[donybrx]

I'm deleting this post which origially appeared in the Scranton/wilkes-Barre thread back in Feb. 2007and has no relevance within the Philly cluture/food/ etc. threads

[Ex-Ithacan]

Discouraging news. Hopefully the Orioles or another team will step in. There's been other affiliates in the NE PA region before. My Dad became a Red Sox fan because their farm team played in Scranton while he was growing up. Who knows.

[Palms]

That sets things in proper motion. Red Barons to Allentown. Phillies to Scranton. Philadelphia is given an actual major league team.:rolleyes:

Phillies are a disaster. Turning your back on a region that you've dealt with for the past 20 years is just wrong, but I would expect nothing less from Dave Montgomery and the pathetic Phillies organization. I feel bad for the young kids of SWB who lose the only team they've ever known.

[phillyskyline]

If it's any consolation as Palms echoed, the Phillies are a disgrace & they aren't going to win anything in a very long long time. So Scranton you aren't missing much!

[Evergrey]

I do not want to see the Ottawa club move to SWB. Baseball in Canada has been declining... and many of its minor league clubs have disappeared. It would be sad to see Ottawa go.

However, I would like to see the Pittsburgh Pirates relocate their AAA franchise from Indianapolis to SWB. We already have the Baby Pens over there.

[frank_pentangeli]

Minor league teams move around all the time. You guys overrecat, WAY TOO MUCH.

[PhillyRising]

Scranton will get the Ottawa team...I don't know how they play baseball in Ottawa in April.

Teams change their minor league afflications all the time. This isn't the Phillies stabbing Scranton in the back....who is to say that Scranton still wants the Phillies there? I know during the 90's when the Phillies really sucked..that many in Scranton wished they had a different organization's prospects up there as the Phillies farm system was terrible from the late 80's to the late 90's.

It's a good move bringing the AAA team under a 2 hour drive from CBP (you know...that jewel of a park the "disgrace" of an organization had built and who is in the top 5 in payroll) because then if they need to make emergency callups...they aren't so far away. Scranton got the team from Oklahoma City in the 80's...so things change and a team will move their affliate there since the stadium is still fairly new (and wasn't it built with help from the Phillies?). The dimensions there were exactly the same as Veterans Stadiums.

[donybrx]

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[PhillyRising]

I want a National League team there, pleaaaaze....
and, Lackawanna County stadium IS a gem...in great shape, large for a minorleague venue 12,000 I think,,that's bigger then the new Long Island Ducks venue by far.... serving a couple million market....

That's why I don't think Scranton will really lose a team. The stadium is nice and the market has proven to be able to support a local minor league team.

Also, it seems to be a trend for the major league team to put their farm teams close at hand. The Phillies have kept them close and the Flyers have probably the closest setup any professional team could have. The Phantoms practice in the same facility as the Flyers and they play across the parking lot. That's why I think Balamer would move it's AAA team closer.

The Phillies AAA team in the last 4 decades has gone from Eugene, Oregon...to Oklahoma City...to Scranton...and now it seems to Allentown.

Also...look how it will spark a local rivalry (Allentown vs Scranton) thereby boosting attendance and local revenues.

[donybrx]

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[phillyskyline]

I think it's fair game to call the Phillies a "disgrace" of an organization. Let me see - 123 seasons, only 1 world championship. The Phillies are the LOSINGEST team in professional sports HISTORY! They have a total of 8,831 games lost in their history. They hold the MLB record for most consecutive losses - 23 consecutive games lost. They've missed the playoffs for 12 years consecutively, and 21 out of the last 22 seasons.

Kudos to having the 5th largest payroll - They only play in the 4th largest market in the country? Their avergae price for ticket in 2004 was $26 which made them the 3rd pricest ticket in MLB - directly contributing to that 5th largest payroll. Do they ever make the big moves at the trading deadline? I dunno, my Philly heart has pretty much soured on this pathetic sports team - not much reason for hope?

Fans of Philly have voiced their discontent with this loser organization this past season. They've lost almost 6,000 season ticket holders this past season, from 23,700 to 18,000 in a season were they had a winning record. Total Attendance dropped of by 600,000 compared to 2004 total of 3.25 million. All this despite a new field that was constructed incorrectly. <---- Only in Philly could that happen! I could go on and on.....

Scranton, really are you gonna miss this???

[wrightchr]

i think Harrisburg was in the bid for Ottawa as well...but the fan base of the Senators is pretty dedicated (especially since they switched their affiliation to the Nationals), so i don't think the city will be taking the chance on getting rid of them just to attract a International League team. S/WB may lose their affiliation with the Phillies, but they will pick up another MLB team.

let's face it, Baltimore has been looking at moving their Ottawa team for years now. i think they will ultimately end up in PA...the same with the Washington Nationals with their team in New Orleans...was in New Orleans RIP! it's just more marketable and economical to have your first line minor league team nearby. i agree with Evergrey...S/WB would be a great location to relocate Pittsburgh's AAA team. there are only three markets in PA that could really support AAA teams...and now two of them have/will have them.

[giovanni sasso]

frankie, if it was the reading phillies that were moving, i'd bet my salary that you'd be singing a different tune. there is loyalty in them there coal towns. they're only moving down the road to allentown, but it's still kinda sad for the wilkes-barre area. on the other hand, this could forge a better bond between the lehigh valley and philly area -- there doesn't seem to be much of one now, so if the phillies can be used as guinea pigs, they'll at least be put to good use for SOMEthing.

agree with palms: david montgomery, mike arbuckle and cohorts (including ed wade) are the reason the phillies are the phillies. and we the fans are the ones who suffer.


as an aside, i wish the phils could incorporate camden into their system. do we really need a single A team in suburban buffalo? can't we move them into campbell's field so that we have a phillies affiliate using that beautiful ballpark right across the river?

[mglan80]

Minor League teams are just franchises, to be bought and sold by anyone who wants them. The Major League team has no ownership or say to whom they are sold or where they are located.

The Wilmington Blue Rocks were affiliated with the Kansas City Royals since they began playing in 1993, but their owner, Minker, sold the franchise and brought a Red Sox franchise into town last year. He stated that he wanted a team that was geographically closer to give some connection, but it's just minor league ball so who really cares? The attendance is still the highest in A ball, but the uniforms are a little different. Wilkes-Barre is getting another team anyway.

[frank_pentangeli]

frankie, if it was the reading phillies that were moving, i'd bet my salary that you'd be singing a different tune. there is loyalty in them there coal towns. they're only moving down the road to allentown, but it's still kinda sad for the wilkes-barre area. on the other hand, this could forge a better bond between the lehigh valley and philly area -- there doesn't seem to be much of one now, so if the phillies can be used as guinea pigs, they'll at least be put to good use for SOMEthing.

The situations of both teams are certainly different, such that it would be unlikely that the Reading Phillies are unlikely to move from the cash cow that is their current situtation. Craig Stein would be stupid to move from one of hte most reliable AA bases in the country, making dollar upon dollar. Scranton most certainly had a different situation for its AAA status, and would have needed more support from the governments around them, which is something I don't necessarily support anyway. So, moving is probably better, and we will probably hear within the year about the Orioles or Mets or somebody probably moving a team into Scranton. As mglan just said, minor league franchises are cash cows first, player development pods second, and teams third. If the first two aren't happening, changes are made. If/When that times comes, the Reading Phillies will be moved or turned over, but the current situation doesn't deem it so.

phillyskyline - Look at Mr. Negative. ;)

[PhillyRising]

frankie, if it was the reading phillies that were moving, i'd bet my salary that you'd be singing a different tune. there is loyalty in them there coal towns. they're only moving down the road to allentown, but it's still kinda sad for the wilkes-barre area. on the other hand, this could forge a better bond between the lehigh valley and philly area -- there doesn't seem to be much of one now, so if the phillies can be used as guinea pigs, they'll at least be put to good use for SOMEthing.

agree with palms: david montgomery, mike arbuckle and cohorts (including ed wade) are the reason the phillies are the phillies. and we the fans are the ones who suffer.


as an aside, i wish the phils could incorporate camden into their system. do we really need a single A team in suburban buffalo? can't we move them into campbell's field so that we have a phillies affiliate using that beautiful ballpark right across the river?

The Phillies have an A club in Lakewood, New Jersey

[donybrx]

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[SSLL]

That's too bad. Bad for Ottawa too!

[gripja]

Scranton-Wilkes Barre can always do what they did up in Rochester back when they were about to lose their AAA franchise when St. Louis was gonna leave town. The people got together and bought the franchise and now with thousands of local shareholders there will always be a team in Rochester. They have a board of trustees that work with major league franchises and negotiate who they want to be the farm club for. Forever it was the Orioles that furnished the Red Wings with players but recently the Red Wings dropped Baltimore as their Parent Club and joined in with the Twins organization because Rochester was getting sick of losing with Baltimore. Rochester has been the Red Wings since the 1920's and have only had 3 parent clubs, something thats unheard of with most minor league teams. Local ownership is the way to go.

[SSLL]

Are the S/W-B Phillies for sale, though?

[wrightchr]

^ i don't believe they are. the city of Harrisburg bought the Senators, the AA team for the Nationals, back in 1996 when the owners threatend to move them to Springfield, MA. i didn't know Rochester bought the team with public stock? that's really cool. i think the Green Bay Packers are the only pro team to be partly owned by the community as well. i'm sure that whatever happens in S/WB, they will recover another team. it's just a matter of time. it's a solid baseball market and in close proximity to NE urban centers.

on another note: i thought for sure baseball had passed up York, PA...but i took a recent look at the cities website and they have apparently refocused their efforts into getting an Atlantic League team, just like Lancaster did last year. so there's a good change we could see minor league baseball coming to York in the next two years...with a new $33 million stadium downtown, tied to another $100 million in urban investment.

[donybrx]

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[SSLL]

Evergrey, you're right, Ottawa is the Blue Jays of AAA baseball, the only AAA team left, with Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton losing their franchises and now being in the non-affilated Northern League. I have a thread going in the Canada subforum http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=95223

[donybrx]

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[giovanni sasso]

i'd forgotten about this thread and story.

there's an article in today's NY times (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/23/nyregion/nyregionspecial2/23njCOVER.html) (spambobby/password should work for a login -- i got it from bugmenot) about the proliferation of minor league baseball.

and that's a great thing, i say, especially considering the pure shite the phillies are mustering. as i've said a million times, i have total faith in the core of the team -- utley, howard and rollins (and ok, abreu has regained my trust) -- but the rest of the team and suck an egg, each and every last one of them who earns a paycheck from the philadelphia phillies.

i went to a reading phillies game last weekend and it was great, despite reading getting shelled by altoona, another place i like to watch a game. camden's ballpark is amazing and deserving of a major league affiliated team.

state college's ballpark is surprisingly going to be ready for its first season, beginning in june. the layers of minor league ball confuse me though. the state college spikes are some kind of farm team to the altoona curve, who are the pittsburgh pirates' AA team, yet they're an A team affiliated with the st louis cardinals.

minor league franchises may be easily shifted and sold, but it's the affiliations and alliances of the fans that are the hardest to break. like with the reading phillies, you have a history that includes mike schmidt, larry bowa, greg luzinski, ryne sandberg, darren daulton, jimmy rollins and ryan howard. they all went on to be great stars with the phillies except for sandberg, who every phillies fan knows was a pawn in dallas green's game to ensure his own legacy.

that's what's sad about the red barons leaving moosic. the people who've long rooted for them have watched their stars go on to be phillies, so it would make sense that they'd root for the phillies too. now they've got to shift to the orioles (or whomever, and ottawa losing a team is another sad result of the move).

phillies management, the cause of frustrating conversations like this for 35 years and counting.


oh well. go spikes!

http://www.curvestore.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/Camo400.jpg

[donybrx]

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[themaguffin]

:hmmm:

[themaguffin]

:previous:

[donybrx]

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[Evergrey]

just thought yous might be interested in some pictures of the new State College Spikes / Penn State Baseball stadium... Medlar Park at Lubrano Field (capacity 6000)

these pictures are from Wikipedia... what a breathtaking view!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Medlar_Lubrano_1.JPG/800px-Medlar_Lubrano_1.JPG

my god, i miss the mountains of PA
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Medlar_Field_at_Lubrano_Park_2.JPG/800px-Medlar_Field_at_Lubrano_Park_2.JPG

grandstand
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/ML_Press_Box_Penn_State.JPG/800px-ML_Press_Box_Penn_State.JPG

view from Mt. Nittany *sigh*
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/BJC_from_Mt_Nittany.JPG/800px-BJC_from_Mt_Nittany.JPG

[FlyersFan118]

Those are incredible shots, Evergrey. Wow...just wow.

[MetroJunkie BJR]

:previous:

Don't know what those pics of the State College stadium have to do with the Phillies leaving Scranton...:shrug:

But I'll say they are pretty sweet. Very cool looking stadium, and if I may tie it into the thread...Lackawanna County should have built its stadium more in the 6,000-7,000 seat range instead of the 11,000 capacity. I think it would have been more fitting the area's population. Lots of empty seats out there anymore.

The latest I heard is that the Mets might move their AAA franchise from Norfolk to NE PA, but that's still just a rumor.

[donybrx]

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[MetroJunkie BJR]

It definitely wont be the Yankees. Steinbrenner wont leave Columbus.

If we got the Yankees, that would mean instant success and a full stadium each season. With that not gonna happen, I'm hoping for the Mets. They have a strong following here and would fit the market better than the Orioles or any other team.

[donybrx]

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[PhillyRising]

It makes sense for MLB teams to keep their top farm club close to home. Having the Phillies AAA club in the Wyoming Valley made sense...but...Allentown is even closer. I guess people up there are bitter towards the Phillies?

It would be logical for a Noo Yawk team to put their farm club less than two hours from their home stadiums.

[MetroJunkie BJR]

I'm a little bitter about the Phils leaving. They always treated the Red Barons like a stepchild. Then again, their organization as a whole is nothing to crow about, so what's past is past. Looking toward the future...

If the Yankees really know what they are doing, they will move their AAA to Scranton. It would be an unbelieveable success for the teams and the region. Yes, I would prefer the Mets and I haven't been a big Yankees fan (there are just so many of them around here and they are always in your face...ugh), but what I just wrote is the best argument for moving the team. There are SO MANY here...and with the exploding population of the Poconos, all from NY area transplants, there is no way Columbus could be considered a better choice. Two hours away...enormous fan base...completely new clubhouse...it would be awesome.

That said, whenever one evokes the name Steinbrenner, as savvy a businessman that he is, if he is set on keeping the team in Columbus for personal reasons, then there it will stay. And MetroJ being the mild pessimist that he is, I am not falling for the "Yanks are mulling a move" until I see a signed agreement and Blue and White pinstripes being painted on the stadium marquee.

I do think it's time to ditch the Red Barons moniker. Few people care about the history behind the combining of the two city teams (Red Sox and WB Coal Barons), and the majority think the name refers to either Snoopy flying on his doghouse, WWII, or a flippin' frozen pizza. Time to "Yank" the name and try something new.

[donybrx]

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[donybrx]

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[cb3cb3]

Scranton is getting the ottawa minor league team, the AAA team of I think the Balti more Oriels, and Allentown is getting the Red Barons. That means two AAA teams in close proximity of each other- why not just one major league team or proffesional sports franchise?

[donybrx]

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[donybrx]

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[gripja]

Thats cool that S/WB will remain with a team. I'm not a fan of minor league teams straight up adopting their parent franchises name tho, but @ least there will still be AAA ball being played there. The most hated team in the International League, what used to be the Columbus Clippers, is now officially the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Yankees!!!! ;)

[wrightchr]

i think it's cool that the yankees picked up S/WB as their AAA affiliate. it just goes to show you the amount of pull NYC is having in NEPA!

[donybrx]

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[Evergrey]

Red Barons No More.....




Boo! :hell:

[donybrx]

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[donybrx]

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[Evergrey]

i did not know PNC had a significant presence in NEPA

[donybrx]

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[MetroJunkie BJR]

i did not know PNC had a significant presence in NEPA

PNC has one of the leading market shares in NEPA, for at least a couple of decades since they took over Scranton-based Northeastern Bank.

I have really gelled to the Scr/W-B Yankees name and logo. I work near the stadium, ahem, PNC Field, and there is a real feeling of excitement around there. It's cool to sense that after all these years.

[donybrx]

Someone shifted info hereunder that I posted in Feb. 2007 in a Wilkes Barre/ Scranton thread that's very old news and has to do with Scranton /Wilkes-Barre. I've deleted it by editing since I don't feel that its has appropriacy here....or less so, timeliness. I hope this sort of thing won't happen again at least with any of my input.