[boi2socal]

I thought it was Alaska. I remember sitting in the airport many times when those flights left. They were relatively common.

Alaska only started flying to Hawaii a few years ago. North American operated these flights from Boise and Spokane, they were charters and only operated a few times a week. Boise was dropped first followed by Spokane.

Spokane probably has more Hawaii interest because their winters are more harsh than Boise's and generally cooler year round. I think there are more retirees and snowbird types when you include NID. Just like all the Alaskans that flock to Hawaii although the population is small.

[City Of Trees]

This is something that should have happened years ago, but they are finally building a signal at 2nd and Front right in front of the Courthouse to finally cut down on jaywalking. They've been fighting a futile war over that one.

[BoiseAirport]

I thought it was Alaska. I remember sitting in the airport many times when those flights left. They were relatively common.

You're probably thinking of when Alaska operated daily flights between Boise and Seattle from 2003-2008. It actually wouldn't shock me to see those flights come back in the near future. Alaska will be steadily growing over the next few years, and they're maxed out for overnight parking in SEA. Boise would be an ideal place to send a flight to remain overnight as we're close to SEA and close to the time zone border, meaning a flight can leave BOI at 6:20am local time and arrive in SEA at 6:30am local time to catch a flight that might leave for Chicago at 7:15am, hypothetically. In addition, and most importantly, Boise to Seattle is among the top 3 most profitable routes (as seen in the investor's report) operated by Horizon.

[ATLonthebrain]

Spokane is a larger travel market than Boise. Each year it sees approx. 10% more passengers than BOI does. That, coupled with other points raised pertaining to the more harsh winter climate, are likely the reasons there is more existing (actual travelers) Hawaii demand there than here. But, Hawaii service from BOI would draw from an incredibly vast geographic area, because no other airport within 350 miles currently has nonstop service to Hawaii (closest is SLC with 1 daily DL flight). The type of service Allegiant would offer, at very attractive prices (vacation packages or a la carte air travel) would likely lure people in from as far west as Pendleton and as far east as Idaho Falls. Also, I would expect a competitive response from Alaska in Spokane before Boise, as Spokane is a much more important market to Alaska in terms of passengers served and market share. It has reduced flying so much in Boise over the last 3-years that it's very possible United and/or Delta will replace it as the 2nd most traveled airline @ BOI this year.

[BoiseAirport]

Spokane is a larger travel market than Boise. Each year it sees approx. 10% more passengers than BOI does. That, coupled with other points raised pertaining to the more harsh winter climate, are likely the reasons there is more existing (actual travelers) Hawaii demand there than here. But, Hawaii service from BOI would draw from an incredibly vast geographic area, because no other airport within 350 miles currently has nonstop service to Hawaii (closest is SLC with 1 daily DL flight). The type of service Allegiant would offer, at very attractive prices (vacation packages or a la carte air travel) would likely lure people in from as far west as Pendleton and as far east as Idaho Falls. Also, I would expect a competitive response from Alaska in Spokane before Boise, as Spokane is a much more important market to Alaska in terms of passengers served and market share. It has reduced flying so much in Boise over the last 3-years that it's very possible United and/or Delta will replace it as the 2nd most traveled airline @ BOI this year.

BOI sees so little AS/QX (Alaska/Horizon) service compared to 1991-2004 (in terms of number of flights and destinations served). Its sad, but your post hit the nail on the head on every count.

As for why Spokane is a larger market than Boise considering Boise has technically the (slightly) larger metro area -- the airport service area population for Spokane is larger than Boise's as it also consists of Coeur D'Alene, and also draws from Lewiston/Moscow/Pullman, as well as Canadians over the border who can save $200 or more in airfare, taxes and fees by driving down to GEG. In addition, the drive from Spokane to Seattle (Alaska/Horizon's largest hub and headquarters) is long and mountainous, so flying is the preferred method, and AS/QX have long established themselves as the dominant carrier on that route. The result is that they have a large frequent flier base in GEG, larger than BOI, that can very easily connect through SEA and continue onto wherever they're going.

[Cottonwood]

The IBR finally has an article about The Cubes we talked about a few weeks ago in this thread, But....it is such top secret and coveted news that here in America you have to pay to read about it online:tup:

http://idahobusinessreview.com/2011/07/12/thinking-outside-the-box-shipping-container-project-in-the-works/

Thinking outside the box: shipping container project in the works
by Jay Patrick
Published: July 12,2011
Time posted: 3:06 pm


Want to live in a box? Literally? A 108-unit apartment-office complex plan working its way through Boise’s building department will largely be made out of recycled shipping containers. Drawings of the project dubbed Royal Cubes Residential look a bit like a kid’s Lego creation with rectangles protruding from a core square structure, and wood towers sticking ...

[isangpogi]

BOI sees so little AS/QX (Alaska/Horizon) service compared to 1991-2004 (in terms of number of flights and destinations served). Its sad, but your post hit the nail on the head on every count.

As for why Spokane is a larger market than Boise considering Boise has technically the (slightly) larger metro area -- the airport service area population for Spokane is larger than Boise's as it also consists of Coeur D'Alene, and also draws from Lewiston/Moscow/Pullman, as well as Canadians over the border who can save $200 or more in airfare, taxes and fees by driving down to GEG. In addition, the drive from Spokane to Seattle (Alaska/Horizon's largest hub and headquarters) is long and mountainous, so flying is the preferred method, and AS/QX have long established themselves as the dominant carrier on that route. The result is that they have a large frequent flier base in GEG, larger than BOI, that can very easily connect through SEA and continue onto wherever they're going.

Very interesting, I don't what it is about the logistics of air travel that is so fascinating, but clearly I'm not alone... A quick glance at GEG's wikipedia page shows that GEG see's just over 3 mil passengers per year while BOI see's about 2.8 mil. Despite processing more passengers, BOI has a much more impressive list of destinations at higher frequency. No nonstop service to LAX (we have 4 daily between American and United) and only once-daily to ORD on a small aircraft, compared to our two on A320/319s. GEG does have near-hourly flights to Seattle all-day, but that's incredibly out of the way to connect with domestic destinations. Alaska only flies to Portland and Seattle from GEG but does so with very high frequency. GEG has 5 daily to denver, we have 8 (United & SW). So despite higher ridership at GEG, BOI maintains what seems to me like more convenient options for air travel and connecting at major hubs.

I do really like how Alaska is rebranding the Horizon planes as "Alaska by Horizon," I've always thought their planes looks much classier, with the eskimo instead of the horseshoe-looking thing haha...

Just out of curiosity, BoiseAirport, what kind of work are you in? You're incredibly knowledgeable of aviation, is it a hobby of yours or do you work in the industry? Or both?

[ATLonthebrain]

Actually, there are currently 10 daily BOI-DEN nonstops, as Frontier is operating twice-daily through mid-Sept. Also, it is flying a 3rd daily trip a couple of days per week, so there is no shortage of capacity to/from DEN at the moment. I agree that the type of service offered @ BOI is superior to that offered from Spokane (GEG), at least on several routes (ORD, LAX, SFO, DEN, SLC). GEG has recently lost quite a bit of seat capacity, putting it slightly below the average daily seat level operated @ BOI. What will be interesting is to see if enplanement levels remain higher than BOI's for the next few months or if they remain stronger.

[whovean]

Spokane is a larger travel market than Boise. Each year it sees approx. 10% more passengers than BOI does. That, coupled with other points raised pertaining to the more harsh winter climate, are likely the reasons there is more existing (actual travelers) Hawaii demand there than here. But, Hawaii service from BOI would draw from an incredibly vast geographic area, because no other airport within 350 miles currently has nonstop service to Hawaii (closest is SLC with 1 daily DL flight). The type of service Allegiant would offer, at very attractive prices (vacation packages or a la carte air travel) would likely lure people in from as far west as Pendleton and as far east as Idaho Falls. Also, I would expect a competitive response from Alaska in Spokane before Boise, as Spokane is a much more important market to Alaska in terms of passengers served and market share. It has reduced flying so much in Boise over the last 3-years that it's very possible United and/or Delta will replace it as the 2nd most traveled airline @ BOI this year.

lets face it, if you had to live in Spokane wouldent you want to get out of town as much as possible :haha:

[BoiseAirport]

Very interesting, I don't what it is about the logistics of air travel that is so fascinating, but clearly I'm not alone... A quick glance at GEG's wikipedia page shows that GEG see's just over 3 mil passengers per year while BOI see's about 2.8 mil. Despite processing more passengers, BOI has a much more impressive list of destinations at higher frequency. No nonstop service to LAX (we have 4 daily between American and United) and only once-daily to ORD on a small aircraft, compared to our two on A320/319s. GEG does have near-hourly flights to Seattle all-day, but that's incredibly out of the way to connect with domestic destinations. Alaska only flies to Portland and Seattle from GEG but does so with very high frequency. GEG has 5 daily to denver, we have 8 (United & SW). So despite higher ridership at GEG, BOI maintains what seems to me like more convenient options for air travel and connecting at major hubs.

I do really like how Alaska is rebranding the Horizon planes as "Alaska by Horizon," I've always thought their planes looks much classier, with the eskimo instead of the horseshoe-looking thing haha...

Just out of curiosity, BoiseAirport, what kind of work are you in? You're incredibly knowledgeable of aviation, is it a hobby of yours or do you work in the industry? Or both?

Oh I agree. I'm really interested in how Eagle does flying BOI-LAX. AA has had a little trouble in the past entering the Boise market with a failed Boise to Dallas-Ft. Worth nonstop in 2002. However, I think BOI-LAX could potentially be a bit more lucrative and if the service does well we might see them make another attempt at BOI-DFW and/or BOI-ORD in the future. But first BOI-LAX has to do well.

As for what I do, I'm just a student at Boise State, though I will be interning next summer at a major industrial/graphic design firm that works with Boeing (funnily enough many of the 3D models and designs I've developed for SSP helped get me that internship!). I've been passionate about civil aviation and the airline industry ever since I was a wee little kid. Both my parents worked for the airlines and have given me an inside look at the industry as I've learned more and more about it. To this day I spend just about every hour of my free time closely studying and following the airline industry, reading books about it, talking about it with other aviation professionals and enthusiasts, and involving myself with it in just about every way possible. As a result... no social life, but so long as I have the many birds in the sky to watch and study, that's more than fine by me!

Say we Boise-members ought to do an SSP meet sometime. :)

[boisecynic]

The reason I bumped those other 2 threads is the June 27th ACHD follow up to the 30th St Extension open house of Feb 11:

Here: http://www.achdidaho.org/Projects/Media/87/1229_PIM_Response_Letter_062711.pdf

It looks to be a done deal now, the 30th Extension will be built and the grid streets will connect. In the letter ACHD politely and diplomatically thumbs its nose at the neighborhood nimbys. It's been a long hard road but thankfully ACHD is in the business of building roads the right way.

[Bodo_business]

...thankfully ACHD is in the business of building roads the right way.

I think you would doubt that if you saw what they are doing to "realign" State St. Bypass/Hwy 44 and Ballantyne. Seems to me that ACHD and DOT are doing their level set best to bring State St. traffic to a standstill. This new intersection will be the third new stoplight in as many years. They have taken an area that was already congested due to the road necking down to two lanes and produced gridlock during commute times.
:shrug:

[boiseaninexile]

Even with all of the bad news, the Boise area still continues to move forward. This filing is hopefully a harbinger of good things to come (jobs, development, high-tech jobs, etc.). See the link below.

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2011/07/19/rockybarker/transform_solar_applies_idaho_air_quality_permit

On another note, has anyone heard any more about the Zhonda U.S.A. headquarters? It popped up on Idaho Business Review and the Statesman and briefly on this forum. Now, I haven't heard any more about it. It could be huge. Anyone know anything?

[Cottonwood]

Even with all of the bad news, the Boise area still continues to move forward. This filing is hopefully a harbinger of good things to come (jobs, development, high-tech jobs, etc.). See the link below.

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2011/07/19/rockybarker/transform_solar_applies_idaho_air_quality_permit

On another note, has anyone heard any more about the Zhonda U.S.A. headquarters? It popped up on Idaho Business Review and the Statesman and briefly on this forum. Now, I haven't heard any more about it. It could be huge. Anyone know anything?

It was spoken of last week in the local press, I think it was KTVB and that the company is still working with the local entities to decide on a location in the valley.




This is also good news---

http://idahobusinessreview.com/2011/07/14/wells-fargo-adds-jobs-at-boise-service-center/
Wells Fargo adds jobs at Boise service center
by Brad Carlson
Published: July 14,2011
Time posted: 3:59 pm
Tags: Wells Fargo

Wells Fargo plans to hire 150 additional workers in July and August at its Boise customer contact center on Elder Street. The move will increase total staff at the center to about 600.

[el conquistador]

It was spoken of last week in the local press, I think it was KTVB and that the company is still working with the local entities to decide on a location in the valley.




This is also good news---

http://idahobusinessreview.com/2011/07/14/wells-fargo-adds-jobs-at-boise-service-center/
Wells Fargo adds jobs at Boise service center
by Brad Carlson
Published: July 14,2011
Time posted: 3:59 pm
Tags: Wells Fargo

Wells Fargo plans to hire 150 additional workers in July and August at its Boise customer contact center on Elder Street. The move will increase total staff at the center to about 600.

As for the Zonda deal, any impact from the state Republicans inquiring into Otter's dealings with China? :shrug:

[Cottonwood]

Say we Boise-members ought to do an SSP meet sometime. :)

Sounds good, I think there was a meet up several years ago, I didn't go but remember it being talked about.

[Visualize]

Valley rental vacancy rates hit 5-year low

Property managers say demand is enticing investors back into the market
By Sandra Forester, sforester@idahostatesman.com, and Steve Brown, The Dallas Morning News - Idaho Statesman
Published: 07/20/11

Read more: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/07/20/1732253/valley-rental-vacancy-rates-hit.html#ixzz1SfoFpDlh

Demand is driving sales and construction of multiple-family housing across the Valley. In the first six months of 2011, 38 duplexes, four triplexes, 35 four-plexes and seven apartment buildings have been sold in Ada County. A developer is seeking a permit to build a $7 million, three-story apartment building with 53 units for senior citizens at 12th and River streets in downtown Boise.

[Boysee Boi]

:previous: Maybe these conditions could help the Capitol Terrace Apartments finally get built. That is if it's not completely dead by now...

[Visualize]

^^^ Good thought, that would be nice to see happen.

[Cottonwood]

http://www.boiseweekly.com/Cobweb/archives/2011/07/21/boise-style-in-new-york-times

Fashion: Boise Style in New York Times
Posted by Deanna Darr on Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 2:00 PM

Photographer Thomas Lea's image showed up in the New York Times photo slideshow earlier this week in a blog about the trend of neon. Lea is no stranger to highlighting fashion and style in Boise. His blog Boise Style, is the go-to website to find images of bold Boise fashionistas (and fashionistos). Lea's image is sandwiched between pics from London and Paris, so at least he's in good company.



http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2011/07/18/fashion/streetstyle-neon-8.html



http://www.boisestyle.com/

[andyroo]

I saw this on the news tonight. I'm all for it if it ends up downtown.

http://www.ktvb.com/news/Civic-and-business-leaders-on-board-with-new-stadium-125995608.html

[Boisebro]

I saw this on the news tonight. I'm all for it if it ends up downtown.

http://www.ktvb.com/news/Civic-and-business-leaders-on-board-with-new-stadium-125995608.html

here's a conceptual rendering of the new ballpark... sounds like one possible location is at 30th and main on the river:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v347/boisebro/BoiseHawksStadiumColor8-17-10-1.jpg

[boisecynic]

Deleted mistake

[boisecynic]

That rendering appears to be the site where the Riverside Medical Center was supposed to be, right along side the connector, east of 27th and west of 25th south of Main. Wouldn't want a foul ball flying out on to the freeway. It would be the kind of advertising that money can't buy though, not a ball through a windshield, the view of the stadium for those driving. This would be, for lack of a better expression, totally awesome.

[BoiseAirport]

here's a conceptual rendering of the new ballpark... sounds like one possible location is at 30th and main on the river:



I'M IN LOVE!

As much as I would love to see this ballpark downtown (and believe me, I would have zero complaints if that's where it ended up), I personally think the best place for it is tucked near the river and the greenbelt. What a wonderful atmosphere that would be for a baseball game. While if it were up to me I might've tweaked a few things in the conceptual drawing, I would be 100% thrilled if what's seen in the rendering is what ended up getting built. As boisecynic said, that would be totally awesome for lack of better word.

Please oh please oh please, don't let this be built in Meridian or Nampa. :hell:

[Evo5Boise]

I hope that stadium gets done. It would also be nice if they would build the capacity to around 10k.

[boi2socal]

Although I do find it relatively unnecessary unless the field in Garden City is, in fact, going to be gone at some point, I think this would be a great location. This area can be a great extension of Downtown and has great potential.

[alphawolf]

Its still the west side of downtown and a perfect use of those lots. Also it would be a great catalyst for that area.

[StevenF]

Its still the west side of downtown and a perfect use of those lots. Also it would be a great catalyst for that area.

I hope so. It didn't work out so well for Spring Mobile Park in Salt Lake City at getting the area to clean up. But I would imagine if that park has retail on the outside of it as the picture shows, that should help. It also doesn't help that Salt Lakes Ballpark is a good 1 1/2 miles south of downtown.

[trekkerguy]

Absolutely 100% LOVE this. As a huge baseball fan(Go Tampa Bay!) I'd really like to see it take more of a center stage in Boise and help grow our reputation as a great sports city. If built exactly like the rendering... perfect. I actually think the rendering is showing it built on the empty lot pinned here, but I may be wrong: http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/#/3cpn6wsb7mjk7785 (You may need Silverlight to view the map).

Location is fantastic, at the western edge of downtown and right off the connector and near the river with beautiful view of the skyline and foothills. Picturesque.

I think it could drastically change the future of that part of town, with retail shops and restaurants seemingly built on(in the rendering which is of course not final) and the businesses it would draw to the area. Hell, I'd very seriously considering moving to that part of town so I could be within walking distance of the park. I can see it establishing a new cornerstone for downtown and helping fill in between the park and the main DT core.

As for size and use, even though I'm not a huge soccer fan I'd also support a USL team if it helped bring us the stadium. The more local sports the better.
5,000 seats would fit current needs for a single A minor league club, but with the city growing and if they intend to try to lure a AAA team in the future I think it would be a good idea to build closer to 6-7,000 or so with built in plans for expansion to meet the needs of a higher profile team later. Perhaps something similar to the above design but with plans in place for several upper level sections to add another couple thousand seats. That way it keeps initial cost down and we're still able to adjust for the future.

KTVB's Jamie Grey(@KTVBJamieGrey) said on twitter that civic and business leaders will be making an announcement regarding the stadium next Thursday.

Sorry for the long post, just really excited about this possibility :ahhh:

[BoiseAirport]

Absolutely 100% LOVE this. As a huge baseball fan(Go Tampa Bay!) I'd really like to see it take more of a center stage in Boise and help grow our reputation as a great sports city. If built exactly like the rendering... perfect. I actually think the rendering is showing it built on the empty lot pinned here, but I may be wrong: http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/#/3cpn6wsb7mjk7785 (You may need Silverlight to view the map).

Location is fantastic, at the western edge of downtown and right off the connector and near the river with beautiful view of the skyline and foothills. Picturesque.

I think it could drastically change the future of that part of town, with retail shops and restaurants seemingly built on(in the rendering which is of course not final) and the businesses it would draw to the area. Hell, I'd very seriously considering moving to that part of town so I could be within walking distance of the park. I can see it establishing a new cornerstone for downtown and helping fill in between the park and the main DT core.

As for size and use, even though I'm not a huge soccer fan I'd also support a USL team if it helped bring us the stadium. The more local sports the better.
5,000 seats would fit current needs for a single A minor league club, but with the city growing and if they intend to try to lure a AAA team in the future I think it would be a good idea to build closer to 6-7,000 or so with built in plans for expansion to meet the needs of a higher profile team later. Perhaps something similar to the above design but with plans in place for several upper level sections to add another couple thousand seats. That way it keeps initial cost down and we're still able to adjust for the future.

KTVB's Jamie Grey(@KTVBJamieGrey) said on twitter that civic and business leaders will be making an announcement regarding the stadium next Thursday.

Sorry for the long post, just really excited about this possibility :ahhh:

Totally agreed! :cool:

IMO, it's best to start small, but pave the way for easy, cost-effective future expansion if needed. The one thing that makes me wonder in the rendering is whether future expansion might be difficult if it's so close to the highway.

A great College Football team, a Triple-A Minor League Baseball team, a USL Soccer team, an ECHL hockey team, and an NBA D-League for a metro of 650,000. That would be pretty impressive for a city our size, compare that to cities like Albuquerque, Richmond, Fresno, and Spokane. Boise is a great sports town, which makes sense since we're a pretty active and outdoorsy city.

[City Of Trees]

Boise is a great sports town, which makes sense since we're a pretty active and outdoorsy city.If anything, I'd imagine that an active and outdoorsy city would create less of an interest for spectator sports. I agree with you with regards to Boise, though.

[trekkerguy]

If anything, I'd imagine that an active and outdoorsy city would create less of an interest for spectator sports. I agree with you with regards to Boise, though.

I'd think Denver, Seattle and Boise may take exception to that :tup:

[Evo5Boise]

Boise definitely has been good at supporting their teams in my opinion. I was even sad to see the Burn leave!

[SLC Projects]

Hey, boise. Im in town staying overnight at one of the hotels near downtown. First time ever being here. It sure is hot today in boise, do i dare to wear my utah utes jacket? :)

[Boysee Boi]

Welcome to town Projects... Just passing through? I think you're free to wear your jacket. If you get any funny looks it will only be due to the fact that you're wearing a jacket in 100 degree weather... :haha:

You going to take in any sights/activities while you're here?

[trekkerguy]

Boise definitely has been good at supporting their teams in my opinion. I was even sad to see the Burn leave!

Especially since they were invited to join the reformed AFL... I really hope we one day get an Arena team again, I took my mom to see them and she even loved it. It's a lot of fun to hit up dinner downtown then catch an exciting football game up close.

[SLC Projects]

Welcome to town Projects... Just passing through? I think you're free to wear your jacket. If you get any funny looks it will only be due to the fact that you're wearing a jacket in 100 degree weather... :haha:

You going to take in any sights/activities while you're here?

Thanks. Just passing through. Only spending one night here before we leave for seattle tomorrow morning. We did get to drive around downtown boise for the first time. I must say i was stunned to see all the restaurants in downtown. I really like north 8 street ( i think that was the name of the street ) with all the live activity......even for a sunday. You guys just need to get some downtown development activity going on. I didnt see any cranes, but i did notice a site that has underground parking that is unfinish and is all broaded up. Im guessing it might of been the site of where boise tower would of gone. I hope you guys get somthing there soon. But over all downtown boise seems like a great place, i just wish i had more time to get out my car and walk the streets of downtown. I will need to make time to come back and do that. You guys have a nice downtown.

[Cottonwood]

Hey, boise. Im in town staying overnight at one of the hotels near downtown. First time ever being here. It sure is hot today in boise, do i dare to wear my utah utes jacket? :)

I was going to ask if you came up to see Kati Perry at BSU or to see MC Hammer at the Boise Music Fest:haha: Don't wear a jacket, a lot of guys in Boise during hot summer days just rip their shirts off and show it off to the rest of the city, but you have to be in shape to do so. :coolugh:
Enjoy Seattle, it is a great weekend road trip from Boise.

[boi2socal]

Since people have posted airport news...Southwest downsizing at BOI. Southwest will end non-stop flights from Boise to Seattle, Salt Lake and Reno. Roughly a 1/3 of their flights at Boise. Win for Alaska and Delta as these routes will have no non-stop competition.

http://www.blogsouthwest.com/blog/schedules-extended-march-9-2012

[Cottonwood]

Since people have posted airport news...Southwest downsizing at BOI. Southwest will end non-stop flights from Boise to Seattle, Salt Lake and Reno. Roughly a 1/3 of their flights at Boise. Win for Alaska and Delta as these routes will have no non-stop competition.

http://www.blogsouthwest.com/blog/schedules-extended-march-9-2012

They are cutting flights all across the nation. Looks like per the blog link that these are temporary suspensions and flights will return in February.
Any details as to why?

[boi2socal]

They are cutting flights all across the nation. Looks like per the blog link that these are temporary suspensions and flights will return in February.
Any details as to why?

No, these flights will not return. Boise is under "Markets we are exiting on a nonstop basis:".

[City Of Trees]

I am extremely unhappy at this news. It also makes absolutely no sense why they would kill those three locations. If anything, those seem like they would be the most common locations for connecting flights. Can anyone explain the logic here?

[GrandTeton]

Whenever I fly to Boise, I take Alaska. It's cheaper than southwest, so it makes sense why they would cut that flight.

[Cottonwood]

No, these flights will not return. Boise is under "Markets we are exiting on a nonstop basis:".

I missed that header in the blog link. So long SW.



Whenever I fly to Boise, I take Alaska. It's cheaper than southwest, so it makes sense why they would cut that flight.

I never flew SW either, and always use other airlines when I fly in or out of town.

[BoiseAirport]

Alaska/Horizon and Southwest have been competiting in a pretty fierce battle for the Pacific NW, and with $100+ per barrel oil, the routes couldn't sustain the amount of service that was there. Southwest blinked first, and now is cutting those routes.

However, personally I don't see this as being all that terrible of a thing, or at least I think it's too early to say that. The net result of this is that Alaska/Horizon will add capacity on BOI-SEA, and may even add BOI-RNO. Some of you might remember the mini-hub that Horizon had in Boise from the 90s-2000s, where Horizon was operating near 50 daily flights to 13-16 destinations (compared to 12 daily flights to 4 destinations we have today). The thing that really put a strain on the mini-hub was competition from Southwest. True, fares will likely rise as a result of Southwest leaving these markets, but I think one of the things that played a role in the growth of Boise in the 1990s and 2000s was the mini-hub that Horizon had. The result of that hub was tens of thousands of passengers transfering through BOI, giving them strong exposure to the Treasure Valley they wouldn't have otherwise seen, and when companies are looking to move jobs, air service plays a vital role. Having a mini-hub like Horizon had is a huge bonus. I don't know for certain whether that will return, but I can guarantee it would not with Southwest still in the picture.

But the sad truth was the status quo was unsustainable. Boise has always been one of Southwest's most underperforming markets, so honestly I've been seeing this coming for a while. It wouldn't shock me if 5-7 years from now, Southwest was no longer serving Boise.

EDIT: Also it should be noted that Southwest is not exiting the Boise market. They're still offering flights to Spokane, Oakland, Las Vegas, Portland and Denver.

[City Of Trees]

But the sad truth was the status quo was unsustainable. Boise has always been one of Southwest's most underperforming markets, so honestly I've been seeing this coming for a while. It wouldn't shock me if 5-7 years from now, Southwest was no longer serving Boise.

EDIT: Also it should be noted that Southwest is not exiting the Boise market. They're still offering flights to Spokane, Oakland, Las Vegas, Portland and Denver.This is truly fascinating for me to learn, as I've been a consistent Southwest customer for over a decade now, and it never seemed like they had any problems with their flights filling up. Of course, I'll cede to your expertise on the matter. I'll ask you this: why those three locations over the others? They always seemed to be core for connecting flights out of Boise. If I had to guess what they would cancel, I would have gone with Spokane and Denver at the top of the list. Goes to show what I know.

Looks like I'll have to get used to Alaska if you are right. Do they still use mainly props for the flights out of here? That sound has always driven me nuts. Higher fares and baggage fees are not going to be fun, either. :(

[BoiseAirport]

This is truly fascinating for me to learn, as I've been a consistent Southwest customer for over a decade now, and it never seemed like they had any problems with their flights filling up. Of course, I'll cede to your expertise on the matter. I'll ask you this: why those three locations over the others? They always seemed to be core for connecting flights out of Boise. If I had to guess what they would cancel, I would have gone with Spokane and Denver at the top of the list. Goes to show what I know.

Looks like I'll have to get used to Alaska if you are right. Do they still use mainly props for the flights out of here? That sound has always driven me nuts. Higher fares and baggage fees are not going to be fun, either. :(

Truthfully I don't know why they chose Seattle, Salt Lake and Reno (I would guess low yields, a full aircraft doesn't necessarily mean a profitable aircraft if you can't sell those seats with an economical return). I actually would've thought Portland and Denver would've gone before Seattle, but I don't know the individual route performance of Southwest's flights, just the overall average load factor and yield for all routes operated by Southwest out of Boise in comparison to their other markets.

Also to note, that doesn't necessarily mean Southwest wasn't making a profit out of Boise. I suspect they were making a marginal profit hence why they've stayed here for so long, it's just they felt there were better markets to go after now that the airline is changing its business model so rapidly.

Interestingly, Boise to Seattle is one of Horizon's top 3 performing markets, so with Southwest out of the market I have a hunch we'll see Alaska Airlines take over a few of the Horizon flights with Boeing 737 aircraft, so perhaps it may not be 100% props in those markets. Also, I wouldn't lose hope entirely on Southwest re-entering these markets in the future.

[ATLonthebrain]

Southwest also serves PHX nonstop from BOI, fyi. So, 6 nonstop routes will remain. RNO & SLC began to suffer even more with the addition of PHX & DEN service, respectively. As recently as 2-years ago, Southwest served SLC, RNO, GEG, PDX, & SEA 3x daily. All of those markets were reduced to 2x daily, and now 3 of 5 are going away completely. The simple fact is the economy and high local unemployment rate are keeping people away from air travel at historic levels. BOI's passenger traffic remains 15% below its peak of 3.36 million in '07. That has everything to do with the economy, and it doesn't seem any significant improvement is on the horizon. Very unfortunate but, if the passengers aren't there, AND paying a fare which allows for profitable service, it will cease to exist. Harsh reality, as demonstrated with today's announcement. Hopefully Alaska adds capacity to SEA, perhaps even resuming mainline service, but it's too soon to know how the airline will respond. I'm certain it is analyzing its options and will make a decision by fall.

Also, I'm of the belief that Southwest is gearing up for its official march into ATL next year when the integration of AirTran is in full swing, and it will likely add a few dozen trips there almost immediately. The aircraft have to come from somewhere, and it seems logical that reducing service in unprofitable markets would be the first move in freeing up aircraft time to expand elsewhere.

[boi2socal]

Honestly, I just see a rise in airfare on these routes before additional seats. Both Alaska and Horizon are short on aircraft. Delta changes their schedules every five minutes, I noticed when booking trips this summer some days had as many as four mainline Delta jets to/from SLC.

I doubt Southwest will ever leave. Reno had been suspended before and brought back. Passenger counts are flat from last year at BOI, which surprises me with the additional service there. I expected a very slight uptick.

[Cottonwood]

More baseball and soccer stadium news....entire article at the link.


http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/whole-new-ball-game-soccer-could-help-hawks-with-new-stadium/Content?oid=2371231

Whole New Ball Game: Soccer could help Hawks with New Stadium
Combo sports stadium could mean new digs for local teams
by Greg Simons


The Boise Hawks were at the leading edge when the nation's stadium-building renaissance began about a quarter of a century ago. Now they're hoping to catch the trailing edge.

A recent market viability analysis commissioned by the Boise City Council and undertaken by Conventions Sports and Leisure looked at the viability of building a new multi-purpose stadium in Boise--and what adding a Premier Development League soccer team to Boise's landscape would do to help make it a more attractive proposition.



Hawks management has been talking to United Soccer Leagues about adding a Boise franchise to the Northwest Division of the Premier Development League--the country's top amateur soccer league--which would share the proposed new stadium's playing space.

Todd Rahr, Hawks president and general manager, emphasized his organization's desire to add a soccer team.

"Soccer is a major part of our planning," Rahr said. "It will help make this facility work. If we get [a multi-purpose stadium] done, we want one of their franchises."

Jeff McRaney, PDL senior director, shares that enthusiasm.

"[Boise] is a great market, and one we'd like to be in," he said.

[ATLonthebrain]

Keep in mind that the Southwest service isn't going away until Jan '12. It's over 5-months from happening. AS has nothing but time on its hands and knows it will have a monopoly on the market at that point, but it also knows there is much more demand in the market (the top nonstop market from BOI happens to be SEA) than what it can carry at existing capacity levels. Sure, it could choose to raise fares only and remain at current capacity. But, I believe both higher fares and higher capacity on the route will result by Summer 2012. Yes, there is a shortage of aircraft within the Alaska Air Group fleet but, just as WN has chosen to do, aircraft are moved around the network in an effort to maximize revenue and profitability. When an airline wants to make a change, it can and it does. This is a true opportunity for AS to seize the moment and shut the door on anyone else entering the BOI-SEA market anytime soon. While RNO has a respectable level of local traffic, it just may not "fit" in the eyes of the guys in SEA. Reality is that RNO will be incredibly more difficult to reach after 1/8/12, and it will certainly cost more to do it along with a connection (greatly increased total travel time).

DL's schedule is no different than UA's in BOI, quite frankly. UA adjusts frequency on both its LAX (1-2 daily) and SFO (4-5 daily) routes. DL does the same to SLC, depending upon day of week. It is hard for an outsider to gauge the reasoning for this, but there is a pattern. Internally I would expect there is a clear reasoning for the day-of-week capacity and/or frequency adjustment. DL is reducing its BOI-SLC capacity in Sept from 8 to 6 daily. With today's announcement, perhaps that will return to 8 by next spring, or more of the CRJ's will be upgauged to mainline with a net increase in seats.

The big loser here is the passenger in the BOI-RNO market.

Also, by then, there will likely be other announcements for air service @ BOI which may not be a direct replacement of this reduced service, but will begin rebuilding the overall seat capacity for the airport. Southwest just made it a lot tougher for BOI to slowly claw its way out of the pit that began 3-years ago and persists today.

[BoiseAirport]

Keep in mind that the Southwest service isn't going away until Jan '12. It's over 5-months from happening. AS has nothing but time on its hands and knows it will have a monopoly on the market at that point, but it also knows there is much more demand in the market (the top nonstop market from BOI happens to be SEA) than what it can carry at existing capacity levels. Sure, it could choose to raise fares only and remain at current capacity. But, I believe both higher fares and higher capacity on the route will result by Summer 2012. Yes, there is a shortage of aircraft within the Alaska Air Group fleet but, just as WN has chosen to do, aircraft are moved around the network in an effort to maximize revenue and profitability. When an airline wants to make a change, it can and it does. This is a true opportunity for AS to seize the moment and shut the door on anyone else entering the BOI-SEA market anytime soon. While RNO has a respectable level of local traffic, it just may not "fit" in the eyes of the guys in SEA. Reality is that RNO will be incredibly more difficult to reach after 1/8/11, and it will certainly cost more to do it along with a connection (greatly increased total travel time).

DL's schedule is no different than UA's in BOI, quite frankly. UA adjusts frequency on both its LAX (1-2 daily) and SFO (4-5 daily) routes. DL does the same to SLC, depending upon day of week. It is hard for an outsider to gauge the reasoning for this, but there is a pattern. Internally I would expect there is a clear reasoning for the day-of-week capacity and/or frequency adjustment. DL is reducing its BOI-SLC capacity in Sept from 8 to 6 daily. With today's announcement, perhaps that will return to 8 by next spring, or more of the CRJ's will be upgauged to mainline with a net increase in seats.

The big loser here is the passenger in the BOI-RNO market.

Also, by then, there will likely be other announcements for air service @ BOI which may not be a direct replacement of this reduced service, but will begin rebuilding the overall seat capacity for the airport. Southwest just made it a lot tougher for BOI to slowly claw its way out of the pit that began 3-years ago and persists today.

Could not have said it better myself. Absolutely nailed it. :)

Just a guess on my part, I don't have knowledge how DL works their schedule, but I would guess Delta uses a computer program based on formulas and alogrithms of past traffic data to determine probable future passenger traffic and generate schedule recommendations for each individual day. LOL, I'm not sure how that department works, but that would be my guess.

[Boisebro]

More baseball and soccer stadium news....entire article at the link.


http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/whole-new-ball-game-soccer-could-help-hawks-with-new-stadium/Content?oid=2371231

Whole New Ball Game: Soccer could help Hawks with New Stadium
Combo sports stadium could mean new digs for local teams
by Greg Simons


The Boise Hawks were at the leading edge when the nation's stadium-building renaissance began about a quarter of a century ago. Now they're hoping to catch the trailing edge.

A recent market viability analysis commissioned by the Boise City Council and undertaken by Conventions Sports and Leisure looked at the viability of building a new multi-purpose stadium in Boise--and what adding a Premier Development League soccer team to Boise's landscape would do to help make it a more attractive proposition.



Hawks management has been talking to United Soccer Leagues about adding a Boise franchise to the Northwest Division of the Premier Development League--the country's top amateur soccer league--which would share the proposed new stadium's playing space.

Todd Rahr, Hawks president and general manager, emphasized his organization's desire to add a soccer team.

"Soccer is a major part of our planning," Rahr said. "It will help make this facility work. If we get [a multi-purpose stadium] done, we want one of their franchises."

Jeff McRaney, PDL senior director, shares that enthusiasm.

"[Boise] is a great market, and one we'd like to be in," he said.


hmmm.

i'm not sure how you'd create a multi-purpose facility for both baseball and soccer. the baseball/football multi-purpose stadiums of the past make the experience worse for both. and the footprint of a soccer field is larger than a football field.

it would be a shame if the stadium ends up being a modular facility... the ones i've experience have completely lacked charm.

[202_Cyclist]

i'm not sure how you'd create a multi-purpose facility for both baseball and soccer. the baseball/football multi-purpose stadiums of the past make the experience worse for both. and the footprint of a soccer field is larger than a football field.

When the Nationals first moved to DC from Montreal, the stadium was used for both baseball and soccer.

[el conquistador]

When the Nationals first moved to DC from Montreal, the stadium was used for both baseball and soccer.

Municipal Stadium in Portland was what Portland State used for their football team before building a full time football facility out in Beaverton. It worked but the views were weird. I remember they reconfigured it for soccer a few times as well.

[Cottonwood]

The City and civic leaders seem determined on getting this done. Washington Trust and Key Bank are involved at the shindig Thursday, so does this maybe mean some financial backing is already secured?



http://www.boiseweekly.com/CityDesk/archives/2011/07/26/new-team-suits-up-to-find-ideal-spot-for-proposed-stadium


New Team Suits Up to Find Ideal Spot for Proposed Stadium

Posted by George Prentice on Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 2:56 PM
In the wake of a just-released market viability analysis of a new multipurpose stadium for Boise, a new group calling itself the Better Boise Coalition wants to step up to the plate.

"Where stadium projects have been well-planned, they have offered a tremendous boost to the local economy," said Bill Connors, president and CEO of the Boise Metro Chamber of Commerce.

The chamber, along with ownership of the Boise Hawks, and representatives from Washington Trust and Key Banks, will team up with Boise Mayor Dave Bieter on Thursday to take the lead on finding the ideal site for a new Boise stadium.

On June 29, Citydesk first reported that an analysis concluded that Boise could attract a higher caliber of baseball, could boost attendance to baseball games by as much as 43 percent, and could host a variety of varsity athletic events. Hawks ownership even expressed interest in purchasing a minor league soccer franchise to serve as a second anchor tenant" to a new stadium.

[Bodo_business]

http://www.ktvb.com/news/Local-company-shows-interest-in-developing-Boise-eyesore-126265268.html

There may be hope. Same company that has developed Portico, which appears to be a first class property.

[el conquistador]

http://www.ktvb.com/news/Local-company-shows-interest-in-developing-Boise-eyesore-126265268.html

There may be hope. Same company that has developed Portico, which appears to be a first class property.

Let's hope they can get something done there. Anything, at this point. I like that they have a track record of actually getting stuff built, too. :D

[andyroo]

http://www.ktvb.com/news/Local-company-shows-interest-in-developing-Boise-eyesore-126265268.html

There may be hope. Same company that has developed Portico, which appears to be a first class property.

Here's their commercial portfolio

http://www.gardnercompany.net/#/portfolio/commercial/

[BoiseAirport]

Here's their commercial portfolio

http://www.gardnercompany.net/#/portfolio/commercial/

I was getting worried there when I looked at their portfolio and all I was seeing were low-mid rises... and then I saw they developed One Utah Center, a building of the kind I feel would look so wonderful downtown. However, I won't get my hopes until I see a rendering of what they're planning. Anyway, the article says they're being cautious and looking at other sites in the valley... I wonder what they're planning.

Here's hoping they can get something done! At this point I'll take anything that isn't a parking lot or a parking garage. :cheers:

[Sawtooth]

Another chapter in the saga but this is exciting news.


COBE topped off today:cheers:

[GrandTeton]

I'm turned away by their portfolio. I think if they actually end up developing that land, it would turn out mediocre. Who knows, maybe I'll be surprised.

I'm excited that there is talk going on about the site again. Hopefully it'll attract more attention from other developers.

[isangpogi]

I'm not getting my hopes up about the hole anytime soon... To quote our president: "we've been left at the altar" many times before.

So the other day my wife and I were evaluating some options. Right now we use a credit card that gives us points on anything we spend then we can turn around and use those points on anything we want, even cash at a 100 point per dollar rate. Often, what we want to do with those points is fly so we started looking at what airline frequent flier cards could do for us. This is when we realized that from Boise, its hard to be loyal to just one airline. The airline we'd use to travel would depend greatly on where we were going. Chicago would be United, LA would be United or American. Vegas would be SW. Seattle and Portland would be on Alaska. I'm curious what frequent flyer programs work best for those on the forum...
So I started thinking about what the odds were that Alaska could come back in and reinstate Boise as some kind of focus city or minor hub. Their current hubs are only in the extreme NW. They hardly make sense for people unless their final destination is Seattle, Portland or Alaska. Think about how practical it would be for Alaska to use BOI to feed passengers from Spokane, Walla Walla, Tri-Cities, Yakima, Missoula, Bozeman, Great Falls, Idaho Falls, Sun Valley, etc through Boise and on to Los Angeles, Bay Area, Sacramento, Las Vegas, and so on. It wouldn't be the makings of a large, crucial hub but the way Alaska is set up right now only makes sense for those traveling to and from the extreme NW. This would also set up Boise Airport to be less effected by economic swings locally, as the airport would be used by the entire region. It also makes sense for travelers, as BOI is much easier and quicker to navigate than hubs like SLC or DEN. Maybe now that Southwest is scaling back, Alaska could use this to their advantage to build some loyalty in the area, especially as they rebrand themselves from "Horizon" to their new Alaska/Horizon (in small print) livery. Perusing this and other boards makes it obvious that Boisians have taken SW's actions quite personally.
Interesting though how every time I fly SW to and from BOI, the flight has been full. It may just be my experience, but its hard to see why the routes were so unprofitable with so much demand....

[boi2socal]

I'm not getting my hopes up about the hole anytime soon... To quote our president: "we've been left at the altar" many times before.

So the other day my wife and I were evaluating some options. Right now we use a credit card that gives us points on anything we spend then we can turn around and use those points on anything we want, even cash at a 100 point per dollar rate. Often, what we want to do with those points is fly so we started looking at what airline frequent flier cards could do for us. This is when we realized that from Boise, its hard to be loyal to just one airline. The airline we'd use to travel would depend greatly on where we were going. Chicago would be United, LA would be United or American. Vegas would be SW. Seattle and Portland would be on Alaska. I'm curious what frequent flyer programs work best for those on the forum...
So I started thinking about what the odds were that Alaska could come back in and reinstate Boise as some kind of focus city or minor hub. Their current hubs are only in the extreme NW. They hardly make sense for people unless their final destination is Seattle, Portland or Alaska. Think about how practical it would be for Alaska to use BOI to feed passengers from Spokane, Walla Walla, Tri-Cities, Yakima, Missoula, Bozeman, Great Falls, Idaho Falls, Sun Valley, etc through Boise and on to Los Angeles, Bay Area, Sacramento, Las Vegas, and so on. It wouldn't be the makings of a large, crucial hub but the way Alaska is set up right now only makes sense for those traveling to and from the extreme NW. This would also set up Boise Airport to be less effected by economic swings locally, as the airport would be used by the entire region. It also makes sense for travelers, as BOI is much easier and quicker to navigate than hubs like SLC or DEN. Maybe now that Southwest is scaling back, Alaska could use this to their advantage to build some loyalty in the area, especially as they rebrand themselves from "Horizon" to their new Alaska/Horizon (in small print) livery. Perusing this and other boards makes it obvious that Boisians have taken SW's actions quite personally.
Interesting though how every time I fly SW to and from BOI, the flight has been full. It may just be my experience, but its hard to see why the routes were so unprofitable with so much demand....
Horizon use to have a rather significant hub at Boise but dismantled it even before things got bad. Alaska/Horizon doesn't even fly to LAX from Boise anymore. They "gave" the service to American Eagle and codeshare on it. There are many other reasons that can be cited. Alaska is or is one of the most profitable airlines around right now, so they're doing something right. I just don't think Boise is in the equation, especially with the economy.

It would be great for Boise, but won't happen. Alaska jets may return to Boise, but only to Seattle.

[Boisebro]

I'm turned away by their portfolio. I think if they actually end up developing that land, it would turn out mediocre. Who knows, maybe I'll be surprised.

I'm excited that there is talk going on about the site again. Hopefully it'll attract more attention from other developers.

i'm not blown away by their work, either. nothing very creative or remarkable... but that may be the result of a conservative client base.

they already announced that the site will not be a high-rise, but much smaller when developed. i'm not sure how they can make such an expensive site that needs a lot of work financially viable without putting something fairly significant there.

and while i agree that something there is better than what we have, it's a shame that yet again the city will be getting less than what it deserves.

hopefully what they end up with will be more impressive than we think, and perhaps they'll build a unique and brilliant structure that boise finally deserves, and not one of these dull, half-built eyesores that our idiot design review committee members seem to cherish.

[Cottonwood]

The title of the Statesman article sounds like they are referring to the town whore finding a buyer. A few of their other project look ok, but I'm not a fan of a high rise of theirs in a nearby city, or the tacky outdoor mall, both are bland, so hopefully whatever they decide to build is a showcase no matter how tall it is.



http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/07/28/1741618/boises-notorious-hole-finds-buyer.html


Boise’s notorious Downtown hole finds buyer

BY JOE ESTRELLA - jestrella@idahostatesman.com
Copyright: © 2011 Idaho Statesman
Published: 07/28/11



Tommy Ahlquist doesn’t want to make the same mistake made by previous developers pursuing the much-maligned Boise Tower site.

“We don’t want to make a bunch of promises that don’t make sense,” Ahlquist said.

Ahlquist, COO of Meridian-based Gardner Co., confirmed Wednesday that the company has signed a contract to acquire the property at the northwest corner of 8th and Main streets from Capps Holdings LLC.






Read more: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/07/28/1741618/boises-notorious-hole-finds-buyer.html#ixzz1TPRku14S

[isangpogi]

I for one, would like to see the Boise Hole added to the national register of historic places, and preserved as-is (foundation, rebar and all) for future generations. I don't think we should pursue developing the Boise hole as it's been a central fixture in the downtown environment for years now. I have memories, from when I used to work downtown, of walking by it as I strolled during my lunch break. Artists have decorated the hole's exterior fence, and have been able to raise awareness of hunger and other problems in our community. I feel the hole's historic value far outweighs any value it has of actually getting developed into anything. It will always be there to remind us of the consequences of lofty goals and the greed of commercial developers. Anyone with me on this??? Anyone?? ;)

[el conquistador]

I for one, would like to see the Boise Hole added to the national register of historic places, and preserved as-is (foundation, rebar and all) for future generations. I don't think we should pursue developing the Boise hole as it's been a central fixture in the downtown environment for years now. I have memories, from when I used to work downtown, of walking by it as I strolled during my lunch break. Artists have decorated the hole's exterior fence, and have been able to raise awareness of hunger and other problems in our community. I feel the hole's historic value far outweighs any value it has of actually getting developed into anything. It will always be there to remind us of the consequences of lofty goals and the greed of commercial developers. Anyone with me on this??? Anyone?? ;)

I'm in! :notacrook: :D :cheers:

[boi2socal]

Although it is the center of Downtown now, it won't be in the future. There are plenty of other lots where something exciting can be built down the road. The fact they're even considering Downtown should be exciting enough given the economy.

[BoiseAirport]

Although it is the center of Downtown now, it won't be in the future. There are plenty of other lots where something exciting can be built down the road. The fact they're even considering Downtown should be exciting enough given the economy.

That's kind of my feeling about it too... it's not like this is our one and only shot to get a signature tower downtown, not even close to our only shot. If a developer wants to put something grand in downtown, there are many other lots that would be fantastic for it, near the heart of downtown. I wouldn't get too worked up if what ends up being built there isn't a high-rise, just so long as it's a beautiful, architecturally sound structure.

I'll preserve judgement until I see a proposal. :)

[Sawtooth]

That's kind of my feeling about it too... it's not like this is our one and only shot to get a signature tower downtown, not even close to our only shot. If a developer wants to put something grand in downtown, there are many other lots that would be fantastic for it, near the heart of downtown. I wouldn't get too worked up if what ends up being built there isn't a high-rise, just so long as it's a beautiful, architecturally sound structure.

I'll preserve judgement until I see a proposal. :)

Me too. It does not need to be our tallest but should still be at least 10 floors or more to be worthy.

In a perfect world the beautiful old Eastman Building would still be there and not burned down by arson or whatever happened that caused its death by fire.

[el conquistador]

That's kind of my feeling about it too... it's not like this is our one and only shot to get a signature tower downtown, not even close to our only shot. If a developer wants to put something grand in downtown, there are many other lots that would be fantastic for it, near the heart of downtown. I wouldn't get too worked up if what ends up being built there isn't a high-rise, just so long as it's a beautiful, architecturally sound structure.

I'll preserve judgement until I see a proposal. :)

Using Portland as an example again, their signature tower (or at the very least their tallest building) is not smack in the center of the downtown core. It's kind of off to the east side.

Boise has plenty of room to grow. Get the hole filled with something, then once things start to pick up again look to any of the surface lots or vacant spaces in and around the downtown core.

[BoiseAirport]

Just found out that Horizon Air will be adding two more daily roundtrip flights between Boise and Seattle, meaning that we'll see 8 daily flights in the winter (typically 5-6), and 9-10 daily flights during the summer. FWIW, if it does go 9-10 daily in the summer, which I think it will, this is the most seats Alaska/Horizon has ever flown on this route.

It's good news for Seattle travelers as it shows that Alaska/Horizon aren't planning on raising the fares too much (checking flights in advance, the fares have actually stayed fairly steady). What a lot of airlines might've done under a similar monopoly is simply raise fares knowing the total amount of passengers flying would drop, because the airline is capturing a much larger percentage of the market, their load factors won't drop too much. So essentially they'd have the same load factors, with higher fares, which equals more money for the same cost.

So why would Alaska/Horizon add capacity knowing that would water down yields and lessen profits? Well, just as stated above by another forumer I think they are trying to bring in new customers, build loyalty and brand awareness... potentially to help the success of future added capacity if they feel the market can support it. Horizon Air and Southwest have long been battling for market share in the Boise and Spokane markets, and it seems that Horizon is clearly weakening Southwest for the first time in a long time, if ever. Personally if it were up to me, I would see this as being the perfect opportunity for Alaska/Horizon to start Q400 service to Reno, Spokane, Las Vegas and Oakland from Boise as a major strike against Southwest while they're down to try and push them out of the market entirely.

Also, Horizon Air recently took delivery of 8 Q400s over the last 3 months, most of which are sitting around as spares while the rest of the Q400s get painted into the new Alaska colors. Come August and September, Horizon Air is going to have excess capacity for what they currently need, as not only will they no longer need the spares, but the seasonal cuts during the winter time will free up even more aircraft. I would say from my perspective the addition of two daily flights from Boise to Seattle could well be the beginning of more additions to come.

[GrandTeton]

I think the hole should be a commercial building in the future, after all, the site in the central business district. A "Boise Place" type building should go on the west-side to encourage redevelopment of that area in the future.


Just found out that Horizon Air will be adding two more daily roundtrip flights between Boise and Seattle, meaning that we'll see 8 daily flights in the winter (typically 5-6), and 9-10 daily flights during the summer. FWIW, if it does go 9-10 daily in the summer, which I think it will, this is the most seats Alaska/Horizon has ever flown on this route.


Every time I have flown to Boise from Seattle and vice-versa, the plane is 100% full.

[City Of Trees]

Just found out that Horizon Air will be adding two more daily roundtrip flights between Boise and Seattle, meaning that we'll see 8 daily flights in the winter (typically 5-6), and 9-10 daily flights during the summer. FWIW, if it does go 9-10 daily in the summer, which I think it will, this is the most seats Alaska/Horizon has ever flown on this route.

It's good news for Seattle travelers as it shows that Alaska/Horizon aren't planning on raising the fares too much (checking flights in advance, the fares have actually stayed fairly steady). What a lot of airlines might've done under a similar monopoly is simply raise fares knowing the total amount of passengers flying would drop, because the airline is capturing a much larger percentage of the market, their load factors won't drop too much. So essentially they'd have the same load factors, with higher fares, which equals more money for the same cost.

So why would Alaska/Horizon add capacity knowing that would water down yields and lessen profits? Well, just as stated above by another forumer I think they are trying to bring in new customers, build loyalty and brand awareness... potentially to help the success of future added capacity if they feel the market can support it. Horizon Air and Southwest have long been battling for market share in the Boise and Spokane markets, and it seems that Horizon is clearly weakening Southwest for the first time in a long time, if ever. Personally if it were up to me, I would see this as being the perfect opportunity for Alaska/Horizon to start Q400 service to Reno, Spokane, Las Vegas and Oakland from Boise as a major strike against Southwest while they're down to try and push them out of the market entirely.

Also, Horizon Air recently took delivery of 8 Q400s over the last 3 months, most of which are sitting around as spares while the rest of the Q400s get painted into the new Alaska colors. Come August and September, Horizon Air is going to have excess capacity for what they currently need, as not only will they no longer need the spares, but the seasonal cuts during the winter time will free up even more aircraft. I would say from my perspective the addition of two daily flights from Boise to Seattle could well be the beginning of more additions to come.When, if ever, do you think Alaska would consider investing a 737 or the like on the BOI-SEA route?

[boi2socal]

When, if ever, do you think Alaska would consider investing a 737 or the like on the BOI-SEA route?

I knew a lot of people only flew Southwest because of Horizon's turboprops...so now that there are no competing jets on the route there is little reason to add an Alaska jet. Adding frequency is convenient for connecting passengers and business travelers. Plus the Q400 turboprop is fine for that length of a trip, just wish they would put sunshades on their planes!!!

[BoiseAirport]

I knew a lot of people only flew Southwest because of Horizon's turboprops...so now that there are no competing jets on the route there is little reason to add an Alaska jet. Adding frequency is convenient for connecting passengers and business travelers. Plus the Q400 turboprop is fine for that length of a trip, just wish they would put sunshades on their planes!!!

There might be a few good reasons to put a 737 on. For one, thanks to Boise's location in the mountain west time zone, a plane can depart Boise at 6:30am and arrive in Seattle at 6:35am local time. Based on my observation, and as I've heard from folks who worked there in the past, Alaska uses all of the RON (Remain-overnight) parking spots in Seattle that they have available. As such, one of the reasons why they have 737s on the Seattle to Spokane route is so they have additional spots to park aircraft overnight, which can be in Seattle by 6:30am, the morning rush. Boise also works for this as well. Additionally, there is a turboprop avoidance factor weighing in as you mention, and Alaska could put 1 or 2 737s to try and attract new customers who otherwise avoided Horizon's Q400s. Pretty much the same reasons why Alaska started service in 2003-2008. Now that there is more traffic, it wouldn't shock me to see it return. After all, if you can fill it, 1 737-800 has better economics than 2 Q400s.

I don't know if you've had a chance to fly on any of Horizon's 8 new Dash-8 Q400s, but all of the new deliveries have the very comfortable new NextGen interiors which are quieter, reduce noise vibration better, and *drumroll* have windowshades. :D

[isangpogi]

I don't know if you've had a chance to fly on any of Horizon's 8 new Dash-8 Q400s, but all of the new deliveries have the very comfortable new NextGen interiors which are quieter, reduce noise vibration better, and *drumroll* have windowshades. :D

They didn't have window shades before?? That'd be miserable on a morning flight if you got stuck on the wrong side of the plane.... Last December I flew the soon-to-be defunct BOI-RNO route on Southwest and we got on the East side of the plane as we headed south. We were cooking in there even with the shades down, it was a relief when we dropped down into Reno under the clouds...
I've never flown in a Turboprop before, from my understanding they can be quite bumpy in even small turbulence and rather loud... I've avoided them too as have others. Does anyone know what the Q400s are like inside? Are they roomy or cramped like the CRJs are?

[BoiseAirport]

They didn't have window shades before?? That'd be miserable on a morning flight if you got stuck on the wrong side of the plane.... Last December I flew the soon-to-be defunct BOI-RNO route on Southwest and we got on the East side of the plane as we headed south. We were cooking in there even with the shades down, it was a relief when we dropped down into Reno under the clouds...
I've never flown in a Turboprop before, from my understanding they can be quite bumpy in even small turbulence and rather loud... I've avoided them too as have others. Does anyone know what the Q400s are like inside? Are they roomy or cramped like the CRJs are?

Granted a lot of it really is in personal taste. I personally find the Q400 to be a fun ride especially for short hops like Boise to Seattle or Seattle to Portland/Spokane, I think I've logged over a hundred flights on them. The Q400s have a bit more space than a CRJ, but the difference isn't huge. Unfortunately, the older Q400s do not have windowshades, except for the 25th anniversary plane, not sure why, but I think ultimately down the road the goal is to retrofit all the Q400s to the NextGen interiors. On the plus side, Horizon does have free microbrews and wine. Here's a photo I snapped on a Horizon flight from Boise to Seattle FWIW...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-eqgoe_69yn4/TjJUfz18lEI/AAAAAAAAAXU/DdUlDs8fg_M/s912/VanKentucky%252520018.jpg

Say, maybe we ought to start a Boise Transportation Thread? Think there's enough interest to keep it going? :)

[boi2socal]

They didn't have window shades before?? That'd be miserable on a morning flight if you got stuck on the wrong side of the plane.... Last December I flew the soon-to-be defunct BOI-RNO route on Southwest and we got on the East side of the plane as we headed south. We were cooking in there even with the shades down, it was a relief when we dropped down into Reno under the clouds...
I've never flown in a Turboprop before, from my understanding they can be quite bumpy in even small turbulence and rather loud... I've avoided them too as have others. Does anyone know what the Q400s are like inside? Are they roomy or cramped like the CRJs are?

I don't think they're that bad. Glad they have shades now. I have flown on the Q400 more than any other aircraft and I can say my worst turbulence experiences were on other larger aircraft. I don't get to fly Horizon/Alaska anymore since they ended their BOI-LAX flights. Sad, since that was their first route outside of the PNW. I have Alaska miles so I fly American Eagle or Delta via SLC from a more convenient airport here in LA. For anyone on the West Coast or PNW, Alaska is the best frequent flyer program to have.

[City Of Trees]

Say, maybe we ought to start a Boise Transportation Thread? Think there's enough interest to keep it going? :)I would love to see this thread. :tup: Between the airport geek in you and the road geek in me, we could certainly keep the participation up.

[Cottonwood]

http://www.ktvb.com/news/Mayor-Boise-needs-new-Hawks-stadium-to-keep-the-team-126363863.html

Mayor: Boise needs new Hawks stadium to keep the team

Boise Mayor: 'It has to happen."

Some members of the newly-formed coalition and city leaders say Boise needs that stadium sooner rather than later.

"Together and with all of you, this is not only possible, it has to happen," Mayor Dave Bieter said. "I'll be straight ahead. The Hawks are looking around. There are other cities that are vying for franchises. There's a window here that we don't want to miss."

Bieter says that window will close in two to three years, and he believes the city should move on the idea immediately.

"Immediately, we need to act so as not to lose professional baseball in our area," Bieter said.





Hawks Management: Chicago Cubs could pull out

"After today's announcement, you can see that we've been working a lot with them to avoid the possibility that that ever happens," Boise Hawks President and General Manager Todd Rahr said.

Hawks management says they don't want to leave, but the current stadium is uncomfortable for fans, players, and their major league affiliate.

"Another major problem is the Cubs. They've said this is a substandard facility in their minds," Rahr said.

[ATLonthebrain]

Happy to see Alaska/Horizon add this capacity to the SEA route. I learned of this a few days ago and have been waiting for it to be released to the public. It's literally coming online the same day Southwest service ends. Perfect! And, it sets the stage for more to come in 2012. Stay tuned!

[Cottonwood]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoiseAirport
Say, maybe we ought to start a Boise Transportation Thread? Think there's enough interest to keep it going?


Quote:
Originally Posted by City Of Trees
I would love to see this thread. Between the airport geek in you and the road geek in me, we could certainly keep the participation up.



If you start a thread we should also include and discuss bike commuting too. We may not have light rail yet, but I would think we dominate in the MW region considering the bike culture and creative ways people here modify their bikes and bike trailers for their needs in order to not use an automobile. We could also discuss the plans in the metro for making bike commuting safer and adding the network of bike lanes to surface streets that don't currently have any.

[Cottonwood]

City Of Trees
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cottonwood
If you start a thread we should also include and discuss bike commuting too. We may not have light rail yet, but I would think we dominate in the MW region considering the bike culture and creative ways people here modify their bikes and bike trailers for their needs in order to not use an automobile. We could also discuss the plans in the metro for making bike commuting safer and adding the network of bike lanes to surface streets that don't currently have any.


City Of Trees

Completely agree. I'm a bike commuter myself so I would have plenty to contribute to that subject.

I'll wait for the thread to hunt for the Census Bureau links, but I'm pretty certain that I read in there that Boise has a higher percentage of bike commuters than San Francisco. I felt proud saying that to my brother in SF.

[Boisebro]

this website for the better boise coalition has a different rendering of the proposed ballpark with a football field in it:

http://www.bbcboise.com/

it also features a little more information about the proposal and details on supporting the effort.

[Cottonwood]

http://idahobusinessreview.com/2011/07/29/whole-foods-construction-timeline-on-schedule/


Whole Foods construction timeline on schedule
by Jennifer Gonzalez
Published: July 29,2011
Time posted: 2:15 pm

Cash registers will be ringing at Whole Foods in Boise a little more than a year from now. Rick Duggan, director of design and construction at Schlosser Development of Texas, confirmed that the project is going through the permitting phase, with construction expected to begin this fall. It will go out to bid to a pre-selected list of ...
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http://www.sdcaustin.com/project324876481097314.html

[Evo5Boise]

I do hope this gets done. The Boise Hawks stadium really is a joke these days. Boise deserves a nice baseball park in my opinion.

Also, good to hear about the Whole Foods project. What exactly was decided on the final plans for this site?

[Sawtooth]

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/001-13.jpg









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http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/006-14.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/009-17.jpg

[Sawtooth]

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/031-12.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/032-11.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/035-14.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/025-15.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/036-14.jpg









http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j214/Idahomajesty/038-9.jpg

[Visualize]

Man, I could really go for some Boise right now thanks to you Sawtooth. There aren't any ice shacks here in San Jo! I can't live without Tigers Blood. I've jumped off that bridge you took the last pics from, and the shock of the ice cold water is just what my system needs right now.

I really like the depth of your 3rd pic of the COBE building, very nice.

[Evo5Boise]

Man, I could really go for some Boise right now thanks to you Sawtooth. There aren't any ice shacks here in San Jo! I can't live without Tigers Blood. I've jumped off that bridge you took the last pics from, and the shock of the ice cold water is just what my system needs right now.

I really like the depth of your 3rd pic of the COBE building, very nice.

I just had an ice shack flavor debate with some friends today. Everybody seems to be a Tigers Blood fan. Personally, I love me some Bubblegum. :D

[Cottonwood]

Nice pics Sawtooth. The river looks inviting.

[Sawtooth]

Man, I could really go for some Boise right now thanks to you Sawtooth. There aren't any ice shacks here in San Jo! I can't live without Tigers Blood. I've jumped off that bridge you took the last pics from, and the shock of the ice cold water is just what my system needs right now.

I really like the depth of your 3rd pic of the COBE building, very nice.Thanks!

What, no ice shacks in san jose? What planet is that city on?!

[Visualize]

^^^ That's what I'm saying, I was shocked. It's either an absolutely monstrous untapped market or they don't allow them for some reason, but I don't see why that would be considering they have other parking lot vendors. Maybe I need to keep this to myself and create an ice shack monopoly since nobody I've talked to here have even heard of such a thing. Californians are so sheltered. :D

[Cottonwood]

Georthermal news in downtown:

http://www.boiseweekly.com/CityDesk/archives/2011/08/01/geothermal-construction-work-to-tangle-traffic-near-bw

Boise Geothermal Construction Work to Tangle Traffic Near BW
Posted by George Prentice on Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:47 PM
Road work will make things a bit tricky in Downtown Boise beginning tomorrow. In particular, crews will be digging on Broad Street between Fourth and Fifth streets (and yes, that includes the area surrounding BWHQ).

Boise officials tell Citydesk that the biggest impact will be periodic closures of Fifth Street between Myrtle and Front from Tuesday, Aug. 2, through Friday, Aug. 5. Crews are extending Boise's geothermal service to the new Concordia Law School.

Later this month, city crews will move further down Capitol Blvd. when they begin connecting a series of buildings at Boise State to the geothermal system. As a result, portions of Boise State's parking lots on the west side of campus will be periodically closed.

[boiseaninexile]

With the Hole showing signs of life, Micron's joint solar venture with the Aussies getting ready to start ramping up production, etc. Here is some more good news:

Boise State is moving and shaking ... should translate into more projects and buildings!

http://www.ktvb.com/news/Boise-State-surpasses-fundraising-goal-126576768.html

Also, a report shows that Idaho/Treasure Valley's GDP and economy are building steam:

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/08/02/1747049/analysts-at-bsu-see-better-times.html

Maybe downtown will start moving and shaking. By the way, has anyone heard anything new about JUMP? Are they going to get underway this year?

[Cottonwood]

Maybe downtown will start moving and shaking. By the way, has anyone heard anything new about JUMP? Are they going to get underway this year?

There is a thread dedicated to JUMP with an update posted last week.
Here is the title of that thread:

Boise:Jack's Place Simplot Foundations Massive 4 Block Downtown Project



There are also numerous other threads for Boise and Idaho in this forum. BoiseAirport started a new thread for Transportation last week, check it out.
(I'm just saying this because I think several forumers don't notice or forget there are other Boise and Idaho threads besides this one which are hanging out here at the Mountain West with info and usually are updated weekly).

[trekkerguy]

... there is more to a downtown than just tall shiney buildings, the most important aspect is what goes on at street level.


All that being said, I'd still like more shiny :tup: