Tempe Development Thread [Archive] - Page 11

Azndragon837

Jul 24, 2007, 3:41 AM

I am a College of Design graduate - School of Planning (c/o 2007 baby!), and I remember when I was in Architecture the first few years before my switch to Planning - all the nice little stores I used to enjoy at the funky little Arches, like Dave's, Pita Pit, Mai' Island, Restaurant Mexico. Now that most of those restaurants have moved into new locales in Tempe, and I am now at Scottsdale, I really am just focusing on Tempe's development using this forum as a place to soak in news. I don't frequent Tempe much anymore after I left ASU and my internship with the City.

My stand - I support Dave and his little hot dog stand, and I wasn't a big fan of University Square anyways, because I was skeptical with the condos and the hoopla over the development. But, now that I see it, this whole situation had been dragging on forever. We really need to move on....that dirt lot is annoying. I don't know who to support anymore. I have been watching on the sidelines for sometime, and I will support whatever comes into Tempe's Downtown. Whatever comes in, it will transform a downtown into a beaming beacon of the Valley.

-Andrew

SunDevil

Jul 24, 2007, 10:59 AM

Woah, I though my comment was fairly reasonable. I was contrasting the disappointment I would feel to see a locally owned and operated business being driven out, with my personal feeling toward that particular establishment. I was devastated to see the College Street Deli close up since it was one of my favorite lunch spots and often I would run into one of my favorite professors there. Dave's is not like that for me since I think the food does not live up to the cost, basically it doesn't taste good enough for me to pay almost double of what I can pay for a similar product. College Deli, though a little more pricey than subway, tasted better and I was willing to pay the $.50-1.00 more for it.

HooverDam

Jul 24, 2007, 11:49 AM

Don I always love your posts, but that last one with multiple Star Trek references was a winner :D Please bring up Star Trek in all of your posts, I loved it.

sundevilgrad

Jul 24, 2007, 2:12 PM

When did you graduate? 1980? You are out of touch with what is going on at the University today so I wouldn't get into it if I were you sir. Things have changed alot since you were going to school then. All of my friends eat at pita pit and I don't think i've had one that is a regular patron to Dave's except the bum that was drinking coke at the table next to me when I was there.

LOL, that's pretty funny. I graduated in 2004, live in 85281 and frequent downtown Tempe and ASU. My response to some of your rants:

Dave's is expensive... When I went down there last week you could get a dog, fries and a coke for $6, just about the same price you would pay for a "value" meal anywhere.

Dave's isn't good... I can understand this, if you don't like hotdogs. Judging by your affinity for Pita Pit that probably isn't that far off. Here's a little advice: If you like Mediteranian cusine go to the Phoenicia Cafe next to Mosque or Pita Jungle on Apache or Haji Babas on Apache, each one is a million times better than McDonalds in Pita. BTW, if you've never tried Dave's, I guarantee it's one of the best dogs you'll ever have. (Oh yeah, if you think Dave's is expensive just wait until Uni Square get's developed. Guess who pays for it? Not the developers. You.)

Look, I want to see Uni Square as much as the next skyscraper junkie, but what's right is what's right. Pay Dave and move along.

azsunsurfer

Jul 24, 2007, 10:43 PM

LOL, that's pretty funny. I graduated in 2004, live in 85281 and frequent downtown Tempe and ASU. My response to some of your rants:

Dave's is expensive... When I went down there last week you could get a dog, fries and a coke for $6, just about the same price you would pay for a "value" meal anywhere.

Dave's isn't good... I can understand this, if you don't like hotdogs. Judging by your affinity for Pita Pit that probably isn't that far off. Here's a little advice: If you like Mediteranian cusine go to the Phoenicia Cafe next to Mosque or Pita Jungle on Apache or Haji Babas on Apache, each one is a million times better than McDonalds in Pita. BTW, if you've never tried Dave's, I guarantee it's one of the best dogs you'll ever have. (Oh yeah, if you think Dave's is expensive just wait until Uni Square get's developed. Guess who pays for it? Not the developers. You.)

Look, I want to see Uni Square as much as the next skyscraper junkie, but what's right is what's right. Pay Dave and move along.

I didn't mean to insult you and yes I have eaten at Haji Babas, it's ok, I've had better hot dogs and I honestly can't wait till I have some higher end retail near campus instead of going all the way to Scottsdale, Tempe is in desperate need of some higher end retail.

SethAZ

Jul 25, 2007, 4:22 AM

The land just south of the new arts center off Rio Salado and north of 1st st has been cleared. There used to be an old, single level house (shack) right there. I didn't have my camera with me or I would have got some pics. The sign said it was for Art Park.

There still seems to be no activity where the Armory (or Stadium Towers, or whatever it is called) is supposed to be. I remember reading that construction was supposed to start in May. There were still cars parked over there tonight.

desertdj

Jul 27, 2007, 4:41 PM

I would love to see this in Tempe. Way to go Tempe, always the leader in the Valley...

Streetcar could see rebirth in Tempe, stir downtown business
Kerry Fehr-Snyder
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 26, 2007 05:02 PM

It's a throwback to yesteryear, but transportation experts and a prominent Tempe businessman think the time may be right to reintroduce electric streetcars to Valley streets.

Tempe is taking a lead in considering a modern streetcar line like that in Portland, Ore., to move commuters more efficiently than city buses do today and revitalize downtown businesses.

Valley Metro Rail has hired transportation consultant HDR Inc. to study mass transit options, including adding streetcar lines that would feed into its 20-mile light-rail system being built through parts of Phoenix, Tempe and Mesa. Metro is scheduled to open in December 2008.

The two-year, $3.4 million study known as an "alternatives analysis" will focus on ways to serve Tempe's north-south transportation corridor.

The study area spans generally from Tempe Town Lake south to Chandler Boulevard and from Kyrene to Price roads.

Marc Soronson,HDR's project manager for the study, said streetcars are being considered along with traditional bus service and extending the primarily east-west light-rail line.

The various modes are being considered to attract federal matching funds for the system.

Electric streetcars were introduced to Phoenix in 1893. Two years later, they replaced all the horse-drawn cars in the area.

But by 1940, Phoenix had decided to replace all its streetcars with buses.

Modern streetcars have become a popular idea in at least 20 cities, Soronson said.

Best known among them is the Portland streetcar system, which began operating in July 2001 and is credited for revitalizing an abandoned warehouse area known as the Pearl District.

Streetcars are different from San Francisco's cable cars, which pull cars up steep hills by grabbing underground cables. Instead, streetcars use overhead electric wires and run on tracks that aren't buried as deeply as those needed for light-rail lines.

Streetcar lines can share the road with automobiles so they require less dedicated roadway than light-rail lines. They also can be laid shallower than light-rail lines. Crews bury streetcar lines only a few feet below a roadway's surface, which means fewer underground utility lines are displaced.

Stan Nicpon, owner of three Pizzeria Uno, with locations in Tempe, Mesa and Phoenix, has been pushing the streetcar idea for about 18 months.

Nicpon was in Portland this week to get a firsthand look at its operation.

"I have been tenacious on this project. I think from a very, very selfish perspective," he said.

Nicpon said he believes a similar system could solve downtown Tempe's parking problems, traffic congestion and give residents in south Tempe a reason to come into the downtown area.

HDR's Soronson said although his study will take into account all modes of mass transit, including bus rapid transit and light-rail extensions, streetcars are becoming a viable option.

"There definitely is a resurgence" in streetcars, he said. "We've seen a tremendous amount of interest in them because the economic development patterns around streetcars are just incredible."

PhxSprawler

Jul 27, 2007, 6:47 PM

I believe any form of public transportation is great, especially when it has the potential to increase mobility, prevent drunk driving, and reduce traffic congestion.

I hope the proposals can obtain state/federal funding without upsetting the neighbors without lightrail or any form of public transit (Chandler, Gilbert, Buckeye, Glendale, Scottsdale, etc. )

combusean

Jul 27, 2007, 7:13 PM

^ The likely choice for that seems like Rural Rd, in fact, there's a map somewhere that throws them right there with a slight dogleg out on the UP Kyrene railroad branch.

Isn't full on light rail better for Scottsdale Rd/Rural Rd... from Chandler Fashion Center to the Airpark?

PhxSprawler

Jul 27, 2007, 7:15 PM

Isn't full on light rail better for Scottsdale Rd/Rural Rd... from Chandler Fashion Center to the Airpark?

That would make too much sense. Isn't Scottsdale opposed to light rail going through their city?

HooverDam

Jul 27, 2007, 7:49 PM

That would make too much sense. Isn't Scottsdale opposed to light rail going through their city?

Just through Old Town I believe, so it would have to dog leg over onto Goldwater or Drinkwater. Its stupid they don't want light rail clashing with the Old Western look of Old Town, because apparently people hitching their Bentleys to a post is super authentic.

vertex

Jul 27, 2007, 10:46 PM

Its stupid they don't want light rail clashing with the Old Western look of Old Town, because apparently people hitching their Bentleys to a post is super authentic.

LOL!

Azndragon837

Jul 28, 2007, 2:35 AM

Just through Old Town I believe, so it would have to dog leg over onto Goldwater or Drinkwater. Its stupid they don't want light rail clashing with the Old Western look of Old Town, because apparently people hitching their Bentleys to a post is super authentic.

Haha, funny. I think Light Rail will be awesome if it goes on Drinkwater or Goldwater. I would prefer Drinkwater, since it passes by the City Hall complex, the library, the museums, and eventually connecting to the Waterfront and Fashion Square when the road connects back with Scottsdale just south of Camelback. The Galleria office complex is on Drinkwater, and so are several office buildings near Indian School. Very ideal route.

If Drinkwater becomes the route, I can take the train from 19th Avenue & Camelback (2 miles east of where I live), do a park-and-ride, and take the train to my work at Drinkwater & Indian School Road (City Hall). Whohoo!

-Andrew

desertdj

Jul 28, 2007, 11:30 PM

Federal funding should be available for public transit for any city. If Gilbert or Scottsdale doesn't feel they need a streetcar system then they shouldn't be upset. I think the city of Tempe is the only one dense enough to support this right now. Downtown Phoenix could use it but they already have light rail down the middle of the city and there isn't much development really outside of walking distance of the light rail.

I believe any form of public transportation is great, especially when it has the potential to increase mobility, prevent drunk driving, and reduce traffic congestion.

I hope the proposals can obtain state/federal funding without upsetting the neighbors without lightrail or any form of public transit (Chandler, Gilbert, Buckeye, Glendale, Scottsdale, etc. )

phxazguy

Jul 31, 2007, 2:06 AM

HooverDam

Jul 31, 2007, 2:53 AM

Do people even go to old town Scottsdale? Every time I've been there I've only seen a bunch of old western art stores and cheap shops with no people around. If the place isn't that historical than they should redevelop it.

Huh? Old Town Scottsdale and Mill Ave are probably the two most walkable places in the Valley, always full of people walking and milling about. I was doing stand up at the Open Mic on Sunday and there were lots of people in clubs, street side cafes, shopping, etc in Old Town.

oliveurban

Jul 31, 2007, 4:14 AM

Do people even go to old town Scottsdale? Every time I've been there I've only seen a bunch of old western art stores and cheap shops with no people around. If the place isn't that historical than they should redevelop it.

Not to beat a dead (and off-topic) horse, but, downtown Scottsdale (which includes Old Town), is one of the most vibrant areas in the Phoenix area - especially after dark. The area is practically ground zero for the area's 'big' nightlife scene (regardless if it's offerings happen to be your cup 'o tea, or not).

NorthScottsdale

Jul 31, 2007, 6:24 AM

Do people even go to old town Scottsdale? Every time I've been there I've only seen a bunch of old western art stores and cheap shops with no people around. If the place isn't that historical than they should redevelop it.

sorry to keep beating this, but it seems you were blind when you went there. these "cheap" stores definatly arent cheap they are just in the historic old original buildings which i actually like. and there are always people. whether you like scottsdale or not, other places could definetly take some lessons from scottsdale. and the nightlife cannot be beat anywhere else in the valley. except tempe is a pretty close match

Downtown_resident

Jul 31, 2007, 3:33 PM

Actually, the faux-western Old Town is not historic. Scottsdale largely razed its historic townsite, I believe in the 1970's, to build the old west-inspired structures that comprise the current downtown. Old Town now is an interesting mix of upscale galleries, interesting restaurants and bars and-- as phxazguy mentioned-- several cheesy "scorpion bola tie" tourist trap stores. There is definitely a lot going on there, although personally I'll pass on the "scene" in Scottsdale in favor of hanging out at The Roosevelt or Lost Leaf any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

PhxSprawler

Jul 31, 2007, 5:53 PM

Do people even go to old town Scottsdale? Every time I've been there I've only seen a bunch of old western art stores and cheap shops with no people around. If the place isn't that historical than they should redevelop it.

It is still one of the two places I always take friends from out of state to see when in town for their first time. The other is Tempe.

I agree though, it does seem pretty dead during the day. Thursday nights for the weekly Art Walk and the clubs on Friday and Saturday are bumpin!

JAHOPL

Jul 31, 2007, 8:52 PM

Driving past Tempe on the 202 this morning, the second Centerpoint Condo tower is finally starting to rise into the skyline.

PhxSprawler

Jul 31, 2007, 9:29 PM

Driving past Tempe on the 202 this morning, the second Centerpoint Condo tower is finally starting to rise into the skyline.

Woo hoo! I haven't been around there recently to see the progress, but will make a point to go early next week and take some pictures.

hi123

Jul 31, 2007, 10:07 PM

When will ONYX start construction?

andrewkfromaz

Aug 1, 2007, 4:57 AM

Streetcars, eh? I'll believe that when I see it. What may work in Portland usually doesn't fly in Phoenix. Too bad.

Don B.

Aug 1, 2007, 6:12 PM

Fantastic video on the Pier at Town Lake's website:

http://www.thepierattownlake.com/index.php

:)

--don

PhxSprawler

Aug 1, 2007, 8:33 PM

When will ONYX start construction?

Sales are starting this month. With financing in its current distress, I wouldn't expect anything to begin until they have cash reservations for a good portion of the units. My semi-educated guess would place construction starting around the end of 2008, but don't hold me to it.

They have updated their web site, finally!

http://www.weststonecommunities.com/future.html

Don B.

Aug 2, 2007, 12:25 AM

Revised Tempe skyscraper list as of today, 8-1-07:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/don85259/Tempe%20Photos/TempeProjectsList.jpg

--don

sundevilgrad

Aug 2, 2007, 2:26 PM

Nice work Don!

loftlovr

Aug 2, 2007, 5:41 PM

Thanks Don! :cheers:

PhxSprawler

Aug 2, 2007, 6:18 PM

Revised Tempe skyscraper list as of today, 8-1-07:

--don

...very exciting stuff, Don! Thank you!

Maybe someday someone will complete a diagram of Tempe and its buildings for this site. ;)

SethAZ

Aug 4, 2007, 8:48 PM

I walked by this today. The property has a fence up around it and today there was a sign with a website. (the sign website was 312south.com but it opened to the website below) It's on the west side of Hardy between 5th and 2nd street.

http://www.worleyteam.com/featured/details.cgi?id=316

PhxSprawler

Aug 6, 2007, 5:12 PM

Tempe has updated its interactive map showing the proposed development. Check it out! http://www.tempe.gov/business/maps/

combusean

Aug 6, 2007, 5:55 PM

Here's the skim of some of the new stuff off the above link:

Renderings for Namwest at Town Lake: 4 towers:
http://www.tempe.gov/maps/DevProjectDetails.aspx?LocationID=63d5cb03-92fa-4895-a125-b7dc3668a30d

More information on Eighth and Rural Condominiums, a 12-story project not on Don's list:
http://www.tempe.gov/maps/DevProjectDetails.aspx?LocationID=b42e9a43-e10a-4242-96cb-53af8c2c8ec9

Gray Clow's six story Apache/101 park and ride with renderings:
http://www.tempe.gov/maps/DevProjectDetails.aspx?LocationID=a558dc6a-c4a5-4dfe-bf42-be78fe579900

LandSource Tempe's 17 story project on Apache, with rendering:
http://www.tempe.gov/maps/DevProjectDetails.aspx?LocationID=1829bd85-7188-442c-ab5f-aee92def825e

Campus Suites on the Rail: nothing special but 964 student units on 7.5 acres is big:
http://www.tempe.gov/maps/DevProjectDetails.aspx?LocationID=76810a99-618e-4d6a-a585-c2be74f83a00

sundevilgrad

Aug 6, 2007, 6:22 PM

Apache has some great potential

JimInCal

Aug 6, 2007, 7:20 PM

Thanks all for the sites and renderings. Tempe continues to impress. Here is a great animation for The Pier at Town Lake project.

http://media1.tempe.gov/econdev/high/ThePier.wmv

vertex

Aug 7, 2007, 5:23 AM

Here's an interesting, if slightly dated (last year), video showing many of the projects in Tempe.

sEpl5Z7ACvk

JAHOPL

Aug 7, 2007, 2:13 PM

"August 7, 2007
Onyx Tower taking orders soon in Tempe
Tony Natale, Tribune

Developers will begin taking orders next week for the tallest building yet on Tempe Town Lake, the 26-story Onyx Tower.

WestStone Communities and its sales and architectural teams will begin selling the 196 condominium units on Aug. 17. The tower includes 20 penthouses on the top five floors.

Prices start at $300,000 on the low-end and run up to nearly $2 million, said John Iorillo, WestStone president and chief operating officer.

Onyx Tower will be built on less than two acres on the north shore of the lake at Playa Del Norte and Rural Road near Loop 202. Ground-breaking is set for December and construction is expected to be completed in the summer of 2009.

The development is among a movement in the real estate industry of high-rise residential growth. "It's the old story," Iorillo said. "As more people move in and space starts to get smaller, buildings start going higher. It's happening in the Valley and in other parts of Arizona.

"A lot of people don't want to live in the outskirts of Arizona. They want to live, work and play in the heart of a city like Tempe."

Tempe Mayor Hugh Hallman said the Onyx Tower is an example of the city's push to attract more residents as well as provide economic support for lakeshore and downtown businesses. "The goal is to get the lake to start paying off for the economic benefit of our community," said Hallman, who joined other council members in endorsing final plans for the project.

The city plans to attract more than 5,000 additional residents to the downtown area by encouraging more residential and condo development. "It (the Onyx Tower and other residential projects) is part of a bigger program to establish a more sustainable community," Hallman said.

Tempe Councilman Ben Arredondo, while endorsing the plan to lure more residents and voting for Onyx, questions the height of some projects underway. "I've always had a problem with building heights in Tempe," said Arredondo. "There's also the question of police and fire safety issues with tall buildings."

Arredondo said he plans to request a study into the additional costs needed to maintain safety in tall structures. The new Onyx Tower will have black glass walls with units that run in size from 653 square feet to 2,368 square feet. It will feature a rooftop lap pool, bar for private parties and a 10-seat movie theater and conference room."

Isn't it time for Ben to start thinking about retiring?

PHX31

Aug 7, 2007, 2:48 PM

Yeah, what a just silly statement about police and fire issues in tall buildings.

vertex

Aug 7, 2007, 3:03 PM

What's wrong with this line of thinking? Do you think the Tempe F.D. is currently equipped to fight fires in 300+ foot, 30-story buildings?

Don B.

Aug 7, 2007, 3:24 PM

^ Then he shouldn't publicly open his mouth about it. Nothing like destroying the high-rise market, nascent though it may be, by running off at the mouth. Instead, fix the problem and move on.

Now, if the city refuses to fix the problem (assuming one exists - and let's be real - what cities in Arizona are equipped to "fight" high-rise fires? For that matter, what cities in the U.S. are?), then that's a different story. But I suspect Arredondo hasn't done anything to fix the problem - he just has issues with high-rises in general and the fire excuse is just a way for him to get his name in the paper, to grind his axe.

Lame.

--don

PHX31

Aug 7, 2007, 3:37 PM

Is this going to be the first high-rise ever built in the history of mankind? NO. And I think it is safe to assume every high-rise has fire protection built in... ie, hydrants or fire hookups on each level (or many levels) of the building. I doubt they need any more equipment (more than a hose). Maybe they need some high-rise fire fighting training, but again, there are already high rises in Tempe, i'm sure they've had some training, so why is this jackass brining up this tripe for this tower? I'm sure it has to do with what don is saying.

vertex

Aug 7, 2007, 4:19 PM

Arredondo has brought the issue up several times before, but it appears his argument has fallen on deaf ears. So what if he decides to go to the papers to make his case?

Does that make him a jackass? Neither of you are are qualified to talk about firefighting anyway, so what's up with the assumptions?

If you guys have an axe to grind about Arrendono, then just say so, rather than continue to hide behind flimsy arguments and excuses.

And until recently, I don't recall Tempe having any high-rises, unless someone is desperate enough to think Manzanita Hall is worthy of the category...

JAHOPL

Aug 7, 2007, 4:19 PM

I suspect Ben Arredondo is frustrated with the future upward growth of Tempe and would prefer it to remain as it was in the past, a college-town with low rises at best, but that doesn't seem to be the future of Tempe. It's important to be concerned with police and fire protection of tall buildings, as I'm sure those who are constructing these buildings are as well. Ben's a little younger than I thought though after looking up his bio, 58, so he has a few years left.

vertex

Aug 7, 2007, 4:40 PM

I just don't get it. If Arredondo was quoted as saying "I hate high-rises", and then proceeded to vote against every proposal out there, then fine.

I get the feeling that he is very skeptical about the rush of proposals. Other than the 1st two Centerpoint buildings, along with Hayden Ferry Lakeside, nothing is a lock. All we have to show right now are torn-down Tempe mainstays and rampant speculation.

PhxSprawler

Aug 7, 2007, 5:12 PM

If you guys have an axe to grind about Arrendono, then just say so, rather than continue to hide behind flimsy arguments and excuses.

No offense, but I don't understand this comment. I think everyone made it irrefutably clear that they are opposed to Arrendono publicly fighting high-rises.

I respect the fact that he wants to obtain costs estimates on fighting fires in high-rises, and would hope the cost is passed on to the residents of downtown instead of being subsidized by the rest of the city. I do not respect him for using it as a platform for preventing change.

I believe Arrendono should just come out and say he has "an axe to grind" about high-rise buildings and stop "hiding" behind his "flimsy arguments and excuses."

In the grand scheme of things, everything great about cities was opposed by someone. I'm sure someone in Giza thought the pyramids blocked views and angered the fire gods.

sundevilgrad

Aug 7, 2007, 5:26 PM

I'm sure someone in Giza thought the pyramids blocked views and angered the fire gods.

LOL, NIMBY's in Ancient Egypt! Now that's funny.

vertex

Aug 7, 2007, 5:30 PM

I believe Arrendono should just come out and say he has "an axe to grind" about high-rise buildings and stop "hiding" behind his "flimsy arguments and excuses."

And the Arrendondo beat-down continues...

In the grand scheme of things, everything great about cities was opposed by someone.

Funny, but it seems that everything great about Tempe (Long Wong's, the Co-op, etc) is being torn up by people who want to want to 'capitalize' on what's great about Tempe. The result? Really great tattered fences around really great empty lots...

PHX31

Aug 7, 2007, 7:13 PM

/\ Until this page of this thread i didn't even know who the hell Arrendondo was. I don't have an axe to grind with him, I just think his comments and questions were ridiculous and "flimsy".

What's with you defending him? Are you his nephew or something?

loftlovr

Aug 7, 2007, 8:21 PM

answer the question vertex- are you little Johnny Arrendondo? :haha:
That is funny!
vertex- I don't think anyone here has an axe to grind with Arrendondo- just that there always seems to be such opposition to skyscrapers in Phoenix/ Tempe, and this is a skyscraper forum.... we are used to Phil Gordon- who only makes positive comments regarding development. Arredondo seems to dislike building height!
You made a valid point about the fenced off lots. It pisses all of us off....

I do not see how these developers plan to sell all of these proposals.

In addition to the HFL buildings and Centerpoint's future towers, we also have Mosaic, Onyx, Stadium Towers, and now the proposed Pier at Town Lake development, SunCor's other site.... and the Club Rio proposal- not to mention all of the mid-rise stuff! The Pier and SunCor lot each have about 5 towers a piece on them. Granted they can be spread out over a 10 yrs span but c'on!

Wouldn't Tempe need a far stronger work force/ school system to justify all of these high rises?

If 30% of the current list were proposed I would agree that we could make them all happen....
But developers ruin shit by overbuilding/ over-proposing. That is what happened in Gaslamp too....
Like Cielo- if it ain't gonna happen let the buyers jump to Century Plaza so it can be sold out....
-just my rant-

vertex

Aug 8, 2007, 2:48 AM

Phx31 said:
What's with you defending him? Are you his nephew or something?

Jeez I hope not. Have you seen what the guy looks like? :)

Honestly, he strikes me as the only one on the council right now who doesn't rubber-stamp everything put in front of him. He is not anti-development, but he is skeptical. It pisses me off when people portray him negatively.

If the development someone is offering is really going to strengthen the surrounding neighborhood, then they shouldn't be afraid of trying to win him over.

Loftlover said:
In addition to the HFL buildings and Centerpoint's future towers, we also have Mosaic, Onyx, Stadium Towers, and now the proposed Pier at Town Lake development, SunCor's other site.... and the Club Rio proposal- not to mention all of the mid-rise stuff! The Pier and SunCor lot each have about 5 towers a piece on them. Granted they can be spread out over a 10 yrs span but c'on!

I'll breath easier once each of these buildings are topped off. I am skeptical of projects like Mosaic; the developers received such a windfall from the combination of the uber-cheap price paid for the land, along with the way the council rolled over to approve the variance, I wouldn't be surprised if they sold the project and walked away tomorrow. Besides, 3 different ground-breaking dates doesn't instill confidence.

Many approved projects, such as Centerpoint 3 & 4, are years away, and may never get built (at least in their current form). Anything else on Don's list that is 'proposed', I'm not counting on, including the NamWest Town Lake and the 7th/Mill projects.

desertdj

Aug 8, 2007, 5:23 PM

Yeah those Arrendondo's are everywhere, there was one that was a coach at my high school (Tempe High) and another student there as well, all were related to him too. Well I don't mind an opposing view sometimes, its a very good thing to have balance on governments too, but building up is inevitable and if we don’t have the capability for public services to handle these buildings now or try to avoid the issue now by not approving more high rises, the fact as we all know is Tempe has to grow “up” so its going to happen sooner or later.

Also call me selfish on this issue but I really hope they over build those condos and manage to get a bunch up, then they will have to lower the prices on them and I’ll be able to afford to buy one :-)

PhxSprawler

Aug 8, 2007, 8:18 PM

I happen to believe Tempe has ensured their fire fighters have appropriate training for high-rises. I also believe that infusing 2000 residents into any community would cause additional costs for fire, police, and other services. Sure, high-rises may require additional elements, however, condo owners will be paying additional taxes by having higher value per square foot.

I have no beef with Arrendondo. He has a problem with building heights. I disagree with his priorities, that's all. His focus should be with ensuring the city is equipped to deal with building heights, not trying to lower heights.

I would like to have kept some of Tempe's landmarks also, such as Long Wongs, and I hope my favorite restaurant (Phoenecia Cafe) is never impacted. This is an issue where the developers need to build relationships with the owners and keep the locations at the base of their towers. We can get the best of both worlds!

combusean

Aug 8, 2007, 8:30 PM

... I am skeptical of projects like Mosaic; the developers received such a windfall from the combination of the uber-cheap price paid for the land, along with the way the council rolled over to approve the variance, I wouldn't be surprised if they sold the project and walked away tomorrow. Besides, 3 different ground-breaking dates doesn't instill confidence.

Mosaic was under design review for at least a year as NIMBY's in Maple Ash eliminated more and more of its amenities and pushed its massing further and further back. It would have likely broken ground a long time ago otherwise.

I don't feel sorry for Gentle Strength either--they had a history of mismanagement and completely frittered away everything they got for the land into the new store (leased space mind you)--putting them right back in crippling debt and eventual bankruptcy.

Arredondo has said it flat out--he has an issue with building heights completely aside from whatever (bogus) risk they cause to police and fire protection. Tempe made it very clear that their height limit is 300 feet and he's the only one continuing to push the sour grapes for projects that are even under that.

vertex

Aug 8, 2007, 10:25 PM

Mosaic was under design review for at least a year as NIMBY's in Maple Ash eliminated more and more of its amenities and pushed its massing further and further back. It would have likely broken ground a long time ago otherwise.

The city approved the plans last fall, but only after forcing the developers to make big improvements on the design. I am glad they setback the tower, and I have the Maple/Ash Nimby's to thank for that, in spite of your opinion.

Even so, the developers have been selling Mosaic for a year now. They cleared the lot last December, then promised ground-breaking ceremonies in April, July, and now September. Meanwhile the fence falls apart, the wrap is shredded and torn, and the dusty trailer sits there with bubbling vinyl siding and bars on the doors.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/8441/img1819smallub2.jpg

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/4665/img1820smallmx4.jpg

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/1451/img1823smallxz9.jpg

And next door, we have the Farmer Arts district waiting in the wings, with the old Tempe Bicycle building about 2/3 demolished. It's been this way for 2 weeks now, with skaters in the day and street kids at night.

But it sure does make a great dystopian skate park...

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/3441/img1821smallra8.jpg

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/1253/img1822smallsy1.jpg

PHX31

Aug 8, 2007, 11:14 PM

I bought my bike from Tempe Bicycle a long time ago when I was at ASU.

But I'm glad they are going to make better use of that land (eventually).

Azndragon837

Aug 9, 2007, 8:13 AM

That NamWest development looks completely different than the initial design I saw when I was working with a local architecture firm last year as an intern. I really don't like the boxy architecture (NamWest probably went to another firm or something). The design I saw used a tapering tower with several towers curving and whatnot (like HFL).

-Andrew

solediavolo

Aug 9, 2007, 12:52 PM

I don't live in Tempe, but I am a fan enough that I'd like to interject a bit on this Arrendondo thing.

Let me state also that although I don't have the same level of interest in high rises as those here, I'm behind whatever helps improve the downtown areas in Phoenix and Tempe-so I think the recent developments, proposed and otherwise, are a very good thing for most everyone-high rises and all.

So on this I disagree with Ben's philosophy to keep Tempe as the city he remembers from his youth.

That said, his expressed concerns on fighfighting and training are real. Tempe has had some HR training, but nothing like what they'll need in future while these projects come to fruition. Even Phoenix Fire has only recently started taking HR training to the level it needs to be to match our downtown. It's actually fairly expensive and a very time consuming endeavor, so it's not hard to imagine it would be much the same for Tempe crews(the cheapest way to train is to do it on duty, meaning trucks and crews are out of service, meaning units are spread thinner while others are covering needed areas).

It also should be noted that while most fire units are four man crews, first arriving HR units need to be staffed with five. It's the only way to address all the tactical needs for 1st due companies. Obviously, the cost associated with this becomes an issue. Keep in mind, also that Tempe's plans to build out along Tempe Town Lake, and possibly spread some high rises along Apache, means not only an increased number of exposed 1st due units to HR issues, and with it, increased staffing, it calls for possibly a very expensive redeployment and repositioning of units to match the density. Worse yet, it more than likely would involve building additional fire stations to match that density at some point.

To say that HR firefighting requires no more than a hose is very misinformed, unfortunately. And the training is intensive, including understanding that HR firefighting tactics require a completely different mindset and philosophy than Valley fire departments have been geared to tackle over the decades.

I can't speak for Arrendondo( I do hear he is good guy, that really cares about Tempe, though) and whether he truly is concerned with this issue or it's just a debate tactic meant to justify his desire to keep Tempe small-townish, but just for the record he does have relatives who are firemen in Phoenix, including one who has quite a bit of experience and some rank both on the job and in the local union, so I'm presuming he's getting at least some of his information from that direction, FWIW.

BTW, Manzanita Hall has to be considered a high rise in terms of tactics. Anything beyond a 3-5 story mid-rise is a completely different animal that entirely changes the firefighting game.

All this aside, my personal opinion is in agreement with many of you-Arrendono is eventually going to have to accept that Tempe is becoming a big city. But it needs to be said that there are serious expenses involved and as a representative of the city's citizens he has to at least bring that issue forward.

That's my 2 cents.

vertex

Aug 9, 2007, 1:04 PM

Thanks for the insight Solediavolo, duly noted. And welcome to the Forum. :tup:

PhxSprawler

Aug 9, 2007, 5:01 PM

Here are some quick pics I took yesterday while rushing through Tempe. I do not claim to be a photographer, so I apologize in advance for the bad angles/lighting. ;)

Lightrail on Apache

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1212/1055924311_98d0877992.jpg?v=0

New Development on Apache and McAllister (Former Mariposa Hall site- I will edit this when I have the name of the place!)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1059/1055924393_9ff7147d45.jpg?v=0

Looking towards University Square

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1227/1062114597_d7a0a4e931.jpg?v=0

Centerpoint I from the Southeast

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1417/1055924531_a928b29efa.jpg?v=0

Centerpoint I and II from the Southwest (Completing the 12th storey on tower 2, three storeys higher than my last post)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1276/1055924553_aa33579fc1.jpg?v=0

Centerpoint I and II from the Northwest

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1302/1062366834_60e04248de.jpg?v=0

Centerpoint I and II from the Northwest2

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1181/1062366842_1dcacd3a91.jpg?v=1186677685

Centerpoint I and II from the Northeast

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1324/1062366862_6d8a0c1235.jpg?v=0

Centerpoint I and II from the Northeast2

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1015/1062366870_697275f82b.jpg?v=1186677807

Centerpoint I view from Gammage

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1237/1062366916_98a3c9643e.jpg?v=0

and finally... Good ol' Gammage Auditorium

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1005/1062366930_f3093b12d8.jpg?v=0

Go Devils!

DevdogAZ

Aug 9, 2007, 9:09 PM

New Development on Apache and McAllister (Former Mariposa Hall site- I will edit this when I have the name of the place!)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1059/1055924393_9ff7147d45.jpg?v=0
Go Devils!
Apparently that project is called Vista del Sol. It's student housing owned by ASU, but they contracted with American Campus Communities to build and manage it. Here's the project info page on ACC's website: http://www.studenthousing.com/portfolio/prop_detail.asp?propertyID=95

JAHOPL

Aug 10, 2007, 4:06 PM

See this Tribune article for an interesting front-page story on Centerpoint and surrounding area in this morning's paper:

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/94864

There was a computer-graphic view in the paper edition looking down the same street at how everything proposed would look a few years from now.

HX_Guy

Aug 10, 2007, 5:01 PM

Here is the AZ Republic story with rendering:

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/pics/breaking/0810tr-teardown.jpg

It's likely curtains for Mill theater

Katie Nelson
The Arizona Republic
Aug. 10, 2007 08:53 AM
Tempe's main downtown movie theater likely is going to disappear.

DMB Associates, Inc., the Scottsdale developer that built and maintains the "Centerpoint on Mill," has ambitious redevelopment goals.

The development company oversees the 24 acres at the northwestern corner of Mill Avenue and University Drive. The Harkins Centerpoint 11 and the Coffee Plantation retail strip will be torn down in the coming years to make room for newer, taller buildings. The Chase and PF Chang's buildings will remain.

Built in 1993, the Harkins Centerpoint was one of the first theaters with high-backed rocking chairs, but one of the last built without stadium seating. Harkins in June opened a 16-plex with all the latest technology a couple miles away at Rio Salado Parkway and McClintock Drive.

"It's all about staying relevant while things change around us," said Karrin Taylor, a DMB vice president. "Our plans, I think, are reflective of the evolution of the market and evolution of the synergies that are occurring in downtown Tempe."

DMB was one of the pioneers in transforming Tempe's core. The company's investment helped transition downtown from a place full of gritty bars and mechanic shops to a shopping and nightlife destination.

DMB is in talks with an unspecified hotelier to install a 200-room hotel with a health club that will be open to the public, Taylor said. Two other buildings, where Coffee Plantation is now and the one behind it, will be torn down and replaced with high rises that contain retail on the ground floor and condos on top. The timeline will depend on market needs, he said.

The city has yet to approve any building plans.

In the meantime, the company is replacing the teal-color paint theme with a more modern black and maroon detailing and installing blue awnings.

KEVINphx

Aug 10, 2007, 7:02 PM

LAME.

i dont want to drive to tempe marketplace to see a movie! they should re-develop with a new theater in the project!

or at least WAIT to demolish the place till the building is going to actually get built, i can easily see the place being demolished and then the tower waiting on the market......and empty lot.

vertex

Aug 10, 2007, 10:24 PM

^^^I agree, why not rebuild a smaller version of the theater, and use it like they do with Camelview 5?

bwonger06

Aug 10, 2007, 11:57 PM

agree i like my indie films and although camelview isnt to far, im really sure a independent film theatre can really flourish around ASU because Valley Art is too small to with only one theatre.

it will really be intersting to see how Mill avenue is going to transform in a few years. Its always been a pretty cool college hangout place, but the way things are going now, it might become Scottsdale South, all ritzy and what not.

PhxSprawler

Aug 11, 2007, 12:15 AM

:fingerscrossed: agree i like my indie films and although camelview isnt to far, im really sure a independent film theatre can really flourish around ASU because Valley Art is too small to with only one theatre.

it will really be intersting to see how Mill avenue is going to transform in a few years. Its always been a pretty cool college hangout place, but the way things are going now, it might become Scottsdale South, all ritzy and what not.

Since ASU is not going anywhere, I imagine it will have to hold on to its "cool college hangout" atmosphere. Hopefully, the condos have a lot of college kids with rich parents. :fingerscrossed:

I will miss that little place though. I spent so much time at the Coffee Plantation and Uno's. I haven't lived here a decade yet, but many of the places that bring back fuzzy memmories of my first days in AZ are going or gone.

loftlovr

Aug 11, 2007, 5:31 AM

This is some bullshit!
My favorite date night was Unos, then a Mill Ave stroll, then a Centerpoint 11 movie and a Coffee Plantation coffee.

Why not integrate these elements in to the project?

Assholes.
I fuckin hate this project now.
Fuckheads.

PhxSprawler

Aug 11, 2007, 7:50 PM

Vicelord John

Aug 11, 2007, 8:30 PM

fuckheads.... hahahaahha

SunDevil

Aug 12, 2007, 3:10 AM

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20040319h.jpg
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19

Vicelord John

Aug 12, 2007, 7:48 AM

2+3= cats...
i love it!

HX_Guy

Aug 13, 2007, 12:27 AM

Don B.

Aug 13, 2007, 1:07 AM

^ Monti's La Casa Vieja. This most be some sort of redevelopment project for that parcel of land.

Love the ancient maps they are using...no mention of the Loop 202
Freeway.

No other info is known at this time that I've seen - first I've heard of something potentially being that tall.

--don

dbUNIT16

Aug 13, 2007, 2:33 AM

There were four FAA applications received on 8/9/07 for 4 buildings all around 360' and the project names are "Moniti's A" Monti's B" etc.

Awesome! I can't wait until these projects get going! I think once two or three more get going there's going to be so much momentum it's going to be hard to stop!

desertdj

Aug 13, 2007, 4:02 PM

wow just came back from a weekend in San Diego and heard the news on centerpoint! that really sucks, I think there should be some kinda movie theater in downtown tempe. i think it sucks that all these tear downs will make everything all new and that a theater built 15 years ago is considered ancient. but the market dictates everything and we make up the market. if there is a demand for another theater in downtown it will happen.

HX_Guy

Aug 13, 2007, 4:09 PM

PHX31

Aug 13, 2007, 4:36 PM

Hmmmm... wasn't Michael Monti (or whatever his name was) on these boards a long while ago talking about the redevelopment of his property (but he wouldn't give specifics). That is interesting information regarding the 4 buildings... Hopefully he'll stick to his word and not tear down the actual historic la casa vieja. Wasn't that built in the mid 1800s?

PhxSprawler

Aug 13, 2007, 5:24 PM

There were four FAA applications received on 8/9/07 for 4 buildings all around 360' and the project names are "Moniti's A" Monti's B" etc.

Does anyone know what these are about?

https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=531858
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=531859
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=531860
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=531857

Wasn't there an arbitrary 300' limit the FAA and Tempe agreed upon for all (near) future buildings? I hope Monti's keeps its original building as promised also. I won't hold my breath on the height, but it will be interesting to see this materialize.

desertdj

Aug 13, 2007, 8:17 PM

maybe these developers (like the Marina Heights ones too), dont think anyone would like a 20 story tower in the area, so they say they will build a 30 story tower which makes 20 not seem so bad? Then when everyone is all going upset about the higher building then they "agree" to shorten the project.

desertdj

Aug 13, 2007, 8:20 PM

And in the tell us old news again file, this was in the Tribue today, but it gives a little more details on what's going to happen to the Mill.

Historic Tempe mill will see glass addition
Ed Taylor, Tribune
One of the most historic buildings in Tempe will be revived and given a glass-enclosed addition, according to plans drawn up by architects for the dormant Hayden Flour Mill site.

Tempe-based Avenue Communities, developer of the property, and its architecture firm, Substance Design Consortium, have produced renderings that show the mill building and its separate iconic silo structure retained in their existing form but with a five-story glass office building in between and wrapped on top on the mill.

Machinery once used to grind flour inside the mill will be displayed vertically at the northeast corner of the addition, visible through glass from a plaza below. Also the machinery would be visible from a glass-enclosed elevator, according to the plans, which have been approved by the Tempe Historic Preservation Commission.

The 1918 mill building - not to be confused with the separate silo structure that was added in 1951 - will contain a restaurant, retail stores and offices.

Archaeological structures, including an intact stone archway that straddled a canal once providing water power for the mill, will be preserved beneath the glassy addition.

“What makes this project unique is for the old and the new to interact with each other,” said architect Jose Pombo.

Also part of the redevelopment project is a single-story building fronting on Mill Avenue that will contain boutique retail stores. And a winery will be housed in a new structure at the southwest corner of the site.

The taller silos and grain elevator will not be touched initially, but they could be modified for other uses in a second phase, said Rick Labonte, project manager for Avenue Communities. He declined to say what options the company is considering but said Avenue Communities has been looking at silo-reuse projects in Akron, Ohio and Denver in which the structures were converted into hotel rooms and condos.

“We want to make sure we understand what is in front of us,” he said.

Labonte called the site “a tremendous opportunity” for his company because “the historic amenities are about a rich as you can find in the Valley.”

The entire project, including both phases, is expected to cost $500 million.

Under the firm’s development agreement with the city, construction is scheduled to begin by March 2008, and the first phase will open in late 2009.

Mayor Hugh Hallman, who has been deeply involved in preserving the Hayden buildings, said the design meets the desire of the historic preservation commission for an addition that is distinguishable from the historic mill, making it clear what is historic and what is modern while fitting well together.

“I’m excited. I’m eager to get it under way,” he said.

Hallman believes a boutique hotel will be the best use for the silo structure. Because of its narrow depth, it probably would need an addition on the back similar to the addition to the mill building, he said.

History of the Hayden Flour Mill
119 S. Mill Avenue, Tempe
The oldest continuously used industrial site in the Salt River Valley

1874 - Charles T. Hayden builds first mill on the site; along with store, warehouse, blacksmith shop and ferry it becomes the trade center of the south side of the Salt River.
1895 - First mill, made of adobe, burns; second mill built, also made of adobe
1917 - Second mill burns
1918 - Existing four-story mill is built, the first cast-in-place concrete building in Tempe
1924 - Salt River Project extends electricity to the mill, replacing the water power that operated the mill for half a century
1951 - 150-foot tall concrete grain elevator with seven silos is added, providing storage capacity for 18 million pounds of grain
1981 - Hayden family sells facility to Bay State Milling Co., which expands production
1998 - Milling operations cease
2002 - Three-alarm fire burns but does not destroy the vacant mill building because of its fire-resistant construction
2006 - Archeological studies reveal foundations, other old structures connected with milling operations
2006 - Avenue Communities selected Tempe to redevelop site

NIXPHX77

Aug 14, 2007, 12:11 AM

Hi everyone,
I'm a fairly new poster; love this website.
here's a link to some Tempe info which I hope is informative
and not old news:

http://www.tempe.gov/comdev/WeeklyUpdate/10AUG07.pdf
http://www.tempe.gov/comdev/WeeklyUpdate/10AUG07.pdf

PS - i hope i did the link correctly. sorry if i did not.

desertdj

Aug 14, 2007, 2:54 AM

Cool updates in that pdf, thanks for the link! I'll see if I can attend that public forum on that Sept. 12th if I don't have too much homework then!

andrewkfromaz

Aug 14, 2007, 5:05 AM

I agree that it's terrible to tear down the theatre without replacing it with another one. Part of the draw of living in a downtown area is having amenities you can walk to. I don't think anyone wants to live in an area of just high rise residential and offices then have to get in the car to see a movie or get something to eat.
I agree the theater should be retained or at least replaced with another theater, but I'd love to see the development north along Mill torn down, with the nasty fountains and concrete jungle plaza behind Body Works. Is this part of the land owned by DMB? Or is it just the area further south and east to the theater?

desertdj

Aug 28, 2007, 7:16 PM

I thought I would break the silence on the Tempe message board.
There are new pictures for the design that was approved for the bridge crossing Tempe Town Lake in front of the new Tempe Center for the Arts. Looks really awesome! I do have to give it to Tempe, great cities also have great memorable bridges. Most in the Phoenix Metro area are very forgetable. But Tempe has the Mill Ave. bridge, and a couple unique bridges that cross the US 60.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b31/desertdj/1251697697_bfd49a2942_m.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b31/desertdj/1251697581_84b25bfcba_m.jpg

PhxSprawler

Aug 28, 2007, 7:54 PM

vertex

Aug 28, 2007, 7:55 PM

Nice, I wonder if they'll drain the lake, build this, and rebuild the dam all at the same time.

andrewkfromaz

Aug 29, 2007, 12:24 AM

If I remember correctly, the dam isn't scheduled to be rebuilt for a number of years. Additionally, there is pump machinery and a number of steel panels set up so that they can actually do some work on (or replace) the bladders without draining the lake. The pumps can also allow the dam to overflow without draining the lake, for decorative purposes. Look for the dam to have water running over it when the Tempe Center for the Arts opens, or when there is a lot of rain.

Incidentally, the view from under the dam (on the concrete platform near the bladders) is actually pretty impressive.

I doubt they would have to drain the lake in order to build the pedestrian bridge anyway. The light rail bridge, which was just recently finished, didn't require draining the lake.

I must agree, this bridge looks pretty cool. Any idea who designed it? It looks like it's trying to be a Calatrava design, but I don't think it is.

nbrindley

Aug 29, 2007, 1:50 AM

wow, I love the design.

Upward

Aug 29, 2007, 3:37 AM

What?! They're demolishing the theater?! So there will no longer be a movie theater that ASU students can reach without driving? Great.

Arizona will never get out of the dark ages if everything is torn down for the latest fad every 20 years. The Centerpoint theater may be a bit outdated, but that's only because people in Phoenix are spoiled by stadium-style theaters*. Nowhere else are they tearing down all the "old" (and by that I mean pre-2000) theaters for new ones. I went to that theater all the time when I was at ASU, and I almost always walked (not to daytime movies during the summer, but that's a different story). That theater was one of the last remaining parts of downtown Tempe that actually catered to the students. It's a mistake to turn the area around the university into a yuppie playground that few students can afford to patronize (if they'd even want to).

* Seriously, what's the deal with this? Stadium-style theaters are nowhere near as common in Southern California, where they make the goddamn movies and where there are a lot more wealthy people and generally upscale things.

JAHOPL

Aug 29, 2007, 3:47 PM

August 28, 2007
High-rise could tower above Monti's on Mill Avenue
Garin Groff, Tribune

Plans to redevelop the historic Monti's La Casa Vieja call for building a 24-story tower directly above the downtown Tempe landmark.

The restaurant is one of the state's most treasured landmarks - and a place history buffs have feared could be bulldozed to make way for a high-rise building.

Restaurant owner Michael Monti said constructing a building on top of the restaurant is the only way to preserve the beloved adobe building. Monti has struggled to make money in recent years as his loyal customer base ages and is turned off by downtown's urban transformation.

The high-rise proposal would let Monti keep the restaurant while allowing redevelopment of a property at the gateway to downtown.

"I view this project as saving that building by making that corner economically viable," he said.

Monti recently inked a deal to sell the La Casa Vieja building and about 2.5 acres of land to Scottsdale-based 3W Companies. The company's plans call for the new building above Monti's and a 26-story building to the west, with a total of more than 1 million square feet of available space. They'd each stand about 300 feet tall.

The high-rise concept got a less-than-welcome reception from the state's historic preservation officer, James Garrison. While historic building advocates generally acknowledge economic forces demand additions and changes, historic buildings are supposed to remain a dominant feature in a development, he said.

"It is hard to imagine that this would be compatible with the historic property," Garrison said.

The building is a rare - and perhaps the best - example of an adobe building from that era, Garrison said. He considers it the Valley's most important historic structure.

Downtown merchant Vic Linoff questioned why one of the towers needs to be built above the historic building.

The property is about 109,000 square feet, while the restaurant is just 13,000 square feet. The lot should be big enough to reconfigure the towers so they sit behind La Casa Vieja and frame the adobe building, said Linoff, who closely follows historic issues in Tempe.

"Why would you go over the top of it?" Linoff asked.

"Then you have no sense of context for that building at all. To me that is quite disappointing."

The chairman of Tempe's Historic Preservation Commission said he was initially shocked by the idea.

But Bob Gasser said he became more comfortable after talking with Monti.

Gasser, who dines at the restaurant and often sits at the same table, said he believes Monti genuinely wants to preserve the history of the place. The historic integrity could improve in some ways, Gasser said, by tearing down modern additions to it.

Still, he knows why Linoff and others won't want a building on top of Monti's.

"I can see why Vic would make that comment and I think a lot of people will," Gasser said. "But the idea of keeping a one-story building there is just not remotely realistic as much as we might like it."

La Casa Vieja was built in 1873 by Tempe founder Charles Trumbull Hayden, who also build the Hayden Flour Mill across the street. Carl Hayden was born in the house, going on to become a senator and one of the state's most important figures.

It is the Valley's oldest surviving building.

The home evolved into a hotel, store and a boarding house. It has been a restaurant more than a half-century, bought in the 1950s by Leonard Monti, Michael's father.

Monti figures the tower of condos and a hotel are just another chapter in the site's evolution.

"That is completely consistent with its use from the time that Carl Hayden built it," Monti said.

Some of Monti's oldest customers recall living in the building decades ago - and they'll still be able to see features from that era after the new building goes up, Monti said.

He is working to preserve the walls and the historic elements of the building, while replacing some homely fixtures. Two additions from the 1960s and 1970s, which make up about half the building, will be torn down.

He expects to keep his restaurant open at for at least a year before shutting it down while the tower is built.

Monti expects to open a more upscale restaurant that will better cater to the increasingly high-end offices and condos downtown. He plans to display many of the historic items he now has, only in a better way.

"Some people think a historic building should just stand alone like a historic display," Monti said. "A historic building is alive. It needs to be used and it needs to be experienced by the public."

The project faces several hurdles. The plan calls for putting 14 pillars inside the historic structure to support the tower, and their construction could cause significant damage.

But a newer plan is being drawn up that could reduce the number of columns or place all of them outside the building, Monti said.

Also, the tower above the restaurant is in an area where Tempe has called for buildings of 75 feet or less. The Federal Aviation Administration will also consider whether the buildings would be a safety hazard for airliners.

The city cannot prevent property owners from altering historic buildings or even tearing them down. But the city will consider the history and the property's key location as it evaluates the proposal, said Chris Anaradian, Tempe's development services director.

"It is the gateway to our downtown," he said. "We are keeping that in mind as well and expecting a really excellent project here."

Sekkle

Aug 29, 2007, 5:23 PM

They'd each stand about 300 feet tall.
I would be extremely surprised if that height were ok'd. It's basically right in the flight path.

sundevilgrad

Aug 29, 2007, 5:25 PM

I would be extremely surprised if that height were ok'd. It's basically right in the flight path.

My thoughts exactly.

desertdj

Aug 29, 2007, 6:00 PM

I don't mind seeing that lot next to Monti's getting developed, surface lots don't belong in a downtown anyway. My guess, that 26 stories will be dropped in half, but I think no more than 16-18. I can also understand the decision to remove the "non" historic part of Monti's. But I can't justify "putting 14 pillars inside the historic structure to support the tower". With our engineering technology today, there has to be a way to build this without destroying the orginal building. Maybe a 1 or 2 story glass structure on top of Monti's would still highlight the building and add space if that's what they are looking for. And I agree with Upward, they are turning downtown Tempe into a "yuppie playground"

sundevilgrad

Aug 29, 2007, 6:13 PM

I can't imagine that they could go higher than the Marina Heights development to the east (i.e. further from the runway). Marina Heights will only be 253 ft...

Cranetastic

Aug 29, 2007, 6:54 PM

I would think the Onyx at 26 floors would be in the pathway as well. Personally I think a developer should take the history of that particular building into great consideration especiall with the available space down there on that lot. If they can build a 59 story building 900+ feet high with an open air atrium area ten floors high like the Citicorp building in New York in order to save a historic church then I think a small 26 story tower could extend over the building enough without any support columns to get the floor space they want without manipulating the current building. In fact I think that adds character to a site.

With Citysquare being 360' and Centerpoint being abou the same I think a little northward could see itself with a 300'er. Who knows though. Who's idea was it to put the airport in the middle of the city again? Between the noise it creates over every suburb and the restrictions it places on city growth I would have had no problem with the airport proposal a long time ago of high speed rail to an airport centrally located between Tucson and Phoenix.