Sacramento - New Arena Plan
 

I figured we should kill the DT Arena thread cause it's not going to happen.

Here is a little renewed hope. Let's see how this one goes

Tsakopoulos does seem like he is doing his damnest to get something done
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http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports...14541554c.html

Developer proposes another arena plan

Local developer Angelo K. Tsakopoulos has been working for months on a new proposal to finance an arena for the Kings by developing land he owns in rural eastern Sacramento County, say several people who have been involved in the talks.

In addition, Tsakopoulos has approached area Indian tribes, flush with casino profits, to ask for their help in financing a new Kings facility.

The idea is not to build an arena in eastern Sacramento County, an area of rolling grassland and oak trees, but to provide money to build an arena elsewhere, most likely North Natomas, the sources said.

Some local leaders said Tsakopoulos' latest plan would be more difficult to pull off than his previous arena financing proposal, which collapsed in February. Nonetheless, they said, the idea seems to be the most viable thing going at the moment.

Howard Dickstein, an attorney who represents several Indian tribes, said Tuesday his clients are interested in helping keep the Kings in Sacramento. Details of their participation have not been worked out.

We've been having discussions with the interested parties for a long time," said Dickstein, who represents the Rumsey Band of Wintun Indians, the United Auburn Indian Community and the Jackson Rancheria Band of Miwok Indians, all of whom operate casinos in the area.

"So far, nothing has come together," Dickstein added. "The interested parties appear to be Angelo, his company and the Sacramento Kings. I wish there were more interested parties, but there aren't."

The specifics of Tsakopoulos' latest proposal remain unknown. Steve Capps, spokesman for Tsakopoulos' AKT Development, said the developer would have no comment.

Kings co-owner Joe Maloof said he and his brother Gavin have been approached by "a couple of people who are in private business. Angelo's one of them. There are others.

"Angelo has been working very diligently on this, (but) if it doesn't work out with Angelo, it doesn't mean that the whole thing is in deep trouble. … We're still trying. Still trying," Joe Maloof said.

Tsakopoulos controls thousands of acres in eastern Sacramento County - south of Highway 50 and between Rancho Cordova and the El Dorado County line. Those briefed on his current proposal say the land he is seeking to develop lies outside the urban growth boundary in the county's general plan.

Much of this land recently was left as open space by the Sacramento Area Council of Governments when it crafted a long-term growth blueprint for the region.

Tsakopoulos also has discussed the possibility of including some of his western El Dorado County holdings in the deal, said those involved in the talks.

Some local leaders say they've told the developer that any proposal to open eastern Sacramento County to building would stir opposition from environmentalists and would face numerous logistical hurdles, including the lack of adequate roads, water and other infrastructure needed to serve new homes.

"It's outside the urban services boundary, there are huge infrastructure issues. … It's years away, at best," Sacramento County Supervisor Roger Dickinson said.

Mike McKeever, executive director of the Sacramento Area Council of Governments, said Tsakopoulos' previous arena proposal - although it failed - was more realistic.

It would have involved rezoning much of the remaining farmland in North Natomas. That land, unlike the east county, had been earmarked for eventual growth by the city and county.

The North Natomas proposal collapsed in February after several property owners, including the prominent Ose family, said they would not participate. As conceived by Tsakopoulos, the plan asked landowners to commit 20 percent of their profits from development to an arena.

McKeever said he had "some regrets" that the North Natomas proposal fell apart. He thinks it would take years to sort out the transportation, air quality and open space issues in the east county.

"I think Angelo has done the region a service by pursuing this, but I think this latest iteration is probably a 10 out of 10 in degree of difficulty, and maybe it's time to think of other ways that are not connected to land use to save the Kings," McKeever said.

The Kings owners have made it clear they're impatient for an arena deal. They haven't set a deadline, but they've repeatedly stressed that Arco is obsolete.

"We don't know what the timetable is," Maloof said Tuesday. "We've been at this for six years now, and (prior owner) Jim Thomas was at it for four years before us. Who knows what the timetable is? Something has to get done sooner or later, we all know that."

Some Kings fans, including the tribes represented by Dickstein, fear that the team will leave Sacramento if a state-of-the-art arena is not built. Sacramento's elected officials have been largely silent on the topic in recent months.

"The tribes, like a lot of residents in the area, are concerned that this could be the 11th hour and that the Kings will be forced to take other opportunities because of the lack of responsiveness from this community," Dickstein said.

I don't get excited about this stuff anymore. Starting to feel like Majin.

Re: Sacramento - New Arena Plan
 

I'm glad to hear the wheels are still turing on this behind the scenes.

I feel ya on that one. I think I need to see a headline that says "New Arena Deal Expected Within Days" before I start getting excited.

Public help will be needed... Sorry but this can't be done privately. City leaders were going to have a ballot, but forgot about it. Wusses.

Those Indian Casnios are filthy rich. I'm not sure what kind of deal they would want, but they def have the money to back it up.

I think he has a good point.

If Tsakopolous can pull a new arena out of his ass somehow, then he can have his Parthenon tower and all the monuments, statues, gargoyles or whatever else he intends to put on it.

Hey costa, what about putting slot machines in the same building as an arena? haha. Or call it Eagle Feathers Arena

My three vises in life: Kings Basketball, Gambling and Booze (No, I am not an alcoholic :cheers: ) all under one roof? Damn maybe they should build some condo's into the arena so I'd never have to leave. haha

Eagle Feathers Arena could be interesting. Sell it as a way to pay homage to their ancestors...seriously

I like that.

Eagle Feathers Arena.

In my opinion, the most logical spot for a new arena is the railyards. DT, freeway close, Amtrak station, future Greyhound station (maybe), RT buses, not too far from some existing eateries and drinkeries, ... an urban blank slate at this point.

:)

There is nobody to blame for lack of an Arena deal except for the people who live in the city and county of Sacramento. Repeatedly deals have surfaced that would have placed the taxes on visitors using our hotels rooms and rental car facilities and still the public here ins't behind the Arena. Some people have their heads in the Tule Fog and are in denial to the fact the the Maloofs would ever leave Sacramento (which is a false assumption). Others who don't believe Arco needs to be replaced (which is another lie). And still others that believe the Maloofs can build it themselves and could still put a winning team on the floor.

Here's my take.


This should go to the ballot with various tax increase proposals.

Rental cars, Hotel rooms, maybe even liquor. If the people of Sacramento vote it down then there will be nobody to blame but ourselves. It's time for people in this region to put up our shut up. If we can't get it done, I wont blame the Maloofs if they choose to move.

While I genuinely admire Tsakopoulos for trying, he has his own interests at stake. (That's o.k. by me). But what's not o.k. with me is the idea of opening up more open space to yet more sprawl. I wouldn't vote for this and I doubt many in Sacramento will. We need to be discouraging sprawl and providing real alternatives for people who want to return downtown.

I would hate to lose the Kings, but I don't think we would have to, if people in Sacramento would take the time and pull their heads out of their butts. A tax on rental cars, liquor, and hotel rooms will be born by visitors and those of us who like to have a drink now and again.


But to open up the "Northern Territories" north of Natomas or to open Eastern Sacramento County, would contradict what we're trying to do downtown.

one more thing.... I am a basketball fanatic. I love the Kings. But I do not believe for a second that Sacramento has to have a major league sport to validate itself or make it feel good about who it is.


Create a relaible, clean and expanded mass transit system (which we're doing), invest in schools, cultural amenities, the central city and this will still be a desirable destination for people and companies looking to relocate here.

We should try to keep the Kings, but there are better ways of doing it besides trading an Arena for more sprawl.

What is the arena the Connecticut WNBA team plays in? That one is an indian casino.

Yeah, I think it's part of the worlds largest casino that they have up there.

As for this plan, I kinda don't care anymore. Once I saw the best idea ever shot down (replacing 1/3 of DT Plaza with a new arena), it really turned me off to the whole thing.

As for opening up new land, SACOG already expects that land to be developed in the future, but this would obviously speed that up. *hint; if you wanna get really disgusted, drive down S. Sunrise to Grant Line. You'll wanna hurl, and then go after the County.*

Yup, looks like the name is Mohegan Sun Arena

Fuck it, at this point I dont care open up the sprawl land and let it pour in. As long as we get a new arena i'd sell my soul. Sacramento needs a major sports team or two to make ourselves feel better. Yes we need the kings to validate ourselves as a real city. If we lose the kings we might as well rename Sacramento to "Anytown, USA" and remove ourselves from all the maps and any news. We will be the most generic/suburban city in the USA.

Maybe Tsakopoulos can build an arena on top of a skyscraper.

Or even better, Saca can build an arena on top of a skyscraper that looks like a scale model of the Colisseum to honor his heritage. :nuts:

Why do the Maloofs need a 400 Million dollar arena again?

If Charlette can do it for 265, we should be able to do it for 300M tops. THen again, it took them 5 years

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2197837

Bobcats unveil $265M downtown Charlotte arena

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- After more than five years of political angst, Charlotte is ready to take the wrapper off a $265 million downtown arena that will be home to the NBA's Charlotte Bobcats.

And the officials who helped design the building believe they have a winner.

I think this building, not only from a budget standpoint but also from an aesthetic standpoint, is the best [arena] in the country," building chief operating officer Barry Silberman said Wednesday as the media toured the arena two blocks from the center of downtown Charlotte.

Mayor Pat McCrory and Bobcats owner Bob Johnson are to officially open Charlotte Bobcats Arena at a ribbon-cutting ceremony Thursday. The Rolling Stones headline the first arena event Friday, while the Bobcats open their home schedule Nov. 5 against the Boston Celtics.

The city acquired land and paid for construction of the building, which is being operated by the team.

The 19,000-seat arena replaces the suburban Charlotte Coliseum, which opened in 1988 for the NBA's Charlotte Hornets but was quickly made obsolete by a new generation of sports arenas outfitted with luxury suites and other upscale amenities. The Hornets moved to New Orleans in 2002, one year after voters rejected a proposal to use public money to pay for a downtown arena and other center-city projects.

When the city agreed to build the arena anyway, the NBA granted Charlotte another franchise, the Bobcats. The team played its first season last year at the Coliseum, averaging 14,432 fans.

The tepid response has been attributed in part to residual anger over the arena controversy. Published reports in recent weeks have said the team is struggling to sell tickets.

Bobcats officials won't discuss ticket sales, but have said they believe word of mouth will help fill the stands after the arena opens.

With a brick, glass and steel exterior, the building aims to evoke both Charlotte's roots in the industrial South and the present-day banking towers that dominate the city's skyline.

"We were not looking for an icon building, but for one that was beautiful, hopefully, and fit in with the city, " said architect Doug Brown of the Kansas City, Mo., firm of Ellerbe Becket.

Inside, allusions to Charlotte and the Carolinas are thick. A massive mural inside the building's main entrance plaza off Trade Street looks at the history of basketball in the Piedmont; artwork on the upper concourse surveys Charlotte's history from the 18th century to the present. The "Pit Stop BBQ" stand alludes to the region's ties to stock-car racing, while a "Flight Deck" food and beverage area pays homage to the Wright Brothers' first flight at Kitty Hawk.

Two levels of luxury suites ring the lower bowl of the arena. A fine-dining restaurant at the suite level along one baseline will allow patrons to eat dinner while they watch a game or a concert.

Gone are the glass windows that often front luxury suites, with the seats pushed onto terraces in front of the main suite space. The aim was to "make the suite fans part of the crowd," Ellerbe Becket architect Susan Fulton said.

The arena also has outdoor terrace with skyline views, and the upper concourse also has an elevated stage for musical performances and a play space for kids.

Bobcats players weren't forgotten, either. The team's practice court is part of the arena complex and the players-only area includes a theater with a 60-inch plasma screen, a lounge, a state-of-the-art hydrotherapy center and a soothingly lit locker room.

A dominant feature is the massive scoreboard. Four 16-by-28-foot LED video screens hang over center court, topped by a wraparound three-dimensional sculpture of the Charlotte skyline.

Actually I'm getting kind of tired of the Maloofs. If they want a new arena then they need to say what they want and by what date. Then they need to say what they're willing to pay. They need to ante up more than 20% since they will be controlling all concessions and naming rights. 20% is not a "fair share".

I agree completely.

I agree too.. And naming rights alone would almost pay for their share.

I think Tsakopoulos should buy the A's and focus his efforts on expanding Raley Field. I'm not much of a baseball fan, but I know that it would be great for the city, economically and marketably. And it would be good for the A's franchise as well.

I love Basketball and I love the Kings, but, I'm sick of the Maloofs and there "aw shucks" persona and dumb-ass attitudes. With the uncooperative defiance they take surrounding talks of a new arena, coupled with the fact that they pushed so hard and inevitably suceeded at taking the All-Star games to Vegas, it is painfully obvious they have absolutely no interest in the community of this great and proud city that is Sacramento.

How does the "Las Vegas Kings" sound to you?

Las Vegas will probably never have an NBA team, or at least as long as Stern is Commissioner. Don't worry about that. But I do agree that the Maloofs need to stop playing games and just take a hard line on this.

If they'll leave if an arena doesn't get built, they ought tell the people that! It's the only thing that will get their attention. Most people see no need to get an arena. If it's as clear a choice as arena or no Kings, people can make a decision and we can get on with our lives. If people care enough about the Kings to build an arena, great. If not, the Kings can leave, fair and square.

Word to your mother. I like the Kings a lot, but I'd much rather be a baseball town than a basketball town. Cold you imagine having the World Series in Sactown!!??

No because I hate baseball, especially major league baseball. It's season is way too long (like 5 months too long). Besides baseball unlike football or basketball is not a sport that thrives in smaller markets, which Sacramento is.

I tolerate Triple A. I don't think this city is ready for both basekball and baseball, and I hope the fans are smart enough to know we need to take care of the team we have first.

That is if the MaGoofs, quit playing games and get serious about letting us know what they want and what their "fair share" translates to.

^ In what way do you feel Sac is not ready for more major sports? Because of its size? Same size as Kansas City -- Cleveland and Denver aren't much bigger. We are bigger than Milwaukee and New Orleans, Jacksonville and Indianapolis. What's more, we have the 15th largest media market in the nation. We make more money than most of the aforementioned cities.

I didn't say we weren't ready for "more major sports". I said major league baseball is not a good fit for Sacramento. Sacramento (is actually the 19th largest media market, not the 15th). We have the population (2 million in the metro and closer to 3 million within an hours drive of the capitol) We also have the largest media market in the nation without either football or baseball. But baseball just doesn't seem to do well in smaller markets. Sacramento has a small corporate base, and while we can boast about large operations for Intel, NEC and a few other back office operations, (they don't translate into corporate support). Football is much easier for a smaller market to support because of the revenue sharing agreements in the NFL and the fact that much of the money is made based on your (media market size, at least locally for cable contract deals). Also you only have to sell out a stadium a few times each year. Something which would be no problem here.

Besides look how hard it is to build and Arena in this city. Do you honestly think they would ever build a baseball Park that would cost closer to 3/4 of a billion dollars???


Also if this city is foolish enough to let a team the caliber of the Kings leave, then we sure as heck don't deserve another team until we can figure out whether or not we're willing to support the team with first class facilities. (just my thoughts)

I agree. I also think that Major League Baseball seems to be successful in large blue-collar markets, like most of the cities mentioned above. Sacramento has some blue-collar families but it's not like some of those great-lake-area cities that are built on industry. Then again, I'm not an expert in demographics but I really have no desire to see MLB in Sac. The rivercats are perfect for Sacramento and it's more of my speed.

That's what I was wanting to hear. I just wanted to see if you were thinking the same way. No fortune 100 -- wait, no fortune 500 companies BASED here. I believe Sac has the fan base to sell ou the games but no corporate sponsorships. That's what the city needs to focus on, which it never seems to do. They need to find a way to woo more large corporations who are considering moving their headquarters to set up shop here. I know it's a tall order, but it kills us.

You are correct, I didnt have time last night to double-check my facts -- but still '19' is nothing to sneeze about.

You guys are right about our lack of an F500 company. On the other hand, I don't think we need to focus on wooing an F500 here (they don't move usually). We need to have a business climate where an F500 can be born and grow--something like SureWest. "Young F500s" look for things like talent base, favorable tax stucture, cost/cost of living, resources, etc. Sac is lacking in some of those areas.

Well I think you guys make a good point. Petco (not a f500) and Qualcomm Inc., are both located in San Diego -hence the name of their ballpark and football stadium. But Los Angeles has many f500 and can’t get a NFL team -why?

It’s an interesting point about were our city’s focus should be. We have had our identify so wrapped up in state government that we seemed to have neglected everything else including finance. We need balance. How could the city woo more large corporations? And at what price?

Back in the 1990’s, when Joe Serna was mayor, the City of Sacramento made the decision to actively pursue Packard Bell. Sacramento provided many incentives (money/tax breaks) to them. Sacramento did succeeded it getting the electronics company here by providing the political clout and financial means to land the deal and pushing the Army to get the property (old Sacramento Army Depot) cleaned-up and ready to be reused. But Packard Bell’s fortunes turned, and in 1999, they shut down their Sacramento operation. Meanwhile, Sacramentians had paid $132 million for “necessary improvements”, and loaned Packard Bell $26 million to lure the company. How badly do we need a major sports team? Is it worth it?

We have lower costs than the Bay Area or Los Angeles and that means a lot. But we are in competition with out-of-state cities. The state could do more but for obvious reasons legislators try to keep the companies in their constituent’s hometown. It seems they’d rather lose it to an out-of-state competitor than an in-state one.

Image is not everything but it’s not nothing. The ones making the decisions do not see us as a potential HQ city. We have a good chance of wooing a fortune 500 company from the Bay Area and LA. if we work at up-marketing our city. In the late 1990’s I saw all these ads in Bay Area biz mag/papers from out-of-state cities trying to woo companies. Never did I see ad from Sacramento. I don’t know how effective those ad were but since Sacramento is a lot closer I can image we would have just as good of chance if not better.

One more thought is that we just don’t provide the amenities that the management and CEO’s want in a city. We must really work on increasing the arts, education, etc.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Article on the casino's providing loan funding for the arena...could this one actaully have legs?

Riches turn area tribes into players
By Mary Lynne Vellinga -- Bee Staff Writer

Paula Lorenzo considers herself a big-time Kings fan, and she has the picture to prove it.

During a Kings game three years ago, she seized Bobby Jackson's head and kissed it after he fell back into her second-row seat. A photographer captured the moment, and the Kings reprinted the picture on tickets for an entire season. (haha, that was a great moment!)

Like many sports enthusiasts, Lorenzo worries that the Kings will leave town if the team doesn't get a new arena. Unlike most fans, however, she is in a position to do something about it.

Click to read the rest..
http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/s...14600336c.html

^^ I second that. But its almost like it all has to happen at once. Its almost like you have to have one to have the other. Obviously corporate moneys translates to tax revenues, which translates to more art & entertainment and all the other "amenities". Without those revenues you don't have the amenities. Without the amenities you dont have large corporations setting up shop here creating revenue. The easy answer is to start out slowly, market what you have, and work your way up. That is, after all, what getting the RiverCats was suppose to do. The late Mayor Serna wanted nothing less than major league here, if you recall.

Anywho, I think we agree, more could be done to market our city better -- to lure more of Corporate America to our doorsteps, to lure more amenities (like pro baseball or football perhaps?). Too bad about the Packard Bell demise. It was a step in the right direction. Then there was our own start-up "Foundation Health" and the NIMBY's of Gold River basically booted them out. The Money Store looked promising -- but no, not here, not Sacramento. It had to tank like everything else -- its like we're cursed or something.

Anyway, it just frustrates me.

I can agree with most of what you saying GrowinUp. I'm a big believer in investing in our entertainment and cultural amenities.

I would have no prolbem with football, but as I said I don't see baseball as being a logical fit for sacramento. I also (as I've stated before) want to see a fisrt class theater/performing arts center, an expanded Crocker Art Museum (which looks to be on hold indefinitely unless I'm mistaken), I want to see the intermodel station become reality. I am so sick of Sacramento talking ans talking about what it wants to become and never putting it's money where it's mouth is. I suspect that's why we don't see much corporate clout. This isn't a "can do city" so to speak. It's the Nimby capital of the U.S. everyone has been content with their suburban tract homes in Elk Grove and Roseville and content with the idea that a night out at the movies is their idea of culture.

It's pitiful when cities smaller than Sacramento are able to accomplish much more than we are capable of ever dreaming of.

Kansas City
Indianapolis
Charlottte

These cities build their culural an entertainment faiclities and are capable of luring coroporations.

Sacramento meanwhile talks about it.

I am encouraged about all of the private sector highrise residential growth for downtown. Maybe with the influx of people seeking a more cosmopolitan style of living Sacramento will finally wake up and pull it's head out of it's butt and take it's place as the center of a major metropolitan area.

Here's a prime example of marketing the city. Sacramento chased the Stem Cell HQ's with free rent for a downtown office building. Why chase (what is basically a state agency) that doesn't really amount to squat?? Why didn't the city take that donated office space in One Capitol Mall, and offer it to a company willing to locate their corproate headquarters here?

BTW on the subject of our local Tribes becoming involved in a solution, I think that's absolutely wonderful. This is the local financial clout in our area as the article alludes to. We may not have any large corporate HQs here. But we do have a number of local tribes swimming in $$$. If they can come up with a solution and the MaGoofs are serious absout making this they're home, then hopefully a deal can get done. But I still think the arena belongs DT. Look at other cities that have built their arenas downtown as opposed to those who have bolted for the suburbs.

Would we prefer this arena to be more like Conseco Filedhouse or the SBC?


Conseco is one of the best (if not the best) basketball arenas in the league and it's a downtown arena that works well.

(Of course i think the issue of a downtown arena here is dead and buried). We're going to be lucky to get the arena built in Natomas.

The city tried that with Lot A awhile back. They offered the entire parcel for $1 to any corporation that was willing to move their corporate headquarters there. There were no takers. If that doesn't tell us something about whether or not we'll ever see a large corporate presence here, I don't know what will.

That's pitiful.


(and hilarious)

:haha:

^ and depressing, too. :(

The only way for Sacramento to change that is to change the way of thinking for our local elected leaders. This isn't a small town anymore and unfortunately our coucil and board of supervisors continue to act as if it still is. (the change in attitude for residential highrises withstanding)


If I were mayor.............:D


I would work to have more bridges constructed across the Sacramento River, so as to connect what will become an obvious expansion of downtown Sacramento.


I would invest in cultural amenities (to do that the Mayor needs to sell the idea of a hotel tax or some other tax to invest in our amenities which will help to lure more jobs etc........)

a) Performing arts center
b) an arena in the Rail Yards
c) Invest in an immediate expansion of the Riverfront Promenade.

I would actively go courting existing companies and find out what it would take (tax break incentives etc) to lure them to Sacramento. Proximity to the Capitol might illicit State help.


Mayor Fargo is no leader.

^ also, a nationally aired commercial ad, like San Diego has. I've never even heard of Kissiminee-St Cloud before -- now everyone has. Think about it. They use to have this neat little short film that you could buy at the Visitors Center in Old Town, exemplifying Sacramento. I remember picking it up and saying to them -- "Hey, why dont you distribute these videos to all the gift stores in Old Town, instead of hiding them here in this basement you call a Visitors Center?" They looked at me with a puzzled look, as if to say, "Gee, how come WE didn't think of that?" I dont think it ever happened though!

Anybody watching the Kings get their asses handed to them by the Hornets? :help:
85-60 with 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter. Way to represent guys!
Well, at least their defense ain't so bad. ;)

^ Yeah but they didn't fly out until today and got into there right before the game. That is why the Kings were pissed off yesterday, but hey, just one game.

^
"Just one game"

Yep, 81 more to lose - just kidding.

Well... I don't think they were expected to win today because of their plane troubles, but by 26 points?? :rolleyes:

I am listening to Grant Napier and the other guys on KHTK. They are saying the team (especially Mike Bibby) is just not very fast, and they may have trouble against quick players.
Wonderful! As long as the Kings do not play any team with athletic players, they should do fine.;)

Whatever, on to the next game.

It seems year after year, they struggle against atheltic teams....

Game 2: A loss 98-89

Well, at least they did not lose by 26 points.

They need to stop playing athletic teams. Oh wait, sports teams are all athletic - except for the Kings.

They were expected to lose the first three games. So looks like probably an 0-3 start.

I see the Kings winning between 40 - 45 games this season, but they need to get started.