[paladin]

I was home this weekend and got to visit downtown Mobile for awhile. It is really nice to see a lot of the development you read about first hand.

Mobile really looks good downtown. There is a lot of construction and renovation work going on. (More than other southern cities..) I saw the Courthouse is finally down, what a great piece of land.

The tower looks superb. What exactly are those free standing concrete columns going to be? Some sort of entrance element?

What currently resides in the Van Antwerp building, besides the restaurant? I noticed some of the windows were broken.

[Alxx611]

Yea, people don't realize how much better places look in real life than in pictures. Downtown is better in person.

[BamaGrad04]

Good article from yesterday's Press-Register. It had some good pics with it as well.:tup:


Up and coming downtown
Sunday, April 16, 2006
By KATHY JUMPER
Real Estate Editor

Three Clarkson townhouses on Dauphin Street near Cedar Street sold in the $270,000s while under construction, according to Chris King of Roberts Brothers. "There was a feeding frenzy when these buildings started going up," he said.

All but three of the 24 lofts at the Mattress Factory at 412-416 Dauphin St., have sold, and some of those have resold for a profit, said Lydia Craft of REMAX Partners. The units are priced at $209,000 to $219,000.

Those are but two examples of the increased demand for downtown residences that has local and out-of-town developers looking for buildings to renovate, Realtors said.

"We're running out of old buildings to buy, and the next mode will be doing the infill," or building new structures to fit vacant lots, said Tilmon Brown of JTB Group. He is building the lofts at the Mattress Factory and converting a couple of other downtown buildings into residential properties.

"I hired an Atlanta firm to do a study on downtown living, and they said 4 to 6 percent of the marketplace want to live in an urban environment," Brown said. "There is definitely a demand for condo units."

There are 1,370 people living in apartments, houses and condo units in the downtown area, according to city planners.

County Commission President Juan Chastang said last week that he would like to see 2,500 new residential units in the downtown area within the next three years. He also proposed that the county would work with a developer to build a high-rise condo tower at the site of the old county courthouse on Government and Royal streets.

The courthouse is being torn down and a Mardi Gras-themed park is proposed for part of the land.

The county would be willing to give the land to a developer for the condos, Chastang said. "The county would receive property taxes from it; it's not like we're throwing money away. If they need some reasonable incentives, we're willing to do that.

"We've got to do something bold and aggressive," he said. "We need to do something on this side of Water Street to spur other things downtown

The residential count on Water Street will increase when developers build the 239-unit Water Street Landing at the foot of Government Street near the Arthur R. Outlaw Mobile Convention Center. Prices for the units have not been announced.

"There's a demand for larger, nicer condo units, and with interest rates like they are, people who normally rent are able to buy," said John Peebles of Grubb & Ellis/Peebles & Cameron. He and some partners have bought two buildings downtown and plan to turn at least one into residences.

The nonprofit Oakleigh Venture Revolving Fund is building four Clarkson residential properties in an effort to use infill and "bring back some of the architectural style typical of Mobile," Roberts Brothers' King said. In addition to the three townhomes, the fourth building, a one-story Creole, is on the market as a single-family home for $276,900.

One problem for downtown developers is that some property owners have overpriced their buildings and would rather let them stand empty than sell them, according to Brown, who has almost finished restoring the Campbell Pharmacy building on Dauphin and St. Emanuel streets into retail and 11 apartments.

Forty-two people are on a waiting list for the apartments, which will be finished in late May, and a coffee shop and a deli are planned for the first-floor retail space, according to Brown. He also plans to build about 32 condo units in the former Buick building at Hamilton and St. Louis streets.

The renewed residential development is expected to bring more retail and commercial tenants, according to Realtors and developers.

"People say we're lacking a grocery store, but I've never lived anyplace where I've walked to a grocery store," said Devereaux Bemis, director of the Mobile Historic Development Commission and a downtown resident. A grocery store or deli market won't likely locate downtown until convention business increases, he said.

"We could use a little general store that would carry things for residences and stuff for travelers," he said. "But it would have to be nicely done and appealing to shoppers."

[BamaGrad04]

Good article from yesterday's Press-Register. It had some good pics with it as well.:tup:


Up and coming downtown
Sunday, April 16, 2006
By KATHY JUMPER
Real Estate Editor

Three Clarkson townhouses on Dauphin Street near Cedar Street sold in the $270,000s while under construction, according to Chris King of Roberts Brothers. "There was a feeding frenzy when these buildings started going up," he said.

All but three of the 24 lofts at the Mattress Factory at 412-416 Dauphin St., have sold, and some of those have resold for a profit, said Lydia Craft of REMAX Partners. The units are priced at $209,000 to $219,000.

Those are but two examples of the increased demand for downtown residences that has local and out-of-town developers looking for buildings to renovate, Realtors said.

"We're running out of old buildings to buy, and the next mode will be doing the infill," or building new structures to fit vacant lots, said Tilmon Brown of JTB Group. He is building the lofts at the Mattress Factory and converting a couple of other downtown buildings into residential properties.

"I hired an Atlanta firm to do a study on downtown living, and they said 4 to 6 percent of the marketplace want to live in an urban environment," Brown said. "There is definitely a demand for condo units."

There are 1,370 people living in apartments, houses and condo units in the downtown area, according to city planners.

County Commission President Juan Chastang said last week that he would like to see 2,500 new residential units in the downtown area within the next three years. He also proposed that the county would work with a developer to build a high-rise condo tower at the site of the old county courthouse on Government and Royal streets.

The courthouse is being torn down and a Mardi Gras-themed park is proposed for part of the land.

The county would be willing to give the land to a developer for the condos, Chastang said. "The county would receive property taxes from it; it's not like we're throwing money away. If they need some reasonable incentives, we're willing to do that.

"We've got to do something bold and aggressive," he said. "We need to do something on this side of Water Street to spur other things downtown

The residential count on Water Street will increase when developers build the 239-unit Water Street Landing at the foot of Government Street near the Arthur R. Outlaw Mobile Convention Center. Prices for the units have not been announced.

"There's a demand for larger, nicer condo units, and with interest rates like they are, people who normally rent are able to buy," said John Peebles of Grubb & Ellis/Peebles & Cameron. He and some partners have bought two buildings downtown and plan to turn at least one into residences.

The nonprofit Oakleigh Venture Revolving Fund is building four Clarkson residential properties in an effort to use infill and "bring back some of the architectural style typical of Mobile," Roberts Brothers' King said. In addition to the three townhomes, the fourth building, a one-story Creole, is on the market as a single-family home for $276,900.

One problem for downtown developers is that some property owners have overpriced their buildings and would rather let them stand empty than sell them, according to Brown, who has almost finished restoring the Campbell Pharmacy building on Dauphin and St. Emanuel streets into retail and 11 apartments.

Forty-two people are on a waiting list for the apartments, which will be finished in late May, and a coffee shop and a deli are planned for the first-floor retail space, according to Brown. He also plans to build about 32 condo units in the former Buick building at Hamilton and St. Louis streets.

The renewed residential development is expected to bring more retail and commercial tenants, according to Realtors and developers.

"People say we're lacking a grocery store, but I've never lived anyplace where I've walked to a grocery store," said Devereaux Bemis, director of the Mobile Historic Development Commission and a downtown resident. A grocery store or deli market won't likely locate downtown until convention business increases, he said.

"We could use a little general store that would carry things for residences and stuff for travelers," he said. "But it would have to be nicely done and appealing to shoppers."

[BamaGrad04]

Sorry bout the double post. :koko:

[pkp]

I was home this weekend and got to visit downtown Mobile for awhile. It is really nice to see a lot of the development you read about first hand.

Mobile really looks good downtown. There is a lot of construction and renovation work going on. (More than other southern cities..) I saw the Courthouse is finally down, what a great piece of land.

The tower looks superb. What exactly are those free standing concrete columns going to be? Some sort of entrance element?

What currently resides in the Van Antwerp building, besides the restaurant? I noticed some of the windows were broken.

Although I haven't heard anything about it, they are obviously renovating the Van Antwerp Bldg. I'm not sure if it is going to remain office space or if they are going long term for residential. I noticed they are working on the building beside the Van Antwerp (on Royal St) which was discussed as resident parking a few years back when the building was going to be converted into condos.

I like Chastang's aggresive view on dowtown residential. I belive we will in fact see 10,000 units within the Broad St/Canal St. Loop by 2010. I am not sure what the exact criteria is for "downtown" housing, but I think that is close. I hope we will be seeing more development North of Dauphin Street, and not just on the street itself. There is great opportunity to fill in parking lots along St. Louis and St. Francis St (and beyond).

[elb401]

I think thats a good goal. Its Pensacola's goal for their downtown and it was going to be John Peavy's goal during the election. I think the city is well on its way to that goal.

[pboo74]

don't take this the wrong way, but i think katrina was a blessing in disquise,there is so much development down there,hopefully there will be alot more high rises built downtown?MOBILE also needs to put a zoo or an aquarium downtown? what do you guys/ladies think?

[pkp]

^
There are too many aquariums as is. The Maritime Center needs to get rolling - that will be a big deal as it will the Gulf Coast's "National" Maritime Center.

[DruidCity]

There are too many aquariums as is.

They keep making $$$, though. Atlanta's now expects over
3 million visitors in its first year.

At some point, someone in Alabama is going to build one & Mobile
seems like the best fit. The architecture could fit very nicely with the maritime center, Government Plaza, etc.

[BamaGrad04]

^
There are too many aquariums as is. The Maritime Center needs to get rolling - that will be a big deal as it will the Gulf Coast's "National" Maritime Center.

Agreed, the Maritime Center/Museum is long overdue.

[Musicisright]

I think Gulf Shores recently announced plans to build an aquarium.

[pboo74]

''druidcity''yeah you are right atlanta is making a huge profit from the new aquaruim with all the vistors coming in town just for that.I think that's what mobile needs along with the maritime center?If mobile ever builds one watch and see how many vistors it'll attract....that's dollars in the city's pocket.....money in tha bank''''''''and there can never be too many aquaruims'''

[paladin]

Yea, people don't realize how much better places look in real life than in pictures. Downtown is better in person.

I mainly just didn't realize the sheer volume of projects. I have been in and around downtown Mobile for years. It has always seemed dreary and dirty but in the past 5 years the city has really cleaned it up.

Mobile was lucky to have a mayor like Mike Dow. (Hope he runs for Gov.):notacrook:

[paladin]

Although I haven't heard anything about it, they are obviously renovating the Van Antwerp Bldg.

I didn't know anything was going on at all with the VAn building, so that is excellent to hear. I love the old world look of the building. It reminds me alot of the City Federal building here in Birmingham. I love that type of building. :tup: http://flickr.com/photos/dystopos/123455380/



I like Chastang's aggresive view on dowtown residential. I belive we will in fact see 10,000 units within the Broad St/Canal St. Loop by 2010. I am not sure what the exact criteria is for "downtown" housing, but I think that is close. I hope we will be seeing more development North of Dauphin Street, and not just on the street itself. There is great opportunity to fill in parking lots along St. Louis and St. Francis St (and beyond).

So... two questions. Who is Chastang? (I'm seriously out of touch) And can Mobile seriously support 10k people wanting to live downtown. I read an article in the Mobile PR this weekend stating that 5%-7% (approx) of the metro population would be interested in living downtown. Once faced with the decision to move I imagine that number would shrink a bit. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge urban supporter.

I hope Mobile doesn't suffer the same fate that I fear Birmingham might. Over pricing the market for what it offers relative to the value. Birmingham, unlike Mobile, has horrible inner city schools and more crime downtown (as well crime ridden areas are much closer in proximity to the City Center in the Ham than Mobile) But the developments in Birmingham are extremely high priced for the market. I don't think your target demographic can afford a 250k or 325k + condo or loft.

[elb401]

Well 5%-7% of Mobile's metro is about 30,000 people. But yea I think 10,000 people is about enough. i think it will be fueled by locals at first and then by out of towners. There are a lot of none historic and empty lots all over downtown that are in need of some new "historic" construction. I hope that Mobile's downtown will stay reasonable and wont be over priced like in b-ham. oh chastang is the new county commissioner that replaced Jones when he became mayor.

[Musicisright]

Funny how we got on the subject of the Van Antwerp building...Just the other day I was at my late dad's apartment and found this while I was going through some stuff:

http://xs77.xs.to/pics/06163/van_antwerp.jpg

[Ted Ball]

Paladin- Do we really want to start comparing inner city school systems and crime rates? And if that's absolutely necessary, then let's base that on some objective statistics we can all look at and verify:( . Thanks

[Exodus]

I mainly just didn't realize the sheer volume of projects. I have been in and around downtown Mobile for years. It has always seemed dreary and dirty but in the past 5 years the city has really cleaned it up.

Mobile was lucky to have a mayor like Mike Dow. (Hope he runs for Gov.):notacrook:The first time I visited Mobile was back in 92, and many parts seemed dirty and dead. I visited a couple of more times or so in the next couple of years, and it was the same. Then a few years of not going down there passed, and when I visited again, it was like someone turned on the light switch.

[paladin]

Paladin- Do we really want to start comparing inner city school systems and crime rates? And if that's absolutely necessary, then let's base that on some objective statistics we can all look at and verify:( . Thanks

Relax partner. I was saying that Mobile is better than Birmingham on just about every factor or at least the important ones; crime rate, how decent the inner city schools are, and etc. I am not sure what you really meant by your post but I truly hope you're not trying to start something or taking my post out of context. :cool:

[paladin]

The first time I visited Mobile was back in 92, and many parts seemed dirty and dead. I visited a couple of more times or so in the next couple of years, and it was the same. Then a few years of not going down there passed, and when I visited again, it was like someone turned on the light switch.

I know it impressed me as well. It was almost like it was overnight that the cleanup occurred. I live in the area 90% of my life and moved away only in recent years. When I left it was still somewhat dirty (never like NO) but since the city has done a superb job.

[paladin]

Well 5%-7% of Mobile's metro is about 30,000 people. But yea I think 10,000 people is about enough. i think it will be fueled by locals at first and then by out of towners. There are a lot of none historic and empty lots all over downtown that are in need of some new "historic" construction. I hope that Mobile's downtown will stay reasonable and wont be over priced like in b-ham. oh chastang is the new county commissioner that replaced Jones when he became mayor.

I hope that 10k would want to live downtown, if I move back I would certainly like to. Mobile truly has ALOT of potential waiting to be developed.

[pboo74]

an aquarium tower would be very nice downtown ,built something like chattanoga's. have anybody heard about what the tower will look like where the mardi gras park is going to be?:cheers:

[elb401]

Dont know if its a done deal yet. Oh by the way Musicisright, that is a really cool picture.

[sahara727]

The tower looks superb. What exactly are those free standing concrete columns going to be? Some sort of entrance element?



the columns are the bases for six tall flagpoles...i'm guessing the six flags of mobile that appear on the city seal. if you go to the tower's website, you can see them on the ground in the rendering.

[Verve]

don't take this the wrong way, but i think katrina was a blessing in disquise,there is so much development down there,hopefully there will be alot more high rises built downtown?MOBILE also needs to put a zoo or an aquarium downtown? what do you guys/ladies think?


I agree that we need some additional attractions downtown -- something to draw the locals downtown more often as well as for tourists. In addition to some large scale major attractions, I'd like to see some signature attractions such as interactive fountains, eye-catching sculpture, murals, some type of market area for vendors, artisans, musicians, etc. and other things that will provide an incentive for more activity downtown.

[Verve]

Here are some shots of what I think are new apartments in the DeTonti Square area:


http://static.flickr.com/48/133093519_8daf10f912.jpg?v=0
http://static.flickr.com/52/133093517_e16051d5dc.jpg?v=0

[pboo74]

I agree that we need some additional attractions downtown -- something to draw the locals downtown more often as well as for tourists. In addition to some large scale major attractions, I'd like to see some signature attractions such as interactive fountains, eye-catching sculpture, murals, some type of market area for vendors, artisans, musicians, etc. and other things that will provide an incentive for more activity downtown.
your right some vending in the square or something to draw people.where is detoni square?what street? downtown?They look nice.

[Verve]

your right some vending in the square or something to draw people.where is detoni square?what street? downtown?They look nice.

They are located on North Claiborne Street between State and Congress. DeTonti Square is the historic neighborhood north of downtown that generally falls within the area bounded by Beauregard Street on the north, St. Joseph Street on the east, St. Louis Street on the south and Franklin Street on the west.

[pboo74]

They are located on North Claiborne Street between State and Congress. DeTonti Square is the historic neighborhood north of downtown that generally falls within the area bounded by Beauregard Street on the north, St. Joseph Street on the east, St. Louis Street on the south and Franklin Street on the west.
thanks'''''Verve'''''' i know exactly were that is ,do you know of any other development that's going on downtown?

[Musicisright]

There's a great article about all of the positive changes happening in Mobile in the most recent issue of Lagniappe. Here's the link to the article:http://www.lagniappemobile.com/article/255

Also, from the Mobile Magnified column:

"The State of the County and City address on Wednesday, April 12 went swimmingly. Of course, they had their hokey videos about how great things are. Commissioner Steve "the Hammer" or "The Commish" Nodine waxing on and on about parks and such, and Council President Reggie Copeland talking up what a great team the current council is. He thankfully did not call Mayor Sam Jones their quarterback, as he did during the first few days after the election and in every speech he gave during Jones’ inauguration.

I guess the biggest shock was when Commission President Juan Chastang announced in his address that the county was going to build a high-rise condo across from the Museum of Mobile, where the old courthouse was and where I thought the new Mardi Gras Park was going. It must have taken everyone by surprise, including at least one other commissioner. After the ceremony someone asked Nodine, "so you guys are building a condo downtown?" The Hammer replied, 'I guess we are now.'"

[elb401]

does anybody have any real information about that conference they had last week. I've read the stuff in Lagniappe and the mobile press. I was just wondering if anyone went to it. oh and I like the red iron on those buildings.

[elb401]

Well, there is some great news about Arlington park. Its gonna be awesome, Mobile is gonna have a large bayfront park again! There is a great article about it in Mobile Bay Monthly. Oh the Van antwerp building was just sold by those two New Orleans guys. Dont know yet what the new investors plan to do with the building.

[sahara727]

elb401, what is this arlington park of which you speak? i must be behind the curve...

[nick1982]

How far will Arlington Park be from the under-construction Choctaw Point container terminal?

[pboo74]

Well, there is some great news about Arlington park. Its gonna be awesome, Mobile is gonna have a large bayfront park again! There is a great article about it in Mobile Bay Monthly. Oh the Van antwerp building was just sold by those two New Orleans guys. Dont know yet what the new investors plan to do with the building.
is arlington park going to be downtown?

[elb401]

Its going to be south of Brookley but it is a part of a broader plan that will connect with the Bring back broad street that will make it flow into downtown. So its close to downtown.

[pboo74]

thanks elb401.whats the deal on the condos proposed in the mardi gras park?

[Musicisright]

I agree that we need some additional attractions downtown -- something to draw the locals downtown more often as well as for tourists. In addition to some large scale major attractions, I'd like to see some signature attractions such as interactive fountains, eye-catching sculpture, murals, some type of market area for vendors, artisans, musicians, etc. and other things that will provide an incentive for more activity downtown.

There was an interesting poll in the paper today to see what potential attractions/features people would like to see downtown. It listed many, and said to write down the ones you'd most like to see. It said you can submit your opinion online, but I can't find it.

[BamaGrad04]

Downtown developers to seek financing
Effort led by business improvement district hopes to spur revitalization projects
Tuesday, May 02, 2006
By ANDREA JAMES
Business Reporter

Hoping to spur about $25 million worth of business and retail development in downtown Mobile, some property owners and developers plan to ask the governor's office for tax-free financing for a series of renovation projects.

The effort is being led by the downtown Mobile business improvement district, which has compiled about a dozen projects as part of an effort to take advantage of government subsidies intended to aid Hurricane Katrina disaster areas.

Officials said that one application representing multiple revitalization projects will increase chances of approval. Residential condominium plans and downtown parking garages are also included in the application, according to David Calametti, the district's newly hired business development manager.

Mobile has struggled to revitalize its downtown, which visionaries insist is just around the corner from being a bustling commercial and residential city center. Last year, the Mobile City Council approved a 75-block business improvement district, or BID, where commercial property owners pay a market value-based fee and the newly created Downtown Mobile District Management Corp. decides how to spend the money.

The district is compiling an application to seek Gulf Opportunity Zone bonds to pay for the downtown projects.

Often called "GO Zone" bonds, the program was authorized by Congress late last year as a way to boost economic recovery from Katrina in Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. Under the law, the state of Alabama can approve up to $2.1 billion in tax-exempt bonds over the next five years. The governor's office makes the final call on what entities can issue the bonds.

Tax-exempt bonds appeal to developers because they typically carry lower interest rates, which makes it cheaper to borrow money.

"Our big goal is more residential and more business. With the GO Zone in particular, the incentives are stronger for non-residential property than they are for the residential side," said Elizabeth Sanders, executive director of the management corporation. "There's a lot of excitement about doing office buildings in addition to the RSA (Battle House Tower). A number of businesses are wanting to move downtown right now."

A government-approved bonding authority would issue the bonds to an underwriter and broker, who will then sell them to the public, Calametti said. That means that each project will stand on its own merit, and the investor assumes responsibility for paying back bond holders, not the BID, he said.

John Peebles of Grubb & Ellis/Peebles & Cameron said he has a couple of projects in the bond application.

His projects -- a mix of office and condominium space -- aren't contingent on GO Zone approval, but the bonds would "enhance" the projects so that they are "more supportive of downtown revitalization," Peebles said.

"These are small, niche, architecturally interesting projects," he said. The condos include "classic Soho-type lofts."

Whether any of the BID's projects will be approved is a tossup. Their fate lies with the governor.

"I think the chances are pretty good," Calametti said. "Mobile was certainly in the Katrina impact zone. It was impacted very dramatically. Even though we didn't have the buildings knocked down in downtown Mobile, we had four blocks of flooding."

The governor's office has received about two dozen applications worth $331 million so far, said Jeff Emerson, Gov. Bob Riley's communications director.

It is too soon to tell if there will be more demand for bonds than there is money available, he said.

The office had sent a letter to each entity in the 11 counties that can issue the bonds, including municipalities, counties, industrial development boards and the Alabama state docks, Emerson said.

The letter spelled out criteria that would be used to evaluate the projects:

Whether they replace property damaged or destroyed by Hurricane Katrina.

Whether they substantially improve the quality of life.

Whether they provide economic development.

Any additional allocations would be first-come, first-serve, Emerson said.

The GO Zone program has drawn criticism from taxpayer watch groups that contend the federal government will be subsidizing projects that in some cases would have been done anyway.

Calametti said that "the opportunity for tax-exempt money has sped up or spurred interest that may not have been there otherwise."

"We think we have merit," Calametti said. "I think the governor recognizes both the need and the value that these projects can bring to all of Mobile and continue the momentum we have."

The business improvement district hopes to have the application complete by May 15, Calametti said.

At times criticized for its lack of oversight, the BID did not notify all the council members about the bond application, City Councilwoman Connie Hudson said last week.

"If it affects the downtown and the city of Mobile, then the governing body of this city should have some idea of what's happening," she said.

[elb401]

I hope it helps get the ball moving a little faster.

[elb401]

I thin the new park is going to be north of Brookley.

[austin356]

I dont think it has been mentioned on here before, but 308 St. Louis St. in downtown has been sold. And it will be converted to 21 loft condos....

This is at the corner of N. Jackson, and St. Louis; One block east of the end of MLK Drive. An area that is basically completely abandoned, even though it is only 3 blocks north of Dauphin St. It is great to see more renovations move to the other areas of downtown, out of the CBD and off Dauphin St., it really shows the strength of the D-town market for residental right now. It is my opinion that St. Louis st. is the most run down street in the city, and it is glad to see a little bit of life come to the area. Lets hope this renovation is a sucess!!

For people not familiar with the area here is a google earth overview.............pretty underwhelming...... but lots of potential though.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f380/austinw356/308st.jpg

It is obviously not the exact address because there is no building on that parking lot to renovate....Im not sure, but you can see the area, and what the developers are working with.

[elb401]

Is that close to de tonti (sp)?

[nick1982]

I think the site is one block south of the De Tonti district.

[elb401]

well, if they build the area up in the style of the district.......it would be awesome. A really beautiful area.

[Exodus]

great looking neighborhoods

[pboo74]

good news!in the mobile register they are planning to move foward on putting a high rise condo with high end retail like 'macy's'and sak's fifth avenue,also some hotel rooms as well, where the old courthouse stood.it plans to either incorporate the mardi gras theme park into it or put it at another location.this is great news hope other towers pop up around downtown!

[Musicisright]

:previous: That is really really great news, this means more and more retail will be popping up. That's the one thing that I think downtown really needs.

By the way, here's the link to the article:

http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/news/11475117546940.xml&coll=3&thispage=1

Thanks, pboo!

[Blazer85]

I wonder what they mean by "high-rise." Some people consider anything like over 10-12 stories as a highrise.

[pboo74]

no problem music...

[elb401]

In today's real estate section there was a refrence to the addtion to the admiral Semmes Hotel in the article about the riverview makeover. Downtown is really coming along!!

[pboo74]

did it have a picture elb401 ?

[pkp]

I would thin "high-rise" in the condo article would mean 20 plus floors. It would be so cool to have a high enad department store downtown. Tons of other chain and local retail would follow because you would have the fot traffic to support it.

[pboo74]

yeah i'm pretty sure it'll be 20 storeis or over because they're talking about putting hotel rooms incorperated into this project.

[BamaGrad04]

Has there been any construction/destruction at the Waterstreet Landing site yet? Last I saw there was a SOLD sign in front of CSX but haven't heard anything yet. They've been slow to add updates to their website too. Any news?

[elb401]

hey pboo, no pic...they talked about it in the last paragraph.

[pkp]

It looks like they are doing some internal demo work on the CSX facility.

[BamaGrad04]

It looks like they are doing some internal demo work on the CSX facility.

Just bulldoze the thing!:tup:

[Alxx611]

yea almost everytime I drive by there I'm still disappointed to that old orange CSX building still standing, but with the word "SOLD" but up. Nevertheless, the old courthouse is like completly gone. Its now a huge block full of rubbel.

[pboo74]

hey pboo, no pic...they talked about it in the last paragraph.thanks elb401.when you here of other developments downtown fill us in on them please.:tup:

[elb401]

they have to remove the Asbestos (sp) from the CSX building before they tear it down, like they did the old court house. Its an environmental thing.

[MobileAl1]

I truly hope that the county decides to move forward the the high-rise condos on the site rather than a Mari Gras Park.

[BamaGrad04]

There's got to be a way to tie them both together. Maybe call the tower Carnivale or something mardi-gra'ish like that. :jester:

[BamaGrad04]

:gaah:

Mobile mayor opposed to condo project
Friday, May 19, 2006
By GEORGE TALBOT
Business Reporter
Mayor Sam Jones said Thursday he was "adamantly opposed" to a Mobile County Commission plan to build a condominium tower on county-owned property in downtown Mobile.

County Commissioners Juan Chastang and Stephen Nodine have backed the idea of a high-rise tower on a site just northwest of Fort Conde that was home to the old Mobile County Courthouse. The building, constructed in 1958, is being demolished.

Jones, in a luncheon speech to members of the Mobile Press Club, said he preferred that the property be used for a public park. The site is located west of Royal Street between Church and Government streets.

"It's a strategic location that I've always thought of as a gateway to the city," Jones said. "I just don't see that building as fitting the long-term vision we've had in place there. So I'm not (just) opposed to it. I'm adamantly opposed to it."

Jones, a former county commissioner, voted in 2002 to replace the old courthouse with a Mardi Gras-themed park. He said he still favored that plan, which included construction of a clock tower, public sculptures and an elaborate water fountain. When commissioners agreed on building the Mardi Gras park, the private Hearin-Chandler Foundation already had committed $1.5 million to the project.

The park, Jones said, could draw tourists from Fort Conde and the waterfront cruise terminal toward downtown shops and restaurants.

"We have no green space on that side of town," he said. "We liked the idea of an open space there with a very specific water display. You know, Mobile is one of the few seaport cities that doesn't have a water display of some kind. So I think the park is the right idea, and not only because we put a lot of time and effort into studying it. Because it will help create that pedestrian traffic."

Jones' comments were echoed Thursday by Commissioner Mike Dean, who voted with Jones for the park in 2002. Dean said he's held back criticism of the condo tower because he didn't want to cause a rift within the commission.

"We have two new commissioners who weren't here when we approved (the park) before, and I think we should let them research it and come to their own conclusions," Dean said. "But I've got a voting record in support of it, and I haven't changed my opinion. Hopefully they'll come around."

Chastang, the commission president, said he was surprised to learn that Jones opposed the project and planned to move forward regardless.

"I believe a true vision of downtown Mobile has to begin with residential growth, so it's really a no-brainer with the commission that the best use of that land is for condos," Chastang said.

He said the park would cost the county "hundreds of thousands of dollars a year" to maintain and would generate no tax revenue. Chastang said his plan is to lease the land to a private developer who would build and maintain the condos. The project would also include a retail shopping center and a parking facility, he said.

"The reason we ruled out the park was that it simply was not a good use of taxpayers' money," he said. "The key to getting downtown revitalized is increasing that residential population. We've got a lot of interest from developers who are ready to work with us to make that happen."

Nodine said the park could be moved to another location, suggesting a site next to the Mardi Gras Museum on Government Street.

"It's not a done deal, but conceptually, there's no doubt in my mind that the best use is not a Mardi Gras park," he said.

Nodine said the county has formed an advisory committee to review the project. He said the county must determine if a bond issue the voters approved last November can be used for anything other than the rebuilding of the courthouse annex and a Mardi Gras park.

"This is just an idea and a vision and nothing has been set in stone," Nodine said.

[HSVTiger]

:gaah:

Mobile mayor opposed to condo project
Friday, May 19, 2006
By GEORGE TALBOT
Business Reporter
Mayor Sam Jones said Thursday he was "adamantly opposed" to a Mobile County Commission plan to build a condominium tower on county-owned property in downtown Mobile.

County Commissioners Juan Chastang and Stephen Nodine have backed the idea of a high-rise tower on a site just northwest of Fort Conde that was home to the old Mobile County Courthouse. The building, constructed in 1958, is being demolished.

Jones, in a luncheon speech to members of the Mobile Press Club, said he preferred that the property be used for a public park. The site is located west of Royal Street between Church and Government streets.

"It's a strategic location that I've always thought of as a gateway to the city," Jones said. "I just don't see that building as fitting the long-term vision we've had in place there. So I'm not (just) opposed to it. I'm adamantly opposed to it."

Jones, a former county commissioner, voted in 2002 to replace the old courthouse with a Mardi Gras-themed park. He said he still favored that plan, which included construction of a clock tower, public sculptures and an elaborate water fountain. When commissioners agreed on building the Mardi Gras park, the private Hearin-Chandler Foundation already had committed $1.5 million to the project.

The park, Jones said, could draw tourists from Fort Conde and the waterfront cruise terminal toward downtown shops and restaurants.

"We have no green space on that side of town," he said. "We liked the idea of an open space there with a very specific water display. You know, Mobile is one of the few seaport cities that doesn't have a water display of some kind. So I think the park is the right idea, and not only because we put a lot of time and effort into studying it. Because it will help create that pedestrian traffic."

Jones' comments were echoed Thursday by Commissioner Mike Dean, who voted with Jones for the park in 2002. Dean said he's held back criticism of the condo tower because he didn't want to cause a rift within the commission.

"We have two new commissioners who weren't here when we approved (the park) before, and I think we should let them research it and come to their own conclusions," Dean said. "But I've got a voting record in support of it, and I haven't changed my opinion. Hopefully they'll come around."

Chastang, the commission president, said he was surprised to learn that Jones opposed the project and planned to move forward regardless.

"I believe a true vision of downtown Mobile has to begin with residential growth, so it's really a no-brainer with the commission that the best use of that land is for condos," Chastang said.

He said the park would cost the county "hundreds of thousands of dollars a year" to maintain and would generate no tax revenue. Chastang said his plan is to lease the land to a private developer who would build and maintain the condos. The project would also include a retail shopping center and a parking facility, he said.

"The reason we ruled out the park was that it simply was not a good use of taxpayers' money," he said. "The key to getting downtown revitalized is increasing that residential population. We've got a lot of interest from developers who are ready to work with us to make that happen."

Nodine said the park could be moved to another location, suggesting a site next to the Mardi Gras Museum on Government Street.

"It's not a done deal, but conceptually, there's no doubt in my mind that the best use is not a Mardi Gras park," he said.

Nodine said the county has formed an advisory committee to review the project. He said the county must determine if a bond issue the voters approved last November can be used for anything other than the rebuilding of the courthouse annex and a Mardi Gras park.

"This is just an idea and a vision and nothing has been set in stone," Nodine said.

So let me get this straight, the mayor perfers a park for the casual tourist
that may wander by and vagrants who will live there vs. permanent residents
who pay a lot of taxes living in the proposed condo. Am I missing something?

[Scottybo]

So let me get this straight, the mayor perfers a park for the casual tourist
that may wander by and vagrants who will live there vs. permanent residents
who pay a lot of taxes living in the proposed condo. Am I missing something?
Bring back Dow. :( He would have put the Condo project through once he heard "High Rise".

[pkp]

Eh, I say build the park there. There is a huge parking lot right across Gov't to build a condo. Hell, there's hundreds of empty lots. I just think that that spot would mak a good park because that really is a tourist intersection - Ft. Conde, Exploreum, City Museum, etc...

[austin356]

There is no reason why both cannot be done on the same property. Put the condo/retail tower on the North West corner of the property and allow the park to take the other half of the block bound by gov./royal/church.

The two groups need to remember that this is a very large block and can support a mixed use.
The property is actually 2 blocks joined into one via street closure. We could restore the original grid in the process, give the developer 1/2 a block, and give the public a whole block.

That would be a BIG PARK (I am guess roughly 100,000 sq ft).... much bigger than it looks on the arial (for comparison, the park would be larger than Cathedral park, yet smaller than Bienville Sq.).
Red is condo/retail green is park/public use.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f380/austinw356/mchc.jpg

[pkp]

^ True - I had forgotten than St. Emanuel St. ran across Gov't pre-Bankhead.

Also, I don't think of the park renderings (actually, I've only seen the one), include the red are as part of the park. But, correct me if I'm wrong, that building is taying right. I can see it from my office now, and its still there...

[pkp]

whoops - double post

[eastbayblu]

The part in red is staying...there is also a small historic law office in the area enclosed by red that is on the National Register of Historic Places....no way that would be torn down for a condo project...me personally, I love the idea of the high rise condo much more than the Mardi Gras Park...Dow would have been for it....also...I really like the idea of restoring the grid pattern...something that would really be cool would be to restore St Emanuel St from Bienville Square all the way to Ft Conde Village with a small bridge over the tunnel entrance....that would be awesome

[Fiorenza]

Very nice and evocative (referring back to the photos on page 1).

[Musicisright]

HSVTiger, you have a good point. Beinville Square is one of my favorite places in Mobile, but the only thing that bothers me is the amount of homeless/sketchy people that spend their time there.

I'm all for a Mardi Gras park with a cool water feature, but not when there's an even bigger fish on the line. Yeah, tourists would be drawn to a Mardi Gras park. But wouldn't they also be drawn to a Saks Fifth Avenue or a Macy's?:D Plus, with upscale retail like those stores, you'd increase local foot traffic downtown, not just tourists.

So in the end, who has the final say on what gets built?

[austin356]

The part in red is staying...there is also a small historic law office in the area enclosed by red that is on the National Register of Historic Places....no way that would be torn down for a condo project...me personally, I love the idea of the high rise condo much more than the Mardi Gras Park...Dow would have been for it....also...I really like the idea of restoring the grid pattern...something that would really be cool would be to restore St Emanuel St from Bienville Square all the way to Ft Conde Village with a small bridge over the tunnel entrance....that would be awesome


oh ok, well I have always thought of the two as the same complex..... I know there is that small law office and those buildings closer to the church, but what about that other 50's era building that takes up most of that 1/2 block? That large building a non-historic 50's/60's era building isnt it, or is my visual memory mistaken?

The idea of a small bridge would be great icon for downtown...

[elb401]

I'm with austin and the others about making it a mix use property. Sam jones is crazy!!

[pboo74]

yeah i like the idea of condo's,and maybe they can still put a park there as well.

[Alxx611]

Even though I'm for the mixed use of the property, I still think its kind of dumb that just because everyone heard the word highrise, they think it should be built. I think that's a little too desperate for tall buildings and a little too skyscraper obsessed.

.....but high rise condos make me happy. :)

[elb401]

Yea it would seem that way.... but I just think people are more desperate to get more residence downtown, highrise or not. When more people live there, the better downtown will become. the "highrise" might not be that tall and thats not the point. I would be happy if they just built some kind of units downtown for more people to live. They seem to be going fast at okay prices.

[pboo74]

i think regardless they should go ahead and build the condo tower if need be build the park somewhere else.

[elb401]

well if the condos were placed in the park that would be a neat selling point, like the ones on water street have cooper riverside park.

[pboo74]

well if the condos were placed in the park that would be a neat selling point, like the ones on water street have cooper riverside park.
yeah my point exactly.

[pboo74]

there's an article in today's register about waterstreet landing condo project,it's still a go it also has jumped from 60 mill to 80 mill. demo should start in july. i dont know how to post the 2 pages on here.

[Musicisright]

Here ya go:
http://www.al.com/search/index.ssf?/base/business/1148203547219560.xml?mobileregister?breal&coll=3

[Scottybo]

Even though I'm for the mixed use of the property, I still think its kind of dumb that just because everyone heard the word highrise, they think it should be built. I think that's a little too desperate for tall buildings and a little too skyscraper obsessed.

.....but high rise condos make me happy. :)
Not the word highrise, but new highrise and it meaning a more upscale look to the skyline sounds like a winner.

[lolzxzxlolzxzx]

I was downtown today and I noticed a few things...

Now that the old courthouse is gone you can get a really nice view of the Government plaza from royal st right in front of the mobile museum. So i think building a high rise residential building on that site would suck because it would block the view of the govt plaza from the east. build the park and tear down one of the ugly vacant buildings and put the condos there.

[MobileAl1]

^^^Here! Here!

[elb401]

ooo never thought of that. Only if its an ugly non historic building built in the 50s or 60s.

[lolzxzxlolzxzx]

ooo never thought of that. Only if its an ugly non historic building built in the 50s or 60s.


i know i can think of a few empty ugly old buildings that i wouldnt mind seeing blown up

[sahara727]

^ god knows we're not suffering from a shortage of those in the northern part of downtown...

[nick1982]

The condo should be constructed as in-fill development on the massive surface lot directly across from the Mardi Gras park site. A second condo tower, though not nearly as tall, should be constructed on the massive lot directly across from the Radisson Admiral Semmes, on Government. Each development shall feature ground level retail, with an upscale supermarket being located in the first tower.

[pkp]

The condo should be constructed as in-fill development on the massive surface lot directly across from the Mardi Gras park site. A second condo tower, though not nearly as tall, should be constructed on the massive lot directly across from the Radisson Admiral Semmes, on Government. Each development shall feature ground level retail, with an upscale supermarket being located in the first tower.

I agree - build the park where it is and build residential in these vacant lots - don't tear anything down! Along with the two lots you mentioned, there are several very large lots on St. Francis Street - on across from the square and one across from the temple. Those would seem to be very attractive spots as well.

[Musicisright]

Too bad we don't have any say.

[pkp]

Too bad we don't have any say.


Go to where all the intelligent folks in the bay area go have their voices heard...


Sound Off!

j/k

:fruit:

[elb401]

haha funny. there are other places to build a tower....but the county doesn't own those places.

[Musicisright]

Go to where all the intelligent folks in the bay area go have their voices heard...


Sound Off!

j/k

:fruit:

Don't get me started...Don't EVEN get me started.

[Musicisright]

I didn't know where to post this, but the downtown skyline is about to grow even more. The docks is getting two new container cranes - one at 232 feet high, the other at 205 feet tall - to replace the 196 foot crane that collapsed after being rammed by a ship two months ago.

Here's the compete article from the Press Register:
http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/news/114846278279210.xml&coll=3

Also, Mobile is close to getting its second cruise ship, according to Mayor Jones.

Article here:
http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/news/114846275279210.xml&coll=3

[SouthSky]

Also, Mobile is close to getting its second cruise ship, according to Mayor Jones.

Article here:
http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/news/114846275279210.xml&coll=3

While I am excited about the crane replacement, this makes me giddy. I've always thought that cruising from Mobile would be a hit (as it is the northern-most "gulf-front" port of the Gulf of Mexico and it is closer to the interior of the US) and I feel this second ship coming soon. I've heard in the past about Royal Caribbean adding a ship and Carnival adding a ship, so I guess we will figure out who will be the one to boost the cruise terminal in the near future.

[Joey Hester]

I agree with lolzxzxlolzxzx concerning the proposed highrise condominium tower at the Mardis Gras Park site for several reasons.

1. The park preserves the viewshed of Government Plaza
2. The park will create more needed greenspace downtown (and in that area)
3. The park will not "possibly" cast a shadow over Fort Conde
4. The park is wonderfully situated on parade routes
5. The park will be at the foot of the proposed pedestrian bridge from Mobile Landing
6. It has already been green-lighted

I love skyscrapers as much as anyone, so I was very excited to hear that the county commission was in support of new (and highrise) residential development downtown, but this is just not the right location!!!

I agree with Nick that the block across Government Street and behind the Riverview is the location for this type of development but with a hotel component. I have schemed on the possibilities of this site for a long time myself, primarily for a hotel/condo and a retail component to tie everything along Royal (from the cruise terminal, Mobile Landing, future Maritime Museum, Water Street Landing, Fort Conde Village and the Imax/museums) over to LoDo via the old Kress Building and Gayfers building. From this perspective, a Macy's and/or Dillard's on this block would be great, especially if the old Kress and Gayfers become department stores again!!! I have envisioned using the old Kress building (or a combination of Conti and St. Emanuel) as an "arcade" (basically a downtown mall) with a skylight and shops and restaurants that open to the arcade and the streets just like in Europe.

Also, the vacant parking lot on St. Francis at the northwest corner of Bienville Square would be a great location for a condo tower or possibly the old Gayfers site. They would provide residents with great park and city views!!

I guess that what I am trying to say is that I want to see many more great skyscrapers in Mobile, but in the right locations only!!! And architecturally pleasing. No bland prefab boxes!! All future buildings along the riverfront should not be over 5 to 10 stories so that they do not ruin the water views for all others present and future. I am excited about Water Street Landing, but it may take the "riverview" out of the Riverview or at least greatly obstruct it!!!! Also, if the convention center is ever expanded to the north, the viewsheds to the waterfront should be preserved from the foot of Dauphin, St. Francis and St. Louis.

[pkp]

From this perspective, a Macy's and/or Dillard's on this block would be great, especially if the old Kress and Gayfers become department stores again!!! I have envisioned using the old Kress building (or a combination of Conti and St. Emanuel) as an "arcade" (basically a downtown mall) with a skylight and shops and restaurants that open to the arcade and the streets just like in Europe.



I agree. My wife wants to open an upscale boutique and is probably 1- 2 years from doing that. I think it would be great to have a a "mall" environment - similar to the Riverwalk in New Orleans. In a city our size, we are unlikley to atract major retail without a large scale development. Major "chain" retail will be followed by local retailers because of the foot traffic, etc... If we can get an Urban Outfitters, J Crew, etc... - places where the nearest store might be, say in NOLA, you would attract a whole other level of shopper that usually would not come downtown.

The spots we have been looking at are on Royal next the barber shop and either across from the Thai place oin Dauphin or up by Spot of Tea because of the obvious attraction by the client she would be looking for. If we did it anywhere outside of dowtown - maybe Ashland Place area. However, I'd like to to a good dowtown and then a second location there. The main idea is because any major retail dowtown will either be at the place you mentioned or along the river. BTW, Robert Moore attempted to build his nationally famousn Christmas Town in the Kress Building, which would have attracted tens of thousands of visitors each year, but the inbreds who control much of the city choose to let it sit vacant.