLUS, we all here on this forum want to see the density, UP-build and excitement of new construction downtown!

Wouldn't a logical answer be a HOPE that a developer would incorporate
APARTMENTS downtown...

[City Of Trees]

- If there is, as I believe, a HEALTHY market of folks that DO want the urban downtown Boise lifestlye

-If said market cannot in fact afford the high cost of condos downtown.

-Additionally if the concern over mortgages that may lose you money over the years, as recently is occuring to many home owners...

- PLUS, we all here on this forum want to see the density, UP-build and excitement of new construction downtown!

Wouldn't a logical answer be a HOPE that a developer would incorporate
APARTMENTS downtown...Where have I heard this before.... :D

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=5218834#5218834

[Cottonwood]

Breaking news tidbit:


http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/05/18/1653548/simplot-family-donation-will-help.html

Simplot family donation will help accelerate completion of park, Boise mayor says

[BoiseAirport]

Peaver-Derr, Kloc win the two GBAD seats.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/05/18/1653396/peaver-derr-kloc-win-greater-boise.html

Good news or bad news? What do you guys think this means for a new convention center? More or less likely? Or do you think we'll just see an expansion of the Boise Centre, if anything at all?

[Boise Benchman]

HEY, this is news I wanted to hear.
Chipotle Mexican Grill is coming to the old Jack-in-the-Box location by the mall on Milwaukee!

This is good news, because I love this build your own burrito chain. It's pretty similar to Qdoba which I enjoy as well, but I can't wait to have Chipotle so close to the mall as a fast food option!

[Cottonwood]

Boise State of the City Highlights: Glass Recycling and Parks
Posted by George Prentice on Wed, May 18, 2011 at 11:25 AM


http://www.boiseweekly.com/CityDesk/archives/2011/05/18/state-of-the-city-highlights-glass-recycling-and-parks

[Evo5Boise]

HEY, this is news I wanted to hear.
Chipotle Mexican Grill is coming to the old Jack-in-the-Box location by the mall on Milwaukee!

This is good news, because I love this build your own burrito chain. It's pretty similar to Qdoba which I enjoy as well, but I can't wait to have Chipotle so close to the mall as a fast food option!

What!? That JITB is gone? lol

[boi2socal]

HEY, this is news I wanted to hear.
Chipotle Mexican Grill is coming to the old Jack-in-the-Box location by the mall on Milwaukee!

This is good news, because I love this build your own burrito chain. It's pretty similar to Qdoba which I enjoy as well, but I can't wait to have Chipotle so close to the mall as a fast food option!

Chipotle is much better IMO. Boise has an abundance of these type of restaurants though.

[ianjt]

Anyone ever try Los Betos? Some of the BEST Mexican you will ever have. And it's cheap. I just wish it was closer to downtown.

[el conquistador]

Anyone ever try Los Betos? Some of the BEST Mexican you will ever have. And it's cheap. I just wish it was closer to downtown.

There's one on Fairview just west of Orchard, not too far off DT. Love Los Betos. :worship:

I also love that there is a Los Betos and a Del Taco next to eachother by St. Lukes Meridian. Like putting a Corvette next to a Yugo and asking me to choose.... :D

[ianjt]

There's one on Fairview just west of Orchard, not too far off DT. Love Los Betos. :worship:

I also love that there is a Los Betos and a Del Taco next to eachother by St. Lukes Meridian. Like putting a Corvette next to a Yugo and asking me to choose.... :D

Yeah. It's far enough when it's late on a Saturday night :P

[Cottonwood]

Anyone ever try Los Betos? Some of the BEST Mexican you will ever have. And it's cheap. I just wish it was closer to downtown.

I've eaten at these in the past, good greasy food, but would be wary after seeing the State Street location has failed restaurant inspection lately per the link at KTVB.




Here's a BW article about the two new law schools to open in downtown.

http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/forward-motion-boise-summons-two-new-law-schools/Content?oid=2252110

[Evo5Boise]

I love Los Betos. Best breakfast burritos in town! :D

[Sawtooth]

//////////////////////////

[Boise Benchman]

I love los betos! In Tucson there are also Los Betos, wonder if they are the same chain or a knock-off...??? hmmm...

I preferred the Nico's chains in Tucson, however! But, hey, I'll take Beto's!

And btw... with my experiences with these types of Mexican food spots, it's almost reassuring that they fail inspections, helps me recognize the authenticity of the meal! haha... Now I feel like some Horchata.

[Cottonwood]

Downtown Transit Center Multi/Model Center updates from earlier this month.
There are a few preliminary renderings of mass and height.



http://www.valleyregionaltransit.org/Portals/0/Projects/DMC/DMCboards.pdf

[andyroo]

Wow, that transit center in Maryland that they are constructing looks sharp!

[GrandTeton]

I'm glad to see Boise taking steps towards better public transit.

[City Of Trees]

I'm glad to see Boise taking steps towards better public transit.There's still a long way to go. I have little qualms in saying that this area is one of Boise's worst offerings.

[Boisekid]

Really hope they don't cut corners on this project. It has the potential to be really nice and help revitalize the western end of the downtown core. Unfortunately $11.9 mil doesn't go very far these days.

Also, Boise City has committed another $100K for the State Street study. Looking into widening state st, making it more pedestrian friendly and implementing BRT. State st expansion/improvements would be from Glenwood to 23rd.

[isangpogi]

Sounds like a great way to spur growth in public transit... Found it interesting though that they still mention the street car in the master plan, I thought that plan had been scrapped. Also the project seems to be taken hostage by Rafenelli and Nahas, developers who strongly oppose the center being built near their developments. They are threatening to cancel all their proposed projects for downtown if the center is built on 11th street. Sounds a lot like Albertsons, who threatened to move their corporate HQ elsewhere without massive tax breaks. They got the tax breaks, then sold out to SuperValu within just a few months.

What's everyone's take on this? I hate seeing developers hijack projects that are for the public good, especially when the projects are "proposed," and we all know what proposed means (Think Boise Tower). At the same time though, if these really do get built it would be great for the city. Do you think this is just a game of chicken? If the land really was going to be profitable for them to develop then would it matter if the transit center was in the wrong spot??

See this article for more info: http://apps.itd.idaho.gov/apps/MediaManagerViewer/NewsClipping/Story.aspx?ID=48140&Type=NewsClipping

[Cottonwood]

Really hope they don't cut corners on this project. It has the potential to be really nice and help revitalize the western end of the downtown core. Unfortunately $11.9 mil doesn't go very far these days.

Also, Boise City has committed another $100K for the State Street study. Looking into widening state st, making it more pedestrian friendly and implementing BRT. State st expansion/improvements would be from Glenwood to 23rd.

I saw this too...but wonder what they would do to State from 23rd to 27th because it is already 3 lanes each way and has great landscaping on the northside of State that the city parks department maintains. 27th Westward does need improvement though, but 27th to 23rd already seems to be ready, and those blocks are residential.

[City Of Trees]

I saw this too...but wonder what they would do to State from 23rd to 27th because it is already 3 lanes each way and has great landscaping on the northside of State that the city parks department maintains. 27th Westward does need improvement thought, but 27th to 23rd already seems to be ready, and those blocks are residential.I agree, I doubt they're going to do anything significant down those four blocks.

Fun fact regarding that section: 23rd St. used to be part of Highway 44, until they built the Connector.

[Boisekid]

I saw this too...but wonder what they would do to State from 23rd to 27th because it is already 3 lanes each way and has great landscaping on the northside of State that the city parks department maintains. 27th Westward does need improvement thought, but 27th to 23rd already seems to be ready, and those blocks are residential.


I remember looking at the state st master plan a while back and one proposal was that they'd have a commuter HOV/BRT lane. I'm guessing if that's still the plan, they'd just keep that third lane and convert to an HOV lane...

Side note: new 10-mile interchange opened today, improving commutes for Kuna, Star, East Nampa, Eagle, West Meridian. That's the first step in connecting Boise/Meridian/Eagle with Nampa/Caldwell. Now on to the new freeway:whip:

[boisecynic]

While we're on the State St issue--- The real problem is what to do with the section from 23rd to 8th. Can't really widen that section, but widening from Eagle to 27th surely will bring more cars and many of those will want to go straight downtown.

I proposed an on-ramp from the new 30th Street Extension to the east bound connector.

One of Boise's biggest transportation issues is getting from NW to SE. In fact, IMO, getting from NW to SE or BSU is the most annoying part of Boise's overall layout.

Of course the 30th St to eastbound connector idea fell on deaf ears.

[Cottonwood]

:previous: I'm all for the 30th Street extension, but I have often wondered if people will actually use it to get into and out of downtown or if they will rely on old habits and continue using bogged down State Street between 27th and 8th. ACHD and the City should implement something to force people to use the new extension especially during rush hours, maybe put a gate on State (similar to the ones on Highway 21 they use to close the road when there are avalanche dangers):) so that drivers have to use Main/Fairvew and 30th Streets.

[City Of Trees]

While we're on the State St issue--- The real problem is what to do with the section from 23rd to 8th. Can't really widen that section, but widening from Eagle to 27th surely will bring more cars and many of those will want to go straight downtown.

I proposed an on-ramp from the new 30th Street Extension to the east bound connector.

One of Boise's biggest transportation issues is getting from NW to SE. In fact, IMO, getting from NW to SE or BSU is the most annoying part of Boise's overall layout.

Of course the 30th St to eastbound connector idea fell on deaf ears.The ideal solution for 23rd to 8th, which was almost done in the 70/80s, is to combine it with Jefferson St for a one-way couplet. You'd have to condemn some land at St. Luke's on the east, and other buildings on the west (I think the best connection would be between 17th and 16th), which is probably why the plan fell through.

The other benefit is that you could narrow State St to three lanes, and gain some parking, bike lanes, or landscaping.

Unfortunately, I don't think you could fit an on-bound ramp at 30th, as it'd be too close to the River Street off-ramp. You'd also have to bury the ramp under the Connector, which would by spendy.

The best solution I can see for travel northwest, as I've said before, is to convert Chinden into a freeway. However, I'm sure Garden City would howl at that idea.

[City Of Trees]

:previous: I'm all for the 30th Street extension, but I have often wondered if people will actually use it to get into and out of downtown or if they will rely on old habits and continue using bogged down State Street between 27th and 8th. ACHD and the City should implement something to force people to use the new extension especially during rush hours, maybe put a gate on State (similar to the ones on Highway 21 they use to close the road when there are avalanche dangers):) so that drivers have to use Main/Fairvew and 30th Streets.I thought about this type of scenario once as well. The best traffic calming scenario I could think of would be to remove State St between 28th and Lemp, and put a four way stop at 28th & Lemp, forcing traffic into one of those two streets.

[Cottonwood]

Design Review menu for June 8. There is a 6 story building, a 5 story building and a 2 story pup to be discussed.

http://www.cityofboise.org/Departments/PDS/PDF/Hearings/Design%20Review%20Committee/Agendas/2011/06-08-11_DRAgenda.pdf

[City Of Trees]

With the IIB building already in place and now possibly that six story building, I hope they do something about improving 4th Street, given the increased traffic that will be there. Ideally, it should be extended between Front and Grove, along with completing the one-way couplet with 3rd. At the very least, they'll probably soon need a signal at 4th and Front, like they had to do with Avenue A and they'll eventually have to do with 2nd St at the courthouse entrance.

[Boisekid]

Nice to see some infill development taking place around downtown, those are nice looking buildings. Surprised to see nobody posted this:

Zonda USA Announces Headquarters Selection

A powerhouse Chinese manufacturer with global reach has its sights set on the Treasure Valley.

Zhongda Industrial Group, a builder of passenger buses with assets of $300 million and 7,000 employees in China, has picked the area for the headquarters of its new U.S. subsidiary, Zonda USA, said company spokesman Ken St. John.

St. John was reluctant to say Treasure Valley had been settled on. He said the situation remained “fluid,” and that the company was not ready to make an announcement, but when pressed he said: “We’ve come to the conclusion that we’re ready to move to Boise.” He declined to offer any information about the scale or scope of a future operation.

While St. John was skittish, the company’s website declares: “Zonda USA has announced it will establish its headquarters in the Boise, Idaho area in June of this year.”
A caption to a photo on the site says Zonda USA officers met with Treasure Valley mayors, state officials and economic development players in early May “to finalize details of the move.”

The site says that the commercial real estate firm Thornton Oliver Keller is looking for a location on behalf of the company. St. John confirmed that Zonda is scouting properties.
The possible locations include a couple of sites in Nampa, said Mayor Tom Dale, who was among the officials that met with company executives.

“We’re always interested in a good business opportunity,” said Dale of Nampa’s interest in landing the company. He said he understands Zonda is “looking for a location here to begin their United States manufacturing and service operations.”

According to the company’s website, “Zonda USA (is) charged with the sales, distribution, export, finance, marketing, promotion, representation, and after-sales service of Zhongda Group’s products and services in North and South America and Africa.”

The site says Zonda USA’s prime product is a new all-electric bus, which the company claims is the world’s only all-electric bus in production.

Steps are being taken to make Treasure Valley a testing ground for the new product. Valley Regional Transit is reviewing an offer from Zonda to somehow incorporate its electric buses into the fleet, said Kelli Fairless, VRT executive director.

She would not provide details about a possible relationship with Zonda because a possible deal is under legal review, but in a May 18 letter, she relayed to Zonda: “please know that we appreciate your interest in investigating the feasibility of locating to our community and welcome the occasion to continue the conversation.”

Fairless told Idaho Business Review VRT is interested in pursuing cleaner and cheaper alternatives to diesel and natural-gas fueled vehicles. She directed further inquiries to Boise Valley Economic Partnership, an arm of the Boise Metro Chamber of Commerce in charge of attracting new businesses.

“We are working with that group, although with that being said, it’s still early in the process,” said BVEP Executive Director Clark Krause.

So why Treasure Valley for a major headquarters of a Chinese company?

St. John, the Zonda spokesman, again declined to discuss details, but offered: “Idaho is very friendly to business. The state is open to attracting new business. Other locales are not so friendly. We wanted someplace where we could take our business and can grow.”

[Boisekid]

From Zhongda Industrial Group's Web Page:


Zonda USA has announced it will establish its headquarters in the Boise, Idaho area in June of this year.

Earlier this month Zonda USA officers met with the mayors of the Boise valley and with representatives of the government of the state of Idaho to finalize details of the move.

Zonda USA has retained the firm of Thornton, Oliver, and Keller Commercial Real Estate to contract the appropriate facilities for the company.



Should be interesting to see where they locate and what kind of facilities they want here. Sounds like it'll be a large operation with all business done in North America, South America and Africa will be done out of Boise. We might be talking hundreds of jobs to the area!! This is great news! Granted it's a chinese company but i'll take any jobs we can get.

[BoiseAirport]

It's great to hear about Zonda expanding into Boise. Even if it means that jobs are moved to Boise rather than created, it's still far better than nothing at all, and I'd certainly take it over, say, a company leaving the area. And while I won't hold my breath, I agree that the potential is there for it to be pretty big in the future.

This is a VERY old article, back from 2003, but I just discovered it and found it to be a fun read. Considering the 2009 Special Olympics were successful, and considering we have Qwest Arena, Taco Bell Arena, and Bronco Stadium will very likely hold 50-60,000+ by the 2030s (seating expansion to 50k is scheduled to be complete by 2013-14), the airport and infrastructure will probably be expanded (including, cross-fingers, a new convention center), and we certainly have the slopes for it... I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see this! http://commerce.idaho.gov/assets/content/docs/Assessment.pdf

[boiseaninexile]

It's great to hear about Zonda expanding into Boise. Even if it means that jobs are moved to Boise rather than created, it's still far better than nothing at all, and I'd certainly take it over, say, a company leaving the area. And while I won't hold my breath, I agree that the potential is there for it to be pretty big in the future.

This is a VERY old article, back from 2003, but I just discovered it and found it to be a fun read. Considering the 2009 Special Olympics were successful, and considering we have Qwest Arena, Taco Bell Arena, and Bronco Stadium will very likely hold 50-60,000+ by the 2030s (seating expansion to 50k is scheduled to be complete by 2013-14), the airport and infrastructure will probably be expanded (including, cross-fingers, a new convention center), and we certainly have the slopes for it... I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see this! http://commerce.idaho.gov/assets/content/docs/Assessment.pdf

The Zonda U.S.A. news seems very exciting. I do wonder why their spokesman was reluctant at first to identify the Treasure Valley, but since their web-site is making it public, we can hopefully count on it. IF Zonda becomes a reality and they also do a large-scale testing of their electric buses, Boise could get a huge boost: Chinese investment, jobs, further green economy momentum, etc. Hope for it!

Also, I think that the read you directed us to re: the possibility of a 2034 or 2038 Olympics is sensational. Is it swinging for the fence? Yes. Can it happen? Yes! BoiseAirport, do you have any kind of a status update on if the committee is still building toward this?

[Boisekid]

Well so long guys, it's been great discussing our great city with you over the last year and a half or so! I'm so glad i stumbled upon this site, i never thought there'd be as many development geeks out there as there are haha. I'll be leaving for Colombia for the next 2 years with limited access to the internet with no news whatsoever from Boise. So hopefully I'll come back and see a couple new 300 ft towers added to the skyline :tup:. Being realistic, hopefully JUMP and Whole Foods will be nearing completion, with a couple 4-6 story infill developments, and maybe, just MAYBE, a new tower that will be noticed in the skyline will be underway (Capitol Plaza anyone??). Maybe another signature development that we know nothing of yet. I hope i'll be stunned to see Boise when I see it next. I'll miss this city more than you all can understand.

Keep representing Boise well guys!! Hopefully a flurry of projects will begin so you can all have many things to talk about. Enjoy our great city for me!

See ya:notacrook:

[quilliam]

http://www.boisestate.edu/media/erb/

[Cottonwood]

:previous: Thanks quilliam.


The Zonda news is exciting. They have even been in touch with VRT for a proposal.....wonder what that means...Zonda supplying bus's for VRT???

http://www.valleyregionaltransit.org/Portals/0/committees/2011/MCPacketSpecialMeeting05_18_11.pdf


More IBR news:
http://idahobusinessreview.com/2011/06/03/former-hp-data-center-sold/

[isangpogi]

This is from today's Statesman:

SPOKANE, Wash. — The Spokane metropolitan area is about to become a lot bigger.
Spokane and adjacent Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, will be combined into a single metropolitan area as a result of the 2010 Census. The Census Bureau said it will be called Spokane-Coeur d'Alene.
As a result of adding the 138,000 residents of Kootenai County, Idaho, to the 471,000 residents of Spokane County, the new metro area will have 609,000 people.
That will place it 87th among the nation's metro areas, just ahead of Lakeland, Fla. and just behind Boise, Idaho.
The statistical change will not occur until 2013.


Read more: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/06/07/1679444/spokane-coeur-dalene-will-be-combined.html#ixzz1OcDqwwHd

[Sawtooth]

504 West Bannock is no more, it was a Tudor and now a pile of dirt. 504 is the approximate address from Google maps.




http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/056-5.jpg

[jimthemanincda]

This is from today's Statesman:

SPOKANE, Wash. — The Spokane metropolitan area is about to become a lot bigger.
Spokane and adjacent Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, will be combined into a single metropolitan area as a result of the 2010 Census. The Census Bureau said it will be called Spokane-Coeur d'Alene.
As a result of adding the 138,000 residents of Kootenai County, Idaho, to the 471,000 residents of Spokane County, the new metro area will have 609,000 people.
That will place it 87th among the nation's metro areas, just ahead of Lakeland, Fla. and just behind Boise, Idaho.
The statistical change will not occur until 2013.


Read more: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/06/07/1679444/spokane-coeur-dalene-will-be-combined.html#ixzz1OcDqwwHd

The article is a little misleading. Starting in 2013, the two areas will be a CSA (for statistical purposes only). They will still be two separate metro areas (like Idaho Falls metro and Blackfoot micro are right now).

Link to further information: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/jun/08/spokane-coeur-dalene-now-one-statistical-region/

[Cottonwood]

Another upscale restaurant opening in downtown, this one at 6th and Main. I miss Pair.

http://www.boiseweekly.com/Cobweb/archives/2011/06/07/the-brickyard-plans-to-open-downtown-in-late-june

The BrickYard Plans to Open Downtown in Late June
Posted by Tara Morgan on Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 3:01 PM


Following in the footsteps of Manhattan Grill, Texas Boogie and Boogie Woogies, The BrickYard will soon become Boise’s newest dueling-piano bar/restaurant.

[el conquistador]

Another upscale restaurant opening in downtown, this one at 6th and Main. I miss Pair.

http://www.boiseweekly.com/Cobweb/archives/2011/06/07/the-brickyard-plans-to-open-downtown-in-late-june

The BrickYard Plans to Open Downtown in Late June
Posted by Tara Morgan on Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 3:01 PM


Following in the footsteps of Manhattan Grill, Texas Boogie and Boogie Woogies, The BrickYard will soon become Boise’s newest dueling-piano bar/restaurant.

I miss Pair, but man their service was spotty. It almost seemed if you didn't 'look' a certain way, it affected the speed of your service... :cool:

[Cottonwood]

The entire article is at the link. Does this mean we can get a dim sum restaurant?


http://theintelhub.com/2011/06/08/china-wants-to-construct-a-50-square-mile-self-sustaining-city-south-of-boise-idaho/#respond

China Wants To Construct A 50 Square Mile Self Sustaining City South Of Boise, Idaho



China National Machinery Industry Corporation (Sinomach for short) plans to construct a “technology zone” south of Boise Airport which would ultimately be up to 50 square miles in size.

The Chinese Communist Party is the majority owner of Sinomach, so the 10,000 to 30,000 acre “self-sustaining city” that is being planned would essentially belong to the Chinese government. The planned “self-sustaining city” in Idaho would include manufacturing facilities, warehouses, retail centers and large numbers of homes for Chinese workers.

Basically it would be a slice of communist China dropped right into the middle of the United States.

According to the Idaho Statesman, the idea would be to build a self-contained city with all services included. It would be modeled after the “special economic zones” that currently exist in China.


...............The world is changing and nothing is ever going to be the same again.

Just ask the residents of Boise, Idaho – they are about to have a 50 square mile self-contained communist Chinese city plopped right into their backyard.

[Cottonwood]

:previous: This news and news from the previous page of a Chinese transport company choosing Boise as it's USA headquarters. China seems to have its eyes on Idaho.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=5303462&postcount=5953

[boiseaninexile]

:previous: This news and news from the previous page of a Chinese transport company choosing Boise as it's USA headquarters. China seems to have its eyes on Idaho.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=5303462&postcount=5953

For those who go to the www.intelhub.com story or read Kevin Richert's "conspiracy-theorist" links (http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2011/06/09/krichert/the_chinabuyingidaho_conspiracy_theory_a_readers_guide), we can see that there is worry out there that Butch and the state of Idaho are ready to sell out and let the Chinese develop a communist foothold in Boise. Give me a break! Foreign investment is a good thing, and if Idaho gets out in front, which we seem to be doing (Zonda USA, Sinomach, etc.), it will be good for the people of this state. It might even speed up the appearance of high-rise projects as other companies once again see Boise as a viable and desirable location for headquarters and/or major operations.

[BoiseAirport]

Wow. What news to wake up to!

Now, I'm reacting purely on the notion of this bringing in tons and tons of new jobs and growth in the local economy. My gut instinct tells me that I would absolutely love to see it happen. I'm a little hesitant to arrive at that conclusion, because I simply don't know enough yet about the project to come to an informed opinion. I'm really curious as to what you folks think. But my instinct is telling me this project would be huge (in a good way) for the City of Boise, the State of Idaho, etc. All I know, and this is for an entirely different discussion, I fully believe that China will be the top superpower of the next few centuries. It doesn't matter who runs the place, to treat them like anything less than a friend based on ideological principles is simply not good business sense. While I don't at all agree with everything that happens there, I don't subscribe at all to the belief that everything China is evil. Not one bit. But like I say, that's for a whole different discussion. :)

If nothing else, I would absolutely love to see this just because it would mean major growth at the airport. And I'm being very selfish in saying that, because such a massive project would be endlessly great for an entrepreneurial dream of mine, and would literally help get my idea off the ground.

It really pains me to say, I just don't see it happening. I think it would just face too much opposition from local residents who have a completely unwarranted fear of anything that's not American. I think this self-sustaining city will be developed somewhere in the West, but not in Idaho. But I would be so happy to be wrong.

[BoiseAirport]

Wait a second..... maybe I'm confused, is this news or an update or I'm I just being a doofus who's confusing this with old news? :P

And of course I can't find the Idaho Statesman article from back in January to link, but you guys know what I'm talking about, right?

[Cottonwood]

:previous: It is a current update of the story from earlier this year. I don't see something like this new city happening overnight, but I also don't think there would be much opposition either, except from paranoid "end of the world" freaks and white horse prophecy believers who think America will fall and then be saved.
...edit...my question about this proposal is, would the Chinese Government fly over a bunch of their countrymen and women to populate this new city, or would they allow natives who wanted to live there:)

[Visualize]

Yeah, when I posted this story months back it didn't state that it would be so secluded and housing what sounds like strictly Chinese workers. Then again, you can't really just pull up boatloads of Chinese immigrants, so that might not be how it is. Boise is only about 64 square miles, and this would be 50...holy crap. I see so many things that could go wrong with this...but I'm intrigued enough to say do it since there is also a lot of potential if done legitimately.

Some things that sound scary would be that they could apply for city status, have their own police force, heavily restrict outsiders, and become an outpost for crime. Or it could be an area of affluence, sucking up the economic potential of the area, leaving much of the rest of the valley dying. So many unknowns and possibilities.

[BoiseAirport]

Yeah, when I posted this story months back it didn't state that it would be so secluded and housing what sounds like strictly Chinese workers. Then again, you can't really just pull up boatloads of Chinese immigrants, so that might not be how it is. Boise is only about 64 square miles, and this would be 50...holy crap. I see so many things that could go wrong with this...but I'm intrigued enough to say do it since there is also a lot of potential if done legitimately.

Some things that sound scary would be that they could apply for city status, have their own police force, heavily restrict outsiders, and become an outpost for crime. Or it could be an area of affluence, sucking up the economic potential of the area, leaving much of the rest of the valley dying. So many unknowns and possibilities.

I think those are completely legitimate concerns. That's why to me it's so fascinating.

For one, if Chinese companies were to invest heavily into Boise and the surrounding areas in Idaho, I think that would open the door wide for the long-rumored FedEx US-Asia cargo hub, as Boise is ideally located for West-Central US-Asia routings, we have an ideal climate, a robust growing economy, wonderful quality of life, a very business-friendly environment, plenty of room to grow and most importantly we would have literally tons of high-yield tech cargo being shipped to domestic and worldwide destinations if this massive tech-center/city were to be built. No matter what, if this is built we will see a significant increase in cargo and shipping operations at the airport.

Granted this is stuff that's well beyond my knowledge, so I could be completely wrong, but I would think another thing to consider is that China investing heavily into Idaho could pave the way for domestic tech and manufacturing companies who are very unhappy with the economic climate in California to come to Idaho. The whole thing could snowball into something incredible, where Boise establishes (or re-establishes) itself as the next booming, hot tech center for worldwide companies to establish offices. But! Maybe I'm wrong on that one.

I've said it for a long time, Boise has so many things going for it that other places don't. Sure we have our flaws here and there, but no city or state is perfect and I think we're as good as any place in the US to host a business or raise a family.

Or it could be exactly you say, I think it would be unwise for anyone to doubt the possibilities you throw out. It's fun to dream and think of the what-ifs, I'm guilty of that far too often, but it's also very wise to be skeptical. :yes:

That's why I was hesitant to come to a conclusion that I really want to see this thing built (other than my own selfish dreams which would tremendously benefit from something like this).

[Visualize]

^^^ Agreed.

I made the prediction of Chinese skyscrapers coming to downtown at some point a handful of pages ago on here. The partnership that could be created here has unlimited potential.

[BoiseAirport]

:previous: It is a current update of the story from earlier this year. I don't see something like this new city happening overnight, but I also don't think there would be much opposition either, except from paranoid "end of the world" freaks and white horse prophecy believers who think America will fall and then be saved.
...edit...my question about this proposal is, would the Chinese Government fly over a bunch of their countrymen and women to populate this new city, or would they allow natives who wanted to live there:)

LOL, very true, I've probably been reading too many article comments on the Idaho Statesman's website. :P

And the other thing to consider too, this isn't a random developer with an ambitious plan without much of a plan for financing. Here's some information on Sinomach, some key points:

-State-owned enterprise group
-80,000 employees around the world
-They are the largest machinery manufacturing firm in China.
-Sustained 30% annual growth
-Main business revenue $15 billion USD
-Ranked 28th among Top 225 Global Contractors

http://www.sinomach.com.cn/templates/T_common_en/index.aspx?nodeid=147

Of course that may be written optimistically, but I feel like if anyone could get a project of this magnitude realized, China and Sinomach would commit to it, build it and follow through with their vision. Judging by my quick online research, they've been tackling TONS of projects throughout the globe, and the one thing I have yet to see is them backing out of an ambitious project like this. And it makes a lot of sense too, China is obviously an exponentially rising economic power, and they have every incentive to keep that money away from China itself and invest throughout the globe.

I saw an interesting analysis written yesterday (6/8/2011) of the situation by Dr. Mark Perry from the University of Michigan, Flint.

http://www.benzinga.com/11/06/1151008/what-can-we-learn-from-chinas-interest-in-idaho


EDIT: It is really interesting to read this article again, after the recent developments.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/12/31/1472023/chinese-company-eyes-boise.html

[Boiseguy]

the article is skewed, the chinese company is looking to expand in boise and create this manufacturing hub, but where it's talking about chinese people being shipped in is absurd and wrong. They are looking to use american work forces, but just modeling it the same as they did in china. It goes against all national laws to import chinese laborers to work on american soil.. this article is from conspiracy theorists trying to scare people about a chinese company investing in the US..

in the same way that americans go to work at toyota plants in ohio, american's will go to work at these chinese companies...the same way chinese workers go to work in american businesses over there...
it's a win win really for Boise... American businesses aren't willing to hire americans anymore.. so.. if the chinese want to come here and employ americans great!

[BoiseAirport]

the article is skewed, the chinese company is looking to expand in boise and create this manufacturing hub, but where it's talking about chinese people being shipped in is absurd and wrong. They are looking to use american work forces, but just modeling it the same as they did in china. It goes against all national laws to import chinese laborers to work on american soil.. this article is from conspiracy theorists trying to scare people about a chinese company investing in the US..

in the same way that americans go to work at toyota plants in ohio, american's will go to work at these chinese companies...the same way chinese workers go to work in american businesses over there...
it's a win win really for Boise... American businesses aren't willing to hire americans anymore.. so.. if the chinese want to come here and employ americans great!

I've noticed the same, actually, which is why I was confused on whether this is old news or new news -- it seems like the only media sources reporting this are ultra-right-wing conspiracy websites. There is some data in the articles which I have not yet been able to verify anywhere such as:

-A lot of these websites claim Sinomach has already purchased 30,000 acres of land south of the Boise Airport. I have yet to find anywhere official that verifies this.
-That this whole pitch to China to develop and invest in Idaho is the result of a secret partnership between Otter and Obama, and is named "Project 60" (Sorry but I just have to :haha: at that one).
-I have yet to see anywhere from a reputable source that mentions "self-sustaining city." The only thing I've been able to get from online is that it's a very large technology center, 10-30,000 acres (which translates to just under 20-50-square miles.)

So yeah, this proposal obviously has a lot of interest to me, but it's tough trying to seperate what's fact and what's fiction. I do love that phrase, "self-sustaining city." It puts images in my head of something like this south of the airport:

http://www.wayfaring.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/5c149_Masdar_City01_01.jpg

For a project of this ambition, despite my confidence in Sinomach at getting something like this accomplished considering their track record, I feel it would be foolish for us to hold our breaths. I'll wait for further news before I continue much more discussion. All I can say is that I feel a project like this would really put Boise and Idaho on the worldwide map for future investments by tech and manufacturing companies, which would all but ensure the healthy growth of our local economy no matter the economic situation in the US, as well as potentially creating thousands and thousands of new jobs. Sure it's China that's developing it, but what's wrong with that? Jobs are jobs no matter how one slices, and it's not like American companies have done a smashing job keeping manufacturing jobs in the US. It's either going to be here, or it's going to be in Utah or Nevada, or Colorado, or another part of the world. And if we're going to have an ally who will help invest large amounts of money into the local economy, the world's next leading superpower is about as good as we'll ever get. :)

[Cottonwood]

:previous: It is going to be interesting to watch this all play out.

On another note, this fit and fine river city is hosting Ironman again this weekend:tup:


http://ironmanboise.com/


http://www.ktvb.com/news/Ironman-will-close-streets-and-cause-delays-this-weekend-123587144.html

Ironman will cause closures, delays this weekend.KTVB.COM
Posted on June 9, 2011 at 6:10 PM

Updated today at 7:14 AM

BOISE -- The Ironman 70.3 race will take over Boise streets Saturday and for drivers, that means road closures.

About 1,300 people are expected to take part in the race, which is not for the faint of heart.

Athletes will start their race at Lucky Peak Reservoir where they will complete a 1.2 mile swim, followed by a grueling 56 mile bike ride.

Racers will finish up the event with a 13.1 mile run.

[GrandTeton]

I can see Boise booming if that were to ever become a reality. It doesn't surprise me that the media goes for the scare-tactics angle.

[Cottonwood]

:previous: Here is a conspiracy theory....:haha: Maybe China is planning on acquiring Idaho as collateral since the USA's economy is still horrible, our nations leaders are a mess, the stock market is currently sliding, and a Chinese official said that the USA is defaulting, and China is the largest holder of the Treasury.


:asian:

[Sawtooth]

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/009-15.jpg







http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/013-10.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/012-11.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/011-12.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/005-13.jpg








http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/002-19.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/003-17.jpg








Bonus shots and more are going to be posted in my Climax link thread later cause I am heading downtown to see some Ironman.


http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/044-8.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/1036.jpg

[el conquistador]

Where are those apartment/condo looking things under construction in your thread, Sawtooth? :shrug:

[Sawtooth]

Where are those apartment/condo looking things under construction in your thread, Sawtooth? :shrug:

They are at Boise State at Beacon Street and Lincoln Street.

[Cottonwood]

Nice....the last pic is beautiful, it makes a person feel good looking at it. It is good to see so much construction going on at B S U, now if JUMP and Whole Foods will get going already.




http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/009-15.jpg







http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/013-10.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/012-11.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/011-12.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/005-13.jpg








http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/002-19.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/003-17.jpg








Bonus shots and more are going to be posted in my Climax link thread later cause I am heading downtown to see some Ironman.


http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/044-8.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/1036.jpg

[BoiseAirport]

I am SO excited about the Whole Foods coming to Boise. Granted, I'll probably still shop at WinCo, simply cause I try to support local businesses when I can, but I'll still stop by and pick up some of the unique stuff that Whole Foods has to offer. That currently dirt lot is going to look so much better with the Whole Foods and Walgreens there. Especially if the multi-story condo development is ever added, those renderings were absolutely gorgeous.

And then of course, there's Boise State which is growing like none other, which is awesome to see! Rumor has it there'll be some stadium expansion news coming soon, so that's something to look out for in the next week or two. And the weather's getting so nice, DAMN I'm happy I live in such a great city! Haha, my civic pride is probably reaching unhealthy amounts. :haha:

[Boisebro]

there seems to be some uptick in news regarding the possible new boise hawks stadium.

i found this survey report online. both the city of boise and hawks are conducting feasibility studies that are due in the next couple of weeks, but this survey resulted in some interesting conclusions--most of which i agree with.

here's the recap:

1. The people of Boise support a stadium in the Treasure Valley region and overall they believe it is time to build it. :tup:

2. The facility should be built in Meridian or Downtown Boise. The facility should not be in Garden City. :cheers:

3. The facility should include a restaurant or restaurants for baseball games, as well as off season and non-game days. :yes:

4. The facility should include group/corporate facilities including meeting rooms, a convention center and or banquet facilities. :shrug:

5. The stadium should hold many concerts throughout the year. This will bring in revenue and is in high demand for Boise. :worship:

6. The stadium should showcase both Boise Hawks games and high school sporting events. :sly:

7. The stadium should have USL soccer only after more research has been gathered. :yuck:

8. The Boise Hawks should switch to a longer more competitive Triple A league,because the demand is high and willingness to pay for ticket is higher. :)


here's the link to the full report:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/47044009/Boise-Hawks-Stadium-Final-Report
(http://www.scribd.com/doc/47044009/Boise-Hawks-Stadium-Final-Report)

[City Of Trees]

Wait a minute, they want a multi-purpose building? Given the failure that was the cookie-cutter stadium era of the 60s and 70s, I'm not sure if that's the best idea for a Triple A baseball team.

[Boisebro]

Wait a minute, they want a multi-purpose building? Given the failure that was the cookie-cutter stadium era of the 60s and 70s, I'm not sure if that's the best idea for a Triple A baseball team.

apparently so, which is why i had :sly: and :yuck: by a couple of the recommendations.

i'm okay with the facility holding concerts, however. as long as the non-baseball event doesn't require reconfiguration of the facility, it'd be fine.

if we really wanted a soccer team, it can use the new 10,000-seat Donna Larson Park facility that will eventually be built northeast of bronco stadium.

[City Of Trees]

apparently so, which is why i had :sly: and :yuck: by a couple of the recommendations.

i'm okay with the facility holding concerts, however. as long as the non-baseball event doesn't require reconfiguration of the facility, it'd be fine.

if we really wanted a soccer team, it can use the new 10,000-seat Donna Larson Park facility that will eventually be built northeast of bronco stadium.Definitely agreed.

I'm not that down on keeping it at the Fairgrounds, though. It's fairly central between Boise, Eagle, and Meridian, and it's pretty much the barrier between the "nice" and "not so nice" sections of Garden City. Plus, redevelopment there could spawn other redevelopment nearby that Garden City could really use.

[BoiseAirport]

Great find Boisebro! :)

If the Hawks moved to Triple-A, I would definitely attend more often, perhaps even buying season tickets. For one the league would be a lot more competitive, meaning a higher quality of play, and far more interesting opponents... we'd be playing teams from Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Sacramento, Albuquerque, Oklahoma City, etc. instead of teams from Eugene, Pasco, Yakima, Spokane, etc.

Unfortunately, it also sounds like support for the stadium is more towards having it built in Meridian rather than downtown Boise, which given my location I'd far rather see it downtown (wasn't there a proposal to build the new stadium as a part of the 30th street renewal project?). If it were near the river on the greenbelt, say near the new Esther Simplot park, I would LOVE that. I think that's one thing you just can't beat about going to Boise State football games.. the way the stadium is right there on the greenbelt, it makes for such an energetic, indescribable atmosphere. :yes:

[City Of Trees]

They had dug a huge hole in front of Mulligan's on Main Street earlier this month, and I was wondering what the hell was going on. Turns out they're extending the sidewalk for what looks like will be some bench space. A very nice edition, even if it's coming at the expense of a couple parking places.

They've also got 10th Street closed right now in between Idaho and Main--they might be making another one of these in front of Ben and Jerry's, as well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v27/greenhabit/mulligans.jpg

[Cottonwood]

I found this info regarding Donna Larson Park at the city website in the P & Z area. This is going to be a nice addition to downtown and BSU.


Within this link are a few links for site plans.


http://pdsonline.cityofboise.org/pdsonline/details.aspx?id=CUP11-00033&type=doc

[Cottonwood]

...and a new downtown four floor apartment and office complex, Royal Cubes, on the opposite of Capitol Boulevard from BSU on Royal Boulevard. This little area could really become urban and dense with some renewal such as this. This project looks interesting and per the letter in the link it will utilize recycled shipping containers for the cubes. The DWB_Rendering Isometric link and Rendered Partial Elevation link give some visual details. I like the look of this, it looks like cubes stacked on each other.

http://pdsonline.cityofboise.org/pdsonline/details.aspx?id=DRH11-00133&type=doc

[Boisebro]

...and a new downtown four floor apartment and office complex, Royal Cubes, on the opposite of Capitol Boulevard from BSU on Royal Boulevard. This little area could really become urban and dense with some renewal such as this. This project looks interesting and per the letter in the link it will utilize recycled shipping containers for the cubes. The DWB_Rendering Isometric link and Rendered Partial Elevation link give some visual details. I like the look of this, it looks like cubes stacked on each other.

http://pdsonline.cityofboise.org/pdsonline/details.aspx?id=DRH11-00133&type=doc


i can't view or access any of the files on those pages.

any chance you can paste the renderings of the park and the cubes in this thread?

:shrug:

[Cottonwood]

:previous:


Here are some direct links for the Cubes, I can't get the images to paste here unless someone else can.


http://pdsonline.cityofboise.org/pdsonline/Documents.aspx?id=201106101634519480



http://pdsonline.cityofboise.org/pdsonline/Documents.aspx?id=201106101638426500


http://pdsonline.cityofboise.org/pdsonline/Documents.aspx?id=201106091341589750






Links for the site plan for the park.

http://pdsonline.cityofboise.org/pdsonline/Documents.aspx?id=201106031023418220





http://pdsonline.cityofboise.org/pdsonline/Documents.aspx?id=201106031023115280

[Boisebro]

:previous:


Here is the direct link to a rendering for the Cubes, I can't get the images to paste here unless someone else can.


http://pdsonline.cityofboise.org/pdsonline/Documents.aspx?id=201106101634519480



http://pdsonline.cityofboise.org/pdsonline/Documents.aspx?id=201106101638426500


http://pdsonline.cityofboise.org/pdsonline/Documents.aspx?id=201106091341589750


thanks, but those links keep wanting to open ASHX files on my computer. i have no idea what those are.

i can't view them on my mac or PC, either.

[Boisebro]

http://picsneed.co.cc/data/2011-05-30/unfrozen-caveman-lawyer.jpg


i'm just a caveman.

your links frighten and confuse me.

:(

[Cottonwood]

:previous::haha: Strange, not sure why you can't open them.
Does anyone know how to paste the pdf images in my previous post here?



More news!!!

http://idahobusinessreview.com/2011/06/16/ten-story-downtown-tower-on-the-way/

Ten-story downtown tower on the way

by Jay Patrick
Published: June 16,2011
Time posted: 11:09 am


One of the biggest projects in Boise healthcare history is in the planning pipeline: A new 10-story tower at St. Luke’s Health System’s downtown campus. “This is a big deal,” said Dr. David Pate, CEO of St. Luke’s, the state's largest employer. “It is going to be a very significant addition.” The tower will primarily accommodate
............

The rest of the article is locked.

[Visualize]

Here are the best renderings of the Cubes...and god are they ugly. Mix this with a bright red Jump and it's gonna look like Chuckie Cheese down there. This is the perfect location for a dense urban neighborhood though, hopefully the potential is utilized.


http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m48/visualeyez1983/cubes2-1.png

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m48/visualeyez1983/cubes-1.png


Pretty awesome about St. Lukes....even better if Business Review would actually let us read it. Just have to wait until the statesman drops it in a day or two I guess.

[isangpogi]

Hey I'm getting ready to move back to Boise soon and I'm curious if Whole Foods has begun construction yet? Any ideas on when it's supposed to be finished? Thanks!

[BoiseAirport]

Here are the best renderings of the Cubes...and god are they ugly. Mix this with a bright red Jump and it's gonna look like Chuckie Cheese down there. This is the perfect location for a dense urban neighborhood though, hopefully the potential is utilized.

Pretty awesome about St. Lukes....even better if Business Review would actually let us read it. Just have to wait until the statesman drops it in a day or two I guess.

LOL, I like it... it's funky. Or is groovy a better word? It looks modern and kind of techy, like it's geared for the University crowd which makes sense considering the location, I'm all for it.
That being said, it looks like it's going to be built out of used shipping containers. :haha:

GREAT news about the 10-story St. Luke's tower. I can't wait to see some renderings or drawings. Both St. Luke's and St. Al's have produced quite a few beautiful structures around the valley, so it'll be great to see what they come up with. :yes:

I'm thinking it's getting close to time for me to make an update on the main page! :banana: