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-   -   PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=196266)

markson33 May 23, 2012 10:40 PM

It's all just personal preference. I would disagree that parks are dead zones. I love the park at PNC Three and the PPG courtyard, while somewhat sterile, is heavily used and not dead in the slightest. The canyon created by the Frank & Seder building and Kaufmans seems dark and dingy to me.

NYC2ATX May 24, 2012 3:46 AM

Market Square is already a great space I can see, but consider it...between the already-complete Three PNC Plaza, the new PNC tower, the new development on the south side of Forbes which is a stone's throw away, and now this potential 30-story building directly behind (from the square) PNC's future tower..... the eastern backdrop of Market Square will be unrecognizable in the best way. :cheers:

Austinlee May 24, 2012 6:04 AM

Nobody likes the infamous 1980s "wind swept plazas". There's not too many in Pittsburgh though. New York has a shit load of them.

BrianTH May 24, 2012 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markson33 (Post 5710783)
It's all just personal preference.

Not exactly. There is a science to designing streetscapes to the extent you can observe how people typically interactive with their environment. Of course individuals will vary, but there is enough commonality to support some general principles of good design.

Quote:

I would disagree that parks are dead zones.
As I noted above, open spaces don't HAVE to be dead zones. But plazas in front of office towers often are, because they are serving certain purposes for the owner of the office tower that are inconsistent with good public space design.

Interestingly, I would agree the triangle park outside Three PNC is a nice open space, but of course it has been designed like a separate parcel and not as an entryway to Three PNC:

http://www.wgpaver.com/files/Image/b...acre-greer.JPG

Conversely, the plaza outside One PNC is horrible, and a great example of how these often subtract from the local streetscape:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...adquarters.jpg

If you could assure me we would be getting a cool, well-designed pocket park along Smithfield, and not a horrible entry plaza, then it could be an idea worth exploring. The problem is that even today, when the principles of good streetscape design are well known, the odds are against you.

Quote:

The canyon created by the Frank & Seder building and Kaufmans seems dark and dingy to me.
So one helpful framing device for urban streetscape design is that being on the sidewalk should feel like being in a nice room. I think to the extent you feel it is "dark and dingy" there, it is in part because right now the Frank & Seder building is not in particularly good condition, and the street level in particular is not very nice. But when you put some effort into the storefronts, street lighting, sidewalk, and such, with that basic configuration you can get well-loved streets, in the same way that you can start with a plain room and then decorate and light it for a pleasing effect.

BrianTH May 24, 2012 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StatenIslander237 (Post 5711122)
the eastern backdrop of Market Square will be unrecognizable in the best way. :cheers:

Indeed. Market Square is going to feel much more like a clearing in a forest, which will be cool.

glowrock May 24, 2012 11:55 AM

No doubt, I eagerly await the announcement to come later on this afternoon about the tower proposal! In general though, I couldn't be happier with the continued improvement I've seen in downtown, even in the measly one year I've been in Pittsburgh! :yes:

Aaron (Glowrock)

Private Dick May 24, 2012 1:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianTH (Post 5711304)
...



So one helpful framing device for urban streetscape design is that being on the sidewalk should feel like being in a nice room. I think to the extent you feel it is "dark and dingy" there, it is in part because right now the Frank & Seder building is not in particularly good condition, and the street level in particular is not very nice. But when you put some effort into the storefronts, street lighting, sidewalk, and such, with that basic configuration you can get well-loved streets, in the same way that you can start with a plain room and then decorate and light it for a pleasing effect.

Thanks for the great analysis overall on the office tower plazas, BrianTH.

And yeah, the streetscape around the Frank & Seder Bldg feels dark and dingy right now because the Frank & Seder Bldg. is dark and dingy -- its filthy. Also, the Lord & Taylor (old Mellon Bank Bldg.) across the intersection still sits vacant and the Park Bldg. across Fifth is also dirty, was altered beyond repair, and its use is very low quality. Maybe we should tear those down too? Get rid of that old stuff altogether... and when Macy's finally pulls completely out of downtown, we can raze that sucker too.

The Mellon Bank/L&T building is nothing unique at all -- pretty much the standard 4 story granite bank building from the 1920s that you can pretty much see in just about any older major city. And the 1896 Park Building -- well, it was "renovated" in the 1960s Retardation Style, thus destroying its architectural value... so no loss there. The sculptures at the top are cool, but you can't really see them from the street anyway. Maybe they could be incorporated into a nice plaza across the street from a new 30-story "skyscraper"!

raynist May 24, 2012 6:00 PM

from the trib's website, all I could find so far:

http://triblive.com/news/1856369-74/...r-350-downtown

glowrock May 24, 2012 6:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raynist (Post 5711718)
from the trib's website, all I could find so far:

http://triblive.com/news/1856369-74/...r-350-downtown

Thanks for the link, raynist. I've been waiting to read something new all day. Too bad this is nothing too interesting, though it does confirm their interest in a 33 story tower. Here's to hoping that Shell or Chevron decides to go downtown!

Aaron (Glowrock)

chiaroscuro May 24, 2012 6:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowrock (Post 5711744)
Thanks for the link, raynist. I've been waiting to read something new all day. Too bad this is nothing too interesting, though it does confirm their interest in a 33 story tower. Here's to hoping that Shell or Chevron decides to go downtown!

Aaron (Glowrock)

Anyone else find it an odd coincidence that they announced it would be 33 floors?

themaguffin May 24, 2012 6:20 PM

Quote:

Anyone else find it an odd coincidence that they announced it would be 33 floors?
Why? I don't follow...?

chiaroscuro May 24, 2012 6:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themaguffin (Post 5711753)
Why? I don't follow...?

Isn't that the exact number of floors going into the Tower at PNC Plaza?

BrianTH May 24, 2012 6:23 PM

Quote:

"The project will be selected and active development started by the last quarter of 2012. That's a firm commitment today."
Depending on what they mean by "active development", that seems like news to me (since we are already well into the second quarter of 2012).

ShooFlyPie May 24, 2012 6:43 PM

"Active Development" = Schematic phase of design; very preliminary budget, decide if they 1) want to build a whole new tower, or 2) renovate an existing building, find a tenant, come up with conceptual drawings. This is proposed for the fourth quarter of this year.

chiaroscuro May 24, 2012 6:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raynist (Post 5711718)
from the trib's website, all I could find so far:

http://triblive.com/news/1856369-74/...r-350-downtown

Rendering added.

glowrock May 24, 2012 6:49 PM

Yeah, and it's a heck of an ugly rendering! :yes: I hope this is more of a massing model than an actual proposal!

Aaron (Glowrock)

AaronPGH May 24, 2012 6:53 PM

Gross.

markson33 May 24, 2012 6:56 PM

Ugh. What a dud. It does look pretty preliminary though, so I will give Oxford the benefit of the doubt.

If they are going fishing for a tenant, this isn't very good bait.

chiaroscuro May 24, 2012 6:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronPGH (Post 5711811)
Gross.

It's decided then. Renovated 6 story building!

ShooFlyPie May 24, 2012 7:00 PM

Some intern was told this morning, "quick, put something together in sketchup for today's announcement."


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