PDA

You are viewing a trimmed-down version of the SkyscraperPage.com discussion forum.  For the full version follow the link below.

View Full Version : PHILADELPHIA | The Murano | 475 FT / 145 M | 42 FLOORS



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 [17]

skellergroup
Nov 21, 2008, 3:51 AM
What percentage of the units are currently occupied, and what percentage of the units have been sold? When I saw it the other night, it looked incredibly dark except for the space shuttle landing strip blinking red lights. Also, any word on the retail space downstairs, or is the economy just killing it for now?


I agree. This building looks terrible at night. I hope there is more life to this building at night. So far...awful.

drgoogle
Nov 24, 2008, 3:15 AM
The festivities are all inside. Sorry, invite only! :)
http://phillyskyline.com/bldgs/murano/murano_uc487.jpg

I agree. This building looks terrible at night. I hope there is more life to this building at night. So far...awful.

bucks native
Nov 24, 2008, 9:28 AM
from here dated 24 NOV: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillyinc/From_AppTecs_growth_to_PIDCs_land_sales.html


Thomas Properties Group Inc. provided an update on sales at the Murano, the nearly completed 42-story high-rise at 21st and Market Streets.

Of its 302 units, the Los Angeles-based developer said it had closed sales on 101 units and 94 parking spaces. An additional 24 units and 28 parking spaces are under contract.

CondoGuru
Nov 24, 2008, 4:01 PM
from here dated 24 NOV: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillyinc/From_AppTecs_growth_to_PIDCs_land_sales.html


Thomas Properties Group Inc. provided an update on sales at the Murano, the nearly completed 42-story high-rise at 21st and Market Streets.

Of its 302 units, the Los Angeles-based developer said it had closed sales on 101 units and 94 parking spaces. An additional 24 units and 28 parking spaces are under contract.

That doesn't sound accurate. When I closed on my condo, my building had to be 50% sold before anyone could close on their loans. No bank would allow that, especially in today's climate. It could be recordings that have yet to catch up. Sounds like out of date information to me.

Don098
Dec 2, 2008, 3:20 AM
http://phillyskyline.com/lovecopter/lovecopter_55.jpg

Credit to Brad over at PhillySkyline. God, what a picture! Simply stunning.

Source: http://phillyskyline.com/

CondoGuru
Dec 2, 2008, 3:25 PM
Wow! That is an amazing shot. That garage definitely needs a green roof on it asap!!!

hammersklavier
Dec 2, 2008, 3:38 PM
Great shot! Def points out that the garage roof needs to be green, and a semi-public plaza (attached to Trader Joe's, perhaps?) might not be a bad idea on it.

It also points out that there are waaaaaaay too many parking lots around the site; it even shows a lot south of Market I didn't even know about before. We really need to institute policies to get these lots built up.

Plokoon11
Dec 2, 2008, 10:07 PM
Wow reminds me of a screen shot from sim city 4. Looking great!

buildup
Dec 3, 2008, 12:14 AM
Is the top of the garage in the photo above a roof or the top level with no cars on it?

CondoGuru
Dec 3, 2008, 5:41 PM
No, it's a roof.

Johnland
Dec 4, 2008, 12:30 AM
Great shot! Def points out that the garage roof needs to be green, and a semi-public plaza (attached to Trader Joe's, perhaps?) might not be a bad idea on it.

It also points out that there are waaaaaaay too many parking lots around the site; it even shows a lot south of Market I didn't even know about before. We really need to institute policies to get these lots built up.

Yes, the photo does point out just how much surface parking there in that vicinity. Lots of potential for new development.

And my God yes, that garage roof is totally wasted with that old style, un-green design. I thought that went out with the last bull market. We are in new times, can't waste a thing. Including, all that garage roof surface area just sitting there, needlessly absorbing heat in the summer, glaring in the day, and wasting some development need that could utilitize the air rights over the parking. All the city needs is a stronger economy, a few more ten's of thousands people moving in, more jobs. Let's see, if the oppresive taxes were lowered.....

hammersklavier
Dec 4, 2008, 5:42 PM
So, an office block on top the garage and the Trader Joe's lot? Personally, I would like a public plaza on top of that garage. The Murano's real handsome and Commerce Square was built by Pei. Some pretty good architecture right there.

There also ought to be a nice big 'round-back sign for Trader Joe's.

Didja know Commerce St. runs right through that garage? Check it out sometime.

bucks native
Feb 27, 2009, 3:54 PM
I suppose there are now lights on in the building at night, but I wonder how many. Does it LOOK occupied? Fully lighted from the interior, this building would be spectacular.

rricci
Feb 28, 2009, 1:05 PM
The Murano is about half-lit at night - about what you would expect from a residence tower (given curtains, outings, etc.) I'm not sure of how many units are left to sell. Does anyone have current figures? I for one think it's a beautiful building.

hammersklavier
Mar 2, 2009, 1:20 PM
Is there any reason this is still in P&C? The Murano was finished, like, some time ago...

Thymant
Mar 4, 2009, 2:57 AM
So is this complete?

TANGELD_SLC
Mar 4, 2009, 8:09 AM
:previous: Time to move this thread, yup yup :yes:

Murano's a beaut, by the way, although yeah a parkspace would look nice on the parking rooftop.

Gekko
Mar 8, 2009, 6:16 PM
"In 2008, we recognized gains from sales of units at Murano of about $16.7 million and majority of the cash from these sales was used to pay down the construction loan and during the fourth quarter of 2008, we took an impairment charge on the Murano of $12.2 million which reduces our basis in the remaining unit to $101 million.
As of December 31, 2008, we have sold 111 units; we had 14 units under contract to close and we had 177 units remaining for sale. Our construction loan balance was $63.9 million or approximately 335,000 per unit yet to be closed. We also recorded an impairment charge of $1.2 million on joint venture investments during the fourth quarter of ’08."


Thomas Properties Group Inc. (TPGI)

Q4 2008 Earnings Call
February 26, 2009; 01:00 pm ET


Jim Thomas - President & Chief Executive Officer
Diana Laing - Chief Financial Officer

drgoogle
Mar 14, 2009, 5:45 PM
Could just have easily bolded sold 111 units; we had 14 units under contract . I live here and I absolutely love it. The walk to work aint bad either :)
Heres a shot from the back side.

http://www.carinaromano.com/folio/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/murano1.jpg

And now the kitchen:
http://www.carinaromano.com/folio/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/murano2.jpg

BUILDER5000
Mar 16, 2009, 5:47 PM
Nothing too fancy here, just wanted to show the amount of lights seen at about 7:30pm

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/jayr05/SKY/008.jpg

rricci
Mar 22, 2009, 12:22 PM
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/inga_saffron/20090320_Changing_Skyline__Brick_city_accepts_glass.html

hammersklavier
Mar 22, 2009, 6:31 PM
While the Murano's primary structure is dazzling--no one can doubt that--the design of the parking podium was a Big Mistake--the kind of mistake it can only take superiorly-designed neighbors some work to rectify in some way.

I also think that the roof on the parking garage is going to be turned into a green roof sometime in the near future; whether that roof is to be public or private is anyone's guess.

And of course, that parking lot between Trader Joe's and JFK will likely sooner or later be turned into a building that actually does front JFK, which, west of the Commie Block, is woefully underbuilt in this regard; neither Commerce Square nor the Murano nor PECO perform in this regard. And of course, once the lots in this area are developed over, we can start seeing feasible plans that take advantage of the air rights over the SEPTA tracks, which would represent the ultimate filling-out of the western part of Center City that was initiated with the construction of Penn Center and re-sparked with the construction of Liberty Place. (But then where will the path of development go? Hmmm...)

drgoogle
May 18, 2009, 3:56 AM
The Murano has proven to be an excellent rental property. 1BRs generate $2500/mo which pays for carrying costs. Put an ad up and bam, 10 people respond. Smooth and easy. Kudos to all.

Teakwood
Jun 3, 2009, 1:43 PM
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20090603_Fire-sale_prices_for_luxury_Center_City_condos.html


Fire-sale prices for luxury Center City condos

By Alan J. Heavens

Inquirer Real Estate Writer

Price break on luxury condos in striking glass tower in Center City. Best offers over $250,000 considered.

That's the strategy for moving 40 of the 178 units still unsold at the Murano at 21st and Market Streets, to be sold at auction for sums 50 percent below their original list price later this month.

Take the 1,405-square-foot, 23d-floor unit originally listed at $995,000. It could go for $485,000, less than what it would cost to build today, said Jon Gollinger, president of Accelerated Marketing Partners, of Boston, which is handling the sale for Murano's developer, Thomas Properties Group Inc.

"These are preposterous numbers," Gollinger said of the prices, which are based on his analysis of the Philadelphia high-rise condo market. "But there is disequilibrium in the market, and the only way to get it moving is to try to provide an extreme-value opportunity - a once-in-a-lifetime event."

The sale, set for 1 p.m. June 27 at the Westin Philadelphia, 99 S. 17th St., is not an auction with absolutes, said Gollinger, who markets high-rise condo buildings nationally.

"If the reserve published minimum bid is $250,000 and no one bids above it, the condo sells for $250,000," he said.

Business has lagged at the 302-unit Murano, which was completed last year. So far, only 124 units have sold, and 112 have gone to closing, according to the city's Board of Revision of Taxes.

Yet Gollinger said that the auction would not be a "clearance sale" and that he hoped by selling the first 40 units, the remaining ones would go quickly.

"I'm just allowing the market, not the developer, to set value, based on what we know to be the critical mass," he said.

By analyzing the entire market, Gollinger said, he found that $249,000 is the price buyers should find most compelling.

What happens to those who have already paid full freight for their condos?

Gollinger planned to address that last night at a closed meeting of Murano's property owners.

"Of course, we wanted them to know what was going on before we began publicizing it, but we are counting on the fact that people who bought into the Murano were looking for a particular lifestyle," Gollinger said.

"The nature of the economy means that the building otherwise wouldn't be full for two years, and by doing this, the homeowners would be able to take control of things sooner," he said.

Kevin Gillen, vice president of Econsult and a Wharton School of Business fellow who studies the Philadelphia housing market, said the Murano's developer may be taking drastic action to avoid even greater pain.

"Murano may be playing the recourse game," Gillen said. If a condo developer reduces its debt to the lender to a certain level, but then sales fall below target - usually 80 percent of total units - the developer has no other recourse than to do whatever it can to pay the debt off or lose the remaining units to foreclosure.

Prudential Fox & Roach broker Joanne Davidow, who sells high-end condos in the Rittenhouse Square area south of the Murano, said the sale of these units at "bargain-basement prices is probably a very sad decision of last resort for the developers and banks, who put so much into their project."

It reflects a prolonged recession hurting consumer confidence, "which is the key to a strong or weak home-sales market," she said.

Some Center City condo buildings have been hit quite hard, such as the Aria at 1419 Locust St. In January, a bankruptcy judge appointed U.S. Equities, a Chicago developer, receiver of 55 of the 62 unsold residential units there after the developer, Universal Residential, stopped paying its lender, iStar.

Those unsold units have not yet gone back on the market. In all, 114 residential units and three commercial units sold in the renovated building.

Prudential Fox & Roach agent Mark Wade, who focuses on condos throughout Center City, said a quick corrective proposal such as the one being tried at Murano could be an "easy and effective resolution to what otherwise would be a long-term, lingering problem."

"What is interesting . . . is the fact that many of the largest, most expensive units in many Center City buildings remain unsold," Wade said. "There is a common thread among the unsold units in newer buildings: The one-bedrooms almost all sold, and sold well, while disproportionately, the larger, more expensive units have sat on the market."

As with Aria, whose condos many real estate agents considered overpriced at $333,000 to $3 million, "the sooner the Murano units get on the market and become owner-occupied, the better the result will be for the condo association," Wade said.

With first-quarter sales just one-third that of the same period in 2008 for new condos, according to Delta Associates, which tracks the market segment, it's possible that Murano's gamble - if it succeeds - may have a limited effect on other projects.

"The market dictates prices, and I don't see these being gobbled up like they think it will," said Center City mortgage and real estate broker Fred Glick. "No matter the price, financing is extremely difficult for a building that is not 50 percent presold, so . . . investors with cash will be the only ones that will probably buy these."

Glick said that Murano's distance from Rittenhouse Square has been a stumbling block to sales, and that the retail offerings that surround it, including adult theaters and vacant buildings such as the former Keystone AAA headquarters at 20th and Market, have not helped either.

Condo developer/broker Allan Domb said a onetime bulk sale at the Murano actually will be less painful than trying to sell 40 units over three years at lower prices.

"Maybe," Domb speculated, "the developer is looking at this as a method to stay alive for two years and revisit, hoping that there is a market then at 21st and Market Streets."

drgoogle
Jun 7, 2009, 5:03 AM
The auction is unfortunate for those like myself who purchased. I feel especially bad for those who purchased expensive 2 bedrooms - these folks will take the greatest immediate hit. I bought back in 2005 when prices were lower (I bought in the 300s) Based upon the published minimum bids, I stand to lose a fair amount of money, although I'm not as concerned as others.

A couple of points when thinking about fair value.

1) The developer is desperate. They are trying to move lots of product an stay afloat, whereas as an individual unit owner does not have this problem. They will have a firesale or an auction, unit owners typically would not.

2) The developer has put 40 units up for a reason. They need exactly 38 more units to close to stop paying the lion share of the condo fees.

3) Rental income. I'm cash flow positive. An investor ought to consider that 1BRs command over $2,200 a month in rent. Their should be a relationship between rental income and purchase price.

4) Bidding. Lets wait and see what eventual price is set by buyers.This is one of the first times in center city that buyers will have the opportunity to drive pricing...And it may be higher or lower than folks think. Hopefully there will be media coverage at the event to report the outcome.

My closing thought is that you should always have a long-term view and be careful not stretch your budget when making a purchase. Some folks may have lost their shirt and that's unfortunate. Good luck to those, however, who can take advantage of this opportunity. I promise not to hold a grudge :)


http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20090603_Fire-sale_prices_for_luxury_Center_City_condos.html


Fire-sale prices for luxury Center City condos

By Alan J. Heavens

Inquirer Real Estate Writer

Price break on luxury condos in striking glass tower in Center City. Best offers over $250,000 considered.

That's the strategy for moving 40 of the 178 units still unsold at the Murano at 21st and Market Streets, to be sold at auction for sums 50 percent below their original list price later this month.

Take the 1,405-square-foot, 23d-floor unit originally listed at $995,000. It could go for $485,000, less than what it would cost to build today, said Jon Gollinger, president of Accelerated Marketing Partners, of Boston, which is handling the sale for Murano's developer, Thomas Properties Group Inc.

"These are preposterous numbers," Gollinger said of the prices, which are based on his analysis of the Philadelphia high-rise condo market. "But there is disequilibrium in the market, and the only way to get it moving is to try to provide an extreme-value opportunity - a once-in-a-lifetime event."

The sale, set for 1 p.m. June 27 at the Westin Philadelphia, 99 S. 17th St., is not an auction with absolutes, said Gollinger, who markets high-rise condo buildings nationally.

"If the reserve published minimum bid is $250,000 and no one bids above it, the condo sells for $250,000," he said.

Business has lagged at the 302-unit Murano, which was completed last year. So far, only 124 units have sold, and 112 have gone to closing, according to the city's Board of Revision of Taxes.

Yet Gollinger said that the auction would not be a "clearance sale" and that he hoped by selling the first 40 units, the remaining ones would go quickly.

"I'm just allowing the market, not the developer, to set value, based on what we know to be the critical mass," he said.

By analyzing the entire market, Gollinger said, he found that $249,000 is the price buyers should find most compelling.

What happens to those who have already paid full freight for their condos?

Gollinger planned to address that last night at a closed meeting of Murano's property owners.

"Of course, we wanted them to know what was going on before we began publicizing it, but we are counting on the fact that people who bought into the Murano were looking for a particular lifestyle," Gollinger said.

"The nature of the economy means that the building otherwise wouldn't be full for two years, and by doing this, the homeowners would be able to take control of things sooner," he said.

Kevin Gillen, vice president of Econsult and a Wharton School of Business fellow who studies the Philadelphia housing market, said the Murano's developer may be taking drastic action to avoid even greater pain.

"Murano may be playing the recourse game," Gillen said. If a condo developer reduces its debt to the lender to a certain level, but then sales fall below target - usually 80 percent of total units - the developer has no other recourse than to do whatever it can to pay the debt off or lose the remaining units to foreclosure.

Prudential Fox & Roach broker Joanne Davidow, who sells high-end condos in the Rittenhouse Square area south of the Murano, said the sale of these units at "bargain-basement prices is probably a very sad decision of last resort for the developers and banks, who put so much into their project."

It reflects a prolonged recession hurting consumer confidence, "which is the key to a strong or weak home-sales market," she said.

Some Center City condo buildings have been hit quite hard, such as the Aria at 1419 Locust St. In January, a bankruptcy judge appointed U.S. Equities, a Chicago developer, receiver of 55 of the 62 unsold residential units there after the developer, Universal Residential, stopped paying its lender, iStar.

Those unsold units have not yet gone back on the market. In all, 114 residential units and three commercial units sold in the renovated building.

Prudential Fox & Roach agent Mark Wade, who focuses on condos throughout Center City, said a quick corrective proposal such as the one being tried at Murano could be an "easy and effective resolution to what otherwise would be a long-term, lingering problem."

"What is interesting . . . is the fact that many of the largest, most expensive units in many Center City buildings remain unsold," Wade said. "There is a common thread among the unsold units in newer buildings: The one-bedrooms almost all sold, and sold well, while disproportionately, the larger, more expensive units have sat on the market."

As with Aria, whose condos many real estate agents considered overpriced at $333,000 to $3 million, "the sooner the Murano units get on the market and become owner-occupied, the better the result will be for the condo association," Wade said.

With first-quarter sales just one-third that of the same period in 2008 for new condos, according to Delta Associates, which tracks the market segment, it's possible that Murano's gamble - if it succeeds - may have a limited effect on other projects.

"The market dictates prices, and I don't see these being gobbled up like they think it will," said Center City mortgage and real estate broker Fred Glick. "No matter the price, financing is extremely difficult for a building that is not 50 percent presold, so . . . investors with cash will be the only ones that will probably buy these."

Glick said that Murano's distance from Rittenhouse Square has been a stumbling block to sales, and that the retail offerings that surround it, including adult theaters and vacant buildings such as the former Keystone AAA headquarters at 20th and Market, have not helped either.

Condo developer/broker Allan Domb said a onetime bulk sale at the Murano actually will be less painful than trying to sell 40 units over three years at lower prices.

"Maybe," Domb speculated, "the developer is looking at this as a method to stay alive for two years and revisit, hoping that there is a market then at 21st and Market Streets."

Gekko
Jun 27, 2009, 1:07 PM
http://www.metro.us/us/article/2009/06/26/02/0755-85/index.xml

Gekko
Jun 27, 2009, 1:15 PM
The auction is unfortunate for those like myself who purchased. I feel especially bad for those who purchased expensive 2 bedrooms - these folks will take the greatest immediate hit. I bought back in 2005 when prices were lower (I bought in the 300s) Based upon the published minimum bids, I stand to lose a fair amount of money, although I'm not as concerned as others.

A couple of points when thinking about fair value.

1) The developer is desperate. They are trying to move lots of product an stay afloat, whereas as an individual unit owner does not have this problem. They will have a firesale or an auction, unit owners typically would not.

2) The developer has put 40 units up for a reason. They need exactly 38 more units to close to stop paying the lion share of the condo fees.

3) Rental income. I'm cash flow positive. An investor ought to consider that 1BRs command over $2,200 a month in rent. Their should be a relationship between rental income and purchase price.

4) Bidding. Lets wait and see what eventual price is set by buyers.This is one of the first times in center city that buyers will have the opportunity to drive pricing...And it may be higher or lower than folks think. Hopefully there will be media coverage at the event to report the outcome.

My closing thought is that you should always have a long-term view and be careful not stretch your budget when making a purchase. Some folks may have lost their shirt and that's unfortunate. Good luck to those, however, who can take advantage of this opportunity. I promise not to hold a grudge :)

1. yes it sure is unfortunate for the sheep that bought the hype. losing a couple of hundred grand is painful. don't forget about the free parking spot they're giving away.

2. HOA fees and assessments and and taxes will only go up.

3. no way is any original buyer renting these cash flow positive after all expenses - including HOA fees. they are feeding a cash hungry alligator every month. and how do you compete with someone buying at $250K with a free space who wants to rent it or maybe rather just buy?

4. bidding and final sales will be interesting. not sure even at $250K these things can be cash flow positive after all expenses.

5. my advice has always been to do the math and run the numbers and if it doesn't make sense, don't buy.

6. told you so.

7. good luck - you'll need it.

drgoogle
Jun 30, 2009, 9:42 PM
not really. Thanks to healthy bidding, reserve prices did not come even close to fruition (whew!). Just cause you start the bidding at 0 doesnt mean the unit sells at 0. I think the high monthly rental income puts a nice floor in prices. Residents also get new neighbors. All in all, not nearly as bad as I originally feared. Go Philly!


7. good luck - you'll need it.

The A Train
Jul 13, 2009, 1:42 PM
So I guess they're not going to be putting any kind of nighttime lighting scheme on this thing? It looks like it's just going to be another dark building, like the commerce twins and DiBona. Center City looks pathetic at night - the low-power lights on Lib 1 and 2 don't help matters any, but the complete darkness of the other buildings really kills it.

Gekko
Sep 12, 2009, 1:25 AM
Murano Lender Seized

Regulators seize construction lender Corus Bank
Regulators close major Chicago-based commercial real estate lender; 91 bank failures this year

* By Ieva M. Augstums, AP Business Writer
* On Friday September 11, 2009, 8:47 pm EDT

CHARLOTTE, North Carolina (AP) -- Federal regulators on Friday said they seized Corus Bancshares Inc., a major Chicago-based lender to condominium, office and hotel projects, adding it to the long list of banks that have succumbed this year to the recession and waves of loan defaults.

The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. took over Corus Bank, which had $7 billion in total assets, and its deposits. The deposits will be assumed by MB Financial Inc., which is also based in Chicago.

Corus Bank's 11 branches will open on their next normally scheduled business day as branches of MB Financial Bank. Regular deposit accounts are insured up to $250,000.

The closure of Corus Bank, one of the largest banks to fail this year, will cost the FDIC $1.7 billion.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Regulators-seize-construction-apf-218858753.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=