[SamInTheLoop]

^^^ Yeah I gotta say I think Kamin gave a very fair review. Remember a critic's job is not to spout unjustified personal opinion, but rather to analyze a work from an artistic point of view.


I don't know....to be honest I disagree, I think it's entirely appropriate to, when a work of art is so highly offensive and, I would say "silly" as at least I and others find the Elysian to be, reflexively dismiss (in a professional critic-appropriate way, of course!) LaGrange's work is, simply put, not relevant to an architecture of today (or, in my opinion - ever!)

For sure, part of me wants to accept it as an urban design improvement, over say, a surface parking lot or a 1-story drugstore or fast food restaurant or what have you - however the just as forceful part of me that has a passion for great design is incurably nauseated by its presence and would trade it for the bare asphalt lot instead...

[Nowhereman1280]

But Kamin makes it clear its not his bag, but that even if it were his bag, there are still major issues with massing and detailing. I mean I don't think its the critic's job to enforce their personal aesthetic tastes as much as it is to analyze the design from the perspective of what its style is trying to achieve. In this case he makes it quite clear that, when assuming Neo-classical architecture is what you are shooting for, parts of Elysian are pretty good, while much of it is quite off.

From an urban planning perspective it is pretty good. I also think it will look a lot better with age when the color fades a bit and some dirt gets worked into the concrete.

[Dylan Leblanc]

So the spires, or roof spikes, are not part of the final design?

[texcolo]

It needs a twin, that way they could call them the Jeff and Akbar Towers...

http://jakerake.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/akbarjeff.jpg
http://jakerake.wordpress.com/2009/02/26/wikipairs/

[Zerton]

The 'hat' makes a bad building into a horrible one.

[Dylan Leblanc]

it looks like it should have a tassle hanging off the roof!! LOL!!!!:jester:

When the window washing equipment is in use the building will have a tassle hanging off of it!!

[Dylan Leblanc]

Wow, Emporis states the height as 208.99 m / 686 ft (link (http://www.emporis.com/application/?nav=building&lng=3&id=188061)) and the CTBUH states the height as 213.74 m / 701 ft (link (http://buildingdb.ctbuh.org/?do=building&building_id=1484)). I wonder why the difference?

[Nowhereman1280]

Wow, Emporis states the height as 208.99 m / 686 ft (link (http://www.emporis.com/application/?nav=building&lng=3&id=188061)) and the CTBUH states the height as 213.74 m / 701 ft (link (http://buildingdb.ctbuh.org/?do=building&building_id=1484)). I wonder why the difference?

Ctbuh is wrong. The original height quoted was 701, but after being VE'd into an even more ugly reincarnation, it was lowered to 686. 701' is old data.

[Dylan Leblanc]

Hey thanks, knowhereman! :)

[Northwest]

Ctbuh is wrong. The original height quoted was 701, but after being VE'd into an even more ugly reincarnation, it was lowered to 686. 701' is old data.

I cant imagine the four corner spike are that costly. A few tens of thousands to put them back in would really help, but it doesnt look like its going to happen.
Is this thing complete yet? The hotel is open?

[Nowhereman1280]

I cant imagine the four corner spike are that costly. A few tens of thousands to put them back in would really help, but it doesnt look like its going to happen.


Its not the corners that did it. They completely reconfigured the top when they did the VE and basically dropped it a little lower and made the "cap" part more stretched in order to fit the water counter weights.

[george]

6-18

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/2772/el1o.jpg (http://img580.imageshack.us/i/el1o.jpg/)
The roofing panels being removed.

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/1249/el2.jpg (http://img580.imageshack.us/i/el2.jpg/)

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/1839/el3j.jpg (http://img94.imageshack.us/i/el3j.jpg/)

[mrnyc]

profoundly ugly innit? oh well.

[wrab]

(dup).....

[wrab]

7/15

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4117/4804060768_58b8bf8093_b.jpg

[eaguir3]

Doesn't look too bad in that angle

[caltrane74]

OH MY FCKING GOD!!!!! what a BEAUTIFUL BUILDING!!!!!

i JUST LOVE IT

[patriotizzy]

It looks nice looking at it from the bottom. It doesn't do much when looking at it from a bit away.

[J_M_Tungsten]

So what's with the green on the top? Is that still an insulation panel or what?

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

uhhhhh.....ewwww,srry this one need to lose the "hat"

[chex]

same question about the green part????
and the hat now that everybody hates it, it loos to me like a warehouse roof..

[ChicagoHiRiser]

Uggh that green's gotta go. I used to think and hope from the El/bus that it was insulation or something to eventually get covered up. But now that I see those ugly green door coverings..ugh. Looks nasty and completely out of place, colorwise, with the rest of the building.

How does the top of this building look vs. the original renderings? I don't remember that hat nor the lime green. This developer gets an F in terms of delivering promised product if that green isn't covered up.

[Kippis]

Uggh that green's gotta go. I used to think and hope from the El/bus that it was insulation or something to eventually get covered up. But now that I see those ugly green door coverings..ugh. Looks nasty and completely out of place, colorwise, with the rest of the building.

I think the green details were a personal request from Lucien Lagrange...it was his last middle finger to the city of Chicago.

[Hayward]

The green is craptacular. At least you other ssp folks can be done with it by simply moving to another thread. My computer is next to the window and I have clear view of the Elysian with it's head infection.

[emathias]

I was walking past the Elysian last night and at first I thought there was a boisterous wedding being held there - there was a limobus and a lot of guys wearing black suits. But then I got closer and there were also about 10 cops keeping a watchful eye on a group of protesters chanting in French and holding signs in French. They were all dark black (except for a white walker-by who joined them), and they could have been African or Haitian. I don't know enough French to get the geist of what they were saying, but after a few minutes they got louder, the cops had a quick group meeting, and then the limobus, a towncar and both marked and unmarked police escort on the front and back of the convoy took off down State Street, sirens on full.

Anyone have any idea who/what would have been going on last night there to warrant both a large police escort and French-speaking protesters?

[Nowhereman1280]

^^^ Probably French people protesting LaGrange's use of the words "French Elegance" to describe Elysian...

[VivaLFuego]

^You mean "Freedom Elegance."

[jcchii]

funny.............^

[spyguy]

Damn thing pops up everywhere.
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/7084/p1010734t.jpg
Reminds me of another French work of art ;)
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/5769/k20ao3vz.jpg
gravitywave/ flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gravitywave/400973406/)

[george]

The green is a match,^you got that right... and I was waiting for the insulation green awnings to get the same aluminum sheathing. ha

[woodrow]

ATTENTION - Everyone MUST click on Lynn Becker's blog entry here (http://arcchicago.blogspot.com/2010/08/lucien-in-dali-land-or-limp-building-or.html) Sums up so very much about the building.

[headcase]

I found this amusing, and horrifying. (http://arcchicago.blogspot.com/2010/08/lucien-in-dali-land-or-limp-building-or.html)


A few weeks ago, the previously completed Mansard roof was encased in scaffolding - apparently some touch-ups were required to the original construction. Now, similar rehab work is going on in the carriage court, and that's the source of the photo's you see above. The usual ugly open scaffolding just wouldn't do, so the building has created fabric replicas of the facades to place over the scaffolding.

It's one of the trippiest architectural visions you're likely to see. In it's emulation of a dead style, Lagrange's designs are already a fake. So now, with the fabric hangings, we have a fake of a fake. (Is it too much to hope that the irony was intentional?) The way the hangings droop and crinkle, it's like the courtyard facades are melting under the heat of their own strained artifice. Christo couldn't have done it any better.

Pictures by Lynn Becker from the article.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_OvonoKii_ds/THSN-pCg6KI/AAAAAAAAGKA/zT-HcmNcudU/s400/elysianjoin.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_OvonoKii_ds/THSNv4zQ4YI/AAAAAAAAGJY/4ctNm_PVzf0/s400/elysiancornerfab.jpg

SSDD

[J_M_Tungsten]

[url=http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=188061]The Elysian

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/images_2/500/6324the_elysian.jpg
.

If only they kept it somewhat true to the originial design, it could have been mediocre :(

[colemonkee]

Man, the green arches at the crown are just shit icing on the shit cake.

[Steely Dan]

^ :haha: that sounds like a line from Lahey on Trailer Park Boys.

[alex1]

this one is exceptionally bad.

[FrancoRey]

Meh. It could look A LOT worse.

Then again, when it comes to skyscrapers in Denver, I always set the bar low and expect disappointment.

[the urban politician]

What work are they still doing on this thing?

[Chicagoguy]

Surely that green has to come off at some point? And I really do wish they would just add the roof spikes like in the original design! I think it would honestly make the building look so much better...

Also has any/will any retail go in along the State Street side of the building?

[Hayward]

I found this amusing, and horrifying. (http://arcchicago.blogspot.com/2010/08/lucien-in-dali-land-or-limp-building-or.html)



Pictures by Lynn Becker from the article.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_OvonoKii_ds/THSN-pCg6KI/AAAAAAAAGKA/zT-HcmNcudU/s400/elysianjoin.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_OvonoKii_ds/THSNv4zQ4YI/AAAAAAAAGJY/4ctNm_PVzf0/s400/elysiancornerfab.jpg

SSDD

Oh man, this was a relief. When I saw the Elysian from my roof, I thought my eyes were messing with me as I looked down at the carriage court. "The facade looks like....it's blowing in the wind?!?!? wtf

[photoLith]

God this is worse than our train wreck in Houston Embassy Suites, at least our train wreck cant be seen in the skyline.

[Alliance]

At least the roof isnt green? It appears the same color as the arches on the render...and definitely greener than the rest of the black on the facade.

Still a disaster though. I wish I was shocked.

[wrab]

Skyline shot from the Belden Stratford in Lincoln Park - The Elysian is on the far right. Note how the Mighty Big John obliterates all skyline mediocrities within a 1/2-mile radius:


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4109/4950625822_da8f615326_b.jpg

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

i dont think JHC likes Elaysian very much :haha:

[Troubadour]

Come on, the fez/dunce cap really isn't that bad.

[Nowhereman1280]

^^^ Maybe it would be ok in California, but we have extremely high standards in our skyscraper museum of a city.

[Aleks]

lol, i guess you guys never sent the memo to the architect!

but i don't think it's that bad of a building. the windows are way too small and that green looks hideous. but from afar it looks decent. it's not as hideous as some make it seem, but it definitely needed more work during the designing process.

[denizen467]

lol, i guess you guys never sent the memo to the architect!
No, that would be the developer who forced the VE'ing. The starting point of the design (see render) was not this mess. We may never know what options were available to LaGrange as he accommodated the VE'ing.

[Steely Dan]

l but it definitely needed more work during the designing process.

no. as denizen pointed out above, what this project definitely needed was A LOT less value engineering. lagrange's starting point wasn't terribly interesting architecture, but at least it wasn't the unmitigated train wreck we now have as a result of all the unrelenting corner cutting.

[Nowhereman1280]

lol, i guess you guys never sent the memo to the architect!

but i don't think it's that bad of a building. the windows are way too small and that green looks hideous. but from afar it looks decent. it's not as hideous as some make it seem, but it definitely needed more work during the designing process.

I'm going to disagree with you all and say that the entire concept of this design is inherently flawed and poisonous filth that doesn't belong within 1000 miles of Chicago. Seriously, I've said in the past that with a lot more money this could have been a decent building, but I change my mind.

I'm sorry but no amount of money can justify this kind of architecture. I don't care if you freaking plate it in gold, its still philosophically void and shallow architecture that doesn't deserve to be within 1000 miles of 860-880, the JHC, or the likes. Its a pretty decent building from an urban planning perspective since it doesn't abuse the pedestrian like many, but they they go and build that god awful motor court.

All I have to say is come on, we should have higher standards than a 60 story version of the Louvre, but made of concrete and tin.

[Steely Dan]

I'm going to disagree with you all and say that the entire concept of this design is inherently flawed and poisonous filth that doesn't belong within 1000 miles of Chicago. Seriously, I've said in the past that with a lot more money this could have been a decent building, but I change my mind.

I'm sorry but no amount of money can justify this kind of architecture. I don't care if you freaking plate it in gold, its still philosophically void and shallow architecture that doesn't deserve to be within 1000 miles of 860-880, the JHC, or the likes. Its a pretty decent building from an urban planning perspective since it doesn't abuse the pedestrian like many, but they they go and build that god awful motor court.

All I have to say is come on, we should have higher standards than a 60 story version of the Louvre, but made of concrete and tin.

i find life is far too short to be that unrelentingly dogmatic. had this design been executed in a proper fashion, it would have by no means been anything that i would have considered great or wonderful on the level of JHC or any of mies' masterpieces, but it could have been a perfectly ok po-mo building. to me, chicago is a city that is large enough to accommodate a wide diversity of architectural styles from various philosophies.

what happened here though is that we got an utterly cheaped-out hatchet job. i guess i just don't find the philosophy behind historicist works like this to be as toxic as you think it is, but the cut-every-corner VE mentality that ruined this building is indeed poisonous for our city.

[ardecila]

I like the motor court and find it to be quite urban. There's no reason that autos and pedestrians can't occupy the same spaces comfortably, if those spaces are design properly.

[i_am_hydrogen]

Taken tonight:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/4955407891_5578976c4f_o.jpg

[wrab]

^ Spectacular shot, hydro.


----


When buildings attack:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/wjcordier/P9033263d.jpg

[wrab]

Looks as though the green unibrows at the base of the crown are permanent?

[Northwest]

Looks as though the green unibrows at the base of the crown are permanent?

Yikes!! I sure hope not. Surely thats some kind of protective coating to be removed soon... if not, then we need to hold a bake sale benefit for the Elysian and get them a couple gallons of paint.
That penthouse with the outdoor space looks pretty sweet... but those elliptical windows are soo tacky!! Could the owner have them removed and replaced? If that were to happen, that person would be my hero.

[viewguysf]

^^^ Maybe it would be ok in California, but we have extremely high standards in our skyscraper museum of a city.

Oh please--not in Northern California, the Bay Area or San Francisco!

[viewguysf]

^ Spectacular shot, hydro.


----


When buildings attack:

Spectacularly cleaver shot yourself wrabbit!! :tup:

[kingkirbythe....]

It's a very nice looking building. I like it. :-)

[eaguir3]

what are they doing on the roof?

[wrab]

^ For window-washing.

[brian.odonnell20]

what a queer name for a skyscraper.

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

NYC's Elysian

http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2009_3rd/TajPierreHotelNewYorkCity.jpg
http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2009_3rd/TajPierreHotelNewYorkCity.jpg

[chex]

i see that Chicago seems to enjoy having balconies, for the times of good weather, but being Chicago known as the 'windy city', does people really enjoy their balconies?

[Kippis]

Looks as though the green unibrows at the base of the crown are permanent?

I seriously doubt it. Besides, if they don't paint them to match the rest of the trim, I will seek out Lagrange myself and force him up there to paint it in his underwear. ;)

i see that Chicago seems to enjoy having balconies, for the times of good weather, but being Chicago known as the 'windy city', does people really enjoy their balconies?

Yes, we do enjoy our balconies. I have a balcony myself, and whenever the weather is nice enough I'm out there either lounging or grilling. As for the "Windy City" moniker...well, nevermind. I'm still looking for deck chairs that won't blow around on a windy day...

[i_am_hydrogen]

what a queer name for a skyscraper.

Why is that? Are you a bit thin on your Greek mythology?

[chex]

Yes, we do enjoy our balconies. I have a balcony myself, and whenever the weather is nice enough I'm out there either lounging or grilling. As for the "Windy City" moniker...well, nevermind. I'm still looking for deck chairs that won't blow around on a windy day...

i would love to have one of those apartments with a balcony, even in the windy city!
but i would never expect walking on the sidewalk and have an impact from a falling deck chair from 60 floors up!!

[ChiPsy]

^ Not to get off-topic, but Chicago's average wind-speed is only modestly above the U.S. average -- and balcony rails generally prevent things from blowing off high-rise balconies.

http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/online/ccd/avgwind.html

Now if someone could only summon a maelstrom of winds sufficient to blow the green coating off the remaining trim on the Elysian (if that's what it is), I'd be grateful.

[brian.odonnell20]

Why is that? Are you a bit thin on your Greek mythology?

I know what elysian means. its the greek heaven or something. but kind of lame/stupid to name a building that.

[Zerton]

Balconies generally make skyscrapers ugly. One exception off the top of my head is Aqua.

[wrab]

^ Another is Marina City. I also really like the balconies on SoNo & 235 W VB.

[kingkirbythe....]

The 'Windy City' name has about a 1 in 4 chance of being about wind. I tend to think it got the nickname from the blowhard politicians that Chicago is so famous for. Here's a link for some possible origins.

http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Windy-City

[Nowhereman1280]

I don't know if its that Chicagoans like balconies more than any other people. I think its a result of the fact that Chicagoans seem to love to live in highrises. It really is a highrise living type of town. Its not like we are forced to build so many residential towers, we just love to live in them so we build a ton of them. If you look at residential towers, there is a good mix of balconied vs unbalconied towers. There is a whole range of people who love everything from the full exposed balconies on Marina City to inset balconies like on Legacy to pseudo balcony "sky terraces" on JHC to no balconies at all. We just have a disproportionately high number of residential highrises so it seems like all the towers have em.



Yes, we do enjoy our balconies. I have a balcony myself, and whenever the weather is nice enough I'm out there either lounging or grilling. As for the "Windy City" moniker...well, nevermind. I'm still looking for deck chairs that won't blow around on a windy day...

See your problem is you are seeking a new kind of deck chair when you should be seeking a way to keep the current deckchairs in place. Just a little piece of twine would seem to be enough to do the trick.

But its pretty amazing to see stuff come off of the towers downtown during high winds. I saw something disk-shaped come off a tower and travel about three blocks down the street before colliding with a neighboring building and tumbling the rest of the way down one time.

[brian.odonnell20]

i think the windows look pretty sweet tho

[J_M_Tungsten]

So if this isn't a cruel joke, they are finally painting the green to black!
http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt1/JMTUNGSTEN/a97d45df.jpg

[patriotizzy]

So if this isn't a cruel joke, they are finally painting the green to black!
http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt1/JMTUNGSTEN/a97d45df.jpg

Was this always part of the plan? I don't know but I believe they're just trying to soften up the criticism a bit :P

[eaguir3]

uuh i dont know, i think we still need those spikes on top

[Alliance]

Elysian Bucks Condo Slowdown with More High-Priced Closings
BY DENNIS RODKIN

Full Article (http://www.chicagomag.com/Radar/Deal-Estate/December-2010/Elysian-Bucks-Condo-Slowdown-with-More-High-Priced-Closings/)

"What’s the key to the Elysian’s continued success during the slowdown? “We have a product that people really want,” Pisor said. The development team assembled handsome architecture, lavish but tasteful finishes, and a high-end restaurant that provides room service to all condos (and hotel rooms) in the tower. The large drive-in courtyard, a rarity in Chicago high-rises, helps set the building apart as an almost secluded urban haven."

[Chicagoguy]

Elysian Bucks Condo Slowdown with More High-Priced Closings
BY DENNIS RODKIN

Full Article (http://www.chicagomag.com/Radar/Deal-Estate/December-2010/Elysian-Bucks-Condo-Slowdown-with-More-High-Priced-Closings/)

"What’s the key to the Elysian’s continued success during the slowdown? “We have a product that people really want,” Pisor said. The development team assembled handsome architecture, lavish but tasteful finishes, and a high-end restaurant that provides room service to all condos (and hotel rooms) in the tower. The large drive-in courtyard, a rarity in Chicago high-rises, helps set the building apart as an almost secluded urban haven."

I just saw the penthouse for sale in this month's Michigan Avenue Magazine. It is the top 2 floors listed for something like $10.6 million. Its great to see units like this for sale and ACTUALLY selling in Chicago.

[Dwils01]

I kind of like the design. This tower reminds me a lot of One Park Tower in Mississauga which is one of my favourite tower in that city.
http://www.mississauga-condos.ca/account/5dfbf9f82bd2551e/pages/49562_1.jpg

[Hayward]

This should be relocated out of the construction section. I live practically across the street form this. There is currently no scheduled work permits at this time, no visible work or maintenance of any kind. Therefore, is officially a completed project.

[denizen467]

A couple months ago there was something somewhere on the upper half of the building that they were changing the color of (or there was some boom or crane around there) - is that done?

Though I guess getting 2 stars (!!) in the Michelin Guide for the Ria restaurant is sorta an indicator that the thing's completed.

[ChiTownCity]

This would look so much better with windows on its crown/hat thing...

[kingkirbythe....]

crown/hat thing = mansard roof
:-)

[george]

Check it, Curbed, On the Market:

http://chicago.curbed.com/archives/categories/gold_coast.php?page=2

[Hayward]

As unfortunate as the outside turned out, the unit is certainly spectacular.

[ardecila]

I would live there.

It's like the top of the Eiffel Tower - that unit would be the only place in the city where you don't have to look at the Elysian.

[wrab]

I wouldn't live there, but I'd visit all the time to use that great bathtub.

[spyguy]

It blends in better at night, from a distance:

http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/3491/5294920773dfc0881885b.jpg
jaimolas/ flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaimedelap/5294920773/in/photostream/)

[brian.odonnell20]

If they just took the "hat" off, it wouldn't even look that bad.

[Lecom]

crown/hat thing = mansard roof
:-)

Calling that crown/hat thing a "mansard roof" would be an insult to mansard roofs.

[Metranite]

The roof is supposed to be absurd. It's a mansurd roof.

[denizen467]

^ It was originally planned as a reasonably attractive mansard roof (see the renders). During construction it ended up getting VE'd into something rather different and unfortunate. Probably not much the architect could have done; blame the developer.

[wrab]

.....It's a mansurd roof.

Blandsard roof?

[wrab]

From the excellent Curbed Chicago website (http://chicago.curbed.com/):


Curbed Awards 2010 Real Estate: The Buildings!

Biggest Seller: No condo development has experienced as much success as Elysian during the recession. The building owns all the top spots in 2010 condo sales, and in one week alone at the beginning of this month, seven condos sold for a combined $36.3 million.

Read the Curbed Chicago article here. (http://chicago.curbed.com/archives/2010/12/30/curbed-awards-2010-real-estate-the-buildings.php)

[wrab]

^ The developer is clearly in touch with the sensibilities of a certain high-end segment of the market. Can't say I quite understand it, but the numbers here don't lie.

[denizen467]

^ I'd say it's three things:
--The motor court - it's like suburban country club privacy in the middle of the city (no developer has been so ambitious as to include an enclosed "front yard" like this in the heart of a highrise residential environment);
--The location - it's basically Oak & Michigan, yet it's off to the side enough for privacy; and
--The branding - the evocative french name, the rustic fin-de-siecle, je-ne-sais-quoi typeface, the french theme and the marketing website and materials that went with it (think of how many developers choose the bland, midwestern-flatland grid-coordinates, zero-imagination route of names like "600 Lake Shore Drive").

So other than those couple big hits, the dude probably lacks enough aesthetic sense to know the failsard roof was just one awful fail.

[SamInTheLoop]

^ The Elysian by Lucien Lagrange is such an all-around outrageous turd of a design, that it really solidifies in my mind how awful overall tastes still run for a substantial proportion of Chicagoans with money (or without money for that matter) - seeing the spate of closings this year at eye-popping prices.....especially in a city of such distinguised architectural tradition, it's pretty sad I have to say...

For other evidence of this, check downtown condo listings with pictures of how some folks have designed/furnished the interiors of their units in what are some of the better modern exterior designs of the recent boom - there's quite a number out there.....that you have regrettable absolute taste in design is one thing, but when you would willfilly design/furnish a unit in poor form that also violently clashes with a solid (or better) quality exterior design almost leaves one hopeless....

[ardecila]

I can't bring myself to be quite that snobby. Modern buildings should be flexible enough to accommodate the gamut of people's tastes in furnishings and decoration.

If the last boom has covered Chicago in turds, I blame the architectural community for putting out such crap. It is possible to make elegant, well-proportioned facades in both traditional and modern styles. These scars on our city are failures at this. But it's not the job of the public to have "acceptable taste". They don't see "well-composed" or "clumsy" design, only the rudiments of architectural style, square footage, and amenities. It's our responsibility as architects to design buildings that we can rightfully call well-designed.

[SamInTheLoop]

^ I don't know - perhaps I'd feel differently if I were an architect myself, but I'll reserve the right to retain a bit of snobbishness (or the ability to call a spade a spade as it were)......the public does have a lot of choice in the marketplace, and consumption dollars do reveal design taste, admittedly among many other things...

Truth be told I generally tend to agree with you - I definitely do blame architects more so than developers for putting up a POS..........no developer, even one who cares about nothing more than $$$, even on a ruthless budget and relentless VE program, has outlined to his/her commissioned architect that the end result must look like a crap.....I believe even under those circumstances, even average design architects can produce quality work deserving of their profession...