[combusean]

^ Central and Van Buren most likely ... the current location of Phoenix's Central Station bus depot

[pbenjamin]

This is what it is supposed to look like.
http://www.valleymetro.org/METRO_light_rail/How_to_Ride/Stations/images/Van%20Buren%20and%20Central-1.jpg
http://www.valleymetro.org/METRO_light_rail/How_to_Ride/Stations/images/Van%20Buren%20and%20Central-3.jpg

[combusean]

^ I love how they renedered the sky in that one.

But the sails seem a bit half-assed ... why do it this way? One good summer storm and they'll be all over the Valley.

[vertex]

Don't forget, the tall, vertical structures with the broad, horizontal 'fins' will provide shade as well, especially in the mid-to-late afternoon. Also, every station is supposed to have trees planted between the vertical structures.

[pbenjamin]

If you compare the two pictures, the fins in the vertical structures are in different positions. Does that imply that they are going to move with the sun?

[HX_Guy]

I was reading throught some articles posted on 44 Monroe's website and found one that states 44 Monroe will be the second tallest structure in Arizona, second only to Chase tower. The article is from last month...I'm curious what they have decided with the crown.

[HX_Guy]

So how tall will 44 Monroe really be?

There was a recent article about the crane being raised a final time from 380' to 438', is it safe to assume that is to the very top of the crane, or is that to the boom itself?

If it is to the top, that means the boom is a pretty good distance lower and it would be pretty difficult to reach 411' with no clearance.

[harryc]

Thanks for the extensive quote, never heard of this pushing thing before.
Here ( Chicago ) everyone still uses the quint old auger bits to drill a hole first, then slip the caisson sleeves in the hole.

Of course we have beautiful clay to work with.

[HX_Guy]

44 Monroe is finally peeking above the Hyatt in this angle from the Convention Center's webcam.

http://phoenix.gov/AGENCY/PHXPLAZA/camera1.jpg

[PHX31]

I was checking out progress last night, and from my count they are working on the floor deck of the 32nd story (or 33rd if you're a weirdo superstitious-type j/k). So, basically, the height you see now plus essentially two more stories and that'll be all she wrote! (then we can speculate and ultimately be disappointed by the "crown").

Why haven't we Phoenicians made a thread in the "Highrise Construction" forum for Summit Copper Square, The Sheradon, and 44 Monroe? Even if the threads would be semi-dead, at least some of the haters out there will realize there are a few towers currently under construction in downtown Phoenix. We could be blow-hards and stick out our chests for the sake of the forum a-holes.

[HX_Guy]

On the plus side, the final two stories are the tallest of them all at 12.25' floor to floor and there is a mechanical penthouse on top of it all at 11.5', so we're sitll looking at a minimum of another 36' added to the height it is currently at.

[Vicelord John]

Why haven't we Phoenicians made a thread in the "Highrise Construction" forum for Summit Copper Square, The Sheradon, and 44 Monroe?

because if we cannot spell Sheraton properly, how would we start an entire thread!?

[PHX31]

/\ HAHAHA... that iz a gud point yu gest made...

I failed to realize the heights of the top two floors were larger... I was beginning to think 44 Monroe would be shorter than I thought, but it may finish up quite nicely.

[soleri]

Damn, it's big.

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/1186/p1010001ah7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/5145/p1010007xj7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[HX_Guy]

Looks awesome...how are sales doing? Have they increased as predicted once they passed the 20th floor?

Looking at the second picture, we desperately need something tall built between the Sheraton and the Chase tower to fill in that gap. Central Park East will help. Also, we need something between Chase and 44 Monroe from this angle. The Jet would fit in pretty well right between the YMCA and the parking garage that can be seen in the picture.

[HooverDam]

^Don't forget about Central Park East, it'll be just north of Chase and very wide, so itll fill in that angle a bit.

Soleri, where did you take that photo from? It seems your vantage point is too far south and west to be taken from Roosevelt Square or Portland Place.

[soleri]

^I took the picture from the penthouse terrace at Embassy Condos. The views, even from the lower floors are amazing. And to think just ten years ago you could still buy a one-bedroom unit for around $75,000.

HX, the office was closed when I was there this afternoon or I would have gotten an update. I suspect there won't be much movement until the sales model moves inside the building.

[HX_Guy]

Here's a great photo from AZCentral.com...

http://www.nitnelav.com/MonroeSuntset.jpg

[Don B.]

^ It is a cool pic, although the article with it (talking about Phoenix's 113 degrees today) wasn't so "cool."

Thankfully I'm up in Prescott right now. Ahhhh....

--don

[PHX_PD]

I was experimenting with night shots and snapped this pic of 44 Monroe. The form being hoisted up is for the 33rd and final floor.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb56/Phoenixguy/44MonroeNight.jpg

[HX_Guy]

What a minute...what do you mean the final floor? I'm counting 31 physical floors completed, with work ongoing on the 32nd...and there will be 33, so there should be one more on top of the one being built.

[PHX31]

/\ Yeah, they are working on floor 32 right now. They need to build the ceiling(of 32)/floor(of 33) still, then floor 33 on top of that, then apparently a mechanical penthouse, then the crown.

[PHX_PD]

Yeah, if you look closely on the West side there are about 3 forms up which will be the ceiling of 32 / floor of 33. I use “floor” in the sense of what you actually stand on. I know what you mean though, with most of the forms yet to be put up plus the roof it’s actually like there are 2 floors left.

Anyway, it looks like it should easily pass US Bank with the crown. I tried to get a shot from due West down Monroe but I can’t without a tripod. Also, it looks like the South tower of the ASU dorms has begun construction, but same story with the tripod. Maybe one of these days if I’m up before sunset…

[HX_Guy]

Is there a tower crane up yet for the ASU dorms?

[PHX31]

It does seem the building will stand taller than the US Bank tower with the crown... only question is, what will the crown look like (hopefully like the rendering).

Regarding the ASU dorms... I thought I saw an auger over there.

[HX_Guy]

[QUOTE=PHX_PD;2912943]
Anyway, it looks like it should easily pass US Bank with the crown./QUOTE]

I don't know about "easily". It might inch it out, but remember the plans show the tower to top out at 356' plus 11' mech. penthouse for a total of 367'. That crown will need to be pretty tall, around 50' (since it will come off the top of the top floor, not off the mech. penthouse).

It will probably be very close and maybe edge out the US Bank tower by a few feet.

[HX_Guy]

32 physical floors up, one more floor to go.

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownJune262007/10.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownJune262007/5.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownJune262007/9.jpg

[PHX_PD]

Nice updates as always HX! And yes, "easily" is definitely an overstatement. It all depends on the viewing angle I guess. Regardless of the final height, I think that the two towers will really compliment each other well.

:cheers:

[vertex]

Ok, potentially a dumb question, but while I was going back to compare the older display model of 44 Monroe with the new one, I noticed that the height has dropped quite a bit, is me or is this true?

Display model, as shown in July 2006, post 120 (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=98405&page=5)

http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/4378/p1010014pr1.jpg


And the modified model from February, post 432 (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=98405&page=18)

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownOct13/downtown/1FDT0333.jpg


Note its size relative to the U.S.Bank, and that the number of floors haven't changed.

Is it standard operating procedure for developers and/or sales people to swap out scale models like this?

Judging by the images posted by HX_Guy, it appears that they are working on the last floor. It also looks to me like 44 Monroe will fall short of U.S Bank.

[HX_Guy]

It appears as if the US Bank tower was not to scale in their previous model vs. 44 Monroe being too tall. They probably replaced the model of the US Bank tower and the Monroe is the same building as before.

As for falling short of US Bank, it seems pretty accurate to the model. If you look at the top of the building (minus mechanical penthouse and crown) it falls right at about the same level that was shown in the model...

http://www.nitnelav.com/DTBeforeAfter/4.jpg

In the picture, 32 out of 33 floors are up, and the elevator shaft is up to level 33, so that is where the top floor ceiling will be. Seems about right, no?

[vertex]

I understand what you're saying. I was only drawing a comparison between the current photos and the original model.

Anyway, how can anyone account for all the previous chatter about Monroe edging past US Bank?

[PHX_PD]

Apologies for the shitty MS paint job, but it looks like the crown can edge it out without being really out of proportion with the rest of the building… maybe.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb56/Phoenixguy/4.jpg

[Azndragon837]

^ I agree on the drawing you did (pretty good one). I believe the building's crown will top off above US Bank by a hair, thereby making it Phoenix's 2nd tallest building (or 3rd if it falls short). REGARDLESS, this baby is tall in Phoenix's standards, and I am quite happy to see this blue beauty going up and filling in the skyline quite nicely.

-Andrew

[HX_Guy]

It looks like their webcam is back online, it hasn't worked in a couple weeks...

http://www.44monroe.com/images/camera/current_pic.jpg

[nbrindley]

my understanding is that the top of the elevator shaft shown there is level with the roof of the top occupied floor. Then there is a mechanical penthouse still on top of that, along with the crown. It all depends on how tall the crown is. I wouldn't be surprised if they did make it a tiny bit taller than US Bank. Why build so tall, and fall a few feet short of a landmark height? Also, months ago it was mentioned that the US Bank model was much too short, if you compare it to Chase, it's barely 300 feet tall.

[HX_Guy]

32 stories completed, concrete was being poured for the floor of the 33rd and final level.

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownJuly3rd07/19.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownJuly3rd07/5.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownJuly3rd07/6.jpg

[PHX NATIVE 929]

Thanks for the photos. Outstanding!

[PHX602]

As long as they don't eff up the crown this is easily our trophy tower. I don't care if it isn't the tallest, that is one beautiful building.

[DracoCaifan]

That second photo looks great!! Thanks for the updates....

[HX_Guy]

Looks like it's topped off now as far as the mechanical penthouse goes. All that would be left is a crown, if there is one.

The first shot shows the elevator core up to floor #34, then a day later with the mech. penthouse.
http://www.nitnelav.com/camera1.jpghttp://www.nitnelav.com/camera1-1.jpg

[PHX31]

Are you sure? I thought they were now working on the final floor, then there is the mech penthouse and then the crown.

[HX_Guy]

I'm sure.

The first picture, dated July 5th, had the elevator core up to floor #34...it's hard to see, but it was. They still need to put in the forms and pour concrete for the ceiling of the 34th floor, but the elevator core was already done.

As of the 6th, they extended the elevator core up to the mechanical penthouse, which you can see pretty easily in the picture. Now there might actually be additional walls that go with this penthouse, not sure how it goes, but height wise, that's it...aside from the crown.

[Upward]

Lookin' good! :tup:

[HX_Guy]

As long as they don't eff up the crown

I'm starting to wonder if there will even be a crown...


If you take a look at the two renderings we've seen and the way the buildiing is shaping up, it more resembles the none crown version. The part I'm focusing on is the "fins" on the front of the building. I assume these should be built into the structure and they would be pretty apparent at this stage, but they don't seem to be there. Could they be something that will be attached to the building later on? I figured they would be part of the concrete work.

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/5938/towerlarge23yo.jpghttp://condodomain.com/files/developments/1141/no2NEW.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownJune262007/10.jpg

I guess we'll have to see how it ends up. Theres still hope since they are advertising the tower with the crown.

[kaneui]

^This may not fully answer your question, but here are more details on the building's construction:


Great Heights
44 Monroe Rises Above Phoenix

Southwest Contractor
By Scott Blair
July, 2007

The 34-story residential tower 44 Monroe rises above Phoenix streets teeming with construction activity. Upon completion, it will be the tallest residential property and the third tallest building in Phoenix. While Phoenix had made recent strides in developing its downtown core by bringing in sports facilities, convention centers and schools, it has lacked what many observers felt was essential in forming a vibrant urban community: multistory residential.

The $75.6 million 44 Monroe tower will go a long way toward changing that. Named for its address at First Avenue and Monroe Street, the 34-story building will add 532,000 sq ft of residential space to downtown Phoenix. Upon completion in spring 2008, 44 Monroe will become the tallest residential building in Arizona. "The turnaround that's going on in Phoenix depends largely on people actually staying here on nights and weekends," says Rick Fria, president of the Fria Co., a Carefree, Ariz.-based project management firm representing Grace Communities, the project's Scottsdale-based developer.

A long-vacant 11-story office building stood at the small, quarter-block-sized site. The developer had planned to turn this existing structure into roughly 60 condominiums, but in order to maximize the site's potential, the new 202-unit tower was chosen, Fria says. Demolition began in late 2005 and after the building was totally removed, work on the foundation of 44 Monroe began in February 2006. The foundation system consists of 52 caissons ranging from 5 to 8 ft in diameter and 55 to 80 ft deep; grade beams; and an 85-ft-long, 64-ft-wide by 12-ft-deep concrete core foundation mat, says Andrew Klem, project engineer with the Phoenix office of the Weitz Co., the project's general contractor. The caissons support the building above through friction with the surrounding soil because bedrock was too deep.

"There are nine caissons located under the north basement wall, which is actually a transfer beam/girder, as the columns above are offset from the caissons below," Klem says. "The remainder of the caissons directly support columns or the foundation walls, and in some places both." One level of parking is below-grade, while additional parking will take up the second through seventh floors of the structure.

Rudy Erdmann, senior project manager with Weitz, says that the most complicated part of the project has been the parking levels. "There was so much steel [rebar] congestion, especially in the heavier columns and slabs," he adds. "The structural engineer, [Phoenix-based] PK Associates, was onsite virtually full-time directing traffic and answering questions."

Phoenix-based subcontractor Suntec Concrete used 6,000 psi concrete for the floors and 10,000 psi for the columns. "With the help of Wietz and Suntec, we developed a cost-effective concrete tower structural system comprised of an 8-in.-thick post-tensioned flat plate supported on 26-in.-square concrete columns," says Cliff Paul, principal of PK Associates.

After starting out at a floor every 12 days, crews found their rhythm and have been recently pouring a floor every week, Erdmann says. The final floor was poured early this month. "We need 34 concrete trucks per floor, and they cue all the way around the block," he says. The trucks unload two at a time into the concrete pump, which lifts it with the aid of an auxiliary pump located on the floor that is being poured. A swing-arm spout takes the concrete to its final destination.

"It's a slick, organized system that has worked well," Erdmann adds. The condominium units range from 780 to 4,800 sq ft and range in price from $400,000 to $3.2 million penthouses. The variety of sizes required four different floor plates throughout the tower, each requiring adjustments in the concrete forms. Suntec devised a forming system specifically for the project, Erdmann says. "Instead of taking separate forms, erecting them, tying them together and then pouring concrete, they did an entire wall system of forms so that the entire wall could move," he adds. "You could put your rebar in, put the forms back and then pour the concrete, all in one step, saving three days per floor."

The tight urban site adjacent to major light-rail construction prevented all but a miniscule area for staging. "The key to staying on schedule on a job like this is managing the vertical transportation, which includes the crane and the man and material hoists," Fria says. "Material has to come on an as-needed basis and it has to go right up on the crane to where it's going to be used. Weitz has done a good job of managing that."

The building's design initially included five metal fins that started at the base and then continued up to the top and arched over the top of the building, says Sharon Rissling, project manager with San Diego-based Tucker Sadler Architects, who were brought in to complete the job after the original architect dropped off the project. "We subsequently had to cut back some of that due to the high cost of product in the steel especially," she says. The fins will now be formed with metallic paint rather than metal to provide the building's iconic look.

It was important to bring a well-tested and proven exterior skin system in order to prevent water and acoustical intrusion into the residences, Fria says. "These two elements are usually where class-action litigation in condos comes from, but it doesn't have to be that way," he says. Glazing contractor Walters & Wolf's Phoenix office installed a system designed by Concord, Ontario-based manufacturer Toro Aluminum. "In our engineering and specifications we incorporate the requirement to do field tests once it was installed on site," Fria says. During the test, 12 lbs of negative pressure are applied to test portions of glass in specially sealed areas. "On the outside we sprayed the entire one-story glass segment with water and with that kind of negative pressure on the backside, if there was a leak it would show up, guaranteed," Fria adds. The first two of five tests were recently completed with no leaks detected.

http://southwest.construction.com/features/archive/0707_feature3.asp

[HX_Guy]

Well that's a shame, painted on striped won't have nearly the same effect as the metal fins would have. Also, it still doesn't say what will happen with the crown on top of the building.

[PHX_PD]

All 33 floors are now basically complete. The only thing left is to pour the concrete for the roof, the mechanical penthouse, and then the crown (if there is one).

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb56/Phoenixguy/Monroe.jpg

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb56/Phoenixguy/Monroe2.jpg

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb56/Phoenixguy/Monroe3.jpg

[DevdogAZ]

Well that's a shame, painted on striped won't have nearly the same effect as the metal fins would have. Also, it still doesn't say what will happen with the crown on top of the building.

I take that quote to mean that the fins (crown) will still be there, they just won't be made of steel.

[HX_Guy]

.

[HX_Guy]

I looked over the vertical plats, which I assume are to scale since they seem to be, and it matches the model of the building inside the sales office and it appears the final height will be 381'. It's a shame that it won't beat out US Bank but it's still a great addition to the skyline and gives us a great idea of how Central Park East will look at a very similar 383'.

http://www.nitnelav.com/Monroe44height.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/44Topped2.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/44Topped1.jpg

[Don B.]

^ Interesting. Good find.

I note that the ultimate height could be construed as a 36 story building.

--don

[HX_Guy]

Well, it looks like my estimate was very close to the actual height...

"The 34-story 44 Monroe condo tower will reach its full height – 378 feet – later this month, a spokeswoman for The Weitz Company said.

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/jahnaberry/3699

[escodu05]

As a former Phoenician and current Denver resident, its interesting that a building (as short as 44 Monroe) can make such a significant diference on the skyline. It is essentially the same height as One Lincoln Park, which will only be a blip (albeit a very crucial one in extending downtown north into Arapahoe Square), and nearly 100' less than the Spire. Not criticism, though.

[PHX31]

/\ It's not really interesting... it's pretty cool. But, yeah, here's hoping to many more towers that fill in rather than create...

[PHX31]

All 33 floors are now basically complete. The only thing left is to pour the concrete for the roof, the mechanical penthouse, and then the crown (if there is one).

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb56/Phoenixguy/Monroe.jpg



PHX_PD... I just noticed this picture. It is a really cool perspective and an all around great photo. I like the many different buildings in the picture (historic and modern), and I like how the palms kind of frame the buildings in the pic... :tup:

[CANUC]

Did anyone notice that in the article that HX Guy linked to, that the reporter stated that there would be an invitation only "topping out" party on August 3rd? That means that in two weeks they will celebrate the 'topping out' of the building. My question; does that mean the the crown has been nixed? I don't see how they could possibly build the crown in two weeks. If they still plan on adding the crown why would they have a topping out party before it is truly topped out?

[HX_Guy]

Summit at Copper Square had a topping out party before the "crown" on that building was built, so it's very possible here as well.

But also, I could see them having the crown up by then as well. If they can built two whole floors in two weeks, I don't see why they can't built 5 simple fins on top. Maybe they are even put together elsewhere and will just be mounted on top.

Either way, at 378', it has to have something else on top...the 34th floor's ceiling rises to only 356'.

[ljbuild]

44 monroe is AWFULLY SHORT to be 34 stories. Just look in the above photo and look at the white (us bank)highrise to the right (south) which is only 31 stories. But yet 44 monroe is shorter, UNLESS they still have a level or two to go. But since they are have a "topping out" party a couple of weeks from now, that tells me that they are done "RISING". Now maybe adding the crown will bring it even with the us bank tower.

OTHERWISE whenever CITYSCAPE ever starts, that will be something to really gaze at since a couple of thier buildings are supposed to be between 40 and 44 stories.

[HX_Guy]

44 Monroe will not be even with US Bank. US Bank is 407' and 44 Monroe will be 378'.

[HX_Guy]

44 Monroe peering above the historic buildings of downtown.
This will be a great shot once the building has all of it's glass and the crown is built, a great mix of old and new.

http://www.nitnelav.com/DowntownJuly262007/2.jpg

[PhxSprawler]

44 monroe is AWFULLY SHORT to be 34 stories. Just look in the above photo and look at the white (us bank)highrise to the right (south) which is only 31 stories. But yet 44 monroe is shorter, UNLESS they still have a level or two to go.

Office buildings generally require higher floors to accommodate the technology and wiring between floors. Urban condos generally don't have the ugly ceiling panels and fluorescent lighting installed on every floor.

[HX_Guy]

Great picture from 44 Monroe's website taken July 16th.

http://www.44monroe.com/images/071607_002.jpg

[ArtDecoFan]

Have any members noticed while this page was down that 44 Monroe has begun erecting the crown?

I woke up Friday morning, looked out my window at 44 Monroe, and I was pleasantly surprised to see the crown going into place! It was great to watch. So far, only the skeleton of the middle fin is up.

[ArtDecoFan]

I believe this is a new rendering on the 44 Monroe homepage...

I don't recall the American Flag in the prior rendering and the crown looks scaled down.

http://44monroe.com/images/tower_large3.jpg

[HX_Guy]

Yes, I noticed it today and I think it looks horrible. I understand it's not completed but by the skeleton, it looks like a half asses job. From the front of the building, there probably won't be much difference from the old design to the new, but from the side (driving down the I-10) it basically looks like a triangle stuck on the edge of the building. It does not span the whole width of the building as before and it does not add any height at all. The "crown" is the same height as the mechanical tower. It also looks like they removed the shade structure from the pool area on the 8th floor.

Either way, here is the new rendering from 44 Monroe's website. I really hope they leave the flag off, it looks tacky.

New............................................ Old
http://www.44monroe.com/images/tower_large3.jpghttp://www.44monroe.com/images/tower_large2.jpg

[andrewkfromaz]

Anybody got more recent pics?

I think the wimpy "crown," while disappointing from a skyline perspective, will still add a feeling of height and detail from ground level that wouldn't be there if the roof was flat. I think the flag might be a nice touch, though. It kind of hearkens back to a simpler era, in my mind.

[HooverDam]

^Yep the fins do look smaller and the American flag looks kinda goofy in my opinion.

[HX_Guy]

Anybody got more recent pics?

I'll be by tomorrow and will snaps some shots.

[PHX_PD]

Ughhhh. I am extremely disappointed about the new crown. They turned what could have been a magnificent finishing touch into a retarded looking (albeit shiny) piece of shit. I think the flag looks stupid too; the one on Chase Tower is enough for downtown.

[KEVINphx]

Anybody got more recent pics?

I think the wimpy "crown," while disappointing from a skyline perspective, will still add a feeling of height and detail from ground level that wouldn't be there if the roof was flat. I think the flag might be a nice touch, though. It kind of hearkens back to a simpler era, in my mind.


if you ask me, it harkens back to an era of post-911 american jingoism.

just my $0.02:yuck:

[andrewkfromaz]

I was thinking the late '20s, a la King Kong and the Empire State Building.
My guess is an intern was bored and detailed the renders out a little more (note clear glass for the penthouse balconies) and someone higher up decided he liked the little changes.

[Upward]

Interesting point about the upper balconies. The crown isn't that much lower in that rendering, but the bigger difference is that the older one doesn't show the mechanical penthouse under it.

And yes, the flag looks stupid.

[vertex]

I was thinking the late '20s, a la King Kong and the Empire State Building.
My guess is an intern was bored and detailed the renders out a little more (note clear glass for the penthouse balconies) and someone higher up decided he liked the little changes.

Sooo, what makes you think it's an intern handling the rendering? :sly:

[HX_Guy]

Here's a photoshop job on my take of what the crown will look like. This is combining the new rendering with the skeleton outline of the crown I saw today.

Old.........................................................................................................................................New
http://nitnelav.com/MonroeCrown.jpghttp://nitnelav.com/MonroeCrown2.jpg

The elevator core was hidden by the fins before but now sticks out.

[vertex]

Talk about a building suffering from male pattern baldness...

[Vicelord John]

wow they ruined it. Sorry to that guy who predicted this and I called him a douche.

[jvbahn]

Lame. Ugh. Just make a giant cardboard cutout and paint it silver, if cost is the issue, but don't ruin the main cool aspect of the tower.....

[PHX NATIVE 929]

if you ask me, it harkens back to an era of post-911 american jingoism.

just my $0.02:yuck:


Jingosim? Whoa, whoa, whoa, WHOA! Hold on a minute. I want to make sure I've got this straight.... Are you being critical of Americans desire to display patriotism by flying flags after terrorists attacked our country, killing thousands?!?! Really??? This was bad... HOW?!?!

It's disheartening to me that nobody has questioned this clown's post until now. Have we become this P.C.??? People like KEVINphx have got our country thinking backwards. When you speak of "post-911 american jingoism", you walk a fine line between freedom of speech and treason.

[KEVINphx]

Jingosim? Whoa, whoa, whoa, WHOA! Hold on a minute. I want to make sure I've got this straight.... Are you being critical of Americans desire to display patriotism by flying flags after terrorists attacked our country, killing thousands?!?! Really??? This was bad... HOW?!?!

It's disheartening to me that nobody has questioned this clown's post until now. Have we become this P.C.??? People like KEVINphx have got our country thinking backwards. When you speak of "post-911 american jingoism", you walk a fine line between freedom of speech and treason.


oh god, please don't refer to me in the third person, if you have a problem with my opinion ADDRESS ME lol

and give me a fucking break, you are incapable of clear thought if you think that its treasonous to have an opinion different than yours! lol pathetic.

bottom line, IN MY OPINION, the flag is cheap and tacky looking on a luxury residential building and a pathetic replacement for a true crown on this building! By referring to this as jingoistic, well that too is my opinion as I don't recall seeing so many flags till after 9-11 and I DO think that is a bad thing, that only then after the propagandizing of the events of that day have Americans displayed the flag like they do now (less than in the couple years AFTER 2001)

and how idiots like you somehow draw that a born and raised citizen is somehow a traitor by simply saying, ON AN INTERNET FORUM NO LESS, the fucking flag is tacky and jingoistic!

ITS MY OPINION. :tup:

[PHX NATIVE 929]

oh god, please don't refer to me in the third person, if you have a problem with my opinion ADDRESS ME lol

and give me a fucking break, you are incapable of clear thought if you think that its treasonous to have an opinion different than yours! lol pathetic.

bottom line, IN MY OPINION, the flag is cheap and tacky looking on a luxury residential building and a pathetic replacement for a true crown on this building! By referring to this as jingoistic, well that too is my opinion as I don't recall seeing so many flags till after 9-11 and I DO think that is a bad thing, that only then after the propagandizing of the events of that day have Americans displayed the flag like they do now (less than in the couple years AFTER 2001)

and how idiots like you somehow draw that a born and raised citizen is somehow a traitor by simply saying, ON AN INTERNET FORUM NO LESS, the fucking flag is tacky and jingoistic!

ITS MY OPINION. :tup:

KEVINphx,

I'm speaking directly to you. Your latest words: "the fucking flag is tacky and jingoistic" speak for themselves. You have no class. You have no respect. You have a depraved mind. You should be ashamed of yourself for downplaying what happened on 9/11. OF COURSE Americans started showing more patriotism after the horrific events of that day. You are an ungrateful twat that should be shipped out of this country.

P.S. Try using the word "fucking" a few more times. Man, it makes you sound tough.

[andrewkfromaz]

:previous: Ever heard of freedom of speech? It's patriotic! "shipping people out of the county" for saying something, NOT PATRIOTIC. Please consider what you're saying.

[PHX NATIVE 929]

:previous: Ever heard of freedom of speech? It's patriotic! "shipping people out of the county" for saying something, NOT PATRIOTIC. Please consider what you're saying.

Don't defend this trash! You have to be kidding me. Is nothing just blatantly wrong anymore?!?! As I said, he's walking a fine line with his right to freedom of speech. You two will clearly never understand the sacrifices that have allowed you to live such spoiled lives in this country. Get some history and get a clue.

[andrewkfromaz]

I listen to Sean Hannity, FFS! Don't talk to me about sacrifices!
I'm just kidding. Actually, I don't think he was talking about patriotism or flying flags in general until you provoked him in your first post. His point was about the bandwagon that every American jumped on right after 9/11, kind of a pointless, short-lived sense of guilt/sorrow that many, if not most, people quickly forgot. Flying flags and wearing pins is great, don't get me wrong, and it's important to show a sense of respect for tradition and history, but what about volunteering at a VA hospital, or even voting? Aren't there any deeper displays that we can make to show that we aren't just putting up a facade?
I think no real American honestly discounts the sacrifices that people have made and are making in service of our country. Kevin's point was that it seems cheap to "honor" that sacrifice by flying a flag. What about ensuring that the tower is built using American materials, by US citizens? What about making a real, genuine statement that really shows that the tower honors our United States of America? My guess is that the attempt at patriotism that the architect showed by tacking a flag on the top of the building doesn't run that deep. I may be wrong.
I don't think it's fair to attack someone so viciously because he doesn't agree with you. Lighten up a bit. Being unpatriotic (on today of all days, don't think we don't see the irony) may be wrong, but there are things that are more wrong. The way I see it, he wasn't even being unpatriotic. One statement you made is right on. "You two will clearly never understand the sacrifices that have allowed you to live such spoiled lives in this country."
I don't think any of us can understand, unless we're making these sacrifices ourselves.

[sundevilgrad]

Damn, and I was hoping that someone posted some pics of the infamous fin...

[PhxSprawler]

The flag is losing its patriotic symbolism and becoming a political symbol. Case in point: The faded "These colors never fade" bumper stickers pasted next to the "W 04" stickers on the back of every gold caddy going 25 on 7th ave, and every lifted 4x4 with "boot up your ass" mud flaps.

Maybe it would be more appropriate on 44 Monroe if it had a peace sign on it.

On a less serious note, does the flag pole count as part of the height? Is it integrated into the structure?

[andrewkfromaz]

I think it's "these colors never run" and I took the "W 04" sticker off my caddy when I put my John Kyl 06 sticker on there. ;)

[NorthScottsdale]

phoenix native 929, i agree with you 100%. flying an american flag is never tacky, and is not some "false facade". by flying an american flag it shows that you show some respect for your country.

the fact that more people flew flags after 9/11 just reinforces the point that many people in this country had been under a sense of invincibility, and 9/11 woke them up and realized that we are not immune to evil in the world.

i find it funny how people justify their blatant dislike of this country by calling it "free speech". your right, you do have free speech. we have it easy here in america. try moving to mexico and try practicing free speech here. you could be killed. many have died so that we can still fly that flag today, and its pretty fucked up to call it a cheap ugly rag that people use as a facade.

this conversation should have never come up in the first place. when i saw the flag in the picture i thought it was kind of cool. the only thing i was dissapointed about was the fins. it would be better if they put up the old crown and a huge flag on top of that :)

/end rant

[Vicelord John]

I think the flag looks tacky.

Maybe it'd be cool if they flew a Korean flag, or an Iraqui flag.

[KEVINphx]

KEVINphx,

I'm speaking directly to you. Your latest words: "the fucking flag is tacky and jingoistic" speak for themselves. You have no class. You have no respect. You have a depraved mind. You should be ashamed of yourself for downplaying what happened on 9/11. OF COURSE Americans started showing more patriotism after the horrific events of that day. You are an ungrateful twat that should be shipped out of this country.

P.S. Try using the word "fucking" a few more times. Man, it makes you sound tough.

I did NOT downplay ANYTHING that happened on 9-11-01, dont put words in my mouth. Andrew seems to have understood my point exactly, it baffles me how you are too thick-skulled to do the same. Poor comprehension on your behalf, perhaps. If that day made American's so damn patriotic then why has is wavered? We see a lot less flag flying today than soon-after 2001. The people were propagandized by what happened that day, and that is that! It was those who used it as propaganda that cheapened what happened that day if you ask me!

I also take great offense that you presume to know the first thing about me, calling me ungrateful! If you don't like people not agreeing with your beliefs, then why the hell don't YOU SHIP YOUR OWN ASS out of this nation, because its going to be a cold day in hell when there aren't people like me who disagree with people like you! GROW UP!

PS. I did not use the word FUCK to be "tough", rather, I used it because YOU annoyed me and YOU were a prick to call me a "clown" and "trash" because I believe it is YOU who looked a "clown" acting out in disgust over a difference in opinion.

I am a patriotic citizen of the US who respects the flag, VOTES, gets involved in my community and gives good representation of this nation when I travel abroad (something I highly doubt your my-way-or-the-highway attitude is capable of)

[KEVINphx]

phoenix native 929, i agree with you 100%. flying an american flag is never tacky, and is not some "false facade". by flying an american flag it shows that you show some respect for your country.

the fact that more people flew flags after 9/11 just reinforces the point that many people in this country had been under a sense of invincibility, and 9/11 woke them up and realized that we are not immune to evil in the world.

i find it funny how people justify their blatant dislike of this country by calling it "free speech". your right, you do have free speech. we have it easy here in america. try moving to mexico and try practicing free speech here. you could be killed. many have died so that we can still fly that flag today, and its pretty fucked up to call it a cheap ugly rag that people use as a facade.

this conversation should have never come up in the first place. when i saw the flag in the picture i thought it was kind of cool. the only thing i was dissapointed about was the fins. it would be better if they put up the old crown and a huge flag on top of that :)

/end rant

Did anyone here display "blatant dislike" for this nation? I believe I would not be living here if I did! Neither did I or anyone else refer to the US flag as a "cheap rag", I said it look cheap on that building!

AS IN A CHEAP ALTERNATIVE TO THE FINS, which we all know it is, thats why we got this instead. A flag pole is cheaper than the stainless steel, it has NOTHING to do with the developers "patriotism"

This is all beside the fact that my original comment was a bit of sarcasm, as jingoism is an EXTREME form of patriotism and last I read, I said nothing bad about patriotic Americans! You both need to rub up on your reading and comprehension skills and back of the art of putting words in my mouth.

I have been a member on this forum for a very long time, but rarely post, I enjoy all the information and photos on the entire forum. I am also a very opinionated person just like the rest of you, but I guess I have to re-think posting at all because of the harassment of simple-minded people who don't agree with my opinion on something as simple as a flag pole on a damn building in Phoenix! How all that can be construed to me being an "unpatriotic, ungrateful, DEPRAVED (lol), need-to-be-deported treasonous twat" ! ! !

to hell with you PHX Native!

[jvbahn]

Watch it guys, the spooks of the SSP forum are watching, thanks to whatever a-hole ratted our party out.

The flag was I think intended as a "we're too cheap to build a real architectural feature, let's take the easy way out and stick a flag. No American can argue with a flag......"

To inject a bit of humor towards this, maybe they should just build the "Freedom Tower" in PHX.

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/al_qaeda_also_fed_up_with_ground

[PHX NATIVE 929]

I did NOT downplay ANYTHING that happened on 9-11-01, dont put words in my mouth. Andrew seems to have understood my point exactly, it baffles me how you are too thick-skulled to do the same. Poor comprehension on your behalf, perhaps. If that day made American's so damn patriotic then why has is wavered? We see a lot less flag flying today than soon-after 2001. The people were propagandized by what happened that day, and that is that! It was those who used it as propaganda that cheapened what happened that day if you ask me!

I also take great offense that you presume to know the first thing about me, calling me ungrateful! If you don't like people not agreeing with your beliefs, then why the hell don't YOU SHIP YOUR OWN ASS out of this nation, because its going to be a cold day in hell when there aren't people like me who disagree with people like you! GROW UP!

PS. I did not use the word FUCK to be "tough", rather, I used it because YOU annoyed me and YOU were a prick to call me a "clown" and "trash" because I believe it is YOU who looked a "clown" acting out in disgust over a difference in opinion.

I am a patriotic citizen of the US who respects the flag, VOTES, gets involved in my community and gives good representation of this nation when I travel abroad (something I highly doubt your my-way-or-the-highway attitude is capable of)

I've never twisted your words. You said the "fucking flag is tacky" and that it "harkens back to an era of post 9-11 jingoism." Simple as that. This has nothing to do with the 44 Monroe Building. I want the large crown as much as anyone here. It does not matter to me if there is a flag on the building. It DOES matter to me that people show respect when they talk about the flag or September 11th and you failed on both counts. If you are the first-rate American you claim to be, perhaps you should be more careful with the words you decide to use in the future.

[Upward]

Alright guys, don't get this thread locked.

[HX_Guy]

Pictures of the crown...

http://www.nitnelav.com/DTSept12/1.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/DTSept12/7.jpg

The glass for the parking garage looks very good I think.

http://www.nitnelav.com/DTSept12/2.jpg

http://www.nitnelav.com/DTSept12/6.jpg

[PHX_PD]

Thanks for the pics Hx_Guy. Overall 44 Monroe still has to be among the nicest if not the nicest tower on our skyline. It's just too bad that it didn't reach its full potential.

[SunDevil]

KENINphx didn't you know it's unamerican to challenge or question authority? Run along and let the politicians and the CEO's take care of everything.

My radicalism aside, I'm not sure when the flag went from being a symbol of our nation to being sacred, but it has. People invest their will (souls?) into object like wedding rings and houses all the time. It seems to be no different than doing it with a flag. So, just as they will be offended if you claim their ring or house to be tacky they will take offense to claiming that the flag is tacky.

Live and learn.

[KEVINphx]

KENINphx didn't you know it's unamerican to challenge or question authority? Run along and let the politicians and the CEO's take care of everything.

My radicalism aside, I'm not sure when the flag went from being a symbol of our nation to being sacred, but it has. People invest their will (souls?) into object like wedding rings and houses all the time. It seems to be no different than doing it with a flag. So, just as they will be offended if you claim their ring or house to be tacky they will take offense to claiming that the flag is tacky.

Live and learn.


LOL. I get that, and it's not like I think the flag is tacky in all places at all times. It was all totally taken out of context, I think it was pretty clear that I was expressing disappointment that there is going to be a small flag pole instead of a real crown, and that I believe THAT is a tacky thing. oh well, whatever, I'm definitely not here to please anybody lol

[combusean]

Oh wow--the glass for the parking podium looks infinitely better than the mesh that was in previous renderings. Anything to make a parking structure not look like a parking structure is something I'm all for.

[HX_Guy]

It was always glass in the renderings and there will still be mesh in between the glass. Maybe it wasn't obvious in the renderings that some of the parking garage had glass on it?

http://www.44monroe.com/images/tower_large2.jpg

[combusean]

Now that I look a little closer on the 1st Ave frontage I can see that there's glass where it's being installed, and probably the mesh would go in on the corners of the podium. Still, in the rendering, the glass for the podium doesn't look as brilliant as the rest of the project even tho they are being built the same.

Somewhat pleasant surprise after they screwed the crown. I would almost take the small dome thing in the oldest rendering over the mediocrity of what's going up now.