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-   -   Winnipeg | Manitoba Liquor & Lotteries Head Office | Cancelled (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=219018)

Cyro Sep 29, 2015 8:10 PM

Winnipeg | Manitoba Liquor & Lotteries Head Office | Cancelled
 
Winnipeg | 233 Kennedy Street

Renovation and addition to Winnipeg's 15 Floor Medical Arts Building, Parkade and surface lot to amalgamate Manitoba's Liquor Control Board and Manitoba Lottery Corporations offices.

- Purchase of building, parkade and surface lot. $ 7.9 Million
- Est: Renovation/Addition Costs: $ 66 Million
- 5 floor addition on surface lot ( aprx: 80 K sq. ft.)
- Expansion to floors 1-5
- Expansion adds 78,385 sq. ft. over five floors
- Main floor is commercial space and outdoor courtyard
- Floors 2-5 for home of Liquor & Lotteries employees
- Expansion to be built on surface parking lot
Combined new and old building equals 212,000 sq. ft.
- Parkade improvements part of redevelopment plans
- Floors 6-15 to remain as is for existing tenants.
- Architects: Prairie Architects Inc

More information:

http://www.mbll.ca/sites/mbll_corpor...CT-SHEET_0.pdf

http://www.mbll.ca/node/3096

http://www.mbll.ca/sites/mbll_corpor...-Sheet-rev.pdf

Renders:

http://www.mbll.ca/sites/mbll_corpor...L-New-HO-1.png
http://www.mbll.ca/sites/mbll_corpor...L-New-HO-2.png
http://www.mbll.ca/sites/mbll_corpor...L-New-HO-5.png
http://www.mbll.ca/sites/mbll_corpor...L-New-HO-3.png
http://www.mbll.ca/sites/mbll_corpor...L-New-HO-4.png
http://www.mbll.ca/

h0twired Sep 29, 2015 8:23 PM

Why is this being built downtown? This looks like something that should be built on Waverley or Taylor.

Seriously? A SURFACE parking lot?! REALLY?!

I feel sorry for the architect who has their name on this terrible design.

bryanscott Sep 29, 2015 8:25 PM

http://sadtrombone.com/?autoplay=true

Cyro Sep 29, 2015 8:25 PM

For those that would like a 1 stop spot for this project..

era 1979..Medical Arts Bldg...

http://www.emporis.com/images/show/2...est-corner.jpg
emporis.com

(why do they always shoot the messenger...)

lilwayne Sep 29, 2015 8:27 PM

I like it


more glass, more green space,, one less ugly surface lot... that corner at kennedy and graham was such a contrast to the other parts of graham... that whole street is going to be night and day once true north square and fortress go up hopefully... I don't see whats wrong with it... it looks decent.

Cyro Sep 29, 2015 8:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryanscott (Post 7181356)

Thanks for the link Bryan..I was just browsing your site and about to use an image...great content:)

lilwayne Sep 29, 2015 8:30 PM

so what if it has mini 8 car surface lot.... it still looks decent... that's probably for convience sometimes ppl need to go quickly in and out for deliveries or drop-offs and having such lots like that are pretty usefull

Biff Sep 29, 2015 8:42 PM

I love the project, the amount of people it will bring to Graham and Kennedy and the fact that it will kill another surface parking lot. The design is still in it's early stage so my hope it that it will be improved. The parts that I dislike are the park - this is a clone of the Hydro Park less than a block away and that hideous 10 spot surface lot off Graham HAS TO GO.

I also believe that the True North Project two blocks down will still proceed and Graham will be even better.

Hard to believe MBLL bought a 16 storey building and surface lot for $7.5 million and Fortress paid $7 million for a gravel lot for SkyCity.......ouch.

Cyro Sep 29, 2015 9:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff (Post 7181380)
I love the project, the amount of people it will bring to Graham and Kennedy and the fact that it will kill another surface parking lot. The design is still in it's early stage so my hope it that it will be improved. The parts that I dislike are the park - this is a clone of the Hydro Park less than a block away and that hideous 10 spot surface lot off Graham HAS TO GO.

I also believe that the True North Project two blocks down will still proceed and Graham will be even better.

Hard to believe MBLL bought a 16 storey building and surface lot for $7.5 million and Fortress paid $7 million for a gravel lot for SkyCity.......ouch.

It's not as evil a project as some believe ..some changes always occur..although mbll listed the purchase at 7.9 and the building at 15 Floors..but the minor details are not worth the effort to quibble about? I think this is more of a political decision with some and the decision the provincial government chose?

cllew Sep 29, 2015 9:02 PM

[QUOTE=Biff;7181380]I love the project, the amount of people it will bring to Graham and Kennedy and the fact that it will kill another surface parking lot. The design is still in it's early stage so my hope it that it will be improved. The parts that I dislike are the park - this is a clone of the Hydro Park less than a block away and that hideous 10 spot surface lot off Graham HAS TO GO.

I also believe that the True North Project two blocks down will still proceed and Graham will be even better.

Hard to believe MBLL bought a 16 storey building and surface lot for $7.5 million and Fortress paid $7 million for a gravel lot for SkyCity.......ouch.[/QUOTE

i don't know if it has been sold since 2008 but at that time the Winnpeg Free Press reported that Huntingdon REIT bought the building in 2006 for $14,342,162 and had a mortgage for $9,660,000

pmuhar Sep 29, 2015 9:26 PM

How the hell did they get the M.A building for ~$7 mill?

Simplicity Sep 29, 2015 9:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biff (Post 7181380)

hard to believe mbll bought a 16 storey building and surface lot for $7.5 million and fortress paid $7 million for a gravel lot for skycity.......ouch.

$9.5mm

biguc Sep 29, 2015 9:30 PM

More proof that CentreVenture is stupid.

but yeah, that surface lot has to go. I could do without the entire plaza.

esquire Sep 29, 2015 10:42 PM

Late to the party here, I see I'm having the same reaction you all did. I think I threw up in my mouth a little when I saw that. Yikes.

cllew Sep 29, 2015 10:43 PM

Would the fact that Huntingdon REIT is selling the building as opposed to everybody else wanted to lease MLLC the space make the difference.

Huntingdon ended up selling City Place to MPI to try and reduce their debit load so I wonder if this transaction is similar?

Riverman Sep 29, 2015 11:12 PM

I think it is an indication that downtown is being turned into a government ghetto and that all private investment is quite willing to get out even if it means losing millions.

Simplicity Sep 29, 2015 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmuhar (Post 7181439)
How the hell did they get the M.A building for ~$7 mill?

Huge vacancy and little hope.

Cyro Sep 29, 2015 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplicity (Post 7181534)
Huge vacancy and little hope.

40-50% vacancy rate, accurate assessment.

Let's drill down for a moment and view the property that sold for close to $8M


https://www.google.com/maps/@49.8902.../data=!3m1!1e3

??? What do those in the development,architectural and city planning fields see that bothers them or would give them concern about the current project.
______

Edited OP for inaccuracies..

Simplicity Sep 30, 2015 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyro (Post 7181555)
40-50% vacancy rate, accurate assessment.

Let's drill down for a moment and view the property that sold for close to $8M


https://www.google.com/maps/@49.8902.../data=!3m1!1e3

??? What do those in the development,architectural and city planning fields see that bothers them or would give them concern about the current project.
______

Edited OP for inaccuracies..

Leaving aside the design and surface parking elements, I actually think this is about the best thing MBLL could have done. And that's not an absolute statement; there's no reason whatsoever the work that gets done at MBLL requires a ~$330/sq ft renovation/new build so a few governmental paper-pushers can luxuriate in the sort of opulence generally reserved for lawyers and hedge-funders. But I digress.

To my mind - and given the situation - they approached this the right way. They'll have an asset at a discount where hopefully their presence can bump the rents, and they'll be able to capitalize those rents over time which is something they'd otherwise not be able to do even as a long-term tenant (which they are). To me, it's better than paying $32 or $33 in annual rent (including additional rent) to somebody who's going to ask for a ton of subsidy anyway (ahem, Chipman).

The only thing I might say - and this is presumptuous - is that the Province is going to be forced to dump money into the Bay building at some point anyway. This could have been an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone even though we all know they didn't do that because they wouldn't be able to advertise the cost savings due to the move. Eh, I can live with it. BUT, don't be fooled. $23MM over 20 years is absolutely not $23MM. Using a 4% discount rate, it's closer to about $10MM and that's the number they should be using.

Does this deal save them $10MM today? I don't know.

1ajs Sep 30, 2015 2:34 AM

interesting i gues all the developers being mad about true north getting all the deeds blew up in everyones faces??


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